WEBVTT - Weekend Law: Comey Indicted, Wind Farms & Hate Speech 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.480 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossel from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.480 Former FBI Director James Comy was defiant in the face 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:17.759 of a federal indictment on two felony charges of making 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:22.239 false statements and obstruction. My heart is broken for the 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.639 Department of Justice, but I have great confidence in the 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:26.920 federal judicial system. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.920 I'm innocent, so let's have a trial. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:36.200 The unprecedented indictment came just five days after President Donald Trump, 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:40.280 in a post on truth Social demanded that Attorney General 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:45.400 Pam Bondi bring charges against his perceived enemies, naming Comy, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.640 New York Attorney General Letitia James, and California Senator Adam Schiff. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.960 The charges center on testimony Comy gave in response to 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.600 questions from Republican Senator Ted Cruz during a twenty twenty 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:04.399 hearing over the FBI's investigation into Russian interference in the 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:05.600 twenty sixteen election. 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.520 What mister McKay is saying and what you testify to 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:11.440 this committee cannot both be true. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.880 One or the other is false. Who's telling the truth? 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.520 I can only speak to my testimony. I stand by 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.160 what the testimony you summarized that I gave in May 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:22.280 of twenty seventeen. 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:27.560 The indictment follows chaos inside the Justice Department after career 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:32.399 prosecutors advised against bringing the charges, and the acting US 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.959 Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia who resigned was 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:41.480 replaced by one of Trump's personal attorneys, an insurance lawyer 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.760 with no prosecutorial experience. Joining me is former federal prosecutor 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:51.000 Robert Mintz, a partner Macarter and English Bob. What is 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.560 the significance of this indictment, Well. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.160 It's enormously significant in the sense that it's the first 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.560 time of former FBI director has ever been indicted. And 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:07.280 it's also very unusual because the subject of this indictment, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:12.600 James Comey, has been an antagonist to President Trump for 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.119 so many years now, and there was pressure, frankly by 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.239 the White House on the Department of Justice to take 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.960 a look at this case and to bring charges against 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:27.720 the former FBI director. There are long standing, unwritten norms 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.959 that have separated the Department of Justice from the White House, 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.520 and all of the presidential predecessors to President Trump have 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.440 at least to some degree, sought to distance themselves from 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:45.120 the Justice Department's prosecutorial decisions. Certainly, at least in public. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.519 They have declined to weigh in on pending cases, for example, 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.680 especially those types of cases that touched on politics. And 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.880 they have at least spoken publicly about the deference that 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.639 the White House gives to the Department of Justice, tradition 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.560 of independence that allows prosecutors to make decisions about whether 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.280 or not to bring cases based solely upon the evidence 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.280 and the law, without any outside influence or even the 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:17.840 appearance of any political pressure behind the decision whether to 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:19.040 bring a criminal case. 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:24.799 The indictment is less than two pages, so very minimal information. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.320 What do we know about the charges? 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.320 The indictment stems from James Coomy's sworn appearance during a 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:37.800 Judiciary committee hearing on the FBI's handling of investigations into 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:42.200 Russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. What prosecutors are 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:46.680 alleging in this indictment is that mister Komy knowingly misled 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.800 senators on two critical points. First, the government claims that 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.200 Comy falsely denied authorizing anyone at the FBI to act 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.040 as an anonymous source to the media regarding the investigation. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.320 To the charging documents, he did it willfully and knowingly 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.600 and made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement by 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.040 falsely stating to a United States Senator that he had 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.200 not authorized someone else at the FBI to be an 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:18.800 anonymous source in news reports regarding an FBI investigation. The 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:23.240 second charge allegacy Comy obstructed Congress by making false and 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.039 misleading statements basically aimed at impeding the committee's inquiry into 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.039 the FBI's actions regarding the twenty sixteen election. The third 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.560 proposed count, which was an obstruction of a congressional proceeding, 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.240 was rejected, apparently by the Grand Injury. Court. Records show 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.920 that grandeurors did not find sufficient evidence to support that charge, 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.560 and that was dropped from the indictment, which was then 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:49.600 revised and presented to the judge. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:54.040 Though false statements may sound like a pretty straightforward charge 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.880 to prove, actually proving the crime of false statements is 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:03.080 anything but easy. Ask Special counsel John Durham. Two people 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.880 charged by him with making false statements were acquitted at trial. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.280 So what does a prosecutor have to prove? 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:09.600 Here? 