1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: So I'm walking into my kitchen doing my morning routine. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make some coffee, and I come in here 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: and here's my lovely wife. What are you doing, honey, 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: I'm making shy, you're making chi? What are you putting 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: in your chi? I'm gonna put some oat milk. And 6 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: what compelled you to put toatally in your chi instead 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: of say, soy milk, which we've had around, or almond 8 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: milk or skim milk, which we also have. Why are 9 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: you putting totally in there? Well, I don't like cow milk, 10 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: and almond milk was too watery, and I needed something 11 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,319 Speaker 1: that made my chie creamy but wasn't too sweet. And 12 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: you sound like a pretty finicky and hard to sell 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: to consumer. To me, I am very picky, and I 14 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: think if you have things that you really enjoy, they 15 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: should be the way you like them. Okay, I'm going 16 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: to pour some coffee into a cup and add a 17 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: little bit of totally to it. That is not a 18 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: complex process, although totally is a complex proposition in a 19 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: lot of ways. It's a interesting light blue carton with 20 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: black and white market lingo all over it. This oat 21 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: milk has a mission statement on the side. The reckless 22 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: pursuit of profits without any consideration for the well being 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: of the planet and the humans that live here should 24 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: be considered a crime. Companies have as much responsibility as 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: politicians for building a society. The rest of the world 26 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: can admire Bigfoot, the legendary Sasquatch is real. Okay, blah 27 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: blah blah. That is quite a mission statement and not 28 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: something I'm used to seeing on the side of any products. 29 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: But now I'm curious. I want to know more about 30 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: this company. I want to know about this little oatally 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: that is claiming to change the world with a carton 32 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: and some liquid and an outlook that is uncompromising and inclusive. 33 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: And I think maybe this podcast has to do some 34 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: digging into the history of otly, So let's get started. 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Crash Course, a podcast about business, political, and 36 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: social disruption and what we can learn from it. I'm 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien. This week's collision totally versus Big Milk. It's 38 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: hard for little companies to take on huge competitors, especially 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: in industry like Big Milk, which has a longstanding grip 40 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: on consumers, diets and lifestyles. It takes attitude to consider 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: yourself a revolutionary force rather than just a carton of milk. 42 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: It takes courage and vision to create a whole new 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: food category, and yet Totally is one of those companies. 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: It's a pioneer, but it is struggled with growth and 45 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: competition recently. Totally Story will make you think about what 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: food you put in your body, how big Milk markets 47 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: it's wares, and whether Totally can live up to its promises. 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: To begin trying to understand Totally Story, I went right 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: to the top to Tony Peterson, the company CEO, and 50 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: everybody Hey Tony. Tony is an engaging suite who had 51 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: no experience in the milk industry when he decided a 52 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: decade ago that Totally was going to take on the world. 53 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: I had two lengthy conversations with Tony over the last year. 54 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: When we chatted most recently, I had at least survival 55 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: on my mind, and I asked Tony to think about 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: both the companies and his own legacies. We are addressing 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: one of the humanity's greatest challenges right which is to 58 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: feed a growing population over time within the planetary boundaries, 59 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: and we are a part of that solution, which means 60 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: that you know, we are at pride a solution to that, 61 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: to change that food system totally. Like other hot startups, 62 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: has been burdened by its own success. It created a 63 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,839 Speaker 1: new food category, oat milk, that invited big competitors onto 64 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: its turf. Its popularity also meant it had trouble keeping 65 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: up with demand, disappointing consumers who found themselves staring at 66 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: empty store shelves. The company's stock and it's standing took hits, 67 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: so how long can it really keep fighting? Every small business, 68 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: no matter how bright it's prospects, needs great management. That 69 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: was true of Otely, which ran through a series of 70 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: CEOs as it built its business in Sweden. In two 71 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, it decided it needed something more, somebody 72 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: who could shake things up. That guy turned out to 73 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: be Tony Peterson. He was definitely an out of the 74 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: box pick. When I was a teenager, I thought I 75 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: was going to be a pulp star sort of. So 76 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: we met my friend when I was eighteen and we 77 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: ended high school. The first thing we did was to 78 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: buy this music studio. Um by no means a musician, 79 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: but I love making music, so I thought I was 80 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: going to do that. So you're super bowlad. So I 81 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: know you're not a musician. Yeah right, so you so no, 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: but Naivey, you had like hopes. Right. You may not 83 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: know who Tony is, but I'm sure you remember his ad. 84 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: It's like milk paid for You loves Tony popped up 85 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: on tens of millions of TV screens sitting at a 86 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: synthesizer in the middle of an oat field with a 87 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: cart and of oatly singing really badly during the Super 88 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: Bowl Well don't come, no No. Everyone seemed to hate 89 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: that ad, just as the company expected. It had printed 90 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: up T shirts and advanced saying I totally hated that 91 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: only commercial. I mean, who does that? Odally does that? 92 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: And Tony and his married band of pranx ers had 93 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: burm ideas about why lots of people who work for 94 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: totally consider themselves rule breakers, including Tony. Oldly was Tony's 95 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: first corporate job. In other words, his first corporate job 96 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: was as a CEO. How often does that happen? Prior 97 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: to that, he was an entrepreneur running successful restaurants and 98 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: retail businesses. You start to question the life you're living, right, 99 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: and you want to achieve things in life besides just work. 100 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: Tony was looking for a calling when someone came calling. 