Speaker 1: Hot dish was once described to me as just every
Speaker 1: leftover in the fridge dumped into a castrole dish and
Speaker 1: baked together. Not necessarily. Not necessarily, I just threw some
Speaker 1: names in the hat. I got a little toxic in
Speaker 1: that Jenny for a while, proving I was og metal
Speaker 1: and a virgin. Good morning, degenerate anglers, Welcome to Bent,
Speaker 1: the podcast that melted at the top of your mister
Speaker 1: buddy heater when we borrowed it last ice fishing season
Speaker 1: and still haven't bought you a new one. I'm Joe Surmelli,
Speaker 1: Miles Nulty, and straight up, man, you gotta be careful
Speaker 1: when you're toasting sandwiches on your mister buddy heaters. So
Speaker 1: that is an actual public service that we're offering you truth.
Speaker 1: And if anybody out there is watching or has been
Speaker 1: watching the fur Hat Ice Tour on our YouTube channel,
Speaker 1: you know that Janie and Mark Norquist had fun spearing
Speaker 1: whitefish and pike in Minnesota. But what you don't see
Speaker 1: is that is the behind the scenes carnage. We permanently
Speaker 1: damaged a borrowed space heater when we put our foil
Speaker 1: wrap sandwiches on it, and the foil deflected the heat
Speaker 1: right up into the plastic frame on that heater. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I got a little toxic in that Jenny for a while,
Speaker 1: so I don't do that. I was not part of
Speaker 1: this production, but weren't. Weren't you the producer the producer
Speaker 1: of that episode? I was. I was the producer of
Speaker 1: the episode. I was the one who put the sandwiches
Speaker 1: on the heater. H Yeah, so entirely your fault, then,
Speaker 1: entirely my fault, guest, Well, that was a rookie move.
Speaker 1: You should have known better. Any real hard water guy
Speaker 1: brings the aftermarket grill attachment for the heater. And I'm
Speaker 1: not a real hardwater guy, but even I know that
Speaker 1: it's standard ice fishing here these days. I know that now,
Speaker 1: all right, Like you learned, I learned my lesson, and
Speaker 1: I realized straight up, I have so much to learn.
Speaker 1: Still want to come to ice fishing. But the one
Speaker 1: thing I know for sure is that you absolutely cannot
Speaker 1: go out on the ice without a thermis of coffee. Ah,
Speaker 1: that is true. And if you're gonna drink coffee, you
Speaker 1: might as well drink good coffee. Okay. This podcast is
Speaker 1: entirely fueled by black Rifle Coffee. Whether we're sitting over
Speaker 1: a hole staring at a flasher and willing one of
Speaker 1: those thick red lines to appear, or we're sitting in
Speaker 1: front of a computer pressing control ought delete because doom
Speaker 1: Froze made a shoot out again, We've probably got a
Speaker 1: cup of Black Rifle in our hands right now. I
Speaker 1: kind of can't get enough of the just black roast,
Speaker 1: which I get delivered right to my door through Black
Speaker 1: Rifle Coffee subscription service. Super convenient, and yeah, if you're
Speaker 1: coffee drinker, I highly recommend signing up. Yep, just go
Speaker 1: to Black Rifle Coffee dot com backslash meat Eater to
Speaker 1: get started, and if you use the promo code meat
Speaker 1: Eater at checkout, they'll give you a twenty percent discount
Speaker 1: just for having good taste in podcasts, Yes, indeed they will.
Speaker 1: All right, getting back to the show, it is time
Speaker 1: for trivia. But I do feel the need to publicly
Speaker 1: admit that that story about melting the barred heater, like
Speaker 1: we were just making it up some shit to say
Speaker 1: that was completely true. All of that happened, and in fact,
Speaker 1: the heater in question actually belong to our trivia guest today. Okay,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't I don't know why she keeps
Speaker 1: agreeing to come on the show. Ah, this is why
Speaker 1: I can't have nice things. Yeah, we still haven't replaced
Speaker 1: the heat her. Just for the record, you gotta be
Speaker 1: highly skilled for these shows. You understand that you're well
Speaker 1: versed there. You're very smart man. All right, So we've
Speaker 1: reached the part of the show where we call smart
Speaker 1: and talented people and ask them stupid questions. Joining us
Speaker 1: today is angler hunter and biologist Mandy Yerick. Mandy, how's
Speaker 1: it going? It's going, guys, Thanks for the call. Oh,
Speaker 1: you know, these are always fun for us. Are you
Speaker 1: Are you ready to play some trivia? I'm ready to
Speaker 1: play some trivia? All right, let's do it now. If
Speaker 1: I remember correctly from a conversation you and I had
Speaker 1: in your garage, which is a better man cave than
Speaker 1: any man cave I've ever been in. For the record,
Speaker 1: you had a hand in naming some of the soft
Speaker 1: plastic baits for thirteen fishing, right, yes, yes, so so
Speaker 1: like maybe say the bubble butt or the Chiro or
Speaker 1: the my name's Jeff, all infused with donkey sauce. You're
Speaker 1: you're to blame for all that, not necessarily. Not necessarily,
Speaker 1: I just threw some names in the hat. Oh all right,
Speaker 1: so you're not You're not going to own any of those,
Speaker 1: at least not publicly. Nope, all right, Well, today I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you a list of ridiculously named soft
Speaker 1: plastic baits that are not made by thirteen Fishing. Your
Speaker 1: job is to correctly identify which one is fake. All right,
Speaker 1: So all of these except for one is an actual
Speaker 1: soft plastic bait, and you gotta figure out which one
Speaker 1: is is not real? You got it? I got it,
Speaker 1: all right? So is it a vibra grub, B, shrill Pin, C, Jiggilator, D,
Speaker 1: Bearded crazy Legs, chigger craw or E Machette. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go with a You're gonna go with a. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think you think the vibra grub does not exist. No,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, No, the vibra grub is a real bait.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be in so much trouble for getting that wrong.
Speaker 1: All of those except for the jiggle Lator actually or
Speaker 1: real baits. And uh, I'm just gonna give everyone a
Speaker 1: hint out there. Don't look up jiggle Lator online. You
Speaker 1: won't like what you find. Mandy, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: being a good sporting plan. Always good to talk to you. Thanks, guys,
Speaker 1: gotta say man, Mandy remains our reigning smooth Moves champion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with the best and by best, I mean worse guide
Speaker 1: story we've gotten yet. If you haven't heard that one,
Speaker 1: go check out episode six. I believe it was the podcast.
Speaker 1: Bring an extra bottle of bleach and a few rolls
Speaker 1: of Sharman though. Okay, so you know what we're talking about,
Speaker 1: and go watch the fur Hot Ice Tour on the
Speaker 1: Media YouTube channel. You can watch Mandy try to teach
Speaker 1: Jannis how to ice fish for wallet and explain once
Speaker 1: and for all the difference between hot dish and castroll.
Speaker 1: Inquiring minds want to know. Hot dish was once described
Speaker 1: to me as just every leftover in the fridge dumped
Speaker 1: into a castle dish and baked together from Hamburger, Helper
Speaker 1: kung pound chicken in it goes that may be true,
Speaker 1: but I, like Mande, will go to the mat with
Speaker 1: you and kick your ass and tell you that there's
Speaker 1: more to it than that and win because I really
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm talking about anyway, We're gonna transition
Speaker 1: now from hot coffee, ice cleats, bibs, and tiny poles
Speaker 1: to cold beer, flip flops, board shorts, and long rods.
Speaker 1: And look, every year around this time, I personally start
Speaker 1: feeling the itch for some saltwater flats fishing and warm climes,
Speaker 1: and I inevitably think about the small island nation of
Speaker 1: the Bahamas. It's been so long since I've been there.
