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Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino Bass layers to technical outerwear for

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Speaker 1: every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: recording remotely right now from Kerrville, Texas in a hotel

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Speaker 1: thing like a very bland stale hotel meeting room with

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Speaker 1: the not very bland at all, highly esteemed Dr ed

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Speaker 1: Ashby from the Ashby Bow Hunting Foundation, who is um

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Speaker 1: developed lifelong expertise and arrow and broadhead technology. But before

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Speaker 1: we get to him, we got to talk with with

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Speaker 1: our buddy, Jason Phelps has been on the show a

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Speaker 1: bunch of times, including some of our most popular episodes

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Speaker 1: ever when he comes down and explains, uh, what elk

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Speaker 1: are saying when they make noises? How to mimic those noises?

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Speaker 1: And of course you know from Phelps game calls, and

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Speaker 1: you know what, Yannie, what was the uh? Um? Tell

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Speaker 1: people go how to find that hunt you did with

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Speaker 1: you and Phelps the YouTube hunt. You can go to

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Speaker 1: meat EAT's YouTube page and uh find the latest season

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Speaker 1: of meat Eator Hunts and uh, it's the first two episodes,

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Speaker 1: Part one and part two when I was stunting pelts.

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Speaker 1: He's all nervous. He keeps watching to make sure you're

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Speaker 1: ELK episode out in view metrics. He doesn't want it

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Speaker 1: to get it's I guess it's like neck and neck

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Speaker 1: between your metator Hunt's meal your episode and you meet

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Speaker 1: your Hunts elk episode. He wants that one to be

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Speaker 1: number one. Yeah, he's got real strong opinions about why

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Speaker 1: I should be number one. And he thinks squirrel hunting stupid.

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Speaker 1: So if you make a scroll hunting one and it

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Speaker 1: whoops that one, I've got one plan for this fall,

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Speaker 1: So get ready, Jason. Okay, So Jay's felts Uh why

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Speaker 1: He's like, what's wrong with plastic vehagle tubes? Why? Why

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Speaker 1: did you want to mess around an aluminum vegle tube? Yeah? Up,

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Speaker 1: un to this point, we had all relied on plastic

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Speaker 1: um to try to get a high pitched um you know,

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Speaker 1: those better familiar with oak vocalizations, like a bowl vehagle

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Speaker 1: gets to a very very high frequency um up around

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Speaker 1: like hers. And we've always used plastic and harder plastics

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Speaker 1: to try to get there. Uh, And so the idea

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Speaker 1: came about where, well, if we used an aluminum um material,

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Speaker 1: we would able to be able to get to that

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Speaker 1: frequency um maybe better than plastic um would get there.

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Speaker 1: So nobody had used it. And then the idea of

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Speaker 1: trying to solve a problem that we had with plastic

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Speaker 1: vehagle tubes. The other thing that it did in a

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Speaker 1: roundabout way by being able to get to a higher pitch,

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Speaker 1: we were able to put like a near premaus on it,

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Speaker 1: which fixes another issue of bigger plastic tubes. UM. They're

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Speaker 1: extremely noisy as you walk through the woods, if you

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Speaker 1: hit a tree, if you hit brush, as they dragged

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Speaker 1: through the brush. So by putting the neoprenus sleeve on

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Speaker 1: the aluminum, we were able to kind of make a

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Speaker 1: hybrid system that solves a couple of issues. We can

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Speaker 1: maintain the high note, keep it quiet um. The end

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Speaker 1: result is a very very loud vehicle tube, louder than

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Speaker 1: I can be on my plastic tube. So it is

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Speaker 1: an effective tool in the woods where you know, I

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Speaker 1: got a better chance at getting a response from a

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Speaker 1: bowl at a further distance. And then we had one

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Speaker 1: shot we've been also working on attachments called the easy

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Speaker 1: vehgler mouth piece and the flared mouth piece, and we

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Speaker 1: didn't have the right system to attach those two and

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Speaker 1: so during this aluminum design process, UH, we were able

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Speaker 1: to design it to accept these attachments, UM, which will

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Speaker 1: really assist people that can't put a diaphragm in their

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Speaker 1: mouth to be able to steal bogle and be effective

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Speaker 1: out in the woods. And so another thing about the

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Speaker 1: metal vehicle tubes, it comes with like a mouth piece

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Speaker 1: that which you call the easy bagleer mouth piece, which

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Speaker 1: you make clear is for people that don't want to have, like,

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Speaker 1: don't like to have a diaphragm calling her mouth. Can't

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Speaker 1: make a diaphragm calling her mouth? Yeah, so right now,

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Speaker 1: and you know the best way to bagle is to

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Speaker 1: put an internal diaphragm which consists of a piece of latex,

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Speaker 1: a frame and some tape to seal the call off

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Speaker 1: in your mouth. And we create our vehicles to that. UM.

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Speaker 1: One thing we've noticed over a lot of time, UM

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Speaker 1: talking with a lot of customers, you know, gag reflexes.

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Speaker 1: People that just can't figure out, UM how to run

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Speaker 1: the call. Their mouths don't work right, you know, on

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Speaker 1: and on there are reasons why people can't run a diaphragm,

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Speaker 1: and so what we design is we've taken our very

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Speaker 1: very popular ant diaphragm, taking the tape off and then

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Speaker 1: created a seal inside of an external attachment and all

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Speaker 1: you have to do is put your bottom lip over

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Speaker 1: the small air opening and blow. Uh. There is a

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Speaker 1: little bit of of skill involved, but it's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: at ten percent of being able to run an internal diaphragm.

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Speaker 1: You literally just have to put your lip over the

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Speaker 1: bottom of whole, apply you know, different pressures, and blow

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Speaker 1: through it to achieve in a bold bagle. So it's

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Speaker 1: very easy and it solves a lot of issues that

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Speaker 1: people have it running a diaphragm. So I want you

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Speaker 1: to compare what these different things sound like. So take

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Speaker 1: one of your regular diaphragms and hold it up to

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Speaker 1: the aluminum bagle tube and rip right, and then go

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Speaker 1: ahead and crank one out with the mouthpiece and maybe

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Speaker 1: do whatever back and forth, you know, so people can

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Speaker 1: hear the difference between what they're what you're getting with

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Speaker 1: a diaphragm and what you're getting with the easy beagle

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Speaker 1: or mouthpiece. Which you really just like kind of put

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Speaker 1: your mouth over and and blow. Yeah. So we've taken

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Speaker 1: the this tube had the easy bogle are on it,

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Speaker 1: so we've switched over to the flared detachment, which is

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Speaker 1: meant for diaphragm colors, and we'll give it a little go. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a diat it. It's got great back pressure, it's

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Speaker 1: easy to run, and it's got great sound. So we

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Speaker 1: just went ahead and took the flared mouthpiece off, snap

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Speaker 1: the easy Bugler on, and we'll give it a give

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Speaker 1: it a go. So one thing I can tell by

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Speaker 1: blowing it in my office here versus the first one,

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Speaker 1: and you may not be able to tell since we're

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Speaker 1: going over the phone Steve, is that this is extremely loud.

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Speaker 1: Um not easy Bugler was. I don't know if it's louder,

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Speaker 1: but it's definitely louder, and it's it's it's evident by

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Speaker 1: what my ears are feeling right now that that easy

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Speaker 1: Bugler is louder. And I'm allowed diaphragm color, but I

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Speaker 1: cannot get the same volume out of a diaphragm as

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Speaker 1: I can that easy Bugler mouth piece. So, like I

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, I don't want to be a broken record,

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Speaker 1: but it's got some good utility out in the woods.

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Speaker 1: Or an Elk hunner trying to get something to respond. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a like there's a market difference in the volume

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Speaker 1: and how well it carries. So you're either gonna Elk

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Speaker 1: are gonna hear better, other dudes are gonna know you're

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Speaker 1: there and move away. Either way, it's win win, all right, man, Um,

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Speaker 1: we will talk to Jason Susan take our Yeah, thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. You guys have fun in Texas and

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Speaker 1: we'll see you guys soon. Doctor ed Ashby big time

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Speaker 1: researcher and arrows and broadheads Wow Ashby Bowl Hunt Foundation. Right,

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Speaker 1: but now you don't have a doctor in that. You

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Speaker 1: got a doctor at eyeballs. Yep, that's it, that's all right.

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Speaker 1: The military doctor. I was in the military yep. Spent

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Speaker 1: uh almost ten years in the Air Force and changed

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Speaker 1: over the Public Health Service. Worked out on the Indian

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Speaker 1: reservations for a number of years. That was in the

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Speaker 1: area office covered seven states up in Minnesota, that area

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Speaker 1: up in there, and then it ran the eye care

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Speaker 1: program nationwide for the Federal Bureau or Prisons. In my

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Speaker 1: last four years, so I did twenty six years with

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Speaker 1: the government, long enough, and then you went off to Africa.

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Speaker 1: I retire, liquidated everything I had in the States, moved

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Speaker 1: to Africa, got it and got into the Then he

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Speaker 1: got into the broad heads and arrows. But I actually

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Speaker 1: I was doing stuff like that long before uh. I

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Speaker 1: got involved with the Tall study back in eighty four.

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Speaker 1: And uh by pure accident, pure good luck. Good luck

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Speaker 1: has seemed to follow me the whole time I was.

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Speaker 1: I had written over trying to see if I could

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Speaker 1: uh hunter rhino with bowing era and no, it wasn't legal,

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Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't do it. And then what gave you the

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Speaker 1: idea that you should have should have to even ask

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Speaker 1: somebody to if you could shoot a rhino with a

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Speaker 1: born arrow? Or who did you write to? Well? I

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Speaker 1: wrote to the game department there in South Africa asking

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Speaker 1: about him. And then when they decided they wanted to

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Speaker 1: look at archery and see about legalizing it. Uh, they're

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Speaker 1: in the Tall Province. They were having an eating sitting

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Speaker 1: around talking about, you know, how they were gonna set

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Speaker 1: this up, how they were going to do it, what

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Speaker 1: animals are going to shoot? And they got talking about

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Speaker 1: the big animals. What you know, how big an animal

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Speaker 1: could you take? And stuff? And somebody there and I

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Speaker 1: still don't know which. One of them said, you know,

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Speaker 1: somebody wrote me to three years ago, uh, asking about

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Speaker 1: hunting a rhino. So I think I've still got the letter.

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Speaker 1: Went and looked in their files. They did contacted me,

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Speaker 1: said you still want to come try to shoot the

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Speaker 1: rhino with boring air. Told me about ten seconds to

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Speaker 1: say yes, and uh, so you know we set that up.

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Speaker 1: I went over, I did the rhino hunt while I

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Speaker 1: was there and talking to him and stuff. It's got

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Speaker 1: a few other animals on that trip. Uh. They said, Look,

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Speaker 1: I said, this is what we're doing, and we're looking

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Speaker 1: at if we want to legalize this. So would you

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Speaker 1: like to come back next year? So let's repeat the

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Speaker 1: rhino and then you bring as many different broadheads as

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Speaker 1: you can lay your hands on, and we'll go into

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Speaker 1: Maccouzi Park and before the Rifle Cup, we have to

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Speaker 1: cull animals every year and we will shoot as many

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Speaker 1: animals as we can shoot. And we want to, you know,

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Speaker 1: take a look at the effectiveness and what we turned

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Speaker 1: out and doing is they literally wanted to take any

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Speaker 1: shot that we thought we could make because they wanted

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Speaker 1: to look at what happened when you made bad shots

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Speaker 1: with different arraw set ups and so forth. And so

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Speaker 1: we went in there and I think you shot a

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Speaker 1: hundred fifty four animals in thirty days in Maccuzi. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But we were backed up with a rifle for that,

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Speaker 1: so that if you shot an animal and you weren't

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Speaker 1: sure it was gonna be a lethal head, they would

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Speaker 1: put it down with a rifle immediately somewhere remote from

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Speaker 1: where the era was, so that we could dissect the

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Speaker 1: animal and look and see what the air had done,

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Speaker 1: make a determination would it have been lethal? Would it not? Um?

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Speaker 1: You know what happened? Why was it not lethal? Um?

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Speaker 1: And if we couldn't determine, they had a couple of

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Speaker 1: veteranarians on staff that we could take the animal back

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Speaker 1: into their shed. There the veteranarians were dissect them and

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Speaker 1: tell us exactly what they found if, you know, and

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Speaker 1: make a determination would it have been a lethal hit,

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Speaker 1: would have not? It was rather interesting experiment. Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: rare to get an opportunity to do that. All the

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Speaker 1: later research we had to do on freshly cold animals,

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Speaker 1: but all of that initial was done live animals, and

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Speaker 1: most of it was on Oh, we did a few

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Speaker 1: zebra and kudo and in y'alla, in Paula ward hogs.

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Speaker 1: Most of the initial study was done on smaller animals

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Speaker 1: other than the rhinos. And uh, what haven't you shot

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Speaker 1: at the rhino? They died? How quick? Uh? They were

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Speaker 1: a pretty good distance. The first one probably covered I

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Speaker 1: would say it probably at least a half mile. But

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Speaker 1: we have much better air setups now than we had then.

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Speaker 1: Then I'm working with no knowledge of of what's gonna

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Speaker 1: make the most effective ERA set up. All I could

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Speaker 1: go on was a little bit of historical data. There

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Speaker 1: wasn't and nobody had shot a white rhino. He's twice

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Speaker 1: as big as a black rhino. He's six thousand pounds

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Speaker 1: instead of three thousand. Uh. There had been a couple

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Speaker 1: of people shoot black rhinos. Um. Bill Nagley had shot one,

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Speaker 1: and Bob swine Hardy shot one. Uh. And of course

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Speaker 1: Howard Hill didn't do a rhino, but he'd done the

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Speaker 1: elephant and stuff like that. So I had to draw

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Speaker 1: on what I could find in their writings to try

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Speaker 1: to devise an error. And uh, um, I actually designed

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Speaker 1: a different era for the second time around. It was

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Speaker 1: one era hill and it went a little bit further.

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Speaker 1: It was a rather exciting story on him because I

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Speaker 1: shot him from from six ft away seven feet give

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Speaker 1: me away from my footprints to his with no rifle

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Speaker 1: back up. And so it was and that's the only

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Speaker 1: animal that's ever shaking me up. After it was over,

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Speaker 1: what was going on, as calms could be. After I

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Speaker 1: shot him, I shook like a leaf. Didn't know where

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Speaker 1: you were standing there. Well, it was an old bull

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Speaker 1: that had actually been d hornedy. Is actually bigger than

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Speaker 1: the first rhino, which was huge. Uh. It lived in

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Speaker 1: this one valley and said we were trying to take

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Speaker 1: off one of these old bulls but no longer breed.

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Speaker 1: And every time we would see him he would go

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Speaker 1: out and he'd go through this mountain pass. Well, we'd

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Speaker 1: gone out that morning. We dropped all the trackers off

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Speaker 1: on fresh tracks to gold look and see what kind

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Speaker 1: of rhino it was and which rhino it was. Uh,

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Speaker 1: see if it's one, we're going to go after night

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Speaker 1: and there was just Chris Freeman and I left. He's

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Speaker 1: one of the game Game War game rangers there and uh,

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Speaker 1: we came to that big basin and looked there was

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Speaker 1: that bull down there again. And Chris said, okay, now

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Speaker 1: he's done this to us several times, said, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you forty five minutes. Associated you go around to that

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Speaker 1: that cut he's going out in, you'll probably got the

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Speaker 1: same way. Then I'll try to stalk him real slow

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Speaker 1: and easy, just like we have and and he'll probably

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Speaker 1: push right out through there. And I did. So I

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Speaker 1: went up to that draw and it kept getting there,

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Speaker 1: and there in this real steep bank, like sixty degree

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Speaker 1: on both sides, and as you got it right up

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Speaker 1: to the end of it, it opened up into a

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Speaker 1: big white area. But they're at the end of it.

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Speaker 1: There's two trails. There's one that's about three ft up

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Speaker 1: on the side and one down in the bottom. And

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Speaker 1: I look and all the tracks are on the bottom.

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Speaker 1: So I said, well, there's nowhere where else to go.

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Speaker 1: I gotta stand on this upper track. And so I

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Speaker 1: get up standing there and I'm waiting and waiting pretty

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Speaker 1: soon and hear rocks rolling, rocks kicking. I'm sitting there

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Speaker 1: and I'm all ready and I cut my eyes around

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Speaker 1: and he's about twenty yards from me. On the upper

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Speaker 1: trail and he comes on and he gets about fifteen

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Speaker 1: yards or so from me, and he drops down to

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Speaker 1: the lower trail to come out, and he walks by

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Speaker 1: me as closest across this table. And because they're big,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's more than six and a half feet

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Speaker 1: at the shoulder. So we're right there together, and I

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Speaker 1: got nowhere to go. You know, there's I can't climb

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Speaker 1: this bank, can't run out that way, can't run that way.

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Speaker 1: And as a rhino, sorry, I don't even know, as

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Speaker 1: a rhino known to like cause problems with humans, like

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, oh yeah, they killed several people there, yes,

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Speaker 1: there where we were hunting. They had they had killed

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Speaker 1: several including one of the game rangers had been killed

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Speaker 1: by one stomping on him, goring him, stomping on him.

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Speaker 1: Most of they just hitch you and toss you around

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Speaker 1: a little, which is enough, you know, can can you?

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Speaker 1: I want to also want to back way up and

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Speaker 1: talk about when you were a kid, But um, before

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Speaker 1: I do that, you mentioned and being de horned. At

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Speaker 1: some point someone tranquilized them and cut can you can

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Speaker 1: you explain what you're explaining to me last night when

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Speaker 1: we're having dinner about the deal with the deal with

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Speaker 1: rhinos that can't breed. Yeah, the whole thing with rhinos

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Speaker 1: is that they will live. The bulls will live uh

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Speaker 1: way past their breeding age, but they will hold a territory. Now,

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Speaker 1: years ago, when there was all of Africa to rom

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Speaker 1: there's no problem bush, I'll find new territory. But now

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Speaker 1: there's people everywhere, a little islands of animals scattered around Africa,

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Speaker 1: so they have a limited habitat. So unless you go

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Speaker 1: take these old bulls off, the younger bulls can't establish

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Speaker 1: a territory. If they have no territory, they will not breede.

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Speaker 1: Territory pretty big, so they have to have a lot

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Speaker 1: of area. And as long as that dominant bull is

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Speaker 1: holding the territory, nobody gets to breathe. If he's past

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Speaker 1: his breeding age, does he still think he can breede?

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Speaker 1: He's just shooting blanks or no, Yeah he should be.

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Speaker 1: He's still shooting blanks. Yeah, he's he's now sterile at

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Speaker 1: him and he will live another ten or twelve years

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Speaker 1: holding that territory. So no breeding is going to go

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Speaker 1: on in that territory that he controls. So one way

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Speaker 1: around that has cut his horn off and he can't

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Speaker 1: defend it as well. Uh No, they cut it off.

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Speaker 1: They cut the horns off. Keep the poachers from killing

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Speaker 1: him doesn't work. The poachers will kill him for nub

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Speaker 1: of a horn. You have to keep cutting it off,

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Speaker 1: just right down to skin level. And even if it's

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Speaker 1: cut down the skin level, they followed up, find a

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Speaker 1: d hornman, they shoot it so they never ever have

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Speaker 1: to track it again. Yeah, So the poachers are a

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Speaker 1: major problem, and that's one of the nice things with

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Speaker 1: the hunting programming there is that the rhinos are so

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Speaker 1: expensive to hunt. They have a huge monetary value. So

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Speaker 1: that monetary value is both to the people that are

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Speaker 1: on the land because a portion of that money if

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Speaker 1: you're hunting on one of the camp fire areas something

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Speaker 1: like that, it's going to the local population, and of

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Speaker 1: course the meat's gonna all go to them too, Or

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Speaker 1: if it's a private landowner, which a lot of them

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Speaker 1: are on private ranches and so forth, it's a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of money to him. So they actually hire game

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Speaker 1: scouts out of their own pocket to go out and

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Speaker 1: try to keep the poachers under control. But if that

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Speaker 1: animal didn't have that economic value, they're not gonna lay

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Speaker 1: out all that money to hire game scouts to go

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Speaker 1: out and try to control the poachers. You've you've eaten

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Speaker 1: rhino and hippopotamus, and yeah, does all look like dear meat? Like,

337
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Speaker 1: what's it looks like? No? Actually, the the white rhino

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Speaker 1: is a grazer. He eats only grass, and uh and

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Speaker 1: the hippo same thing. They're they're both grazers and it's

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Speaker 1: very much like a range beef, grass fed beef. It's

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Speaker 1: very very similar meat and excellent meat, excellent eating. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You also mentioned I stay with that. We were talking

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Speaker 1: about bullfrog hunting. Yeah, and you said you grew up

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Speaker 1: poor hunted for me? What was that all about? Like,

345
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Speaker 1: what were the circumstances and you're growing up? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: my brother and I we we just thought it was

347
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Speaker 1: great fun. But uh, we were basically feeding the family

348
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Speaker 1: and you just didn't realize it. So we hunted all

349
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Speaker 1: the time, and uh dad was he was an r

350
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Speaker 1: rifle instructor and so we you know, I shot competition

351
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Speaker 1: in my first match when I was five years old,

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Speaker 1: and he used to when we were small. And I've

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Speaker 1: actually still got the twenty two five twenty one t

354
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 1: Remington's real small little match rifle. Uh. He gives us

355
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,880
Speaker 1: one shell and you go out. If you kill something,

356
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Speaker 1: bring it back in and have another shell. You can

357
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Speaker 1: hunt all day. The first time you miss your through

358
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Speaker 1: for today, you can go back tomorrow start all over again.

