Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening un podcast, you
Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for
Speaker 1: every hunt, First Light, go farther, stay longer. All right, everybody,
Speaker 1: we're here at Doug's farm as promised. If you're a
Speaker 1: very astute listener and you listen real careful, you heard
Speaker 1: a long time ago when we had Yeah Yang on
Speaker 1: to talk about Mong culture. Did you get the shirt
Speaker 1: made Mong dudes or trouble it's in progress? Okay, Yeah
Speaker 1: Yang was on top, and I, uh, I thought I
Speaker 1: was given Yeah the the gift of all gifts by
Speaker 1: inviting him. I didn't tell Doug and Doug Doug didn't
Speaker 1: know until he listened to the show that I invited
Speaker 1: Yah and his daughter Michaela to come for Youth Turkey
Speaker 1: Season at Doug's place. Did you feel insulted when I
Speaker 1: did that? Or not insulted? Out of the loop, No,
Speaker 1: it was. It was actually pretty funny because I started
Speaker 1: getting text messages from friends who listened to the podcasts
Speaker 1: podcasts sooner than I did saying, so, I guess you're
Speaker 1: gonna have some extra turkey hunters next year. And what
Speaker 1: am I talking about? What are you talking about? And
Speaker 1: then I get a text from you, going, hey, have
Speaker 1: you listened to the podcast? Yeah? I don't know. Well
Speaker 1: I kind of invited a guy. I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's nice that you. I was actually flattered that you
Speaker 1: felt comfortable enough to invite somebody, especially for that season.
Speaker 1: And uh, and it was fine. Now, but I wasn't
Speaker 1: insulted by it at all. You're not annoyed, No, he
Speaker 1: said to me once. Um I was about of course,
Speaker 1: it was about my farming, and because we were doing something,
Speaker 1: we were filming or something, and I was like, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: by the way, I got a couple of friends coming in.
Speaker 1: You hell, you invite whoever the hell you want. It's
Speaker 1: your damn farm, So what sort of that extension? And no,
Speaker 1: I was. I was happy that you did it. It
Speaker 1: was cool. And here we are Youth Turkey. Another Youth
Speaker 1: Turkey season coming gone skunked skunked. Well. Last year, on
Speaker 1: the first day of Youth Turkey Season, we called in
Speaker 1: like without really trying that hard, six long beards, six
Speaker 1: rope draggers, two youth hunters tagged out by two o'clock
Speaker 1: in the or three o'clock in the after nothing left
Speaker 1: to do but burn ditch the spring and burn ditch
Speaker 1: and dry do my favorite activity, which is drive around
Speaker 1: with dog and have him tell uh stories of interactions
Speaker 1: with people. But how many hours did your daughter spending
Speaker 1: the Turkey blind here? I want to say it's about
Speaker 1: eighteen or nineteen hours in two days. In two days, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was nine for sure the first day and it
Speaker 1: was about the exact same. The difference in well they
Speaker 1: were burning ditch and T shirts last year, it's snowed
Speaker 1: last night this year. Yeah, the birds are just not
Speaker 1: fired up. But I have photographic evidence of there are
Speaker 1: being plenty of birds around and you being in the
Speaker 1: same area where the birds were, but just not at
Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, so I'll I'll detail this out. Um,
Speaker 1: We me and my older boy go out for the
Speaker 1: daybreak thing. We go out to a blind at a
Speaker 1: place called the Navel where or the other day we
Speaker 1: logged the first Like every I got a backup. If
Speaker 1: you imagine the Earth as a beach ball, dugs of
Speaker 1: all the whole planet, the place where you would blow
Speaker 1: air into that beach ball is located on Doug's farm. Huh.
Speaker 1: Or if the Earth was in its in its infancy,
Speaker 1: being formed inside its mother's womb, this is on Doug's farm.
Speaker 1: That's like the Earth is a baby on Doug's farmers
Speaker 1: where the Umbilicus attaches. That's why it's called the navel.
Speaker 1: I never thought about it like that. Everything everything passes
Speaker 1: through the name everything passes through the navel. I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there with my boy there day we're like sitting there
Speaker 1: looking at a field in hardwoods, and here comes running by.
Speaker 1: Running by is a river otter, like through Doug's field
Speaker 1: as a river otter. He was drawn by some mysterious
Speaker 1: magnetism to run through the navel. Sitting there last night,
Speaker 1: here comes two dogs. Those dogs nuts right through the
Speaker 1: navel there. They are a mystery to me. Where if
Speaker 1: you hit a deer with a bow and you track it,
Speaker 1: it will pass through the navel. It's so you can
Speaker 1: save yourself a lot of time. Just go to the
Speaker 1: navel and pick up the blood trail there. That's like
Speaker 1: everything passes through there. It's the it's the beginning of
Speaker 1: the Earth. It's where when they breathe life into the earth.
Speaker 1: That's where they breathed it. Didn't you see a mink
Speaker 1: in that same area? I saw at the navel trying
Speaker 1: to drag a squirrel out of a hole in the tree.
Speaker 1: I mean, that wasn't really the navel, but it was
Speaker 1: within a hundred yards of the navel, So yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: that's I'm my little ways from the navel, but not
Speaker 1: far from the navel, just up the hill from it.
Speaker 1: So in the belly area, you want to hear some screaming,
Speaker 1: But what was weird. It was the mink screaming. You know,
Speaker 1: they got a very shrill. The mink was trying to
Speaker 1: fight his way into a squirrel hole, and there was
Speaker 1: a squirrel trying to defend its territory, and the mink
Speaker 1: was freaking out. Yeah. Anyhow, so me and my older
Speaker 1: boy go out to the navel in the morning and
Speaker 1: there's a bird roosted behind us. And my little boy
Speaker 1: was like adamant that we come get him at breakfast,
Speaker 1: Come get him at breakfast. So we sit there till
Speaker 1: seven thirty and I'm thinking he's gonna be up, and
Speaker 1: dog's gonna want to go out with my daughter and
Speaker 1: and I'm better go get Matthew. So we leave and
Speaker 1: Dog's got a camera at the navel. We leave, and
Speaker 1: at nine, this long beard shows up at the navel
Speaker 1: on Dog's camera, so Doug gets the camera. He hits
Speaker 1: the photographs every twelve hours. Every twelve hours. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: we go back out and we call before going to
Speaker 1: the navel. We called down into the navel and he returns.
Speaker 1: He gobbles and return million times. We work them nothing.
Speaker 1: Eventually shuts up moves off, so we sneak into the
Speaker 1: blind at the navel set up. Pretty soon, Matthew is
Speaker 1: very concerned about how he needs to go have lunch
Speaker 1: with Duck's daughter eleanor and one and you can tell
Speaker 1: you just one. He thinks that there's people back here
Speaker 1: playing having opening like Easter presence. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: he's just committed that he's got to get back. He's
Speaker 1: got to get back. So I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: So we leave and then at noon we leave, like
Speaker 1: at noon, that long beard standing as the navel. Me
Speaker 1: and Jimmy go back out, circle around and call an area,
Speaker 1: just hammering another thousand times from the navel, working as
Speaker 1: close we can, can't budge him and he eventure his
Speaker 1: drifts off. Wait. It really was maddening. And then over
Speaker 1: here behind the barn, up on that point up there
Speaker 1: where you guys started out, uh or you went up
Speaker 1: there one other time and in the same thing you
Speaker 1: left there, and later that day there were turkeys there.
Speaker 1: Our CEO, Dan Chumbler, met your ceo. He's going to
Speaker 1: turkey hunt up friend of mine's place the spring. And
Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna tell you something that you won't do.
Speaker 1: But if you did it, you will kill a turkey.
Speaker 1: But no one does it, and everyone knows it's true,
Speaker 1: but no one can bring themselves to do it. I said,
Speaker 1: I will show you two spots where if you lean
Speaker 1: against a tree and stay there for the three days
Speaker 1: that you'll be hunting, you will kill a rope dragger.
Speaker 1: But you won't be able to do it because there'll
Speaker 1: be some birds you gotta go after and you'll leave
Speaker 1: and then you won't be there when it comes. But
Speaker 1: there's a loan. There's you'll like this dog alone oak
Speaker 1: out in the middle of a field, and every day
Speaker 1: multiple gobblers have to go by that oak. I don't
Speaker 1: know why. And there's another place which is like a
Speaker 1: pass a passageway between two paradisees, and every day, multiple times,
Speaker 1: long beards walk through there. But no one could, No
Speaker 1: one will just sit there. I can't do it. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: because I'm sitting there. And yesterday afternoon, uh, when Rosie
Speaker 1: and I went and Matthew went with us and she
Speaker 1: goes and Doug. I don't want to just go sit
Speaker 1: in a blind. I want to walk and call. And
Speaker 1: it's like she's got the gene nine years old, eight
Speaker 1: years old, sitting for socks. She likes to running gun. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a eight years old right, alright? Seated next? We
Speaker 1: didn't we didn't Probably Pat, Pat Durkin's here, thank you.
Speaker 1: You know what's always confused? Before we turn the machine on.
Speaker 1: You were saying something that caught my attention. Where Pat
Speaker 1: Dirk and Doug durn there's room for confusion there. But
Speaker 1: you said you just found a book, a deer hunting
Speaker 1: book written by someone named Doug Durkin. Yeah. Someone, some
Speaker 1: guy follows me Instagram sent me. Uh um, just a
Speaker 1: little note saying are you are you really had that
Speaker 1: Douglas Durkin. Maybe dogs related to him. There's so many
Speaker 1: derivatives of Durkin, and there's Dirk again like the g
Speaker 1: Then there's we always thought me there's something that Durkin
Speaker 1: and Duran but during German, right right, So it's not
Speaker 1: your German. I'm German. I'm half German. Well, when I
Speaker 1: was saying all that bad stuff by you guys, I though,
Speaker 1: so I Doug, I don't love you. Read much about
Speaker 1: late thirties before? Why people left outline found that book.
Speaker 1: Some hasn't come yet. I'm looking forward to reading it.
Speaker 1: Oh he's sending you the book. No, I looked it
Speaker 1: up on Amazon phone. Yeah, Doug Durkin. It's like if
Speaker 1: you and Doug had a baby and that baby growth
Speaker 1: to write a book about hunting, maybe maybe we should
Speaker 1: update it and you and I can and yeah it
Speaker 1: should be with a forward by Doug DRN and Pat
Speaker 1: dirt Sex. Seated next to Pat Durkin is my son.
Speaker 1: James is just gonna join us for a minute here now, Jimmy,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen. I told you no smart ass comments.
Speaker 1: You gotta shine because here's the thing that you need
Speaker 1: to be. I've told you this before. Remember how I
Speaker 1: don't like you, like we don't want you on social
Speaker 1: media because you might screw up and it comes back
Speaker 1: to haunt you later. Right, You've told me that many times.
Speaker 1: So keeping in mind that you're now possibly you're making
Speaker 1: your first this is your this is true. This is
Speaker 1: the first trackable thing you will ever do in your life.
Speaker 1: Do you understand what I'm saying? Meaning something you say
Speaker 1: now will forever be someone will always be able to
Speaker 1: locate this. And this is the first thing you've ever
Speaker 1: done like that except when we were ice fishing. I
Speaker 1: was on that. Oh sorry, did I tell you all
Speaker 1: this before that? No? Okay, I'm gonna ask you some questions.
Speaker 1: I want you to give me very specific answers with
Speaker 1: no smart assery. Okay, tell people how you have war
Speaker 1: paint on your face and how you made that war paint. Um. So,
Speaker 1: we have a like a Mr. Heater, little buddy like
Speaker 1: heater that we had in our um turkey blind and
Speaker 1: I got really bored when the action slowed down for
Speaker 1: a little bit um and just took a stick and
Speaker 1: stead of whittling the tip um and stuck it in
Speaker 1: that heat or flame until it was like had embers
Speaker 1: on it. And then I scraped that off in and
Speaker 1: my dad war paint. You reinvented the pencil excep charcoal. Uh.
Speaker 1: What was I gonna ask you next? Oh, explain the
Speaker 1: set of circumstances that happened the first time we started dogs,
Speaker 1: little buddy heater up Um. There was a mouse in
Speaker 1: a mouse, A mother mouse had made a nest inside
Speaker 1: of it, and I remember asking you is it supposed
Speaker 1: to be smoking? Well, first the mouse, what happened with
Speaker 1: the mouse? Ran come booking out of there? And I
Speaker 1: tried to light it, and then it starts smoking like
Speaker 1: holy hell. Then we cleaned it out and had it here.
Speaker 1: Here's my next question. You're doing good so far. Do
Speaker 1: you prefer hunting turkeys from a blind or doing what
Speaker 1: we call running and gunning? Like running and gunning? Why
Speaker 1: do you think that is? Um? Because I feel like
Speaker 1: there's more action. I feel like if you call one
Speaker 1: of the blind, it's just a lot of sitting, and
Speaker 1: then when you're running and gunning, you're up in the
Speaker 1: woods listening and moving around, and it seems just a
Speaker 1: little more active and more enjoyable. Here's my next question
Speaker 1: for you. You feel that you're somehow undergunned having a
Speaker 1: pump action shotgun, and you feel that you need to
Speaker 1: have an auto loader. Can you explain that to people? Um? So,
Speaker 1: it's it's not so much with turkeys, but when I
Speaker 1: duck hunt, it seems to be that like Harrison, our
Speaker 1: neighbor who has a semi automatic shotgun, he can, um
Speaker 1: like just shoot get many more shots off. It's more
Speaker 1: or less it seems to be. Seems to I don't know.
Speaker 1: It just kind of outperformed me with a pump because
Speaker 1: if I have a bad adrenaline rush, I forget to reload.
Speaker 1: So then I'm thinking from watching you thinking that it's
Speaker 1: just another show littled in and then I can just
Speaker 1: shoot again. Okay, if you had this your last question,
Speaker 1: less you got anything you want to add or dugger Pat?
Speaker 1: Or yeah, I might have a question for you. If
Speaker 1: you had to rate your father's ability to hear gobbles
Speaker 1: relative to your ability to hear gobbles? What would you
Speaker 1: say out of what? No? Relative to yours? Oh? Um,
Speaker 1: decent for your age? Yeah, because Pat, he's got hearing.
