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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and what Good Stuff.

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Speaker 2: I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and today we

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Speaker 2: are bringing back kind of a dated episode I'll say

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Speaker 2: about Martha Stewart, because you and I had been discussing

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Speaker 2: the legacy the impact of these magazines that were all

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Speaker 2: about like home decor and cooking that were aimed specifically

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Speaker 2: towards women generally, and we do have episode coming out

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Speaker 2: about that soonish. We're at the end of the year,

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Speaker 2: so it's sort of the juggling of the calendar. But

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Speaker 2: I was looking into this and I found this quote

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Speaker 2: from Delish that I wanted to include holiday cooking. No

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Speaker 2: surprise makes us all a bit unhinged. Even though a

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Speaker 2: survey found that eighty seven point eight percent of people

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Speaker 2: in the US plan to make a holiday meal, a

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Speaker 2: whopping seventy percent of the same group said they've lied

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Speaker 2: to someone about enjoying a holiday meal. Two and five

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Speaker 2: Americans even say that the holidays negatively impact their mental health,

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Speaker 2: with thirty nine percent saying that holiday meals are often

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Speaker 2: the main source of their stress. Martha Stewart has also

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Speaker 2: thrown in the hat this year, canceling her own Thanksgiving celebration.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's true it did. Like preparation around it,

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Speaker 2: food and all the other stuff too, is very very stressful.

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Speaker 2: But I think that it's interesting that Martha Stewart was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm good.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know why. I feel like Martha

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Speaker 3: Stewart is a lone wolf in my mind outside of

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Speaker 3: Snoop Dogg, So I don't imagine I don't imagine her

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Speaker 3: having a big gathering, even though I know she can't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why, right, Yeah, yeah, and I do.

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Speaker 2: I have spoken to several people I know who ordered

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Speaker 2: food or just cook like simple things like have sort

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Speaker 2: of stepped away from this traditional big thing, and they

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Speaker 2: always seem really happy. They always seem really happy with it.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, I think it's worth considering if, like,

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Speaker 2: if it's causing you that much stress.

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Speaker 3: Because we definitely had that conversation about friends give us

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Speaker 3: for us, And there was a point in my social life,

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Speaker 3: I guess where I felt like if I only had

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Speaker 3: one fite, it was very sad. That means I didn't

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Speaker 3: have a lot of group of friends, so like having

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Speaker 3: two or three, Like I was jealous of the people

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Speaker 3: who had two or three of them because they had

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Speaker 3: so many friends. And now I'm like, once stresses me out.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, man, I need to downsath my group because

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Speaker 3: they wanted two friends. Give us.

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Speaker 4: Just kidding.

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 5: It was stressful, right, Actually it was very stressful, but

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Speaker 5: uh like to the point that, like my thoughts about

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Speaker 5: it has changed so drastically about holiday mills and I'm like, oh, mis, fine,

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Speaker 5: it's fine.

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Speaker 3: Just one is good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I know I've said I've shared the story before,

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Speaker 2: but I started when I was in high school. I

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Speaker 2: asked my mom to teach me how to cook our

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Speaker 2: traditional meal. And because I was like, well I one day.

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Speaker 2: At the time, I believed I would have my own

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Speaker 2: family and I need to know how to do all

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Speaker 2: of this. And now we're like a good team and

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Speaker 2: we do it together. But it is funny to me

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Speaker 2: that in high school I was like, you must teach

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Speaker 2: me the ways for my own family.

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Speaker 4: Did not even play in my mind.

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I'll figure this out later.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Well, whatever meals you're cooking or not cooking, whatever

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Speaker 2: you're enjoying, we hope that you're enjoying it, and please

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Speaker 2: enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you. From how Stuff

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Speaker 4: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline.

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Speaker 6: And first Caroline, let me apologize to you from my

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Speaker 6: slightly sick rasty voice. I don't know it kind of

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Speaker 6: sounds sixy yeah, now that I'm hearing myself, I kind

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Speaker 6: of sound exactly like I always do.

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Speaker 1: So maybe throw some convincing coughs in there.

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Speaker 6: Anyway, today we are talking about Martha Stewart, which has

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Speaker 6: absolutely no connection whatsoever to the little cold that I

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Speaker 6: have developed. But I thought I would start things off

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Speaker 6: by sharing what Martha's doing today. You know, on our calendar,

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Speaker 6: Caroline today probably said something along the lines.

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Speaker 4: Of podcasting yeah, or that Martha Stewart podcasting.

