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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 1: Have an amazing show for everybody today. We have the

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Speaker 1: bro Show Ryan people live for the Pound as.

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Speaker 3: They today, We've got a great show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: Man, this is tough.

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Speaker 3: Crystal's on spring break with her children this week, so

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Speaker 3: she's having a great time and we hope that she's

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Speaker 3: staying offline, even though we know she's she's almost.

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Speaker 1: She's going to be living on She's going to be making.

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Speaker 5: A lot of tikeboks.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So if you want to see when she's up

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Speaker 3: to you can go and follow her TikTok account. Let's

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Speaker 3: see what we got here, the toughest part of the job.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about deportations. I know everybody wants

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Speaker 3: to hear more of that, except this time we've got

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Speaker 3: that's it. That's that's the whole show. The whole show

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Speaker 3: is just deep joking, joking. We've got Glenn Greenwald on

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Speaker 3: the show. He's going to yell at me.

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Speaker 5: I'm joking.

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Speaker 1: We're all going to talk about it. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about it, and we're going to have a.

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Speaker 3: Great conversation around some of the Eagle issues due process,

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Speaker 3: what all of this means, how it could be done differently,

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Speaker 3: the implications, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to talk to Glenn about that.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about the rallies that they covered

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Speaker 3: a little bit on Friday. Bernie Sanders really barnstorming the country,

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Speaker 3: bringing you know, tens of thousands of people to various

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Speaker 3: different rallies, some of the biggest rallies he has actually ever

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Speaker 3: done in his entire career. Interesting juxtaposition with Chuck Schumer

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Speaker 3: and the Democratic strategy. We're going to talk about corruption.

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk Starlink is set to get billions of dollars

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Speaker 3: in government contracts. We are going to talk about Steve Witkoff,

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Speaker 3: who recently appeared on The Carlson Show sounding a little

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Speaker 3: bit of a different tune now on the Israel conflict.

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Speaker 3: Appears that they definitely got to him on this one,

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Speaker 3: as the war continues on the ground there. We're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about the economy, some various different signs inside

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Speaker 3: of that. Perhaps the most troubling one to me is

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Speaker 3: the fact that you can now finance your uber eats order.

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Speaker 3: Can't think of a single worst financial decision, and yet

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Speaker 3: I'm sure it will be overwhelmingly popular. Finally, we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about soda. Ryan, You and I just love

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Speaker 3: this story. You know, a bunch of conservative influencers allegedly

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Speaker 3: got caught taking money to shill for Big Soda on

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Speaker 3: foodstamp program. So we can talk about the efficacy of that,

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Speaker 3: but also more what it says about the growing you know,

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Speaker 3: right wing influencer dumb as we see it interact with

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Speaker 3: the corridors of power. Right, Shall we do that? Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's go ahead. Glenn Greenwald is standing by. Let's get

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Speaker 3: to it. We're very excited now to be joined by

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Speaker 3: friend of the show, Glenn Greenwald. He's here to yell

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Speaker 3: at me, and he's here to school me. Is here

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Speaker 3: to educate me on my misgivings, my wrongs that I've

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Speaker 3: made here on the show. But more importantly, he is

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Speaker 3: here really as somebody who I just looked top act

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Speaker 3: so deeply on these issues, who's thought a lot about it.

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Speaker 1: So, Gwenn, it's really great to see you.

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Speaker 6: Greatest, see you soccer. I obviously have a lot of

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Speaker 6: things to tell at you about. If we did them all,

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Speaker 6: it would take three hours. That's right, to focus on

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Speaker 6: just one or two.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We're going to focus just on one or two.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with Tom Homan here, responding to criticism that

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Speaker 3: these migrants from Venezuela who were declared terrorists by the

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Speaker 3: Trump administration were deported to an El Salvador in prison

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Speaker 3: with no due process. The response there from Tom Homan

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Speaker 3: is that many victims of illegal immigration and crime themselves

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Speaker 3: were not given due process. You had a very interesting

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Speaker 3: response to that, So let's play the clip and then

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Speaker 3: we'll hear your take.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 7: How do you determine or how do your people in

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Speaker 7: the field determine that somebody is a gang member?

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Speaker 8: Doctor's various methods. I've noticed in the immedia storyc a

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Speaker 8: lot of them don't have criminal histories. Well, a lot

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Speaker 8: of gang mergers don't have criminal histories, just like a

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Speaker 8: lot of terrorists in this world. They're not in any

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Speaker 8: terrorist database, right. We only know that information within databases

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Speaker 8: based on for instance, most terrorists we arrest, they are

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Speaker 8: identified US gemer, are later identified through a Title three

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Speaker 8: investigation or through an undercover operation. They're not in any

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Speaker 8: terror screen in bass In screening database. We know that

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Speaker 8: a lot of gang members I started as a cop

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Speaker 8: nineteen eighty four, many gangmers don't have a criminal history.

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Speaker 8: We have a kind of social media who has count

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Speaker 8: of surveillance techniques. Who had to count on swarren statements

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Speaker 8: from other gang members if you had to count on,

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Speaker 8: you know, or wire taps and Title threes. Everything involved

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Speaker 8: with the criminal investigations come into play. So just because

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Speaker 8: someone doesn't hasn't been arrested in charge of the crime yet,

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Speaker 8: doesn't mean they're a member of a gang.

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Speaker 7: But how do you I mean what we've heard from

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Speaker 7: lawyers representing some of these people, is that they deny

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Speaker 7: that they're members of this of this gang or either

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Speaker 7: you know, trynd to de Aragua or MS thirteen. Do

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Speaker 7: they get a chance to prove that before you take

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Speaker 7: them out of the country and put them in to

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Speaker 7: a notorious prison in a country that they're not even from.

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Speaker 5: Did they have any due process at all?

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Speaker 8: Confidence? Due process? Where's Lake and Rhine's due process? Where

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Speaker 8: are all these young women that were killed and raped

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Speaker 8: by members TDA? Where was their due process? Well?

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Speaker 5: Well, the people that by the.

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Speaker 8: Subway, where's her due process? The bottom line is that

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Speaker 8: plan was full of people, says as terrorists number one,

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Speaker 8: number two. Every every Venzowhelan migrant on that flight was

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Speaker 8: was was a TDA member based on numerous criminal investigation,

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Speaker 8: on intelligence reports, and a lot of work by Ice officers.

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Speaker 1: Glenn, what do you make of that argument?

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Speaker 6: First of all, it's kind of weird because the older

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Speaker 6: you get, the more you realize that history really does

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Speaker 6: just repeat itself, and not by century, but even by decade.

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Speaker 4: We're back in two thousand and two where we're hearing

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Speaker 4: all of the arguments from the Bush.

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Speaker 6: And Chainy administration that they have the right to do

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Speaker 6: anything they want to people. They and they alone have

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Speaker 6: decided our terrors, and that includes putting people into prison

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Speaker 6: and definitely with no due process, torturing them, kidnapping them,

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Speaker 6: rendering them whatever else they wanted to do. And when

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Speaker 6: people objected and said, wait a minute, these people don't

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Speaker 6: even have an opportunity to go into court and disprove

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Speaker 6: or contest the accusations that you've made against them that

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Speaker 6: they're not part of a terrorist organization, what we heard was, Oh,

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Speaker 6: don't worry. We vetted these people, and we can assure

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Speaker 6: you that these people are not just terrorists, but they're

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Speaker 6: the worst of the worst. As it turns out, many,

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Speaker 6: according to Colin Power Chief of Staff Larry Wilkinson, most

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Speaker 6: ended up not being part of any terrorist organization. They

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Speaker 6: were picked up randomly, the intelligence was wrong, sometimes vindictively.

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Speaker 6: People reported them to the US military all kinds of reasons.

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Speaker 6: The government makes mistakes, and that's the whole point of

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Speaker 6: due process is we don't trust just one branch of

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Speaker 6: government to do something as cataclysmic as throw people into

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Speaker 6: a dungeon for a life without even bothering to have

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Speaker 6: to present evidence that they're guilty. And giving the people

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Speaker 6: who are so accused the opportunity to contest it. And

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Speaker 6: the other point that he made that makes absolutely no sense,

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Speaker 6: and a police officer should know this better than anyone

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Speaker 6: is due process is most necessary for people who are

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Speaker 6: accused of horrific crimes. Lincoln Riley's killers didn't just get

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Speaker 6: thrown in the dungeon because the government decided that they

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Speaker 6: were guilty. They were given lawyers, formal charges, went through

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Speaker 6: all of our judicial procedures, were found guilty in a

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Speaker 6: court of law and sentenced to life in prison without paroles.

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Speaker 6: So the idea that of course no murderers, no kidnappers,

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Speaker 6: no rapist give their victims due process, But we still

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Speaker 6: give due process to the people who are accused of

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Speaker 6: criminality before we could punish them, because the founders knew

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Speaker 6: first and foremost that humans are not infallible, and they're

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Speaker 6: going to make mistakes. And we've made mistakes all the time.

