1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. In last 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: week's News Roundup, one of the stories that we cut 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: for Time was about the Tea dating app for women. 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: At the time when we were recording, the story was 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: still pretty simple, just that this dating app that had 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: quietly existed for two years had rocketed to the top 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 1: of Apple's App Store because it was getting a ton 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: of attention on social media from people making videos on 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: platforms like TikTok about how the app played into gender 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: dynamics around women who date men. I was seeing posts 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: on TikTok about the Tea app from my own city 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: here in DC, about how some women were using it 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: to talk about legitimately abusive behavior from men, while other 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: women were using it to talk about sort of commonplace 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: dating annoyances like men who don't text back or men 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: who ghost, and how conflating those two things on one 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: app it's probably not great. According to the people who 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: run the t app, all of these kinds of pots 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: were really driving a ton of attention, which is not 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: at all surprising because gender war stuff will always generate engagement. 23 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: That attention was both positive and negative, with a lot 24 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: of men complaining about how this app was unfair. But 25 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: in the economy of the Internet, it really doesn't matter 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: because it's all engagement either way. So everybody was talking 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: about this app and it became number one on the 28 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: App Store in the lifestyle category. The company said that 29 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: something like one million people had downloaded the app in 30 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: just a few weeks alone since or Tower, a marketing 31 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: intelligence firm that tracks app data, estimated that the downloads 32 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: of the app increased one hundred and eighty five percent 33 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: in the first twenty days of July compared with June. 34 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Of that same period, the company that makes the app 35 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: set on social media that they had gotten over four 36 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: million female users, with a waiting list of approximately nine 37 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: hundred thousand new prospective users. There's a waiting list because 38 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: before women can use the app, they have to be verified. 39 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: This be important for later. So as recently as last 40 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: Thursday night, when we were recording the news roundup, that 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: was really the main gist of what was going on. 42 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: So I ended up not talking about it at all 43 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: because there was a lot of other important stuff going 44 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: on and I kind of just ran out of time. 45 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: But now I am glad that we did not talk 46 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: about it, because right after we published that episode, the 47 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: Tea App experienced a pretty major data breach. So let's 48 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: talk about what the Tea App is, what exactly happened, 49 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: the gendered history of online platforms like the Tea App, 50 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: and what I think it all means. So what exactly 51 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: is the Tea App? I want to spend some time 52 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: on how it works before we get into the data breach. 53 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: It's a dating app that's kind of like the Yelp 54 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: if you were rating men instead of restaurants. So not 55 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: a dating app that helps you match with people to date, 56 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: but an app that tries to help you make more 57 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: informed dating choices. Women can anonymously share information about the 58 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: experiences that they've had with specific men to help inform 59 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: other women. The key here is the anonymity. When you 60 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: first join the app, you're told that it is totally 61 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: and completely anonymous, and that screenshotting the app is not possible. 62 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: If you try to take a screen chat, you'll get 63 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: a black screen, though you can obviously still take a 64 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: photo of the app with an additional device, which people 65 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: do pretty often. On the Tea app, you can even 66 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: describe a guy's behavior and have other women weigh in 67 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: on whether you should keep seeing him or not. Women 68 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: assign men red flags for problematic behavior and green flags 69 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 1: for good behavior. Basically, it's a digital whisper network in 70 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: the form of an app for women to post photos 71 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: of men and talk about whatever they might know about 72 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: that man, you know, like sabilling the tea. So what 73 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: separates the Tea App from other kinds of platforms like 74 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: this is that it kind of bills itself as an 75 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: app for women's safety. They gave ten percent of their 76 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: proceeds to the National Domestic bile Once topline, and even 77 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: though the app is free, users get five free searches 78 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: each month. After that, they're given a choice pay for 79 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: teas fifteen dollars a month subscription, or invite friends to 80 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: keep using it for free. So basically, invite your girlfriends 81 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: to have their data breached as well. All kidding aside, 82 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: it's actually kind of a smart strategy for a growing app, 83 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: especially one that is so dependent on having a large 84 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: userbase of women able to weigh in on the men 85 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: in any particular area. For apps like this users are 86 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: basically as good as cash, so either pay up for 87 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: the premium version or invite your girlfriends. The Tea app 88 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: promises that women who date men can make sure your 89 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: data is safe, not a catfish, or not in a relationship, 90 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: according to Tea's marketing materials. The app's founder, Sean Cook, 91 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: who formerly was a product manager at Salesforce and Shutterfly, 92 