1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: and I'm Delina Chok reboarding and we are continuing with 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: our spooky Halloween series. It's time covering something that's very creepy, 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: very disturbing, and that is of course poison. So just 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: a few years back, Katie and I did an episode 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: on a pretty notorious poisoning family. You know what I'm 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: talking about, delay the Borges. Borges, they have their own 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: show these days. But the Italian clan, of course was 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: bothered by a cardinal who became pope, and they are 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: famous for plotting and scheming and murdering their way into power. Um. 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: I think the luckiest fellow in that earlier episode seemed 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: to be Lucretia's first husband, Giovanni Swortza, who, in exchange 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: for broadcasting his non existing impotence, was allowed to get 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: out of the marriage alive. That's pretty bad if he's 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: the luckiest guy in the episode. Yeah, but many many 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: others were not so lucky. As you know, the Borges 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: had a heavy hand with arsenic and nasty poison, particularly 19 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: effective because it's so hard to taste or detect. Pure arsenic, 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: just to give you a little background, is a heavy 21 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: metal sometimes found in or but when heated with oxygen, 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: pure arsenic becomes arsenic trioxide or white arsenic, a crumbly powder, 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: something that could be mixed in easily. Yeah, you can 24 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: mix it in with a lot of things, with the beverages, 25 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: but also with food. Administered in one killer dose or 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: slipped in a bit over time. Either way, it mimics 27 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: a natural decline in health. That's why it's so deadly. 28 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: If it's given bit by bit, it looks like some 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: kind of natural decline. If it's given in one big dose, 30 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: that can look similar to other catastrophic illnesses, and the 31 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: borgia is apparently further refined white arsnac. They weren't just 32 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: satisfied with this already potent killer. They made almost their 33 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: own family poison, essentially just for their youth, and so 34 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: ultimately the family name, and especially that of the famous daughter, 35 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 1: Lucrezia borgia but camberly a bye word for poisoner, one 36 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: that still had weight to it more than four hundred 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: years later, when the American tabloids started calling a New 38 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: Jersey housewife America's Lucrezia Borgia, and this lady who were 39 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: going to talk about today had the distinction of being 40 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: tried not once, not twice, but three times for murder 41 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: by arsnake, So she racked up a few counts here 42 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: she did. And um, it's it's a very interesting story, 43 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: and it's one that's covered in depth in Deborah Bloom's 44 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: book The Poisoner's Handbook, which has come up on the 45 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: show before. We mentioned it during our Radium Girls episode. Um, 46 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: it's been up a few times in research for us. 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: It has it's a good source for this story. And 48 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: I also want to say before we get going to 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: this is one of those stories where you really are 50 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: glad that it's in the twentieth century because you can 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: check out the newspaper archival records, and I have so 52 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: much fun going through these old nineteen twenties nineteen thirties 53 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: newspaper articles and looking at their crazy tabloid e headlines, 54 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: even when it's the New York Times, and reading about 55 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: the trial as it as it happened day by day, 56 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: watching it unfold in what So, just to give you 57 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: a little background of how this all began, the modern 58 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: Lucrezia named Mary Francis Creighton or Fanny, was a twenty 59 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: four year old from Newark, New Jersey, when she was 60 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: first arrested in nine She had been raised by her 61 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: grandparents with a brother and two sisters, and married her 62 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: childhood friend and World War One veteran John Crichton a 63 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: few years before this arrest. They had a three year 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: old daughter named Ruth and a son, John Jr. Who 65 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: was born while Fanny awaited trial in prison and to 66 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: the outside world and to the tabloids certainly, which loved 67 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: this sensational story. Fanny had very good looks and as 68 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: a young mother in prison, just presented a very compelling 69 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: sort of narrative. But to the outside world she really 70 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: did seem like an unlikely poison er. She she kept 71 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: to herself, but not in a weird, creepy kind of way. 72 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: She dressed demurely in all black. Through her media appearances. 73 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: She wore a very prominent silver cross, and she would 74 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: pose for these press photos with her infant in arms. 75 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: Uh she she didn't. She seemed like a normal lady. 76 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: Not somebody came in conservative who who had murdered with 77 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 1: arsenic So the story seemed to have started right after 78 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: the Crichton's marriage, Fanny and John had moved into his 79 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: family's comfortable, newer home. John It's forty seven year old 80 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: mother died within the year after they moved in, supposedly 81 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: of some type of bacterial infection that caused extreme nausea. 