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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: In the last twenty four hours, an important conversation taking

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Speaker 2: place with two of the biggest leaders on the planet.

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Speaker 2: The President of the United States Donald Trump on a

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Speaker 2: phone call with the Russian President Vladimir Putin, as the

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Speaker 2: President makes a push for a thirty day ceasefire to

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Speaker 2: build on the developments of the last twenty four hours,

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Speaker 2: and pleased to say, we're joined now by Steve Widcoff,

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Speaker 2: the White House Special Envoy to the Middle East. Steve,

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Speaker 2: welcome to the program Sir, fantastic to get some time

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Speaker 2: with you. I know how much time you put in

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Speaker 2: with the Russian president to make this call happen. It's

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Speaker 2: not the first time you've spoken to him. It's not

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Speaker 2: the first time the President of the United States has

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Speaker 2: spoken to the Russian leader either. Could you set the

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Speaker 2: stage for a cert How different was this call?

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Speaker 3: I thought the call was epic, I thought, Jonathan, I

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Speaker 3: thought it was epic, transformational. You know, those are the

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Speaker 3: sorts of adjectives that I use about this core.

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Speaker 4: The president and.

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Speaker 3: President Trump and President Putin were in sync with one another.

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Speaker 3: The coll was outcome oriented. They were talking about how

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Speaker 3: to save lives, how to stop the carnage, and for me,

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Speaker 3: I was proud to be an American sitting there listening

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Speaker 3: to it.

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Speaker 2: Steve, let's talk about some of the outcomes. We're hopeful

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Speaker 2: that ultimately we end up with a thirty day ceasefire.

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Speaker 2: Before we get there, we're working towards things like a

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Speaker 2: prisoner swap. We're working towards a maritime ceasefire in the

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Speaker 2: Black Sea. That's important too. There was also a conversation

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Speaker 2: yes that about maybe an agreement to limit attacks on

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Speaker 2: energy infrastructure, and we'd love to build on that because

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Speaker 2: earlier on this morning we heard from the Ukrainian leader

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Speaker 2: who said that overnight Russia sent one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: drones and hit Ukrainian energy. I just wonder what was

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Speaker 2: actually agreed and where the rush across the line overnight.

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Speaker 3: Well, what was agreed between the two presidents was, and

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Speaker 3: it was at President Trump's suggestion, that there'd be a

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Speaker 3: cessation of attacks on energy infrastructure from both sides and

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Speaker 3: all and civilian infrastructure for that matter. Also working towards

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Speaker 3: a Black Sea moratorium on hits on naval vessels and

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Speaker 3: freighters carrying grain and things of that sort. And ultimately

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Speaker 3: that would evolve into a full on ceasefire, which is

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Speaker 3: a bit more complicated because there's a two thousand kilometer border,

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Speaker 3: there's Cursek, and there's a lot of details that go

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Speaker 3: into that. But with regard to your question on some

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Speaker 3: of the reporting with regard to the Russian drones last night,

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Speaker 3: I have it on good information from a telephone call

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Speaker 3: I had before I went on this show that President

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Speaker 3: Putin issued in order within ten minutes of his call

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Speaker 3: with the President directing Russian forces not to be attacking

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Speaker 3: any Ukrainian energy infrastructure. And that was and any attacks

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Speaker 3: that happened last night would have happened before that order

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Speaker 3: was given. In fact, the Russians tell me this morning

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Speaker 3: that seven of their drones were on their way when

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Speaker 3: President Putin issued his order and they were shot down

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Speaker 3: by Russian forces. So I tend to believe that President

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Speaker 3: Putin is operating in good faith. He said that he

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Speaker 3: was going to be operating in good faith to the

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Speaker 3: President yesterday, and I take him at his word.

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Speaker 5: So, mister rik Koff, is you're understanding that as of today,

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Speaker 5: energy facilities, energy infrastructure will be off limits.

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Speaker 4: That's my understanding, Yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 5: Do you think the next stage potentially, as we get

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Speaker 5: the roadmap towards thirty day full ceasefire, potentially geography should

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Speaker 5: be off limits like drones Kiev.