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: launched the app because he witnessed his own mother's terrifying 93 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: experience with online dating. He said she was catfished and 94 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: unknowingly engaged with men who had criminal records. He teamed 95 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: up with a social media creator named danielle A Satela, 96 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: who came on as the Tea app social media director 97 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: who created a buzzy, pink and purple gen Z friendly 98 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: social media presence for the app. The website says that 99 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: Tea is on a mission to revolutionize dating safety by 100 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: equipping women with cutting edge tools, real time insights, and 101 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: a powerful community to navigate the modern dating world with 102 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: confidence and control. At its core, the site says, Tea 103 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: is built on one fundamental belief women should never have 104 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: to compromise their safety wild dating, So users anonymously post 105 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: photos of men they're dating, and asking others if they 106 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: have any TEA on them. Users can also turn on 107 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: notification alerts to see if a specific name is mentioned 108 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: on the app. So if I meet Joe Blow on 109 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: the street and I want to keep tabs on whether 110 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: or not he shows up on the Tee app, I 111 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: can set a notification alert for his name. Other tools 112 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: on the app allow users to run background checks, search 113 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: for criminal records, and reverse image search for photos in 114 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: the hopes of spotting catfishing or people passing off photos 115 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: of other people as themselves. If this premise sounds kind 116 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: of familiar, it's because it's very similar to those are 117 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: we dating the same guide pages on social media, which 118 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: you might recall, sparked lawsuits last year. Chicago man sued Meta, 119 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: as well as women who dated him and their parents, 120 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: women who commented on Facebook posts about him in a 121 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: Facebook group, and the moderators of the group for defamation, 122 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: invasion of privacy, doxing, and more. The complaint was dismissed, 123 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: and similarly, a man in LA filed a lawsuit against 124 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: fifty women. The man, Stuart Lucas Murray, sued fifty women 125 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: for defamation, libel, sex, based discrimination and other allegations, all 126 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: stepping from their posts in the Facebook group. Are we 127 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: dating the same guy? Some of the women that he 128 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: sued had never even met him, only commented on the 129 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: Facebook post with things like oh wow, and. 130 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: He sued them too. 131 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: This situation is pretty interesting. I would actually recommend googling 132 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: Stuart Lucas Murray because he has a pretty prolific public profile. 133 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: I won't say much more than that because in my opinion, 134 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: he seems like a pretty litigious guy, but it is 135 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: an interesting google. So one of the defendants in that 136 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: suit described the accusations as baseless, emphasizing that the group 137 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: serves as a platform for sharing personal experiences with men 138 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: and opinions, which she says are protected from defamation. Here's 139 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of their press conference. 140 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 3: As myself and my fellow co defendants were just speaking 141 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 3: their truth, and unfortunately for him, it was again not favorable. 142 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 3: So he somehow found those comments that we did make. Again, 143 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: they were factual and they were based in our true experiences. 144 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: He found those comments and decided to come forth with 145 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: this lawsuit with his claims of defamation, which we feel 146 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: are invalid because there is no evidence that we know 147 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: of that would exist in support of his claims. 148 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: So, just like that Chicago case, this case was also dismissed. 149 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: But even still, Facebook really started cracking down on those 150 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: are we Dating the same Guy pages where women would 151 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: dish about men on Facebook, which is pretty ironic considering 152 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg originally conceptualized the idea of to rate the 153 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: looks of the women that he called dogs in his 154 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: college dorm. But in any event, a lot of those 155 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: groups are being pushed off a Facebook, which is why 156 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: apps like the Tea app have popped up in their place. 157 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: This kind of yelp for people thing may seem novel, 158 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: but it's actually not a new idea at all. There 159 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: was an app back in twenty twelve called Lulu which 160 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: integrated with Facebook to let you rate men that you've 161 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: dated and judge them on what other women say about them. 162 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: It was actually pretty similar to the te app in 163 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: that when a Facebook user joined Lulu, it pulled the 164 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: names of the men that they knew in their network, 165 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: and if the user decided to rate them, it would 166 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: generate a public facing page announcing that that man had 167 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: been reviewed. Originally, that page featured Batman's name and photograph 168 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: pulled from his Facebook account. So Lulu was kind of 169 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: similar to the tea app, but it was really more 170 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: about rating men in bed, like a cheeky way of 171 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: being like, oh, this guy has hashtag big feet, and 172 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: less about trying to keep women safe from abuse. Lulu 173 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: was eventually acquired and shut down. Its Wikipedia page says 174 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: it was described and popular press as sexist and objectifying, 175 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: non consensual, and shallow and mean. I also remember, way 176 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: back in the early two thousands, there was this big 177 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: splash about a site called Girl Don't Date Him that 178 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: advertised itself as a kind of credit report for men. 179 