1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. A 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: star is born Eylon pumped up on Mars Jusan Kennemy. 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 3: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 3: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 3: I feel for the guy. 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 4: But those two percent that are nasty, they are I'll 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 4: be in full pos. 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: We are meant for great things in the United States 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: of America, and Elon reminds us of that. 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 5: I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot. 13 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, July twenty ninth. I'm Max Chafkin. David Papadopolis 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: will be back next week, I've been assured. But we've 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: got one more week together, and this week we're gonna 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: take a little break from our Jealousy series, where we've 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 2: been interviewing some of the authors of stories that we've 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 2: really admired, because we've had a slew of Elon news 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 2: that starts with Tesla. Last week, we had an Earnings call, 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: and it was let's just say it was a bit 22 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: of a downer. Sales are plumbing, and Elon admitted during 23 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: the call that the company is in a really tough spot. 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 6: I mean, does that mean like we could have a 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 6: few rough quarters. Yeah, we probably could have a few 26 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 6: rough quarters. I'm not saying it well, but we could. 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: But you can't disregard that musk magic, as we'll talk 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: about later in the show. And we discussed the progress 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: at Neuralink, a big announcement with the boring company, as 30 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: well as a bunch of sort of news around Tesla 31 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: that is kind of pointing up. We had the X 32 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: Takeover event. This is essentially a fan event in San Francisco. 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: We're a much more upbeat version of Elon called in 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 2: to talk all about the bright future ahead for Optimus. 35 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 6: Hypothetically, Tesla was making a billion of these here at scale, 36 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 6: and at scale of the cost gets lower and lower, 37 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 6: so maybe like on the order thousand dollars, I'm just 38 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 6: guessing he's put trillion in revenue. 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 2: Insane. 40 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 6: You know, that's a long way to go between here 41 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 6: and making a billion provots here. 42 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: And so to puzzle through those signals, some positive, some negative. 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: I'm sitting here with Bloomberg Law Musk reporter Dana Hall. Dana, 44 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: how are you. 45 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 3: I'm doing great, Max, Great to be. 46 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: Here, Danna. You and I were live blogging the Tesla 47 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: earnings as we like to do. Tell our listeners how 48 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: it went for Elon on Wednesday. We're recording this on 49 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 2: Tuesday of the following week. 50 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's interesting whenever there's a Tesla earnings call, 51 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: so much of it is really about Elon's mood and 52 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: what he says. And you and I, because we work 53 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 3: at Bloomberg and we have a terminal, we can like 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 3: watch the stock trading in real time as he's speaking. 55 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 3: And what I noticed is that, like the earnings were 56 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: coming along, it was like sort of a bad quarter, 57 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 3: but everyone kind of expected it in terms of the 58 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: sales being down and blah blah blah. But like as 59 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 3: soon as Elon was like, could we be in for 60 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 3: a few bad quarters? Yeah we could that you like 61 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: so to solve the SOCCA and like his whole narrative thesis, 62 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 3: which is that like the future is all about autonomous 63 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 3: and robotaxis, Like he didn't really say anything new about expansion. 64 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 3: That God investors excited, and then I think more and 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 3: more investors are starting to realize that the core automotive 66 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 3: market is just in a world of trouble because of 67 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 3: major policy shifts in Washington, you know, President Trump and 68 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: his administration. Like, there's three things that are really hitting 69 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: the company in a bad way. The seventy five hundred 70 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 3: dollars tax credit for electric vehicles, and September thirtieth, the 71 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: cafe standards, which are kind of underpin our whole effort 72 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: towards electrification, is being completely upended. And then like the 73 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: EPA is going after California's clean Air waiver. So like 74 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 3: all of the things, like the regulatory credits that Tesla 75 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 3: has relied on for profits for many quarters, or that 76 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: has really underpinned their profits is up in the air 77 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 3: or going away. 78 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: Dana, The thing for me about this call was that 79 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: like Musk in the last few quarters has been talking 80 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: a lot about robotaxis, this time he barely talked about 81 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: the actual Austin ROBOTAXI, this thing that we've been talking 82 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: about on the show for the last few weeks, and 83 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: mostly used it as a reason to argue that the 84 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: you know ADAS system, the assisted driving technology that you 85 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 2: get when you buy a normal Tesla is good, and 86 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: it felt like almost an acknowledgment that that robotaxi thing 87 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: in Austin was kind of what we thought. It was 88 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: like a you know, a demo, a stunt, but like 89 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: so far from being a real business. 