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Speaker 1: What's up.

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Speaker 2: It's way up with Angela ye, and today we're doing

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Speaker 2: something really special. I've always said that I always like

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Speaker 2: to defer to experts when something is outside of my

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Speaker 2: realm of expertise. And we have Kathy Middleton esquire with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me on the show.

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Speaker 1: I know you were just leaving court, so I appreciate you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, anything to be here to help out the.

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Speaker 2: Cause making some time. So the other day we did

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Speaker 2: have an ask ee caller. He left a voicemail because

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Speaker 2: he was like he couldn't he was too emotional to

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Speaker 2: even talk about it. And he was discussing issues that

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Speaker 2: he was having with seeing his kids.

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Speaker 1: Let's play that call for her right now.

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Speaker 4: I want some advice.

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Speaker 5: How do I get my kids?

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Speaker 3: Big?

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Speaker 5: I ain't seeing my kids in three years before he

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Speaker 5: smelt with my best man own the wed night. So

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Speaker 5: that's why divorce happened. He's better because I found out

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Speaker 5: that she slept with the best band and better do

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Speaker 5: tell me how can I give my kids back?

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Speaker 2: Please? Okay, so you hear his question now. I tried

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Speaker 2: to help him as best as I could. I told

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Speaker 2: him the earlier that he gets a lawyer and establishes

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Speaker 2: some type of visitation, the better it is for him.

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Speaker 2: But I want you to answer as somebody who you

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Speaker 2: deal with family planning, family law, you deal with child support,

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Speaker 2: you deal with visitation, custody, all of those things. So

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Speaker 2: what would you tell somebody he hasn't seen his children.

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Speaker 2: He pays child support, but what can he do?

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Speaker 3: Well, Basically, Angela, you gave him good advice. That's the

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Speaker 3: first thing that he needed to do was to reach

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Speaker 3: out to contact legal counsel so that he could get

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Speaker 3: a petition started for child custody and slash visitation. By

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Speaker 3: doing that, what he will do is he'll start the process,

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Speaker 3: the ball rolling towards getting access, some kind of access

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Speaker 3: back to his children. Because what happened to him is

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Speaker 3: he's become a victim of parental alienation. He's not seeing

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Speaker 3: the children, he's not speaking with the children, no communication whatsoever.

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Speaker 3: The longer the time lapses between the last time he

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Speaker 3: saw the children and the next time he sees them,

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Speaker 3: the likelihood shrinks by the year as to whether or

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Speaker 3: not he will be able to come back into those

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Speaker 3: children's lives. So, if his children are still young in

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Speaker 3: the tender years, you know, under ten that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: The likelihood is very great that the court will issue

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Speaker 3: in order for some kind of standard visitation schedule. It

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Speaker 3: will probably be supervised visits because he has been away

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Speaker 3: from the children's lives for a while, but they will

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Speaker 3: put a regular schedule in place with the goal of

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Speaker 3: having it moved from supervised to unsupervised bi weekly visitation

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Speaker 3: with him. But if the children start reaching the age

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Speaker 3: of preteenhood twelve, thirteen, fourteen, and they're saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know this man, I don't want to be

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Speaker 3: around him, then the court is going to have a

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Speaker 3: difficult time forcing children to have visitation with somebody that

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Speaker 3: they really don't know, who's actually a stranger to him. Today,

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Speaker 3: his job is to really do as much as he

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Speaker 3: can now to get the ball rolling in court and

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Speaker 3: get a case started.

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Speaker 2: So if the child, say, let's say the kid is

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Speaker 2: seven years old, and they're like, I don't want to

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Speaker 2: see my dad, I don't know him, I'm scared of him.