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: The site's founder, Tasha Joseph, was kind of a fast 180 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: talking lady, and she was always going on entertainment news 181 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: shows to talk about dating. And I actually remember that 182 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: site got quite a lot of good press, but it 183 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: went just about as well as you might expect. The 184 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Miami New Times wrote an interesting piece in two thousand 185 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: and six about how somebody fabricated a very sensational story 186 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: about a horrible man who sexually assaulted a woman that 187 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: later led to her death by suicide. The story was 188 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: completely fabricated, but posted on the site without proof and 189 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: it kind of went proto viral, but the torrid tale 190 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: was a total lie just to prove a point. The 191 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: person who wrote that sake post said, the bottom line 192 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: is that this website is dangerous, and the chances of 193 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: a visitor reading some bullshit story like the one that 194 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: I posted about someone they are great. The Miami New 195 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: Times also profiled a man on the site who was 196 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: accused of sexually assaulting a woman, but later it's revealed 197 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: that he's actually never had sex with a woman because 198 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: he's gay, and that the person who wrote that post 199 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: was actually a former coworker of his who was making 200 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: false reports on the site to harass him. In two 201 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: thousand and six, a Pennsylvania attorney filed a suit against 202 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: the website's owner, as well as two alleged posters and 203 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: five unidentified women, for various claims that they made about 204 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: him that he assorted were false and defamatory. The suit 205 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: was initially dismissed in Pennsylvania for lack of personal jurisdiction, 206 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: but in two thousand and seven that man brought a 207 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: second lawsuit in federal court in Florida, which was settled 208 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: after the judge refused to dismiss the new case. The 209 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: terms of the settlement were not disclosed. Girl Don't Date 210 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: Him eventually pivoted to publishing articles about safer gating practices 211 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: until it was shut down entirely. So, if you're wondering, 212 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't a similar platform like the te app just potentially 213 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: turn into a breeding ground for defamation and harassment, I 214 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: had the very same thought, because you don't actually need 215 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: any proof about what is being posted to the app. 216 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: Anyone can basically say anything about anyone, So we do 217 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: know that statistically speaking, it is quite rare for women 218 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: to lie about abuse. Tea Support Team stresses that they 219 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: had a zero tolerance policy for defamatory content and that 220 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: they ask anyone on the receiving end of this to 221 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: get in touch with them. But of course they would 222 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: say that. I actually haven't seen much about how they 223 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: handle it when someone does get in touch about alleged defamation, 224 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: I would be curious to know, and I think given 225 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: the popularity and the attention of the tea app, I 226 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: would guess that that's probably something we'll be hearing more 227 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: about in the next coming weeks or months. 228 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break at our back. 229 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: Listeners probably know that I have kind of a complicated 230 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: relationship with Section two thirty of the Communications Decency Act, 231 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: the controversial law that's says that social media platforms are 232 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: not liable for the content posted by users. Now, we 233 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: have had experts on the show who have both defended 234 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: section two thirty as a critical law for protecting the 235 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: open Internet, and we've had other experts on the show 236 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: who have argued that it should be repealed because it 237 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: lets platforms off the hook for hosting things like hate speech. So, 238 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: needless to say, it's complicated, but as of today, section 239 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: two thirty it's still the law of the land. So 240 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: thanks to section two thirty, the t app itself is 241 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: protected from being liable for the content posted on the platform. 242 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: And according to Elliot Williams, a former Deputy Assistant Attorney 243 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: General at the Justice Department and current legal analyst for CNN, 244 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: in the case of individual users, establishing malicious intent, which 245 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: is required in a defamation lawsuit, might be kind of 246 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: tricky because they could always argue that their aim was 247 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: to protect other women and not to harm someone. But 248 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: as you might imagine, the app's premise was immediately polarizing 249 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: along the lines of gender war stuff. Some praised it 250 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: as a useful way to warn women about the dangerous 251 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,599 Speaker 1: behavior of men, while others called it divisive and a 252 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: violation of men's privacy. Here's what the CEO had to say, 253 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm a release podcast. 254 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: We receive probably about three legal threats a day from 255 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 4: different men that are disappointed that women have told largely 256 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 4: true stories about them on these apps, and so they 257 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 4: are upset that they've done something bad to a woman, 258 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 4: and then a woman has told people about it. And 259 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 4: we have a full legal team that helps us navigate 260 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 4: those situations, and all of the way that we operate 261 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 4: is well within legal guidelines. And then you know, there's 262 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 4: also a whole men's rights activism community that doesn't like 263 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 4: what we're doing, and so they're constantly trying to tear 264 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 4: us down and organize, you know, mass petitions to take 265 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 4: us down and mass reporting of us on the app 266 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 4: stores to try to take us down. So, you know, 267 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 4: we have a lot of people that are unhappy about 268 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 4: what we're doing, and that's okay with us. You know, 269 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 4: we believe that women deserve to be able to share 270 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 4: their story and to be able to have safe relationships. 