101 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: A head hunter firm called me. I met them in Malma. 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: I went to their office and actually had a company there. 103 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: It was black and white and it was the picture 104 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: of a factory and it said Oatley. I had no 105 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: clue what that was. I just knew that I didn't 106 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: want to run a factory for an American serial company, 107 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: which I thought it was back then. He found out 108 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: was actually Swedish. That was good, so he kept meeting 109 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: with them. He didn't really want the job at first, 110 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: then suddenly he did. The more I learned about it, 111 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: I just realized that, hey, I mean, this is something 112 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: that the whole world needs. You know. It is something 113 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: that's probably relevant to night and nine percent of the population, 114 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: but yet unknown to the nine of the population. Totally 115 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: started in of all places, a Swedish lab run by 116 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: a quiet food scientist named Ricard. As day. Ricard doesn't 117 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: like to talk to journalists, but his brother Bjorne, a 118 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: successful software entrepreneur, popped onto a zoom with me. He 119 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: describes Ricard as a determined perfectionist, the kind of guy 120 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: who winds up inventing an alternative to milk in a 121 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: country that didn't really need an alternative to milk, at 122 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: least not until people realized an alternative existed. And I 123 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: would say the number one design criteria, over reaching everything else, 124 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: was that it had to taste well. I mean, if 125 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: it doesn't taste great, forget it right. And the Aussies 126 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: were close knit family, so as Ricard was iterating trial 127 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: and horror as they gathered at their family cabine in 128 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: northern Sweden and kept experimenting with their recipe until it 129 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: tasted just right, and then they took it to market. 130 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: After their oat milk started selling, the Aussees formed a 131 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: partnership with the known a Titan of the food and 132 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: beverage industry, but that quickly soured due to what Ricard 133 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: describes as the nun's infatuation with consumer testing and an 134 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: aversion to risk. If you ever go out and ask 135 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: consumers what they want, but you're already behind right, you're 136 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: that's not a leadership position. If you want to be 137 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: a leader, you don't ask consumers what they want. You 138 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: surprised them. You give him something they didn't know they wanted. 139 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: Yours a wise man. What he said smacks of an 140 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: apocryphal Henry Ford quote. If I had asked people what 141 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: they wanted, they would have said faster horses or even 142 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: steve jobs. Customers don't know what they want until we've 143 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: shown them. This all rings true to me. Great entrepreneurs 144 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: chart their own courses, and that's exactly what totally would 145 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: go on to do all the way to an initial 146 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: public offering in the US. I didn't go into this thinking, 147 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna do with them villion dollar i 148 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: p O and in a few years and far from it. 149 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: It was Tony Peterson who paved the road to that 150 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: i p O. When he met Bjorn re Garden board 151 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: members during his job interview. Growth was all they cared about, 152 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: and Tony still didn't really know how to deliver growth honest, like, Hey, 153 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: I have no clue. I gotta think I have an idea, 154 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: and but I will like I'm a consumer, I've never 155 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: been the food industry. But I have some ideas of 156 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: how how he can do that, and I do believe 157 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: it's achievable somehow, you know, but just give me some time. 158 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: Can you believe that this company is asking this guy 159 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: to deliver growth, and he's saying, I'm not sure how 160 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: I'll do that. I'll give Tony props for raw honesty, 161 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: but this must have been kind of a weird interview. 162 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: Even Bjorn, who was rooting for Tony new Tony was 163 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: a tough candidate to pitch. I could not present his 164 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: restume to the board right. He was literally unsellable to 165 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: the board. Tony had no idea how the food industry worked, 166 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: and that, as it turned out, made him a great 167 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: candidate and manager. He already knew how to sell things, 168 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: and his lack of experience actually made him fearless. You 169 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: don't really worry about sprinting past the big milk geezers 170 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: if you don't know much about their business. Anyway, Bjorne 171 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: convinced at least directors to take a chance and hire 172 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: Tony precisely because he wasn't out of the box candidate, 173 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: and Tony quickly went about reframing the board's expectations. Instead 174 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,599 Speaker 1: of saying he would hit growth targets in three years, 175 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: he promised to do it in four. The board said fine, 176 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: but had caveats. One was you can only operate in 177 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: the Europe. At the other you can never go against 178 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: cow's milk. Those were their restrictions. In short order, Tony 179 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: went about blowing off these restrictions. I'll come back to 180 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: that later. To help shake up things that totally, Tony 181 