WEBVTT - Anita Hill Isn't Sure There Would Have Even Been a Nomination Today 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.720 Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.520 Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:15.120 bring you the most important, noteworthy and useful interviews for 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.840 you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.720 or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:31.320 Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Well, 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:36.360 we are broadcasting live from the Bloomberg look Ahead Conference 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.720 You're Ahead, which we are having a hosting here in 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.199 our Bloomberg headquarters in New York and pim you know, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:48.960 one conversation that is paramount this year is UH corporate 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:54.040 governance and the the amount that secial harassment and other 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.840 types of activities are kind of hindering corporate growth. And 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.240 this is something that obviously has been brought to the 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.760 foreg part by Harvey Weinstein and the increasing allegations for 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.759 a number of different actresses about his unwanted approaches of them, 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.240 and UH and other other people as well have been 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.840 accused of similar attributes, and so this is something that 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.280 is actually coming to the four as a corporate issue 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.399 and one that is important more than it has in 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.360 a long time. Well, corporate issue, yes, and the financial 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.440 issue for those corporations. And you know, just to make 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.680 clear that there are a variety of different, uh sort 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.679 of remedies that exist. And in the federal in the 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.440 government sphere, you think that there would be a process 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.720 that would allow that kind of uh what my restitution 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.880 or payment for this, but it's not. So. Federal workers 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.600 have a cap on the amount. And let's say you're 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.080 able to prove sexual harassment, there is a cap on 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.200 the punitive and compensatory damages. They're based on the size 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.840 of the company. And so if you are doing business 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.920 with the government, you are let's say, only have between 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.320 fifteen and a hundred employees. You only the campus fifty. 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:10.600 So the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has a very different 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.520 set of rules for almost every different business. You know, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.000 I have to say, uh, Sam our producer, and I 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.440 were talking about this and one thing that really struck 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.440 us is, you know, in a society where there's so 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.679 much money and time spent putting in creating a sense 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.560 of beauty for women that's sort of flaunce their their 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.840 sort of sexual attributes. How that sort of plays into 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.239 this whole debate, and there has been no one who 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:40.400 has been more at the forefront of this entire debate 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.920 than Anita Hill, who is currently a professor of Law, 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.200 public policy, and Women's Studies at the hell Are Graduate 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.280 School of Policy and Management at Brandise University in Washington, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.600 d C. Of course, she is known and became a 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.600 national figure in one when she accused US Supreme Court 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.400 nominee Clarence Thomas for boss at the United States Department 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.960 of Education UH and Equal Opportunity Employment Opportunity Commission of 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.240 sexual harassment. And she joins US here today. UM. Professor Hill, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.120 thank you so much for joining us. UM. Do you 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.320 think that things have gotten better since as far as 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:19.760 people being receptive to accusations of sexual harassment and discussing 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.920 them in an open way? I do think things have 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.040 gotten better. I think that the latest media attention UH 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.120 is much better now. I think people are really pondering 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:35.880 women's experiences differently now. UH. They've stopped asking a question, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.560 why didn't you come forward? And they're starting to really 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.400 examine the behavior and the structures that in people who 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.600 keep the behavior in place. So I think this is 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:50.880 an improved conversation, UM, and we just need to take 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.120 those next steps there in the problem. What are some 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:59.360 of those next steps? Is it uh, recognizing the potential 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.279 finance liability, let's say, in the corporate setting, a reputational liability, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.360 and obviously all those things play into it, But what 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.839 would you see as some of the next steps. Well, 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.080 one of the things that I think companies ought to 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.480 do is to really assess their workplaces. There are a 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:16.760 combination of things that need to be done in order 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.200 to make change, and we know that from just history 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.080 and and the whole history of social change in this country. UM. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.360 Some of the things that are structural, uh in terms 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.760 of policies and procedures within the company, and some have 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.960 to do with changing the culture of certain companies, cultures 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.000 that actually in fact encourage the behavior, and then other 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:43.279 cultural aspects that sort of minimize the behavior and say, well, 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.760 it's not really that bad or anything that we need 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.120 to be concerned about. And of course there's always the 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.200 economic interests that a business has, and I know that 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.960 that's what drives businesses. But the that harassment does cost. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:02.240 It costs business in terms of payments or people who 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.760 are asked, but it also costs in terms of the 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:09.320 human resources. UM. And that's something that companies need to 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.160 take into account. But I also like to flip the 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.919 questions sometimes, and I said and say, you know what, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:19.320 how are you profiting from harassment? How what good? There's 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.520 what benefit do you get as a company from having 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.279 a culture that is harassing when instead what you should 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:30.040 be looking for is making sure that people are judged 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.799 on their merit and that they can perform to their fullest. 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.839 You know, sometimes when sexual harassment is in the news, 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.600 you start getting a lot of backlash where uh, you know, 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.200 men in particular will say, well, does that mean that 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.520 no man can never hit on a woman, or that 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.960 you know, if a woman is wearing uh, you know, 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.080 if she's putting herself together in a certain way and 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.560 you can't comment on it, what's her response to that? Well, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:54.800 I think one of the things that I have her 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.040 very often is, you know, even in ninety one, when 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.039 people said, well, now we have to think about what 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.400 we say, well, there's no danger in thinking about what 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.360 you say. Oh, in fact, we should all be quite thoughtful, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.920 especially now that we know, um what the problem is 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:16.320 that these are situations that women are finding themselves in, 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:18.120 and some of them are called workers who are men 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.039 find themselves and then make them uncomfortable that really have 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.480 no place in the workplace. It's time out for people saying, oh, well, 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.480 you know we used to be able to do this. Well, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.400 it's a new day. And women have spoken that they 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.440 find it offensive. You know, if women don't find it offensive, 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.760 then you know, that's fine, But that doesn't mean that 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.320 you should continue and keep pushing the issue when we 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.080 have been put on you've been putting people on notice 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:46.480 that this is a problem in the workplace and it's 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.200 it's hindering our abilities to do our job. Does it 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.240 also speak to the sort of lack of just good 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.080 manners and and you know, the way you treat other people, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.359 because this seems to be an shoot not just about 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.480 whether someone wants to have a sexual relationship or not. 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.640 It's about power, and it's about the power that one 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.000 person has over another person, and it just manifests itself 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:16.840 in this way. But harassment doesn't necessarily mean sexual harassment. Well, 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.640 there's sex based harassment that can happen on any you know, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.760 to any number of people. It's a sexual harassment that 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.840 we're talking about. It's been in the news lately. But 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:33.880 you're absolutely right um. This typically can manifest itself UM 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.560 in different forms depending on the person who is exhibiting 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.000 it and the person who they talked to. So it 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.400 can harassment can come in the form of racist harassment, 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.960 It can come in form a homophobic harassment. It can 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.480 come in the form of all kinds of of of 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:56.360 language that is inappropriate and that is offensive and that 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:59.720 really has no benefit, gives no benefit to the work. 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:05.240 But I you know, it is at some point a 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:11.160 level on the level of civility. How much civility are 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.320 we going to try to promote in a workplace? But 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:18.040 there is something that is very special and peculiar about 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:22.120 sexual harassment when you look at the numbers, and they range, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.080 but some of the numbers suggested as many as forty 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.040 two fifty percent of the limit in a workforce of 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:32.840 being harassed sexually harassed. So we know that this is 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.880 a peculiar problem, but there are variations on the thing. Well, 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.960 and we talk about big corporations, and we talk about Hollywood. Uh, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.000 what about government? Right? I mean, we're hearing an increasing 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:49.720 amount about allegations with the government. President Trump was caught 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:53.880 on tape talking about doing whatever he wanted, Uh, with people. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.200 I mean, do you get the sense that, first of all, 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.400 Clarence Thomas would be on Supreme Court today had he 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.320 faced the same kind of UH challenges as he did 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:07.559 back in I'm not sure that there would have been 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.960 a nomination that I would have could have gone forward 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.440 had there been allegations of harassment. I'm not sure we 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.520 would have even had the hearing, That's what I'm saying. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.839 So you can't go back and say in time and say, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:25.439 wouldn't it have happened if X, Because I mean, we 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.560 wouldn't be talking about it if that hearing hadn't occurred. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.160 But do you think that there are procedures that are 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.960 appropriate and adequate in Congress right now and just in 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.440 general and throughout Washington to prevent this? Well, I think 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:43.640 that if if there was a nominee, uh, my complaint 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:49.040 or my statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee came before 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.920 the vote and before the hearing and which I testified, 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.000 I think that the procedure would be to take that 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.920 kind of complaint very seriously before pushed a nomination through. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.560 So I think we're in a different place now. Uh. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.800 The presumption at that point was always either that it 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:14.559 didn't happen or that it didn't matter and the harassment. 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.280 And I don't think that we're willing to make that 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.400 bold a statement right now about what's going on in 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.280 the workplace that we all live in. A lot of 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.760 times the conversation becomes broad and it goes under the 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.800 heading of corporate governance. Do you think it'd be valuable 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:38.320 to put an actual grade or rape me? Companies that pollute, 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:43.000 they might get a grade. Companies that don't enforce a 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:47.640 sexual harassment free environment for people, they would get a grade. 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.200 Do you think that would get any traction in terms 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:53.480 of investors, Because as you said, you have a workforce 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.640 that feels harassed in any way, you're not gonna be 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.760 doing their best work. They're not going to be doing 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.480 their best work. And we know now that are not 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.199 about just personal decisions. These are these examining It is 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.959 about a business decision too. And um, with all the 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.520 kind of media platforms that we have now, reputations can 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.720 be out there on the record. And I think that 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.360 that is perhaps a coming wave of things that people 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.720 are going to be putting things on social media. You 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.600 know that that's what happened at Ober. You know, one 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.679 bog put that on the record and other people stepped up. 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.559 So no, we are not and they will be grading 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.240 whether or not there is an official grade. Reputation is 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.160 at stake, and um, I know that there's new studies 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:44.120 and says that say that the reputation really is what 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:49.400 UH really is motivating companies to behave differently or to 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:53.480 put into place different different policies and processes, to end 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.680 a problem, or to react to a problem, maybe fire someone, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.439 to to change the culture. So I you're absolutely right 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.280 in the social media is the conduit. Thank you very 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.360 much for spending time with us. Anita Hill is a 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.559 professor of Law, of Public Policy and Women's Studies at 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.719 the Heller the Graduate School of Policy and Management at 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:28.079 Brandeis University. Thank you. We are broadcasting alive from the 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.960 Bloomberg Year Ahead conference in our world headquarters here in 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.520 New York. And one of the big questions for the 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.679 Year of head is in the age of Netflix and 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.600 Amazon Prime, how does a company like IMAX compete? And 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.200 here to address that is Richard Gelfond, a chief executive 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.960 officer of Imax, which is based in Stony Brook, New York, 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.760 but he joins us here in our seven thirty one 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.680 Lexington headquarters. So, uh can you address that? How do 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.359 you how do you compete? I think in certain respects 0:12:56.440 --> 0:13:00.199 the modern streaming trends help a company like i'm X 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.520 because streaming, definitionally is on a small device. Usually it's 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.840 in your home or in your office. And I think 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.480 people want a fuller life than that. I used to say. 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.400 You know, if you want to be changed to your cow, 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.959 sure that's a that's one way to live your life. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:15.640 But if you want to get out of your home, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.440 you want something really special to do it. So if 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.280 you go to a regular multiplex theater, let's say, and 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.920 it smells a popcorn and the uh um, you know, 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.560 it's noisy and people are yelling, that might not be 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.439 enough of a difference to stop you from streaming and 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.400 do something social. But in the case of IMAX, it's 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.520 a fabulous experience. It can't be replicated in the home 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.520 unless you want to spend millions of dollars. And if 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.760 you know, it really provides you with a reason. Um, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.679 last night I was at a Springsteen to play here 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.600 in New York on Broadway. I mean I could buy 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:50.599 the I could stream it, I could listen to the 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:54.600 music in lots of ways, but this amazing experience, immersive 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.599 experience is why you go. And I think IMAX is 0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.720 part of that trend. All right, So we got the 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.440 immerg of experience and obviously the it's great if the movie, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.280 so the experience is a hit, right, I mean, if 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.920 people really want to want to do that. Can you 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.760 speak to the challenge that you have with the actual 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.960 content providers, because we've been following, for example, the report 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:19.360 that Disney at one point was holding negotiations to purchase 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.280 Century Fox. Now you are as much a technology company 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.560 as you are a sort of holding to the theater world. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.840 Does having smaller numbers of of of content providers make 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.240 it more challenging for you? You know? I think maybe 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.600 the opposite. And the reason I would say that is 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.360 because we do blockbuster films. We do you know, larger 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.720 than life kind of movies. We did thor this weekend 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:47.320 and we did million dollars worldwide and thor and so 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.360 we're not really interested in the mid level and the 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.520 small movies. And I think to the extent big content 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.560 providers come together, they could afford more budgets and more 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.480 blockbuster films higher production value, the kinds of things that 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:04.320 really work in Imax. We've also experimented with alternative content, 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.960 so we did episodes of the Game of Thrones in Imax. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.240 This year we did a Marvel TV series, the pilots 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.480 for in Humans in Imax. So how did they do? Uh? 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.840 The they did? Okay? I mean the one on Game 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.480 of Thrones was kind of amazing because it was last 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.640 year's episodes that you could kind of reruns, you could 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.200 get on TV and people paid fifteen dollars for them. 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.640 In Humans was was the beginning of a TV series, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.720 which people didn't know, and I think one of the 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:36.040 problems we had. We were really excited about doing Marvel, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.000 but I think people expected production values commensurate with a 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.800 Marvel film, and when it was a TV pilot not 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.920 a Marvel film. You know, we did three million dollars, 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.760 so it wasn't terrible, but people didn't distinguish that. In 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.480 five years from now, do you think that Imax will 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.720 be thought of as much as a virtual reality company 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.920 as it is? Uh, the massive screen and very big 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.840 production kinds of films. I wish that was the case, 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.680 but I don't think so. Um, we are playing around 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.240 with virtual reality, as you know, and we have a 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.840 number of VR test pilots, but um, that's gonna it's 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.640 gonna take a while. I think the VR experience is amazing. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.080 Um we we and IMAX have a CEO conference. We 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.440 invite speakers in and I invited one person who has 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.240 helped invent the technology and another who makes films. I 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.120 don't know one to tend scale. I asked them to 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.840 rate VR technology today and the films today, and they 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.720 both independently said one. So, I think we're trying to 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.360 do the best VR there is in the world today, 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.680 but I think it's a long way until it gets 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.120 where it's going to go. One tension here is the 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.920 amount of money that's required to invest in virtual reality 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:51.080 or bigger and better experiences, paired with the fact that yes, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.360 people want experiences, but there's a limit to how much 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.960 they're willing to pay for them. How are you addressing 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:57.680 that tension and how is that sort of challenging your 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.600 balance sheet? Well, it's it's not because we're it's not 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.680 challenging our balance shee. Because we're doing it as a 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.960 pilot and we're eliminating the tension by doing it slowly 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.520 and not spending a lot of money. So we're opening 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.960 ten pilots around the world. We now have four open 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.040 New York, l a UM, Toronto, and in Shanghai, and 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.560 we're monitoring them in in a cost efficient way. So 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.760 if it starts slowly, we're not going to spend a 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:23.760 lot of money, and I'm not gonna push it. But 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.160 if it takes off and it really works, we're gonna 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.879 put a lot more money in. And that's kind of 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.119 what I was addressing. I don't think it's right for 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.760 prime time now. I think it's gonna take a number 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.119 of years until it gets to the point back to 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.360 your question, where it exceeds the image of our company's 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.800 big screens. I think it works very well. It's complimentary, 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.840 but it's gonna take a while. You mentioned big screens. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.360 I want to talk about a big market China. Tell 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.800 us people what you're doing there, because that's a different 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.960 You can't just, you know, import what goes on in 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.800 one place into another and expected to do well. Well. 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.960 That was exactly the model we tried what you're alluded 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.720 to in your question, which as I started going to 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.960 China almost twenty years ago, and I met with the government, 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.199 and I met with studios, and we really tried to 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.879 build something that was much more organically Chinese than a 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.920 lot of US companies do. So now we have a 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.240 hundred and fifty employees in China. We're a public company 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.119 on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. We have a Chinese CEO. 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.679 We we have Chinese content in China. So we have 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.920 about five hundred theaters now open. We do about ten 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.119 percent of the Chinese box office when we're involved with 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.439 the movie, either Chinese movie or a US movie. And 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.639 we're as comfortable in Chinese Hollywood as we are in 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.199 this Hollywood. Thank you very much for being with us 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.399 in our world headquarters. Much appreciated. Richard Gelfont is the 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:52.040 chief executive of Imax Corps. He's all about the experience. 