90 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 3: Yes, the call was a little hard to listen to, 91 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 3: like the sound quality is always so bad. But I 92 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 3: think one analyst asked them how many miles they've driven 93 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: in Austin, and it was something like seven thousand miles, 94 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: which is not a lot. I mean it means that 95 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 3: they still have a fleet of what are we thinking, 96 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 3: like twelve to twenty cars. And then the other thing 97 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: is that this weekend we sort of expected that they 98 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: would soft launch or launch their their Bay Area service, 99 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 3: but that hasn't quite happened yet either, like it could 100 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 3: happen any minute, So I don't want to say no. 101 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: But like in California, like you need to jump through 102 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: a lot more hoops from a regulatory perspective before you 103 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: actually get a permit to do fully autonomous driving, and 104 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: Tesla doesn't have that permit. 105 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: Okay, one last thing I want to bring up before 106 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 2: we move on to the confab this weekend, which is 107 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: that you know, we've had a sort of long running 108 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: discussion on this show about this so called low cost model. 109 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: Remember this was the model too that many people, especially 110 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: many investors, were really excited about, and there was this 111 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: vague thing that happened, was it, Dana, Like about a 112 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: year ago when Reuters reported that Elon had canceled this model, 113 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: Elon said he hadn't. We have believed and this is 114 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 2: partly based on reporting you and Ed Ludlow had done, 115 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: you know back when this happened, that there was not 116 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: really going to be a model too, that there was 117 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: going to be a cheaper version of the model. Why 118 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: And it's been basically months since then. We finally got confirmation. 119 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 2: On this podcast. We had a analyst say, hey, what's 120 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 2: the low cost model going to look like? And you 121 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: had I think it was a CFO said hey, that's 122 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: that's not an appropriate question or started to say that, 123 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: and Elon just jumped in and said, so I guess 124 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: that mystery is solved. 125 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, And like fans are still pushing back, like if 126 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 3: that's not exactly what he said, you're taking what he 127 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: said out of context. But yeah, I mean like This 128 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: is by all accounts, including what Elon said on the call, 129 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 3: like some kind of decontented, cheaper, more affordable model. Why 130 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 3: how do they make it more affordable? I don't know, 131 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: Like do they strip down the interior? Does it not 132 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 3: have a roof? Is the sound system worse? 133 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: Like? 134 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 3: Are the seats crappier? 135 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 2: Don't you know? I don't know. 136 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 3: There are a lot of ways to make a car 137 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: more affordable. Maybe it's more affordable and better in some ways, 138 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 3: but it's not like a new model. It's not like 139 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: Franz has some like brand new spanking design that he's 140 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: been molding in clay in Hawthorne. Like, so I think 141 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: that people just really need to disabuse themselves of this 142 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: notionha that this is a brand new car. I mean, 143 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 3: Elon is tired of making cars like the future is 144 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 3: autonomy and optimists. Like in the future, you won't even 145 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: buy a car, You'll just like hire one. 146 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about the future. Because we heard the 147 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: clip at the top Elon Musk talking about the gazillion 148 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: units of Optimists he's expecting to sell. We've seen a 149 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: lot of sort of crazy predictions around this stuff floating around, 150 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: but Danna talk about this event that happened over the weekend, 151 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 2: the X Takeover. 152 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is an event that's put on every 153 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: year by the Tesla Owner's Club of Silicon Valley. This 154 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: year it was in San Mateo, which is in Silicon Valley, 155 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 3: so it was easy for me to get to. It 156 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: was on a Saturday, and I went and it was 157 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: like a lovely event, and it was really a reminder 158 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: that for all that we've written and talked about how 159 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: there's this incredible consumer backlash against Musk and people can 160 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: Alifornia now hate him and all the bumper stickers, like, 161 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: this company still has throngs of adoring fans and they 162 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: go to every event. And so like I'm walking around, 163 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: there's all these cyber trucks. People are wearing T shirts 164 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 3: that say don't bet against Elon, and they're wearing T 165 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: shirts from like previous product launches. And it was almost 166 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 3: like a reunion because a lot of the Tesla influencers 167 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 3: were there. 