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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck.

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Speaker 3: It's just us.

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Speaker 2: There's no Jerry there maybe never was camp and this

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Speaker 2: is stuff you should know. Camp What Camp? Oh? Camp?

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Speaker 3: Inside joke?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jerry's at camp right now.

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Speaker 3: Can I do a quick CoA at the head here?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 3: The things we're going to be talking about today, folks,

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Speaker 3: Internet mysteries times three. There are a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who get very into this stuff, specifically you know, the

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Speaker 3: three things we're talking about, as with most Internet mysteries,

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Speaker 3: but we are certainly not going to get into it

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Speaker 3: in the detail that will satisfy you if this is

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Speaker 3: something that you have researched a lot have been super into,

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Speaker 3: because you know, they're getting about fifteen minutes apiece, and

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Speaker 3: you know, just give us a break. We're doing our

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Speaker 3: best to kind of cover it in a short amount

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Speaker 3: of time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I think that was a good CoA.

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Speaker 2: That was like a true bonafide CoA.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've answered the question that you're probably going

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Speaker 3: to want to email, which is how could you not

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Speaker 3: talk about blank?

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Speaker 2: Right exactly? We're going to talk about as much as

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Speaker 2: we can. And like you said, we got three amazing

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Speaker 2: unsolved mysteries of the Internet to discuss. There's plenty out there,

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Speaker 2: but in my book, these are probably the three best.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: Ooh, all right.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot out there, and I don't

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Speaker 2: I'm saying I'm excluding true crime obviously. These are just

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Speaker 2: oddities that have not been solved at this point, maybe

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Speaker 2: never will be solved, but probably could be at some point.

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Speaker 2: You never know.

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Speaker 3: Well, now we're just eating into our cicada.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk first, I guess, then yes, about Cicada

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Speaker 2: thirty three oh one, shall we?

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Speaker 3: Sure? This was a series of three puzzles that were

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Speaker 3: put out starting January fourth, twenty twelve, then a year later,

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Speaker 3: same date on the thirteenth, and then again same date

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Speaker 3: on the fourteenth on four Chan, and then eventually some

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Speaker 3: clues would come out on Twitter, but they were posted

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Speaker 3: online under the banner thirty three oh one and have

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Speaker 3: since become known as Cicada thirty three oho one because

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Speaker 3: many of the messages and clues ended up containing an

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Speaker 3: image of a cicada.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like a stylized line drawing of a cicada.

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Speaker 2: I've seen it compared very much to like the moth

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Speaker 2: on the Silence of the Lambs poster.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: Especially the first image had a cicada, and cicadas are

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Speaker 2: important because they come out every a certain number of years,

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Speaker 2: but those years are always prime numbers. It's very interesting.

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Speaker 2: And in that first message that they sent out, they

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Speaker 2: posted it on four Chan, and the post said, Hello,

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Speaker 2: we are looking for highly intelligent individuals. To find them,

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Speaker 2: we have devised a test. There is a message hidden

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Speaker 2: in this image. Find it and it will lead you

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Speaker 2: on the road to finding us. We look forward to

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Speaker 2: meeting the few that will make it all the way through.

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Speaker 2: Good luck. Cryptic, it was super cryptic, but it definitely

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Speaker 2: caught the attention of people. They posted it on the

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Speaker 2: right social media platform. Four Chan was a great one

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Speaker 2: to post it on to get the attention of people

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Speaker 2: who would want to do this, and the whole thing

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Speaker 2: spread pretty quickly. People have obviously immediately started trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out what the hidden message was. Staganography is what

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Speaker 2: it's called hiving a message inside something else, usually an image,

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Speaker 2: And it turns out there's all sorts of tools out

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Speaker 2: there on the Internet that you can use to decode

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Speaker 2: stuff like this, and some people just kind of said

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Speaker 2: about getting busy with it as some people.

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Speaker 3: Say, yeah, and one of those kids, I assume you

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Speaker 3: read the Rolling Stone article or no.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think so. No, not for

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Speaker 2: this one.

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Speaker 3: Okay, they had a really big, super long one that

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Speaker 3: talked to two of the guys who were teenagers at

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Speaker 3: the time, who were the I mean, I think probably

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Speaker 3: some of the first people that solved it. I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to go on record and say the first, but

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Speaker 3: one guy would only go by tech t e KK

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Speaker 3: and another guy's name was Marcus Wanner and they would

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Speaker 3: eventually hook up online. But initially this kid tech as

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Speaker 3: a fifteen year old, learned that when he copied that

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Speaker 3: image as a text document and notepad that you got

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Speaker 3: what you would expect, which is a wall of text,

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Speaker 3: but part of it was readable text that said Tiber

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Speaker 3: Claudius Caesar says, and then it had a bunch of

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Speaker 3: alphanumeric text. He knew that the Caesar cipher is one

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Speaker 3: of the oldest ciphers, one of the oldest kinds of encryption,

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Speaker 3: which is a substitution cipher, where like this, I don't

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Speaker 3: know if the Caesar was literally as one bs two,

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Speaker 3: but you can apply it to different you know, numbers,

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Speaker 3: And he knew that Caesar was the fourth emperor, so

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Speaker 3: he substituted four letters down from each of the letters

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Speaker 3: that followed and discovered a hidden message. Yeah, a website in.