359
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Speaker 1: What would you guys hunt for anything that moved? Uh?

360
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Speaker 1: Where where was that? Where did you go? East Texas?

361
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Speaker 1: East Texas? Ye? Yep? And you and you started in

362
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Speaker 1: on bow hunt early. Yeah really, I mean like both

363
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: early in terms of your age, but also early in

364
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Speaker 1: terms of oh yeah, bo hunt. My dad always talked like,

365
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 1: you know, he started bowl hunting in the fifties, you know,

366
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Speaker 1: and there weren't even both seasons and stuff. Yeah, there weren't.

367
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Speaker 1: There weren't any special both seasons early on. And there

368
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 1: were only two of us in the whole county that

369
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Speaker 1: uh they shot a bow many and the guy enterup

370
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Speaker 1: hunting with he was a World War two that named

371
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Speaker 1: James Hayes. And uh, we could shoot a bull frog

372
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Speaker 1: and get a picture on front page of the paper.

373
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Speaker 1: I mean big picture. It's a big time and because

374
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Speaker 1: people are just unfamiliar with it. Oh yeah, and we

375
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: did a lot of armor calling and stuff, and uh

376
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: James shot a bobcat one night, and lord, it took

377
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Speaker 1: up the whole front of the front page of the

378
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,199
Speaker 1: paper stories about because a lot of people didn't know

379
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: we had bobcasts in these Texas. So it was great fun.

380
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: And then uh, we'd come down and we deer hunt.

381
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Speaker 1: And then when they did get a deer season going, Um,

382
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: Bob Lee had a lease that he established the first

383
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: bow hunting only lease in Texas if Wheelock, and we

384
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: hunted on that lease there with with Bob Lee. When

385
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: we see the first establishment, they were like the first

386
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 1: guys that thought to go pay for hunting excess. No, no,

387
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: people paid before that. But it was a lot cheaper

388
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Speaker 1: than it is now. I mean when I was because

389
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: you could go back in time and and and rubbed

390
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 1: that guy out. Yeah, when I was about maybe it

391
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: would never become a thing. Yeah, seven or eight years old.

392
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: We would come down to this area Rock Springs, Lanto,

393
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: Marble Falls all through there. Our lease year round lease

394
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: was ten dollars. So we'd come down, we'd fished, we

395
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: squirrel hunt, we turkey hunt, so that that was a

396
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 1: whole year round lease was ten dollars. Uh, So it's

397
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: changed a good bit. Now. Even back then, were you

398
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: interested in uh? I mean, I'm sure you were interested,

399
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: But when when did you first start getting interesting like

400
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: tinkering with well, I'm taking with Archer equipment. Oh what

401
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 1: really got me interested in it was when Howard Hall

402
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 1: made the movie Timber. He toured the United States doing

403
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: going to schools, doing shooting exhibitions to let people know

404
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: there's the movie in town. And I got to see

405
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: Howard Hills shoot and uh, things that wouldn't let you

406
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: do now, you know. We're all on the auditorium there,

407
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: and and the opening thing was the targets up on

408
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: the stage and he comes through the doors the back

409
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 1: and shooting airs over everybody's head into the target up

410
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: on stage. And that was back in the day where

411
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: he'd have assistance, you know, whole stuff and shoot it

412
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: out of their hands and put it on the head

413
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: and shoot it off their head. So they would go

414
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: nuts for stuff like that. Now, wasn't it Burrows? William?

415
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: Was it William Burrows that shot his wife trying to

416
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: shoot Apple's off her head? Oh goodness, I do not

417
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: now know. Tropical tropic of cancer and tropic capricorn author,

418
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: wasn't that hill they got the drink in one night?

419
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: H So that guy like his big deal was he

420
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: went he was the first guy to shoot up I

421
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: don't know about the first see that's the weird part

422
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 1: about it, Like the first guy to shoot an elephant

423
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: with a bow. But there's research now that suggests that

424
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:24,479
Speaker 1: the bowl had been invented. Oh perhaps you know, I

425
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: know they say the bow and arrow was invented multiple

426
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: times around the world, correct, like independently, but perhaps away

427
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: long time agoing after was somebody probably killed some yeah, yeah,

428
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: and you do have you know tribes there uh in

429
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: East Africa that like the Hogsa and so forth, uh

430
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: As they hunt with poison eras. But historically there's four

431
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: back of people to remember, uh. They would build these

432
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 1: deep cuts into the banks going down to the rivers

433
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: so that hippo and elephant could go down there and

434
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: they could stand above of them and shoot them as

435
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: they came through these cuts. And and who knows how

436
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: far backs that goes. And with poison arrors, it's poison

437
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: arrors sometimes you know, it might take them forty eight

438
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: hours to die, but they fought just following the animals.

439
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 1: He dies Yeah, there's an old documentary I've seen. You've

440
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: probably seen it where these these boys go out and

441
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: uh stick a draft with a poison arrow. And the

442
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: documentary a friend of mine was, she's an anthropologist that

443
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: she was doing work in African She sent this thing

444
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: to me um and they just spent a couple of

445
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: days trailing after it eventually gets pretty sick. Yeah, that's

446
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: basically what they did. Kind of stands there, sweating and

447
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: convulsion and whatnot, and they can finally go on and

448
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: kill it, but they stuck with it for days. Well,

449
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: that's why you have great, great trackers. And of course

450
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: the best trackers that are laughter probably probably the Bushman

451
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: and the Hodza, these tribes that hunt with with the

452
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: poison arress. Uh. There's not a lot of great trackers

453
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: left in Africa. There's some. They would be great by

454
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: our standards, because very few people in this country can

455
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: track anything. They have trouble tracking something through the snow.

456
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: It's really pretty sad. But some of the I've had

457
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: the opportunity to work with some trackers that were just unbelievable, uh,

458
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: that literally could track animals across what looked like bare rock.

459
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: I'm a pretty fair tracker. But they would they would

460
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: draw a circle, says right here, and they would explain

461
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: what they're seeing, and I still couldn't see it. And

462
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm not a bad tracker. Uh, some of them are.

463
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: Just it seems super human, it really does. But there's

464
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: not many of those trackers left. Did you get into

465
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: medical school through the military? Drafted? I was drafted in

466
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: the last draft we ever had, the United States Special

467
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: Draft called forty four. All the medical people. Yeah, that

468
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: one of the one when they started drawing numbers and

469
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: it matches up to your last name and whatnot ever

470
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: won in my life was a draft lottery and they

471
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: so they drafted you. But you were already a med student.

472
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: I was already out of school. Oh I got you. Yeah,

473
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: I was deferred from the draft while you're in school

474
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: and then got out. Okay your numbers up? Yeah? Did that?

475
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: Did all that knowledge of anatomy and everything? Uh? That

476
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: you were trained and when you're in school did that all?

477
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: Do you think that that led you to start becoming

478
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: interested in air lethality? Uh? No, I was always interested.

479
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: You know, we were a hunting family, and common topics

480
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: would be terminal ballistics of cartridges and bullets and things

481
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: like that. And even from the very start, we'd shoot

482
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: an animal and um, you know, Dad warned us to

483
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 1: dissect it to see what the bullet did, recover the

484
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: bullet we possibly could, and so forth. And I got

485
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: into bow hunting, and uh, I didn't think a whole

486
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: lot about it really until I've been hunting twenty five

487
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: years or so, and all with traditional equipment, and I decided, okay,

488
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: it's about nine eighty, I'm gonna get a compound. Now,

489
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's going the compounds and the amount of

490
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: improvement you had in the bow and how accurate you

491
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: could be with it and everything. So I read what

492
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: I could find new magazines and this that bought into it.

493
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: Whole hall got uh it was a garden uh compound

494
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: and you got some light errors and some multi blade

495
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: replaceable blade broad heads. So they had those even in

496
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty. Oh yeah, they had a placeable broadheads are

497
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: already replaceable blade heads were oh yeah, very common then. Yeah,

498
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: And was trying to remember like some of the ones,

499
00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thunderheads, remember having a thunderhead and what was

500
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: the one hit six blades? Razor back had five and

501
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: like that plastic Yeah, I had kind of that plastic

502
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: combing wing on the front. Fake, I interjected, just real quick,

503
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: it'll drive my dad nuts if we don't introduce our

504
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: other two guests real quick. Sure, you just introduce yourself,

505
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: tell us what you do. Go ahead. Second, Todd Smith,

506
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: I'm with Grizzly Stick Garrett Sleef, owner a Grizzly Stick Arrows,

507
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and we've been working with Doc on his research for

508
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: a long time years, So we're starting with your dad,

509
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: starting back with two generations of working on this stuff.

510
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: And we were kind of the first guys to really

511
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: look at what he was brilliant and then try to

512
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: build equipment following what what he was doing. So we

513
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: didn't really have a roadmap. It was just more of yeah,

514
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: and we were learning news. We went well, I mean

515
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: we were still learning lots of it. We've learned lots.

516
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of unanswered questions. Yep. Thank you

517
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: appreciated it. Yep. So when do you uh was your

518
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: first was that deal when you went to shoot the

519
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: rhino in South Africa? Was toying with getting uh? Both season? Yeah?

520
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: What year were they thinking about doing that? And they

521
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: ultimately did it right, we went eight four and eighty five.

522
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say a bow season they're gonna legalize, Yeah,

523
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: but the I mean, it's it's surprising to me that

524
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: they even had at that time. A lot of countries

525
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: in Africa probably didn't. They probably hadn't prohibited it because

526
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: they didn't have that you could legally hunt. Were places

527
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: that were signing on on ways and means there's the

528
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: only place you could legally bow hunt. That law in

529
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: South Africa was the first affirmative bow winting law in

530
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: Africa in si So prior to that, prior they had

531
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: spelled out what leader was no place that it set

532
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: is legal to bow hunt. So if you want, if

533
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: you look at look at those early hunts that everybody did,

534
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: like Bob Swinehard and Howard Hill. Uh they did him

535
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: up in Kenya which was still open then Uh, Tanzania

536
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: and Mozambi all places that were silent. That's where like

537
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: the adeladdle crowd drifts off to Alaska. Yeah, or that

538
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: dude that wanted to kill a barrow the spear like

539
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 1: she went somewhere in the Mississippi. Then after they did that,

540
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: they clarified it that in fact, you can't kill a

541
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: barrow to spear and yeah, yeah, I got you. So

542
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: South Africa was the first place in Africa to decide

543
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: to do after we did all decide, presented it all

544
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: to the parks board. Uh, they legalized bow hunting and

545
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 1: then it's just Domino, you know. Then it was Zimbabwe

546
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: and it was Zambia and it wasn't a maybe. Uh

547
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: and it just went on and on because they were

548
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: afraid of lose in business. So yeah, well once they say, hey,

549
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: you know these people getting this bow hunting money in,

550
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: so you know they're making foreign you know, for X

551
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: is coming in. Uh, let's get on the bandwagon here

552
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: and get some of this. When you earlier mentioned getting

553
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: into compound bows and you said, like you bought into

554
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: you bought into all that, bought into all? What to

555
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: the light fast arass you know? And U what I

556
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: had beamons, remember little skinny beamons, And that year I

557
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: hit and lost four deer. I had never done that,

558
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: So I said, something's wrong. So I did what I

559
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: would have done with a rifle. I said, you know,

560
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: unless research, somebody who's got to research what works what

561
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: doesn't other than just reading a magazine and seeing what

562
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, the companies are advertising and stuff is being pushed.

563
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: So I was looking for stuff like Chamberlain's work with

564
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: rifles and you know, some some honest research. Nothing, it

565
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: didn't exist. So I decided, okay, I'm gonna have to

566
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: find out for myself. And now this was about you know,

567
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: early ages before the Tall thing came up. So I

568
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: was already started doing stuff and looking at what was

569
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: happening before the the Tall thing. Well, when the Tall

570
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: thing just really kicked started me. Now I had a database.

571
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we had to really collect data to do

572
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: these reports for the Tall Parks Board. Well the time

573
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: we did than the Tall study, I had more questions

574
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: than I did when I started that. And I found

575
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: that all the way through twenty six years of research

576
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: is every time I do and you set a test,

577
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: I end up with a new set of questions of

578
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: things to look at, and I'm still not through. That's

579
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: why we established the foundation because after I hurt my back,

580
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: I can't do anymore. Uh So somebody had to take over.

581
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: And you're not gonna find any idiots like me. I

582
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: did all of eye out of my own pocket. Every era,

583
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: every Broadhead, every feather, everything was purchased by myself. I

584
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: won't to stay independent of the archery industry. Wish we

585
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: still do. We do not take donations from archery companies

586
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, noticing on your boy's website, the

587
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: Grizzly Stick website, there's a note on the bottom that says, uh,

588
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: because you have an asked me Broadhead yep, but a

589
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: note on the bomb says you won't take any money

590
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: from that Broadhead. Nope, not even a little bit. Nope.

591
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: That was hard. That was part of the agreement. That

592
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: was everybody, I wouldn't use my name on it. Yeah,

593
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: and I'm not that smart, but I got I'm like,

594
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: that sounds like a pretty good deal. Yeah. The other

595
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: covenants on there was not at all. The other covenant was,

596
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: when we do the testing, if the Broadhead works, you

597
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: pull use my name on it YEA, with a disclaimer

598
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: that I don't receive any funds out at it. Because

599
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: unless you stay totally independent of industry, your research is tainted.

600
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of stuff out there, a lot

601
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: of wound lost studies that were financed by the archery

602
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: industry that come up with these incredibly low wounding rates

603
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: by archery standards. They're showing. All of the studies that

604
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: were independently done by game departments all show almost a

605
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: one to one race. I would say, I would say

606
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: it with and I would say with Elkin America, I

607
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: definitely say that that's the case. I think it is

608
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: just about everything. And I guided while I was in Africa.

609
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: I did quiet particularly there's bow hunters. I'm sort of

610
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: a freelance guide, so you know, if they had too

611
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: many clients, I would go in or if they had

612
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: bow hunting clients because there was almost nobody over there

613
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: and anything about bow hunting that I would go in

614
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: and work with whoever with their bow hunting clients. And

615
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: I would say it's definitely it least one to one

616
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 1: in Africa, whether the equipment that people were bringing and using.

617
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: Yet you can cut it down to almost nothing as

618
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: I got towards the better error systems. UH. Out of

619
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: the last twenty five years where I have actual records

620
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: tracking the animals that I've killed, there's six hundred and

621
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: twenty seven animals, four lost animals four. I get that,

622
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: but like it has so much to do with ask

623
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: your question about consistency, Yanni, because it has so much

624
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: to do with like, did you punch a hole through

625
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: its heart? Like if you're if you're a very good

626
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: archer taking very close shots, you're gonna have a very

627
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: high recovery rate. You can't really always do that. I

628
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: was a ground hunter. I've shot a few animals out

629
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: of tree stands up, but very few stalker. Now, stalkers

630
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: don't necessarily get set up shots. Now, my whole goal

631
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: from the get go was to find the most effective

632
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: error system you could possibly use, because a lot of

633
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: the shots I took were shots that they're not broadside shots,

634
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: you know, they're long quartering shots facing you, shots moving animals,

635
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: you know. I used to when I was a kid.

636
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we shot a lot of moving targets. Animals

637
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: just as big moving as he is standing still. Target

638
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: size is still the same. So I didn't have too

639
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: much trouble at all shooting moving animals. Now. We used

640
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: to do a lot of bird hunting and stuff flying birds. Uh, weller,

641
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: both didn't hit a lot of them. It's got a

642
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: lot of practice running rabbits in front of dogs, and

643
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: you can get pretty good on running shots, good enough

644
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: to shoot big animals. A big animal actually gets pretty

645
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: easy after you, you know, practice on stuff like that.

646
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: Nobody does that kind of stuff anymore, um. And you know,

647
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: there were some things in there that I didn't have,

648
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: a lot of animals that were gut shots. I've never

649
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: lost a gut shot as I got into these better

650
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: era setups. But a lot of that's careful management of

651
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: after the shot, of leaving it long enough, of stalking

652
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: the trail, you know, and and not spooking just like

653
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: you're hunting the animal again to find it. And most

654
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: of the time, if you give them eight, ten, twelve hours,

655
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: they're dead. Um. As a matter of fact, I don't

656
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: think I've ever had one go beyond about a hundred

657
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: and sixty yards when I didn't pursue him. He feels bad,

658
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: he lays down, You give him time, and he will

659
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: bleed out. There's a lot of think of your digestive system.

660
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: There is a lot of blood vessels in there carrying

661
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: away all this digestive food, nutrients and so forth. And

662
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: the single bevel heads that rotate actually will wind intestines

663
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: up around them, and you get a thing called a

664
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: starbursts cut. Now, I didn't know this. TI was doing

665
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: a lot of the research. But you'll get cuts that

666
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: are five or six inches away from the path where

667
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: the air went through, where it's wound stuff up around

668
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: it and made all these little cuts. And I was

669
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: doing that by taking die in a syringe and injecting

670
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: it into the intestines and looking at them where the

671
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: dye is coming out, And so you get these huge

672
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: starbursts cuts in mobile tissues, and you get some of

673
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: that effect even in lung tissues, where it just almost

674
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: liquefies the lungs just MUSHes it up. And I've got

675
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: a lot of photos of dear that you will look

676
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: at and think they were shot with a rifle because

677
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: of the amount of blood shot tissue. You do not

678
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 1: get that with double bevel heads. Let's save the double

679
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: and single bevel you you want to get into that

680
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: right now. I want to get into grains, all right,

681
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: explain that you are we there? Yeah? Have we covered

682
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: off on enough of like how we how doc did

683
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: the studies? No? Okay? But for people that aren't real

684
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: familiar with aero setups, that's true. I think that when

685
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: he's talking about aero setups, I think people need to

686
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: know what he's talking About's true, that's true. Um, it's

687
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: an arcane unit of measurement. But explain what a grain

688
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: is because we're gonna talk a lot about grains. Well,

689
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: it is a unit of measure, and there's seven thousand

690
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 1: grains to a pound. What is that based off just

691
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: counting up powder grains? Well, I'm not counting grains, but

692
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: that's where the unit of measure works out. That's what

693
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: a grain is. Yeah, but it's got seven thousands of

694
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: a pounds. It's an English measure moment, it's got to

695
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: be something like some dude took a pound, some dude

696
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: took a pound of like granulated powder or something. No, no,

697
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 1: it came from actual like seeds or whatever. I don't know. Yeah,

698
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,280
Speaker 1: I don't remember which one of the stage, but together

699
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: a unit, it came from like a foot about as

700
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: long as your foot. Yeah, So that's where all these

701
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: weird English stuff comes from. Is you know, what's the

702
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: cloth yard? What's the foot? What's the yard? Yeah? You

703
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: know there's a clay nucom our colleague. He's telling me

704
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: there's an old unit of measurement called the eel. How

705
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: it's spelled, and it's No, it's a deer neck. It's

706
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: a sack made out of it. It's a sack made

707
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: from a deer's neck. And you would and they would

708
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: put how you would sell tallo, you would sell tallow

709
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: in it, and it would be an eel. We're trying

710
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: to start a cryptocurrency called we're trying to start a

711
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency called bear grease, and it's gonna trade and eels.

