1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:01,920 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 2: So what I learned now is my biggest regret was 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: I should have been talking to him every day going 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 2: over there, you know. And it's funny because we all 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 2: run into that now our parents are passing away, or 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: as you know, our friends are passing away, and you go, 7 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: you hold on. You just don't ask those questions. You 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: don't go over there and talk more. You're afraid. I 9 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: don't know what it is, but I could have gone 10 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: over there with a gussette player and ask them things, 11 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: because in the end, it's really now what it looks like. 12 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: It's the message, and that's where it's important. It's about 13 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: the message. So you're going to have black screen. If 14 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: he told me something really important, that would have been 15 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: just as good. 16 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: I'm buzz Night, your host of the Taking a Walk podcast, 17 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: the podcast that digs deep into the inside stories of 18 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: musicians and their creative process. If you like our podcasts, 19 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: share with your friends and leave us a review on 20 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're 21 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: proud to be part of the iHeart podcast Network. On 22 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to speak with filmmaker and history 23 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: Denny to Desco. Denny is responsible for some great music documentaries, 24 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: The Wrecking Crew, telling the story of some of the 25 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: greatest session players of all time, including Denny's father, Tommy 26 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: Tedesco who was part of the Wrecking Crew, Glenn Campbell 27 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: who was part of the Wrecking Crew, Leon Russell unbelievable musicians. 28 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: Denny is also the man behind The Immediate Family documentary 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: about the great La session guys Waddie Wachtel and Leland Skla, 30 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: Russell Kunkle, all the guys. The Immediate Family, another great documentary. 31 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: Let's talk to Denny Todsco now on Taking a Walk. Denny, 32 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: thanks for being on Taking a Walk podcast. So what's 33 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: the most important trait that you learned from your father 34 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Tommy Tedesco. 35 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: I think the thing with dad. You know, Dad, I 36 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: never learned by the way, let's start with I am 37 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 2: not a musician. I never figured out the third chord. 38 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: I continue to try, so music was not something he 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: taught me. But what I saw him, the respect that 40 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: people had for him was because he was so kind 41 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: to so many people. You didn't matter if you were 42 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: the guard at the gate or you know, one of 43 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: the great stars. I mean, they had such respect for 44 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: him and it's because he was kind. 45 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: You know. 46 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 2: He taught the students when he did the seminars, he 47 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: would tell him, if you get you could be in 48 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: a job and you could be one hundred and twenty 49 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: percent right. He said, don't blow up on the leader. 50 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: If you're going to blow up on the leader, that's fine, 51 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: but remember you're not coming back the next day. So 52 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 2: you have to make that decision about how to control 53 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: your emotions, you know, which is not easy. And I 54 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: think I'd learned that I'm not as good as he 55 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: was about it. You know, sometimes my emotions get to me. 56 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: But I've always felt like I've always been kind, you know. 57 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: I always try to be kind to people I work 58 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: with and nobody, you know, just folks. You meet people 59 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: on the road or every day and you just want 60 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: to I want to know people, and that's what I get, 61 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: you know. That's probably what I've learned the most. 62 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: When did you first comprehend the magnitude of what your 63 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: father was up to with his musical career and with 64 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: the what the rest of the wrecking crew was up to? 65 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: And for those that may not have seen the documentary, 66 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: it's one of the great music documentary is one of 67 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: the great stories of all time. But when did you 68 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: first comprehend the magnitude? 69 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: It's funny, it's two different answers there. I didn't realize 70 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: dad's work was different. Dad just want to work like 71 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: every other dad. He had, you know, instead of a 72 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: saw or drill or hammer in the car, he had 73 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: a telecaster, an acoustic, a mandolin, a banjo, and an 74 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: amp or whatever he had in the car, and that 75 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: was what he did. He went to work. I never 76 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: saw dad work at I never saw Dad play guitar 77 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: at home, so I knew he was a guitar player. 78 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: But did it make sense when you're five years old, 79 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: eight years old, ten years old, whatever. It wasn't until 80 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 2: high school, just a little before high school that someone said, oh, 81 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: I saw your dad's name on the Partridge Family album, 82 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: and I realized he was on that. But it started, oh, 83 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: that's interesting, you know, people recognize that. And then it 84 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: was later in high school when he started doing his 85 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 2: own work for his own jazz album. Then I started 86 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: seeing him playing at home. He never played at home 87 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: because he didn't have to practice, you know what I mean. 88 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: It wasn't like he'd sit there for hours practicing. I 89 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 2: never saw him play. So now he's doing his jazz 90 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: album in nineteen seventy six, seventy seven and eight, whatever, 91 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: and he's working on arrangements, working on things, and now 92 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: he's on the radio under his own name. So that 93 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: kind of got me going. But it wasn't until I 94 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: started doing the Wrecking Crew documentary that it realized the 95 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: impact that he and his friends had on American music 96 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: in the sixties. And even today I still learned things 97 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: I didn't realize he was on