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: recruited an old friend, John Schoolcraft, a veteran marketer. He 182 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: made John's chief creative officer. John was just as unusual 183 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: a newcomer to Oatly as Tony. John told me he 184 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: didn't like working in house for companies and says he 185 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: still doesn't trust most corporations. And here he was working 186 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: in house for a corporation. But he was in on 187 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: the joke. He renamed Otle marketing team. I kid you 188 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: not the Department of Mind Control. How can you not 189 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: love these guys. I think some people actually have taken 190 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: that really seriously. What do they think they're doing? But 191 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, us fucking around with with 192 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: what we're what we're given. John was nobody's fool. He 193 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: was completely serious about his marketing philosophy, being as human 194 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: as possible. That meant making a lot of their marketing 195 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: decisions around what they thought was funny. It also meant 196 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: shredding bureaucratic layers, moving quickly and breaking things like one 197 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: of the two rules the board had given them, the 198 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: one that said, don't this big milk and its lovable 199 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: cows lo and behold. When Tony and John Overhauled's website, 200 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: they proclaimed their drink was milk but made for humans. 201 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: We went out big, and I don't know, three four 202 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: weeks later we got seved by the dairy industry. The 203 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: lawsuit alleged that Oatly had sullied the entire Swedish milk 204 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,359 Speaker 1: industry by suggesting that there were healthier and greener alternatives 205 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: to the stuff they were peddling, and the dairy giants 206 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: pointed out what only was selling wasn't actually even milk. 207 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: Tony and John were in Tony's office when the Bible 208 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: sized lawsuit landed with a thunk on a desk. I 209 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: started laughing. I just started laughing. I thought it was 210 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: the funniest thing ever. I looked at It's like, what, 211 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: it's a hundred and seventy four pages. It was. It 212 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: was pretty think and John started to laugh and I 213 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god. All right, okay, let's see 214 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: what that's going to take us. The lawyer came in 215 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: and said, John, I want you to go through this 216 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: entire lawsuit, and I want you to write me explanations 217 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: to every line they object to, because I need to 218 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: know what you were thinking, how you were thinking, how 219 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: you wrote it, et cetera. And it become very less 220 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: funny after that. I think they understood were aware of 221 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: their weaknesses in the concept of Chw's milk, for sure, 222 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: and they've always been aware of it, and they wanted 223 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: to kill things at early stage. And usually when those 224 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: things happened, companies back down because that industry is so big. 225 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: The difference here was that we didn't back down. What 226 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: they did is they forced us to become what I 227 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: think we've become very good at, is any kind of adversity, 228 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: we take it on as a new brief. So it 229 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: was like they sued us, Fine, we'll take the lawsuit, 230 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: we'll put it on the internet so everyone can read it, 231 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: and we'll take out full page ads in all the 232 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: morning papers saying the dairy industry feels really threatened. They 233 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: hit us with this lawsuit. Big Milk prevailed in court, 234 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: totally had to stop calling its product milk, and was 235 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: ordered to stop disparaging the dairy industry. So maybe a 236 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: big win for big milk during OSTI doesn't think so, 237 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: especially since the lawsuit gave otally lots of free publicity. 238 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: They lost their hearts and minds of the consumers. I 239 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: think they learned that it's not a way forward. They 240 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: just have to learn to be competitive and fight on 241 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: equal terms. They can't keep competition through the court. True, 242 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: and in fact, it lost a lot of the consumer 243 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,359 Speaker 1: followings that way, and there was the classic David versus Goliath. 244 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: David was now ready for bigger battles totally wasn't just 245 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: popular in Sweden anymore. It now had fans all over Europe. 246 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: And Tony and John decided to break their board second 247 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: rule by setting their sights across the pond to one 248 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: of the world's biggest milk markets, the United States. That 249 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: was such a like monumental turning point, and then it 250 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: just started to get really fun after that. I'll bring 251 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: you that story after the break. Okay, I'm back in 252 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: my house again, and I'm going to try to trap 253 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: my wife Devon in the kitchen high and I'm going 254 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: to talk to her more about milk, and specifically about 255 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: the memories you had of milk as a kid. You know, 256 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: I remember these little comforting cartons of milk, either in 257 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: blue and white cartons or red and white cartons that 258 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: we would stick a little straw. And when I was 259 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: maybe in kindergarten through second grade, at least maybe third 260 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: and it was part of our lunches every day, and 261 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: and it's a distinct part of my memories as a kid. 262 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: Do you have those memories. I certainly remember the little cartons. 263 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: I was wanted the chocolate milk, not the white milks, 264 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: and like white milk, and I do remember hearing that 265 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: it was the healthiest thing you could have. You have 266 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: to have milk every day. And I don't remember getting 267 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: a lot of milk to drink as a kid, but 268 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: I do remember it like the school lunches, and I 269 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: remember it for cereal. I never really liked drinking it though. 