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Speaker 6: Well. I went to Marthastewart dot com to look at

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Speaker 6: her planning calendar that she has, and for today, Martha's

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Speaker 6: to do list is make chicken and vegetable stocks, freeze them,

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Speaker 6: and then tomorrow she's playing to.

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Speaker 4: Pick spinach and lettuce from the greenhouse for salads. That

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Speaker 4: sounds like a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? Maybe I'm cynical.

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Speaker 4: I would like for it to be true.

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Speaker 6: Honestly, it's really overcast today that we're recording and staying

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Speaker 6: at home making chicken and vegetable stocks and freezing them

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Speaker 6: and maybe putting on an afghan afterwards and curling up

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Speaker 6: with some Cama mild tea.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think she does that. She's a busy lady.

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Speaker 4: She never said.

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Speaker 1: The reason that I'm cynical that she's actually making chicken

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Speaker 1: stock today is that she is the head of an empire,

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Speaker 1: a Martha Stewart Empire.

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Speaker 4: She has plenty of people to make chicken stocks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she can just call on her chicken stock servant

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Speaker 1: and they can do it.

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Speaker 4: We're not claiming that Martha Stewart has servants disclaim her.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying if I had a lot of money

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Speaker 1: and I wanted chicken stock all the time.

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Speaker 4: You could probably find someone today could.

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Speaker 1: Hire someone to make it for me.

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Speaker 6: But speaking of Martha Stewart as a businesswoman, one of

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Speaker 6: the reasons why we wanted to have this podcast today

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Speaker 6: about Martha is because things are not going quite so great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one area of her empire that is suffering

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Speaker 1: of late, the Hallmark Channel is preparing to cancel the

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Speaker 1: Martha Stewart Show, which will air through the end of

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Speaker 1: the summer summer twenty twelve. Production will cease in April

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Speaker 1: and reruns will air through the end of the summer.

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Speaker 6: And I think the Martha Stewart Show originally started out

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Speaker 6: on NBC and then moved to Hallmark and it's run

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Speaker 6: for a total of seven seasons on both channels, but

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Speaker 6: has recently seen a slide in ratings. And also there

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Speaker 6: have been complaints about production costs, so Martha Stewart Show

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Speaker 6: Bye bye, as well as a home depot pulling it's

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Speaker 6: line of Martha Stewart Living paint.

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Speaker 4: Oh, so it was double whammy news, both reported in

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Speaker 4: the in the New York Post a few days ago.

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Speaker 1: Well, good news for Martha fans who like to watch

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Speaker 1: her on TV. She is well not she her her

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Speaker 1: giant empire. Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia is in talks with

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Speaker 1: the network, according to network reps, about potential news show

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Speaker 1: formats and concepts, So it's very possible she might develop

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Speaker 1: something else. And even if she doesn't form another show

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Speaker 1: on the Hallmark channel, she's got plenty else going on.

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Speaker 4: She does omnimedia.

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Speaker 6: I mean, if that doesn't kind of media. Hintet how

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Speaker 6: many balls she's juggling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, omni like omnivore or omniscient things that are a

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Speaker 1: lot of things.

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Speaker 4: Or omni the former sports facility to Lada, Georgia where.

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Speaker 1: I saw Bush in seventh grade. Anyway, Okay, do we

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Speaker 1: want to talk about omnimedia now that we've Yeah, Okay.

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Speaker 4: Just gonna let you drive this car, Okay.

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Speaker 6: Martha Stewart living on the media comprises four main areas publishing, Internet, broadcasting,

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Speaker 6: and merchandising, all of which is cross promoted.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because you'll notice, I mean, just talking about

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Speaker 1: the merchandising alone if you've ever been. She doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a relationship with Kmart anymore, but I remember buying things

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Speaker 1: of hers at Kmart. Half of the stuff in my

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Speaker 1: apartment right now is Martha Stewart from Macy's. Yeah. She

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Speaker 1: has a lot, a lot of products out there and

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Speaker 1: lines for home depot which Christian just said the paint

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Speaker 1: had been pulled sears Macy's Walmart. She has craft stuff

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Speaker 1: at Michael's.

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Speaker 4: She also has.

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Speaker 1: Home cleaning products, pet products so that your pet can

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Speaker 1: be preppy just like Martha.

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Speaker 4: What if they have.

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Speaker 1: Little pet button ups? Just like Martha, I bet, and

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Speaker 1: little wigs, Oh my god, I'm a genius. Okay, brands

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Speaker 1: of wine, and a line of fresh and frozen foods.

