1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, is it could happen here and it's just 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: James today because today I'm doing a little interview on 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: the situation for Hinga people. If you're not familiar with 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: the Hinda genocide, we're not going to cover that in depth, 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: but we will give a little bit of an overview. 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: And I'm talking to onkyr Mo, who is Rehinga himself 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: and who works with the National Unity Government and advising 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: them about Hina people's human rights. I think the news 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: cycle hasn't really covered many hinder issues since the Rhinea genocide. 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: The world's kind of moved on from caring about them, 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: but they're still in a very difficult situation, and we 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: want to update you on issues that continue to face 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: the Rehinga people. I hope you enjoyed the interview. So 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: today I'm joined by on Kyomo, who's an advisor to 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: the National Unity Government of Myanma, which people will hopefully 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: be familiar with. If not, he can explain a little 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: bit of what that is. He's an advisor to the 18 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: Ministry of Human Rights and also a hing Your human 19 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: rights activists himself, and so Pai, thank you so much 20 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: for joining me, Thank you for having me yeah. So 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: what I'd love to do today is I think if 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: our listeners have listened to our previous coverage what's happening 23 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: in Myama or Burma, depending on which one you prefer, 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: they will know a lot about the coup, and they 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: will know a lot about the things that happens INSCU 26 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: right the PDFs and the ethnic resistance organizations. But I 27 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: think they might not be as familiar with the situation 28 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: that Reiner people have been in for a long time 29 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: and continue to be in. It's a different part of 30 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: the the country to we were we were in um Maso, 31 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: which is on the other side. That's something we've covered 32 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: a lot less. So perhaps you could begin by explaining, 33 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: like why there are so many Hindia refugees who have left. Obviously, 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: the history of the persecution of Ranger people is very long, 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: but if you could give us sort of a potted 36 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: history of the persecution of Rheinga people by various governments 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: in Myanmar and and what has led to this massive 38 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: exodus and this this big refugee population for Hinda people, now, 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: that would be great to start with. Great, thank you, 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: thank you for having me in. The history is very long, 41 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: but I will be concrete and and and short. The 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: Rheinga people has been in Myanmar before Burma even exists, 43 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: before Burma become Burma, and before British came. And their 44 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: significant architect color related infrastructure that exists indicates existence of 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: the Ruhengan. There's a lot of literature research and Runga 46 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: people themselves living in generations and generations um there indicates 47 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: that Runga are part of my and Mare and it 48 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: used to be and it will be and runger not 49 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: only the ethnic minority, they are also the religious minority. 50 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: Majority of Premise people are Buddhists and of the second largest, 51 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: followed by the Muslims are Christian, and then the third 52 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: largest or Muslim and Ruhinga are Muslim and and Ruhinga 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: are single Muslim ethnic groups and Sink also religious ethnic groups. 54 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: And there has been historical exclusion discriminations sponsored by the 55 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: and sponsored and carried out by the consecutive government of 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: Myanmar to target the religious and ethnic minority, to exclude 57 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: from religious, ethnic and social aspects of the society, and 58 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: and it has been politically motivating for many government It 59 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: has always been beneficial in in and bussing the larger 60 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: populations of Myanmar by showing Ruhinga as a threat to 61 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: the country because of their religious differences and to the 62 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: way that we were and we eat are slightly different 63 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: than than purpose because we have our own culture and 64 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: own traditions and own language and and UH and it's 65 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: enreached by by those UH. Thus the first start of execution, 66 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: like executing these discriminatory policies to work to the Rhinga 67 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: has started as as long as um as far as 68 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: back in nineteen sixty where the first cool took in 69 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two when first cool took place, and then 70 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: military consecutive military government accelerated that to form to uh 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: A situations where it could be UH defined and fall 72 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: under the category of the crimes against humanity. UH So 73 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight there is a big operations against 74 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 1: Rhinga people to deport them and two d thousand people 75 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: has to be flee to to Bangladesh and some of 76 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: them still remain as refugees to pout generations for the 77 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: generations in banglad there's not being able to repatriate it 78 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: to the place where they come from. And followed by 79 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: that the nineteen UH nine two, there was another influx 80 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: of the refugees, and the refugee it's also the quite 81 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: significant larger number of the refugees, and and and not 82 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: everyone could come back. And there is another layer of 83 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: the refugees that remains from the report treating then from 84 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: the biolation, the human rights violations became too throwing as 85 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: business a surial, limiting the child, the number of child 86 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: that you can have, and treating you less than an animals, 87 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: not having the religious right to exercise the way that 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: you believe, and restrictions of movement, killing, raping, and it's continued, 89 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: and it has been accelerated in different form and shape 90 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: where it could be it could come to a situation 91 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: it's from from crimes against you, and it is being 92 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: transformed to genocides and and in two thousands seventeen it's 93 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: one to the highest pick of the genocides where a 94 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: million people are being deported by burning and many people 95 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: had a thousand people died, and many thousands women being raped. 