270 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: Do you remember like it was healthy though? Like do 271 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: you remember like it was cordy or healthy? Have milk. 272 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: It's the only way you could have strong bones and 273 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, good eyesight and good skin. I mean you 274 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: had to drink milk. That was what you did. What 275 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: I didn't really knows a little kid was that great 276 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: forces were at work making sure I got that milk 277 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: including the president of the unit at it states, I 278 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: want to say a few words this morning about a 279 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: very important subject to us all, and that is milk. 280 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: I've long been convinced that milk is an important aid 281 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: to good health. This has led me to direct that 282 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: milk be served in every White House meal from now on. 283 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: That's JFK speaking in nineteen sixty two at a national 284 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: conference on milk and nutrition. I mean, how often do 285 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: you hear presidents going out of their way to sing 286 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: the praises of food. I hope more and more children 287 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: we'll be able to receive school milk and luncheon's in 288 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: the day ahead. The coolest president of the jet set era, 289 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: the same leader who worried about nuclear annihilation and winning 290 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: the space race. He's also at the most boring conference imaginable, 291 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: and he's hawking milk. My twenty one century years find 292 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: that twentieth century speech to be alternatively hokey and charming. 293 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: Everybody had clarity. Amrikans believed back then that milk was 294 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: a power food for them and their kids. They made 295 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: it a staple of school lunches. Milk was also marketed 296 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: ubiquitously in the decades before and after JFK gave that speech, 297 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: making it a fixture and consumers minds. Here's a TV 298 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: at from the nineteen fifties. Oh, I'll command all night 299 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: stuff ditched to drink at least three glasses of delicious 300 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: Bardon's milk each day. Milk was at rare food that 301 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: had become almost mythic in American life, nutritional legends and 302 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: an industry had sprung up around it. Totally would be 303 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: taking on all of that when it came to America. 304 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: It would also discover that once it began trying to 305 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: pop some of milk's balloons, it would become a target itself. 306 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: To understand what toatally was up against, I needed to 307 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: learn more about how plain old cow's milk came to 308 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: be so celebrated. Here. Vitamins played a big role. The 309 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: scientists who discovered vitamin B made milk one of his specialties, 310 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: winning the allegiance of the dairy industry. They helped fund 311 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: some of his research. The scientist was happy to return 312 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: the favor, publicly praising milk as the greatest of all 313 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: protective foods. Kendra Smith Howard is a history professor at 314 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: Sunny Albany and has written extensively about milk. The notion 315 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: that milk was a pure and complete food what at 316 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: the time was called Nature's perfect food. Has sugars, that 317 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: has proteins, it has fats, and now it also has 318 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: this vitamin content. All of those components really helped put 319 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: milk in a positive nutritional light in the first few 320 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: decades of the twenties century. Kendra said this kind of 321 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: research helped create a boom in milk sales. Washington also 322 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: fell under milk spell. Dairy farmers were in almost every state, 323 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: and that translated into political cloud and protection in Congress. 324 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: Washington also put milk at center stage by including it 325 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: in the federal school lunch programs it introduced in the 326 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: nineteen forties. So that again adds a stamp of endorsement 327 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: and familiarity with milk that not all products received, and 328 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: so I think that also elevates milks sort of nutritional 329 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: credibility in the eyes of many Americans. The U s 330 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: d A also marketed milk as one of four basic 331 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: and Essential food groups. I don't know how one white 332 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: liquid makes for an entire food group, but the campaign 333 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: worked whole milk consumption in the US sword in the 334 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: first half of the twentieth century, but then began a 335 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: steady decline after that as alternatives became more popular and 336 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: as eating habits changed, Consumptions of all forms of fluid 337 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: milk is now about a third of what it was 338 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: at its peak. In to chat about the current state 339 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: of the milk business, I called Paul Zimnisky. He's the 340 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: executive vice president of Global Innovation at Dairy Management, Inc. 341 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: A trade association that receives some funding from the government. 342 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: He says the sational milk business still stands strong, and 343 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: he compared it to another industry facing competitive threats. When 344 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: you look at the automotive space right where you've had 345 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: the evolution from like the F one fifty. Now you've 346 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: got the Broncos coming in, you've got the electric cars 347 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: coming in, But the F one fifty still drives the category. 348 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: Flood milk is still households despite the massive innovation in 349 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: the coffee space, massive innovation and water, and what about 350 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: massive innovation and milk alternatives like goadly. I think everything 351 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: is a competitor, but it's not a nutritional threat. Maybe 352 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: that's the case, but milk so own nutritional value has 353 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: never been as robust as the industry would have you believe. 354 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: I turned to Marrion Nestle, a noted nutritionist and former 355 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: public health professor at New York University, for her thoughts. 