1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: When you can develop in senuite appreciation for your craft, 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: that's when it becomes easier for you to be accountable. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: You on your parents aren't always over top of you. 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: Give me your business and winning are two completely different things. 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: This is the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacoor from the 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Reformed Sports Project podcast. Joining me today is one of 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: the greatest wrestlers of all time, Jordan Burrows. Jordan is 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: highly decorated with over twenty five gold medals from international, 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: US and collegiate competitions. Jordan and I discussed everything from 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: why he's a youth sports advocate and the important lessons 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: learned from sports, to participation trophies and advice for kids 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: trying to play sports in college. I have another ridiculous guest, 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: but why I'm extra excited right now. My sons are 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: wearing his damn wrestling shoes. He's the go He's the legend, 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: one of the greatest of all time. Jordan Burrows JB. 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: Thanks were hopping on manns are having me, no doubt. 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: So here's what I want to start man, And I've 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: been following you for a long time, not just because 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: of your you know, athleticism and you know, your ability 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: to be so skilled and such on the map, but 23 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: where you kind of tugging my heart strings quite a 24 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: bit is you're a youth sports advocate. This didn't just 25 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: come about here recently. I noticed like a couple of 26 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: years ago, you know, you talking about how let kids 27 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: be kids. You know, we're not getting college scholarships at 28 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: ten you tournaments right, tell me this you're a parent, 29 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: But where does that come from? Like what makes you 30 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: feel moved enough to get on a pedestal and speak 31 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: from your heart and your experience on the topic of 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: youth sports. We've been around in games so long, you know, 33 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: I've been in the wrestling room at the University of 34 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: Nebraska for fifteen years, and then I've been to thousands 35 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: of wrestling camps, you know, selling the dream to all 36 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: of these huge athletes throughout the country, throughout the world, 37 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: even um for the entirety of my career. So I've 38 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: seen it at both levels. I've seen it from the 39 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: youth level when it's done properly and when it's done poorly, 40 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: and then I've also seen what the final product looks 41 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: like in a college wrestling room when it's down properly 42 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: and done really And so you know what I always 43 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: try to advocate for is, hey, listen, be an elite 44 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: is secondary. This is something that might just so happy 45 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: to be indirect result of creating structure and giving kids 46 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: an outlet to, you know, allow them to grow and 47 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: develop and build confidence and be active and fit and 48 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: learn how to be coachable and walk with humility and 49 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: do all these amazing things. That that was just what 50 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: it was when I was growing up. You signed up 51 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: for your local youth club, you paid your sixty bucks, 52 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: you got your wrestling singlet, and you went to any 53 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: tournament that you could find in the area. But now 54 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: it's it's morphed to two parents want their kids to 55 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: be elite for for a number of reasons. But you know, 56 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: I think ultimately it's it comes with a level of 57 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: grace that you have to operate with in order to 58 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: get your kids to love the support. First, I think 59 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: when you can develop a genuine appreciation for your craft, 60 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: that's when it becomes easier for you to be accountable, 61 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: even when your parents are always over top of you. 62 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: So right now, I'm just in a place where I'm 63 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to be as as gracious 64 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: in my approach and not be nasty to parents because 65 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: I categorized myself as one of them. I have kids. 66 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: I want them to be athletes, you know. I desire 67 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: for them to be great and athletics because it means 68 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: a lot to me. And then I have also done 69 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: it for such a long period of time that I'm like, man, 70 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: what kind of moments did my dad do well at? 71 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: Where did he kind of miss the market a little bit? 72 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: And how can I improve? Was a this generation such 73 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: a great point? And I have no experience in the 74 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: wrestling realm, but I played baseball in college. I played 75 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: a little bit professionally, and but I played you know, 76 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: different sports growing up and one thing that pressed me 77 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: to move. And I've been coaching my kids in all 78 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: these sports, you know, whether it be basketball, baseball, football. 