271 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: So I obviously don't disagree with him that women should 272 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: be able to have safe relationships, but it really highlights 273 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: the question our apps like the t app the digital 274 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: version of a whisper network and a way for women 275 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: to inform each other about potential abusers, stalkers, and catfishes. 276 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: Or is it an app for women to gossip about men, 277 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: potentially defame them and put those men at risk. Here's 278 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: how Dazed puts it in a piece that was written 279 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: before news of the data breach, which we'll get to 280 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: in a moment. For some, the app is a vital resource, 281 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: a way to alert other women to the predators and 282 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: abusers lurking undetected in the dating pool. Unlike anything else 283 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: out there, this is an app designed with women's safety, 284 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: awareness and empowerment as its top priority, reads one review 285 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: on the app Store. It goes beyond basic dating protection 286 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: and truly provides a layer of defense against liars, cheaters, scammers, 287 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: and even predators. Another reviewer says they're glad to have 288 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: a means of warning other women about her abusive X. 289 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: He's attractive, smart, and charming. You'd never know it. For 290 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: so long, I was hoping for a way to warn 291 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: other women off of them. So I do think this 292 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: is legitimately very important, and I don't want to dismiss this. 293 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: Marginalized people especially have been making use of whisper networks 294 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: since forever. Gossip and information sharing can be a real 295 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: tool for women to keep ourselves in our community safe 296 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: when it doesn't always feel like we have access to 297 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: more traditional forms of safety. So I get it. There 298 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: is a real need for this kind of information sharing, 299 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: and I think the popularity of the tea app shows 300 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: that women really do feel like they need ways to 301 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: arm themselves with information to feel safeer when dating. When 302 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: you think about how common things like sexual abuse actually are, 303 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: it makes complete sense to me why women would flock 304 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: to something that says that it's offering them a feeling 305 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: like they can put their safety in their own hands 306 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: by searching a guy on the tea app before they 307 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: let him into their lives. But an app offering women 308 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: safety then lying to them and betraying those women by 309 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: by failing to follow the most basic steps that keeping 310 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: them safe is not it. And when you look at 311 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: what happened with this breach, we really are talking about 312 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: women's actual safety here, not just theoretically, So let's talk 313 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: about the breach I mentioned the app. It's only for women, 314 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: so in order to verify your gender, anyone signing up 315 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: to the app needs to submit a selfie, but in 316 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: earlier iterations of this app, in addition to a selfie, 317 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: women also had to submit their driver's licenses. One of 318 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: my big questions was how the app deals with trans 319 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: women or non binary people. The app does not disallow 320 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: trans women. I'm not totally sure about non binary people, 321 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and let's not dive too much into the binary of 322 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: the app verifying one's gender to keep men out. But 323 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: if this is something that you've had experience with, please 324 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: let me know. You can shoot me a DM or 325 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: email us at hello at tenggo dot com. So once 326 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: your information is submitted to the t app, then there 327 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: is a waiting period up to seventeen hours or more 328 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: if a lot of people are trying to sign up 329 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: for the app at the same time as you now. 330 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: T said that. In twenty twenty three, it removed the 331 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: requirement for photo ID in addition to the selfie, so 332 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: now you to submit a selfie. But that bit about 333 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,239 Speaker 1: having to submit your driver's license is going to be 334 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: pretty key here. So on Friday night, after the news 335 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: roundup is published and live in the world, your girl 336 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: is happily too, Margaritea is deep at the bar and 337 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: the folks who run the te app said that there 338 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: had been a data breach of a legacy storage system 339 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: holding data for its users. This came after the app 340 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: angered some men and prompted a thread on the extremist 341 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: troll message board four chan in which users called for 342 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: a hack and leak campaign of the tapp. A spokesperson 343 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: for the t app confirmed all of this to Life Hacker, 344 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: saying Tea identified unauthorized access to one of its systems 345 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: and immediately launched a full investigation to assess the scope 346 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: and impact. The initial results of this effort suggest that 347 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: the incident involved a legacy data storage system containing information 348 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: from over two years ago. Approximately seventy two thousand images, 349 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: including approximately thirteen thousand images of selfies and photo identification 350 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: submitted during the verification, and fifty nine thousand images publicly 351 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: viewable in the app from posts, comments, and direct messages 352 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: were accessed without authorization. So yeah, that