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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. The jury is on their

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Speaker 1: launch recess. We all hustled away from the testimony to

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Speaker 1: join you live a lot happening in the courtroom. The

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Speaker 1: defense is taking the lead right now. We saw the

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Speaker 1: remaining surviving son, Buster Murdog on the stand, and boy

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Speaker 1: do they need a friendly witness because, let me tell

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Speaker 1: you something. We now learn that as he is standing

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Speaker 1: next to his dead wife and dead son, their bodies

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Speaker 1: riddled with bullets, Alex Murdog takes time to look up

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Speaker 1: a local restaurant and take a gander at a bikini picture. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you heard me right, take a listen to this I

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Speaker 1: think you have in the timeline. Later on, he reads

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Speaker 1: some spam text message about I think there's a picture

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Speaker 1: of a woman in a bikini. I wouldn't call a

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Speaker 1: spam text message. It's from Michael Gunn, who would be

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Speaker 1: one of his friend group text a group text. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And then he googles the name of a restaurant and

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Speaker 1: at a stove beach. Is that correct? That is what

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Speaker 1: comes up on his phone. So he would seem to

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Speaker 1: be in a state of shock. He's none of that

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Speaker 1: makes any sense, does it? You're not going to google

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Speaker 1: the name of a restaurant after you find your son murdered.

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Speaker 1: I'm not Alex murder. I don't know what he was

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Speaker 1: thinking that that moment probably wouldn't be on my phone.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe he was googling a restaurant or do

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Speaker 1: you think he was fat fingering the phone because he

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Speaker 1: was in shock. I have to go off of the data,

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Speaker 1: and that's what the data shows. And you believe that

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Speaker 1: calling family and calling someone that the pro testimony was

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Speaker 1: was like another son is unreasonable in the circumstances, I

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Speaker 1: would say so, yes, given the fact that you just

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Speaker 1: arrived to the scene fat fingering the phone. No, that

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Speaker 1: can't be. When you look up a restaurant by name,

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Speaker 1: if you put in the wrong letters, you'll get some

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Speaker 1: crazy result, not a local restaurant. What was he planning

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Speaker 1: to go out for dinner after? And you hear the

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Speaker 1: lawyer trying to rehabilitate these awful facts that are coming

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Speaker 1: from the witness stand by saying, well, you know whatdn't

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Speaker 1: you expect him to call his family? Yes, but that's

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Speaker 1: not the first call that Alex Murdog made after finding

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Speaker 1: his wife and son dead. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: The first person he called after hanging up with nine one,

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Speaker 1: was it roogin I have at ten seventeen forty six,

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Speaker 1: he calls Randy Murdough and that's his brother, correct, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: Who's the second person he called? I messages Randy and

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Speaker 1: then calls Randy Murdough again, and then John Marvin? John

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Speaker 1: Marvin is another brother, creg at ten nineteen. And then

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Speaker 1: the third time person he calls Rogan. Is that correct

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Speaker 1: at that at that time? Yes? And is that about

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Speaker 1: two minutes and thirty seconds after that first screen on time?

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Speaker 1: That's Craig. I didn't hear any mention of Alex murdogu

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Speaker 1: calling his son Buster, but he did manage to squeeze

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Speaker 1: in a call to Rogie. That would be Rogan Gibson.

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Speaker 1: Rogan Gibson, remember, was the recipient of the video with

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Speaker 1: Alex Murdog's voice in the background. You saw him earlier

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Speaker 1: in the States case positively identifying Murdog's voice at the

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Speaker 1: kennel the scene of the crimes, minutes before Maggie and

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Speaker 1: Paul or murder. So why is he contacting Rogie Gibson

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Speaker 1: before he calls Buster? You know straight out to Joshua Ritter,

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Speaker 1: well known defense attorney, partner at dab Ritter Trial Lawyers

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Speaker 1: and former La County Deputy District Attorney. Joshua, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. What do you do with a

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Speaker 1: client who's standing right beside his wife and sons, dead

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Speaker 1: bodies and he looks up a local restaurant. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a problem, and it's something they're going to really have

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Speaker 1: to deal with because they listen, it doesn't make him

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Speaker 1: a murderer that he's making these phone calls and he's

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Speaker 1: looking up restaurants. But how do you get jurors to

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Speaker 1: wrap their heads around that. You can say all you

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Speaker 1: want about how different people behave differently when they're in shock,

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Speaker 1: and none of us know how we would behave, but

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, at the bottom of the list of things

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Speaker 1: that we would be doing is looking up a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, they're gonna have to do something about

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Speaker 1: that to give some sort of explanation the jurors that

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Speaker 1: they can hang their hat on. Otherwise, this looks like

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Speaker 1: the conduct of, at the worst, a guilty man and

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Speaker 1: at the very least somebody who just doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: care about what he's standing right next to. Okay, can

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Speaker 1: I just correct you on one thing, Joshua Ritter, And

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Speaker 1: I know you're a high profile defense attorney, but I

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Speaker 1: have never once said, oh, everybody reacts differently when they're grieving.