this or on that, 98 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 2: And it blows my mind the impact these musicians had. 99 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: Were you ever in the car with him listening to 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: the radio and where you heard music he had played 101 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: on come on? 102 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: No, no, because that was the other thing. Dad didn't 103 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: realize unless it was like maybe, I mean again, I 104 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: don't remember. First of all, Dad never listened to music 105 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: when I don't remember Dad ever listening to music in 106 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 2: the car, which is really interesting because I remember Mom 107 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 2: driving with music on and radio, but Dad never because 108 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: that was work. Dad always listened to baseball or football, 109 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 2: whatever it was going on at the time, And you 110 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: never saw him come home and turn on music at 111 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: home because don't realize he's been gone twelve fourteen hours 112 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: a day playing music, all kinds of music. So I 113 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: think he needed it, always needed that break from in 114 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: his head. I'm sure he did. I mean, he must 115 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: have been listening to something, you know, jazz albums and 116 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 2: stuff he wanted to listen to do. But he also 117 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: the other thing is Dad didn't know what he was 118 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: playing on. Sometimes you realize. The great example is Jimmy 119 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: Webb gave him a little charm of a recki Evan Rey, sorry, 120 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: a little Grammy charm when Up Up and Away won 121 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: a Grammy and he says, what's this for it? He goes, 122 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: this is for the Up, Up and Away song that 123 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: we did with the Fifth Dimension last year. And my 124 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: dad didn't even know he was on it. Now here's 125 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: what's odd. If you listen Up, Up and Away, you 126 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: know it's Tim because he's got the his acoustic you know, 127 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: latin run through it, so you know that's him and 128 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: the other. But the thing is you realize Dad goes 129 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,239 Speaker 2: to work, this guy sit down to throwing a piece 130 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: of paper. Usually was just the rhythm tracks, it was 131 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: just tracking dates. The artists aren't even there, so they're 132 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: doing that. Maybe an hour, here's another one, another one. 133 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: So they've done three or four songs in three hours. 134 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: Move on. They're not recording hits, they're recording songs. They 135 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: don't become hits. A hit becomes after you hear it. 136 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: Many times, that's when you start recognizing something, unless there's 137 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: something specific about the date. Maybe, but he had no 138 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: idea what he was working on. Most of the time. 139 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: Strangers in the Night was different because you know, that's Sinatra, 140 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: that was a different date. You know that you kind 141 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: of remember things. But most of the time, you know, 142 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: you realize he's been given twelve pieces of music a day, 143 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: five days a week, at sixty something pieces, and if 144 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: it's movies, well then it's just cues being being being, 145 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: you know. So I don't think he knew and a lot 146 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: of stuff he thought he was on he wasn't on, 147 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 2: And likewise, things he didn't know he was on he 148 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: was on. So and it happened with all of them. 149 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: How as well, what's so crazy is how and you 150 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: talk about this in the documentary, just how it's unclear 151 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: completely how many people were actually you know, truly members 152 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: of the wrecking crew or how long they were and 153 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: the way. It sort of was different places in different 154 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: times because it was moving parts, and that surprised you 155 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: as you further delved into. 156 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: No, not at all, because here's the thing. The record 157 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: crew of the name. Let's clear it up for everybody 158 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: out there. The name is called the Reking Crew because 159 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: how was writing a book in nineteen ninety and he 160 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: was telling the publisher this is what the publisher told me. 161 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: He said, how I would always tell the story, which 162 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: is true. 163 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: How Blaine. 164 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: Sorry for those Yeah, sorry, the drummer hal Blaine was 165 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: always telling the story these older guys, because don't forget 166 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: my dad is even though he's thirty in nineteen sixty, 167 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: these guys are playing rock and roll and demos and 168 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: stuff like that in nineteen sixty, which the older musicians 169 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: in town, the established movie guys, they're not going to 170 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: take these dates. They're not going to take these recordings 171 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: because they could risk a lot of money on a 172 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: movie date, which could be a week, and they're not 173 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 2: going to do a demo for twenty five bucks. Well, 174 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: if these guys Dad and hal Blaine and Don Randy 175 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: and Leon Russell and all these other folks in Glenn Campbell, 176 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: they're going to take it because they're not. They're still 177 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: starting out at this point and they established this thing. 178 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: So how comes up with the idea that this name? 179 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 2: Later in the nineties he says, the older guy said, 180 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: they're going to wreck the business playing this rock and roll. 181 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: So publisher said, that's a great name for the book, 182 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 2: and the books goes off. So if there's any controversy 183 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: of that is that it's like, was it there? Was 184 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: it not? None of the people I interviewed remember the name, 185 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: and so it was like, it's not about how many 186 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: were in it, it's about there were fourteen, maybe fifteen 187 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: people in the studio sometimes that were always in the studio, 188 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: and they were always the same people. You could have 189 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 2: Earl Palmer on drums, you could have Al Blaine on drums. 190 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 2: You always had maybe two three to four guitar players. 