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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Ball, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. However, this is not an ordinary

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Speaker 1: episode today, friends, we are joined by the one, the only,

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Speaker 1: Brian Ray. Amongst many of his accolades, he is the

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Speaker 1: creator and host of On Tour, a podcast by Black

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Speaker 1: Barrel Media in conjunction with I Heart Radio. You might

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Speaker 1: be familiar with the It Was Names, and Brian has

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Speaker 1: an extensive history as a lifelong musician and as true

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Speaker 1: story guitarist for Sir Paul McCartney, amongst again many many

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Speaker 1: other works. Brian, thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: on the show today. Thanks so much. Ben. Hey, Matt, Hey, no, Hey, Brian,

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Speaker 1: how are you man? I'm good. I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: We're happy to have you and it's always fun to

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Speaker 1: listen to your own CV rattled off at the top

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Speaker 1: of the show. But Ben really, um absolutely is not

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Speaker 1: kidding when he says, this is among many other incredible

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Speaker 1: things that you've done throughout your life. Um, you also

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Speaker 1: have just recently launched a series of vinyl singles through

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Speaker 1: another person that we're all a big fan of, Mr

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Speaker 1: Little Steven van Zant of Silvio from the Sopranos fan

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Speaker 1: and of course the E Street Band. But tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the single series that you're doing

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Speaker 1: with with Steven Well. I had uh, I had been

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Speaker 1: on the Underground Rage and been played on that radio

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Speaker 1: station at Serious twenty one for years with a band

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Speaker 1: that I started called the Bayonets, with my buddy and

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Speaker 1: my partner in the Bayonets, a guy named Oliver Lieber, who,

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Speaker 1: if that sounds familiar, yes, is the son of Jerry

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Speaker 1: Lieber of Lieber and Stoller, the writing duo and production

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Speaker 1: duo that basically built rock and roll, you know, Jailhouse

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Speaker 1: Rock to stand By Me Too, under the Boardwalk Poison Ivy. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: so he's my buddy. We got a lot of play.

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Speaker 1: We were discovered by Marine van Zante, Little Steven's lovely

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Speaker 1: wife one night, upon the release of our first single

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Speaker 1: called Sucker for Love, Well, she went and played it

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Speaker 1: for Stephen and he reached out to us the next

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Speaker 1: day and said, I love this. Who are you? Can

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Speaker 1: I get some more of it? Do you mind if

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Speaker 1: I do an edit? You can use the edit or not.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna play on the radio anyway. And that started

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Speaker 1: a long, long relationship that's just gotten better and better

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Speaker 1: over the years and it's awesome. Finally, when the Bayonets

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Speaker 1: wrapped up, little Stephen came to me and said, uh,

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Speaker 1: would you be interested in a singles deal with my label,

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Speaker 1: Wicked Cool Records? And I said, of course I would,

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Speaker 1: And here I am five singles later and ready to

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Speaker 1: do five more. You're a busy, busy man, sir, which

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Speaker 1: I think is something that uh we were made us

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Speaker 1: even more excited to speak with you today because in

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Speaker 1: a very real way, your career is one that millions

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Speaker 1: of people dream of having or even you know, and

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Speaker 1: this is not hyperbolic. There are people who dream of having,

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Speaker 1: you know, one gig like the like the many that

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Speaker 1: you have. And when we were we were researching this episode,

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Speaker 1: of course, people have read the title We're talking a

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Speaker 1: little bit about Beatles conspiracies, which we all thoroughly enjoy.

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Speaker 1: But when we were researched this episode, I have to

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Speaker 1: be honest, I kept thinking like, is there a way

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Speaker 1: that we could get Brian to tell us some of

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Speaker 1: those behind the scenes war stories, because how many tours

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Speaker 1: have you been on at this point? Can you count

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Speaker 1: them that at all? God, it's incalculable. Um well, I

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Speaker 1: started straight out of high school and that's a long

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Speaker 1: time ago, so uh, you know I started out. My

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Speaker 1: very first gigs were with Bobby Boris Pickett and the

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Speaker 1: crypt Kicker five doing the Monster Mash at six Flags

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Speaker 1: over Texas and stuff like that, so, um you know,

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Speaker 1: I was seventeen men And that led into UH being

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Speaker 1: introduced to Edda James by a guy named Phil Kaufman,

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Speaker 1: who has the main UH character in one of the

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Speaker 1: most outlandish rock and roll stories of all time, involving

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Speaker 1: Graham Parsons. Anyway, that's a story for a whole another podcast. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Phil Kaufman was also Edda James's UH road manager, introduced

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Speaker 1: me to her, and that led to fifteen years touring

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Speaker 1: with Edda James, opening for the Rolling Stones and many

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Speaker 1: other things, and that led to twenty more years of

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Speaker 1: working with her in the studio and such. So that's

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Speaker 1: just one of the many things that I feel really

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to have stumbled into somehow. Wow. So, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to pivot this a little bit. Brand.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you kind of on a

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Speaker 1: high level about the concepts of chance versus versus fate,

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Speaker 1: and I want to do it via one word. That

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Speaker 1: one word is freedom. So when I think about, um,

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Speaker 1: at least all the events that I've read about and

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Speaker 1: heard about in your life thus far, and you think

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Speaker 1: about all the events in the world that have occurred

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Speaker 1: since you've been alive, Um, it really boggles my mind

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Speaker 1: when I think about what brought you to New Orleans

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Speaker 1: in February of two thousand two, and UM, I just

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Speaker 1: really want to know what it was like for you

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Speaker 1: regarding chance versus freedom to be at the Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: with Paul playing a song called Freedom at that moment

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Speaker 1: in history. Yeah, so interesting. I mean this was back

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Speaker 1: before I had a cell phone, if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: and I still had, uh, you know, a plug in

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Speaker 1: what cordless phone with voicemail, But that day I happened

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Speaker 1: to pick up the phone on a Monday when I

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Speaker 1: got a call from David Kahn, the great producer and

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Speaker 1: arranger who is associated with Paul McCartney for years and

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Speaker 1: years and still will sometimes pop in and out. Well.

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Speaker 1: David Kahn said, I got your phone number from ab

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Speaker 1: Lear Boreal Jr. We're putting together a band to go

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Speaker 1: do one song in advance of the super Bowl two

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Speaker 1: thousand two, and we're looking for guitar player who plays

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Speaker 1: a bit of base. Would you be up for coming

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Speaker 1: in meeting with me? I see if you might be

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Speaker 1: the right guy for that, and I said hell yeah.

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Speaker 1: He says, can you be here in a half hour?

