WEBVTT - The MeidasTouch vs. the Right-Wing Media Machine 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.200 We just want people to you know, live their lives 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:07.640 and be happy and be able to enjoy it without 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.480 some you know, lunatic screaming in their face every three seconds. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:15.280 We should be focusing on the issues that actually occupy 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.040 a lot of the mental space in Americans' minds, that 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:21.960 are filled with conspiracies, and we should fill it with 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:23.079 the truth and solutions. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.480 As we built Midas Touched, that community aspect was almost 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.720 more important than us saying you know, here are our 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.520 political beliefs and here are these political stances, but more like, hey, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.360 don't y'all want things to be normal? 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.440 Hi? Everyone, I'm Kittie Couric, and this is next question. 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.400 It's no secret that one of the things that propelled 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.600 Donald Trump to victory in the last election was right 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:53.080 wing media, a potent combination of conservative cable podcasts and 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.840 social media influencers. Now progressive voices are trying to make 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.800 sure that their footprint is as powerful and as big. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.720 The Micellas brothers have created The Midas Touch, one of 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.959 the few digital networks. Yes, they considered themselves a network 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:15.040 to crack the code, gaining millions of followers and even 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.520 beating Joe Rogan for the number one spot on Apple 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.120 Podcasts a few months back, So I'm really excited to 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.000 talk to them about what they're doing and how they're 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:29.840 doing it. First of all, hello guys, welcome to next question. 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.120 Thank you so much. An exclusive, the first time the 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.000 three of you have done an in person interview together, 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.720 right first, that early first Wow, I'm very honored and 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.800 very flattered, and I wanted to ask a little bit 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.160 about your life story. You all grew up on Long Island, 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:52.680 you all had your own respective careers. Ben, What were 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.560 you doing before you decided to embark on this venture. 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.720 Well, I was a lawyer. I went to law school 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.080 at Georgetown Law was a civil rights lawyer, and I 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:06.640 was working civil rights cases out in the Bakersfield, Fresno area, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:10.960 representing families who lost loved ones in police brutality cases. 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:11.400 Wow. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:12.880 So it was through that work that I. 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:17.560 Ended up meeting Colin Kaepernick, and Colin Kaepernick took a 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.400 knee for police brutality to bring attention to it, and 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:25.079 then from there the pandemic happened and the Minus Touch 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.200 network kind of sprung out of it. But my background 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.799 was a lawyer. I think my parents were surprised when 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.040 I went into podcasting. 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:31.360 But I. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:33.960 Think they're happy within them. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.400 I'm sure they are. How about you, Brett, what were 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:36.840 you doing? 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:38.440 I was a film and TV so I moved out 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.639 to Los Angeles to go to USC and I was 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.680 in film school there and then I graduated freelance for 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.680 a bid, ended up working for the Ellen Degenero Show 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.840 as an editor there, ran the digital department, post production 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.240 team over there. I had a great experience. Ended up 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.360 working for as a creative executive in film and television 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.640 after that, and then the pandemic hit. Production quickly shut 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.799 down and we started this project and the rest is history. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.360 Well, you guys were really early adapters for like digital content. 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.520 I remember doing such an incredible job, so you knew, gosh, 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.160 a lot of people aren't watching the show at home. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.079 We are going to make sure that everyone sees it online. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:18.160 And I got to give them a lot of credit. 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.680 On the producers, there are a lot of credit. They 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.800 saw that incredibly early on. And what ended up happening 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:24.400 was when I got there, there was a team of 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.560 like five people. I was the new guy. There was like, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.760 you know, four or five other people. By the time 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:30.520 I left there, you know, we had a team of 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.920 I don't know if you include you know, kind of 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.040 other staff kind of associated with it, probably more like 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.400 eighty people there. And so I saw this entire division 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.480 of Digital blossom and I got to be there while 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.720 it happened. And I never thought that editing and helping 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.480 to create videos that maybe about human interest stories and 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:49.720 cat videos and whatever we were doing there would end 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.000 up apply to making political videos. But somehow I think 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.520 it ended up being a great education actually and doing that. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.040 So I'm sure it did. Meanwhile, the baby, Geordy, tell 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.760 me what you were up before you got involved in this. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.600 Marketing and advertising. Actually, right here in New York, heart 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.360 of Times Square, this agency called Translation Incredible Agency. I 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.680 like to say that they gave me my PhD in 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.400 New age marketing. It was really awesome. It was a 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.040 nimble operation over there. I think they had less than 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.520 maybe eighty to one hundred employees when I was there, 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.080 and so you got to wear a lot of different hats, 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.160 so from the creative department to strategy to account management, 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.000 just kind of seeing campaigns, taking them from the earliest 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.080 stages of development and seeing the whole execution all the 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.600 way through. It was really really cool and seeing how 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.040 they kind of used new age tech and social media 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.080 to really emphasize and reach their audience in different ways. 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:40.720 It was eye opening at the time. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.440 So your skill sets really complement each other. You all 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.320 bring something different to the table. And so it's the pandemic. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.200 You all are getting increasingly frustrated by what you're watching unfold, 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:57.520 to say the least. And Ben, what was your aha moment, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.960 like we have to do more? And how did you 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.200 all come together and say let's launch this new venture. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.360 Well, you heard our backgrounds. We're not political people missing 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.479 from those backgrounds with stories of working in politics. We're 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.920 just people who were scared during the pandemic. We were nervous, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.440 we were worried about our families, we were worried about 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.080 our friends, and we were sending each other text messages 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.279 about what we were going through, and so we said, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.760 how do we translate those messages into you know, we 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.200 almost felt selfish if we didn't bring what we were 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.119 talking about to the public. So we just started saying, 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.120 what if we wrote about this, What if we started 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.599 a blog, What if we use bread skills who could 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.919 do videos and editing? What if we use Geordie's marketing 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:48.159 skills and just start telling people, here's what we're feeling, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.160 here's what we're experiencing. You're not alone, we're a family, 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.159 and here's what we're trying to do to help each other. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:00.280 So we start releasing a article, a video that Brett 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.279 edits Geordie helps coming up with some of the framing 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.000 of it with his marketing skills, and it seemed to 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:11.200 resonate because nobody had really seen a focus on these 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:16.080 topics that really focused on the human experience as opposed 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.800 to just kind of an overtly political side to it. 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.359 So people had this kind of aha, like I feel 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.359 that way too, And once we started seeing that, the 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.040 shock to us was like, wait a minute, no one 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.400 else is really talking like that and connecting in that way. 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.119 And so we did it again and again and again, 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.040 and from there it just kind of kept on growing. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.160 You know, a video did one hundred thousand views, then 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.320 a million views, then five million views, and from there 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.359 it kind of sprung up and a community started developing 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.320 around it, and the months progressed and we started seeing 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.320 that this was actually having a real impact. 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.760 And then you sort of broadened your aperture if you will, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.000 and kind of started focusing on all kinds of things, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.719 not just obviously the COVID and the or misinformation or 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.479 how you were feeling and what was upsetting you, but 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.000 the political spectrum in general, right, Brett. 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.080 Yeah, no, one hundred percent. You know, I think we 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.240 just you know, we were trying to share our lived 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.960 experience with everybody out there, and so when we saw 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.840 something was that we thought was crazy, we would just 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.440 be like, this, isn't this crazy? Everybody what we're watching together? 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.640 Like is it just us? And like I think for 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:25.520 a while we were all just looking at each other 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.120 like I don't understand, Like why is this being treated 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.040 like this is normal? Especially was during the time when 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.960 you know, Trump was saying this fifteen cases going down 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:35.640 to zero, It's never going to come to our short 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.960 it was just lie after lie after lie, and I 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.160 was like we were all like, you know, this is 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.440 going to be bad, right this is and then we 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.280 just kept seeing, you know, all the kind of political 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.120 ramifications stem from there. I think that was a very 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.200 kind of pivotal moment in shaping people's beliefs. And in 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.520 addition to just COVID, I think a lot of people 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.520 at that point were sort of being siloed into different 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.360 kind of groups at that point, and there was a 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.440 deep division that was kind of being put into our society, 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:04.560 and people were kind of falling. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:09.200 Into force by their own self selection are algorithmically reinforve and. 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.320 The fact that everybody was home and everybody was not 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.880 speaking with each other. And so as we develop mad 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.640 to people were mad for all different reasons. I mean people, 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.600 some people were mad that they had to you know, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.040 be home. Some people were mad that, you know, why 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.040 isn't this Why don't they just take the vaccine? Why 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.440 don't they respect my space? People were all mad at 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.640 each other for all different reasons, and so there were 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:34.880 these communities developing, and so community became an essential aspect 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.880 to us, more so than the politics of are you 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.400 able to kind of assemble a community that's based around 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.800 kind of positivity and wanting to do the right thing 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.280 rather than a lot of these sort of more malicious 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.439 online communities that exist out there that seek to kind 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.240 of sew division and hatred. And during that time there 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.640 was definitely, you know a lot of that, and so 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.920 as we built kind of might as touched the community 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.440 aspect was almost more important than us saying you know, 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.679 here are political beliefs, and here are these political stances, 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.080 but more like, hey, don't you all want things to 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.080 be normal? Like can't we see that this stuff is 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.840 freaking nuts? And like if we could all just rally 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.400 around that, like maybe we could actually put those political 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.600 differences aside in many ways. And so as we progressed, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.760 one of the things that we saw was that, you know, 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.880 there were folks who may consider themselves, you know, as 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.040 liberal as could be, joining us. Then there were folks 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.679 who consider themselves Republicans or former Republicans who were joining 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.360 us independence. Like we saw, you know, people coming to 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.120 us for all sorts of reasons. But at the end 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.160 of the day, I think the core was people just 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.559 wanting things to be like normal again, right, understanding that 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:40.760 what we're seeing then, and by the way, what we're 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.320 still seeing now is not normal. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.240 I was going to say, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily say, 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.319 and you can correct me if you disagree that your 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.080 content exudes positivity at this moment in time. And I 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.400 feel like you have gone through various iterations, Jeordi. During 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:02.880 the Biden administration, were you guys a little more dormant. 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.360 There were fewer things for people of a certain political persuasion, 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.720 I think, to be outraged about. So did your growth 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:17.240 really explode after the election of Donald Trump the second time? 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.720 No, I would say we saw our strongest growth period 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.000 when President Biden was president. During that era. I think 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.520 it's a slight misconception about what we do that you know, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.360 maybe like like just angry you know, out the world 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.520 or or anything like that. We really just try and 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.400 bring folks facts and data, and it's sort of that 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.400 approach that has led the community to grow. When you 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.920 watch our videos, for example, you know Ben will say 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:42.320 a couple of sentences, We'll just say play the clip, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.880 because playing the clip many times is way more effective 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.840 than Ben explaining every little slight detail and maybe even 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.520 giving his opinion in that second. If people are just 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.719 take away the receipts from the videos and we let 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.960 them form their own opinion, that's where we've genuinely seen 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.280 the most growth of the network and of the community, 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.400 because it's to really the values that we care about. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.600 We just want things to be normal. We just want 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.079 people to you know, live their lives and be happy 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.320 and be able to enjoy it without some you know, 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.520 lunatic screaming in their face every three seconds. And so 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.640 I think we've seen tremendous growth during the Biden administration, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:19.959 and we continue to see growth right now as well. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.520 But again, I think people are always coming to us 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.640 for the facts and for the data, and that's what 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:25.359 it's allowed. 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.080 To grow, I think, cause we've been there now for 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.240 about five years. A lot of people shut off after 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.160 the last election, and they were looking for fighters, and 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.520 they were looking for people to stand up to them. 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.720 And I hope we've always been authentic to those same 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.360 values when we just started this out in twenty twenty 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.920 as what we're doing now, so as we were out 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:50.480 there still fighting, and I think people a group of 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.080 people lost a lot of hope after this election, so 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.400 they turned and they saw what we were doing, and 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.640 I think that also helped give them hope, which allowed 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.480 a lot more people to maybe notice what we were 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.160 doing now. And also we were doing things on the 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.280 digital realm that a lot of people are adopting now 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:14.000 right in our YouTube strategy, our focus on simulcasting videos 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.880 and audio was just a different way to even kind 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.920 of approach this space, which also I think has been 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:22.720 a bit kind of pioneering, and we could talk about 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.000 that later, but that's part of I think where we're 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.360 seeing and we're humble and grateful for it. But some 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.839 of the recognition is, oh, lots of people didn't even 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.240 know what we were talking about, and we were saying 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.920 simulcast right a year ago or more. And now that's 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.079 the you know, the new lingo. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.400 You know, if a Martian landed on Earth and you 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.360 had to explain to him or her what the Midas 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:52.200 Touch Network is in you know, an elevator pitch, how 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:53.760 would you do it? Who wants to take that? 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:55.920 I mean, I mean, I think it's a podcast that's 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.920 fueled by a community, and the community. 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.960 It's not just a pot well podcast, I guess, as 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.440 we know are video and audio, but it's sort of 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.400 you're doing everything everywhere all at once. Right but sorry 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:09.800 the Martian interrupted, you go on. 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.000 You know it's it's it's the community is built on 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.319 you know, I think, core values and principles and that's 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.880 what's the success. And what we're trying to readjust everybody 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.280 to remember is that politicans, the Martians going to I 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.480 may have lost the Martian elevator speech, but I'll give 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.360 you my academic speech for the market. I'm assuming the 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:44.439 Martians mar well leg well educated mar mars exactly. But 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.640 but I think politics has been gamified into your this team, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.640 you're that team. You're angry, you're angry, yell at each other, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.160 and the viewers left a little bit confused, Wait, what's 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.880 what's even the issue? And they try to pick what 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.679 team do I like based on the style of the 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.200 fight and the style of the debate and who's winning 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.840 that fight. And that's the split screen cable news yell, yell, yale. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.920 So we try to deconstruct that, and we come with 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.839 an opinion and a strong opinion, but we try to 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.800 root it in a trial lawyer approach. Here's the evidence, 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.480 here's the exhibit, here's why we feel this way. Agree 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.960 with us, don't agree with us, but here's here's what 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.640 we're grounded in. And so rather than have a four 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:31.040 minute segment of yelling with thirty seconds of the actual news, 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.000 we try to root it in eleven to thirteen minutes 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:35.960 of the facts with opinion. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:37.840 But it's the facts that drive it. 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.720 What I would say to the Martian, I would say that, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.200 but Also, one of the things I think you all 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:48.200 do so effectively is connect the dots in this crazy, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.280 fragmented media landscape, you know, with so much happening, particularly 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.560 in the early days of the second Trump administration. I 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:00.720 think what you do so artfully is is you kind 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.600 of connect, you know, you thread all these things. If 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:09.400 an expert saying this, and then Caroline Levitt is saying that, 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.640 and you know, you're taking all these different things and 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:17.960 you're kind of helping people understand and aggregate what all 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.160 these these moments mean. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.720 Is that that's why you're Katie Kirk no part of 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:25.960 your yes. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.040 You know. It's funny because we were speaking about this. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.440 I think, like just yesterday that there's so much noise 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.920 out there, and you I think we all thought, you know, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.520 if we went back I don't know even ten years ago, 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.920 but probably more than that, probably thought, oh, with the Internet, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:42.760 with digital media, with also there's going to be so 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.440 much information. People are going to be so well informed, 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.000 people are going to be smarter than ever, They're going 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.000 to be on top of everything. It's going to be 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.920 so clear to know what's true and what's fiction. It's 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.520 clearly like the opposite at this point of what we're seeing. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.320 There's such a deluge of information coming at people every 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.320 single day. So I think one of the things that 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.240 we do try to do is what you just hit at, 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.840 which is how do we cut through that noise with 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.240 a message that's clear, that could resonate, that gets the 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.040 truth across in the midst of just all of this 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.560 chaos that's coming every single day. Certainly that's been ramped 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.440 up since Trump's second administration, where I think part of 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.240 their strategy is also to flood the zone. I mean, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.800 you think back to what's yeah, you think back to 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.240 what Bannon said in twenty sixteen or whenever he made 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.000 that statement, flood the zone with shit. I don't know 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:29.520 if I'm lent. 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:30.200 To say that. 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.360 Weak here, and and that's definitely been their strategy this 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.400 time around as well. Just do so much that it's 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.440 almost impossible for you know, an average person to try 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.240 to keep up with it. But we that's one of 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:45.800 the things we try to do is really center the 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.880 conversation on you know, these are the distractions, these are 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.640 the important issues, These are the things that are actually 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.640 going to affect you know, you your family, you know, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:55.119 your friends, your coworkers. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.840 These are these things you really need to understand. Yeah, 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.240 for sure, and I think it You're right. I mean, 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:04.480 a combination of things is making it so difficult to 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.480 stay informed. And a story that happened four days ago, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.639 the country has moved on and it's like, hey, whatever 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.399 happened to the Associated Press getting kicked out of the 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.640 White House press room? And you know what about all 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.840 these right wing media influencers who are now taking over 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.520 seats that once belong to legacy media? Would you describe 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:32.840 yourselves as journalists, curators, producers or do you think there 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.880 isn't really a category for what you do? Jordy, you're smiling, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:37.800 Go ahead, you. 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.120 Know, I've never thought of it like that. I view 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:45.000 as as concerned citizens first and foremost, we just. 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:46.840 Want to they're building a media impure. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.399 Well, the funny thing about that is a journy. I 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.240 don't mean to no go for it. When we do interview. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.000 We don't do a lot of interviews about ourselves, so 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.840 we're actually not that and I mean this sincerely reflective 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.360 on like who we are because we center the network 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.520 around the community and around the message to the people, 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.840 so it is always you know, interesting sometimes, you know, 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.960 and lately we don't do a lot of interviews, but 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.920 sometimes when we're reflecting on like who we are and 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:18.760 what does it mean? 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.960 But maybe just think about instead of you guys like 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:26.560 as brothers, sort of who is the Midas Network, right, 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.200 you know, And I guess it's a lot of things, right, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:29.960 and it's. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:34.119 Most importantly it's been built on the community of people 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.399 in America and frankly people around the world who are 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.720 concerned about the human condition and experience. That's how I 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:45.000 would say it, very you know, very succinctly. But I 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.000 think we are a media network. We run a media 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.000 network filled with some of the best reporters out there. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.320 We have a great editorial team that breaks stories. You know, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.720 I consider what I do on a day to day basis. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.359 I'm reporting on the news, we break exclusives, we report 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.520 on news that happens, and you know, we try to 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:06.440 contextualize everything. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:07.439 Right as best we can. That's all. 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:07.680 You know. 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:12.359 I'm wondering, could you do what you do without legacy media? 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.200 In other words, I know you use a lot of 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:19.320 clips from MSNBC or Fox or CNN, you use reporting, 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.680 and then I think you make it understandable. As I said, 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.360 you call from a lot of different sources and kind 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.720 of give people the big picture, at least in a 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.760 lot of the content I'm looking at, But the big 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.879 beef while legacy media gets trashed and everything is a 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:39.000 lot of these content creators and even digital media networks 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.639 could not do what they do without. You know, with 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.560 all due respect to the reporters you have, but with 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:51.360 this vast array of legacy media organizations that are covering 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.520 the world to are interviewing Scot Galloway on CNN or 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.399 doing something else with some other expert from you might 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.760 run a CLI. So I'm just curious how you feel 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:06.000 about that. If legacy media poof went away, I don't 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.600 think you could do what you're doing. 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.000 I don't know. I mean I think that I think 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.879 that a lot of the things that we find are 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:15.280 on social media. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.240 It's what right our hearings on Capitol Hill. I was 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:18.960 thinking about that. 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:24.080 No, so I would say there's maybe five to seven 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.399 percent of what we do is maybe commenting on an 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.520 interview that's on a cable news legacy news network. But 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:35.000 I don't think that drives the network even a small fraction. 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.800 I mean, the majority of it is people are out 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:42.480 there saying things either on social media on their own tiktoks, 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:47.159 on their own instagrams, on their own x accounts, or whatever, or. 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.520 People are saying things on Capitol Hill like Marjorie Taylor 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.280 Green claiming that guy was flipping the bird. Did you 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:56.080 you guys, I'm sure did a story. 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.360 Yeah, oh yeah, we did that. The deceptive photo where 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.119 Represent Stansbury ended up showing the actual photo and then 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:05.280 who was holding it up It. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:11.520 Was Marjorie Taylor Green had the big poster board of 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.800 the head of USA Fencing. Why they brought a USA 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.520 Fencing even though they received no federal funding is because 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.399 there was a Fox story saying that there was a 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.919 trendgender fencer. So the whole conspiracy is is that they 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.280 wanted to punch down on a marginalized community using the 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.160 fencing guy. So they showed a photo of the head 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.800 of USA Fencing in a doge committee and he had 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.000 a peace sign or he had two fingers up, and 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.840 they edited out to look like he was giving the 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.280 camera the middle finger, and they said, look, he's giving 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.320 you all the middle finger. And then Congresswoman Stansbury said, no, 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.399 let me show you what the photo is. You know, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.920 it's a it's actually a peace sign. 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:55.320 That was so crazy, remember, and Marjorie Taylor Green just hitting. 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:56.160 In the cavel. See. 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.320 But that's the kind of thing like to me, I 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:00.720 don't care what your politics are, like, that's not okay, 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.240 you know, and we should all be able to acknowledge 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:04.760 that that's not okay at the end of the day, 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.200 to do that kind of deception and to try to 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.639 punch down at people like that. And so I think 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:11.359 that's at the heart of, you know, a lot of 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:13.840 what we're trying to get across here. But you know, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:15.800 I think one of the other great examples too, And 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.159 you know, I think legacy media certainly plays, you know, 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:20.000 a tremendous role. And I think there's some you know, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.639 excellent reporters out there who do a really, you know, 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:24.920 terrific job, and I you know, I commend their work, 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.240 you know, especially the reporters who are out there in 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:29.920 these war zones and reporting on these international stories. You know, 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.440 I have so much respect for the stuff they do. 