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.880 To prove the case of making false statements, prosecutors will 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.279 have to convince the jury that James Comy not only 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.000 made false statements to Congress, but that he did so knowingly, 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.920 and that any false statements that he made were material 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:28.560 to the focus of the Senate proceedings. So essentially, what 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.680 has to happen in these types of prosecutions and why 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.760 they are so rare, is that prosecutors have to get 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.720 inside the head of the person who is making the statement. 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.640 They have to get inside the mind. 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.320 Of the defendant and prove that what the defendant said 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.960 was not only false, but it was knowingly false, that 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.440 they knew at the time they were making it it 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.000 was an untruth, and then they also have to show 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.480 that it was a material untruth. That's why we see 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.720 very few of these types of cases brought, and very 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.320 few of the cases are successful. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.239 Might be even offer in this case because it's based 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:08.080 on Senator Cruz summarizing prior testimony. Add to that, a 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:13.760 twenty eighteen Inspector General's report found that Comy's deputy Andy 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:19.760 McCabe made multiple false or misleading statements and credited Comy's 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.520 version of the conversation over McCabe's. 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.800 The charges heres focused specifically on questions asked by Senator 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:30.600 Ted Cruz about testimony that Comy gave in twenty seventeen 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.200 asserting that he did not authorize leaking information regarding the 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.359 FBI's investigations into then President Donald Trump or former Secretary 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:45.920 of State Hillary Clinton. Comy testified unequivocally to Senator Cruz. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:51.200 I stand by that testimony. Interestingly, Comy's deputy, Andrew McCabe, 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.240 has said that Comy authorized him to leak the information 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.839 to the press. According to a twenty eighteen Justice Department 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:03.000 Inspector General report, Now, when the Inspector General looked into 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.400 this issue, and he looked at the testimony of James 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.280 Comy and compared that to Andrew McCabe, they are directly 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.240 in conflict with one another. And so the Inspector General 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.120 had to look at the credibility of each of those 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.200 speakers and look at the rest of the information that 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.320 was available to make a determination as to who it 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.800 believed was telling the truth. In that case, the Inspector 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.800 General actually found that mister Comy's testimony. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:29.440 Was more incredible. 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.760 They found the Cave's testimony not credible. In fact, it 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.840 concluded in that report the overwhelming weight of evidence supported 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.720 Comy's version of the conversation and not McCabe. So at 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.160 the end of the day, here you've got a he said, 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:48.080 he said situation where two people are giving contradictory evidence 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.880 as to whether or not a conversation took place. And 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.440 those cases are very difficult to prove, because, again, the 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.360 standard of proof in any criminal case is beyond a 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.040 reasonable doubt. And when you've got two witnesses give testimony 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:05.560 that's directly contradictory to one another, it's difficult to prove 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.960 that one of them is absolutely true and the other 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.080 is absolutely false. And in this case, it is compounded 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.440 by the fact that the Inspector General looked at this 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.560 very same issue and the inspector General's report ultimately concluded 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.600 that it was Komy who was more credible and the 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.760 Cabe had not been truthful to the Inspector General during 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:25.560 that investigation. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:30.520 Komy could raise a defense of vindictive or selective prosecution. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.640 I know it's a high bar, but here you have 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.080 the President of the United States in writing demanding that 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.120 the Attorney General indict Komy, and a few days later, 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.840 after turmoil in the US Attorney's office, he's indicted, and 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.679 President Trump again in writing celebrates that it's. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:56.199 Really difficult to say exactly how much of this collateral 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.000 evidence will be admitted and considered by the judge, because 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.160 because none of this has really ever happened before, there 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.439 was clearly pressure brought to bear on the Attorney General 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:11.960 to bring this case. Ultimately, the acting US Attorney in 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.800 the Eastern District of Virginia presented this case to a 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.320 grand jury, and a majority of the grand jurors voted 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.840 in favor of two of the three counts. Probably that 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.720 will then mean that this case will proceed to trial. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.160 Although I think we can expect the defense to raise 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.760 the fact that there was this outside pressure, and whether 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.760 or not a judge will consider that, I think we'll 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.600 have to wait and see. The problem with that defense 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.640 is that it would essentially turn the US Attorney and 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.480 others inside the Justice Department into witnesses as to what 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.560 actually motivated their desire to present this case. So, while 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.880 I think the optics of that are favorable to the defense, 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.760 I'm not sure that a judge will eventually want to 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.160 go down that road. The judge will more likely focus 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:04.280 on the evidence itself and listen to the various defenses 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.120 that James Comey's lawyers bring at trial. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.720 So you think this will get to trial, it won't 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.080 be dismissed beforehand. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.640 Well, again, it's hard to say, but I can tell 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.640 you that it's exceedingly rare for a federal criminal indictment 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.880 to be dismissed on a motion to dismiss basis. In 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.440 other words, what a judge has to do is look 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.520 at the face of the indictment and decides that, based 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.440 upon the allegations in the indictment and based upon the 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.480 evidence that the government has. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.800 No reasonable jury could convict. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.000 Now, it's possible in this case that a judge might 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.320 do that, but again, the facts here are so unusual 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.240 that I think it's very difficult to predict what a 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.559 judge is going to do. So the defense actually has 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:53.000 multiple opportunities to try to derail this case. They'll certainly 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.560 move to dismiss the indictment on the basis of some 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:01.120 kind of improper pressure or impropriety for the grand jury. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:04.480 They'll try to allege that there's not sufficient evidence to 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:05.800 let this case even. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:06.640 Proceed to trial. 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.040 If it gets past that stage, which it likely will, 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.679 they then have another opportunity to move to dismiss at 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.880 the close of the government's case, arguing that no reasonable 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.319 jury could convict based upon the evidence that was presented. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.840 And then the defense can argue again at the close 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.280 of the trial that it should not even go to 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.720 the jury because no reasonable jury could convict based upon 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:32.920 the evidence. And then there's one last opportunity for the defense. 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.240 Even after the case goes to the jury. In the 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.640 event that the jury convicts, they can argue to the 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.800 judge that, despite the fact that the jury returned to 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:46.080 conviction here, that the evidence was legally insufficient, and the 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:50.160 judge actually has the opportunity to overturn the jury's decision. 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.160 And what about the effect on the Justice Department of 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.000 bringing a high profile case like this under pressure and 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.000 despite the reservations of career prosecutors. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.079 Well, I can tell you that political prosecutions and US 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:10.200 Attorney's offices around the country are run by separate groups 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:15.080 within the office prosecutors who specialize in political corruption, and 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.320 when those cases are brought against elected officials or former 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.600 elected officials, they receive the highest degree of scrutiny. In 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.920 other words, the weight of the evidence and the propriety 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:30.120 the charges are reviewed. Not only within the US Attorney's office, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:34.400 but also by officials in main Justice. It gets a 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.880 lot of eyes looking at it, a lot of career 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.600 prosecutors looking at it and weighing in on whether or 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.400 not to proceed. And that's done because prosecutors know that 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:49.040 these types of cases elected government officials, high level appointed 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.800 government officials, these are high stakes, high profile cases, and 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.719 if they're going to be brought, prosecutors want to make 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.199 sure that they're going to win because every time the 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.839 case is brought against a high level elected official or 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:07.920 former elected official, or former high ranking government official, if 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.560 the prosecution does not come back with a conviction, it 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.480 damages the reputation of the department and can have repercussions 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:20.000 about future cases. Because bear in mind that all these decisions, 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.440 at the end of the day in any criminal case 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:27.480 are made by jurors. These are everyday people, and if 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.680 there is a general perception out there that the Department 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.960 of Justice is overreaching and bringing cases that it shouldn't 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:40.840 be reaching, jurors may become more skeptical of these cases 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.040 in the future. Historically, when an assistant US attorney stands 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.040 before a jury, they bring a certain amount of credibility 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.000 with them. They bring years and years of a reputation 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.840 of the Department of Justice of bringing cases that are 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.480 supported not only by the law but by the facts. 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.240 And so there is quite frankly, a certain amount of 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.840 deference that jurors often give to the government and that 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.000 judges often give to the government. Will have to see 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:12.520 if this type of external pressure begins to erode that trust, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.720 because that can have an effect on other cases that 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.040 are being brought by the Department of Justice in the future. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.280 And this is just the beginning of a long process. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:25.360 Thanks so much, Bob. That's Robert Mince of Macarter and English. 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:30.680 I'm June Gross. So when you're listening to Bloomberg. President 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:36.080 Donald Trump has long criticized wind power, claiming it's expensive 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:42.120 and unreliable, and that massive wind turbans are unsightly, kill birds, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.520 cause cancer, and drive whales crazy. Wind is the most 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:51.120 expensive form of energy, and it destroys the beauty of 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.640 your fields and your planes, and your and your waterways. 