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Speaker 6: Even with due process, we've convicted people wrongly and and justly.

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Speaker 6: Imagine how many mistakes get made when you just hand

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Speaker 6: over the power to government officials and the execus the

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Speaker 6: branch dec and who is and is not guilty, with

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Speaker 6: no opportunity for the person who's accused to disprove the charges,

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Speaker 6: and that is exactly what's happening, Glenn.

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Speaker 3: I think what's made this so difficult for me is

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Speaker 3: it feels dispositionally as if the law is something that

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Speaker 3: is being almost used in a process way, not just

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Speaker 3: due process, but it's one where it feels as if

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Speaker 3: the constitution and the law seems to apply only for deportation,

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Speaker 3: but it didn't necessarily apply let's say, when people were

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Speaker 3: being allowed into the country, and then we're victimizing people

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Speaker 3: who were here. It does feel, at least to me,

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Speaker 3: as if this argumentation and this love of due process,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, only comes into play whenever it's the you know,

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Speaker 3: supposedly sympathetic group here, let's say, of migrants. When we

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily hear the same for let's say, people who

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Speaker 3: are coming here illegally committing crimes, then it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: of course this is something that is naturally to happen.

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Speaker 3: They have a lower, let's say, crime rate than the

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Speaker 3: natural born population.

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Speaker 1: The implication that you shouldn't even.

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Speaker 3: Worry about So for people like me who have really

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Speaker 3: complicated feelings about this stuff, how should we feel watching

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Speaker 3: this and trying to balance those two issues of wanting

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Speaker 3: let's say, mass deportation the selective application, let's say of concern.

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Speaker 1: What would you say to those critics, Well, the.

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Speaker 6: Whole reason Trump has made the specificted to issue of

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Speaker 6: mass deportation and he won twice, and pulls clearly show

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Speaker 6: in addition to that that people support mass deportation was

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Speaker 6: because the idea was that people entering our country illegally

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Speaker 6: have done something wrong, have done something criminal. So the

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Speaker 6: idea is though, oh, because they didn't give us due process,

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Speaker 6: or they didn't get due process.

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Speaker 4: We should now relinquish due process.

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Speaker 6: Is essentially to say, let's copy and replicate and adopt

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Speaker 6: the worst abuses of the policies that Donald Trump, for

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Speaker 6: a decade has been most harshly criticizing. I think the

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Speaker 6: bigger point, though, is that when Donald Trump has stood

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Speaker 6: up for a decade now and argued for mass deportation, typically,

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Speaker 6: mass deportation, not just typically, but almost in every case

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Speaker 6: means that you take somebody who is in your country

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Speaker 6: illegally and you send them back to their country of origin.

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Speaker 6: You send them back to where they're a citizen, or

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Speaker 6: where they came from. That is always how deportation works.

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Speaker 6: The reason this has become so controversial is because the

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Speaker 6: Trump administration is not picking up Venezuelans or others and

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Speaker 6: sending them back to their country of origin. They're sending

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Speaker 6: them on purpose to a third country that these people

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Speaker 6: have nothing to do with. They're not citizens of Al Salvador.

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Speaker 6: Most of them, if not all of them, have never

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Speaker 6: been to Al Salvador. And the reason we're sending them

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Speaker 6: to Al Salvador is because we know they have a

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Speaker 6: repressive prison system, probably the worst in the world, where

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Speaker 6: they're not only going to be humiliated in torture and

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Speaker 6: script of all human rights, but it's extremely unlikely that

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Speaker 6: they're ever going to leave. So this is a radical

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Speaker 6: departure from what we think of and called deportation. This

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Speaker 6: is consigning somebody not just to life in prison, but

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Speaker 6: to one of the worst prisons. Life in one of

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Speaker 6: the worst prisons that people very readily leave. And if

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Speaker 6: you don't believe that the government, the US government under

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Speaker 6: the Constitution, owes people the right of due process, of

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Speaker 6: a hearing, of an opportunity to disprove the accusations, not

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Speaker 6: before we deport them back to their country of origin,

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Speaker 6: but before we send them on purpose to a hellhole

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Speaker 6: of a prison that they're likely never going to leave

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Speaker 6: prison for life without even an inkling of a process,

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Speaker 6: a requirement the government showed the evidence and the opportunity

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Speaker 6: of the person so accused to contest it. Then you

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Speaker 6: don't believe in due process at all. Then you simply

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Speaker 6: believe in an authoritarian government that can just accuse people

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Speaker 6: in secret of being guilty. And that's the end of

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Speaker 6: the story. And that has never been the founding value of.

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Speaker 4: The United States.

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Speaker 6: You mentioned the Benjamin Franklin quote that I had cited,

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Speaker 6: where he said, it is more just to allow one

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Speaker 6: hundred guilty people to go free than to punish wrongfully

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Speaker 6: a single innocent person that comes from blode which is

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Speaker 6: the foundation of American and British law. Thomas Jefferson is

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Speaker 6: attributed to say something very similar, but certainly all of

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Speaker 6: his writings and all of the founder's writings, that was

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Speaker 6: the idea. Let me just give you a quick example.

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Speaker 6: We impose limits on police officers that make it more

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Speaker 6: difficult for them to catch violent criminals. They're not, for example,

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Speaker 6: allowed to just burst into houses where they suspect that

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Speaker 6: somebody guilty might be there, they first have to.

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Speaker 4: Go to a court get a warrant.

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Speaker 6: And we require that, even knowing that sometimes it's going

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Speaker 6: to mean that violent criminals get away because we're putting

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Speaker 6: barriers in front of the police.

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Speaker 4: But we're a country of liberty.

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Speaker 6: We've decided we would rather have those liberties, even if

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Speaker 6: there's a cost to it. And due process is exactly that,

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Speaker 6: and it's something foundational to the United States, and it

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Speaker 6: can't be waived simply because people are frustrated with the

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Speaker 6: legal immigration, especially when it's not sending them back to

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Speaker 6: their home country but putting them into a horrific prison

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Speaker 6: in a dictatorial country in El Salvador, where you've seen

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Speaker 6: all the video of things that they do to these.

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Speaker 4: People that would never be permitted in the United States.

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Speaker 9: And there's also that famous quote, you know, people who

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Speaker 9: trade liberty for security will get will get neither. Just

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Speaker 9: to sketch in how that unfolded in this moment, we

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Speaker 9: can just very quickly run through a couple of the examples,

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Speaker 9: because we're talking about it, you know, the question on principle,

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Speaker 9: but also in practice, we see exactly what unfolded role

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Speaker 9: A two really quickly.

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Speaker 5: This is just like a gay barber who is.

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Speaker 9: Like, we're we're asking people to just use their common sense.

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Speaker 9: Does this dude look like a thug from the trend

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Speaker 9: a Aragua gang.

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Speaker 5: It's like, no, it looks like.

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Speaker 4: James Charles is one of those gay like beauty influencers.

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Speaker 6: Is like welcoming with open arms, openly gay flamboyantly gay

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Speaker 6: hairdressers who fled Venezuela claiming persecution on LGBT grounds. You

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Speaker 6: think that's a likely member of a trend de Aragua gang.

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Speaker 6: And then or shouldn't there at least be a hearing

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Speaker 6: about that?

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Speaker 5: Firstlet's determine if he's guilty, let's hear the charges. So

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Speaker 5: then A three.

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Speaker 9: This is one we wrote about over at drop site.

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Speaker 9: Herse Barrios Rays Barrios. He's a professional goalkeeper who protested

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Speaker 9: the Maduro regimes, kicking off his opposition from the presidential ballot.

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Speaker 5: He had a hearing scheduled.

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Speaker 9: For April seventeenth to make his case for political asylum.

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Speaker 9: He was actually removed from maximum security prison after his

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Speaker 9: family was able to get an affid David from the

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Speaker 9: tattoo artist. It was like, no, this crown is related

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Speaker 9: to Real Madrid, his favorite soccer team. So that Ice

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Speaker 9: is finally like, okay, we'll let him out of maximum

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Speaker 9: security prison very quickly. They instead they just supporting him

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Speaker 9: and taking him out. DHS stood behind that one in

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Speaker 9: a comment to us, saying, you know, we feel like

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Speaker 9: the tattoo was gang related at the same time, and

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Speaker 9: you can put up a four. While I'm talking about this,

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Speaker 9: they have a not Actually this is just a bunch

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Speaker 9: of other people who was their family are saying, no,

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Speaker 9: these are just tattoos.

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Speaker 5: These guys are nothing to do with gangs.

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Speaker 9: DHS has said one hundred and one of the people

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Speaker 9: this is an this is for his this guy's for

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Speaker 9: his autistic brother. This is like the autistic like awareness

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Speaker 9: and acceptance symbol. One hundred and one of the people

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Speaker 9: that were deported. They don't claim we're in a gang.