82 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: Within two years, Creighton's forty seven year old father was 83 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: also dead in this case from heart trouble. So I 84 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: don't know kind of a sudden decline in the health 85 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: of they. But a couple of years after the the 86 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 1: elder Mr. And Mrs Critton had died, Fanny's teenage brother, Charles, 87 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: came to live with the family, and this was in 88 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: nineteen three, and he essentially acted as their housekeeper at 89 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: the babysitter for Ruth. Plus he got a job down 90 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: at the corner store, sort of just acting a stock 91 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: boy position. But by April of that year, so just 92 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: a few months after moving in with his sister and 93 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: brother in law, Charles started feeling not so great and 94 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: he went to the doctor. The doctor prescribed him some 95 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: sort of mild medicine and I thought he had a 96 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: minor in fact ocean A week later, though, he went 97 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: back to the doctor. His ache had really gotten worse. 98 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: He was feeling very thick all the time. He had 99 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: a really bad sore throat. So again the doctor upped 100 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: the dose of the tonic he had prescribed. By April, 101 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: though Charles was dead. So suddenly the situation starts to 102 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: look a little different. We have three dead people in 103 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: the Crichton household in almost as many years, three people 104 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: who hadn't been ill before, just suddenly very very sick. 105 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: Blue describes this death as the first sort of warning sign, 106 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: though not a very strong one. It seems the doctor 107 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: just wondered what went wrong here with this seemingly healthy teen. 108 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: He even asked the advice of a county physician. Ultimately, 109 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: they ruled that the death was caused by a simple 110 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 1: stomach bug, even though the doctor still felt a little 111 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: funny about this entire case, and he even began thinking 112 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the death of Mr and 113 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: Missus Crichton. The elder. Yeah, so so the doctors is 114 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: pondering this a little bit, but still nobody thinks foul 115 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: play was involved. And that's until an anonymous tipster rode 116 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: into the police asking, quote, is death not ground for suspicion? 117 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: This boy feared his sister as he feared death. I'm 118 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: very sorry that I cannot sign my name. I'm just 119 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: an outsider who is very fond of this boy. Please 120 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: act quickly and beware you will find it hard to 121 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: trap this liar. WHOA. Yeah, that's a pretty serious note 122 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: to get, and it certainly got the police looking closer 123 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: at not just Charles's death, but considering the earlier death 124 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: of the Crichton's as well. Yeah, they started to find 125 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: other suggestions that something here was amiss when they started 126 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: looking closer. As you said, Fanny had convinced her brother 127 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: to purchase a one thousand dollar life insurance paul See 128 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: for instance, with her as the beneficiary. Right, and charles 129 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: employer told them how the boy would complain about being 130 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: force fed chocolate pudding at home by his sister. They 131 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: both thought that was a little strange, and shortly after 132 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: you know this questioning and investigation, Charles's body was exhumed 133 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: and did test positive for arsenic. At that point, Fanny 134 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: and her husband John were arrested for murder. The only 135 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: real problem with this case was that there was no 136 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: clear source of arsenic in the crimean home. There was 137 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: just the best the detectives could find was something called 138 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: Fowler's solution, which was a type of face tonic that 139 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: contained arsenic for clear skin. Um. Fanny was known for 140 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: having a very beautiful complexion. And even though arsenic was 141 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: laced through a lot of household products at the time 142 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: rat poison for instance, bug poison, green dye, and wallpapers, 143 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: fly traps, you read this book, you'll be like, oh 144 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: my gosh, in everything people were handling, even though it 145 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: was in a lot of stuff, it was not very 146 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: highly concentrated in this face tonic. But because it was 147 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: the only household source they could find, it was the 148 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: basis for the case that it seemed that Fanny and 149 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: John must have poisoned young Charles with face tonic, arsenic 150 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: and face tonic put into chocolate pudding. In her book, 151 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: a Bloom writes about Rudolph Whitouse, a nineteenth century chemist 152 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: who wrote a definitive book on forensic medicine. So while 153 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: we think of arsenic and relation to the Italian Renaissance, 154 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: it was also a great favorite of poisoners in the 155 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, one of the most popular poisons. In fact, 156 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: according to Whitouse, that's not because it was undetectable. As 157 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: you might imagine. Since the early eighteen hundreds, pathologists could 158 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: actually find arsenic in the body, and over that century 159 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: many tests have been developed to locate it. It could 160 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: also last in the body for a ages. It was 161 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: detectable in hair and nails for decades, which makes you 162 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: think maybe poisoners wouldn't want it to be a great poison. 