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Speaker 1: That's not no, that was what you would say when

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Speaker 1: you have a criminal defendant that's doing something that is

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Speaker 1: unacceptable to most people, such as I don't know, bringing

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Speaker 1: your mistress to a funeral, or which I've seen in

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Speaker 1: other cases, not this one that I know of, or

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Speaker 1: looking up a local restaurant while you're standing beside your

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Speaker 1: wife and son's dead body, and another thing while I'm

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Speaker 1: on it straight out to Chris mcdonnaugh, director at the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case A Foundation, I found him on a YouTube channel,

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Speaker 1: his channel, The Interview Room, Chris mcdonnah fat fingering means

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Speaker 1: something different. It means you obscure the thing you mean

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Speaker 1: to click on with your finger. That's what fat finger

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Speaker 1: a phone. Fat fingering a phone means that you're you

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Speaker 1: can't see the screen because if your fingers are in

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Speaker 1: the wrong place. That does not explain looking up by

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Speaker 1: name a local restaurant right after you call nine one

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Speaker 1: one and you're thumbing through looking at your friend's bikini pictures. Yeah, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I mean it just doesn't make any sense, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the gentleman is standing right there, his son's you know,

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Speaker 1: body parts are separated from his body. His wife has

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Speaker 1: been riddled with bullets. You you know, you might as

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Speaker 1: well check to see what's for dinner this evening, and

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Speaker 1: oh hey, there's a couple of you know, fallacious photographs.

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Speaker 1: I might as well take a look at those two

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Speaker 1: while I'm waiting for the authorities to arrive it. You're

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent right. It just does not fit the

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Speaker 1: narrative of the totality of the circumstances. And I've got

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Speaker 1: to give it to Joshua Ritter, high profile defense attorney

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Speaker 1: joining us someone that is callous and cold towards his

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Speaker 1: wife and son and is looking up as next dinner

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Speaker 1: date online where he's going to have dinner. That does

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Speaker 1: not a killer make. But I can tell you this much,

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Speaker 1: it's not good. Would you at least agree with that, Joshua,

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen to picture that it creates is absolutely awful.

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Speaker 1: And they did it. The prosecution did a good job

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Speaker 1: of laying that out that like you're literally standing next

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Speaker 1: to the bullet riddled dead bodies of your wife and child.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if you could be on your

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Speaker 1: phone at all and it make any kind of explanation.

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Speaker 1: And what explanation are they going to provide for at

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Speaker 1: that moment what he's thinking about is a restaurant location.

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Speaker 1: There has better be a really good explanation for it. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: like like we said, doesn't make him a killer, it

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Speaker 1: certainly looks awful in front of those jurors. Or Michelle

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Speaker 1: Dupree joining US. Forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective, and

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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Doctor Dupree is joining

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Speaker 1: us from there in South Carolina. Doctor Dupree needless to say,

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Speaker 1: you and I have seen a lot of dead bodies.

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Speaker 1: We've seen them in person at the morgue, at a

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Speaker 1: crime scene. You know, I find it really interesting that

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Speaker 1: he's standing a few feet away from a horrific crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Both his wife and son literally as I said earlier,

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Speaker 1: were riddled with bullets their words, not mine. Paul's brain

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Speaker 1: was down by his ankles, and he's thumbing through his phone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would think that would be You've seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of crime scenes can you really look away

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Speaker 1: and plan supper? Really, Nancy, I have never seen or

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Speaker 1: heard of any thing quiet like this, and this is appalling.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how. I don't know how someone that

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Speaker 1: you love could do that. You know, you've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of experience at crime scenes, but I would be

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Speaker 1: willing to bet this may have been Alex and Mardog's

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Speaker 1: first homicide, saying well, take a listen to this. So

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Speaker 1: as an investigator, do you do you think it would

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Speaker 1: be terribly unreasonable that after calling other family members, someone

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Speaker 1: would call the person who is the best friend of

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Speaker 1: the dead son, who had multiple mis messages and calls

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Speaker 1: and even a call coming in during the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call is calling that person to ask what's what happened?

