WEBVTT - Rohingya History and Cuture with Aung Kyaw Moe 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:07.120 Hi, everyone, is it could happen here and it's just 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.760 James today because today I'm doing a little interview on 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:15.080 the situation for Hinga people. If you're not familiar with 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.439 the Hinda genocide, we're not going to cover that in depth, 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.799 but we will give a little bit of an overview. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.759 And I'm talking to onkyr Mo, who is Rehinga himself 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.760 and who works with the National Unity Government and advising 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.760 them about Hina people's human rights. I think the news 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:35.080 cycle hasn't really covered many hinder issues since the Rhinea genocide. 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.000 The world's kind of moved on from caring about them, 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.640 but they're still in a very difficult situation, and we 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.479 want to update you on issues that continue to face 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.640 the Rehinga people. I hope you enjoyed the interview. So 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.680 today I'm joined by on Kyomo, who's an advisor to 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.320 the National Unity Government of Myanma, which people will hopefully 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.160 be familiar with. If not, he can explain a little 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.520 bit of what that is. He's an advisor to the 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.560 Ministry of Human Rights and also a hing Your human 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.000 rights activists himself, and so Pai, thank you so much 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.880 for joining me, Thank you for having me yeah. So 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.480 what I'd love to do today is I think if 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.720 our listeners have listened to our previous coverage what's happening 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.479 in Myama or Burma, depending on which one you prefer, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.039 they will know a lot about the coup, and they 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.959 will know a lot about the things that happens INSCU 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.560 right the PDFs and the ethnic resistance organizations. But I 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:32.000 think they might not be as familiar with the situation 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.080 that Reiner people have been in for a long time 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.960 and continue to be in. It's a different part of 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.720 the the country to we were we were in um Maso, 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.959 which is on the other side. That's something we've covered 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.000 a lot less. So perhaps you could begin by explaining, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:54.600 like why there are so many Hindia refugees who have left. Obviously, 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.760 the history of the persecution of Ranger people is very long, 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.880 but if you could give us sort of a potted 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:06.360 history of the persecution of Rheinga people by various governments 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.800 in Myanmar and and what has led to this massive 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.000 exodus and this this big refugee population for Hinda people, now, 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.359 that would be great to start with. Great, thank you, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.200 thank you for having me in. The history is very long, 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:25.120 but I will be concrete and and and short. The 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:30.120 Rheinga people has been in Myanmar before Burma even exists, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.440 before Burma become Burma, and before British came. And their 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:42.760 significant architect color related infrastructure that exists indicates existence of 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.280 the Ruhengan. There's a lot of literature research and Runga 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:52.480 people themselves living in generations and generations um there indicates 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.520 that Runga are part of my and Mare and it 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.160 used to be and it will be and runger not 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.120 only the ethnic minority, they are also the religious minority. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.840 Majority of Premise people are Buddhists and of the second largest, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.840 followed by the Muslims are Christian, and then the third 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.960 largest or Muslim and Ruhinga are Muslim and and Ruhinga 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:19.760 are single Muslim ethnic groups and Sink also religious ethnic groups. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:26.120 And there has been historical exclusion discriminations sponsored by the 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.600 and sponsored and carried out by the consecutive government of 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.720 Myanmar to target the religious and ethnic minority, to exclude 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:39.520 from religious, ethnic and social aspects of the society, and 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.320 and it has been politically motivating for many government It 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:47.720 has always been beneficial in in and bussing the larger 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.360 populations of Myanmar by showing Ruhinga as a threat to 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:55.720 the country because of their religious differences and to the 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.760 way that we were and we eat are slightly different 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.480 than than purpose because we have our own culture and 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:07.320 own traditions and own language and and UH and it's 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:14.000 enreached by by those UH. Thus the first start of execution, 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.640 like executing these discriminatory policies to work to the Rhinga 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:22.000 has started as as long as um as far as 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.920 back in nineteen sixty where the first cool took in 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.960 nineteen sixty two when first cool took place, and then 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:33.760 military consecutive military government accelerated that to form to uh 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:38.919 A situations where it could be UH defined and fall 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.880 under the category of the crimes against humanity. UH So 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.880 in nineteen seventy eight there is a big operations against 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:51.159 Rhinga people to deport them and two d thousand people 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.320 has to be flee to to Bangladesh and some of 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.400 them still remain as refugees to pout generations for the 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.760 generations in banglad there's not being able to repatriate it 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.960 to the place where they come from. And followed by 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:09.320 that the nineteen UH nine two, there was another