96 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of fatherless a child in 97 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: the camp today being uh big bond by by by 98 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: by the Women's who, victims of the of the reef 99 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: of the Miama military. And today there is a million 100 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: people in Bangladesh and UH with no hope to be 101 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: reportuated soon to the place of origin with safety and dignity. 102 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: And of course the political landscape in Myanma has shifted. UH. 103 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: It used to be in the democratic transition from two 104 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: thousands ten to twenty with two consecutive different government. And 105 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: the democratically elected government has been overthrown by by a 106 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: temkup by the military who had ruled the country for 107 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: for for many decades. And and and of course the 108 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: democratically elected government which I advise to UH is being 109 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: Some of the member of the government are being arrested, 110 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: and some are in the in the ethnic territorial control, 111 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: and and some are in exile, and and and so 112 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: the country. So the reactions of the fifty million people 113 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 1: has been different because there has been several co Indian 114 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: mara and this was the the the political calculations of 115 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: the military leaders to attempt the coup was wrong that 116 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: they did not expect the resistance of the people. And 117 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: then of course the the the young generation Z people 118 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: came in to to resist. Uitially, they claimed to be 119 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: peacefully protesting to hand over the power back to the 120 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: to the to the democratically elected people. But as a 121 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: result they were being brutally cracked on and killed, arrested. 122 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: And then and then the young people started to understand 123 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: that we need to speak the language that they understand. 124 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: They understand, so they speak that language is grabbing a 125 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: gun and and and and promming the military. So followed 126 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: by that National Unity Government has been fromed by with 127 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: the elected members of the of the of the Parliament 128 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: worth lower horna opera host. So the National Unity Government 129 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: today is the most the legitimate government of the NMAR 130 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: and having also some territorial control. Of course, the majority 131 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: of the government in infrastructure are being being captured illegally 132 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: by the military untain. Yeah, that's and it's interesting that 133 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: people aren't familiar with the sort of ethnic makeup of 134 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: previous governments and then the National Unity Government. From what 135 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: I understand, it's not as much dominated by the majority 136 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: ethnic Berman people in the International Unity Government as it 137 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: was before even under the n LG. Right, even under 138 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: sort of the most most democratic that there has been 139 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: in the MMA for some time, like there was still 140 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: a domination by by one ethnicity. Right that the National 141 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: Unity Government is more ethnically diverse, is that right? Correct? 142 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: But still there's are a lot of rooms for improvement. 143 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: Particularly Rhea people has always been part of Myanmar and 144 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: politically excluded. And despite a million people being pushed out 145 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: to the Bangladesh through a genocidal attempt, the remaining populations 146 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: in Myanmar is six people politically represented, both sides of 147 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: populations under continued genocidal attempts of the Miama military. Internationally, 148 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: United Government did not include politically meaningfully the Rhinga populations 149 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: still now and they appointed me as an adviser. But 150 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: a politically representable size of populations need to be represented, 151 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: not by functions alone. It's need to be fund both 152 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: all represented by functions and number equally to to UH, 153 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: to other ethnic And we're in the context of identity 154 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: politics in Myanmar and your political rights and responsibilities to 155 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: what to the nations are associated that the very identity 156 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: that you were so time to time. There is a 157 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: big questions like you know, we're moving forward to the 158 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: part of democracy to make the kind too, back to 159 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: the track of democracy. But the very principle of democracy 160 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: is majority rules and and respect the minorities right right, 161 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: And still the Runga are being despite the international pressure, 162 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: particularly the United States and it's allies to have inclusive 163 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: democracy and Ruhinga people are not yet meaningful included in 164 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: the government. Yeah, and I think that's something we've spoken 165 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: about a lot with with Karen and Karni people who 166 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: we've spoken to about the sort of the need for 167 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: a more inclusive structure, whether that's like a federal democracy 168 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: after obviously after the military hunter has been deposed, or 169 