Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, is it could happen here and it's just
Speaker 1: James today because today I'm doing a little interview on
Speaker 1: the situation for Hinga people. If you're not familiar with
Speaker 1: the Hinda genocide, we're not going to cover that in depth,
Speaker 1: but we will give a little bit of an overview.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking to onkyr Mo, who is Rehinga himself
Speaker 1: and who works with the National Unity Government and advising
Speaker 1: them about Hina people's human rights. I think the news
Speaker 1: cycle hasn't really covered many hinder issues since the Rhinea genocide.
Speaker 1: The world's kind of moved on from caring about them,
Speaker 1: but they're still in a very difficult situation, and we
Speaker 1: want to update you on issues that continue to face
Speaker 1: the Rehinga people. I hope you enjoyed the interview. So
Speaker 1: today I'm joined by on Kyomo, who's an advisor to
Speaker 1: the National Unity Government of Myanma, which people will hopefully
Speaker 1: be familiar with. If not, he can explain a little
Speaker 1: bit of what that is. He's an advisor to the
Speaker 1: Ministry of Human Rights and also a hing Your human
Speaker 1: rights activists himself, and so Pai, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining me, Thank you for having me yeah. So
Speaker 1: what I'd love to do today is I think if
Speaker 1: our listeners have listened to our previous coverage what's happening
Speaker 1: in Myama or Burma, depending on which one you prefer,
Speaker 1: they will know a lot about the coup, and they
Speaker 1: will know a lot about the things that happens INSCU
Speaker 1: right the PDFs and the ethnic resistance organizations. But I
Speaker 1: think they might not be as familiar with the situation
Speaker 1: that Reiner people have been in for a long time
Speaker 1: and continue to be in. It's a different part of
Speaker 1: the the country to we were we were in um Maso,
Speaker 1: which is on the other side. That's something we've covered
Speaker 1: a lot less. So perhaps you could begin by explaining,
Speaker 1: like why there are so many Hindia refugees who have left. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the history of the persecution of Ranger people is very long,
Speaker 1: but if you could give us sort of a potted
Speaker 1: history of the persecution of Rheinga people by various governments
Speaker 1: in Myanmar and and what has led to this massive
Speaker 1: exodus and this this big refugee population for Hinda people, now,
Speaker 1: that would be great to start with. Great, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me in. The history is very long,
Speaker 1: but I will be concrete and and and short. The
Speaker 1: Rheinga people has been in Myanmar before Burma even exists,
Speaker 1: before Burma become Burma, and before British came. And their
Speaker 1: significant architect color related infrastructure that exists indicates existence of
Speaker 1: the Ruhengan. There's a lot of literature research and Runga
Speaker 1: people themselves living in generations and generations um there indicates
Speaker 1: that Runga are part of my and Mare and it
Speaker 1: used to be and it will be and runger not
Speaker 1: only the ethnic minority, they are also the religious minority.
Speaker 1: Majority of Premise people are Buddhists and of the second largest,
Speaker 1: followed by the Muslims are Christian, and then the third
Speaker 1: largest or Muslim and Ruhinga are Muslim and and Ruhinga
Speaker 1: are single Muslim ethnic groups and Sink also religious ethnic groups.
Speaker 1: And there has been historical exclusion discriminations sponsored by the
Speaker 1: and sponsored and carried out by the consecutive government of
Speaker 1: Myanmar to target the religious and ethnic minority, to exclude
Speaker 1: from religious, ethnic and social aspects of the society, and
Speaker 1: and it has been politically motivating for many government It
Speaker 1: has always been beneficial in in and bussing the larger
Speaker 1: populations of Myanmar by showing Ruhinga as a threat to
Speaker 1: the country because of their religious differences and to the
Speaker 1: way that we were and we eat are slightly different
Speaker 1: than than purpose because we have our own culture and
Speaker 1: own traditions and own language and and UH and it's
Speaker 1: enreached by by those UH. Thus the first start of execution,
Speaker 1: like executing these discriminatory policies to work to the Rhinga
Speaker 1: has started as as long as um as far as
Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty where the first cool took in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two when first cool took place, and then
Speaker 1: military consecutive military government accelerated that to form to uh
Speaker 1: A situations where it could be UH defined and fall
Speaker 1: under the category of the crimes against humanity. UH So
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight there is a big operations against
Speaker 1: Rhinga people to deport them and two d thousand people
Speaker 1: has to be flee to to Bangladesh and some of
Speaker 1: them still remain as refugees to pout generations for the
Speaker 1: generations in banglad there's not being able to repatriate it
Speaker 1: to the place where they come from. And followed by
Speaker 1: that the nineteen UH nine two, there was another influx
Speaker 1: of the refugees, and the refugee it's also the quite
Speaker 1: significant larger number of the refugees, and and and not
Speaker 1: everyone could come back. And there is another layer of
Speaker 1: the refugees that remains from the report treating then from
Speaker 1: the biolation, the human rights violations became too throwing as
Speaker 1: business a surial, limiting the child, the number of child
Speaker 1: that you can have, and treating you less than an animals,
Speaker 1: not having the religious right to exercise the way that
Speaker 1: you believe, and restrictions of movement, killing, raping, and it's continued,
Speaker 1: and it has been accelerated in different form and shape
Speaker 1: where it could be it could come to a situation
Speaker 1: it's from from crimes against you, and it is being
Speaker 1: transformed to genocides and and in two thousands seventeen it's
Speaker 1: one to the highest pick of the genocides where a
Speaker 1: million people are being deported by burning and many people
Speaker 1: had a thousand people died, and many thousands women being raped.