Speaker 1: I long for andros and adimony man Bimonys, the Sleeper,
Speaker 1: by the way, big bones. But the Bahamas defined saltwater
Speaker 1: flats fishing as we know it. The country controls the
Speaker 1: largest expanse of saltwater flats in the world, and it's
Speaker 1: built an entire multi billion dollar industry around bonefish, a
Speaker 1: species that, if you think about it, right, not so
Speaker 1: long ago, was practically worthless totally. Locals caught them just
Speaker 1: to sell to big gamers, as Marlin bates like, that's
Speaker 1: what they back in the day. They trolled them from
Speaker 1: our imagine that, right. But also they're super flashy and reflective,
Speaker 1: so I kind of get it. But that was in
Speaker 1: the not so distant past. Anyway. In this week's Freaking
Speaker 1: Philistine segment, where we encourage all of you to get
Speaker 1: out there and read actual words that have been printed
Speaker 1: on actual paper. Miles is going to tell you about
Speaker 1: a book that traces the history of that fishery and
Speaker 1: explains how it all came about. What's fasting. It's a
Speaker 1: guy who doesn't care about books or interesting films and things,
Speaker 1: an unfasting. The great thing about poetry is that sometimes
Speaker 1: you can get lost in it. When a poem works,
Speaker 1: it resonates past logic. You lose yourself in a chord
Speaker 1: of language, of a perfect economy of words that hits
Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't necessarily make sense, but it
Speaker 1: feels good. You might not understand what's going on, but
Speaker 1: you enjoy it. The problem with poetry is sometimes you
Speaker 1: can get lost in it. Without a story or characters
Speaker 1: to hold onto, a poem can feel like this chaotic jumble,
Speaker 1: a dartboard of language, a monkey with a dictionary, And
Speaker 1: when that happens, words that might make you feel something
Speaker 1: turn into ash and slip through your fingers. Chris Dombrowski
Speaker 1: primarily writes poetry, but his book Body of Water is
Speaker 1: narrative nonfiction. On its face, it's just a damn good
Speaker 1: fishing story, a Rocky Mountain fishing guide gets obsessed with
Speaker 1: a certain saltwater fish and goes on to spend time
Speaker 1: and money that his young family just can't afford pursuing
Speaker 1: that fish. Of course, all of us who genuinely understand
Speaker 1: pursuing fish know that it's never just about the fish,
Speaker 1: and as readers followed Dombrowski onto sun soaked flats, chasing
Speaker 1: another hook up, another banshee howling run, we get far
Speaker 1: more than we might have expected. This book provides an
Speaker 1: unauthoritative account of the Bahamian bonefish industry through the cataract
Speaker 1: milked eyes of a man who arguably pioneered that industry.
Speaker 1: It explores how these unpalatable and once reviled bottom feeders
Speaker 1: became silver bricks in the foundation of high end Bohemian tourism,
Speaker 1: and the subsequent tussle over who gets to stand on
Speaker 1: top of that structure. Body of water stands out not
Speaker 1: just as an engrossing fishing book with enough depth to
Speaker 1: feel worthy of your time, but as a sublime example
Speaker 1: of what happens when a poet turns his whittled phrasings
Speaker 1: into a long form narrative. It's just satisfying to read.
Speaker 1: Here's an example. I was about to enter my thirteenth
Speaker 1: year as a fly fishing guide in Montana, but would
Speaker 1: have to wait two months before my seasonal work began
Speaker 1: in Earnest, and wait twice that many months before I
Speaker 1: could begin to row my way out of five figure
Speaker 1: deep debt, the product of some of my patented financial wizardry,
Speaker 1: which was itself largely a product of having indentured myself
Speaker 1: to the angling life at age sixteen, followed by sustained
Speaker 1: attempts to live like a sixteen year old for the
Speaker 1: ensuing seventeen years. I think it's fair to say, now,
Speaker 1: with the perspective several years afford that I was at
Speaker 1: best clinically depressed, fatigued with indecision that boarded on dread,
Speaker 1: and in need of professional help. My psychologist father would
Speaker 1: have referred me to any number of well qualified counselors,
Speaker 1: but out of some strange think or allegiance, I trusted
Speaker 1: only waters treatments. Threadbare more than a bit benumbed, I
Speaker 1: hoped I might be able to fish myself out of
Speaker 1: my fret driven depression. I've done it before, each cast
Speaker 1: a pathway out of what I assumed was myself, I
Speaker 1: remembered vaguely, or perhaps it invented an apocryphal story in
Speaker 1: which doctors an ancient India tied mentally ill patients the
Speaker 1: trees beside the moving water, sequestered near the sound of
Speaker 1: water running over rocks, the mad were often cured. I
Speaker 1: was hoping to fill such a prescription. Now, if that
Speaker 1: doesn't make you want to follow along, you just don't
Speaker 1: like good fishing stories. So do yourself a favor and
Speaker 1: pick up a copy of Body of Water. Dude, we
Speaker 1: need to get Nebraski on this show, aren't you? Aren't
Speaker 1: you two buddies? Like, why have we not heard he
Speaker 1: done this? Is he worried hanging out with us my
Speaker 1: tarnish's brand or something? No, no, no, no, it's not
Speaker 1: like that. It's not like that. I mean, yes, Chris
Speaker 1: is a very well respected writer and a guy, but
Speaker 1: he's not like one of those holier than now high
Speaker 1: and mighty kind of dudes. It's that is not on him, honestly,
Speaker 1: Like I am the problem. We he and I we
Speaker 1: just haven't had a chance to catch up, you know,
Speaker 1: And like I don't want to be I don't want
Speaker 1: the first contact for me to be be asking him
Speaker 1: for a favor, you know, like I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be that guy. Like we have'm talked in
Speaker 1: like ten months, but hey, I got something. Can you
Speaker 1: help me out with something? I just I don't want
Speaker 1: to do that, you know, so I gotta catch up
Speaker 1: with him. Oh, it's it's that's totally fancy, like my buddy.
Speaker 1: It's like my buddy John Frasier at sim and be like,
Speaker 1: hey man here, waiters, how you being by the way,
Speaker 1: shout out to John. That is fair, but you should
Speaker 1: get on that. And while we hope to have Nembraski
Speaker 1: on the show sometime soon, we're not waiting around for him.
Speaker 1: This show, like the news, waits for no one, and
Speaker 1: it is time for fish news. Fish news. That escalated quickly.
Speaker 1: All right, let's fire up some housekeeping quickly. Kind of
Speaker 1: big news. I mean it's not really big. It's kind
Speaker 1: of exciting news. At least it's not big news. We
Speaker 1: have stickers finally, and I'm such a I'm such a
Speaker 1: sticker nerd. Some of you guys have been asking about stickers,
Speaker 1: and some of you may have seen Miles and I
Speaker 1: post these on our Instagram pages, last week. But quick
Speaker 1: sticker recap, we now have some super bad ass Meat
Speaker 1: Eater fishing stickers drawn by my good Bud and killer
Speaker 1: artist Mike suit All, and they've got a wicked food
Speaker 1: chain Russian nesting doll sort of thing. One one listener
Speaker 1: even liking it to the human centipede. But he, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's just a sick of so like's not really can't
Speaker 1: go that way, but anyway, it's a muskie swallowing a bass,
Speaker 1: that's swallowing a trout that's swallowing a minner and it's
Speaker 1: damn cool. So those are now available to all in
Speaker 1: the Meat Eater's store, but strong possibility Miles and I
Speaker 1: might have a few stacks of those set aside to
Speaker 1: give away. That is highly likely a little secret stash
Speaker 1: maybe little see yeah you know, but we also have
Speaker 1: official degenerate Angler Bent stickers, which trained eyes might notice
Speaker 1: mirror the text segues used in the movie Clerks. So
Speaker 1: the burning question out there, how do you get some?
Speaker 1: I know all of you were wondering, Well, there are
Speaker 1: a few different options if we use anything that you
Speaker 1: send to our email Bent at the Meat Eater dot
Speaker 1: com on the show, whether it's an awkward photo or
Speaker 1: a salebin item, or a news story, or a question
Speaker 1: for Lance, a bar nomination, really really anything at all.
Speaker 1: Even if we just give you a shout out or
Speaker 1: you correct us on something we screw up, you'll get
Speaker 1: a little sticker pack from us. We'll send it to you. However,
Speaker 1: we're also we're also keeping an eye on the hashtags
Speaker 1: Degenerate Angler and bent podcast on the Graham, So you know,
Speaker 1: if you impress us, like make us laugh, we'll probably
Speaker 1: throw some stickers your way. Yeah, at least for now,
Speaker 1: the only way to get yourself an official Degenerate Angler
Speaker 1: sticker is to somehow charm me or Miles, but a
Speaker 1: modicum of work involved. The I think about how much
Speaker 1: cool it will be to stick one of these ultimately
Speaker 1: valueless items on your lands Fee series tackle box because
Speaker 1: you got it directly from us. And I'll also add
Speaker 1: that we're not very difficult to charm. So yeah, simple people,
Speaker 1: it's time for you to represent. We appreciate it. All right,
Speaker 1: It is time to get to fish news and a
Speaker 1: quick reminder, this is a competition. Joe and I do
Speaker 1: not know which stories the others bringing to the table,
Speaker 1: and we are as always competing for the praise, the recognition,
Speaker 1: and the validation of our paternal podcast engineer Phil Joe.