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Speaker 9: Yet every time we come with evidence that this guy

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Speaker 9: is not a gang, DHS responds, they're actually in a gang. Now,

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Speaker 9: I don't really have a question because I agree.

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Speaker 5: With you on this one.

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Speaker 9: I'm just just be a pot plant for the rest.

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Speaker 5: Of this conversation. I just wanted to add that.

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Speaker 3: I think this is all fair, and this is what

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Speaker 3: I think makes the difficulty. Again, I'll just explain, you know,

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Speaker 3: for me, I feel as if that the law was

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Speaker 3: not applied for several years millions of people illegally entered

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Speaker 3: our country, and you know, any often the discussion for

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Speaker 3: those years, if we brought up someone like Lake and

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Speaker 3: Riley or the victim of crime in that respect, it was,

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Speaker 3: oh well, that is simply the consequence of Ryan, let's say,

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Speaker 3: in your case of our meddling in Venezuela, almost as

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Speaker 3: if we deserve it right for that to happen, or

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Speaker 3: and or lawlessness.

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Speaker 1: Of not you know, taking the names of many of these.

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Speaker 3: People, or you know, not pursuing deportation or detainers or

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Speaker 3: the willful either you know, expulsion from let's say, from

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Speaker 3: prison during without bail. And it seems that as if

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Speaker 3: you know, here, you know, we can highlight these examples,

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Speaker 3: of course, of which, look, it is clear that there

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Speaker 3: were like terrible mistakes. And I don't even disagree with

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Speaker 3: you Glenn on a human level, and I think I

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Speaker 3: am coming around to your point of view. It just

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Speaker 3: does feel, you know, for in terms of let's say,

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Speaker 3: the sympathy and who we decide to like look at

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Speaker 3: these things has eroded much of the discourse around this,

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Speaker 3: and so both at an emotional level and also with

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Speaker 3: with Ryan's what Ryan is saying, because I'm sure there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of people who listen to this who

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Speaker 3: probably initially had my response as well, what do you

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Speaker 3: think that they need to hear both about not the

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Speaker 3: not only equal application of the law, but why it

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Speaker 3: is so important what you're saying.

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Speaker 6: So I do absolutely agree that we have democratically ratified

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Speaker 6: a program of mass deportation. There's all polls showing across

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Speaker 6: political lines that people believe that the massive info of

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Speaker 6: people into our country who aren't documented, who have no

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Speaker 6: right to be here, who cross the border illegally, is

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Speaker 6: a huge problem and needs to be rectified. And again,

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Speaker 6: I think Trump has won a democratic mandate to mass

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Speaker 6: deport people who are in the.

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Speaker 4: United States illegally and to close the border. I don't

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Speaker 4: have any doubts about that.

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Speaker 6: Whether I agree with that policy or not, that is

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Speaker 6: the democratic decision. There is a process in place though,

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Speaker 6: that is designed to do that. You can deport people.

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Speaker 6: Obama and Trump in his first term and Biden in

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Speaker 6: his first term deported a lot of people, and you

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Speaker 6: can deport a lot more legally using the legal mechanisms

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Speaker 6: that are set up.

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Speaker 4: The problem with Biden was not that there.

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Speaker 6: Aren't legal processes sufficient to deport a lot of people.

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Speaker 6: The problem is that the Democrats had no political will

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Speaker 6: to do so. They were controlled by pro immigration groups.

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Speaker 6: But if you want to, you can abide by the

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Speaker 6: law and mass deport at the same time and minimally

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Speaker 6: safeguard human rights and the ability of people not to

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Speaker 6: be wrongly accused.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think we.

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Speaker 6: Would even be having this debate saga if not for

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Speaker 6: the fact that Trump gets in. There hasn't really been

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Speaker 6: mass deportations, by the way.

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Speaker 1: Well there has not.

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Speaker 4: The number that's very important.

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Speaker 6: There has not been messed right, And what we're getting

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Speaker 6: instead are distractions from kind of exploiting the idea of

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Speaker 6: mass deportation, first to go after people who are in

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Speaker 6: the country legally green card holders and visas who are

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Speaker 6: being expelled for the crime of criticizing and protesting against Israel,

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Speaker 6: which I know you do not support, and so part

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Speaker 6: of that is an exploitation for a completely different issue.

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Speaker 6: But the other part is deportations are not about sending

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Speaker 6: people to prison for life. That we've never regarded life

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Speaker 6: in prison as an appropriate punishment for people who enter

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Speaker 6: our country, especially in a country that's not theirs. That

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Speaker 6: is only appropriate prison for people who are proven to

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Speaker 6: have committed violent crimes. And there's a lot of doubt

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Speaker 6: about whether the people sent to El Salvador were in

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Speaker 6: fact guilty, and even if there was a doubt, even

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Speaker 6: if they all seem kind of guilty based on this

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Speaker 6: very tenuous art of interpreting people's tattoos, which, by the way,

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Speaker 6: liberals did with Pete Hegstath in a way that turned

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Speaker 6: out to be completely misguided. There was a New Yorker

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Speaker 6: fact checker, Talia Levine, who accused an ICE agent of

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Speaker 6: having a Nazi tattoo.

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Speaker 4: She had to quit because she misinterpreted the tattoo.

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Speaker 6: These are very very thin reads on which to proclaim

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Speaker 6: somebody guilty. If it had just been the kind of

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Speaker 6: deportation that Trump was promising, I don't think there'd be

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Speaker 6: a controversy. The problem is is that these are not

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Speaker 6: deportations in the traditional sense of the word. And we

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Speaker 6: should have learned from the War on Terror that if

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Speaker 6: the government says, trust us. Everyone we're punishing is guilty.

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Speaker 6: You don't need a hearing, you don't need to see

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Speaker 6: the evidence. We know for sure people are going to

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Speaker 6: be wrongfully accused. And there's a big difference between I

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Speaker 6: mean just sending them back to their home country, although

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Speaker 6: that could be pretty devastating for people here a long

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Speaker 6: time or married to an American citizen, as monkalides, but

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Speaker 6: it's still way worse to send them to a dungeon

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Speaker 6: in Alsawador with no due process.

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Speaker 3: Glenn, what is the legal process that the government has

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Speaker 3: to follow. Let's say, like I know, this happened with

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Speaker 3: a lot of GETMO detainees, where we're like, okay, we

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Speaker 3: want to send them back, but then their country's like, no,

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Speaker 3: we don't want them back. So and this was some

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Speaker 3: of the wrangling that I've seen as well, that while

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Speaker 3: the Venezuelan government has agreed to accept some deportation flights,

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Speaker 3: let's say, in the case of many of these migrants

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Speaker 3: to the United States, if they did not want to accept,

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Speaker 3: then what process must the government follow. Because it does

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Speaker 3: feel a bit preposterous that if the government doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to accept them, that they have to let's say stay

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Speaker 3: here on the dime of the US hax.

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Speaker 4: Bear Well, Guantanamo is a perfect example.

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Speaker 6: You may remember that at one time there was an

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Speaker 6: excess of one thousand detainees at Guantanamo, again who we

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Speaker 6: were told were the worst of the worst, the incorrigible

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Speaker 6: terrorists who would never be recuperated.

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Speaker 4: And now there's fewer than forty people. What happened to

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Speaker 4: all of those people.

437
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 6: Apparently they got released because the government realized or they

438
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 6: proved in court that they weren't actually threats a terrorist threats,

439
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 6: they didn't belong to a terrorist organization, and sometimes their

440
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 6: countries didn't want them back, but the US used diplomacy

441
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 6: and was able to place them all all throughout the world.

442
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 6: They didn't get sent back to prison. They were put

443
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 6: into other countries. Some of them are like in Caribbeani.

444
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 6: The United States is a very powerful country. We have

445
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 6: all sorts of ways diplomatically to do deals with other countries,

446
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 6: including with Venezuela that has now said they're going to

447
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 6: accept the deported Venezuelan citizens. So this was not saga,

448
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 6: an attempt to just be like, oh, we don't really

449
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 6: have anything to do with them.

450
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 4: Because Venezuela won't accept them.

451
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 6: This was a huge rush that was designed really to

452
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 6: be deterrence, to say, if you come into our country illegally,

453
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 6: we're going to make examples of these people, and we're

454
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 6: going to make videos of it with them being humiliated

455
00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 6: and stripped of their humanity.

456
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 4: And it was done in a very rush fashion.

457
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 6: There was no real attempt to diplomatically negotiate with Venezuela

458
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 6: or anybody else who might take them. The whole cruelty

459
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 6: and horror of the process, again without due process, was

460
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 6: part of what they were purposely trying to do, and

461
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 6: that is not an appropriate means of the justice system

462
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 6: to make, you know, That's what monarchs used to do,

463
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 6: is they would cut off people's heads who they heard

464
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 6: were criticizing them and then hang them in the town

465
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 6: square as a warning to others who might do that.