168 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Boomer Mama was there, friend of the show. 169 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 3: Boomer Mama was there. People were standing in line to 170 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: get like selfies with her, like she was you know, 171 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: I could barely talk to her because she was getting 172 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: thronged by all these people thanking her for her work. 173 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: And then there were a lot of panel discussions and 174 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 3: you know the reason why I went was because Larar's Maravi, 175 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 3: who is Tesla's VP of vehicle Engineering, was speaking and 176 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 3: he doesn't speak publicly very often. And you know, it 177 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: was like a day long event. There were things for 178 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: the kids to do. It was like a very positive, 179 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: very pro Elon Protesla event. 180 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: And then of course what did the kids do? 181 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 3: Oh well, here I'll show you. I've got a little thing. 182 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: There was a three D printed cyber truck that you 183 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 3: could cool said. They were giving out cyber trucks and 184 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: crayons and a lot of kids were coloring them. There 185 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 3: was like face painting. There was there was a balloon guy. 186 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: You know a lot of people were there with their 187 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 3: families and employees were there with their families, and you know, 188 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 3: you could like walk around. There were a lot of 189 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 3: booths from like aftermarket guys selling accessories to your vehicle. 190 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: Got it? Got it? So? And what was the mood? 191 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: I mean, like, where are among the sort of Tesla 192 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 2: Elon musk faithful, What are they most excited about? 193 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 3: I think they're all in on the Robotaxi and Optimists. 194 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 3: And there was a forthcoming cybercab, which is the car 195 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 3: that has no steering wheel on display. 196 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: Right, this was that kind of gold car that he 197 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: unveiled Elon unveiled on a sound stage at the end 198 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: of last year. 199 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: Yes, surrounded by ropes, so I like couldn't sit in it. 200 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 3: But like the cyber cab was there, surrounded by velvet ropes, 201 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: and like Optimists was there, and like there was a 202 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: throng of people like taking pictures of both. And what's 203 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 3: super interesting about you know, all all these people is 204 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 3: that like some of them owned a Tesla car and 205 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: then they became investors in the company. Some of them 206 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: were investors in the company and then they bought their 207 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 3: car and like Tesla Boom or Mama, I mean, I 208 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 3: don't think she was. She didn't become an investor till 209 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 3: like March of twenty twenty. So some of them are 210 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 3: like long time. Some of them got involved in the 211 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 3: company around the pandemic, but they are all in and 212 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 3: a lot of them they have like their life savings 213 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 3: in this company. 214 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: What you just said. It's so interesting though, because this 215 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: is as you said earlier this the heritage of this 216 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: event is a Tesla Owners Club event. It is not 217 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: a Elon Musk memestock trader event. And yet it really 218 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: sounds like, even more than owning the cars, owning the 219 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 2: stock is the thing that unifies this group. 220 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: I think it's both. It's just a question of like 221 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: which one came first, did you buy the car first 222 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: or the stock first? But most people are in both. 223 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: And it's a community. I mean, it's a real community, 224 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 3: and you know, we can laugh about it, but it 225 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: is a real community. And that you get the sense 226 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: that these are people who maybe met online and now 227 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: have deep friendship. Maybe they saw each other at a 228 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 3: product launch, They go on road trips, people meet each 229 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 3: other at superchargers, and you know, like people were talking 230 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: about like let's go on a road trip to see 231 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 3: the new Tesla diner, you know, like that kind of thing. 232 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 2: All right, you've brought up the Tesla diner. Yeah, And 233 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: we got to jump to that because amid all this 234 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: kind of somewhat dire earnings news, the you know, car 235 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 2: sales declining. The stock dropped the following day, although it's 236 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: regained some of that ground. You know, Elon Musk did 237 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: something spectacular. He unveiled a new line of business, the 238 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: Tesla Diner. It opened in Hollywood, Dana. There was a 239 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: lot of excitement among the influencer crowd over this. Yeah. 240 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: No, to be clear, I have not been there, but 241 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: I actually think it's a brilliant idea because I drove 242 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: by it when it was under construction and it's in 243 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: this kind of older part of Hollywood en Route sixty six. 244 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 3: It was like this empty lot. They built this diner. 245 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 3: It has like two stories. You can you can sit, 246 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 3: you can order food, but you can also sit in 247 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 3: your car and watch a movie. It's got like eighty 248 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: supercharger stations that are like version four of the superchargers. 