1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the so called Devil's Den 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: killer snared after a mom and dad slaughtered all the 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: hiking trail in front of their little girls while protecting 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: them from the hiking trail killer. According to police, I'm 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: you for being with us. 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: Ready for goods, responders, faith for believe. 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: That's all. We have. 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 3: More breaking news tonight the Arkansas State Police giving us 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: more details of the arrest and the Devil's Den double homicide. 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 3: Take a listen from KOTV all the way, everyone. 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 4: In stands stay until pretly guilty. We did the farm 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 4: this morning than our suspects. The DNA has been a 14 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 4: positive match to the DNA that we suspected to belong 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 4: to our suspect at the scene. 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: Not just two hikers dead on a trail, a mother 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: and a father and the prime of their lives with 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: their two little girls, ages seven and nine, brutally stabbed 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: dead on a family hiking trail, but in the last. 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,639 Speaker 4: Hours this Arkansas State Police special agents had arrested James 21 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 4: Andrew McGannon twenty eight a Spring deal. He's been charged 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 4: with two council capital murder in the distance of Clinton, 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 4: David Brink, and Kristin Amanda Brink. 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 5: If you commit a violent, senseless act here in our state, 25 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 5: our law enforcement will hunt you down and bring you 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 5: to justice. 27 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: That'm our friends at five News. This is what we 28 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: know right now. Straight out to Carson Holiday, joining US 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: investigative senior news reporter us Son. I understand the twenty 30 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: eight year old alleged double killer is a white male 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: teacher who was just moved to this area, and according 32 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: to reports that we're trying to corroborate right now, he 33 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: was taken off his last job as a teacher for 34 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: inappropriate conduct with girls. Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven, there 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: he is, and it looks just like the composite sketch. 36 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: What is that? What do we know about this guy? 37 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 6: Right? 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 7: So, Nancy, we know that he had just moved from 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 7: Oklahoma to Arkansas and was preparing to be a third 40 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 7: grade teacher at the elementary school in the area. Right 41 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 7: to school confirmed that, and before that he worked in Texas, 42 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 7: right he was a fifth grade teacher. 43 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: I believe you know, Angel lewis joining me partner Serce 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: Law firm, former felony prosecutor. If this is true. If 45 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: that is why he left Oklahoma and ended up here 46 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: and ended up at Devil's Dan Family hiking trail, why 47 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: in the world with the school have let it go quietly? 48 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: I just does it never And you know, hey, hey, Andrew, 49 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: listen to what an ASP investigator had to say. 50 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 8: We're not going to talk about his motive right now. 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 8: We're still exploring and to determine exactly what that motive was, 52 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 8: so it'd be a little premature for us to speak 53 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 8: on that tonight. 54 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Well, Angea Lewis, I understand the Arkansas State Police investigators 55 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: caution regarding motive. 56 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 9: I can certainly take a very educated guest here. This 57 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 9: man is obviously twisted. They say, don't judge a book 58 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 9: by its cover, but we can tell by just looking 59 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 9: at his mugshot something is wrong with him. And we 60 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 9: know that because, as you just stated, it appears from 61 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 9: reports that he is someone who who has either preyed upon, 62 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 9: has fixated upon, or has some type of nefarious desires 63 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 9: towards young girls in the past. And of course he 64 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 9: works in a school setting. And as you know, Nancy, 65 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 9: that's my primary practice. I handle sex abuse cases. I've 66 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 9: prosecuted sex abuse cases. And now I represent the victims. 67 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 9: I see this a lot, and I'll tell you and 68 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 9: you just hit the nail on the head. The most 69 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 9: frustrating thing when you have someone that is preying on 70 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 9: children ninety nine percent of the time, that is not 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 9: an isolated incident. 72 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: These are people. 73 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 9: It's ingrained in their soul. And what we need to 74 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 9: do as a society and as a community. And always 75 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 9: remember if someone is acting strangely towards children, if someone 76 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 9: gives you the creeps, especially if someone appears to be 77 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 9: sexually attracted or giving unwanted attention to children, you need 78 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 9: to be screaming that from the rooftops. The schools need 79 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 9: to be coming out and telling the community, because all 80 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 9: they do is move to the next school or community 81 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 9: and cause havoc there or in this case, murder people, 82 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 9: likely for the sole reason of getting to the children. 83 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: Now there's a lot of speculation. Ron Bateman joining me 84 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: former sheriff and Arundel County, Maryland who investigated the murder 85 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: Onland portrayal of Rachel Moore in very similar to this case. 86 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: We were trying to determine motive. We knew, Ron Bateman, 87 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: that the little girls ran for their lives down this 88 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: rocky terrain there's Rachel Morin to get to safety. They 89 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: heard their mother screaming in the background. They said at 90 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: the time they saw their father getting stabbed and that 91 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: the mom told them to run. So, when you were 92 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: analyzing for us in the hour after the double murder, 93 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: what may have happened, the parents sent the little girls 94 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: to safety, and we talked about why would one guy 95 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: attack the husband, who is a big guy, A big guy, 96 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: all right, not that big, but really big and beefy. 