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Speaker 1: And I said no, but I can be there in

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Speaker 1: an hour. And the truth is I could have been

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Speaker 1: there in a half hour, but I was literally shaking

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Speaker 1: now and I didn't want to show up like drooling,

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Speaker 1: So I thought I would take just a half hour

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Speaker 1: to breathe a little bit, get my act together a

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Speaker 1: little bit, because this was all very exciting. Now. Flip

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Speaker 1: back a couple of weeks. I had told a but

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Speaker 1: my birthday party that I would love a shot at

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Speaker 1: That was what I said when he talked about future gigs,

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Speaker 1: possible gigs with Paul. So obviously he had given my

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Speaker 1: name to David Kahn. And now there I was with

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Speaker 1: David Kahn over at Henson Studios, talking to David Kahn,

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Speaker 1: picking up a Hoffner base, picking up a telecaster, and

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Speaker 1: just talking about music. It wasn't a high pressure, uh

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Speaker 1: you know, audition or something. It was more just kind

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Speaker 1: of a get to know your thing, just he and

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Speaker 1: I and UH. At the end of about an hour,

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Speaker 1: he said, well, you know, I've had a really good time. Man,

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Speaker 1: I have a good feeling about this. There are other

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Speaker 1: people they're looking at I know that, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your name forward. And um, I got

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Speaker 1: a call the next day saying can you be on

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Speaker 1: a plane Wednesday to come to New Orleans to play

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Speaker 1: with Paul McCartney at the Super Bowl. And I was like, hell, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. So, I mean it is um something, It

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Speaker 1: is chance, and it is preparedness because if not for

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Speaker 1: the many years with Edna James and Laura Brannigan and

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Speaker 1: Johnny Halliday and million from without all of those things,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm not the right guy for Paul. So it's chance,

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Speaker 1: it's opportunity. But it's also preparation, but it's also being

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Speaker 1: a kid who embraced freedom to do what the hell

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Speaker 1: I wanted. So if that kind of helps wrap it up,

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Speaker 1: I've never thought about it that way, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was lucky to have parents who didn't force me to

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Speaker 1: do like go be a policeman. Yeah, I had the

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Speaker 1: freedom to do what the hell I wanted, and I

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Speaker 1: knew from the age of three that's what I wanted. Wow,

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Speaker 1: And this this is something that I think is inspiring

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Speaker 1: for a lot of the people in the audience today

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Speaker 1: to hear because you know, Brian, we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners who are on on the younger side, you know,

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Speaker 1: in pursuing music, and this is a secret adults don't

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Speaker 1: always admit to high schoolers and younger people. That's a

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Speaker 1: terrifying time, you know what I mean. And there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of external pressures. So I think it's powerful, uh

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Speaker 1: for us to be able to share this story of

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Speaker 1: you being being capable of having your vision and pursue

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Speaker 1: we and I completely agree with with your statement that

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Speaker 1: um chance does exist, but a chance and preparedness are

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Speaker 1: what I think creates the amalgamation we recognize as opportunity.

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Speaker 1: And with this in mind, I have to I have

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Speaker 1: to ask what was your what was your first impression?

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Speaker 1: Like we're meeting Sir Paul McCartney for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Things have happened so quickly. Right, We've got this call.

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Speaker 1: Can you be here in thirty minutes to get on

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Speaker 1: this plane Wednesday? It's a movie montage and now here

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Speaker 1: you are, well, you know, Uh, suffice it to say,

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Speaker 1: I was really nervous. If I was nervous to meet

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Speaker 1: David Kahn. Okay, this is like times a hundred. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm in New Orleans. Now it's the day of the

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Speaker 1: evening that we're going to have a dinner together in

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Speaker 1: this big, beautiful ballroom and a certain old hotel. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I am freaking out now, And because you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a generational thing, like people of

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Speaker 1: my age were there. I was sitting on the floor

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Speaker 1: when the Beatles you know, arrived on as Sullivan Show.

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Speaker 1: You know, for us in America, that was our first

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Speaker 1: visual take now and England, of course, they'd been seeing

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Speaker 1: them on all sorts of shows and in clubs and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that since well sixty two. For us, it

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Speaker 1: all happened at once. There are two singles out already,

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Speaker 1: and here they are. And so for me, it's a

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Speaker 1: big deal when you know he's gonna walk into the

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Speaker 1: room and you're gonna turn around and meet him. So

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Speaker 1: I was out of my mind. I thought, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna walk around the French Quarter for about three hours,

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Speaker 1: see if I can just like spill off some of

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Speaker 1: this extra spark that's coming off of me right now.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I did. I walked around the French

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Speaker 1: Quarter and you know, did a little tourism and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. Did it get rid of my nerves? No?

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Speaker 1: It didn't. But uh, there I was. It was about

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Speaker 1: seven thirty or eight, and we're all in this ballroom.

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Speaker 1: He's not there yet. There's a bar set up and

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Speaker 1: a big, beautiful table, about seventeen of us. I've now

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Speaker 1: met some of his inner circle, you know, some of

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Speaker 1: the you know, direct production staff and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: but a very cool, small group. Uh. And I'm standing

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Speaker 1: there having a cocktail and the lights are low, and

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Speaker 1: it's this big sort of Rococo beautiful room with long

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Speaker 1: curtains and lush setting, and and suddenly everyone's energy just

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Speaker 1: changes and it gets very quiet in there, and I say,

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Speaker 1: he's just entered the room, and my back is to

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Speaker 1: the door, you know, like I didn't want to like

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Speaker 1: have my jaw dropped on the ground or something weird.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so yeah, I'm a bit of a fan,

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Speaker 1: what can I say? And so finally he makes his

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Speaker 1: way around and I've turned around and and uh, he

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Speaker 1: walks and he goes, you must be Brian. He puts

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Speaker 1: out his hand, he goes, I'm poll and uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was the beginning of what's now twenty years, you know,

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Speaker 1: and in the blink of an eye. Uh. Anyway, he

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Speaker 1: made me feel very comfortable. He was very nice and

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Speaker 1: very warm. He was with his then wife, Heather, and

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Speaker 1: we sat down to have a beautiful dinner for us,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it was a really nice way to start.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's it's it's so interesting hearing you describe

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Speaker 1: this from the perspective of someone who, like all of us,

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Speaker 1: I think it's huge Beatles fan, You in particular, experienced

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Speaker 1: it when it was just like happening at its height. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I actually kind of so weird. I'm a strange person.

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Speaker 1: I tend to put things off that too. Many people

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Speaker 1: are really really into. So I sort of slept on

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Speaker 1: the Beatles for quite a while and then all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden it just hit me and I was just

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Speaker 1: you know, all in um. But the thing is about

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Speaker 1: the Beatles. Part of what I just said is they

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Speaker 1: were just so they hit the zeitgeist and kind of

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Speaker 1: caught people's imaginations in a very you know, popular music

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Speaker 1: kind of way. Obviously, when they first arrived, they were

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Speaker 1: more kind of a traditional pop group and you know,

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Speaker 1: huge legions of fans freaking out airports and they arrived,

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Speaker 1: and then of course they went into a more kind

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Speaker 1: of mystical period where they started experimenting with sound and

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Speaker 1: creating the kind of you know, um uh should the

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Speaker 1: standards really for what you know, multitrack production is today

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Speaker 1: and some of the best and coolest and weirdest sounding

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Speaker 1: records I think ever made. And because of that and

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Speaker 1: that intersection of this like clean cut kind of like

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Speaker 1: pop group then becoming this much more kind of refined

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Speaker 1: and out there and you know, um, very experimental different

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Speaker 1: band in such a short period of time. It makes

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Speaker 1: sense to me that you know, so many things are said,

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Speaker 1: there's so many legends and lore kind of wrapped up

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Speaker 1: in all this because they were doing so much for

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Speaker 1: the first time. Uh. And one of those things, if

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Speaker 1: you guys don't mind that I'd love to just jump into,

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Speaker 1: is the idea of recording things backwards. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there have there's been much made of the

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Speaker 1: idea of backwards masking, and you know, um, congressional committees

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Speaker 1: playing records backwards and saying that there's satanic messages or

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Speaker 1: you know, particularly evangelical types that are you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's the devil is in this Beach Boys single or whatever. Um.