249 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 3: It's a mob scene. Like people are super into it. 250 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: It's gonna be a tourist attraction. It's a great way 251 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 3: to like market the company. Tesla doesn't just sell you 252 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: the cars, they sell you the whole fueling experience. And 253 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 3: like Root sixty six, Like really is this like iconic 254 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 3: road trip you know thing? And like the fact that 255 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 3: if you drive across the country you end at Root 256 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 3: sixty six at this Tesla Diner. I think it's gonna 257 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: usher in like a whole new wave of people, and 258 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 3: it's been very crowded. There's like lines around the block 259 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 3: of people to get into it. 260 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was watching or I saw a 261 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: clip of a KTLA anchor kind of making fun of 262 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: the food. You know, there have been some negative reviews. 263 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 2: Let's let's give a quick lesson. 264 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 4: I went inside with the full intension of ordering even 265 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 4: these tacos, but it didn't look very advercharging. Okay, and 266 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 4: if I'm gonna have like a good breakfast, I wanted 267 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 4: a good Chris This is have you guys, unbiased, honest. 268 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: Brito. 269 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 2: So that's how KTLA. You know, a network morning show 270 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: was covering it. Dan, I watched that and I thought, ooh, 271 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: this really shows you what the backlash has done, because 272 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: I don't think TV networks would have covered it this 273 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: way five years ago. Right Like, like you said, the 274 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 2: design is gorgeous. It's it is. It is really cool 275 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: looking when you when you see the shots of it, 276 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: and yet you know they're kind of making fun of 277 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: the food, like you do wonder if maybe they're you know, 278 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 2: just a few years late launching this thing. 279 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be and it'll be interesting to see, like 280 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 3: once the initial hype about it dies down, if it 281 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 3: remains this like packed tourist attraction or not. I mean 282 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 3: the protesters are out there in front, you know, with 283 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: an inflatable Elon doing the awkward gesture, so I mean, 284 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: like it's definitely gonna be like a magnet. But I 285 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 3: think the other reason why people go is because they 286 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 3: think that they might run into executives there, Like Fan Hoolshausen, 287 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: the Tesla's chief designer, He's been there. Lara's mentioned that 288 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: he was there the other night. So like if you 289 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 3: leave in La, or you're visiting La and you want 290 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 3: to like hobnob with executives and engineers, like the diner 291 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 3: is like kind of a good spot to try to go, 292 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 3: at least in these early days. And so that's I 293 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: think another reason why people are stopping by. 294 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: It would be so amazing if Elon just takes all 295 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: of his meals at the Tesla Diner. He's only eating 296 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 2: the tallow fried French fries and the fried chicken and 297 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: waffle or whatever. I have to say my reaction. A 298 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: lot of people have talked about the prices on this menu, right, 299 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: like it's kind of expensive the hot dog costs thirteen dollars. 300 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: That's a lot for a hot dog, I guess, although 301 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: is it a lot for a hot dog in Los Angeles? Like, 302 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm not really sure, but I my beef was like, 303 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 2: this is not a diner. Diners have table service. This 304 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: is a fast food restaurant with very expensive food. 305 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 3: Right, Like there's no waiters or waitresses right in my mind, 306 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: like a diner, I thought. I thought it was gonna 307 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 3: be more like you're sitting in your car watching a movie, 308 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 3: and like the diner brings the food to you while 309 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 3: you're in your car. 310 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: I think there is some of that that's an option, 311 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: or you can walk in in order at the counter 312 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 2: and get it on a tray. I have to say 313 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: that the Hamburger boxes look like little cyber trucks. Apparently 314 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 2: that's cute. That goes along with a theme of the show. 315 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 3: And Optimist is serving popcorn or something. 316 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: Not well, though, did you watch the video of Optimists 317 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: serving the popcorn spilling? There's a lot of spillage I 318 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: saw though. You got to say, hey, look, Elon has 319 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: been trying to find things for Optimists to do, and 320 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: here here they have one. This this seemed good. Last 321 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: thing I want to hit and we'll move on. Bloomberg 322 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: reported initially that Samsung has a almost seventeen billion dollar 323 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: deal with Tesla to manufactured chips in its new factory 324 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: in Texas. Elon confirmed the report. How big a deal 325 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: do we think that? I mean, this is obviously a 326 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 2: big deal for Samsung. Is does this matter that much 327 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: for Tesla? 328 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? 