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.159 But I will say also, you know, the a lot 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:37.479 of the bread and butter of what we've done, especially 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.560 throughout the past few years also is looking to like 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.800 the first hand documentation ourselves. And so I think one 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:44.760 of the great examples and of one of the reasons 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:46.600 I think Ben is so good at what he does 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:49.479 is with his you know, background as an attorney. One 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:51.280 of the things that we do is we'll go through 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.800 court filings, for example, and so during all the various 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.040 court cases over the past few years, and even everything 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.000 that's happening in the courts right now, because you know, 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.600 there's a whole lot of legal stuff happening right now 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:06.040 in the various score Oh yeah, we started a whole 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:08.960 new well channel, the Legal af Channel, because we had 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.280 so many legal stories, right and so so we have 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.080 a whole channel now specifically dedicated to the legal But 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:16.920 on those the attorneys are going through these source documents, 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:19.840 the court filings. You know this judge said this, Their 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.800 argument is this, they're analyzing it. And so I think 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:24.199 that is at the heart of it. And I think 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.200 one of the things our format allows us to do 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.000 that may not be as conducive to a twenty four 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.760 hour news format or a kind of a TV news 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:34.639 format is we could go there and we could sit 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:36.159 there and we could say, pull up the filing, and 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.680 we could read an eight page filing and our audience 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.080 likes that. It probably doesn't make good TV, yeah, but 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:44.360 our audience likes us going through. Okay, now, let's look 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:46.879 at the footnote on page three, and let's go to 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:50.720 the paragraph on page and they likely turn the channel 0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:53.359 at that point. But our audience, you know, likes that 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:55.680 because they like seeing what's actually being said. And I 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:58.520 think sometimes it's the most revealing rather than you know, 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.479 you hearing what I have to say about this topic. 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:03.760 Let me tell you what the judge actually said here, 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:06.280 let me tell you what there, what the Trump Administration's 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:09.159 argument actually is here, and then you be the judge 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:21.919 of what the truth is. Hi. 0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:24.800 Everyone, it's Katie Curic. You know I'm always on the 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:29.159 go between running my media company, hosting my podcast, and 0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:32.040 of course covering the news. And I know that to 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.840 keep doing what I love, I need to start caring 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.480 for what gets me there, my feet. That's why I 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:43.000 decided to try the Good Feet stores personalized arch support system. 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:46.359 I met with a Good Feet arch support specialist and 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.480 after a personalized fitting, I left the store with my 0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:53.880 three step system designed to improve comfort, balance, and support 0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:58.400 my feet. Knees and back are thanking me already. Visit 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:02.200 goodfeet dot com to learn find the nearest store, or 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:15.000 book your own free personalized fitting. So fair enough, you 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.879 guys do a ton of original reporting, and not just 0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:21.720 on clips that you see on cable news. In fact, 0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:23.560 I thought it was funny. I know that you hired 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:27.040 this guy and he is sort of like, how can 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:29.920 I explain him? He's sort of like the tru yes, 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.800 the truffle sniffy dog who can figure out, like what 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:35.720 is going to be the big story and kind of 0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:38.480 does clip. And I read one of you said something 0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:42.760 like he's so undervalued as the best cable news producer's 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.600 business because in a way, you all are setting the 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:50.000 agenda for at least more progressive cable news networks, and 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.920 I would imagine even more conservative ones that are often 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:57.359 reacting to more progressive ones. Right. 0:25:57.520 --> 0:25:59.160 Well, one of the things that we notice, and it's 0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:02.119 a funny thing to see is that you know Ason, 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:04.160 who's one of the most brilliant people on the planet. 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:05.200 I might have to hire. 0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:08.639 He truly is a savant when you see what he 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:11.560 does with like the eight screens and he sits there 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:14.920 for like eighteen hours a day like it's real. 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:16.800 And let me just say, he's ours. You can't have it. 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:20.600 But he goes, he goes through, you know, the clips 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.040 all day long, and you know he's got an eye 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:25.840 for it, and I think it's something you do need 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:28.640 an eye for, right, what out of all the things 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:32.000 that are said during these congressional hearings, for example, or 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:33.800 on the floor of the house, whatever it is on 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:37.199 cable news, there's a lot of stuff that isn't newsworthy, 0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:41.200 that isn't exciting, but for you to be able to capture, contextualize, 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:43.800 and ninety nine percent of the time he's literally just 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:45.920 putting the captions of what people are saying when he 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:48.280 puts out these clips. But to pick those moments that 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:50.480 are the moments that you know, he knows will be 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:52.800 important for people to see. I think that's a real 0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:55.199 skill and a real talent. And one of the interesting 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:56.920 things that we see is he'll do that throughout the 0:26:57.040 --> 0:27:01.360 day and then coincidentally, you know on the Shepherd. 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:04.800 Talking about yeah, you go another lawyer. 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:08.760 Right, whether it's MSNBC or Fox, you know, they're playing 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:11.600 those same clips. They have a different perspective on the clips. 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.359 But but they're playing those same clips that Asen pulled 0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:16.919 earlier in the day. I don't think that's any accident. 0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:19.639 I think, you know, that's just how people are consuming media, 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:22.399 right and it's not just us, but it's a cable 0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:25.439 news producers as well are seeing what happens in Congress. 0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:28.600 Not because you know, these hosts are sitting there watching 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:31.040 hear you know, the hearings all day, but because they 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:34.600 see what people are speaking about online, and oftentimes that originates. 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:34.800 With our team. 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.399 So interesting you talk about your values. You know, you 0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:40.800 describe the trans community as a marginalized community. I couldn't 0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:44.160 agree with you more. I think our values are probably aligned. 0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:49.080 But clearly you guys are left of center. Is that fair? 0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:52.680 Yeah, you know, it's funny. I just I think that's 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:55.639 certainly fair, you know, in the kind of traditional political space. 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:57.760 I mean, if you're thinking about issues that you all 0:27:57.840 --> 0:28:01.560 care about, believe in, maybe describe some of those issues 0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:02.720 like and we all. 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:04.280 Grew up you know, not that we grew up, you know, 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.280 we didn't growup political, but we're all you know, Democrats, 0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:09.119 and we all have you know, had, you know, beliefs 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:11.000 that go in that, but we don't we really don't 0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:14.920 view everything like through necessarily a political end. Like in 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:18.920 that way, we don't necessarily view ourselves as like like 0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:20.800 I don't care what the Democratic Party does, you know, 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:22.959 I don't care about their internal squabbling. I don't care, 0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:25.320 you know. Like, to me, we're just doing our thing, 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:28.320 and if we have our values and if people want 0:28:28.359 --> 0:28:30.479 to meet us at our values, that's kind of all 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:31.240 we care about. 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:32.399 So are your values? 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:36.120 Look, I think people should get for a hard day's 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:38.920 work or just working. They should get paid with dignity. 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:41.720 I think Americans should be able to be able to 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:45.400 afford homes. I don't believe Americans should be living paycheck 0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:47.920 to paycheck if they're working. I think that's a form 0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:51.560 of psychological torture. I believe that Americans should all have 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.040 access to healthcare. It should be very affordable or free 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.160 for Americans. I believe Americans should have access to education, 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.360 which should be affordable or free to Americans. 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:03.160 I believe in equality. 0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:06.880 I don't believe that marginalized community should have to wake 0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:09.160 up and be scared how they're going to be treated 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:11.960 in a given day. I don't believe that people should 0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:16.280 be bullying marginalized communities. I believe diversity and equality is 0:29:16.400 --> 0:29:18.800 a strength, and equity is a strength, and I don't 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:22.000 think that the lesson from this past election should be 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:25.680 running away from that. It should be standing up for 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.120 it and being strong and standing up for it and 0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:32.240 showing actual convictions. I think a lot of marginalized communities 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:35.160 see fair weather supporters who are with them when it 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.760 seems cool and then abandon them when the seasons change, 0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:41.240 and I think they see that a lot in how 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:45.240 the media portrays them, how corporations portray them. Oh, everyone's 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:48.040 with DEI now, and everyone's not with DEI now. 0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:48.960 I think that's bullshit. 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:51.040 I think you've got to stand with people and be 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:54.880 who you are, and that's ultimately is the right thing 0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:58.520 to do. But I think that's also what ultimately will 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:02.600 win elections too, because if your really care, if you're 0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:06.240 really fighting for people, they'll recognize that. And I think 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:08.240 when they see that you're waivering, they don't even know 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:10.200 if you're a real ally or not an ally. 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:14.280 And I imagine working with and representing Colin Kaepernick was 0:30:14.760 --> 0:30:19.320 very transformative. Maybe not transformative, maybe that's not the right word. 0:30:19.480 --> 0:30:20.280 For sure, it was. 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:23.400 It was in terms of how you view things like 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:27.480 Black Lives Matter and some of the things that Colin did, 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:31.680 and as we were talking about racial equality and DEI 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:37.320 issues and gosh, we've seen so much of that progress reversed. 0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:39.720 How do you feel about reproductive rights? 0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:43.240 Well, it's the first Colin Oh yeah, yeah. On the 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:47.240 Colin side, nobody wanted to work with us at first. 0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:50.479 When I started representing Colin. Remember that Colin was one 0:30:50.520 --> 0:30:53.960 of the first people, if not the first person Trump targeted. 0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:57.720 Get that sob off the field. Colin lost his job. 0:30:57.880 --> 0:30:59.680 No one would do deals with us, no one did 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:01.840 business with us, and Colin and I were working together. 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:04.760 Then then all of a sudden, everybody wanted to work 0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:10.000 with us because Colin fought people perceived what everything was. 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.880 As Colin won, he stood up, everybody was with us. 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:17.400 And then people leave and then they're no longer. Oh 0:31:17.480 --> 0:31:21.880 we can't do you know, all these corporations, all these groups, everybody. 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.160 Who wanted to invest in and get scared right, and 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:26.240 they they. 0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:29.480 Were all talking about diversity Initiative, Chief, diversity off, you know, 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:32.400 all those things. Then they get rid of them. So 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:34.560 if you look at that, you think. 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:37.280 Who has my back? 0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:42.000 And I think you need to as a leader, setting aside, 0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:44.040 are you center left, are you left left or you 0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:47.720 left left left? You just as a leader have to 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.560 say I have your back, and I've always had your back. 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:53.720 I'm the person who was marching with you in Bakersfield 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:56.800 on the streets, whether you were a Democrat or Republican, 0:31:56.840 --> 0:31:58.880 if you lost a loved one, I was with you, 0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:02.560 and I was fighting for you. And I'm the civil 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:04.680 rights lawyer who was fighting for you. I was the 0:32:04.760 --> 0:32:07.880 person there. We we have your back, and I think 0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:12.240 that authenticity is what's most important beyond you know, how 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.000 do you describe yourself as it relates to reproductive rights. 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:18.840 We feel strongly that reproductive rights it's a woman's decision. 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:21.520 We as men get the hell out of it. It's 0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:25.400 it's it's not for me to even think for a 0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:31.600 moment that I should be in any way controlling, lecturing, talking, 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.880 having anything at all to intrude in the conversation you 0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:40.440 know here, you know, And so for us women's reproductive rights, 0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:43.440 that is sacro saying to the women men stay the 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:43.800 hell out. 0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:48.040 So you, I think, are anesthetical to the current sort 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:51.720 of right wing media ecosystem. And I want to read 0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:54.680 a quote from this guy named Michael Tamaski, who is 0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:57.640 the editor of The New Republic. I interviewed him a 0:32:57.680 --> 0:33:02.040 few days after the election and I asked him about 0:33:03.080 --> 0:33:06.880 his essay about why Trump won and when exploring why 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:10.680 he did, Tamaski wrote, the answer is the right wing 0:33:10.840 --> 0:33:13.680 media today. The right wing media Fox News and the 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:17.840 entire News Corp, Newsmax one American news network, the Sinclair 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:22.040 Network of radio and TV stations, and newspapers. iHeartMedia, not 0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:26.160 all of iHeartMedia, normally Lyricy and the Bot Radio Network, 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:30.080 Christian Radio, Elon, musk X, the Huge podcast like Joe 0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:33.640 Rogan's much More sets the news agenda in this country. 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:37.120 He repeated that in the next paragraph sets the news 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:40.280 agenda in this country, and they fed their audience as 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:44.360 a diet of slanted and distorted information that made it 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:48.160 possible for Trump to win. Before I ask you about 0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:51.840 how this informed your decision to move forward with the 0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:54.840 Midas Network, I'd love to hear your take on why 0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:58.000 you think, and maybe Jordi, as a marketing person, you 0:33:58.120 --> 0:34:01.560 have something interesting to say about this. Why has right 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:06.240 wing media been so incredibly effective? 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.680 Yep? I think when you go down that list, the 0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:11.600 Fox News is the Rogans, and you keep going down 0:34:11.640 --> 0:34:12.239 and down to. 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.160 The so called manosphere and all those things. 0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:18.160 Right, there's one thing that that's really standing out to 0:34:18.239 --> 0:34:19.879 me every time you go down through one of those 0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:23.560 lists is who they're funded by. Billion like these billionaire 0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:27.680 billionaire Elon Musk billionaire, Fox News, Murdoch billionaire. You go 0:34:27.760 --> 0:34:30.560 into the Rogan sphere. I don't know his whatnot, but 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:35.200 but it's it's heavy funding, heavy funding and influence that 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:38.680 then just trickles down into that quote unquote manosphere. And 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:42.000 so once you get hit with you know, the Fox 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:45.440 News clips, it's an ecosystem that all feeds into itself 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:47.960 and then the algorithm takes it on your social network, 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:52.040 so you really can't escape it. Like it's it's consuming 0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:54.920 in such a way that it's almost unavoidable. 