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Speaker 2: My mom has told me awful things about him, then

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Speaker 2: what does the court do.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have a case like that right now in

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Speaker 3: King's County, and so what the court has done is

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Speaker 3: the initial thing that they did was they established a

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Speaker 3: supervised visitation schedule which was being supervised by a social

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Speaker 3: worker who was attempting to reconnect or reunite the child

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Speaker 3: with the father. The problem with these visits is that

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Speaker 3: they were virtual visits, so there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: room for mismanagement in terms of the mother kind of

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Speaker 3: kind of poisoning the child against the father, saying that

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Speaker 3: the child was not interested in the visits and that

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Speaker 3: sort of thing. And when the court realized that that

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Speaker 3: was not a suitable way of trying to reunite these parties,

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Speaker 3: they then moved to a therapeutic supervised visit schedule where

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Speaker 3: we now have an actual psychiatrist who is overseeing the visitation,

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Speaker 3: counseling the parties, dealing with the issues that the child

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Speaker 3: has as a result of having been away from the

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Speaker 3: father for an extended period of time, as well as

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Speaker 3: the issues that the father's having as a result of

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Speaker 3: being disconnected with the child. And so we're seeing a

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Speaker 3: lot more progress take place now the parties have been

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Speaker 3: the father and son has at least been able to

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Speaker 3: see each other and be in each other's presence. It

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Speaker 3: may be within the confines of a doctor's office, but

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Speaker 3: at least the process is beginning to take place for reunification.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've heard people tell stories about how now

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Speaker 2: they realize growing up, my mom was the one that

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Speaker 2: was blacking things from happening and me having in a

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Speaker 2: relationship with my father, and you don't want that to

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Speaker 2: be the case later on in life. But a lot

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Speaker 2: of women did also call up while this topic was happening.

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Speaker 2: And here is what one woman had to say as

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Speaker 2: she left a message.

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Speaker 6: This is a very complicated and such a situation, especially

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Speaker 6: when it comes to survivors and victors of domestic violence.

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Speaker 4: It depends on a situation.

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Speaker 2: Now, all right, so how does a domestic violence situation

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Speaker 2: affect a father's visitation or custody? Because she said, what

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Speaker 2: if there's domestic violence of love, then what happens?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, we often at my office as well, have

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Speaker 3: domestic violence cases, and we have to navigate the murky

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Speaker 3: warders of being able to maintain the integrity of the

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Speaker 3: child's relationship with the father and the father's relationship with

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Speaker 3: the child even in the midst of a domestic violence

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Speaker 3: order protection situation. In New York state. What we tend

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Speaker 3: to do is if there are issues of domestic violence

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Speaker 3: and it's an order protection case, a family offense petition

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Speaker 3: has been filed, the court will usually issue an order

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Speaker 3: protection that has a carve out, and the carve out

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Speaker 3: what that does is it allows a father to be

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Speaker 3: able to continue to have consistent visits with their child

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Speaker 3: even while they're abiding by the terms and conditions of

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Speaker 3: an order of protection. So if an order protection requires

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Speaker 3: a father to stay away from the mother, he still

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Speaker 3: can be able to have access to the child. Let's

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Speaker 3: say if there's visitation, bi weekly visitation will take place

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Speaker 3: drop off and pick up, and say a police precinct

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Speaker 3: or maybe another relative will facilitate the drop off and

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Speaker 3: pick up of the child, and the father will be

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Speaker 3: able to then take the child to their home and

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Speaker 3: continue visitation as usual and return the child at the

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Speaker 3: end of the visit.

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Speaker 1: Now that could be a real issue.

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Speaker 5: Though.

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Speaker 2: Let's say a woman is frightened because she's like, he

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Speaker 2: beat me up, he put his hands on me, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not comfortable with my child being around somebody that

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Speaker 2: has these anger issues.

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Speaker 3: Then what happens, Well, the court generally speaking, will look

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Speaker 3: at where the violence was directed towards So if it

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Speaker 3: was directed towards the woman and only the woman, the

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Speaker 3: view of the court is that it should not be

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Speaker 3: the case that we now cut off all relationship that

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Speaker 3: the father would have had with any of his children.

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Speaker 3: What they will do is say, Okay, that may be

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Speaker 3: an adult issue, and so we're going to try to

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Speaker 3: maintain the integrity of the child parent relationship to the

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Speaker 3: best extent possible. Okay, If, however, the domestic violence involves

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Speaker 3: the children as well, then what may happen is the

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Speaker 3: visitation with the parent and child may be a supervised

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Speaker 3: visitation schedule. So there's going to be parameters placed around

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Speaker 3: when and how and where those visitations can the visitation

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Speaker 3: can take place, and how long it can take place.

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Speaker 2: What if your as a mother, let's say your child's

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Speaker 2: father beats the kids and you don't like that, but

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Speaker 2: that's his form of discipline. What happens in a situation

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Speaker 2: like that where you're like, look, this is abuse.

