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Speaker 1: Hey, that folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Thursday, January twenty ninth, and Brendan Banfield, the

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Speaker 2: man accused in the so call Oh Pair affair double

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Speaker 2: murder trial, is on the stand and today, for the

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Speaker 2: first time any of us have heard his version of

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Speaker 2: events the day his wife and another man were killed

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Speaker 2: in his bedroom. And with that, welcome to this episode

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Speaker 2: of Amy and TJ. We've heard the prosecution story, We've

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Speaker 2: heard their star witnesses story, Robes, this is a much

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Speaker 2: different story. He's gone through the whole thing. You tell me,

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Speaker 2: first of all, is this a believable story?

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Speaker 3: This was a.

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Speaker 4: Hard one for me to fully get my head around

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Speaker 4: because the way Brendan Banfield told the story, I have

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Speaker 4: to believe and the jury has to believe that Joseph

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Speaker 4: Ryan came over to Christine Banfield's.

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Speaker 3: House to kill her.

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Speaker 4: That is hard for me to get my head around

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Speaker 4: because so far, what we've seen, in terms of any

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Speaker 4: sort of text messaging back and forth, it seemed as

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Speaker 4: though Joe Ryan was just a guy who was into

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Speaker 4: some role play, some kinky sex.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing in his.

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Speaker 4: Past and nothing that I've heard yet that would suggest

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Speaker 4: or give any kind of motive when someone has a

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Speaker 4: gun on you to start stabbing that person's wife, or

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Speaker 4: if he thought it was the police, why would he

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Speaker 4: then murder. I had a hard time with his version

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Speaker 4: of events.

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Speaker 2: And that was key, And I think you're right, Robes,

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Speaker 2: you couldn't get you. He he had me up to

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Speaker 2: that point. You just can't make sense of it. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of you been following this case. Is this

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Speaker 2: third full week I think maybe of this trial now.

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Speaker 2: But Brendan Banfield on tripal killing his wife Christine and

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Speaker 2: another man, Joe Ryan. According to prosecutors, Brendan Banfield hatched

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Speaker 2: a plan with his old pair who he was having

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Speaker 2: an affair with. Hatched a plan to set up a

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Speaker 2: fake fetish website account for Christine Banfield and then lure

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Speaker 2: this man over to have that man engage in some

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Speaker 2: kind of a sexual activity and then have Brendan Banfield

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Speaker 2: come in see this man attacking his wife, kill his wife,

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Speaker 2: kill the man, and then have the man take the

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Speaker 2: fall for the wife's death. That gets you caught up.

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Speaker 2: So the old pair, Robes tells this whole story. It

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Speaker 2: goes along with the prosecution story. Brendan Banfield finally got

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Speaker 2: on the stand. He has finished at least the direct

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Speaker 2: he is being cross examined as we're recording this there

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Speaker 2: at lunch right now. But Robes, we can take it

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Speaker 2: from the top. Let's go back to what he says

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Speaker 2: happened on that day. Why in the first place did

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Speaker 2: you get a good understanding of why he was called

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Speaker 2: back to the house. What was his understanding of why

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Speaker 2: the old pair had him come back.

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Speaker 4: His understanding was that someone pulled into the driveway, a man,

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Speaker 4: and had walked into their house. So he's like, what

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Speaker 4: the hell, I don't know anything about that, So fine,

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Speaker 4: I can buy that. I can buy him not using

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Speaker 4: the front door because it was gonna make noise to

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Speaker 4: get in through the basement.

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Speaker 3: He claims he left his daughter and the o pair.

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Speaker 4: In the basement while he went to go check it

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Speaker 4: up with his check it out with his firearm.

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Speaker 2: Now back up there, he told her not to come

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Speaker 2: in the house. His story is that when he got

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Speaker 2: back to the house, the pair and the daughter were

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Speaker 2: outside in the car. He pulls in, tells them to

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Speaker 2: stay outside, and goes in, and then she defies what

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Speaker 2: he said and comes in later.

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Speaker 3: That is all believable. Reasonable, that's all reasonable.

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Speaker 4: And believable, and the fact that he said stay down here,

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Speaker 4: and then he goes up stairs to check out to

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Speaker 4: see who's in the house. And he said at that

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Speaker 4: point he testified that he thought maybe it was Christine

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Speaker 4: having an affair, because they had both had affairs before,

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Speaker 4: but he was nervous because he had never actually neither

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Speaker 4: one of them had ever caught the other in the

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Speaker 4: act Babel speak.