97 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: Why would one guy take on the man and the woman, 98 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: the mom and the dad, And you deduced he had 99 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: tried to grab one of the little girls and the 100 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: parents were protecting them. Ron Bateman, Yeah. 101 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 6: It's really clear now that we know what his background is, 102 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 6: which absolutely pisces me off to think that a proper 103 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 6: background was not done on this guy before he was 104 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 6: hired to a school system, the third school system that 105 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 6: he worked at. If they would have done their due 106 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 6: diligence on him, they would have learned these other past 107 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 6: behaviors and they wouldn't have hired him. That wouldn't have 108 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 6: kept him from being at the trail that day, But 109 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 6: it's it's just unbelievable. 110 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: Why may it may have Ron Bateman, because if he's 111 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: moving from Arkansas to here, I mean, if he's moving 112 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: to Arkansas, then he came there because he was hired. 113 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: If he hadn't been hired by the school, he probably 114 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: would have been in some other state. But I don't know. 115 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: All of that is just spinning out. This is the 116 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: kind of thing we do when we prep for a trial. 117 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: We try to give the jury a motive. But isn't 118 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: it true, Carson Holiday joining us from us son? Isn't 119 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: it true that the authority said from the very beginning 120 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: the parents were slaughtered trying to quote protect the little girls. 121 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: Didn't that come out at the beginning. 122 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 7: Yes, in the family suideness statement that they were trying 123 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 7: to save the little girls. We're all weeping the trail. 124 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 6: Me person with me. First day he had trying to 125 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 6: locate the family. 126 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 7: You're still calling for help. 127 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: We're hiking down Therefore. 128 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 6: We're here before get into the lower part of the 129 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 6: Devil's rail. Better relate to the office. And we found 130 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 6: the victims down here. They're on the lower Devil's entrail. 131 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: The fact that the mother and father are stabbed dead 132 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: with the little girls running away is a huge psychological 133 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: indicator as to who the purp is. First of all, 134 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: Carson Holiday, before I go to doctor Janie Lacy, I 135 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: want to figure out how this guy was arrested. Is 136 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: it true he was slung up in a barber chair 137 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: at a salon getting his hair clipped? What he's not 138 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: even worried he's gonna get caught. 139 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 7: Yep, he was mid haircut when they arrested him. You know, 140 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 7: he drove up with the car that he escaped in 141 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 7: and he was mid haircut when they handcuffed him. The 142 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 7: barber even took a video of police. 143 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: Taking pictures of the scene. You're seeing that right now. 144 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: I believe it is Lupita Salon. Lupita Salon. This is 145 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: from Adrian Luis Avolos on Facebook, and she was afraid 146 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: and concerned. There is the alleged getaway car. It's exactly 147 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: as it was described. I got to give a big 148 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: shout out to the witnesses that I did that car. Now. 149 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what it says to you. 150 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer. But doctor Janie Lacy joining 151 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: a psychotherapist, author of How To heal from a toxic 152 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: relationship and more, Doctor, he's not worried at all about 153 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: being apprehended. That's pretty smug, that's pretty arrogant. And I'm 154 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: also curious if he was going to get his hair shaved. Hey, 155 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: let me get the New York control room to show 156 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: you something really quickly, Doctor Janey. I want to see 157 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: the behind shot from the rear of the alleged purp 158 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: at the trail and this outfit really cue a lot 159 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: of witnesses. Doctor Johnny, there it is. Now. If you 160 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: zoom in on this, which I've done a million times, 161 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: you can see his hair coming out from under his 162 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: baseball cap. I wonder if he saw this photo that 163 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: we aired and realized his hair color and his hair 164 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: could be identified, and he was at that salon med haircut. 165 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: I wondered, was he getting his head buzzed? Was he 166 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: getting his hair up above his baseball cap? Long story short, 167 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: isn't that a tiny bit arrogant to be out slung 168 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: up in the salon's chair, just minding your own business 169 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: after a double murder and the cops are looking for you. 170 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: The ASP is nothing to be sneered at. And the 171 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: FBI was in on this thing. 172 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,319 Speaker 10: Well, Nancy, you said it arrogant and confident, So if 173 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 10: he was going about it, I would have probably imagined 174 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 10: that he absolutely saw that video and thought that he 175 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 10: was smarter and thought that he was going to get 176 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 10: away with this crime. Hence the remote location with no 177 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 10: cell phone service, the tape on his car, and all 178 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 10: these other types of things, the fingerless gloves that was reported, 179 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 10: and then the specific clothes that you just saw that 180 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 10: we just saw on the screen. So he's wearing these 181 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 10: black clothing in the middle of the forest with the backpack. 182 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 10: So arrogant and confident and disconnected from the prime in 183 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 10: the sense that he probably believed that he was going 184 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 10: to get away with this crime. 185 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: Nancy to doctor Michelle Dupree joining us, you know her well. 186 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: She capable to fame during the Alex Murdog double murder trial. 