Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am
Speaker 1: your host, Ramsey's job. He is Ramsy's Joh, I am.
Speaker 1: I'm actually very certain of that. By the way, I
Speaker 1: know it sounds like I was thinking about it. I'm
Speaker 1: sure he's Ramsy's Joh. I am still q Ward.
Speaker 2: Unless somebody offers me a ridiculous amount of money. I
Speaker 2: think I'm going to remain you Ward. And you know
Speaker 2: you tuned inna Cific Cipher on purpose, I.
Speaker 1: Hope, Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like starting off
Speaker 1: a little bit of humor because we're going to be
Speaker 1: talking about a couple of steps back that we've had
Speaker 1: to take, uh and those will become very clear if
Speaker 1: you haven't been, you know, plugged into the media or
Speaker 1: the new cycle of the way that we have, so
Speaker 1: stay tuned. We're going to be discussing an incident in
Speaker 1: Mississippi of police brutality and overreach and really trying to
Speaker 1: understand the relationship that at least have with the community,
Speaker 1: in particular black people, and why it's so supportive. So
Speaker 1: we're going to tell you a story some folks who
Speaker 1: have authority lined authority from a good amount of this country,
Speaker 1: and what can happen when we turn these type of
Speaker 1: people loose if they are not vetted, and on and
Speaker 1: on and on. We also were talking about the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has been tripping lately and there is no
Speaker 1: more affirmative action. A lot of people might think affirmative
Speaker 1: action was unfair. It was it allowed people to access
Speaker 1: places and positions that they weren't qualified for, and it's
Speaker 1: really not true. So we're going to explain what it
Speaker 1: was and what we've lost and how we lost it,
Speaker 1: and hopefully how we can remain vigilant and push back.
Speaker 1: And then, of course we have lots of other things
Speaker 1: to talk about on today's show, but first and inform
Speaker 1: most like we always do it, this time it's time
Speaker 1: for some Ebony Excellence. How does that sound to you? Q?
Speaker 2: Shall we shall?
Speaker 1: So? Today's Any Excellence is sponsored by Major Threads for
Speaker 1: the finest in men's sports. Were Checkmajor threads dot com.
Speaker 1: Today we're talking about Bust Rhymes. Yes Any Excellence For
Speaker 1: those that saw the recent Beet Awards, he has finally
Speaker 1: gotten credit for his contributions, like significant credit for his
Speaker 1: contributions to hip hop and it's well deserved. And I
Speaker 1: think that how he chose to receive that award certainly
Speaker 1: is is above and beyond what I should our typical
Speaker 1: any excellence for so I'll lead. Buster Rhymes has been
Speaker 1: honored for a Lifetime Achievement Award a betweenty twenty three
Speaker 1: b ET Awards. He took the opportunity to give in part,
Speaker 1: some og wisdom on the rap game during and his
Speaker 1: arousing acceptance speech, taking the stage to rapture his applause
Speaker 1: and a standing ovation inside the Los Angeles Microsoft Theater
Speaker 1: on Sunday night. The fifty one year old rapped legend
Speaker 1: reflected on his trailblazing career while calling for more unity
Speaker 1: and positivity and hip hop must His powerful speech began
Speaker 1: on an emotional note as it became overwhelmed with the
Speaker 1: love and adoration from inside the room. I'm aware it
Speaker 1: on my sleeve. I do want to cry, he said,
Speaker 1: before removing his sunglasses and wiping the tears from his eyes,
Speaker 1: prompting more cheers of support from the audience. I believe
Speaker 1: this comes from bet dot com. And on top of that,
Speaker 1: the way that this man articulated his journey the way
Speaker 1: that he shouted out the people that supported him, the
Speaker 1: way that he acknowledged how his children motivated him and
Speaker 1: helped frame kind of the plight for not just him,
Speaker 1: but a lot of black men and men, you know,
Speaker 1: all men I believe, have a simple in light, especially
Speaker 1: if they have children, just remarkable. If you haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: please check it out.