Speaker 1: You're leading off, man, What do you I am? I
Speaker 1: am so I'll tell you what, dude, I'm about to
Speaker 1: make a very dedicated listener of this program, perhaps even
Speaker 1: may I go as far as as to say our
Speaker 1: number one fan very happy this week, Okay. And that
Speaker 1: person is mister Mike Stevens of the web turn Outdoor News. Oh, Mike, Mike, Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: all right, I know. I'm sorry. I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: jump in on you because you reminded me. You actually
Speaker 1: reminded me of some some housekeeping I should probably do too,
Speaker 1: because I totally forgot. I have a very important correction
Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed. Mike. Uh. He wrote in
Speaker 1: to tell me that I messed up in our recent
Speaker 1: interview that we did with Oliver and I and and
Speaker 1: in that we asked Oliver to choose between Nike pumps
Speaker 1: and Rebok catapults, and Mike wrote he said, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure it was La Gear, not Reebok that made the
Speaker 1: catapult a watchdog. That's a watchdog right there, And he
Speaker 1: goes on to say, I only remember because I played
Speaker 1: hoops in high school, and back then it was all
Speaker 1: about whose shoe you wore. Carl Malone rock catapults, but
Speaker 1: LA gear was almost always in the lame category. So
Speaker 1: thank you for that, Mike. And since I wrote the question,
Speaker 1: I take full responsibility for that that egregious error. And
Speaker 1: let's hope I don't mess up anything near that important
Speaker 1: in fish news here. Sorry, well back, No, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's great. I'm glad we worked that in. Mike gets
Speaker 1: double shouted out, But this is no joke. I didn't
Speaker 1: go look Mike up. This story of his in the
Speaker 1: Western Outdoor News genuinely popped up in my Google news feed,
Speaker 1: and it's very recent, and it resonated with me so much,
Speaker 1: and I'm betting it or resonate with a lot of
Speaker 1: other people out there. And it made me say, yes,
Speaker 1: damn right, you preach brother, Mike headline Lake Management stop
Speaker 1: publicizing stock days. So listen, yeah, I got I got
Speaker 1: a serious education from this piece. Because I'm not hip
Speaker 1: to the California truck trout scene. I don't know anything
Speaker 1: about it, and according to Mike's story, due to a
Speaker 1: mix of factors, which include some virus outbreaks at certain
Speaker 1: fish hatcheries, meaning the fish, not the people like that.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they got, but the fish got sick,
Speaker 1: plus COVID nineteen, budget shortfalls, misallocated funds, and as he
Speaker 1: put it, a deprioritizing of fishing at state and federal
Speaker 1: leadership levels. California had a shortage of trout this past season,
Speaker 1: and this is a big problem. And as in many
Speaker 1: other states, it sounds like Callie has a mix of
Speaker 1: fish that you know, some come from state hatcheries and
Speaker 1: some come from private hatcheries, which is important because I'll
Speaker 1: jump into a selection from Mike's story says lakes opting
Speaker 1: for private providers of hatchery rainbows are not immune either,
Speaker 1: because anglers frustrated at the lack of trout plants at
Speaker 1: their local holes are going to look elsewhere, and most
Speaker 1: are willing to get up earlier and burn some gas
Speaker 1: in order to find spots where putting five on a
Speaker 1: stringer is within the realm of possibility. Lake stock by private,
Speaker 1: non DFW hatcheries are no longer solely doing so for
Speaker 1: the benefit of local anglers, because those folks are the
Speaker 1: ones taking advantage of the best trout fishing a given
Speaker 1: lake has to offer, and most of that carnage is
Speaker 1: going down on the day a lake is stocked. Most
Speaker 1: anglers know the location that their favorite lakes are stocked,
Speaker 1: and even on an unfamiliar lake, it's easy to figure out,
Speaker 1: and there's not many practical workarounds there. But lake staffers
Speaker 1: or city personnel publicizing the day, if not the time
Speaker 1: of the plant on social media or their own websites
Speaker 1: is what creates that gauntlet, and that's what he's saying
Speaker 1: needs to stop. And Mike goes on to say, there's
Speaker 1: an understandable benefit to posting those details because it results
Speaker 1: in cars lined up outside the gate hours before the
Speaker 1: lake area opens. And it sounds like a lot of
Speaker 1: these lakes, which is a little different from the East Coast,
Speaker 1: have concession stands that sell everything from coffee to worms,
Speaker 1: to fishing permits and hot dogs, and they make money
Speaker 1: off people showing up to catch these trout. But his
Speaker 1: argument is that that quick spike in cash right produced
Speaker 1: by posting these minute stocking details, it's kind of a
Speaker 1: bad win because what happens is the joint gets fished
Speaker 1: out in a day or two. Then there's this long
Speaker 1: ass lull in action between stockings during which these same
Speaker 1: session stands aren't making any money. And meanwhile he's saying,
Speaker 1: all you see on social media, you know, as people
Speaker 1: crying about this spot's fished out, it's fished out, it's
Speaker 1: fished out over here, or berating people calling them truck
Speaker 1: trout chasers, you know. And yet, as Mike points out,
Speaker 1: the situation has sort of forced you to become a
Speaker 1: truck chaser, because if you want to experience a really
Speaker 1: good hot bite, you kind of sort of have to
Speaker 1: play this game. You have to be there when they're stocked.
Speaker 1: And Mike finishes with why not keep stock dates under wraps?
Speaker 1: You can still announce how many pounds will be stocked
Speaker 1: over the course of a season, or how many times
Speaker 1: within a given month trout will go in. And even
Speaker 1: DFW only publishes the weak trout planser schedule to happen,
Speaker 1: not the day. And he says, if we adopted that,
Speaker 1: if California adopted that, he says, the crowds will spread
Speaker 1: out over the rest of the month, making fishing more comfortable,
Speaker 1: and there will absolutely be more permits and worms and
Speaker 1: cups of Joe sold over the long run to all
Speaker 1: the new faces in the crowd. And dude, this hits
Speaker 1: so close to home for me, it's not even funny.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, Like out here my entire life. Trout
Speaker 1: stock streams in Jersey closed two weeks before the season opened,
Speaker 1: and across the river in Pennsylvania one month before the
Speaker 1: season opened, and those rivers and lakes could be stocked
Speaker 1: anytime within that period, right and then after opening day
Speaker 1: you could find out the weak most bodies of water
Speaker 1: would be stocked, but not the day, and there were
Speaker 1: a few exceptions. There were a few places where you
Speaker 1: could find out the day, however, you weren't allowed to
Speaker 1: fish on that day, or you could fish like after
Speaker 1: six pm or something like that. But the bottom line
Speaker 1: is my entire life, the stockers would flush the system,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. You could wade a couple
Speaker 1: miles of any given trout stream, well away from the
Speaker 1: easy access stock points and catch fish. And I don't
Speaker 1: do this as much as I did growing up, but
Speaker 1: per recent experiences over the last few years, that doesn't
Speaker 1: really seem to happen more. And you know now, is
Speaker 1: that because it's so easy to figure out the stock
Speaker 1: weeks and days, not entirely because it's always been that way.
Speaker 1: I think it's a combo there being a lot more
Speaker 1: people out there that want to chase stock trout now
Speaker 1: than you have the influence of social media, and I
Speaker 1: think since time is money for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: there's more effort to hit places as close to stocking
Speaker 1: as possible. And I swear these days, man like you
Speaker 1: only catch these fish where they're dumped, and they won't
Speaker 1: be there for long. And I'm getting long on this,
Speaker 1: but I got to end with this example. My daughter's five,
Speaker 1: just old enough for little chess waiters, and I took
Speaker 1: her to a stream I grew up fishing for the
Speaker 1: first time this past spring, and she caught her first
Speaker 1: trout right. But we started at the bridge. Nothing went
Speaker 1: to two more known holes down nothing. Fourth hole was
Speaker 1: a charm. We caught four trout, missed a few all
Speaker 1: in just that one hole brought him home, cooked them
Speaker 1: up short trip because five year olds have no attention span.
Speaker 1: But I went back two days later by myself and
Speaker 1: there in that spot was a roost tail package some
Speaker 1: asshole left on the bank, and I called zero trout
Speaker 1: and I waited half a mile or so downstream zero trout.
Speaker 1: So my point is, like my daughter had this really
Speaker 1: sort of cherished milestone experience because of pure dumb luck
Speaker 1: and timing, Like we just went. I paid no attention
Speaker 1: to the schedule, and it was pure luck. And had
Speaker 1: I taken her two days later, she may not have
Speaker 1: caught her first trout last spring, and we probably would
Speaker 1: have caught nothing. And I feel like what Mike's saying
Speaker 1: and what I see here that's in a lot of
Speaker 1: places becoming what trout stocked fishing is. Man, I got
Speaker 1: this is so outside of my realm of experience and
Speaker 1: understanding because I've just I've never ever done any of this,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, on one hand, it's really fascinating to
Speaker 1: me just this this whole culture about trying to time
Speaker 1: where they're going to be and when they're going to
Speaker 1: be there. I know, now, correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: But it sort of sounds like what you're saying is
Speaker 1: what Mike is calling for is what's already happening out east,
Speaker 1: and that's not solving the problem either. Well, if that's
Speaker 1: not the solution, what is it? I mean? See, I
Speaker 1: think this is this is what's happening here on both
Speaker 1: sides of the country, Right, I think you have a
Speaker 1: good example of government or whoever thinking that by putting
Speaker 1: this detailed information out there, they're making it easier for
Speaker 1: more people to enjoy fishing and enjoy the outdoors. Right.