0:34:55.640 --> 0:35:00.799 People are suffering. People feel pained right now, and people 0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:06.400 want answers about why they feel pain. They can't afford 0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:10.720 a home, and they're seeing rich people with ten jets 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:15.759 and mansions and they can't afford a home. They don't 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:18.279 know if they're going to be able to We have 0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:22.439 to listen to people and what they're saying democrats, People 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.600 listen to what people are actually saying to you. People 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:30.680 are suffering out there, and I think that they're getting 0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:35.400 easy answers from right wing media about where they're suffering 0:35:35.560 --> 0:35:38.480 is coming from. They're being told the immigrants are doing 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:40.640 it to you. They're eating your cats and your dogs, 0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:42.719 and that sounds stupid to a lot of people. The 0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:46.759 people want an easy answer about why they're feeling pain. 0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:50.879 And when you can blame a marginalized community as they're 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:54.360 doing it, they're doing it. And then somebody comes in 0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:55.760 and says, I'm going. 0:35:55.680 --> 0:35:56.719 To make you rich. 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:00.480 I'm going to make you the richest person ever, just 0:36:00.680 --> 0:36:02.960 like me. You're going to be so rich you're not 0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:04.719 even going to know what to do with how rich 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:10.360 you are. That message resonates with people who are suffering. 0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:15.600 It's built on fraud, but you combine the lies with 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:20.120 a right wing media network giving you a simple answer, 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:25.279 and that connects with people. Now, how do you combat it. 0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.960 You have to combat it by pointing out that that's 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:32.040 a lie and that's a fraud. But you also have 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:36.480 to provide solutions, and you have to speak to people's 0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:41.439 real human condition. You have to look somebody in the eye, 0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:44.239 and you have to say to them, I hear you, 0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:48.640 I listen to you, I understand what you're going through. 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:52.839 And that's what we could talk about the podcast Bros. 0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:57.840 The media ecosystem, but ultimately whether this massive funding machine 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:02.600 they're pumping easy and by scapegoating the other and making 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:05.480 people understand, oh, that's why I'm going through this, and 0:37:05.560 --> 0:37:07.640 that's not why they're going through this. They're going through 0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:11.200 this because people like Trump and other people are the 0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:15.279 ones doing it to them, inflicting that's what's causing it. 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:19.880 And they've managed to the people who are causing it, 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:22.439 has managed to convince the people they're inflicting the pain 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:25.239 on that they're helping them and they're not. And so 0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:30.040 the antidote to that is also simple messages. 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:33.160 All saying messaging is so important. It hasn't it been, 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.200 because it seems to me there is sort of an 0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:41.640 orchestrated effort to keep it simple but also to have 0:37:41.880 --> 0:37:47.560 it kind of almost echoing throughout the whole ecosystem right 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:51.000 in a way that is just much more effective. 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:51.320 You know. 0:37:51.440 --> 0:37:54.920 I think also people think that people are paying attention 0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:58.680 to every little thing and they're just hearing sort of 0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.799 this orchestrated effort. I'm not really making sense right now, 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:06.759 but I think like a lot most people aren't like us, 0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:10.759 like reading everything, or like your guy who's watching. 0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:13.960 The By the way, it is coordinated. And you know 0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:17.640 those people you mentioned, they do work together, you know. 0:38:17.920 --> 0:38:21.239 I'm sure and I've seen certain the evidence of it. 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:23.200 There's been stories about it as well that there are 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:26.440 signal chats and I message chats and various things. 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:28.200 This is what we're going to be, is what we're 0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:30.120 going to talk about. The Rocket Ales used to do 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:33.400 that every morning off Fox News and they all distribute 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:36.880 a memo with talking points that every anchor had to 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:37.400 adhere to. 0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:39.759 One of the things that we noticed early on, and 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:41.840 I feel like we were written off for it a 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:45.760 lot is that those conversations were starting on the Internet 0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:49.799 and they would then permeate to legacy media. They would 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:52.879 then get to people's Facebook feeds. They would then get 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:55.400 into the conversations that people are having with one another. 0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:57.759 But you wonder, where does this cats and dogs room, 0:38:57.840 --> 0:38:59.719 or where does that even begin from? And you could 0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:02.359 trace stuff like that back to an Internet post, back 0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:05.440 to a tweet that went viral that people spoke about 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:08.960 and so oftentimes, because everything is so fragmented right now, 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:12.279 you don't actually know where that information even started from, 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:15.200 what was the kind of match that ignited it. But 0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:19.120 oftentimes these conversations are beginning in these spaces and then 0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:22.840 they kind of become more mainstream and in many cases 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:25.120 now make their way to the President of the United States, 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:27.879 who lives in these spaces as well. But I think, 0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:30.960 you know, I think it's a bit nefarious kind of 0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:34.200 how it operates in a way, and I think folks 0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:36.799 have learned, in my opinion, a lot of the wrong 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:44.400 lessons from the election. And by nefarious, I mean I 0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:47.279 think people think like these people were created in a lab, 0:39:47.480 --> 0:39:50.279 that you know, the MANI Sphere podcast, that these people 0:39:50.320 --> 0:39:55.120 were created in a lab designed to spread propaganda and 0:39:55.360 --> 0:39:58.640 spread certain lives. But to me, that's not what it is. 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:01.399 I think these a lot of these shows did begin 0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:05.160 organically and they had audiences, and they connected with people 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:08.279 through typical you know, life things, or whether it's you know, 0:40:08.400 --> 0:40:14.759 ultimate fighting or or weightlifting or you know, discussing a 0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:17.800 pop culture trial or you know whatever. It may be 0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:21.000 something that doesn't necessarily seem political, but once they have 0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:25.560 you in they could then use that space to send 0:40:25.680 --> 0:40:28.160 people down these other rabbit holes that I think could 0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:31.920 be you know, kind of a bit more dangerous, I 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:32.960 think in that way. 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:36.840 So it's like a lifestyle podcast that sort of morphs 0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:38.239 into people in it. 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.120 Then they say, Okay, now that I got you, have 0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:43.759 you considered that the vaccine might be hurt in you? 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:45.960 You know, like once they get hurt of yeah, have 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:47.960 you heard of the and and then all of a 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:49.800 sudden you start getting put down this path, you know. 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:52.600 I read an interesting article a few years ago at 0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:54.040 this point, I think it was in the New York Times, 0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:56.560 and it was about how the Epoch Times the Epic 0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:58.839 Times is uh, they were. 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:01.400 I was shinned up that once, and I tried to 0:41:01.760 --> 0:41:04.759 because I always like to hear what everybody's saying and 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:08.480 how stories are being framed. Isn't it called epochs epocket 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:12.480 the yacht But anyway, it's like it's like from China 0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:12.839 or something. 0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:15.600 Someone will correct me in the comments, and I was like, 0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:16.440 oh my. 0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:20.239 God, these people are insane. Stop stop stop, And they 0:41:20.360 --> 0:41:22.640 kept sending me stuff. Finally they and so. 0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.840 In this New York Times space, they analyzed how they 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:29.120 pulled people in with viral videos of cats and dogs, 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:33.120 and they would promote on Facebook videos of cute cat 0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:35.520 videos and cute dog videos, and so they would get 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:38.680 people to engage with their content because they thought that 0:41:38.800 --> 0:41:40.920 they were engaging. Oh, look at this cute cat who's 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:43.440 on a skateboard or you know whatever it is. Next 0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:46.439 thing they know they're being pushed. You know, Fauci needs 0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:48.720 to go to prison and on all this crazy stuff. 0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:51.160 And it all started because they watched this video of 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.000 a dog on a rumba or something, you know. And 0:41:54.400 --> 0:41:56.480 so that's what I mean by nefarius, that people could 0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:59.960 get pulled in with things that seem benign or see 0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:02.680 like they're you know, things that relate to their interests. 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:06.040 Next thing they know, they're taking down this algorithmic hell 0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:10.000 hole and that they really can't escape from once they're in. 0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:12.480 And so I think that's one of the kind of 0:42:12.600 --> 0:42:15.759 dangerous spaces that we're in right now. Also, is you know, 0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:18.000 social media is going to continue to push the at 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:20.200 you that you engage with and that it thinks you 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:22.680 want to see. And once you do a few clicks, 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:26.759 sometimes people get lost in these algorithms and it just 0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:29.360 takes it consumes their life and they just kind of 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:32.400 lose a grip on, you know, a little bit of 0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:37.480 normalcy and kind of even respect for other people humanity. 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:39.800 And I think that's kind of one of the dangerous. 0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:44.120 Elspace programs, you to have this visceral reaction to anything 0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:48.239 that is different than your point of view. Yeah, right. 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:52.080 And I know that you all say the talking point 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:55.080 or the conventional wisdom is like the left needs a 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:57.640 Joe Rogan, they need their Joe Rogan. And I know 0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:01.040 you have all said that that's the wrong way to 0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:06.120 look at it. But clearly, to deal with this ecosystem 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:10.280 that is so powerful, different points of view or even 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:16.279 truth right needs to have a more potent platform. So 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:25.040 how do you think different views or truth and everything 0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:30.200 that's going on with the Trump administration gets out there 0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:32.440 and explain to people? And do you worry that you're 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:34.360 kind of preaching to the choir? I know it just 0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:37.200 asks like twelve questions in one, but how do you 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:38.080 do that well? 0:43:38.200 --> 0:43:41.080 On the preaching to the choir? I always ask this 0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:45.160 question when people, and I ask about Fox and I said, 0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:48.359 do you think that Fox News is preaching to the choir? 0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.160 I say, raise your hand, if you think Fox News 0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:54.080 preaches to the choir, and usually in my group, everybody 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:56.560 raises their hand and says, of course, they're preaching to 0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:58.800 a right wing choir. I go, do you think Fox 0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:03.760 is one of the more powerful forces in politics in general? Okay, 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:06.239 so they're preaching to the choir. You don't view that 0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:09.640 as a negative, right right? Okay, Well, what if your 0:44:09.760 --> 0:44:13.440 choir just needs to sing louder than the other choir? 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:15.640 What if you just need a choir to begin with. 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:18.759 What if your choir doesn't believe you're a good conductor, 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:22.320 you should first be a good conductor of your own choir. 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:24.800 This is going back to what I said before, and 0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:28.440 ensure that your choir knows that you're actually their conductor 0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:32.560 and that you're fighting for your choir. So I think 0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:34.759 that whether you want to say it is the Democrats 0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:38.759 or whoever, I think that one of the problems has 0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:43.200 been that the choir needed to be preached to a 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:45.520 little bit from an authentic position and saying we're here 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:48.440 with you, we're fighting for you, and then you can 0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:52.200 start to build and grow because I think other people 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:55.759 start to see, wait a minute, that makes sense. 0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:57.680 Your choir needed a church to go to. 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:03.120 Yeah, you know, and to me when you're building, do 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:07.319 you want to model that on a choir built upon 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:11.560 values that you don't think are helpful? And this goes 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:13.399 to your Rogan question. I'm going to tie it all together, 0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:15.520 you know, but you know, but do you want to 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:18.239 then say we should be like that? Well, you're going 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:20.479 to start losing people in your choir if you're saying 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:23.640 I want to start acting that way, because then they're 0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:26.839 going to go, WHOA, what do you mean? I don't 0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:30.840 like the way they're treating, marginalizing. I don't like the 0:45:30.880 --> 0:45:33.399 way they're bullying. I don't like the way that they're 0:45:33.480 --> 0:45:34.719 making a mockery of women. 0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:35.320 I don't like that. 0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:37.839 So why do you want to be like that? Huh? 0:45:38.520 --> 0:45:38.560 No? 0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:41.520 I think that they just want to see you say 0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:43.480 this is what I believe in. I give you an example. 0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:46.040 Andy Basheer, governor of Kentucky, got. 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:50.440 Reviewed him on Friday. Oh my god, he is I mean, 0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:53.440 talk about wholesome at all Americas. It's like out of 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:56.200 central casts like Andy Basheer. 0:45:55.960 --> 0:46:01.359 Rush Chairman, Democratic governor. 0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:04.280 Sixty eight percent approvement right in sixty in Kentucky. 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.879 He doesn't say I'm not for LGBTQ, right, he says 0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:12.560 the opposite. He vetoes any bill that comes his way 0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:16.040 that's anti LGBTQ, and he's then he does a press 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:18.680 conference and he'll say, this is why I'm vetoing it. 0:46:18.920 --> 0:46:21.920 We need to treat all human beings with respect. And 0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:26.120 they respect him in Kentucky for doing that. So to me, 0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:29.200 if he can do that in Kentucky, we should be 0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:32.120 able to do that everywhere else. And to me, that's 0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:34.720 a great example. I was so impressed in the interview 0:46:34.760 --> 0:46:36.880 I did with him where he conveyed, you know, that 0:46:37.000 --> 0:46:40.400 message to me. So there's that, and then there's what 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:43.000 Senator Bernie Sanders said to me, which is that the 0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:48.200 most important issues are sometimes the least discussed. And that's true. 