Speaker 2: Check it out.
Speaker 1: All right, So we're going to talk about the police.
Speaker 1: We talk about the police a lot on this show.
Speaker 1: For long time listeners, you know this already, but the
Speaker 1: show continues to grow, so we are always ending up
Speaker 1: with new listeners around the country, and we appreciate everyone.
Speaker 1: Today we're going to spend a moment to talk about
Speaker 1: policing again. I famously am very critical of the way
Speaker 1: policing is done in this country. That is not to
Speaker 1: say that I'm critical of police officers. I believe that
Speaker 1: the system that uphold policing in this country have gaping
Speaker 1: holes that attract violent individuals bullies, yes, et cetera, and
Speaker 1: obviously some normal, well meaning, well intentioned folks as well.
Speaker 1: The environment once a police officer is hired allows police
Speaker 1: to hold themselves to a different standard than they would
Speaker 1: hold the general public, that blue wall of silence, you know,
Speaker 1: people trying to rewrite stories lying. You know, these people uphold,
Speaker 1: they take an oath to uphold the law, and then
Speaker 1: they're caught lying constantly, constantly, even good officers are forced
Speaker 1: by that brotherhood quote unquote and that wall of silence
Speaker 1: to either lie or commit lizab omission to cover up
Speaker 1: for police misconduct. It happens. This is not me exaggerating
Speaker 1: at all. So not just the hiring practices, but the culture,
Speaker 1: and then all of this being constantly supported blindly by
Speaker 1: the general public. As though the general public doesn't deserve
Speaker 1: better and better and even better still versions of policing
Speaker 1: if we're back paying for it. We deserve better and
Speaker 1: better politicians, We deserve better and better judges. We just
Speaker 1: are better and better police officers, firefighters and so forth.
Speaker 2: These these.
Speaker 1: These institutions are not subject to the influence of capitalism.
Speaker 1: Capitalism were better or worse or one of its benefits,
Speaker 1: I should say, it really does inspire innovation. Have to
Speaker 1: be fair, capitalism and innovation are kind of hand in
Speaker 1: hand at the expense of human beings. I believe that's
Speaker 1: where I would draw the line.
Speaker 2: But I mean part of the problem. Even with the innovation,
Speaker 2: it tends to be more based on things that we want.
Speaker 1: Not what we need, not what we need. Sure, sure,
Speaker 1: but the fact is is that capitalism inspires innovation, and
Speaker 1: so in every part of our life, our phones, the
Speaker 1: type of air conditioner we buy, we don't expect it
Speaker 1: to be the same air conditioner that we had that
Speaker 1: was on the market twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: Right by a.
Speaker 1: Refrigerator, by anything, it doesn't matter. We expect there to
Speaker 1: be growth. But with policing, because it's not subject to
Speaker 1: the forces of capitalism, there's no competition for policing. It's
Speaker 1: not like there's police and then there's like same with
Speaker 1: our education exactly, you understand. So these these these institutions
Speaker 1: that lie beyond the scope and beyond the influence of capitalism,
Speaker 1: people are surprisingly just okay with how things are, and
Speaker 1: for policing in particular. Now there's been this alignment of
Speaker 1: policing with like deeply patriotic, deeply conservative people in this
Speaker 1: country along the lines of support. The troops at least
Speaker 1: are now like first responders, and now that includes firemen.
Speaker 1: So you know that flag with the blue line, it's
Speaker 1: like a black and white flag, and then there's the
Speaker 1: blue line. There's a version of that where it's a
Speaker 1: black and white flag and a red line meant to
Speaker 1: support firefighters, and the green line meant to support border
Speaker 1: patrol people and so forth and so on. In other words,
Speaker 1: the flag that's supposed to exist, you know, in these
Speaker 1: people's minds as a way of supporting troops and armed servicemen.