163 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: But poisoners did still have a few things going for 164 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: them with arsenic. One was that unless an autopsy was done, 165 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: so unless somebody did get suspicious about the death, arsnake 166 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: deaths really could look a lot like something else, like 167 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: food poisoning or cholera. Even the flu um those low 168 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: doses you were talking about this how it can be 169 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: administered slowly over time, those could look a lot like 170 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: gradually worsening health, something like heart failure. And even if 171 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: the body was studied, even if there was an autopsy conducted, 172 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: the presence of arsenic could sometimes be really tricky to 173 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: interpret because partly because at least there were trace amounts 174 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: of arsenic in a lot of common things. I mean, 175 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: we already mentioned all those household items where it is 176 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: the main ingredient, but there's a little bit of arsenic 177 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: in a lot of common items that people would use 178 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: at the time, so it could be in the body. 179 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: There was the potential for something to be contaminated with arsenic. 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: It was just tricky to interpret. Consequently, even in the 181 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds, when Whitouse wrote his book, he noted 182 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: that it was quote in almost every instance the agent 183 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: used by those who, having succeeded in a first attempt 184 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: at secret poisoning, have seemed to develop a lust for 185 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: murder and have continued to add to their list of 186 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: victims until their very number had to arouse suspicion and 187 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: lead to detection. Okay, so that's something to remember as 188 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: we as we go on. Kind of a calling card 189 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: of many arsenic murders. But during Charles's murder trial, the 190 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: Cretan Floyer really focused on the case's weakest point, which 191 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: was of course that the poison had supposedly come from 192 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: the Creton's home and had specifically been this weak facial tonic. 193 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: He pointed out that lots of women have this tonic 194 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: in their home. It is not a strange thing to 195 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: have about, and also it would take loads of it 196 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: to kill a grown man and This was sort of 197 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: the main point here. Remember, Charles had worked at a 198 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: corner store, so a place where there would be a 199 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: ready supply of products way heavier on arsenic than this 200 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: Fowler's of solution, you know, things with arsenic like rat poison, 201 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: for instance. So the lawyer was starting to sort of 202 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: present an alternate theory that maybe Charles had done this himself. 203 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: Maybe he was distraught over some failed romance. He had 204 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: easy access to arsenic laced products, and it his sister 205 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: and brother in law had nothing to do with it. 206 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: He also downplayed that one thousand dollar insurance policy as 207 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: a motive. He insinuated that that was just enough to 208 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: cover the funeral expenses, so why would that be exactly 209 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: So it worked. The Cridings were acquitted on June. Fanny, 210 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: so we're leaved fainted in the courtroom, or perhaps playing 211 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: into her her tabloid image a little bit. Fanny wasn't 212 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: on the outside for very long. It's just one day later, Fanny, 213 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: and it was just Fanny. This time. Her husband was 214 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: was not involved in the second round. She was arrested 215 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: again for a murder. Yeah, the senior Mr. And Mrs 216 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: Crichton had been exhumed. By this time, they had been 217 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: exhumed in May, and while Mr Crichton's cause of death 218 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: held out, Mrs Crichton's body was clearly touched by arsenic. 219 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: Some of the testimony seemed more damning this time. The 220 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: elder Mrs Crichton's nurse, for example, testified that her patient 221 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: got sick after Fanny gave her coco and worsened when 222 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: she had been left alone with her daughter in law. 223 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: So chocolate seems to be playing a big part here. 224 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: With the cocoa and chocolate, that might be one that 225 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: disguises the taste of arsenic easily. But this case really 226 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: came at the cusp of an interesting time and for 227 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: an six science that really at a time when forensic 228 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: evidence was becoming a major component of trials. And so consequently, 229 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: both sides included testimony from the country's top pathologists, you know, 230 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: guys who had analyzed the organs of Mrs Crichton and 231 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: could testify to some extent about the arsenic that was 232 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: present there. And the defense called on a guy named 233 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: Alexander Getler, who was a toxicologist at the Chief Medical 234 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: Examiner's Office in New York City and Incidentally, Getler is 235 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: one of the prime subjects in the book We Keep Mentioning, 236 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: which is all about sort of the birth of modern 237 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: forensic science in New York City, so it really follows 238 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: his story. But he plays a very strange role in 239 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: this case, as you're going to continue to see. But 240 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: he had tested Mrs Cratton's organs and he did find 241 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: white arsenate present. But you know how a minute ago 242 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: we mentioned that the presence of arsenate could sometimes be 243 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: a little tricky to interpret. Getler found that in addition 244 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: to these trace amounts of arsenic in MRUs Crichton's body, 245 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: there were large amounts of bismuth in her body, which 246 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: was a common element in anti nausea medicine at the 247 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: time and one that sometimes also included trace amounts of arsenic. 