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Speaker 1: And the one that blew my mind was home construction MSLO.

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Speaker 1: Martha Stuart Living Omnimedia is involved in home construction. It

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Speaker 1: builds and sells houses modeled after Stuart's homes in New

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Speaker 1: York and Maine.

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Speaker 4: Wow, so you can live in your very own Martha Stewart.

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Speaker 1: Eating her food, home, buying her crafts. Wow. Yeah, I bet.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if she has frozen chicken stock that you

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Speaker 1: can buy.

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Speaker 6: Probably, but merchandising just one of those four pillars. Publishing

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Speaker 6: really makes up a bulk of MSLO.

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Speaker 4: She has published so many books.

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Speaker 6: She has magazines such as Martha Stewart Living, Weddings, Everyday, Food,

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Speaker 6: and Whole Living, as well as special holiday and family

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Speaker 6: themed magazine issues. And I want to say that Martha

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Speaker 6: Stewart Living magazine circulation, which was the first and obviously

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Speaker 6: her cornerstone publication, peaked at two point one million.

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Speaker 4: Sheld not that at all.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Martha Stuart Living kind of intimidates me

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Speaker 1: because I feel like I look at it and it

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Speaker 1: just looks at me back and it goes, You're not

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Speaker 1: serious enough, you don't really want this, You're not a

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Speaker 1: crafter now.

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Speaker 6: Just imagining you staring down Martha stewartt Living the grocery

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Speaker 6: store aisle.

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Speaker 1: Well, I do I stand there in line at publics

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Speaker 1: or wherever and just stare at the magazine and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I know, I'm not worthy. I'll just pick

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Speaker 1: up I'll just pick up another.

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Speaker 4: Imaginally just slides behind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the tabloid magazines, just slides in front

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 6: And in addition to print publishing, of course, she has

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Speaker 6: her Internet properties such as Martha Stewart dot Com, as

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Speaker 6: well as radio, TV and other kinds of broadcast properties.

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Speaker 1: There's Everyday Food on PBS, and she has the Martha

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Speaker 1: Stewart Living Radio program. Apparently she has a pretty serious

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Speaker 1: presence on Serious Satellite radio, and according to her page

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Speaker 1: on Serious Radio's website, Martha Stewart Living Radio with the

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Speaker 1: nation's first twenty four hour, seven day a week radio

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Speaker 1: service dedicated to created living.

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Speaker 6: And one thing I didn't realize was that Martha Stewart

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Speaker 6: basically bought the rights to.

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Speaker 4: Chef Emerald Lagassi and all of his properties.

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Speaker 1: As well expanding the brand. You gotta look forward, yeah,

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Speaker 1: can't look back.

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Speaker 6: Basically buy just by personalities, which is kind of fascinating

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Speaker 6: when you think about it. So that is Martha Stewart

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Speaker 6: the business.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sorry to keep being the deb downer of.

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Speaker 6: This episode, but in June twenty eleven, they reported that

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Speaker 6: the company had sold almost forty three million dollars worth

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Speaker 6: of products, but at the end of the year was

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Speaker 6: ten million dollars in the red.

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Speaker 4: And in fact, it's lost money seven out of the

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Speaker 4: last eight years.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's why she's looking to expand the brand,

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Speaker 1: because you know, she brought her daughter Alexis on board,

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Speaker 1: and Alexis had the Whatever Martha Show, and she had

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Speaker 1: a show on Serious Radio also with Jeff her co host, Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: And Martha did say in interviews with New York Magazine

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Speaker 1: that she was quite aware that maybe her traditional shows

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Speaker 1: did not appeal the crafting and the cooking and all

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Speaker 1: that's handmade in the chicken stock maybe didn't appeal to

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Speaker 1: people of our generation so much that she's bringing on

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Speaker 1: her daughter to kind of spice things up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but before we.

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Speaker 6: Talk about the future of MSLO, perhaps we should revisit

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Speaker 6: the past and find out, yes, and find out how

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Speaker 6: Martha Stewart got her start, because even as a child,

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Speaker 6: she was quite the talented gal she.