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.040 You know, people aren't talking about the issues that actually 0:46:51.520 --> 0:46:54.360 impact us the most, whether that's housing, whether that's healthcare, 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:58.800 whether it's education, whether it's you know, living paycheck to paycheck, 0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:01.279 and all of these issues are not being discussed, So 0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:04.360 we should discuss them. So to me, in terms of 0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:08.880 building what our version of what's going on on the 0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:11.480 other side should be, I think it's obvious we should 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:14.640 make sure our choir sings louder, and we should be 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:18.840 focusing on the issues and actually occupy a lot of 0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:23.080 the mental space in Americans' minds, but are filled with conspiracies, 0:47:23.480 --> 0:47:25.560 and we should fill it with the truth and solutions. 0:47:25.800 --> 0:47:29.560 And what is the reaction among say, people who are 0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:33.520 more conservative, you know, because everyone's all over the place 0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:37.640 and you see like working class folks who supported Donald Trump. 0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:40.480 But if you're tackling the issues they care about, do 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:43.920 you find that they are gravitating towards your platform? 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:46.000 Yeah? I mean, look or not. 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:51.480 I think I'll say this, whether they're gravitating or not gravitating. 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:57.040 I'm confident that the views and values I stand behind them. 0:47:57.160 --> 0:47:59.320 I stand on business and I stand behind them. And 0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:03.279 I'm confident that that's the approach that will. You know, 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:08.840 I'm not trying to chase people and beg them to 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:12.600 be good people. I simply want to let them know 0:48:13.040 --> 0:48:16.960 that here's a place where we feel very strongly about 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:21.080 these things. There's a massive community now with millions of 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:23.960 people who watch this. Join it if you want to 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.200 join it, don't join it if you don't want to 0:48:26.320 --> 0:48:29.279 join it. But we are, we are here, and we're 0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:30.800 standing the struggle what we believe. 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:31.520 And so I don't. 0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:35.320 I don't it may sound I don't occupy myself so 0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:38.359 much thinking about you know, I'm really hoping that I've 0:48:38.520 --> 0:48:42.640 just changed, you know, mister Maga's mind and made him 0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:45.920 into a mister Midas like I. If they want to 0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:50.279 live in their rage algorithm, they want if they want 0:48:50.320 --> 0:48:52.839 to live in there, Remitas mighty the best. Yeah, if 0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:54.839 they want to live in their rage algorithm, then that's 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:57.200 where they could live, you know, but they should know 0:48:57.280 --> 0:48:59.919 that there's other places where we're going to talk about 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:03.680 the issues in an impactful, logical smart way, and then 0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.719 we're going to layer that with some positivity to day. 0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:10.680 Do you feel that this whole kind of opposite views 0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:14.680 of you know, the Foxes of the world are in 0:49:14.880 --> 0:49:19.040 aggregate gaining traction. You have, for example, pot Save America, 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:22.760 have Currenter Newsroom. You have a lot of these digital 0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:27.040 companies networks. Honestly, I know you call yourself a network, 0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:31.799 but their networks too kind of rising up and creating 0:49:32.080 --> 0:49:38.000 a force field that is, you know, bumping up against 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:41.200 this other huge ecosystem. 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:43.640 I just give you the data quickly, you know, from 0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:47.480 our network three hundred and fifty million or so YouTube 0:49:47.560 --> 0:49:48.680 views every single month. 0:49:48.800 --> 0:49:49.760 I'm very jealous. 0:49:49.800 --> 0:49:52.040 So that's more more. 0:49:52.120 --> 0:49:53.840 We're all like, what's going on? 0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:57.000 Yeah, but that's more on a day to day basis 0:49:57.120 --> 0:49:59.799 on digital and I think we all agree things are 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:04.919 moving digital. So the cable news wants to go more digital. 0:50:04.760 --> 0:50:07.560 Right So there and there in our forever, I was like, 0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:09.120 what is wrong with you people? 0:50:09.239 --> 0:50:12.239 But anyway go so on that platform, the Mightas Touched 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:14.560 Network on a day to day basis, and some days 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:17.040 Fox beats us, but on a day to day basis, 0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:20.319 we'll get more views than Fox on YouTube and then 0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:23.600 seeing an MSNBC and all the rest, Mightas Touch Network 0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:26.960 will beat those. We're the fastest growing substack right now 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:28.759 of all substacks. 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:31.080 Out there, substack after Memorial Day. 0:50:31.000 --> 0:50:34.480 So we should do that would be fun and we love. 0:50:34.360 --> 0:50:36.080 Subjects that we're all such good. 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:41.560 For exactly exactly and then you know, across and then 0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:45.680 on the podcast downloads themselves. Uh, Jordy showed me the 0:50:45.800 --> 0:50:48.839 data today. So in the last month, the Mightas Touch 0:50:48.960 --> 0:50:53.840 Network beat Rogan Tucker, Carlson, Candae Owens, Charlie Kirk, and 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:57.880 Ben Shapiro all combined for the month of for the 0:50:57.960 --> 0:51:02.040 last month, they do so in terms of in terms 0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:05.279 of growth. You know, I think that that, you know, 0:51:05.400 --> 0:51:09.839 that shows that there is an appetite for this out there, 0:51:10.320 --> 0:51:13.600 and I think that, you know, we got to preach 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:16.439 to that choir, you know, and expand it. But let's 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:18.680 start also with fortifying the choir and let them know 0:51:18.760 --> 0:51:19.919 we care about them. Yeah. 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:29.879 Hi, everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know, if you've 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:32.600 been following me on social media, you know I love 0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:35.800 to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of 0:51:35.880 --> 0:51:39.600 my favorite chefs and foodies like Benny Blanco, Jake Cohen, 0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:44.080 Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman, and Ininagarten. So I started a 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:47.680 free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips and 0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:51.960 kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecuric dot com slash 0:51:52.160 --> 0:51:55.080 good Taste. That's k A T I E C O 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.880 U R I C dot com slash good Taste. I 0:51:59.080 --> 0:52:11.359 promise your taste buds will be happy you did. I'm 0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:15.279 curious because I've struggled with this as someone who you 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:18.440 grew up watching, I'm sure, and it started in very 0:52:18.560 --> 0:52:24.000 traditional mainstream media now pointing out the facts and what 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:29.400 is really happening is automatically interpreted as being biased, right, 0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:34.600 And of course I think there's no such thing as 0:52:34.680 --> 0:52:38.640 true objectivity. But having said that, you know, I really 0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:42.400 struggle with that, and many people say, listen, the rules 0:52:42.480 --> 0:52:46.600 have changed. It's okay to say you support trans people. 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:50.240 It's okay that you say I am one hundred percent 0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:54.160 for reproductive rights. You know, all these things that honestly, 0:52:54.280 --> 0:52:58.440 as personally I hold dear, but professionally I've been trained 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:01.279 to not share that. I'm curious if you think sort 0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:07.960 of old fashioned, semi objective, knowing that pure objectivity is impossible, 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:12.440 that kind of journalism still has a place in the culture, 0:53:12.680 --> 0:53:15.560 or is it simply you know, the seventy five and 0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:19.040 up people who are watching the network evening newscasts. 0:53:19.920 --> 0:53:22.160 Yeah, I mean, I certainly think it's still as a place. 0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:24.400 But at the same time, I think everything is so 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:27.920 fragmented now that I think such a large portion of 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:32.000 the audience are going to places that share a point 0:53:32.040 --> 0:53:35.520 of view. And I think, you know, I think if 0:53:35.600 --> 0:53:37.960 we just did a report that is this happened, then 0:53:37.960 --> 0:53:40.960 this happened, then this happened, then this happened. I mean, 0:53:41.080 --> 0:53:44.120 there's there's plenty of places where people you know, could find. 0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:47.360 Not you know, really I mean fewer and fewer, right, right, Yeah, But. 0:53:47.680 --> 0:53:49.719 I think I think the key thing that we do 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:52.360 is connect the dots on all those things. And I 0:53:52.440 --> 0:53:54.640 think when you're able to weave it into a story 0:53:54.800 --> 0:53:56.879 and actually connect the dots, I think that's what people 0:53:57.040 --> 0:54:01.440 want to be able to gain clarity on because I think, 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:03.520 as as we've kind of been saying, there's so much 0:54:03.640 --> 0:54:05.960 information out there that in order to be able to 0:54:06.280 --> 0:54:09.160 digest it and has to be presented, you know, I 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:12.840 think in many ways, you know, in certain ways just 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:16.680 to make it clear from even just a storytelling perspective, 0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:19.840 so people get how how does a tariff affect you know, 0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:23.000 their you know, their business or the price they're going 0:54:23.080 --> 0:54:24.960 to pay for goods, you know, and how does this 0:54:25.040 --> 0:54:27.400 affect their medication and their family? Like I think, you 0:54:27.520 --> 0:54:28.839 just I think you need to be able to tie 0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:31.040 it all together in a way, and whether people think 0:54:31.080 --> 0:54:33.800 it's biased or not when you're speaking on those issues, 0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:35.640 to me, I think you just need to put that 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:37.879 aside because now we live in a time when people 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:40.080 are going to comment on on everything, right, Like I said, 0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:42.480 and people are going to comment I mispronounced something. We'll 0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:44.560 get a comment, right, it's it's there's going to be 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:47.480 a comment about everything. You have to almost bake that 0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:50.960 into what you're doing, in my opinion, and just be you, 0:54:50.960 --> 0:54:54.000 you know, and and and and let the chips fall 0:54:54.000 --> 0:54:55.840 where they may. I think the biggest thing that you 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.280 need to do, though, is be authentic, you know, to yourself. 0:54:58.360 --> 0:55:01.240 And I think people could smell bullshit from a mile away. 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:04.239 And that's why I think when after the twenty twenty 0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:06.320 four election, when there were so many I feel like 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:10.960 I saw so many democratic politicians and people in media 0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:14.000 and podcasts and you name it, to all the sudden, 0:55:14.400 --> 0:55:16.920 everything I thought they believed in and the communities that 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:18.799 I thought they supported, all of a sudden they seem 0:55:18.840 --> 0:55:21.359 to be backtracking on that. Maybe we focused a little 0:55:21.400 --> 0:55:23.719 too much on inclusivity, Maybe we focused a little too 0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:27.799 much on reproductive rights. And when you try to kind 0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:31.400 of shape your opinions based around public poland. 0:55:31.160 --> 0:55:33.960 Right and kind of like were the wind driving is 0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:37.680 the DEI people who when it was cool, it was great, 0:55:37.800 --> 0:55:39.680 and now they're like, what what does that stand for? 0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:43.040 Yeah? And so how do I trust you with anything, 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:46.960 and I don't. I's speaking of mister Maga, Missus Midas 0:55:47.000 --> 0:55:48.879 whatever we were talking about before. You know, I don't 0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:51.320 think you're gonna win. You know, the mister Maga is 0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:53.760 not going to vote for you because you have those beliefs. 0:55:53.760 --> 0:55:55.960 They're going to vote for the Maga guy. Okay, they're 0:55:56.000 --> 0:55:58.360 not going to come around. They may say they respect 0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:00.279 you more or something. You know, you're not get in 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:04.000 their vote, I assure you. And you're just alienating your choir, 0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:06.520 as we were speaking about before, and you're angering the 0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:10.480 people who you've built trust with because you violated that trust. 0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:13.239 So I think right now, and I think whether you're 0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:17.600 Miightas Touched or whether you're Joe Rogan or you name it, 0:56:18.160 --> 0:56:21.720 I think the most important thing is that you're authentic 0:56:21.920 --> 0:56:24.759 to your audience and that people trust the things that 0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:27.479 you are saying and know where you are coming from, 0:56:27.880 --> 0:56:30.160 and know that tomorrow, if a poll comes out that 0:56:30.280 --> 0:56:32.640 says this big thing you've been pushing may not be 0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:34.520 super popular right now, that you're not all of a 0:56:34.560 --> 0:56:37.800 sudden going to just change your beliefs, you know, based 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:41.200 on it. And I mean that's that's my thought on that. 0:56:41.320 --> 0:56:42.920 I think you know, one of the things I could 0:56:42.920 --> 0:56:44.520 say about Donald Trump. I'm not trying to say anything 0:56:44.600 --> 0:56:46.480 nice about the guy right now, but one of the 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:48.520 things I could say is I think he's pushed forward 0:56:48.560 --> 0:56:51.480 a lot with things that are incredibly unpopular, and then 0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:54.120 he's taken his people kind of on that journey with 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:56.080 him going way back. I mean, remember he was being 0:56:56.200 --> 0:57:00.439 laughed at at these debates and the White House dinner. 0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:03.440 I mean, everyone is making a mockery of him, but 0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:05.960 he pushed forward and he tried to make the case 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:07.600 to bring people to his side. 0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:10.239 He is a marketing genius, don't you think Geordie in 0:57:10.280 --> 0:57:10.760 a way. 0:57:14.640 --> 0:57:16.959 I would say he's a Ponzi schemer and a fraud. 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:19.560 Yeah, a good characters. 0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:22.600 I mean you can think dialectically he can be all 0:57:22.680 --> 0:57:23.480 those things, can't he. 0:57:24.160 --> 0:57:25.960 I mean, was Bernie made Off a good marketer? 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:29.800 Well, I think he's very I think he was very 0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:33.040 I don't think he had a public persona that was 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:36.320 charismatic and got people to buy what he was selling. 0:57:36.440 --> 0:57:38.640 I mean he did have a small group, right, but 0:57:39.320 --> 0:57:40.880 I don't know just on a well, we don't have 0:57:40.960 --> 0:57:41.360 to get. 0:57:43.560 --> 0:57:45.880 I think what Bro was saying though, too about audiences 0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:49.560 these days, and it's a marketing buzzword authenticity. I know 0:57:49.600 --> 0:57:50.800 I used to say it a lot back in my 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:54.480 marketing days, but genuinely, I think people are viewing what 0:57:54.560 --> 0:57:57.480 we're doing here at the maas Touch Network as absolutely authentic. 0:57:57.600 --> 0:57:59.440 You know, with three brothers, we don't try and be 0:57:59.480 --> 0:58:01.680 anything that we're not right. We rely on Ben for 0:58:01.880 --> 0:58:04.360 the legal, Bred for the digital, and Me for the marketing, 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:07.160 and then we bring in experts in specific spaces that 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:09.800 could speak to issues that we're not experts in. Yeah, 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:12.360 and we don't pretend that we're experts in, but we 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:15.439 have a clear value set of you know, right or wrong. 0:58:15.960 --> 0:58:18.440 And if those lean more democratic, well, I think that 0:58:18.560 --> 0:58:20.480 tells you kind of where we are as a country, 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:23.760 as a society, and we just stand behind it wholeheartedly, 0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:26.000 and I think people like that. I think that's what 0:58:26.320 --> 0:58:27.200 folks are gravitating. 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:29.160 By the way, that's not to say that your ideas 0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:31.840 cannot evolve, that you cannot change your opinions. I think 0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:34.760 certainly you can. And I don't think your beliefs that 0:58:34.880 --> 0:58:37.120 you had at age eighteen have to be the beliefs 0:58:37.160 --> 0:58:39.520 that you have at age fifty. You know, I think 0:58:39.600 --> 0:58:42.960 that evolution is a part of life. Exploring new ideas, 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:45.760 engaging with them, changing your mind is a part of life. 0:58:45.800 --> 0:58:49.600 But I think people to your point, know when you go, oh, 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:52.440 this poll came out yesterday, and all of a sudden, 0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:55.960 I maybe I shouldn't support transgender people so much. Maybe 0:58:56.000 --> 0:58:58.600 I shouldn't support you know, diversity, Maybe I shouldn't support 0:58:58.640 --> 0:59:02.040 reproductive rights. People see right through that wrap, you know, 0:59:02.240 --> 0:59:04.160 and then they go, you know, they go, this person, 0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:06.080 you're okay, So you're just a fraud. How do I 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:08.480 trust that anything else you're telling me right now? How 0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:10.080 do I know you're being honest about that? What if 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:12.720 tomorrow you know some other politician one that was the 0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:14.400 opposite of that, and then all of a sudden you're 0:59:14.880 --> 0:59:17.280 switching your beliefs on that too, Like how do you 0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:20.440 trust somebody you know who's sort of a shape shifter 0:59:20.720 --> 0:59:23.240 like that? And I think it's important to not view, 0:59:23.560 --> 0:59:26.680 you know, as you go from election to election or 0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:30.080 you know, issue to issue, whatever it is, that you 0:59:30.240 --> 0:59:33.280 don't just change with the way the wind is blowing, 0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:35.800 but that you are staying true through those moments, and 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:38.320 that you're sticking up for your beliefs cuse I think 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:41.320 at least you know, at least people will respect. 