includes about thirteen 353 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: thousand images of women's drivers' licenses that they submitted back 354 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: when that was a requirement to join the app, and 355 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: also posts, comments, and direct messages in the apps were 356 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: also part of this breach. Now here's kind of a 357 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: key detail. According to Tea's privacy policy, the selfies that 358 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: it requires from people signing up for the app are 359 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: deleted shortly after those users are verified. But that obviously 360 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: was not happening, or at least it wasn't happening with 361 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: the images that were included in that breach, according to 362 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: The New York Times, rather than being deleted like the 363 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: privacy policy said would happen, that data was stored quote 364 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: in compliance with law enforcement requirements related to cyber bullying prevention, 365 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: T said in a statement, and that data was not 366 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: moved to newer systems that Tea said were better fortified. 367 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: So basically, the t app lied to its users about 368 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: the privacy policies that it was taking. It's also not 369 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: clear what law enforcement requirements are talking about. I've got 370 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: to admit it kind of sounds like a pretty convenient 371 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: dodge to me, but I'm not totally sure. When the 372 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: breach initially happened, the company said that the only people 373 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: impacted were those who signed up before February twenty twenty four, 374 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: but on Monday, four or four Media reported that there 375 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: was a second major security issue, impacting women who had 376 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: signed up and used the app much more recently. Basically, 377 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: the t app exposed much more user data than was 378 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: initially reported, with an independent security researcher now finding that 379 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: it was possible for hackers to access really sensitive direct 380 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: messages between users. Kasher Rajarity, the researcher who flagged the 381 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: issue to four or for Media, sent a database of 382 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: more than one point one million messages they said stretched 383 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: from early twenty twenty three to as recently as last week, 384 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: and some of the private messages viewed by four l 385 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: for Media that hackers could have had access to included 386 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: various insive stuff, conversations about having had abortions, information about 387 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: cheating partners, and even messages that included people's phone numbers. 388 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: Despite Tea's initial statement that the only thing impacted was 389 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: information from over two years ago, the researcher also said 390 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: that they found the ability to send a push notification 391 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: to all of Tea's users like it is hard to 392 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: overstate how bad this is, so just to be clear, 393 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: I am not a software developer, so I'm not an 394 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: expert in this, but doing some research, it sounds like 395 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: the company has a lot of the blame here, to 396 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: the point where I'm not even sure that it's fair 397 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: to call this a hack or a leak, because they 398 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: were just that sloppy with user data like it truly 399 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: sounds like these women had photos and their driver's license 400 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: photos posted to four chan because the tee app just 401 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: didn't bother to take basic security steps. Four or four Media, 402 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: one of my favorite tech outlets, was the first to 403 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: break the story of what happened, which is that users 404 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: from four chan claimed to have discovered and exposed an 405 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: unsecured day database hosted on Google's mobile app development platform Firebase, 406 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: belonging to the t app. On four chan, folks were 407 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: bragging that this let them rifle through women's personal data 408 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: and selfies that were uploaded to the app. Then, of course, 409 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: they posted that data online. Over on four Chan, users exclaimed, yes, 410 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: if you sent t app your face and driver's license, 411 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: they dos you publicly. No authentication, no nothing, it's a 412 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: public bucket driver's licenses and face picks. Get the fuck 413 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: in here before they shut it down. Now, the thread 414 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: says that the issue was this exposed database that allowed 415 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: anybody to access this material, and ROO four media confirmed 416 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: a VOLUMEUS list of specific attachment associated with the t app. 417 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: Eventually that page was locked down. The four chan post 418 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: includes a photo of four women's driver's licenses that the 419 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: four chan user says they wedacted, but the comment on 420 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: that four Chan thread indicate that many more photos of 421 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: te users have been exposed, with one person claiming that 422 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: they downloaded thousands. Four four media saw four chan users 423 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: share dozens of photos of women that they claim were 424 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: downloaded from the database, which all shared the same image 425 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: dimensions and file naming formats that they saw on the 426 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: list in the exposed of Google firebase bucket. Initially, the 427 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: person who discovered all this says they tried to report 428 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,959 Speaker 1: it to Google but ended up reporting it to four 429 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: or four media instead. So let's break this down, because 430 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: it's basically like if your doctor stored your private personal 431 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: medical records in an open crate in the back alley 432 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: behind the clinic, or like if your bank stored all 433 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: of your money in an open shoe box in the 434 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: bank f lobby. Obviously, it's pretty fucked up for four 435 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: chan to access this. But it is even more fucked 436 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: up that the t app, this app that is getting 437 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: away with feeling themselves to be about women's safety, is 438 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: letting this level of sensitive information just essentially be publicly accessible. 