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Speaker 2: Fact, Yeah, that was the thing. So one of the

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Speaker 2: reasons why the Cicada thirty three to h one puzzles

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Speaker 2: captured the attention of some really smart and capable people

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Speaker 2: is because they were multi layered. Like if you wanted

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Speaker 2: to unlock one puzzle, you had to kind of go

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Speaker 2: off over here and unlock a couple of other puzzles

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Speaker 2: to unlock the key that you would take back to

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Speaker 2: unlock the first puzzle. Essentially, it was multi layered, multi

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Speaker 2: step process. And this was no exception to it that

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Speaker 2: that that cipher that you had to decode from the

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Speaker 2: first image took you to a website, I guess an

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Speaker 2: imager image of a duck that just said only decoys

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Speaker 2: over here, and so you would think you just went

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Speaker 2: were sent intentionally done a blind alley. No, there was

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Speaker 2: another hidden message in there, even though it didn't say

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Speaker 2: that there was one, and so people would decipher that

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Speaker 2: it turned out that there was an encoded book. Uh.

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Speaker 2: And then you could also find a link to a

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Speaker 2: subreddit and there were more passages from that book, and

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Speaker 2: it turned out that book was a Welsh ar theory

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Speaker 2: and legend. And another reddit post contained some Mayan numerals

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Speaker 2: that you had to decode. That became a key that

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Speaker 2: you could use to analyze the Arthurian legend with. And

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Speaker 2: then you got another solution or another hint I guess

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Speaker 2: to use from that point on. And what it said

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Speaker 2: when you use that that that key to decode the

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Speaker 2: Arthurian legend, it said, Hey, here's a phone number, give

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Speaker 2: us a call.

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Speaker 3: Yes, all this to say that some super smart nerdy

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Speaker 3: people were doing some super smart nerdy stuff. Yeah, having

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Speaker 3: a good time figuring this stuff out. And when they

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Speaker 3: eventually got that phone number and called it, they got

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Speaker 3: a message that said, very good, you have done well.

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Speaker 3: There are three prime numbers associated with the original JPEG image.

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Speaker 3: Thirty three oh one is one of them. You will

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Speaker 3: have to find the other two. Then multiply all three

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Speaker 3: of these numbers together and add a dot com at

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Speaker 3: the end to find the next step. Good luck, goobye.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I didn't read the Rolling Stone profile, but

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Speaker 2: another solver I think he was profiled in a National

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Speaker 2: Poster or Telegraph article the same is Joel Erickson. He

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Speaker 2: was from Sweden. I'm not sure how old he was

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Speaker 2: at the time, but he figured out that probably the

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Speaker 2: other prime numbers were the dimensions of that image five

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Speaker 2: hundred and nine pixels by five hundred and three pixels,

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Speaker 2: and it turned out he was right. So he multiplied

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Speaker 2: all those that took the answer, put a dot com

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Speaker 2: on the end, and it took him to a website

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Speaker 2: that had a countdown clock and a picture of a cicada,

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Speaker 2: so he knew he was at the right spot. He'd

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Speaker 2: multiplied correctly and guessed correctly, and when that clock finished

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Speaker 2: counting down, the website updated and there were a bunch

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Speaker 2: of GPS coordinates that were posted.

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Speaker 3: All of a sudden, Yeah, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: it's had fined our symbol at the location nearest to you. So,

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, this thing jumped from the Internet

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Speaker 3: out into the real world with real physical coordinates, and

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Speaker 3: it turned into kind of a scavenger hunt. There were

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Speaker 3: fourteen telephone poles all around the world America France, Japan, Poland, Russia,

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Speaker 3: Spain and other places, and all of a sudden, like

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Speaker 3: you would, I mean, if you could afford to and

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Speaker 3: had the time, I guess you would go to the

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Speaker 3: one closest to you find that telephone pole flyer and

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Speaker 3: that had a QR code it again with a picture

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Speaker 3: of that cicada, and that led to another cicada image

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Speaker 3: with another riddle, and this one contained some poetry. I

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Speaker 3: think it was from cyberpunk writer William William Gibson's poem

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Speaker 3: Agrippa that was from nineteen ninety two. And if you

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Speaker 3: applied the key that they originally came up with to

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Speaker 3: that poem, it led to another puzzle that would eventually

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Speaker 3: lead to a website. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the website was the end. And so there's the guy.

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Speaker 2: Joel Erickson made it to the website. By the time

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Speaker 2: he got there, it had been shut down for a

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Speaker 2: couple of reasons. One I think it was shut down

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Speaker 2: a little under a month, and I guess they had

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Speaker 2: posted on that website that they were disappointed that some

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Speaker 2: people were collaborating, and they said they wanted the best,

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Speaker 2: not followers, so they stopped the game. But apparently in

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Speaker 2: the meantime they had some people had solved it and

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Speaker 2: gotten to the site, because a month later on that

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Speaker 2: reddit subreddit that they've been posting Arthurian legends and mining

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Speaker 2: codes on, they said, we found the intelligent individuals we

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Speaker 2: were looking for, right, So, but the fact that Joel

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Speaker 2: Erickson made it to that site, that was it, Like

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Speaker 2: he solved everything. He's considered a solver. He just got

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Speaker 2: there too late because he heard about this after other

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Speaker 2: people who started before him did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like Marcus Wanner and tech exactly.

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Speaker 2: And Marcus Wanner is one of the few people who's

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Speaker 2: known to have made it past that site or gotten

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Speaker 2: to that site within the timeframe the alloted timeframe, and

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Speaker 2: actually was in communication with the people who were behind

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Speaker 2: Cicida thirty three to ZHO one. He still has no

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Speaker 2: idea exactly what they were doing or what they wanted,

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Speaker 2: but based on the interview that they subjected into and

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Speaker 2: some of the interactions he had with them, he guess

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Speaker 2: that they are some sort of hacker collective that is

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Speaker 2: very much interested in promoting internet privacy and internet freedom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like they may have been looking for

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Speaker 3: code breakers, because they gave him a private test of

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Speaker 3: creating a decryption mechanism right, and he failed that, I guess,

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Speaker 3: or wasn't able to do it, so they, you know,

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Speaker 3: they got rid of him.