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Speaker 1: Was, and she had help from everyone around her who

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Speaker 1: infisted on helping her. At the age of three, her dad,

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Speaker 1: who was a pharmaceuticals salesman, taught her to garden. He

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Speaker 1: was an avid gardener himself, and so at the age

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Speaker 1: of three. I don't know what I was doing at

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Speaker 1: the age of three, but I'm pretty sure it was

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Speaker 1: involving barbies, not gardening. She also learned cooking and sewing

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Speaker 1: from her mother, and her grandparents taught her to make preserves. Again,

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Speaker 1: my childhood apparently pales in comparison.

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Speaker 6: Well, not to mention all of that, some retired bakers

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Speaker 6: who lived next door to her taught.

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Speaker 4: Her to make pies and cakes.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like the most idyllic country childhood, but in fact,

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Speaker 1: she grew up in New Jersey.

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Speaker 4: M hmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: She says that she came from a modest home in

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Speaker 6: New Jersey and that her brothers would hunt and fish,

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Speaker 6: and kind of describes it as sort of a hard

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Speaker 6: scrabble upbringing, but I don't know, it's still little.

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Speaker 4: House in Jersey.

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Speaker 6: Yes, she was a straight A student and won a

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Speaker 6: scholarship to Barnard where she studied art, European history, and

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Speaker 6: architectural history. And not only that, The Fair Maiden also

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Speaker 6: modeled to cover expenses, and she continued a successful modeling career,

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Speaker 6: appearing in print and TV ads for Breck Claarl Life,

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Speaker 6: Booy Soap, and Taryton Cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she was all over the place, the Stuart who knew.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And in nineteen sixty one she got married to

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Speaker 6: law student Andrew Stuart.

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Speaker 1: Right, and she actually followed in the footsteps of his

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Speaker 1: father and in nineteen sixty seven became a stockbroker, which

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Speaker 1: I mean this, lady, I mean, I've never heard of anyone.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of this before. This is pretty impressive, Martha.

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Speaker 1: To have this background in modeling and yet art and architecture,

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Speaker 1: and then to go and become a stockbroker. That just

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like the traditional path, So that's pretty impressive.

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Speaker 1: She left in nineteen seventy three when a recession hit

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Speaker 1: Wall Street, and then she and her husband moved up

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Speaker 1: to Connecticut and fixed up an old farmhouse.

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Speaker 6: And while living at the old farmhouse, it seems like

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Speaker 6: Martha tapped back into those early kind of homemaking skills

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Speaker 6: that she.

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Speaker 4: Learned as a child.

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Speaker 6: In nineteen seventy six, she starts a catering business out

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Speaker 6: of her basement while managing a gourmet food store in town.

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Speaker 6: And by building connections through this catering business and really

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Speaker 6: setting up a high priced clientele and by networking through

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Speaker 6: this catering business, Martha Stewart really makes a name for herself.

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Speaker 6: And that's what propels her to publish her first book,

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Speaker 6: Martha Stewart's Entertaining in nineteen eighty two.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the best selling This is also blowing me away,

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Speaker 1: the best selling cookbook since Julia Child's Mastering the Art

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Speaker 1: of French Cooking. And I think it's really interesting that

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Speaker 1: that's the one it beat, because that is how she

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Speaker 1: taught herself gourmet cooking. Yeah, was using Julia Child's cookbook.

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Speaker 6: And then within ten years of starting her own catering

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Speaker 6: business in the basement of an old farmhouse, she grows

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Speaker 6: it into a million dollar business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Why, Yeah, of course of course she did.

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Speaker 6: Because she's Martha, Because she's Martha, and then in nineteen

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Speaker 6: eighty nine she divorces Andrew Stewart, and the year later

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Speaker 6: she starts her own magazine, Martha Stewart Living, which.

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Speaker 4: Really propels her more public persona.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she started appearing on talk shows, and she got

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Speaker 1: her own thirty minute show, which then because of its popularity,

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Speaker 1: expanded to an hour with thirty minute episodes on the weekend.

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Speaker 1: So she's really kind of a busy lady from the

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Speaker 1: get go mm h.

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Speaker 6: And then by nineteen ninety three, she starts up that

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Speaker 6: relationship with Kmart that you mentioned earlier Caroline for a

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Speaker 6: reported five million dollars over ten years. And then by

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Speaker 6: nineteen ninety seven, she's purchased all the publishing, broadcasting, merchandising,

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Speaker 6: and licensing ventures that bear her name and consolidated all

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Speaker 6: of them into MSLO, that Omnimedia corporation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, smart move, And in nineteen ninety nine the company

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Speaker 1: goes public and the share price more than doubles the

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Speaker 1: first day of trading, and like a Smarty, she retains

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Speaker 1: the most of the shares and served as chairman, president,

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Speaker 1: and CEO.