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Speaker 3: Well, New York State, we're a corporal punishment state, which

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Speaker 3: means that a parent is allowed to engage in a

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Speaker 3: certain amount of corporal punishment against their child. If you're

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Speaker 3: going to do a paddle on the bat on the

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Speaker 3: backside with an open palm, that's acceptable. If you're talking about,

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Speaker 3: you know, beating a child within an inch of their lives,

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Speaker 3: that's not acceptable. So it depends on what the corporal

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Speaker 3: punishment is. Does it go over the line to actually

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Speaker 3: be defined as child abuse or does it stay within

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Speaker 3: the purview of what is acceptable on the New York

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Speaker 3: State guideline.

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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, we actually have one of your current clients

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Speaker 2: on the line. He wanted to call in and talk

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Speaker 2: about his case and what he's been going through.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Darrow, what's up.

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Speaker 4: I'm a father. I have two sons, but my oldest son,

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Speaker 4: he's always been living. We used to live together, he

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Speaker 4: and his mother and myself, and you know, after a

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Speaker 4: few years we went out separate way, but I was

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Speaker 4: still in his mother's life, helping out with her daughters,

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Speaker 4: but also definitely being president for my son, like I

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Speaker 4: was a PTA president of the school. I've been the

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Speaker 4: chairperson for the Sea Pad committee, always been in terns

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Speaker 4: and engaged with the education and cultivation. So he's been

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Speaker 4: living under two groups, which you know, I realized is

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Speaker 4: very difficult, you know for a young a young boy

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Speaker 4: to be in the middle of. But it's been a

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Speaker 4: battle and I felt like it was an unnecessary battle.

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Speaker 4: So he's been living under my roof where I'm also

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Speaker 4: financially responsible for his whereabouts, transization, food, you know, just

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Speaker 4: going out sport, just being financially responsible. And the court

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Speaker 4: case did not recognize that or acknowledge that, you know,

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Speaker 4: they actually held a judgment against me. And it's you know,

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Speaker 4: it's been a really wild chain of events and I

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Speaker 4: just would like to put this behind me because it's

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Speaker 4: really and I will say I allowed it to I

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Speaker 4: didn't know how to handle this, hindered me financially, and

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Speaker 4: that's why I needed Kathy to represent me after ten years.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it took you ten years.

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Speaker 3: No, he went through the experience in his odyssey for

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Speaker 3: ten years.

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Speaker 1: Take ten years to come to you finally find me.

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Speaker 3: And Daryl's is a case in which you have a

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Speaker 3: father who is living with the child. The child was

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Speaker 3: living in his household, but Daryl had an order for

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Speaker 3: support to pay support to the mother who's living somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, you can't bite the apple twice.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can't squeeze blood out of a turn

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Speaker 3: up two times. So what we had to do was

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Speaker 3: to go in. What we're fighting right now is trying

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Speaker 3: to get the child support order modified to reflect the

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Speaker 3: fact that for at least a year or more, this

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Speaker 3: child had been residing under Darrel's roof and being provided

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Speaker 3: for by him, being fed and clothed while the mother

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Speaker 3: was collecting child support.

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Speaker 1: Right, she should be paying him.

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Speaker 3: Touse Supplorier, right, exactly, she should have been paying him.

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Speaker 3: And then the other issue is Daryl has an order

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Speaker 3: in place in which the court imputed income to him

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Speaker 3: based upon what the law believes he should have been earning,

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that in reality he's been looking for

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Speaker 3: employment but just has not been able to a fine

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Speaker 3: employment that would be enough to provide for the order

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Speaker 3: such that it is. So he's fallen behind, he's in arrears,

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Speaker 3: and those reels keep snowbawling.

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Speaker 2: That message up your credit exactly, it could garnish your checks.

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Speaker 1: Fanactly. He's on jail for that.

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Speaker 3: You can go to jail for that, you ultimately can.

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Speaker 3: And so his life has been financially destroyed, and so

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Speaker 3: piece by piece we're trying to reconnect the pieces to

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Speaker 3: the puzzle and get his life back on track, Darrel?