248 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,239 Speaker 1: It held out Mrs Creighton's doctor had, in fact prescribed 249 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: her a bismuth based medicine, so they knew that she 250 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: had been taking this. So Gittler's opinion was that because 251 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: of those small amounts of arsenic and large amounts of bismuth, 252 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: he assumed she had taken medicine that was contaminated. It 253 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: had had more arsenic in it than was safe to ingest, 254 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: and that testimony proved compelling because again, for for the 255 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: second time in a very short span of time, Fanny 256 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: Krichten was acquitted. So after this years go by, and 257 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: those tabloids that were all in a tizzy over this 258 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: beautiful American Lacrezia Borgia with her infant, and are they 259 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: just kind of go away exactly, and the Craton's along 260 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: with their two kids, they decide to escape New York. 261 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: They just have too much notoriety there, and they moved 262 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: to Long Island, not so far away, but I guess 263 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: enough to give them a little bit of a fresh start. 264 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: They hadn't been terribly popular with their neighbors in New 265 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: York too, I'm sure, And in the midst of the 266 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: Great Depression, they decided to take in a friend of John's, 267 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: another World War One veteran named Everett Applegate, who had 268 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: been living with his wife and teenage daughter at his 269 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: in laws. So with this new edition, there are now 270 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: two families, so two sets of parents and three kids 271 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: ranging from ages twelve to fifteen, living in a two 272 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: bedroom house. You know, they're all kind of crammed in there, 273 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: But it seems they're friendly. Seems like things are going well. 274 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: Then in September nineteen thirty six, eight at Applegate, who 275 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: is Everett's thirty six year old wife, started feeling very thick. 276 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: You can of this is gonna go. In fact, she 277 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: gets so sick that her doctor recommends she go to 278 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: the hospital. She's hospitalized for an entire week, and then 279 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: when she is released back home, she still is so weak. 280 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: She can only take milk. She's feeling very ill, very weak, 281 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: and finally on September, she woke up vomiting, quickly passed out. 282 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: Everett called the doctor, he called the police, but before 283 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: they could do anything, she was already dead. So alright, 284 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: official cause of death, heart trouble the doctor, I guess, okay, 285 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: makes sense a little bit. At first. The doctorhood treated 286 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: Ada for obesity for some time, but even with her 287 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: previous health problems, the police wanted to order an autopsy, 288 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: as you would imagine they would, considering our subjects background, 289 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: And you'd think that maybe ever it would be okay 290 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: with that too, wouldn't you. M M? He said no. 291 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: He says no, and they basically tell him, well, we're 292 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: gonna do it anyway, So it would be good for 293 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: you to say yes. Uh, the auto does go ahead, 294 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, and the taxicologist, our old friend, 295 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: Alexander Getler, since this is his jurisdiction this time, did 296 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: find arsenic in every organ of Ada's and he believed 297 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: that the arsnaic was specifically from a very common ninety 298 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: percent rat poison, specifically one called rough on rats. And 299 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: the obvious suspects were, of course, the husband Everett something 300 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: seemed a little fishy there, and then also be very 301 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: obvious co suspect, the applegates housemate Fanny Crichton, the famously 302 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: twice acquitted arsenic murderers. Now she goes by friend, she 303 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 1: goes by friend. Now you know, try, but you know 304 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: that they're they're going to infestic her involvement in this. 305 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: It's just too many coincidences in her life, of course. 306 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: So this is where the newspaper archives that Sarah mentioned 307 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: really become a fascinating resource for this story. The New 308 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: York Times, for example, covered it blow by blow, and 309 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: you can still find those articles online, so if you 310 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: want to check those out after listening to this podcast, 311 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: and the headline that might be a fun thing. They 312 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: all have headlines that are about fifty words long. Yeah, 313 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: if you look at some of these articles, though, Fran 314 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: presents a very unusual front right from the start. Yeah, 315 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: her testimony seemed too, very wildly. She admitted to killing 316 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: her brother years earlier using rat poison, not the Fouler 317 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: solution as they previously thought. She implicated Everett Applegate, also 318 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: claiming that AIDA's murder was actually his idea, but by 319 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: October she took it back, saying, according to an October 320 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: tenth article, that she quote wanted to make trouble for him, 321 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: but the murder was actually her doing. So she she says, 322 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: I accused him because I was trying to stir up trouble. 