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Speaker 6: So things are going really well for Martha in the

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Speaker 6: early two thousands.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, two thousand and one, Ladies home Journal names are

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Speaker 1: the third most powerful woman in America, which isn't too shabby.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and then a great honor is bestowed upon her

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Speaker 6: when she is invited to join the New York Stock

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Speaker 6: Exchange Board of Directors in June.

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Speaker 4: Two thousand and two. But then, but then a doc

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Speaker 4: chapter arrives.

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Speaker 6: She resigns four months later when the Securities and Exchange

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Speaker 6: Commission accuses Martha Stewart of violating inside trader rules, leading

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Speaker 6: MSLOS share prices to plummet, and the TV show gets

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Speaker 6: the acts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure most of you remember, or I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you don't, but she was under investigation for selling

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Speaker 1: hundreds of shares of m Clone just before the FDA

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Speaker 1: announced it was not approving the company's new cancer drug.

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Speaker 1: So once that announcement came out, the value of the

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Speaker 1: stock plummeted.

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Speaker 6: And it just so happened that Martha Stewart, who was

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Speaker 6: sitting on the Stock Exchange Board of Directors, obviously, you know,

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Speaker 6: just kind of got rid of those cheers just to

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Speaker 6: the nick of time.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what happened, Nope, we don't. We don't

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Speaker 1: claim to know what happened. But in June two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three, an indictment charged her with securities fraud, obstruction

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Speaker 1: of justice, conspiracy, and making false statements to prosecutors and

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Speaker 1: the FBI. And while she pleaded innocent to all charges

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Speaker 1: and a judge eventually dismissed the securities fraud charge, a

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Speaker 1: jury found her guilty of the rest and she was

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Speaker 1: sentenced to five months in prison and fined thirty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 6: And I remember just how the media was fascinated by

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Speaker 6: this Martha stear thing because it's in such stark contrast

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Speaker 6: to this perfect kind of homemaking.

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Speaker 4: You know, let's make our own stationary and make a

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Speaker 4: little little little stamps and send letters to friends.

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Speaker 6: And now she's sitting in the courtroom with Alexis, her daughter,

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Speaker 6: faced in the front row.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think it just it showed that there

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Speaker 1: was a lot more to Martha Stuart than maybe we

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Speaker 1: all assumed. She really is a tough, hard nosed business

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Speaker 1: woman and who just so happens to have shows and

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Speaker 1: radio programs and magazines about like traditionally feminine soft pursuits

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Speaker 1: like crafting.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, which is interesting because you know, this whole time

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Speaker 6: she's single, it's not like she's actually homemaking in that

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Speaker 6: kind of traditional sense of the word.

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Speaker 4: But more there was an argument.

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Speaker 6: That it's the kind of homemaking skills that Martha Stewart

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Speaker 6: practices are okay in terms of gender politics because she's

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Speaker 6: doing it for herself.

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Speaker 1: Right, Because it's not as if she's Her shows and

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Speaker 1: magazines are about making dinner every single night and doing

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Speaker 1: the laundry and everything. It's more of a creative homemaking

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Speaker 1: stuff to satisfy yourself. Right.

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Speaker 6: But after Martha Stewart serves her five months in jail,

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Speaker 6: she immediately sets out rebuilding her brand and getting herself

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Speaker 6: back out into the public eye and connecting with her fans.

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Speaker 6: And it's kind of incredible to see how she almost immediately,

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Speaker 6: I guess, refurbishes her reputation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she gets a weekly call in show on serious

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Speaker 1: satellite radio. She puts out new books, The Martha Rules,

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Speaker 1: the Martha Stewart Baking Handbook, and the Homekeeping Handbook. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, was she just really busy, I guess

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Speaker 1: during her incarceration, just like I'll just write all this

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Speaker 1: stuff while I'm well, I'm in the clink.

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Speaker 4: Well it provided.

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Speaker 6: As Alexis Stewart tells New York Magazine, at one point

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Speaker 6: she said, the five months were actually great.

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Speaker 4: Because it was the most free time.

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Speaker 1: It was enforced rest, right, So it's.

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Speaker 6: Actually not that surprising that she comes out with all

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Speaker 6: of these books right after it.

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Speaker 1: Look what she can do when she can take some

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Speaker 1: time off, Yeah, create all this stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But within a year of her release, MSLO returned to profitability,

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Speaker 1: So that's a huge turnaround.