Speaker 1: But that's that's questionable, you know. I agree people want
Speaker 1: to know where their money is being spent. So to say, hey,
Speaker 1: especially out here, we buy we buy trout stamps, all
Speaker 1: that money goes to the hatchery programs. So to say, hey,
Speaker 1: we're putting X amount of pounds of trout in these
Speaker 1: rivers between April one and May thirtieth, and call it
Speaker 1: done that we've told you how many trout are going
Speaker 1: in there, you know when opening day is. But beyond that,
Speaker 1: I think it would be a great idea to completely
Speaker 1: randomize that and not make it so so cut and dry.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's always been that way
Speaker 1: out here, and it's I don't know, man, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's fewer people fishing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's more people jumping out there following those those stock days.
Speaker 1: But you know, growing up, yeah, like you'd get your
Speaker 1: jolly's catching six and ten minutes at the bridge an
Speaker 1: opening day, like you wanted that chain stringer full of
Speaker 1: year six right away. But the real satisfying ones was
Speaker 1: like that lone fatty you'd catch in June, a couple
Speaker 1: miles like way away from where they stocked. You know
Speaker 1: that one hole over almost wild at that point. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's almost what the meat was, dude, the big thing here.
Speaker 1: You open up, it's got pink meat. The meat turned
Speaker 1: pink like that was like the big thing. But I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, I I talked to a lot of dudes.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's not as common an occurrence now.
Speaker 1: It's like you better get your ass there. When they're dumped,
Speaker 1: they're gonna get whacked out of these holes, no time
Speaker 1: to flush the system. And that's that's. I have no
Speaker 1: issue with stock trout fishing. It's what I grew up doing.
Speaker 1: And back in the day, they would they would get
Speaker 1: throughout a good chunk of the system and then it
Speaker 1: would actually feel like you were trout fishing for real.
Speaker 1: They were still stocked, but you could sneak around a
Speaker 1: bend or walk a little further and pick fish off
Speaker 1: and it's it doesn't happen like that anymore. It sounds
Speaker 1: like the way that you're describing it happening now, and
Speaker 1: what Mike was writing about sounds really transactional to me,
Speaker 1: Like it makes me think of those pay to play
Speaker 1: hatchtery ponds where you could, you know, five bucks for
Speaker 1: three trout right, you know, which never, even when I
Speaker 1: was a kid and all I cared about was catching fish,
Speaker 1: those had no appeal to me, Like I was just
Speaker 1: not interested in doing that. And so the idea of
Speaker 1: stocked trout streams, at least in my head, is not
Speaker 1: to be that paid hatchery pond, but it's to simulate
Speaker 1: the experience of its exact catching trout in a semi
Speaker 1: wild environment that feels more like fishing. And what it
Speaker 1: sounds like you guys are both describing is the loss
Speaker 1: of that sense. And I think I agree that that's
Speaker 1: a problem. I don't know enough to say like, well,
Speaker 1: I think this is the solution, because I'd be an
Speaker 1: asshole to say that, but I agree that there is
Speaker 1: a problem. There no, no, no, and and and you
Speaker 1: said that beautifully. That's what it was like. You accept
Speaker 1: that these are you know, clipfin, you know, raceway fish,
Speaker 1: but they're put there so that your river that's probably
Speaker 1: going to be dry by June, feels like a real
Speaker 1: trout stream for a few months. And you get out
Speaker 1: there and you fish the riffles. And I don't fully
Speaker 1: understand the Calie deal, but I don't think it's it's
Speaker 1: full on pay Lake. It just sounds to me like,
Speaker 1: you know, these are these are private and state stockings,
Speaker 1: but it's not a paila because the pay Lake is
Speaker 1: constantly adding more to I did. I was just I
Speaker 1: was using the pay things as an example of what
Speaker 1: it's not trying to be. I mean, same same deal
Speaker 1: here in our lakes man, Like, you know, they stock
Speaker 1: a bunch of lakes here, but anymore you you go
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after they do that, because guarantee
Speaker 1: they were people knew exactly when they were dumping them,
Speaker 1: and they like what I could never understand is that
Speaker 1: how you could look at it as a good time
Speaker 1: to like sit there with your power bait in the
Speaker 1: water while they're dumping nets of trout over top of
Speaker 1: the power bait in the water. Like that ruins the
Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, But anyway, it's like it's like pulling
Speaker 1: the curtain back on the magic. I totally get that.
Speaker 1: We I think there's one we could probably cover like
Speaker 1: half a show on. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna move us away because because otherwise we will and
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna follow it up with some other questionable
Speaker 1: fishing practices within the industry. And it's a little bit
Speaker 1: awkward because I feel like, pretty soon we're gonna get
Speaker 1: a reputation on this show for bagging on fishing tournaments.
Speaker 1: And you know, neither of us are tournament anglers, and
Speaker 1: that's something we have discussed in the past. But I
Speaker 1: feel like I gotta say I don't actively hate on
Speaker 1: tournament fishing. It's not something I want to do, but
Speaker 1: I don't hate on it. And I think tournaments increase
Speaker 1: the visibility and the popularity of fishing, and that's something
Speaker 1: that you and I both fully support. Yeah, and I'll
Speaker 1: clarify for myself too, like I'm not a tournament guy,
Speaker 1: not my scene, not when I'm into, not why I fish.
Speaker 1: But I am also not like anti like there should
Speaker 1: never be fishing tournaments at all. I'm really really not.
Speaker 1: But this bite. Having said all that and needing to
Speaker 1: caveat that, this next story is exactly the kind of
Speaker 1: outcome that can paint tournaments in a bad light, all right.
Speaker 1: So in July of twenty nineteen, a guy by the
Speaker 1: name of Ben Wu hosted a two day bass tournament
Speaker 1: on the Saint Lawrence River in Ontario, Canada. After the
Speaker 1: opening day of the tournament, the Ontario Ministry of Natural
Speaker 1: Resources started getting calls from local anglers reporting that lots
Speaker 1: of fish were dying. After the tournament, Bruce Tufts, who's
Speaker 1: the fisheries biologist that helped craft the province's guidelines on
Speaker 1: fish handling during competition, he went down to the marina
Speaker 1: because he'd heard these rumors and he was just wanting
Speaker 1: to investigate. So he and some officers from the Ministry
Speaker 1: of Natural Resources. They started poking around. They found a
Speaker 1: few dead fish and the bushes nearby, and they found
Speaker 1: a few more in the water, but then a marina
Speaker 1: employee pointed them toward a dumpster. There they found one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty five dead smallmouth double bagged in black
Speaker 1: plastic and buried under a bunch of other trash. In total,
Speaker 1: investigators found nearly two hundred fish that the biologists. Tufts
Speaker 1: described to the CBC as quote the biggest best broodstock
Speaker 1: in our fishery. And if you look at the photos,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd have to agree they're all really, really
Speaker 1: nice small mouth. Now, Tufts claims that these fish died
Speaker 1: as a result of high temperatures and low oxygen levels
Speaker 1: in the holding tank the tournament used to keep fish
Speaker 1: after they've been weighed. A staff sergeant for the ministry
Speaker 1: told the CBC, we believe the organizer was negligent in
Speaker 1: the way he handled the fish and that's what resulted
Speaker 1: in the deaths of so many Okay, so all this
Speaker 1: happened in the summer of twenty nineteen, and so why
Speaker 1: am I talking about it now? Well, the guy who
Speaker 1: put on that tournament, Ben Wu, was recently convicted of
Speaker 1: failing to abide by the terms and conditions of his
Speaker 1: license as an organizer. He received a fine of nine
Speaker 1: thousand bucks that's Canadian dollars and a twenty years suspension
Speaker 1: of his fish license in the province of Ontario. But
Speaker 1: here's the kicker for me, Woo doesn't live in Ontario anymore.
Speaker 1: In the wake of this incident, which you didn't look
Speaker 1: real good for him, he moved to New Brunswick and
Speaker 1: this punishment doesn't impact Wo's fishing privileges in any province
Speaker 1: other than Ontario. Now I have to say, who denies
Speaker 1: any wrongdoing in the handling of the fish, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I need to point out that he has
Speaker 1: hosted lots of tournaments and has never been linked to
Speaker 1: any other fish kills. He blames the venue and claims
Speaker 1: that poor water quality from the river was a contributing factor. Now,
Speaker 1: maybe that's true, maybe it isn't, but either way, I
Speaker 1: gotta say, man, this dude's conduct seems really, really sketchy
Speaker 1: to me. Reports from the first day of the tournament
Speaker 1: indicate that Woo and other organizers knew they had a
Speaker 1: problem with fish mortality in that tank. Despite that, they
Speaker 1: did not halt the event to save the fish, and
Speaker 1: they didn't report the fish deaths to the Ministry of
Speaker 1: Natural Resources, which they were required to do by law. Moreover,
Speaker 1: even though WU denies doing so, it looks like they
Speaker 1: tried to hide all those dead fish right like they
Speaker 1: buried them pretty much in track bags in the dumpster
Speaker 1: in order to avoid getting in trouble, and in contradictory
Speaker 1: public statements, WU has said that he has quote no
Speaker 1: negligence and that he quote takes full responsibility. So I
Speaker 1: don't quite know what to do with that. He also
Speaker 1: told the CBC that he was done hosting phishing tournaments,
Speaker 1: but then continued to host fishing tournaments under a new
Speaker 1: business name. So look, I'm just going to close by saying,
Speaker 1: like reiterating that I think phishing tournaments play an important
Speaker 1: role in modern fishing culture and the fishing industry, which
Speaker 1: we're both part of. I'm not trying to hate on tournaments,
Speaker 1: but incidents like this make some people understandably skeptical of
Speaker 1: competitive angling, right. And I know, and you know, the
Speaker 1: big circuits like BASS and FLW and Major League Fishing,
Speaker 1: they weren't really hard to ensure that they minimize fish mortality.