187 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: That's her jurisdiction. By the way, she is the author 188 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: of Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdog Dynasty. She's the 189 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: author of for my Purposes on the Side Investigation field 190 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: Guide and Child Abuse Investigation field Guide. Doctor dupri In 191 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: that video, if I could see that again, you see 192 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: the Arkansas State troopers gathering his hair lying there and 193 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: it's from the John Luis Avolo's Facebook. What are they 194 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: going to do with that hair? It gives me hope 195 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: there's DNA, explained Doctor dupre Nancy. 196 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 11: It's probably not going to be for DNA because DNA 197 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 11: you would need the actual hair root for that. They 198 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 11: may be able to find trace evidence from that if 199 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 11: they can match his. 200 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: Hair on mitochondrial DNA without a root. I know you 201 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: need the root for nuclear DNA, but what about mitochondrial 202 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: DNA can't you get that from a hair without a root. 203 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 11: You may be able to get mitochondrial DNA. Yes, yes, 204 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 11: but not the traditional DNA that we normally think of. 205 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: Not to go deafcom four into the analysis of DNA, 206 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: but I have handled cases myself where a mitochondrial DNA 207 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: match was made two nuclear DNA on the scene. It 208 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if it comes from the mother. You still 209 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: get the DNA match. You can yes straight out to 210 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: Ron Bateman joining us the hair on the floor from 211 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: the salon. That gives me hope that there will be 212 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: a DNA match. What does that mean? That means that 213 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: the perp somehow may have left DNA at the double 214 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: murder scene. That hair is important. 215 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 6: Let me respond to that because I've talked about this 216 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 6: on other shows, transference of evidence. When you are somewhere 217 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 6: committing a crime, you most likely, always that makes sense, 218 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 6: will leave something behind, blood, hair, fingerprints, whatever, and you 219 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 6: will take something with you carpet, fibers, soil from the ground, 220 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 6: what have you. But in this case, it sounds like 221 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 6: and I would be all over that hair too in 222 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 6: the salon that most likely I would bet money that 223 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 6: there's hair at that scene that they're looking to link 224 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 6: to McGahn. 225 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: That what you're seeing right now is from Hgano Luis 226 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: Ovolos on Facebook. You just said something super interesting, Ron Bateman. 227 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: I mean, it was all interesting to me because I 228 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: love crime scenes. You said the word soil. I hope, 229 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: I hope because we got a good description of this guy, 230 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: what he was wearing. I'm circled back to Carson on 231 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: that in a moment. But Ron, the soil on that scene, 232 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: he just moved here right to take his new job 233 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: at a teaching position. Scary the soil on that scene. 234 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if they can match that back to soil, 235 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: possibly even microscopic on his clothes on his shoes. Those 236 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: parents put up the fight of a lifetime, don't you know. 237 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: They were grabbing at his hair, leaving DNA on him, 238 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: getting his DNA on them. And then the possibility of 239 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: soil from the hiking trail on his clothes. 240 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 6: Ron, Yeah, the app the FBI, who is providing special 241 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 6: resources in this case, will definitely be able to compare 242 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 6: that soil to soil that's found on his shoes, for example, 243 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 6: and putting him right on the scene. 244 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: You know another thing, Carson Holiday joining us along with 245 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner from Crime Stories. Carson joining us us Son Carson. 246 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: I know this sounds crazy, right, but it's not. And 247 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: I've had other victims and witnesses tell me this so 248 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: and they're separated in time and space that they got 249 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: a quote bad vibe off the perp. Now, in this case, 250 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: I was going to come to you about what he 251 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: was wearing that stuck out like a sore thumb because 252 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: we were talking to Bateman about the shoes and the 253 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: possibility that soil samples from the hiking trail are on 254 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: his clothes. But this guy was decked out in all black, 255 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: and witnesses have stated we saw him he wouldn't even 256 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: look us in the eyes we passed him. Look at this, 257 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: it's almost one hundred degrees weather out there, Carson. Isn't 258 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: it true that one of the eyewitnesses said he gave 259 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: her a bad feeling, He put off a bad vibe 260 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: and they noticed it and I'm getting a vibb. I'm 261 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: just looking at him. But they remembered it and recounted 262 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: it to police. 263 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 7: Exactly, Nancy. I think, especially as women, when you walk 264 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 7: by a big guy like that and you know he's 265 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 7: just kind of pulking over in his dark clothes, it 266 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 7: would be impossible to not immediately get a feeling from him. 267 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 7: And maybe he was hurrying away from the scene, maybe 268 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 7: he was walking with some sort of focus. I mean, 269 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 7: he was stepped out in long sleeves, a black hat, 270 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 7: black head to toe, and he had that giant backpack on. 271 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 7: He just seemed disheveled and again wearing that really hot 272 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 7: seeming clothes in such humid Arkansas heat, it would be 273 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 7: weird to not spot him and to not remember him 274 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 7: when you were asked. 275 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: Gonna look go for a white man suspect wearing black gloves, sunglasses, 276 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: and dark colored pants and children are there. 