712
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: That'd be good bear greacy, useful stuff. This. We got

713
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: a whole plan for this cryptocurrency. Man, it's gonna a

714
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: little bit point out of the water. Uh. Okay, So

715
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: seven thousand grains to a what can you give it

716
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: in like fractions of it converted to metric or or

717
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: don't you know how to do that? On top of

718
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: your head? Four hundred and what is it? Thirty something? Tom,

719
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: It's something like that. It's four thirty something. Okay, I

720
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what point. Uh, let's say the point

721
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: being this, most broadheads today, most like when you go

722
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: online and buy broadheads, um, you'll hit a little drop

723
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: down menu and it's virtually certain that they're gonna be

724
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: available on one tens and hundred was if they got

725
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: to that'll be the two right, yeah, um, and those

726
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 1: are what I mean they're they're not an ounce fractions

727
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: of an ounce and then the arrow explain arrow weeight

728
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: like like like you're like, what would be the most

729
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: like currently day most guys going into their archery shop

730
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: and buying arrows for a contemporary compound set up or

731
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: buying arrows, and what would you say is three. It's

732
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: about where they're gonna be, and that is people maximizing speed. Well,

733
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: speed has been pushed. Kinnetic energy has been pushed to

734
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: get connetic energy because the formulas squares the velocity. It

735
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: looks really good as sells speed cells. And the industry

736
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: has pushed this stuff since the nineteen fifties when the

737
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: Allen compound first came out, and then the Jennings compound

738
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: and and those were the first of the compound bows

739
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: and uh, they were so much faster than traditional bows.

740
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: And then as they got them faster and faster and faster.

741
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: This is what people buy. I met a guy at

742
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: the archery range when it was out tuning Eras in

743
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: Australia who had just bought a new bowl because this

744
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: new bowl was four ft per second faster than his

745
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: old boat. He spent on this boat to get four

746
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: ft per second m HM, which is not gonna make

747
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: a bit of difference. It is the error that kills.

748
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: I'd be much happier to go out here and there's

749
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: no onld Indians. It's the arrow that kills, but it

750
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: doesn't kill land on the ground. You have to once

751
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: it's in fly. He didn't know what launched it care

752
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: like damn sure knows how fast it's going. It knows

753
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: how fast it's going and how much force has got,

754
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: but it doesn't take as much as you think it

755
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: does to get it to perform. Still, it's still, it's

756
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: gonna be moving. It's gotta be moving. Moving one mile

757
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: an hour isn't gonna do it. So there's a point.

758
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there's an argument to be made for it

759
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: moving really fast. Well, there's a argument to be made

760
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: for not moving fast. It's moving at late speed. The

761
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: resistance quadruple as the speed doubles. Example is go down

762
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: the road at thirty miles an hour and stick your

763
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: hand out the wind and field of resistance. Now go

764
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: sixty and field of resistance. Now go ninety and field

765
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: of resistance it goes up as the square of the

766
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 1: velocity inquiries, so you get at ninety, you've got nine

767
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: times of resistance you have at thirty. One of the

768
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: things we're finding because we get all his data back

769
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: in from thousands of hunters over Buffalo shot now and

770
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: over a hundred elephants with these era setups, we're seeing

771
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: more passed through shots with bows sub seventy pound film

772
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: war with heavier draw eight bows. That's one of the

773
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: things we're gonna research. Something's happening. We don't know what,

774
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: but there it's a significant difference in the number of

775
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: passed through shots. Is it the tissue resistance going up

776
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: at the higher veloss Like, is it more flexional in

777
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: the shaft on the shafts not stiff enough to handle

778
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: the impact at the higher force? You know what? What

779
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: is it? We got to find out that's less one

780
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: of the things on our list of research. Okay, Yanni

781
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: asked all about the research now. So man, there's a

782
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: lot of questions right now because I think you just

783
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: very quickly because numerous times now you've said, like the

784
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: arrow set ups that we're using now, So we sort

785
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: of Steve laid out what the what like a contemporary

786
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: you know in this crowd seems to be an insufficient

787
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: arrow set up. So explain what the what a sufficient

788
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: arrow set up is? Now that what we're talking about.

789
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: And then also on the heels of that, tell me

790
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: when when all these other archers are sending in this

791
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: information and data points, I want to know, like, is

792
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: it just like a phone call and they're sort of

793
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: giving you, like the anecdotal story of what happened or

794
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: is it literally they have a form? Don't that they

795
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: fell out for you. I've tried having other people collect

796
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: form dat I was called out the forms and stuff,

797
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: and you can't get people do it. It's a lot

798
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: of work. They just won't do it. It's just too much.

799
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: Pictures you get, pictures you get. We get a lot

800
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: of dissection pictures though people. I try to push that

801
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: if I could get every hunter, every bow hunter, to

802
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: just dissect the animals he shoots and look at what

803
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: has happened. But more importantly, if he ever get the

804
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: chance to dissect the unsuccessful shots to find out when

805
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: they want they fail, That's where you really learned something.

806
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: Successful shot didn't tell me much. But anytime there's an

807
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: unsuccessful shot, it gives you an opportunity to find out

808
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: what happened, why did it fail? And that's really where

809
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: you learn to develop these better error systems. If I

810
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: take what I like to call a penetration maximized ERA

811
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: and put it against what I would consider a good error,

812
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: better than what most people are shooting today, I can

813
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: more than triple the penetration. That's fifteen inches and set

814
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: of five are thirty inches instead of ten. That's a

815
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: big difference penetration. We've got people out there with women

816
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: with with low forty pound compounds getting five and six

817
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: ft of penetration on things like eating on quartering shots.

818
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,479
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Explain the aerra set ups that they're using.

819
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: Those those ERA setups are very high FOC because most

820
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: of them are short drawals. Would would normally bet or

821
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: more with the ERA set ups that they're using. FOC

822
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: that's the weight forward the center and uh we actually

823
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: established munch those because traditionally you had you know, a

824
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: low FOC in a normal FOC, which was you know,

825
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: eight or nine percent, and then a high one which

826
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: was fifteen and sometimes as much as eight. And as

827
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: I got into the research, I had to develop some

828
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 1: names for other stuff. So we went into extreme FOC,

829
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: which is from nineteen on up to thirty and above

830
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: thirty we call ultra extreme. Now, the reason I come

831
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: up with those names was real quick to explain the

832
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: percentage of talking about that's how much the weight the

833
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: balance point of the area is full of the center

834
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 1: of the era, the physical center. Yeah, but how do

835
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: you I don't understand how it's reflected in percentages and

836
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: not is the is the percentage that it is forward

837
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: to the center, and then you count from the knock

838
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: to the front of the broadhood the shaf you can

839
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: use there. They are both methods are used, but the

840
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: AMO standard is from the throw to the knock to

841
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: the end of the shaft, does not include the head.

842
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: About the overall set up you're talking about the erralf

843
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: I prefer that one because if you take the same

844
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: era and you put a field point on it and

845
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: a broad head on it, they're gonna be different links

846
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: and you're count with different FOC percentages. The FOC we

847
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: measure is a relative term, just like the static spine

848
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: of an era. It does not tell you much dynamically.

849
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 1: FOC actually is an aeronautical term and it's how far

850
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: the center of gravity is from the center of pressure

851
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: of an object in flight. M hm. So we've just

852
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: used that picked it up an archery because it gives

853
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: us a rough idea. Now with it works the same

854
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 1: way with a plane. The higher the FOC with the plane,

855
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: the more stable the plane is in flight, the harder

856
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: it is to turn the plane. The lower the foc,

857
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: the more maneuverable it is. Well, which one do you

858
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: want your error? You want your error going all over

859
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: the place? Do you want it only if you have

860
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: a saying where it's going? You want possible? But now

861
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: I like to listen to that analogy before and something

862
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: that I was listening to you speak, and yeah, it's

863
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: like a fighter jet. As the foc is very low

864
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: take F twenty two. Rafter can almost fly sideways. But

865
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: a human cannot fly it. He has to have a

866
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: computer to do it. It's that unstable. But you take

867
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: uh k C one thirty all that it has a

868
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: high weight forward as stable as can be. Probably can

869
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: sit there and turn loose of it for two or

870
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: three medicine talk to you it is that's the big difference,

871
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: and that's one of the benefits of high foc in

872
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: an era. An era is always once it leaves the boat,

873
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: it's always flying. The medium that it goes through changes

874
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: It flies through the air, it flies through the skin,

875
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: and it flies through the audipose tissue, through the muscle,

876
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: through the bone, all the way through. The animal is

877
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: still flying until it comes to stop. It's flying even

878
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: when it hits the dirt. As long as this movie

879
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: is still flying, it's just flying through dirt now, so

880
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: you have to get the concept of what it's doing.

881
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 1: This stability carries on through the animal. This is where

882
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: it really makes a difference in terminal ballistics. To have

883
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: that high foc is we now have a very stable

884
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 1: era that is much more difficult to redirect. To have

885
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 1: hit a bone and glance off at an angle so

886
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 1: higher we get the foc. It makes a huge difference.

887
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: Now it makes no difference in the testing we have

888
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: so far, makes no difference as far as penetrating a

889
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: heavy bone. That depends totally on the weight of the

890
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: air how long he is able to push on the bone.

891
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: But once it breaches the bone, the foc comes into play,

892
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: and that's where you get a huge increase in post

893
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: breaching penetration the archery industry's reluctance to look at what

894
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: you have. You're divorced from the industry intentionally. Um, they're

895
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: coming around though, Yeah, but I mean are you how

896
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: were you making your own broadheads? And like, how are

897
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: you testing different setups that didn't exist if the archery

898
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: industry didn't produce them. Uh. The only single bevel was

899
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: out there was the Grizzly and I used a lot

900
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: of and that's not what they made is different when

901
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 1: Harry Elberd used to make um and Uh, I mean

902
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: the way the different way arrows. How are you making those?

903
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: I was building them up, I was waiting the eras

904
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: there all sorts of different things like drilling them out

905
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 1: and filling them and stuff. Uh. Some I feel some

906
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: were double shafted eras. Uh, some internally footed eras. Uh.

907
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: All sorts of ways to increase the weight on there.

908
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: And uh yes, Uh in the early days, I made

909
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the uh when they weren't available, steal inserts,

910
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: brass inserts, had people make them for me. Machinist. I'm

911
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: lon't good enough to make them. Uh, I see, but

912
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: that's what I was curious, Like so you had to

913
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 1: be You were testing things that didn't technically not didn't exist.

914
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: You were testing things that weren't available on the market,

915
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: right because I was finding as I would do a

916
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: test and I would say, Okay, we need to look

917
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: at this, and we need to look at this. Well,

918
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: this isn't available for all that out of pocket. Everybody

919
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: at it, even having hardness. You get married, to have kids, uh,

920
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: married twice, divorce twice. I learned what they think? What

921
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: do they think about all that arrowhead buying and all that? Uh,

922
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm divorced twice. Probably How long did you stay married?

923
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: The longest thirteen years? Yeah, yeah, the next one was

924
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: three years. I got smarter factors. I just had my

925
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: thirteenth anniversary. Yeah. So you were saying that the current

926
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: the heavy aerosystems that you like high FOC. Can you

927
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 1: explained FOC, but then explain the rest of the aero system? Okay,

928
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: there are actually if you look on our website, we'll

929
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: go through them in detail there Hunting Foundation. Yes, you

930
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: can go through the twelve factors that are there. We

931
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: also have all of the updates that we did through

932
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: the years. Now when people start reading those and there's

933
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: a lot of pages of them. They need to read

934
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: the whole thing because some of the things early on

935
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: that I look at the research and the data that

936
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: we had in sent low, you know, it indicates it

937
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: might be this, might be that. But we learned stuff

938
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: as we go along and things get better and better,

939
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 1: are better um as we as we do get more

940
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: information on it, so we would find these new things

941
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: that that need to be looked at. Man, that's just

942
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: what we had to do. And if we had to

943
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: build something, we built it. You know, it's just what

944
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,240
Speaker 1: you did. The hardest part was coming up with shafty

945
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 1: no good shafts, and and the long process of every

946
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: era that we've used in the study is teamed uh

947
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: bear shaft team, every one of them. Because without that,

948
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: that's one of the high factors is you've got to

949
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: have structural integrity the era. That's the most important thing.

950
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: Without that, it doesn't matter if it flies perfect, where

951
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: do you hit the animal? Nothing. If that aer breaks

952
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: or part of it breaks when it hits the animal,

953
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: every everything's lost. You've got no control over what's happening.

954
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: You're probably gonna lose an animal. Uh. And then you

955
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: have to have perfect flight. Now those two things ever

956
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 1: ever change. So you got to go through all this

957
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: long tuning process for every error before you start testing it,

958
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: or your testing is no good mm hmm. And then

959
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: you go down through all of the other factors, and

960
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: each factor they'll compound each other so that this factor

961
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: has a certain percentage gain and this factor has a

962
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: certain percentage gain. Well, if you've got one of them there,

963
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: you've got this game. When this game kicks in, it

964
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: takes in a portion of this game, so it keeps

965
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: adding up as you go to more and more factors. Two,

966
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: if you want to get the most out of it,

967
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: you incorporate as many of the factors you can. But

968
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: the important thing is that anything you do out of

969
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: these factors to your error setup is gonna make it better.

970
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: And you have twelve factors. Yeah, we have twelve factors

971
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: in there. Can you go through some of them? If

972
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: I get my note so out, I can, because we're

973
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 1: gonna do that later today, because I'll forget all their

974
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: ranking relative order. If you took in all shots together,

975
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: the ranking will change under certain situations. For instance, the

976
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: heavy bone threshold is right at the bottom of the

977
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: list because it's not important unless you hit a heavy bone.

978
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: But when you hit a heavy bone, it'll jump to

979
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: the number three position. And so there is some movement

980
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: in these things depending on the shot. That's why you incorporate.

981
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: You don't know what's gonna happen on a shot. The

982
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: animal's gonna move, it's rare. We've got a lot of

983
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: video footage here in Texas shooting hogs and deer and stuff.

984
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: Uh compounds, fast compounds, slow compounds, traditional bones, so forth.

985
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: We don't have a video of an animal that does

986
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 1: not move before the air gets there. And most of

987
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: these yards m hm. So if you look at it

988
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: in slow motion, the animals in motion, in motion, in motion,

989
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: in response to the bow noise. Yes, and most of

990
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: the time it's a duck and roll away. Duck can

991
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 1: roll away from the source of the north from the source,

992
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: but not always. Sometimes they'll completely reverse only sometimes they'll

993
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: actually turn into it. But there's always some movement going

994
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: on in there. Really, there's not a single video of

995
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: an animal not reacting at all. Now, only times I've

996
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: ever seen animals not react at all to the shot

997
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: was on a very long range shot. That's all been

998
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: small game varmint shooting, varmint calling that kind of stuff,

999
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: uh where they might not hear, but we were going

1000
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: to do more. I've done a little bit of research

1001
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: looking at air noise, and you can quiet down an

1002
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: air a lot by different types of fletching. And we've

1003
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: worked out of fletching that we call an A and

1004
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: a fleshing very small triangular shape. It will only work

1005
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: with very high foc aras the higher you've got the

1006
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: foc you now have a long rear steering arm on

1007
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: the air, so it does not take much fletching to

1008
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 1: overcome the wind share of the broad head. It's way

1009
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: you bear shaft tuned. If it shoots perfectly, bear shafted,

1010
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: and then you put your broad head on there. The

1011
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 1: only fletching you need is enough to overcome the wind

1012
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: share under all wind conditions. So I tune that fleshing

1013
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: just like I would anything else that I put the

1014
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: broad head that this era is going to be used with,

1015
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: and then I see how small I can go in

1016
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: that fletching before I get unstable flight, and I go

1017
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: back up slightly. We actually use the thing called a turbulator,

1018
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: which is a little pin stripe thing that goes around

1019
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: in front of the feathers out a quarter of an inch.

1020
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Feathers do work better than veins because they've they've got

1021
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: higher drag and they're lighter. Gives us higher foc The

1022
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: turbulator disrupts the laminar flow down the air shaft, which

1023
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: creates increased pressure, just like wood on an airplane. They

1024
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: use turbulators on airplanes too, uh, which will increase the

1025
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: pressure on the small reflection and that has a much

1026
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: lower sound effect. So we're gonna do a lot more

1027
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: research for that. That's coming up. Because you think they're

1028
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: responding to the sound of the approaching arrow or through

1029
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: to take a big fletch and shoot it a rabbit

1030
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: at about eighty yards, watching perk up and move where

1031
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: the arrogance there? Oh, here's it coming. Yeah, So you

1032
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: don't sound too dissimilar from a that's true and very

1033
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: similar yep, and and so big fleshing it. Now. When

1034
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,680
Speaker 1: I first started hunting and it started into this research,

1035
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: he I had to use really large feathers because I

1036
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: realized that at close range I had to get my

1037
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: air out of paradox to get the penetration up. Because

1038
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: I could shoot animals at yards a lot more penetration

1039
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: that if I shot him in seven or eight yards,

1040
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: that's the paradox. The era is flexing, So you have

1041
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: archer's paradox, and let me give it a shot and

1042
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: then you can correct me. But basically as that your

1043
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: bowstring starts to push your arrow. The arrow doesn't immediately

1044
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: start moving at first flexus. Your arrow does this as

1045
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: it's coming out of your boat, like it bends in

1046
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: the sideways, um, you know, a half moon arc arc,

1047
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: and then as it leaves it does that the other direction,

1048
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: and then the other direction, and eventually it straightens out

1049
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: and then flies completely straight. But the paradox is that

1050
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: it's not that you think the closer it is the better. Well,

1051
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: the original paradox so weren't center shot bows, was that

1052
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: in order to hit the target, it has to bend

1053
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: around the boat. It has to not be pointed at

1054
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: the target. But that's not a paradox, well it is.

1055
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: It's paradox that you don't point at it to be

1056
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: able to hit it. Ah, there's the paradise. I was

1057
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:15,919
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where the paradox is. I thought

1058
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: the paradox was you think really close is better. No, no, no,

1059
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: it's actually the fact that on an tradtional bow that

1060
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 1: you know, and in some of the boats I used,

1061
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: have no self for that reason, let me use lighter

1062
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: air shafts. When I was trying to get it high officially,

1063
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,439
Speaker 1: and the arrows pointed off like this to shoot out there,

1064
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: I guess the rifleman's paradox would be that if you're

1065
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: shooting at something at point blank range, you'd have to

1066
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: account for the fact that you're cross there is an

1067
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: inch and a half higher than you're essentially and a

1068
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: half that's right. You'd have the line of sight and

1069
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: the board access and somewhere out there they're gonna cross,

1070
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 1: and they're gonna cross again. I'm gonna douve the rifleman's

1071
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: paradox trademarking because a lot of people don't know are

1072
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: there's paradox. We also call it shot flex. Yeah, and

1073
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: you get it again on impact. Now it's hit, the

1074
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: front of the air has slowed down and the back

1075
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: of the air is still trying to push it forward. Now,

1076
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: one of the things we found with the higher fo

1077
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: cs is that they come out of paradox and you

1078
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: shoot it much faster. Because it's lighter at the back end,

1079
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 1: and when you hit the animal, most of the weight

1080
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: is up front. You've got a very stiff forward leaver

1081
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 1: arm and the back of the shaft is very light.

1082
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: And because it's very light, it doesn't push his hard,

1083
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't flex as much, and it stops flexing much faster.

1084
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 1: So that helps you get increased penetration because when that's

1085
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: flexing going through the wound channel, just having to push

1086
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: tissue every time it bends and goes through a bone.

1087
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: Same thing he's trying to push against that moan and

1088
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: that slows it down. Now, there's a couple of things

1089
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: you can do to see that really easy. Uh. You

1090
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: can take a dowe rod long your four or five

1091
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: ft drill. You a hole on the board and put

1092
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: it in there and get a rubber ball. Put the

1093
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: rubber ball away at the back end and pull it

1094
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: over the side and watch it go. There's like a metronome.

1095
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: Takes forever to stop. Move it down about halfway, which

1096
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: you're a little more than halfway like most eras are. No,

1097
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: you can go a long time. Put it right down

1098
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: against the board and stops. The same thing happens with

1099
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: an era. Now you can do that with ashual eras

1100
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: by drilling up pretty good sized holes, say five eighths

1101
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: of an inch or something, and take two errors, one

1102
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: with a normal foc, one with a high effles, very

1103
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: high effles. Put it in there so there is identical

1104
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: except for the foc, same chef, size, everything about it.

1105
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,479
Speaker 1: Pull it over to the side and turn it loose.

1106
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: Time it with a stopwatch to drop through the hole.

1107
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: Now take the high foc when it goes take a

1108
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: take a tu m hm. Same things happen when it

1109
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,959
Speaker 1: goes to the bone or a hole in the bone.