191 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: You had u from young woman and bass players. You 192 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: had different bass players because you had a stand up 193 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: bass which could be maybe Chuck Bergoffer or Lyle Rix, 194 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: and then you were bass guitar but in a more 195 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: of a troubled kind of thing, and that was maybe 196 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 2: Bill Pittman or Raye Pullman, and then you had a 197 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: bass player. Yeah. So what happened was in the studio. 198 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: You know, you had a contractor who was the producer, says, hey, 199 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: get this is the arrangements. We need these guys. And 200 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: they would call the contractor. We call people, so if 201 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 2: so and so wasn't available, they get so and so so. 202 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: There was no set crew, there was no set band. 203 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 2: You know, you had your usuals obviously. You know, Lou 204 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: Adler had his group of you know, Joe Sarahs, you know, 205 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 2: has his people and these are all producers and Snuff Garrett, 206 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: you know, had his folks. So they would just go 207 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: in and knock it out. Now here's where it's really 208 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: crazy is in those days, in the early sixties, there's 209 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: only one track. There's only it's mono. So Glen Campbell, 210 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: who was one of the great guitar players in the 211 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: studios at the time, he said, I was playing with 212 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 2: Michael Jordan. Everybody in the room was a Michael Jordan though. 213 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: He said, you can't make a mistake. You have three 214 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: hours to go in and go out, because you know what, 215 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: we all have a gig at one o'clock. We can't 216 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: be messing around. We got nine to twelve. We don't 217 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: mess around, because we got to be at the next recording. 218 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: So if anybody's making a mistake, you're got to start 219 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: all over. You don't have the computers to punch in 220 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: at bar thirty two and pick up from there. So 221 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: if you start making a mistake multiple times, everybody's looking 222 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: at you, you're not coming back. And that's how it 223 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: was moving so fast. So that's why in the Wrecking Crew, 224 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 2: I have one hundred and ten songs, and I had 225 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 2: the leisure of putting at least another fifty to sixty 226 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: songs in there. You know, if I really started to 227 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: dig in deep unds other stuff. It was a factory. 228 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a negative way. You 229 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: could take it as a negative way, but that's the 230 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: way the business was. The labels realized if we put 231 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: out we can make money. If it gets on AM radio, 232 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: it helps each other. They now were nailing it, so 233 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: we need product, and these were the guys to do it. 234 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: They were the ones that could knock it out fast. 235 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 2: There was no messing around, And people said, well, well 236 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: did the bands play. Yeah, the bands could play, but 237 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: they weren't that good. Sometimes in the studio you don't 238 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 2: you know, a great example, And Roger mcgwinn said, with 239 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 2: the Birds now Terry Meltzer is producing it now. David 240 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 2: Crosby interviewed him later. He's very upset with that whole 241 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 2: idea of the wrecking crew going in. But Terry Meltzer said, hey, 242 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: we had a number one head. We got in in 243 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: three hours. Terry was the only one that they led. 244 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: Not Terry Meltzer. I'm so sorry. Roger mcgwinn said, I 245 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 2: was the only one that was allowed in the Birds 246 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: to play on it. I sang and played twelve stern. 247 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: But they had Hal Blaine, Bill Pittman, Leon and Joe 248 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 2: Osborne and they knocked out tambourine Man and the A 249 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: side and the B side. They did that in three hours. 250 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 2: He said. When we did Turn Turn Turn, it was 251 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: seventy seven. Takes both number one hits. It's just a 252 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 2: different way of getting there. So Terry Meltcher as a producer, 253 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: his goal is to get in and get out. If 254 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: you don't have a single hit, if you don't start 255 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 2: having hits right off at those times, that's it. Move 256 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: on another group. So your goal is to get on 257 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: the charts, and that's how it worked. 258 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: Had you ever, prior to do in the documentary, run 259 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: into any members of the Wrecking Crew in your life? 260 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: No, the only ones. It's funny because Dad kept it 261 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: pretty separate his life. Was said, we didn't hang out 262 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 2: with musician families, which is so interesting. Dad was a gambler. 263 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: So the folks, if they were musicians that gambled, Yeah, 264 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: we hung out. I meaning I saw my card games 265 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: at home. If there were Italian there was Italian nights. 266 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 2: I saw Hell once in a while. But I didn't 267 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: meet Don Randy till many years later. I didn't meet 268 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 2: Carol or any of them until years later, until I 269 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 2: started making the film. But the only one I really 270 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: saw with Snuff Garrett, because he was a major gambler 271 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: and he and Dad were you know, you know, friends, 272 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: and they just came in card games. And I remember 273 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: Dad or Snuff would come and he had he was rich. 274 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: You know. That's how I remember he was rich because 275 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 2: he had a Rolls Royce and he had a driver 276 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: to drive him. And you know when you had a 277 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: little kid that was look at that and I'd say 278 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: good night. I'd go and kiss my dad good night. 