Speaker 1: The flag belongs to everybody, by the way, but these
Speaker 1: folks mind now they've made versions of the flag and
Speaker 1: kind of fledge allegiance to these folks blindly, and they
Speaker 1: ignore their capacity to innovate and grow and be better. Right,
Speaker 1: this is our demand here. I do want to say this.
Speaker 1: For folks who listened for the past few years to
Speaker 1: this show. You understand that I've mentioned some names on
Speaker 1: this show. I only use their first names because I
Speaker 1: want to protect them. But Officer Kevin, Suzanne Daniel. People
Speaker 1: in my community here, humans who happen to be officers,
Speaker 1: great humans. I believe them to be good people. That
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're not as susceptible to the forces
Speaker 1: and the influences of police culture. But on the front end,
Speaker 1: insofar as I can tell based on what I know
Speaker 1: of them good people. Then there's obviously officers where a
Speaker 1: lot of that nonsense goes to their head and they
Speaker 1: feel like they exist above the level of people, like
Speaker 1: they're a judge, jury executioner. That's what we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about in today's story. And I want you to
Speaker 1: ask yourself why this is happening, why this particular story happened,
Speaker 1: and why a good chunk of people in this country
Speaker 1: don't feel like it's necessary to for us to question
Speaker 1: police misconduct.
Speaker 2: So not all of that blind support, I imagine more
Speaker 2: than you'd imagine, more than you factor of that support
Speaker 2: is not based on racism. A lot of people have
Speaker 2: been indoctrinated to believe or police does mean more safe, sure, yeah.
Speaker 2: Or police does mean less crime, or police does mean
Speaker 2: I'm more protected. And I heard someone recently, somebody I know,
Speaker 2: somebody that I care about, talking to their children about
Speaker 2: why a particular part of the country or a particular
Speaker 2: part of town was more dangerous. And it was triggering
Speaker 2: to hear you say it's because that part of that
Speaker 2: part of town or that part of something. I can't
Speaker 2: remember the exact words, but to be being not policed,
Speaker 2: heavenly like, Oh, this is somebody that I know and
Speaker 2: to his bones is not racist. Yeah, does not see
Speaker 2: black and criminal, but he does think police means safer. Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 2: police means more law abiding. Police means less crime will
Speaker 2: happen if there are more police, give them more money,
Speaker 2: and we train them better. And I was just like Wow,
Speaker 2: so many people are that misinformed, and they believe that
Speaker 2: to their core, they don't think that there's anything wrong
Speaker 2: with the way that they feel and the way that
Speaker 2: they see that.
Speaker 1: So if you listening right now, if you feel that way,
Speaker 1: or if you know someone who feels that way, more
Speaker 1: police equals more safety. I want you to imagine the
Speaker 1: most crime free neighborhood that you can possibly imagine. And
Speaker 1: what you where your mind will probably go is a
Speaker 1: neighborhood where there's tons of mansions and everybody. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, because there's not police on every corner. There.
Speaker 1: Go to Compton, there's police everywhere, right, go to the
Speaker 1: worst part of any whatever, there's police everywhere. So police
Speaker 1: presence doesn't Police presence doesn't necessarily mean less crime. Talib
Speaker 1: Quali at a bar in one of his songs. I
Speaker 1: can't remember right now, but I loved it. He says,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna paraphrase because he used some words that I
Speaker 1: can't use on the radio. But he says, brothers don't
Speaker 1: sell drugs because they like to see blacks smoke. Brothers
Speaker 1: sell drugs because they broke right, And I think that
Speaker 1: sums it up entirely. Wealth, more often than not, will
Speaker 1: shape activities, Certainly, criminal activities in a different part of town.
Speaker 1: And more police doesn't change that. If you don't have
Speaker 1: any money, you got a family feed, You're going to
Speaker 1: do whatever it takes to feed a family. There's many
Speaker 1: people in jail because they was like, I was trying
Speaker 1: to feed my family, not because even.