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Speaker 1: What's going on? Is that to you, as an investigator

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Speaker 1: an unreasonable thing to do after calling other family members?

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Speaker 1: I would as an investigator, I think that would be

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Speaker 1: very odd given the scene, in the whole situation that

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Speaker 1: you're on the phone constantly, Yes, that you're standing there

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Speaker 1: next to his phone is ringing someone, and you call

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Speaker 1: that person after calling other people. Yes, because I am

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Speaker 1: standing over my son and wife and it's just witnessing

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Speaker 1: that for the first time. I would think that would

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Speaker 1: be to have someone on their phone constantly like that

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Speaker 1: right after given the scene in the situation. Yes, as

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Speaker 1: an investigator, I would think that is very It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be side trying to find out what happened at that moment.

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Speaker 1: That would be the last thing they'll probably come through

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Speaker 1: my mind time stories with Nancy Grace. I want to

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Speaker 1: go straight out to doctor Heidi Sivers, the founder of

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Speaker 1: Sivers Forensics, an export a bloodstained pattern lay consultant, author

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Speaker 1: of You Can't Make This Up Dark Humor. You can

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Speaker 1: find doctor Heidi Sivers at Sivers Forensics dot thinkific dot com.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Savers, you've seen a lot of juries. Now. The

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Speaker 1: evidence that you typically bring in regarding blood stain patterns

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Speaker 1: and ballistics, you know, very highly technical jargon. Juries understand it.

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Speaker 1: They're a lot smarter than many people give them credit.

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Speaker 1: I find it really difficult to believe this jury is

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Speaker 1: going to fall for the fat finger. Excuse why Alex

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Speaker 1: murdog is looking up his next meal at a local

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Speaker 1: restaurant or a bikini picture of friends set. I agree, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I think you hit the nail right on the head

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Speaker 1: there that they are much smarter than many people given

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Speaker 1: them credit for. And they have also heard extensive and

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Speaker 1: extensive scientific testimony this entire trial breaking down some of

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Speaker 1: those complex processes as it comes to DNA ballistics, bloodstains,

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Speaker 1: things of that nature. So for them to catch on

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Speaker 1: and understand the applicability of that type of evidence, but

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Speaker 1: to believe that in the midst of intense emotion you're

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Speaker 1: fat fingering a local restaurant and looking at bikini pictures,

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Speaker 1: I just don't think they're gonna catch on to that, guys.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned right at the get go and we

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Speaker 1: are live at the courthouse, Buster Murdock, they surviving. Murdock's

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Speaker 1: son has been on the stand almost all a morning.

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Speaker 1: He had a lot to say, So, without any further ado,

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Speaker 1: let's go straight in and listen to what he has

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Speaker 1: to say about the so called reward for information about

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Speaker 1: the murders. At some point in time, you and your

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Speaker 1: father announced a reward, Yes, Sir Alick and Buster Murdoch

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Speaker 1: announced today a reward of a hundred thousand for information

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Speaker 1: leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or

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Speaker 1: persons who brutally murdered Paul and Maggie on June. Any one. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's a in the body of this, there's a expiration

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Speaker 1: date on this reward. What's what's your understanding of purpose

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Speaker 1: of having an expiration faire? I'm not really sure. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what you say? Iss To be eligible, the person claiming

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Speaker 1: the reward must submit the tip to Slatter Crimes Stipers

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Speaker 1: by September thirty one, twenty twenty one. Yes, sir, straight

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Speaker 1: back out to Chris mcdonnah, director of the Cold Case

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Speaker 1: Foundation and star of the Interview Room. But I forgot

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Speaker 1: to mention that he is a former homicide detective and

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Speaker 1: has handled literally hundreds of homicide investigations. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of families put forth rewards desperate for

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Speaker 1: any information. I've very rarely seen a time limit put

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Speaker 1: on the reward, Sydney. Wasn't there a time limit put

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Speaker 1: on the Suzanne Morphew case. Hey, if you can find

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Speaker 1: the killer, you get this or give me information about

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Speaker 1: the killer, you get this reward up until the clock

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Speaker 1: struck midnight. You're a pumpkin again. So have you ever

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Speaker 1: seen that before? No? Absolutely not. And you know that