0:59:41.000 --> 0:59:45.000 You right and giving them facts and data that actually 0:59:45.160 --> 0:59:49.240 reinforces your position. I think that's really critical. Just a 0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:51.040 few more questions. I could talk to you guys for 0:59:51.240 --> 0:59:54.040 hours a lot to do it over feer sometimes, please, 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.680 but I'd love to know, just sort of logistically, selfishly 0:59:57.880 --> 1:00:00.840 a little about the secret sauce that has made you 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.800 so successful. You guys have hired a bunch of different 1:00:05.240 --> 1:00:08.400 It's interesting. I didn't realize Michael Cohen was part of 1:00:08.480 --> 1:00:11.120 your network, you know, the former Trump Trump lawyer, But 1:00:11.640 --> 1:00:14.840 you have hired a lot of different people. You have correspondence, 1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:17.800 but you also have sort of what might traditionally be 1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:21.440 called pundits. Do you ever feel like you've got too 1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:24.800 much content that's coming out or how do you kind 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:26.400 of organize what you're doing. 1:00:26.920 --> 1:00:29.440 So we've taken the twenty four hour cable news cycle 1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:32.640 and we've tried to deconstruct it. So whereas a twenty 1:00:32.680 --> 1:00:36.600 four hour cable news cycle, you'll have how many stories 1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:38.880 in a given day, five to seven that are on 1:00:39.040 --> 1:00:42.160 repeat every day. So we try to take those five 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:45.080 to seven stories that and I don't watch what cable 1:00:45.160 --> 1:00:47.520 news is those five to seven We program it based 1:00:47.560 --> 1:00:50.439 on what we think are the most important, say seven 1:00:50.480 --> 1:00:53.040 to ten stories of the day, and then that becomes 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:57.680 basically ten to twelve YouTube videos you know, every day 1:00:57.840 --> 1:00:59.720 from you know, and they're all. 1:00:59.520 --> 1:01:02.800 Your different contributors, right because you do some right and 1:01:03.440 --> 1:01:07.000 do do I'll do yes, I see you too, Jordan. 1:01:07.400 --> 1:01:08.439 Every now every now. 1:01:08.600 --> 1:01:11.160 More so social they do more of the long form stuff. 1:01:11.360 --> 1:01:15.120 So every day we probably have about one or two 1:01:15.480 --> 1:01:19.280 some days three live shows that last about an hour. 1:01:19.880 --> 1:01:21.680 And so that may be the show I do with 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:24.920 bretton Jordy. That may be a show called Legal af 1:01:25.040 --> 1:01:26.880 that I do with a guy named Michael Popak and 1:01:27.280 --> 1:01:30.320 Karen Friedman Agnifolo and she was the number two DA 1:01:30.400 --> 1:01:32.440 in the minute. These are like top Lords. 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:34.040 I'm kidding. 1:01:34.120 --> 1:01:34.840 No no, no, no no. 1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:36.600 It means analysis friends. 1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:42.200 By the way, legal analysis, analysis friends some people. It 1:01:42.240 --> 1:01:44.840 could be a play on somebody else, but it's analysis friends. 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:47.600 Okay, get Clara out of the gutter. 1:01:51.520 --> 1:01:54.880 And so about ten videos to twelve videos a day 1:01:55.680 --> 1:02:00.240 that are about ten to fifteen minutes. And let whatever 1:02:00.320 --> 1:02:02.560 it takes to go through a court filing or to 1:02:02.640 --> 1:02:05.640 provide all of the data where we feel that we've 1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:08.280 covered the issue in a way that people really get. 1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:10.640 So we do that twelve times a day. 1:02:10.720 --> 1:02:12.560 Maybe there's a four am, although now that I'm on 1:02:12.600 --> 1:02:14.600 East Coast time, it's all screwed up, But on the 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:17.560 West Coast it's a four or five thirty seven, you know, 1:02:17.640 --> 1:02:20.280 and you basically go ninety minutes out and you program 1:02:20.400 --> 1:02:22.800 it like that with two or three live shows a day, 1:02:22.840 --> 1:02:25.160 and some days maybe on the weekend it's one live show. 1:02:26.760 --> 1:02:29.440 And then we have our other social media built around it. 1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:32.080 So we've got the TikTok, we've got the Instagram, We've 1:02:32.120 --> 1:02:34.360 got all those of the Blue Sky, which our accounts 1:02:34.400 --> 1:02:36.640 do very well on as well. And then the audio 1:02:36.800 --> 1:02:40.320 podcast as well, has some the main brother podcast and 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:42.840 maybe a few selective you know, gase. 1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:45.320 Ever Sleep Yeah. And how do you how do you 1:02:45.400 --> 1:02:47.800 make money off all this stuff? Because that has been, 1:02:47.920 --> 1:02:52.520 of course, the big dilemma for people who have transferred 1:02:52.560 --> 1:02:55.960 to kind of a pure digital platform. They used to 1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:59.960 talk about analog dollars and digital pennies, so that's changed. 1:03:00.240 --> 1:03:02.400 Just more than fifty percent of people are now getting 1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:05.320 their using information from social media. But what is your 1:03:05.440 --> 1:03:06.360 financial model. 1:03:06.520 --> 1:03:09.800 I think it's still analog dollars digital pennies, although the 1:03:09.960 --> 1:03:13.040 analog dollars right are getting a little bit less and 1:03:13.120 --> 1:03:16.720 the digital pennies are getting more, which is a good thing. 1:03:17.160 --> 1:03:20.479 I just spoke recently at a panel and I said, 1:03:21.160 --> 1:03:24.240 one of the most important things I think to monetizing 1:03:24.320 --> 1:03:26.560 it is you don't go in it to monetizing And 1:03:26.600 --> 1:03:29.880 I mean truly, we never went into this thinking how 1:03:29.920 --> 1:03:34.439 do we make the biggest business decisions That naturally grew 1:03:34.760 --> 1:03:37.880 out of building good content. 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:40.000 And a good base and a big community. 1:03:40.320 --> 1:03:43.680 And then the community exactly, and the community was there 1:03:43.720 --> 1:03:46.960 and that's what we fought for always and stood by 1:03:47.040 --> 1:03:49.560 the community, built the community, and they built us. It's been, 1:03:50.120 --> 1:03:52.880 you know, very mutual. And then as you grow that, 1:03:53.360 --> 1:03:56.200 you know, then you start to get into your digital 1:03:56.280 --> 1:03:59.440 pennies analog dollars, and you start to look at you know, 1:03:59.560 --> 1:04:02.880 what's YouTube CPM which is a different name for it, 1:04:03.040 --> 1:04:06.920 but what's a podcast CPM? And then what's a host 1:04:07.000 --> 1:04:11.360 read CPM? And then you start getting into conversations that 1:04:11.600 --> 1:04:14.920 start to not fully are but start to look similar 1:04:15.040 --> 1:04:17.440 to the way traditional. 1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:17.960 TV viewed things. 1:04:18.040 --> 1:04:22.200 You know, what's a CPM and here's the here's where 1:04:22.240 --> 1:04:25.960 things are moving. I think right now, if you were 1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:30.000 to buy and add a thirty second or sixty second 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:33.920 spot on a cable news network, your CPM would be 1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:37.240 super high for thirty seconds, and you may be paying 1:04:37.400 --> 1:04:40.440 an outrage. You know, they'll say it's a good you know, 1:04:41.000 --> 1:04:42.840 the networks will say it makes sense, but you'll be 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:45.840 paying whatever X dollars for that thirty seconds. After the 1:04:45.920 --> 1:04:48.320 show airs, no one sees the ad again, and you're 1:04:48.360 --> 1:04:51.040 one of five ads that may be during that block 1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:52.880 or four ads during that block, and no one ever 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:55.520 sees it again. And I don't know what the conversion 1:04:55.640 --> 1:04:58.920 rate even is for you know, because it's not even 1:04:58.960 --> 1:05:01.360 really track that way. How many people bought a car 1:05:01.520 --> 1:05:01.920 based on. 1:05:02.440 --> 1:05:06.280 Those those vitamins that tastes like vegetables, right. 1:05:08.240 --> 1:05:08.520 News? 1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:12.560 You know, So if we're getting a million views, if 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:15.080 we're getting a million views, you know, on a video, 1:05:15.680 --> 1:05:20.040 and then there's a host read you know, read and 1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:23.400 Jordi you know, works with the with the advertisers to 1:05:23.520 --> 1:05:26.840 make sure we're getting advertisers that kind of meet our criterion. 1:05:26.880 --> 1:05:29.480 We're not bringing advertisers that we think are not the 1:05:29.560 --> 1:05:33.400 right fits for us. You know, you start thinking about, well, 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:36.120 what does that CPM look like? And you know, I 1:05:36.200 --> 1:05:39.840 think it's a more valuable proposition ultimately to an advertiser 1:05:40.080 --> 1:05:42.400 down the road. And I think this is where this 1:05:42.560 --> 1:05:45.040 is where the industry is moving. And I think, I 1:05:45.120 --> 1:05:48.040 think this is why we see so many people looking 1:05:48.160 --> 1:05:51.240 at a model, you know that that I think we 1:05:51.480 --> 1:05:53.280 you know, and again there's been a lot of people 1:05:53.320 --> 1:05:55.960 involved in this, but I think that we've helped, you know, 1:05:56.320 --> 1:06:00.200 show that this is a viable path for one of 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:02.760 the first and people are seeing it and saying, oh, 1:06:02.880 --> 1:06:03.160 got it. 1:06:03.240 --> 1:06:04.320 I see how Midas did it. 1:06:04.440 --> 1:06:07.800 Let me try to build a network, And that's kind 1:06:07.840 --> 1:06:10.000 of how we, you know, how we think about things there. 1:06:10.400 --> 1:06:13.680 It's interesting over the past few years since we've been 1:06:13.800 --> 1:06:16.840 doing this, we've seen a lot of companies kind of 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:19.520 come and go try to enter the space. And I 1:06:19.600 --> 1:06:21.800 think the theme that I've seen and the ones that 1:06:22.160 --> 1:06:25.240 have kind of come and gone quickly are the ones 1:06:25.360 --> 1:06:28.320 that start with a top down approach rather than a 1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:31.200 bottom up approach. And by that, I mean, you know, 1:06:31.280 --> 1:06:34.600 you see this big splashy announcement so and so was 1:06:35.200 --> 1:06:38.840 you know, the editor in chief of such and such, 1:06:39.240 --> 1:06:41.680 You know newspaper, and now they're going to make the 1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:44.960 digital network for the future. And they got an eighty 1:06:45.040 --> 1:06:49.480 million dollar investment, and they're gonna open up twelve offices 1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:51.840 around the world, and they're going to hire one hundred 1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:54.560 and fifty staff and and anytime I see that, I'll 1:06:54.600 --> 1:06:57.160 be I give them a year. I mean, how the 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.440 economics aren't gonna even work. I mean, the office is alone. 1:07:00.440 --> 1:07:02.760 I'm kind of sinking, like I don't even understand how 1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:02.960 you have. 1:07:03.240 --> 1:07:04.040 Still dollar penny. 1:07:05.920 --> 1:07:07.200 So like to me, I'm like, I don't even know 1:07:07.320 --> 1:07:08.960 how this is how you think this is. 1:07:09.000 --> 1:07:09.440 Going to work. 1:07:09.600 --> 1:07:12.440 But so how many people do you have all together 1:07:12.720 --> 1:07:13.320 on your team? 1:07:13.480 --> 1:07:15.840 So I think one of the one of the things 1:07:15.920 --> 1:07:18.480 that is most effective about what we've done here is 1:07:18.520 --> 1:07:21.320 the way we've decentralized it. So, you know, I think 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:24.720 as far as like kind of full time staff is concerned, 1:07:25.040 --> 1:07:26.520 you know, at this point, are probably like ten to 1:07:26.600 --> 1:07:29.920 fifteen like full time full time, like you know. And 1:07:30.000 --> 1:07:32.080 then in addition to that, though, we have dozens and 1:07:32.280 --> 1:07:35.840 dozens and dozens of contributors who are also producing content 1:07:35.960 --> 1:07:37.640 and contractors and people like that. 1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:40.200 So so it's not it's their side hustle kind of 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:42.880 or is it for sometributor. 1:07:42.200 --> 1:07:44.360 You know, it's one of those things where you get 1:07:44.400 --> 1:07:46.480 what you put into it. And so there are some 1:07:46.680 --> 1:07:50.880 folks who are you know, making videos every day, doing 1:07:50.960 --> 1:07:53.600 to a day you know, you know, are just really 1:07:53.680 --> 1:07:55.919 crushing it and this is like become their main thing 1:07:56.480 --> 1:07:59.720 and now their livelihood is making you know, videos for 1:07:59.840 --> 1:08:01.960 my Touch, which I think is amazing that we're able 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:05.040 to to folks. And then we may have folks who 1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:07.320 do you know, a video a month or you know, 1:08:07.360 --> 1:08:10.200 a couple of videos a month, and you know this 1:08:10.280 --> 1:08:12.840 will be their side thing. And so I think, you know, 1:08:12.960 --> 1:08:14.840 I think we offer that flexibility to folks you know 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:16.479 who work with us kind of how much do you 1:08:16.520 --> 1:08:18.839 want to put into it and what's kind of resonating 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:21.280 with folks. But you know, I think it's cool that 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:23.559 we've been able to build this platform from the ground 1:08:23.640 --> 1:08:27.200 up completely independently, without a penny of outside investment money, 1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:29.080 you know, getting us to where we are, you know 1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:33.120 right now. And so you know, and and obviously you know, 1:08:34.120 --> 1:08:36.560 we were certainly afforded, you know, privileges of you know, 1:08:36.680 --> 1:08:39.639 all having jobs and being able to take this leap 1:08:39.720 --> 1:08:41.880 that other folks aren't necessarily able to do. And I 1:08:41.960 --> 1:08:45.240 completely acknowledge that, but I think I think it's important 1:08:45.280 --> 1:08:48.559 that you know, you do have that kind of ground 1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:51.400 up approach when you approach it, because when you're dealing 1:08:51.479 --> 1:08:53.639 with when you're dealing with pennies, you can't be spending 1:08:54.040 --> 1:08:56.600 you know, you can't be spending dollars. You need to 1:08:56.600 --> 1:08:58.880 figure out a way to do this. And you know, 1:08:59.160 --> 1:09:01.000 I'll also go back to our roots here. I'll take 1:09:01.040 --> 1:09:03.200 it back to the beginning because during the pandemic, one 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.400 of the things that we noticed was everyone was recording 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:09.160 from their homes and so we would watch CNN, we 1:09:09.200 --> 1:09:12.040 would watch you know, NBC, we'd watch all the networks. 1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:14.680 Everyone's on Skype or Zoom or whatever, and so we 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:15.479 were like, we could do that. 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:19.240 Yeah, we've said. We said, well, I mean it's amazing. 1:09:19.360 --> 1:09:21.200 I mean, as somebody who you know, used to have 1:09:21.320 --> 1:09:24.200 hair and makeup every morning or night and be on 1:09:24.320 --> 1:09:27.960 a fancy, you know, desk with life and camera crews 1:09:28.040 --> 1:09:31.920 and everything, and I'm like, there's something great too about 1:09:32.080 --> 1:09:35.160 the immediacy, Like we'd have to call somebody and get 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:37.240 them in a car and have them come to the studio, 1:09:37.840 --> 1:09:40.439 and there's something great about just being able to talk 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:42.880 to someone right away. If it's by the way, there's 1:09:42.880 --> 1:09:43.800 a rawness to it. 1:09:43.920 --> 1:09:46.080 There's an authenticity to it also. 1:09:46.120 --> 1:09:49.280 You know scariness. There's people see me without make them. 1:09:50.160 --> 1:09:53.519 I totally do not think that, but but you know, 1:09:53.600 --> 1:09:56.760 I think though it, you know, it requires you to, 1:09:57.240 --> 1:09:59.240 you know, think a little differently, right, You don't necessarily 1:09:59.720 --> 1:10:01.880 you know, I know, and I think Ben knows he 1:10:01.920 --> 1:10:04.880 doesn't have necessarily you know, a studio, music, all this 1:10:04.920 --> 1:10:07.000 stuff lifting him up, and so he has to, you know, 1:10:07.080 --> 1:10:09.080 in many ways focus on the content. 1:10:08.960 --> 1:10:12.280 Right, and there it's a fakiness about like good evening, yeah, 1:10:12.320 --> 1:10:12.880 you know, and. 1:10:13.720 --> 1:10:15.640 I think people see, you know, see through a lot 1:10:15.680 --> 1:10:19.200 of that, and so you know, I in doing it 1:10:19.320 --> 1:10:21.680 in that way, you know, I think ultimately, like if 1:10:21.680 --> 1:10:23.720 anyone is like watching this and like, how do I 1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:25.400 start something like this? Like you want to make sure 1:10:25.439 --> 1:10:27.160 your sound is good, you want to make sure people 1:10:27.160 --> 1:10:29.200 could see, Okay, you want a good camera, good audio. 1:10:29.520 --> 1:10:31.400 Aside from that, people are going to be actually pretty 1:10:31.400 --> 1:10:34.160 forgiving with the rest of the stuff. And I think 1:10:34.600 --> 1:10:36.280 in the beginning also there were so many people who 1:10:36.280 --> 1:10:38.519 would come to us you know, I got this, I 1:10:38.640 --> 1:10:41.000 got this great video, I got this great painting. I 1:10:41.120 --> 1:10:42.920 just need to run it through a few weeks of 1:10:43.000 --> 1:10:45.680 testing and then we're going to make some changes. And 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:47.800 then if I could just get an investor. 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:50.360 You just do it restributor. And you know, that's the 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:52.320 one question I also wanted to ask you. You know, 1:10:52.960 --> 1:10:55.240 you do it in real time, you experiment, you get 1:10:55.439 --> 1:10:58.599 kind of the reaction. I promise, I only have business 1:11:00.400 --> 1:11:01.320 talking to you. Guys. 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:04.479 We've before you ask We've been very excited to do this. 1:11:05.840 --> 1:11:08.040 We're big Katie. We asked for a lot of interviews. 1:11:08.080 --> 1:11:11.240 We don't really do it. Oh, but we're very big fans. 1:11:11.000 --> 1:11:13.600 Of you, and thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. 1:11:13.960 --> 1:11:16.360 That means a lot to me. But you talked about 1:11:16.680 --> 1:11:20.479 how responsive you guys are to your community, and I'm curious. 1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:22.960 You know, I love the interactivity. You know it's not 1:11:23.040 --> 1:11:25.439 always fun to read because when you read a mean 1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:30.160 comment or whatever, But tell me what that actually means 1:11:30.720 --> 1:11:33.840 being responsive to your community. Can you give me sort 1:11:33.840 --> 1:11:34.840 of an example of that. 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:39.560 I'll give you an example of the message that resonated 1:11:39.600 --> 1:11:41.799 and how we do it. If you looked at Senator 1:11:41.880 --> 1:11:45.439 Bernie Sanders and AOC's rallies recently where there have been 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.479 thirty thousand people in fifteen thousand. There's a part of 1:11:48.560 --> 1:11:50.800 it where they go into the audience and they say 1:11:51.040 --> 1:11:53.320 they ask the audience, how do you feel about this? 1:11:53.600 --> 1:11:55.840 And then they just listen and you hear what the 1:11:55.920 --> 1:12:00.080 people are saying. And we do something intuitively similar for 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:03.000 the past five years where we want to know how 1:12:03.040 --> 1:12:07.719 they're feeling, what they're thinking about issues, and really listen 1:12:07.960 --> 1:12:12.120 and learn from their experiences. And that's where we understand, 1:12:12.320 --> 1:12:14.040 you know, Okay, this is what you're going through, this 1:12:14.120 --> 1:12:16.520 is what you're going through, this is what you're experiencing. 1:12:16.680 --> 1:12:20.960 And so we have that sense in our overall programming 1:12:21.160 --> 1:12:21.600 where they are. 1:12:21.680 --> 1:12:22.559 And another what. 1:12:22.720 --> 1:12:25.400 Is it reading like their comments or is it do 1:12:25.520 --> 1:12:29.040 you have a special site or email address where you 1:12:29.160 --> 1:12:31.080 actually hear from people? How do you do that? 1:12:31.320 --> 1:12:33.559 It's all of the above. I mean it's reading the comments. 1:12:34.040 --> 1:12:38.000 We hold sometimes one two times a month, we'll hold 1:12:38.120 --> 1:12:42.360 meetings with our supporters and with the mightas Mighty as 1:12:42.400 --> 1:12:44.719 we call them, and we'll do zoom chats and they'll 1:12:44.720 --> 1:12:48.160 tell us how they're feeling. They'll explain to us on 1:12:48.280 --> 1:12:52.960 our social media handles, they'll usually you know, at us 1:12:53.200 --> 1:12:56.840 and certain things, and so it's an aggregate of all 1:12:56.960 --> 1:13:01.040 of that and we're just constantly listening to them every day. 1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:03.920 It's not necessary we have those meetings, but it is 1:13:04.040 --> 1:13:08.000 kind of a constant back and forth since this started. 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:12.519 Just another example is when we started covering Canadian politics, 1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:17.360 which was a big and our expansion internationally, but we 1:13:17.800 --> 1:13:21.280 listened and listened and listened, and a lot of American 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:27.559 media networks supplant the Canadian experience with their American centric 1:13:27.720 --> 1:13:31.560 views of how Canada is versus really listening to what 1:13:31.680 --> 1:13:34.880 people in Canada are experiencing. And so before we started 1:13:34.920 --> 1:13:38.280 doing any reporting on Canada, we had to understand the 1:13:38.400 --> 1:13:40.880 dynamics of the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party and 1:13:40.920 --> 1:13:43.639 the NDP and the Green Party and how things work 1:13:43.760 --> 1:13:46.200 and what's going on with Carnie and what's going on 1:13:46.320 --> 1:13:50.320 with Pierre Poliev and understanding you know, all of those dynamics. 