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Speaker 2: Where you hesitant because, as you know, some people are

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Speaker 2: looking at it like lawyers can be expensive and I'm

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Speaker 2: already behind.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry say that again.

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Speaker 2: Well you're also looking at it like lawyers can be

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Speaker 2: expensive and you already were behind on these payments that

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't even have had to pay.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, And what they called pro state litigan,

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Speaker 4: I was there was no lawyer that would take my

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Speaker 4: case because because of what Council Middleton said, you know,

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Speaker 4: like there were no lawyers who were trying to take

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Speaker 4: that case at all. Oh yeah, it was going to

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Speaker 4: be a further expense on top of that, and then

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Speaker 4: just putting my head on the shopping block if I

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Speaker 4: had to go in there and represent myself.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, but I don't know exactly. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad that you guys connected and that this

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Speaker 2: has been working for you. We've been hearing amazing things

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Speaker 2: about Kathy Middleton.

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Speaker 4: She's great, she's great, she's tuned in.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, thank you, Darren. Good luck to you.

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Speaker 2: I hope everything is working at I can't even imagine

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Speaker 2: how stressful.

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Speaker 1: This has been.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so now let me ask you this, miss Middleton.

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Speaker 2: After all this happens, will he be able to get

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Speaker 2: back child support?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 2: How does that happen? And what about the money that

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Speaker 2: he's paid up until this point.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the biggest questions that people ask when

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Speaker 3: they find themselves in a situation where they they've paid

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Speaker 3: what they shouldn't have paid. What will the court system

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Speaker 3: do for them to get their money back? Sadly, the

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Speaker 3: family court system and the office with Child Support Enforcement

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Speaker 3: will not do anything. They won't look the finger to

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Speaker 3: help a father, usually the father who's paying the child's work.

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Speaker 3: They won't do anything to help them. But they'll recommend

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Speaker 3: that they do is to go to civil court and

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Speaker 3: file either small claims case or civil court case if

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Speaker 3: the amount is exceeding twenty five to five thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: or less than twenty five thousand, so he will have

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Speaker 3: to go on his own through another court system, wow,

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Speaker 3: and another case so hard in order to get reimbursement.

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Speaker 2: All right, now we have another call it because, like

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Speaker 2: I said, this day, when we had this ask ye,

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Speaker 2: the phone lines blew up.

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Speaker 1: There were so many people leaving messages.

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Speaker 2: So we have a few, because I know that there's

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Speaker 2: certain things that come to you repeatedly.

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Speaker 1: All right, here's another question.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Hi, my name is Andrew English. I just heard

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Speaker 6: on the radio about you guys talking about fathers that

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Speaker 6: have been alienated from their children. I left the mother

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Speaker 6: of my children when my oldest son was about five

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Speaker 6: and my youngest was about three because we argued every

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Speaker 6: single day. And I have not seen my oldest son

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Speaker 6: since he was five years old. I pay child support

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Speaker 6: every single month. She doesn't let me have phone conversations.

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Speaker 6: I don't get pictures of my kids. I don't get

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Speaker 6: communication from my children or anything. And I took her

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Speaker 6: to court after finding her because she disappeared with my

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Speaker 6: children for quite some time, and after locating her and

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Speaker 6: taking her to court because her family is very wealthy

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Speaker 6: and I couldn't afford but the least expensive attorney. I

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Speaker 6: was forced to take supervised visitation, and my oldest son

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Speaker 6: refused to see me, and my heart breaks every single

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Speaker 6: day of my life because of it.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I heard the emotion in his voice. Yeah, you can

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Speaker 2: hear it when he was discussing that. Okay, so what

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Speaker 2: would you say to this man?

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Speaker 3: Well, for him, I would say to continue with the

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Speaker 3: supervised visits. If he has an order that allows him

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Speaker 3: to have at least supervised visits, he has something that

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Speaker 3: allows him to continue to maintain some kind of connection

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Speaker 3: to his child. The child may not want to participate

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Speaker 3: in a visit, and it may be necessary that those

305
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Speaker 3: supervised visitations become now therapeutic supervised visitation, so that there's

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Speaker 3: a psychologist that comes into the room and helps to

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Speaker 3: draw the bridge between the father and the child and

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Speaker 3: do whatever is necessary in order to make that happen.