277 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 3: We have more breaking news tonight the Arkansas State Police 278 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 3: giving us more details of the arrest in the Devil's 279 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: Den double homicide. Take a listen from KOTV. 280 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 8: As we began to hone in on the vehicle, it 281 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 8: became clear that it was a Kia Stinger, and we 282 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 8: use that information to vet various owners and our suspect 283 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 8: was identified. 284 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 12: Terrifying screens and calls for help are heard in Arkansas 285 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 12: State Park Devil's Den, prompting nearby hikers to sound to 286 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 12: the arm. 287 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: What authorities find shocks everyone in the last In fact, 288 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: it was announced in the night and arrest has been 289 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: made in the double homicide, the brutal knifing of a 290 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: mom and dad at Devil's Den hiking trail straight out 291 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: to Ron Bateman joining US former sheriff and Arundel County, 292 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: Maryland who exhaustively investigated the Rachel Morn murders. Very similar 293 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: to this case. 294 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 6: Way in so, if you go back to the picture 295 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 6: of the suspect from behind, you will notice what he's 296 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 6: wearing is not a hoodie. It's either a turtleneck, which 297 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 6: I don't believe it's a turtleneck. It looks like it 298 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 6: could be one of those full face covers that we 299 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 6: wear during a pandemic, or people wear all the time, 300 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 6: whether hunting or fishing. But that seems very unusual to me. 301 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 6: Do you see that at the top of his neck 302 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 6: that's not an article of clothing like a shirt or 303 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 6: a turtleneck. That could be where he could pull something 304 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 6: over his face and his nose and covers nose's mouth, 305 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 6: you know the rest of his face. And if you 306 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 6: see that picture there, he's mid haircut. He's not getting 307 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 6: a buzz cut. He's not getting all his hair shaved off. 308 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 6: He's too vain for that. 309 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: It looks to me like he's getting it cut, possibly 310 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: shaved up the back, but it's all above his ears. 311 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: See what's happening. And he was mid haircut, so we 312 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: don't really know what they were doing, but we know 313 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: he was getting it off of his collar and way 314 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: up Doctor Janey, Lacey joining me. Let's take a look 315 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: at what he is wearing. Doctor Janey, look at this. 316 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: I see why someone has mentioned it looks like his 317 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: got a ball of clava down around his neck. Oh 318 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: Ron Bateman said that we see that we see a 319 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: huge backpack what does he have in that and the 320 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: backpack itself is easily identifiable. I'm just wondering if they 321 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: found that backpack that matches up to this fo so 322 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: doctor Janie Lacy, the way he's dressed, I mean, it 323 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: just got to be the victims DNA all over him. 324 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: And I guarantee these items are going to be found 325 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: in his closet at his new apartment. 326 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 10: I would certainly hope so, Nancy, because as we're looking 327 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 10: at what he's wearing, that would say a lot of 328 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 10: Sorazi's premeditation. That he probably planned to have everything that 329 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 10: he needed in that bag, which will probably tell us 330 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 10: a lot about what he was planning when they receive 331 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 10: that backpack and the contents of that backpack. And I 332 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 10: would imagine with the parents and their instinct to save 333 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 10: and to protect their children, that their DNA that there's 334 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 10: other evidence that would be on his clothing. So to me, 335 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 10: that would be really important that they recover not only 336 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 10: that backpack, but all of his clothing that. 337 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: We see in this picture to be able to learn 338 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: a lot about. 339 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 10: This horrific crime and his violent behavior. 340 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Sydney Summer joining me, Crime Stories. 341 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: Investigative reporter explain to us what we know right now 342 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: about the slaughter at Devil's Den. What do we know happened? 343 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: Pieced together by the nine one one calls little girls 344 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: running down the trail screaming what they reported? How do 345 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: we think the attacks went down Sydney right. 346 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 2: Well, we don't have any publicly released information on what 347 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: actually happened, but we have been hearing these little snippets 348 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: of nine to one one dispatch radio and that's where 349 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: we're starting to piece together what happened. So apparently this 350 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: family is walking on the trail, mom and dad, two 351 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 2: little girls, and they are approached by Andrew apparently at 352 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 2: this point, and he starts to attack the parents, attacks dad, 353 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: possibly stab dad in the chest. While the two little 354 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: girls are still with their parents, Mom tells these two 355 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: young girls, they are just seven and nine years old, 356 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 2: to run as far and as fast as they can 357 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: and try and get help. So these girls take off, 358 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: and what they tell the nine one one dispatcher is 359 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: that they ran until they couldn't hear their mom screaming anymore, 360 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 2: so they run into some adult on the trail, and 361 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 2: we think that they ran a very long distance, almost 362 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 2: a mile until they ran into we're not sure, some 363 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: kind of an adult, maybe another family, a couple, and 364 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: someone escorted them to the visitor center, where an attendant 365 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: called nine one one, And at this point the attendant 366 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 2: just believed that maybe these children were just separated from 367 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 2: their family. It wasn't until the girls were put on 368 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: the phone directly with the nine one one dispatcher that 369 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 2: it was understood that their parents had actually been attacked. 