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:56.080 And this was it was a relentless listening experience, and 1:13:56.200 --> 1:13:58.840 then we started talking about it and then it started 1:13:58.880 --> 1:14:02.519 connecting in Canada. So the Midas Touch Network podcast became 1:14:02.560 --> 1:14:07.160 the most listened to podcasts in Canada about Canadian politics 1:14:08.360 --> 1:14:10.560 and that, and what we heard from them is just 1:14:10.640 --> 1:14:15.120 such a compliment which told us that. But the feedback 1:14:15.200 --> 1:14:18.400 there was, it's because you're listening to us, and you 1:14:18.600 --> 1:14:22.320 understand that when Donald Trump is making these threats against us, 1:14:22.520 --> 1:14:24.760 it's not a joke. Nor do we view it as 1:14:24.760 --> 1:14:27.639 a trade war. We view it as a war war. 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:31.439 We view that type of language the same way that 1:14:31.760 --> 1:14:36.519 Ukraine views putin talking about denocification. Is how when he 1:14:36.720 --> 1:14:39.640 uses language fifty first state, it's an attack on our 1:14:39.760 --> 1:14:42.439 very existence and our sovereignty. So we want you to 1:14:42.560 --> 1:14:46.080 understand why it is we're boycotting American products, and it's 1:14:46.080 --> 1:14:48.599 not that we don't like Americans. It's that the leader 1:14:48.640 --> 1:14:51.120 of your country right now is basically threatening an invasion 1:14:51.200 --> 1:14:53.960 against us. And so when you start speaking like that, 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:55.040 they go, thank. 1:14:54.960 --> 1:14:56.080 You, you know, they go. 1:14:56.200 --> 1:14:59.320 Our local media doesn't even talk about it in those terms, and. 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:00.000 That's how we felt. 1:15:00.360 --> 1:15:03.480 Yeah, it's obvious that you have an audience first mentality, 1:15:03.560 --> 1:15:05.920 and it is surprising to me, as somebody who's been 1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:10.400 doing this a long time, how all these interactive tools 1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:15.719 are at our fingertips and still most media organizations really 1:15:15.800 --> 1:15:19.080 don't utilize them, not to blow my own for a nanosecond, 1:15:19.160 --> 1:15:21.679 But when I was I wrote about this in my book. 1:15:21.840 --> 1:15:24.000 Sorry everybody who works with me, because they've heard the 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:26.559 story a million times. But when I was at doing 1:15:26.640 --> 1:15:29.559 the CBS Evening News, I was covering the golf oil spill, 1:15:30.160 --> 1:15:31.840 and I said, what do you guys want to know 1:15:32.280 --> 1:15:33.719 about the golf oil spill? 1:15:33.960 --> 1:15:34.600 That you know? 1:15:34.760 --> 1:15:37.680 Because I think you get in a media cycle or 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:39.960 a news cycle and you kind of repeat the same 1:15:40.080 --> 1:15:42.679 thing over and over again, or you advance the story 1:15:42.760 --> 1:15:45.280 in a small way, but you kind of miss the 1:15:45.360 --> 1:15:48.880 forest for the tree sometimes. So I asked on Twitter 1:15:49.000 --> 1:15:51.880 back then, you know, what are your questions about what's 1:15:51.960 --> 1:15:54.959 going on in the golf And the people at CBS 1:15:55.360 --> 1:16:00.960 were so unnerved by me trying to to understand what 1:16:01.120 --> 1:16:03.760 people cared about, what they wanted to know, and what 1:16:03.920 --> 1:16:07.040 they were thinking and what they were wondering about. But 1:16:07.680 --> 1:16:11.519 to me, if you're serving an audience, why wouldn't you 1:16:12.360 --> 1:16:14.320 listen to them? And I think Brett you were talking 1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:17.640 about the top down approach and kind of serve your 1:16:17.800 --> 1:16:21.560 audience where they are and what they want to know 1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:23.960 instead of what you think they should be told. 1:16:24.200 --> 1:16:27.160 Right, Hey, and what either whether you're a politician or 1:16:27.200 --> 1:16:30.960 a reporter, or you're selling tires or I don't care 1:16:31.000 --> 1:16:33.320 what it is that you're doing, if you don't understand 1:16:33.400 --> 1:16:36.160 what people want and what people are looking for from you, 1:16:36.640 --> 1:16:38.200 you know, I think you're I think you're going to 1:16:38.240 --> 1:16:40.439 miss it. And you're right. You know, now more than ever, 1:16:41.280 --> 1:16:43.360 people are gonna let you know what they think. You know, 1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:46.920 it's they're not shy about it. Better for better, they're 1:16:46.960 --> 1:16:47.840 not exactly shy. 1:16:48.000 --> 1:16:50.599 I used to say, the good thing about the internet 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:55.160 is everyone now has a voice. The bad thing everyone 1:16:55.600 --> 1:16:56.400 now has a voice. 1:16:56.560 --> 1:16:58.560 Yeah, So I mean people aren't shy about it, and 1:16:59.000 --> 1:17:01.519 you know, and and people well may disagree with us 1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:05.240 too at times, you know, but at least we know, 1:17:05.520 --> 1:17:06.880 you know, what they're thinking, and at least they know 1:17:06.920 --> 1:17:08.960 that we're coming from a place of like, this is 1:17:09.080 --> 1:17:11.599 what we really believe in it, and we're not going 1:17:11.680 --> 1:17:14.280 to b su you know, on it. And I think 1:17:14.320 --> 1:17:15.240 that's kind of the most. 1:17:15.080 --> 1:17:18.679 Important corporate news took surgery. Yeah, I was. From my perspective, 1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:20.680 I don't think the minus touch network exists at this 1:17:20.800 --> 1:17:23.280 scale that it does now without our audience, without the 1:17:23.360 --> 1:17:27.479 midas Mighty, and without that relentless relationship of listening and 1:17:27.560 --> 1:17:31.000 feedback that we have every second of the day, we 1:17:31.200 --> 1:17:33.160 read everything, for better. 1:17:33.040 --> 1:17:35.320 Or for worse, We read time to do it every 1:17:35.439 --> 1:17:36.280 but I'm glad. 1:17:36.080 --> 1:17:38.680 You do because it's very important for us that we 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:42.080 really understand how our audience is feeling. And they were 1:17:42.160 --> 1:17:45.160 with us five years ago when I moved back into 1:17:45.200 --> 1:17:49.439 my mom's basement during in the lockdown. Yeah, doing it 1:17:49.520 --> 1:17:51.840 from there to now I have a kid and I'm 1:17:51.880 --> 1:17:54.599 living with my wife in Pittsburgh, and so they've seen 1:17:54.720 --> 1:17:57.080 us mature in the network, mature every step of the way, 1:17:57.120 --> 1:18:00.519 and it's really been this familial relation ship that we've 1:18:00.520 --> 1:18:01.080 been able. 1:18:00.920 --> 1:18:03.360 To faster and the and the walls have been broken. 1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:11.960 If you want to get smarter every morning with a 1:18:12.000 --> 1:18:15.280 breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 1:18:15.360 --> 1:18:18.639 wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:31.000 wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. I 1:18:31.120 --> 1:18:35.439 think there still is this sort of artifice about a 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:39.000 lot of mainstream media and the way they communicate with people, 1:18:39.160 --> 1:18:42.600 and obviously you all have tapped into that the a 1:18:42.800 --> 1:18:46.080 word authenticity, which I think it's overused, but I think 1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:47.439 it actually still holds. 1:18:47.680 --> 1:18:49.920 Yeah, it's it's one of those cliche for a reason. 1:18:50.520 --> 1:18:52.840 Yeah yeah, I mean I think that's been one of 1:18:52.920 --> 1:18:56.200 the reasons I've been successful professionally, is I think people 1:18:57.040 --> 1:18:59.680 think that I'm the same on cameras i am off, 1:18:59.760 --> 1:19:01.800 which I am most of the time. You know, I'm 1:19:01.840 --> 1:19:06.200 not fully unfiltered when I do things, and maybe I 1:19:06.240 --> 1:19:09.600 should be a little less, you know, or more unfiltered. 1:19:09.960 --> 1:19:12.479 But before we go, I want to we've kind of 1:19:12.960 --> 1:19:16.439 mentioned the manosphere and young men in this country. How 1:19:16.479 --> 1:19:18.320 old are you been? Forty forty? 1:19:18.560 --> 1:19:21.640 Well, it's about to be forty a few days your 1:19:22.120 --> 1:19:23.599 or over over yes, overselling. 1:19:23.600 --> 1:19:25.200 I don't know when I know When's it going to air. 1:19:27.640 --> 1:19:28.320 On Thursday? 1:19:28.439 --> 1:19:30.840 So h a couple of days before? 1:19:31.720 --> 1:19:31.840 Right? 1:19:32.240 --> 1:19:37.679 Old thirty five? So forty thirty five, thirty two. Tell 1:19:37.720 --> 1:19:42.160 me about what you think is happening to younger men 1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:46.280 in this country, both really primarily gen Z and how 1:19:46.360 --> 1:19:51.960 they have gravitated so enthusiastically, and maybe this is not 1:19:52.160 --> 1:19:55.960 even factually correct. I have to really check the numbers. 1:19:56.040 --> 1:20:02.599 But to Republican, to maga politic and how well, first 1:20:02.600 --> 1:20:04.040 of all, I want to know why you think this 1:20:04.160 --> 1:20:06.680 has happened, And then I want to know what you 1:20:06.800 --> 1:20:10.080 think can be done to change those dynamics. 1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:14.120 I think the idea of alpha has been hijacked by 1:20:14.200 --> 1:20:17.840 the least alpha people in the world. Okay, like a 1:20:18.000 --> 1:20:22.320 JD Vance, we're saying all my masculinities under attack. Okay, 1:20:22.400 --> 1:20:24.120 that's not an alpha thing to say. Like, let's be 1:20:24.320 --> 1:20:26.160 very cliqu When when I hear stuff like that, I'm like, 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:28.599 what are you your masculinity? This is what you think 1:20:28.640 --> 1:20:30.640 about that your masculinity is under attack? What the hell 1:20:30.640 --> 1:20:32.640 are you talking about? You know, all of this like 1:20:32.880 --> 1:20:35.680 you know, whining that I hear from these magma Oh 1:20:35.760 --> 1:20:36.800 my god, you're coming after me. 1:20:37.000 --> 1:20:40.040 Oh. My friend Joeanne Littman wrote a whole essay about that, 1:20:40.200 --> 1:20:42.639 you know, all doxed and attacked. It was awful. I'm 1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:43.240 going to send it to you. 1:20:43.479 --> 1:20:45.040 You know, you know all of that. 1:20:45.400 --> 1:20:47.360 When I grew up, I don't like the term alpha 1:20:47.479 --> 1:20:50.280 in general. You know, you're an alpha, you know, but 1:20:50.560 --> 1:20:53.360 to me, at least as I was raised, you know, 1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:56.679 being a good guy or good person, but you stand 1:20:56.800 --> 1:20:59.720 up for people to me, like the cool kid or 1:20:59.800 --> 1:21:04.200 the or the growing up when I was in high school. 1:21:04.760 --> 1:21:07.519 Now would be considered that you would stand up against 1:21:07.560 --> 1:21:10.519 the bully. The bully wasn't like the alpha person. The 1:21:10.560 --> 1:21:13.120 bully was like the loser, you know, like why are 1:21:13.120 --> 1:21:15.920 you bullying these people? Like you would want to stand 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:18.759 up for people. And that's to me what was always 1:21:18.840 --> 1:21:21.519 viewed as like cool and how you know, at least 1:21:21.560 --> 1:21:24.600 how I was raised and being a good man to 1:21:24.720 --> 1:21:27.320 me is being a man of your word, being someone 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:32.559 of honor, you know, you know, against standing up for people. 1:21:33.240 --> 1:21:36.320 And that's kind of been you know, inverted with this 1:21:36.600 --> 1:21:40.400 to me, this corrosive culture that has you know, basically 1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:44.120 said the opposite that the bullies and the people who 1:21:44.240 --> 1:21:47.720 punch down. That's been viewed right now as like what 1:21:47.840 --> 1:21:48.920 it is and it shouldn't be. 1:21:49.080 --> 1:21:51.800 Yes, just because of Trump, really, isn't it The way 1:21:51.920 --> 1:21:54.360 he speaks and the way he talks and the way 1:21:54.439 --> 1:21:59.479 he demeans people. Suddenly that has probably been interpret as. 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:02.320 Good for it right in so many ways. You know, 1:22:02.320 --> 1:22:04.160 it's funny when when when you speak about that, I 1:22:04.240 --> 1:22:06.280 think about I think it's in twenty one Jump Street. 1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:10.040 There's a scene in the movie, uh, you know where 1:22:10.160 --> 1:22:11.920 Channing Tatum where they go to the high school and 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:13.680 they try to be cool as they knew it, like 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:15.280 in the eighties and tried to be like kind of 1:22:15.320 --> 1:22:17.800 the bullies and stuff, and they're looked down upon as like, nah, 1:22:18.439 --> 1:22:20.320 like we're not into that anymore. What are you doing 1:22:20.439 --> 1:22:23.320 like this weird this weird stuff? And uh And I 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:25.240 feel like I, you know, I grew up the same way. 1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:27.439 But you know, I think that I think that too 1:22:27.439 --> 1:22:30.560 many people are looking at you know, Gen's Z or 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:33.960 Jen Alpha right now as being molded and kind of 1:22:34.080 --> 1:22:37.200 set in certain ways, and that this election was, you know, 1:22:37.280 --> 1:22:39.400 a reflection on who they are now and who they're 1:22:39.400 --> 1:22:40.040 always going to be. 1:22:40.920 --> 1:22:43.200 But I do think they're being molded by some of 1:22:43.240 --> 1:22:50.280 these percent they're giving anti women's empowerment bros, I. 1:22:50.280 --> 1:22:53.320 Think one hundred percent. But I don't think that's something 1:22:53.400 --> 1:22:57.120 that is going to be like concrete in them necessarily. 1:22:57.200 --> 1:22:59.680 I think people have their lived experiences, and I think 1:22:59.720 --> 1:23:01.640 one of the interesting things that we've even seen in 1:23:01.680 --> 1:23:04.560 the past few months since Trump has taken office is 1:23:04.600 --> 1:23:06.240 when you look at a lot of those public opinion 1:23:06.320 --> 1:23:09.400 polls of gen Z, they've completely flipped on their head, 1:23:09.840 --> 1:23:12.840 and polls that showed gen Z you know, even or 1:23:12.880 --> 1:23:16.960 supporting Trump back in November December. Now it's something like 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:20.000 sixty eight twenty something, you know, in the opposite direction. 1:23:20.160 --> 1:23:22.760 So you see how even you know, those shifts could happen. 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:24.360 And I think when people even go out into the 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:27.479 world and have experiences and have jobs and need to 1:23:28.000 --> 1:23:31.599 you know, afford medication and need to you know, help 1:23:31.680 --> 1:23:34.559 their mom who's on Social Security, and they see these 1:23:34.640 --> 1:23:37.400 real world things that you know, have been kind of 1:23:37.439 --> 1:23:41.320 gamified in this kind of manosphere world and that have 1:23:41.479 --> 1:23:43.799 kind of been stripped from them, I think the reality 1:23:43.840 --> 1:23:45.559 wakes them up, you know a little bit. 1:23:45.600 --> 1:23:48.080 I think because I feel like they're still watching the 1:23:48.160 --> 1:23:52.679 same people and still getting the same information. And unless 1:23:52.880 --> 1:23:58.480 those people are flipping or changing or abandoning this administration 1:23:58.640 --> 1:24:01.920 of what they're doing, they're going to be steadfast. 1:24:02.960 --> 1:24:05.080 Yeah, you know, I just I don't think they're lockdown. 1:24:05.280 --> 1:24:07.920 I mean, maybe I have, you know, too much faith, 1:24:08.320 --> 1:24:08.600 but I. 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:10.760 Think you have to look at the going back to 1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:12.560 where we almost started, right as I think you have 1:24:12.640 --> 1:24:14.960 to look at the root cause, which is how is 1:24:15.040 --> 1:24:19.360 this group able to be kind of preyed upon by 1:24:19.479 --> 1:24:23.680 in my opinion, these types of fraudsters and people who 1:24:23.800 --> 1:24:26.320 push this. And it's because, you know, I think a 1:24:26.360 --> 1:24:29.800 lot of young people and young men are scared that 1:24:29.840 --> 1:24:31.880 they're not going to have a future, right, And I 1:24:31.920 --> 1:24:36.400 think it stems from their weakness and that other people 1:24:36.560 --> 1:24:39.040 can pray on it because they're worried that am I 1:24:39.120 --> 1:24:40.880 going to Am I going to have a job? Am 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:42.800 I going to be able to afford a home? Can 1:24:42.880 --> 1:24:46.080 I bring someone on a date and afford to even 1:24:46.160 --> 1:24:47.640 pay for it? What's my future going? 1:24:47.760 --> 1:24:50.559 But it's also more than that to me, Benett's sort 1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:54.479 of oh, women are making all these strides, right, they're 1:24:54.560 --> 1:24:57.360 more women in college and law school than there are men. 1:24:58.040 --> 1:25:04.679 Or gosh, programs are giving unfair advantages, or affirmative action 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:07.560 or diversity programs in colleges or whatever you want to 1:25:07.600 --> 1:25:09.840 talk about. I mean, I've seen it play out in 1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:13.240 my own life among people I know, and they think 1:25:13.680 --> 1:25:17.479 when other people do well, they do less well. Right, 1:25:17.800 --> 1:25:21.800 And so there's just been this tremendous backlash and to 1:25:21.920 --> 1:25:25.479 your point, like a lot of whining like oh poor us, 1:25:25.640 --> 1:25:29.599 and playing the victim for a lot of young white men. 1:25:30.320 --> 1:25:33.640 And I think you're right, people are exploiting that. But 1:25:33.800 --> 1:25:37.759 how do you reverse it? How do you get people 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:41.680 to think differently and to see that this is you know, 1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:44.599 because I do think they're having some real world effects. 1:25:44.800 --> 1:25:49.720 Well, I think you can't solve that by trying to 1:25:50.280 --> 1:25:54.559 imitate it. You just become a worse version of something 1:25:54.640 --> 1:25:58.240 that's not already good. Which is why the learning experience 1:25:58.320 --> 1:26:01.040 of oh, the left needs to find a is the 1:26:01.160 --> 1:26:06.879 wrong advice, because you want to become someone who's already 1:26:06.960 --> 1:26:08.599 kind of praying on these communities. 1:26:08.600 --> 1:26:09.839 So what mean exactly? 1:26:10.000 --> 1:26:12.320 So you have to again, you have to be a 1:26:12.479 --> 1:26:15.040 voice that is a fighter. I mean, you have to 1:26:15.120 --> 1:26:17.920 go back to you have to be a doer. You 1:26:18.120 --> 1:26:21.439 have to be someone who actually accomplishes things and says, 1:26:21.720 --> 1:26:23.840 here's what I stand for. I mean, here are the 1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:27.160 views and values. It's not a zero sum game you 1:26:27.400 --> 1:26:31.000 against other groups and marginalized communities taking your That's not it. 1:26:31.520 --> 1:26:33.400 That's a pathetic way. You know who deals with that? 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:37.880 Whiners deal with that like not like people who are 1:26:38.160 --> 1:26:40.639 losers deal with that. You you want to be a winner, 1:26:41.080 --> 1:26:45.440 Let's work hard, you know, Let's let's focus on being entrepreneurial. 1:26:45.600 --> 1:26:49.400 Let's focus on actually building things versus destroying things. And 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:51.840 ripping things apart. Do you want to be a step up? 1:26:52.000 --> 1:26:55.519 But yeah, yeah, step up, you know, step up, And yeah. 1:26:55.600 --> 1:26:56.280 I'm not gonna be. 1:26:56.680 --> 1:27:00.719 You know, when I talk to sometimes my I lecture 1:27:00.800 --> 1:27:04.000 an undergrad. I have a big class. The semester's wrapped up. 1:27:04.360 --> 1:27:06.360 But you know, at the end of the semester too, 1:27:06.479 --> 1:27:10.240 sometimes I like to, you know, reflect on the way 1:27:10.400 --> 1:27:12.160 that I don't know what the class is political views, 1:27:12.160 --> 1:27:15.040 and I don't inject my political views ever in the class, 1:27:15.520 --> 1:27:19.800 but I do talk about how I have white kids, 1:27:19.880 --> 1:27:23.840 black kids, Latina kids, Asian students in my class, men, women, 1:27:23.960 --> 1:27:28.080 trans in my class. No one in my class ever 1:27:28.200 --> 1:27:33.599 thinks it's acceptable during the class to say, oh, look 1:27:33.640 --> 1:27:36.040 at you, this race, look at you, this person, look 1:27:36.080 --> 1:27:36.920 at you, this person. 1:27:37.120 --> 1:27:38.320 I don't like you. I don't like you. 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:40.240 I mean, could you imagine what would happen in a 1:27:40.280 --> 1:27:43.840 class if everybody was interacting and treating each other like No, 1:27:44.080 --> 1:27:48.120 we act professional. There's a professor. We go through the semester, 1:27:48.600 --> 1:27:52.200 we get along the diversity and the class, the different views, 1:27:52.280 --> 1:27:55.600 different gen that made the class a more powerful experience 1:27:55.840 --> 1:27:56.519 and we were all. 1:27:56.479 --> 1:27:57.080 Happy with it. 1:27:57.479 --> 1:27:59.680 So as I end the semester, I always go to them. 1:28:00.280 --> 1:28:04.280 So why when we leave this classroom and go into 1:28:04.439 --> 1:28:08.200 now what a political setting or a professional setting. Now 1:28:08.240 --> 1:28:11.080 we're supposed to all of a sudden take this and 1:28:11.280 --> 1:28:13.400 now fight each other, and now not like each other. 1:28:13.720 --> 1:28:15.880 We saw the strength of what made this class of 1:28:15.920 --> 1:28:18.439 one hundred and five people strong. It was the very 1:28:18.560 --> 1:28:21.240 diverse We all liked each other. So go out there 1:28:21.280 --> 1:28:23.880 and remember that this was a valuable experience for all 1:28:23.960 --> 1:28:26.160 of us, and that should be what the real world was, 1:28:26.240 --> 1:28:28.600 and that's what we should be fighting for. Not to 1:28:28.720 --> 1:28:33.280 see in the halls of Congress them not letting people 1:28:33.320 --> 1:28:34.679 in bath. They're like, what are they even doing? 1:28:34.840 --> 1:28:35.000 You know? 1:28:35.120 --> 1:28:37.960 I mean, it's lost her mind. 1:28:38.880 --> 1:28:40.479 She was somebody who a few years ago, you know, 1:28:40.600 --> 1:28:42.880 kind of pretended to be an ally and she's now 1:28:42.960 --> 1:28:43.920 the biggest voice, you. 1:28:43.960 --> 1:28:45.920 Know, against she does the selfies in bat. 1:28:45.960 --> 1:28:48.120 It's like weird, right, It's like like sixty times a day. 1:28:48.160 --> 1:28:50.280 It's like you're on vacation sixty times a day about 1:28:50.360 --> 1:28:54.200 any top at all, even like a hobby would be strange. 1:28:54.280 --> 1:28:56.560 I mean, yet alone, like this is what you you know, 1:28:56.680 --> 1:28:58.720 this is what you occupy your time with. And that's 1:28:58.720 --> 1:29:00.479 how I try to flip it on the you know them, 1:29:00.880 --> 1:29:02.800 you know more than I'm like, this is what you're 1:29:02.840 --> 1:29:06.400 focused on, Like you wake up thinking about bathrooms all day. 1:29:07.120 --> 1:29:10.400 This is your main view, you know, and and and 1:29:10.600 --> 1:29:13.200 that's to me how you address it versus living in 1:29:13.360 --> 1:29:18.760 their framework of all of their grievance and pettiness. 