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Speaker 3: But he is at all times to continue the visitation

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Speaker 3: because if he fails to, he's basically going to lose

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Speaker 3: his job.

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Speaker 2: It's just giving it up. Yeah, you're also an author,

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Speaker 2: so I see you have this book. Boy at that

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Speaker 2: child support, So talk to me about this book.

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Speaker 3: So this book was written for men who are struggling

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Speaker 3: with child support and paternity issues, which is a big

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Speaker 3: issue that we have here in New York State and

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Speaker 3: throughout the country, and for those individuals who, much like

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Speaker 3: the caller indicated, that they don't have the economic resources

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Speaker 3: to retain counsel, but still want to have good solid

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Speaker 3: information as to what to do and how best to

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Speaker 3: navigate the family court system and the Office for Child

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Speaker 3: Support Enforcement. This book is a good guide to help

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Speaker 3: that person find out how to manage a child's work case,

325
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Speaker 3: how to protect their rights with regard to child support,

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Speaker 3: the things that are necessary to look out for so

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Speaker 3: that they don't end up being in a situation where

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Speaker 3: they're they're drowning and child supporter rears and possibly end

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Speaker 3: ending up going to jail.

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Speaker 1: Right, because that can catch up to you very quick,

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Speaker 1: very easily. Yeah, you can definitely pile on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, one thing that the listeners said also that had

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Speaker 2: a question that she he couldn't find his kids, he

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Speaker 2: couldn't locate them. What about their fathers that want to

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Speaker 2: track down their kids, but they have no idea where

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Speaker 2: this woman is living, maybe she even moved left the state, whatever, Right,

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Speaker 2: how can they then fast track being able to see

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Speaker 2: their kids or even find out where their kids are

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Speaker 2: living well?

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Speaker 3: And that's an excellent question, And I mean, my first

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Speaker 3: response is to hire a good investigator to find out

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Speaker 3: that information for you. But many people don't have the

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Speaker 3: economic resources to do that, right. So that's one of

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Speaker 3: the things that we covered in this book was there

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Speaker 3: are a number of things that fathers can do to

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Speaker 3: track down the mothers of their children and the children themselves.

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Speaker 3: And the best way to do that is if you

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Speaker 3: have an actual child support order in place and the

350
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Speaker 3: Office of Child Support Enforcement is collecting, then there's access

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Speaker 3: to the state and federal locator search, okay, And that's

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Speaker 3: a free search that the court can do for the father.

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Speaker 3: The clerk's office can do for that father to find

354
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Speaker 3: out where these checks are going so that if they're

355
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Speaker 3: going to let's say George or a Florida someplace like that,

356
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Speaker 3: they'll be able to track down what the address is

357
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Speaker 3: so that he could then find the mother for purposes

358
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Speaker 3: of filing a case for custody or visitation. Now, that

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Speaker 3: is only an opportunity that's available for someone who does

360
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Speaker 3: not have an order protection. If there's an order protection

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Speaker 3: that's been issued against a father, then the mother's address

362
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Speaker 3: is going to be considered confidential and the court will

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Speaker 3: never release it for any purpose. And also sometimes clerks

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Speaker 3: will not release the address even to individuals who don't

365
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Speaker 3: have an order protection, and that case you may need

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Speaker 3: legal counsel to help you get that information.

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Speaker 2: Now, another thing that I said when the listener call

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Speaker 2: that sparked this whole conversation was communicating right with your

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Speaker 2: child's mother. Just I was like, just be really careful

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Speaker 2: about what it is that you're writing, if you're texting,

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Speaker 2: sending emails I agree or whatever, because those things I

372
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Speaker 2: was like, always just look at it like this could

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Speaker 2: come up in court and this could be used against me.

374
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Speaker 2: What would you say to people? I know they have

375
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Speaker 2: apps where you can communicate through an app with each other,

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Speaker 2: So can you talk about that a little bit as

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Speaker 2: an alternative?

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Speaker 3: What we have apps? The court system uses a number

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Speaker 3: of them. There's a free one called app Close Parenting App.

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Speaker 3: There's Our Family Wizard is an app that I think

381
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Speaker 3: the fee is about one hundred and fifty dollars per year.