79 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: My oldest is a junior in high school now, and 80 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, he wants to wrestle in college, and I'm 81 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: sure that will happen at some level. But wrestling really 82 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: was a sport that I introduced my kids too, because 83 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: a good friend of mine and wrestled and said, hey, 84 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: it's great. And I always as a as a father, 85 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: I loved the idea of my kids learning how to 86 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: defend themselves. I was like, man, this is kind of 87 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: like a martial art, but at the same time it 88 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: will probably help them on the baseball field or football field, 89 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: a cross field. I just I'm a big advocate of 90 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: kids playing multiple sports and cross training, and one sport 91 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: helps the other. But when I got into the wrestling 92 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: room and saw my kids, I'm like, man, this sport 93 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: you can't blame the umpire, you can't blame the ball. 94 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: And I was like, dude, this makes my job as 95 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: apparent easier. Like talk about accountability. I blew me away. 96 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm in love with the sport. But you mentioned the 97 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: word accountability, and we'll kind of get into the participation 98 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: trophy thing here for a little bit. But I want 99 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: to talk about that because I think that that's kind 100 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: of going by the wayside across the board, people and 101 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: parents are finding it hard to extract what I think 102 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: the true value in youth sports is, which is kind 103 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: of what you spoke on preparing kids for the path 104 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: as opposed to preparing the path for the kids were 105 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: trading short term performance over long term development in and 106 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: out of sport. A lot of reasons for that, but 107 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: it sounds to me like you want to make sure 108 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: they get those life lessons even more than just the 109 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: performance aspect. Is that kind of what you're talking about. Yeah, 110 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: for sure, I think it's necessary because ultimately you're trying 111 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: to create individuals of character that can be contributors to society. 112 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: Like that's the ultimate goal in this process. So you know, 113 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: anything beyond and above that is strictly icing on the cake. 114 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: But I think that we've kind of missed the mark 115 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: because we've tried to, you know, make athletes elite, but 116 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: within doing that, you forget all about the principles that 117 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: are necessary to be great and to have sustained excellence. 118 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: Like no one cares about winning right now. Like if 119 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: your kid is the best kid on the field at 120 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: this very moment in their careers, like that's not super 121 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: beneficial for their development and for their progression. You know. 122 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: I think what we're trying to get to is a 123 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: place where we understand that what we want to give 124 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: to our kids is the preparation for them to interact 125 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: with life and to be great individuals, you know. So 126 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: I think when I started sport as a young man 127 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: and I went to my very first tournament, I was like, Okay, 128 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: what can I become? You know, I'm not extremely confident. 129 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: I'm the youngest of four. I really don't feel like 130 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: I have a lot of purpose in anything that I do, 131 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: you know, And I'm getting to this space where, you know, 132 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: my dad's coming to watch me compete, my siblings are 133 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: coming to watch me compete, Like what does this mean 134 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: to me? Who am I? And why is this important? 135 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: I also started to figure out, you know, how can 136 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: I develop an identity for myself and really start to 137 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: extract more value out of what I can output into 138 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: the world. And that was really cool experience for me 139 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: because when I was a kid, my dad leaved to me, 140 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: but I didn't believe in myself. So when my realitied 141 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: in the line with who he thought I was, you know, 142 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: sometimes it could be frustrating, you know. And so when 143 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: you sort of unleased that power, almost like a superhero, 144 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: when you reveal what you're really capable of and you 145 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: learn how to harness those powers, like that's a special 146 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: moment for east individuals. So I think that's what sports 147 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: and athleticss for me. Like, if you grow up in 148 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: a middle class family, or if you grow up in 149 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: astute or a wealthy family, like, your life will never 150 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: be hard. You're life will simply never be hard. You 151 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: have no challenges. Everything is provided for you. You don't 152 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: grow up in the streets, nothing's rough, you don't have 153 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: to develop mental toughness or any grid. Everything's given to you. 154 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: So it's like, well, how can you replicate or simulate difficulty. 155 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: You have to play sports because it takes it takes 156 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: a whole lot of strenuous activity, and it takes a 157 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: lot of building mental toughness and character to be good 158 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: at athletics. So that's why I think athletics are so important. 159 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: It's like, if you didn't grow up in a difficult 160 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: area or in poverty, the best way to replicate difficulty 161 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: or obstacles or challenges for young kids is to put 162 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: them into athletics and to present them with challenges and 163 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: then to help prepare them to overcome them and empower 164 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: them along the way. You're getting me excited, man, You 165 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: fired me up. We're clicking on all cylinders because we're 166 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: like minded and I can hear the passion coming out 167 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: of you, and you know, it's disheartening. And you went 168 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: on a man, you went on a rant like a 169 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: week and a half ago about participation trophies, and it's funny. 