Speaker 1: It's can you set those like gobble mode for listening
Speaker 1: to try and it doesn't make every a difference? Really? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can I can hear better, I can hear him better,
Speaker 1: but still compared to like, yeah, yesterday and day before,
Speaker 1: he's picking out distant gobblers. I never heard my favorite
Speaker 1: one of my favorite hunting stories, And Jimmy, you can
Speaker 1: help me tell the story. We're sitting at the navel
Speaker 1: last year, late morning and what happened. Um So my
Speaker 1: dad did like the first we sat down, and I,
Speaker 1: like always do is beg my dad to call just
Speaker 1: to see if we'll get a response from anything. And
Speaker 1: I say, what what do I as you say, why,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it yet? Um letting things quiet down? Yeah,
Speaker 1: where we walked in there and might have spooked some
Speaker 1: things out of the area. He's letting things mellow. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Dad, call, call and he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: fine and does one. I'm like, there's a gobble and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, there's not. I'm like, there is a
Speaker 1: gobble and he calls again and it the turkey gobbles again,
Speaker 1: and then there's it's followed by two more and I
Speaker 1: keep saying like, there's a turkey there. I can hear
Speaker 1: it gobbling, and my dad like just keeps telling me no, no.
Speaker 1: At this point, it's getting closer, talking about there's no turkey.
Speaker 1: He said, there's like no turkey, um and he calls
Speaker 1: again and he's like, is that a gobble. I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: that's what I've been telling you for like five minutes.
Speaker 1: And next thing we know, there's three turkeys, three big turkeys,
Speaker 1: running in and they all fan out. And I think
Speaker 1: the coolest thing I saw with those turkeys is when
Speaker 1: the front one put its fan out and the other
Speaker 1: two put their fans out, and the turkey turn around
Speaker 1: and looked at him, and they put their fans back
Speaker 1: in and just walked behind them. And he had a shot,
Speaker 1: and he wouldn't shooting because he's waiting for them. He's
Speaker 1: waiting for the boss Tom. Yeah, and then he got
Speaker 1: the boss Tom. Well, you got a question for him.
Speaker 1: You can take a couple more questions. I'm done with you.
Speaker 1: How good is your dad compared to you? I'm picking
Speaker 1: the direct coming from better. He's better, I'm better. You're better.
Speaker 1: Once I hear it, I know where it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's when he hears it. But when it's far off,
Speaker 1: I seem to be better. That might also be because
Speaker 1: when it's super far off, I seem to be the
Speaker 1: only one who can hear it, so it's hard to
Speaker 1: argue with them, right, Jimmy, you told us after dinner
Speaker 1: last night that if you you could hunt one species
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, it would be turkey. Why
Speaker 1: is that um? Because I feel like with turkeys, it's
Speaker 1: kind of like they're just kind of wild in an
Speaker 1: unimaginable way where it's like they're never you never see
Speaker 1: a turkey just laying down in the brush, Like you
Speaker 1: never see one hidden or trying to get like out
Speaker 1: of being a turkey. Like they're just always on the move.
Speaker 1: They're always feeding, They're always like at night when there's
Speaker 1: I just learned this yesterday, they incubate their eggs all
Speaker 1: night and that's how a lot of turkeys, a lot
Speaker 1: of female turkeys die And it's like because they gotta
Speaker 1: lay on the they got, they can't go in their
Speaker 1: roost tree. So it's like it just kind of goes
Speaker 1: to show how like there just they're so strong in
Speaker 1: a way where it's like they know what they have
Speaker 1: a very good mindset on like what needs to happen
Speaker 1: and when it needs to happen, and what's the right
Speaker 1: time for breeding, and if they're supposed to come into
Speaker 1: a call like when you're hunting turkeys, it's not like
Speaker 1: you go out there and just see one. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like you have to almost trick the turkey and
Speaker 1: manipulate them into coming into your call. It's right, it's good.
Speaker 1: Like you haven't said anything that's going to keep you
Speaker 1: out of getting into college or anything. All right, well,
Speaker 1: let me ask you a question and see if we
Speaker 1: can get that to that point. So you said that
Speaker 1: you preferred running and gunning to sitting in a blind.
Speaker 1: Which have you had more success with? Um? Equal the equal,
Speaker 1: But I'd say the one that I definitely had more
Speaker 1: fun with was running and gunning because that was like
Speaker 1: we saw two snapping turtles breeding, and then it was
Speaker 1: like we just got to see a lot more than Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're walking along, we're actually working in on a turkey
Speaker 1: and I see a turtle. It's a big snapper, And
Speaker 1: I tell Jimmy, here, I'll show you how to sneak
Speaker 1: up and grab a turtle. And when I jacked that
Speaker 1: turkle turtle out of there, what what was he doing? Oh?
Speaker 1: There was a male and a female. They were breeding,
Speaker 1: locked and embraced. Yeah, Chloeake and the Chloeacle Kiss they
Speaker 1: call that put their chloeacas together awesome, like that, can
Speaker 1: we keep it? And he's like, we don't have something
Speaker 1: to kill it with? And because you're you suggested that
Speaker 1: we what shoot it with my shotgun? And I said,
Speaker 1: what will that do to the turkey situation? And we
Speaker 1: got going on right now? Really mess it up? So
Speaker 1: what did that happen? Wait a minute, that was running
Speaker 1: in gun. That was running in gun, and so things
Speaker 1: are more apt to happen. But yeah, you know you
Speaker 1: saw a river rotter when you were sitting in a blind,
Speaker 1: not not we weren't holding by the tail well fair enough?
Speaker 1: So how many? Uh so? Then how many turkeys have
Speaker 1: you have you harvested? To we're in Texas. Last year
Speaker 1: was his first year turkey hunt and he got to
Speaker 1: last year and he got one here, one here, and
Speaker 1: one at home. And then this year he's this year,
Speaker 1: he's having a horrible year. I'm having a really bad year.
Speaker 1: When we were in Texas, we like I just couldn't
Speaker 1: get up on turkeys. And pretty soon there's like, I
Speaker 1: look ut the my dad points out to I told
Speaker 1: your sisters up to bat. Sister gets first shot. It's
Speaker 1: not fair, um, completely fair and she got one yeah, um,
Speaker 1: which happened to be a bigger tan m hm um.
Speaker 1: So two turkeys so far and you got one in
Speaker 1: a blind and one running and gunna um. But we
Speaker 1: were in Texas. My dad pointed out two gobblers and
Speaker 1: I you want to talk about running and gunning, listen
Speaker 1: to this hunting story. This is the craziest hunting story him,
Speaker 1: Jimmy said, here, can you just keep asking what happens
Speaker 1: when you try to tear off against your dad yelling
Speaker 1: at you not to do it? Um? So let me,
Speaker 1: let me, let me just set scene real quick, just
Speaker 1: because we're driving along going out to hunt, and come
Speaker 1: around the corner and here's a gobbler standing there. So
Speaker 1: this vehicle and has no doors, right, it's open top,
Speaker 1: no doors. It's just like a chopped off subourbon. He's outdoor.
Speaker 1: I'm like no, but he grabs his gun and hustles
Speaker 1: off into the bushes. And what did you turn up
Speaker 1: in the bushes? So I took anyone with my shotgun
Speaker 1: and had a great shaw of the turkey's head and
Speaker 1: pull a trigger. My safety was on. Then I turned
Speaker 1: my safety off and bust the move through the bush's
Speaker 1: fall and my safety gets turned back on. So now
Speaker 1: this this is what they teach you and Hunter's safety.
Speaker 1: I'm hustling after this turkey and I'm like sweating, and
Speaker 1: I get up here and this turkey is stuck in
Speaker 1: a bush like it cannot move completely friar patch and
Speaker 1: got hung up. So I take aim of this turkey
Speaker 1: and my safety is on once again. This turkey turns,
Speaker 1: runs back towards me and starts flying and is gone.
Speaker 1: And this happened twice. This happened twice when my safety
Speaker 1: no like a different, a whole different incident. Screaming, My
Speaker 1: lungs off to kick his ass bag to the car.
Speaker 1: But while he's screaming. One of the times I didn't
Speaker 1: shoot because my dad was screaming at me where I
Speaker 1: thought he'd be mad. I was where as you could
Speaker 1: have come walking on it. They're going, what are you
Speaker 1: yelling about? Holding the turkey up? Oh you're good, thanks,
Speaker 1: sure me here all right. Doug and I were talking earlier.
Speaker 1: See that we like the way. We like the way
Speaker 1: you talk to your kids like I'm annoyed you you're direct,
Speaker 1: Oh speaking of I read you a little bit of
Speaker 1: this Doug James like, I hate video games. I don't
Speaker 1: like them none, but James like has been lobbying aggressive.
Speaker 1: I love this to get an Xbox. His mom kind
Speaker 1: of like, I don't really understand. I had to check
Speaker 1: with someone who knows about this stuff. His mom thinks
Speaker 1: it's all right because you don't like you're not meeting
Speaker 1: strangers online. It's true or not true. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's possible. I think you can.
Speaker 1: You can play with people all across the world. Depend
Speaker 1: there like there must be something. Unless she doesn't know
Speaker 1: what she's talking about. She feels like that it's all right.
Speaker 1: I don't know either way. Our lawyer who represents our company,
Speaker 1: I asked him to draft up a contract, a real
Speaker 1: official looking contract to govern his use. It's so funny
Speaker 1: to govern his use. And I sent him my point
Speaker 1: my deal points, and so he sends his contract over
Speaker 1: like it's long. So I'm in the terms of Youth
Speaker 1: Section three dot two dot one. James Rennett will secure
Speaker 1: the prior consent from the Guardians before any all use
Speaker 1: of the Xbox, which consent maybe withheld for any reason, including,
Speaker 1: but not limited to, no reason at all. Three to two,
Speaker 1: James Rennet will not introduced any new games to the
Speaker 1: Xbox without securing the prior consent from the guardians before
Speaker 1: any use, which consent may be withheld for any reason, including,
Speaker 1: but not limited to, no reason at all. Three to three.
Speaker 1: The use of the Xbox will not supersede or interfere
Speaker 1: with James Ronella's obligations to the family Ronella, which includes
Speaker 1: requested chores, daily routines, school obligations, room cleaning, outdoor sports activities,
Speaker 1: family gatherings, family interactions, pet care and maintenance, and general
Speaker 1: good behavior that goes on and on six pages. And
Speaker 1: he's like he wants to see He was asking about
Speaker 1: getting it and having comments, and I told him, not
Speaker 1: only is it non negotiable, but it's an exploding offer,
Speaker 1: meaning he signs or else. The whole conversation just ends.
Speaker 1: Your kid's going to be a lawyer studying documents. One
Speaker 1: more deal point. There should be no complaining, squabbling, nagging, crying, fighting, hitting, punching,
Speaker 1: or wrestling with any siblings or any other youth that
Speaker 1: is related to the use of the Xbox. Violation of
Speaker 1: this requirement may result in additional adverse consequences to James
Speaker 1: Ronnella beyond the inability to use the Xbox. No, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna frame this son a bit and hang it above
Speaker 1: that thing. He won't even he's not even gonna turn.
Speaker 1: It's just like, you know what, too much trouble. That's great.
Speaker 1: Huh oh seeing that, Seeing that kid reminds me if
Speaker 1: you haven't bought it by it. Outdoor Kids in an
Speaker 1: Inside World is available now. New book about getting your family,
Speaker 1: getting your kids and family outdoors and getting them radically
Speaker 1: engage with nature. Outdoor Kids in an Inside World my book,
Speaker 1: my latest book. Get now. Oh, since we're sitting at
Speaker 1: the Durn Farm right now, in case you didn't already
Speaker 1: catch it, you all have to go watch season three
Speaker 1: A Call in the Field, which is out we're talking
Speaker 1: about Ryan O. Call Callahan, one of those episodes of
Speaker 1: film right here with old Bubbly Doug on the during
Speaker 1: family farm that details of white tail hunt here and
Speaker 1: shows all about dougs conservation efforts to tests and monitor
Speaker 1: c w D in the area. Ocall also spears fish
Speaker 1: and hunts rice ducks and other episodes, So go check
Speaker 1: him out. Educating you all on YouTube. Go to the
Speaker 1: Meat Eaters YouTube channel subscribe check that out. Also, this
Speaker 1: also related to Dugs Farm. The first episode of Yanni's show,
Speaker 1: Janni the Labban Lover who tell us his show on
Speaker 1: the Hunt is out now. One episode was film doing
Speaker 1: what we're just doing, hunting turkeys on the during farm.
Speaker 1: Yanni also goes for black bears with Clay, hunts elk
Speaker 1: with Jason Phelips, and Dirt Durham does his first ever
Speaker 1: self filmed episode pursuing White Tales in Michigan, and he
Speaker 1: hunts turkeys with our friend Roue Map. We're launching a
Speaker 1: giveaway an association with the new series ahead of the
Speaker 1: meat Eater dot com to sign up for a chance
Speaker 1: to win a custom curated gear package hand picked by
Speaker 1: Yanni himself for your own hunting needs. Uh oh, check
Speaker 1: this out. I didn't think this is possible in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: The Pennsylvania Game Commission just found dog did. Did the
Speaker 1: transition throw you? It's about turkeys? Okay? He speaking of
Speaker 1: turkeys a twelve and a half year old wild hen man.
Speaker 1: That seems ancient. Because here's the thing, man like, this
Speaker 1: isn't always true, but I've checked us with two turkey biologists.
Speaker 1: I heard this, I verified with two Turkey biolog just
Speaker 1: and it's like, here's the thing you can safely say,
Speaker 1: and we've said it many times on the show. Of
Speaker 1: the eggs that hit the ground. Now there's just running averages, okay, average,
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of exceptions, but average on average. So, uh,
Speaker 1: they'll lay about a dozen eggs. Of the eggs to
Speaker 1: hit the ground, seventy percent won't hatch. Mhm. Of the
Speaker 1: eggs that hatch, seventy percent won't see their first birthday.
Speaker 1: Of those that see their first birthday, seventy percent won't
Speaker 1: see their second birthday. Just very round numbers. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: get a twelve and a half year old hen previously
Speaker 1: captured and tagged as an adult in two thousand twelve
Speaker 1: clear Field County. Yeah, that's crazy. So they've been tracking
Speaker 1: her for a decade. They just threw a GPS track
Speaker 1: around her now, unbelievable, Like she must just always make
Speaker 1: the right decision right, go right or go left left,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? Yeah, or would be interesting, No,
Speaker 1: but more about her life history? Is she I would like,
Speaker 1: is she somehow infertile? Mhm? Huh it is never never
Speaker 1: ground nested I like, I don't know, Like has she
Speaker 1: really success like she has survived incubating nests eleven times?