382
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Speaker 3: The benefit of these apps is that what they do

383
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Speaker 3: is they allow a parent to be able to communicate

384
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Speaker 3: and keep to maintain the integrity of what the communication is,

385
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Speaker 3: so that if there's a very bad relationship between the

386
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 3: parties and their communication skills are lacking, and there's a

387
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Speaker 3: lot cursing and threats of bodily harm and that kind

388
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Speaker 3: of thing, those kinds of apps you can't erase any

389
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Speaker 3: kind of threat that you make on that app So

390
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Speaker 3: if a guy's got a mother who's making threats to

391
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Speaker 3: him all the time, she can't you know, text him

392
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Speaker 3: and make a threat and then erase it in the

393
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Speaker 3: way that she could on the regular text message. And

394
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Speaker 3: so he's got evidence in that case to be able

395
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Speaker 3: to bring the court to show that, Okay, I'm being

396
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Speaker 3: verbally abused here, this is the evidence that shows that

397
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Speaker 3: she's verbally abusing me every time I try to reach

398
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Speaker 3: out to find out about the well being of my child.

399
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Speaker 3: And that's the benefit of those Okay, there's a number

400
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Speaker 3: of them all right.

401
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 2: Now, we do have another person who left a message.

402
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: I want to make sure we at least get to

403
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Speaker 2: a couple of them. And then I have some more questions.

404
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,159
Speaker 2: Here's this next caller.

405
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Speaker 7: I get to see my daughter only Thursday to Saturdays.

406
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,959
Speaker 7: I drop her all Sundays, but the other days Monday,

407
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Speaker 7: Tuesday's Wednesdays, I cannot call her. I cannot speak to her,

408
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Speaker 7: not because I have anything with the law or anything,

409
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Speaker 7: but my wife, well my ex wife won't allow me to.

410
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Speaker 7: Even for New Years, I try to call my daughter.

411
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Speaker 7: I have to text us just to hey, please, can

412
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Speaker 7: I speak to my daughter? Just to tell her Happy

413
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 7: New Years. It's three years old. I've never set the

414
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 7: New Years with her, not even a response to like

415
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 7: your back.

416
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,400
Speaker 2: So is there a way to go to court to

417
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Speaker 2: be able to botnate holidays?

418
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Speaker 7: Well, I'm afraid to go to the court because everybody

419
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Speaker 7: I speak to says that I'm going to lose the

420
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Speaker 7: case because it's a mother The mother always wins, So

421
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Speaker 7: I don't even want to take my cancers with that.

422
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Speaker 2: People do say that the mother always wins when it

423
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 2: comes to course. So what do you say to that?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I would say that he's getting some bad advice.

425
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 3: He needs to contact the lawyer right away, because if

426
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,960
Speaker 3: he contacts an attorney, an attorney will lay out the

427
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 3: law to him in very clear terms that as a father,

428
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Speaker 3: he's got a right to have consistent visits with his child.

429
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 3: He's getting some visitation based upon what he's saying, but

430
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Speaker 3: it's not sufficient based upon what the law provides. And

431
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: so under the law, he's supposed to be getting alternative holidays.

432
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 3: He should be getting alternative weekends on those days when

433
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Speaker 3: the child is not in his home or visiting with him.

434
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Speaker 3: He's supposed to be able to have either telephonic or

435
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 3: FaceTime visits with the child. There should be like an

436
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,479
Speaker 3: hour set aside, and most of my cases will have

437
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 3: like seven o'clock every evening the father is allowed to

438
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 3: either have a FaceTime call or telephone call with the child.

439
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 3: That's good, yes, And if there's like if the child

440
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 3: is spending Christmas with the mother, the child will spend

441
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Speaker 3: New Years with the father, and you know, you'll go

442
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 3: odd years, even years in terms of alternating holidays. There's

443
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 3: usually going to be a week long visit that a

444
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 3: father will have in the summertime. Sometimes it's both in

445
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 3: the months of July and the month of August so

446
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 3: that he can be able to take the child on vacation.

447
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 3: It's in Disney World at someplace like that. But this

448
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,719
Speaker 3: this call clearly is not getting meaningful visitation privileges, not

449
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 3: in amount that he should be having. So he should,

450
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 3: you know, pay no attention to what he's being told.