170 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: I actually brought this up like two years ago with 171 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: a guy who's on our advisory board. He pitched for 172 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: the Red Sox named Lenny DeNardo. And here's what I 173 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: have found, you know, and I get the whole. I 174 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: don't want my kids to get a participate Like. First 175 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: of all, my first ever trophy was a participation troph 176 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: I got it when I was eight years old and 177 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen nine, and I was like the most happy 178 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: human being in the world. I have no idea where 179 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: the trophy is, but I remember it, and I think 180 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: it's the only trop FAIR remember, except when I got 181 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: a state championship ringing high school in the national championship 182 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: in college. But I mean, I remember that first trophy, 183 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: and and when I read what your post said, I'm like, man, 184 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: I get it. But I have noticed the people who 185 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: quote unquote have the biggest um problem with kids getting 186 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: medals for showing up when they're young. I might be 187 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: generalizing here, but from my experience, there's a lot of 188 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: people who never really accomplished anything in their own athletic career. Um, 189 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to point a finger making generalization. That 190 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: is just what I have seen or can't take a 191 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: step back and say, hey, what is this really about? 192 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: Because I think there's levels to development. Some kids, the 193 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: best they can do and extract from a youth sports 194 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: experience is to be a part of is to learn 195 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: about how to get on the line the right way 196 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: and to just have the confidence whereas other kids can 197 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: compete for championships. Some kids are a shell of themselves, 198 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: but sport will help make them more confident and go 199 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: into the world and be something else. So can you 200 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: talk about where the participation trophy came from and how 201 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: that all ties in and your passion for that, Yeah, 202 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: for sure. So you know, obviously I've got some implicit 203 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: bias just because of the fact that that was my 204 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: first trophy, so it it's very sentimental for me. Then 205 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: when I think about where I was in my career, 206 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: how I got started in the sport, and then you 207 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: know what kind of hooks me and kept me coming back. 208 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: But I also think that I've seen the sport done 209 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: at the highest level for such a long period of time. 210 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: I've seen what kind of keeps people drawn in. I've 211 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: seen what kids desire to have. You know, my kids 212 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: don't even play youth sports yet. You know, they're just 213 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: getting into what they're gonna do, hopefully for a long 214 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: period of time. So you know, I don't have a 215 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: ton of experience with my own children. But what I 216 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: do know is I've spent enough time around a lot 217 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: of use athletes all around the country to know enough 218 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: to think that, Hey, listen, kids find value and validation 219 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: at a young age, and that's what needs to understand. 220 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: It's like, this is not an adult here, Like we're 221 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: not giving this to a twenty year old. This is 222 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: a seven and eight year old. This is someone who 223 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: doesn't understand the value yet of hard work. This is 224 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: someone who doesn't know how to be consistent with their effort. 225 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: This is someone who freaking still poops their pants for 226 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: crying out loud. You know, like you have to you 227 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: have to understand they don't need to learn these hard 228 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: life less yet, but at some point we can start 229 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: to give them the details of what it looks like 230 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: to continuously improve in the fight for something knowing that 231 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: you didn't you know, you didn't win, Like giving your 232 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: best and winning are two completely different things. And that's 233 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: where I think we're kind of at this point now 234 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: where everyone's like, well, if they didn't win, then they 235 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: deserved nothing. And I'm like, well, that's not true. No 236 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: tournament that I ever went to to compete end did 237 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: I give less effort or have less prep ration just 238 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: because I didn't take first place? Like that's a complete lie. 239 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: So we have this mindset where guys are like, well, 240 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: if they didn't win, and they deserve nothing, Well, like, 241 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: the things that we should be celebrating are the effort, 242 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: the blavery, the courage. They're willingness to go out there, 243 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: like I've seen my kids in their own personal experiences 244 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: before they go to practice like that. I'm nervous, I'm scared. 245 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: I don't know these people. This is my first time here. 246 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: Why are they all looking at me? You know, we're 247 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: in a completely new place. I don't want to go 248 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: out on the map by myself, so I have to. 249 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: And also, like all of those things, I don't think 250 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: these people have an understanding of It's like, if you're 251 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: going to a new spot and you had to, you know, 252 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: give absolute effort and a sport as vulnerable and as 253 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: transparent as wrestling where you're literally just out there with 254 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: another opponent trying to rip your head off and you 255 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: gotta stand out there and fight like that's very tough 256 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: to do. So, you know, I think that the reward 257 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: for them should be, you know, based on their willingness 258 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: to get out there, and then you sit them down 259 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: and they have a conversation with them after that that 260 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: origin story and say, hey, listen, understand that there's still 261 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: three more trophies that are much bigger than this one 262 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: that we want today, and there's still much more that 263 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: we can get from ourselves. This is a great start. 