Speaker 1: Question spending the night on the ground as Clay Nucom's
Speaker 1: relative set never fall in love with the ground nesting bird?
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, unbelievable. Another oddball thing, totally different. Have
Speaker 1: you guys seen this? They're trying This is in Michigan.
Speaker 1: They're trying to find out what is up with this deer.
Speaker 1: There's some photographs that emerged where a white tailed dough
Speaker 1: was missing both of her rear hooves. Explain what that
Speaker 1: looks like, because it's just leg like white, dry, white
Speaker 1: leg bones emerging out of her from below her knee.
Speaker 1: So she's walking on the just a white, a clean
Speaker 1: pier like leg bones, six inches of leg bone, no hooves,
Speaker 1: and she's both of them like done in a hospital,
Speaker 1: like both of them exactly the same. And she lived
Speaker 1: like that and walked around on those bones. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a corn dog. It's like corn
Speaker 1: dog legs right there, just the wood part of the
Speaker 1: sticks are just sticking out, no hoove, no nothing, just
Speaker 1: walking on that. I was like it. It's so there's
Speaker 1: pictures of her alive and pictures of her dead showed
Speaker 1: up in a bulletin board called Michigan Outdoorsman in two
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen. It was at that time had been taken
Speaker 1: several years earlier. No location or other details. Who did
Speaker 1: this come from? Heffl Finger. Hefle fingers trying to find out.
Speaker 1: They don't know the age of the deer or how
Speaker 1: long it it was out. And about that way, Heffelfinger
Speaker 1: reached out the Chad Stewart at the Michigan Department of
Speaker 1: Natural Resources and he asked their recently retired pathologist who
Speaker 1: had been in that job over forty years. I never
Speaker 1: saw her her to that animal, that particular, never saw
Speaker 1: her to what is up with that deer? He didn't know,
Speaker 1: went and searched the archives from two thousand twelve to
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, so around the time these pictures emerged,
Speaker 1: no evidence of that deer coming through the lab of
Speaker 1: someone being like, how did this deer live walking around?
Speaker 1: It would be like if you had imagine that someone
Speaker 1: caught your foot off at the ankle, stripped the muscle
Speaker 1: and flesh up halfway up your calf, and then got
Speaker 1: a trail camp picture of you, and they actually have
Speaker 1: pictures of this thing walking around. If Doug went to
Speaker 1: two his camera set out at the navel, I bet
Speaker 1: that deer comes through there. Dogs like, oh here, I
Speaker 1: got a picture it lost its feet at the navel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hev the figures dying to know about this deer. So
Speaker 1: if you know about the deer and holy cow with
Speaker 1: a bizarre picture, I'm skeptical that it could have lasted
Speaker 1: long that way. But it's two. And look at that
Speaker 1: picture of it, the trail camp picture of it. Yeah, God,
Speaker 1: what do you mean something? There's something. There's something I'm
Speaker 1: not getting. It's a doctored image. Something I don't know.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. It doesn't look like one. No, no,
Speaker 1: it doesn't. I saw it. Okay. And here's the thing
Speaker 1: about it is like helfl Finger. I mean, we got
Speaker 1: a song about helfle Finger. He's not dummy. Oh no,
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing coming from Jim. But I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if Jim's looking into it, like, yeah, trying to down
Speaker 1: You would always say skepticism is the chastity of the intellect.
Speaker 1: I wrote that down Kran found a great Uh. We
Speaker 1: always we always like to cover in Wildlife news misleading
Speaker 1: wildlife news headlines. This is the best one. So there's
Speaker 1: a famous bull elk that lives in Rocky Mountain National Park. Okay,
Speaker 1: somehow this bull elk has three nicknames. He's nicknamed Cahuna,
Speaker 1: which is mildly not he see, uh that being Hawaiian
Speaker 1: for chief. He's nicknamed Bruno, and he's nicknamed this is
Speaker 1: by the hunters who have seen him big thirds. So yeah,
Speaker 1: most part people are like, I don't understand big thirds.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna name him Kahuna. I'm guessing he had big thirds. Uh.
Speaker 1: He lives and dies in Rocky Mountain National Park. There's
Speaker 1: some photographers that have tracked him over the years. He
Speaker 1: goes smith. They said he seemed to have gotten injured
Speaker 1: during the rut, came out of the winner looking wasted,
Speaker 1: very thin, weak. They find his body and it's covered
Speaker 1: in mountain lion tracks and scavenged. He had already shed
Speaker 1: one antler, so he's only got one antler left. Apparently
Speaker 1: someone hauled off then hauled off the skull and some
Speaker 1: park goer I just couldn't resist the temptation. How is
Speaker 1: this reported? Newsweeks take a guess. At the headline, Doug,
Speaker 1: I can't even begin to well here it is from
Speaker 1: the Tech and Science desk. No less, famous elk beheaded
Speaker 1: in Rocky Mountains. Oh my god, the remains will return
Speaker 1: to the earth. Famous elk beheaded in rocky Mountains just
Speaker 1: doesn't end the garbage. But what these people do, though,
Speaker 1: that I don't get, is the letdowns day inspire the letdowns,
Speaker 1: the disappointments. Because I would see that headline, I'm like,
Speaker 1: holy ship, that's what happened to me. That's what happened
Speaker 1: to me. Yeah, And then you're like, oh, that's what happened.
Speaker 1: Well you, I think years ago, I remember you saying
Speaker 1: one time, and I really made me kind of rethink
Speaker 1: how I look at non hunters. I tend to give
Speaker 1: them the benefit of doubt. You made a great point
Speaker 1: one time. How why would this matter to them? They
Speaker 1: don't hunt, They have no connection to hunter, So how
Speaker 1: can you expect them to know all these nuances that
Speaker 1: we will argue about, and we'll fight about. They don't
Speaker 1: know the main topic, and we're arguing the nuances, and
Speaker 1: but then this comes along. You think, all right, though,
Speaker 1: come on, you're going away beyond even objective fact here
Speaker 1: with that kind of headline, that kind of storytelling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not a hell. What to say about it? We'll keep
Speaker 1: talking about it. Another interesting that I've been seeing a
Speaker 1: lot lately is someone, a photographer who found it before
Speaker 1: its head, before it was beheaded, said that he felt
Speaker 1: humbled touching it's antler. I don't understand that. I have
Speaker 1: no idea either. Ye would you mind pulling up real
Speaker 1: quick what it means to be humbled? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: I would assume that it's you know, whether it was
Speaker 1: that the antler is from from such a large animal
Speaker 1: at the antlers are are large, or it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of energy himself. I don't know. Maybe this guy
Speaker 1: has just got some psychological I'm not down. I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm just curious what, like what it actually happens when
Speaker 1: you get I mean, I know, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just want to hear, like from the straight from
Speaker 1: the the dictionary, when you're humbled, you're like putting your
Speaker 1: place um or at least made the meet made to
Speaker 1: feel like hmm, brought down the earth little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: lower someone in dignity or importance. There's a dictionary definition.
Speaker 1: So he touched the antler and felt his dignity lower
Speaker 1: and his self importance lowered. That's a horn hunter right there.
Speaker 1: That's an antler. I think if I was trying to
Speaker 1: solve this mystery, I would check that gentleman's garage. A
Speaker 1: person of interest in court, the judge, the lawyer, Like,
Speaker 1: is it true that you felt humbled by that antler?
Speaker 1: Are you sure you were? Odd? Oh, here's a good
Speaker 1: story for you, Dog, you'll appreciate this. I wish, like
Speaker 1: I wish this was always concerns me. When you say
Speaker 1: that that, I'm gonna be well, I stole that, Joe.
Speaker 1: I'm not using it right. But that's Brian can and joke.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Let's say Callen's gonna tell you like the
Speaker 1: most Like, Let's say Callen's gonna tell you a story
Speaker 1: about like the worst sex offender. He'll say, He'll be like, dog,
Speaker 1: you'll appreciate this. Tell about something. You'll appreciate this, Doug.
Speaker 1: So there's a guy. So Karne Likens is too. When
Speaker 1: you but ar keeps playing with an online you liken
Speaker 1: it to an online love scam. But I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't had a love scam, have you? I have not?
Speaker 1: But you haven't shown up for a date that turned
Speaker 1: out to be no. But it's like you'll hear about
Speaker 1: these instances of people who meet others online, so you
Speaker 1: don't know if they're a real person or not. But
Speaker 1: there have been, you know, for years, these scams where
Speaker 1: you know someone who I don't even want to call
Speaker 1: them desperate. It doesn't have to be desperate. You're interacting
Speaker 1: with someone over email who you imagine to be the
Speaker 1: person who they say they are in these emails. Maybe
Speaker 1: you think you've seen proof that they exist because they've
Speaker 1: sent you photos, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, and there's
Speaker 1: a there's a whole sob story, and they entice you
Speaker 1: into sending money somewhere over Western Union, over whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So when I read this, uh, that's exactly what I
Speaker 1: what I thought about. Someone took that the you know,
Speaker 1: most famously, it's like a guy in Nigeria has all
Speaker 1: of the King's money and if you could just send
Speaker 1: him three hundred bucks, he'd be able to bring all
Speaker 1: the king's money to you. Right, this is a guy
Speaker 1: who took this. This is like I always love this
Speaker 1: because it's so specific. Somehow this guy starts island hunting
Speaker 1: leases in Ohio that don't exist, huh for big money,
Speaker 1: for money, he's selling five thousand dollar leases. He sells
Speaker 1: the lease to guy, and the guy goes over there
Speaker 1: to start scouting, and the landowner comes down being like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Because haven't you heard we just lease
Speaker 1: this place? Guy's like you what? I am interested? So
Speaker 1: then they get Yeah, they catch the guy. They get
Speaker 1: him showing up to collect his money. Like the fishing
Speaker 1: game gets involved and he's got like wire fraud and
Speaker 1: all that. Did US Fishing Wildlife Service get involved in this?
Speaker 1: I suppose we went across the lines, didn't you. I
Speaker 1: think US Fishing Wildlife Service even got involved. OHIL Department
Speaker 1: and Natural Resources Division of Wildlife was involved, involved in
Speaker 1: search warrants and social media. They did it in connection
Speaker 1: with US Fish and Wildlife Service because it was wire
Speaker 1: fraud outside the state. Yeah, and US Fish and Wildlife Service. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of credit to them. They took a real
Speaker 1: serious uh huh. So protecting sustainable hunting of America's wildlife
Speaker 1: resources is bedrock to our mission in the US Fish
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service, said Assistant Director Edward Grace from their
Speaker 1: Office of Law Enforcement, investigating those who pray on individuals
Speaker 1: attempting to hunt lawfully by defrauding them is our trusted
Speaker 1: responsibility to the American people. Here's where it gets, uh here,
Speaker 1: here's where. Here's where. So he's guilty. The guy played guilty.
Speaker 1: His name's Knox, played guilty to wire fraud. He's scheduled
Speaker 1: to be sentenced maximum penalty, which ye get like you
Speaker 1: know what he'll get like a day, the maximum penalty
Speaker 1: twenty years key manage of the judge actually did that years?
Speaker 1: Not shipping either, did they did they talk about how
Speaker 1: much money he defrauded people of Uh? Yeah, at least
Speaker 1: fifty nine of the individuals he was he interacted with
Speaker 1: sent initial payments to this defendant totally over thirty four
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. You know. And the other question that comes
Speaker 1: to mind, I mean, the criminal mind generally is not
Speaker 1: a real sharp one. How can you see that? Okay?
Speaker 1: In this case? How did this guy not think he
Speaker 1: was gonna How did he think he was going to
Speaker 1: get away with this eventually? I guess he went on
Speaker 1: for a while, But how did you think you were
Speaker 1: not going to like his business? Like criminal business plan? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And here's how I'm confused when the people show up
Speaker 1: to police. I mean, I guess if you're sending money
Speaker 1: then yeah, it just seems like a it's gonna catch
Speaker 1: up with you eventually. Oh, check this out. They found
Speaker 1: this sweet knife in what country was it now? In Norway,
Speaker 1: way up hind the alpine area in the mountains. They
Speaker 1: found an old caribou like a caribou hunter's knife around
Speaker 1: with all kinds of other well, reindeer there because it's Europe,
Speaker 1: with other like reindeer hunting equipment, like they'd build these
Speaker 1: sort of like drive lines. And he had a birch
Speaker 1: burrel handle. It was metal like they had metal technology,
Speaker 1: metal knife, big long tang inside runs the whole length
Speaker 1: built around a birch burrel handle laying on the rock
Speaker 1: like some something bitch left there last week. Beautiful, I
Speaker 1: mean rusted, but like beautiful, I mean not even that
Speaker 1: much rust, just like a little bit. It could have been,
Speaker 1: you know, your old knife, they say, in that area
Speaker 1: because just because of how like it's like dry high
Speaker 1: country stuff. Just they got all kinds of arrows and
Speaker 1: around that long you look at be like, oh, look
Speaker 1: an arrow melting out of the ice and stuff. We
Speaker 1: got knife. Isn't that crazy? Yeah? Who hasn't done that?
Speaker 1: Left a knife behind? And that's by a gut pile
Speaker 1: out in the world. Oh yeah, And this article gets
Speaker 1: into something interesting that. Um, around that time years ago,
Speaker 1: the Vikings began to establish trade networks for caribou hides
Speaker 1: and in goods, and they can and then when they
Speaker 1: go and look at like genetic stuff, they can see
Speaker 1: that the population start to bottle neck out. Huh, like
Speaker 1: they were over hunting. Once they developed like good trade networks,
Speaker 1: they started to pouring the coals to them and they
Speaker 1: see that they really started to reduce the numbers significantly.
Speaker 1: Contemporaneous with them establishing markets, which is very similar to
Speaker 1: the you know what happened to the market bison? Everything
Speaker 1: clicking lawn and then someone wants to give you a
Speaker 1: couple for the hide, talking him down? All right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what I'll give people an update on? Yeah yang this?
Speaker 1: Since do you want to tell people? Where are you
Speaker 1: gonna be next Wednesday? Next Wednesday? Isn't it next Wednesday? Um?