370 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 2: So at this point that's when you hear stage for police. 371 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: Two people have been attacked, possible stabbing, and officers are 372 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: now searching the trail for these injured people. And what 373 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: we know is that officers actually heard falls for help 374 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 2: before they made it out to Clinton and Kristen Brink. 375 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: So it was so sad that they were so close 376 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: to possibly have gotten these parents' medical attention that they needed, 377 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 2: but by the time they located Kristen and Clinton, they 378 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: were deceased. 379 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: While first responders initially hear screams and calls for help, 380 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: by the time they reached the victims on the trail, 381 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 3: it's clear the victims are deceased. There's no sign of 382 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 3: their attacker. Officers quickly clear the trails, speaking with hikers 383 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 3: as they exit the park to piece together what happened. 384 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 3: Several hikers remember passing the family and many others on 385 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 3: the trail, but a few point out there was only 386 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 3: one one person they saw alone on the trail that day, 387 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 3: a medium builed white man wearing dark clothes, a ball 388 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: cap and sunglasses, with dark blonde or light brown hair. 389 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 12: What's supposed to be a memorable family height ends in 390 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 12: a brutal tragedy when the bodies of a mom and 391 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 12: dad are suddenly discovered in an Arkansas state park. 392 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: With me an all star panel. To any sense of 393 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: what we're learning right now, we do know that overnight 394 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: it was announced and arrest had been made. The so 395 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: called Devil's Den Hike trail killer was apprehended, according to police. 396 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: Carson Holiday joining us from the Sun Carson, I'm trying 397 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: to figure out how this guy was apprehended, what led 398 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: to him. I have a reason to believe it may 399 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: have been his vehicle, But Carson Holiday, you may have 400 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: a different theory. How was this guy identified? 401 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 7: I believe it was the composite sketch. 402 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: The composite sky. 403 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 7: Was really right on and he was wearing. I mean, 404 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 7: obviously we have that picture from behind that I feel 405 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 7: like is very recognizable. That backpack is pretty unique. Again, 406 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,479 Speaker 7: the balaklava sort of thing around his neck and then 407 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 7: the hat, that all just seems very recognizable. I believe 408 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 7: someone saw him going in to get the haircut, which 409 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 7: is where he was arrested, and maybe called it in. Obviously, 410 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 7: we'll learn more as the police release more details. 411 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: We're learning that police, well it's Arkansas State Police along 412 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: with the FBI, are crediting video tips. I don't really 413 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: know what that means, but video tips also to Dodger. 414 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: Michelle Duprey, joining US renowned pathologist, medical examiner, and former detective. 415 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: When I hear people talk about balaklava, now I can't help. 416 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: I will forever think of Brian Cooberger and it sounds 417 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: like this guy took a page out of Coburger's book. 418 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: Burger dressed all in black, face, mask, gloves, The work 419 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: works just like this guy. What do you make of it? 420 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: Does that really protect you from DNA transfers? 421 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 11: No, Nancy, it doesn't. I think that he was under 422 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 11: a misconception that it would. But there are still going 423 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 11: to be lots of trace evidence on hairs, fibers, soil, 424 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 11: things like that. It gives him a false sense of 425 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 11: security that he won't be identified, and it does make 426 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 11: it harder to identify, but there are still ways to 427 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 11: do that. And as we've seen here, there's a great 428 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 11: sketch of him. 429 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: It really is, it really is. You know that's hard 430 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: to do, doctor Michelle Dupree, You and I have worked 431 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: with a lot of composite sketches, and you know it 432 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: looks nothing like the person, and the defense has a 433 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: field day with it at trial. I mean, I've seen 434 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: some composite sketches that didn't look at all like the perk, 435 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: but I had a DNA match, so I know it's him. 436 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,959 Speaker 1: Long story short, the defense gets a hold of that 437 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: back and pose it and goes, look, that's not him, 438 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: and that's not a good look for the prosecution in 439 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: this case. I think you're absolutely right. I think it 440 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: looks a lot like him. But doctor Michelle Dupree, not 441 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: only author and pathologist, also former detective now Kerson Holiday 442 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: thinks that it had to do with other evidence. I 443 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: think it had to do the apprehending him, had to 444 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: do with this car, because you look and you see 445 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: in the database, who's there, who's in the jurisdiction driving 446 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: a black Mazda four door with I don't know if 447 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: the whole tag was covered up, if partial tag was 448 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: covered up. Look at this. This is again from Adriana 449 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: luis Ovolos on Facebook. There it is right there. Yep, 450 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: it's a four door, just like the witnesses said. And 451 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: the car database is easy to find. Now we know 452 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: part of that tag was obscured with duct tape he 453 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: planned to him. But even if you get the outside 454 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: of the tag, you can identify the state and maybe 455 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: more so, what do you think led them to this 456 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: guy apprehended, all kicked back getting his hair done? 457 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 11: Nancy, I think you're actually right. I think that someone 458 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 11: saw this car and probably saw it maybe being parked, 459 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 11: and saw this person going into the barbershop to get 460 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 11: a haircut, and then you match that up with the sketch, 461 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 11: and I think you've absolutely got it. You've got it 462 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 11: wrapped up. 463 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: Hey, listen to this, doctor dupray. 