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: certainly something that's more inclusive, and perhaps we can talk 170 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: about how like it's very interesting to me when I 171 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: talk to young people generation Z people from MMA, they 172 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: will say that like they wouldn't have even said sometimes 173 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: for a hung yet like ten years ago, that they 174 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't have used to turn. They have seen the people 175 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: who we know who we would call Rhinga as Bangladeshi's right, 176 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: because this was the narrative. Can you explain how you've 177 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: explained very well that that's not true, but how that 178 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: narrative was constructed and what it was used to do. 179 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: I think it's once again to exclude through Hingen to 180 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: carry out systematic destructions mentally and physically on the Rhinga 181 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: is also a lot to do with their spreading propaganda, 182 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: misinformations and disinformations through a state let media bost online 183 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: and offline. And so this means these destructions has happened 184 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: with the state sponsortain state pre planned intentional um intentional 185 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: intentional UH way of doing it. And thus the society 186 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: the people has been restricted from moving. And this is 187 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: one of the least developed region where the hunger people living. 188 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: A lot of people from from like other states wouldn't 189 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: be able to travel and go and see what is 190 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: happening really inside there and to people would not be 191 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: able to movets of that to tell their stories. So 192 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: all the narrative that people here is the military and 193 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: the government what the government used to put at that moment, 194 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: So in the in the in the eyes or in 195 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: the perceptions of the people through Rhingas are from Bangladesh 196 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: and they are trying to to take over the country 197 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: and they had a national security threat and that was 198 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: the narrative. So they the reality is being defined by 199 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: the perceptions and calls and misinformations that being given in 200 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: the consistent intentional way to the young people. And of 201 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: course today I think has changed slightly to be seeing 202 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: to what is reality and people showing the sympathy to 203 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: what happened to the Ruhinga, because it's every time something 204 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: happened in me Amre like that, it's consistent to work 205 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: to the Rhinga, the human rights violations, crimes against humanity 206 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: and genocide. And the people fifty million people in Yanmar 207 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: were not either they are seeing neutral or they're extending 208 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: with the military not like too that this should do 209 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: this and this is right to do to kill people 210 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: direct to rape because their national security threat. But what 211 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: had happened to the Rhinga people, perhaps in the not 212 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: the same shape and the same a slerity or valocity 213 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: or momentum or intensity has started to happen after the coup, 214 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: to to the to the Boma people. And then they 215 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: tend to realize what happened to Ringa. What Ringa used 216 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: to tell running the whole village is killing and raping, 217 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: is exactly what what what is happening more or less 218 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: exactly what is happening to us? Than they were right? 219 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: And it's the big teams change and the proper traitors 220 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: remain the same. And would that concept to people come 221 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: to But again I think they still it's very small 222 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: number of the populations, uh compared to the whole populations 223 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: that lives in Yanmar. And in the critic principles there 224 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: is no like you don't tend to say something just 225 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: because that you sympathize, and there there are principles and 226 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: values that you do not compromise in any circumstance. So 227 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: equal right, justice and and inclusivity and like like celebrating 228 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: of the diversity. These things are very core principles of 229 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: of of the democracy that that we are like a 230 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: Suburmese people asking from international community to help. What we're 231 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: preaching for to war to the democracy need to be 232 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: demonstrated at home. First, we need to act up on 233 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: and and so I think the benchmark there's no the 234 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: benchmarks shouldn't be defined to include or exclude someone based 235 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: on the sympathies need to be based on the principles 236 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: and values. Can you explain a little bit about the 237 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 1: situation that Hinge people who have left me and and 238 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: maybe they're INCOXETERUSA, maybe they're in No man's land, maybe 239 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: they're they're now being moved to an island, right. Can 240 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: can you explain what life is like for those people. 