466
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 6: That is not American justice, That has nothing to do

467
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 6: with our value system.

468
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 4: It's a huge assault on it.

469
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 6: And I think there's obvious ways for the US government

470
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 6: diplomatically to get these people back to their home countries.

471
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,360
Speaker 3: Last question for you, Glenn, from me is why does

472
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: due process for illegal immigrants matter? That's something that I

473
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 3: really struggle with is just this idea. You can come

474
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 3: to the United States, you can violate our laws, you

475
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: can then receive better treatment, you know, than you would

476
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: in your own home country. And we're almost like a

477
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,479
Speaker 3: victim of our own compassion and of our openness when

478
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 3: we didn't enforce the law and then are required to

479
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: enforce the law once you are here illegally.

480
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: Why do you think that it matters?

481
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 3: And I did not even realize until I started listening

482
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 3: to you that the precedence for due process for people

483
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: president of the country illegally goes all the way back

484
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: to the eighteen hundred. So it's pretty clear that we

485
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: have been grappling with this question for a long time.

486
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: But it's obviously been politically controversial.

487
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 3: So why do you think it matters even for illegal immigrants, for,

488
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 3: of course, people like mack Mud Khalil and others.

489
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 10: The Bill of.

490
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 6: Rights was never intended to be, and the courts have

491
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 6: never interpreted as a kind of list of privileges that

492
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 6: only a certain group of human beings possessed, namely American citizens.

493
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 6: In fact, the Fourteenth Amendment was deliberately written to say

494
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 6: that any persons inside the United States, not citizens, but persons,

495
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 6: not even legally here, but just persons in general. Human

496
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 6: beings have the right of the equal applipation, equal protection

497
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 6: of the law. They have the right of due process.

498
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 6: And that's why this is not something of liberal courts

499
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 6: in the nineteen sixties, as you say, it goes back

500
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 6: to the eighteen hundred and again when the United States

501
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 6: put obviously all non citizens in Guantanamo.

502
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 4: The Supreme Court in two thousand.

503
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 6: And eight ruled that even though they're not in citizens,

504
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 6: because they're under US sovereignty, they have the right of

505
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 6: habeas corpus, the right to go into court and to

506
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 6: demonstrate that the charges against them are illegal. And the

507
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 6: reason is the Bill of Rights is not a list

508
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 6: of privileges assigned to particular people. It's a constraint on

509
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 6: the US government with regard to everybody under their control.

510
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 4: And the reason is is because.

511
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 6: It's simply so inherently morally unjust, horrifyingly unjust to do

512
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 6: something like throw someone into prison for life without any

513
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 6: opportunity for them to prove that that is an unjust punishment.

514
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 6: Deportation itself, real deportation, send them back to the country,

515
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 6: has a very minimal standard of due process. It's just

516
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 6: a kind of immigration court within the Justice Department. And

517
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 6: as long as they're here illegally, in the go can

518
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 6: prove that they'll approve them going back to their country

519
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 6: of origin. You don't have to prove guilt or crime.

520
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 6: The prime is entering the country illegally. We're talking about

521
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 6: something much much different here. And I think that's the

522
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 6: reason it has become so alarming. And it's not just

523
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 6: alarming in these cases, but as a precedent that will

524
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 6: obviously expand outward in a way that we saw happen

525
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 6: repeatedly in the Cold.

526
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 4: War, the War, and terror in every other abuse of

527
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 4: civil liberties.

528
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 9: The only other point I'd make is these are radical ideas.

529
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 9: Free speech, protection of people who are accused of crimes,

530
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 9: of due process, for every person, whether they're a citizen

531
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 9: or not. Like we are unique around the world in

532
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 9: defending these liberties. It's and like I said, it is

533
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 9: like you go to other countries, they are like this

534
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 9: full First Amendment thing you have, this is a radical

535
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 9: idea and it's just not accepted in a lot of

536
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 9: other places that you have these liberties. And so in

537
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 9: dark times like this, you got like, that's when you

538
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 9: really have to them or then we're just like what

539
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 9: are we then? Anyway, So that's my only point. I

540
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 9: don't know if any final.

541
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: Thoughts, Glenn, any final thoughts here.

542
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 10: No.

543
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 6: I think it's a crucial point, and I would just

544
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 6: add one thing, which is that one of the ways

545
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 6: that governments traditionally try and get around the constraints on

546
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 6: them from the Constitution is to try and say we're

547
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 6: in war time and therefore we can't afford those And

548
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 6: as I'm sure you know this seventeen, this Alien's Enemies

549
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 6: Act was invoked only three times in history of the war

550
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 6: of eighteen twelve, World War one, world War two, where even.

551
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 4: Then it was very sketchy.

552
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 6: Courts were very skeptical of the right to deny view

553
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 6: process based on it the idea that mass immigration is

554
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 6: some kind of a war in the traditional sense where

555
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 6: Congress declares war against the foreign power. That in itself

556
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 6: is extremely dangerous, because that is what we saw in

557
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 6: World War two, an attempt to impose a war paradigm.

558
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 4: What really was a.

559
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 6: Criminal problem of international terrorism that we could solve with

560
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 6: due processing courts, And if you just allow the government

561
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 6: to declare war willy nilly, and therefore all the powers

562
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 6: that go with it, the constitutions is going to become

563
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 6: illusory because the government can just get around it by saying, oh,

564
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 6: we're at war, We're war against this problem, this problem,

565
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 6: this problem, and that I think is maybe the most

566
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 6: dangerous theory that the Trump administration is promagating.

567
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: Well, Glenn, you've always given me a lot to think about.

568
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 3: I think I think you have convinced me. But it's

569
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: a difficult emotional process to get here, and I really

570
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 3: do thank you for coming on the show, for being

571
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 3: willing to do this, and for just continuing to always

572
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 3: stand up and you believe, and you're one of my

573
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 3: heroes that's out there.

574
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 5: So thank you.

575
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 4: Thanks Zager.

576
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 6: I appreciate your having me on knowing that we were

577
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,239
Speaker 6: gonna that it was gonna yellow you.

578
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 5: Well, it's good.

579
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: It's good for me. I think it makes me stronger. Right,

580
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 3: all right, we appreciate you, Glenn. Thanks very much.

581
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 4: Good talking to you guys.

582
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 3: All right, let's go ahead and get to these rallies,

583
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: and then afterwards we're going to talk a little bit

584
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: to Dave Weigel, reporter at Semaphore who actually was on

585
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: the ground for some of these and he spoke to

586
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: the participants involved. Let's put the first part up here

587
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: on the screen. This is just some images that came

588
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 3: out of these rallies all across the United States as

589
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: part of the quote Fight Oligarchy tour by Bernie Sanders.

590
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: I mean, look, you got to respect the game. Crowds matter.

591
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: As we learned in the twenty sixteen presidential campaign, both

592
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump were able to bring out

593
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 3: just tens of thousands of people aren't really normally engaged

594
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 3: in politics. And what's fascinating about this one, Ryan, is

595
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: not only the sheer crowd size, but also the makeup

596
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: of those crowd sizes. So a Bernie AOC rally, you

597
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: and I've been covering this for a while. You know,

598
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 3: it's got a certain esthetic, it's a it's got a

599
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: certain group like they're fishheads, as Ryan can announced this

600
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: time around. Though there's some moms there, there's some people

601
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: there that are traditionally part of the progressive left wing movement.

602
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: And something that we always respect here on this show

603
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 3: is not only crowd size, but the ability to build

604
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: new coalitions. I mean, Donald Trump is very effective at

605
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 3: Bernie Bernie in his waning days arguably the most impressive

606
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: feat of his political career so far.

607
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 9: And you have some right wing commentators, influencers whatever you

608
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 9: want to call them, who are throwing cold water on

609
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 9: this and saying, according to our cell phone analysis of

610
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 9: these characters who are out there protesting, you know, these

611
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 9: folks have also gone to Black Lives Matter protests as well,

612
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 9: like a if you're American and you're remotely on this

613
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 9: in the center or the left, you were out of

614
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 9: Black Lives Matter. They were like, that's twenty million people

615
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 9: or something a lot. It's basically everybody that's right. And

616
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 9: they said, and it's not grassroots, because we have identified

617
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 9: that this organization, Indivisible, was involved with helping to organize

618
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 9: these rallies. Indivisible is an organic, grassroots organization that does

619
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 9: yet some like foundation funding, but that doesn't mean it

620
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 9: isn't a membership based and like powered organization where you

621
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 9: have like an Indivisible and Chevy Chase and Indivisible and

622
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 9: all of these little tiny neighborhoods have Indivisible chapters. Those

623
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 9: are generally normy Democrats, like those they came out of

624
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 9: the Women's March era. So the fact that they are

625
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 9: at a Bernie AOC rally does not undercut the kind

626
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 9: of potential that it shows. It actually fuels because it's like, oh,

627
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 9: now you've got the normy dams who are showing up

628
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 9: at a Bernie rally.