279 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: When the den where they were playing cards in a 280 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: smoke filled room. You can imagine it's probably still he 281 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: could scrape off the DNA of the smoke. You go there, 282 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: I say good night, kiss him good night, and go 283 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: to bed. The next morning, I go to school, I go, 284 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: couldn't go back into the same room, good morning, goodbye, 285 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: and going to school, kiss them again, and the smoke 286 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: is still there. They're still gambling twelve hours later. I 287 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: mean they were addicts. These guys serious and they i'd 288 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: been serious and they snuff. Would tell me later, he goes, oh, 289 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: we'd be going. We have a lot of o'clock date. No, 290 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: we could do Come on, one more hand, one more hand. 291 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 2: We could do it. We could do it. Yeah. They 292 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: would just go right to the last minute before they 293 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: have to leave for work. 294 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: Who influenced your interviews style? 295 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: Well, the first the thing I did with the round 296 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: tables on both films. I loved Broadway. Danny Rose, the 297 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: film with Woody Allen where he plays this just a 298 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: weird manager of weird acts. And what I remember in 299 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: the film was a bunch of managers or agents sitting 300 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: in a deli talking about this guy Danny Rose, and 301 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: I realized that was what I remembered at those card 302 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: games or dinners with those guys, you know, when people 303 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: were hanging out the banter. I loved being a voyeur 304 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: because I'm just a you know, little kid listening in 305 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: and I thought that was the greatest thing. So when 306 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: I put the roundtable together, I put them all in 307 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: the card table literally in the studio, and let throw 308 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: out a question, let them go, and that let into 309 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: other things. So that's how it worked, and then I 310 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: did it was at the time I was working on 311 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: these other shows off a TV land. There were this 312 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: guy named Robert Small was the producer and director. Watching 313 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 2: the guys interview people, you know, I started learning about it. 314 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: You let them answer the question, let it go longer. 315 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: Sometimes I will. I've learned to not jump in at 316 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: the end of an interview. You know it's at the end. 317 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: Don't go Okay, thank you, that's it. I try to 318 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: let it go in long pauses because what happens is 319 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: they're still thinking and something might come out. A great 320 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: example was the last question I had with Don Henley 321 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: in for Immediate Family. He was talking about, you know, 322 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: Don Henley as a solo artist. Danny Kachmar of the 323 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 2: media family or the band. He was his producer and 324 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: he's the one that encouraged him to do a solo act. 325 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: And they don't get along. They really, you know, they 326 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: haven't talked in years, probably, But Don Henley was so 327 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: kind to do this interview. And I let that interview 328 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: go long. I mean not long. That last question. I 329 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 2: let it go and I just sat there and he 330 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: out of nowhere he goes. You know, I got to say, 331 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: he said, you know, I give Danny all the credit 332 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: in the world for me becoming a solo artist, because 333 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: if it wasn't for Danny, I want to be here. 334 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: That's huge for someone that they don't care for each other. 335 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 2: And that's only because the pause and the uncomfortableness and 336 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: maybe silence. Sometimes they'll give you more than you expect. 337 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: You don't know. It's a long shot, but no, I've 338 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: learned a lot. Let it breathe, right, Yeah, I still continue. 339 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: I mean there's interviews that are great and there's interviews 340 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: that are bad. Sometimes it's my fault. Sometimes there's no 341 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 2: control I have over it. 342 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: So for the Wreck and crew, easiest interview or interviews 343 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: and Jimmy Webb, I love Jimmy and most difficult interview. 344 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Jimmy Webb amazing, absolutely amazing. You know, I'm 345 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: shooting at this time. That time, I was shooting tape, 346 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 2: and I remember saying to an hour tape, giving it 347 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: to the editor to say, here, you got sixty minutes 348 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 2: of gold. You could put a number, any number of 349 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 2: sixty minutes, to say thirty two, and that whatever you 350 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: said was could be in it. That's how good it was. 351 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: I mean, he was so poetic, so articulate. Everything about 352 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 2: it was good and great. Most difficult. I always laugh 353 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: about this because it was Brian Wilson, the opposite, both 354 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 2: of them pop music's greatest writers. But you know, we 355 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: know there was you know, Brian went through a lot 356 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 2: of hell in his life, so it was a lot 357 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: of damage. And I remember shooting film at the time, 358 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 2: and when you're shooting film, you have eleven minutes a role, 359 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: so you have to also be conscious when you're shooting film, 360 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,719 Speaker 2: don't shoot anymore film, But you don't start your interview 361 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 2: right off the bat, you don't. I would not roll 362 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: film until I warmed the guy up or the person up, 363 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: because I don't want to waste any good stuff or 364 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: I don't want to waste any bad stuff. For the 365 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 2: first five minutes, I want to throw, you know, get 366 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 2: him warmed up and hang and then I would touch 367 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: my camera person and to start rolling without them knowing. 368 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: So I had eleven minutes of roll. I had five 369 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: rolls fifty five minutes, and I thought, okay, I got 370 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: three pages of questions. I'll put them, make sure I 371 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: got the best questions up front, just in case, you know, 372 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: something happens. And at the end of the interview I 373 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 2: had all three pages of questions answered and I only 374 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: had one role shot, which means it's a horrible interview. 