464 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 3: Several other hikers take notice of a man in dark 465 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 3: clothes on Devil's Done Trail one nine one one call, 466 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 3: reporting he appeared to have blood on him. While initial 467 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: reports put the suspect in a black tank top, police 468 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: revised the description to a dark colored, long sleeved shirt 469 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 3: with the sleeves rolled up. Some witnesses saw the man 470 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 3: get in a black four door sports car. Others report 471 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 3: a similar car driving erratically as it leaves the park area. 472 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: Their descriptions are vague, but all have two commonalities. It 473 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 3: was loud, and there was tape covering the license plate. 474 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: Police believe the vehicle may have been traveling on Arkansas 475 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 3: one p seventy or Arkansas two twenty. 476 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: I'm not saying Chrston Holidays wrong. She may very well 477 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: be right. She knows the facts like the back of 478 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: her hand. But doctor Duprix, it's coburger all over again. 479 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: Here you've got the guy in this case, Devil's Den 480 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: driving erratically in a really loud car that went out 481 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: on the airwaves Pronto describing him the composite. But that 482 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: car it got on either Arkansas one seventy or two twenty. 483 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: They have cams, they have licensed grappers, and if you're 484 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: driving erratically, people are gonna notice, just like BK. Brian 485 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: Coberger's white Elantra was noticed. I mean it's a dead giveaway. 486 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: What about that possibility, Doctor Dupree, Absolutely. 487 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 11: Nancy, that you're right, that is going to be noticed 488 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 11: by anybody that's in the vicinity. And if they call 489 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 11: that in and then again they do match it up 490 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 11: with the sketch. I think you're right. I think somebody 491 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 11: saw that car. I think somebody saw that being parked 492 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 11: near that barber shop. And I think that is how 493 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 11: they apprehended him right then, and they are ooh. 494 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: Yes, by the barbershop. Brilliant And he was so arrogant, 495 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: this guy idiot Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Janey Lacey, 496 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: and I say, idiot, with full venom, have you ever 497 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: been minding your own business? I don't know if you 498 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: live in an apartment or a house or in traffic 499 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: and you hear and you go, what is that in 500 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: some muscle car going by with a screwed up muffler 501 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: and everybody notices it. This guy like Coburger, going round 502 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: and around and around the murders. Is why elantra, Hello, 503 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: we see you on ring cams. We can see you. 504 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: This guy drives off nine emph and thanks, Nobody will 505 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: notice and then parks in front of the salon. 506 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 10: Well, Nancy, that says a lot about he thought his 507 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 10: self importance and him living in the little bubble and 508 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 10: not necessarily having self awareness. 509 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 6: Right. 510 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 10: So when we see people who are arrogant personality disordered, 511 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 10: have a lot of history of just being self focused 512 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 10: and their self importance is so inflated that these are 513 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 10: the types of people that we will see that are 514 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 10: not considered of other people. And in this situation of 515 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 10: him going to the barbershop and him going loudly at 516 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 10: that is to say that his self importance is over 517 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,959 Speaker 10: confidence and just really thinking that he probably was going 518 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 10: to get away with this crime. In this sense, especially 519 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 10: when we look at his self importance and his lack 520 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 10: of self awareness. 521 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said that doctor Janey angel lewis 522 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: joining US veteran trial lawyer at Circe Law, but former 523 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: felony prosecutor. The more arrogant they are, the better it 524 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: is for the state because they think that they're not 525 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: going to be noticed and they're smarter than everybody in 526 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: the room. And in this case it's little things. Andrew. 527 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: If Carson Holliday is right, and I think she is, 528 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: that there's a good chance there's DNA, and that there 529 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: are video tips. It's other little things. Did I ever 530 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: tell you about the bank robber I prosecuted gets a 531 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: ton of money out of what was then a CNS bank, 532 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: and you know what got him a little thing. They 533 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: didn't even have video, they had steal photos of the purpse, 534 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: but you could see he was slew footed, what like 535 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: a duck, right, And of course he took the stand, 536 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: Thank you Heaven. He takes a stand, and everybody hung 537 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: over the jury rail to watch him walk, and he 538 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: walked up just as slip footed as daffy duck. Okay, 539 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is little things like that car 540 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: pulling up and parking right there forgotten everybody to see 541 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: in front of the salon. You hear that, and of 542 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: course you look at it and you think, hey, that 543 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: looks like the Mazda. Everybody's looking for Andrea. Idiot? How 544 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: many times can I say idiot in one segment? But 545 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: what about it? Angrea Lewis, You're one hundred percent right. 