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Speaker 1: From the perspective of the Beatles and them talking about

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Speaker 1: it was just kind of them having a bit of

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Speaker 1: fun and trying some interesting things out in terms of

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Speaker 1: recording techniques, and they thought it sounded cool. But the

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Speaker 1: idea of hiding messages in records still kind of sticks

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Speaker 1: around today. UM. I just kind of wanted to, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, have a little bit of a brief chat

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Speaker 1: about backwards masking and and then where you stand on

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Speaker 1: that and uh, and particularly we'll get into some you know,

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Speaker 1: examples within the Beatles catalog. I would like to answer

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Speaker 1: that in reverse. Let me play the record back resort.

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Speaker 1: Just he's into it. He says, he's into it, and

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Speaker 1: we can move and move forward. Okay, So well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, the truth is is what I know is

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Speaker 1: the Beatles began to take a little bit more of

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Speaker 1: a front seat approach to their own sonic uh palette,

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Speaker 1: you know. And they had gone from being a four

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Speaker 1: piece rock band, pop band to now getting into being

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Speaker 1: invited into the studio by George Sir George Martin and

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Speaker 1: Jeff Emrick. Uh. For most of the time they were

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Speaker 1: being invited in, and as soon as they did, all

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Speaker 1: bets were off. You'd see their hands up on the

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Speaker 1: board and they'd get involved in the mixes. And then

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Speaker 1: they said, well, what would happen if we recorded the

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Speaker 1: drums really fast and then played them back slower, and

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Speaker 1: then wouldn't they sound bigger? And we could do that

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Speaker 1: with a piano or guitar. So they do a lot

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Speaker 1: of sort of double speed recording or half speed recording

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Speaker 1: to get the opposite effect, and somewhere along the line, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, you you get things like uh uh that

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Speaker 1: the time where for tomorrow never knows? Of course, Famously,

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Speaker 1: one of their most psychedelic and indulgent studio masterpieces where

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Speaker 1: they literally went into tape library and found all these

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Speaker 1: sort of sort of like calliope bits, and then Paul

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Speaker 1: would go record a guitar part really slow and then

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Speaker 1: play it back super fast, and then chop it up

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Speaker 1: and put it into this recording and tomorrow never knows

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Speaker 1: that John Lennon mostly UH composition, but Paul McCartney and

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Speaker 1: George Martin and the whole band joining in for production

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Speaker 1: UH featured what is now known as the very first

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Speaker 1: drum loop because that's just a couple of bars of

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Speaker 1: ringo played over and over and over again. Fascinating. Well,

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Speaker 1: now that's done all the time in popular music and

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Speaker 1: rap music and and hip hop. Looping is the thing

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Speaker 1: you do. Anyway, that is one of the first known

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Speaker 1: examples of that. UM and the backward masking very interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: The backward recording, Well, the Beatles did do it here

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Speaker 1: and there. UM. Whether there are actual hidden messages in there,

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Speaker 1: that's uh for others to say, but it was interesting,

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Speaker 1: Like I think it was Tipper Gore al Gore's wife

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Speaker 1: came to Congress to, you know, decry that this new

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Speaker 1: backward satanic masking it was going you know, and uh man,

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Speaker 1: oh man, that was like a funny time but you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was interesting. I think for the people

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Speaker 1: who did it initially it was just something weird and

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Speaker 1: new to do. Later, as soon as Tipper said that,

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Speaker 1: then everyone did start putting in backwards messages as people

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Speaker 1: against her own goals by getting people riled about it,

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Speaker 1: like what this lady is telling me I can't do this, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna do a ton of this um and

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Speaker 1: exactly like no, exactly, but just to stay on backward masking,

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Speaker 1: for one, you can't get away that easily. Brian Ray

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Speaker 1: for your money. Is it Cranberry Sauce or I Buried Paul?

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Speaker 1: Or turn me on dead Man? Or no? Is that

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Speaker 1: what it is? We'll turn on audio roar shot. At

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Speaker 1: that point people tend to hear what they're expecting. They'll hear.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly I think what Brian's getting at in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways to um. But turn me on dead

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Speaker 1: Man was the one from the White album on Revolution

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Speaker 1: number nine, UM where folks were thinking that was a

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Speaker 1: reference to probably the biggest Beatles conspiracy there is, which

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Speaker 1: is the idea that Paul was you know was killed

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Speaker 1: in a car accident and then replaced by a doppelganger

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Speaker 1: for the duration of his life. I do, I do

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Speaker 1: want to bring this to you, Brian. There is one

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Speaker 1: one part of backwards masking recording that Paul McCartney talks

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Speaker 1: about that I thought was pretty interesting and gave us

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a look into his personality because uh,

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Speaker 1: unlike you, uh, most people have not met Paul McCartney

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Speaker 1: and worked with him, so so we're kind of gleaning

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Speaker 1: his personality from these interviews, from these autobiographical works, and

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Speaker 1: this stood out to me. Uh, He's in this interview

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Speaker 1: a while back, and he seems pretty game to kind

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Speaker 1: of play with the fans who are getting a little

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Speaker 1: maybe a little off the off kilter there, and he admits,

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Speaker 1: he says, oh, yeah, we did add backwards recording backwards

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Speaker 1: masking to Free as a Bird, and we did it

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00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: because we thought it was hilarious and we give everybody,

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Speaker 1: all the all the nutty fans, uh something to do.

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Speaker 1: Does that? Does he have that kind of personality like

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Speaker 1: is that the kind of Frankie would pull? Yes. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: He's a man of great humor and he's a very

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Speaker 1: hard working man and an exacting man, and as he

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Speaker 1: should be, and he has very strong ideas that are

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Speaker 1: wonderful to explore, but he also just wants to have

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Speaker 1: a laugh. Also, Paul isn't one of those people that's

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Speaker 1: behind some you know, some big gold gate in a

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Speaker 1: gilded cage. He's He's like a human who walks around

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Speaker 1: and goes to dinner and demands as normal a life

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Speaker 1: as he can possibly get. So he is in touch

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Speaker 1: with what fans have thought and believe, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he gets out a kick out of it. So I

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Speaker 1: find it funny that he would do that, uh, you know, deliberately,

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Speaker 1: just to play with the fans and have a go,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a laugh. Well, Paul is for a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, then return with more from Brian

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Speaker 1: Ray and we're back. You know, I really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: pointing out one of those one of those struggles that

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Speaker 1: people after at a certain thresh hold of prominence and

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Speaker 1: celebrity always encounter, which is just a let me not

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Speaker 1: have to be on for for a second, you know,

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Speaker 1: let me go get dinner, right, and especially if you

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Speaker 1: have so many adoring fans, Uh, this can be a

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Speaker 1: struggle and I this makes me want to pivot to

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Speaker 1: something that I'm sure, um, I'm sure has affected Paul

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00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: in many ways and has affected a lot of people

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00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: like you worked closely with him. It's what Nol just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: which is the big daddy of all the Beatles conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: the idea that Paul McCartney is somehow not Paul McCartney

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Speaker 1: as well said, uh that the the original Paul McCartney

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Speaker 1: was killed in a car crash, and then there's this

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Speaker 1: whole story about how there was a lookalike contest, because

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Speaker 1: that's how you keep a secret. Um have you Have

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Speaker 1: you ever talked to him about this? I have no

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Speaker 1: idea how you would bring that up in conversation. Yeah, Paul,

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Speaker 1: are you dead? I wouldn't tell you to say to

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00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: you know, when this is all wrapped up, whenever that