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of all or tournaments like
Speaker 1: that one out there that don't have the resources of
Speaker 1: those three tours. And look, man, those are the ones
Speaker 1: I worry about because they have impacts on the fisheries too. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean, ultimately right, terrible story, but you certainly
Speaker 1: can't look at this and and and say this is
Speaker 1: all tournaments by a stretch. This is one bad dude
Speaker 1: who did it wrong. I mean, you know, you can't.
Speaker 1: You can't let this sort of tarnish your view of
Speaker 1: all of all bass tournaments. Nope. Um, but you know
Speaker 1: I have like a really bold statement I want to
Speaker 1: make that's that's actually based off someone I interviewed who
Speaker 1: I'd have to keep nameless. But it's I'm hesitant, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna. I'm gonna do it. And because it's sort
Speaker 1: of it sort of ties in, you know, um years ago,
Speaker 1: I was I was doing some interview work about a
Speaker 1: car study in South Texas, right, and the tons of
Speaker 1: bass tournaments down there, and uh, you know, bass is
Speaker 1: big business, brings in a lot of money, and you
Speaker 1: have a lot of bass fisherman that want to see
Speaker 1: all the guard dead because they're down there killing, you know,
Speaker 1: supposedly killing all their bass. And they did this study
Speaker 1: on these gar and then the long story short, they
Speaker 1: kind of found that the thing they were eating the
Speaker 1: least of was largemouth bass. I mean, they cut them open,
Speaker 1: did stomach contents. It was all rough fish. And I
Speaker 1: can't say names because I promised that I wouldn't, But
Speaker 1: but someone with authority within that whole deal said, you
Speaker 1: know what I really want to tell all these bass dudes,
Speaker 1: is that the worst thing for the bass in your
Speaker 1: lake is another tournament every single weekend on these lakes,
Speaker 1: Like it is more disruptive to the bass population than
Speaker 1: anything else. And even that right, still not saying tournaments
Speaker 1: are bad, but it's really easy to look at this
Speaker 1: dude and be like, well, what an asshole. Look, he
Speaker 1: screwed up. He knew the fish would being harmed. He
Speaker 1: ended up throwing all these fish in the dumpster. That's
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario. But on that local level too,
Speaker 1: you know, I live by lakes out here, and I
Speaker 1: don't even live in super bass Land. That also there's
Speaker 1: a there's a tournament on them almost every weekend by
Speaker 1: some club, you know, And I think we just don't
Speaker 1: think about that, you know what I mean. It's it's
Speaker 1: real easy to look at how they're held after, how
Speaker 1: they're released, what happens after the fact. But if there's
Speaker 1: something to think about it, it's also the pressure of
Speaker 1: tournaments on these lakes that see a lot of them
Speaker 1: in a lot of different parts of the country. Yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: and look, we got to move on. But I will
Speaker 1: all close by saying adding to that, under five percent
Speaker 1: mortality is considered acceptable. So stress that out over every weekend,
Speaker 1: with big tournaments all the time. There's an impact there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. I mean, you know, again, not coming down
Speaker 1: on tournaments. I do agree with you that they do
Speaker 1: a lot of good for fishing. But yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: that's a lot of stress, depending on a lake, depending
Speaker 1: how often they see it. We'll jump from stress on
Speaker 1: fish to uh man, it's a shit segue. Stress on
Speaker 1: one of America's greatest outdoor writers. How about that? And
Speaker 1: I'll lead it by saying or asking, rather, even though
Speaker 1: I kind of already know the answer. Are you a
Speaker 1: Hemingway fan as in earnest you entirely not merrial? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know this question, and I am. I will say
Speaker 1: I think that he did so much for the form
Speaker 1: of writing, like modern and writing, and particularly his short
Speaker 1: fiction for me is fantastic. I'm also at a sort
Speaker 1: of an advantage or disadvantage. I don't know the story
Speaker 1: is gonna go, but when I used to teach at
Speaker 1: the university, I taught some Hemingway. So I'm a little
Speaker 1: bit in this this world. Yeah no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: And that's all. Well, I'm good and I learned some
Speaker 1: Hemingway in school. I did the Hemingway thing and and
Speaker 1: right out of the gate right incredible respect for Ernest Hemingway,
Speaker 1: and I agree he is an incredible writer icon one
Speaker 1: of the best there ever was. I have always sort
Speaker 1: of taken a little issue with people that sort of
Speaker 1: they fancy themselves well versed in outdoor literature, but immediately
Speaker 1: jumped to Hemingway is their main guy, Like, that's the
Speaker 1: main guy. And I've met many of these people and
Speaker 1: like to put it in a different way, I'll use
Speaker 1: this analogy. It's like hearing someone say, like, I'm really
Speaker 1: into punk music and I'm like, oh, cool, me too.
Speaker 1: Who's your favorite band? And they're like, oh, green Day.
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say that, and that
Speaker 1: pisses me off, but go ahead. I love green Day.
Speaker 1: Green Day is terrific. But like, if that's where you
Speaker 1: jump to pronounce your love of punk, especially then if
Speaker 1: you have no idea who operation Ivy you're the misfits
Speaker 1: or the descendants are, I'm like, I can't have a
Speaker 1: conversation about this with you, and I just sometimes feel
Speaker 1: and this is just my opinion, and you're gonna fight me.
Speaker 1: Hemingway is just too token and easily latched upon, right,
Speaker 1: And I just need to establish that because this little
Speaker 1: story from the Wall Street Journal is for these sort
Speaker 1: of token Hemingway people. Headline fly fishing the Ernest Hemingway Way.
Speaker 1: And it begins interestingly when Ernest Hemingway is well worn
Speaker 1: steamer trunk containing his fly fishing gear disappeared from a
Speaker 1: train bound for sun Valley, Idaho, in nineteen forty. The
Speaker 1: loss was so crushing the author never again waded into
Speaker 1: the shallows. Instead, he concentrated his angling efforts far offshore,
Speaker 1: catching record breaking pelagics like sailfish and marlin. And that
Speaker 1: was a little fun fact I did not know about
Speaker 1: Hemingway anyway. His great grandson Patrick said, the loss of
Speaker 1: this trunk shook the entire family. But apparently the idea
Speaker 1: of this long lost steamer trunk loaded with Hemingway's fishing
Speaker 1: gear is now the inspiration for a new Hemmingway inshore
Speaker 1: collection of wares from several high end brands, one of
Speaker 1: which is Everall. And that's who created the reels within
Speaker 1: this line. Okay, now, Everall, because you're giving me the
Speaker 1: look of what's that right, have you ever heard of Everall?
Speaker 1: I haven't. I'm feeling negligent. No no, no, no, no
Speaker 1: no no. So Everall is not a well known name,
Speaker 1: right However, seeing that I'm a vintage tackle nerd. While
Speaker 1: they were never super prevalent in the US market, in
Speaker 1: the rest of the world, Europe and everything, they're the
Speaker 1: van Stallman, the accurate, the old school, finour like serious
Speaker 1: machinery for whoop and big fish, And apparently, per this story,
Speaker 1: Hemingway was a big Everall fan. He had a lot
Speaker 1: of Everall reels made. In fact, a vintage Italian Everall
Speaker 1: big game reel is high on my list of personal
Speaker 1: vintage tackle desires. I'm just extremely poor, so I don't
Speaker 1: know if that'll ever happen anyway. This is from the
Speaker 1: story debuting in December. The handcrafted nineweight fly reels come
Speaker 1: into mahogany box and are packed in freshly planed wood shavings,
Speaker 1: smelling the way you'd expect anything Hemingway to smell, earthy,
Speaker 1: warm woodsie, which makes me wonder, do you Hemingway dude,
Speaker 1: sit around and talk about what you think Papa smelled like?
Speaker 1: Is that what you get all the time? Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: it continues. The author's only surviving fly rods and the
Speaker 1: inshore collection fly rods share similar Craspanship designer Anthony Torreau
Speaker 1: spent sixty hours forming each two piece eight footstick from
Speaker 1: tonkin bamboo and wrapping its nickel silver Farrells in black
Speaker 1: kimono Jackmanese silk thread, and attaching a real seat built
Speaker 1: of titanium and a base in fighting but made of
Speaker 1: West Indian mahogany and Spanish seater. Now I looked up
Speaker 1: this entire collection, which also includes some conventional all shore
Speaker 1: reels and even a custom Willie Roberts flat skiff, a
Speaker 1: Hemmingway flat skiff. Here's a price list, as you would imagine.