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of fatherless a child in
Speaker 1: the camp today being uh big bond by by by
Speaker 1: by the Women's who, victims of the of the reef
Speaker 1: of the Miama military. And today there is a million
Speaker 1: people in Bangladesh and UH with no hope to be
Speaker 1: reportuated soon to the place of origin with safety and dignity.
Speaker 1: And of course the political landscape in Myanma has shifted. UH.
Speaker 1: It used to be in the democratic transition from two
Speaker 1: thousands ten to twenty with two consecutive different government. And
Speaker 1: the democratically elected government has been overthrown by by a
Speaker 1: temkup by the military who had ruled the country for
Speaker 1: for for many decades. And and and of course the
Speaker 1: democratically elected government which I advise to UH is being
Speaker 1: Some of the member of the government are being arrested,
Speaker 1: and some are in the in the ethnic territorial control,
Speaker 1: and and some are in exile, and and and so
Speaker 1: the country. So the reactions of the fifty million people
Speaker 1: has been different because there has been several co Indian
Speaker 1: mara and this was the the the political calculations of
Speaker 1: the military leaders to attempt the coup was wrong that
Speaker 1: they did not expect the resistance of the people. And
Speaker 1: then of course the the the young generation Z people
Speaker 1: came in to to resist. Uitially, they claimed to be
Speaker 1: peacefully protesting to hand over the power back to the
Speaker 1: to the to the democratically elected people. But as a
Speaker 1: result they were being brutally cracked on and killed, arrested.
Speaker 1: And then and then the young people started to understand
Speaker 1: that we need to speak the language that they understand.
Speaker 1: They understand, so they speak that language is grabbing a
Speaker 1: gun and and and and promming the military. So followed
Speaker 1: by that National Unity Government has been fromed by with
Speaker 1: the elected members of the of the of the Parliament
Speaker 1: worth lower horna opera host. So the National Unity Government
Speaker 1: today is the most the legitimate government of the NMAR
Speaker 1: and having also some territorial control. Of course, the majority
Speaker 1: of the government in infrastructure are being being captured illegally
Speaker 1: by the military untain. Yeah, that's and it's interesting that
Speaker 1: people aren't familiar with the sort of ethnic makeup of
Speaker 1: previous governments and then the National Unity Government. From what
Speaker 1: I understand, it's not as much dominated by the majority
Speaker 1: ethnic Berman people in the International Unity Government as it
Speaker 1: was before even under the n LG. Right, even under
Speaker 1: sort of the most most democratic that there has been
Speaker 1: in the MMA for some time, like there was still
Speaker 1: a domination by by one ethnicity. Right that the National
Speaker 1: Unity Government is more ethnically diverse, is that right? Correct?
Speaker 1: But still there's are a lot of rooms for improvement.
Speaker 1: Particularly Rhea people has always been part of Myanmar and
Speaker 1: politically excluded. And despite a million people being pushed out
Speaker 1: to the Bangladesh through a genocidal attempt, the remaining populations
Speaker 1: in Myanmar is six people politically represented, both sides of
Speaker 1: populations under continued genocidal attempts of the Miama military. Internationally,
Speaker 1: United Government did not include politically meaningfully the Rhinga populations
Speaker 1: still now and they appointed me as an adviser. But
Speaker 1: a politically representable size of populations need to be represented,
Speaker 1: not by functions alone. It's need to be fund both
Speaker 1: all represented by functions and number equally to to UH,
Speaker 1: to other ethnic And we're in the context of identity
Speaker 1: politics in Myanmar and your political rights and responsibilities to
Speaker 1: what to the nations are associated that the very identity
Speaker 1: that you were so time to time. There is a
Speaker 1: big questions like you know, we're moving forward to the
Speaker 1: part of democracy to make the kind too, back to
Speaker 1: the track of democracy. But the very principle of democracy
Speaker 1: is majority rules and and respect the minorities right right,
Speaker 1: And still the Runga are being despite the international pressure,
Speaker 1: particularly the United States and it's allies to have inclusive
Speaker 1: democracy and Ruhinga people are not yet meaningful included in
Speaker 1: the government. Yeah, and I think that's something we've spoken
Speaker 1: about a lot with with Karen and Karni people who
Speaker 1: we've spoken to about the sort of the need for
Speaker 1: a more inclusive structure, whether that's like a federal democracy
Speaker 1: after obviously after the military hunter has been deposed, or
Speaker 1: certainly something that's more inclusive, and perhaps we can talk
Speaker 1: about how like it's very interesting to me when I
Speaker 1: talk to young people generation Z people from MMA, they
Speaker 1: will say that like they wouldn't have even said sometimes
Speaker 1: for a hung yet like ten years ago, that they
Speaker 1: wouldn't have used to turn. They have seen the people
Speaker 1: who we know who we would call Rhinga as Bangladeshi's right,
Speaker 1: because this was the narrative. Can you explain how you've
Speaker 1: explained very well that that's not true, but how that
Speaker 1: narrative was constructed and what it was used to do.