Speaker 1: Are we are we turkey hunting next Wednesday? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I thought you're gonna be in the land at eating it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well it's it's actually in two days Wednesday,
Speaker 1: you'll have yeah, you'll have already eating at Kevin Glaspie's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm actually going home and packing up and then heading
Speaker 1: out tomorrow at six am. Awesome. Yeah, So what's going
Speaker 1: on in hunting Land? Have you had? You didn't have
Speaker 1: any You guys don't have any success here at the
Speaker 1: during place. Wasn't able to produce for you. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: but all is not lost. You know, we um got
Speaker 1: McHale out there and we heard tons of gobbling and
Speaker 1: saw a ton of turkeys, and so I think that's
Speaker 1: totally worth the trip. Was this her first turkey hunt
Speaker 1: if you count us walking out a few days ago
Speaker 1: because the seasons already started in Minnesota. So we we
Speaker 1: went out for a running gun style um um on
Speaker 1: Wednesday evening after school and then you know, we got
Speaker 1: ready to come here. So officially it's it's her first
Speaker 1: time out, like sitting in a blind for a long time,
Speaker 1: she must have really liked it to almost got the
Speaker 1: same attorney as Steve. That part was no non negotiable,
Speaker 1: and she was She was getting um contentious with Pat
Speaker 1: and I a little bit because she wanted to stay
Speaker 1: here with the kids. You know, She's like, could we
Speaker 1: just go for thirty minutes? They can't, they can't, can't
Speaker 1: be you got a pretty good turkey hunter to do.
Speaker 1: But that was if you said, if she in thirty minutes,
Speaker 1: we'll be back here within an hour. You know, so
Speaker 1: it could happen. And then, uh what happened last year's season?
Speaker 1: Last year's season did a did a ton of hunting.
Speaker 1: Um I missed an any pointer? Uh be a shotgun?
Speaker 1: Um I texted you about it, but you gave me
Speaker 1: no sympathies. Uh So, so missed one an opening day
Speaker 1: and of the rifle season, and then didn't see one
Speaker 1: after that. And then my brother and I went out
Speaker 1: a few times, and my buddy went out a few
Speaker 1: times down in Rochester, and um, we went out one
Speaker 1: day it was the u h last day of the
Speaker 1: archery season and then the next day would have been
Speaker 1: the c W D hunt. So I was sitting in
Speaker 1: a tree with my bowl and it was getting cold
Speaker 1: and used like sub ten degrees or something like that. Um,
Speaker 1: I was fugiating with my gloves and you know, this
Speaker 1: tiny spike came by and I didn't have I didn't
Speaker 1: have a chance of shoot and so that was that.
Speaker 1: And then the next day was the cdw D hunt
Speaker 1: and we we didn't see any that came by. So
Speaker 1: so that was it. That's like what Yanni always says, Yep,
Speaker 1: so close, but I feel like I feel like we're
Speaker 1: getting closer. And um, but you know it's still you know,
Speaker 1: time most bent, how old you know time like you
Speaker 1: you got twenty more years deer hunt ahead at least,
Speaker 1: dug still kicking. Yeah. Well, my my only my only
Speaker 1: slight regret is I started late, right and so um yeah,
Speaker 1: but looking forward to it. Yeah, that's good. Your seasons
Speaker 1: are much shorter. The archery season is September, September all
Speaker 1: the way to end of December. And then you got
Speaker 1: the rifle mixed in there. You know. Um, I bought
Speaker 1: a bunch of more firearms since we last met. Well,
Speaker 1: I was telling these guys the you know, Minnesota split
Speaker 1: into the north and southeast, so we ended up hunting
Speaker 1: or I'd end up hunting with my brother and my buddies,
Speaker 1: just mostly in the south of the couple of days
Speaker 1: after I missed that buck, you know, I was with
Speaker 1: the regular twelve gauge shotgun with you know the smooth
Speaker 1: barrel and you have to have the rifle slug right. Well,
Speaker 1: two days later I went and bought an actual both
Speaker 1: action slug gun shotgun sel so I could use it
Speaker 1: pretty much anywhere in the state. Yeah, when you get
Speaker 1: your first year, I think we all have a party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the first year party. You'll you'll be the first one
Speaker 1: to know. Doug Aston must have been a Friday or so.
Speaker 1: How many guns you have now done? Because you're talking
Speaker 1: putting this gun buying spree, he said, I think he
Speaker 1: said ten. Then Doug as froll what are they? And
Speaker 1: he started going to his list and Duck says, that's
Speaker 1: only six? Are four? And I think the thing he
Speaker 1: kind of stumped you. Yeah, we got up to eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was was a but it's it really is ten
Speaker 1: if you count the handguns. You know, I do have
Speaker 1: to handguns. And then I I do have a muzzloader.
Speaker 1: Now you know, I he shot it yet. But right
Speaker 1: after the muzzleloader season, um, my brother and I like, well,
Speaker 1: I think if we want to keep hunting a lot,
Speaker 1: we we need to get into this muzzleloader action. So
Speaker 1: him and I went and bought two muzzleloaders, and you
Speaker 1: know it's got the you know, the pellets, um you know,
Speaker 1: I guess they call it the inline muzzleloader. I learned
Speaker 1: all about it this year for the first time. We
Speaker 1: should muzzleload hunt together sometimes. I just started doing that.
Speaker 1: So it's like we're getting we're new at it together.
Speaker 1: It sounds great. With one. You gotta um a promising
Speaker 1: hunt plan put together for this Oh yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, got right after the Turkey season.
Speaker 1: You know, we're probably gonna you know, I think the
Speaker 1: one thing I've been learning throughout this process is you
Speaker 1: got to do a lot more scouting. So we done
Speaker 1: did a ton of scouting before the Turkey season, and
Speaker 1: then as soon as this Turkey season ends, you know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna go back into you know, archery mode and
Speaker 1: scouting mode for the for the summer. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: it's gonna be archery, you know, rifle and then muzzleloader. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you know, whatever the c w D hunts
Speaker 1: are will be typically have two at the end of
Speaker 1: middle December and December. If when when you get one
Speaker 1: and I'm saying when when you get a deer, do
Speaker 1: you imagine you'll do all mong preparations or do you
Speaker 1: think you'll do like Joe Blow American preparations, Well, the
Speaker 1: Mong preparations are really just soup. And so, which which
Speaker 1: is another thing is my brother and I said that,
Speaker 1: you know, want one day when you can get this
Speaker 1: group to there, will we'll coop. We'll cook up this
Speaker 1: we if you literally translated, it's poop soup, right, which
Speaker 1: is which is which is basically every like just everything
Speaker 1: in this big pot. It's what kind of soup soup?
Speaker 1: It's I mean it's I mean literally everything but the
Speaker 1: kitchen sink pretty much. I mean, you clean, you clean
Speaker 1: out the you know you're talking the stomach. You know,
Speaker 1: you're talking everything from the deer from the deer. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeptcom intrigued. Yeah, I mean it's it's really
Speaker 1: just I mean, there's nothing special to it. It's just um,
Speaker 1: you know, typically we don't throw away anything, right and
Speaker 1: so and that's you guys. You guys people are more
Speaker 1: connected to the days of want than our people. Yes,
Speaker 1: I have been softened and spoiled by opulence. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: if you know, and I grew up in you know,
Speaker 1: in the Twin Cities. When we have our you know,
Speaker 1: cultural rituals usually typically go onto you butcher a pig
Speaker 1: or um a cow to basically you're offering that up
Speaker 1: to the ancestors or to do the ceremony, like if
Speaker 1: you have a newborn, you know everybody, You invite everybody
Speaker 1: and they tie strings on their hands. It's it's actually
Speaker 1: a thaie ceremony um in origin. But um. You typically
Speaker 1: butcher cow or pig and you invite the whole community
Speaker 1: or your family. And that's one of the things that
Speaker 1: they do is they take they save everything, including um,
Speaker 1: including the skin, and they they they use it all
Speaker 1: in whatever type of dishes that they're cooking for the day.
Speaker 1: And this big pot of stew is usually you know,
Speaker 1: one of the main things because it could feed a
Speaker 1: lot of people. It's got stomaching, it's got it's got everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: anything you can imagine goes in there, except for the heart. Dude,
Speaker 1: did you did you? Did you listen Doug? I gotta
Speaker 1: revisit something. Did you listen to the episode when he
Speaker 1: was on when you talked about the clan of mung
Speaker 1: that can't eat heart? I vaguely recall it. Well, let's
Speaker 1: we're gonna do a game at chicken. No, what's it
Speaker 1: called nut chicken? Telephone? If I get this straight. And
Speaker 1: by the way, audience, that's episode two seventy seven driving
Speaker 1: Squirrels with the Mom, which was should have been called
Speaker 1: mong dudes, you trouble. So so I'm gonna get this straight.
Speaker 1: There's a legend or a story where there's a and
Speaker 1: it's it's a curse. Actually it's a curse. There is
Speaker 1: a one of these events is occurring and they put
Speaker 1: the heart of a what uh, Kyle, they needed that
Speaker 1: to just tell a damn story. I mean, I know
Speaker 1: the gist of it, but I just want you to
Speaker 1: retell the story. Okay. So they're they're cooking this big
Speaker 1: pot and in that pot is the heart of um.
Speaker 1: You know, depending on who tells the story, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's usually a cow. Right. When it came time
Speaker 1: to come take the heart to go and do whatever
Speaker 1: they needed to do with with the heart, they couldn't
Speaker 1: find it in the pot, in the pot anywhere, looked
Speaker 1: high and low, couldn't find it. So they they looked
Speaker 1: in the pot, couldn't find it. So they blamed it
Speaker 1: on this young boy or kid um or or a
Speaker 1: young man or a young kid and long story. Should
Speaker 1: they used his heart. Ah, so they you know, ended
Speaker 1: up killing him. Used that used his heart for this
Speaker 1: because you have to because they had to contract. So
Speaker 1: so but you had there were some details about that boy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so um you know apparently he that boy young man
Speaker 1: had a like a mental disability and so um he
Speaker 1: because he was essentially easy to blame because he couldn't
Speaker 1: defend himself. Um, so they used his heart and blamed
Speaker 1: it on him. When everything was said and done, Uh,
Speaker 1: and they're cleaning out the pot, they find the cows
Speaker 1: hearts stuck at the bottom of the pot. And it
Speaker 1: was there all along. Oh so then this kind of
Speaker 1: cover up ensues, right and one of the relatives or
Speaker 1: I can't remember it was. It was a woman. It
Speaker 1: was it was a woman because it was a woman
Speaker 1: who laid the curve on the men. So you know,
Speaker 1: her curse was that from this day forth, all you men,
Speaker 1: you ever eat a heart, you're gonna go blind and
Speaker 1: so and and that curse affects certain subclans of the
Speaker 1: I'm a Yang, so it affects certain subclans of the Yang.
Speaker 1: So you can't eat heart. I can't eat heart. Wow,
Speaker 1: and you don't think heart and you honor that I do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's one of the first things you learned growing up
Speaker 1: um And yeah, so I was sharing I was sharing
Speaker 1: this last time. Was two things you learned growing up
Speaker 1: is you know, you can't eat heart as as a
Speaker 1: um as a male member of the family, and you
Speaker 1: can't marry somebody with the same last name, regardless of subclan.
Speaker 1: So huh, I think that poop soup is gonna be great. Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1: I like your attention to detail and the level of
Speaker 1: of of of detail that and that you're able to
Speaker 1: delve into these stories really well. I just find it fascinating.
Speaker 1: So what are you doing the Saturday before? Thanks? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's interesting you ask that because
Speaker 1: you know my you know, my wife, her her family
Speaker 1: obviously isn't effect affected by the curse, right, but you
Speaker 1: you kinda hear, you know, when you go to family again,
Speaker 1: and you kind of hear, oh, you know, we got
Speaker 1: the sudden low over the candy arts, so you guys
Speaker 1: kind to watch out for that, you know. So, uh,
Speaker 1: they do kind of It's kind of like this known thing.
Speaker 1: People take it seriously. Yeah, but they yeah, they do.
Speaker 1: They do take it seriously. Yeah. So yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of one of those kind of funny things, but
Speaker 1: not so funny things. Wherever you go, you know, just
Speaker 1: have to do it the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Well, but
Speaker 1: by that, I mean when you I guess what I
Speaker 1: was thinking it was in general, when you cook stuff
Speaker 1: or when you um and when you get large gatherings,
Speaker 1: you know, you just kind of it's just the known
Speaker 1: thing that you watch out what you put in the
Speaker 1: you know, all the dishes or to not putting you
Speaker 1: hearten her. Yeah, yeah, because you have members that are
Speaker 1: affected by that. So that has to do with Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Saturday before Thanksgiving something. I think
Speaker 1: you're getting an invite? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so the Saturday
Speaker 1: before Thanksgiving, Doug's not getting to the point. Saturday before
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving is opening day of the gun deer season here
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin where we can shoot bucks and it's a
Speaker 1: nine day It's a nine day season, all right. I
Speaker 1: love to have you come and join us. That'd be great, Doug.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't have anything planned. If you did,
Speaker 1: you just clear that. I will say this about that though. Um,
Speaker 1: we don't eat any deer before we get it tested
Speaker 1: for c WD, so you can't. We won't eat you know,
Speaker 1: fresh venicine from that particularly weekend. So I eat the
Speaker 1: old deer. You got eat the old deer. So usually
Speaker 1: there will be something that'll be summ around, but not
Speaker 1: the whole poop soup thing. Well, I'll make it if
Speaker 1: you want some, Well, maybe we can make it out
Speaker 1: of something else. Oh, you guys work out the details, Doug. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: first off, I thought you have a comment about kids
Speaker 1: and organized sports. Yeah, I do have several. Um, well,
Speaker 1: but it was has been giving the most interesting Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is listening to you and you and
Speaker 1: Katie going back and forth and knowing and loving both
Speaker 1: of you, and knowing and loving your kids. Um, I
Speaker 1: agree with I agree with her about the skiing thing,
Speaker 1: that the kids getting the opportunity to go skiing. I
Speaker 1: understand why how it affects things with you and then
Speaker 1: you were sounded like there was some rub about organized
Speaker 1: sports and whatnot. Um, I don't like commit I don't
Speaker 1: want to commit myself to doing all that stuff for
Speaker 1: a bunch of weekends in a row. Yeah, and rather
Speaker 1: come to like Ducks place even if it was. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, so I played sports all through school. I
Speaker 1: went to college, played basketball, I taught high school. I
Speaker 1: was a high school coach. Um my daughter didn't play.