Speaker 2: You feed yourself. Sure, even if you don't have a family,
Speaker 2: if you're starving. I heard somebody say, once upon a time,
Speaker 2: you have food and water and I have guns and bullets,
Speaker 2: then I have food and water. That's not a criminal thing.
Speaker 2: That is a kind of survival of the fittest thing.
Speaker 2: I'm stronger and more powerful or not. If I just
Speaker 2: want it more than you have it and I don't
Speaker 2: have it. There are people who have a by any
Speaker 2: means necessary approach to their own survival. That's a human
Speaker 2: primal response to being.
Speaker 1: Alive, any any creature with a nervous system, not just
Speaker 1: a human, anything that can ensure its own service. We're
Speaker 1: hardwired biologically to do that. I want to share something
Speaker 1: else too. So a good number of people that are
Speaker 1: in jails, it's not just black people. A lot of
Speaker 1: these people are poor. A lot of these people that
Speaker 1: are arrested in the criminal justice system, a lot of
Speaker 1: them are poor and homeless. And the crazy thing is,
Speaker 1: I put a memea the other day and it says,
Speaker 1: what's the difference between a prisoner of war and a
Speaker 1: homeless person? The answer is, under the Geneva Convention, a
Speaker 1: prisoner of war is entitled to food, shelter, and medical care.
Speaker 1: This person is not. Medical care is critical because a
Speaker 1: lot of homeless people are not medicated or self medicating,
Speaker 1: on and on and on. When you criminalize the drugs
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. So there's this runaway effect that
Speaker 1: is not often talked about in circles like that, leading
Speaker 1: to this story that we're talking about. Now. Forgive me
Speaker 1: for building a framework so thoroughly, but it's important because
Speaker 1: we're going to share basically a story about police violence.
Speaker 1: And I want you to have the proper framework to
Speaker 1: receive it. I'm going to read from CBS News. Well,
Speaker 1: first I told you a bit about the story. Basically,
Speaker 1: police rushed into a house, beat up a bunch of people,
Speaker 1: did some really gross and vile things to them, and
Speaker 1: they were subsequently arrested. So that's where this reading comes from, right,
Speaker 1: CBS News. All five Mississippi deputy sheriffs who responded to
Speaker 1: an incident in which two black men accused the deputies
Speaker 1: of beating and sexually assaulting them before shooting one of
Speaker 1: them in the mouth have been fired or resigned, authorities
Speaker 1: announced tuesday. Now, real quick, I want to make sure
Speaker 1: that when I say shooting in the mouth, I want
Speaker 1: you to know that this wasn't a shooting from across
Speaker 1: the room because the officer was quote unquote scared and
Speaker 1: the bullet happened to hit him in the mouth. Oh no,
Speaker 1: they put the gun into the guy's mouth and then
Speaker 1: shot like almost like an execution style. Okay, police did this, Okay,
Speaker 1: all right. The announcement comes months after Michael Corey Jenkins
Speaker 1: and his friend Eddie Terrell Parker said deputies from the
Speaker 1: rankin Sheriff's County department burst into a home without a warrant.
Speaker 1: The men said deputies beat them, assaulted them with a
Speaker 1: sex toy, and shocked them repeatedly with tasers in a
Speaker 1: roughly ninety minute period. During the January twenty fourth episode,
Speaker 1: Jenkins and Parker said. Jenkins said one of the deputies
Speaker 1: shoved a gun in his mouth and then fired the weapon,
Speaker 1: leaving him with serious injuries to his face, tongue, and jaw.