375 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: Eleven minutes of Oh my god, what did I just do? 376 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 2: And it was because you couldn't get past the one 377 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 2: word answers yes, no, no, And it was just that 378 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: he wouldn't articulate anything. He wouldn't, you know, no matter 379 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 2: how I presented it, it didn't go anywhere. R It's 380 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 2: very you know, that's is Brian. And at the end 381 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 2: he walked out. I was so depressed and I said, wow, 382 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: I said it out loud. I just waited eight years 383 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 2: for that, and my dpe, she goes eight years. Eleven 384 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: minutes it's like. 385 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: Oh, man, wow, now I know you waited a long 386 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: time when you were in the process of the wrecking 387 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: crew to do the interview with your with your dad, 388 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: and at that point your dad's health had deteriorated. That 389 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: must have been a terrible lesson to learn, right, meaning waiting, Yeah, that. 390 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: Was the lesson I looked because I started, Yeah, well exactly, 391 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 2: and I started that's very great question because I started 392 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 2: when I was shooting film again. I shot sixteen the 393 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 2: first days. You know, that was me being a director 394 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: with a oh I want to look like this. You know, 395 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: my youth kind of got to me and I wanted 396 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: to shoot the film, which gives you, like I said, 397 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: it's hard. You got ac assistant cameraman prepping the camera, 398 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: you got this, this, this, there's more to it than 399 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 2: just getting a video camera shooting. And so shut the 400 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: round table on film and Dad's Did you know? Dad 401 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: was diagnosed and they gave him eleven minutes or eleven minutes, 402 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, eleven months. So by the time I got 403 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 2: to Dad about you know, he'd lasted a year and 404 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 2: a half. By the time I got to him about 405 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: a year later, with the film crew and stuff. He 406 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: had become very weak, so that energy you see in 407 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: the film is gone, and that was not something I 408 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: wanted to be. I didn't want him to be remembered 409 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 2: by and the questions. It was hard. So what I 410 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 2: learned there is my biggest regret, was I should have 411 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: been talking to him every day, going over there, you know. 412 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: And it's funny because we all run into that now 413 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: our parents are passing away or you know, our friends 414 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 2: are passing away, and you go, you hold on. You 415 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 2: just don't ask the questions. You don't go over there 416 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: and talk more. You're afraid. I don't know what it is, 417 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: but I could have gone over there with a cassette 418 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 2: player and ask him things, because in the end, it's 419 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: really now what it looks like, it's the message and 420 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: that's where it's important, is about the message. So you 421 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 2: could have black screen if he told me something really important, 422 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 2: that would have been just as good. 423 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with the Taken a Walk Podcast. 424 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. I do 425 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: have to ask you about Jim Gordon, the great drummer 426 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: who was part of the wrecking crew, who was incredible 427 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: as a musician and had quite the career, you know, 428 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: co writing credits on Layla and just an endless you 429 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: know string, but also a tragic and dying in prison 430 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: after the terrible tragedy with his mother. Any thoughts or 431 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: things you uncovered about Jim Gordon No. 432 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting because there were three drummers at 433 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 2: the time. There was how Earl comes first, he's a 434 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: little older than how By a couple of years, Earl 435 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 2: establishes a lot Earl Palmer, then How's there Hal Blaine, 436 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 2: and then Jim Gordon. Everybody had their favorite. A lot 437 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 2: of people had Jim as their favorite boy. He was 438 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 2: an amazing drummer, an amazing drummer and percussionist, so a 439 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: lot of times he was always just playing percussion on 440 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: the sessions. It was very sad because I wanted to 441 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: I even tried to get a hold of We got 442 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 2: ahold of the prison, thinking well, maybe he's well enough 443 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 2: to speak, because I was always thinking, you know, maybe 444 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 2: he's the one that knows everything, Maybe he knows what 445 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: they did not to go into the tragedy at the time. 446 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 2: This is again way long time ago, nineteen ninety nine 447 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: or whatever, but people just saw him decay. It sounded 448 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: like it sounded like it went slowly and then all 449 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: of a sudden towards the end, it was just you know, 450 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 2: he was sick. And it's interesting because I have a 451 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 2: Facebook page of the Wrecking Crew and it's done really well. 452 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 2: It's one hundred and seventy five thousand people, the fans 453 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 2: of the music and the people or the musicians. If 454 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: you put something on there about Phil Spector, like his 455 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: anniversary of his birth or something, you know, just not something, 456 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what it is, you will have people 457 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 2: going crazy. How dare you? You know, da da da da? 458 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: You about to be talking about the music? Nothing to 459 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 2: do with him. We don't glorify him, but people have 460 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: a reaction to it. When Jim Gordon died a couple 461 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 2: of years ago, the reaction was different, and I think 462 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: it is, you know, a horrible crime of killing his mother, 463 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 2: but there was a sickness involved. He was, you know, 464 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 2: psychotic or schizophrenic, and there was I think people understood 465 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: there was that sickness, and I think it was a 466 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: very interesting thing and seeing how people reacted to him dying, so. 467 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: It is this is something I know, you know, Joel 468 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: Selvin and Joel has been on the podcast, and Joel says, 469 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: how you know, the music business allows or tolerates drug 470 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: addicts and alcoholics and devians, but mental illness comes along 471 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: and they sort of turned their back on somebody. And 472 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: he said that the music industry sort of turned its 473 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: back on Jim Gordon. I think one of the only 474 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: people who stayed in some touch with him, he said, 475 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: was there's maybe two people, but one was Jackson Brown. 