1110
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: Once you've placed to hold through there, they're very easy

1111
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: to see. You guys even use a Doppler radar when

1112
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: you're doing research. Yes, yes, we we have. Well, Daryl's

1113
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: got one, so now we've got three. The foundation is

1114
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: about too, and we've got a high speed camera on

1115
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: the way. You might be here by now where I'll

1116
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: just home. We'll find out where we can u a

1117
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: genuine high speed camera, not a regular camera that's you know,

1118
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: shooting three or four hundred frames whatever, This is three

1119
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: thousand frames a second. Well, how does the how does

1120
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: the what do you do with the Doppler radar. Uh.

1121
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: It works like any other chronograph, but it will read

1122
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: the ERA at at whatever range does you want to

1123
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 1: set it for. So this reading is goes out so

1124
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: you can shoot one ara by it and you can

1125
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: read the launch velocity. You can read it at five

1126
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: yards ten yards fifty out to where it will no

1127
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: longer pick it up. Well, it'll pick these Doppler radar

1128
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: like that. We'll pick up a thirty caliber rifle bullet

1129
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 1: out to about seven yard words, so let'll take up

1130
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: an ERA a long way out there. And we've just

1131
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: started started doing some testing with those. Are you able

1132
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: to test it coming in and going out with something?

1133
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: That's why we're trying to work out a system to

1134
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:15,200
Speaker 1: do That's one of you've got multiple level because you're

1135
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: gonna have to have one to read it going in

1136
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: and one to read it coming out because the animals

1137
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 1: going to be in the way. So we're trying to

1138
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: work out a system to do that. Uh. So Darryl

1139
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: and Troy are working on that now, trying to come

1140
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: up with a methodology and uh having Darryl with us,

1141
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 1: who's a true I mean calling the rocket man, he's

1142
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: true rocket scientists work for the government. All these worked

1143
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: on rail guns and uh uh tank penetrating projectiles and

1144
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 1: uh cruise missiles and all this kind of stuff that

1145
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: you know for years. So he's very much into both

1146
01:06:55,480 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: terminal ballistics, but more so probably into flight ballistics. Are

1147
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: you gonna hit us with the twelve factors? Oh? I was, yeah,

1148
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: I will, Okay. The very first one to the first

1149
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: four are are really ones about the only ones I

1150
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: remember on the top of my head. The structural integrity

1151
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: was talked about, which is an absolutely must have. That's

1152
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: gonna always be number one. The second one is going

1153
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: to be the air of flight. I talked about perfect

1154
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: air of flight. You're going to have to have that.

1155
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 1: The next most important overall is the extreme foc that's

1156
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: percentage wise going to give you the biggest gain in

1157
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: penetration through soft tissues, postmone breaching, so forth. The next

1158
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: one is the mechanical advantage of the Broadhead. Now Broadhead

1159
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: has it's inclined planes. It's a series of inclined planes

1160
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: on most Broadhead song got some other weird stuff stuck on.

1161
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: But the longer and narrower it is, the higher the

1162
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 1: mechanical advantage is. And you can think of it like

1163
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: wheelchair ramps. Wheelchair ramps are low and gradual because it's

1164
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: easier to move a load from here to there. It

1165
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 1: will do more work with the same applied force. That's

1166
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: what mechanical advantage is. So if we get a broad

1167
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: head that is a true three to one mechanical advantage,

1168
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 1: it will take the force of the era and multiplied

1169
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: by factor of three, and if it's two to one,

1170
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: you're multiplying it by a factor of two. A lot

1171
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 1: of broadheads are way down there, bow one on some

1172
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: of them, so you're actually losing force from the mechanical

1173
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: advantage of the broadhead. What's the shittiest broadhead being sold

1174
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: out there? Most mechanicals, most mechanical, most mechanicals, Yeah, because

1175
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 1: those things got some If I had my druthers, I

1176
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 1: just just going by what you're saying. They have a

1177
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: very low with their deploy that a very low mechanics

1178
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 1: and also the force of deployment. And we also have

1179
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: gauges that were now starting to use that, and we

1180
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: use it in some of our demonstrations of letting people

1181
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:18,200
Speaker 1: take their own broadheads and and bring a hide and

1182
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: let them push it through there. And we've actually got

1183
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: a gauge you can put on there and you can

1184
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 1: see the force required to push it through the hide.

1185
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: There's a thing called a trap pan trap Pantenson gauge.

1186
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: This essentially it's pressed down and measure your pay attention

1187
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: and it's it's really uh graphic because we have had

1188
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: people with heads that with all the force they could use,

1189
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 1: could not push them through the hide, and then they

1190
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 1: take a good cut on contact a chisel tip, I

1191
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: guess is is what's Yeah, A lot of the chisel

1192
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 1: tips are tough like that are the calm tips Okay,

1193
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: hard to push through, very hard to push through. Uh,

1194
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: And a lot of the mechanicals very hard to push through.

1195
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: Got very that blind angle even when you get the

1196
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: front part through trying to get him to deploy and

1197
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: then trying to get them through there, and it takes

1198
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: almost no force. With a good high mechanical advantage cut

1199
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: on contact broadhead is sharp. You just push through one finger,

1200
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 1: it's no problem. And all of that force that you

1201
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 1: say there of the era is forced you can apply

1202
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 1: to more penetration. So you want to get through all

1203
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: the tissues with the leash resistance you can which is

1204
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: basically what we do with all the factors. We're looking

1205
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: to maximize the force that the air carries with withever

1206
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: factors in there. I want to get back to that list,

1207
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: but I just have but I have one to go ahead,

1208
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 1: Go ahead, you've gotten a bunch of ince. I think

1209
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: you can let me have one, because can you tell

1210
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,640
Speaker 1: the story about or because you talk about penetration, some

1211
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 1: people are gonna say, well, at what point is it

1212
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,719
Speaker 1: too much? Because if I go through you both sides,

1213
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 1: that's enough. But I read something where you were saying that, no,

1214
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: it's definitely better because of what the was it the

1215
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: Royal Academy of veter Science. Yeah, and in Great Britain. Uh,

1216
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 1: they actually did some research for what reason, I don't

1217
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 1: know own errors. I never did figure that out. But

1218
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: if the shaft remains in, it impedes the hemorrhaging. If

1219
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: it stays in and the animal is moving, it impedes

1220
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: even more the hemorrhaging. But if it goes completely through,

1221
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: the shaft is out and the hemorrhaging is freer. And

1222
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:41,679
Speaker 1: one of the one of the things try for yourself.

1223
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: Get your zip block bag gallon size three quarters full

1224
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:52,560
Speaker 1: of water, get you some barbecue skewers going, stick the

1225
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:57,600
Speaker 1: skewers through. Look at the leak that's coming out. You know,

1226
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: start first, just stick on one side, stick it on

1227
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 1: one side, then push them all the way through, both

1228
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:05,720
Speaker 1: sides still in there. Now pull the two out and

1229
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 1: watch what happens. This is essentially what happened if you

1230
01:12:10,280 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: go talk to any emergency room that hershing or leaking both. Yeah,

1231
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 1: because like for blood trailing, Yeah, for blood trailing, I

1232
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: can see it's having Yeah, we notice it like it's

1233
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: like it could still be bleeding internally. It's not doing

1234
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: you any good on the ground. Don't having the projectile

1235
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: in there impedes bleeding any just responders, emergency room physician.

1236
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: If you have an embedded object, the first thing they're

1237
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: gonna tell you do is not removed. It should not

1238
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: really removed until you have that patient in a setting

1239
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 1: where you can control the increased hemorrhay gene that's going

1240
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: to occur when you remove that. And that's exactly what

1241
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 1: it'll say. You didn't look that one up on internet.

1242
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 1: That's easy to find, yeah, even internet. Yeah, yeah, Plus

1243
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: you you know, if the error is gone completely through,

1244
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: it's now you have sucking, chest wound, collapse lungs. What

1245
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: do you do when you've got somebody that does have

1246
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: a penetrate shop with a bullet, what do you do?

1247
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 1: You put a seal over there. You don't want to

1248
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: collapse that lung. They've got to have that seal to

1249
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 1: be able to breathe. So that's not what we will.

1250
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: We want him to die. We're not trying to keep

1251
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: him alive. So you want that error to exit completely.

1252
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: And if they people talk about airror staying in and

1253
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: moving around and causing all these lacerations and stuff, if

1254
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: it goes for enough stick on the other side, it's

1255
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: not gonna move around much. But even if it's in there,

1256
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: if they will dissect that animal, you don't see a

1257
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: lot of that laceration. It doesn't happen. The tissues hold

1258
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:53,759
Speaker 1: it firm enough. And why we're talking about very mobile tissues.

1259
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: Lungs are very mobile, much like intestines and stuff. You

1260
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 1: know they'll move because I think that's something if you

1261
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: look at people have sort of accepted that, Yeah, if

1262
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: you're broad as this at least in there and the

1263
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: animals running around, it's moving and cutting and it's good

1264
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 1: it is not there. If you dissect animals, you don't

1265
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: do don't see this massive laceration. It's like in our

1266
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 1: head we think it's doing that. Oh yeah, you see

1267
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: the man that's gotta be cutting. Well he's moving too,

1268
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: but the tissue is holding it and so it's just

1269
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: going this, just staying straight, not cutting. So it's just

1270
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: not there. That's why I wish I could get people

1271
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 1: to to dissect animals and look at it, and they

1272
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: would start to learn some of this stuff. But most

1273
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 1: people don't do it and got the animal and get

1274
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: out of here, you know, and they very rarely looked at.

1275
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 1: Gun Hunters need to do that too, get an idea

1276
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 1: how their bullets performed with a lot of crappy bullets

1277
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: on the market too. I did a lot of terminal

1278
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: ballistic research for Barnes bullets too, so I got quite

1279
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 1: a background and in doing terminal bullists. Uh but any him,

1280
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: we're on our list. Well okay, uh, well we're all

1281
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: mechanical advantage. But one of the things that people don't

1282
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 1: look at also is it's your edge. Bevel has a

1283
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: mechanical advantage. This is also an incline plane. If you've

1284
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: got a double bevel. It's like that the most commons

1285
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 1: back up a little bit because I think already we've

1286
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:35,560
Speaker 1: probably maybe lost some listeners just to explain, like the

1287
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: bevel and this angle, and and just like back it

1288
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: up to just one oh one. So we were dude

1289
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 1: off of knife blades and razor blades. Basically, most most

1290
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: double bevel broadheads how much like a knife blade. Most

1291
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: common angle is the same on both of them's twenty

1292
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: five degrees on each side. You now have a fifty

1293
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: degree cutting angle. When you get to a single bevel,

1294
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 1: one side is flat, you've got a bevel on the other.

1295
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: Now we've got some out there with twenty degrees. Now

1296
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: we're we're testing some of those in Africa right now

1297
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: to see if that'll hold up at twenty Now. I

1298
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: worked originally the gritties. I god had about thirty five

1299
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 1: degree I think, and I worked from different bevels, working

1300
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:24,760
Speaker 1: them down, and the lowest I can get to is

1301
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: twenty five. Below twenty five the steel wasn't strong enough.

1302
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: It starts to roll the edge, So that was as

1303
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 1: slow as low as you get. But those when you

1304
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: get to twenty five degree bevel, you've got to see

1305
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: row in twenty five. It is now twice as thin

1306
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: as a double bevel broadhead. It's mechanical advantage is twice

1307
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 1: as high. Now what does that mean for you? Okay,

1308
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 1: a blood vessel is touching it with the same amount

1309
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: of pressure between the two edges. The single bevel, it's

1310
01:16:56,439 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 1: going to slice twice as deep or twice as easily,

1311
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: whichever you want to look at it as that double bevel.

1312
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 1: Because it has a higher mechanical advantage. It does more

1313
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 1: work with the same applied pressure. By definition, that's what

1314
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:17,640
Speaker 1: mechanically managed does. But you have to have steel of

1315
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: a good enough quality for that edge to hold up.

1316
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:26,680
Speaker 1: That's why a real premium single bevel head. You know,

1317
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: our hundred plus dollars for three heads, but as you

1318
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: can at least reuse them. Look at the price of

1319
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:36,679
Speaker 1: UH five N express rifle cartridge. Now have four dollars

1320
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: a box of twenty. You know, the broadhead is going

1321
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 1: to be one of the least expensive things of your hunt.

1322
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 1: So it's old ara set up, you know, and white

1323
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 1: people scrimp on the one thing that's going to come

1324
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 1: in contact with the animal. I have never understood, but

1325
01:17:55,880 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 1: they do it. But Basically, that's where mechanical advance and

1326
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,200
Speaker 1: it's just come in. I hope that's clear enough you

1327
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: understand it. The people, most people really overlook the mechanical

1328
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: advantage of the edge bettle. It's a big one. And

1329
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: another thing is that we've talked about why I would

1330
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 1: guess that right now, if we looked at just picked

1331
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 1: a random ten arrowheads on the Internet, that the edge

1332
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 1: bevel the angle might not even be listed under the

1333
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 1: specific most of the times not It's probably not even

1334
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 1: a thing that people even think about. But that's something

1335
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 1: we tracked, and in the study, we tracked the edge

1336
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: babble of every if it's got six blades, we're gonna

1337
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: have the edge battle of all six blades listed there.

1338
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, if it's got bleeder blades, four blade blader blades,

1339
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: sometimes they have different angles ground on them. So we've

1340
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 1: got that all track. And that's one of the factors

1341
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:48,680
Speaker 1: you can look at. It's a's what difference does it make?

1342
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: And the one thing that we found when we were

1343
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 1: looking at single babble versus double bebble in absolute identical

1344
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:01,560
Speaker 1: profile broadheads on the same error that up is that

1345
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 1: the single bevels will give you more penetration both in

1346
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:10,519
Speaker 1: soft tissue and drastically so in bone. Huge difference in

1347
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: bone because the rotating single bevel will pop the bone.

1348
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,840
Speaker 1: I think that we should, uh, you should explain the

1349
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: how a single bevel uh like makes itself when it

1350
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:26,439
Speaker 1: hits an animal and bones when it when it's flat

1351
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: on one side. Okay, well we'll put the bevel over here.

1352
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: If it's flat on one side and beveled on the other,

1353
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: when you apply pressure to this side as it goes

1354
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 1: through something, there's no pressure on this side, and it

1355
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: castes the rotation. There you go. He's got a big

1356
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 1: old plastic broadhead, but he's got a left bevel. That's

1357
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 1: all right. Uh, it's going to press here but not here.

1358
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:58,880
Speaker 1: And it's going to press here but not here. When

1359
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: he says press here, he's pointing at the bevel of

1360
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 1: the broadhead, not the flat edge. Yes, the torque generated

1361
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,960
Speaker 1: is going to be proportional to the amount if you

1362
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 1: go talking about a bone, the amount of surface area

1363
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 1: of the bevel in contact with the bone or any

1364
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: given time. Now, there's also going to be a differential

1365
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: by how wide the broadhead is. When you get a

1366
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: very wide broadhead. You're putting a lot more stress on

1367
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: the edge at any given bevel angle because you've got

1368
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: a longer leaver arm coming out here torking. So it's

1369
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:38,880
Speaker 1: going to be more likely to roll that edge or

1370
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 1: chipped the hedge or whatever it's going to do. Now,

1371
01:20:41,040 --> 01:20:42,640
Speaker 1: if it's got to do one or the other, you

1372
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: want to chip rather than roll. A chipped steel blade

1373
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: is a whole lot sharper than a rolled edge rolled edge,

1374
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:53,560
Speaker 1: and you can saw your hand with it. It's not

1375
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 1: gonna cut anything, but that's where you get the torking effect.

1376
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: When you have a double bevel, you got even pressure

1377
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: on both sides. When they hit a bone, it has

1378
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 1: to push its waist straight through. Now, with a high

1379
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 1: speed camera, we're gonna find out just how far it

1380
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,639
Speaker 1: goes into the bone before it pops it with that torque.

1381
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah, I think it's happening very quickly. I

1382
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:24,599
Speaker 1: don't know that, but we're going to find out. Can

1383
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: I tell you something. I was reading the thing one

1384
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 1: time where a guy was just you holding that thing,

1385
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 1: the single bevel, talking about that. I was reading a

1386
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 1: thing where a guy was writing a paper on what

1387
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 1: he believed the prevalency of left handedness was among Folsome hunters,

1388
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:45,679
Speaker 1: based on resharpened Falsome point that they assumed we're hafted,

1389
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 1: and that he was working with his left holding the

1390
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: half of his right hand and working with the left,

1391
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 1: and I think they found that they were had a

1392
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 1: higher prevalency of I think this guy suggests I had

1393
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: a higher prevalency of left handedness at least a months

1394
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: on the hunters believe people. It's interesting anyway, that gives

1395
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:09,560
Speaker 1: you a good idea what we're talking about with the

1396
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:14,720
Speaker 1: torqu generator. What number one right now? Uh, we're still

1397
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: number four mechanical advantage. Oh you got all that rolled

1398
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:22,719
Speaker 1: under mechanical advantage. That's like ABC. Well it's not necessarily

1399
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: with the torque that would come down generaly further where

1400
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,719
Speaker 1: we talked about the type of edge babbove But okay, five,

1401
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 1: it's the shaft diameter to feral diameter ratio right there,

1402
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: because chaft goes into the broadhead. If it's like this, smaller,

1403
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: you gain about ten penetration as opposed to be even

1404
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: if the shaft is bigger, you lose penetration. What he's

1405
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:58,760
Speaker 1: sawing about about is the the drag. Yeah, like if

1406
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: you run your hand from a aft downe of the broadhad,

1407
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: you definitely don't want it to drop off at the broadhead.

1408
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: Well that's further down the list too, But yes, broadhead

1409
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 1: profile error profile is important. But that's the important one

1410
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:15,920
Speaker 1: to have right there, and we're going to do more

1411
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: research on. But in what the data we have now,

1412
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to increase very much in penetration once

1413
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:29,560
Speaker 1: you're about five smaller than the broadhead feral hm. But

1414
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: we've got a lot more skinny shafts to work with now,

1415
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 1: so we may code with something new as we do

1416
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 1: the newer testing and and find out that okay, going down,

1417
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 1: the more you might gain some more penetration. And why

1418
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 1: why I'm guessing is just that the broadhead has created

1419
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:48,680
Speaker 1: a bigger channel than the arrow needs to go just

1420
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 1: pure drag. If if you look at this coming down

1421
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: and having to bump up over an errow shaft, now

1422
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:03,000
Speaker 1: it's going to have more pressure against this tissue and

1423
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,440
Speaker 1: shaft profiles on there too. As we look at shaft profiles.

1424
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: If you have a barrel taper shaft, then you can

1425
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 1: go and buy a barrel tapertechularly in wood ares and

1426
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 1: traditional areas. Yes, they're very common and being used for

1427
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: centuries and for various things. But it'll it'll be on

1428
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 1: one diameter here then gets bigger towards the metal than

1429
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:29,800
Speaker 1: tapers at the back. Those will have the lowest penetration.

1430
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:33,759
Speaker 1: If you took identical eras for everything's up the shaft profile,

1431
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: same weight, same broad head, shopping the same bowl, shoot

1432
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,959
Speaker 1: each one fifty times and and look at the averages,

1433
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,520
Speaker 1: You're you're going to lose u significant amount of penetration.

1434
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:51,719
Speaker 1: The highest penetrating is the taper shaft. The taper shaft,

1435
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 1: the further it gets in in the drag of the

1436
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: shaft drops. Now you have to remember too when it's

1437
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,639
Speaker 1: why you can't. I haven't been able to find artificial

1438
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:07,160
Speaker 1: mediums that worked well because you're shooting that era through

1439
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:10,839
Speaker 1: a blood in an animal, through a blood suffused environment,

1440
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:13,560
Speaker 1: which lubricates you. You know how slick blood is, you

1441
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: had blood on your hands, Try to hold your knife

1442
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:19,680
Speaker 1: handle when you're gutting an animal, and it actually has

1443
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 1: a lubricating effect, which is another reason we do our testing.