356 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: You know, everybody kind of assumed that you have to 357 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: eat dairy products, and that you have to have two 358 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: or tree serving today of dairy products or you're going 359 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: to be missing out on essential nutrients. But the idea 360 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: that milk was an essential food was really not backed 361 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: up by research. You can have a perfectly healthy diet 362 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: without having dairy products at all. Is Totally any better? 363 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: Some critics have complained that Totally is high in sugar 364 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: and is not a magical nutrition drink. Totally thanks otherwise, 365 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: and complains that some regulators even forbid it from promoting 366 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: its benefits. We can't even its sweet and say that 367 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: oats are good. We are not entitled to say that, 368 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: even though that's true and that everybody knows it, we 369 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: are not allowed to say even that. Now. We as 370 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: a company, we conducted eight clinical studies so far that 371 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: is related to the fibers. So we actually do have 372 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: a claim in Europe stating that if you drink three 373 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: glasses of Oatally, it's healthy for you. All of these 374 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 1: disputed health claims aside, milk remains a huge market, with 375 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: yearly sales of about twenty seven billion dollars. Competition for 376 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,719 Speaker 1: shelf space and grocery stores is fierce, with big retailers 377 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: like Walmart Bottlings selling their own milk. When Odly came 378 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 1: on the scene in the US just five years ago, 379 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: alternatives weren't considered a realistic business for the milk giants, 380 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: much less a competitive threat. Grocery stores looked at it 381 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: in the same way. Odally decided it's best move would 382 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: be to blow off grocery stores entirely. To learn more 383 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: about what convinced the company to take that risk, I 384 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: drove down to Millville, New Jersey, to an Oatly plant. There. 385 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: It was on a quiet road, just off the highway. 386 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,959 Speaker 1: It wasn't at all what I expected. I grew up 387 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: in northern Illinois and we would go on family trips 388 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: to Wisconsin, so I'm used to seeing the big milk 389 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: casks silos that you see it dairy farms. So from 390 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: the outside this looks like sort of like a dairy farm, 391 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: except there's no cows. There's no barns. There's no standard 392 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: farmhouses or any other stuff that you see around old 393 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: school farms. This is all brand spanking new stainless steel 394 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: and warehousing. I walked inside and med Mike, Hi, I'm Mike, 395 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: see you. Thanks for giving us your tony yeah pleasure in. 396 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: Mike messrs Smith is at least president of North American Business, 397 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: and I wanted to talk to him to understand how 398 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: the oat Milk gets made. The story of how oatles 399 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: David has been able to take on the big milk 400 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: Goliath is still a hard one for Mike to wrap 401 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: his head around. We're making several hund thousand liters a day. 402 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: That was a number that, if you had asked me 403 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: years ago, would have been beyond my comprehension, to be honest, 404 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: because we started with literally ten coffee shops that were 405 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: carrying our product. Back in I was the third employee 406 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: in the in the US organization. I used to carry 407 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: oat Milk around in my backpack, um around New York City, 408 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: trying to get coffee shops to carry the product. Coffee shops, 409 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: not grocery stores, because the real coffee gormands are in 410 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: the shops, not the stores. And Mike, like his boss, Tony, 411 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: knew they had to enchant barista's. Tony had seen that 412 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: strategy in action once before. Back in Sweden, I had 413 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: restaurants and bars, and how liquor companies are building their 414 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: brand is behind the bars. That's how you build brands. 415 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: Because advertising has been very limited, especially in Sweden, a 416 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: liquor company wouldn't just spend money on billboards and commercials. 417 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: They would go talk to the people serving the drinks, bartenders. 418 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: They would convince bartenders that their product was the best, 419 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: and bartenders would recommend their liquor to customers. In at 420 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: least case, they targeted barista's instead of bartenders. We knew 421 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: one thing that the barista community has such a high 422 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: integrity when it comes to quality and what they want 423 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: to serve. They simply want to make the best coffee ever, 424 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: So you can't go in there and sell share. If 425 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying, you have to sell the best. 426 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: You can't you even tell them that I want to 427 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: sell this to you. Don't think we could do knock 428 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: on the doors and tell them, hey, if you want 429 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: please try to stand let us know what you think 430 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: about it. And we used people that were from this 431 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: community to approach these coffee shops, and that's how we 432 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: all started. That's where Mike came in. His team in 433 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: New York City would fill their bags with outly cartains, 434 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: get on the subway and visit coffee shops. And the 435 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: key thing is that we weren't going in there to 436 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: try to sell anything. There was a need, a market 437 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: need for these high end especially coffee shops who have 438 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 1: gone to extensive lengths of sourcing this incredible coffee from 439 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: all these incredible origins, roasted to perfection ground for these drinks, 440 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: and yet they had more and more people coming into 441 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: their coffee shops looking for plant based options. And you 442 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: know they don't want to sway milk on. The milk 443 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: is too thin, it doesn't foam, it doesn't do justice. 