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:01.520 And Darling, I want to watch Trump and television tonight, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.280 but the wind stop blowing and I can't watch. 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.120 There's no electricity in the house. 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.880 Darling, you want to see a bird cemetery. Go under 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.840 a windmill sometime you'll see the status. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.000 And since returning to office, Trump has launched an attack 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:22.920 on wind power. His administration has stopped construction on major 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:28.400 offshore wind farms, revoked wind energy permits, cancel plans to 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:33.080 use large areas of federal waters for new offshore wind development, 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.320 and stop nearly seven hundred million dollars in federal funding 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.960 for a dozen offshore wind projects. But on Monday, a 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:47.520 major wind for wind energy DC Federal Judge Royce Lamberth 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.680 rule that work can resume on construction of a nearly 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.520 completed wind farm off the coast of Rhode Island, and 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.480 that the Trump administrations stop work order violated federal law 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.960 because it was arbitrary and capricious following years of planning 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:08.160 and coordination with the US government. My guest is environmental 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.800 law expert Pat Parento, a professor at the Vermont Law 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.240 and Graduate School. Pat tell us about this wind farm 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.760 off the coast of Rhode Island that's eighty percent complete. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.800 Correct, It's a six billion dollar wind farm, would be 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.960 the largest in the United States. It's funded primarily by 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.520 a Danish firm or stead, So you know you're talking 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:34.360 about six billion dollars of investment in American energy supply, 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.160 and there was over twelve hundred jobs associated with it, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:41.320 and the stop work order that the Department of Interior 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.480 issued threw those people out of work immediately. So yeah, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.160 it's eighty percent complete. They need to install twenty turbans 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.680 to finish it, and they need to do it quickly 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.480 because the supply chain for getting the turbines here and 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.560 assembled and installed. You know, they're raising the cal it's 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.000 a clock for weather, and it's a clock for getting 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.600 the kind of support you need to get these turbines installed. 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:07.920 Right. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.320 So this project is designed to serve three hundred and 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:16.080 fifty thousand home it's huge, it's fourteen hundred megawat and 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.480 it's also critical to the New England energy supply going forward. 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.800 So you know this project and Cape Wind is another 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.919 major offshore wind farm that was on the books but 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.960 now it's installed by Trump as well. So these two 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:36.480 wind projects are critical to supplying electricity in New England. 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.760 And of course electricity demands are going up in large 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.240 part in response to the AI build out and the big, 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.399 huge data centers that are stucking up so much energy. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.360 It's also designed to lower electricity bills because the biggest 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.360 electricity demand is peak demand in the winter for heating, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.240 and right now New England is relying very heavily on gas, 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.560 and you know, gas prices are incredibly volatile. So the 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.879 estimate is that this project alone would reduce electricity bills 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.800 in New England by five hundred million dollars. So, you know, 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:15.520 it's crazy because you've got a project supplying energy that's needed, 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:21.280 lowering energy prices, providing stability, and the Trump administration comes 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.320 along and issues this stopped work order, throws people out 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.119 of work, and now Judge Lambert has said, no, you 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:28.919 can't do that. 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:35.120 In stopping the project, the Trump administration cited national security concerns. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:37.560 What national security concerns? 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.359 Yeah, well, you know it was a Secretary Bergham, Interior Secretary, 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.840 who said it has to do with cybersecurity, and there's 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:52.399 a concern about whether there would be undersea drone attacks 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.840 because of course you have to monitor not only the 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.360 operation of the turbines, but the fact that you've got 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.199 to get the electricity on shore. The point is that 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.800 the Department of Defense has already approved the system that 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.600 they're going to be using to monitor all this stuff. 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:12.520 So this national security excuse is illegitimate. I mean, if 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.080 there is really a national security issue, what exactly is it? 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.960 Why was that evidence not introduced before Judge Lambert? And 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:20.480 it wasn't. 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:26.199 The company claimed that the Trump administration violated a constitutional 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.280 right to do process and that the stop work order 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.280 was arbitrary and capricious. So tell us what the judge decided. 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.199 So Clambert said it was the height of arbitrary and 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.399 capricious action. In other words, there was no evidence introduced 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.600 to suggest that there really was a national security problem. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.359 There was no evidence introduced that the company is in 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:52.520 violation of any environmental or regulatory requirement. This project has 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:57.760 been through ten years of analysis. I mean, in other respects, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.720 the Trump administration is going crazy over the delays and 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.800 energy projects from environmental reviews and regulatory requirements. Well, this 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.040 project's been through ten years of it. So there's no 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.400 issue here, no legitimate issue for why this project shouldn't 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.760 be completed and come online. 