439 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: I cannot overstate what a massive, massive fuck up this 440 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: is because both because of the very serious harm that 441 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: has been done to these thirteen thousand women, and also 442 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: because it happened because the developers just left this information 443 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: and sitting out there unsecured for anybody to just come 444 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: and get it. 445 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 5: More after a quick break, let's. 446 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 2: Get right back into it. 447 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: So what the ever loving flock happened here? We don't 448 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: actually know. A lot of my cybersecurity friends that I 449 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: talked to about this said that the site might have 450 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: been vibe coded, which is when someone who doesn't know 451 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: any better, or is just careless and sloppy and lazy, 452 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: just uses AI to help them put together a site 453 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: and they don't really know the things they should be 454 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: asking for, so it comes out really janky. But other 455 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: friends have suggested this could also just be a careless person. 456 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: There's also the idea that this kind of fuck up 457 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: is unfortunately not super uncommon. Just a few weeks ago, 458 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: the insurance company Alliance Life disclosed a breach through a 459 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: third party cloud vender affecting most of its one point 460 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: four million US customers, including financial professionals and employees, and 461 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: all of their personal data was accessed and due to 462 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: a Google Analytics misconfiguration on their site, up to four 463 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: point seven million individuals had their names, insurance details, zip codes, 464 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: and patient identifiers shared improperly. So as shocking as this is, 465 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: this kind of breach is not terribly uncommon. There was 466 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: also such big fervor around the TF breach an interactive 467 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: Google map was circulating online purporting to show where all 468 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: the different women's addresses included in the breach were located. 469 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: This even not to a point where a fake story 470 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: emerged on social media using an AI generated news broadcaster 471 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: warning women about the so called tea bag killer, who 472 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: the fake report said was killing the women whose addresses 473 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: were exposed in the breach. Now this is not. 474 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 6: True, controversy clinging to it in the form of an 475 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 6: AI generated newscast. 476 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: This week, police are investigating a string of murders linked 477 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: the tea app where women who exposed men were later 478 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: found dead. 479 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 6: Detroit, Bola you say there was absolutely no truth to 480 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 6: the show called tea Bag Killer a stuff their throats 481 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 6: with tea bags. 482 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 4: The post even had a name of a deepd investigator. 483 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: There's no one by that name that works for the department. 484 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 6: But if you're not looking, these deep fakes can be 485 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 6: tricky to. 486 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: Spot, so thankfully you don't have to worry about the 487 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: tea Bag Killer. But we cannot not talk about the 488 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: gender dynamics at play here because something that almost feels 489 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: a little I don't know hinky about this entire thing 490 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: is that it fits so squarely and neatly into a 491 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: gender wars framework. You know, women using an app that 492 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: they believe to be anonymous to share pictures of men 493 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: and gossip about men, men saying this is dosing, and 494 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: then those same women getting docks by the really sloppy 495 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: privacy protocols, and their images being posted all over the 496 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: internet like it almost seems like a tailor made kind 497 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: of gender wars just so story to the point where 498 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: when I first heard about this breach, I almost wondered 499 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: if it was some kind of a setup. And of 500 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: course those women's images were floating all over the Internet, 501 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: with men making fun of them with all kinds of sexist, 502 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: misogynistic barbs. And just a few days after the breach, 503 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: someone made a site that ranks the looks of the 504 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: women featured in the breached images, which, hey, I thought 505 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg already had that idea, And some of those 506 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: photos have been ranked tens of thousands of times, And 507 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: I think that really demonstrates why women would flock to 508 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: an app like the tee app. You know, an app 509 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: that is promising, even falsely, to help women have safer 510 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: experiences with men. The fact that men on Fordshan would 511 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: do this kind of thing kind of proves their point. 512 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: When I went to see what people were saying about 513 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,479 Speaker 1: this online, I found a lot of women upset at 514 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: the idea that men would be so bothered that women 515 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: would have a space online to discuss the behavior of men. 516 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: One Instagram comment on the tea App's Instagram page reads, Wow, 517 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: It's crazy how some men are genuinely upset about this app, 518 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: mainly because it disrupts their ability to move in deception 519 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: and avoid taking accountability for their actions. The t app's 520 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: Instagram page is littered with stories purporting to show women 521 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: who have used the app to find out their husbands 522 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: or the fathers of their kids are running around on them, 523 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: though it's not clear to me if these are actually 524 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: real stories or just more marketing from the app. And again, 525 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to discount that women should have as 526 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: a base to talk about their experiences in dating, and 527 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't want the survivors of abuse to go unheard. 