241 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: Of course, the when we can get people flights to Bangladesh, 242 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: it was attempting to survive. Uh like they managed to 243 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: survive and otherwise many died and they could be one 244 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: of those who who died and they survive, meaning that 245 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: these old people are have physical and mental destruction and 246 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: unhealless scars in their physical and mental aspects of the life. 247 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: And and of course a million people in Bangladesh to 248 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: be hosted by the Bangladeshi government bangladeshih people has been 249 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: also very difficult because the resource in the given area 250 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: is very limited and Bangladesh itself is a small country 251 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: with with with limited resource and and we should always 252 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: appreciate Bangladeship people and Bangladeship government to open their arms 253 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: and hurt to to to absorbs and and and a 254 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: Midian people and and and and again. I think the 255 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: problems started in Myanmar and and the solutions need to 256 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: be in me and Mare and and the people need 257 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: to be going with say dignified h way to the 258 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: place of origin. And and of course Bangladesh. It has 259 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: been five years plus now that the people like the 260 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: largest influx took place in Sucer and seventeen uh, and 261 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: they were repatriation septem being made and and the when 262 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: people fled from Myanmar jump into the Nap River and 263 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: Bay of Bengal into those seventeen because the land was 264 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: more dangerous than the sea. Situations remained very same or 265 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: even worse than that now in in in Mire Mar 266 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: to be going back so you you escape from a 267 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: grape that you have buried, uh to be killed and 268 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: being pushed to go back to to to me and 269 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: Mark is as being sent him back to the to 270 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: the grape that you escape from from from dying uh. 271 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: So the situation doesn't favor for a safe, dignified, voluntary 272 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: return for the for the Reinga that's Bangladeshi authorities are 273 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: trying to find different innovated modality in different ways how 274 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: to how to create sustainable situations for the including relocations 275 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: of the of the certain number of the of the 276 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: of the Inga populations because the the the the camps 277 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 1: are very congested and the hygiene level in the camp 278 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: are very low and there are a lot of also 279 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: the the the crow on like you know, if a 280 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: million people in a small scale place like that's are 281 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: being being closed, anything could happen anytime, you know. So 282 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: the the the idea was too by the Bangladeshi government, 283 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: which doesn't fall into into the principle of international way 284 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: of doing things, and and relocating some of these refugees 285 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: to an island that has its a new islands. No 286 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: human being has been a lived there, and the island 287 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: has been technically from various technical assessment has identified it's 288 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: not livable by human being yet and because there are 289 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: a lot of like cyclones and and and flats and 290 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: things like that, and it's very far away from millions 291 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: of Bangladesh and and it yeah, so there is risk 292 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: from UH from various perspectives to be able. But despite this, 293 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: Bangladeshi government has built, sheltered this and relocated UH some 294 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: numbers of Ruhinga, and some of them went by their 295 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: own will, seeing that it might be a different and 296 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: and some are being maybe perhaps post and and of 297 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: course there are a certain number of like around close 298 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: to UH five to six thousand people in no man's 299 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 1: land when Bangladesh at the beginning did not open its 300 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: border when Rhinga were feleeing, and so this Norman land 301 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: we're being occupied by the nearby abilities because Bangladesh wouldn't 302 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: open the gate for them and they were stuck in 303 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: in there. So they have it happened to be stuck 304 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: there since the last five years. Uh and the remaining 305 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: gro lives in in in in coxwas a districts of 306 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: Bangladesh in different parts of this this districts. So that's 307 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: the situation. Yeah, that's very well said, and it's some 308 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: people have taken on recently leaving these camps in Bangladesh. 309 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: They've taken on this very risky boat journey, right. I 310 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: think they're going to places like Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, Indonesia, 311 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: And can you explain a little bit about like how 312 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: prevalent that is and of course how incredibly like high 313 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: RISCU it is for people to take that journey. Sure, 314 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: the the situations in the camp is not much different 315 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: than the life that they used to live in in 316 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: Indian mar Despite that, the level of level of human 317 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: rights politions and the treatment that they're having may not 318 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: be the same. But Bangladesh is not a signature to 319 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: refugee conventions and it's not legally obliged to be to 320 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: be following all international norms and protocols to be to 321 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: be hosting the the the the the refugees. But despite 322 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: they have demonstrated the humanity UH and demonstrated the moral 323 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: obligations towards the humanity to to host the million people 324 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: and the then the a million people. Some of them 325 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: has been from V eight and some of them are 326 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: from nine, some of them are from two seventeen. Has 327 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: a very dark future. They are closed in this fence 328 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: camp and the movements are restricted. Access to informations are 329 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: not given like the interne Access to informations are are 330 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: like internet service and things like that has been denied. 