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Speaker 6: And then in September of twenty eleven, she returned to

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Speaker 6: the board of MSLO, which was the marking the end

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Speaker 6: of a five year band that she had from serving

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Speaker 6: on any kind of board or as executive of a

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Speaker 6: public company as part of her settlement with the SEC

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Speaker 6: over her insider trading charges. So obviously, on paper, Martha

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Speaker 6: Stewart is an incredibly savvy businesswoman who started out with

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Speaker 6: a catering business in her basement, and you know, is

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Speaker 6: now the head of this multimillion dollar corporation, and she

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Speaker 6: somehow recovered from going to jail over insider trading charges.

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Speaker 4: But the real question on my mind, and probably on listeners' minds.

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Speaker 6: Too, is what does Martha Stewart really mean maybe for

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Speaker 6: women in general, like that whole question of whether or

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Speaker 6: not all of these.

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Speaker 4: All that good housekeeping that she.

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Speaker 6: Espouses, if it's worth our time, the kind of time

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Speaker 6: that you obviously have to dedicate on a Tuesday to

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Speaker 6: making chicken stock, to freeze.

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Speaker 4: Things like that.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's like, is it realistic? That's kind of

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Speaker 6: Martha Stewart fantasy.

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Speaker 1: Right, and New York The New York Times magazine did

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Speaker 1: ask her that, I mean, is it the best use

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Speaker 1: of modern women's time to make pillows out of their

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Speaker 1: husband's old shirts? And she she kind of got a

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Speaker 1: little a little defensive.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she was icy with that question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you could you could feel the frost

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Speaker 1: on that piece of paper while it was on my computer,

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Speaker 1: but you get the idea. But yeah, she was basically

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Speaker 1: arguing that that's not really the issue. It's if people

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Speaker 1: enjoy it and want to be creative. It's better to

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Speaker 1: make a pillow out of a shirt than having it

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Speaker 1: end up on the trash heap.

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Speaker 4: Right, or going and buying a pillow. The whole kind

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Speaker 4: of diy type.

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Speaker 6: Of thing that she you could say, she's partially responsible

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Speaker 6: for kicking off.

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Speaker 1: But don't call her a feminist.

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Speaker 6: No, No, she had an interesting thing to say about

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Speaker 6: feminism and male ambition and female pursuits. She said, quote,

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Speaker 6: I don't think in a male or female way. I

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Speaker 6: don't differentiate between male and female.

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Speaker 4: I never have.

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Speaker 6: I'm not considered a feminist. Do we really need to

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Speaker 6: waste time saying I'm a feminist. I never thought about

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Speaker 6: glass dealings. I never thought about glass floors me neither.

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Speaker 6: That sounds dangerous.

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Speaker 4: I was thinking about how.

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Speaker 6: Many pies I can come up with for my Pies

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Speaker 6: and Tarts book. Those are all original ideas.

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Speaker 1: So here she's saying, why bother talking about whether I'm

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Speaker 1: a feminist or whether you're a feminist or feminism in general.

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Speaker 1: Just do what you're doing, and I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was an interesting point. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was kind of refreshing in a way. I

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Speaker 1: think she's doing incredible things for a woman, you know,

444
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: running this company. She had her hand in just everything.

445
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: It's it's I think it's really impressive. It's just kind

446
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: of like, oh, wow, you're you're pretty. I don't know,

447
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: does it seems like she's against feminism or she just

448
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: doesn't even want to bother with it.

449
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 4: I think I can.

450
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 6: I think it's an issue of not wanting to bother

451
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 6: with it, because it's it's the whole argument of is

452
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 6: this so impressive.

453
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 4: That I've done this? Because I've done this as a woman.

454
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 6: If I were a man running the same company, you

455
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 6: wouldn't be so blown away.

456
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, you wouldn't be asking me these same questions.

457
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 6: So it's it seems like it may be ticked off

458
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 6: a thing in her brain, and she's like me.

459
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: Pies and tart. I'm just I am a mogul who

460
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: makes pie. Just leave me alone. And you know, glass floors,

461
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: stay off them.

462
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 6: And Anne Mason and Marian Myers and two thousand and

463
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 6: six conducted in depth interviews with ten Martha Stewart fans

464
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 6: to kind of.

465
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 4: See if they could get into.

466
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 6: The why of her appeal, especially because there is that

467
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 6: whole fantasy aspect of it. I mean, how many parodies

468
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 6: have we seen of Martha Stewart and her incredibly lofty

469
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 6: crafting projects.