528 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: But I have to admit that I am personally very 529 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: uncomfortable with apps like this, even while I understand why 530 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: women might feel empowered by what these apps are selling. 531 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: And of course there's already calls and online forms to 532 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: make a version of the tea app for men to 533 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: rate women as payback, even though men kind of already 534 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: have this, like men don't really need a dedicated app 535 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: to rate women. One such app, called Tea Borne, according 536 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: to NBC News, quickly ignited backlash after its creator called 537 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: out users for posting revenge. Wow. What a shocker. Who 538 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: could have seen that coming. The Tea Born app has 539 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: now been removed from the app store, and there are 540 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,479 Speaker 1: men all over men's rights reddit communities saying that this 541 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: is evidence of anti mal bias, that the t app 542 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: for women to rate men would be able to remain 543 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: on the App Store, but the app for men to 544 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: rate women was taken down. I think what makes me 545 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: the most angry about this entire thing, honestly, isn't the 546 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: four Chan goons responsible. It's the fact that this app 547 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: would purport to give women a space to keep themselves 548 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: safe and betray them so cruelly by putting them at risk. 549 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: Like as fucked up as four Chan is for circulating 550 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: these images in this data, who expects anything other than 551 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: this kind of behavior from the guys who hang out 552 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: on four Chan. If anything, the fact that these kinds 553 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: of threats exist for women should mean that the people 554 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: who run apps like the Tea app have an even 555 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: bigger responsibility to protect those women that they have attracted 556 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: to their platform with the promise of caring about their safety, 557 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: or at the very least, east they ought to not 558 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: be outright line to those women about what steps they're 559 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: taking to keep them safe so they can make up 560 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: their own minds about whether or not they're going to 561 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: trust this platform. The t app issued an apology for 562 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: the breach, but it kind of doesn't matter. They had 563 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: a responsibility to protect their users and they failed hard 564 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: and suck ups like this are not a force of nature. 565 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: They happened because somebody somewhere in the company decided that 566 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: this about of security was good enough. They could have 567 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: hired additional software engineers or contracted with an outside company 568 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: to do a security audit, but they didn't. They decided 569 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: to spend money on other stuff, and it's obvious that 570 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: they did not invest enough in security to keep their 571 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: users safe. The t app security practices, or lack thereof, 572 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: make me think that this app that was started by 573 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: a man was never really invested in women's safety at all, 574 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: because if they were, they would have had better security practices. 575 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,479 Speaker 1: I think that what they were actually interested in is 576 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: just capitalizing on the inevitable online engagement from the promise 577 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: of women telling each other juicy stories about men. Cover 578 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: that with a little splashy, pink influencer style social media presence, 579 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: and you've got a solid business plan to capitalize on 580 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: the unpleasant experiences of women. Who cares if you put 581 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: those women at risk? I mean, this is just my 582 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: personal take, but I think the t app was basically 583 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: quickly and sloppily thrown together with security and privacy obviously 584 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: as an afterthought, just to generate and make use of 585 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: gendered rage bait in order to garner attention for the app. 586 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: And the sad thing is this is effective. I just 587 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: checked and the t app is currently the number two 588 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: app on the entire app store. To put that in perspective, 589 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: right now, the number one app is Chatsheet BT And 590 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: I guess ultimately, I simply do not trust a lot 591 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: of for profit apps that are selling and packaging safety 592 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: to women, because real safety is not someone telling you 593 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: on an app that a guy is a red flag. 594 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: It's having safer communities, healthier relationship dynamics, avenues for meaningful accountability. 595 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: It's about being able to communicate on platforms that aren't 596 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: just lying to us and exploiting us and putting us 597 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: at risk. So yeah, I guess I just don't like 598 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: the idea of safety being sold to us as a 599 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: for profit app, and I think it also creates a 600 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: dynamic that puts the burden on keeping yourself safe on women, 601 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: like we should be able to have safe dating experiences 602 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: without relying on apps that ultimately exploit us. And honestly, 603 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: what makes me really sad is that on the tee 604 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: app's Instagram posts about the breach. A lot of the 605 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: comments are from women who do not seem to care 606 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: about the breach. They just want to know when their 607 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: verification to sign up for the app will be approved. 