629
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 5: That's that's a change well run.

630
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: As you and I know, oppositions always like to downplay

631
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: the grassroots elebrate and actually like the TV this exactly.

632
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: And so let's take it back to twenty and ten.

633
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: And so I was a student here in Washington. We

634
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: were a wash in crowds. We had the Glenn Beck rally.

635
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: I'll never forget. That was actually while I was moving

636
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: into my dorm, my freshman year dorm. I was stunned.

637
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. I was like, something

638
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 3: that is happening here in Washington. The entire city is

639
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: taken over by all of these like anti Obamacare protesters,

640
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 3: Glenn Beck's rally. I mean that was hundreds of thousands

641
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: of people. What was the comment, Oh, they're being bust

642
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: in by the Koch brothers. And it's like, yeah, that

643
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: might even be true, but guess what, They're still showing

644
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: up to vote, Like as most people like. It's pretty

645
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: rare to actually physically being paid to go to a protest.

646
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: Not saying it doesn't happen, it certainly does. But at

647
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: a mass level, no, that's not true. Providing organization, bust

648
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 3: is and all that is a long standing part of

649
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: all political coalitions that Donald Trump campaign use that to

650
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: a great effect. Of course, try to make sure that

651
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: your rallies are always crowded. This is like standard political stuff.

652
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: The fact is is when you have all these people here,

653
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: it means something. Now we don't know what yet, but

654
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: it definitely means something to me.

655
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 9: One fun irony, though, the only person who really flagrantly

656
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 9: actively paid people to be part of their political operation

657
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 9: is Elon Musk.

658
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 10: He's like, I'll, I.

659
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 5: Will pay you one hundred dollars.

660
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 9: It worked off though, and it worked out right, So

661
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 9: it's hilarious that he would be like pointing fingers at this.

662
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 9: But you're you're so right. And at the time I

663
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 9: remember the left saying this is all Coke Brothers stuff.

664
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 9: And my argument to the left was this type of

665
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 9: cope screws you because you need an objective, clear eyed

666
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 9: analysis of your opposition or else you're not going to

667
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 9: see what their assets are, and you won't be able

668
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 9: to come at them and defend your own position. And

669
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 9: the Kochs were funding the Right for decades at that

670
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 9: point and had never managed to bring hundreds of thousands

671
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 9: of people out to the MA all. So the fact

672
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 9: of the money is sometimes necessary to get the people

673
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 9: out there.

674
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 5: But it's not sufficient.

675
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: Yes, you have to have actual or people need to

676
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: be pissed off, people to be mad that people need

677
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: to be politically engaged.

678
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 9: And these foundations were funding Indivisible to the tune of

679
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 9: a couple hundred thousand dollars two years ago, but they

680
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 9: weren't pulling all.

681
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: This money mattered. Joe Biden will be president or Comma

682
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 3: can still be president. And I say, as we were

683
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 3: knowing people sa Kamala Harris would have gone exactly, people matter,

684
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: actually matter more than anything. And so we've got this

685
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: some clips here from Bernie Sanders, which I think if

686
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: I had to, you know, as people here know, I've

687
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: got the softest spart of mind of all the Democrats,

688
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 3: it's Burt Bernie. For me, he's the OG. I have

689
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 3: a very difficult time, especially when he goes the route.

690
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's we'll talk about that so especially as old school.

691
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: So I just think the guy I don't know, there's

692
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: something about him tugs at my heart strings. And something

693
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: I appreciate the most about Bernie is to me, Bernie

694
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 3: just feels American, and that is what really hit home

695
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: in some of these speeches.

696
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: Let's take a list.

697
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 5: We don't want a king in the United States. We

698
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 5: all the throw a kaing.

699
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 4: Money.

700
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 11: They control our economy, they own much of the media,

701
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 11: and they have an enormous influence over our political sicemy.

702
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 11: But from the bottom of my heart, I am convinced.

703
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 10: That they can be the.

704
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 12: We need a democratic party that fights harder for us too.

705
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 12: That means our communities, each and every one of us,

706
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 12: choosing and voting for Democrats and elected officials who know

707
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 12: how to stand for the working class.

708
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 13: Our job is to break up the big corporate monopolies

709
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 13: that are screwing us every single day. Bring down housing

710
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 13: prices for good, bring down grocery prices for good, require

711
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 13: good living wages for a fold day's work. Put power

712
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 13: back in the hands of everyday people from Arizona to Texas,

713
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 13: all across America.

714
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: All right, So very I mean look, you have to

715
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: respect it.

716
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 3: And like I said at the top there for Bernie,

717
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: I remember his most effective political ad, the America Ad

718
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. Also here, you know, bringing back to the

719
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: spirit of the American Revolution and or the labor movements,

720
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: something that he's very intimately familiar with and he's been

721
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: rawn on for quite a some time. And I do

722
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: think that that is a very potent political message right now,

723
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: and it's I think important for him, you know, with

724
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: the Oligarchy tour there, not only against Elon and some

725
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: of the political feelings, but in terms of like where

726
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 3: this movement can go. Because again, as you and I know,

727
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: the reason why the Tea Party was funded to the

728
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 3: tune that it was was to specifically direct grassroots anger,

729
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 3: which let's all be honest, people didn't care about Obamacare, Okay,

730
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 3: they just hated Obama. What they wanted to take that

731
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: feeling around that and channel it into an agenda that

732
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 3: was well planned, right, so you could give This is

733
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 3: where leadership really matters at a political level, not only

734
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 3: in terms of the organization at the top, but electing

735
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 3: and selecting candidates that specifically agreed, let's say, on the

736
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: debt ceiling or Obamacare and all that and telling them

737
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: what their mandate was.

738
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: So, yes, you need to fight. You need to fight

739
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: specifically on a set of issues. Now.

740
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: Last time around, the Donald Trump resistance of twenty seventeen

741
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: was built physically around Donald Trump. It was specifically built around, oh,

742
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: we need to impeach Trump or show he's not democratic.

743
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean anything, right, and especially if it's built

744
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: on a bullshit lie, which is what Russia Gate was

745
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: this time around. Though, if you have an actual critique

746
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 3: right of what a policy level is, that will lead you.

747
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 3: That's the decision tree from which everything happens. If and

748
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: when you do get elected in two thousand and twenty

749
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 3: six for the mid terms, what type of hearings you call?

750
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: Are you going to be doing Russiagate hearings or are

751
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 3: we gonna, let's say, a Starlink hearing.

752
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: I can tell you which one's gonna be more politically palatable.

753
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: By the way, it's definitely going to be the latter one.

754
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 5: Yes, And that was Greg Kasar at the end there, who.

755
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know he had that in him. He's actually

756
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: not bad, I'll be honest. After he was on the show,

757
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: wasn't that a brestpot. Yeah, we hear like we had

758
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: him on we had him on a Friday Sue.

759
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 9: Yeah, yes, and he's really he's in his element when

760
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 9: he's fighting the billionaires and the oligarchs.

761
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 5: Did you see John Ossoff? Yes?

762
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 4: I did.

763
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: I was stunned the actually to see because I'm like, okay,

764
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 3: that's where you know, my critic cat comes and it's like,

765
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: all right, dude, you know we're talking about oligarchs and Billy.

766
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 3: It's like, come on, all right, let's let's remember a

767
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: little mister Ossoff's career here in Washington and exactly who

768
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 3: we got him elected.

769
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 9: Well, now I'm ann asof hipster here asoff defender. He

770
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 9: when he was a Hill staffer, he's parties right yeah,

771
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 9: and yeah, like he was we can say this at

772
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 9: this point now I know like Lee fond knew him well,

773
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 9: and he was he was one of the Hill staffers

774
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 9: who was the most aggressive against surveillance, civil liberties.

775
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 5: The NSA CIA.

776
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 9: He was he was a threat to that national security,

777
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 9: a deep state.

778
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 5: He was also working.

779
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 9: He was also doing like documentaries in Africa about colonialism

780
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 9: and corruption and prison conditions, and I think the as

781
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 9: off you're seeing now.

782
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 5: Is the actual one.

783
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 9: And politically he's liberated the not the Obama impersonating one

784
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 9: of like the twenty seventeen House race, but his last

785
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 9: couple of Senate runs, he's been like, if that's the

786
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 9: Democratic Party, huh, Like that's a that's a cool Democratic Party.

787
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 9: And so if you missed as he was saying that,

788
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 9: he was making the point that the Trump cabinet I

789
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 9: think is worth something like sixty billion dollars before you

790
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 9: get to like Trump in Elma. He's like, they are

791
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 9: the elites that they're telling you that they're coming after,

792
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 9: and I don't know if it's too late. So part

793
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 9: of this almost feels like poignant, like now now the

794
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 9: Democrats are finally getting it, when you know, there's been

795
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 9: room on the left for this, and there's been a

796
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 9: hunger on the left for this class based Bernie Sanders,

797
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 9: the millionaires and the billionaires, the one percent that analysis

798
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 9: the occupy flowing out of the Occupy Wall Street analysis.