1444
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 1: Within thirty minutes of putting the animal down. Not only

1445
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 1: for changing the tissue rigged mortis, but blood will start

1446
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:32,680
Speaker 1: to coagulate. You no longer have a bleeding when you

1447
01:25:32,720 --> 01:25:34,640
Speaker 1: shoot them. When they're fresh put down, you still have

1448
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: some blood coming out of the tissues you have. You

1449
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: guys into a guy that sent in this thing about

1450
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 1: how he was in a He has a cadaver lab,

1451
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: or was in a cadaver lab. Human cadaver lab. They

1452
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:54,679
Speaker 1: pump beef blood through cadavers to keep them. I don't know, yeah,

1453
01:25:55,120 --> 01:26:02,680
Speaker 1: freshened up. You could apply that you started. He's a

1454
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: lab guy there. I do feel stuff. They even do

1455
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 1: it at tempt so they use souvied warm beef blood

1456
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:18,320
Speaker 1: and roll it through cadavers, keeping and fresh. He's making

1457
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 1: note that transfer knowledge, transfer a knowledge right there, if

1458
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 1: the rifleman's paradox doesn't work out, yelled Pat, and that okay,

1459
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 1: what number you know? Okay? With number six? Aerra masks

1460
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 1: the physical airra weight, and that's a real simple one

1461
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: from physics. The heavy or something is the longer it

1462
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 1: takes to stop period and as all, it will also

1463
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 1: gave more energy from your boat. I don't care what

1464
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:55,559
Speaker 1: kind of boat you shoot. If you put a heavier

1465
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 1: air on there. It's going to happen. It won't be big,

1466
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 1: but it's going to have an increase in kinetic energy transfer,

1467
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 1: which is the proper use of kinetic energy, not what

1468
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:11,439
Speaker 1: the ARA does from the bow into the era, because

1469
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 1: all of the noise and the sound of the vibration

1470
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 1: you get with a light era, the heavier area you

1471
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 1: go to, the more it diminishes. Now I haven't gone all.

1472
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:23,400
Speaker 1: I've gone up to about six grain eras, and it's

1473
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: still showing that you're still seeing a small kinetic energy

1474
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: gain as you go to the heavier eras. Out of

1475
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:36,880
Speaker 1: any given boat, compound recurves long bows, doesn't matter, works

1476
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 1: with all of them, and that ERA mass is going

1477
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 1: to carry this additional force that it has received from

1478
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 1: the bowl. And what we're doing with all these factors

1479
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: is trying to maximize the conservation of this force the

1480
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:58,200
Speaker 1: era has derived from the bow to be able to

1481
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 1: apply it to the animal when it hit. Because this

1482
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 1: is the endpoint. This is what really matters, is the

1483
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: terminal ballistics. And you know, kinetic energy tells you how

1484
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 1: hard something it um, It doesn't tell you the forward

1485
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,839
Speaker 1: motion of it. It doesn't kinnectic energy doesn't have a direction.

1486
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 1: Sound is kinetic energy. Vibration, the shaft is the wiggling

1487
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: of the shaft, the resistance of it against the air,

1488
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: the paradox. These are all part of kinetic energy. They

1489
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with penetration, because penetration is directional force,

1490
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:39,600
Speaker 1: and that's what you get with momentum. Momentum does have

1491
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:42,880
Speaker 1: a direction, and momentum has to be met by an

1492
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 1: equal force of resistance before it stops. So the more

1493
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: momentum you can put into that era, which is mass

1494
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:56,800
Speaker 1: times velocity, not velocity squared, and not all of the

1495
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 1: momentum is force, penetration is concern works out equal. The

1496
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: more of that momentum that is invested in the mass

1497
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 1: of the era, the more outcome penetration you're going to have.

1498
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 1: Because the mass of the air is not going to change,

1499
01:29:10,479 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 1: the velocity is going to decreases, it penetrates, but a

1500
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: significant portion of that momentum is invested in the weight

1501
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,439
Speaker 1: of the air, and that weight of the error is

1502
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: going to carry all the way till it stops. So

1503
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:27,679
Speaker 1: even as that slows down, is still carrying more momentum

1504
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:31,559
Speaker 1: right up to the end, and that's why a bowling

1505
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:39,760
Speaker 1: ball carries a lot more momentum than baseball's next one. Yeah. Now,

1506
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 1: if you're talking connectic energy is one of my things

1507
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,600
Speaker 1: I get off on because there are places that have

1508
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 1: applied kinnectic energy as a standard for hunting animals and

1509
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:52,920
Speaker 1: it is not aptical. I'm sorry, it does not apply

1510
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:56,679
Speaker 1: to take a baseball picture. That get a Major League

1511
01:29:56,720 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: baseball picture in pitch ninety six miles an hour with

1512
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:03,360
Speaker 1: a softball. If you look at the laws, they where

1513
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 1: they applied it to Cape Buffalo, that's legal hunt Cape

1514
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 1: Buffalo with that's enough kinetic energy. They don't penetrate worth

1515
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 1: a damn on a Cape Buffalo. It'll make him real

1516
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:13,960
Speaker 1: mad and probably get your pounder in the ground. Oh,

1517
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 1: I got what you're saying. You're saying that kinetic energy

1518
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: picture could take a baseball and get the right amount

1519
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:27,759
Speaker 1: of Connecticut more than enough. He's legal. He's legal, he's illegal.

1520
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:32,600
Speaker 1: I got what you're saying. Yeah, And that's one of

1521
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 1: the things the industry has applied for years. Because that

1522
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: have speed cell, they push kinetic energy because okay, we

1523
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 1: get this error going faster, we've got more kinetic energy. Wow.

1524
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 1: And Okay, you need this amount of kinetic energy. Now,

1525
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 1: look at all the things where you can see on

1526
01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 1: the internet where they tell you you need this much

1527
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,320
Speaker 1: kinetic energy for hunting amount an elk, and this much

1528
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 1: front to deer, this much fronting the black bear. Show me.

1529
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 1: One that tells you is that launch connetic energy or

1530
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 1: kinetic energy to impact? Nobody ever says down our study,

1531
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 1: we tracked the momentum and the connectic energy at impact

1532
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 1: as well as it launch. It's the impact one that counts,

1533
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 1: and that's one thing that that heavier error is going

1534
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 1: to carry out. There is that increased momentum to give

1535
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 1: you the penetration you need. And that's why eerroweights imported.

1536
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: Next factor seven we're up for seven now is the

1537
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:39,799
Speaker 1: edge finish. We did some testing where we took multiple

1538
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 1: layers of fresh buffalo hide, which is about an inch thick.

1539
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 1: Talking like buffalo buffalo, Asian buffalo. Any of the buffalo

1540
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 1: Asian buffalo actually have a heavier hide across the shoulders

1541
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: and chest area. Then they're actually a tougher animal. In

1542
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:59,600
Speaker 1: kate buffalo, bigger, bigger heart by full kg. But we

1543
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:02,679
Speaker 1: made multiple layers of this and took a series of errors,

1544
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: and we we sharpened them by different methods. You're talking

1545
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:10,280
Speaker 1: like you was taking green high, green high, fresh green

1546
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: high and sandwiching them, sandwiched them together, hung them up

1547
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,600
Speaker 1: truck to pull them up. I mean they're heavy, and

1548
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 1: we would shoot them with these ferrets with the edge

1549
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 1: sharpened by different methods. And then we compared for each

1550
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 1: era individually. It's performance against itself with a different edge finish.

1551
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: And the worst edge is the old Howard Hills serrated

1552
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 1: edge where you take a file and drag it back

1553
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:42,360
Speaker 1: across the broad head and you make all these little

1554
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:45,880
Speaker 1: look like salt teeth. Run the file lately down wants

1555
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,960
Speaker 1: to make a point forward because the first thing it

1556
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:51,719
Speaker 1: does is load up with tissue and then it won't

1557
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 1: cut nothing, nothing at all. File sharpened edges were better,

1558
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:00,680
Speaker 1: but they still do the same thing. My christophey, that

1559
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 1: they've still got I don't care how smooth you file it.

1560
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:06,559
Speaker 1: It's still got these little rough areas if you look

1561
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,599
Speaker 1: at it, their high magnification, and they do the same thing.

1562
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 1: They load up with fibers and they get dull a

1563
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 1: honed and stopped edge as thin and smooth and sharp

1564
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 1: as you can get it is your best edge, the

1565
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 1: thinnest so forth for that mechanical advantage we're talking about earlier,

1566
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 1: but honed and stropped where it is just there's not

1567
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 1: a rough place on it, not catching anything, not catching it.

1568
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:37,360
Speaker 1: And actually once you get good at sharpening, as you

1569
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:41,679
Speaker 1: get them that that finish, they actually feel less sharp.

1570
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 1: They're so smart they no longer will great gripped your tissue,

1571
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 1: so they don't they feel like they actually start dulling,

1572
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:54,560
Speaker 1: but they're not. They're actually getting sharper. And you know,

1573
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 1: on the testing we sharpened every broadhead to that honed

1574
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:03,240
Speaker 1: and stripped left. Otherwise the testing is not not valid.

1575
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 1: Now some broad heads that come in the package and

1576
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 1: say they're already factory sharp, well, we'll dress them that way,

1577
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:12,760
Speaker 1: but then when we have to redo them, we'll have

1578
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: to sharp them. And you know, and see what they do.

1579
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:17,879
Speaker 1: That one you see fishhooks. The advertise is chemically sharpened.

1580
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you get all sorts of stuff. Would you

1581
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: always buy that, man, I'm like, well that must be

1582
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:27,640
Speaker 1: prete damn sharp. Yeah. Would you say that most broadheads

1583
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:33,599
Speaker 1: coming out of the package are sharp enough? No, very

1584
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,280
Speaker 1: few in the world are sharpened, But there are a couple.

1585
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: There are a couple that are sharp enough, but not many.

1586
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:43,439
Speaker 1: And you like them spit shined you leathers drop them?

1587
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well not just. I use a horse hide strap,

1588
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: which is probably the best leather strop you can get

1589
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 1: the rump the rump hide off the horse years ago.

1590
01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 1: That used to be one leather. Yep, there's only one

1591
01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:04,160
Speaker 1: factory in the world that makes it. A leather is

1592
01:35:04,240 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 1: definitionally horse hide rump yep. Yep, no ship, only one place.

1593
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 1: The one factory in the world makes it in Chicago.

1594
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:14,000
Speaker 1: It's the toughest leather in the world. And and I

1595
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:18,840
Speaker 1: used uh, I used double sided and and one one

1596
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:24,719
Speaker 1: side is uh finished with. I put polishing compoundering sixty

1597
01:35:24,760 --> 01:35:27,760
Speaker 1: tho grid and the other side has nothing on it.

1598
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,560
Speaker 1: It's just the hide sixty grid sixty thou grid. But

1599
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 1: the other side that has nothing on it has been

1600
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 1: sanded down with ten thousand grid sandpaper to poloshy so

1601
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 1: that it's just a hard polished surface. And that punches

1602
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:47,920
Speaker 1: some buffalo hide that'll punch through some buffs with with

1603
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 1: incredible difference in the penetration that you had. But it

1604
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 1: was consistent with every error. It didn't matter. For it's

1605
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: a three blade, four blade, whatever kind of head we used,

1606
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 1: the hone is dropped always penetrated the most, The file

1607
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 1: sharpened always was second, and the hill ones were always last.

1608
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 1: With all these different kinds of broad heads and different

1609
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: errors and different weight errors, but every error is compared

1610
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 1: only back to self, not to all the other errors.

1611
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:21,719
Speaker 1: So it was strictly sharpening method that made the difference

1612
01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 1: in penetration. I got a problem right now. So we're

1613
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: on seven. This is great, and I want to open

1614
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:28,600
Speaker 1: up a real can of worms. But I want you

1615
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: to I want you to not take de bait too much.

1616
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:38,640
Speaker 1: So like set a timer because we were going to

1617
01:36:38,680 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 1: get into this heavy duty but we're not gonna be

1618
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 1: able to work. I'm too I like the list too much. Now.

1619
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:47,200
Speaker 1: Yanni was mentioned to me. I didn't know this. He

1620
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 1: was mentioned to me that you've spent time in Papua

1621
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:55,880
Speaker 1: New Guinea. Yes, research and arrows. Yes. And I just

1622
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:59,720
Speaker 1: want to bring up one anecdote, Okay, I just want

1623
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:06,120
Speaker 1: you to very quickly address um ancestral archery technology real quick.

1624
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 1: And the anecdote is this, you know the guy we

1625
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:12,400
Speaker 1: bought rush off of. Yeah, Alex that one of the

1626
01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 1: tsars his kid. I think it was his twenty second

1627
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 1: birthday in eighteen seventy one, seventy two, his kid came

1628
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:25,120
Speaker 1: out and went on a buffalo hunt with Custer Yeah,

1629
01:37:25,160 --> 01:37:29,560
Speaker 1: and wild Bill Cody. Afterward. I believe it was a

1630
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:33,000
Speaker 1: I can't mamber if you Cheyenne. The guy went out

1631
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:40,479
Speaker 1: rode up alongside of buffalo bison, not a buffalo. Yeah,

1632
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:42,400
Speaker 1: I know. Okay, But if I said I was going

1633
01:37:42,479 --> 01:37:44,160
Speaker 1: and if I said I was going to antelope hunting

1634
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: and Wyoming, would you be like, boy, I'm very confused

1635
01:37:46,320 --> 01:37:47,800
Speaker 1: right now, or would you know what I was talking about?

1636
01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:54,679
Speaker 1: Buffalo gets to be a very contentious terms about buffalo testing,

1637
01:37:54,920 --> 01:38:01,600
Speaker 1: they think, But I'm using it extremely intentionally. Uh What

1638
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 1: was I getting at Buffalo? He wrote up beside it

1639
01:38:04,360 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 1: and shotty, oh yeah, I once. Here's the funny store.

1640
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell you real quick. When I was doing some

1641
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: research one time, and I was with these guys from

1642
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:13,760
Speaker 1: the Buffalo Field Campaign, Okay, and these are like activists

1643
01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 1: who were working to prevent state slaughter of bison leaving

1644
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:20,960
Speaker 1: Yelsto National Park, but their organizations called the Buffalo Field Campaign.

1645
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm standing there with the guy from the Buffalo Field campaign,

1646
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:25,640
Speaker 1: and here comes the pronghorn running by, and I say, oh,

1647
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:28,439
Speaker 1: there's an antelope. He goes, that's actually a prong horn. Yes,

1648
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 1: And I'm like, here, organizations named wrong, there's like popular terminology, right.

1649
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:38,720
Speaker 1: So a bison, the American bison, the American bison punches, uh,

1650
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:42,720
Speaker 1: punches a nail right through it and then presents the arrow.

1651
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: So pass through shop presents the arrow to whatever his

1652
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:52,439
Speaker 1: name was, okay, and brings it home. Um. In your

1653
01:38:52,840 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 1: research of the planes bow archery tackle used in Papua

1654
01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:07,880
Speaker 1: New Guinea, Clovis points, have you found um different cultures

1655
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:12,840
Speaker 1: that had uh? Have you found evidence of different cultures

1656
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:18,680
Speaker 1: that accidentally or intentionally we're applying things that you're now

1657
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 1: impressed by? Have you found cultures that, man, how did

1658
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 1: they not realize? I think a lot of this stuff

1659
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 1: was known probably thousands of years ago, and we've lost

1660
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 1: We're just rediscovering what people need. If you look at

1661
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:40,720
Speaker 1: Japanese eras, uh, you look at Chinese eras, these were

1662
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:45,840
Speaker 1: high foc eras. Look at the medieval war eras, high

1663
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:50,840
Speaker 1: foc eras, high mass. This stuff has been used all

1664
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:54,720
Speaker 1: all around New Guineas, and not just because the limitations

1665
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:57,640
Speaker 1: of the materials like evidence that there was like intentionally

1666
01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 1: like could have been different, but was intentionally the The

1667
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:04,679
Speaker 1: perfect example is New Guinea of intentional because I examined

1668
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:09,000
Speaker 1: archery equipment that was pre World War Two, no steel available.

1669
01:40:09,400 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 1: The points are made of hardwood. The bowls were made

1670
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:16,360
Speaker 1: of black palm. These are beautiful, graceful bowls would not

1671
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,000
Speaker 1: look out of place at a at a primitive archery

1672
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 1: shoot now today. And the air shafts were much like

1673
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:26,160
Speaker 1: we would think of the diameter of an air shaft,

1674
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 1: and the wooden points are quite long, made out of hardwood,

1675
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:36,280
Speaker 1: but these eras were uh. I think the lowest that

1676
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:39,840
Speaker 1: I measured was about which should be altered. Extreme f

1677
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 1: o z going up into the World War two comes

1678
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:50,680
Speaker 1: along and all of a sudden, there's rebar. There're steel now.

1679
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:52,760
Speaker 1: All the points are made out of steel. They're huge,

1680
01:40:52,840 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 1: looks like a spear. Well in order to use them,

1681
01:40:56,120 --> 01:41:00,240
Speaker 1: they had to go to a big cane shaft. They

1682
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:02,960
Speaker 1: make these things. You know, they're five and a half

1683
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 1: six ft long, these eras. But even with that big shaft,

1684
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:10,479
Speaker 1: these points weigh so much and we're talking to the light.

1685
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 1: Errors are on up three thousand and thirty five grains

1686
01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:17,080
Speaker 1: and go up, you know, well above four thousand grain eras.

1687
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 1: They couldn't get it to tune. And they actually tune

1688
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:25,679
Speaker 1: their eras just like we do when we bear shaft,

1689
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:29,479
Speaker 1: the same process off of their traditional bows. So what

1690
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:32,760
Speaker 1: do they do? They change their entire bow. It is

1691
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 1: no longer you know, long um beautiful black palm. It

1692
01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:43,679
Speaker 1: is now seven and a half feet long. It's made

1693
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 1: out of bamboo. It's about that wide. Why is it

1694
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:50,320
Speaker 1: that wide? If you put that era way over here,

1695
01:41:51,160 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 1: paradox that chaft can be in an old lot more

1696
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 1: in tune around to straight flight. But they build these

1697
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:01,639
Speaker 1: heavy aras, no two errors alike, because they're just hammering

1698
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 1: them out. But they'll get up there and shoot that

1699
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:07,280
Speaker 1: era and do just like we do. They'll keep shortening

1700
01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: that shaft until it shoots straight. Now, they don't use

1701
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:15,599
Speaker 1: any fletching, but there foc on the post World War

1702
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:19,479
Speaker 1: two eras is even heavier. Most of those are above

1703
01:42:21,160 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 1: foc That's why I didn't get away with shooting them

1704
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:28,639
Speaker 1: with no fletching whatsoever. Plus the factor not going very fast,

1705
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 1: which decreases the wind shear on the on the broadhead. Uh.

1706
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 1: I didn't have any way to measure the velocity. I

1707
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:40,800
Speaker 1: didn't have a chronograph there or anything like that. And

1708
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: the bows both the pre World War two post World

1709
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 1: War two. Uh, they said the pre World War two

1710
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:51,280
Speaker 1: bowls were about as heavy. And just pulling it, I

1711
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:53,760
Speaker 1: would say it's in the eighty pound range is the

1712
01:42:53,840 --> 01:43:00,320
Speaker 1: typical boat um And the velocity I was the specter

1713
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:02,840
Speaker 1: is less than a hundred feet per second m hm.

1714
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:07,360
Speaker 1: And they consider out to twenty five meters good shooting range.

1715
01:43:08,360 --> 01:43:10,800
Speaker 1: And these guys are deadly with him. What are they hunting?

1716
01:43:11,479 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 1: Roosa deer and pigs? Those are the two commons. Roosa

1717
01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:20,400
Speaker 1: deer live out in bald open country floodplains. The only

1718
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:22,519
Speaker 1: stalking youn do is just the role of the ground.

1719
01:43:23,400 --> 01:43:26,519
Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, they generally stalk three guys at

1720
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:29,599
Speaker 1: a time, but only one shoots. And I watched them

1721
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:31,719
Speaker 1: went out with one hunt and watched them from distance

1722
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:34,280
Speaker 1: with the blocktors, I probably wouldn't get enough stalker to

1723
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 1: stay with them. And uh, they it's about a twenty

1724
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 1: five yards shot the guy took. Now, they traditionally carry

1725
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 1: three eras all three will be different and a blunt.

1726
01:43:47,080 --> 01:43:51,639
Speaker 1: And he took his heaviest era, which was about grains,

1727
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,719
Speaker 1: is the one he chose to shoot, and plump drives

1728
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: this big head all the way sticking out the other

1729
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:02,880
Speaker 1: side of the atom. Of course, the shaft is great, big.

1730
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 1: It stops at the shaft but points long enough it's

1731
01:44:06,200 --> 01:44:08,479
Speaker 1: coming out to the other side of the rooster. Dear. Yeah,

1732
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 1: when and when docs saying the points long, he's like showing, yeah,

1733
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 1: the short ones will be about a foot. Wellmber, those

1734
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:19,439
Speaker 1: boys in Guyana when they had the like the tape

1735
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 1: year points yeah, I mean it's like, I don't know,

1736
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:26,599
Speaker 1: eleven twelve inches of hammered thin steel. And I asked

1737
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:28,439
Speaker 1: the guy. He had the best answer I've ever heard.