Speaker 1: The fly rod and reel come as a set for
Speaker 1: forty five hundred dollars. Okay, and guess what, they're already
Speaker 1: sold out per the website, They're already sold out, the
Speaker 1: flat skiff ninety five thousand dollars. And then you've got
Speaker 1: the offshore wheels starting at a measly seven fifty because
Speaker 1: I guess they need something for the lowly, unrefined, low
Speaker 1: budget bally hoop puller. And listen, I understand that all
Speaker 1: this shit has been developed for people with stupid money,
Speaker 1: and that's fine, that's totally fine. But I also am
Speaker 1: willing to bet there are like those Hemmingway people I'm
Speaker 1: talking about out there that, while they may not be
Speaker 1: able to afford any of this either, would just love
Speaker 1: to have it, Like they'd be all about out being
Speaker 1: decked out in Hemingway gear. And I look at that
Speaker 1: Everall fly reel, and dude, it is gorgeous, Like I'm
Speaker 1: sure it's one of the best made fly reels. Ever, However,
Speaker 1: like as much as I want an Everall in my collection,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to show up like in the
Speaker 1: Louisiana Delta to chase Redfish with my Hemmingway logo reel.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I'd have
Speaker 1: to put a green Day sticker over the Hemingway graphic.
Speaker 1: So there you go, just a little little thing from
Speaker 1: the from the journal, and I'll let you. You're gonna
Speaker 1: come at me hard here, but if you still Christmas
Speaker 1: Present ideas everybody, You're not going to commit you at
Speaker 1: all here. In fact, I'm not gonna say much because
Speaker 1: I don't think there's the time place for a Hemingway debate.
Speaker 1: But I will say that I think Hemingway would absolutely
Speaker 1: hate everything about that. I think he is that's filling
Speaker 1: over in his grave. Nothing about him was like embracing
Speaker 1: any of that pomp and circumstance elitist bullshit. Yeah. That
Speaker 1: he does not want the replica of his boat at
Speaker 1: the bass pro shops and in the Key. He didn't
Speaker 1: love that. No, So I think the fact that his
Speaker 1: name is being profited off of that way to do
Speaker 1: people with more money than sense, I think would piss
Speaker 1: him off. That's what I'll that's fair. Fair can debate
Speaker 1: Hemingway later. I have not read much of it, so
Speaker 1: you'll win. Yeah, I have. I have no connection between
Speaker 1: that story and this one, so I'm not even gonna try.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna swamp Doctor Karen Osborne, a zoologist from
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian Institute, primarily studies invertebrates, very deep sea invertebrates,
Speaker 1: to be specific. As part of a research, she takes
Speaker 1: pictures of critters and the deepest parts of the ocean,
Speaker 1: and even though she's usually focused on on really really
Speaker 1: tiny organisms, she'll take pictures of just about whatever she
Speaker 1: can find down there. Because you know, you don't see much, right.
Speaker 1: So Osborne kept photographing this one particular fish, the fang tooth,
Speaker 1: which looked exactly like you imagine. But every image she
Speaker 1: took she could only see the silhouette and not the
Speaker 1: fish itself. Okay, I kept trying to take pictures of it,
Speaker 1: Osborne told Wired magazine, And I was just getting these silhouettes.
Speaker 1: They were terrible. This happened enough times that she figured
Speaker 1: something weird was going on and decided to investigate further,
Speaker 1: because that's what scientists do. So she captured some of
Speaker 1: these fish and she analyzed them. Turned out the problem
Speaker 1: wasn't her photography skills. These fish make really terrible models
Speaker 1: because their skin actually absorbs and traps ninety nine point
Speaker 1: five percent of the light that hits it. They're weird,
Speaker 1: living swimming black holes without all the vacuous gravity and supermasks. Weird. Yeah, cool.
Speaker 1: So doctor Osborne discovered these fish have very distinct arrangements
Speaker 1: of melanin in their skin. Melanin being the compound that
Speaker 1: gives skin pigment. Melanine is stored and transported by organelles
Speaker 1: called milanisomes. The milanizomes in these fish are arranged in
Speaker 1: such a way that light bounces around between them instead
Speaker 1: of reflecting back out. They've created effectively a structural light trap,
Speaker 1: doctor Osborne told the website Inverse. But they've done it
Speaker 1: using just the shape of the pigment that's in there,
Speaker 1: which is so cool and so efficient. We're harnessing this
Speaker 1: for military something, dude. This is knots yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: a It's an incredibly useful adaptation for the fish because
Speaker 1: it renders them virtually invisible to both predators and prey.
Speaker 1: Since they live more than six hundred feet below the surface,
Speaker 1: where there's almost no structure for them to use as cover,
Speaker 1: they basically like carry their cover around with them all
Speaker 1: the time. But now, hold up, some of you who
Speaker 1: are thinking ahead might be wondering, like, you know what,
Speaker 1: why does this matter if these fish live so far
Speaker 1: down that the sunlight doesn't reach them, right, Like, how
Speaker 1: would that help them out? All right? Well, check this out.
Speaker 1: So many deep water species create their own light sources
Speaker 1: called bioluminescence, and both predators and prey use that. And
Speaker 1: for an example, like imagine that classic angler fish that
Speaker 1: we all found learned about when we were kids. Right.
Speaker 1: It's that my kids got stuffed one in the other room,
Speaker 1: exactly right. It's got that glowing lure that hangs off
Speaker 1: of its head right. And anglerfish, by the way, also
Speaker 1: have this special light absorbing skin, and that's what makes
Speaker 1: their ruse work. If the light from their little glowing
Speaker 1: lures actually lit up their freaky looking faces, no prey
Speaker 1: fish would even come close to them and it wouldn't
Speaker 1: work out. So you know, when you think of fish
Speaker 1: and shallow water environments where there's a lot of sunlight,
Speaker 1: a lot of those fish have adapted mirrored scales or
Speaker 1: translucent bodies and that's what they used to hide. But
Speaker 1: mirrored scales and translucents are easily visible under a bioluminescent
Speaker 1: light sorce, so they don't work in the deep. This
Speaker 1: unique pigmentation that doctor Osbourne observed absorbs the light the
Speaker 1: deep water fish create and therefore makes a perfect camouflage.
Speaker 1: Once doctor Osbourne and her colleagues started digging into this,
Speaker 1: they found sixteen different species of fish with the trade,
Speaker 1: many of which are not even related to each other.
Speaker 1: So like a bunch of unrelated fish, evolve the same
Speaker 1: trade independently because it works even cooler, at least at
Speaker 1: least to me. Some of these fish have this ultra
Speaker 1: black coating lining their guts, and the theory for that
Speaker 1: goes that it would block the bioluminescent light from the
Speaker 1: fish they've just eaten. WHOA, right, dude, that's yeah man,
Speaker 1: you know, and it seems like such the cliche thing
Speaker 1: to say, but you know how people are, like we
Speaker 1: know more about space than we do about our ocean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we do, Like, dude, the year twenty twenty and we
Speaker 1: just figured this out. I mean, that's rad. That's really cool.
Speaker 1: And to your point, yes, the team doctor Osbourne team
Speaker 1: think this might help, like might have biodesign applications, and
Speaker 1: it might create better telescopes or cameras. There might be
Speaker 1: some application for blocking light pollution, and yes, it might
Speaker 1: lead to something the whole nuclear submarine. Just yes, that's
Speaker 1: how we do. We just we just take nature and
Speaker 1: then and then turn it into a weapon. Man, Like
Speaker 1: I don't really have like much like it's like I don't.
Speaker 1: I just I'm that was one of the most fascinating
Speaker 1: of your science stories yet. That was really like, that's
Speaker 1: really interesting. I could not I knew the moment I
Speaker 1: saw that one, I was like, oh, I'm writing this
Speaker 1: one up. There's no question this one. This one's gone
Speaker 1: in the podcast, man. And then I mean, it's always
Speaker 1: fascinates me too, just that anybody can put that level
Speaker 1: of study into anything that lives that deep, because you
Speaker 1: can't bring them up a lot like they couldn't bring
Speaker 1: them up alive, right, No, No, they had to they
Speaker 1: had to kill them and to analyze them. But the
Speaker 1: other piece of the story, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: go too far off on this, but this is like
Speaker 1: such a classic example of why scientists are interesting to
Speaker 1: me and how their brains work. This is not what
Speaker 1: this person studies. She studies invertebrates, she studies time things.
Speaker 1: But she has the kind of mind where she noticed, like, wow,
Speaker 1: I wonder why I can only get silhouettes of this fish.