329 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: I think so. And Elon posted something about how he 330 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 3: was going to be personally walking the line and like 331 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: making shit that quality was up to snuff, and they 332 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 3: were gonna be very involved. Like they really pitched it 333 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 3: as like a partnership. And I think it just means that, 334 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: like chips are a big part of the future, both 335 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: for autonomy and the robotaxi and for optimists, and like 336 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: Elon isn't just it's not like they're just buying off 337 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: the shelf chips, like Elon wants to sounds like he 338 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 3: wants to sort of co design these and be very involved. 339 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 3: And yeah, they're gonna need compute to do everything that 340 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 3: they want to do. 341 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna be He's gonna be walking the line, 342 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: probably sleeping on the line, if history is any guide, 343 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: And There's of course also a political element here because 344 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: these would be made in the US chips. That, of 345 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: course is probably good for Trump and his efforts to 346 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: onshore you know, manufacturing. 347 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: Made in Texas chips. 348 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: Right, So maybe you know where I'm on. As you know, Dan, 349 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 2: I'm on the lookout for any sign of the moot, 350 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: and I feel like this is the tiniest little flicker 351 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: of a spark. Although there have been some Epstein tweets, 352 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: Elon has not stopped tweeting about Epstein. So so I 353 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: don't know, you give and you take. I suppose. All right, 354 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 2: let's move on beyond Tesla to Neuralink. This is the 355 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: brain implant company. It's been really mysterious, although tons of 356 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: Promise have talked about this company a bunch of times 357 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: on the podcast and their early patients that they've put 358 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 2: implants into. July twenty first announced, we got announcement from 359 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 2: Neuralink that had done two more surgeries. These are patients 360 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: eight and nine, So starting to get up there. And 361 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 2: then probably even more significant thing is that Bloomberg reporter 362 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: Ike Sweatlets, who joining us now, broke a story with 363 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 2: a bunch of detail about the business and about where 364 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: Neuralink thinks it's going. He's here joining us, Ike, how 365 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: are you good? 366 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 4: Good? 367 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 368 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 2: So I this company has been kind of a mystery, 369 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: at least to me, maybe not to you, beyond the 370 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: fact that they were doing some really cool experiments. These 371 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: trials that I think we're just are technically just to 372 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: show safety, although based on like the social media clips, 373 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: you're seeing some impressive stuff. Patients who were not able 374 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 2: to use their hands able to essentially play video games 375 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: by controlling a cursor with their brains. You report a 376 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: bunch of business plans. The idea, I guess is twenty 377 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: thousand implants by twenty thirty one, a billion dollars in 378 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: annual revenue. These are our plans, and I think we're 379 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 2: part of an investor presentation. How are they going to 380 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 2: get to that place? On its face, it seems like 381 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: one of those crazy Elon Musk predictions. That's a little 382 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: bit hard to evaluate. 383 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they sort of have a ramp up plan 384 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: that they were presenting here right now. You know, they 385 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: just have announced nine patients who've gotten these devices. These 386 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: are not like FDA approved for general commercial use, so 387 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: these are all in clinical research trials right now. 388 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 2: These are safety trials, I believe, so not even designed 389 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: to show effectiveness, just that it's safe to do them, 390 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: to have them in somebody's head. 391 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: And they're hoping to get regulatory approval for sort of 392 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: the first version of that device by twenty twenty nine, 393 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: and then ramp it up to two thousand, you know, 394 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: two thousand people a year, two thousand sergers a year, 395 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: then ten thousand a year by twenty thirty and then 396 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: and then twenty thousand year by twenty thirty one. So 397 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: those numbers too, that's not the total number of patients, 398 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: that's like how many they plan each year, So like 399 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: several tens of thousands of people they hope will have 400 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: these devices by twenty thirty one. 401 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 3: Can you rebind me? 402 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: Like? 403 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: What are the different products called? Like I've kind of 404 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: gotten them confused in my mind. There's several different names 405 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 3: now for different. 406 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Things, right So the one that they're testing right now 407 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: in humans is called telepathy, which they're using to allow 408 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: humans to manipulate electronic devices just using their brain, without 409 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: without using their hands. So if someone's paralyzed or has 410 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: severe nerve damage, you know, they can interact with a computer. 411 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: People have been making videos, playing games you know, able 412 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: to like you know, type and text and things like that, 413 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: just using the brain instead of us in the hands. 