476 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that. I know Jackson did because 477 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 2: I know Hal tried to stay in touch with him, 478 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: and how got a note back written in scribble He 479 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 2: wanted to come up and visit and said, no, how 480 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 2: don't you you know? But that's great that Jackson did. 481 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 2: Here's the thing the problem with our business in film 482 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: and TV, and I think it's gotten a lot better 483 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: with the me too movements and these other movements. You 484 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: can't get away with what you got away with sometimes 485 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: last you know, in those past, especially in when the 486 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,239 Speaker 2: studio players in those days, in the early days, they 487 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 2: weren't so much in the sixties, there wasn't so much 488 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: drug use. Maybe some pot and stuff, but they were 489 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: mostly probably guys that were drinking. But she still we 490 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: had to perform. There was a like I said earlier 491 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 2: with Glenn Campbell said, you had to be there, you 492 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: had to nail it because we don't have time to 493 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: mess around. There were those three hour sessions. Later when 494 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 2: there was the sessions went for days. Earl Palmer said, 495 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: he goes in the sixties we had recording dates. In 496 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 2: the seventies, he were recording projects. They could go weeks. 497 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 2: And that was the change, you know, So people tolerated 498 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 2: more bullshit, you know, from people. I'm hoping that changes. 499 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: And I think here's the other thing is no one 500 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: knew about maybe like a great example, the great percussion 501 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: player Julius Wecter. They didn't know what was wrong with Julius. 502 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: Julius had to recks. He just would go off, you know, 503 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: and whatever you did. No one knew what was wrong 504 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: with deliast. There was no diagnosis probably at the time, 505 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: or no one understood it. And I think that was 506 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: the same thing with probably Jim. They it just got 507 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 2: he's off, what the hell? You know? That's I think 508 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: that's what happens in those days. Hopefully it's better now. 509 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: I hope. So, so, what drove you to do the 510 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: Immediate Family documentary. 511 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: Nothing drove me to do that. It came to me 512 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: because that was you know, for those who't know, the 513 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: wrecord group I started in ninety six didn't come out 514 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 2: till twenty fifteen, so it was nineteen years when eight 515 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: came around. I finally got into festivals. I finally made 516 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 2: the thing, got into festivals, and was basically going in debt. 517 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,439 Speaker 2: I did go. I went bankrupt in the end, but 518 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: I had to pay off a half a million dollars 519 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: from two thousand and when it came out in eight, 520 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 2: I couldn't get a release because I couldn't pay for 521 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: the music yet I was in festivals, but that's different. 522 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 2: So I had to basically for the next seven years 523 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 2: pay off all those songs, one hundred and ten songs. 524 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 2: And it wasn't about the music industry holding me hostage. 525 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 2: It was about economics. People would look at these films 526 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 2: say they're not going to make any money, they're music docs. 527 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 2: Well I had to prove them wrong. So I came 528 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: out with every which way to raise money from a 529 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 2: bake sale on. I mean, I did everything, and I 530 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 2: had people dedicating songs. You know, at the end of 531 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: the movie. You see people dedicated song you know, be 532 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: my Baby or you know if Brian willgood vibrations, whatever. 533 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: So you give me a thousand dollars to get your 534 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: name on the end. So it took a long time 535 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: to get there. So I was shelf shocked and the 536 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: last thing I wanted to do was I want bankrupt. 537 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: I didn't want to do a music dog for sure. 538 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: Well my wife was not going to let me put 539 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: any money into a project. And then this came along 540 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 2: in twentynineighteen when producers came with an idea from Lisa Roy, 541 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: who was a fabulous publicist and she worked in the industry. 542 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: She ran She ran publicity for Media Family, and she said, 543 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: what about this to the guys, and they came to me, 544 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 2: So what do you think of this idea? And I said, 545 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 2: now I got that one. I totally understood that because 546 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: you've given me four I knew all the guys, knew 547 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: of all the guys, and not know all the guys. 548 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: Even he knew steps tell the guy that was the 549 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: young one, but I knew why he walked out. I 550 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: knew who he was. I knew who Russ Kunko was. 551 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: I knew dainty coach. I knew Leland Skillar, I knew 552 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 2: everybody who he were, and I thought, okay, I got that. 553 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 2: And the spin on that was they got a band 554 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: called Immediate Family. Okay, now I got control over it 555 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: because there's a hook to it, just like a song, 556 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: you need a hook, just you know, like the record 557 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 2: grew the name, there's a hook. I got it. And 558 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: so the difference between the media family and my dad's 559 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: group of musicians. These guys did the records and then 560 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: go on the road to support the records. That's a 561 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 2: big difference. 562 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: I love that one particular shot in the documentary. I 563 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: think they're in New York City. I believe all kind 564 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: of walking along and the joy of them all being 565 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 1: together just radiates at that moment. 