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Speaker 2: I had the impression he blew it off.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, I saw that he didn't wasn't able to

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he just didn't deliver the goods. But I for

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Speaker 2: some reason, one of the readings I had about him,

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Speaker 2: it just made it sound like he was just like

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Speaker 2: he lost interest. Maybe I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Oh interesting. So to be clear, I believe what we

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Speaker 3: just described was just that first puzzle, right, and you know,

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Speaker 3: we don't have the time to get into the rest

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Speaker 3: of the puzzles. And I don't think I think the

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Speaker 3: first two were solved. I don't think anyone ever solved

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Speaker 3: the third really before they permanently just removed every reference

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Speaker 3: to it. I think about a month after that final

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Speaker 3: puzzle was removed, they did post a message on four

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Speaker 3: Chan once again that said we have now found the

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Speaker 3: individuals we sought, sort of like that original message. Thus

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Speaker 3: our month long journey ends. You're undoubtedly wondering what it

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Speaker 3: is that we do. We are much like a think tank,

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Speaker 3: and that our primary focus is on researching and developing

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Speaker 3: techniques to aid the ideas we advocate liberty, privacy, security.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could tell it was written by a

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Speaker 2: computer person because there's like very little punctuation and lots

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Speaker 2: of run ons and all that, so it seems legit.

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Speaker 2: It checks out.

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Speaker 3: So who is it an SA or CIA or somebody.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people say that that it was an

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Speaker 2: elaborate scheme to recruit, you know, cybersecurity people and hackers

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Speaker 2: from like the dark reaches of the Internet. Somebody said

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Speaker 2: that doesn't really make sense because they posted on four

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Speaker 2: Chan and this was the era of Snowden, so they

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Speaker 2: probably wouldn't have wanted people from four Chan at the time.

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Speaker 2: That's not true. Leaked in twenty thirteen, and the first

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Speaker 2: puzzle was twenty twelve, so it's possible it was the government.

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Speaker 2: Entirely possible, but there were some other aspects of the

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Speaker 2: whole contest that suggests it might have been otherwise, Although

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Speaker 2: some of this seems to have been purposely deliberately misleading, right,

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Speaker 2: Like there was a poster named Wind from Michigan and

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Speaker 2: she was kind of joining in like these this collaborations

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Speaker 2: on different sites until somebody figured out that she seemed

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Speaker 2: to deliberately be giving out misleading information. And then there

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Speaker 2: was a claim on Pastebin from a somebody who said

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Speaker 2: that they were an ex Cicada member, that they were

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Speaker 2: a military officer from a non English speaking country that

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Speaker 2: had been recruited by a superior and that he said

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Speaker 2: Cicado is actually a left hand path religion disguised as

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Speaker 2: a progressive scientific organization, and that it was comprised of

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Speaker 2: very smart people who weren't happy with the way the

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Speaker 2: world was going, so they wanted to trasform humanity into

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Speaker 2: the Nietzschean uber minch.

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Speaker 3: Well, I did see stuff about religion. I saw some

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Speaker 3: people positive that it was Julian Assange there. I mean,

256
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Speaker 3: there's all kinds of fun theories out there on who

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Speaker 3: it might have been. I think the one thing is

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Speaker 3: pretty clear it I feel really, really strongly that it

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Speaker 3: probably wasn't just some like somebody having fun doing some

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Speaker 3: cool scavenger hunt mystery puzzle thing on the internet, like

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Speaker 3: it seemed like it was probably some kind of legit recruitment.

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Speaker 2: I agree, But I think my money's on a hacker collective,

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Speaker 2: whether white hat or black hat, I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: a group of hackers.

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Speaker 3: Does that mean good guys are bad guys?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I don't know all this terminology.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's pretty straightforward. You know, you can

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Speaker 2: guess you just did.

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Speaker 3: All right, there you go? Did I pacitize?

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Speaker 2: You did? You made it onto the next riddle?

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Speaker 3: Did you just text me a wooden duck?

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Speaker 2: That's right? Just here, I say, we take a break.

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Speaker 2: Can we move on to the next mystery of the Internet?

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Speaker 2: How about that?

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Speaker 3: Oh, tension builds.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you should know, Josh, And shock stuff you should know.

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Speaker 3: All right, So mystery number two, and I'm shocked. I've

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Speaker 3: never heard of this one as a music guy. Had

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Speaker 3: you ever heard of it?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I don't remember exactly where, but I'd never really

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Speaker 2: researched it until we started researching this. So for all

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Speaker 2: intents and purposes, not really.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we're gonna be talking about what's become known as

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Speaker 3: the most mysterious song on the Internet. And this was

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Speaker 3: a song that sometime between eighty two and eighty four

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Speaker 3: a guy named Darius s recorded in Germany on the

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Speaker 3: north coast, the coast of Germany.

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Speaker 2: Josh, there's no such thing. I mean, some sort of

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Speaker 2: landlocked border.

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Speaker 3: I think I think so reference to Old Bearer by

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Speaker 3: the way. But yeah, this guy did what all of

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00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 3: us did in the early eighties, as we would sit

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Speaker 3: around listen to the radio and record songs from the

295
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Speaker 3: radio onto our cassette deck so we could take them

296
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Speaker 3: on the road with us. And he was doing this.

297
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Speaker 3: Had a big mixtape of all these things from you know,

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Speaker 3: the people that you would expect to hear from in

299
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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four, about twenty five of them. He wasn't

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Speaker 3: sure who the songs were, and it sounds like he

301
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Speaker 3: figured out who all of those songs came from. Save one.