444 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: And so when you went in there, did they look 445 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: at you like you guys were crazy? Like what was 446 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: the pitch? I mean it was literally like you take 447 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: the carton out, like we worked for this oat milk company, 448 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: do you want to try it? And like you don't 449 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: have big power point decks or binders of things, you 450 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: don't have coupons. Literally the litmus test for success is 451 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: take the carton. We'd order a couple of drinks and 452 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: then they would try to say, wow, like that's better. 453 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: This was the summer of there weren't any other oat 454 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: milks on the market. Totally was really the only option 455 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: out there. And I think those initial reactions with such 456 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: a you know, before we had built factories, before we 457 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: had done any of these other pieces, the validation of 458 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:41,719 Speaker 1: seeing the kind of immediate response from very educated, high 459 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: barrier to adoption like customer base was thrilling for us. 460 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: So the baristas were on board. Totally started being served 461 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: in specialty coffee shops. The first phase of the guerrilla 462 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: marketing was complete. The next phase is probably familiar to 463 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: anyone listening in a major city like New York. Were 464 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, oly d started popping up in the strangest 465 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: of places. The first thing we did is what we 466 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: call like the Island of Misfit Toys strategy. Well that's 467 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: John Schoolcraft again, the head of at least department of 468 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: mind control. If you've never heard of the Misfit Toys strategy, 469 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: you're not alone. The media agencies John spoke to were 470 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: also confused. They're like, what it's like, what is the 471 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: media that nobody wants. You got a guy down in 472 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: the basement booking media and no one calls him anymore. 473 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: So he's just sitting down there alone. And they were like, um, 474 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: no one wants to buy the bus fronts, and so 475 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: he said, okay, we'll take them all totally put advertisements 476 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: on the front of nine thousand buses in New York 477 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: City in l A. If the fronts of the buses 478 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: in New York are different, you'll never notice them, but 479 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: if you have them all. And there were thirty different headlines, 480 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: and people walked around and collected them, like what's the 481 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: next one, saying I'm I've seen that one. So, whether 482 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: people were learning about totally from their local barista or 483 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: watching the fronts of busses as they whizzed by, the 484 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: company was building a customer base and it took off 485 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: very quickly, way faster than we ever anticipated and were 486 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: read out of open Milk. That was just the beginning 487 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: of at least production was totally was growing incredibly fast, 488 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: and it seemed like oat milk was everywhere, but it 489 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: was also nowhere. They had incredible production snaffoos that would 490 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: stifle its growth against competitors, but investors didn't necessarily see 491 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: that as a problem at this point. Totally. It built 492 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: a market for a product that didn't exist, and it 493 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: was popular, So of course all signs pointed toward a 494 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: natural next step taking this private company public. I'll bring 495 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: you that story after the break. Okay, I'm ending into 496 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: my kitchen for a third and five time at least 497 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: for this podcast, not in my life, because we sort 498 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: of live in our kitchen, but I'm coming in here 499 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: again to grill my wife Devon. The thing I want 500 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: to ask you about now is how you first became 501 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: aware of totally, Like when did it land in your consciousness? 502 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: I think I first heard about it right before COVID 503 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: or right when COVID hit. I was always looking for 504 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: a really good milk substitute, because for certain things, I 505 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: just think you need something that's like milk, but I 506 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: didn't want to actually buy milk. And did you talk 507 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: to friends about it? Did you see it on store shelves? 508 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: Did you become aware of it through ads? Like how 509 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: did you become aware totally? Specifically? I think I saw 510 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: it on the store shelves after a friend mentioned it 511 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: to me. Actually think it was. My aunt mentioned it 512 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: to me and then she said this was the best 513 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: she'd found, and so I went and found it and 514 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: I started using it. And then during COVID, I noticed 515 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: it was really hard to find, and sometimes I would 516 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: go to the store and it wasn't there, like there'd 517 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: be a whole shelf and it would be empty. So 518 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: I knew then to stock up every time I found it. 519 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: Devin wasn't alone totally. Was getting a lot of attention 520 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: by the time the pandemic hit, and it had some 521 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: big time investors Oprah Winfrey, Natalie Portman, Jay z and 522 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: the former CEO of Starbucks, Howard Schultz. They all backed ontly, 523 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: but Ontally needed more capital to keep growing, so Tony 524 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: decided to take the next step and go public. We 525 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: need the proceeds to expand our our production capacities across 526 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: these three continents. If you think about what we do, 527 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: we'll build demand across three continents successfully, you know, multiple 528 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: channels from niche to mass and generating a demand that 529 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: and we had that we haven't been able to supply. 530 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: That's Tony on Bloomberg TV on MA when at least 531 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: I p O value the company at ten billion dollars. 532 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: Tony was elated, but also cautious. This is just the beginning. 