323 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: So why would she want to do that? What would 324 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: she have against this guy? And at first detectives suspected 325 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: that Everett and Fran had been having an affair together, 326 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: but soon it became clear that the real affair was 327 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: between Everett and the Crichton's fifteen year old daughter, Ruth, 328 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: So they started thinking, Okay, well did Everett murder his 329 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: wife to be with Ruth? And when the trial began 330 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: in January nineteen thirty six, Applegate did admit that he 331 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: had wanted to marry Ruth. He admitted to their relationship. 332 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: Other witnesses, though, including Ruth and John Crichton, came forward 333 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: with some pretty damning testimony. Ruth, for instance, spoke of 334 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: how Everett had once asked her if she'd like him 335 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: better single John, who just seems very like, not aware 336 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: of what's going on in his household twelve years earlier, 337 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: and at this point recounted however, it once spoke to 338 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: him about fixing Ruth up in her own apartment, you know, 339 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 1: would that be okay? And he's thinking, what, So Everett 340 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: seems like, you know, he's fessing up to this, this relationship, 341 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: but he is denying that he murdered his wife. He 342 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: flatly denies that. He instead testified that the murder was 343 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: France doing. Even though he had given her the money 344 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: to buy the rat poison. He said he thought she 345 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: just had a rodent problem she needed to deal with. 346 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: It was not to deal with his wife Ada. So 347 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: this is where Alexander Getler comes in again. The New 348 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: York City toxicologist he's looped into the crime and trial, 349 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: testifies that eleven grains of poison had been given to Aida. 350 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: He considers three grains of white arsenic lethal. So there's 351 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: no ambiguity here like there was the last time about 352 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: contaminated medicine or anything like that. It's clearly poisoning that 353 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: was done intentionally, and and another thing that really interested me. 354 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: I think about most cases, or most accounts of the 355 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: story you see, do focus only on the poison because 356 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: that's the main part. But there was also a handwriting 357 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: expert who was involved in the trial who testified that 358 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: these six anonymous letters that had come to the Long 359 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: Island home urging the Crichton's to quote get rid of 360 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: the Apple Gates had really been written by Mrs Crichton. Um. 361 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: It just reminds me so much of the earlier anonymous 362 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: tipster note and whether Fanny no Fran could have been 363 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: inspired by that in some way or what was going on. 364 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: But her testimony was really just as shady as it 365 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: had been before. The before the trial started, she claimed 366 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: she had bought the poison, but Everett had made her 367 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: do it, you know, it was under his direction. At 368 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: another point, according to an article from January, she claimed 369 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: that she even mixed it as drink but thought that 370 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: the white powder. Everett had asked her to add to 371 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: the milk. Was this other very similar looking medicine she 372 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: had mixed in with the drink before and it was okay. 373 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: A sample of dialogue from the next day, which was 374 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: Janu when Fran and the prosecutor went into more detail 375 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: about mixing up the poison milk is kind of interesting, 376 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: So we want to share that with you. The prosecutor said, 377 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: you stood by and watched this woman who was your 378 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: best friend die. Yes, you didn't tell the police that 379 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: you were being forced by applegate to do this. No, 380 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: you had heard a great deal about arsenic and its symptoms, 381 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: had you not? Yes? And that's my favorite question. It's 382 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: just I think they couldn't mention the earlier acquittals. But 383 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: the prosecutor clearly wanted to make the point if anybody 384 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: knew what arsenic did to people, it was this lady. 385 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: She'd had a lot of experience in it. Even assuming 386 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: that she was innocent in the earlier cases, she had 387 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: clearly still been there to hear all about what happens 388 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: with arsenic, so she would have recognized the signs even 389 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: if she didn't have anything to do with it exactly. 