302
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, I don't. I think that was

303
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 2: the only one that he did never figure out. He

304
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Speaker 2: called those unknown ones his unknown pleasures. A joy Division

305
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Speaker 2: reference right, because most of this music was post punk

306
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Speaker 2: new waves. And this song, this most mysterious song on

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Speaker 2: the internet, is no exception. It sounds like a Rolling

308
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 2: Stone writer put it. It has a rigid beat and

309
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,919
Speaker 2: dry monotone vocals and sounds like a synthpop hit you

310
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Speaker 2: would have heard in a dance club in the eighties,

311
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Speaker 2: which is true, like all of that is true, But

312
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Speaker 2: it also it has like a strong guitar riff like

313
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Speaker 2: early Joy Division. It kind of has a little bit

314
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 2: of that, but it's also more produced than that, and

315
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,360
Speaker 2: the vocals, the lyrics and the vocals are incomprehensible except

316
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 2: in little snippets that you hear just enough that to me,

317
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,679
Speaker 2: the fact that you can't fully understand what the person's

318
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Speaker 2: saying and it's so open to interpretation, I think that's

319
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Speaker 2: what starts to suck people in the most.

320
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Probably so. The only thing I'll disagree with about

321
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Speaker 3: the Rolling Stone is that it sounded like a hit.

322
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Speaker 3: I don't think the song's very good.

323
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Speaker 2: Oh really, I find it I wouldn't say good, but

324
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Speaker 2: I find it definitely catchy.

325
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Speaker 3: I mean, it's okay, and I have been walking around

326
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Speaker 3: singing it, and so it must be a little catchy.

327
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Speaker 3: But compared to the music of that era, and this

328
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Speaker 3: is just my dumb opinion, I think it sounds like

329
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Speaker 3: what I think it is, which was a fairly amateurish

330
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Speaker 3: Eastern Bloc person recording a song. Okay, it sounded a

331
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Speaker 3: little bit like, you know, the rest of the music

332
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Speaker 3: of the era.

333
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Speaker 2: So the thing is, I don't know if we've said

334
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 2: entirely yet, no one on the planet seems to know

335
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: what the song is, what the name of the song is,

336
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Speaker 2: or who the artist is, who created this, what the

337
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 2: band is or the solo arts whoever, not a single

338
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 2: person on the planet, And you might be like, well,

339
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Speaker 2: you know, maybe you just haven't looked deep enough. Wrong.

340
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 2: People have looked into the depths of nineteen eighties Germany

341
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Speaker 2: using all sorts of different tools to analyze the song digitally.

342
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Speaker 2: I mean, like, people have really dug into this. And

343
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Speaker 2: the other thing about it that makes it so impressive

344
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 2: that it remains mysterious is that people have been searching

345
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 2: for who made this song since for twenty ten. Let's

346
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,360
Speaker 2: tell them about that story, shall.

347
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Speaker 3: We, Yeah, you mentioned using you know, modern tools. One

348
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 3: of the one of the mysteries from Darius was he

349
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Speaker 3: was like, I guess, in this German accent, which I'm

350
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 3: not gonna try good said, I'm not even sure you

351
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Speaker 3: know for sure that I taped it from this program

352
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,879
Speaker 3: on the in day oar Heintz station in Germany, the

353
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 3: music for young people program that he listened to. He's like,

354
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: because I recorded stuff from other stations and other programs.

355
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 3: But they have since proven that proven that basically using

356
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 3: spectrogram analysis, they actually pinpointed it and said, no, there

357
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 3: was a ten kilohertz line that this station used as

358
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,160
Speaker 3: like a modulation scheme that isn't found on other stations.

359
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 3: And they found that that modulation line in that song.

360
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 3: So there was like, at least we know it was

361
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,160
Speaker 3: definitely from Inda our hes.

362
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 2: Right, So they figured that out. They also figured out

363
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 2: that it was at least from nineteen eighty four because

364
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 2: the technics deck is it technics are techniques.

365
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 3: I always said techniques, but who knows? That may have

366
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 3: been wrong.

367
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,199
Speaker 2: Okay, the tape deck made by technics or techniques, you know,

368
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 2: the brand that he was using to record off the

369
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 2: radio wasn't made until nineteen eighty four, and you might think, well, okay,

370
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 2: it could be nineteen eighty five eighty six. The song,

371
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 2: the other songs that are on this tape, which are

372
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Speaker 2: known as Cassette four, were songs from XSTC The Cure.

373
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 2: I could not, for life of me find what songs

374
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 2: they were, but everybody seems to be satisfied that these

375
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: ecstasy songs and Cure songs and other songs that were

376
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 2: played on that were recorded on the same tape came

377
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 2: out in nineteen eighty four or right before nineteen eighty four.

378
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 2: So the guess is that this this was taped off

379
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 2: of the radio between nineteen eighty three and nineteen eighty four.

380
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what, there's people that have time

381
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 3: on their hand in technological wherewith all that we don't have,

382
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 3: I'm calling on somebody somewhere to find and make a

383
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 3: playlist of cassette four and put it on your whatever

384
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,479
Speaker 3: your favorite streamer is.

385
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't believe it's not out there.

386
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 3: Actually, I bet that's a bangin playlist.

387
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: I'll bet it is too. So back to the story,

388
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 2: the initial story of where this all came from. Darius,

389
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: he apparently was content with just putting a question mark

390
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: next to the song or in the song's place on

391
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: the track listing on the cassette, but his sister was

392
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: not satisfied with that. His sister, Lydia, who just goes

393
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: by Lydia h in this Rolling Stone interview, she always

394
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 2: really wanted to know who made this song. I don't

395
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: know if obsession is the right word, but it was

396
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 2: certainly something that drove her to some extent, and as

397
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 2: the Internet kind of blossomed and grew, I think in

398
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: starting in two thousand and seven, she started sharing it

399
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: on the Internet. There's a couple of sites that she

400
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: put it posted it on initially, one a Canadian site,

401
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: another German site that are kind of the crowdsource people

402
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 2: to say what song is this? And that was the

403
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: start of baffling internet users with this song.