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Speaker 3: You know, I can't speak to that. I think the

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Speaker 3: idea behind the thirty day cease fire. First of all,

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Speaker 3: we made more progress yesterday than has been made in

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Speaker 3: the last three and a half years. They actually the

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Speaker 3: two leaders actually talked and committed to cessation of attacks

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Speaker 3: on energy infrastructure and civilian infrastructure. They talked about reviving

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Speaker 3: the Black Sea maritime agreement that had been negotiated several

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Speaker 3: years ago and never really implemented. Those are monumental things

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Speaker 3: and they're trust building things as well. And I think

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Speaker 3: beyond that, they also went into how you would put

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Speaker 3: the finishing touches on a full on ceasefire. That full

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Speaker 3: on ceasefire has a lot to do with this two

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Speaker 3: thousand kilometer line that where the Ukrainians are ligned up

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Speaker 3: against the Russians. It's complicated. There are different battlefield conditions

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Speaker 3: in various spots. That's for the technical teams to figure

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Speaker 3: it out. And they're going to be meeting in Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 3: I believe beginning Monday and Tuesday. So lots of progress

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Speaker 3: happened yesterday, and it happened in large part because of

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Speaker 3: President Trump.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that meeting in Saudi Arabia in the

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Speaker 2: next week or so. The team's going to be led

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Speaker 2: by I believe Secretary Rubio. I think we all want

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Speaker 2: to know what needs to happen at that meeting before

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Speaker 2: the two leaders end up in the same room to

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Speaker 2: get to that end deal that we all want to see.

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Speaker 2: What needs to happen in the next week.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm not sure that the Secretary of State has

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Speaker 3: done an amazing job, as has the National Security Advisor

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Speaker 3: Mike Waltz. They were both at the last meeting in Jedda.

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Speaker 3: It went well, lots of trust building happened, and I

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Speaker 3: believe on Monday we actually have the technical teams going

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Speaker 3: in why because that's what we're down to. We don't

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Speaker 3: need to have the larger overarching discussions that's been had

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Speaker 3: and it was completed yesterday between the two leaders. They

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Speaker 3: agreed on a pathway to some cease fire conditions today

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Speaker 3: and to a full on cease fire that will be

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Speaker 3: negotiated over the coming days. I actually think in a

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks we're going to get to it. So

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Speaker 3: lots of good things. Now it's for the technical teams

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Speaker 3: to dot the i's and cross the t's, and everybody

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Speaker 3: is committed to that process.

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Speaker 5: If you think we're going to get there in a

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks, could we then see a meeting in

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Speaker 5: person between President Trump and President Putin in the Kingdom?

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Speaker 3: You know, I can't speak for them, but my best

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Speaker 3: bet would be that it's likely to happen. They have

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Speaker 3: a great rapport together. They had a great rapport in

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Speaker 3: the first Trump administration. It was on display yesterday. This

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Speaker 3: was really a very positive, very proactive, outcome oriented call.

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Speaker 3: And that's who President Trump is. He's there to get

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Speaker 3: to the goal line, and we did. We went a

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Speaker 3: long way yesterday to doing that.

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Speaker 2: E've known the president a long long time, in back decades.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there's very few people that know him better

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Speaker 2: than you do. There's a lot of people speculating about

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Speaker 2: what the motives are, what the end objectives are. If

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Speaker 2: we could just sit on that for a moment. Does

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Speaker 2: the push for peace in Ukraine run parallel, whether push

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Speaker 2: to normalize US Russia relations or Steve. Are they separate issues.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't think there's any doubt that the two

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Speaker 3: are are important. For Russia is a critical relationship for US.

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Speaker 3: It's critical as it affects all other things out there, China, Iran,

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Speaker 3: the Middle East. These two leaders coming together and I

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Speaker 3: think having conversations about nuclear proliferation, which they did yesterday

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Speaker 3: and was enormously positive. These are this is enormously beneficial

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Speaker 3: for the world at large. And the President believes in this.

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Speaker 3: He believes in peace, he believes in engaging. He believes

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Speaker 3: in using peace through strength to uh to create a

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Speaker 3: better world for everybody. And with that could come a

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Speaker 3: drop in defense budgets. Take all that money and spend

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Speaker 3: it on things that matam more than waging war all

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Speaker 3: the time. This is his policy and so he's to

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Speaker 3: be commended for that. Yesterday was literally transformational as as

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Speaker 3: far as I am concerned.

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Speaker 1: Mister Rikoff, So then, is the idea of its normalization

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Speaker 1: to draw a wedge between Russia and China, and Russia

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Speaker 1: in Iran as well, to further isolate America's adversaries like

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Speaker 1: Tehran and Beijing.

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Speaker 3: I think normalization is about having real conversation President Biden,

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Speaker 3: according to President Putin, did not speak to President Putin

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Speaker 3: for three and a half years. That's not a proper

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Speaker 3: way to run policy. President Trump, in a short eight weeks,

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Speaker 3: has spoken to President Putin twice, very very positive and

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Speaker 3: constructive conversations. He's directed me on his behalf to go

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Speaker 3: to Moscow. I've had close to eight hours of conversations

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Speaker 3: with President Putin and met with other key people on

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Speaker 3: his team, and he's directed the National Security Advisor, the

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Speaker 3: Secretary of State, the CIA director Pete Hegseth, or Secretary

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Speaker 3: of Defense.