Speaker 1: M I better study that, Like I just I love that,
Speaker 1: Just the the ability to or the choice to be
Speaker 1: so aware of what you're looking at and know that
Speaker 1: it then leads to an avenue for discovery. I just
Speaker 1: think that's so valuable and I respect people to have
Speaker 1: that so much. Super cool, super cool story, Phil, What
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? Man? You got by, you got
Speaker 1: a new fish species, you got expensive hemmingway here yet
Speaker 1: truck trout trout dead bass dead bass man. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a tough decision. But as soon as we hear
Speaker 1: from Phil to see who who won this week's news showdown,
Speaker 1: We're gonna go over to a fan favorite, Awkward Moments
Speaker 1: in Angling and make a dude regret that he sent
Speaker 1: us his photo Miles. As much as I appreciated the
Speaker 1: update on all of the crazy shit happening in the
Speaker 1: deepest trenches of the ocean, the winner this week is Joe.
Speaker 1: Sir Mellie, Joe, I really related to your stocking dilemma
Speaker 1: story as I'm currently editing this podcast from the utility
Speaker 1: closet of a target, waiting for them to stock their
Speaker 1: store with PlayStation fives. When did you back a picture
Speaker 1: a live black so who is our victim this week
Speaker 1: in Awkward Moments in Angling? I also have to say
Speaker 1: that we have a tendency to flim flam the name
Speaker 1: between awkward Moments and angling. Sometimes we say awkward moments
Speaker 1: and fishing. You people know what we're talking about. It's
Speaker 1: the same, It's the same segment anyway. Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: get it. I think they're smart enough to follow that
Speaker 1: I give I give our listeners that much credit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we're that's very unprofessional for us to keep changing
Speaker 1: the name. But it's it's that's our problem anyway. On
Speaker 1: the chopping block this week is mister Dave, so Becky
Speaker 1: or so back. One of those is right. I hope
Speaker 1: I'm saying your name right, dude. Now, Dave wrote us
Speaker 1: a very nice note about the podcast and his experiences
Speaker 1: at a Pantera show, the Pantera you guys love it,
Speaker 1: and just kind of slipped this shot in as like
Speaker 1: a little addendum. And after some discussion of the Crow's
Speaker 1: soundtrack and how his buds would also go out of
Speaker 1: their way to play music on jukeboxes that would just
Speaker 1: piss off the entire bar, he kind of did the
Speaker 1: old like, oh, by the way, here's a photo. Yeah. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: by the way, I also happened to have this little
Speaker 1: jim hidden the way that you might enjoy and like
Speaker 1: when you kept reading the email, didn't say much about
Speaker 1: the photo. Yeah, just like it was just like a
Speaker 1: little bit of a breadcrumb, just kind of teeth it
Speaker 1: up and it was perfect because there's there's so much
Speaker 1: that we could say about this photo, Like we could.
Speaker 1: We could, honestly do. We could take up the rest
Speaker 1: of the show. Just won't, but we could. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: not going to, but yes we could. So that's right,
Speaker 1: and and and and here's what Dave wrote. Okay, below
Speaker 1: you'll find a very awkward photo of me circa nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty nine in the north Woods of Wisconsin, proving I
Speaker 1: was og metal and a virgin. But thought I was cool.
Speaker 1: I was all right, I'm beloking it was right out.
Speaker 1: And I will say I think it also proves that
Speaker 1: he was very, very high. I'm not judging, and I
Speaker 1: don't mean to like like read this based on appearances
Speaker 1: or whatever, but like it kind of looks like Dave
Speaker 1: could barely hold his bloodshot eyes open as that shutter clicked,
Speaker 1: Like there's just these little slits of eyes. I could
Speaker 1: be wrong, Like maybe there was a bright flash, maybe
Speaker 1: he was looking into the sun. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: he looks pretty baked. Yeah, just I'll just call it.
Speaker 1: What yes, Yeah, So so Dave in nineteen eighty nine, right,
Speaker 1: he had long blonde hair with like flippy, flappy, feathery
Speaker 1: wings and who comes to mind right away. I don't
Speaker 1: know why, but it's Duff mccagan from Guns and Roses.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of guns and roses. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: but but the facial expression is more like an axual
Speaker 1: rose kind of. I don't give a shit, right for sure,
Speaker 1: And this is this is probably offensive to Dave, considering
Speaker 1: we both know he's a Pantera fan. So he's a
Speaker 1: Pantera fan. He's all about filling salmon, and we're calling
Speaker 1: him at it was eighty nine. It was eighty nine,
Speaker 1: he was He might not have got there yet. I know,
Speaker 1: I'm calling it like I see it anyway. He's wearing
Speaker 1: a classic eighties foam trucker hat and the photo is
Speaker 1: very washed out, like over flashed, so I can't make
Speaker 1: out what's on the hat, but I'm sure if I could,
Speaker 1: it would be another point of ridicule. But I can't
Speaker 1: see it. Dave, you can fill us in later. But
Speaker 1: it's okay because the rest of the ensemble leaves plenty
Speaker 1: to talk about. Man, it does, and we will cover that,
Speaker 1: but like first we should mention it is a fishing picture. Theoretically,
Speaker 1: this is about fishing, and so Dave's holding two pike vertically,
Speaker 1: one in each hand, and there's no consistency to the hold,
Speaker 1: which also again supports my theory that he was baked.
Speaker 1: He's got like he's got one under the gill plate
Speaker 1: and then he's got the other just like with the
Speaker 1: clamp down behind the head. Yeah, and neither of these
Speaker 1: are particularly big fish, right, but that's okay. Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have plenty of those photos too for my my childhood,
Speaker 1: but they are mostly obscuring what appears to be a
Speaker 1: Bart Simpson T shirt, which perfect for that that era.
Speaker 1: It just nails it. I cannot tell exactly which version
Speaker 1: of the very popular Bart Simpsons could. It's either cowabunga
Speaker 1: dude or don't have a cowman like those are your
Speaker 1: only options for those of you who are there. Uh.
Speaker 1: As an added bonus, Dave's got his his folded sunglasses
Speaker 1: hanging down from the collar of the shirt and again
Speaker 1: not the greatest photo. I can't tell if they're aviators
Speaker 1: or blue blockers, you know, like those big sunglasses that
Speaker 1: the old people are, like my dad would fit around
Speaker 1: their reading glasses when they went fishing because they would
Speaker 1: polarize them. I was kind of thinking like he was
Speaker 1: going for terminator glasses. Oh, the blades, because remember when
Speaker 1: that was cool, like the terminator glass that you know, dude,
Speaker 1: this is the Oakley blades, of course I remember, but
Speaker 1: this would have been years after TEA one and not
Speaker 1: yet T two, So I don't know. That's very unsubstantiated.
Speaker 1: That's they look like. But um, it's it's really the
Speaker 1: waist down. It kind of takes the cake here. It's
Speaker 1: David's Southern hemisphere. So yeah, southern hemisphere of Dave. And
Speaker 1: I recognized this style of shorts because I lived in
Speaker 1: this era. But I'm struggling, like, I don't even know
Speaker 1: what you'd call them, Like what you don't know? Oh
Speaker 1: I do? Those of my friend are jams, Absolutely, those
Speaker 1: are jams. Like you guys out in Jersey had your
Speaker 1: zoo baz or whatever, but those of us living in
Speaker 1: the serf culture, we had jams, and they're similar. They're
Speaker 1: similar in that they had the obnoxious busy patterns and
Speaker 1: the neon colors and all that other stuff. But they
Speaker 1: were short shorts. Yes, they weren't parachute pants. They were
Speaker 1: short shorts. And so now you know, also I did
Speaker 1: look this up similar to zoo baz jams are still
Speaker 1: around and still available in case you're, you know, in
Speaker 1: case you're looking to diversify your summertime. I'm wardrobe Joe, Dave,
Speaker 1: you should have held on it. Then they're probably worth
Speaker 1: some vintage, some coin and the vintage clothing thing. So no,
Speaker 1: I had shorts that looked like that, I just don't
Speaker 1: remember calling them jams. Um anyway, So we have the
Speaker 1: geometric shorts going on. But Dave's also wearing bicycle shorts
Speaker 1: and I know this because they're extending past the jams.
Speaker 1: And like, you're a couple of years older than me,
Speaker 1: I think Dave is too, like an eighty nine My
Speaker 1: mom was still dressing me. But like, was that a
Speaker 1: look like it's like a very faith no more from hell. No,
Speaker 1: you did not just do that. You did not. You
Speaker 1: did not just disparage Mike Patton in my presence. That
Speaker 1: guy's a musical genius. I didn't say it wasn't a
Speaker 1: musical genius. But when I look at it, if someone
Speaker 1: if someone's gonna do that, that would have been an
Speaker 1: Anthony Keytis move. Okay, I see that, I see Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fair. That's what I would say. Red hot chili pepper,
Speaker 1: but I can't. I don't think that was a thing.