404
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's where I would have expected an answer

405
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 3: if there was one. It's on YouTube. You can listen

406
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 3: to it. They people on YouTube and other places to

407
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 3: have tried to decipher the lyrics as best they can.

408
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 3: It seems pretty clear that it's probably a foreign or

409
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: at least, you know, a non American speaker foreign to us.

410
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: But people are pretty sure it's in English.

411
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 3: No, it's definitely in English. Okay, I mean, I think

412
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 3: it's clearly in English. Great are people debating that?

413
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: No?

414
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 3: I don't think. Okay, you can't get all the words.

415
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: You can get a lot of them. Like the Wind

416
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 3: is the title that a lot of people have put

417
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 3: on it, because you know, the very beginning of the song,

418
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: it's like the wind. But is it I don't even

419
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 3: know if it's saying like the wind. It almost sounds

420
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 3: like something again, but I can't even tell that part Yeah.

421
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 2: So there's a bunch of names for the song, which

422
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: the official generic name for it is TMS the Mysterious

423
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: Song or the most Mysterious song on the Internet, but

424
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: people call it blind the Wind, locked away. Some people

425
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 2: think that's what he's saying instead of like the wind.

426
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: I can hear it actually, as a matter of fact,

427
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: and I can't remember what the line is, but there's

428
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 2: other lines in there that make it sound like he

429
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: is talking about being locked up. Check it in, check

430
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: it out, take it in, take it out, disco woman.

431
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different names for this song based

432
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: on what people think this guy is saying, because no

433
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: one can say what the lyrics are. No one knows.

434
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: You can't do it, and it's beware there because there's

435
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: madness that way. If you really start paying attention and

436
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what the lyrics are, friend, you

437
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: are going to end up with a new hobby you

438
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: may or may not want.

439
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they've gotten in touch with that original DJ who said,

440
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know what that song was. I

441
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 3: certainly don't remember playing it, no recollection of it whatsoever.

442
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: This was a time, obviously, when Germany was split in

443
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 3: half or maybe not technically half by the Cold War,

444
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: and you know, the DJ DJs were like, you know,

445
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: we would get like tapes thrown over the wall at

446
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 3: us that we didn't even know what they were, but

447
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: they were they were just music that people wanted us

448
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: to hear and play. Here's my theory, Okay, Ockham's Razor Man.

449
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: It's a song that someone made and they died, and

450
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: no one knew they made it.

451
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: I guess that is probably the simplest solution. Yes, it's

452
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: just no one, no one knowing that that person made,

453
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: no one recognizing that person's voice. I mean, this is widespread, Yeah,

454
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: and it's possible just the right person hasn't heard it yet.

455
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I kind of tend to agree

456
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: with you. I think that's probably what happened. It was

457
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 2: an obscure East German or Eastern Bloc musician who managed

458
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: to get their tape out. And I mean that's not unprecedented.

459
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: Tapes went both ways through the Iron Curtain during the

460
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: Cold War. There's a really great documentary called Chuck Norris

461
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: Versus Communism that came out in twenty fifteen, and it's

462
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: about how people smuggling in American action movies into Romania.

463
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: They think essentially led to the downfall of Nikolai Chuchescu

464
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: and his regime because people kind of saw how life

465
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: could be. Isn't that amazing?

466
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 3: Yeah? Did Chuck Norris win?

467
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? He won because there's no more communism in Romania

468
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: as far as I know.

469
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: Do you know what would be great? I mean, I'm

470
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: fifty three years old, I'm in way into music, and

471
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 3: I've gone down some rabbit holes about music. I had

472
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 3: never heard of this before this week. Like, you know,

473
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: maybe the person who made it literally has never heard

474
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: this whole mystery. In that year, someone's like, hey, that

475
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 3: was me.

476
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: I know. I think that a lot of people would

477
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: be really sad and when that happened.

478
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, then just keep it to yourself, buddy. If that's

479
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: the case, everyone likes a mystery a little bit more.

480
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: So, let's talk about a couple of couple more things

481
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: that people have done for this investigation. I mean, you

482
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 2: said spectography, right, am I saying that correctly?

483
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: I don't know spectrograph Yeah, spectrography.

484
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: I think so it sounds right, jeez. So in addition

485
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: to that people, and in addition to getting in touch

486
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: with Paul Baskerville, the DJ who hosted that show in

487
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four. People have gotten in touch with the

488
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: archivist at that radio station and gotten a full list

489
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: of playlists for every single episod of that radio show.

490
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: This song does not turn up on it. Don't forget, though.

491
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 2: They've proven that it was played on this radio station.

492
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: So they started looking at playlists for other radio shows.

493
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 2: They've gotten a substantial number of them. Still hasn't turned

494
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: up on any playlist anything that could be this song.

495
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: And then someone else essentially pinned the song in between

496
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three and nineteen eighty four because they believe

497
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: that the synthesizer that was used was a specific type

498
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: of Yamaha a DX seven that was not available until

499
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. In that nuts that people have done all.

500
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 3: This, That one's the most believable because that's just how

501
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: keyboard nerds are.

502
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: But sure, yeah, I just think that's super cool that

503
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: people have just tried all of this different stuff and

504
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: it still is just not budging. It will not budge.

505
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. And again, if that guy's out there, just you know,

506
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: let that be your own little secret. And maybe that's

507
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: the case. Maybe this person knows this and they just

508
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: think this is awesome. And you know who knows that's

509
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 3: why it's a great mystery.