Speaker 1: I think it's once again to exclude through Hingen to
Speaker 1: carry out systematic destructions mentally and physically on the Rhinga
Speaker 1: is also a lot to do with their spreading propaganda,
Speaker 1: misinformations and disinformations through a state let media bost online
Speaker 1: and offline. And so this means these destructions has happened
Speaker 1: with the state sponsortain state pre planned intentional um intentional
Speaker 1: intentional UH way of doing it. And thus the society
Speaker 1: the people has been restricted from moving. And this is
Speaker 1: one of the least developed region where the hunger people living.
Speaker 1: A lot of people from from like other states wouldn't
Speaker 1: be able to travel and go and see what is
Speaker 1: happening really inside there and to people would not be
Speaker 1: able to movets of that to tell their stories. So
Speaker 1: all the narrative that people here is the military and
Speaker 1: the government what the government used to put at that moment,
Speaker 1: So in the in the in the eyes or in
Speaker 1: the perceptions of the people through Rhingas are from Bangladesh
Speaker 1: and they are trying to to take over the country
Speaker 1: and they had a national security threat and that was
Speaker 1: the narrative. So they the reality is being defined by
Speaker 1: the perceptions and calls and misinformations that being given in
Speaker 1: the consistent intentional way to the young people. And of
Speaker 1: course today I think has changed slightly to be seeing
Speaker 1: to what is reality and people showing the sympathy to
Speaker 1: what happened to the Ruhinga, because it's every time something
Speaker 1: happened in me Amre like that, it's consistent to work
Speaker 1: to the Rhinga, the human rights violations, crimes against humanity
Speaker 1: and genocide. And the people fifty million people in Yanmar
Speaker 1: were not either they are seeing neutral or they're extending
Speaker 1: with the military not like too that this should do
Speaker 1: this and this is right to do to kill people
Speaker 1: direct to rape because their national security threat. But what
Speaker 1: had happened to the Rhinga people, perhaps in the not
Speaker 1: the same shape and the same a slerity or valocity
Speaker 1: or momentum or intensity has started to happen after the coup,
Speaker 1: to to the to the Boma people. And then they
Speaker 1: tend to realize what happened to Ringa. What Ringa used
Speaker 1: to tell running the whole village is killing and raping,
Speaker 1: is exactly what what what is happening more or less
Speaker 1: exactly what is happening to us? Than they were right?
Speaker 1: And it's the big teams change and the proper traitors
Speaker 1: remain the same. And would that concept to people come
Speaker 1: to But again I think they still it's very small
Speaker 1: number of the populations, uh compared to the whole populations
Speaker 1: that lives in Yanmar. And in the critic principles there
Speaker 1: is no like you don't tend to say something just
Speaker 1: because that you sympathize, and there there are principles and
Speaker 1: values that you do not compromise in any circumstance. So
Speaker 1: equal right, justice and and inclusivity and like like celebrating
Speaker 1: of the diversity. These things are very core principles of
Speaker 1: of of the democracy that that we are like a
Speaker 1: Suburmese people asking from international community to help. What we're
Speaker 1: preaching for to war to the democracy need to be
Speaker 1: demonstrated at home. First, we need to act up on
Speaker 1: and and so I think the benchmark there's no the
Speaker 1: benchmarks shouldn't be defined to include or exclude someone based
Speaker 1: on the sympathies need to be based on the principles
Speaker 1: and values. Can you explain a little bit about the
Speaker 1: situation that Hinge people who have left me and and
Speaker 1: maybe they're INCOXETERUSA, maybe they're in No man's land, maybe
Speaker 1: they're they're now being moved to an island, right. Can
Speaker 1: can you explain what life is like for those people.
Speaker 1: Of course, the when we can get people flights to Bangladesh,
Speaker 1: it was attempting to survive. Uh like they managed to
Speaker 1: survive and otherwise many died and they could be one
Speaker 1: of those who who died and they survive, meaning that
Speaker 1: these old people are have physical and mental destruction and
Speaker 1: unhealless scars in their physical and mental aspects of the life.