influx 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:15.720 of the refugees, and the refugee it's also the quite 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.400 significant larger number of the refugees, and and and not 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.080 everyone could come back. And there is another layer of 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:28.240 the refugees that remains from the report treating then from 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.680 the biolation, the human rights violations became too throwing as 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.839 business a surial, limiting the child, the number of child 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:41.000 that you can have, and treating you less than an animals, 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.440 not having the religious right to exercise the way that 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:49.600 you believe, and restrictions of movement, killing, raping, and it's continued, 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.960 and it has been accelerated in different form and shape 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.800 where it could be it could come to a situation 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.520 it's from from crimes against you, and it is being 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.560 transformed to genocides and and in two thousands seventeen it's 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.320 one to the highest pick of the genocides where a 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:10.000 million people are being deported by burning and many people 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.039 had a thousand people died, and many thousands women being raped. 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.839 And there are a lot of fatherless a child in 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:22.640 the camp today being uh big bond by by by 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.200 by the Women's who, victims of the of the reef 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.000 of the Miama military. And today there is a million 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.800 people in Bangladesh and UH with no hope to be 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.240 reportuated soon to the place of origin with safety and dignity. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.480 And of course the political landscape in Myanma has shifted. UH. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.159 It used to be in the democratic transition from two 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:48.880 thousands ten to twenty with two consecutive different government. And 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.040 the democratically elected government has been overthrown by by a 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.560 temkup by the military who had ruled the country for 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.600 for for many decades. And and and of course the 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.920 democratically elected government which I advise to UH is being 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.640 Some of the member of the government are being arrested, 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.400 and some are in the in the ethnic territorial control, 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.280 and and some are in exile, and and and so 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.320 the country. So the reactions of the fifty million people 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.679 has been different because there has been several co Indian 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.680 mara and this was the the the political calculations of 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.040 the military leaders to attempt the coup was wrong that 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.720 they did not expect the resistance of the people. And 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.320 then of course the the the young generation Z people 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.400 came in to to resist. Uitially, they claimed to be 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.120 peacefully protesting to hand over the power back to the 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.240 to the to the democratically elected people. But as a 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.520 result they were being brutally cracked on and killed, arrested. 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.040 And then and then the young people started to understand 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.160 that we need to speak the language that they understand. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.240 They understand, so they speak that language is grabbing a 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.760 gun and and and and promming the military. So followed 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.720 by that National Unity Government has been fromed by with 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.840 the elected members of the of the of the Parliament 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.560 worth lower horna opera host. So the National Unity Government 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.080 today is the most the legitimate government of the NMAR 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.040 and having also some territorial control. Of course, the majority 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:22.920 of the government in infrastructure are being being captured illegally 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.000 by the military untain. Yeah, that's and it's interesting that 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.760 people aren't familiar with the sort of ethnic makeup of 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.840 previous governments and then the National Unity Government. From what 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:37.760 I understand, it's not as much dominated by the majority 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:41.080 ethnic Berman people in the International Unity Government as it 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.160 was before even under the n LG. Right, even under 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.360 sort of the most most democratic that there has been 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.320 in the MMA for some time, like there was still 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.240 a domination by by one ethnicity. Right that the National 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.760 Unity Government is more ethnically diverse, is that right? Correct? 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.720 But still there's are a lot of rooms for improvement. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.560 Particularly Rhea people has always been part of Myanmar and 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.079 politically excluded. And despite a million people being pushed out 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.640 to the Bangladesh through a genocidal attempt, the remaining populations 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.440 in Myanmar is six people politically represented, both sides of 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:22.280 populations under continued genocidal attempts of the Miama military. Internationally, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:27.000 United Government did not include politically meaningfully the Rhinga populations 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.160 still now and they appointed me as an adviser. But 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.839 a politically representable size of populations need to be represented, 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.200 not by functions alone. It's need to be fund both 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:41.280 all represented by functions and number equally to to UH, 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.040 to other ethnic And we're in the context of identity 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.960 politics in Myanmar and your political rights and responsibilities to 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:51.720 what to the nations are associated that the very identity 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.680 that you were so time to time. There is a 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.400 big questions like you know, we're moving forward to the 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.360 