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Speaker 2: They told each other about it. I think it's what

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Speaker 2: he explained. But he explained this robes he goes up

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Speaker 2: I this part got when he said he heard sounds

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Speaker 2: sound like skin slapping against each other. He said he

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Speaker 2: actually gave thought to leaving. That he actually considered because

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Speaker 2: he went back in there with lunch or something that

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Speaker 2: was in the refrigerator need to take out to Juliana.

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Speaker 2: He considered leaving where he thinks he hears his wife

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Speaker 2: having sex with another man, and just leaving the house

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Speaker 2: and let it be and taking it up later.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and he's he says, he testified this morning that

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Speaker 4: when he thought he heard moaning and skin on skin,

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Speaker 4: he was going to leave, but then he said he

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Speaker 4: heard it changed. The sounds changed. He said it sounded

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Speaker 4: more like an impact sound. It sounded forceful, and what

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Speaker 4: he thought was moaning actually sounded painful. He said, Christine

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Speaker 4: sounded like she was being hurt, and that is when

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Speaker 4: he made the decision to go upstairs. Fine, still somewhat believable.

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Speaker 2: Yes, up his story so far, you can buy it nothing.

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Speaker 2: At this point you necessarily challenged with His phrase was

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Speaker 2: from painful from pleasurable to painful is how it transitioned. Okay,

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Speaker 2: whatever he's hearing. And I think he said the door

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Speaker 2: was kind of cracked open, wasn't fully closed. So here

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Speaker 2: we go. As he's now upstairs, gun drawn, I r s.

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Speaker 2: Agent will remind you he carries a badge. He starts

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Speaker 2: seeing Juliana come upstairs. He told her to stay downstairs,

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Speaker 2: sees her starting to come up, he goes into the room, ropes.

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Speaker 2: This is the moment, right, we have all been waiting

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Speaker 2: to hear. I was not expecting to hear what I

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Speaker 2: heard from him today about what he saw when he

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Speaker 2: walked in that room.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he said they were. And here's the other interesting thing.

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Speaker 4: He did say Joe still had his clothes on and

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Speaker 4: was looking directly at him, and that Christine was on

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Speaker 4: all fours on her knees.

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Speaker 3: Now, how was their skin on skin?

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Speaker 4: If Joe had his clothes on, I did catch that,

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Speaker 4: and I didn't know if he had an explanation or

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Speaker 4: maybe I'm reading too much between the lines.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, you couldn't make the argument. Was he really

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Speaker 2: hearing skin on sin? Was his skin? He could have

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Speaker 2: been someone slapping skin again, heard and an attorney can

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Speaker 2: explain that away.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're concerned. Valid.

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Speaker 4: But he says that he came in and he said

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Speaker 4: police holding his gun forward, and that Christine said, Brendan,

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Speaker 4: he has a knife. And he said that Joe Ryan

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Speaker 4: told him to drop his gun, and he told.

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Speaker 1: Joe Ryan to drop his knife. So here we go.

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Speaker 2: We got some kind of a standoff in Brendan Banfield's bedroom.

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Speaker 2: This scene.

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Speaker 1: As he starts to explain this, it doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 4: Now, he said he couldn't see if Christine had already

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Speaker 4: been injured because she had her hair over her face.

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Speaker 3: But he said that even after he.

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Speaker 4: Told him to drop his knife and he had a

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Speaker 4: gun on him, that Joe Ryan decided to just eventually

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Speaker 4: he went.

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Speaker 3: It took a while for him to get there.

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Speaker 4: But started to basically stab Christine in front of him.

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Speaker 2: I said, he first noticed what blood in her hair

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Speaker 2: is something he noticed he shoots at this point, he said,

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Speaker 2: when he saw him make that forceful motion with the

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Speaker 2: knife to her neck, that's when he actually shoots Joe Ryan.

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Speaker 1: Joryan goes down.