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00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: is that. Uh. Finally he would turn to me and say, Brian,

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Speaker 1: I just want you to know that my real name

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Speaker 1: is Randall. I'm not, in fact Paul McCartney. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: You know what anyway, Uh, you know it's uh to

392
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Speaker 1: be the subject of so many fantastical sort of conspiracy

393
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: is a real honor. That just means that people are

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Speaker 1: so into you that they want to embellish your I

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00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: guess mostly eight year career and keep it going, keep

396
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Speaker 1: it going today. You know, I think that's a way

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00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: for people to keep the Beatles alive. And uh, it's

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00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: funny that they would choose to say one of them

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Speaker 1: is dead by keeping him alive. But you know, anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's get into it. Tell me what the

401
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: data is, give me, give me some of the evidence,

402
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: and let's go. Man, hit it all right. Yeah, so

403
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: here are the facts. The story of the conspiracy theory

404
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: that Paul McCartney dies really reaches the mainstream way back

405
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: in October twelfth of nineteen sixty nine. There is a

406
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Speaker 1: DJ named Russ GiB He's hosting a show on w

407
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Speaker 1: K and R sixty nine. Everybody loves the Beatles, everybody

408
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: knows who they are, and he gets you know, these

409
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: are like this is the heyday of call in radio, right, So, uh, someone,

410
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: a mysterious caller reaches out to us on air and

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00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: and it's like, you need to put on Beatles wide

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Speaker 1: album Spin number nine, number nine intro from Revolution nine backwards,

413
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: and the like hangs up like big, I've already said

414
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: too much vibes, and so you know, it gives a DJ.

415
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: He's game for it. He placed it on the air,

416
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: and he is the one who claims, you know, I

417
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: hear something and it sounds to me like they're saying,

418
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: turn me on, dead man. And then from that moment

419
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: the story spreads like wildfire. Uh. And there's there's one

420
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: there's one hilarious quote from Paul himself about this where

421
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Speaker 1: he said, I'm alive and well and I'm concerned about

422
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: the rumors of my death. But if I were dead,

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Speaker 1: I would be the last person to know. Excellent answer.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. It reminds me. I know you mentioned

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00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: this before, Ben off air. It reminds me a lot

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Speaker 1: of the Mark Twain quote, the rumors of my death

427
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: have been greatly exaggerated, you know, to the idea to

428
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: be able to comment on your own death is delightful

429
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: and ironic. And it sounds like he took it in stride.

430
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: But I mean, there were like headlines about this. This

431
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: wasn't just some fringe e thing. I mean, clearly you

432
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: know it is in many ways, but it made the news. Right.

433
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: Are you saying that newspapers needs stories to sell more newspapers.

434
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: Is it normal news enough? Apparently not. But anyway, and

435
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: back then, even back then, we've got a headline from

436
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: the World News Daily Report that says former Beatle Ringo

437
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: star claims the real Paul McCartney died in nineteen sixty

438
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: six and was replaced by a lookalike. When when did

439
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: this happen? Well, that that came out in the mid too,

440
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: I know for sure, for sure, but it did still

441
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: make the news at the time. But what is the

442
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: deal with that? I don't even remember? Call this happenings

443
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: like a very disreputable This sounds like a very disreputable

444
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: publication too, by the way, Yeah, but it's sold papers,

445
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: it's sold clicks, I guess, and online advertising, I suppose

446
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: the same same thing. But this is the mid two

447
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: thousand teens and like around I believe, and this got

448
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: published in a bunch of other places. Is so people

449
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: picked up that story. Oh my god, Ringo star talked

450
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: to this thing called the Hollywood Inquisitor and spilled the

451
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: beans about all this stuff. Holy crap. What and even

452
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: I you know, in in preparing for this episode reading

453
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: the article, my blood gets gets a little excited. I'm

454
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: like Oh my god, Ringos like telling the deep dark secret.

455
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: And the reason why it's compelling is because there's so

456
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: many details. It's like any good yarn that's been spun.

457
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: These details are so fine and just they're perfect for

458
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: for making you feel like something, like something is real. Um.

459
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: I hate to even burst the bubble immediately, but it

460
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: turns out this publication is a satirical news site, very

461
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: much like The Onion, and and it says it on

462
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: on their website. Yeah, but who's going to click to

463
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: the about section? Yeah, no time for that. We just

464
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: heard from Ringo. It's the last word. I remember when

465
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: those rumors came out. It was the late sixties and

466
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: uh no, when the rumors came out about saying it

467
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: had happened in sixty six, I remember that, and uh

468
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. I remember somebody engaging me on one

469
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: of my Facebook pages about it, and he was dead

470
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: serious about it, and I just thought, oh my god,

471
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: this guy, there's no talking to him about it, and

472
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: so I think I just muted him or something like that,

473
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: because I mean, what are you gonna say? Um No,

474
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that that's Paul McCartney. I've been working

475
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: with for twenty years, and not Randall or Billy Shears.

476
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: I thought Billy Shears was Ringoes alter ego because he

477
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: sings the he sings the Little Help with my Friends,

478
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: and they kind of introduced him as Billy Shears. Yeah,

479
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: the idea behind that album was pretty brilliant. I think

480
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: Paul talks about that being his idea that this Sergan

481
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: Pepper's Onnely Heart band would give them freedom to be

482
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: someone other than the Beatles everyone had come to know,

483
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: and thereby giving him there there's that word again, the

484
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: freedom to do something like, um, you know, good morning,

485
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: or like uh, little help from my friends or you know,

486
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: day in the life, just to really stretch out a

487
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: little farther than they ever had before in production and

488
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: in sort of the palette, you know, the production palette

489
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: of sounds, you know, they could be this other band.

490
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 1: Well yeah, and plus Billy Shears had to learn how

491
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: to play all of Paul McCartney's songs anyway, So okay, okay, Well,

492
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: no one said the people involved into have a work

493
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: ethic right where. That's that's day one stuff. In earlier research,

494
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: we're looking into this and um, I was trying ardently

495
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: to find some things that might exist in the world

496
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: of conspiracy that might have a little bit of sand

497
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: So just just the shout out one that I also

498
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: don't think it's true. There there's a theory circulating and

499
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: it's an older theory, um that had to had to

500
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: have started on the internet, man, where someone says, no,

501
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney is alive. It's all the other Beatles who

502
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: have died and been replaced. That's what they don't want

503
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: you to know. And I could like see somebody on

504
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: Facebook just deciding that in response. So I went through

505
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of these ideas and one

506
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: that I found intriguing and one that I think you

507
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: are probably one of the best people to explore this

508
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: idea with us is the following how likely is it,

509
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: how likely or unlikely is it that the Beatles somehow

510
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: still have unreleased music? And I'm asking this because, um,

511
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: it's something that seems to come up, not just more

512
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: than once, but come up kind of cyclically, like every

513
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: so often there will be someone who makes a claim

514
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: that there's you know, there's some tape lost somewhere that

515
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: might be recovered or it's being held in secret, and

516
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: we know from the creative process of of all musicians

517
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: that you can end up with a lot of things

518
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: that are you know, you feel like maybe they're but

519
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: they're not ready yet to release. So to me, it

520
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: seems plausible that maybe an individual in a group might

521
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: have some musical projects of their own that they they've

522
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: kept to themselves. But what do you think. Have you

523
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: heard people tell like like that guy on Facebook, if

524
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: you heard people reach out to you and say, no, man,

525
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: tell me the truth, where's the rest of the Beatles music? Yeah?