part of democracy to make the kind too, back to 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.760 the track of democracy. But the very principle of democracy 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.719 is majority rules and and respect the minorities right right, 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:14.720 And still the Runga are being despite the international pressure, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:18.360 particularly the United States and it's allies to have inclusive 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.319 democracy and Ruhinga people are not yet meaningful included in 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.440 the government. Yeah, and I think that's something we've spoken 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.920 about a lot with with Karen and Karni people who 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.800 we've spoken to about the sort of the need for 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:36.240 a more inclusive structure, whether that's like a federal democracy 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.400 after obviously after the military hunter has been deposed, or 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:44.840 certainly something that's more inclusive, and perhaps we can talk 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.440 about how like it's very interesting to me when I 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:53.240 talk to young people generation Z people from MMA, they 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.319 will say that like they wouldn't have even said sometimes 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.960 for a hung yet like ten years ago, that they 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.360 wouldn't have used to turn. They have seen the people 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.920 who we know who we would call Rhinga as Bangladeshi's right, 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.559 because this was the narrative. Can you explain how you've 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.800 explained very well that that's not true, but how that 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.040 narrative was constructed and what it was used to do. 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.679 I think it's once again to exclude through Hingen to 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:25.559 carry out systematic destructions mentally and physically on the Rhinga 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.559 is also a lot to do with their spreading propaganda, 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:34.480 misinformations and disinformations through a state let media bost online 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.800 and offline. And so this means these destructions has happened 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:44.160 with the state sponsortain state pre planned intentional um intentional 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:49.920 intentional UH way of doing it. And thus the society 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.760 the people has been restricted from moving. And this is 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.280 one of the least developed region where the hunger people living. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:01.040 A lot of people from from like other states wouldn't 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:02.920 be able to travel and go and see what is 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.000 happening really inside there and to people would not be 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.240 able to movets of that to tell their stories. So 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.120 all the narrative that people here is the military and 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.760 the government what the government used to put at that moment, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.640 So in the in the in the eyes or in 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.199 the perceptions of the people through Rhingas are from Bangladesh 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.200 and they are trying to to take over the country 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.560 and they had a national security threat and that was 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:31.920 the narrative. So they the reality is being defined by 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.120 the perceptions and calls and misinformations that being given in 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.720 the consistent intentional way to the young people. And of 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:43.280 course today I think has changed slightly to be seeing 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:47.600 to what is reality and people showing the sympathy to 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.240 what happened to the Ruhinga, because it's every time something 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.600 happened in me Amre like that, it's consistent to work 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.160 to the Rhinga, the human rights violations, crimes against humanity 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:02.160 and genocide. And the people fifty million people in Yanmar 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.959 were not either they are seeing neutral or they're extending 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.760 with the military not like too that this should do 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.000 this and this is right to do to kill people 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:19.880 direct to rape because their national security threat. But what 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.480 had happened to the Rhinga people, perhaps in the not 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.280 the same shape and the same a slerity or valocity 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.640 or momentum or intensity has started to happen after the coup, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.439 to to the to the Boma people. And then they 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.600 tend to realize what happened to Ringa. What Ringa used 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.520 to tell running the whole village is killing and raping, 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.880 is exactly what what what is happening more or less 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.280 exactly what is happening to us? Than they were right? 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.360 And it's the big teams change and the proper traitors 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.520 remain the same. And would that concept to people come 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.080 to But again I think they still it's very small 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.880 number of the populations, uh compared to the whole populations 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.120 that lives in Yanmar. And in the critic principles there 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.120 is no like you don't tend to say something just 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.520 because that you sympathize, and there there are principles and 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:12.240 values that you do not compromise in any circumstance. So 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:18.760 equal right, justice and and inclusivity and like like celebrating 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.320 of the diversity. These things are very core principles of 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.280 of of the democracy that that we are like a 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.120 Suburmese people asking from international community to help. What we're 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.360 preaching for to war to the democracy need to be 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.120 demonstrated at home. First, we need to act up on 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:39.360 and and so I think the benchmark there's no the 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.520 benchmarks shouldn't be defined to include or exclude someone based 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.560 on the sympathies need to be based on the principles 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:56.680 and values. Can you explain a little bit about the 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.040 situation that Hinge people who have left me and and 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.560 maybe they're INCOXETERUSA, maybe they're in No man's land, maybe 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.760 they're they're now being moved to an island, right. Can 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.040 can you explain what life is like for those people. 