510
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: His friends and family are like, why are you always

511
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 2: tittering to yourself? It's so weird?

512
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 3: Why are you talking about the Wind?

513
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: So if you haven't heard the song, it's worth going

514
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: to check out. Just look up the most mysterious song

515
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 2: on the Internet and you will find it, for sure,

516
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: although you can also look up like the Wind and

517
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 2: mysterious and all that stuff and it'll turn it up.

518
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And to be clear, I don't think it's like

519
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: a bad song. I just think it's not like is

520
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: it didn't become a big hit for a reason.

521
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think hit is a little overly generous too.

522
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 2: I'm with you. But you could still have turned it

523
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: at like an eighties club on like bish wave night,

524
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: for sure.

525
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was plenty of worse music than this then.

526
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: Or sure, but there was also a lot of really

527
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: good music too, like the Wind.

528
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 3: A Way Disco Girl.

529
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I think we reached the end of the

530
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: most Mysterious song on the Internet. That our second of

531
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: our three mysteries of the Internet, And we'll take a

532
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: message break we'll come back and we will reveal the

533
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: third after this stuff.

534
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: You should know, Josh and shock stuff. You should know.

535
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: We're back, and you know, dude, this could be a

536
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: whole other show for us. Just three mysteries per week,

537
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes of pop.

538
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: You like that, huh? I don't know.

539
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: It's kind of fun.

540
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: Careful way you say this, Do you have time on

541
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: your hands like that?

542
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: No? No, no, I quit my other show for a reason.

543
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: You as well.

544
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: We need to edit that part out, man. I don't

545
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: want the wrong people to hear that and be like, hey,

546
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: that's a great idea.

547
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: All right, take it away, my friend.

548
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: Oh okay, here we got. We're talking about what, in

549
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: my opinion, is one of the top three great mysteries

550
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: of the Internet. Yeah, I think I agree, the Mystery

551
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: of John Tider. I believe that's how it's pronounced. I've

552
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: only ever seen it written down. I've never heard anybody

553
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: say it out loud. But I've heard that name for

554
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: a long time. Because this is an ancient Internet mystery,

555
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: and as a matter of fact, it turns out it

556
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: seems to pre date essentially the Internet, or at the

557
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: very least it was. It finds its origin off the

558
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: Internet through fax machines and the radio no less.

559
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is another one that a lot of

560
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 3: people have gotten really into. Like I went on Reddit

561
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: and was kind of looking at some stuff, and it

562
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: broke my brain such that I was like, all right,

563
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: we're gonna we're gonna do our best to give a

564
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 3: little overview here.

565
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think something about the the most mysterious song

566
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: on the Internet. It seems far more wholesome and less

567
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: dark for some reason, getting sucked into the John Tider

568
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: mystery seems like you could really just go crazy essentially.

569
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: Well, the first one was either like I six or CIA,

570
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 3: this one is possible time traveler in Civil war, and

571
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 3: the middle one was like a cool synthpop hit.

572
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's just tell him a little bit about

573
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: John Tighter. Okay. John Tighter is a Internet based that

574
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 2: no one's ever seen or spoken to him in real

575
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: life poster who claimed to be a time traveler from

576
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: the year twenty thirty six in America, an America that

577
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: had been racked, like you said, by civil war that

578
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: had gone on for a while but was ended by

579
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: World War three, which presumably that brought America together again

580
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 2: and that it seems like the American economy has completely

581
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: collapsed and everybody's much more family and local community centered.

582
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: Andy said that the average day in the life in

583
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: twenty thirty six outside Tampa, Florida, where he's from, is

584
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: like a day on the farm, and you might be like, wow,

585
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 2: that's pretty descriptive. That is the tip of the iceberg

586
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: of the information that John tier willingly gave out as

587
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: a time traveler on the Internet starting in nineteen ninety

588
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: seven or eight, and then in two thousand again.

589
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said the US had been divided into five

590
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: zones and that time travel had been invented, had been

591
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: invented two years previous, in twenty thirty four. But let's

592
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 3: back up to where this started, because it all started in,

593
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: like you said, pre internet, in a very kind of

594
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: unlikely way, I think, by somebody sending a couple of

595
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 3: faxes to a radio show Art Bells Coast to Coast

596
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: AM and this was read on the air, and then

597
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: a couple of years later posted basically the same thing

598
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 3: online on the Time Travel Institute site, which is a

599
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: site that's been around since ninety seven dedicated to temporal sciences,

600
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 3: and the user's name was time travel under scre or zero.

601
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: So like we said, time traveler from the future and

602
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: started saying things like, you know, there were six components

603
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 3: to the time machine. That was an onoard or on

604
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: board caesium clocks, twin micro singularities which are tiny, very

605
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: tiny black holes, that he traveled using a stationary mass

606
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: temporal displacement unit powered by two topspin dual positive singularities,

607
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 3: producing a typical offset tiplar sinusoid. And it was put

608
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: in the back of a sixty six corvette. Yeah, very

609
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: back to the part that gets me very back to

610
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: the future.

611
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: The thing about John Tier and the posts that he

612
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: posted are that this stuff that is this what sounds

613
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: like gibberish is actually not at all made up. For example,

614
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: a tiplar sinusoid refers to a theoretical type of time

615
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: travel that was proposed in the seventies by physicists named

616
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: Frank Tipler, and he essentially figured out mathematically that if

617
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: you could take two huge masses many times denser than

618
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: the sun, say two black holes, and pull them out,

619
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 2: spaghettify them essentially, and then spin them really fast like

620
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: billions of rotations a second, you would what you would

621
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: do is essentially pull open space time and open essentially

622
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: a portal to somewhere in the future, possibly somewhere in

623
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: the past, possibly galaxies away from where you started. And

624
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: again this is hypothetical theoretical, but this is not something

625
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 2: that the average person is walking around in their head

626
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: like that. The Tiplar sinusoid exists. So I'm just impressed that.