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Speaker 4: Everybody is engaged in.

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Speaker 3: This process, and it's really wonderful to see. I think

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Speaker 3: people ought to be uplifted, and I think you're going

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Speaker 3: to see some very very positive results in.

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Speaker 4: The near term.

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Speaker 2: In the lengthy conversations you have had with the Russian lead,

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Speaker 2: did restrictions on Russian energy come up? Until? Did they

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Speaker 2: come up yesterday?

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Speaker 3: When you see restrictions, Jonathan on Russian energy, what do

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Speaker 3: you I'm not sure what you're asking.

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Speaker 2: Restrictions on financial services, engaging in deals that restrict the

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Speaker 2: flow of Russian energy, the price camp that the Biden

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Speaker 2: administration pushed over the last year or so, Sir, a

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Speaker 2: variety of restrictions that make it difficult for Russian energy

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Speaker 2: to compete with energy elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: We did not discuss or the pardon made. The President

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Speaker 3: did not discuss specifically sanctions yesterday.

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Speaker 4: If that's what you're referring to.

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Speaker 3: I think, obviously that's a conversation that the two leaders

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Speaker 3: are going to have, and everybody's open to it.

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Speaker 4: But first and foremost, we want a solution.

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Speaker 3: To that means an end to the fighting.

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Speaker 4: We want to get to the ceasefire.

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Speaker 3: That's the President's policy, and we're going to get to

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Speaker 3: the ceasefire, and I think after that everything else will

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Speaker 3: be a detail sanction relief and all the other things

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Speaker 3: that go with a full on peace treaty.

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Speaker 5: Trump said last night to Fox News that Russia would

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Speaker 5: like to use some of the US economic power. This

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Speaker 5: is an individual who's been against the likes of Nordstream

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Speaker 5: Nordstream two for years. Mister Werkoff, you know that. But

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Speaker 5: can you see a world when Russian energy comes back

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Speaker 5: online via pipelines like Nordstream, Well.

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Speaker 4: I can certainly see that world.

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Speaker 3: But let me give you, let me give you an

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Speaker 3: exact ample about the deleterious effects here and why we

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Speaker 3: have to get to a solution. Russian oil today is

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Speaker 3: being sold cheap to China. I'm not sure that's such

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Speaker 3: a wonderful benefit of India. Okay, so you're underscoring my point.

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Speaker 3: So there are all these deleterious things that could come

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Speaker 3: from this, and I think the beginning of it is

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Speaker 3: a conversation. I think it's sort of unacceptable for two

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Speaker 3: world leaders of the stature of Asian, a Russian president

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Speaker 3: and an American president who haven't talked to three and

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Speaker 3: a half years. That's an unacceptable policy program for the president.

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Speaker 3: He wants to get things done, and you get things

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Speaker 3: done by getting on a telephone or meeting personally and

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Speaker 3: instructing your staffs to do that, which is what he's

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Speaker 3: done here.

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Speaker 4: Mister Rikof. It's a conversation.

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Speaker 5: We've had a lot on this programmers. The fact that

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Speaker 5: sanctions when it comes to Russia didn't change Putin's motives

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Speaker 5: and they still were able to fund the war by

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Speaker 5: selling a lot of these a lot of this energy.

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Speaker 5: It just created new markets for Russia to be willing

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Speaker 5: to trade. Scott Bessen, though the Treasury Secretary said the

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Speaker 5: other day that we will go to a ten and

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Speaker 5: bring sanctions if we have to on Russia to bring

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Speaker 5: Putin to the table. Do you see President Trump getting

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Speaker 5: to that point lifting sanctions to attend in order to

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Speaker 5: cajole Putin to the table for the ceasefire.

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Speaker 3: Look, Scott Bessen is a great Treasury secretary. I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to speak to what he had to say. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to say this. I've had two meetings at the

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Speaker 3: direction of President Trump with President Putin in the last

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Speaker 3: several weeks that have collectively aggregated to almost eight hours.

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Speaker 3: Many other people in the senior people in the administration

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Speaker 3: are having meetings with their colleagues and their counterparts there.

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Speaker 3: The President has directed all of this. There is amazing

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Speaker 3: progress being made. Yesterday, in one telephone call, we talked

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Speaker 3: about an immediate ceasefire on energy infrastructure that's game changing,

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Speaker 3: and also the Black Sea moratorium game changing, and the

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Speaker 3: contours of how we get to a personal cease fire,

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Speaker 3: a thirty day ceasefire.

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Speaker 4: Game changing.

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Speaker 3: Enormous progress as compared to where we were, because we're communicating,

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Speaker 3: we're talking in a collegial, constructive manner, and everybody is

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Speaker 3: outcome oriented. The outcome being the end of fighting there

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Speaker 3: and the end of the killing there.