799
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 5: That's it's been there, and then it.

800
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 9: Got diverted, you know, you know, first by the Hillary

801
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 9: Clinton campaign and then by the kind of greater wokening

802
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 9: yes from twenty seventeen.

803
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it's an accident.

804
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 3: The Greater Wakening actually happened the exact same year as

805
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 3: Occupy twenty eighteen. That was the exact time that we

806
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: both had the Occupy Wall Street movement and you had

807
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: the Greater Wokening. The Great Opening is a term that

808
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 3: actually does have meaning. By the way, you can go

809
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: and look at the skyrocketing use of you know, quote unquote.

810
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: Work terminology that it does not an accident.

811
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: Also that twenty fifteen, the Obergerfel case happens in the

812
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 3: entire landscape social politics in America.

813
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: Changing.

814
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 9: Our system is so our capitalist system is so good

815
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 9: at protecting its own interests that it's able to kind

816
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 9: of produce these antibodies to actual threats to it. It

817
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 9: spotted a real threat to it in the form of

818
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 9: Occupy and Bernie and this energy and the anti body

819
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 9: was this Great Wokening.

820
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: That's an interesting yeah.

821
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 9: And so now now has the antibody faded, But it

822
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 9: might be too late, like now maybe the oligarchs are

823
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 9: in firm control.

824
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,280
Speaker 1: Well, I think what makes it too late are not only.

825
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 5: We have a terminal condition.

826
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 3: We had not only an eleven year legacy here of

827
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: the Great Wokening, which is if you think about that,

828
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 3: that means that a eight year old at that now

829
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: grew up and became politically conscious in a quote unquote

830
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: woke period, and attitudes have significantly changed among So we

831
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 3: didn't unfortunately, and on Thursday and have time to go

832
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 3: into the analysis there the best analysis the twenty eight

833
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 3: million survey of voters, and specifically how different white college

834
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 3: educated women are than the rest of the population, white

835
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: college ADKA and women of corps being one of the

836
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 3: bedrocks of the Democratic Party, and especially with the divide

837
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 3: in income and in class that we now see where

838
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 3: a lot of lower income Americans or and or non

839
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 3: white Americans find themselves Republicans or at the very least

840
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: Trump voters and Trump not as Trumps skeptical, whereas like

841
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 3: resistance in and of itself is kind of cringe and

842
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 3: is basically what the home of the liberal base now.

843
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: Well could a lot can change, of course, you know,

844
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: people change all the time.

845
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 5: And think about what the Greater Wokening left us with

846
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 5: in twenty fifteen.

847
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 9: As Sanders is rising, the big problem that was associated

848
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 9: with him, according to all his critics too many young

849
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 9: white men was toxic who were angry. They were supporting

850
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 9: Bernie bros. Now the problem Democrats has that they are

851
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 9: all Trump supporting.

852
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right.

853
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 3: It is funny because though that prototypical Bernie Brow is

854
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 3: now the prototypical podcast bro who is the you know Republicans.

855
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: Literally the Joe Rogan pipeline is is real in Rogan's kse.

856
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 3: I would say, actually, in a lot of these guys cases,

857
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 3: people who are a lot I know quite a few

858
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 3: of them, Like they're not Republicans by any of they

859
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: don't really care about tax policy or.

860
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: Something like that.

861
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 3: They're much more uh, either radicalized on social issues and

862
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: or just very anti establishment. They feel like the left

863
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 3: is just too deeply tied to the overall like commanding

864
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 3: heights of stablishing.

865
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: And I understand.

866
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 9: And they gave up on the idea that there could

867
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 9: be collective change in this country, and so they've channeled

868
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 9: that energy inward.

869
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 5: They're going to work out more.

870
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 9: They're gonna worry, worry about theirs they take.

871
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: Because Trump is what. Trump's a wrecking ball, right, It's like, well,

872
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: that's the best that we can do. It's kind of

873
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: a screw you to everybody. It was interesting. Now the

874
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: media is taking notice.

875
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 3: Here we have ABC News John Carl talking about Bernie

876
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:51,439
Speaker 3: Sanders and his rise.

877
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

878
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 10: How's the Democratic Party doing challenging us?

879
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 5: They got to be a little tougher, but being a bunch.

880
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: Of dormant stranded when everything.

881
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: So you can see people are mad. But Bernie, this

882
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 3: is again got to appreciate the guy. Bernie has an

883
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 3: actual worldview. He doesn't just go with the tides. Okay,

884
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 3: he does sometimes, if we're all being honest, on Ukraine,

885
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 3: on a pro live, a few few of the things,

886
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: especially on blmun guns. Yeah, but on immigration, he's always

887
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: had something to say. And that's why there's a lot

888
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 3: of people on the left. They don't know what to

889
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,479
Speaker 3: do with this Bernie, the guy who he's always been.

890
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 3: Let's take a list.

891
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 7: Is there anything that you think Trump has done right?

892
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 12: Yeah?

893
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 11: I mean I think cracking down on fetanyl, making sure

894
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 11: our borders are stronger.

895
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 5: Look, nobody thinks it legal immigration is appropriate.

896
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 9: Oh interesting, okay, And people were like, oh, what about

897
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 9: you in twenty twenty. Yeah, like the inauthentic Bernie on

898
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 9: immigration was the twenty twenty one who went with the

899
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 9: Democratic tide, which was produced by the Democratic outrage at

900
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 9: kids in cages and child separation and real.

901
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 3: Searching insane moment too, because that was when you know,

902
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: this idea that Elizabeth Warren makes up a story about

903
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 3: how Bernie was sexist to her like eight years ago

904
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 3: or whatever.

905
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: That had actual currency.

906
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 3: You know, it's like actual currency not only in his campaign,

907
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: but in the broader media environment, and I would say

908
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 3: at least with a limited portion of the Democratic base. Now,

909
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 3: you know, those of people who watched this show always

910
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: thought it was bullshit and that it was an invented smear.

911
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: But you know, let's not, you know, make it up

912
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 3: like it was a scandal at that time in terms

913
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: of the right going right in Iowa the same in particular,

914
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 3: when we think about the campaign in twenty twenty was

915
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: really just a meeting of forces that were really, in

916
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: my opinion, it's not meant to co exist, like you

917
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 3: come off this great awokening me too. All of these

918
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 3: other social in my opinion, like insane like periods like

919
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 3: literal temporary mass psychosis mirrored or sorry paired with an

920
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 3: original like economic populace campaign of twenty sixteen, which had

921
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: nothing to do with any of that. If anything is

922
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 3: like diametrically opposed, I would say that the great failure

923
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 3: of his twenty twenty campaign was the inability to reject

924
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 3: a lot of that and to return to his roots

925
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 3: to the America AD and also just not being able

926
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: to prosecute a kay. This is his own personal failings

927
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 3: in my opinion, where he's independent, he calls out the

928
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 3: Democratic Party, but Joe Biden. I mean, if were all

929
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 3: recall my great friend Joe, they're like, well, what was

930
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 3: up with that? You know, he can't it doesn't work

931
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: that way, or if it does, and you're actually just

932
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 3: one of them, which is what I think a lot

933
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 3: of people also feel. Also one of the reasons why,

934
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 3: you know, his campaign and his willingness there at the

935
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 3: end basically just endorsed Biden for nothing.

936
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: Remember what he said.

937
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 3: He's like, Joe, I understand that you also want to

938
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: cancel or raise the fifteen dollars minimum wage.

939
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: And he's like, yes, Bernie, I do.

940
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 3: Didn't happen, right, It's one of those where and then

941
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: didn't really hear much about it.

942
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 10: You know.

943
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 3: The entire time he was a good soldier for forty,

944
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 3: which is a weird role to see him.

945
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people felt betrayed by that.

946
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 9: Oh yes, you know, his image took a big hit

947
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 9: on the on the left, and but you know, I

948
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 9: think people are like, don't expect him to run for

949
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 9: president again. Yeah, so there's a little bit more grace

950
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 9: and also there's nothing else to cheer for, and so

951
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 9: I think I think AOC is stepping into that as well,

952
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 9: like she also you know took, you know, has been

953
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 9: has taken you know, huge, huge hits from the left

954
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 9: for years. Yes, but there's nothing else out there, And

955
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 9: so a lot of people like, all right, well, so

956
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 9: did she say that she's saying the things again.

957
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 3: Right, but you know, why should you have trust now,

958
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 3: right because she said it before? Well, I think, and

959
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: she ran for the oversight thing, and she was a

960
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 3: good soldier. She endorsed Biden, She even defended Biden after.

961
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 3: You know, she was more vociferous in defense of Biden

962
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: then Nancy.