Speaker 1: At least I didn't know that was a thing. I
Speaker 1: never did that. But the point you're making, despite my
Speaker 1: taking issue with digging on on Mike Patton, your point
Speaker 1: is valid. The bike shorts, they really are perplexing, yes, uh,
Speaker 1: and they like they make the whole ensemble kind of
Speaker 1: difficult to pin down. Like, yeah, it was kind of
Speaker 1: making sense. And then and then you got like the
Speaker 1: bike shorts, right, and if you work, if you try
Speaker 1: and take the thing as a whole, and you work
Speaker 1: from the top down, Dave goes from that kind of
Speaker 1: badass you know, he's got the tough hair and the
Speaker 1: axel rose snarl to the Bart Simpsons kind of childish shirt.
Speaker 1: And then and then we get into the bottom half, Yeah,
Speaker 1: with the spandex sticking almost to his knees, and I
Speaker 1: feel like he's he's a long way from finding his
Speaker 1: confidence at that point. Like it just a general goes down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But anyway, we do love this shot, yes, and can
Speaker 1: resonate with this shot. And we cannot thank you enough
Speaker 1: Dave for sending it. Uh. We promise we're gonna get
Speaker 1: a little token of our appreciation headed your way just
Speaker 1: as soon as you get us your physical address, and
Speaker 1: we promise not to show up your house unannounced. Don't forget.
Speaker 1: You can now see Dave shot on me and Miles
Speaker 1: Instagram pages. That's atwater Miles and at Joe dot Samelli
Speaker 1: one thirty eight and if you want the chance to
Speaker 1: be roasted here, send your embarrassing fishing photos to Bent
Speaker 1: at the meat eater dot com. Oh man, this is
Speaker 1: definitely one of the best segment ideas we've had, Joe totally.
Speaker 1: We've all made such such bad choices in our younger
Speaker 1: fishing exploits, and yet we were so proud of ourselves
Speaker 1: we just had to like capture it on film, I know.
Speaker 1: And you look at a lot of these photos and
Speaker 1: like you remember when they were taken. At the time,
Speaker 1: it's like you were so proud of that shot and
Speaker 1: thought it was so cool, and then you thought it
Speaker 1: was awkward, and now like you have to classify these
Speaker 1: as historical gems, like they're all just historical gems. Timecame.
Speaker 1: Oh they really are. I couldn't have said it any better.
Speaker 1: They are gems. And speaking of gems from the past,
Speaker 1: before we bid you all a fine farewell. Joe is
Speaker 1: going to dig into a classic fly whose name has
Speaker 1: been corrupted. Shall we say you really nailed it for
Speaker 1: this week's end of the line segment. It's got it
Speaker 1: all booze, drugs, crime, sex, and even some fishing too. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not loud enough, Burt. The Mickey Finn streamer is
Speaker 1: very simple. It's tied on a long shank hook and
Speaker 1: that shank is covered in silver tinsel, sometimes roub for
Speaker 1: her pleasure, sometimes not. Three small pinches of bucktail are
Speaker 1: tied in at the head, one yellow, one red, then
Speaker 1: another yellow to create a little hot dog in a
Speaker 1: bun effect. And that's it. No feathers, no flash, no pickles,
Speaker 1: no relish. Bucktail tinsel and a tapered head of black thread.
Speaker 1: It's what she would call a classic Atlantic salmon style tie,
Speaker 1: and it's been around as long as other notables in
Speaker 1: the categories, such as the maygog Smell, Black Ghost and
Speaker 1: Blue Charm. Oddly, my end of the line nod to
Speaker 1: the Mickey has little to do with it being a
Speaker 1: personal fish killer, but I can't get to that part
Speaker 1: until we talk about the flies. Rather bizarre and most
Speaker 1: likely at least partially bullshit laced past. According to my research,
Speaker 1: it was developed in the nineteenth century by Charles Langevin,
Speaker 1: a noted tire based in Quebec, and originally it was
Speaker 1: called the Red and Yellow for obvious reasons. Now here's
Speaker 1: where shit gets weird, so pay attention. Apparently in the
Speaker 1: same general time frame, there was a saloon keeper in
Speaker 1: Chicago named Mickey Finn who concocted a tranquilizer of sorts
Speaker 1: that some news sources referred to as knockout drops that
Speaker 1: he would slip into the cocktails of unsuspecting patrons and
Speaker 1: then rob them once they were passed out. This is,
Speaker 1: of course where we get the term slip of a mickey,
Speaker 1: which is kind of a classier, old school cool way
Speaker 1: of saying somebody got roofied over at the fantasy show bar.
Speaker 1: For a time, the Red and Yellow was supposedly renamed
Speaker 1: the Langevin after its creator, but that never really caught on.
Speaker 1: So fast forward to the nineteen thirties and now the
Speaker 1: Fly is also sometimes referred to as the Assassin. That's
Speaker 1: thanks to outdoor writer John Alden Knight, who coined the
Speaker 1: term in his writings. Now his writings caught the attention
Speaker 1: of another writer, Greg Clark of the Toronto Star, who
Speaker 1: went on a fishing trip with Knight to see what
Speaker 1: this assassin fly was all about, and they caught a
Speaker 1: ton of fish. So when Clark wrote up his account,
Speaker 1: he proclaimed the fly was as dangerous as a Mickey Finn.
Speaker 1: The name has stuck and remains today. There are also
Speaker 1: some rumors that the fly's name is somehow tied to
Speaker 1: legendary silent film actor Rudolph Valentino, who was believed to
Speaker 1: have been killed by a Mickey Finn cocktail that he
Speaker 1: received after pissing awful waiter. But that's unsubstantiated compared to
Speaker 1: the rest of this which is sort of substantiated. At least.
Speaker 1: The Mickey Finn takes me back to my early teen
Speaker 1: years when my friend Mark, who was the best man
Speaker 1: at my wedding, and I were just figuring out this
Speaker 1: whole fly fishing thing. This was years before the junkyard dog, drunken, disorderly,
Speaker 1: double deceiver, ice picked, cheechily, sex, dungeon, prowl, necklace, sculp Zilla,
Speaker 1: and ten thousand other flies I loved fish. Nowadays, they
Speaker 1: didn't exist. Then we had Mickey finns, muddler, minnows, wooly buggers,
Speaker 1: and maybe a black ghost tied with poor quality feathers.
Speaker 1: Those made up the streamer corner of our one tiny flybox. Now,
Speaker 1: the buggers we figured out worked real quick. The muddler
Speaker 1: was my go to streamer for years, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: we really didn't catch a whole lot on those Mickey finns.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's because we didn't give him a fair shake
Speaker 1: or didn't really know how to present them, but regardless,
Speaker 1: it became somewhat of an inside joke. During tough days
Speaker 1: when our buggers and muddlers and pheasant tails weren't really
Speaker 1: getting it done, one of us would inevitably suggest on
Speaker 1: the way home that we probably should have been throwing
Speaker 1: Mickey finns all day. Ironically, it was not an Aha
Speaker 1: moment on a trout stream that turned me back onto
Speaker 1: the Mickey finn years later. It was an AHA moment
Speaker 1: on the Stripers surf, right around the time I was
Speaker 1: getting infatuated with stripping big meat for big browns. It's
Speaker 1: common in surf casting to rig a light deceiver fly
Speaker 1: on a dropper loop ahead of your plug or metal.
Speaker 1: The light fly doesn't hinder casting or the action of
Speaker 1: the main lure, and it creates the illusion of one
Speaker 1: bigger baitfish chasing a tinier baitfish. So not all the time,
Speaker 1: but from time to time in extra dirty water or
Speaker 1: in shroud a being finicky, and I think offering a
Speaker 1: buffet of size options might be beneficial. I might tie
Speaker 1: a little dropper loop ahead of my double d and
Speaker 1: slip them a little extra mickey. That is all we
Speaker 1: have for you this week. But for the budding YouTubers
Speaker 1: out there looking to harvest ideas for your channels, we
Speaker 1: explained how not to toast sandwiches on a mister buddy heater,
Speaker 1: the true origins of donkey sauce, how to turn a
Speaker 1: mediocre bottom feeder into a multibillion dollar industry, and the
Speaker 1: lie you should absolutely never, under any circumstances discuss at
Speaker 1: a bar. Yeah, don't do that. Not good. Not good.
Speaker 1: We hope all of you find something interesting, worthwhile and
Speaker 1: productive to do this weekend. But if that doesn't pan out,
Speaker 1: go check out the Meat Eater's YouTube channel and get
Speaker 1: caught up on the fur Hat Ice Tour. I promise
Speaker 1: it's the best ice fishing show you've ever seen, and
Speaker 1: after you've done that, now send an email to Bent
Speaker 1: at the meat eater dot com. Tell us what you've
Speaker 1: been up too lately. Let us know what you crave
Speaker 1: and what you loathe. Keep those bar nominations, awkward fishing photos,
Speaker 1: salebin submissions, and your mother's maiden names coming. We collect
Speaker 1: and archive all of them, and we do love hearing
Speaker 1: from you so much that we do. And remember, ice
Speaker 1: fishing really is more than just a justification for day drinking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a justification for day drinking and eating five brots
Speaker 1: Kill bosses or Italian sausages, depending on where you live,
Speaker 1: in a single afternoon