566 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It's so funny because there's point it's 567 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 2: all real stuff. You know me obviously he set it 568 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: up to you. Let's just walk around them. I need 569 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: to get b roll blah blah blah. There's a point 570 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 2: where Leland is taking a picture of some tourists because 571 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 2: they came up to him. Excuse me, do you mind 572 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: taking a picture of us? You know, And you see 573 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 2: Leland like holding up their camera or their iPhone and 574 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: taking a picture and smiling, joking with them. That's all real. 575 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: There's that point at the end of the movie where 576 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 2: I see them walking towards us, and Leland says, hold on. 577 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 2: He stops and he turns totally left. He goes, there's 578 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: me and he turns off camera, walks off camera, and 579 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: he walks to the New York one of the windows, 580 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 2: the shop windows, and Santa Claus in the window and 581 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: cracks me up because it's real. 582 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, we had wadi On and Russ Kunkle as well. 583 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: So what was interesting about Russ Is And he said 584 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: this right out of the gate, because I was asking 585 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: him for some of those specific memories of certain sessions 586 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: and he said, he said, I got to stop you 587 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 1: right here for a second. He goes, because obviously I 588 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: remember the specialness of the event. I remember what a 589 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: joy it was being, you know, in the session with 590 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell as an example for Blue. He said, but 591 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: that's a long time ago to remember the deep specifics, 592 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: and that's a lot of years that have passed. And 593 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: I thought that was hysterical. But let me ask you, 594 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: as a great interviewer and someone a great read of 595 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: the person you're interviewing. How do you get more out 596 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: of somebody who says that. 597 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 2: That's a really good question. It's a really good question. 598 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: I don't know if I've learned that yet. I mean, 599 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 2: it's funny how it says things happen by accident all 600 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: the time. And the hardest part was when I get 601 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: when it did immediate Family. Don't forget the first one, 602 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: like I said, took nineteen years from beginning to end, 603 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: and I was still interviewing people for the DVD a 604 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 2: week before I had to turn that footage in in 605 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. So when I did Media Family, when the band, 606 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: when I said to the band, hey, this is my pitch, 607 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: Da da da, next day they said yes. And they 608 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 2: also said and Carol King could be interviewed in three weeks. 609 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I only have three weeks to think 610 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 2: about this. I don't know if I bullshited my way 611 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 2: through the first this first thing with these guys, you know, 612 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 2: I pitched them an idea. I don't know if I 613 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: really know this story because I'm you know, I'm sixty three, 614 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 2: so I'm a kid. I'm still a teenager. When all 615 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 2: this music's going down. I know of it, and I 616 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: you know some of it. To be honest, I never 617 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: listened to it. I was into other music, so I 618 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 2: went back and listened to everything, but I Carol King 619 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 2: in three weeks. I'm panicked. So now I started, I 620 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 2: start that I do that interview and do as much 621 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: information or much research as I can. I read a book, 622 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: and I read other books and went on, Well, there's 623 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: nothing worse than later you hear something from the next 624 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: interview about the Carroll. Well, you know, I mean, now 625 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: you can't go back to Carroll ask that, do you 626 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: know what I mean? So you gotta you have to 627 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 2: start playing off of each other onto the next one. 628 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: You know, I like the I don't remember if it 629 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 2: was James Taylor that told me about the plane crash. 630 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: So that led to, oh, I can ask everybody else 631 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: from that point on about the plane crash, and then 632 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: you start building the story. But you can't go back. 633 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: I mean, you can go back with the guys themselves 634 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 2: because you're trying to do multiple interviews with them, but 635 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: you know, you got one shot at Carol King or 636 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 2: James or Jackson or Linda, you know, and especially because 637 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 2: we did after Carroll. I didn't read it quickly into 638 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: Jackson James, Phil Collins, into Ronstead Blue Ether. I mean, 639 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: I had about seven or eight people by December, and 640 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 2: we made this nice sizzle reel, took it to Sundance, 641 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 2: hoping for the best, as we all filmmakers do, hoping 642 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: for the best. Nothing happened. But all of a sudden, 643 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: March came and boom the world closes, COVID hits. Now 644 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: I have a bunch of interviews with all these stars, who, 645 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 2: thank God, be God, because we would never have gotten 646 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: those people in those years with COVID. No one wanted 647 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 2: to do that, obviously for obvious reasons. But I also 648 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 2: have a film with a bunch of stars and nothing 649 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 2: about the people that we're talking about. I didn't have 650 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 2: any of the guys in the film, and there everybody 651 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 2: is all. There's eventies. So I'm thinking, what, Oh my god, 652 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: we got to get this stuff in the can and 653 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 2: slowly and safely. And we started going back out there 654 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: slowly and got the guys in the can. 655 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: It's a great documentary. It's fantastic, as is the wrecking crew. 656 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 2: I'm happy it's about those guys. It's about the musicians. 657 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 2: The greatest thing about that film for me was there 658 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 2: were no gatekeepers. There was no one saying, who do 659 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: you want to interview? Oh, well, hold on, and you 660 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 2: don't here for months, you know, you know, the manager 661 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 2: blows you off or the assist someone blows you off. 662 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: There was no blowing off here. I didn't call anybody. 