1738
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:31,840
Speaker 1: I asked him he was one of the few that

1739
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 1: spoke in English, and why he chose that are out

1740
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 1: of his three because he was the heaviest area he

1741
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:53,840
Speaker 1: had and the best answers there was works best all right,

1742
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:59,960
Speaker 1: Number eight, Okay, the shaft profile, we actually touched him.

1743
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 1: We've talked about the parallel shaft, the taper shaft, and

1744
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:06,720
Speaker 1: the barrel taper shaft. That's what we're looking at. Their

1745
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 1: Then the taper shaft works the best parallel shaft as

1746
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:14,519
Speaker 1: long as it's not bigger than the farrel works really well.

1747
01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:18,280
Speaker 1: It's probably the standard most people would go by. And

1748
01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:22,920
Speaker 1: the barrel taper shaft is definitely the worst, no question

1749
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:28,639
Speaker 1: about it. And uh oh yeah, that's enough on that one.

1750
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:30,880
Speaker 1: Then we talked about the broad head and an air

1751
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,679
Speaker 1: of silhouette, and we touched on that too. You want

1752
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:39,200
Speaker 1: the smoothest transition you can get. You don't want any lumps, bumps,

1753
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:46,639
Speaker 1: spot wells, uh trash, abrupt transitions and stealth bomber other

1754
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 1: than the step down you might get just back of

1755
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:52,600
Speaker 1: the farrel to the shaft. You do not want a

1756
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 1: bump on that era if you can avoid it. Sometimes

1757
01:45:56,439 --> 01:45:58,519
Speaker 1: you can't avoid it, like put that old turbulator on there.

1758
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 1: But that's a little We actually used model airplane pin

1759
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 1: stripe that's about six minute wide, no maybe even smaller

1760
01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:13,400
Speaker 1: than that, very narrow, just enough to disrupt that lambent

1761
01:46:13,479 --> 01:46:17,679
Speaker 1: or airflow. You remember, remember delta broadheads from a long

1762
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:21,160
Speaker 1: time ago. I have a deer skull that's got one

1763
01:46:21,160 --> 01:46:23,800
Speaker 1: of those rattling around inside the dad shot in the

1764
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 1: shot the deer in the forehead, um it has serrated bleeders,

1765
01:46:28,520 --> 01:46:33,599
Speaker 1: so it's got double beveled. But then they would put

1766
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:37,400
Speaker 1: little bleeders there and the bleeders are serrated. Uh, you

1767
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:41,920
Speaker 1: don't like that profile because that's that's a double sin,

1768
01:46:42,120 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 1: right said. So it made it past that because they

1769
01:46:45,560 --> 01:46:48,320
Speaker 1: had a heck of a bump. Yeah no, it's it's

1770
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 1: rattling around and it's awesome. Yeah, Well, I prob they

1771
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,519
Speaker 1: had They knew where a deer was feeding alongside a

1772
01:46:56,680 --> 01:47:01,680
Speaker 1: road and it was very accustomed to vehicular traffic. So

1773
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:03,560
Speaker 1: he had his friend. He opened the door on a

1774
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:07,360
Speaker 1: van and he had his friend drive very slowly. He

1775
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:09,920
Speaker 1: rolled out of the moving van with the with the

1776
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:12,880
Speaker 1: re curve, and then that dud would just watched cars

1777
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 1: go by. And he rolled out of the van while

1778
01:47:14,960 --> 01:47:16,720
Speaker 1: I was moving, rolls up and shot and she like

1779
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:18,800
Speaker 1: took notice something she had swung her head around. It

1780
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:21,840
Speaker 1: punched right in the forehead. So I gotta hang it

1781
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:26,360
Speaker 1: on my wall with that thing. Guy. Only other guy

1782
01:47:26,439 --> 01:47:29,280
Speaker 1: in my county that but one beside me shot one

1783
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:32,439
Speaker 1: in the forehead, did not get it. It ran off

1784
01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:38,439
Speaker 1: for the air across fifty yards open field by a unicorn.

1785
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: That does that does a lot of good for pr

1786
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:43,040
Speaker 1: Can you can you touch on I guess while we're

1787
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:46,920
Speaker 1: talking about bleeder blades, just why I guess I can

1788
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:48,920
Speaker 1: tell you why people think they're good right because it

1789
01:47:49,439 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 1: gives you, like another access of a cut. There's more

1790
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,720
Speaker 1: things they have lost, the premise of it. I had.

1791
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:58,240
Speaker 1: I had the honor of actually hunting with Fred there.

1792
01:47:59,160 --> 01:48:01,479
Speaker 1: I heard him tell list around the campfire. I had

1793
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:05,200
Speaker 1: lunch with him and yeah, nice guy Acroan Ohio. He uh.

1794
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:08,640
Speaker 1: He said that the bleeder, the original bleeder blade if

1795
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:11,280
Speaker 1: you've seen the original bear razor heads were made out

1796
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:15,120
Speaker 1: of that hard blue carbon steel. He said. The purpose

1797
01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:17,840
Speaker 1: of that is as soon as it hits a hard

1798
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:21,760
Speaker 1: surface like a bone, its shatters, then the broad hid

1799
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:25,960
Speaker 1: can carry on like a normal single blade broadhead is

1800
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:29,639
Speaker 1: only to open a bigger hole in the soft tissue

1801
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 1: to reduce the drag of the shaft. Where you hoping,

1802
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:37,000
Speaker 1: Fred Bear, he came to the least that Bob Lee

1803
01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:40,880
Speaker 1: had Uh sod Ben Pierson, Yeah, I gotta be good,

1804
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 1: pretty good friends with Ben Pierson. I picked up a

1805
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:48,000
Speaker 1: lot of valuable shooting information from him. So the blades

1806
01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:53,080
Speaker 1: just got misnamed. Well, no, people said oh, these blades

1807
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:55,360
Speaker 1: break off and they leave blades in the meat, and

1808
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:57,640
Speaker 1: somebody made eat them. So they started to make him

1809
01:48:57,640 --> 01:48:59,600
Speaker 1: out of stuff that would ben and then destroyed the

1810
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: whole inceptive at working. Now I just increase error drag

1811
01:49:04,080 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 1: and you just ruined your penetration. But that wasn't the

1812
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:13,160
Speaker 1: intent when Fred Bare designed him. He had the design right,

1813
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:15,559
Speaker 1: if you're gonna use a bleeder blade, that's the one

1814
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:20,519
Speaker 1: you want. And so bleeder blades they're advertised or put

1815
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:25,879
Speaker 1: onto broadheads. Now they're just reducing your drag. But they've

1816
01:49:25,920 --> 01:49:28,000
Speaker 1: been pretty easy, most of them, because the very thing

1817
01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:32,880
Speaker 1: instead of breaking shattering like the original bleeder blades on

1818
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:36,439
Speaker 1: the bear razor head, they've been once you could be

1819
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:38,679
Speaker 1: in like that tiny tip Ben, when we're talking about

1820
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:43,519
Speaker 1: just they I mean almost as small you can hardly

1821
01:49:43,560 --> 01:49:49,920
Speaker 1: see it. That's looses of the penetration. Just that little band.

1822
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 1: And what's the band of any kind gonna do. It's

1823
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,760
Speaker 1: going to read that direct the path of that era.

1824
01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:58,559
Speaker 1: What's that gonna do? The shaft, Now, the shaft has

1825
01:49:58,600 --> 01:50:01,120
Speaker 1: got to try to make this be in pushing all

1826
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:06,200
Speaker 1: that tissue, it just kills your penetration. It just doesn't

1827
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:10,479
Speaker 1: work at all. That's why structural integrity is the number

1828
01:50:10,520 --> 01:50:18,120
Speaker 1: one thing. Okay, we're down number ten, which we've already

1829
01:50:18,120 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 1: touched on, is going through the type of edge bevel

1830
01:50:22,240 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 1: through soft tissue. I thought that was earlier on the thing. No,

1831
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:26,960
Speaker 1: we just got off on it because we were talking

1832
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:29,880
Speaker 1: about edge thickness and stuff. That's why don't remember me

1833
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:32,320
Speaker 1: saying I thought you you described for like it was

1834
01:50:32,479 --> 01:50:36,720
Speaker 1: for A, B and C. No, it is just we

1835
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:39,640
Speaker 1: we just got off on it. So way down to

1836
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:43,880
Speaker 1: number ten, the type of edge bevel you do get

1837
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 1: an increase in penetration. And we used it with different profiles, broadheads,

1838
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:52,840
Speaker 1: identical identical error set ups. You know, compared double bevel

1839
01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:55,880
Speaker 1: to single bevel, you get an increase in penetration even

1840
01:50:55,920 --> 01:50:59,000
Speaker 1: a soft tissue with a single bevel. And this was

1841
01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:01,560
Speaker 1: one of the things in the testing that had a

1842
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:08,880
Speaker 1: hundred percent frequency. It happened every time and looking at

1843
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 1: no matter what you hit, yeah with well a soft

1844
01:51:13,280 --> 01:51:16,759
Speaker 1: tissue with bone, it's even more start because the single

1845
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 1: bevel torqus and pops that bone. You get a massive

1846
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:27,720
Speaker 1: increase in average penetration. Are mean or media median or minimum,

1847
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, any any of the factors you want to

1848
01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:32,720
Speaker 1: take out maximum penetration on every area. You can look

1849
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:35,439
Speaker 1: at that, you know, full graph, compare any of them

1850
01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:39,479
Speaker 1: back and forth. You always have a higher percentage of

1851
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:43,479
Speaker 1: penetration with a single vel, and it was frequency in

1852
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:49,160
Speaker 1: the testing. So it is important, particularly on bone though,

1853
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:51,880
Speaker 1: that's where it makes the biggest difference, and a lot

1854
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:55,439
Speaker 1: of that is the higher mechanical advantage of the edge

1855
01:51:55,680 --> 01:52:00,679
Speaker 1: less resistance. Going through slice is easier, it is more work.

1856
01:52:01,439 --> 01:52:07,920
Speaker 1: Was he applied force? It penetrates more, just as simple physics, No,

1857
01:52:08,680 --> 01:52:11,240
Speaker 1: nothing magic about it. I want to remember how we

1858
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:14,760
Speaker 1: wedge that traditional bit in between whatever, like eight and nine.

1859
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:21,760
Speaker 1: I want to wedge something in here. Okay, talk about um.

1860
01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:26,080
Speaker 1: Apparently you're talking to Yanni about this about shooting animals

1861
01:52:26,120 --> 01:52:28,960
Speaker 1: and propping them up and shooting them. Yeah, that's the

1862
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:31,160
Speaker 1: way we did most of the testing on freshy, cold animals.

1863
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:33,600
Speaker 1: You put the animal down, you got thirty minutes. So

1864
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:35,800
Speaker 1: this is just so again, let's bring it back to

1865
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:39,000
Speaker 1: like the beginning. This is like when you talk about

1866
01:52:39,080 --> 01:52:42,320
Speaker 1: the study. This is the study. This isn't like the

1867
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 1: last you were because earlier you said, oh, the last

1868
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:48,920
Speaker 1: six hundred animals that have come in. Those animals are

1869
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:53,920
Speaker 1: separate database, and we used the hunted animals as a

1870
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 1: cross reference. Are we seeing the same thing that the

1871
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 1: setup shots on these fresh down day animals are indicating?

1872
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:04,280
Speaker 1: And yes we did. So this was this was what

1873
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:07,840
Speaker 1: you called the the tallest study. No, the tall study

1874
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:12,400
Speaker 1: is where it started with. And those were actually hunted animals.

1875
01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:17,280
Speaker 1: So then you went to a place where, like explained,

1876
01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:19,560
Speaker 1: because we still I don't think anybody knows exactly like

1877
01:53:20,160 --> 01:53:23,280
Speaker 1: when the study happened, what it was, where you were,

1878
01:53:23,400 --> 01:53:25,240
Speaker 1: what the animals were. All I said at the time

1879
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:27,479
Speaker 1: I got through with it a tall study, I had

1880
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:32,519
Speaker 1: more questions than I did going in, and so I said, okay,

1881
01:53:32,720 --> 01:53:35,240
Speaker 1: you know, I want to carry on with this. And

1882
01:53:35,439 --> 01:53:40,240
Speaker 1: so I would do as many autopsies on animals as

1883
01:53:40,320 --> 01:53:43,040
Speaker 1: I could. I made several trips back and forth Africa.

1884
01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:46,280
Speaker 1: But then it really kicked up when I retired, and

1885
01:53:47,160 --> 01:53:50,360
Speaker 1: the first four years I was over there, I spent

1886
01:53:50,439 --> 01:53:52,960
Speaker 1: at least three hundred days a year hunting. Now that

1887
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:56,280
Speaker 1: was either guiding or which I didn't do a lot

1888
01:53:56,360 --> 01:54:00,360
Speaker 1: of are are hunting on my own, shooting animals, and

1889
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:03,599
Speaker 1: UH would do buffalo whenever we could, like probably we'd

1890
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:06,760
Speaker 1: go into Mozambie can do the buffalo over there, uh

1891
01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:11,080
Speaker 1: and collect as much dat as we possibly could. Then

1892
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,320
Speaker 1: after I got thrown out of Zimbabwe when they kicked

1893
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:18,400
Speaker 1: all the Americans out uh that weren't didn't have permanent residency,

1894
01:54:19,320 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 1: I came back to the state's regroup and went down

1895
01:54:22,360 --> 01:54:25,720
Speaker 1: to Australia and spent time in Australia, New Zealand and

1896
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:30,080
Speaker 1: New Guinea, all that area down there. But through contacts

1897
01:54:30,720 --> 01:54:32,440
Speaker 1: I ran in a guy he used to be the

1898
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:39,320
Speaker 1: chief game ranger up in Kacadoo Park uh and Australia

1899
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:44,760
Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory. He shot who knows, thirty forty

1900
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,560
Speaker 1: thousand buffalo you know, back when they're trying to eradicate

1901
01:54:47,640 --> 01:54:49,680
Speaker 1: because they're like a nine native. Yeah, so they were

1902
01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:52,960
Speaker 1: for years tried to eradicate him and his his son

1903
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:57,240
Speaker 1: is still one of the park rangers there, probably thirty

1904
01:54:57,320 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 1: forty of them. And because they out him from everything, cars, helicopters, boats, anywhere,

1905
01:55:03,120 --> 01:55:05,560
Speaker 1: they could shoot him of any any buffalo you saw

1906
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:09,360
Speaker 1: you shot, uh, And we're not able to knock the

1907
01:55:09,480 --> 01:55:14,640
Speaker 1: population down. So after he retired, he talked the government

1908
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:18,800
Speaker 1: of the Fishing Game Department into establishing a study where

1909
01:55:19,080 --> 01:55:21,800
Speaker 1: he fenced in I don't know, it's about seven miles

1910
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:25,240
Speaker 1: by seven miles high fence. Uh And he's trying to

1911
01:55:25,320 --> 01:55:28,600
Speaker 1: determine the carrying capacity without damaging the habitat for the

1912
01:55:28,640 --> 01:55:31,760
Speaker 1: buffalo and he has to take about five hundred a

1913
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:36,720
Speaker 1: year off two keep the population at a level that

1914
01:55:36,880 --> 01:55:39,640
Speaker 1: won't damage the habitat, or at least they think it's

1915
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:43,640
Speaker 1: not gonna damage it. And uh so I got and

1916
01:55:43,840 --> 01:55:47,200
Speaker 1: and and he's sort of a reclusive don't take to

1917
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:50,400
Speaker 1: everybody and think I'll live in the middle of nowhere.

1918
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:55,000
Speaker 1: He's really in the middle of nowhere. And uh we

1919
01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:57,640
Speaker 1: just hit it off. And he used to do a

1920
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:00,480
Speaker 1: lot of testing while he's calling all these animals for

1921
01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:04,640
Speaker 1: Woodley bullets because he's got a huge collection of firearms,

1922
01:56:04,760 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 1: a lot of double rifles, British shotguns. Oh, I mean,

1923
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:11,920
Speaker 1: he's got a literally see container full of them. And

1924
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:16,120
Speaker 1: uh so, I you know, when I went up there

1925
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:18,800
Speaker 1: and met him through through a client that I had

1926
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:24,280
Speaker 1: guided in Australia that knew it, and uh we we

1927
01:56:24,400 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 1: hit it off. And he said, you know, yeah, listen

1928
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,280
Speaker 1: let's come on up and said when when we're shooting

1929
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:32,600
Speaker 1: buffalo year around, said, come up and we'll you know,

1930
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 1: we'll shoot the buffalo. We'll set up you know, when

1931
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:37,440
Speaker 1: you can test your arabs on him. And he thought

1932
01:56:37,440 --> 01:56:41,040
Speaker 1: it was fascinating. So the other guys work for the

1933
01:56:41,800 --> 01:56:43,680
Speaker 1: park there, the other game rangers, and had a lot

1934
01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:46,240
Speaker 1: of them come out and watch. They were absolutely fascinating

1935
01:56:46,320 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 1: what we're doing with eras. And uh so I would

1936
01:56:49,480 --> 01:56:52,600
Speaker 1: go up there three months a year and we would

1937
01:56:52,600 --> 01:56:55,520
Speaker 1: do as many buffaloes as we could do. And I

1938
01:56:55,600 --> 01:56:57,920
Speaker 1: could do because of all the stuff you got to do,

1939
01:56:58,040 --> 01:57:01,720
Speaker 1: the record keeping, the reaching a broad heads, the building

1940
01:57:01,760 --> 01:57:04,280
Speaker 1: of new error setups and things you want to test

1941
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:07,360
Speaker 1: the most I can do with one buffalo every three

1942
01:57:07,440 --> 01:57:11,600
Speaker 1: days and and get done. Uh. And we would go

1943
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:14,520
Speaker 1: out and he would get on the four wheel er.

1944
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,680
Speaker 1: I would follow him and and uh, we find a buffalo,

1945
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:20,560
Speaker 1: will cary all the gear with us, and he'd shoot

1946
01:57:20,600 --> 01:57:24,440
Speaker 1: the buffalo, put it down usually head shot, next shot

1947
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:27,680
Speaker 1: something like that. We get there, prop it up, do

1948
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:31,280
Speaker 1: our shooting, and then collect all of our data. And

1949
01:57:31,400 --> 01:57:34,000
Speaker 1: then I would go back and you know, do die

1950
01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:37,480
Speaker 1: and carry parts of it back to dissect and uh,

1951
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:40,880
Speaker 1: we're had error stuck in the bones and stuff like that,

1952
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:44,800
Speaker 1: and and uh that I'd write all the recordings down

1953
01:57:44,880 --> 01:57:52,320
Speaker 1: and then resharpen everything, get ready to variables variables on there.

1954
01:57:52,640 --> 01:57:57,080
Speaker 1: And that's everything from uh you know the bowl, uh,

1955
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:01,120
Speaker 1: the launch kinetic energy to launch momentum, the impact momentum,

1956
01:58:01,480 --> 01:58:05,040
Speaker 1: what tip of animal it was, what distance was shot at, uh,

1957
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 1: what bones were hit. So you've got to make it

1958
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:12,440
Speaker 1: easier because you know, I didn't have a true database

1959
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:17,080
Speaker 1: computer wise, so I have a field there like it's

1960
01:58:17,120 --> 01:58:21,160
Speaker 1: this entrance rib hit. Yes, no industry of penetrating and

1961
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:24,760
Speaker 1: penetrate means passed completely through if it just sticks out

1962
01:58:24,760 --> 01:58:27,640
Speaker 1: together side, he didn't penetrate it. The bone stopped the hair.

1963
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean the broadhead had passed through the whole, because

1964
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:32,400
Speaker 1: the broad head had to completely pass through the bone

1965
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:36,360
Speaker 1: to consider it penetrating. And then you would carry on

1966
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 1: through other bones and organs of what was hit. You know,

1967
01:58:40,480 --> 01:58:43,640
Speaker 1: the extra ribs it hit was scapula hit. You know

1968
01:58:43,680 --> 01:58:46,840
Speaker 1: it was a spinal he had spinal process um you know,

1969
01:58:46,840 --> 01:58:50,640
Speaker 1: depending on what you're shooting at, pelvic girdle, neck, vertebra. Uh,

1970
01:58:51,120 --> 01:58:53,600
Speaker 1: So you've got all these bones in there, so you

1971
01:58:53,640 --> 01:58:56,640
Speaker 1: can go through it and look for something in a

1972
01:58:56,760 --> 01:58:59,400
Speaker 1: in a It's in a spreadsheet, so I had limited

1973
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:02,960
Speaker 1: search if ability. But I could say, you know, all

1974
01:59:03,200 --> 01:59:11,040
Speaker 1: of the trophy sized bull um asian buffalo uh hit

1975
01:59:12,240 --> 01:59:19,280
Speaker 1: from a twenty degree angle uh impacting the ribs, and

1976
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:21,840
Speaker 1: I'd get all of those, and then I can go

1977
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:23,840
Speaker 1: back and get the same thing and say, give me

1978
01:59:23,880 --> 01:59:26,520
Speaker 1: all the single bevels that did that. Give me the

1979
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:29,640
Speaker 1: results from all of the UH E f O C

1980
01:59:29,840 --> 01:59:34,240
Speaker 1: eras that did that, or the ULTRAFC eras, and that

1981
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:38,480
Speaker 1: way you can start comparing stuff. Okay, here's averages for this,

1982
01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:41,760
Speaker 1: here's average and take out. Okay, these are double bevel broadheads,

1983
01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:44,760
Speaker 1: let's get those, you know, let's get single bevel broadheads.