331 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: Access to livelihoods are denied and they're not able to 332 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: legally work and solely rely onto to the International Humanity 333 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: and assistem. Access to education has been denied. So the 334 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: young people who are growing in this camp does not 335 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: see a future they will be able to go back 336 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: to me and Mark or if they live here. As 337 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: if you're living a debt, like you know, you don't 338 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: have any any any way forwards seeing a bright fisher 339 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: So there is there is the only they don't have 340 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: the best alternative to be trying to be exploring different 341 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: parts and the only part it's happened to be is 342 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: being created in the past, uh in the past by 343 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: some rhingas taking these boats and making to Malaysia where 344 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: they could do some domestic works and get a refugee 345 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: status and maybe able to work, and and some you're 346 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: lucky enough to be resettled in the third country. A 347 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: small number maybe less than two, less than two or 348 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: three percent of the total total ruinga reladyershire. So the 349 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: journey is very risky. The the the the the boats 350 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: that they're taking, the first the c is very rough 351 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: that they take, and their the infrastructure, what infrastructure that 352 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: they're taking are not uh bill like, they not built 353 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: in a way to be coping with this rough sea 354 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: and rough rough weathers and climates. So many of these 355 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: younger people who make this, less than fifty percent of 356 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: them may make it to the to the destinations. Either 357 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: they die on the sea, or they are being arrested 358 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: by different navies and and and or they're they're being 359 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: jailed by by Mini and mar junta. And in two 360 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,360 Speaker 1: thousand twenty two alone, three thousand, five hundred, more than 361 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: three thousand, five hundred people including children as young as 362 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: two years old, jailed to five years for trying to 363 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: attempt to to go to Malaysia. So this is this 364 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: is what it is happening. So the the life is 365 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: meaningless there. And of course taking this journeymane that you're 366 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: tossing a coin whether you get a tail or you 367 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: get you get head or you got tails, you know, 368 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: and and and so it's like betting your life whether 369 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: if you make it, you're you're life to somewhat level meaningfully, 370 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: if you don't make it your life and it is 371 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: more or less the same that you will live in 372 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: there in there. So that's why these are the push factors, 373 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: and of course they are full factors reunifications. If a 374 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: son has made UH three years ago, five years ago 375 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: to to Malaysia and working in the constructions or or 376 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: or or or or or gardening like levers and and 377 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: you have a remaining family in the camp and you 378 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: don't want to see your family in that situation, and 379 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: you're want to bring your family kids or children's or 380 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: wife and you do that. And lastly, also they are 381 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: growing youth in Malaysia who are who want to marry 382 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: the UA and maintain the culture and language and things 383 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: like that, so they want to have rights bringing from 384 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: the refugi camp and and so they're they're different, uh 385 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: push factor, pull factor as well from from Malaysia, but 386 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: the prime primary factor is the push factor in Indian 387 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: martin in Bangladesh, right, Yeah, and fat reason for people 388 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: to want so yeah, some futures and some chance to 389 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: realize their own life and that goes. So can you 390 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: explain people will probably have seen like I think we're 391 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: recording this on Thursday, UM, which is the date nineteen 392 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: and people would have seen the last couple of days 393 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: maybe videos of fires in No man's land, and they 394 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: will probably have seen like some acronyms, which are a 395 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: lot of acronyms when when you're reading about me m 396 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: I can be very confusing. So could you explain a 397 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: little bit about who these two groups that we've seen, right, 398 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: the A R S A and the R s O, 399 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: who they are and what they what they represent and 400 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: perhaps why these two groups who are nominally Hingia are 401 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: fighting each other. So the in the context of ME 402 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: and MA politics, the ethnic people UH has been fighting 403 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: for decades and and and decades UH with ME and 404 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: Mama lestry and Bama supremacy. Like for larger majority supremacy 405 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: UH at the beginning, they were attempt during the time 406 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: of independency through reconciliations and dial of meaning like without arms. 407 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: But the language again being understood by the by the 408 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: Myanmar larger majority is the language that they speak as well. 409 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: So then ethnic people started to grab the arms and 410 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 1: resist control their territory to UH to attempted to control 411 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: their territory in order to get the equal right and 412 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: decide for their own future, be part of the decisions 413 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: that collectively impact their nations and and basically equal right, 414 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: justice and and and those those things. That's what ethnic 415 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: people are are fighting for and giving their lives and livelihoods. UH. 416 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: It's nothing less than that are nothing more than that's 417 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: very simple. We want to live with dignity freely equally 418 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: with anyone else. And and so many ethnic revolutionary organizations 419 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: forms came came up in different part of Myanmar representing 420 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: different ethnic and Ruhenga also used to be one of 421 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: those back in nineteen fifty UH. After nineteen forty eight 422 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: dependent and nineteen fifty two, Ruheinga is the first one 423 