526
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: Well that is really intriguing because, to be honest with you,

527
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 1: we know a lot. Having been around Paul for almost

528
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: twenty years now, he's he's very chill and very forthcoming

529
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: with a lot of stuff. Uh. But that is one

530
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: thing that if it were true and there were some

531
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: deals tracks hidden, he would probably keep that close to

532
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: his vest because that's a very important property. And there

533
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: are bill in people who would like to know about that,

534
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: you know, and so that is something he might, if

535
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: it were true, might not tell us. So I can't

536
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: give you a definitive answer, but it is plausible that

537
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: it could be more unreleased Beetles music. Who knows so Brian,

538
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: are you telling me that you've never played the songs

539
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: left is Right and Right is Wrong? Or Colliding Circles

540
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: or deck chair, the famous deck chair or pink Litmus

541
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: paper shirt. These these songs are not familiar to you,

542
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: not yet played those. I'm sure they'll make the set

543
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: list should we tour again after the pandemic? Should they

544
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: crack open the vaults, because those are actually some names

545
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: that are thrown around as being potential as secret hidden

546
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: Beatles songs. I'm ready for all. The Litmus paper shirt,

547
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: that's fantastic. What was it called again? To what shirt?

548
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: Pink Litmus paper shirt? Pink Litmus paper shirt, Colliding circles,

549
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: left is Right and right is wrong? It's like an

550
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: allegory deck chair, which sounds like the most like absolutely

551
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: compelling song ever song about a deck chair. But if

552
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: anyone could do it, it was the Beatles could do

553
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: a compelling chair, or leave it off an album because

554
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: it just isn't very good. Yes, well that's the what's

555
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: interesting about that that track list is for a long

556
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: time it was presented as sort of a a smoking gun.

557
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: But I believe what happened is that as the story

558
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: took off, the person responsible for saying these the person

559
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: responsible for saying these tracks existed, came out later and said,

560
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: I made those up. That was a hoax. I did that,

561
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: And then the people who believed him originally now decided

562
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: he was lying and they were like, I don't know,

563
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: Big Beetle got to you, man, there's something that's it's amazing.

564
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's there's something about human nature which I

565
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: think we could all take away from what's gone on

566
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: for the last year or so, not to get political,

567
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: human nature. We do want to believe in some unseen,

568
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: unknowable truth that really you can find if you go

569
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: out and do your own research. That was the whole

570
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: thing that a lot of the conspiracy theater. Conspiracy theater,

571
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: I like that we are here. That's kind of where

572
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 1: we are. Come on, that's what we are anyway. Uh,

573
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: that's where I think a lot of conspiracy theories they can,

574
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: you know, live on and on and on because they're

575
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: really are asking questions and people are inquisitive and they

576
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: want to know, and this makes them feel like they're

577
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: doing their own research. You know. Yeah, it's funny you

578
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: mentioned that because it's been coming up a lot in

579
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: some of our recent episodes, especially about events of the

580
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: past few years. Bryan, there's something just fundamentally more comforting

581
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: about the idea of an infallible, secret superpower, even if

582
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: they're evil. That's more comforting than the concept of the chaotic,

583
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: uncaring universe. No one's in charge, no one's at the

584
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: driver's wheel. So I think you nailed it. It's interesting, Yeah,

585
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: it's It's not that different than people, um sort of

586
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: finding comfort in religion. You know, it is a sort

587
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: of um, bespoke religion. You can make up your own

588
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: set of guardrails, facts that fit you, that you're happy with,

589
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: that makes you feel good that you did your research.

590
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: I don't know's it's cool whatever makes us tick. Yeah,

591
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: you know. So, speaking of doing our research, I'm gonna

592
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: put you in the hot seat now right ready for this.

593
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: Eighteen years after you're initial performance with Sir Paul, you

594
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: sat down for an interview with the Musicians Hall of

595
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: Fame and Museum. Looking looking at a transcript here, let's

596
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: see at twenty two minutes and thirty seconds, Brian, you say, quote,

597
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: you can imagine and being Paul McCartney since birth, and

598
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: being famous since you were fifteen. I mean, wow, that's

599
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: a lot to carry around here. It comes, but I

600
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: think he is the best Paul McCartney in the world. Yes,

601
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: I'll go on record as saying that you referred to

602
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: him as the best Paul McCartney in the world. M Brian,

603
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: did they get to you giving oxygen to the idea

604
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: that he isn't the only Paul I I What I'm

605
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: really going for is is that you know it's it's

606
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: tempting and understandable to be trapped by that level of fame,

607
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: a level of fame that I'll never know, and be

608
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: honest with you, I'm fine with that. I don't need

609
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: to be that famous, um, But to be trapped by

610
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: it is something altogether different. And I think that the

611
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: two Beatles that are no longer with us, you know,

612
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: John and George, I think that they had a different

613
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: relay ship with that level of fame. I think that

614
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: George uh was more reclusive, UM, and I think John

615
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: came in and out of reclusive behavior. But Paul just

616
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: won't do that, you know, UM, And you know it's understandable.

617
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: So when I'm saying he's the best Paul, he's the

618
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: best possible Uh, you know, I've got to be very

619
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: careful here. They are conspiratorcises that are gonna think I'm

620
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: I'm sidestepping this. He is the best version of a

621
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: guy who's been famous that you could possibly be. Now,

622
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: that makes perfect sense. And he seems like a lovely

623
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: dude all around, very warm and welcoming. And I can't imagine,

624
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, having that level of fame and not turning

625
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: into some sort of megalomaniacal monster. He clearly he has

626
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: not done that. He has continued to grow gracefully, and

627
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: he also obviously still rips as a live performer. And

628
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: his new record ain't bad either. Let me tell you

629
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: the one that just came out. I think it's really cool.

630
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: And then then he's also clearly into working with up

631
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: and coming, you know, kind of indie artists, as he

632
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: put out the whole Companion record that's got like St.

633
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: Vincent and back and not that they're up and coming,

634
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: but it has Phoebe Bridgers is on one of the tracks.

635
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: It's like reimagining, So he seems to really be He

636
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: didn't have to do that, right, That's something he obviously

637
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: cared enough to do to make the time to do

638
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: this companion record, and uh, he doesn't have to make

639
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: records anymore, for he doesn't want to. But he he

640
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: made one all by himself with you know, his own

641
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: home studio and produced it. And I just think that's

642
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: super cool and I very much respect that. And we'll

643
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: pause for a quick word from our sponsors, then return

644
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: with more from Brian Ray and we've returned. Okay, so

645
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 1: I think we can put paul Is dead to bed.