Speaker 1: The Justice Department opened a civil rights investigation into the
Speaker 1: Rankin County Sheriff's department after the episode. Rankin County Sheriff
Speaker 1: Brian Bailey announced Tuesday the deputies involved in the episode
Speaker 1: had been fired and some had already resigned. Bailey's announcement
Speaker 1: also follows an Associated Press investigation that found several deputies
Speaker 1: who were involved in the episode were also linked to
Speaker 1: at least four violent encounters with black men since twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: They left too dead and another with lasting injuries. Deputies
Speaker 1: who had been accepted to the Sheriff's office Special Response Team,
Speaker 1: a tactical unit whose members received advanced training advanced training,
Speaker 1: were involved in each of the foreign counters. Deputies said
Speaker 1: the raid was prompted by a report of drug activity
Speaker 1: at the home. At least in court records obtained by
Speaker 1: the ape by the Associated Press revealed the identities of
Speaker 1: two deputies at the Jenkins raid, Hunter Elward and Christian Deadman.
Speaker 1: Wasn't immediately clear whether any of the deputies had attorneys
Speaker 1: who could comment on their behalf. Okay, so I want
Speaker 1: to stop right here. Is a little bit more, but
Speaker 1: I want to stop right here. So these officers tazed.
Speaker 1: They first off, they didn't have any videos, and all
Speaker 1: their video cameras that they turn off their body can
Speaker 1: head to me, that suggests premeditated. They knew that's what
Speaker 1: they were going to do and felt like they could
Speaker 1: get away with it because they have the support of
Speaker 1: the people.
Speaker 2: And there's no way that all four or all five
Speaker 2: bodycams malfunction that day simultaneously.
Speaker 1: They turned them off off. Now here's the thing. What
Speaker 1: corroborated the story of the men who filed suit. We're
Speaker 1: going to get to that in a second. What corroborated
Speaker 1: that story is the tasers keep a record of how
Speaker 1: many times they're deployed, and in that ninety minute period,
Speaker 1: the tasers were deployed dozens of time on these guys obviously,
Speaker 1: like they said, they were beaten, abused with a sex toy.
Speaker 1: One of them was shot in the mouth, you know,
Speaker 1: on and on, and you have to start thinking what
Speaker 1: set of circumstances makes police feel like they can get
Speaker 1: away with them? And the short answer of it, and
Speaker 1: the short is not as thorough as I'd like it
Speaker 1: to be, but the short answer of it is that
Speaker 1: the police are using you and your fear to prop
Speaker 1: themselves up higher, to get more money, and to abuse
Speaker 1: that power, particularly when it comes to black people, round people,
Speaker 1: or people. And the hiring practices and the blind support
Speaker 1: and the culture that exists in police departments across this
Speaker 1: country fosters this toxic environment. And again, they're not subjected
Speaker 1: to the forces of capitalism. They don't need to innovate.
Speaker 1: They can keep singing the same song and dance. They
Speaker 1: need better training, they need better this than that and
Speaker 1: the other, and it doesn't work. It's been this way
Speaker 1: for fifty years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, our police departments have a
Speaker 2: monopoly on law enforcement. There is no competitor. They don't
Speaker 2: have to be good at their jobs to not only
Speaker 2: be paid, but rewarded right and get an annual pay bump.
Speaker 2: There you go, and even when all the evidence shows
Speaker 2: we'd all be better off, we spent the money elsewhere.
Speaker 1: To actually prevent the necessity of crime that actually has
Speaker 1: measurable outcomes. I said it before, I'll say it again.
Speaker 2: Opening potative and quantitative outcomes exactly.
Speaker 1: But I want to make sure that I say this,
Speaker 1: and this is something you can look up yourself. Opening
Speaker 1: a daycare and making it free to a community of
Speaker 1: poor people shapes criminal outcomes, crime statistical outcomes better than
Speaker 1: hiring new police officers. It's fact, it's documented. It's well documented.
Speaker 1: If people really wanted to make an impact on crime rates,
Speaker 1: you would think, well, let's just open more daycares. But again,
Speaker 1: they use fear. Your fear, if you're hearing my voice,
Speaker 1: they're using your fear to be able to not only
Speaker 1: do things like this, but keep doing things like this.
Speaker 1: And people get the worst end of it is us.