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:20.519 And hate just flipping on them, you know. I think 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:22.600 one of the things that people I think one of 1:29:22.640 --> 1:29:25.160 the reasons why people gravitate to the stuff we do 1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:27.800 as well, is because they leave with the information. And 1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:30.519 then I think they also leave empowered. And I think 1:29:30.640 --> 1:29:33.800 folks need to be empowered. They need to feel in 1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:36.400 control of their lives. And I think a lot of these, 1:29:36.680 --> 1:29:38.920 you know, young kids right now don't feel in control 1:29:38.960 --> 1:29:41.559 of their lives. And a lot of it's not their fault, right, 1:29:41.600 --> 1:29:43.360 I mean, this is the situation. This is the hands 1:29:43.400 --> 1:29:45.599 that they have been dealt, and it's you know, through 1:29:45.760 --> 1:29:48.439 decades and decades and decades, you know, whether it's poor 1:29:48.560 --> 1:29:53.519 policy or just shifts in global everything, like whatever it is. 1:29:53.800 --> 1:29:56.400 You know, they're looking now, they're looking at their parents, 1:29:56.760 --> 1:29:58.559 and they're going, well, they had it easy. They were 1:29:58.600 --> 1:30:01.519 able to get a you know, my you know, Dad 1:30:01.640 --> 1:30:03.920 was able to get one job and work you know, 1:30:04.479 --> 1:30:07.080 five days a week, you know, eight hour days, and 1:30:07.640 --> 1:30:10.920 come home or dinner, and we had two week vacations, 1:30:11.040 --> 1:30:13.439 you know, twice a year. You know, they look and 1:30:13.520 --> 1:30:14.920 they go, how the heck am I going to do that? 1:30:15.200 --> 1:30:17.519 You know, even if I had a job where I 1:30:17.640 --> 1:30:19.320 was making six figures, I'm not going to be able 1:30:19.320 --> 1:30:20.639 to afford a house. I'm not going to be able 1:30:20.680 --> 1:30:22.120 to have savings. I'm not going to be able to 1:30:22.200 --> 1:30:24.680 live in a neighborhood where I could walk around and 1:30:25.120 --> 1:30:27.760 get everything that I need to survive. And then in 1:30:27.880 --> 1:30:30.479 doing all that, how am I going to have kids? 1:30:30.520 --> 1:30:32.280 How am I going to be able to afford a family? 1:30:32.320 --> 1:30:34.639 I can't even afford to get a coffee for myself, 1:30:34.680 --> 1:30:37.360 you know. So these are real issues also, and so 1:30:37.960 --> 1:30:40.240 what I don't want to do is write off also 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:43.080 a lot of this as mere whining and you know, 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:46.280 you kind of woe is me, But understand that, you know, 1:30:46.800 --> 1:30:48.639 people are hurting, going back to what we were saying 1:30:48.680 --> 1:30:51.760 at the beginning, and that's including these younger generations, and 1:30:51.960 --> 1:30:54.040 so I think we need to empower them and. 1:30:54.320 --> 1:31:00.519 Also like acknowledge, acknowledge the anxiety and struggle. Know whoever, 1:31:00.680 --> 1:31:02.880 they may be right, and I think we. 1:31:02.920 --> 1:31:06.360 Need to you know, acknowledge it. And you know what 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:09.640 we've seen in those communities that you've talked about, the manuspheral, 1:31:09.640 --> 1:31:13.320 all that stuff, they've acknowledged it, and then they've directed 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:17.200 that anger at the other They've directed you are you 1:31:17.320 --> 1:31:21.840 can't afford a home because the Democrats are giving the 1:31:21.960 --> 1:31:24.599 money to illegal immigrants and that money should have went 1:31:24.640 --> 1:31:26.880 to you. And then, you know, the second there's a 1:31:26.960 --> 1:31:29.120 social program that may actually help people, they go, oh, no, 1:31:29.160 --> 1:31:32.200 we're not gonna pay for that. That's socialism, that's communism. 1:31:32.200 --> 1:31:33.400 We're not going to do that. It's like, okay, so 1:31:33.840 --> 1:31:35.920 you don't believe in any of this, right, but but 1:31:36.080 --> 1:31:39.040 too often that energy is taken and then it's pushed 1:31:39.040 --> 1:31:42.320 in a negative direction to blame other people for you know, 1:31:42.479 --> 1:31:46.200 for those woes, for those issues. I think we all 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:48.599 need to figure out a way as a society in general, 1:31:48.720 --> 1:31:50.640 to how do we empower people, you know, in a 1:31:50.760 --> 1:31:53.439 in a productive, positive way. And some of that also 1:31:53.680 --> 1:31:56.560 is going to require structural change and in you know, 1:31:56.680 --> 1:31:58.400 how are we going to ensure that these kids are 1:31:58.439 --> 1:31:59.880 going to be able to grow up and have family 1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:03.920 and have you know, productive lives and have a job 1:32:04.120 --> 1:32:07.120 that they could support their families with and enjoy the 1:32:07.160 --> 1:32:09.880 American dream as they've been told. I mean, we were 1:32:09.920 --> 1:32:12.679 all promised growing up, right, you know, go to college, 1:32:13.080 --> 1:32:15.000 you get a good you know, you get a good job, 1:32:15.160 --> 1:32:18.240 you'll you'll be good. Everything is good. And now that's 1:32:18.360 --> 1:32:20.720 not simply not what's happening in so many cases. So 1:32:20.760 --> 1:32:23.920 I think there's a bitterness that develops, and that bitterness 1:32:24.040 --> 1:32:28.120 is then you know, taken and weaponized for bad and 1:32:28.200 --> 1:32:29.760 I think we need to kind of figure out how 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:32.240 to you know, take that and put people back on 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:32.760 the right course. 1:32:32.920 --> 1:32:36.400 That's a good segue to my final question, which is, 1:32:37.320 --> 1:32:40.639 you know, you talk about empowering people, and I get 1:32:40.840 --> 1:32:45.720 very discouraged about the state of the country and disappointed 1:32:46.120 --> 1:32:49.840 and frustrated, and I'm curious. I like the idea, even 1:32:49.880 --> 1:32:53.040 though you know some of your YouTube things are like 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:57.000 these big bold letters like the video he doesn't want 1:32:57.080 --> 1:33:01.880 you to see, or pathetic meltdown, lock him up. You know, 1:33:02.040 --> 1:33:05.160 it's very kind of I like it. You're saying a 1:33:05.360 --> 1:33:08.360 slightly New York posty about it. To be honest with you, 1:33:08.479 --> 1:33:13.080 with the yellow almost like in your face graphics. But 1:33:14.520 --> 1:33:20.560 I'm curious if you're optimistic about the country, and what 1:33:20.840 --> 1:33:23.560 kind of words of encouragement can you give me and 1:33:23.760 --> 1:33:28.080 other people watching this or listening to this that we're 1:33:28.240 --> 1:33:32.080 going to be okay and democracy is not going to 1:33:32.160 --> 1:33:32.599 go away. 1:33:33.960 --> 1:33:36.840 I am hopeful. I am optimistic, and I think that 1:33:37.040 --> 1:33:43.240 the plan that Trump and Musk had was to pretty 1:33:43.320 --> 1:33:46.920 much control all levers of everything right now and really 1:33:47.080 --> 1:33:50.760 beat down any opposition and resistance. I think what we 1:33:50.920 --> 1:33:58.519 see right now in federal courts is judges appointed by Trump, Reagan, 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:04.559 George W. Bush on the due process questions. They made 1:34:04.600 --> 1:34:06.320 a lot of bad rulings on a lot of things, 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:10.360 but on the due process questions, all judges have said, 1:34:10.360 --> 1:34:12.920 at least as of now of this recording, there is 1:34:13.000 --> 1:34:16.640 something called due process. You have to go and follow it, 1:34:17.439 --> 1:34:20.560 and we do not live in an authoritarian country. And 1:34:20.680 --> 1:34:24.559 so federal judges on that question, by and large across 1:34:24.640 --> 1:34:27.800 the country are standing up to Donald Trump more significantly. 1:34:27.960 --> 1:34:28.160 Though. 1:34:28.320 --> 1:34:32.080 I think you see the protests, peaceful protests growing, I 1:34:32.120 --> 1:34:34.599 think that's a good sign. I think what we saw 1:34:34.680 --> 1:34:37.880 with the hands off protest No King's Day, I think 1:34:37.960 --> 1:34:42.240 that's going to continue to grow. And that gives me 1:34:42.320 --> 1:34:44.920 a lot of hope as well. And I think that 1:34:45.479 --> 1:34:47.800 I take a lot of hope that people are in 1:34:47.920 --> 1:34:53.400 the fight right now. I was worried that after the election, 1:34:54.320 --> 1:34:57.519 you saw a lot of people just for about too much, yeah, 1:34:57.600 --> 1:35:01.439 tune out and just didn't anything. I think that we 1:35:01.640 --> 1:35:06.599 now have a opposition and resistance that looks and feels 1:35:06.920 --> 1:35:10.760 even stronger than what we saw back in twenty seventeen, 1:35:10.880 --> 1:35:15.920 twenty eighteen. I think people have seen Trump's reckless on 1:35:16.120 --> 1:35:19.439 and off again tariffs and all of this rhetoric that 1:35:20.040 --> 1:35:22.719 you know, it's the same kind of pattern. He huffs 1:35:22.800 --> 1:35:27.000 and he puffs and does something that causes harm and 1:35:27.120 --> 1:35:30.719 then he withdraws from it and then declares that a victory. 1:35:31.479 --> 1:35:35.320 And there's still some news outlets that report these things 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:37.800 as victories. It's like he just is the arsonist who 1:35:37.920 --> 1:35:40.840 slightly put out a fire that he created, and now 1:35:40.920 --> 1:35:43.000 things are worse, and now he wants to declare that 1:35:43.320 --> 1:35:47.720 a victory. But I think that the publics that by 1:35:47.800 --> 1:35:49.439 and large is seeing that. 1:35:49.680 --> 1:35:52.680 I mean, Americans are smart, right, I mean a lot 1:35:52.760 --> 1:35:53.599 of them are smart. 1:35:53.720 --> 1:35:57.000 Yeah, And I think we see Trump's approval right now 1:35:57.600 --> 1:36:01.880 is basically the worst in presentidential history at this time, 1:36:02.000 --> 1:36:05.679 including his first term. As you look across the poles 1:36:05.760 --> 1:36:09.599 and so he still has that thirty five percent kind 1:36:09.640 --> 1:36:14.679 of MAGA floor plus are minus another five or six percent. 1:36:14.880 --> 1:36:17.559 So some poles at thirty nine, some at forty two. 1:36:17.960 --> 1:36:21.000 But by and large, I don't think people like hostile 1:36:21.120 --> 1:36:24.000 takeovers of the federal government. I think people want to 1:36:24.040 --> 1:36:26.880 feel safe going on airplanes and not have a transportation 1:36:27.040 --> 1:36:32.080 secretary kind of panic on TV about flights and staffing 1:36:32.200 --> 1:36:35.120 and try to blame other people. I think people see 1:36:35.400 --> 1:36:39.360 veterans getting fired and disrespected. I think people see education 1:36:39.560 --> 1:36:43.040 being gutted, and I think that people don't like that stuff. 1:36:43.160 --> 1:36:45.800 Women dying in parking lot, I think too absolutely. 1:36:46.000 --> 1:36:49.240 And I think that people saying, you know, you know, no, 1:36:49.680 --> 1:36:52.400 we're not okay with this, and that gives. 1:36:52.240 --> 1:36:53.880 Me, That gives me hope. 1:36:54.040 --> 1:36:57.280 Even slack divism, whati's so called, you know, sitting on 1:36:57.360 --> 1:37:00.680 your chairs and trying to do some thing which was 1:37:00.800 --> 1:37:03.840 derided for so long, I think is actually a pretty 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:07.720 good barometer of how people are feeling. You know, what 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:11.800 they're saying on social media, how they're commenting and what 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:14.800 they're watching, like the Midus network, right, you. 1:37:14.800 --> 1:37:16.720 Know percent Yeah, And then that's why we always say, 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:19.360 you know, do what you can, right. You don't have 1:37:19.520 --> 1:37:22.560 to go out there and build a media network, right, Like, 1:37:22.840 --> 1:37:25.360 that's not we're asking, right, But but if your thing 1:37:25.520 --> 1:37:28.280 is getting your messages out on social media by sending messages, 1:37:28.360 --> 1:37:30.439 do it like we're talking to a neighbor. I'm listening 1:37:30.479 --> 1:37:33.640 to a neighbor, right, do it. If you if you're 1:37:33.800 --> 1:37:37.200 a painter, paint right, like, whatever it is that you do, 1:37:38.040 --> 1:37:40.519 do it and use that to empower yourself. Also, I 1:37:40.560 --> 1:37:43.200 think one of the things that I also think about 1:37:43.360 --> 1:37:45.439 is just how much throughout history, and not even just 1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:48.479 American history, but in general, they are these big pendulum 1:37:48.520 --> 1:37:53.080 swings and they happen quickly, and you know, I think. 1:37:53.000 --> 1:37:55.519 I've never seen one happen quite this quick and clearly. 1:37:55.520 --> 1:37:57.160 That's what I was going to say. I've never seen 1:37:57.200 --> 1:37:59.200 it happen as quickly as we've seen it happen now, 1:37:59.280 --> 1:38:02.479 and even since Donald Trump took office to right now, 1:38:02.600 --> 1:38:06.080 I think we've also seen a tremendous pendulum swing kind 1:38:06.080 --> 1:38:09.200 of influx. As we are kind of all living in 1:38:09.280 --> 1:38:12.280 this moment, how this will end. When it will end, 1:38:12.400 --> 1:38:14.320 what it looks like when we're on the other side. 1:38:14.920 --> 1:38:17.040 You know, I don't know that history has not yet 1:38:17.120 --> 1:38:20.639 been written, but I know that the pendulum always does swing. 1:38:20.800 --> 1:38:22.720 It doesn't happen on its own, but you know, it 1:38:22.800 --> 1:38:25.200 happens by collective action. And you know a lot of 1:38:25.280 --> 1:38:27.840 people staying engaged and in the fight, but I know 1:38:28.000 --> 1:38:29.760 it will. And that's why when we speak about these 1:38:29.840 --> 1:38:32.840 fair weather you know, folks who change their opinion based 1:38:32.920 --> 1:38:34.920 on the way the wind is blowing, I think they 1:38:34.960 --> 1:38:37.000 may get caught on the wrong side of you know, 1:38:37.120 --> 1:38:40.719 that pendulum when things swing back to you know, people 1:38:41.320 --> 1:38:45.960 you know pushing forward on you know, inclusion, diversity, people 1:38:46.479 --> 1:38:49.920 championing you know, workers' rights, people championing you know, the 1:38:50.000 --> 1:38:53.200 ability for people to afford their you know, medication or 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:55.840 get their social security or whatever it is. I think 1:38:55.840 --> 1:38:59.280 there's a breaking point that society reaches, and I think 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:02.360 we've kind of did a a speed run, you know, 1:39:02.479 --> 1:39:04.599 to where we are right now, even a speed run 1:39:04.640 --> 1:39:06.280 to Trump and now a speed run kind of back 1:39:06.360 --> 1:39:08.800 as people are like, oh shit, maybe this wasn't the 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:09.880 best idea on the planet. 1:39:10.080 --> 1:39:10.360 I did. 1:39:10.479 --> 1:39:12.640 I did feel like Andy Basheer, who I don't know 1:39:12.680 --> 1:39:14.920 if you all talked about this, Ben, but he did 1:39:15.000 --> 1:39:18.320 have a good point about, you know, the Democrats and 1:39:19.160 --> 1:39:23.360 some progressives I think became a little too precious about 1:39:23.479 --> 1:39:29.840 words and about you know, shaming or judging or you know, 1:39:30.000 --> 1:39:34.040 being self righteous about framing certain issues to the point 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:36.960 where it was like a turnoff for a lot of people. 1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:39.720 Do you agree with that criticism, Well, I. 1:39:39.800 --> 1:39:43.840 Think ultimately, speak as people speak, you know, don't don't 1:39:43.880 --> 1:39:46.840 try to cook up phrases in a lab. Don't try 1:39:46.920 --> 1:39:50.840 to you know, come up with euphemisms for things, or 1:39:51.240 --> 1:39:53.439 you don't know, you know how many times people have also, 1:39:53.520 --> 1:39:55.040 you know, come to us you know what I think 1:39:55.080 --> 1:39:58.200 you should say, you know, like experts, maybe instead of 1:39:58.240 --> 1:40:00.960 saying the language this way, maybe should say it, you know, 1:40:01.200 --> 1:40:03.439 this other way. And I'm like, I've never heard somebody 1:40:03.520 --> 1:40:05.840 use that phrase in my life, though, Like I can't. 1:40:05.880 --> 1:40:07.560 I don't even know what you're talking about. Honestly, it 1:40:07.600 --> 1:40:08.840 sounds like mumbo jumbo, like. 1:40:08.800 --> 1:40:10.439 A breda tested point three percent. 1:40:10.760 --> 1:40:13.600 Yeah, this tested. I'm like, I don't even know what 1:40:13.680 --> 1:40:16.160 that means. So, yeah, I'm going to talk how I 1:40:16.200 --> 1:40:17.880 speak with my brothers and how I speak with my friends. 1:40:18.000 --> 1:40:20.120 Yeah, and I know you say what what you can 1:40:20.280 --> 1:40:22.760 have in a group chat right like, it's it's got 1:40:22.880 --> 1:40:26.120 to be sort of figured out that way, JORDI bring 1:40:26.240 --> 1:40:28.439 it home money I I I. 1:40:28.720 --> 1:40:30.479 Want to echo your point that you said just before. 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:34.840 Americans are spart Americans are resilient, and it's not going 1:40:34.920 --> 1:40:37.160 to be easy these next couple of years here, but 1:40:37.280 --> 1:40:40.960 democracy will prevail. I genuinely have hope. I know from 1:40:41.000 --> 1:40:42.720 the folks my age, I know where they're sinning that 1:40:43.000 --> 1:40:46.280 right now, and I know from you know, folks around 1:40:46.320 --> 1:40:48.680 Ben and Brett's age and then older, you know where 1:40:48.720 --> 1:40:52.519 they're sinning that. People love this country. This country is 1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:57.040 the greatest country in the world. Americans want this country 1:40:57.120 --> 1:40:59.800 to succeed. The world wants this country to succeed. And 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:01.479 we just have to put our heads down every single 1:41:01.560 --> 1:41:03.280 day and do the work and make sure that we 1:41:03.439 --> 1:41:05.600 leave this country better off, you know, not just for 1:41:05.720 --> 1:41:08.559 our kids, but for the next several generations of kids 1:41:08.800 --> 1:41:11.840 hundreds of years down the line, because that's how much 1:41:11.880 --> 1:41:12.800 this country means to us. 1:41:12.960 --> 1:41:15.080 And in the mouth of it, mauths of babes, right, 1:41:16.280 --> 1:41:17.519 you did he nail it? 1:41:17.600 --> 1:41:17.800 Or well? 1:41:17.960 --> 1:41:20.840 Yes, you nailed it. Nailed it. You guys ever fight 1:41:21.000 --> 1:41:23.120 by the way, do you ever get into the guards? 1:41:23.720 --> 1:41:28.800 Absolutely, but listen, it's not it's not like but they're 1:41:28.800 --> 1:41:31.040 not like you know, it's it's little things. Honestly, like 1:41:31.120 --> 1:41:32.320 we we don't all that much. 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:34.519 But you know, if do you like working together, it's 1:41:34.560 --> 1:41:34.880 the best. 1:41:34.960 --> 1:41:38.000 It's honestly, it's a dream like and I think always 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:40.120 growing up, like we always wanted to work together in 1:41:40.200 --> 1:41:42.320 some capacity, and like as kids, we would like make 1:41:42.400 --> 1:41:44.439 movies together, you know, we would make like little action 1:41:44.600 --> 1:41:47.200 movies or horror movies or mystery movies or whatever, and 1:41:47.479 --> 1:41:49.400 and that that would be like our way of working together. 1:41:49.400 --> 1:41:51.200 I would play sports like whatever it was. Again, we'd 1:41:51.200 --> 1:41:53.960 always love doing stuff together. Then there just became a time, 1:41:53.960 --> 1:41:56.679 it came in time in life where our age difference, 1:41:56.960 --> 1:41:59.599 you know, separate you, separates you naturally. You know, when 1:42:00.040 --> 1:42:02.240 when Ben's already in college and I'm just starting high 1:42:02.240 --> 1:42:04.360 school and Jordi's in middle school, you know whatever that is, 1:42:04.520 --> 1:42:06.599 or I'm a senior in high school, Jeordie's just starting, 1:42:06.880 --> 1:42:09.559 you know, as a freshman in high school. And luckily 1:42:09.600 --> 1:42:13.640 I set the stage to make sure everybody likes, you know, 1:42:13.760 --> 1:42:14.920 but there's always these kinds. 1:42:14.760 --> 1:42:16.360 Of and that you live up to Ben's. 1:42:17.880 --> 1:42:20.679 You know, school president and teachers. 1:42:22.200 --> 1:42:23.479 That's a ridiculous award. 1:42:23.720 --> 1:42:24.920 You wanted the real war. 1:42:26.360 --> 1:42:28.720 It was a teachers awards. 1:42:30.960 --> 1:42:35.840 Him. Yeah, it suck up him. Right here, let's focus 1:42:35.960 --> 1:42:36.759 on the student government. 1:42:39.240 --> 1:42:41.679 Well, I have to say this is especially the longest 1:42:41.760 --> 1:42:45.200 podcast I've ever done, but it felt like the shortest. 1:42:45.479 --> 1:42:48.479 Thank you guys so so much. This was such a 1:42:48.560 --> 1:42:52.000 fun conversation. I learned a lot and just really enjoyed 1:42:52.040 --> 1:42:53.960 getting to know all three of you. So thank you. 1:42:54.560 --> 1:42:56.800 It was great to be here. And you know, we 1:42:56.880 --> 1:42:58.320 did grow up watching you and. 1:43:00.200 --> 1:43:03.719 They are such massive myers of Yes, truly an honor. 1:43:03.840 --> 1:43:06.360 So for this to be, you know, the first show 1:43:06.400 --> 1:43:08.920 that we're actually in person on together. You know, it's 1:43:09.040 --> 1:43:11.840 it's not by accident and where we're really grateful, you know, 1:43:12.000 --> 1:43:13.840 for that, and we're just so thrilled to be here 1:43:13.880 --> 1:43:14.040 with you. 1:43:14.320 --> 1:43:16.360 Thank you, thank you. I'm not just saying that because 1:43:16.360 --> 1:43:19.320 I'm the teachers. I'm not trying to suck out you 1:43:19.360 --> 1:43:22.360 see how you want. I'm genuinely genuinely. 1:43:30.520 --> 1:43:33.479 Thanks for listening. Everyone. If you have a question for 1:43:33.680 --> 1:43:36.360 me a subject you want us to cover, or you 1:43:36.439 --> 1:43:39.080 want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this 1:43:39.240 --> 1:43:42.920 crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. 1:43:43.240 --> 1:43:46.160 I would love to hear from you. Next Question is 1:43:46.200 --> 1:43:50.480 a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive 1:43:50.520 --> 1:43:54.560 producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising 1:43:54.640 --> 1:43:58.960 producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio 1:43:59.360 --> 1:44:04.560 and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed art theme music. For 1:44:04.720 --> 1:44:07.720 more information about today's episode, or to sign up for 1:44:07.800 --> 1:44:10.920 my newsletter, wake Up Call, go to the description in 1:44:10.960 --> 1:44:14.479 the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:17.400 You can also find me on Instagram and all my 1:44:17.560 --> 1:44:22.160 social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 1:44:22.320 --> 1:44:26.439 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 1:44:26.479 --> 1:44:31.840 favorite shows. Hi everyone, it's Katie Couric. You know I'm 1:44:31.920 --> 1:44:35.400 always on the go between running my media company, hosting 1:44:35.479 --> 1:44:38.960 my podcast, and of course covering the news. 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