Speaker 1: And and of course a million people in Bangladesh to
Speaker 1: be hosted by the Bangladeshi government bangladeshih people has been
Speaker 1: also very difficult because the resource in the given area
Speaker 1: is very limited and Bangladesh itself is a small country
Speaker 1: with with with limited resource and and we should always
Speaker 1: appreciate Bangladeship people and Bangladeship government to open their arms
Speaker 1: and hurt to to to absorbs and and and a
Speaker 1: Midian people and and and and again. I think the
Speaker 1: problems started in Myanmar and and the solutions need to
Speaker 1: be in me and Mare and and the people need
Speaker 1: to be going with say dignified h way to the
Speaker 1: place of origin. And and of course Bangladesh. It has
Speaker 1: been five years plus now that the people like the
Speaker 1: largest influx took place in Sucer and seventeen uh, and
Speaker 1: they were repatriation septem being made and and the when
Speaker 1: people fled from Myanmar jump into the Nap River and
Speaker 1: Bay of Bengal into those seventeen because the land was
Speaker 1: more dangerous than the sea. Situations remained very same or
Speaker 1: even worse than that now in in in Mire Mar
Speaker 1: to be going back so you you escape from a
Speaker 1: grape that you have buried, uh to be killed and
Speaker 1: being pushed to go back to to to me and
Speaker 1: Mark is as being sent him back to the to
Speaker 1: the grape that you escape from from from dying uh.
Speaker 1: So the situation doesn't favor for a safe, dignified, voluntary
Speaker 1: return for the for the Reinga that's Bangladeshi authorities are
Speaker 1: trying to find different innovated modality in different ways how
Speaker 1: to how to create sustainable situations for the including relocations
Speaker 1: of the of the certain number of the of the
Speaker 1: of the Inga populations because the the the the camps
Speaker 1: are very congested and the hygiene level in the camp
Speaker 1: are very low and there are a lot of also
Speaker 1: the the the crow on like you know, if a
Speaker 1: million people in a small scale place like that's are
Speaker 1: being being closed, anything could happen anytime, you know. So
Speaker 1: the the the idea was too by the Bangladeshi government,
Speaker 1: which doesn't fall into into the principle of international way
Speaker 1: of doing things, and and relocating some of these refugees
Speaker 1: to an island that has its a new islands. No
Speaker 1: human being has been a lived there, and the island
Speaker 1: has been technically from various technical assessment has identified it's
Speaker 1: not livable by human being yet and because there are
Speaker 1: a lot of like cyclones and and and flats and
Speaker 1: things like that, and it's very far away from millions
Speaker 1: of Bangladesh and and it yeah, so there is risk
Speaker 1: from UH from various perspectives to be able. But despite this,
Speaker 1: Bangladeshi government has built, sheltered this and relocated UH some
Speaker 1: numbers of Ruhinga, and some of them went by their
Speaker 1: own will, seeing that it might be a different and
Speaker 1: and some are being maybe perhaps post and and of
Speaker 1: course there are a certain number of like around close
Speaker 1: to UH five to six thousand people in no man's
Speaker 1: land when Bangladesh at the beginning did not open its
Speaker 1: border when Rhinga were feleeing, and so this Norman land
Speaker 1: we're being occupied by the nearby abilities because Bangladesh wouldn't
Speaker 1: open the gate for them and they were stuck in
Speaker 1: in there. So they have it happened to be stuck
Speaker 1: there since the last five years. Uh and the remaining
Speaker 1: gro lives in in in in coxwas a districts of
Speaker 1: Bangladesh in different parts of this this districts. So that's
Speaker 1: the situation. Yeah, that's very well said, and it's some
Speaker 1: people have taken on recently leaving these camps in Bangladesh.
Speaker 1: They've taken on this very risky boat journey, right. I
Speaker 1: think they're going to places like Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, Indonesia,
Speaker 1: And can you explain a little bit about like how
Speaker 1: prevalent that is and of course how incredibly like high
Speaker 1: RISCU it is for people to take that journey. Sure,
Speaker 1: the the situations in the camp is not much different
Speaker 1: than the life that they used to live in in
Speaker 1: Indian mar Despite that, the level of level of human
Speaker 1: rights politions and the treatment that they're having may not
Speaker 1: be the same. But Bangladesh is not a signature to
Speaker 1: refugee conventions and it's not legally obliged to be to
Speaker 1: be following all international norms and protocols to be to
Speaker 1: be hosting the the the the the refugees. But despite
Speaker 1: they have demonstrated the humanity UH and demonstrated the moral
Speaker 1: obligations towards the humanity to to host the million people
Speaker 1: and the then the a million people. Some of them
Speaker 1: has been from V eight and some of them are
Speaker 1: from nine, some of them are from two seventeen. Has
Speaker 1: a very dark future. They are closed in this fence
Speaker 1: camp and the movements are restricted. Access to informations are
Speaker 1: not given like the interne Access to informations are are
Speaker 1: like internet service and things like that has been denied.