Speaker 1: She played volleyball for a little while, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of gave up on it wasn't something that I was
Speaker 1: that I pushed her towards, kind of gave her the
Speaker 1: opportunity if she wanted to do it, and U the
Speaker 1: thing that I even though, even though she's five eleven,
Speaker 1: she had a pretty bad ankle injury and she's just like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quick playing sports. And I was like, that's fine.
Speaker 1: Um So all of those that background sports and then
Speaker 1: I build and manage athletic fields for part of my living.
Speaker 1: Um so it seems and I had pretty good experiences
Speaker 1: as an athlete and and and all of that, but
Speaker 1: I also have a wrecked knee, a wrecked ankle, um
Speaker 1: all kinds of sports injuries that um, had I do
Speaker 1: to do my life over, I would have gotten more.
Speaker 1: I think I would have liked to have gotten more
Speaker 1: interested in life lifelong sports, which skiing is one of
Speaker 1: the things that I really like. But I understand is
Speaker 1: like I'm trying to it lays waste to people. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I I know people got hurt really bad.
Speaker 1: But lifelong sports is sort of and that's what I
Speaker 1: like about your approaches. Let's do lifelong sports. Um and
Speaker 1: uh So, even though I have had all this experience
Speaker 1: in sports and a lot of positive moves makes, I've
Speaker 1: also seen the ugly side of like parental involvement with sports.
Speaker 1: I mean, embarrassing moments with people with their kids. And
Speaker 1: because I've been around it, and I mean I had
Speaker 1: parents confront me when I was a coach about their
Speaker 1: kids not playing enough and you know, and all of that,
Speaker 1: and um so I kind of admire the discussion that
Speaker 1: you and Katie have been having about it. And boy,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, hang around with your kids. They aren't
Speaker 1: suffering from any you know, lack of opportunity for various things.
Speaker 1: And um so, yeah, you guys keep working that out.
Speaker 1: All right, Let's let's move on to the next thing
Speaker 1: I gotta talked about. Um, you were you have a
Speaker 1: right to speak about this because when when when we
Speaker 1: had Uncle Ted on the show, Ted Nugent, he and
Speaker 1: I talked about you a fair bit in the context
Speaker 1: of c w D and you had I'm normally not
Speaker 1: interested in retorts, but but you you you felt that
Speaker 1: it came down to factual issues. Yeah. Sure, so this
Speaker 1: is this is be filed under correction, not a retort. Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. And yeah, people reach out to me
Speaker 1: anytime I mentioned on the podcast, Yeah, someone called you.
Speaker 1: What they say, watch out, don't mess a Nugent fat
Speaker 1: boy or something I told you about. Oh, it's just something.
Speaker 1: You beat that person's ass. Can you imagine if you
Speaker 1: got the fight? Whoever? That was when Uh, when I
Speaker 1: was on the Rogun podcast and I referred to Nugent
Speaker 1: as the guitar player. Um, I got messages from a
Speaker 1: guy who said, I'll come to Casanova and kick your ass.
Speaker 1: And I said, that's why I sit with my back
Speaker 1: to the wall. Can I see bastards like you coming?
Speaker 1: I was. I was more confrontational in those days. I
Speaker 1: have since mellowed. And uh. And that was really interesting
Speaker 1: after that is Joe is texting me after that podcast
Speaker 1: and he's texting with Nugent at the same time, and
Speaker 1: I said, oh, if you're texting with him, can you
Speaker 1: ask him if he felt disrespected by that comment? Because
Speaker 1: It was the only thing that I actually had planned
Speaker 1: to say. If I'm going to listen to if I
Speaker 1: want to learn kick ass Detroit guitar licks, I'll listen
Speaker 1: to Ted Nugent. If I want to learn about chronic
Speaker 1: wasting disease and epidemiology, I'll listen to people like my
Speaker 1: co guest here, Brian Richards. And I asked, you don't
Speaker 1: ask him? He goes, no, he thought it was a
Speaker 1: great line. Well like, okay, well something that Ted NuGen
Speaker 1: and I agree on, so you know that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Um and so yeah, somebody called wow, I mean the
Speaker 1: fat boy thing. I was like, yeah, I know I
Speaker 1: could lose a few pounds, but um oh, I don't
Speaker 1: know who that is, but you would beat his ass.
Speaker 1: I had a pinched nerve my shoulder, and I wanted
Speaker 1: day I'm telling my kids like trying to dude. When
Speaker 1: Doug was like I I made Doug cross a little bit.
Speaker 1: You realize he could just crush the bones on his shoulder,
Speaker 1: like you could have driven his thumb out my armpit.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even pressing higher. Can I tell you a
Speaker 1: real quick story about Doug strength. We were loading up
Speaker 1: deer into my truck last fall from his milk shed
Speaker 1: down here and for me to haul deer into my
Speaker 1: truck first get in on tailgate and then got crawled
Speaker 1: into the truck and pull them all the way in.
Speaker 1: Doug stood behind the tailgate, picked these these are adult deer,
Speaker 1: picked him up like flower sackson him the truck but
Speaker 1: barely bending over. Just yeah, and my best days are
Speaker 1: behind me too. So you know, I'm not saying like, um,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying dog's gonna go like run down to
Speaker 1: town and back or something like that, but just in
Speaker 1: terms of like just uh, moments of power, you should
Speaker 1: come over to let that guy run. Unless that guy runs,
Speaker 1: Doug is gonna be a Actually, I think you and
Speaker 1: I've had a conversation before that guy and Doug in
Speaker 1: this room right here and shut door and locked it.
Speaker 1: That dude is not gonna be alive. But that's not true.
Speaker 1: I would sit down and have a reasonable conversation with
Speaker 1: him and asked him about his points, and then I
Speaker 1: would make my points and by the time it was
Speaker 1: all over with, we would be singing kumbaya. And that
Speaker 1: didn't work. If that didn't work, uh, so, like if
Speaker 1: you punch Doug. It doesn't matter. Hey, Doug ever done?
Speaker 1: M m A no, No. Around here, we don't call it,
Speaker 1: you know, UFC or an ask kicking contest the other
Speaker 1: the first time I went to UFC, I'm like watching
Speaker 1: and I'm going, that's an ask kicking contest where I'm
Speaker 1: from anyway. Uh okay, So see w D. Yeah, Karna,
Speaker 1: I we're talking about this earlier, and I said, you know,
Speaker 1: you need a title, a title for the c w
Speaker 1: D sections because it's really kind of getting, you know,
Speaker 1: so I think we should call it eat the Burger. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you're not here to tell You're not here to
Speaker 1: try to say that Stranglehold wasn't a work of genius.
Speaker 1: You're here to talk about c w D. Yeah, Yeah, No.
Speaker 1: I I as a stranglehold the hell of a song,
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna yeah anyway, Um,
Speaker 1: they eat the burger part. First of all, there's a
Speaker 1: difference between saying yeah, I'd eat the burger and being
Speaker 1: confronted with it. I know, but I want to carry
Speaker 1: the burger around, but I feel it here. Here's here's
Speaker 1: where you you can't you can't take it from here.
Speaker 1: State the stairs where you're your own worst enemy. Uh.
Speaker 1: I want to get a bunch of c w D
Speaker 1: burger to bring to present to people who say that
Speaker 1: they want to eat c w D burger. Should be
Speaker 1: a new show in the Mediator Network. Part of c
Speaker 1: w people. The c w D enforcers would These are
Speaker 1: the people who like, you're supposed to do this with
Speaker 1: your knife and burn your house down after you have
Speaker 1: the deer in there. They would be pissed if I
Speaker 1: had a little pelican box full of the burger and
Speaker 1: I moved around with it. Yeah, you couldn't take even
Speaker 1: though you got deer one and all over. Holy hell
Speaker 1: with c do you pining to put it in like radioactive?
Speaker 1: You see? This is the exaggeration that immediately happens. But
Speaker 1: you're right, you can't transport it state the state. Well
Speaker 1: that's not true. You can take meat state the state.
Speaker 1: It's it's uh and you find out when it's if
Speaker 1: it's CWD positive, it's it's up to you. And so
Speaker 1: I could legally carry the CWD meat. So and and
Speaker 1: that's a point that that I want to make. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying people shouldn't eat UH CWD positive meat. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: go ahead and make that decision, make it for yourself.
Speaker 1: But you're you're but that's not even what I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about. So you're saying that you don't buy it.
Speaker 1: I buy it that people would eat positive, asked Uncle
Speaker 1: Ted MotorCity Madman. If I had a c w D
Speaker 1: burger made with ten c W depositive animals ground into
Speaker 1: a burger, would you eat the burger? He said, I
Speaker 1: would eat the burger too. Dougie here Bubbles is saying
Speaker 1: he's not buying. Yeah, I'm saying, there's no what I
Speaker 1: think I can. I say one thing and I'll this
Speaker 1: is not my show, but you need to do with
Speaker 1: your test though. Let's put a picture above the animal,
Speaker 1: what the animal came from, and you show a picture
Speaker 1: of like the typical buck to get shot that like
Speaker 1: I've killed that had tested positis, seemed to would be depositive,
Speaker 1: looks healthy. You show some the pictures of deer CDBD
Speaker 1: later in the disease when they're getting wasted, down, their drooling,
Speaker 1: their heads rolling around. Put that picture on there, say
Speaker 1: would you eat meat off this deer? There's a whole
Speaker 1: different absolutely right, And in fact that's where the you
Speaker 1: better watch what you say about nugent fatso or whatever
Speaker 1: that guy said to me where that came from. I
Speaker 1: posted a video after that podcast of a deer that
Speaker 1: was brought in by my friend down the road, UM,
Speaker 1: that he pulled into his hunting spot, and here's this
Speaker 1: emaciated buck who had already dropped his antler's land there
Speaker 1: next to their field road jaking. You've seen the video
Speaker 1: and uh. And I posted that back up and said,
Speaker 1: I guess I should have kept some of this and
Speaker 1: turned it into hamburger. I understand some people would be
Speaker 1: interested in eating it. I got a lot of comments
Speaker 1: about it. I was like, well that was pretty yeah,
Speaker 1: and so you know that's when you became fat boy. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and you know again, I could stand loose some weight,
Speaker 1: so I don't I'll take it. Um. Yeah, that video
Speaker 1: is something. But that's that is absolutely so that what
Speaker 1: Pat saying is, that's exactly That's exactly the point. And
Speaker 1: making that choice for yourself is one thing. Making that
Speaker 1: choice unknowingly serving it to other people, And I would
Speaker 1: even encourage people to think long and hard about it
Speaker 1: before they would serve it to their kids. UM, explain
Speaker 1: why though because of the long trajectory of UH disease
Speaker 1: like a christ failed the yakubs variant um and the
Speaker 1: effect that it can have on people. UM even Ted
Speaker 1: admitted that scrape ees in sheep is probably the origin
Speaker 1: of it, and it transferred to whitetail deer. Theoretically that
Speaker 1: we know mad cow disease transferred from UH UH cattle
Speaker 1: to human beings. It's called a transferable sponge offforn en
Speaker 1: cephalopath The transferable is in the name so um out
Speaker 1: of a preponderance of caution and risk reduction, that is
Speaker 1: why I would do it. And in that long arc
Speaker 1: of time, I wouldn't feed. I mean I even sent
Speaker 1: you guys an email about the venison that we were
Speaker 1: going to have here, right, I mean it was a
Speaker 1: it was a fawn or a year of the year
Speaker 1: UM that had tested not c w D, not detected.
Speaker 1: I just felt in in UH being a truthful and
Speaker 1: conscious person to let you know this is the case,
Speaker 1: this is what this means. And he both said, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll eat what you eat, but I wouldn't. I don't
Speaker 1: want to make that decision for at least for your kids.
Speaker 1: So and that's I mean I'm not being hysterical here
Speaker 1: or anything. I think just being a decent person. So, UM,
Speaker 1: some of the other issues that I have with what
Speaker 1: with Ted Nugent said. One of the things that he said,
Speaker 1: I made notes, and I rarely make notes before I
Speaker 1: come out of your podcast. So one of the reasons
Speaker 1: you'd have trouble find and tended deer with CWD. We've
Speaker 1: had twelve on this farm. Um, And just for perspective,
Speaker 1: how how many acres uhres? And so we've had twelve
Speaker 1: and that's over a five year period of time that
Speaker 1: have tested positive. And as you fairly represented on that podcast,
Speaker 1: we were testing deer once they started letting us do that,
Speaker 1: and now we get every deer tested and we went
Speaker 1: from no c w D positive to c w D
Speaker 1: positive UM having CWD positive deer. This past year we
Speaker 1: had of the deer killed on the farm, which by
Speaker 1: the way, was forty deer, which was a record number
Speaker 1: of deer on this farm. UM, six out of ten
Speaker 1: bucks antler bucks tested positive. So our anecdotal evidence follows
Speaker 1: the data that testing shows. UM. Anyway, and we've had
Speaker 1: sick looking deer on the farm that we've not been
Speaker 1: able to shoot but we've had them on camera in
Speaker 1: the middle of the summer when they shouldn't be looking sick.
Speaker 1: Like some of the deer right now look unhealthy. I
Speaker 1: mean even something that we've seen as we've been out
Speaker 1: and about. But it's spring of the year and you
Speaker 1: know winter weekends and spring kills and so you know,
Speaker 1: dear don't do real well. Sometimes you can just see
Speaker 1: them out there just eating like crazy right now because
Speaker 1: they're they're building back up their reserves. So there's that.
Speaker 1: Another one was the vitality of the herd, and uh,
Speaker 1: there actually are four studies out there and you can
Speaker 1: look them up. I put put them. I sent them
Speaker 1: to you Karnt and they could be put in. The
Speaker 1: show notes that the Boone and Crockett Club, fairly reputable organization,
Speaker 1: UM did articles summarizing them that showed where populations were
Speaker 1: affected by h chronic wasting to see in four different areas. UM.
Speaker 1: So there's that that, I mean, it's actually population levels
Speaker 1: are being affected. But then also, UM, what we've seen
Speaker 1: or what's really been seeing south of us is that
Speaker 1: the age structure of the herd is being uh affected,
Speaker 1: so that there are a lot of deer still south
Speaker 1: of us. But what's happening is the older deer dying
Speaker 1: off and the herd is trending younger and so over time.