646
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: He he I think he's not dead. Guys, what do

647
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: you think? I don't know any outstanding questions here, so

648
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 1: I I appreciate you, uh bringing us back to that. No. Um,

649
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: I think it's it's interesting because we did an examination

650
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: of that a number of years back, and we did

651
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: it primarily because because of the resilience of this concept,

652
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: even though it is very easily disproven. There was something

653
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: that I wanted to explore on a on a larger

654
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: level with you, Brian, which I think we were kind

655
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: of touching on already, which is, you know, you said

656
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 1: something really beautiful just a few minutes ago, and it's

657
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: something that I have not heard before when you said

658
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: these in a way, these conspiracies are being created by

659
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: people who want to keep something they love alive. And

660
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: that is one of and I'm not being I'm not

661
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: exaggerated blowing smoke here. That is one of the most optimistic,

662
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,479
Speaker 1: beautiful takes I've ever heard on these um on these

663
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: types of theories, because what we're talking about is something,

664
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, that can really wear on a person's mental

665
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: well being, maybe even on their soul, when you know,

666
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: fame at a certain level becomes a cage. And what

667
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: what I have to ask is, if you look at

668
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: the world conspiracies, you know, there's some about actors right there,

669
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: there are plenty about politicians, but out of the majority

670
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: of celebrity conspiracy theories, they seem to center like specifically

671
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: on musicians pretty often. Why why would you say that

672
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: is or have you noticed that what what do you

673
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: think makes people feel so compelled to create conspiracies around

674
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: musicians specifically? Interesting? I think that one of the components

675
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: of that might just be that at the time when

676
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: the Beatles came into fame and were in everybody's living

677
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: rooms and on everyone's mind and television sets and everyone

678
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: in the British invasion, and we were all swept up

679
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: by this new wave. This is so long before social media,

680
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: and they lived on mystery. That was part of what

681
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: they were selling was they were able to put out

682
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: what they wanted you to see. Yeah, the Beatles did

683
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: Christmas greetings and they did this and that really sweet

684
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,720
Speaker 1: cute stuff. Uh. And they would then tour. The Stones

685
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: would go on tour, The Beatles would go on tour.

686
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 1: But they showed you what they felt like showing you.

687
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: They gave you what they wanted to give you. So

688
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 1: you're really left there in a dearth and a sort

689
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: of a void to fill in some of the blanks.

690
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: There wasn't a ton know. Owner said, they weren't on

691
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: every talk show to be interviewed all the time. So

692
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: I think in that void people loved them so much

693
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: and as I said, want to keep them alive that

694
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 1: they'll just fill in because it's pre social media, you know, dude,

695
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: I love I love that, Brian, and I think there's

696
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: something if you take that and he combined it with

697
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: the intimacy that's talked about in the audio medium that

698
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: a lot of times with regards to podcast has talked

699
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: about as an industry, how intimate this this is where

700
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: you're talking to someone or you're listening to someone constantly

701
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: just through your ears. I'm imagining in the sixties in

702
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: a car, listening to a song over and over and

703
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: over as it's being played in your living room with

704
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: your speakers you've got set up with your vinyl. My

705
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: dad would listen to Beatles records just on repeat. Just

706
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: sit down in the living room and listen to Beatles records.

707
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: And that intimacy that you feel you have with those

708
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: individual songs, with those individual musicians, and the voices that

709
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: you're constantly hearing, I think that is really making that

710
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: connection even deeper. And and like you said, living on

711
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: every moment, on every word that's written in a tabloid.

712
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: When Paul sat down or you know, the Beatles sat

713
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: down to be interviewed, every little detail becomes the most

714
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: important thing that's interesting, you know. And another factor that

715
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: you just sort of reminded me of music performed by

716
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: people like the Beatles and largely the Stones and a

717
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: lot of these other very influential artists is personal and

718
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: it's written by them. These days, you'll see an awful

719
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: lot of the pop artists where songs are written by

720
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: ten people. So you're talking about something it's very important.

721
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: There is an intimacy. So those headphones are right on

722
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: your ear and Paul is singing really perfect sweet you

723
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: know hey Jude, or or you know John is singing

724
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: Julia in your headphones. Is very intimate, you know um,

725
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: and so you do form a connection with them more

726
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: than you would an actor. An actor is reading somebody

727
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: else's words, and as a viewer you might know that.

728
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 1: But as a listener to someone, you have adopted this artist,

729
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: the Beatles. They are sort of extended family, and maybe

730
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: there's something to that that uh, that relationship, you know,

731
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: kind of I know, fosters a little bit of an

732
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: imagination to fill in some of the blanks in the

733
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: spaces that have been left for you to fill in.

734
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: And that's part of the you know. I think the

735
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: the academic term for it is a para social relationship.

736
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: We we have people speaking to us, even if you

737
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: know they might lyrics might sound abstract on on one

738
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: track or another. I believe that. I believe it's safe

739
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: to say at this point people who listen to the

740
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: Beatles have a collection a very specific maybe not entire song.

741
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: It's very specific moments in a song that speak to

742
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: them on on this intimate human level. And when you

743
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: have this, when when your brain is telling you that

744
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: you have formed this social relationship, then we see the

745
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, we see the beautiful interconnectivity that can have

746
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: up And if that's the Jedi side of it, then

747
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: the scythe or dark side of it is when people

748
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: believe that they can start making demands or presumptions of

749
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: folks that they've never met, as though they are owed something,

750
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: as though they are you know, this is what I

751
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: would ask my dad to do or whatever. Right. And

752
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: and what I love about your point is before the

753
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: age of ubiquitous information, this was this was part of

754
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: your fandom, right to read tea leaves in every word.

755
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: And I have to ask you this is just this

756
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: is just an opinion question. But in from your perspective,

757
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: having seen both sides of this social coin, Uh, do

758
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: you do you think one was better than the other

759
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: or were these just a natural evolution? Are there ever

760
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: times when you're like, you know, social media, maybe we

761
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: should take a step back or is it more like

762
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: forward to the future. Well, it's a question. And uh,

763
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: there is no putting the genie back in the bottle

764
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: or the toothpaste back in the tube. It is what

765
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: it is. I would also say that we're all super

766
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 1: high on it right now. It has reached a zenith,

767
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: especially over the last sort of four years. Let's say,

768
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 1: Uh the interaction is sort of boiled over. Um, and

769
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: it has been a breeding ground for a lot of

770
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: maybe not as constructive or playful conspiracy theories. Uh so

771
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: to it. Agree, it is a damaging influence, but there's

772
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: no putting it back. And yeah, it would have It

773
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: would be great if we could just turn it all

774
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: off at once, but it ain't gonna happen. You know,

775
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: that would be cool. But what would I do with

776
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: half of my day now? Uh? Fair? I would you know,

777
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: no more doom scrolling? But you could you could just

778
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: practice all of the iconic riffs that you get to

779
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: play all the time. Yeah, those five songs that Nold

780
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: just told us about. I could get started on those

781
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: and do something constructive with my life. Deck Chair, deck chair,

782
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: dex yair chair. I'm so pumped for deck chair and

783
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: pink litmus shirt. You guys, I can't even express my

784
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: my enthusiasm. Um. I think this is a really interesting

785
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: place to take the conversation. I mean it really that

786
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: I agree with Ben. I thought it was very insightful,

787
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: the idea of conspiracy around an artist or around you know,

788
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: the lore. To me, this is like invented lore in

789
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: so many ways that maybe there's a grain of truth.

790
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: That's sort of what we always talk about, like on

791
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: the show, we try to find the there's the grain,

792
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: and there's sort of the pearl that sort of forms

793
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: around the grain. And within those layers, you know, there's

794
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: lots of different perspectives and there's lots of truth, and

795
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: then there's lots of you know, misinformation. Um, but this one,

796
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: it really does seem like none of these were necessarily

797
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: started with maliciousness that Paul is dead. One was that

798
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: thing more started out of concern earn right. It's like

799
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: we're worried that Paul's not okay. Paul tell us you're okay.