1984
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:47,120
Speaker 1: And so you can start getting all these sets of

1985
01:59:47,240 --> 01:59:49,640
Speaker 1: data to compare back and forth to each other, where

1986
01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:51,640
Speaker 1: you can look at what was the minimum penetration, what

1987
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 1: was the maximum uh. And then you've got fields and

1988
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:56,760
Speaker 1: every where you described stuff too that really didn't fit in,

1989
01:59:57,280 --> 02:00:00,280
Speaker 1: like bone skips and things like that. U up. So

1990
02:00:00,360 --> 02:00:04,880
Speaker 1: you got one field that's just free field, described the shot,

1991
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:08,160
Speaker 1: the tissue damage, the whatever you wanted to describe it

1992
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:11,960
Speaker 1: there and uh on that one when you when we've

1993
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:15,160
Speaker 1: got links for photos, I said, it's a bad photographer.

1994
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:17,160
Speaker 1: Didn't have anything like that. So I had to keep

1995
02:00:17,240 --> 02:00:20,320
Speaker 1: tracking what was what with photos just you know, in

1996
02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:24,960
Speaker 1: a book, so just one like one aspect of this.

1997
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:28,560
Speaker 1: What were the when you were doing this? What were

1998
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:32,600
Speaker 1: the shot distances for instances uniform? All of those are

1999
02:00:32,640 --> 02:00:36,520
Speaker 1: taken at a measured twenty yards. And then how many

2000
02:00:38,360 --> 02:00:43,320
Speaker 1: total shots wouldn't probably have five thousand and how many

2001
02:00:43,360 --> 02:00:47,360
Speaker 1: animals I don't know, never counted him. And but you

2002
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,440
Speaker 1: had thirty minutes before Rigor would impact though you had

2003
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:52,920
Speaker 1: about thirty minutes. Now in warm weather you might have

2004
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:55,480
Speaker 1: a little bit more than that. But we we put

2005
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:57,320
Speaker 1: it down in thirty minutes, and we stayed in thirty

2006
02:00:57,320 --> 02:01:00,960
Speaker 1: minutes because even in what we cool weather down there,

2007
02:01:01,240 --> 02:01:06,600
Speaker 1: because I went once in December, I'll never do it

2008
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:10,960
Speaker 1: again to the Northern Territory of Australia. That was miserable.

2009
02:01:11,720 --> 02:01:13,480
Speaker 1: We know a Rigor Moore to specialists, if you ever

2010
02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:16,920
Speaker 1: want to talk to him, there you go University Nebraska. Yeah,

2011
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:22,920
Speaker 1: Dr Chris Calkins, but he's picky about Caulkins or Calkins, Caulkins,

2012
02:01:24,280 --> 02:01:27,520
Speaker 1: rigor Moore to specialist. There you go. Yeah, well we

2013
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:30,360
Speaker 1: did ours on the basis of okay, you know in

2014
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:33,720
Speaker 1: the early days. Yeah, we get past this. Okay, we're

2015
02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:37,200
Speaker 1: seeing a difference in outcomes, so we gotta cut this

2016
02:01:37,320 --> 02:01:41,440
Speaker 1: off here these so these way this this didn't doesn't

2017
02:01:41,480 --> 02:01:43,880
Speaker 1: correlate with what we got before. Okay, what number were on?

2018
02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 1: Where are we design? We should have done this interstitial

2019
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:56,120
Speaker 1: thing idea? Yeah, dude, what we did was tip of

2020
02:01:56,160 --> 02:02:01,640
Speaker 1: design was I took a series of broadheads Dennick Lara setups.

2021
02:02:02,560 --> 02:02:05,400
Speaker 1: These are all single blade broadheads. Let's say the number again,

2022
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:10,120
Speaker 1: what number number eleven? And what is it? Tip design tip? Okay,

2023
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:14,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. And what we did was put different tip profiles,

2024
02:02:15,960 --> 02:02:18,760
Speaker 1: and we use seven different tip profiles because that goes

2025
02:02:18,760 --> 02:02:23,320
Speaker 1: against your whole mechanical advantage thing. Reason for that, we

2026
02:02:23,440 --> 02:02:25,800
Speaker 1: were looking at a number of things. He's holding up,

2027
02:02:26,240 --> 02:02:28,840
Speaker 1: he's looking at it. We're looking at a point that

2028
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:31,680
Speaker 1: has a earlier what he would describe as a very

2029
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:35,320
Speaker 1: high mechanical advantage angle profile or whatever the hell. But

2030
02:02:35,360 --> 02:02:37,120
Speaker 1: then it's got a little chisel point on it, like

2031
02:02:38,640 --> 02:02:43,040
Speaker 1: chisel is different. Name these things. What's that like knives?

2032
02:02:43,120 --> 02:02:45,880
Speaker 1: They call that what tanto? It's got a tanto point.

2033
02:02:45,880 --> 02:02:48,520
Speaker 1: It looks like two tanto points put back to back.

2034
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:51,200
Speaker 1: So that's that's what it named. And that name is

2035
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:54,400
Speaker 1: called on It just stuck through the years, Uh, just

2036
02:02:54,440 --> 02:02:55,800
Speaker 1: because I had to have something to call it when

2037
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:59,840
Speaker 1: I was doing the testing. Um. But we tried all

2038
02:02:59,880 --> 02:03:03,000
Speaker 1: the different points, and we were looking at durability and

2039
02:03:03,240 --> 02:03:07,760
Speaker 1: skip angle. Now skip angle is a big important factor.

2040
02:03:08,040 --> 02:03:11,160
Speaker 1: The others like a skip like all hell, it doesn't. No,

2041
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:14,680
Speaker 1: this actually was the best design of all at the

2042
02:03:14,760 --> 02:03:18,920
Speaker 1: lowest skip angle and the highest durability of all the

2043
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:22,240
Speaker 1: ones we tested. Now, if you could get a needle

2044
02:03:22,360 --> 02:03:27,920
Speaker 1: tip that wouldn't damage, it might do as well. But

2045
02:03:28,040 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 1: I never could find one that didn't damage well the

2046
02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:35,200
Speaker 1: way until different materials come. Well, this this came by

2047
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:39,720
Speaker 1: far the best, and we're one of the things gonna

2048
02:03:39,760 --> 02:03:41,920
Speaker 1: look at and I tried to determine it and we're

2049
02:03:41,960 --> 02:03:43,480
Speaker 1: gonna be able to find out with that high speed

2050
02:03:43,600 --> 02:03:51,600
Speaker 1: camera is I tried different sharpening profiles on this tanto tip. Uh,

2051
02:03:53,280 --> 02:03:57,120
Speaker 1: single bevel on the same side, single bevel on the

2052
02:03:57,160 --> 02:04:01,520
Speaker 1: opposite side, and double bevel, and I was never able

2053
02:04:01,600 --> 02:04:05,080
Speaker 1: to tell which one truly worked the best, particularly for

2054
02:04:05,160 --> 02:04:10,280
Speaker 1: skip angle. What is skip angle? Well, when the an

2055
02:04:10,320 --> 02:04:15,879
Speaker 1: airy hits the bone, most bones are designed to redirect forces.

2056
02:04:15,960 --> 02:04:17,680
Speaker 1: They're they're not only just hold the body up to

2057
02:04:17,720 --> 02:04:22,760
Speaker 1: protect the body, so they curve multiple directions. So it's

2058
02:04:22,800 --> 02:04:25,040
Speaker 1: pretty rare to be able to hit a bone square.

2059
02:04:25,360 --> 02:04:27,960
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons the buffalo it's such a

2060
02:04:28,080 --> 02:04:32,480
Speaker 1: nice test ad because they have very broad, wide ribs,

2061
02:04:32,920 --> 02:04:37,000
Speaker 1: so you can almost get a square impact. Or like

2062
02:04:37,200 --> 02:04:40,240
Speaker 1: we did, you put a protractor out here, You take

2063
02:04:40,280 --> 02:04:43,400
Speaker 1: a string, you measure the angle, and you shoot at

2064
02:04:43,960 --> 02:04:48,440
Speaker 1: various So the skip angle describes the angle of the bone,

2065
02:04:48,680 --> 02:04:51,800
Speaker 1: not the angle of impact between the broad heads and

2066
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:56,240
Speaker 1: the bone. Yes, and that's really important, like guys hung

2067
02:04:56,320 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 1: out tree stands and stuff, because now they're looking down

2068
02:04:59,240 --> 02:05:03,200
Speaker 1: at ribs and think of the curves that are involved.

2069
02:05:04,160 --> 02:05:07,440
Speaker 1: And it's not uncommon to hit one of those ribs

2070
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:11,040
Speaker 1: and have the air actually right around the outside curve

2071
02:05:11,920 --> 02:05:14,040
Speaker 1: of those ribs and go into the ground. And a

2072
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:16,560
Speaker 1: lot of people it happens so fast they think they've

2073
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:19,040
Speaker 1: shot through. The animal in the air never got into

2074
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:21,000
Speaker 1: the chest cabin. You just wanted the skin. I think

2075
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:24,520
Speaker 1: people from eating beef ribs. You know, people get a

2076
02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:26,600
Speaker 1: wrong idea what a deer's rib looks like. When you

2077
02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:29,200
Speaker 1: actually take a deer's rib out, that's some bitches round. Yeah,

2078
02:05:29,800 --> 02:05:32,720
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not a flat face. Most ribs are

2079
02:05:32,840 --> 02:05:36,520
Speaker 1: that way. Yea. Yeah, the bigger the animal gets, the

2080
02:05:36,560 --> 02:05:40,040
Speaker 1: flatter the rib. Elephant ribbs got a big flat giraffe,

2081
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:45,480
Speaker 1: big flat, hippo's big flat buffalo rude to smaller flat.

2082
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:52,720
Speaker 1: It's pretty round. Yeah, the smaller the animal gets, the

2083
02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:56,160
Speaker 1: more round they are. Brown bears almost perfectly round, right,

2084
02:05:56,440 --> 02:05:58,040
Speaker 1: it's real round. I feel like this would be a

2085
02:05:58,120 --> 02:06:01,640
Speaker 1: good time to talk about bone busting arrow and whether

2086
02:06:01,880 --> 02:06:05,520
Speaker 1: it's a real thing or if it's a myth. One

2087
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:13,040
Speaker 1: more and we'll do. Just didn't because the next thing

2088
02:06:13,160 --> 02:06:18,680
Speaker 1: coming up factor number twelve at the bottom of the list,

2089
02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 1: because it's only important when you hit a heavy bone.

2090
02:06:22,920 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 1: Is an erraw mass or an arrow weight above the

2091
02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:31,120
Speaker 1: heavy bone threshold? Read that one of me again. It's

2092
02:06:31,440 --> 02:06:33,400
Speaker 1: arraw weight if you want to think of it that way,

2093
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:38,480
Speaker 1: above the heavy bone threshold. Okay, that's gonna require a

2094
02:06:38,520 --> 02:06:41,080
Speaker 1: lot of explanation. It does, and Most people have it

2095
02:06:41,280 --> 02:06:46,000
Speaker 1: wrong because they read what's there and they see six

2096
02:06:46,440 --> 02:06:50,440
Speaker 1: fifty grains heavy bone threshold and they think, Okay, I

2097
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:54,480
Speaker 1: got six grains air. It's gonna break heavy bone every time. Wrong.

2098
02:06:55,920 --> 02:06:59,520
Speaker 1: What we found is that every broadhead, doesn't matter how

2099
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:04,680
Speaker 1: poor it is or how good it is, shows an increase,

2100
02:07:04,760 --> 02:07:08,760
Speaker 1: a marked increase in the bone breaching rate of heavy

2101
02:07:08,800 --> 02:07:13,000
Speaker 1: bone when the air and mass reaches right at the

2102
02:07:13,080 --> 02:07:16,880
Speaker 1: sifty grain, and it's literally within a few grains one

2103
02:07:16,920 --> 02:07:19,680
Speaker 1: way or the other of the six fifty. And it

2104
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:22,760
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to vary whether you're shooting a compound or

2105
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:26,240
Speaker 1: whether you're shooting a longboat or recurve with it. Very

2106
02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:28,280
Speaker 1: if you shot at at a hundred ft a second

2107
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:32,000
Speaker 1: ort a second, not not much at all, doesn't seem

2108
02:07:32,040 --> 02:07:35,320
Speaker 1: to make any difference at all. Uh, when we've tried it,

2109
02:07:35,360 --> 02:07:37,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna do some more of it. It's some more

2110
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:41,600
Speaker 1: verification of it, but at some point it should if

2111
02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:46,520
Speaker 1: we can get enough force, it should make a difference.

2112
02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:53,160
Speaker 1: But so far we don't have that. Um the basic premises,

2113
02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:56,360
Speaker 1: like we're talking about, the bones are there to protect

2114
02:07:56,400 --> 02:08:00,200
Speaker 1: the body, so they have all of these curves and

2115
02:08:00,400 --> 02:08:04,360
Speaker 1: bands but they also have articulations, so if they move,

2116
02:08:05,240 --> 02:08:09,000
Speaker 1: they also are flexible. They will flex. So when the

2117
02:08:09,240 --> 02:08:13,040
Speaker 1: error hits, it's got to push on this bone long

2118
02:08:13,160 --> 02:08:16,080
Speaker 1: enough to overcome the movement of the bone, the flexion

2119
02:08:16,120 --> 02:08:18,400
Speaker 1: of the bone before it ever starts to penetrate the bone.

2120
02:08:20,320 --> 02:08:24,360
Speaker 1: And that depends on how long it's able to push

2121
02:08:25,400 --> 02:08:32,400
Speaker 1: the impulse of force. And it's strictly weight related. So

2122
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:38,800
Speaker 1: if you took a real poor broad head, took a

2123
02:08:38,880 --> 02:08:43,200
Speaker 1: muzzy bad to the bone, Yeah, it's bad to the bone,

2124
02:08:43,240 --> 02:08:47,560
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, it's it's it's going to have a

2125
02:08:47,960 --> 02:08:53,160
Speaker 1: pretty low penetration in heavy bone. It's not a great

2126
02:08:53,160 --> 02:08:57,520
Speaker 1: broad head for breaching heavy bone, and it might give

2127
02:08:57,600 --> 02:09:03,920
Speaker 1: you blow blow the heavy bone threshold. Get it above

2128
02:09:03,960 --> 02:09:09,160
Speaker 1: the heavy bone threshold, it might jump to. But you

2129
02:09:09,280 --> 02:09:12,000
Speaker 1: take the best broadheads, and it doesn't matter if the

2130
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:17,520
Speaker 1: single bevel or double bevel. The best design broadheads good

2131
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:21,200
Speaker 1: mechanical advantage two point six or higher seemed to be

2132
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:23,200
Speaker 1: where the cutoff was on. There was the two point

2133
02:09:23,280 --> 02:09:28,920
Speaker 1: six uh bolow the heavy bone threshold. They might have

2134
02:09:29,120 --> 02:09:34,280
Speaker 1: a seven eight bone breaching right you hit the threshold,

2135
02:09:37,920 --> 02:09:41,400
Speaker 1: it is consistently and it doesn't matter if I shoot

2136
02:09:41,440 --> 02:09:44,440
Speaker 1: it with a forty pound re curve or shoot it

2137
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:49,960
Speaker 1: with a compound. It worked. The foc of the ERA

2138
02:09:50,840 --> 02:09:54,720
Speaker 1: had no effect on heavy bone threshold strictly how long

2139
02:09:54,840 --> 02:09:59,600
Speaker 1: it was able to push on the bone. But once

2140
02:09:59,680 --> 02:10:03,280
Speaker 1: you can breach that bone, then the foc becomes really

2141
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:07,960
Speaker 1: important because the post breaching penetration is going to depend

2142
02:10:08,480 --> 02:10:10,800
Speaker 1: on that foc because now that air is flying again.

2143
02:10:11,120 --> 02:10:14,080
Speaker 1: It's flying while it's putting on that bone too, but

2144
02:10:14,160 --> 02:10:16,640
Speaker 1: as it's also going to slow down the back of it.

2145
02:10:16,720 --> 02:10:20,720
Speaker 1: Wanta Flex FLC has a lot of that reduced impact

2146
02:10:20,800 --> 02:10:23,480
Speaker 1: paradox we were talking about. So it's gonna cut down

2147
02:10:23,520 --> 02:10:26,600
Speaker 1: the drag a lot once we breached that bone. But

2148
02:10:27,120 --> 02:10:30,240
Speaker 1: that's where the heavy bone threshold comes in. It does

2149
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:32,960
Speaker 1: not mean that you can take a muzzy and put

2150
02:10:33,000 --> 02:10:35,400
Speaker 1: it on a six fifty grain ERA and go out

2151
02:10:35,440 --> 02:10:41,880
Speaker 1: and break health shoulders ain't gonna happen. But you put

2152
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:48,280
Speaker 1: a good broadhead, quality steel, durable spit shine dropped home

2153
02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:52,280
Speaker 1: durable point on there. That's not gonna be skitting off

2154
02:10:52,400 --> 02:10:59,720
Speaker 1: bones everywhere. And yes, when we looked at the penetration

2155
02:11:00,080 --> 02:11:05,879
Speaker 1: sumized eras these were all uh e f O c eras.

2156
02:11:06,800 --> 02:11:08,640
Speaker 1: I don't think rae ultra is in there at all,

2157
02:11:09,840 --> 02:11:13,400
Speaker 1: and we're using several different bows. We had a hundred

2158
02:11:13,560 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 1: and nineties six hundred ninety six shots, eighteen percent of

2159
02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:23,760
Speaker 1: those with a forty pound bare formula silver recurve traveling

2160
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:27,080
Speaker 1: at a velocity of a massive hundred and nineteen feet

2161
02:11:27,160 --> 02:11:32,160
Speaker 1: per second shot at twenty yards on buffalo, and go

2162
02:11:32,240 --> 02:11:34,160
Speaker 1: all the way up to eighty two pound bows. So

2163
02:11:34,200 --> 02:11:36,320
Speaker 1: we had we had the forty pound, we had a

2164
02:11:36,360 --> 02:11:40,640
Speaker 1: fifty four pound long bowl, we had a uh seventy pound,

2165
02:11:40,920 --> 02:11:45,080
Speaker 1: sixty four pound longbow, seventy pound long sixty two, sixty

2166
02:11:45,080 --> 02:11:47,800
Speaker 1: two pound longbow, seventy pound long bowl, and eighty two

2167
02:11:47,880 --> 02:11:53,400
Speaker 1: pound and all of these errors had a dent breaching

2168
02:11:53,520 --> 02:12:00,800
Speaker 1: rate hundred ninety six shots on trophy size consecutive consecutive

2169
02:12:01,160 --> 02:12:06,280
Speaker 1: trophy size buffalo. What bone this is the ribs, which

2170
02:12:06,400 --> 02:12:11,960
Speaker 1: is about eight inch eight tenths of an inch of

2171
02:12:12,080 --> 02:12:15,560
Speaker 1: pretty solid bone, so heavier than the scapul and the

2172
02:12:15,600 --> 02:12:19,280
Speaker 1: elk oh, yeah, heavier than the scapul on help absolutely,

2173
02:12:21,080 --> 02:12:24,200
Speaker 1: and all of these errors would have been every factor

2174
02:12:24,360 --> 02:12:32,320
Speaker 1: on there penetration maximized. Mm hmm Okay, let's do this

2175
02:12:32,400 --> 02:12:39,200
Speaker 1: real quick. What should what should folks be like? What

2176
02:12:39,240 --> 02:12:43,320
Speaker 1: should folks be using? Well, that depends on what they're

2177
02:12:43,320 --> 02:12:46,920
Speaker 1: willing to live with. Any factor you use, you think

2178
02:12:46,960 --> 02:12:50,000
Speaker 1: of these as a tool box. Any factor you put

2179
02:12:50,040 --> 02:12:52,200
Speaker 1: off that list and add to your error that you're

2180
02:12:52,240 --> 02:12:56,560
Speaker 1: currently using is going to improve the performance of that error.