546 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 9: You know, I think most people who maybe aren't in 547 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 9: the courtroom as much as prosecutors are, maybe some other 548 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 9: lawyers don't realize how the defendant themselves can really just 549 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 9: be a treasure trove of information, not only in evidence before, 550 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 9: not only in just their statements potentially to police, but 551 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 9: as you noted in the courtroom, their mannerisms, because if 552 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 9: they're arrogant outside the courtroom, imagine how they act to 553 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 9: inside the courtroom and can pick up on that and 554 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 9: they want to wipe that smile right off their face. 555 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 9: And I think that's what's happened here. He just got 556 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 9: you know, cocky. He thought he was untouchable. I totally 557 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 9: agree with you and the other guest. I think that 558 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 9: we're going to find here that there's DNA that you 559 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 9: got his car. It sounds like you have multiple people 560 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 9: on the hiking trail. I would assume that it was 561 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 9: one of the adults that probably got a good look 562 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 9: at him. I remember there were some witness statements when 563 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 9: the initial reports went out. Who did that the composite 564 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 9: which is excellent, So they have a lot and for 565 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 9: all we know, he spoke to police. So I think 566 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 9: it'll just keep getting better. 567 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: Gots something else for you, Andrea ron Bate was going 568 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: to do a backflip. But before we show him doing 569 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: his backflip, did you know that Lupita's salon. According to 570 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: our very very extensive a Google map search, Lupida's Salon 571 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: is less than thirty minutes away from Devil's Dean. He 572 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: didn't even leave the jurisdiction. He's that arrogant and parks 573 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: in the front of the salon where the whole world 574 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: is looking for his car. 575 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 9: It really it defies common sense. And you brought up coburger. 576 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 9: That was the first thing I thought about when we 577 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 9: started hearing these initial reports over the last couple of days, 578 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 9: because imagine a town like this, who everybody's on high alert. 579 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 9: I mean, people across the country are following this case. 580 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 9: Imagine what big news it is locally there. So everybody 581 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 9: in a four door sedan, you know, is getting stared 582 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 9: at when they go to traffic lights and as they 583 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 9: drive around, they're on high alert. The town's on high alert. 584 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 9: So for this man to just be so stupid that 585 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 9: he would stick around not think that anyone would notice him. 586 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 9: He's sort of a strange looking guy to begin with. 587 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 9: I mean, he's stands out is just foolish, and fortunately 588 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 9: for the family, he was caught and hopefully will spend 589 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 9: the rest of his life in prison or get the 590 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 9: death penalty. 591 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: Overnight, a presser announcing the arrest of the alleged double 592 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: killer snared in the Devil's Den hiking trail murders to 593 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: Ron Bateman, joining us fromer Sheriff and Arundel County, Maryland, 594 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: who has investigated multiple cases very similar to this. If 595 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: you look at this guy, Okay, he moves to town 596 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: to another state after resigning from his last elementary school position, 597 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: where he was quote so close to the students. He 598 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: comes here, apparently doesn't know anybody, takes an out of 599 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: state job, lives all alone, reportedly having left that job 600 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: after claims he had an appropriate contact. I don't know 601 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: what that means. That can mean calling children on the phone, 602 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: It can mean texting them, It can mean a lot more. 603 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: We don't know that yet. But then would he leap 604 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:20,760 Speaker 1: from that to trying to publicly nab a little girl 605 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: on a hiking trail. No wonder the mom and dad 606 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: fought to the death. 607 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 6: Okay, So I made another observation of that backpack contraption 608 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 6: that he has he's wearing. First off, that gym bag 609 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 6: is attached to a backpack apparatus, and that backpack apparatus 610 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 6: has what looks to me to be a camelback apparatus 611 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 6: to it, which means it has water in it and 612 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 6: it comes around. So to me, that looks like the 613 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 6: moron who's wearing long sleeve black shirt and black pants 614 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 6: and a hat in ninety five degree weather is end 615 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 6: for the long run because of hydration. This gives him 616 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 6: hydration state out there. So that looks like a chin 617 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 6: backpack to me with an attachment of a gym bag 618 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 6: to us, So, who knows what the heck is in 619 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 6: that driam gym bag. I'd love to see the tape, 620 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 6: the rope, the knives or whatever's in there. 621 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: Would he be that brazen ron? 622 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 6: Yeah? Well, I mean he's not that sory to. 623 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: Try and nab a little girl in front of her parents. Well, 624 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,760 Speaker 1: I mean, for all I know, like in Rachel Moren's case, 625 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: that perp waited until nobody else was around, and Rachel 626 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 1: was at a curve, remember a curve where people behind 627 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: couldn't see exactly what was happening ahead, and he dragged 628 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: her off the trail, her mother of five. For all 629 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: I know, the little girls were running ahead of mom 630 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: and dad, which happens frequently, and he saw them and 631 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: didn't see mom and dad and tried to grab one 632 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: and the girl's screen. I wonder if that's how this 633 00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: whole thing is going to play out. 634 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, you know what, he probably had tunnel vision. Your parent, 635 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 6: I'm a parent. You know when the kids are little, 636 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 6: you know, they don't want to stick by mom and 637 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 6: dad's side. They're running ahead, or they're hanging behind, they're 638 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 6: playing on logs or doing what have you, exploring the woods, 639 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 6: and that could have very well happened and been slightly 640 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 6: out of sight of mom and dad. But this guy 641 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 6: had tunnel vision. He knew what he was going after, 642 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 6: probably one of those two little girls or both, and 643 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 6: just was oblivious to mom and dad's presence. 