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: to drop the gun in a change of the peace 424 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: with the government saying that we are peace loving people 425 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: and as long as you give us what what what 426 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: our identity and and and we're able to end, we are. 427 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: So then there's a certain period of time that the 428 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: Ruhenga people did not have an arm oppositions group because 429 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: I am someone who believe in non violent movement, but 430 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: in a context like myrmar Again, non violence movement wouldn't 431 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: go anywhere if it's worked seventy years. Uh wouldn't have 432 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: the longest singular war in the world more than seventy years, right, 433 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: So we need to be practical and seeing the reality 434 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 1: like that. So then then nineteen seventy eight, again these 435 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: things happened. And then and the Ruhinga thinks, okay, then 436 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: what we have been promised and what we have were 437 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: we are being told to be promised to be given 438 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: is not given. So we have to grab the gun 439 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: again and and form do as others are doing in 440 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: order to to uh. So, the Rhinga Solidarity Organization has 441 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: been formed and it has been one of the popular organizations, 442 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: getting a lot of popularity from the Rhinga community. And 443 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: then there were issues within the institution that has been growing. 444 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: Of course, uh they were not able to maintain uh 445 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: the the institutional growth and institutional resource managements and then 446 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: the institution collapse and as well as it has to 447 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: do something with that, like you don't have a territory 448 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: like other other other arm oppositions group will will be 449 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: in stations in me and mark where Unga, we're stations 450 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: in Bangladesh and Bangladesh government we're not really supporting enough 451 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: for them to survive with with with the where to 452 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: enhance its military capability and of course there are several 453 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: other other other things and and so then it's disappeared 454 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: in between and then and two thousand fourteen, Uh this guy, 455 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: a guy called um this the guy who is leading 456 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: currently the the the are scar Conds Salvation's Army, who 457 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: was born in Pakistan and grew up in Saudi Arabia. 458 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: His parents, he claimed his parents is Rhingen. Of course 459 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: uh he speak the rhing language. That's mean it's indicated 460 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: that he uh he's and came to to our kind 461 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: of state to mobilize people saying that you needed to 462 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: grab the gun. And this is what then people across 463 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: who have critical thinking skills and did not believe into 464 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: things because it's need to be from and within. And 465 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: someone who does not understand how many and more politics 466 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: look like cannot lead revolutions because revolutionary has to do 467 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: a lot with the with the politics political landscape as 468 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: well in the country. And and uh but however, there's 469 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: a certain number of people who believe in it, in 470 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: follow very small number and uh and inga didn't want 471 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: to again fight or or entry into violence, and they 472 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: just want to live peacefully and and that uh and 473 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: they are resilient to to the to to what they're 474 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: trying to uh gain equally as others. And and so 475 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: then our consolvation servey U E R S. He has 476 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: attacked the post thirty different police forced in two thousand seventeen. 477 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: That's where the collective punishment has been given as a 478 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: result of the ring Ruhinge community. And it's not collective 479 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: collective action. It was individual's action. Certain hundreds of people 480 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: gathered together and attend police force and and and the 481 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: whole rega population has been punished. So then followed by 482 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: that as well, ours has been free st judging themselves 483 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: and then so our our Ruhinga solebrity organizations also pop 484 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: up parallelly back into nineteen and and and of course 485 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: the the ideology that they stent are slightly different from 486 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: one another, and so they they they they that's why 487 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: the clash happened. And and UH ring A Solitary Organization 488 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: think that uh like the the way that ourselves has 489 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: been conducting, and they're responsible. They they for what happened 490 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: to the Ruhinga people as a collectively, genocides and things 491 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: I think like that, creating opportunities for Burmese military to 492 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: to wipe out the Hingen deported through Hinga. And so 493 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: they were this political disagreement between these two groups. And 494 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: this Noman land has been mostly occupied within the Ruhinga 495 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: refugees there some are some members are often trying to 496 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: to enter there and and and stations there and so recently, 497 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: UH the what we have learned from the ground is 498 00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: that our Ringu solidarity organizations UH route out and operations 499 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: to remove them from there and so that the Ringery 500 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: within the normal lands could live peacefully without crimes and 501 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: things like that. And and that's how the fighters started 502 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: and and it's escalated and there were two hundred houses 503 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: being burned on shelters during refugee shelters around two thousand 504 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: five hundred to three thousand people has been uh has 505 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: to be displaced. They were not allowed to enter to 506 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: Bangladesh because normal land is not accessible by neither parties 507 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: and and it's it's just in between. So some of 508 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: them has destroyed the fans toward to Burma and enter 509 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: to their because they are just from the nearby abilities. 