264 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: This is I'm so proud of your effort. I'm so 265 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: proud of your willingness to fight. And you were really 266 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: creatious out there today. You're working on the things that 267 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: we were practicing. You're being a good listener, and you 268 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: were smiling. You look like you had a good time. Now, 269 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: let's go back to the drawing board on Monday and 270 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: we'll continue to improve on our skills. Here's where we 271 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: where we got beat, Here's where we need to get 272 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: better at but I'm so thankful for your willingness to compete. 273 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: I think you can be really good at this, you know, 274 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: And so like, I think that that's kind of where 275 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: we're missing the mark. We're giving too much correction and 276 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: too much challenge and not enough support and encouragement. It's like, 277 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: you can give people challenges, but if you never support 278 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: them in these challenges, you're gonna create this militant like 279 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: drills target environment where kids are like I only do 280 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: this because my dad tells me that I need and 281 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: no love, there's no admiration, there's no appreciation to their craft. 282 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: So eventually they're gonna either burn out or your relationship 283 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: is gonna suffer because of it. So I think that 284 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: what I've seen, or at least away in the method 285 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: that I'm gonna try to implement to my own children 286 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: is just to give them as much love as possible 287 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: while presenting challenge to them. So it's like equal love, 288 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: equal challenge, high support, high obstacles. So it's like, hey, 289 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: I believe in you, I believe that capable of doing this, 290 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: and I'm setting these high expectations for you because I 291 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: want you to be great and you know, for some 292 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: kids that might be a little too much. I think 293 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: you might need to scale back a little bit. And 294 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: it's all about, you know, discernment and understanding how to 295 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: navigate these conversations depending upon the personality of the individual. 296 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: But ultimately, you know, I think we have to we 297 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: have to step back for a second and think of 298 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: how would I want to be addressed if I position 299 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: Because too many times it's like, you hear the old 300 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: adage treat people the way you want to be treated. Well, 301 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: it's like it's not true, because what the heck, what 302 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: if they don't want to be treated the way you 303 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: want to be treated. I like being yelled at when 304 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: I go to train. Everyone doesn't want to be yelled at. 305 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: So it's like, it's not treat people the way you 306 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: want to be treated, treat people the way they want 307 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: to be treated. So it's like, how can this person 308 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: get the most effective critique from whatever process they're trying 309 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: to improve upon. Don't talk to them the way that 310 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: you would want to be talked to, Talk to them 311 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: the way in which you think they can receive it best. 312 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: I think that's where we have to start to, you know, 313 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: be a little more gracious and and be a little 314 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: more strategic, like we've got to learn how to semest 315 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: as opposed to just like hammering into our kids that 316 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: because it's it's so hard, man being great at athletics. 317 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: It's so hard, it's a long journey, takes a lot 318 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: of work, and it's it's too hard not to have 319 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: a good time doing it. That's Jordan Burrows, one of 320 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: the greatest wrestlers of all time. When we returned, Jordan 321 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: and I will discuss retention issues within your sports, early 322 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: sports specialization and advice for kids trying to play sports 323 00:14:54,800 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: in college. Welcome back to the Reformed Sports Project podcast, 324 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: where Jordan and I left off when we were about 325 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: to dig further into the importance of having fun, early 326 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: sports specialization and advice for those looking to play sports 327 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: in college. So Ben Ashker and I know you obviously 328 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: guys are I would imagine somewhat close have relationship. He's 329 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: been a huge help and helping this project from the beginning, 330 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: and we've talked quite a bit about retention, you know, 331 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: and I will say wrestling as a sport at the 332 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: youth level, I think Ben told me the number. It's 333 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: somewhere in the vicinity of losing like kids a year 334 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: like and probably wise. Man, it's a hard sport, dude, 335 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: It's hard, right, there's so many, so many elements your diet. 336 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: You know you've got kids. I went to Super thirty 337 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: two my son the first time you went there, and 338 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: I see little nine year olds are like cutting weight. 