627
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: And that's just another example where if you put all

628
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: this stuff together and all of the how different and

629
00:34:52,800 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 2: complementary and very infrequently contradictory. The the information that John

630
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: tier gave out was it's I see how some people

631
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: who believe that time travel is possible consider John Tighter

632
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 2: an actual time traveler. Okay, I don't, but I could

633
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: see how people do. It's just so convincing, Like the

634
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 2: stuff he says is so convincing, and he seems to

635
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 2: have no agenda whatsoever. That's the other thing.

636
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: I'm not so sure about that part. But he would

637
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: go on to talk you know again, you know, he

638
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: was a US soldier in Tampa living on a river

639
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: in a treehouse, and said that he was there on

640
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 3: an official mission. He was supposed to he was, you know,

641
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 3: sent back in time by his I guess the army

642
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: or the US government. But he stopped off for a

643
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 3: personal personal reasons in two thousand, basically to get family

644
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: pictures that were lost during the Civil War, mementos, to

645
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: visit his family, that kind of thing, right, But the

646
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: official mission that he was sent back for, supposedly by

647
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: the federal government, was to go back to Minnesota in

648
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five to get an IBM fifty one hundred,

649
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:16,439
Speaker 3: which was the first portable computer. And his grandfather supposedly

650
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 3: worked on developing this thing, and so that's why he

651
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 3: was sent back to get this computer so they could

652
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: debug legacy computer programs that they you know, they were

653
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: obsolete and they couldn't work with anymore because they didn't

654
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 3: have this old working computer.

655
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 2: Right, and what the So that's cool, that's an obscure computer. Again,

656
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: most people aren't walking around with awareness that the IBM

657
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: fifty one hundred ever existed. But even more than that,

658
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: John Tiger said that the reason they wanted a fifty

659
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: one hundred is because it had a specific unique component

660
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: to it. It apparently could run other programs written for

661
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: like those huge mainframes, and that that was the reason

662
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: they needed it in the future and that IBM had

663
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 2: actually kept us quiet. And it turns out that's true.

664
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 2: The I think the Rochester, Minnesota Post Bulletin got in

665
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: touch with one of their local residents who worked on

666
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: the IBM fifty one hundred in the mid seventies, who confirmed, like,

667
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: that's absolutely true. There was this little quirk that was

668
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: peculiar to the fifty one hundred, and IBM did not

669
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 2: publicize this at all. So it's just so bizarre that

670
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: this person knew that and that that was the reason

671
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 2: that they were sent back into the future. I mean,

672
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: come on, dude, Like, think about how creative that is

673
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: if the guy's just a hoaxter.

674
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he goes on to and this is a

675
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: very key thing is he went on to say, by

676
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 3: the way, the mini World's theory of physics is correct,

677
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 3: which means that you know, for every possible different outcome,

678
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 3: the universe splits into different versions to accommodate those outcomes.

679
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 3: He's like, that's all true. So the fact that I'm

680
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 3: saying he didn't say this part, but the fact that

681
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 3: he talks about the George W. Bush election sewing discord

682
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: and there being an uprising in a civil war in

683
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 3: the two thousands. The fact that none of that happened,

684
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 3: he said, that's just because that I went back in

685
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 3: time and changed the outcome. So basically, anything I say,

686
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: you can't prove wrong.

687
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: That's one part of it. Yes, he was saying, like,

688
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: because his very presence would change it, and that he

689
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: came from a different timestream himself. The other implication of

690
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: that is that he can't possibly create a paradox. Even

691
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 2: going and visiting his family and I read his three

692
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: year old self in two thousand would not create a

693
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: paradox because he comes from a different timestream, did not

694
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: exist in this timestream until he hopped over to it,

695
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 2: So there's no paradox for him being there and meeting

696
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 2: him himself as a younger kid. Right again, Really genius

697
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: details that. So I feel like I'm coming off like

698
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: I'm trying to convince listeners to believe that this is real.

699
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 2: That's not the case. If you do believe it's real, great.

700
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: I'm just so thoroughly impressed with the creativity behind every

701
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: component and facet of what John Tyder said that it's

702
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: just I'm just in awe agog even you could say.

703
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 3: So as the thing gained steam over the years, he

704
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 3: finally eventually made a post in March two thousand and

705
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 3: one that said, this is you know, the last post

706
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 3: I'm going back to twenty thirty six, Smell you later,

707
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: And he wrote this big, long, kind of fairly deep

708
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 3: philosophical take on what he learned and what he saw,

709
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: and also the fact that he had already been talking

710
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: about the fact that like, by the way, people in

711
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: the future don't think you're too great, and that you

712
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: guys haven't been doing the right things and you kind

713
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 3: of screwed everything up for the future. So he kind

714
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 3: of writes this kind of nice long thing at the end,

715
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,439
Speaker 3: which was just ended with farewell John. You know, there's

716
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: a lot of symbolism going on, Like I encourage people

717
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 3: to read it in full because it's pretty cool.

718
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: It is. It is very cool, But he basically says, like,

719
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: here's why I'm leaving and why I won't be back

720
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: or recommend anybody come back here either, because you guys

721
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: don't take care of one another. Like he talked about

722
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: how people who with stranded on the side of the

723
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: road with car trouble, people just drive past him. Nobody stops,

724
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: and he asked his family that he was visiting why

725
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: people don't stop, and they were saying, it's too dangerous

726
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 2: to stop and pick somebody up. You never know if

727
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: they're going to kill you. And they need to learn

728
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: the lesson about making sure you don't run out of

729
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: gas in the first place. And he's just like a

730
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: gast at this at how people treat one another in

731
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 2: America in the early two thousands, and in that farewell thing,

732
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: he said, make sure you keep a gas can with

733
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: you for when your car dies on the side of

734
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: the road. And I'm going back to this time and

735
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: place where you know, community and family is absolutely everything.