Speaker 1: That is a particular concern to people who UM like
Speaker 1: the hunt big giant bucks. UM Here in Richmond County,
Speaker 1: we're still killing big giant bucks. In Iowa County, they're
Speaker 1: still uh killing them, but they're killing fewer of them.
Speaker 1: UM Here in Richmond, northern especially northern Richmond County. UM,
Speaker 1: with our our prevalence level still be being pretty low,
Speaker 1: we're not seeing that that issue yet. But this past year, UM,
Speaker 1: we killed my friendship killed the five and a half
Speaker 1: year old buck and tested positive. And you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to say that. I think that deer was already
Speaker 1: showing the the UH signs, not physically but mentally, just
Speaker 1: by the way he was acting. Seeing him pre rut
Speaker 1: um standing in the yard like not concerned about anything.
Speaker 1: Five year old buck, it's usually pretty uh, pretty um wary. UM.
Speaker 1: So there are four studies we put that there UM
Speaker 1: at CWD ground zero, there's a still killing you know,
Speaker 1: some big old bucks, but sixty there are bucks are
Speaker 1: testing positive. I also sent that to you. UM. One
Speaker 1: of the other things that Ted said was that CWD
Speaker 1: peaked in Wisconsin, southwest Wisconsin eight years ago. Well wrong,
Speaker 1: Exactly the opice happened in two thousand and fourteen, which
Speaker 1: would have been eight years ago according to my calculations. UH.
Speaker 1: If exactly the opposite happened, we we incorporated the dear
Speaker 1: Trustee report at that period of time where we quit,
Speaker 1: we may took a more passive approach to chronic wasting disease,
Speaker 1: and we backed off on herd control and population control
Speaker 1: UM or at least the tools like earn a buck
Speaker 1: and longer seasons. And what we saw was a almost
Speaker 1: you know, straight up um increase in the UH in
Speaker 1: the number of CWD positives and the prevalence. So it
Speaker 1: was exactly the opposite of what he said that you
Speaker 1: know that CWD in our area, in this area of
Speaker 1: southwest Wisconsin UM changed quite a bit. UM. What else that? Okay?
Speaker 1: Do you contest that when they've done control, they've never
Speaker 1: they've never effectively done anything to control, like when they
Speaker 1: do the big shootouts and try to kill them all,
Speaker 1: that it doesn't have any impact on spread? Do I
Speaker 1: are there? Is that? Have you? Do you contest that point?
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad that Pat's here because we can
Speaker 1: talk about this. Wisconsin gave up due to political pressure.
Speaker 1: We were controlling the disease. Is part of what I'm
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that through herd reduction through opportunity um,
Speaker 1: we were controlling population, not just for disease control, by
Speaker 1: the way, but for also for habitat and ecosystem benefits.
Speaker 1: And when we stopped doing that, having extended seasons like
Speaker 1: the first time you came here, we were hunting during
Speaker 1: February um uh, and we had earn a buck that
Speaker 1: was effectively controlling population and actually increasing UM. At least
Speaker 1: my bow hunter friends were saying they were seeing a
Speaker 1: lot more big bucks on their feet during those periods
Speaker 1: of time. That once we abandoned that, that the control
Speaker 1: was working. And once we abandoned that, that's when the
Speaker 1: disease is taken off. Yeah. Yeah, they started compromising, backing
Speaker 1: off and stuff. The sud back off yet more, lost
Speaker 1: a lot of funding from the legislature because it's so
Speaker 1: much political pressure that den are lost a lot of
Speaker 1: I can't remember what the percentages were. There was a
Speaker 1: big drop off and testing and control. They no longer
Speaker 1: allowed them to go out and do targeted harvesting. Where
Speaker 1: you going at areas where you know you have CWD
Speaker 1: pound that area pretty hard. They were showing a pretty
Speaker 1: prett consistently that when they targeted an area, their number
Speaker 1: of percentage of deer shot with CTBT would go up
Speaker 1: compared to what the hunters are shooting. So when they
Speaker 1: could target it, say that, say that again, Yeah, targeted
Speaker 1: harvesting DANA were going They call it sharpshooting, but it's
Speaker 1: basically DN our employees operating at night with spotlights over
Speaker 1: a bait pile typically to try to thin the disease, right,
Speaker 1: they would target those areas. You know, they're smart people.
Speaker 1: They have logistical people that can look at percentages that
Speaker 1: what do they call it the Bayesian principles of statistical analysis,
Speaker 1: And they could figure out these areas that we're probably
Speaker 1: the highest incident areas and target them. So when they
Speaker 1: went and shot those areas, they shoot up markedly, number,
Speaker 1: markedly more sed depositive about the hunters in general were
Speaker 1: shooting during the regular season, so it was effective. What
Speaker 1: do they attribute that to? Understand? Just that they were
Speaker 1: able to go in and target just one little area
Speaker 1: rather than hunters are more spread out with them. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so they're focused. Efforts were turning up. We're killing more
Speaker 1: diseased animals than just people. And while and while all
Speaker 1: that was going on the first ten years, eight ten
Speaker 1: years of our problem here, they were you see the
Speaker 1: numbers on those graphs, it's kind of stayed down around
Speaker 1: two percent two percent. That's starting around two thousand eleven,
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, two thousand nine. Statistically, you could look
Speaker 1: at and see it was changing. Because it is a
Speaker 1: slow progressing disease. It's not like it's gonna you know,
Speaker 1: touch off right from the start. But but in ten
Speaker 1: years though, and they started backing off, there's numbers started climbing.
Speaker 1: Then they that's a classic wildlife disease term or um
Speaker 1: um problem. It starts us going up like a big,
Speaker 1: big uphill climb, just right up, especially among the older
Speaker 1: box year link box even but but even the dolls
Speaker 1: down in areas like this, they're seeing thirty percent of
Speaker 1: infection rates, you know, Southa here. So it's getting worse.
Speaker 1: But you know, these these folks who thought that the
Speaker 1: first ten years, because things weren't going up, everything's fine,
Speaker 1: that we're overblowing the UM. The concern was basically because
Speaker 1: we were controlling, you know, and as soon as you
Speaker 1: backed off, the problems started. And what I would add
Speaker 1: to that is if you go to Illinois and especially
Speaker 1: northern Illinois, Northern Illinois which is just shof of southern Wisconsin. UM,
Speaker 1: they have had controlled targeting construption down there on a
Speaker 1: continuing basis, and they have controlled the disease down there.
Speaker 1: They've controlled their percentages. That's what Montana is doing in
Speaker 1: the breakout areas, and they're using hunters to do it too,
Speaker 1: but they're they're going after him hard, Yeah, in areas
Speaker 1: where they see the disease bring up, just to try
Speaker 1: to like drop numbers. Yeah. It's been really interesting because
Speaker 1: I've heard from the one ranch manager out there and alarming,
Speaker 1: alarming numbers. And to me out there, it would be
Speaker 1: even more of a concern because I've never hunted in Montana.
Speaker 1: But um, it seems to me on the on the
Speaker 1: hierarchy of big game that white tailed deer kind of
Speaker 1: the bottom of the of the hierarchy, white tailed deer,
Speaker 1: mule deer, elk, moose, um, all which can be affected
Speaker 1: by c w D, but the white tailed deer are
Speaker 1: in isolated areas, mostly in the river bottoms for at
Speaker 1: least according to the well. I mean there's yeah, in
Speaker 1: a general way, so in the in the inner montane
Speaker 1: areas there in the valleys. Yeah, so there's an opportunity
Speaker 1: there to control them. I had a long conversation with
Speaker 1: this guy about it and uh to be able to
Speaker 1: control both the number of deer, because he has some
Speaker 1: of the same concerns I do, you know, damage to
Speaker 1: the ecosystem, damage to plants that are and trees and
Speaker 1: that they're trying to grow and they're trying to do
Speaker 1: good things in these river bottoms. Um uh, so you
Speaker 1: know those are those are the biggest things. I mean,
Speaker 1: there was, They're a handful of other things that you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of the conspiracy and uh the conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: about it, and the deflection that I listened to in
Speaker 1: that discussion that you know, the subject got changed pretty
Speaker 1: um uh pretty quickly, and I I just want to
Speaker 1: defend UH biologists and the people in the science. I
Speaker 1: can't think of any good reason that nine nine point
Speaker 1: nine of biologists in this country would be concerned about
Speaker 1: uh C W d R would be a part of
Speaker 1: a conspiracy to to spread this um or. But what
Speaker 1: is the conspiracy? Well, because I think that like here, uh,
Speaker 1: if you look at the discussion you're referring to, and
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to take you the task I'm saying,
Speaker 1: if you look at the discussion referred to, Ted said,
Speaker 1: c w D is a thing. It's a disease. Right
Speaker 1: at a time. There are people who questioned like that,
Speaker 1: like they questioned, it's the reality like that, it's not.
Speaker 1: They're like, there's there's no whole thing called that, right,
Speaker 1: it was it was a hoax. It's not what he said,
Speaker 1: It is a disease. Um He feels that it's a disease.
Speaker 1: Control efforts aren't warranted and aren't practical and aren't effective,
Speaker 1: and it'll sort of natur will sort itself out and
Speaker 1: I'd eat it if it's in fact it or not. Now,
Speaker 1: if there's other people that have that, they feel there's
Speaker 1: a conspiracy at play, and I know people who do,
Speaker 1: I don't know them person I know it is. What
Speaker 1: do they feel the conspiracy is the Uh? Well, Ted said,
Speaker 1: some of this stuff, the insurance companies, the you know,
Speaker 1: anti hunters, that there's all those are the kinds of
Speaker 1: reasons to discourage that it discourages people from hunting. M hmm.
Speaker 1: And that would that could be a part of it.
Speaker 1: The insurance companies would be like, yeah, it's serious, we
Speaker 1: should kill all the deers. No they don't claim Yeah,
Speaker 1: who knows. It's because like they're like, man, imagine the
Speaker 1: money we'd say, not needing to pay all these dear
Speaker 1: collisions cases. If we could build up this disease hoax
Speaker 1: that would inspire wildlife managers to kill those I can.
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. I have spoken to the
Speaker 1: uh our county biologists here and that that was asked
Speaker 1: to come down and receive something. And and then uh
Speaker 1: the guy who invited me that their regional director said hey,
Speaker 1: could you say a few words. And I look out
Speaker 1: on this group of I don't know forty or so
Speaker 1: biologists and they all are looking at me like, oh,
Speaker 1: here comes the c w D guy. Like these people
Speaker 1: didn't get into wildlife biology to spend the biggest part
Speaker 1: of their career on chronic wasting disease. There's no motivation
Speaker 1: for them to do that. There was, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea that is the bureaucracy doing it all those
Speaker 1: folks are a part of the bureaucracy, and I just
Speaker 1: I just want to push um. UM. I just want
Speaker 1: to push back on that UM. And so I just
Speaker 1: will always remember that group of biologists looking at me,
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I guess the last thing
Speaker 1: you guys want to talk about today is c w D.
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to talk about it. And so
Speaker 1: we talked about some of the other I talked about
Speaker 1: some of the other thing. UM. I do want to
Speaker 1: say though, that he and I agree on a few things,
Speaker 1: and one of them is that the under harvesting of
Speaker 1: deer can lead to an increase in chronic wasting disease.
Speaker 1: And that's absolutely the case. He talked about that a
Speaker 1: little bit. I was like, right on, Ted, you got that, UM,
Speaker 1: and so I agree with that. UM. The fact that
Speaker 1: he wanted a hundred tags so that he and his
Speaker 1: family can shoot those deer, I guess I have a
Speaker 1: little suggestion for him. That's maybe bringing some other people
Speaker 1: to shoot some of those deer, because quite honestly, I
Speaker 1: did that one year. I shot seven deer and taught
Speaker 1: to myself, I'm only going to use three of these.
Speaker 1: I'm a deer exterminator at this point. And I, UM,
Speaker 1: as you rightly said in that thing that you know,
Speaker 1: I love and admire these animals, I think as much
Speaker 1: as anybody. And I took that opportunity to then start
Speaker 1: inviting other people in uh to hunt so that they
Speaker 1: could have that experience and um, so they could learn
Speaker 1: about the conservation of the white tail, the other kind
Speaker 1: tradition of this property. And and that's one of the
Speaker 1: things that we've started to do. If you got to
Speaker 1: take guess how many people have hunted? How many people
Speaker 1: in two thousand twenty one hunted the Durham family farm.
Speaker 1: Can you believe that that's a lot? Jeez? Forty yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's fun. I mean part of what hunting. You
Speaker 1: let forty people hunt your fun? Yeah. Can you only
Speaker 1: imagine a spirit right here? Can you only imagine if
Speaker 1: that that attitude was infectious? I will say this about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So of those forty four actually, and I'm
Speaker 1: happy to say this, he invited a person for every
Speaker 1: ten acres. Yeah. Um, the opportunity opportunity. Hunting opportunity is
Speaker 1: really important. But let me say this, I have UM,
Speaker 1: I don't bow hunt. As as we've talked about before
Speaker 1: the day. Tell me bow hunting this for people who
Speaker 1: don't have enough to do. That's like such a that's
Speaker 1: like such a farmer mentality. Man means growing up just
Speaker 1: when he's like growing up when people were running like
Speaker 1: you know, I grew up around like a lot of
Speaker 1: small dairy operations like you know, and um the farmers
Speaker 1: man like they like knew about hunting and understood why
Speaker 1: you wanted to hunting. But just like you at that
Speaker 1: time late eighties, early nine is you could not find
Speaker 1: a farmer that hunted. It's weird or that the old
Speaker 1: So the guys that were like man, the old guys
Speaker 1: at that time, now they're kids hunting with a vengeance.