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:21.920 The Trump administration usually appeals every federal district court's order 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.680 that goes against them. Do you think the project can 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:30.400 be completed before an appellate court or the Supreme Court intervenes. 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.160 I mean, I would have expected to have seen an 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.360 announcement from the Trump administration that they were going to appeal, 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.719 but they haven't. So that suggests to me that perhaps 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.639 they've rethought this, and at least as regards this project, 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.680 they're willing to back off and let it go forward. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.040 I can't be sure of that, obviously, I wouldn't take 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.800 that to the bank necessarily, but it may be that, 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.320 at least on this one, they'll let it go. 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:03.360 Recently, the Trump administration has move to invalidate or reconsider 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.840 permits for other wind projects near Massachusetts that have yet 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.960 to start construction. Two weeks ago, they asked a court 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:13.720 to cancel the approval of a six billion dollar wind 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:18.080 project planned off Maryland's coast. I mean, are they targeting 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.199 all of these wind projects? 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:20.600 Oh? 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.960 Yes, they are definitely, not just wind but solar as well. 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.439 So it's across the board, though, and Bergham and the 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.520 Department of Energy are under orders executive orders from the 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:36.840 President to oppose renewable energy development. If there truly was 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.879 an energy emergency, why on earth would you stop projects 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:42.959 that are you know, not only in the pipeline, but 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.040 under construction and for which money is coming in from 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:48.919 outside the United States to build them, you know, in 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.440 electric vehicle plants in Georgia coming from South Korea, et cetera. 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:57.080 So this war on renewables makes no sense. 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.280 And so in light of all that, how how big 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.440 a win is Judge Lamberth's decision. 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.160 Oh, I think it's a huge win for not only 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.160 this project, but the other projects you mentioned that are 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.800 on the books for New England. I don't know whether 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:14.240 it will revive all of them or not, but this 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.600 would be the first order coming from a federal judge 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.000 saying to the Trump administration, you simply can't do this. 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.080 It's certainly granting them a stay of execution. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:30.200 According to Bloomberg analysis, altogether, more than fifteen thousand prospective 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:33.879 and current jobs tied to win projects in New England 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:38.520 are under threat from the potential shutdowns, and there are 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:43.800 all kinds of other effects. For example, you know, Massachusetts 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.679 has a state organization has spent more than twenty million 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.760 in total offshore wind job training program. So the ramifications 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:53.520 are widespread. 0:22:54.280 --> 0:23:00.080 Yes, they are for jobs, for investment, for lowering electricity bills, 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:05.280 for making energy more affordable for American consumers right down 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.199 the line. Never mind climate, never mind you know, environmental 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.680 impacts of energy development. If you think about gas, right, 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:14.840 where does the gas come from? Well, some of it 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.919 comes from the Marcella's shale in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, but 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.760 a lot of it comes from Ohio and further west, 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.119 and that's got to get there by pipeline. So you've 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:27.600 got to build all of this infrastructure, which is very expensive, 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.120 and then you've got to hope that gas prices remain stable, 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:34.919 which they don't. They're incredibly volatile because we're exporting a 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.440 lot of the gas. That's another priority of the administration. 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:40.480 They don't want to just produce the gas for a 0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:43.840 US consumption, They want to produce it to send it overseas. 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:48.880 So all of these factors really support the idea if 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.679 you want to have a mixed energy portfolio. You know 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.280 a lot of us are concerned about over reliance on 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:57.280 gas and certainly coal and oil. But the point is 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:00.639 you can have all of those different in green to 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.639 a sensible energy policy. But that's not what we have. 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:08.520 We have a single minded determination to build as much 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.760 gas and revive the coal industry. That's going to drive 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:15.280 up consumer prices. Never mind the environmental impacts. 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:20.000 Ken what the Trump administration is doing here with wind 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:26.080 and solar power be unwound if the next administration supports 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:27.359 renewable energy. 0:24:27.880 --> 0:24:29.800 You know, one of the biggest problems is if you 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:33.520 discourage this investment, you discourage the banks in the United 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:35.640 States and elsewhere around the world. Some of the other 0:24:35.720 --> 0:24:38.720 banks around the world have even more money to invest. 0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.360 You know, if you're a discouraging investment in energy supply, 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.040 that is going to have long term impacts for sure. 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:49.320 Whether or not that can be turned around is an 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:53.840