470
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't pursue them, like I said,

471
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: I mean, the magazine intimidates me.

472
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 6: Just looking at the cover, right, because it is a

473
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 6: lot to live up to, but apparently, according to these

474
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 6: in depth interviews, that is part of the appeal.

475
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Much of what they say is that much of

476
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: what Stuart presents in her media has traditionally been considered

477
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: quote unquote women's work. But she's she's presenting it in

478
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: a different way. And we kind of touched on this earlier.

479
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: It's it's giving women, as they say Mason and Meyer say,

480
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: it's giving women the permission to be interested in the

481
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: domestic arena because she's not doing like like we said earlier,

482
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: it's not like her show is about doing the laundry

483
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: and separating the whites and the darks. It's it's something

484
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: that maybe women can be like, Oh well I do

485
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: like crafts, Yeah, I do like baking. Why should I

486
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: feel like I'm not being a feminist or not being

487
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: powerful or not making myself happy? You know, I just

488
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: want to make pies?

489
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, exactly.

490
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 6: I mean there's a definite value to that, and that

491
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 6: it's not like you have to in order to accept

492
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 6: feminist ideology, you have to reject X activities.

493
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: Right, just like traditional traditional women's.

494
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 4: Roles, you can be a feminist baker.

495
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the Myers and Mason concluded that Stuart plays

496
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 6: three main roles in the lives of the super fans.

497
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 6: It encourages the fantasy of an upper class lifestyle of

498
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 6: elegance and luxury, obviously because you know that's really the

499
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 6: only way you would have time to do all the

500
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 6: things on her to do list. It provides an escape

501
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 6: from the daily lives, validating the women's interests in domesticity.

502
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 4: And it also fosters.

503
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 6: Creativity and feelings of accomplishment and pride among those who

504
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 6: complete projects and recipes. And I have endless admiration for

505
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 6: friends of mine who are crafty and handy.

506
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I am not.

507
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: I can't draw anything.

508
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I enjoy cooking, But when it comes to crafting.

509
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I can't cut a straight line.

510
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. I blame that though on me being left handed

511
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: with scissors.

512
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: I blame it on I have nothing to blame it on.

513
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 4: I just try you use a steak knife instead of scissors.

514
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: Construction, stab the paper, tear with my teeth. But these

515
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: two writers point out that not only is Martha Start

516
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: providing all of these outlets for your creativity and your

517
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: and your baking tendencies, but she's giving you a lot

518
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: of ways to do it. Yeah. Because of her radio

519
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: shows and her books, and her magazines, and her TV

520
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: shows and now her daughter's show and and all this stuff,

521
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: you have the ability to watch or listen or read

522
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: whenever you want kind of and and make it fit

523
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: your lifestyle.

524
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 6: And she has such a big emphasis on organization and

525
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 6: play and scheduling.

526
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 4: I'm sure those are a number of lessons that I

527
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 4: could probably learn from Martha Stewart.

528
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 6: And Joan Holloway and Rachel Moseley write about Martha Stewart

529
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 6: as well and feminism and popular culture, and they claim

530
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 6: that she is a housewife who is not a housewife,

531
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 6: which I think is an interesting point, and also that

532
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 6: her world is a sublime reversal of the feminist domestic

533
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 6: labor debate in the nineteen seventies.

534
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 4: I'm assuming by opening up.

535
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 6: That door to allow saying it's okay to appreciate certain

536
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 6: aspects of domesticity while still being an independent, multi millionaire

537
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 6: woman running her own empire.

538
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I would.

539
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 6: Argue that in the real world, as opposed to the

540
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 6: Martha world perhaps, and Crafters and other people out.

541
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 4: There listening, I'm very curious to get your in your

542
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 4: feedback on this.

543
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 6: But I would argue that in the real world, perhaps

544
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 6: the echo of Martha Stewart is the whole rebirth of

545
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 6: and DIY and Etsy and huge projects like that.

546
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: It seems to have, I don't know, benefited a lot

547
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: of women's lives. Yeah, and men sure are they're crafty men. Yeah, yeah,

548
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: I mean if she, if she inspires anyone to follow

549
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: their interests, that's great. I happen to have a couple

550
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: of friends who make really neat things on Etsy. I

551
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: can't do it, but I admire them for doing it.

552
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: M hm. So I think all in all, we can

553
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: say that Martha Stewart's a pretty polarizing figure. She sort

554
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: of reminds me of Oprah in in some ways. How

555
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: some people love her and some people just can't stand her.