2181
02:12:56,560 --> 02:12:58,880
Speaker 1: But what do you mean what they're willing to live with? Well,

2182
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:03,600
Speaker 1: some people won't. They have this mindset that, oh, if

2183
02:13:03,680 --> 02:13:07,240
Speaker 1: I shoot a six fifth grain Era, my trajectory is

2184
02:13:07,280 --> 02:13:09,520
Speaker 1: just gonna boom if I shoot you hear it all

2185
02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:12,080
Speaker 1: the time. If I shoot an e fo c Era,

2186
02:13:12,640 --> 02:13:14,960
Speaker 1: he's just gonna go out their nose dive. It doesn't.

2187
02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:18,200
Speaker 1: It actually shoots flatter. If you take two errors that

2188
02:13:18,320 --> 02:13:22,080
Speaker 1: are the exact same except for the foc shot out

2189
02:13:22,120 --> 02:13:25,440
Speaker 1: of the same boat, the foc or ultra e fo

2190
02:13:25,520 --> 02:13:29,240
Speaker 1: c era is going to shoot flatter, so because it's

2191
02:13:29,280 --> 02:13:32,120
Speaker 1: conserving energy from the paradox coming off of the boat. Yeah,

2192
02:13:32,160 --> 02:13:33,520
Speaker 1: do you I mean, do you think it's fair to

2193
02:13:33,600 --> 02:13:39,720
Speaker 1: say that people's um that people are prioritizing target, their

2194
02:13:39,760 --> 02:13:43,839
Speaker 1: prioritizing target shooting over killing, their prioritizing hitting the animals,

2195
02:13:43,920 --> 02:13:47,520
Speaker 1: that are killing the animal, and the emphasis needs to

2196
02:13:47,560 --> 02:13:52,480
Speaker 1: be on killing the animal. And there is what we

2197
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:53,960
Speaker 1: try to talk about, you know a little bit with

2198
02:13:54,080 --> 02:13:56,440
Speaker 1: some of the new stuff that we well, we've got

2199
02:13:56,480 --> 02:13:59,000
Speaker 1: a couple of the videos out now that that Darryl

2200
02:13:59,080 --> 02:14:05,080
Speaker 1: and Troy did. UH. The the parable of the shot,

2201
02:14:06,040 --> 02:14:09,640
Speaker 1: the lighter era as it goes out once it starts

2202
02:14:09,680 --> 02:14:14,839
Speaker 1: to lose velocity. The heavier era, even though it's slower,

2203
02:14:15,520 --> 02:14:17,920
Speaker 1: doesn't do that. It doesn't knows dive like that. It

2204
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:22,360
Speaker 1: carries it on through. So as you get to these

2205
02:14:22,480 --> 02:14:27,480
Speaker 1: longer ranges, it actually carries It's not not the big

2206
02:14:27,640 --> 02:14:30,640
Speaker 1: drop that people are expecting when you get out there.

2207
02:14:30,680 --> 02:14:33,880
Speaker 1: And this is some actual data using those Doppler uh

2208
02:14:34,280 --> 02:14:36,680
Speaker 1: and you a whole series of tuned arras, all all

2209
02:14:36,680 --> 02:14:39,960
Speaker 1: these tuned to the bows. So so we're starting to

2210
02:14:39,960 --> 02:14:42,920
Speaker 1: collect the hard data on this that is it's not

2211
02:14:43,120 --> 02:14:47,000
Speaker 1: what people are thinking is. And the pin gaps, if

2212
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:49,160
Speaker 1: you look at the pin gaps with the light eras

2213
02:14:49,200 --> 02:14:51,680
Speaker 1: they go like this like this, you get longer range,

2214
02:14:51,720 --> 02:14:54,680
Speaker 1: you get bigger and bigger pin gaps. With these heavy errors,

2215
02:14:54,760 --> 02:14:57,880
Speaker 1: you don't the pin gaps sticking system stay consistent all

2216
02:14:57,880 --> 02:15:01,200
Speaker 1: the way down because it's carrying that parable of the

2217
02:15:01,400 --> 02:15:04,720
Speaker 1: trajectory out better. You could probably explain this better than me,

2218
02:15:05,320 --> 02:15:07,680
Speaker 1: that my forte is from when it hitstilly gets out

2219
02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:13,840
Speaker 1: of them. So, uh, what would be like in your mind? Um,

2220
02:15:15,000 --> 02:15:17,000
Speaker 1: if you're just gonna throw something like hard and fasts,

2221
02:15:18,160 --> 02:15:21,040
Speaker 1: people should be thinking about if they're if they're focusing

2222
02:15:21,080 --> 02:15:23,640
Speaker 1: on killing the animal, they should be thinking about broadheads

2223
02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:27,040
Speaker 1: and the what they should be thinking about these factors

2224
02:15:27,080 --> 02:15:30,240
Speaker 1: and what they do to their air performance? And in

2225
02:15:30,320 --> 02:15:34,440
Speaker 1: the what grain weight? Well, myself sifty grains. I will

2226
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:37,480
Speaker 1: not shoot an error below that in a game. And

2227
02:15:37,560 --> 02:15:40,360
Speaker 1: what weight broadhead? I try to get the highest f

2228
02:15:41,080 --> 02:15:43,200
Speaker 1: oc I can with the light of shaft. So I

2229
02:15:43,360 --> 02:15:48,040
Speaker 1: generally am using three grain plus broadheads on brass or

2230
02:15:48,080 --> 02:15:51,520
Speaker 1: steel inserts uh to get as much weight as it

2231
02:15:51,560 --> 02:15:56,000
Speaker 1: can up front, generally with sometimes with internal footing behind

2232
02:15:56,120 --> 02:15:58,560
Speaker 1: that in the shaft are a collar on the front,

2233
02:15:59,240 --> 02:16:02,800
Speaker 1: uh to you have the shaft not being driven in

2234
02:16:04,040 --> 02:16:07,400
Speaker 1: um and keep it from fracturing up front. Um, but

2235
02:16:07,560 --> 02:16:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm trying to put. What I'm trying to do is

2236
02:16:10,440 --> 02:16:13,680
Speaker 1: get as much weight into this little ball as I can.

2237
02:16:14,760 --> 02:16:16,840
Speaker 1: If you could make all the way to that era,

2238
02:16:17,960 --> 02:16:25,920
Speaker 1: a neutron side sucker penetrate to the tank wanted. Now

2239
02:16:26,080 --> 02:16:30,920
Speaker 1: neutron bombs do it. Yeah, it sounds like bo hunters

2240
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:34,040
Speaker 1: need a science lesson. Well, a lot of it does

2241
02:16:34,160 --> 02:16:36,960
Speaker 1: because they've this stuff has been sold to them in

2242
02:16:37,160 --> 02:16:45,440
Speaker 1: magazines for the last seventy years. That all speed, speed, speed, light, fast,

2243
02:16:46,040 --> 02:16:49,360
Speaker 1: multiply broadheads, they cut bigger holes, they bleed more. Now.

2244
02:16:49,480 --> 02:16:52,440
Speaker 1: I tried doing I tried doing some blood trail data,

2245
02:16:53,360 --> 02:16:55,680
Speaker 1: and uh, with a set of animals, you don't get

2246
02:16:55,720 --> 02:16:58,520
Speaker 1: a lot of it. But if I had to put

2247
02:16:58,560 --> 02:17:01,520
Speaker 1: it down, the blood trail has no bearing on the

2248
02:17:01,560 --> 02:17:04,920
Speaker 1: broad heads you use. What's going to matter is where

2249
02:17:05,000 --> 02:17:08,080
Speaker 1: you hit that animal, what you hit inside that animal,

2250
02:17:08,320 --> 02:17:10,080
Speaker 1: Do you have an exit wound, and where does that

2251
02:17:10,120 --> 02:17:13,400
Speaker 1: exit moon to locate. If you've got a high entrance,

2252
02:17:13,480 --> 02:17:15,920
Speaker 1: high exit, you could have fifteen blades. You're gonna have

2253
02:17:15,920 --> 02:17:19,000
Speaker 1: a poor broad blood trail if you hit him in

2254
02:17:19,040 --> 02:17:21,240
Speaker 1: the back and it comes out his stern um. I

2255
02:17:21,320 --> 02:17:23,160
Speaker 1: don't care. If you're shooting a field point, you're gonna

2256
02:17:23,160 --> 02:17:24,959
Speaker 1: have a blood trailer. You know. That's interesting. I had

2257
02:17:24,959 --> 02:17:27,480
Speaker 1: a client once hit an elk with like a three

2258
02:17:27,600 --> 02:17:30,360
Speaker 1: thirty eight windmag I believe it was hit him high.

2259
02:17:30,959 --> 02:17:33,200
Speaker 1: Eventually we found him, but guess what we didn't have

2260
02:17:34,640 --> 02:17:37,119
Speaker 1: something happens with guns. Ye, not been of difference. All

2261
02:17:37,160 --> 02:17:39,840
Speaker 1: the bloods inside the cabin. How to fill up they're bleeding,

2262
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:41,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, it takes a while to fill it. Like

2263
02:17:41,800 --> 02:17:44,240
Speaker 1: just cavity ups big. That's a big pot of blood.

2264
02:17:44,959 --> 02:17:46,480
Speaker 1: That blood is gonna collect in the air and it's

2265
02:17:46,480 --> 02:17:50,480
Speaker 1: gonna collapse lungs. So not only is he dive from

2266
02:17:50,520 --> 02:17:52,840
Speaker 1: ass of blood, but it's going to get the force

2267
02:17:52,920 --> 02:17:56,400
Speaker 1: harder and harder for him to travel. And that's what

2268
02:17:56,480 --> 02:17:58,640
Speaker 1: you're trying to do this when you want hopefully two

2269
02:17:58,720 --> 02:18:01,720
Speaker 1: holes through the lungs. If you can get that, then

2270
02:18:01,920 --> 02:18:04,040
Speaker 1: you get that numal thora actually start to collapse those

2271
02:18:04,160 --> 02:18:09,920
Speaker 1: lungs and he doesn't travel. As for all right, tell

2272
02:18:09,920 --> 02:18:12,840
Speaker 1: everybody how to find you, Well, you need to go

2273
02:18:13,040 --> 02:18:18,040
Speaker 1: to h Ashby Bow Hunting dot org. We are a

2274
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:22,119
Speaker 1: five old, one c three nonprofit. None of the people

2275
02:18:22,160 --> 02:18:25,640
Speaker 1: are salary to. Everybody is a volunteer. That all the

2276
02:18:25,760 --> 02:18:31,039
Speaker 1: officers everything, and we'll take donations from individuals, won't take

2277
02:18:31,080 --> 02:18:33,440
Speaker 1: them from archery industry. Now, if somebody works in the

2278
02:18:33,560 --> 02:18:37,240
Speaker 1: archery industry and wants to donate as an individual, but

2279
02:18:37,480 --> 02:18:41,720
Speaker 1: it's not gonna buy any special access or special treatment

2280
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:44,480
Speaker 1: in any way. And if you okay, and then just

2281
02:18:44,600 --> 02:18:48,680
Speaker 1: to get the so if you want to see so,

2282
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:53,560
Speaker 1: so you guys at Grizzly Stick, make a point that

2283
02:18:54,800 --> 02:18:57,920
Speaker 1: is the closest like it's the closest manifestation of what

2284
02:18:58,080 --> 02:19:01,520
Speaker 1: you would argue to be the point we were talking

2285
02:19:01,720 --> 02:19:05,240
Speaker 1: last night. If if I'm picking a point to hunt

2286
02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:08,560
Speaker 1: with the day, there are only two. Now, there might

2287
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:11,320
Speaker 1: be some others that haven't been tested yet, so I

2288
02:19:11,320 --> 02:19:14,520
Speaker 1: don't want to rule them out, but ones that have

2289
02:19:14,640 --> 02:19:16,640
Speaker 1: been tested thoroughly that I know work, is only two

2290
02:19:16,720 --> 02:19:19,640
Speaker 1: that I would use. One is the astuty broad head,

2291
02:19:19,680 --> 02:19:22,600
Speaker 1: which looks just about like that, and the other one,

2292
02:19:22,879 --> 02:19:27,320
Speaker 1: uh is the tough head, the three gin tough head,

2293
02:19:27,600 --> 02:19:32,640
Speaker 1: the original one. And because those work. Now, I did

2294
02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:35,360
Speaker 1: a lot of testing with very narrow broad heads where

2295
02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:38,520
Speaker 1: I were taking these and working them down, uh to

2296
02:19:38,640 --> 02:19:41,360
Speaker 1: well blow an inch diameter because you've got a lot

2297
02:19:41,400 --> 02:19:43,280
Speaker 1: of loss to say, you gotta have an inch diameter

2298
02:19:43,400 --> 02:19:45,840
Speaker 1: broad head or inch and an eighth or something like

2299
02:19:45,959 --> 02:19:50,360
Speaker 1: that in various places works just fine. It kills buffalo,

2300
02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:55,039
Speaker 1: it'll kill white tails. Can't necessarily go the other way around.

2301
02:19:56,879 --> 02:19:58,720
Speaker 1: You know, people missed that thing. You know, Like I said,

2302
02:19:58,760 --> 02:20:01,240
Speaker 1: I like to carry one an era. I don't care

2303
02:20:01,280 --> 02:20:03,880
Speaker 1: what I encounter. I'm ready to shooting. Uh. Do you

2304
02:20:03,920 --> 02:20:06,760
Speaker 1: guys get any donations. We're just really getting started with

2305
02:20:06,840 --> 02:20:09,120
Speaker 1: him coming in, but we're getting some coming in. And

2306
02:20:09,320 --> 02:20:12,800
Speaker 1: we're in the process now of doing some grant requests

2307
02:20:12,920 --> 02:20:15,880
Speaker 1: from you know, like Dallas far Club and people like that.

2308
02:20:16,959 --> 02:20:19,200
Speaker 1: And uh. And you don't feel like that's gonna you

2309
02:20:19,240 --> 02:20:24,000
Speaker 1: don't feel that's gonna lead to industry manipulation. It's gonna

2310
02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:25,320
Speaker 1: have to be it's gonna have to be a grant

2311
02:20:25,440 --> 02:20:30,320
Speaker 1: and no strings attached period. God, if they're strings attached,

2312
02:20:30,400 --> 02:20:33,800
Speaker 1: we ain't doing it. We've had some people in the

2313
02:20:33,920 --> 02:20:38,879
Speaker 1: archery industry want to donate, and no, not like those

2314
02:20:38,920 --> 02:20:41,840
Speaker 1: guys the tobacco industry hires and show the tobacco good

2315
02:20:41,879 --> 02:20:46,840
Speaker 1: for you, all right, ask me Bow Hunting Foundation. Yes,

2316
02:20:48,040 --> 02:20:50,920
Speaker 1: go to it, look at it. Donate if you want

2317
02:20:51,040 --> 02:20:54,040
Speaker 1: to find out, if you want to support research that

2318
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:57,960
Speaker 1: finds out what really works, what doesn't work, and and

2319
02:20:58,120 --> 02:21:01,000
Speaker 1: what the money goes for, Like senators. No salaries involved.

2320
02:21:01,440 --> 02:21:03,760
Speaker 1: Is buying the equipment. Why we're buying this high speed camera?

2321
02:21:03,879 --> 02:21:08,320
Speaker 1: We bought this, brought these doctor radar chronographs. Do you

2322
02:21:08,360 --> 02:21:10,280
Speaker 1: do Q and as with people like if they go like, hey,

2323
02:21:10,400 --> 02:21:12,960
Speaker 1: what about this? Do you reply to him? Oh? Yeah,

2324
02:21:13,280 --> 02:21:14,959
Speaker 1: We've got a place in there that they can ask

2325
02:21:15,080 --> 02:21:18,160
Speaker 1: questions and and we'll give me answers, you know what

2326
02:21:18,320 --> 02:21:20,520
Speaker 1: answer we can give them. And the guys volunteer a

2327
02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:23,920
Speaker 1: lot of time. They uh, they build even to the

2328
02:21:24,000 --> 02:21:27,640
Speaker 1: point of building up air setups for people, Um you

2329
02:21:27,720 --> 02:21:29,960
Speaker 1: know that that are going hunt a cape buffalo or

2330
02:21:30,000 --> 02:21:32,840
Speaker 1: something and I've never done him. Um. So they actually

2331
02:21:32,840 --> 02:21:35,800
Speaker 1: do a hand a lot of hands on for individuals

2332
02:21:36,080 --> 02:21:40,920
Speaker 1: and it's called ask ashpy but but it's it's it's

2333
02:21:41,040 --> 02:21:43,720
Speaker 1: routed to whichever one of us on the board is

2334
02:21:44,640 --> 02:21:47,560
Speaker 1: is most qualified nanswer, cause my hands are getting where

2335
02:21:47,560 --> 02:21:50,199
Speaker 1: I can hardly do anything with them. If they can answer,

2336
02:21:50,360 --> 02:21:54,440
Speaker 1: they answer. If they can, it comes to me, got it?

2337
02:21:54,879 --> 02:21:56,560
Speaker 1: And if I can't answer it, I tell them I

2338
02:21:56,760 --> 02:22:00,520
Speaker 1: don't know. You know, that's we're doing testing. Owner are Hey,

2339
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:02,200
Speaker 1: that's something we're gonna add to the testing. That's a

2340
02:22:02,240 --> 02:22:06,600
Speaker 1: good idea, you know, they're just stuff, you know, people

2341
02:22:06,600 --> 02:22:08,600
Speaker 1: are good about doing that, and and we have become

2342
02:22:08,680 --> 02:22:11,480
Speaker 1: involved with one of the big things with Texas Parks

2343
02:22:11,520 --> 02:22:14,680
Speaker 1: and Wildlife. We're affiliated with them, so we put on

2344
02:22:14,879 --> 02:22:21,040
Speaker 1: programs teaching this type stuff to the Bowl Hunter Education instructors,

2345
02:22:22,200 --> 02:22:26,240
Speaker 1: so we trained them in that and UH we worked

2346
02:22:26,320 --> 02:22:30,160
Speaker 1: with FAZA, the Professional Hunter Association of South Africa and

2347
02:22:30,680 --> 02:22:34,520
Speaker 1: the one in the media also and we're trying to

2348
02:22:34,600 --> 02:22:39,440
Speaker 1: set up one in Zambia. Working with that, we supplied

2349
02:22:39,440 --> 02:22:41,840
Speaker 1: a lot of information that went over to Russia where

2350
02:22:41,840 --> 02:22:46,800
Speaker 1: they illegalized winning last year UH and looking at Germany,

2351
02:22:46,879 --> 02:22:48,800
Speaker 1: looking to some other places that were trying to system

2352
02:22:48,840 --> 02:22:53,600
Speaker 1: with information the data we have Botswana and so we're

2353
02:22:53,600 --> 02:22:55,960
Speaker 1: trying to you know, reach out that way. So we

2354
02:22:56,040 --> 02:22:58,880
Speaker 1: not only try to work with government agencies and just

2355
02:22:59,640 --> 02:23:03,240
Speaker 1: Reese well, we sent out letters to every state fishing

2356
02:23:03,280 --> 02:23:05,880
Speaker 1: Game department telling them what we're doing with Texas Parks

2357
02:23:05,920 --> 02:23:09,520
Speaker 1: and Wildlife and seeing if we can assist they mean,

2358
02:23:09,560 --> 02:23:11,240
Speaker 1: we've had replies back from I don't know what two

2359
02:23:11,280 --> 02:23:13,240
Speaker 1: or three or four. You know, there's just not a

2360
02:23:13,320 --> 02:23:15,920
Speaker 1: lot of people that have information for those guys that

2361
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:18,360
Speaker 1: want to go out and educate people and so when

2362
02:23:18,400 --> 02:23:21,360
Speaker 1: we've been able to supply that information for them, they've

2363
02:23:21,440 --> 02:23:23,920
Speaker 1: been starving for it. Almost seems like a lot of

2364
02:23:23,959 --> 02:23:26,879
Speaker 1: the guys and just they're looking for ways to better

2365
02:23:27,240 --> 02:23:29,440
Speaker 1: educate their students when they're going through this the house

2366
02:23:29,480 --> 02:23:34,320
Speaker 1: and wives of what's going on site them. Thanks Doc, appreciated, welcome,

2367
02:23:35,920 --> 02:23:41,160
Speaker 1: asked bow Hunt and Foundation. Check them out, donate, senate donation,

2368
02:23:42,040 --> 02:23:42,440
Speaker 1: everybody