510 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: They could see their abilities for five years, but they 511 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: could not go back, so they so they so they 512 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: went back there. But now my Mamalaty is pushing them 513 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: out from from their back to the normal lands. Yeah, 514 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: it's just, yeah, a terrible situation and buildings on the 515 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: only armed groups that state right there are other round groups. 516 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: But this sort of explains it more succinctly, like if 517 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: we get into the other round groups, it gets even 518 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: more complicated. And so I wonder what people listening, obviously 519 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: will they've they've heard a lot about about the conflict 520 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: in Burma, about the various different groups that are being 521 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: persecuted by the Burmese military. How can they help specifically 522 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 1: with this issue? Is is there ways that people can 523 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: can help out? I think we have seen how the 524 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: world came together to help Ukraine people unjustly illegally to 525 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: be attacked by by Russia and and threatening the democratic 526 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,719 Speaker 1: society of the world. And and that has been very 527 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: inspiring appreciated and and and we stand with the Ukrainian 528 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: people and people in Burma. Has the life of the 529 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: value of the life of the people in Burma has 530 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: also there is no difference in you can buy one, 531 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: you know. So we have been the people in Myanmar 532 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: has been fighting for for UH the cost of life 533 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: and livelihoods today with whatever means that they have to 534 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: make this country back to the part of democracy. And 535 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: and so international community should do beyond releasing the statement 536 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: or or or of concerned, and a statement of concern 537 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: maybe maybe may name and shame and may put political 538 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: pressure and political pressure. UH is not the they thing 539 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: that being cared by by the by the by the junta. 540 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: So the the the total enemy of the overall people, 541 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: including ning people, other military and and and they're the 542 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: one who has destroyed this country. And they're beyond who 543 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: is destroying and they're responsible primarily responsible um people institutions 544 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: who wiped out through and who carried all the genocide. 545 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: So I think the international community should do beyond beyond 546 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: sanctions um and Ago and and and respective citizens of 547 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: the country should claim to the real respective government to 548 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: do more for Purmes people and the Runga people, to 549 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: demonstrate the moral obligations toward to the humanity. And in 550 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: twenty century genocides took place while the world was watching, 551 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: and we set in the United Nations back in nineteen 552 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: uh nineteen fifty forty eight that never again. And and 553 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: it's very shameful that it could that the genocide could 554 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: take place in the eyes of eight billion people in 555 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: twenty century and modern age and the world failed to 556 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: protect the Runga this party. There has been compelling stories, 557 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: images and satellitteries and and and still it's continued to 558 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: be so and followed by that crimes against community, war 559 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: crimes has been being committed continually by the by the 560 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: same military that committed genocides. And I think the international 561 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: community we'll have at some point to answer to themselves 562 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: on their beliefs of the humanity. Yeah, Like I think 563 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: the international community, let's happened for too long, and they 564 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: ignored it for too long, and then now it always 565 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: happens right Like it's like for coast Boomerang. The violence 566 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: spreads and gets used in the metropol and it's deeply upsetting. 567 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: What does that support look like from the international community, Like, 568 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: does that mean ah Man pads for PDF? Does it 569 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: mean recognizing the National Unity Government? Like what concrete things 570 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: should the community be doing the international communities should recognize 571 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: there Again, the there are some issues that need to 572 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: be fixed within the the National Unity Government, particularly the 573 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: inclusions of the Ruhinga and other like it's it's positions 574 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: to work to the religious other religious and ethnic minorities, 575 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: particularly those are small, and that need to be fixed. 576 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: And international community should do it in an instant device 577 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: way that okay, you do this and we will do 578 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: this for you, and and and the recognitions come with 579 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: incentive of supporting, uh supporting because it's only legitimate. Whether 580 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: we like the National Unity Government or not, we don't 581 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: have the best alternative to it. It's democratically elected. And 582 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: and there is a lot of issues within the within 583 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 1: the within the within the the National Unity Government, particularly 584 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: when it's come to the rocking issues. So these need 585 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: to be dealt in in National Energy Government. I have 586 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: been consistently advising them to fix this, acting beyond policy 587 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: and and and and showing like state level prioritized agenda 588 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: with concrete milestone to to to the change to word 589 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: to the rocking UH. And