414 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: And this is you know, this is these kind of 415 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: technologies are are a big improvement over sort of older, 416 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: older versions of things with eye tracking or controlling sort 417 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: of a device with maybe a tiny amount of muscle 418 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: movement that you have. So that's the telepathy implant. They're 419 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: also working on this implant called blind Sight, which they've said, 420 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, aims to give vision to you know, people 421 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: who are blind and eventually superhuman vision, so you know, 422 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: vision beyond the normal visible like spectrum maybe maybe infrared, 423 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: maybe ulgrabiolet, things like that, you know, other other animals 424 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: can see in you know, different wave lengths. 425 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: Wait is the idea that people who are totally blind 426 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 2: now would have superhuman vision or they would just get 427 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: regular vision, and that people who can see would be 428 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 2: upgraded to superhuman. 429 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: From what they've they've said, I think like it looks 430 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: like they want superhuman vision to be available generally. But 431 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: the idea of these things in general, so that you know, 432 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: you can increase sort of people's abilities if you're trying 433 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: to cure some disease or bring people up to you know, 434 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: sort of quote unquote normal, but you could also go 435 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: beyond that. And that blind site implant neuralink has been 436 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: testing in monkeys. One of the engineers made a presentation 437 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: recently about some of the progress with that. Patients are 438 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: not like enrolled in those in those human trials yet. 439 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: And then they are also working on this device for 440 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: Parkinson's and tremors, which is also interesting because that's an 441 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: area that you know, many other large medical device companies 442 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: have treatments for this deep brain stimulation things like that. 443 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 2: I the information that you're reporting, these these investor presentations, 444 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: these predictions or projections. Why are these documents circulating now? 445 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: My assumption is always like when you see something like this, 446 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: the suggestion is they're trying to raise money, right, Like 447 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: they're circulating these documents because they want to raise money 448 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: or why like, where is this kind of coming from? 449 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: Do you have any sense? Yeah? 450 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: So they did just raise money. It was announced in 451 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: May a six hundred and fifty million dollar Series E 452 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: funding round, So there was you know, recent fundraising. In 453 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: terms of upcoming fundraising. If anyone's heard anything, I'd give 454 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: me a call, but they have been raising money recently. 455 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: Got it, Danna Really? Until Ike said the words super 456 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 2: human Vision, I was thinking to myself, like, this is 457 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: like such a weird company for Elon Musk because like 458 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: you're talking about long FDA approval, it's kind of a 459 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 2: ways away from what we normally think of as an 460 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: Elon company, Like these are not really consumer products Elon 461 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 2: likes to make consumer Like like, how do you see 462 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: this fitting in his larger program? Do we need the 463 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 2: brain computers for to go in the tunnels in Mars? 464 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 2: Or like how how does this fit into the grand 465 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 2: the master plan? 466 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 6: Yeah? 467 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: Or like is it part of it? I always wonder 468 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 3: like is there some kind of fertility play here? Like 469 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 3: does this all come back to, like, you know, extending 470 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 3: the light of consciousness and making sure that people reproduce 471 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 3: and how do you reproduce on Mars? And is there 472 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 3: some kind of neuralink thing that will stimulate fertility. I 473 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 3: don't know, because I feel like everything always comes back 474 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 3: to Mars in some way. But I think that, like 475 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: you know, Elon is a man of a million ideas, 476 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 3: like he thinks of companies like all the time, like 477 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 3: he you know, he's doing five now, but he's probably 478 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 3: got you know, twenty like thought of twenty five for breakfast. 479 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 3: Like his mind is just voracious like that. And I 480 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 3: actually don't think it's that big of a departure for 481 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 3: him to be doing something that's like a machine brain interface. 482 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: And it's kind of remarkable that he's got these patients 483 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: who are like talking publicly about how life changing it's been, 484 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 3: and you know there's nine now that we know of. 485 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 3: But I don't think it's a departure for him. I mean, 486 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 3: Elon does not like to be a spectator. He wants 487 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 3: to be in the arena whatever is at the forefront 488 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 3: and like we are on the cusp of like you know, 489 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 3: for so many years, the brain was like this black box, 490 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 3: and there have been major advances in our understanding of 491 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: the brain in the past couple of decades, and he 492 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: wants to be a part of that. 493 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: You know, going to one of the questions sort of 494 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: you had brought up before. Neuralin Executive have talked before 495 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: about how this is a product that you know, everyone 496 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: might get. I mean the President DJSAO, you know, said 497 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: on this very long and comprehensive podcast with Lex Friedman 498 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: that there's a very real possibility that you could see 499 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: eight billion people walking around with neuralink. Something that I'm 500 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: curious about is sort of there's the neuralink implant and 501 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: then these different sort of versions of it. You know, 502 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: they've also talked about, you know, maybe you you might 503 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: have multiple, you might have one, you might have two, 504 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: you might have three. Like there's sort of you know, 505 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: different different sort of configurations of this that you can 506 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: that you can put in that you'd put the you 507 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: sort of put them in different parts of the brain. 508 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: So it's this this sort of kind of technology that 509 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: then could be could be used for a lot of 510 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 1: different things in theory. 511 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 2: If we're not comfortable with like red number four or whatever. 512 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: It's it's hard to imagine the FDA kind of moving 513 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: super quickly on on a brain implant, particularly given that 514 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: we've had and this has come up on the show 515 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 2: before you know they're one of the I believe the 516 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 2: first patient there were some setbacks. The little wires, I 517 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 2: forget what they're called, but they're little very thin fibers 518 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: kind of we're slipping out or or or some of 519 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: the fibers were becoming dislodged, Like we don't really know 520 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: what the long term outlook is for for these implants. 521 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: Is the twenty twenty nine Is that is that timeline 522 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: that's laid out in these UH documents that you reported on, 523 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: Is that seen as realistic within the industry? Does anybody 524 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: like how how I guess and more broadly, like how 525 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: realistic are the other other people in this field, other 526 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 2: investors taking this? 527 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: That's a good question, I you know, I mean they're 528 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: getting investment, clearly. I'm not sure what people think about 529 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: sort of how realistic that that timeline is. I mean, 530 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: the FDA has approved you know, brain implants. I mean, 531 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: like you know, deep brain stimulation, other other sorts of 532 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: things like that. Like it's the idea of putting something 533 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: in the brain, is is not? That's something that has 534 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: been done many times, So that that concept, you know, 535 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: for for many people might be you know, sort of stranger, 536 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: foreign or whatnot, but it's not something that is sort 537 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: of completely new to the FDA. I think it's interesting 538 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: we we have haven't seen any peer reviewed publications about 539 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: the results from these these trials yet, right, which is 540 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: I've written a lot about other pharmaceutical companies or where 541 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: you sort of have a trial and then you have 542 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: a publication, and then the publication is submitted to the 543 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, that's sort of the data that submitted to 544 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: the FDA. So I think that's sort of one of 545 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: my main questions is Neuralink has been publishing information online sometimes, 546 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: but I think that's seeing more sort of peer reviewed 547 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: published data would help people evaluate that too. 548 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and of course peer that's been that's like 549 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: often a complaint about this kind of like venture backed 550 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: healthcare company, especially with somebody like Musk who who loves 551 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 2: to kind of paint a futuristic picture. There's there's the picture, 552 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 2: and then there's what the scientific establishment is willing to accept. Ike, 553 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: will we'll let you go, you gotta, You're gonna have 554 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 2: to come back and let us know what the enhancements 555 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 2: are going to be as well as, you know, any 556 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: further developments with this company. 557 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot for being here, Yeah, thank you. 558 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 2: Okay, Dana, stick around one more segment for you. The 559 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: boring company. This is like the forgotten Elon Musk venture, 560 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 2: the perpetually forgotten, you know, youngest child that no one 561 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 2: can quite remember even exists. It does exist, and they 562 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 2: have a deal to drill a tunnel in Nashville, apparently 563 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 2: ten or so miles going from the airport to downtown. 564 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 2: There was a big event or an event in Nashville yesterday. 565 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: This is Tennessee Governor Bill Ye announcing the move. 566 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 5: The boring company is set to transform the airport to 567 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 5: downtown travel experience. And for those that live here, it 568 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 5: means that they'll be less congestion on our roads, there 569 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 5: will be less wear and tear on our highways. And 570 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 5: the best port of it all is one hundred percent 571 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 5: privately funded. There will be no cost to Tennessee taxpayers. 