533 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: This is this is the beginning of long, long journey 534 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: and incredible journal and massive opportunity. You know. So I 535 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: am so happy to sit here with you guys today 536 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: and just you know, being where we are. But it 537 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: is about and long term. Totally debuted at seventeen dollars 538 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: a share. By the end of the day, the stock 539 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: had jumped over twenty two dollars. A couple of weeks later, 540 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: it reached what, in hindsight, turned out to be its 541 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: peak nearly twenty nine. Let's take a minute to reflect 542 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: on when all of this was going on. May You 543 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: may have been preoccupied with the buzz of vaccine availability 544 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: more than a year into the pandemic, but Wall Street 545 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: was buzzing with I P O s. It was a 546 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: record breaking year for companies going public. The market was 547 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: bubbling in this gold rush. Yet Tony's visions for at 548 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: least future seemed within reach, especially because investors were swooning 549 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: over plant based foods. Totally needed more capital to take 550 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: on the milk giants, and they were going to get it. 551 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: It raised one point four billion dollars on I p 552 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: O Day to work toward that goal. We're positioning ourselves 553 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: to take a global leadership. This is Tony again on 554 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg TV. We determined to lead this revolution and forward 555 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: and it will evolve. You're right, it will evolve, and 556 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: we are going to lead that. Do you know if 557 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: you think about what we do here, beating the demand 558 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: across the free continents, with the organization and supply and everything, 559 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: we are positions to take this to the next level. Well, 560 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: I feel pretty good about it, to be honest, Tony 561 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: felt good about it. But the stock market is a 562 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: fickle suitor. Over the next year, many young companies the 563 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: market once adored fell out of favor. Totally was one 564 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: of them. In May, just a year after that hot 565 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: I p O Otally shares had plunged to three dollars 566 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: and sixty six cents, not even enough to buy one 567 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: cart and a Votely, the stock price has only gone 568 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: down from there. Shortly before we published this podcast, the 569 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: stock was hovering around two dollars a share. Some of 570 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: that was beyond at least control. You have to remember 571 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: we made the I p O hitting a series of 572 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: macro events that was and still is unprecedented. I haven't 573 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: heard of any other company with own production at that 574 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: scale and growth rate making an I p O and 575 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: then immediately hitting those types of events. Ever, there was 576 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: quite a roster of macro events, a pandemic, putin invading Ukraine, 577 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: soaring inflation, buckling supply chains. Despite those headwinds, Tony doesn't 578 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: have any regrets about going public, but he has his 579 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: work cut out for him. This was the platform for 580 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: us to become a global brand, and the appeal was 581 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: part of that. But eventually you have to be profitable, 582 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: right You don't just want to run a high world 583 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: company forever and not ever make money. You have to 584 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: do that. Going public not only subjected only to the 585 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: vagaries of the stock market, it invited a whole new 586 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: set of big investors, some of whom improved controversial. The 587 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: big private equity firm Blackstone and a Chinese state agency 588 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: took stakes in only totally fans of the investments represented 589 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: a betrayal of the company's core values. Blacks Own was 590 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: seen as environmentally hostile, and China was seen as politically oppressive. 591 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: Tony disagrees most small companies that want to go larger 592 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: have to tap public markets with all of their complexities, 593 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: including outside investors. None of that, he says, has disrupted 594 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: Atle's mission. We can't live in an isolated, parallel universe, right, 595 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: We live in this system. So this is about how 596 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: do we bring everybody on board, how do we make 597 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: everybody understand? But more importantly, what are the mechanism for change? Right? 598 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: So to me, it's always about impact for us, it's 599 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: also about education. What does sustainability mean? What can company do? 600 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: And if we're not alone in this, but we are 601 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: part of educating authorities and stakeholders about what is sustainability 602 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: and how do you actually make an impact, which is 603 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: the most important thing. Atal has had another challenge finnicky consumers. 604 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: The truth is is that olt milk is no longer 605 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: as like sexy as it was a couple of years 606 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: ago when it first arrived. They are no longer the 607 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: only oat milk at the supermarket. This is Dina Shankar. 608 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: She covers food and agriculture here at Bloomberg, and she 609 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: says that after the initial hype around totally, the market 610 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: became saturated with different kinds of oat milk, and oatally 611 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 1: couldn't keep up there was a time when people were 612 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: reportedly anecdotally, you know, going from one coffee shop to 613 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: the next looking for Totally. I don't think people are 614 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: going to do that anymore, but especially because the coffee 615 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: shop might not have only, but they'll have some omal 616 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: and so you'll say, okay. Sure. Dina thinks Oatally felt 617 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: short because they got too big, too fast and lost focus. 