963
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 9: Plus, I don't think you're going to get a world

964
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 9: where people blindly trust either, right. But I think it's like,

965
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 9: if you're involved, you know, you need a horse. There's

966
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 9: nobody else riding this is it right?

967
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 10: All right?

968
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: Well?

969
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, as I always say, you go to war with

970
00:45:57,719 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 3: the with the troopers that you have. These are the

971
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: We've got Dave Wygel standing by. He's going to break

972
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: a lot of this down for us. He's got some

973
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: great reporting on the subject. Let's get to it. Joining

974
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: us now is Dave Wygel. He's a fantastic national political

975
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 3: reporter for Semaphore, a great friend of the show.

976
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: Good to see Dave sit here.

977
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 10: Thank you so, Dave.

978
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: He wrote some really interesting stuff here about Tim Wallas.

979
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 3: We just talked a lot about Bernie Sanders, but Tim

980
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 3: Walls is also holding town halls and meetings, and he's

981
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 3: been on somewhat of an apology tour. I guess you

982
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 3: could say, let's put it up there on the screen

983
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 3: whilst on governing under Trump.

984
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 1: I'm not going to enable him.

985
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: So what did you learn at this rally or with

986
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 3: in Wisconsin? Tim wallss was there? It was and I

987
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 3: told you so tour? It was an apology tour. What

988
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 3: is his theory about where things went wrong? And also

989
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 3: how is he positioning himself visa VI Bernie and AOC.

990
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 14: Well, he doesn't really have answers to what went wrong.

991
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 14: That's part of it. It was this town hall style event.

992
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 14: The questions were a little bit coordin not coordinated, but

993
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 14: vetted before they were asked.

994
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 10: The crowd was all Democrats.

995
00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 14: There were couple of Megan, I didn't see them at

996
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 14: a friend from Wisconsin paper saw maget people trying to

997
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 14: get in and they want.

998
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 10: To live in.

999
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,919
Speaker 14: So it wasn't it was asking what went wrong without

1000
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 14: bringing people in who voted against Democrats.

1001
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 10: Maybe not that effective.

1002
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 14: And the Wall general theory a little bit of self serving,

1003
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 14: which is that he has a political style, a very

1004
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 14: blunt political style, sometimes goofy, often goofy that he thought

1005
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 14: would have was hemmed in by the Harris campaign.

1006
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 10: The policy part of it.

1007
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 14: He just thinks Democrats didn't do enough when they had

1008
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 14: power to convince working class voters that they're on their side.

1009
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 14: That rhymes with Bernie's saying, and that's irritating to lots

1010
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 14: of Democrats because they look at the Biden agenda and say,

1011
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 14: we actually did. There's the faction of Democrats say we

1012
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 14: listened too much to the Warren staffers and the Bernie

1013
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 14: staffers and did as much as we could off your

1014
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 14: policy agenda, and the Teamsters went from endorsing us to

1015
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 14: unendorsing us, even though we shoveled money at them and

1016
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 14: saved their pension. Yeah, so he didn't have answers. He

1017
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 14: just had a they should have listened to me more

1018
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 14: and they should be more more populist TBD or victory.

1019
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 9: What is the kind of Bernie Warren Wing response to that,

1020
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 9: because it is the case that they pushed through basically

1021
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 9: whatever they could, Like, certainly on a ron klaym, Bernie

1022
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 9: was calling Joe all the time and and it was,

1023
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 9: you know, Joe Mansion slowing things down.

1024
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 5: Cinemas, that's slowing things down. What does the Bernie wings

1025
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:13,959
Speaker 5: say to that that, Like.

1026
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 10: It's mostly that part.

1027
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 14: It's that it's the cinema and mentioned slowed this down

1028
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 14: and more real populism hasn't been tried. We should be

1029
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 14: What if we were defending right now child it expanded

1030
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 14: child tackles right, What if we're defending right now dental

1031
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 14: care as part of medicare. That's that's kind of the

1032
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 14: Bernie answer. Because his speech is shorter than some of

1033
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 14: the speeches he gives. His policy agenda is not just

1034
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 14: you should have elected me. It is implying we can

1035
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 14: build on some of what Biden did, but not saying

1036
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 14: and Biden did some things right. The only time he

1037
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 14: mentions Biden is criticism of the funding for Israel war machine.

1038
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 10: That's all.

1039
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: That's all he does interesting and he brings up Biden.

1040
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 14: But it is it just it just says, yeah, and

1041
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 14: we need to keep building and doing more progressive things.

1042
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 10: But no mention of the Biden agenda.

1043
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: Dave, how are you thinking about this moment? So I

1044
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 3: knew you and I talked a little bit and I

1045
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 3: was like, man, this minus touched thing, like as somebody

1046
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 3: who does this for a living. I'm like, this is crazy.

1047
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: And I don't see a lot of elite media grappling

1048
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 3: with that. I think it's because not only are the

1049
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 3: outside but they're not like capital d Democrats, as in

1050
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 3: they're all like yay Schumer. They're like, no, actually, Schumer,

1051
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 3: screw you. How are the people in Washington, Tim Walls

1052
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: and all those other people are they picking up on that?

1053
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 3: I can see that with Bernie and with AFC, they're

1054
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: aware of this burgeoning online resistance, but I don't see

1055
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 3: the bubbles up here yet.

1056
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 14: The difference between Democrats on their strategy is really fighting

1057
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 14: or building right now and fighting later.

1058
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 10: That's basically it.

1059
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 14: And that's another harmony between Walls and Sanders and frankly

1060
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 14: people showing up because what was interesting in these crowds,

1061
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 14: the Walls crowd was all people who voted for Harrison Walls,

1062
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 14: the Bernie crowd. Remember the first eight people I talked

1063
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 14: to in Greeley, which is the University of Northern Colorado,

1064
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 14: the probably the most conservative district.

1065
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 10: Tea campaigned in every weekend.

1066
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 14: The first eight people had not voted for him in

1067
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 14: any of the primaries, and I was kind of I

1068
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 14: wouldn't say it was looking for people who might not have,

1069
00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 14: but I was saying, oh, you're a woman in your

1070
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 14: sixty probably you know you have resistance gear. You probably

1071
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 14: weren't a huge Britney fan. And they weren't. They like AOC,

1072
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 14: but they say, just Democrats aren't doing enough to fight.

1073
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 14: Where are they? Where are they not stopping this? Why

1074
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 14: can't they stop this? Why can't they fill a buster?

1075
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 14: I mean that was the question I had for Walls.

1076
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 10: So you dealt with this.

1077
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 14: You got elected in two thousand and six, and people

1078
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 14: were furious that you didn't cut off funding for the

1079
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 14: Iraq war, and he had he had an answer, but

1080
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 14: the answer there was, yeah, I just take the l

1081
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 14: and win the two thousand and eight election, and I

1082
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 14: fun the war in the meantime. And that's just not

1083
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 14: satisfying these Democrats. They look at Trump and say, not

1084
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 14: only is he rude, does he offend our values?

1085
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 10: But he wins a lot of what he wants.

1086
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 14: He's not trying to do anything like omper Pelbambcair wouldn't

1087
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 14: win that right now, but he wins, and they want

1088
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 14: someone who wins.

1089
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 10: And that's the difference.

1090
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 14: It's not how have you scored your Medicare for all planned,

1091
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 14: is like, are you convincing me that at the end

1092
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 14: of the day you actually scored a hit on Trump's

1093
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 14: in some way?

1094
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 10: Yeah?

1095
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1096
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 9: And so you were seeing a lot of these people

1097
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 9: then that are into that funny category that I started

1098
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 9: seeing emerge right after AOC, one who were like Norman

1099
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 9: Democrats who are like, I don't like Bernie, but I

1100
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 9: do like AOC, which is the reverse of some people

1101
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 9: on the left who are like I like Bernie, but

1102
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 9: I don't like AOC. And in both cads you're like

1103
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 9: they pretty much just saying the exact same things more

1104
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 9: or less.

1105
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 5: Some emphasis varies here or there.

1106
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 9: So are those people now who are like, I don't

1107
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 9: like Bernie, but I like AOC. They kind of like

1108
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 9: Bernie a little more because he's maybe less of a

1109
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 9: threat and he's not going to probably run for president.

1110
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 9: And could you imagine these like centrist ish whatever you

1111
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 9: want to call him, resistance democrats really getting behind AOC

1112
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 9: as as a party leader type figure.

1113
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 14: Oh, as a party leader, so some of that, yeah,

1114
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 14: they see as a senate candidate. Sure, But I started

1115
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 14: asking people at the Greeley and the Denver rallies, and

1116
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 14: I feel a little bit, even though it's part of

1117
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 14: the job, I feel weird asking normal people about presidential

1118
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 14: elections three out of advance. But okay, it'll be in

1119
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 14: the conversation. I leave this rally and people says, you're

1120
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 14: running for something.

1121
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 10: And I was struck.