451
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 2: Contact that a mom would be excited that the father

452
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 2: would want to step up. On the on the flip

453
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: side of that, what can a mom do who's child's

454
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 2: father doesn't step up and doesn't provide other than child support,

455
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 2: because you know, money is what it is, but there's

456
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: nothing like quality time. And nobody wants to see their

457
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 2: kids sad or upset when daddy didn't come get them.

458
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: What would you say a mother can do?

459
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 2: What are her rights as far as trying to enforce

460
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 2: a connection.

461
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: I have quite a few cases like that right now

462
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 3: as well. And it's more difficult on that side, because

463
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 3: it's harder to make a man do what he doesn't

464
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 3: want to do than it is to make a mother,

465
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 3: you know, participate in the visitation schedule. The best that

466
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 3: she can do is to try to maintain a strong

467
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 3: relationship with him communication wise, and keep the doors of

468
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 3: communication open so that he understands that when he fails

469
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 3: to visit with the child, if he says he's going

470
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: to come and then doesn't come, it has a dilatorious impact,

471
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 3: a negative impact upon that child. That he's disappointing the child,

472
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: and the child is going to begin to see him

473
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 3: a certain way and paint him in a negative light.

474
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 3: And sometimes I think that's enough to wake up a

475
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 3: man to say, you know, I don't want my child

476
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 3: looking at me, you know, sideline and thinking that you know,

477
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: I'm not a truthful person. A lot of times that'll

478
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: wake them up and shake them into doing the right thing.

479
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 3: But other than that, there's no law that will force

480
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: them to say, come and participate in visitation.

481
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: What if, as a mom, you're concerned about the environment.

482
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 2: What if you're like, I don't like the environment that

483
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: the people that this person's going to have my kid around.

484
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: What can you do in that situation?

485
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 3: The best thing to do is if the case is

486
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 3: in court, is to ask the court to do a

487
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 3: court ordered investigation of his living arrangements. And that's done

488
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 3: for free. It's done under the Administration for Children's Services.

489
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 3: They'll send a social worker out to his home. They'll

490
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 3: speak to any interview anyone who's in the home, including him,

491
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 3: the father, and anyone else who resides in the home.

492
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: They'll go through a thoroughs check of the home, through

493
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: the refrigerator, through the cabinets, through drawers in the bedrooms

494
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: to make sure that the environment is suitable and safe

495
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: for a child to be able to it in. So

496
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 3: there's a lot that can be done there. You should

497
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 3: definitely speak up and say something about it.

498
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 2: What about for people who move out of state, like,

499
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 2: let's just say yeah, relocation cases yeah. The mother is like, look,

500
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: we're getting out of here. New York is expensive. We

501
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 2: want to have a better life somewhere else. And the

502
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 2: father is like, damn, how am I going to see

503
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: my kid if you just up and move. What happens

504
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 2: in a situation like that.

505
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: So in New York State, what we do is we

506
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 3: under the Court of Appeals. There's a lot of cases

507
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 3: that have come down recently in which the court has

508
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 3: said that where there are situations where a mother is

509
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 3: relocating out of the state for economic purposes. Let's say

510
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 3: her job has transferred her or she's gotten an offer

511
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 3: from a new company that's going to provide her with

512
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 3: a larger income. The court generally speaking will allow they

513
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 3: will permit this to take place for her to relocate,

514
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 3: but she really has to be able to show that

515
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 3: there's actual substantial increase and substant improvement in her financial

516
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 3: situation that's going to inure to the benefit of the child.

517
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 3: If she can't establish that case, then the court is

518
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: going to say, no, we're not going to grant the relocation.

519
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: Wow, that's going to make things really hostile exactly between people.

520
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 2: All right, Well, this one's all fantastic information and I

521
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: just want people to feel encouraged because I know and

522
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: time wise, what's the process?

523
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: Because I know it can be really hard to.

524
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: Get a court date even so Let's just say somebody

525
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: is just starting their journey, they haven't even contacted a lawyer,

526
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: and they're like, you know what I heard Kathy Middleton

527
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: esquire on way up with Angela.

528
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: Yee.

529
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to reach out to her office and see

530
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: what I can do. I haven't seen my kids in

531
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: two years. How long would you say that process, normally

532
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: in general, would take just to even go to court.