556
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: And you know, she shapes maybe what people are are

557
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: interested in by what she presents her in her media.

558
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean it's kind of this thing of

559
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 4: is she.

560
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 7: The champion of crafting in a rebirth and appreciation of

561
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 7: DIY and domesticity, or is she, as she's been called,

562
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 7: an uber wasp and chief executive housewife archetype of white

563
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 7: femininity and immigrant.

564
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: Dream A nice quote. Yeah, So what do you think?

565
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: Do you like do you like Martha? Do you do

566
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: you follow her shows? Do you do her crafts, baker

567
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: pies and tarts? Or are you like weird? Does she

568
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: creep you out? I don't know any any thoughts at all,

569
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: anywhere in between.

570
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 4: You can send them our way. It's mom stuff at

571
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 4: HowStuffWorks dot com, or if you would like to send

572
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: us a hen crafted letter on on balsam wood stationery,

573
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: we have an.

574
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 6: Snale mail address too that you can find at HowStuffWorks

575
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 6: dot com.

576
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: And in the meantime, we got a couple of letters

577
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 4: here printed out on copy paper white.

578
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 6: I've got one here from Sarah and this was in

579
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 6: response to our man flu episode in which we mentioned

580
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 6: something called cytomegalovirus and she writes it was treated with

581
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 6: some disdain in your man flu episode. And this was

582
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 6: disappointing because according to the March of Dimes, it is

583
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 6: the most most common congenital infection in the United States,

584
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 6: as forty thousand.

585
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: Babies are born with CMB.

586
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 6: This will cause mental retardation in a whole host of

587
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 6: disabling conditions. In four thousand of them. On a personal note,

588
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 6: from age thirteen to sixteen, I lived with a stepbrother

589
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 6: who was one of those four thousand. He's few years

590
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 6: older than me and suffered moderate mental retardation as well

591
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 6: as hearing loss and mildfoot and like deformities. Throughout the

592
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 6: time he lived with us, he watched both myself and

593
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 6: his biological sister go through all the typical.

594
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: Teenage milestones, knowing that he would never experience them for himself.

595
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 6: He was just intelligent enough to know that he had

596
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 6: problems and that he would never be able to live

597
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 6: a normal life. At one point, he asked why he

598
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 6: had to be born with all of this and how

599
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 6: his life was.

600
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 4: Going to be, and he was very bitter most of

601
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 4: the time.

602
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 6: This had a huge impact on my views on abortion

603
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 6: and was my first step towards feminism.

604
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: So thanks for pointing that out.

605
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 6: About cytomegalovirus CMB and you can find out more information

606
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 6: about it at Marchofdimes dot com.

607
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: From Morgan This is about our Imaginary Friend podcast, she said,

608
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm a girl, second child, and I had about twenty

609
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: different imaginary friends. It could have been because I'm homeschooled

610
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: and was lonely. I don't know, because my older brother

611
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: had one as well. The one I remember most was

612
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: a monster from the book There's a Nightmare in My Closet.

613
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: I was very scared of it as a kid, but

614
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: for some reason, I watched the movie and read the

615
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: book thirty times a day. And how I got my

616
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: imaginary friend was that I was in a car and

617
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: it was very dark, and the monster smashed against the

618
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: window and followed me home, and I was very scared,

619
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: but he wouldn't leave me alone, so we became friends.

620
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: Kind of strange, I guess, because he always protected me

621
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: after we were friends. Thanks Morgan, I like that story

622
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: so again.

623
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 4: If you have any thoughts to send our away about

624
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 4: Martha Stewart? Is she a good thing? Forgot to drop

625
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 4: her key catchphrase this entire podcast? Yeah, is Martha Stewart

626
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 4: a good thing?

627
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 6: Let us know mom Stuff at housetuffworks dot com, or

628
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 6: you can leave a comment up on our Facebook page

629
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 6: or shout out on Twitter at moms Stuff Podcast, and

630
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 6: you can also check out the blog during the week

631
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 6: It's stuff Mom Never Told You at HowStuffWorks dot com.

632
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 4: Be sure to check out our new video podcast Stuff

633
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 4: from the future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we

634
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 4: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The

635
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: House Stuffworks iPhone app has a rived.

636
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 7: Download it today on iTunes, brought.

637
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 4: To you by the reinvented twenty twelve camera. It's ready,

638
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 4: are you