of course, parallel to that, 590 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: international community should ensure that big supports are being given, 591 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: being recognized and and and and in order to win 592 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: these revolutions which has shaken the very institution that has 593 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: consumed the resource of the country in various means and 594 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: ways UH. Some UH and one of the strongest institution 595 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: has been shaken by the young people UH with very 596 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: small means that they are very small and time to time, 597 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: very innovative UH and and and and utilizing whatever means 598 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: that they had. An international community should provide support to 599 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: PIA to be first and foremost institutionalizing and and and 600 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: and capacity building enhancing acting upon international stent that we 601 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: are UH way of operating as as a as a 602 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: military group and and of course when you are being 603 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: established as an as a military UH institutions UH and 604 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 1: it is it's being formed by the by the legal 605 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: government of Myanmar. And to support this this this military 606 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: and many many nations are getting military assistant speckage and 607 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: and I think international community should have no problem to 608 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: provide military system package too, of course in a very 609 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: principles and value based with with the value BASTE approach, 610 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: and and and and and let's include the technical support 611 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: to to to set up the mechanisms to heal their 612 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: contable and to ensure the transparencient accountable across the aspectrum. Yeah. Yeah, 613 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 1: I think that's that's very well said. And they do 614 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: tend like if people aren't familiar with the way the 615 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: PDFs have been organized, like they they have been very 616 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: respectful of like norms and laws of war and things 617 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: like that, which obviously that the Barmese military have not. 618 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: And I think and institutions that a group that has 619 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: been with hundred hundred prousands of people, young people with 620 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: no prior military experience and mostly operating in a very 621 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: limited uh to no resource context and being able to 622 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: respect the human rights and human dignity should be recognized. 623 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: You know. There when you you have a gun, and 624 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: there are there are things that happen and need to 625 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: be justified in and and being held accountable for. But 626 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm saying that I'm not saying that it should be 627 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: a lot in any any any kind of misconduct within 628 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 1: the military systems need to be investigated properly and take 629 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: actions upon and held accountable those who get these who 630 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: carried out these actions, and who gave common to carry 631 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: out this action. But the number of cases related to 632 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: the to the to the to the to the PDP 633 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: has been significantly low. And when when it's come to 634 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: the to the human right violations and and it has 635 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: to be zero and even one is too much. But 636 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm saying compared to UH to UH and and and 637 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: I think continued support need to be given there in 638 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: order to to to enhance their capacity to defeat the 639 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: junta plus to defeat it in the principle and value 640 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: based with the principle and value based approach. Yeah, yeah, certainly, 641 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: the definitely like the people we've spoken to, a terr 642 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: holy equipped by any modern standards, incredibly brave and innovative. 643 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: They could certainly do a lot better. They have a 644 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: lot more. Okay, where can people if people want to 645 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: follow along with your work, which is very impressive, how 646 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: can they find you? Do you have like do you 647 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,959 Speaker 1: want to share your Twitter account or a website? Maybe? 648 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: Where can people keep up with you? So? I am 649 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook mostly and my tutor is a 650 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: k MOO two UH and which you can see it's 651 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: with my pictures and and I have put my bio 652 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: as well there. And I'm also also very active on 653 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: the Facebook and what the work related. Most of the 654 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: work that I do, UH are being not everything, but 655 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: some part that international community need to know are being 656 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: portrayed there. And particularly UH the human rights situations related 657 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: to the Ruhinga and Rhinga if it is in Bangladesh 658 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: are being being being shared there in a timely, very 659 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: timely manner. Sometimes even lives you know, it's have now 660 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: and being and uh, yeah, yeah, you've been very good 661 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: at that. And I put your Twitter account and it's 662 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: very informative and it helps me stay informed. So it's 663 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: it's a k m o E two if people are 664 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,359 Speaker 1: searching for it. Thank you so much for giving us 665 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: some of your evening. I really really appreciate your time. 666 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want to get to before 667 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: we finish up now? It's lovely to be part of 668 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: the program, and thank you so much for helping me. 669 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: Once again, thank you very much. It could happen here 670 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: as a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 671 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: from Cool Zone Media, visit our website. Cool zone media 672 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,919 Speaker 1: dot com or check us out on the I Heart 673 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, 674 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated 675 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks 676 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 1: for listening.