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.960 Of course, the when we can get people flights to Bangladesh, 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:21.800 it was attempting to survive. Uh like they managed to 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:26.520 survive and otherwise many died and they could be one 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.480 of those who who died and they survive, meaning that 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.000 these old people are have physical and mental destruction and 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.560 unhealless scars in their physical and mental aspects of the life. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.800 And and of course a million people in Bangladesh to 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.320 be hosted by the Bangladeshi government bangladeshih people has been 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.120 also very difficult because the resource in the given area 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.440 is very limited and Bangladesh itself is a small country 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:57.000 with with with limited resource and and we should always 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.080 appreciate Bangladeship people and Bangladeship government to open their arms 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.520 and hurt to to to absorbs and and and a 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.560 Midian people and and and and again. I think the 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.720 problems started in Myanmar and and the solutions need to 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.440 be in me and Mare and and the people need 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.000 to be going with say dignified h way to the 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.640 place of origin. And and of course Bangladesh. It has 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.240 been five years plus now that the people like the 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.760 largest influx took place in Sucer and seventeen uh, and 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.480 they were repatriation septem being made and and the when 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.960 people fled from Myanmar jump into the Nap River and 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.360 Bay of Bengal into those seventeen because the land was 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.800 more dangerous than the sea. Situations remained very same or 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.960 even worse than that now in in in Mire Mar 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.480 to be going back so you you escape from a 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:53.120 grape that you have buried, uh to be killed and 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.480 being pushed to go back to to to me and 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.920 Mark is as being sent him back to the to 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.440 the grape that you escape from from from dying uh. 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.760 So the situation doesn't favor for a safe, dignified, voluntary 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.800 return for the for the Reinga that's Bangladeshi authorities are 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.080 trying to find different innovated modality in different ways how 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:18.000 to how to create sustainable situations for the including relocations 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.720 of the of the certain number of the of the 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:25.600 of the Inga populations because the the the the camps 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.200 are very congested and the hygiene level in the camp 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.760 are very low and there are a lot of also 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.879 the the the crow on like you know, if a 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.919 million people in a small scale place like that's are 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:42.840 being being closed, anything could happen anytime, you know. So 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.760 the the the idea was too by the Bangladeshi government, 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:51.120 which doesn't fall into into the principle of international way 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.440 of doing things, and and relocating some of these refugees 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.080 to an island that has its a new islands. No 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.119 human being has been a lived there, and the island 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.680 has been technically from various technical assessment has identified it's 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.320 not livable by human being yet and because there are 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.679 a lot of like cyclones and and and flats and 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.440 things like that, and it's very far away from millions 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.440 of Bangladesh and and it yeah, so there is risk 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.359 from UH from various perspectives to be able. But despite this, 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:28.840 Bangladeshi government has built, sheltered this and relocated UH some 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:33.280 numbers of Ruhinga, and some of them went by their 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.720 own will, seeing that it might be a different and 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.199 and some are being maybe perhaps post and and of 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.800 course there are a certain number of like around close 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.600 to UH five to six thousand people in no man's 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.880 land when Bangladesh at the beginning did not open its 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:54.040 border when Rhinga were feleeing, and so this Norman land 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:57.280 we're being occupied by the nearby abilities because Bangladesh wouldn't 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.240 open the gate for them and they were stuck in 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.840 in there. So they have it happened to be stuck 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.439 there since the last five years. Uh and the remaining 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.600 gro lives in in in in coxwas a districts of 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.760 Bangladesh in different parts of this this districts. So that's 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.879 the situation. Yeah, that's very well said, and it's some 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:25.200 people have taken on recently leaving these camps in Bangladesh. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.960 They've taken on this very risky boat journey, right. I 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.000 think they're going to places like Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, Indonesia, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.480 And can you explain a little bit about like how 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.080 prevalent that is and of course how incredibly like high 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.639 RISCU it is for people to take that journey. Sure, 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.680 the the situations in the camp is not much different 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.600 than the life that they used to live in in 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:52.840 Indian mar Despite that, the level of level of human 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.840 rights politions and the treatment that they're having may not 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.840 be the same. But Bangladesh is not a signature to 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.760 refugee conventions and it's not legally obliged to be to 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.760 be following all international norms and protocols to be to 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.840 be hosting the the the the the refugees. But despite 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.840 they have demonstrated the humanity UH and demonstrated the moral 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.399 obligations towards the humanity to to host the million people 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.760 and the then the a million people. Some of them 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.159 has been from V eight and some of them are 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.680 from nine, some of them are from two seventeen. Has 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.960 a very dark future. They are closed in this fence 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.400 camp and the movements are restricted. Access to informations are 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.840 not given like the interne Access to informations are are 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.639 like internet service and things like that has been denied. 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.399 Access to livelihoods are denied and they're not able to 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.479 legally work and solely rely onto to the International Humanity 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.480 and assistem. Access to education has been denied. So the 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.000 young people who are growing in this camp does not 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.440 see a future they will be able to go back 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.800 to me and Mark or if they live here. As 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.200 if you're living a debt, like you know, you don't 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.800 have any any any way forwards seeing a bright fisher 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.359 So there is there is the only they don't have 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.520 the best alternative to be trying to be exploring different 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.040 parts and the only part it's happened to be is 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.680 being created in the past, uh in the past by 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:28.160 some rhingas taking these boats and making to Malaysia where 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.600 they could do some domestic works and get a refugee 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.680 status and maybe able to work, and and some you're 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.879 lucky enough to be resettled in the third country. A 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.600 small number maybe less than two, less than two or 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.879 three percent of the total total ruinga reladyershire. So the 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.520 journey is very risky. The the the the the boats 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.680 that they're taking, the first the c is very rough 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.919 that they take, and their the infrastructure, what infrastructure that 0:21:55.920 --> 0:22:00.480 they're taking are not uh bill like, they not built 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.520 in a way to be coping with this rough sea 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.520 and rough rough weathers and climates. So many of these 0:22:05.760 --> 0:22:08.639 younger people who make this, less than fifty percent of 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.920 them may make it to the to the destinations. Either 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.000 they die on the sea, or they are being arrested 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.480 by different navies and and and or they're they're being 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:22.040 jailed by by Mini and mar junta. And in two 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:25.360 thousand twenty two alone, three thousand, five hundred, more than 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.760 three thousand, five hundred people including children as young as 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.399 two years old, jailed to five years for trying to 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:37.280 attempt to to go to Malaysia. So this is this 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.760 is what it is happening. So the the life is 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.320 meaningless there. And of course taking this journeymane that you're 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.480 tossing a coin whether you get a tail or you 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.000 get you get head or you got tails, you know, 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.200 and and and so it's like betting your life whether 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.680 if you make it, you're you're life to somewhat level meaningfully, 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:00.280 if you don't make it your life and it is 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:01.600 more or less the same that you will live in 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.440 there in there. So that's why these are the push factors, 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.480 and of course they are full factors reunifications. If a 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.400 son has made UH three years ago, five years ago 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.320 to to Malaysia and working in the constructions or or 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.399 or or or or or gardening like levers and and 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:20.919 you have a remaining family in the camp and you 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:23.159 don't want to see your family in that situation, and 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:25.240 you're want to bring your family kids or children's or 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.320 wife and you do that. And lastly, also they are 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.080 growing youth in Malaysia who are who want to marry 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:33.520 the UA and maintain the culture and language and things 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:36.160 like that, so they want to have rights bringing from 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.639 the refugi camp and and so they're they're different, uh 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.000 push factor, pull factor as well from from Malaysia, but 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.439 the prime primary factor is the push factor in Indian 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.400 martin in Bangladesh, right, Yeah, and fat reason for people 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.960 to want so yeah, some futures and some chance to 0:23:54.240 --> 0:24:07.240 realize their own life and that goes. So can you 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:09.760 explain people will probably have seen like I think we're 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:14.600 recording this on Thursday, UM, which is the date nineteen 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:17.760 and people would have seen the last couple of days 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:22.520 maybe videos of fires in No man's land, and they 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.960 will probably have seen like some acronyms, which are a 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:28.119 lot of acronyms when when you're reading about me m 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:31.000 I can be very confusing. So could you explain a 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.600 little bit about who these two groups that we've seen, right, 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.119 the A R S A and the R s O, 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:39.920 who they are and what they what they represent and 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:43.679 perhaps why these two groups who are nominally Hingia are 0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:47.639