663 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 2: Someone would call and said, yes, Carol can be interviewed, 664 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: Linda could be interviewed. Jackson's good for the next Wednesday, 665 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 2: Da da da. It was like instantaneous because the difference 666 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 2: between these guys and my dad. Dad wasn't friends with 667 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 2: Brian Wilson or hanging out with anybody. He went from 668 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 2: three hours, three hours, three hours. He went to work. 669 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: They all respected each other, they all got along, but 670 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 2: they didn't hang out. They didn't go on the road 671 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 2: with them for a year and really become friends. They 672 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 2: didn't have dinners together, you know. And that's the difference. 673 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 2: And don't forget Dad's thirty in nineteen sixty. You know, 674 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,439 Speaker 2: the Beach boys, they're all teenagers, you know. I mean, 675 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 2: there's a relationship that's different. And when these guys are 676 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: on the road with Linda, that's their sister that's her brothers. 677 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 2: You know, they're all the same age. They're all coming together. 678 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 2: Carol and Danny Knu, James and look, James and Danny. 679 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 2: James and Danny went back to when they were teenagers 680 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: in the Cape. You know, they were thirteen and fifteen. 681 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 2: I think that's when they first met and that's how 682 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 2: that whole relationship goes from that point on. 683 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: So, Danny, in closing, you mentioned earlier it took I 684 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: think you said, nineteen years for the Wrecking Crew to 685 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,479 Speaker 1: from start to finish. If somebody's listening to this, whether 686 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: it be a musician, whether it be a producer, filmmaker, 687 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: artist of any type who's trying to get something over 688 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: the finish line and it's taken forever, what advice from 689 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: someone who has lived it do you give them? 690 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 2: I think listen, if you truly believe, and you're being 691 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 2: honest with yourself. Here's the thing. If the film had 692 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 2: been Wreckingku in the festivals, if it hadn't won a 693 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 2: dozen awards, if it hadn't the the reviews were not amazing, 694 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 2: If it all hadn't happened, I would have given up 695 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 2: and walked away. That would have been the sensible thing 696 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 2: to do. But I was so in debt and I 697 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 2: knew the film was The film was fine. There was 698 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 2: never an audience that didn't like the film. I mean 699 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 2: that was the truth. And I always thought, but I 700 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 2: have to pay off this debt. The only way to 701 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 2: pay off the debt was to figure out how to 702 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 2: make that half a million dollars, and no one was 703 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 2: giving us the money. So I had to figure out 704 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 2: it different ways, and I came up with ways. If 705 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 2: you truly believe in something, you just got to keep going. 706 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 2: If the door closes, okay, go through a window, go 707 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 2: a different way. I learned something on a project once. 708 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 2: It was it was a real estate project that we 709 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 2: were doing as the guy was basically you know, we 710 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 2: were doing an infomercial forma and he would tell guy learning. 711 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 2: He goes, listen, you're gonna make twenty phone calls before 712 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,919 Speaker 2: you get a yes. That's really important because you're gonna 713 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 2: get turned down constantly. If you don't have that thing 714 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: to get turned down as an actor, as a musician, 715 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 2: don't do it. Give up now. The great line I 716 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 2: think I heard Matt Damon said when people said, you know, hey, 717 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about becoming an actor. What do you think? 718 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 2: And he said, don't do it, absolutely not. Don't do it. 719 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 2: He said, for one reason. If they listen to him 720 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 2: and don't do it, they shouldn't have been an actor. 721 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: If they really want to be an actor, they should 722 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 2: ignore him and you just do it. And that's the 723 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 2: way it is. I mean, you know, my father said 724 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 2: to you know, when he was doing those seminaris to 725 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 2: the kids, you never stopped playing. You didn't start this. 726 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 2: You didn't pick up the instrument to make money. You 727 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: did it because you enjoyed what you were doing. You 728 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 2: liked it, and then you started, Oh my gosh, you 729 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,479 Speaker 2: made you made a dollar. Oh my gosh, you're making 730 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 2: Oh you're making a living. He never stopped playing his guitar, 731 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 2: even after the stroke. Even after a stroke in ninety 732 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 2: two which ended his career in the studios, he would 733 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 2: still pick it up and mess around playing it. You know. 734 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 2: Never he did it for fun. And that's what it is. 735 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 2: If he can't make a living and do it for fun. 736 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 2: You know, writers write every day, musicians play every day. 737 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 2: Pages probably paint every day. That's how you do it. 738 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: Benny, thanks for being on taking a walk, taking a 739 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: little walk down memory Lane and music history, The Wrecking Crew, 740 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: amazing documentary The Immediate Family as well. Do check him 741 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: out and thanks for your generosity. 742 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 2: Thank you, and hopefully I will see you soon because 743 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,439 Speaker 2: I have a new one I'm doing is on Wolfman Jack. 744 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 1: I hope we will see you. 745 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 746 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 1: Growing up outside of New York City listening to him 747 00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: on w NBC. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, looking forward to 748 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: catch it up again. 749 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,760 Speaker 2: Thanks buzz, Thanks Denny. 750 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it very much. 751 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 2: Really great, I mean, a great interview. 752 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. That means the world from you. Thank you 753 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: very much. Thanks for listening to this episode of the 754 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk podcast with Denny Tedesco, The Wrecking Crew 755 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: and Immediate Family, his great documentaries. Share this in other 756 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: episodes of Taking a Walk with your Friends and find 757 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 758 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.