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Speaker 2: I think he said he had to step over him

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Speaker 2: to get to Christine to try to give her aid. Yes,

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Speaker 2: but he goes to Christine. Apparently this wound is awful,

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Speaker 2: according to him, to the point it's pretty awful to hear,

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Speaker 2: but she was putting pressure on her neck. He put

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Speaker 2: his hand on hers to put pressure on the wound

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Speaker 2: as well. She, according to him, removes her hand from

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Speaker 2: under his and puts hers on top of his, instructing

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Speaker 2: him to press hard, to press harder. And at this

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Speaker 2: point this was a tough detail to hear, that the

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Speaker 2: wound was so bad. He said, his fingers actually went

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Speaker 2: inside her neck, how bad the wound was, and that's

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Speaker 2: when he first realized just how bad.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 2: Now Joe Ryan is down, Juliana is in the room,

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Speaker 2: and he tells her to watch him, keep an eye

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Speaker 2: on him. Right now. Juliana disappears for a second. He

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Speaker 2: didn't see where she went, but she comes back. He

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Speaker 2: has no idea what's going on, and he hears another shot.

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Speaker 2: Said it shocked the hell out of him and turn

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Speaker 2: around stunned to see Juliana standing there with a gun,

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Speaker 2: a gun that was his, that was supposed to be

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Speaker 2: locked up.

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Speaker 4: Yes, but he did, I guess later testify that the

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Speaker 4: key I guess the key lock or it was a

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Speaker 4: touch pad, was the same as the front door, so

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Speaker 4: she knew the combo, so that wouldn't be unreasonable that

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Speaker 4: she would be able to get the gun out. But

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Speaker 4: he said, yes, he was stunned, he was shocked, and

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Speaker 4: he said he was just focused right then on kneeling

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Speaker 4: down next to Christine, and he said she was This

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Speaker 4: was actually really difficult to hear, and he did get

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Speaker 4: emotional when he was describing that she was writhing and

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Speaker 4: that she was having a tough time. She was choking,

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Speaker 4: she was coughing up blood, and he was rolling her over.

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Speaker 4: I mehan, he was describing this horrific scene. Something that

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Speaker 4: really got me too is when he and I know

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Speaker 4: that she's got family in the courtroom, but just to

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Speaker 4: hear this, that that she told him that she was

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Speaker 4: sorry and that she loved him.

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Speaker 2: That was tough happened, and that's just what he discussed.

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Speaker 2: These are two ropes, vastly different stories. Somebody is not

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Speaker 2: just just playing with a few facts. Somebody's flat out

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Speaker 2: telling bold face lies. These two story people are on

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Speaker 2: the stand perjuring themselves in this trial.

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Speaker 1: They somebody is lying.

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Speaker 3: And they are.

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Speaker 4: And when you see, you know, we watched Juliana vio

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Speaker 4: Pier testify and she was defiant about what happened. I

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Speaker 4: mean that was more of her attitude was very much

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Speaker 4: like that. And then you hear and see with your

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Speaker 4: own two eyes in your ears listening to and watching

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Speaker 4: Brendan Banfield seemingly emotionally describe this horrific scene that he

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Speaker 4: didn't think he was going to walk in on. But

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Speaker 4: it's just some of the facts. This is about common sense.

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Speaker 4: A lot of time we've talked about this, and much

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Speaker 4: of what he testified to yesterday actually was we were

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Speaker 4: very much in his camp, Like it made sense what

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Speaker 4: he was saying and how he was saying.

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Speaker 2: We qualify that about being in his camp. I know

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Speaker 2: what you mean, Yeah, I know what you mean.

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Speaker 4: Sense It made common sense what he was saying made

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Speaker 4: sense to me, and so he was garnering traction from me,

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Speaker 4: like in terms of his believability and the credibility of

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Speaker 4: his story versus Juliana's.

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Speaker 1: Story that was on direct yesterday from his attorney.

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Speaker 2: What we saw this morning again was from his attorney,

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Speaker 2: but totally different. We walk away feeling totally differently about

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Speaker 2: what we heard today. Robes I don't have and we

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Speaker 2: were listening closely. Maybe we'll go back and listen again.

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Speaker 2: I don't have a good understanding of how she sustained

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Speaker 2: those wounds. From Joe Ryan, it didn't make sense that

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Speaker 2: if somebody has a gun on you, you have a

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Speaker 2: knife to his wife's neck, just kill her.

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Speaker 4: I'm just gonna keep stabbing. Don't you know someone has

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Speaker 4: a gun on you?