736
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: A utopia if you will a bit, But he didn't

737
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 2: talk it up like a utopia. It sounded like it

738
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: was probably you or I would consider it hard living,

739
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: but to him, it was fastly superior to the kind

740
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: of lifestyle that we live pre Civil War here in

741
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,479
Speaker 2: the United States in twenty twenty four.

742
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this is one that a lot of people

743
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 3: have tried to solve over the years. I feel like

744
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 3: it's been solved. Yea personally, signs you know, were there

745
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 3: were people that got on the web and started I'm

746
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 3: looking at metadata, and like, what's it called when you

747
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: can pinpoint where something came from? Oh, I can't think

748
00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: of it now, a pinpointing. No, something to deal with

749
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: your computer and where where it was posting from anyway. Yeah,

750
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: but there's another word for it. I know this is

751
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: people are just yelling at me. But long story short,

752
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 3: both the metadata and this method of pinpointing that a

753
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: website called hoax Hunter conducted this investigation pointed to this

754
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: area of Florida in both cases, so that really narrowed

755
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: it down. And then I believe they also found a

756
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 3: registration to like an LLC or company with the word

757
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 3: Tighter in it that all it had was a PO

758
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: box from that same area of Florida. And so they

759
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 3: basically think that it is. There are three brothers, the

760
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 3: Haber brothers. For my money, it's Larry or his younger

761
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 3: brother John, and not the older I think older brother,

762
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 3: Maury Haber.

763
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Larry Haber exists, Maury Haber exists. I've seen

764
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 2: that John Haber does not exist. But the Habers do

765
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: seem they certainly have something to do with this, because,

766
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: like you said, they run the John Tighter Foundation and

767
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: Larry Haber claims to be the legal representative of k Tighter,

768
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 2: John Tighter's mother. She doesn't seem to exist either. And

769
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: it's possible the whole thing was just a hoax carried

770
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: out by these guys. Totally possible. But what's interesting is

771
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: I turned up another article that interviews in part a

772
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 2: guy named Joseph Matheny who's a multi media artist, who said,

773
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: we were the ones who started this whole thing by

774
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: sending those facts to art Bell, and we stopped after that,

775
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: and apparently some coast to coast fans took up the

776
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: mantle and carried it on from there a couple of

777
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: years later. So two groups that weren't communicating or working

778
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: with one another were inadvertently collaborating, or one was collaborating

779
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: with the other later on to create this whole hoax

780
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: that was the John Tider mystery.

781
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: Now where did you see that the youngest brother didn't exist?

782
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: Well, I know that Larry Haber. I believe it was

783
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: Larry who said I don't have a brother John. And

784
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 2: I think I saw somewhere else that John is not real,

785
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: that there's not a Haber.

786
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 3: Interesting because I saw stuff quotes from John. But like

787
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 3: I think it's one of those things where you can't

788
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 3: trust anything you're reading at this.

789
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 2: Point exactly one, because again Larry Haber is saying that

790
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: he represents Kay Tighter, and Kay Tighter doesn't seem to exist.

791
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of people. Again, people have not

792
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 2: met these people. Everything has been on the internet, so

793
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: it's there's no telling who is involved, who isn't involved,

794
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: who's real, who's not real. It's fascinating in that regard.

795
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 2: So there's multi layers to what makes this whole mystery

796
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: just so great.

797
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean they're on the internet, those two guys.

798
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 3: I mean, at least the two guys are. Yeah, and

799
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 3: like one of them is a very well to do

800
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 3: business person, and I don't know, it's very interesting.

801
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Habers definitely exist, Larry and Maury, possibly John,

802
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: but I saw he doesn't, right, I understand. Okay, Well, no,

803
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: I was wrapping it up for everybody else, I know,

804
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,959
Speaker 2: you know, gotcha. I think that's it, right, Chuck.

805
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 3: I got nothing else, I mean but a deep sense

806
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 3: of unfulfilled you know podcast duty edom.

807
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: Right, I'm with you on that. Since Chuck said duty edom,

808
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 2: of course, that means he's just Unlocked listener mail.

809
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 3: I'm gonna call this tomato fun fact from Brian Kreebol

810
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 3: or maybe it's Crybol. In Germany it would be Kreebel,

811
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 3: but who knows. Hey, guys, In this also episode, you

812
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 3: mentioned that when Europeans first encountered tomatoes, they thought they

813
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 3: were deadly because they remember the night Shade family. I

814
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 3: forget where I learned this, but this idea was initially

815
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: fueled because some of them were actually killed by eating tomatoes. However,

816
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 3: it was not the tomatoes that killed them. They were

817
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: eating them off lead plates, and the acid from the

818
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 3: tomatoes does all some of the lead. Jesus then consumed

819
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 3: along with the tomatoes, thus killing some. This is what

820
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: led to the belief that tomatoes were poisonous and persisted

821
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: throughout Europe for a little while. One little bit of

822
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 3: hubris for a group that thought they knew everything there

823
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: was to know and that they were a step above

824
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 3: the indigenous communities.

825
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: Burn Who is that from?

826
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 3: That was from Brian.

827
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: Brian, That's awesome, Thank you very much. I've definitely never

828
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: heard that one, so thanks for filling that out for us.

829
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 2: And if you want to fill something out for us,

830
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: like Brian did. You can send it via email to

831
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 2: wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send

832
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: it off to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

833
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

834
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

835
00:46:52,520 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.