Speaker 1: Access to livelihoods are denied and they're not able to
Speaker 1: legally work and solely rely onto to the International Humanity
Speaker 1: and assistem. Access to education has been denied. So the
Speaker 1: young people who are growing in this camp does not
Speaker 1: see a future they will be able to go back
Speaker 1: to me and Mark or if they live here. As
Speaker 1: if you're living a debt, like you know, you don't
Speaker 1: have any any any way forwards seeing a bright fisher
Speaker 1: So there is there is the only they don't have
Speaker 1: the best alternative to be trying to be exploring different
Speaker 1: parts and the only part it's happened to be is
Speaker 1: being created in the past, uh in the past by
Speaker 1: some rhingas taking these boats and making to Malaysia where
Speaker 1: they could do some domestic works and get a refugee
Speaker 1: status and maybe able to work, and and some you're
Speaker 1: lucky enough to be resettled in the third country. A
Speaker 1: small number maybe less than two, less than two or
Speaker 1: three percent of the total total ruinga reladyershire. So the
Speaker 1: journey is very risky. The the the the the boats
Speaker 1: that they're taking, the first the c is very rough
Speaker 1: that they take, and their the infrastructure, what infrastructure that
Speaker 1: they're taking are not uh bill like, they not built
Speaker 1: in a way to be coping with this rough sea
Speaker 1: and rough rough weathers and climates. So many of these
Speaker 1: younger people who make this, less than fifty percent of
Speaker 1: them may make it to the to the destinations. Either
Speaker 1: they die on the sea, or they are being arrested
Speaker 1: by different navies and and and or they're they're being
Speaker 1: jailed by by Mini and mar junta. And in two
Speaker 1: thousand twenty two alone, three thousand, five hundred, more than
Speaker 1: three thousand, five hundred people including children as young as
Speaker 1: two years old, jailed to five years for trying to
Speaker 1: attempt to to go to Malaysia. So this is this
Speaker 1: is what it is happening. So the the life is
Speaker 1: meaningless there. And of course taking this journeymane that you're
Speaker 1: tossing a coin whether you get a tail or you
Speaker 1: get you get head or you got tails, you know,
Speaker 1: and and and so it's like betting your life whether
Speaker 1: if you make it, you're you're life to somewhat level meaningfully,
Speaker 1: if you don't make it your life and it is
Speaker 1: more or less the same that you will live in
Speaker 1: there in there. So that's why these are the push factors,
Speaker 1: and of course they are full factors reunifications. If a
Speaker 1: son has made UH three years ago, five years ago
Speaker 1: to to Malaysia and working in the constructions or or
Speaker 1: or or or or or gardening like levers and and
Speaker 1: you have a remaining family in the camp and you
Speaker 1: don't want to see your family in that situation, and
Speaker 1: you're want to bring your family kids or children's or
Speaker 1: wife and you do that. And lastly, also they are
Speaker 1: growing youth in Malaysia who are who want to marry
Speaker 1: the UA and maintain the culture and language and things
Speaker 1: like that, so they want to have rights bringing from
Speaker 1: the refugi camp and and so they're they're different, uh
Speaker 1: push factor, pull factor as well from from Malaysia, but
Speaker 1: the prime primary factor is the push factor in Indian
Speaker 1: martin in Bangladesh, right, Yeah, and fat reason for people
Speaker 1: to want so yeah, some futures and some chance to
Speaker 1: realize their own life and that goes. So can you
Speaker 1: explain people will probably have seen like I think we're
Speaker 1: recording this on Thursday, UM, which is the date nineteen
Speaker 1: and people would have seen the last couple of days
Speaker 1: maybe videos of fires in No man's land, and they
Speaker 1: will probably have seen like some acronyms, which are a
Speaker 1: lot of acronyms when when you're reading about me m
Speaker 1: I can be very confusing. So could you explain a
Speaker 1: little bit about who these two groups that we've seen, right,
Speaker 1: the A R S A and the R s O,
Speaker 1: who they are and what they what they represent and
Speaker 1: perhaps why these two groups who are nominally Hingia are
Speaker 1: fighting each other. So the in the context of ME
Speaker 1: and MA politics, the ethnic people UH has been fighting
Speaker 1: for decades and and and decades UH with ME and
Speaker 1: Mama lestry and Bama supremacy. Like for larger majority supremacy
Speaker 1: UH at the beginning, they were attempt during the time
Speaker 1: of independency through reconciliations and dial of meaning like without arms.
Speaker 1: But the language again being understood by the by the
Speaker 1: Myanmar larger majority is the language that they speak as well.
Speaker 1: So then ethnic people started to grab the arms and
Speaker 1: resist control their territory to UH to attempted to control
Speaker 1: their territory in order to get the equal right and
Speaker 1: decide for their own future, be part of the decisions
Speaker 1: that collectively impact their nations and and basically equal right,
Speaker 1: justice and and and those those things. That's what ethnic
Speaker 1: people are are fighting for and giving their lives and livelihoods. UH.