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Speaker 2: It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He

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Speaker 2: what did he say? He said that he told Brendan

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Speaker 2: Banfield tally. According to Brendan Banfield, Joe Ryan told him

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Speaker 2: to leave, and then at one point Joe Ryan said, hey.

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Speaker 1: Can I just leave?

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Speaker 3: That was also very damning.

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was so curious as to how he thought.

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Speaker 4: Look if he's if he's making this up, that's a

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Speaker 4: weird thing to say, because if the guy asks Brendan

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Speaker 4: to leave, Brendan's like, you're under arrest.

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Speaker 3: I believe he said.

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Speaker 4: He told him you're under arrest, has a gun on him,

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Speaker 4: and then he says, can I leave? And when he

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Speaker 4: says you're under arrest, he decides to stab Christine in

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Speaker 4: front of him instead of dropping the knife putting his

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Speaker 4: hands up. It doesn't because you know, a gun is

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Speaker 4: no match or a knife, sorry, is no match for

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Speaker 4: a gun.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't a hardened criminal or something.

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Speaker 3: He was just a guy looking to have some kinky sex.

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Speaker 3: And so that to me doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 4: No one with a knife in their hand and a

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Speaker 4: and a victim right there is going to take on somebody.

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Speaker 3: Who has a gun.

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Speaker 2: That's a tough one to get over, just as a

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Speaker 2: human being. That's a just doesn't make sense. Could it happen?

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Speaker 2: Have happened this way? Obviously, yes, but that one didn't

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Speaker 2: make sense. But folks, the like we mentioned, they're in

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Speaker 2: a lunch break. Now the prosecution is getting its go

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Speaker 2: across examination. Now we were able to see just the

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Speaker 2: beginning of it. It is going to pick back up

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Speaker 2: after lunch, but stay here we'll tell you how explosive

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Speaker 2: that thing has already gotten in just a few minutes

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Speaker 2: and the few questions the prosecutors have been able to ask.

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Speaker 1: Brendan Manfield. Stay hear.

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Speaker 2: We continue here on Amy and TJ. One of the

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Speaker 2: most critical days in the Old Pair affair double murder trial.

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Speaker 2: Brendan Banfield, the defendant, is on the stand, testifying in

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Speaker 2: his own defense. The ross examination is under way. Prosecutors

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Speaker 2: are getting to ask him some questions. Wrote remind me

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Speaker 2: when the questions about sex came up. Was that still

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Speaker 2: with his attorney or that yeah, that was his attorney?

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Speaker 4: She kept objecting, Yes, it was very Yes, it was

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Speaker 4: very disruptive once again, but his defense attorney was asking

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Speaker 4: him about basically it was kind of explaining the affairs.

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Speaker 3: That he had a higher sex drive than his wife.

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Speaker 4: So they were talking about that, trying to explain basically

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Speaker 4: perhaps why they were both having affairs and why maybe

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Speaker 4: Christine had different interests than him and sexually, and that

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Speaker 4: could have explained perhaps the scene he walked in. On

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Speaker 4: the other thing, I thought was interesting that we didn't

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Speaker 4: mention before the break, which I thought was just kind

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Speaker 4: of a drop the mic moment the defense attorney was

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Speaker 4: trying to find a way to end the testimony, the

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Speaker 4: direct testimony with Brandon. He couldn't land his plane because

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Speaker 4: the prosecutor kept interrupting. But eventually he did elicit this

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Speaker 4: response in terms of what he was trying to ask Brandon,

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Speaker 4: what you have done differently if you could go back

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Speaker 4: into the room, And she kept objecting, saying relevance, relevance,

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Speaker 4: But eventually he was able to get Brendan to say

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Speaker 4: this line, I wish I shot him earlier, speaking of

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Speaker 4: Joe Ryan, meaning if he had shot him earlier, he

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Speaker 4: could have stopped him from continuing to stab Christine. Again,

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Speaker 4: It's just a hard thing for me to imagine that

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Speaker 4: Joe Ryan, with a gun on him, with someone who

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Speaker 4: says police, who has a badge that may be exposed

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Speaker 4: right there in his midsection, is going to choose to

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Speaker 4: stab someone after the guns on him.

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Speaker 2: Again, It's possible, but that is one it's hard to

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Speaker 2: get over if you're in that jury room. That one

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Speaker 2: just is a difficult one to make sense of. And

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Speaker 2: then you go to the evidence. What does the evidence show?