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Speaker 2: We don't like to see that serve we could just

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Speaker 2: finish on Europe something we've not discussed in the last

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Speaker 2: ten minutes or so. The Europeans, Germany, and the EU

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Speaker 2: are pushing to rearm. They're set to spend hundreds of

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Speaker 2: billions of euros on defense. That's something that President Trump

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Speaker 2: has been pushing for for quite a while. Does he

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Speaker 2: welcome that, does he complicate talks in any way? Does

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Speaker 2: it antagonize Russia and make this harder? How does he

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Speaker 2: view that at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think the President has a policy which is

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Speaker 3: that Europe should pay more for their own defense. And

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Speaker 3: so I think to the extent that that's what's happening,

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Speaker 3: I think that that's a good thing. Rearming and all

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Speaker 3: the other stuff that leads to more conflagration, that leads

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Speaker 3: to that undermines a peace process, I would say that

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Speaker 3: that's not such a good thing. So, look, we're here

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Speaker 3: to get a deal in Russia and Ukraine, and we're

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Speaker 3: well on the way to getting it done, and I

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Speaker 3: think you're going to hear some You're going to hear

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Speaker 3: some really positive things happening as these talks continue.

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Speaker 5: Mister Rikoff, you're a successful businessman that is now really

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Speaker 5: at the height of diplomacy around the world. European strong

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Speaker 5: economic ties with Russia did not prevent Putin for his

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Speaker 5: full scale invasion of Ukraine in twenty twenty one. Do

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Speaker 5: you think it could prevent hostilities in the future if

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Speaker 5: we were to see a ceasefire and businesses in trade

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Speaker 5: were back to come into.

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Speaker 4: The fore I don't think there's any doubt.

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Speaker 3: I think the point is to get everybody focus not

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Speaker 3: on war, but on making their countries better, on spending

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Speaker 3: the money on their people in Ukraine, on rebuilding, on

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Speaker 3: doing on doing good things for their people. That's that's

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Speaker 3: how you get to a better place. And that's that's

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Speaker 3: President Trump's agenda throughout the world, and we see it

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Speaker 3: being very very His agenda is very effective. People buy

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Speaker 3: into it. I was on the phone with President Macrone

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Speaker 3: last night giving him a download of what happened, and

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Speaker 3: we had a really positive conversation about the outcome. So

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Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of buy in to President

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Speaker 3: Trump's leadership, the way he's leading the world today, not

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Speaker 3: just the United States. It's just it's just exceptional for

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Speaker 3: me to watch.

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Speaker 2: We've only got a few seconds left with you, sir,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's an important comment to make relations

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Speaker 2: with Europe. They are endorsing, are they this approach of

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Speaker 2: the president has taken? Because publicly they seem to be

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Speaker 2: saying one thing. Are they endorsing this approach?

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Speaker 4: Privately I'm hearing a lot of endorsement, Jonathan.

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Speaker 2: That's a very interesting development, Sir. I want to finish

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Speaker 2: on you personally, just for a moment, if we can,

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Speaker 2: for the people internationally that Anna Wess. You were widely

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Speaker 2: regarded as a talented negotiator, making a fortune in real

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Speaker 2: estate before taking on these responsibilities, and you seem to

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Speaker 2: be having an instant impact in the role. And it's

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Speaker 2: started in January before Trump even got into the White

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Speaker 2: House with the agreement the cease foreign hostage change between

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Speaker 2: Israel and Hamas in January. Can we just finish on

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Speaker 2: how transferable those skills actually are? How different is this

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Speaker 2: for you to go from that world of real estate

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Speaker 2: to this life and death in Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I went into the real estate business.

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Speaker 3: I was a young lawyer and I went in because

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be Donald Trump to tell you the truth,

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Speaker 3: and that really is the truth. By the way, I've

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Speaker 3: talked about this in the past. He was a great

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Speaker 3: real estate guy, and to a large extent I follow

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Speaker 3: his example when it comes to negotiating. The President is

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Speaker 3: all about clearing up misconceptions, clearing up miscommunication, figuring out

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Speaker 3: how to get a good deal for all stakeholders, all

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Speaker 3: constituents as a part of the deal, and then deciding

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Speaker 3: beforehand what the outcome he wants is. That's how deals

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Speaker 3: get structured, and they're not all that dissimilar in the

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Speaker 3: political realm, and that's.

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Speaker 4: How we've done it in the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: We follow his direction in that way and it's highly effective.

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Speaker 2: Steve, you've been generous with your time this morning, sir,

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Speaker 2: and we appreciate it. Here on Blimberg's Vinements, We've going

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Speaker 2: to do this again. Thank you very much for being

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Speaker 2: with us. The one House Special Envoy to Middle East,

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Speaker 2: that Steve Whitcuff