339 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, we're what way do they cut? And but 340 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: like how do you retains right? So so you mentioned 341 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: the word fun, and a lot of times people think 342 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: you can't have fun and be competitive at the same time, 343 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: whereas I think it sounds like you think they coexist 344 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: and they have to coexist. I mean, you're thirty, I 345 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: think thirty plus years old. Are you still having as 346 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: much fun now? And if you didn't have the fun, 347 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: do you think you'd still be at it? Yes, you 348 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: have to have fun. Every day is not fun. I'm 349 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: gonna just be completely honest with you. But I'm old 350 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: enough and mature enough to understand that my commitment to 351 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: my craft sometimes have to have to, you know, supersede 352 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: my ability to you know, love and enjoy what I'm 353 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: doing at that particular moment. I don't feel like training 354 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: every day, you know, I have a lot of responsibilities 355 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: at home, but I also know that if I want 356 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: to be great at this sport, I have a responsibility 357 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: to the public that every time I present myself, I 358 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: have to be at my best, and I take that 359 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: with a lot of pride, and I always want to 360 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: be ready. So what I like to think is wrestling 361 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: is a really hard sport. There's some days where I 362 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: sit at my son's practice and I'm like, man, this 363 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: is so hard, Like I can see why someone wouldn't 364 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: want to do this long term. It's bro Like there's 365 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: certain days where I'm like, I didn't even enjoy watching this. 366 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: So I can imagine what it's like to be a 367 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: seven year old and someone's teaching you how to shoot 368 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: a high crotch. You know, you're like, I just want 369 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: to freaking play dodgeball. I think there has to be 370 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: like a kind of an equal amount of fun and activities, 371 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: but also, you know, kind of figuring out a way 372 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: how can I teach this sport to make it more palatable, 373 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: like where people want to come back and they want 374 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: to be a part of it, and they want, you know, 375 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: they see the kind of the benefits of being in 376 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: something great, like this because Yeah, for sure, I see 377 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: it a lot of days when I'm at practice with 378 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: my little ones and I'm like, man, this is so hard, 379 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: Like I if you don't want to come back to 380 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: ma all, I completely get it. But here's why we should. 381 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: Uh So, Yeah, I think fun is a big part 382 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: of it. I personally think that there is a particular 383 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: moment in time when you can start to teach people 384 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: about competitive nature and and what it means to be 385 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: great at something. But ultimately, as as young men and women, 386 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: I think there's a time and place for that, and 387 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: I don't think it's immediately and used athletics. So you know, 388 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm a guy that preferred to delay what we're giving 389 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: to them so eventually they can kind of hunger for 390 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: it themselves. Where it's like, you know, been asking you 391 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: to said the best. He was like, how do you 392 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: know when someone's ready to compete? And it was like, well, 393 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: basically they start begging you and they're asking a dad, 394 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: can wrestle? Can I do this gymnastics event? Can I 395 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: play in this soccer game? Can I win a trophy? 396 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: Can I go out there and compete and see what 397 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: it's like? But you know, my kids are in a 398 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: unique position because of what I do and the accomplishments 399 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: that I've had, So I'm in this kind of tricky 400 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: dynamic where I'm also trying to protect them from what 401 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: I imagine that they will experience at some point, because 402 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: people are gonna be excited to try to beat them 403 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: just because of you know who I am. Sure I 404 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: want to ask you this. I don't know you're a 405 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: full athletic background. But a big component I think of 406 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: youth sports is there's a push by club owners and such, 407 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: what we gotta get all this kid's attention. We gotta 408 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: get it all year round. So there's like a hyper specialization. Um. 409 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: And I'm just curious of your thoughts, like with your 410 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: own kids, would you want them to sample a variety 411 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: of things alway? Like no, we're gonna go and the 412 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: best you could be. And what are your thoughts on 413 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: the whole early specialization versus you know, kids playing multiple 414 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: sports at least sampling them while they're younger at least, Yeah, 415 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: for sure, I mean so many sports fun. Wrestling wasn't 416 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: even my favorite sport growing up. I just happened to be. 417 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: It was the sport that I was best at. And 418 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: so that's kind of why I decided to focus on it, 419 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: and not because I loved it most, but I was. 420 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: I got to high school and I weighed a hundred pounds, 421 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: and so I was like, well, I love playing football 422 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: for a long time, but it doesn't look like I'm 423 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: gonna go to the NFL. It's kind of time for 424 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: me to to kind of take that dose to reality 425 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: and say, Okay, well what can I do that will 426 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: give me the best opportunity to go to college? And 427 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: it was kind of a sober experience, but you know, 428 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: it was helpful because I got to specialize in something, 429 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: but not until much later in my career. Like when 430 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: I was a kid, I played a little bit of everything. 