572 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: Dan, I can't remember have you been to the Vegas Loop, 573 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: the version of this in Las Vegas. I have not 574 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 2: had the honor max the Vegas Loop. Dan, you'll know this, 575 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 2: but maybe some listeners won't. It's pretty underwhelming. It's basically 576 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 2: a couple of miles of very narrow tunnels that primarily 577 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 2: go between different ends of the Las Vegas Convention Center, which, 578 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 2: to be fair, is a very large convention center. But 579 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: you go in a regular car. It doesn't go very fast, 580 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: It has a regular driver. The only thing that's really 581 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: futuristic about it is the color scheme inside of the tunnel, 582 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 2: it's kind of like a little bit lame. On the 583 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 2: other hand, Boring has been doing this for a very 584 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: long time and it's the only thing that they've really 585 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: managed to get built. Of any substance, this would be 586 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: a second one. So I guess in that sense, you 587 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 2: got to look at this as a win, even if 588 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: it's just an announcement and there are lots of approvals 589 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: and so on that would be necessary to make this happen. 590 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I guess it's a win 591 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 3: in that. You know, Yet people kind of forget about 592 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 3: the Boring company, Like what are they doing in this 593 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 3: tunnel thing? Is it really just about tunneling in Mars? 594 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: And the fact that they're still apparently getting these contracts 595 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: at approvals and having governors of states sort of announce 596 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 3: them means that they're going forward. I think to me, 597 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 3: what's sort of interesting is that, like Elon has really 598 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 3: got a thing for Tennessee now because XAI has this 599 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: massive data center in Memphis that you've got this what 600 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 3: is it? What are they calling it? Like the music 601 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 3: City loop? 602 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, music city with Nashville being the music city. 603 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 3: Music City loop you know, apparently in Nashville they're having 604 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 3: like a hiring event. So his empire is continuing to 605 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 3: expand into this very interesting kind of red state that 606 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 3: is the center of a lot of logistics I mean 607 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: a lot of logistics companies kind of use Nashville as 608 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 3: their as their base of operating. So I just think 609 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 3: when we think of Elon writ large and like if 610 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 3: you think about congressional districts and where he has installations, 611 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: now Tennessee is a really big part of his empire. 612 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And Nashville's kind of an it's an Elon 613 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 2: sort of town, right like La It's got a big 614 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: music industry. Of course, it's a big tourist attraction obviously, 615 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 2: so you could kind of see the affinity. I will 616 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: say it's very early. And although on one hand you 617 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 2: look at this and you say, wow, for the feud 618 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 2: with Trump and all the ways that Elon Musk has 619 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 2: been divisive, he's still able to command the respect of 620 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: the governor of a state. We don't really know how 621 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 2: this plays out. In Las Vegas. A lot of local 622 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 2: officials were not thrilled with the loop. A couple of 623 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: years ago, actually interviewed the mayor of Las Vegas, and 624 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: she voted for to approve the loop, but she did 625 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: not like it. She thought it was basically modest tourist attraction, 626 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: and she basically just felt she couldn't vote against it 627 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: because the taxpayers are not paying for it is paid 628 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: for by the boring company and the Las Vegas Convention 629 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: Center Association. Kind of a similar thing here. We don't 630 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: know exactly who's paying for this, but we do know, 631 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 2: according to Governor Lee, that the taxpayers are not paying 632 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 2: for it. Also, Nashville has a democratic mayor. He was 633 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 2: not at the event, kind of conspicuously. Often when you 634 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: have big events like this, the mayor wants to take 635 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: credit because this means jobs. So again, I think we 636 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 2: will see just how far Elon Musk's political capital will 637 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: take him. But who knows. 638 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 5: Dan. 639 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: You know, maybe in a couple of years, you and 640 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: I can fly down to Nashville and take that express car, 641 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,479 Speaker 2: take a little Tesla maybe thirty five forty miles an 642 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 2: hour straight from the airport to downtown. 643 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 3: Well, that sounds great. I think we need to do 644 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 3: our Group sixty six road trip first. 645 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 2: We're going to the diner before then, of course, this 646 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: episode was produced by Stacy Wong and edited by Anna Mazarakus. 647 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 2: Blake Maples handles engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checks. Our 648 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 2: supervising producer is Magnus Henrickson. Welcome Back, Magnus. The Elining 649 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: theme is written and performed by Taka Yazuzawa and Alex Sagiera. 650 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big 651 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: thanks to our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm 652 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 2: Max Chafkin. If you have a minute, rate and review 653 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: our show, it'll help other listeners find us and we'll 654 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: see you next week.