Speaker 1: Something happened generated But like the family patriarchs okay, who
Speaker 1: are coming out of like the real practical era. Those
Speaker 1: guys did not well around here, which was similar you know,
Speaker 1: small dairy farms and lots of them. The Saturday before
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving is opening day of gun season. Lots and lots
Speaker 1: of gun hunters. Everybody gun hunted, and you've been here
Speaker 1: for open gion. Even in these years, it sounds like
Speaker 1: it feels like Christmas sounds like a war. I think
Speaker 1: is what you said. And oh, yeah, you can't count
Speaker 1: the gun shots on opening morning. Yeah, and uh, well,
Speaker 1: Pat wrote an article about it, like a shot a
Speaker 1: second statistic. Pat well back in two thousand that Wisconsin
Speaker 1: was killing a deer every second during during during the
Speaker 1: gun season. If you were to take all the numbers,
Speaker 1: it most have happened the first two days, especially the
Speaker 1: first day. First day when you went and I cultually
Speaker 1: how many hours written that typical hun day. How many
Speaker 1: seconds then were and it was all those combined nine
Speaker 1: days than just did the multiplication, thought, and we're killing
Speaker 1: a deer second. Some years were killing one point three
Speaker 1: deer per second, some years are killing point seven deer
Speaker 1: per second. But that's why I read Pat Durkin's articles
Speaker 1: because it's kinma you don't get anywhere else. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to name names, but I was surprised
Speaker 1: to hear that. Uh. I was surprised to hear of
Speaker 1: a regional outdoor authority finds you two divisive pat statistics
Speaker 1: like that? What was devisive? Right? I mean I love
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Pat does not need to accentuate
Speaker 1: the titles. It was articles down a little bit. So
Speaker 1: that was one of the changes that I saw over time, right.
Speaker 1: And I remember talking with Mark Kenyon about this, is
Speaker 1: like he's like, yeah, there's this farmer that I know,
Speaker 1: lets me hunt his place. And he's just like he's
Speaker 1: just like talk to me for a little bit and
Speaker 1: then I go hunting. But it's seems like every year.
Speaker 1: That's what it is, um, because he doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: my it doesn't have time. It's for people who don't
Speaker 1: have enough to do. Um. And that's kind of where
Speaker 1: that all came from. When I was a kid that
Speaker 1: you didn't go and gun hunting was the thing that
Speaker 1: we got to do that in November because he kind
Speaker 1: of got the farm stuff done. Um. When I was
Speaker 1: melking cows here as a as a young man. UM,
Speaker 1: my deer hunting clothes were my barn clothes with an
Speaker 1: orange zip up over the top of it. Well read
Speaker 1: because I'm so old that we used to wear red too.
Speaker 1: But um, and boy, it was the best cover since
Speaker 1: there ever was smelling like a dairy kyle going out there. Um.
Speaker 1: And but seeing a deer was you know, it was unusual.
Speaker 1: It was unusual is the wrong word. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing four or five deer on opening day was like, wow,
Speaker 1: we did really well. And seeing one with an antler,
Speaker 1: I was like whoaly moly um. And so that's changed.
Speaker 1: And but you know, growing up, deer hunting was we
Speaker 1: would I mean, you know, there was a dairy farm there,
Speaker 1: there was a dairy farm up there, there's dairy farm
Speaker 1: over the here, all of these and they all had
Speaker 1: kids and they all had to get fed, right, and
Speaker 1: so deer drives were you know, a part of it too.
Speaker 1: By the afternoon of the second day of the gun season,
Speaker 1: the woods were getting shook up. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: didn't have a gun, you had a pot and a
Speaker 1: stick to walk through the woods and drive deer out.
Speaker 1: That's you know, it's so so there was this sort
Speaker 1: of this group mentality of hunting and and that certainly
Speaker 1: has changed. And the other thing is, you know, big
Speaker 1: giant bucks and the value of of um perceived or
Speaker 1: reel of big giant bucks are a part of it too, man.
Speaker 1: And I've been down that road, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we were doing all of that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff and UM and all kind of came to a
Speaker 1: head when I just got tired of um managing people
Speaker 1: and like there, well, that one was, you know, big
Speaker 1: enough for whatever I was telling you the story earlier,
Speaker 1: the night before opening day, I'd sit here on my
Speaker 1: laptop and click through, Well, let's let that one go.
Speaker 1: He could use another year. And my had to just
Speaker 1: sit back there and go shooter. Every buck that had
Speaker 1: an antler on it, he would say was a shooter.
Speaker 1: Didn't matter if that was three inches a shooter. UM
Speaker 1: and so um in what we're doing, what I'm doing
Speaker 1: here with inviting people in, and I do want to
Speaker 1: point this out. There's a lot of different ways that
Speaker 1: people are able to access private land, and one of
Speaker 1: them that's become pretty big around here is through leasing it.
Speaker 1: And UM, I leased this farm for twelve days to
Speaker 1: four guys for bow hunting because I don't I don't
Speaker 1: do it. UM. And they are or when they started
Speaker 1: five years ago, they were predominantly trophy hunters. I want,
Speaker 1: we want to come and kill a big giant buck.
Speaker 1: Now they have, um all killed a big giant buck here.
Speaker 1: But they've also all learned about chronic wasting disease. They've
Speaker 1: all learned about herd control. And they come here and
Speaker 1: they have days like we're having, or weekends like we're
Speaker 1: having where it's is this outing for them as a family.
Speaker 1: They it's a family, but they all live in different
Speaker 1: parts of the country. So they come here and here's
Speaker 1: the place where they come and stay. And of course
Speaker 1: I entertain them with my wild stories of of whatever.
Speaker 1: But um and uh. And after that, literally the day
Speaker 1: after those guys leave, I have friends who are coming
Speaker 1: in and hunting, and and and Jack, who's the head
Speaker 1: of that group. It's like, I want to get this clear.
Speaker 1: So we're paying X amount of dollars to come here
Speaker 1: and hunt, and we're happy to do it because they
Speaker 1: get first crack at them, right. I mean, they get
Speaker 1: to choose what days are going to hunt. But we're
Speaker 1: leaving tomorrow and other people are coming in. They're not
Speaker 1: paying anything. I just want to settle that in my mind.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, but you know what they are doing.
Speaker 1: This is the question that I will I'll ask anyone
Speaker 1: who gets the opportunity to hunt here, what is your
Speaker 1: contribution to conservation? What are you doing for conservation? Um
Speaker 1: and uh. In some cases that can get you know,
Speaker 1: can get pretty complicated. But one of the fellas that
Speaker 1: hunt with me here now UM has volunteered for the
Speaker 1: Wisconsin Conservation Congress. UM. He's actually now the b h
Speaker 1: A R three coordinator for the state of Wisconsin. UM
Speaker 1: and so those are the kinds of contributions that that
Speaker 1: he makes. And he gets the opportunity to hunt this place,
Speaker 1: and he also happens to come here and help with
Speaker 1: whatever I need, you know, help with UM and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, people get invited here. It's sort of like uh,
Speaker 1: pets of season ticket holder of the green Bay package,
Speaker 1: but it's sort of like getting green Bay packer tickets
Speaker 1: season tickets. There's this really long list people ask every year. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I can't let everyone who UM would like to come
Speaker 1: hunt here hunt here, but I do maintain a list,
Speaker 1: and every year a couple of people, you know, get
Speaker 1: the opportunity to come here and hunt. And so I
Speaker 1: share this place UM with people based on their willingness
Speaker 1: to make a contribution to conservation. And now we've started
Speaker 1: this idea called sharing the Land, which we're pitching to
Speaker 1: landowners to have that same mentality of well, let's share
Speaker 1: this place UM and and because going forward, that's the
Speaker 1: kind of thing that is going to benefit conservation, it's
Speaker 1: going to benefit the animals that are part of it,
Speaker 1: and it's going to benefit the land that it's that's
Speaker 1: happening on, Doug, can you talk about sharing the land
Speaker 1: a bit? So yeah, yeah, yeah, layoff details, man, all right,
Speaker 1: well I'll lay out the details of sharing the land.
Speaker 1: So Um, as I said, I sort of had this
Speaker 1: uh revelation epiphany whatever about how I having. Allowing people
Speaker 1: to hunt here has always been a part of of
Speaker 1: our our tradition, but how you make those decisions is
Speaker 1: sort of where it came up. Um Ela Leopold Um.
Speaker 1: About the same time he bought the shack and the farm,
Speaker 1: you know, the famous thing where he wrote San Connie Almanac,
Speaker 1: UM started working with a group of farmers down in
Speaker 1: this area called Riley, where he and his buddies would
Speaker 1: go out there and make improvements to a property, conservation
Speaker 1: improvements to a property. And UM, in return they made
Speaker 1: that they did the work of the they brought material in,
Speaker 1: uh improve the habitat, and in return they got uh
Speaker 1: actually exclusive access to that or uh I don't mean
Speaker 1: exclusive like no one else could hunt it, but they
Speaker 1: they got permission to hunt that property. Seemed like a
Speaker 1: really good idea. UM. Eventually, UM died off one because
Speaker 1: Leopold died, but to a little thing called World War
Speaker 1: two was in there. And and then really in those days,
Speaker 1: access wasn't really a problem. He literally could knock on
Speaker 1: doors around here and people allow access. UM. And so
Speaker 1: you know, a few years ago I started thinking about
Speaker 1: that more and how UM the experience that as I've
Speaker 1: had of of well, who how do I decide who
Speaker 1: gets to hunt here? And this thing came the idea of, UM,
Speaker 1: what's your contribution to conservation? So we've now formed up.
Speaker 1: There's a website called Sharing the Land dot com and we're, uh,
Speaker 1: it's in its infancy. UM. COVID kind of got in
Speaker 1: the way of of doing some of the some of
Speaker 1: the things, but UM, there's a group of people that
Speaker 1: hunt this property. And we're using this to prove the
Speaker 1: concept that we have an agreement in place. UM. We
Speaker 1: want people to UM put together a conservation resume. If
Speaker 1: you go on Sharing the Land dot com, you can
Speaker 1: find a conservation resume builder there UM where you explain
Speaker 1: who you are UM as a someone who's interested in
Speaker 1: conservation and hunting. The landowners in tune, in turn, are
Speaker 1: also filling up, filling out a thing called a cooperating
Speaker 1: land profile, and in there they say, here are the
Speaker 1: here's here's my place, here are some of the things
Speaker 1: I need help with, UM, and here's what I have
Speaker 1: that I can offer in return. So it sort of
Speaker 1: takes away that door knocking thing UM. That or letters sending,
Speaker 1: because honestly, I get letters and I look at them
Speaker 1: and they get added to the list. UM. But it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a little more cohesive that way. And right
Speaker 1: now we're working on getting UM a number of landowners
Speaker 1: in southwest Wisconsin. Looks like we'll have six by the
Speaker 1: end of the year. UM. We're working with some folks
Speaker 1: in northeast Iowa who are really interested in it UM
Speaker 1: and UM hopefully some in South Dakota. UM. And the
Speaker 1: ideas that we're knocking down those barriers between lando ns
Speaker 1: and access seekers. And in both cases, people are sort
Speaker 1: of presenting themselves as they are. Is that big chore
Speaker 1: list you got on that chalkboard in the mud room,
Speaker 1: there is that the chore list for the people. That's yes,
Speaker 1: that is a part of it. And most of that
Speaker 1: stuff is pretty straightforward. We need limbs taken off of
Speaker 1: my pine trees up there, um, there's some Justice centeral
Speaker 1: general clean up around here. You know the kids help me,
Speaker 1: your kids, you know they are in their keep. They
Speaker 1: came out here and help me with the mushroom. Like
Speaker 1: like timberstand improvement, standing projects, ye, timberstand improvement, Invasive species
Speaker 1: control um uh man, there's little carpentry projects if you
Speaker 1: have that kind of skills. One of my guys at
Speaker 1: him UM has come out here and done uh masonry
Speaker 1: work on the on the barn. He's a mason by trade.
Speaker 1: He's like, well, okay, I can fix that, can talk
Speaker 1: point those rocks that you know, the wild foundation for
Speaker 1: you and stuff. Well, what a great thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're concerned about the about the barn being here another
Speaker 1: hundred years. And he's like to take care of that
Speaker 1: for you and that you know that those are the
Speaker 1: kinds of things and you know you can walk around here. Hell,
Speaker 1: you can walk around and make a list of another
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen things. Um. The other part of it
Speaker 1: is this, I've been talking to some of the groups
Speaker 1: that offer conservation training, right, so like the Elder Leopold Foundation,
Speaker 1: the Wisconsin Woodland Owners Association, u u W Extension UM
Speaker 1: and UH one of the things that they offer these
Speaker 1: landowner days where landowners go and learn about their land
Speaker 1: and the invasive species control, timberstand improvement and all of that.
Speaker 1: And you go to those things and it's just all
Speaker 1: landowners and they're like, yeah, well who do I, Who
Speaker 1: do I get to do this work? And so what
Speaker 1: our plan is to do is to encourage access seekers
Speaker 1: to also go to those things and learn about conservation practices,
Speaker 1: to learn about timberstand improvement, to learn about invasive species
Speaker 1: can roll um and then be able to offer those
Speaker 1: very specific things to a landowner in exchange for the
Speaker 1: opportunity to to access their property not just for hunting,
Speaker 1: but for foraging and help to go out for a
Speaker 1: walk or you know, for skiing, for camping and those
Speaker 1: sort of things. So you know, there's plenty of opportunity
Speaker 1: out there to lease property or to do uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a pay for play but um and I know how
Speaker 1: that works. And even some of the voluntary public access
Speaker 1: programs and that sort of thing, well you know how
Speaker 1: that works. The landowner gets paid by the government to
Speaker 1: open their land up for access. Um. Some of them
Speaker 1: have some habitat improvement to it. But the people who
Speaker 1: are accessing aren't doing that. They're probably paying money to
Speaker 1: uh or they're being paid to do habitat improvements. So
Speaker 1: then they have to get somebody to do that work.
Speaker 1: And they're they're they're hiring somebody. So you know, with
Speaker 1: the with the paper play thing, we know what the
Speaker 1: landowners getting out of it, and we know what the
Speaker 1: access seekers getting out of it. But my question is
Speaker 1: what's the land getting out of that? So let's tie
Speaker 1: all those things together. So, um, the people who get
Speaker 1: invited here are one thing. People who get to continue
Speaker 1: to come back here. Um. And there's it's a there's
Speaker 1: a relationship develops, right, there's a trust that develops and
Speaker 1: um uh and this is a way of doing you know,
Speaker 1: of helping people develop that in a very specific way
Speaker 1: without as much uh as much unknown about it. Um
Speaker 1: you know you know how Yeah, I was gonna come
Speaker 1: home this year. Yeah. Do you think that we could
Speaker 1: have him go up in the bunk area and try
Speaker 1: to find all my kids socks? Put on the list.