533
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: It depends. It could take anywhere from six months to

534
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: a year. Some cases can be a little longer and

535
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 3: some even a little shorter, depending upon the circumstances surrounding

536
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: the case. So someone contacts me at my office, my

537
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 3: number is one eight hundred eight one eight three to

538
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 3: three FAM Law one. That's one eight three to three

539
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 3: FAM Law one. If they contacted me today and we

540
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 3: got them into the office and we retained them, we

541
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 3: would probably be looking at a court appearance about six

542
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 3: weeks from now. And you make it a temporary order

543
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 3: for visitation in place pending a final determination of custody.

544
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: You make it any number of things. You make it

545
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: a reduction in your child support. Those cases move relatively

546
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: quickly through the court system. Also depends upon which burrow

547
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 3: that you're located in. Some burrows move more quickly than others.

548
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: How do you get a reduction in child support?

549
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: Just well, in New York stay if there's a change

550
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 3: in circumstances that can qualifies under New York state law,

551
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 3: and an unanticipated change in your financial circumstances that is

552
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: at least results in at least fifteen percent reduction in

553
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 3: your income from what it used to be when the

554
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: order was initially issued, you could be entitled to a

555
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: doward modification in your order for support.

556
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: You've got to handle it, though.

557
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 3: You got to handle it.

558
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 1: You got to handle it.

559
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, the sooner the better, and that is one of

560
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: the things that we are really speaking about today. Handle it.

561
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: You might have been letting something drag out for years.

562
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: Maybe you thought it was going to get better over time.

563
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: Shall calm down, you know, maybe our relationship will improve.

564
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: We've seen it happen with other people, but it's not improving.

565
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: You really do have to be proactive and getting things done.

566
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: The sooner the better, Okay. You also though, work with women,

567
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 2: so I don't want people to think this is just

568
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 2: about men. You do also work with women and helping them,

569
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: because you also have a book helping women child support.

570
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: Get that child support? Yes, and so we half of

571
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: my clients are women, and I help women with child support, paternity,

572
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: custody issues, domestic violence, divorce. You know, we're equal Opportunity office.

573
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: We discriminated against no one.

574
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: Yes, this just came up because of a call that

575
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 2: we had exit and I do feel like men it's

576
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: harder for them people to get help, Like people don't

577
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 2: take into consideration people who want to be in their kids' lives. True,

578
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: and there's some type of hinderance there, And so I

579
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: don't want guys to feel like I just give up.

580
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: This is too difficult, it's not going to happen. I

581
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 2: can't deal with this woman, and I'd rather just let

582
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 2: it go. You know, you gotta make it happen, and

583
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: it might be hard now, but hopefully once you get

584
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: everything established, because I think that's important too. So if

585
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: you can't handle it amongst each other through mediation, you

586
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 2: might have to just go to court and get something

587
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: that is solid.

588
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: And you may end up in a fight, but your

589
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 3: child should be worth or children should be worth the fight.

590
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: You know, people would be like, fight for your kid.

591
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: And you can't just pop up to somebody's house because

592
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: people would be like, yeah, that was me. I would

593
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: show up to the house and I would demand this.

594
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 2: You can't do that might get arrested. You might get

595
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 2: arrested that it'll be even harder for you to see

596
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: a kid later.

597
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: True exactly.

598
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: So let's go the right.

599
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: Route people, and it might be alonger road, but it'll

600
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: be more beneficial exactly for everybody involved. All right, Well,

601
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: I appreciate you so much for coming. I know there's

602
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: going to be a ton of people that are going

603
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: to be hitting you up. But you do have books

604
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: available for purchase too, in case somebody is like, Okay,

605
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: I need to read up on this some more too

606
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: for myself exactly exactly.

607
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: And so they can reach me at one eight three

608
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: to three FAMI law one, or they could visit my

609
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 3: website which is www dot Kathy Middleton dot com.

610
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: I saw you went to Howard, Yes we did, and Temple, yes.

611
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: Temple, Okay, we love that.

612
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: Yes indeed, all right, Well, thank you so much Again,

613
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: it does matter who your attorney is and who represents you,

614
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: somebody that really cares. And we've heard some positive responses

615
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: from people who worked with you, and I gonna tell

616
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: how passionate you are just from our conversation after so

617
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: thank you, Thank you for this valuable information.

618
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: Well