1122
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 14: The same people I was finding who had strange new

1123
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 14: respect for Bernie or AOC, they were already worried that

1124
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 14: she was not electable nationwide, like, oh, she's not white guy,

1125
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 14: and maybe that won't work, and she said some left

1126
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 14: wing things, maybe that won't They really were snake bit

1127
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 14: by the Harris experience. And that's a bit ironic that

1128
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 14: Kamala Harris, who the ungenerous version of what she did

1129
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 14: in twenty twenty is endorse a lot of left wing

1130
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 14: ideas that she couldn't commit to or believe in, and

1131
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 14: they haunted her for six years. That was the worry

1132
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 14: they already had about AOC, but as a leader in

1133
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 14: the party. Yeah, so they were cheering for their own senator.

1134
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 14: She was shouting out every center who voted against the

1135
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 14: CR for example, and they liked that she was saying,

1136
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 14: there are Democrats doing the right thing. We were talking

1137
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 14: about a handful of Democrats who are not doing the

1138
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 14: right thing and a one hundred percent majority of Republicans

1139
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 14: doing the wrong thing.

1140
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 10: You need to get rid of the content of her speech.

1141
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 14: There was I'm a working class person who Republicans make

1142
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 14: fun of because I'm working class and I know these

1143
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 14: policies work, and we did get Republicans were bad for them.

1144
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 14: So there was nothing she said that was even testing,

1145
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 14: like are you be on this so you're willing to

1146
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 14: go and endorse this policy? I ran on twenty eighteen,

1147
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 14: even when they talked about green jobs it was a

1148
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,439
Speaker 14: green jobs program. They did not mention the word green

1149
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 14: new deal, and she already was I wouldn't. I'm not

1150
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 14: trying to say it cynical, but she already was not

1151
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 14: mentioning the sort of you know, bingo car jargon that

1152
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 14: made a lot of sense to people in twenty nineteen.

1153
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 14: Like he didn't say medicare for all, you didn't say green.

1154
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 10: She wasn't doing that.

1155
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 14: She was saying, here is a almost, here's an inspiring

1156
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 14: populist democratic agenda. Take it if you want it, and

1157
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 14: I'm here to give speeches about it because I can

1158
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 14: get crowds.

1159
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 10: That was what the opera was. Yeah.

1160
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 3: Interesting, Let's compare that to Chuck Schumer and his theory

1161
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 3: of resistance. Let's take a listen, we'll get your reaction.

1162
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 15: Our plan, which we're united on, is to make Donald

1163
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 15: Trump the quickest lane duck in modern history by showing

1164
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 15: how bad his policies are. He represents the oligarchs. As

1165
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 15: I said, he's hurting average people in every way, and

1166
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 15: we are through oversight hearings, we're exposing what he's doing

1167
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 15: through the courts, which I mentioned. We've had some real

1168
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 15: success through legislation and through organizing and all the districts

1169
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 15: throughout the country. So that I believe that when because

1170
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 15: the Republicans are already nervous, you know a lot of

1171
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 15: them said don't hold town hall meetings. I believe by

1172
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 15: twenty twenty six the Republicans in the House and said

1173
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,399
Speaker 15: it will feel like their rats on a sinking ship

1174
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 15: because we have so gone after Trump and all the

1175
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 15: horrible things he's doing, and they will see it hate it.

1176
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 3: So Dave, that's like the process theory of resistance that's

1177
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 3: not working for a lot of these voters.

1178
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 14: No, and he answers the questions that are asked. He

1179
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 14: doesn't pivot because the interviewer might say, but you be

1180
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 14: tell us what you're doing to fix this problem the party.

1181
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 14: But there's not the democratic agenda there. And that is

1182
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 14: when Schumer was on the rise, and Schumer and ram

1183
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 14: were in this kind of the same train going together

1184
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 14: in two thousand and four to two thousand and five,

1185
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 14: they led with policy. They said, well, the Iraq war's unpopular,

1186
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 14: that's taking care of itself, and we need to come

1187
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 14: up with some sort of agenda that we can run

1188
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 14: on everywhere in the Ohio River Valley in the six

1189
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 14: six or six And that's a deep cut in the Yeah,

1190
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 14: oh yeah, I thought I had deep custods.

1191
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 10: And the super view of things.

1192
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 14: Yeah, you do this, you make them up popularly, come

1193
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 14: back and say, if you're ready to come back to Democrats,

1194
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 14: here's our offer. And the progressive populist version is they

1195
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 14: already assumed that Trump's beat. There's all these voters who

1196
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 14: less than before, but who assume this thing that is

1197
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 14: not going to go well. They want him to sha

1198
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 14: break up the system. They'll be ready once the system's

1199
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 14: broken up for something else. And we need to tell

1200
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 14: them right now because they look at Democrats and don't

1201
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 14: take us seriously. And that was the other part of

1202
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 14: what Sanders was saying. More in interviews, he said this

1203
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 14: to Times, said to me that he's just trying to

1204
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 14: find more candidates to run for office, and he had

1205
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 14: the Denver He said, AOC's an inspiration people can do

1206
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 14: what she did. Find their friends run as maybe independence,

1207
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 14: not independence, running as a spoiler, an electing a Republican independent,

1208
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 14: saying the Dan Osborne model in Nebraska, though it didn't work,

1209
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 14: Sanders Motte, which does work. There might be people who

1210
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 14: just think the party is so toxic that you need

1211
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 14: to run outside of it. And that is not fixing

1212
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 14: the party's problems with Trump. That is saying we need

1213
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 14: to replace the Republicans with whatever chess piece is available,

1214
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 14: can be a Democrat, can be independent, the whole Trump

1215
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 14: bad thing. All Right, people know that we're not getting

1216
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,399
Speaker 14: in with that argument. We probably gonna say that I've

1217
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 14: talked a lot.

1218
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 10: Is that half to see?

1219
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 14: These speeches are about things Trump is doing, but they're

1220
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 14: focused on He is firing FTC commissioners, he is firing

1221
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 14: federal workers to enrich his friends and his donors.

1222
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 10: It's much more coherent than he'll become unpopular later.

1223
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very smart.

1224
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 10: Now.

1225
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: The last question here is exactly about that point.

1226
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 3: I don't remember specifically at this time in the Tea

1227
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: Party did they have announced candidates. How soon should we

1228
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 3: start to look for those primary races which became such

1229
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 3: an important part.

1230
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 10: Of the narrative.

1231
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 14: No, very good question, because I think candidate filing in

1232
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 14: these Virginia races this year, that's wrapping up without much

1233
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 14: of a challenge the internal party. It'll be later later

1234
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 14: this summer we'll see some of that. I wasn't even

1235
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 14: with Sanders, and Asca wasn't seeing much of a tumult

1236
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,479
Speaker 14: for we need to primary a lot of Democrats because

1237
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 14: they just aren't. Look at the cr vote in the House,

1238
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 14: in the Senate that says there's somebody going to may

1239
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 14: probably primary Brian shots over that.

1240
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 10: They're not giving them a lot of material to do that.

1241
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,479
Speaker 14: West Worth, the Tea part at this point, had people

1242
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 14: all these problics on the record for tarp right, there

1243
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 14: was something you could easily go out and tell people

1244
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 14: they screwed you.

1245
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 3: A ultracks such a good point. I didn't think about

1246
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 3: a litmus test.

1247
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 14: Yeah, there's not the same litmus test for their candidates,

1248
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 14: but I'd say later in the year. Uh, and they

1249
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 14: the the challenge of getting the progressives through the primary process.

1250
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 10: Justice Democrats are still trying to do that.

1251
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 14: These groups are troops, still trying to do that, but

1252
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 14: they really are trying to win an argument first, so

1253
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 14: that even the moderate candidate is going to end up like, look,

1254
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 14: there's all these people who are not on TV every

1255
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 14: day but voted with Maxie Waters on everything this year.

1256
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 14: And that's that's more of the thinking, how do we

1257
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 14: have a coherent popular agenda that is rooted in Elon

1258
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 14: Musk is trying to rob you that somebody can run

1259
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 14: in a plus four Trump seed. We're not necessarily going

1260
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 14: to say you didn't sign our petition. We want we

1261
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 14: want to win that argument so that every time every

1262
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 14: Republicans are being asked there, asked if they support Doge

1263
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 14: in a negative way everywhere they go there is it's

1264
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 14: whom the Democrats going to tax the rich and give

1265
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 14: us benefits. So yeah, long answer to your question, I

1266
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 14: would say in a few months, but it justice Democrats

1267
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 14: recruitment was starting much earlier, a couple of cycles ago.

1268
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 14: Right now they're looking at the field and saying, also,

1269
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 14: what is Crypto, what is APAC going to do and

1270
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 14: try to undermine us. We need a robust theory for

1271
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 14: these candidates before the money comes in and makes them

1272
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 14: not electable.

1273
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, smart, Yeah, all right, Dave, thank you so much

1274
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: for joining us, man. We appreciate it.