Speaker 1: It's nothing less than that are nothing more than that's
Speaker 1: very simple. We want to live with dignity freely equally
Speaker 1: with anyone else. And and so many ethnic revolutionary organizations
Speaker 1: forms came came up in different part of Myanmar representing
Speaker 1: different ethnic and Ruhenga also used to be one of
Speaker 1: those back in nineteen fifty UH. After nineteen forty eight
Speaker 1: dependent and nineteen fifty two, Ruheinga is the first one
Speaker 1: to drop the gun in a change of the peace
Speaker 1: with the government saying that we are peace loving people
Speaker 1: and as long as you give us what what what
Speaker 1: our identity and and and we're able to end, we are.
Speaker 1: So then there's a certain period of time that the
Speaker 1: Ruhenga people did not have an arm oppositions group because
Speaker 1: I am someone who believe in non violent movement, but
Speaker 1: in a context like myrmar Again, non violence movement wouldn't
Speaker 1: go anywhere if it's worked seventy years. Uh wouldn't have
Speaker 1: the longest singular war in the world more than seventy years, right,
Speaker 1: So we need to be practical and seeing the reality
Speaker 1: like that. So then then nineteen seventy eight, again these
Speaker 1: things happened. And then and the Ruhinga thinks, okay, then
Speaker 1: what we have been promised and what we have were
Speaker 1: we are being told to be promised to be given
Speaker 1: is not given. So we have to grab the gun
Speaker 1: again and and form do as others are doing in
Speaker 1: order to to uh. So, the Rhinga Solidarity Organization has
Speaker 1: been formed and it has been one of the popular organizations,
Speaker 1: getting a lot of popularity from the Rhinga community. And
Speaker 1: then there were issues within the institution that has been growing.
Speaker 1: Of course, uh they were not able to maintain uh
Speaker 1: the the institutional growth and institutional resource managements and then
Speaker 1: the institution collapse and as well as it has to
Speaker 1: do something with that, like you don't have a territory
Speaker 1: like other other other arm oppositions group will will be
Speaker 1: in stations in me and mark where Unga, we're stations
Speaker 1: in Bangladesh and Bangladesh government we're not really supporting enough
Speaker 1: for them to survive with with with the where to
Speaker 1: enhance its military capability and of course there are several
Speaker 1: other other other things and and so then it's disappeared
Speaker 1: in between and then and two thousand fourteen, Uh this guy,
Speaker 1: a guy called um this the guy who is leading
Speaker 1: currently the the the are scar Conds Salvation's Army, who
Speaker 1: was born in Pakistan and grew up in Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: His parents, he claimed his parents is Rhingen. Of course
Speaker 1: uh he speak the rhing language. That's mean it's indicated
Speaker 1: that he uh he's and came to to our kind
Speaker 1: of state to mobilize people saying that you needed to
Speaker 1: grab the gun. And this is what then people across
Speaker 1: who have critical thinking skills and did not believe into
Speaker 1: things because it's need to be from and within. And
Speaker 1: someone who does not understand how many and more politics
Speaker 1: look like cannot lead revolutions because revolutionary has to do
Speaker 1: a lot with the with the politics political landscape as
Speaker 1: well in the country. And and uh but however, there's
Speaker 1: a certain number of people who believe in it, in
Speaker 1: follow very small number and uh and inga didn't want
Speaker 1: to again fight or or entry into violence, and they
Speaker 1: just want to live peacefully and and that uh and
Speaker 1: they are resilient to to the to to what they're
Speaker 1: trying to uh gain equally as others. And and so
Speaker 1: then our consolvation servey U E R S. He has
Speaker 1: attacked the post thirty different police forced in two thousand seventeen.
Speaker 1: That's where the collective punishment has been given as a
Speaker 1: result of the ring Ruhinge community. And it's not collective
Speaker 1: collective action. It was individual's action. Certain hundreds of people
Speaker 1: gathered together and attend police force and and and the
Speaker 1: whole rega population has been punished. So then followed by
Speaker 1: that as well, ours has been free st judging themselves
Speaker 1: and then so our our Ruhinga solebrity organizations also pop
Speaker 1: up parallelly back into nineteen and and and of course
Speaker 1: the the ideology that they stent are slightly different from
Speaker 1: one another, and so they they they they that's why
Speaker 1: the clash happened. And and UH ring A Solitary Organization
Speaker 1: think that uh like the the way that ourselves has
Speaker 1: been conducting, and they're responsible. They they for what happened
Speaker 1: to the Ruhinga people as a collectively, genocides and things
Speaker 1: I think like that, creating opportunities for Burmese military to
Speaker 1: to wipe out the Hingen deported through Hinga. And so
Speaker 1: they were this political disagreement between these two groups. And
Speaker 1: this Noman land has been mostly occupied within the Ruhinga
Speaker 1: refugees there some are some members are often trying to
Speaker 1: to enter there and and and stations there and so recently,
Speaker 1: UH the what we have learned from the ground is
Speaker 1: that our Ringu solidarity organizations UH route out and operations
Speaker 1: to remove them from there and so that the Ringery
Speaker 1: within the normal lands could live peacefully without crimes and
Speaker 1: things like that. And and that's how the fighters started
Speaker 1: and and it's escalated and there were two hundred houses
Speaker 1: being burned on shelters during refugee shelters around two thousand
Speaker 1: five hundred to three thousand people has been uh has
Speaker 1: to be displaced. They were not allowed to enter to
Speaker 1: Bangladesh because normal land is not accessible by neither parties
Speaker 1: and and it's it's just in between. So some of
Speaker 1: them has destroyed the fans toward to Burma and enter
Speaker 1: to their because they are just from the nearby abilities.