431 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: I did t ball, I ran track, I played football, 432 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: and then wrestling, you know, just so happened to be 433 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: the thing that I was best at. But you know, 434 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: my kids are in a little bit of everything. My 435 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: son he played soccer, he's in gymnastics, and then he 436 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: also wrestles as well. Um, so you know, I think 437 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,479 Speaker 1: a mixture of things trying to figure out what they enjoyed. 438 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: You know, I love wrestling, so I wanted them to 439 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: try it at a minimum um. But if they favor 440 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: something else and they become great as something else, and 441 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: you know that's just the nature of the beast, you 442 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: have to be willing to pivot and start to figure 443 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: out what else it is that they enjoy and if 444 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: that's something that doesn't happen to be in your wheelhouse, 445 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: and we can try to discover this new sport together. 446 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: But I don't want to like kind of pigeonhole them 447 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: into a position where they're like, Okay, I can only 448 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: do this because this is what dad really loves and 449 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: anything else is he's going to disagree with. I hope 450 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: that I'm not that guy. I love it. Last question, 451 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: tell me that you're gonna have a lot of parents. 452 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot of sports parents. You're gonna 453 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: have a lot of youth athletes. You're gonna have kids, 454 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: You're gonna have coaches. I gonna have a lot of 455 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: coaches that listen to this. And it's gonna be George, 456 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: It's gonna be all different sports. I mean, there's gonna 457 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: be a lot of baseball, basketball, I mean a ton 458 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: of wrestling too, but I mean every sport possible, soccer. People, 459 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: they're gonna be listening to you, going what what is 460 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: the best way? What's a piece of advice you'd give? 461 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: How do I get to go and be a college athlete? 462 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: What's the secret sauce? How do I get there? Is 463 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: there any tip that you can give these kids and 464 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: parents and how they can help the kids and how 465 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: the kids can out put themselves in the position to 466 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: become college athletes one day? Yeah, for sure. I think 467 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: first is they have to be men and women of character. 468 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: That's number one. Like, if you want to be great 469 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: at athletics, but also if you want to be someone 470 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: that's trustworthy and reliable that can be counted on, you're 471 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: gonna have to be a person of integrity. So, you know, 472 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: I think the first things first for parents, they need 473 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: to teach kids to be accountable. They need to teach 474 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: kids to handle a load of work and be consistent 475 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: with their efforts, and to teach them to be coachable, 476 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: to operate with humility, and then to also be good teammates, 477 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: to show up on time, to stay out of trouble, 478 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: and to do both academically and socially. That's going to 479 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: be the most important thing. People ask me all the 480 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: time like, how do I get into college if I 481 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: haven't shown the results that you know, ultimately i'd like 482 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: to have. Well, I'm like, well, there are a lot 483 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: of guys that I was teammates worth in college that 484 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: weren't the best guys in the team. Shoot, some of 485 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: them weren't even starters. But what they were were men 486 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: and women of integrity. They were always people that you 487 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: could count on. And they were guys that we call 488 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: low maintenance guys that basically you just tell them what 489 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: to do, and they made sure that it was dark. 490 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: And so I think too many people, because they're trying 491 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: to be great athletics, we forget to teach them how 492 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: to be great individuals. So it's like you've raised this 493 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: this athlete and they're phenomenal sportsman, but you know, they 494 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: don't know how to set an alarm clock. They don't 495 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: know how to you know, to talk to their tutors 496 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: and let them know that they're gonna be late today 497 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: or they're gonna miss, you know, a class because they've 498 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: got in a way, me like all of these little 499 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: things that people need to understand if you want to 500 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: truly teach your kids how to be great at the 501 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: elite level, Like you're gonna need to teach them how 502 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: to be men and women that people can trust, and 503 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: they're gonna have to be mature beyond their years, and 504 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: they're gonna have to learn how to communicate, and that's 505 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: gonna be the most important factor. But then besides that, 506 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: I think ultimately it's like you're gonna have to just 507 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: put them in a place where you can create structure 508 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: for them that they can find pleasure and joy out 509 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: of what it is that they're doing. Because wrestling is 510 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: a really hard sport. So if you push them too 511 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: hard too soon, they're gonna hate it and they're gonna quit, 512 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: or you know, I think you can make a different 513 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: approach where you say what feels right, how many what's 514 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: the frequency of practices that feels good? Where they're not overwhelmed, 515 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: and let's have an open relationship where we're constantly check 516 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: in and listen to their minds and their hearts and 517 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: saying hey, buddy, like, how how are you? How are 518 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: you doing? Bro? Like? Are you good? How it's practice? 