390 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: So there were other testimonies involved too. Of course. Applegate's uncle, 391 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: for instance, testified that when he visited the home, Fran 392 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: had complained about Aida and even said quote that she'd 393 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: like to drop her some rat poison. Uh, pretty pretty 394 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: straightforward point there. But the ultimate picture that emerged, at 395 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: least for the jury, was of Everett trying to free 396 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: himself from his wife so he could marry this fifteen 397 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: year old girl and Fran, who apparently knew about the 398 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: relationship and was eager to encourage it to free up 399 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: space in her house. I mean, you would have thought 400 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: you might free up too much space in your house, yeah, 401 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: because presumably the rest of the family would no longer 402 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: be living there. But on January both Everett and Fran 403 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: were sentenced to death. It had been a crazy trial 404 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: one day after recess. The crush to get seats had 405 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: actually resulted in several women being not to the ground, 406 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: but the execution itself was not a big event. Crichton's 407 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: lawyers even pulled an eleventh hour move with a letter 408 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: from Ruth claiming that Everett had told her he'd kill 409 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: his wife and then Mary Ruth, but made her swear 410 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: that she'd never tell or he'd get her in trouble 411 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: and she'd wind up in jail. So she claimed that's 412 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: why she told no one and didn't speak of it 413 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: at the trial. But no, dice didn't work, actually didn't 414 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: work at all. And the day of the executions, which 415 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: were to take place at things in prison another place 416 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: that just keeps popping up in podcast, uh, they were 417 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: set to take place July six. That day, fran Crichton's 418 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: lawyer asked her if she had lied during the case 419 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: about Everett's involvement in any way, please speak now, because 420 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: he was going to be electrocuted as well. She said 421 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: she hadn't lied. She didn't need to change your story, 422 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: and Appligate was electrocuted first. That night, um prison attendants 423 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: had formed a human screen. I mean, I know we 424 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: mentioned it wasn't this huge media event, but still it 425 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: was getting some coverage. They had formed a human screen 426 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: between the newspaperman and the electric chair to stop any 427 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: secret photographers from from snapping a shot because that was 428 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: something that had unfortunately happened a few years earlier at 429 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: the prison. They wanted to avoid that happening again. Crighting, 430 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: for her part, was so distraught and terrified she had 431 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: to actually be wheeled into the electric chair. She came 432 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: in with a rosary. She had converted to Catholicism that afternoon, 433 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: but right before the power was turned on, she threw 434 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: down her rosary beads. So a very memorable last image 435 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: for anybody who was there, I would imagine, but a 436 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: crazy story too. And de Blina and I were talking 437 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: about it earlier. Just how did it go on? Said Long? 438 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I feel like we wonder 439 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: that about all of these we do kinds of story. 440 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: Maybe it just seems so apparent after the fact that 441 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: there was something sinister going on in this household, especially 442 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: you think about John Crichton, What what was going on there, 443 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: you know, with his his first his parents dying, and 444 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: his brother in law, then his housemate. I don't know. 445 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess maybe when you're that close to 446 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: the situation and it's your family, you just you don't 447 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: see it, can't even process, you don't even want to 448 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: believe that, or can't even believe that that would be 449 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: the case anyway, though, I mean, a very unusual story 450 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: of poisoning and hopefully a good tale to share with 451 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: you guys for Halloween. We do have a little follow 452 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: up though, that's kind of bizarre. Um. In addition to 453 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: being an author, Bloom as a science journalist. And last 454 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: month there was a piece and wired about arsenic in rice. 455 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: Apparently in organic r snake has been found in two 456 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: hundred rice products at grocery stores across the the US. 457 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: And some of the possible reasons, besides, of course rice 458 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: being really good at absorbing arsenic quickly since it grows 459 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: in a wet environment, um, some of the reasons where 460 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: this inorganic arsenic could be coming from. One was possibly 461 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: left over in fields in Southern States where cotton had 462 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: been grown for a long time and treated with arsnake 463 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: based pesticides. And then another possible reason was run off 464 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: from chicken farms where feed sometimes contains a different form 465 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: of organic arsenic that can be converted to this more 466 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: dangerous form. Kind of a strange modern catch up to this, though, 467 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: don't worry to belie this. Make a scared face at 468 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: mere right now. I find this really troubling. And they 469 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: had it was two barrier grains and to boil your 470 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: your rice and a lot of water. You know, don't 471 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: do the Uncle Ben style where it soaks up all 472 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: the water, and who knows. I mean, we're probably this 473 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: is like our food lab episode. We're probably already ingesting 474 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: so many weird things that maybe a little arsenic in 475 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: the rice. I don't find that comforting, Sarah. Sorry, Well, 476 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: it will certainly be avoiding the chocolate pudding now, although 477 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: we well, I don't like chocolate that much, so I'm safe. 478 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: There's the rice I'm worried about. Good to now, Well, 479 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: now that we've alarmed everyone, Okay, well we will have 480 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: some some fun listener mail to to calm your nerves 481 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: a little bit. All right, so you ready for some 482 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: listener mail to Blena. I am. We've been talking about 483 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: how we got a lot of cool meal over the summer. 