800
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm okay, guys. The whole thing was bloody ridiculous,

801
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: and they're like, we don't believe yet. Da of course,

802
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,479
Speaker 1: of course doppelganger Paul would say that, you know, of course,

803
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,839
Speaker 1: I think of course you would. But I think it's

804
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: a really good point. It really is something that has

805
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: started out of reverence and out of you know, these

806
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: mythical beings that really aren't mythical beings at all. As

807
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure you now are very comfortable with. You know,

808
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 1: you have that moment of anticipation meeting this person that's

809
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: very much larger than life. But now that you've toured

810
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: with him and dined with him and spend time with

811
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 1: his family, you know him to just be a mortal guy,

812
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, who's a pretty reasonable and easy to get

813
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: along with guy for someone that's been through what he's

814
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: been through and had the level of fame at such

815
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: an early age that he's had. Um, I would say

816
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: he seems like a pretty down to earth dude. Uh.

817
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: And I think you're probably lucky that you get to

818
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: tour with him and maybe not some others that that

819
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: that aren't quite as down to earth and cool. That's

820
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: a good point. Yeah, Like I said, he's the best

821
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: whole McCartney in the world. I'm sorry, No, this is perfect.

822
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: We're still working on what we're gonna call this episode, Brian,

823
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: So it might be that, uh, because you've chosen out

824
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: of all the Paul McCartney's that's the best. Uh. This

825
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: this is an absolute pleasure and I have to I

826
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: have to come cleek here. You know, in our exploration today,

827
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, we wanted to be really careful not to

828
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: ask you a thousand questions that you've had to field

829
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: a thousand times. And well that's when we were taking

830
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: this to a larger conversation because one thing that I

831
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: noticed about all the observations that you and we have

832
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: made today is that they are structurally there are things

833
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 1: set to continue, you know, and in the world of

834
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: musicianship and fandom and stadium concerts, there it seems like

835
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: there will always be something in the zeitgeist that creates

836
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 1: this this lore, like Matt Noel we're saying, and with

837
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: this in mind, I do have to ask you about

838
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: like the one quote unquote conspiracy theory that was able

839
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: to substantiate the idea that Uncle Sam was in some

840
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: way spying on John Lennon. I have to ask you, Brian,

841
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: was there has there been a time in your career

842
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: or in your travels, because you know international as well,

843
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: where you thought you or your fellow musicians might be

844
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: being followed or monitored by people other than obsessive fans. Yeah,

845
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: it's interesting you say that that you asked that. In

846
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: the early days of being engaged at Facebook and stuff,

847
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: I did start to feel like, oh, wait a second,

848
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: this is very big brotherish and what if they're monitoring

849
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: me what to and I put a tape over my

850
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: camera on my computer and all that stuff. Yeah, there

851
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: are times when that does occur to me. Um, but

852
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: I feel pretty secure and safe that uh, you know,

853
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: I've turned off my microphone for all of my apps,

854
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: you know, and I try my bed. It is kind

855
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: of freaky though, when you're you know, Mandy was just

856
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 1: talking about watching something on television and then she turns

857
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: on her phone and suddenly those those actors and that

858
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: show is being advertised on her Instagram feed out of nowhere,

859
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: and so you get a little bit freaky, Like, you know, Alexa,

860
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: just a little less coffee. Just back it off a

861
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: little bit. Stop bugging me, Stop reminding me of what

862
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: I did five minutes ago. I know you want to

863
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: sell me that rug, but I'm not looking for that

864
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: rug today because probably you just bought that rug and

865
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: they keep spamming you with for new rugs. I've never

866
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: quite gotten why that's how the algorithm works. It seems

867
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: like someone ought to address that because it's not very

868
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 1: it's not very heartful. It's just that you have shopped

869
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: for it before, or you looked into it. Yeah, exactly.

870
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: They don't know you bought it or not. They're just

871
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: gonna keep selling you have the damn rug. I love

872
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 1: the idea because would would have first occurred to be

873
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: I was thinking, what on earth is going on? Is there?

874
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: How is there a system that's smart enough to know

875
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: someone might be interested in something, but somehow still at

876
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: the same time not smart enough to know when to

877
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: let off? Like do they really think there's someone out

878
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: there who just bought like a toilet seat and they

879
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: get ads right where toilet seats? Are they really going

880
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: to go? Ah? What the heck? I'll I'll treat myself.

881
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: I'll get another one, you know, just just as a

882
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: little a little me time. That's great, so funny. Yeah, Well,

883
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: hey guys, I I know we have to kind of

884
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: wrap up here. We're getting towards the end of our time. Uh,

885
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: I want to ask you one more question, Brandon. I'm

886
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: hoping you can angle it into telling us about your podcast. So,

887
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: like we started, I started answering the question, and those

888
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: are my dogs. I apologize, and then we'll get into

889
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: into your into your podcast, just tell us all about it.

890
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: So the first part of the question is, uh, you

891
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: swim in circles just that are beyond my imagination as

892
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: a drummer, a kid who grew up like wishing to

893
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: be a musician, wishing to just be around people that

894
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 1: are at your caliber and your peers calibers. Um, what

895
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: what is the weirdest situation you found yourself in? And

896
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: and it could be weird to whatever whatever way you

897
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: would like to use the word weird, But just what's

898
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: the weirdest situation where you thought, man, maybe I shouldn't

899
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: be here? Um? And and what kinds of things then

900
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: do you talk about on your show? Well, I mean

901
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 1: the first part of the question. I think the weirdest

902
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: place to find myself is playing with Paul McCartney. You know.

903
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm mean, I'm a little white kid from Glendale, California,

904
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: and I am just one of eighty million kids who

905
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: dreamed of maybe one day having a chance to play

906
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: with one of the Beatles, you know, And somehow I

907
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: wrestled that little dream down, and somehow Paul McCartney found

908
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: me to be the right guy for these nearly twenty years.

909
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: That's weird. That's an anomaly, you know, that doesn't usually happen.

910
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 1: And I'm very aware of that. I'm very very fortunate. Um,

911
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,959
Speaker 1: they're about seventy nine of those eighty million kids would

912
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: be very good at doing it. There is no it's

913
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: because I'm the best guy for it. It's that, Um,

914
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's weird. And uh to the second

915
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: part though a little bit more on that. There was

916
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: a time when I was very afraid that I wasn't

917
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: going to be able to make a living playing music.

918
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: Things had slowed down. I had had a hit with

919
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: Smokey Robinson in the late eighties, and I'd spend every

920
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: dime of the money that was coming my way, and

921
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: now the checks were gonna get smaller. And it was

922
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: clear to me I was newly sober. I was just

923
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: trying to find my legs again. And I remember saying

924
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: what I call the scary prayer. I said, you know,

925
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: God or higher Power or you know Zeus, whoever is

926
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: out there, you know, if this is not where I'm

927
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: meant to be, please show me that, and please show

928
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: me where I am meant to be of service to

929
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 1: my friends and my fellows and to myself and to you.

930
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: And sometime after that a check came through. I mean,

931
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: I was ready to go deliver food for Pink Dot.

932
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: You know, I was really getting scared. My brother said

933
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: give it another six months. I'm like, oh, thanks a lot.