608 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: And it makes me sad that the state of gender 609 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: in dating is so bad that even on a post 610 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: about the app admitting how carelessly it treated very sensitive 611 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: information of their users, people are still just clamoring to 612 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: get on the app like it makes me think we 613 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: really are cooked. And I think the Tea app is 614 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: a bit of a harbinger of things to come bad 615 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: things to be clear, because we've talked a lot about 616 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: the rise of age verification laws and laws that would 617 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: require folks to submit their government ID to access different 618 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: corners of the inn. I am very personally against laws 619 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: like this for several reasons, but what happened with the 620 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: t app reach is an excellent example of one of 621 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: those reasons. A lot of what keeps us secure online 622 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: comes down to shared norms, like we learn not to 623 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: click those suspicious links and not to give away our 624 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: two factor authentication codes, or had to spot a scam 625 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: or a spoof call. But when apps and websites start 626 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: asking for more and more sensitive information, like social security numbers, 627 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: face scans, our photo IDs. It trains us to just 628 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: hand over our data without really thinking twice about it. 629 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: Sharing this kind of information can start to feel as 630 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: automatic as just hitting agree on terms of service without 631 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: thinking much about it, and that is no good. The 632 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: more apps and services that require us to give up 633 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: our personal information, they're more opportunity there is for that 634 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: information to fall into the wrong hands. Cybersecurity experts sometimes 635 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: call this expanding the surface area of risk, and the 636 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: real problem is is that we don't have any real 637 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: way of knowing how our data will be stored or 638 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: used once we hand it over. The tea app said 639 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: they were deleting verification, selfies and government IDs, but we 640 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: can see that they clearly did not, because that information 641 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: is now floating all over the Internet. So a company 642 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: might say, oh, yeah, we're following very strict privacy policies, 643 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean they actually are, and the t 644 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: app obviously wasn't. Even companies with solid security protocols can 645 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: still get hacked hacked, and when the stakes are this high, 646 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: you know when what's being collected is tied to your 647 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: government name and identity, and address these risks are not theoretical. 648 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: As more platforms require ID uploads and facial recognition, I 649 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: think we're only going to see more problems with this, 650 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: and weak security practices are not just inconvenient, they're dangerous, 651 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: not just for women, for all of us. Last year, 652 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: for or for Media reported that a company that verifies 653 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: the identities of kicktok uber and x users, sometimes by 654 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: processing photographs of their faces and pictures of their driver's licenses, 655 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: exposed a set of an administrative credentials online for more than 656 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: a year, potentially allowing hackers to access that sensitive data. 657 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: And this is happening as more social networks and pornography 658 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: sites move toward an identity or age verification model in 659 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: which users are required to upload their real identity documents 660 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: to access certain services, usually because laws require it in 661 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 1: a misguided effort to protect children. The Tea breach highlights 662 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: that identity services are themselves a prime target for hackers 663 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: and a major threat to all of our safety. So 664 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: if these are the same companies that we might all 665 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: be using, if age verification becomes more widespread across the country, 666 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: we could all very well be at risk. So as 667 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: for the Tea app, in the wake of the breach, 668 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: They say they have engaged third party cybersecurity experts and 669 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: are working around the clock to secure systems. In a statement, 670 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: they said, at this time, we have implemented additional security 671 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 1: measures and a fixed the data issue. We are currently 672 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: working to determine the full nature and scope of the 673 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: information involved in the incident. Protecting our users' privacy and 674 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: data is our highest priority. We are taking every necessary 675 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: step to ensure the security of our platform and prevent 676 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: further exposure. This is tail as old as the Internet itself. 677 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: Company rushes to build sloppy software, pushes it to users 678 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: with weak security, gets burned by a data breach, and 679 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: then and only then invest in resources that actually protect 680 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: their users. But it shouldn't take a disaster like this 681 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: one for a company to do the right thing and 682 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: prioritize user safety. And this kind of thing honestly tells 683 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: you a ton about a company's values and the values 684 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: of the people who work there. So not to put 685 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: too fine a point on it, but I think if 686 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: you currently have the t app, you should delete it. 687 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that any company that lies to its 688 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: users while purporting to be all about keeping themselves is 689 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: a company that you can trust, even if they do 690 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: clean up their act. Women deserve so much better. Got 691 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just 692 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,479 Speaker 1: want to say hi? You can reach us at Hello 693 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: at tengody dot com. You can also find transcripts for 694 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls 695 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: on the Internet was created by me Brigitad. It's a 696 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed. Created Jonathan Strickland is our 697 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. 698 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: Michael Almato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Dodd. 699 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: If you want to help us grow, rate and review 700 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check 701 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 702 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: your podcasts.