484 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: And one of these was a postcard from Nicole and 485 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: her daughter Rebecca. And it's a postcard of us the 486 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: our old iceman friend, except he is not an iceman 487 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: in the picture. He's a living guy wearing his clothes, 488 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: and then they have um. It's an illustration, of course, 489 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: with the photographic counterpart of his clothes in their deteriorated state, 490 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: including his rope, sandals and his hat and um. Nicole 491 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: wrote to say that she visited the museum we mentioned 492 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: during that episode for two hours, and she said that 493 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: I can assure you let's he looks like this, pointing 494 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: to the little drawing on the back side of the 495 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: postcard of the real shriveled iceman photo and not like 496 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: the copyrightedge hattie on the other side. Obviously, you're not 497 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: the only ones who love him, though, considering the proud 498 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: photo of Brad Pitts utsie tattoo prominently displayed at the 499 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: Museum of Duenna and I had not realized we did 500 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: not know. We googled that we did what we needed 501 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: to have some proof ourselves of this, and neither did 502 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: Nicole Apparently she who knew. She also said there were 503 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: cases and cases of his quote wallet letter. We even 504 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: saw his fungus. The bare hat was rather jaunty, but 505 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: it's still hard to love a man with flease. We 506 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: love your podcast, so this was an adorable postcard and 507 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: um kind of a funny one too. Is hard to 508 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: love a man with flease? True enough, we have another 509 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: very cool card here from listener Kate in New York. 510 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: She says, Hello, I just wanted to write and say 511 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: how much I love your show. I work at a 512 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: letter Press shop in Brooklyn and listen to your podcast 513 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: every week and catch up on my listening while printing 514 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: on huge nineteenth century presses. Even made the card I'm 515 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: sending to you, which is we should take a picture 516 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: or something and post it on face. We could. It's 517 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: a Manhattan. Yeah, it's a beautiful card. And she goes 518 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: on to say your podcast has even inspired my best 519 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: friend and I to start our own podcast, ABC Gotham. 520 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: It's a New York City history podcast with one topic 521 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: for every letter of the alphabet. Very fun of like, 522 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: thanks Kate for sending that in. It's always great to 523 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 1: hear two from people who have started their own blog 524 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: or podcast. I think that's so cool. I would have 525 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: no idea how to do that. So cheers to you 526 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: guys for for starting your own show. Yeah, we get 527 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: a lot of help, so we're always impressed by people 528 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: who do this on their own. If you have any 529 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: similar ventures that you're involved in, or maybe you just 530 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: have some ideas that you want to send in for 531 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: us to cover. Maybe you have your own sort of 532 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: Etsy story that you want to share with Sarah because 533 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: you know it's her historical boyfriend and she's always interested 534 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: in a two stories, you can write to us where 535 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. You can also 536 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: look us up on Twitter or we are on Facebook. 537 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: I wish I had a historical boyfriend who had like 538 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: some living pictures, you know, not just like the mommifide remains. 539 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, there's lots of options out there, 540 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: so yeah, if you have any lea options open and 541 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: you can date around a little bit. Yea. If you 542 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: have any ideas there, email us and we do have 543 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: back going back to our more dismal poison subject, we 544 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: do have a lot of articles on forensic science, which 545 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: I am endlessly fascinated by. And one of the reasons 546 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: why this story interests me is because it, really, like 547 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: I said earlier, is kind of at the cusp of 548 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: that becoming an important part of um of trials and detection. 549 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: So if you want to look at any of that, 550 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: check out our science section on our homepage at www. 551 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: Dot how stuff works dot com for more on this 552 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is that how stuff works 553 00:33:51,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: dot Com named tu to