Speaker 1: That's not to say that other communities don't have to
Speaker 1: deal with that too, but you know, we get the
Speaker 1: worst of it, and we have a show on a
Speaker 1: microphone and we're talking about it. I want to finish
Speaker 1: reading this in a phone interview Tuesday, Jason darre, an
Speaker 1: attorney representing the Ranking County Sheriff's department, said the department
Speaker 1: knows of five deputies who conducted the Jenkins raid. Jenkins
Speaker 1: and his attorney have said six deputies were at the home,
Speaker 1: all five identified by the department, where I either resigned
Speaker 1: or fired. There is nobody camera footage of the episode.
Speaker 1: Records obtained by the AP show that tasers used by
Speaker 1: the deputies were turned on, turned off, or used dozens
Speaker 1: of times during a roughly sixty five minute period before
Speaker 1: Jenkins's was shot. Jenkins and Parker have also filed a
Speaker 1: federal civil rights lawsuit seeking four hundred million dollars in damages.
Speaker 1: And again that's from CBS News. You're welcome to go
Speaker 1: and check this out and read a little bit more
Speaker 1: about it, but I need you to follow me here.
Speaker 1: And this is part of the reason why we had
Speaker 1: to develop your mind so that you could receive this story. Now,
Speaker 1: follow this suspected drug raid.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are like, oh, well, then they
Speaker 1: were suspected drug dealers. They probably were selling drugs, right,
Speaker 1: that's I mean, this is how we are. I don't
Speaker 1: love it either, but the truth is I've been a
Speaker 1: victim of that too. I've been there. We we yes.
Speaker 2: Shout out to the drug dog that smelled drugs in
Speaker 2: my new car, yeah in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: For those that don't know the story, check out a
Speaker 1: couple of older episodes. Q and I have a great
Speaker 1: story getting pulled over in Mississippi in a new car
Speaker 1: and the police for no reason. By the way, the
Speaker 1: police wanted to make a big deal out of it,
Speaker 1: so they snatched us out of the car, got the dogs,
Speaker 1: and it's this whole story. You'd love it anyway. I
Speaker 1: want you to imagine what it would be like to
Speaker 1: be in a position in your life where, okay, maybe
Speaker 1: life didn't come together for me the way that I wanted.
Speaker 1: Most folks would probably say that most people, you know,
Speaker 1: when you were little, you probably wanted to go to
Speaker 1: the NBA, or be an astronaut, a movie star, or
Speaker 1: a hundred different things, and most of those things probably
Speaker 1: didn't happen. Right, It's just the way the world is.
Speaker 1: That's fine, okay, But just like you, Nobody as a
Speaker 1: child says, you know what, when I grow up, I
Speaker 1: want to be criminal. Nobody says I want to be
Speaker 1: a drug dealer. You know it's not something to aspire to.
Speaker 1: I want to live in fear that someone's going to
Speaker 1: rob me and you have to look over my shoulder
Speaker 1: all that. Nobody says that, Okay, but let's say whatever
Speaker 1: circumstances don't come together the way that you want. You're ambitious,
Speaker 1: you have a family to take care, and you end
Speaker 1: up in that situation. So giving the conservative folks who
Speaker 1: conserved the minded the benefit of the doubt, want you
Speaker 1: to put yourself in that position. Okay, So here's where
Speaker 1: I am. I gotta steal drugs, right, the police come
Speaker 1: into your house and they arrest you. That's fair. I
Speaker 1: was doing this. I took this risk, I took this chance.
Speaker 1: I knew this could happen, and that's fair.
Speaker 2: But imagine even in that case, though, there should be
Speaker 2: a warrant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, sure, that's where I'm going. Now, imagine the
Speaker 1: police kicking the door, torture you for ninety minutes, and
Speaker 1: then shoot you in the mouth like an execution, and
Speaker 1: then go on with their lives. Is that not a
Speaker 1: gross overreach of the police. And I feel like that
Speaker 1: is a question that can best be answered if you
Speaker 1: put yourself in that situation. Do me, that favor