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Speaker 2: Does the evidence is it consistent?

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Speaker 1: Robes?

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Speaker 2: Can you remember is it consistent, her wounds consistent. Will

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Speaker 2: the story he just described.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to say, because you know if he tried,

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Speaker 4: According to the prosecution, he tried to stage the scene.

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Speaker 3: He tried to.

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Speaker 4: Drip the blood on her from Joe Ryan's hand. But

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Speaker 4: he did say this, I never touched Joe Ryan. He

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Speaker 4: did testify to that today.

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Speaker 2: Never touched Joe Ryan, never touched the laptop, never touched

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Speaker 2: the cell phone of Christine. He said on that day

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Speaker 2: he didn't touch any of that stuff. Oh, Robes, this

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Speaker 2: cross examination is going to be something. We'll let you

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Speaker 2: know how the day is going to go. They're coming

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Speaker 2: back from lunch here in just a little bit, and

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Speaker 2: the prosecutor she only got a few questions in right

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Speaker 2: before the lunch break. Don't know how long this will

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Speaker 2: go now, Robes, because there was some thought that they

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Speaker 2: could wrap up and jury could get the instructions today.

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Speaker 2: But now the prosecutor says they have a rebuttal witness

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Speaker 2: someone somewhere who heard something in Brendan Banfield's testimony yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Robes that said.

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Speaker 2: Nah, and called up and the prosecutor said, we didn't

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Speaker 2: even know about this until yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So there is a surprise rebuttal witness.

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Speaker 4: She said, this person's name first off in court, and

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Speaker 4: I think they were even getting it wrong. It was

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Speaker 4: they were trying to figure out what it was, and

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Speaker 4: I was hoping they were going to discuss who it

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Speaker 4: was and give some sort of indication. And the defense

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Speaker 4: attorney said, you know what, we'll do it when we

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Speaker 4: have a private moment. We'll discuss because obviously the defense

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Speaker 4: needs time to figure out how to then cross examine

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Speaker 4: this rebuttal witness. But if the prosecution said, hey, we

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Speaker 4: didn't know about it either. But it was because of

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Speaker 4: Brendan Banfield's testimony that this person spoke up and said,

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Speaker 4: I want to refute something that Brendan Banfield testified to

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Speaker 4: that is going to be very interesting and certainly was

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Speaker 4: a surprise to everyone this morning, including the defense.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so when the gross examination started, her first or

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Speaker 2: her second question ended up in a sidebar with the

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Speaker 2: attorneys with the questions what was it she was trying

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Speaker 2: to get out of him. Oh yeah, She was saying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're telling this story, and the first time you told

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Speaker 2: it is today here in this courtroom. You had three

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Speaker 2: years to talk to all these investigators. There was another

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Speaker 2: legal this and that, and he said, yep, this is

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Speaker 2: the first time. And he explained, my attorneys advised me

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Speaker 2: not to talk to y'all and not to do this

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Speaker 2: and not to do that.

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Speaker 4: Yes, he said, I told counsel. I told my attorneys

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Speaker 4: that I would sit down with anyone and explain exactly

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Speaker 4: what happened and tell my side of things, and I

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Speaker 4: was advised by my attorneys not to do so. And look,

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Speaker 4: that is fair by that, that is absolutely something. Look,

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Speaker 4: we've known and talked to plenty of defense attorneys. That

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Speaker 4: is the first thing a experienced defense attorney, criminal defense

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Speaker 4: attorney will tell their client, do not speak. I know

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Speaker 4: you want to I know you want to say it.

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Speaker 4: I know you want to tell your side of things.

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Speaker 4: You cannot, should not do not save it for trial.

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Speaker 3: That is what they tell their clients.

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Speaker 1: Innocent, they'll tell you to shut up.

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Speaker 3: And that's so hard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's hard to do. So, folks, we will

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Speaker 2: keep an eye on it. Please keep an eye on

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Speaker 2: our feed. We will definitely be hopping back on to

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Speaker 2: give an update about his testimony and the cross examination

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Speaker 2: by prosecution. But for now, we appreciate you, as always

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Speaker 2: spending some time and following along with us, But I

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Speaker 2: am t J. Holmes On behalf of my dear Amy Robot.

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Speaker 2: We will be talking to you all real soon