644 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,879 Speaker 1: You know, Carson holiday joining us from the US son. 645 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: I'm just we're analyzing how is he tracked, how is 646 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: he caught? Was their DNA? Did the hair have mitochondrial 647 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: DNA in on? But what it boils down to is 648 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: this mom and dad gave their lives trying to protect 649 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: the little girls. That's the first words we were hearing. 650 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: They died trying to protect the girls. And I spun 651 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: that out and try to figure out what does that mean. Okay, 652 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: these two little girls, and I think they've got a 653 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,720 Speaker 1: third sister, we'll spend the rest of them lives without 654 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: mom and dad. And there's no replacement for that. And 655 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: not only that, the survivor guilt. They died trying to 656 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: save me. I mean, that's what this is all about. 657 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: And stabbing death is a brutal way to die. It's 658 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: not like you die in your sleep, or you breathe 659 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: in carbon monoxide you don't even know what's happening, or 660 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: you take too many pills and you just drift off 661 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,280 Speaker 1: to sleep. No, it's it's a horrible way to die. 662 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: And if the police are right Arkansas State Police, this 663 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: guy did it. I bet you anything, Carson. He didn't 664 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: go from zero to one hundred mph in one afternoon, right, 665 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: there's got to be a trail behind him. But what 666 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: happens now? Where is he and what's next? 667 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 7: Well, he was booked into jail last night. We obviously 668 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 7: saw that terrifying mugshot and police said that he could 669 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,840 Speaker 7: appear in court for his arraignment as soon as tomorrow morning. 670 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 7: So we'll really be checking back in and seeing, you know, 671 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 7: how he appears in court. 672 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 9: What jail is going to look like for him? 673 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 7: I really can't imagine that it would be a great 674 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 7: experience for him. 675 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 5: There. 676 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 7: You know, he just ripped two parents away from their 677 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 7: young daughters. And like you said, the young daughters, I mean, 678 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 7: the survivor's guilt is just going to be awful, especially 679 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 7: considering that the mom told the little girls to run 680 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 7: and get help, and that they were screaming for help 681 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 7: up until they came along to their bodies. 682 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: And it's just horrific. Mom and dad had just moved 683 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: to this jurisdiction. Dad starting a brand new job. I 684 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: think it would have been yesterday delivering milk. Mom a nurse. Well, 685 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,879 Speaker 1: we know what's going to happen, Andrea. He is going 686 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: to have a first appearance, which under the law, if 687 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,879 Speaker 1: you are behind bars, you have to be brought into 688 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: a court, whether it's a magistrate, a superior court judge, 689 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: state court judge, and you have to be told why 690 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: you're being charged in open court, no secret proceedings. That's 691 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: going to happen. Then there'll probably be a grand jury indictment. 692 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: Onto capital murder cases, this is a death penalty jurisdiction. 693 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: Then he'll probably be assigned a public defender with death 694 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: penalty experience. I mean, this is more than one body 695 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: that equals mass murder under the law. That's what's going 696 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: to spend out. Then we're going to spend millions of 697 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 1: dollars while he sits behind bars. I believe it's Washington 698 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: County jail, with people rallying to his aid, women falling 699 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: in love with him and sending him love letters and 700 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: special meals, all sorts of things like ahead for him 701 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: as we wait for justice is too unfold. But what 702 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 1: do you think what lies ahead? 703 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 9: Andrea lewis well, so what lies ahead for him? 704 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 1: This is going to be a long process. 705 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 9: It's going to be a long process for all of 706 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 9: us here watching along, And as you noted before, and 707 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 9: most importantly, this is going to be an absolutely excruciatingly 708 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 9: painful process for these girls who may very well end 709 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 9: up being witnesses in this case and have to testify 710 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 9: a trial. Hopefully they're able to piece the case together. 711 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 9: It sounds like they have a lot of other evidence 712 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 9: without putting them through that. But this, as we all know, 713 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 9: is not a process that's going to happen overnight. And 714 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 9: as is often the case, he will likely plead not guilty. 715 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 9: We'll drag it out, get a trial date. You know, 716 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 9: it will depend on the jurisdiction. But let's say within 717 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,359 Speaker 9: a couple years, and then we'll all sit back and 718 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 9: see if he ends up being offered a plead and 719 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 9: take some place lee ahead of time, but for something. 720 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: Oh please don't pull upon coburger on me, Andrea Lewis, 721 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,359 Speaker 1: you're giving me, giving me chest pains, a plea deal. 722 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: A mom and a dad dead defending their children on 723 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: a family hiking trail. No mm hmm, I mean I 724 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: believe the elected prosecutor is going to call for the 725 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: DP on this. That said, we wait as justice unfolds. 726 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: And now we remember an American hero, Deputy Shriff of 727 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: jamar Abel Chambers County Sheriff's, Alabama, just twenty four years old, 728 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: killed in a line of duty, survived by grieving fiance 729 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: Jasmine and father Martin missing. A beloved American hero, jamar 730 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: Abel Nancy Gray signing off good bye mad 731 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 11: Passssssssssssssssssss