934
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: Six months. But anyway, somehow, you know, I, um, you know,

935
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: one thing led to another and I was rolling again,

936
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: and and now I'm very glad I didn't go get

937
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: the job with Pink Dot. But you know, my my

938
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 1: podcast called on Tour with Brian Ray by Black Barrel Media,

939
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: along with My Heart Radio, is an exploration of the

940
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: struggle and the sacrifices and the hard work that are

941
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: are necessary to even be in the running for a

942
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: job like playing with Paul McCartney. Like, how do you

943
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: even get that in your head that you could do

944
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: that as a teenager, as a kid, what you want

945
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: to do? What? Right? You're gonna get beat up if

946
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: you admit that out loud at school? You know, like, um,

947
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: so it's like who does that? And I think that

948
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,479
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there. I just think it's

949
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: rainbows and toadstools, you know, it must be just golden

950
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: You're just flying around having nothing but fun. It's like

951
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: a monkey's show or something. It's like hard day's night

952
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: all the time. But it it is a lot of

953
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: hard work, and it's a lot of time off, and

954
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: it's a lot of alone time. And then you get

955
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 1: home from a big fancy tour and it's trash night.

956
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,359
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of real stuff that goes on

957
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: that you have to come to terms with, and it's

958
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: a lot of hard work that I think people out

959
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: there need to know about. And that was how the

960
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: Ontour podcast began, was an exploration of that to share

961
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: with people that it's hard work. We're just other hard

962
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: working people that do have a weird job. Uh. And

963
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: you know, we're just about wrapping up season one and

964
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: this week's guest is uh uh Well, our most recent

965
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: guest is uh Matt Sorum from the Cult and from

966
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: Guns and Roses and Velvet Revolver and it's just been

967
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: a blast, uh And Noel has been a big part

968
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: of our success, and Mandy Wimmer of course sitting over

969
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: there um and it's just been a blast. Man. We've

970
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: been having a great time and we've been doing after

971
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: shows that we dropped every Friday where we talk about

972
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: that week's episode that we just dropped, and hey, man,

973
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: it's just to be honest with you, it's fun to

974
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 1: be new at something again because I've been playing music

975
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: and playing music live and writing music and producing music

976
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: since I was a teen. Okay, so it's fun to

977
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: be new at something because it's scary and it's fun

978
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: and as cool as challenging. Right on. Well, thank you

979
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: so much for doing such an amazing podcast and for

980
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: joining us on our podcast to talk about some kind

981
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: This has been a wonderfully freewheeling conversation. Little Paul McCartney

982
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: a little inspiration thrown in there for good measure. I've

983
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: had a great time, and I hope you did too, Brian,

984
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: thanks again, it's been a blast. Thank you guys so much. Yeah, yes,

985
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much. And folks, if you want to

986
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: hear the inside scoop, if you want to continue the conversation,

987
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: please do check out on Tour with Brian Ray. I

988
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: was earlier no spoilers because you should listen to the episodes. Earlier.

989
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: I was checking out your after show with your take

990
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: on Prince and Prince Oh, that's a that's a story

991
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: for another day. We might have to have you back

992
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: on the show. But uh, but while we're working that out, folks,

993
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: please do check out on tour. Please do, and I

994
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: hope I'm not overstepping here, Brian, Please do go ahead

995
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: and visit Brian Ray dot com, where you can learn

996
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,919
Speaker 1: more about your extensive music catalog, what you've got going

997
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: on currently, what we've got going on in the future.

998
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 1: Is an absolute pleasure to spend time with you today. Listeners.

999
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: Please let us know your take, your take on Beatles conspiracies,

1000
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: Please let us know what you would like to learn

1001
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: more about in the world of music. We try to

1002
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: be easy to find online. Oh one last thing before

1003
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: we do that, whatever you do, you listener who's listening,

1004
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: do not go to YouTube dot com Slash the Bayonets band.

1005
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: Do not go there, and do not listen to Sucker

1006
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: for Love because it will not stop laying in your

1007
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: head for eight years. That's how long it's been there

1008
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: and it will not stop for eight years. Goal achieve.

1009
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: Thank you Matt, thank you Ben, thank you Noel. And

1010
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: one last thing, it was jaed Gar Hoover, not Sam.

1011
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: I knew it. I knew it. Perfect ending we're kind

1012
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: of blowing over that. It's it's it's the one real

1013
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: conspiracy of all those not to blow anyone's bubbles, if

1014
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 1: you're still entertaining them, but that I know of anyway,

1015
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: it's the one that is true. And it was Dick Nixon,

1016
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: that little devious man, asking Jack or Hoover to do

1017
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: him a favor and and tie this guy up because

1018
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: he's getting too much attention being anti war? Now do

1019
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: you really think so? Yes, it is absolutely true. Wow,

1020
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: it's true. And as Hoover was also, I would say,

1021
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: Hoover and Nixon, we're both crazy, but they were crazy

1022
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: in slightly different ways. That's one thing I didn't ask.

1023
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: I meant to ask, like, how do you think the

1024
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: government handles monitoring like activist musicians? Now? You know, because

1025
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: there has to be something to it. Well, you know,

1026
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's the n S a right

1027
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: that's tasked with monitoring. Well, there's just so much noise

1028
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: out there, you know, they would be incredibly bored with

1029
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: what I'm up to, right, you know, searching cute you know,

1030
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 1: pet memes late at night. You know, that's about it.

1031
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: That's all that gonna get out of me. But back then,

1032
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: of course that was very cloak and dagger stuff, you know.

1033
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: And um, well they say that Jager Hoover had a

1034
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: lot of skeletons is in his own closet. So there

1035
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: was an element of him projecting out onto the world

1036
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: his shadow self that he couldn't or wouldn't own. And

1037
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: I'll look, I'll let you guys go and look up

1038
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: what those uh, what those proclivities were all about for

1039
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: Mr Hoover. Oh, yeah, you know, you've just been a

1040
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 1: little more honest than at peace with himself. Yeah, I mean,

1041
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: it's no big deal these days, so what if you

1042
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: want to wear a dress? Mr. To think about this,

1043
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: my parents were both at Kent State University, Brian when

1044
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: all this stuff happened there. And when you think about

1045
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 1: the Students for a Democratic Society and some of these

1046
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: other you know groups that were just college students getting

1047
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: together many times quietly, you know, publicly, but secretly to

1048
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: some extent, to to plan certain demonstrations and you know,

1049
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: certain actual actions. And they only had so much influence

1050
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: within their sphere. Right then you imagine the influence of

1051
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: somebody like John Lennon. I think if you're in some

1052
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: Ivory Tower, you know, at the FBI or wherever, and

1053
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: you imagine the power that could be wielded by somebody

1054
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: like that. Um I bet it is scary for somebody

1055
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: in that position. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, can you

1056
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: imagine you don't know what they're coming up with, and

1057
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: you're John Lennon and you learn or you suspect there's

1058
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 1: a file on you, and then you start seeing that

1059
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: your immigration is getting held up. It's really scary, man, scary.

1060
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, not cool at all. But um man, We'll

1061
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: imagine if you're William Campbell and you know you're like,

1062
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: oh man, I gotta keep pretending to be Paul McCartney.

1063
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 1: Uh what what kind of finally got on me? What

1064
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: about this? I mean, you guys know about that song

1065
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: from I think it was Memory Almost Full called My

1066
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: Ever Present Past on Paul's uh Memory Almost Full album,

1067
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,520
Speaker 1: I believe, and he did a video using a Paul

1068
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: McCartney look alike. A really nice guy and that guy

1069
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: is playing Paul in the video and his way of

1070
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: having a little bit of fun with that as well. WHOA,

1071
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: that's our show, folks. Give us a call. One eight

1072
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: st d w y t K You can also send

1073
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: us an email directly where we are conspiracy at iHeart

1074
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to know

1075
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts

1076
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart radio app,

1077
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.