618 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: The company was more obsessed with making sure people knew 619 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: about Totally rather than ensuring there was enough. Oatly only 620 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: captured about of the retail sales in the oat milk market, 621 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: so only a quarter of the very same market it created. It. 622 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 1: Every time a customer walks into the supermarket and can't 623 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: get Totally and buy something else, they're losing a sale. 624 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: So they're losing market share. They had the entire market, 625 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: and then they have just been losing it ever since then. 626 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: The clock is ticking to a certain extent on them. 627 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: How long is it before investors and competitors make them fold. 628 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: I wouldn't put like a deadline on Totally. What I 629 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: would say is that Totally has benefited from being able 630 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: to rely on the COVID excuse. Our supply chain problems 631 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: are from covid our factory isn't up and running because 632 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: of the pandemic. I think that that excuse is basically 633 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: has pretty much run its course. By the way, meeting 634 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: demand is antally only problem. As the company grew, it 635 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: also came under fire for sometimes not being as environmentally 636 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: friendly as it claimed to be. Wall Street Journal article 637 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: recounted how local officials who live near Least New Jersey plant, 638 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: we're outraged about how much wastewater the plant was producing, 639 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: totally ended up trucking it's runoff out of the state 640 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: for a while as a solution, and Mike mr. Smith 641 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: told me the company has since gone out of its 642 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: way to reassure the locals and now we've invested millions 643 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: of dollars in that on site wastewater treatment facility and 644 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: it's discharges directly to the city system with no issue. 645 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: When I asked Mike about that Journal article, he didn't 646 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: dispute its conclusions, but also pointed out how hard it 647 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,959 Speaker 1: is to start businesses from scratch, building things that didn't 648 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: exist before. It's really hard, and I think that there 649 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: can be elements of humility and transparency and trying to 650 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: build something that you know it doesn't always go exactly 651 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: as we plan, and we have to continue to push, 652 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: so at least pushing forward. And it says it's finally 653 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: sorting out its production problems. It forged a partnership with 654 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: an experienced packaging company Yeah yeah Foods in an effort 655 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: to streamline its operations. Maybe it'll even be well to 656 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 1: get ahead of demand. The clock is certainly ticking, though. 657 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,720 Speaker 1: You see, most small companies get a lot of attention 658 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: at their I p o s, but then disappear. It's 659 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: a fact of life. When a company is successful, it's 660 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: not usually because it stayed true to itself. Wall Street 661 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: changes a company it has to. There's a ton of 662 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: pressure from big investors and from the extra media attention. 663 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: Oftentimes companies cave. They'll bring in plain vanilla people to 664 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 1: run the company safely, which is all well and good 665 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: for some playing vanilla companies, but that's not what makes 666 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: Totally Totally. It's known for its eye catching cartons and 667 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: its quirky ads for the department of mind control, and 668 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 1: it's avoidance of bureaucratic barriers. Can everything that makes Totally 669 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: fun and interesting survive. Wall Street can Tony. They are 670 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: going to be challenges along the way, and we face 671 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: criticism in the past. That's never detured us from the mission. 672 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: What is teaching us is resilience. And no one knows 673 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: more about the positives of this company than our own team, right, 674 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: our wins, our successes, our benefits, what we actually do 675 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: within the company, the pioneering approach we take to challenge 676 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: throwing our way. You know, we're going to continue to 677 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: have that approach, stay true to our mission and have 678 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: true ambitions to try to do the right things, knowing 679 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: that we will never be a perfect company because you 680 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: can't be that, but to have genuine ambitions about wanting 681 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: to do good and that is then converted to action 682 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: that we're going to stay true too. And I know 683 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: one customer who plans to stay true to Tony's Oat milk. 684 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: So do you consider yourself a loyal totally drinker. Yeah, 685 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: I do, and I'm not loyal to a lot of things, 686 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: but this is the one thing that really works for 687 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: me and I know what I'm getting when I buy it, 688 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: So totally forever, totally forever unless they change the formula. 689 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,720 Speaker 1: Don't change the formula. What if it just can't stay 690 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 1: afloat so to speak, in this brutal American consumer market. 691 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: Is there not enough trouble in the world? Um, I 692 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I'd keep searching for something else 693 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: or find the next best thing, but it won't be 694 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: the same. Here at crash Course, we believe the collisions 695 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: can be messy, impressive, challenging, surprising, and always instructive. In 696 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: today's Crash Course, I learned that being a quirky, daring 697 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: pioneer can be a magical, exciting thing. Being a pioneer 698 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: is also perilous. Your own growth and popularity can consume you, 699 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: and holding on to your identity and your mission can 700 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: be really, really hard. Let's see what oatly has in 701 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: store for us. What did you learn? We'd love to 702 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: hear from you. You can tweet at the Bloomberg Opinion 703 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: handle at Opinion or me at Tim O'Brien using the 704 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: hashtag Bloomberg crash Course. You can also subscribe to our 705 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: show wherever you're listening right now and leave us a 706 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: review that helps more people find the show. This episode 707 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: was produced by the indispensable Anna Mazarakis and me. Our 708 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: supervising producers Magnus Hendrickson and We had editing help from 709 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: Samantha Story, Katie Boyce, Jeff Grocott, and Mike Nietza. Blake 710 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: Maple says, our sound engineering and our original theme song 711 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 1: was composed by Luis Gara. I'm Tim O'Brien. We'll be 712 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: back next week with another Crash course