Speaker 1: They could see their abilities for five years, but they
Speaker 1: could not go back, so they so they so they
Speaker 1: went back there. But now my Mamalaty is pushing them
Speaker 1: out from from their back to the normal lands. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just, yeah, a terrible situation and buildings on the
Speaker 1: only armed groups that state right there are other round groups.
Speaker 1: But this sort of explains it more succinctly, like if
Speaker 1: we get into the other round groups, it gets even
Speaker 1: more complicated. And so I wonder what people listening, obviously
Speaker 1: will they've they've heard a lot about about the conflict
Speaker 1: in Burma, about the various different groups that are being
Speaker 1: persecuted by the Burmese military. How can they help specifically
Speaker 1: with this issue? Is is there ways that people can
Speaker 1: can help out? I think we have seen how the
Speaker 1: world came together to help Ukraine people unjustly illegally to
Speaker 1: be attacked by by Russia and and threatening the democratic
Speaker 1: society of the world. And and that has been very
Speaker 1: inspiring appreciated and and and we stand with the Ukrainian
Speaker 1: people and people in Burma. Has the life of the
Speaker 1: value of the life of the people in Burma has
Speaker 1: also there is no difference in you can buy one,
Speaker 1: you know. So we have been the people in Myanmar
Speaker 1: has been fighting for for UH the cost of life
Speaker 1: and livelihoods today with whatever means that they have to
Speaker 1: make this country back to the part of democracy. And
Speaker 1: and so international community should do beyond releasing the statement
Speaker 1: or or or of concerned, and a statement of concern
Speaker 1: maybe maybe may name and shame and may put political
Speaker 1: pressure and political pressure. UH is not the they thing
Speaker 1: that being cared by by the by the by the junta.
Speaker 1: So the the the total enemy of the overall people,
Speaker 1: including ning people, other military and and and they're the
Speaker 1: one who has destroyed this country. And they're beyond who
Speaker 1: is destroying and they're responsible primarily responsible um people institutions
Speaker 1: who wiped out through and who carried all the genocide.
Speaker 1: So I think the international community should do beyond beyond
Speaker 1: sanctions um and Ago and and and respective citizens of
Speaker 1: the country should claim to the real respective government to
Speaker 1: do more for Purmes people and the Runga people, to
Speaker 1: demonstrate the moral obligations toward to the humanity. And in
Speaker 1: twenty century genocides took place while the world was watching,
Speaker 1: and we set in the United Nations back in nineteen
Speaker 1: uh nineteen fifty forty eight that never again. And and
Speaker 1: it's very shameful that it could that the genocide could
Speaker 1: take place in the eyes of eight billion people in
Speaker 1: twenty century and modern age and the world failed to
Speaker 1: protect the Runga this party. There has been compelling stories,
Speaker 1: images and satellitteries and and and still it's continued to
Speaker 1: be so and followed by that crimes against community, war
Speaker 1: crimes has been being committed continually by the by the
Speaker 1: same military that committed genocides. And I think the international
Speaker 1: community we'll have at some point to answer to themselves
Speaker 1: on their beliefs of the humanity. Yeah, Like I think
Speaker 1: the international community, let's happened for too long, and they
Speaker 1: ignored it for too long, and then now it always
Speaker 1: happens right Like it's like for coast Boomerang. The violence
Speaker 1: spreads and gets used in the metropol and it's deeply upsetting.
Speaker 1: What does that support look like from the international community, Like,
Speaker 1: does that mean ah Man pads for PDF? Does it
Speaker 1: mean recognizing the National Unity Government? Like what concrete things
Speaker 1: should the community be doing the international communities should recognize
Speaker 1: there Again, the there are some issues that need to
Speaker 1: be fixed within the the National Unity Government, particularly the
Speaker 1: inclusions of the Ruhinga and other like it's it's positions
Speaker 1: to work to the religious other religious and ethnic minorities,
Speaker 1: particularly those are small, and that need to be fixed.