0:18:52.160 --> 0:19:08.199 You're listening to Bloomberg n B I A making a 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:10.800 move today, UM, I want to talk now about well, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:12.560 I want to bring in Will Marshall. He is the 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.679 co founder and the chief executive of Planet based in 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.880 San Francisco. And just to kind of set the context, Lisa, 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.320 you know, one of the things I like to do 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.240 is look about space programs and NASA and In two 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:29.000 thousand and ten, there was a solar satellite, a a 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.320 dynamics observatory that was launched by NASA. It weighed sixty 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.840 eight hundred pounds and it costs eight hundred and fifty 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:40.119 million dollars to build. That's expensive. Our next guest, Will Marshall, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:41.800 has a way to maybe bring down the cost of 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.880 something like that. Well, thanks for being with us here. 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.920 So is that kind of an accurate way to kind 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.359 of look at the chronology of what we'd like to 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.000 see happen. Absolutely and what we have done at planet 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.520 as miniaturi as satellites. We've taken satellites the size of 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.919 a BOS and bring them brought them down. Most of 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.120 the cost of involved with satellites is the launched cost, 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.200 and so s d O that you just mentioned, you know, 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.040 would have taken up a single whole rocket, and rockets 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.560 are expensive. By miniaturizing the satellites, we can launch many 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.120 many satellites in one rocket um thus bring the cost 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.359 down and therefore the data the cost per unit data 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.840 down by many orders of magnitude. And this is possible 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.640 because of the leveraging of consumer electronics, which have miniaturized 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:27.240 sensors and processes and hard drives for things like smartphones. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.200 So we leverage that to miniaturize satellites. So how cheap 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.560 is a cheap satellite? Um orders a magnitude less than 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.879 the one that your colleague just referred to, like a 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:43.480 thousand dollars. Yeah, exactly. We have to sell data, and 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.080 we don't like to talk about this cost of the 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.439 satellites themselves, but we brought down the cost of the 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.840 imagery by many orders of magnitude. All right, so let's 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.120 talk about the practical application of this imagery. First of all, 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.600 have you already started to sell that data to a 0:20:57.680 --> 0:20:59.280 number of different industries. Can you give us a sense 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.359 of what they are, how it's being used. Absolutely? Firstly, Yeah, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.560 we've launched more than two hundred satellites, is the largest 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.560 fleet of satellites in history, and we're getting about three 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.320 under forwarding million square kilometers of imagery down every day. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.280 We image the entire Earth every single day. What that 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.320 enables us to do is rapid change. See rapid changes 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.840 over the planet. Um. The industries that are interested in 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:24.880 that include agriculture, consumer mapping, governments. So in agriculture, what 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.320 we've what we see is that this the people. We 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.960 can help improve crop yields by bearing in season diagnostics, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.320 so we sell it to big AD companies. We can 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.520 tell crop yield on a pixel by pixel basis and 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.639 then they can inform the farmer when to add water, 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.439 so when to add firdliers during the growing season to 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:45.720 help improve the crop yield. UM in consumer mapping, that's 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.239 companies like Google that buy our data to have up 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.480 to date sabaite imagery layers on their on their satellite 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:55.960 imagery layer maps UM and then UM governments use it 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.919 from a range of things from security to things like 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.560 response to the hurricanes that have been happening here recently, 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.080 or the earthquake in Mexico, so disaster response. Can I 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.160 ask you a question. Whenever I think about people shooting 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.840 things up into the atmosphere and it's sort of satellite 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:15.640 revolving the earth, I think about all the trash or 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.040 sort of all the refuse. Is that a problem for you? 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:21.840 Not for us? But it is a problem satellite debris. 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:24.280 Space debris is a big problem. There's there's about thirty 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.840 million pieces of man maybe debris orbiting the Earth. I 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:28.560 worked on this for many years when as a NASA. 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.720 It's mainly up at higher orbits where the Russians and 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.639 the Americans put a lot of their satellites. Back in 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.240 the early part of the space agent didn't realize that 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.639 this could have this effect of of of where debris 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.800 hits debris and then causes more debris that then causes 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:46.920 increases the collision. So we actually have a runaway situation 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.399 um in certain altitudes. It's very slow, but just like 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:52.639 climate change, the sooner you nip it in the budda burdder. 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.280 Now we stay out of that problem by keeping us 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.920 are like way lower in orbits, like more like four 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.440