Speaker 1: Let me put that on the find Steve's kids ship
Speaker 1: and mail to the great thing about having a list
Speaker 1: like that is when you take get to take a
Speaker 1: line and put it through it. You know, That's one
Speaker 1: of the things about lists is just like you know,
Speaker 1: crossing stuff off of the list, because there's nothing worse
Speaker 1: than having a list that nothing ever gets marked off.
Speaker 1: And so what's really cool is this past year I
Speaker 1: invited um, uh several you know, a bunch of new
Speaker 1: people um to come and and uh and hunt and
Speaker 1: and folks, I know I got. I mean, I literally
Speaker 1: have a list of over a hundred and fifty people
Speaker 1: who have asked for permission to hunt here. Um And
Speaker 1: as I said, they come up. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I know, I keep track of it. It's I just
Speaker 1: get if you're writing them down. It doesn't surprise me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just feel that UM thing.
Speaker 1: And you know why, I mean, people reach out to me.
Speaker 1: I try to answer people who reach out to me.
Speaker 1: And it's because I reached out to a guy once
Speaker 1: twelve thirteen years ago and he wrote me back. So
Speaker 1: that's you know, sort of carries forward. But I've been
Speaker 1: you know, that's how me and dog became buddies. Email, right,
Speaker 1: he wrote me, Yeah, yeah, he reached back out and
Speaker 1: I didn't get many him. I thought it was because
Speaker 1: it was you know, so heartfelt and touching. Uh it
Speaker 1: was one but uh yeah, and he you know, and
Speaker 1: we had this exchange and then my favorite email I
Speaker 1: ever got from Steves when I said, uh, well, this
Speaker 1: has been really great because we were like pen pals
Speaker 1: there for several months, you know, or email pals, and um,
Speaker 1: I would answer quickly and it would take him a
Speaker 1: while to get back to me, but um. And then
Speaker 1: I said, wow, this has been great. Um, if you
Speaker 1: ever want to deer hunt in southwest Wisconsin, I'd welcome
Speaker 1: you at the farm. And the response was really question
Speaker 1: mark when question and we figured it out I picked
Speaker 1: up at the airport on New Year's Day in two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. Yeah, so I mean really born, you know,
Speaker 1: get some credit for this whole thing too, sort of
Speaker 1: born from that year before I had invited pad out
Speaker 1: A because he and I had been arguing, So are
Speaker 1: you know ours is based on this, uh my admiration
Speaker 1: for your writing. And in the case of Pat, I
Speaker 1: actually really had always admired his articles too, but then
Speaker 1: he got something wrong and that's when I decided to
Speaker 1: write to him and I corrected him and and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I never thought about it like that, and
Speaker 1: then we ended up getting together. So to me, it's
Speaker 1: it's interesting. I'm always interested in people who are interesting,
Speaker 1: and Yeah, is certainly one of those people. When I
Speaker 1: listened to your podcast and growing up in the period
Speaker 1: of time that I did, and knowing what what happened
Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia and with your people and then what
Speaker 1: you went through to get here, and and you know,
Speaker 1: just your sort of cheeriness and and telling your story
Speaker 1: and it was just it was wonderful and I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to meet that guy at Steve Golls. I
Speaker 1: think I could arrange that. Yeah, it's fantastic so that
Speaker 1: you know, you can go on sharing the lot and
Speaker 1: dot com and take a look at what we're doing
Speaker 1: and understand that two is our year of of you know,
Speaker 1: continuing to build UM. Landowners. I would say that are
Speaker 1: the harder group to reach, although it's been really gratifying.
Speaker 1: We were hoping to, you know, have like you know,
Speaker 1: one and ten persons who reached out to us be
Speaker 1: a landowner, and it's been more like yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: what's been really cool is like consulting Forrester that works
Speaker 1: for me. When he got the email about inviting him
Speaker 1: out here because he happens to be a private landowner
Speaker 1: to come to our kickoff party. He called me and
Speaker 1: he said, Hey, our chapter of Wisconsin woodland Owners Associations
Speaker 1: had a couple of bad years of getting together because
Speaker 1: of covid um and we haven't really had an event.
Speaker 1: Could I invite more people from our chapter? And I'm like, yes,
Speaker 1: I just need to know if they're coming. And then
Speaker 1: the other part of it is he said, I have
Speaker 1: all kinds of ants, a number of clients I should
Speaker 1: say not all kinds of number of clients who don't hunt,
Speaker 1: but who need these kinds of things done on on
Speaker 1: their property. So if you're someone who's looking for access
Speaker 1: on a property, um, you know, bone up on your
Speaker 1: conservation skills. You know, learn what invasive species are and
Speaker 1: how to control them, and learn about things like timber
Speaker 1: stand improvement and um, you know, if you learn some
Speaker 1: carpentering around here, you can learn how to build gates
Speaker 1: that open and clothes on their own Steve satisfaction, um
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, just there's just a ton of
Speaker 1: things to do and and there's a lot of information
Speaker 1: out there for it. But we want to become a
Speaker 1: central place for that. Doug your great American. Well, that's
Speaker 1: nice of you to say. I mean that, well, I
Speaker 1: I know you do. Doug Blush, it's great American. Well,
Speaker 1: great Casanopian doing what I can with what I've got,
Speaker 1: not Cassanova kas That sounds so exotic, doesn't so people
Speaker 1: that want I think probably, I don't know at this point,
Speaker 1: you probably don't need a bunch more dudes calling you
Speaker 1: who want to do the work you need you need, uh, landowners,
Speaker 1: if you've got property, what's too small? I think that's
Speaker 1: really up to them. Um, you know, yeah, forty or
Speaker 1: an eighty or something like that. You got a forty
Speaker 1: and you wanna you know, you're not interrupt, You don't
Speaker 1: need the you're not looking for, like the couple thousand
Speaker 1: bucks or whatever. You got stuff you want done to
Speaker 1: the land. You look out there and you're like, sound
Speaker 1: a bit calls weeds? Yeah, or man would be sweet
Speaker 1: as someone could go and thin that out. Or I've
Speaker 1: always wanted to plan a whatever the list landowners. It's
Speaker 1: so interesting to me because I've done land management consulting
Speaker 1: and contracting for so long, and I've I've worked with
Speaker 1: a lot of land new landowners and after about their
Speaker 1: first year, the first that it seems like the most
Speaker 1: common thing they say is man owning a piece of
Speaker 1: properties a lot of work, and like, well, would you
Speaker 1: like to get a little help with that, here's how
Speaker 1: you do that. And there's plenty of that going there's
Speaker 1: a lot of that going on out there. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think, but this gives the template for people who
Speaker 1: haven't spent their whole life immersed in it. That's exactly right,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. Um. And you can get like, if
Speaker 1: you're open to having your place hunted, you'd like to
Speaker 1: have some projects, some conservation projects done on your place
Speaker 1: or whatever. And that's the kind of human interaction relationship
Speaker 1: that is more appealing to you. You can find ways
Speaker 1: to get paired up with people at it, individuals who
Speaker 1: have laid out their credentials, and you can have a
Speaker 1: sort of negotiated Um, they'll partici, they'll work on the
Speaker 1: land with your goals in mine in exchange to do
Speaker 1: a little hunt. Yeah, and access it in any way,
Speaker 1: um and whatever you agree with. And every landowner can
Speaker 1: decide how much for how little of that that they're
Speaker 1: they're willing to to do. But it's important for landowners
Speaker 1: to also be thoughtful and fair about it, you know.
Speaker 1: M hmm. So thanks for letting me talk about that.
Speaker 1: But it's been my theme, you know, sharing the land
Speaker 1: dot com at this point, it is a dot com, yeah,
Speaker 1: not dot org, right, sharing the land dot com. Shoot
Speaker 1: dug a note, get get out of some dude is
Speaker 1: on that list. It's just like some of bitch that's
Speaker 1: gotten sucked off by yeah yang Yeah. I mean I'm
Speaker 1: telling you this. There is not there's no unionization of decision,
Speaker 1: just that. It's just not the next guy moves up.
Speaker 1: It's like completely at my whim. I will say sorry,
Speaker 1: but all right, thanks a lot, uh, thank you, Patrick Durgan,
Speaker 1: thank you. You've got good articles coming up for me either,
Speaker 1: always good. Tell me the next me with the next thing. Um,
Speaker 1: let's see the next one. I just turned in one
Speaker 1: last week on and you can sell pan fish in
Speaker 1: Vermont that you can sell pan fish flats. You can
Speaker 1: send pan fish flas. It's on the meat eater dot
Speaker 1: com right now. How did that come into play? Were
Speaker 1: there folks who wanted to make a living off that?
Speaker 1: Or what's is this like the first game, you know,
Speaker 1: the first fish that you can sell. It's the only
Speaker 1: state in the country that we know of. I think
Speaker 1: there might be one little spot Tennessee where during the
Speaker 1: spring they can sell cropp ease cropy flights. But Vermont
Speaker 1: it's basically they go to bait shops bringing bringing the
Speaker 1: fish they don't want and drop off the meat and
Speaker 1: drop or drop off the fish and that's you know,
Speaker 1: it's been going on for forever. Basically in the article,
Speaker 1: I gotta go check it out. But what what's the
Speaker 1: pound of wild caught blue gill flas? Oh god, these days?
Speaker 1: Um think showed that the article that showed I showed
Speaker 1: in the article that the one fish if you can
Speaker 1: do it, if you can catch it and sell it
Speaker 1: in Vermont, the fish to do it, it's croppy. That
Speaker 1: one is way more expensive than gets a lot more
Speaker 1: money than than like um salmon does. Basically, Jill, last year,
Speaker 1: what was funny as hell is? Uh speaking crop eas
Speaker 1: and turkeys and Doug made me think of this. The
Speaker 1: kids tagged out so quick on youth season. Let me
Speaker 1: go up to the pond up there. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: caught a couple of croppies and Austin not hook into
Speaker 1: like I don't even know what dragging the boat around
Speaker 1: huge fish, and I'm just a tussling inviting. The kids
Speaker 1: are all excited. You know what comes up? Snag a
Speaker 1: big snapper by the tails. Wow. I mean, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the last thing I was like
Speaker 1: that someone like throw some you know, eighty pound flathead
Speaker 1: and the ducks pond unbeknownst to him, Like it just
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense what this thing was between river
Speaker 1: otters and make and not the big snapper. Dude, it
Speaker 1: was so funny, man, Okay, so tell me so the
Speaker 1: other one. Yeah, that the article Steve that's got no
Speaker 1: writing about. In Vermont from March through you're allowed to
Speaker 1: shoot northern pike and quite a few other fish. You know,
Speaker 1: they call him cullfish with a with a firearm. So
Speaker 1: guys will sit out and he's flooded uning areas and
Speaker 1: it goes back into their history, the Revolutionary War period basically.
Speaker 1: And it's not many people doing it, but they slip
Speaker 1: in trees, some just weighed around, and you can shoot
Speaker 1: him with any gun you want, muzzleloader, handgun, caliber SI
Speaker 1: rigby if you want to, or whether it be I mean, dude,
Speaker 1: my kid, this would be like the thing that he
Speaker 1: found most interesting all the planet. Yeah, what's funny. I
Speaker 1: would satisfy like everything he's interested in, But shooting guns
Speaker 1: and the whole thing about what it takes because they
Speaker 1: don't shoot the fish. They don't aim to shoot in
Speaker 1: the head or in the in the vitals. They shoot
Speaker 1: off the side underneath it the concussion. So I got
Speaker 1: into the whole thing about what, why, why, or why
Speaker 1: vibration through water is so deadly. So I got a
Speaker 1: little bit of that in the article too. Good man,
Speaker 1: this story starts making great, but it's just it's just
Speaker 1: mentioned your kiddle. What's fascinating about they've been thinking now
Speaker 1: that they've tried, and the more time to kill the
Speaker 1: season off out in Vermont, you know, the fishing game
Speaker 1: department the season and they don't like it. They don't
Speaker 1: They just would like it to be done with because
Speaker 1: it's just it's just shoot sends They think it sends
Speaker 1: the wrong message. You know, you're shooting in the water,
Speaker 1: and you teach everyone don't shoot in the water, while
Speaker 1: here you're shooting in the water. But I would think
Speaker 1: the message it would send is that that you can
Speaker 1: shoot fish in the water. Like I feel that that's
Speaker 1: the message, the wrong message, for the message that you
Speaker 1: can shoot fish in the water. But it was what
Speaker 1: I found. I think, um, I think that many love
Speaker 1: the article with this whole point was that for for
Speaker 1: decades or you know, for many decades, they kept thinking
Speaker 1: this is not die out. You know, back when they
Speaker 1: first read about when I first found articles about from
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies and early eighties, they're talking about the
Speaker 1: current generation when they age out, this will go with them.
Speaker 1: They think it's a dying activity. Well, here we are
Speaker 1: fifty years later, and now I'm the old guys. Might
Speaker 1: people my age of the old guys doing it, but
Speaker 1: they're what they're finding is that there's a young kids.
Speaker 1: What they need to do is find out about it.
Speaker 1: Any kid in America with the gun and said, oh,
Speaker 1: if you feel like it and you want to wander
Speaker 1: around out there in the light at night, you see
Speaker 1: a fish, go ahead and shoot it. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: the kid. So it's basically a few kids doing it,
Speaker 1: and then then they then they kind of go away
Speaker 1: for a long time. Then late in life becomes a
Speaker 1: thing like well my grandfather could do this, his grandfather
Speaker 1: could do it. We're gonna keep doing it and it
Speaker 1: becomes a rights issue. And this one guy I talked to,
Speaker 1: an interviewed for the article, pointed out that so, you know,
Speaker 1: in recent decades we've had a big, big movement in
Speaker 1: our country. I have a constitutional right to hunt and
Speaker 1: fish in Wisconsin, the constitutional right the hunt, whatever state
Speaker 1: it might be, he says, Vermont put that in their
Speaker 1: constitution in like seventeen ninety whenever it was they formed
Speaker 1: the state constitution, and in Vermont it was a right
Speaker 1: to hunting fish was part of their constitution. So anytime
Speaker 1: you mess with that, now you're messing with your history.
Speaker 1: And it gets real contentious when they try to get
Speaker 1: rid of rid of anything. So good for them. Great story,
Speaker 1: that's great, alright. Check out Durgan's articles the Meat dot Com,
Speaker 1: check out Yeah Yang, he'll be hearing a gun show
Speaker 1: and Dougs Farm. Yeah thanks everybody. Yeah,