Speaker 1: And international community should do it in an instant device
Speaker 1: way that okay, you do this and we will do
Speaker 1: this for you, and and and the recognitions come with
Speaker 1: incentive of supporting, uh supporting because it's only legitimate. Whether
Speaker 1: we like the National Unity Government or not, we don't
Speaker 1: have the best alternative to it. It's democratically elected. And
Speaker 1: and there is a lot of issues within the within
Speaker 1: the within the within the the National Unity Government, particularly
Speaker 1: when it's come to the rocking issues. So these need
Speaker 1: to be dealt in in National Energy Government. I have
Speaker 1: been consistently advising them to fix this, acting beyond policy
Speaker 1: and and and and showing like state level prioritized agenda
Speaker 1: with concrete milestone to to to the change to word
Speaker 1: to the rocking UH. And of course, parallel to that,
Speaker 1: international community should ensure that big supports are being given,
Speaker 1: being recognized and and and and in order to win
Speaker 1: these revolutions which has shaken the very institution that has
Speaker 1: consumed the resource of the country in various means and
Speaker 1: ways UH. Some UH and one of the strongest institution
Speaker 1: has been shaken by the young people UH with very
Speaker 1: small means that they are very small and time to time,
Speaker 1: very innovative UH and and and and utilizing whatever means
Speaker 1: that they had. An international community should provide support to
Speaker 1: PIA to be first and foremost institutionalizing and and and
Speaker 1: and capacity building enhancing acting upon international stent that we
Speaker 1: are UH way of operating as as a as a
Speaker 1: military group and and of course when you are being
Speaker 1: established as an as a military UH institutions UH and
Speaker 1: it is it's being formed by the by the legal
Speaker 1: government of Myanmar. And to support this this this military
Speaker 1: and many many nations are getting military assistant speckage and
Speaker 1: and I think international community should have no problem to
Speaker 1: provide military system package too, of course in a very
Speaker 1: principles and value based with with the value BASTE approach,
Speaker 1: and and and and and let's include the technical support
Speaker 1: to to to set up the mechanisms to heal their
Speaker 1: contable and to ensure the transparencient accountable across the aspectrum. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's that's very well said. And they do
Speaker 1: tend like if people aren't familiar with the way the
Speaker 1: PDFs have been organized, like they they have been very
Speaker 1: respectful of like norms and laws of war and things
Speaker 1: like that, which obviously that the Barmese military have not.
Speaker 1: And I think and institutions that a group that has
Speaker 1: been with hundred hundred prousands of people, young people with
Speaker 1: no prior military experience and mostly operating in a very
Speaker 1: limited uh to no resource context and being able to
Speaker 1: respect the human rights and human dignity should be recognized.
Speaker 1: You know. There when you you have a gun, and
Speaker 1: there are there are things that happen and need to
Speaker 1: be justified in and and being held accountable for. But
Speaker 1: I'm saying that I'm not saying that it should be
Speaker 1: a lot in any any any kind of misconduct within
Speaker 1: the military systems need to be investigated properly and take
Speaker 1: actions upon and held accountable those who get these who
Speaker 1: carried out these actions, and who gave common to carry
Speaker 1: out this action. But the number of cases related to
Speaker 1: the to the to the to the to the PDP
Speaker 1: has been significantly low. And when when it's come to
Speaker 1: the to the human right violations and and it has
Speaker 1: to be zero and even one is too much. But
Speaker 1: I'm saying compared to UH to UH and and and
Speaker 1: I think continued support need to be given there in
Speaker 1: order to to to enhance their capacity to defeat the
Speaker 1: junta plus to defeat it in the principle and value
Speaker 1: based with the principle and value based approach. Yeah, yeah, certainly,
Speaker 1: the definitely like the people we've spoken to, a terr
Speaker 1: holy equipped by any modern standards, incredibly brave and innovative.
Speaker 1: They could certainly do a lot better. They have a
Speaker 1: lot more. Okay, where can people if people want to
Speaker 1: follow along with your work, which is very impressive, how
Speaker 1: can they find you? Do you have like do you
Speaker 1: want to share your Twitter account or a website? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Where can people keep up with you? So? I am
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook mostly and my tutor is a
Speaker 1: k MOO two UH and which you can see it's
Speaker 1: with my pictures and and I have put my bio
Speaker 1: as well there. And I'm also also very active on
Speaker 1: the Facebook and what the work related. Most of the
Speaker 1: work that I do, UH are being not everything, but
Speaker 1: some part that international community need to know are being
Speaker 1: portrayed there. And particularly UH the human rights situations related
Speaker 1: to the Ruhinga and Rhinga if it is in Bangladesh
Speaker 1: are being being being shared there in a timely, very
Speaker 1: timely manner. Sometimes even lives you know, it's have now
Speaker 1: and being and uh, yeah, yeah, you've been very good
Speaker 1: at that. And I put your Twitter account and it's
Speaker 1: very informative and it helps me stay informed. So it's
Speaker 1: it's a k m o E two if people are
Speaker 1: searching for it. Thank you so much for giving us
Speaker 1: some of your evening. I really really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want to get to before
Speaker 1: we finish up now? It's lovely to be part of
Speaker 1: the program, and thank you so much for helping me.
Speaker 1: Once again, thank you very much. It could happen here
Speaker 1: as a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from Cool Zone Media, visit our website. Cool zone media
Speaker 1: dot com or check us out on the I Heart
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Speaker 1: you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated
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Speaker 1: for listening.