519 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: Do you want to go against tomorrow? Like in understanding 520 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: the difference between laziness and you just being overwhelmed, because 521 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: I need there are a lot of times we're trying 522 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: to push them for the sake of making them great, 523 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: but we don't realize that we need to take a 524 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: step back and kind of analyze their feelings and how 525 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: their approach to the sport can be, you know, done 526 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: in a better way. So yeah, I think creating structure, 527 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: constantly checking on their hearts to make sure that they 528 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: love it, you know, teaching them commitment to something so 529 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, if we start this, we're gonna finish it, 530 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: and we're gonna see it through and then as seasons 531 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: and we can evaluate it. But also knowing that I'm 532 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: not pushing you to necessarily do this. If there's a 533 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: day or so that we feel like we need to 534 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: take a break, or we might have an alternative that 535 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: might be a little bit better, like doing those things. 536 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: And then obviously, you know, lastly, just teaching character and 537 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: making sure they're having a good time doing it. I 538 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: think all parents have great tensions, but we just have 539 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: poor execution, you know. So it's like we're not doing 540 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: this with a sort of maliciousness in our heart. We're 541 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: just kind of we wanted so bad for them, because 542 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: you know, most kids lack confidence and what we're trying 543 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: to get to saying hey, buddy, I need you to 544 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: hold yourself accountable, to do the right things because they're 545 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: the right things and not just because it's what Dad 546 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: told you to do. Like that's how you're going to 547 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: get what it is you know that you seek. So 548 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: the beauty for me and my own personal experiences, everything 549 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: that I own is based upon my hard work and 550 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: my character that I built through the support of wrestling. 551 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: So I get to show my kids the living embodiment 552 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: of everything that we have, that everything that we own, 553 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: all the things that we get to enjoy it. But 554 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: also I'm still competing. I'm an active competitor, so my 555 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: kids need to see what work looks like. I take 556 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: my practice with me multiple times a week so they 557 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: can see what work ethic looks like. They see train, 558 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: they see me cut wait, they see me in the 559 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 1: song and go for runs rather to bike, sweat, workout, stretch. 560 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: They see those things, so it's tangible. I think people 561 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: parents especially need to start to integrate their kids into 562 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: their work lives more so they can understand what it 563 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: is that their parents do. Because if you don't see work, 564 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: all you see. Is your dad come home from a 565 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: long day. You haven't seen them all day, and now 566 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he's been the newspaper, just sitting 567 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: on the couch, watch the TV. You're like, well, money's 568 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: in the bank, food is always on the table. We 569 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: have everything we need. I don't really know what my 570 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: dad does. All I ever seen him do is watch TV. So, 571 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's we're in a unique place 572 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: where we need to integrate our our families into our 573 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: work lives so we can show them. Hey, son, Like 574 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: this might be different and it might be indirect, but 575 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: this is what work looks up for me. Now, your 576 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: job is to work hard at school and also work 577 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: hard at your sports. And so I think that's gonna 578 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: be important to for for all the parents that have 579 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: to show their kids a way to work hard. They 580 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: need to integrate them into their workplace so they can 581 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: show them a tangible piece of what they do so 582 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: they can kind of get it, like, uh, this is 583 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: why mom and dad leave the house for eight hours 584 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: a day and our food always mysteriously appears in the refrigerator, right, 585 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: So I think that's something that we kind of need 586 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: to start to implement too, And you know, I think 587 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: all these things are good things, but ultimately, you know, 588 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: it's it's gonna come down to grace and the spirit 589 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: of the individual that we're trying to work on. Jordan Burrows, Man, 590 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: I wish we had another two hours. You are stud 591 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: you are a legend, a living legend, and you are 592 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 1: youth sports advocate man on top of an unbelievable athlete. Man, 593 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for your time. Yeah. Absolutely, bro, 594 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: thanks for having me a man as a pleasure. That's 595 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: Jordan Burrows, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. 596 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Reform Sports Project podcast dom 597 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: Nick Boncourt and Our goal is to restore a healthy 598 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: balance and perspective in all areas of sports through education 599 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, 600 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for 601 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: the Reform Sports Project