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Speaker 1: case was also written with his nephew. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: here we have you know, the son who obviously gets caught,

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Speaker 1: you know, not knowing why that expiration date is there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're not talking about, you know, the death

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Speaker 1: of these two individuals in this press release. That's what

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Speaker 1: I call it. It's a press release. It's not a

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Speaker 1: reward release, because you know, press releases become stale after

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Speaker 1: a certain point of time, and they should have an

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Speaker 1: expiration date on him, but not a reward if they

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Speaker 1: were sincere about wanting to find the killers. You know,

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Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, I'm listening to what Chris mcdonna is saying,

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Speaker 1: and he's handled, I guess, going on five hundred homicide investigations.

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Speaker 1: Have you you ever in all of your years, Joshua

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Speaker 1: Ritter seen a Marter case where the family puts out

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Speaker 1: a reward but they tread it like it's a carton

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Speaker 1: of milk. There's an exploration date, Hey after this date? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: never mind, don't want to know who killed him? No,

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it. But even worse is why wasn't

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Speaker 1: he prepared for that question? Why didn't they? I mean,

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Speaker 1: they didn't discuss this aul beforehand and the things that

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Speaker 1: he might be cross examined about that might be one

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Speaker 1: of the things that pops up is, Hey, this is problematic.

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Speaker 1: We all know how this looks. There has to be

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Speaker 1: some good reason for why we put this expiration date

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Speaker 1: in there. But the young man was caught off guard,

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Speaker 1: as was pointed out, and he's asked the question and

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Speaker 1: he gives a very weak answer. I mean, it's the

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Speaker 1: answer that he knows, he doesn't know why, he has

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Speaker 1: no explanation for it. And that was a moment really

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Speaker 1: missed by the defense that again, something they're going to

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Speaker 1: have to provide an explanation for. You know, Joshua Ritter,

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Speaker 1: you're pretty smart. You're absolutely correct. You know, when you

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Speaker 1: go into a case, Joshua, as I always would the prosecutor, first,

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Speaker 1: I would spend all my time getting my case ready.

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Speaker 1: Then with my spare time, I would try to figure

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Speaker 1: out what are they going to do, because I want

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Speaker 1: to shoot it down before they can even bring it up.

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Speaker 1: I want to destroy their theory, which I know to

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Speaker 1: be a lie, before they can introduce it before the jury.

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Speaker 1: I've got to destroy it before it starts. Hey, Chris,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you, Christine, if you don't mind, I

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Speaker 1: want to look at Buster Murdog all the stand again,

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Speaker 1: based on what Joshua Ritter has just said, is Buster

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Speaker 1: Murdog totally caught off guard? Did they not prepare him

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Speaker 1: for this most obvious attack? Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut nine. At some point in time, you and your

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Speaker 1: father announced a reward. Yes, Sir Elik and Buster Murdoch

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Speaker 1: announced today a reward of one hundred thousand for information

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Speaker 1: leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or

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Speaker 1: persons who brutally murdered Paul and Aggie on June seven,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Now, there's a in the body of this,

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Speaker 1: there's a expiration date on this reward. What's what's your

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Speaker 1: understanding of purpose of having an expiration thing? Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm not real sure? Okay, what are you saying? It says.

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Speaker 1: To be eligible, the person claiming the reward must submit

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Speaker 1: the tip to Slatter Crime Stipers by September thirty one,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Yes, did you notice Chris mcdonnah when

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Speaker 1: he said that? When Buster said I'm not real sure,

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Speaker 1: he looked right over at his dad and then he

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Speaker 1: looked back, like, what the heck did you? I noticed it?

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Speaker 1: He looked right over there and then back because he

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Speaker 1: had to be thinking, what you didn't tell me? They

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Speaker 1: were going to ask that. Yeah, great observation, Dancy. And

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Speaker 1: and you know, let's take that a little bit further, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's basically a surrogate testimony for his father.

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Speaker 1: The defense is just feeding him. And there were even

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Speaker 1: times in his testimony where he would kind of get

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Speaker 1: stuck and the defense would fill in the void and

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Speaker 1: you would see that same look back over at his father. So,

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Speaker 1: what a great observation you had. Their good, good one. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, I want you to repeat something because now

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Speaker 1: I've got Ann Emerson An Emerson Senior investigative reporter WCIV ABC,

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Speaker 1: and she's a star of Unsolved South Carolina, the Murdoch Murders,

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Speaker 1: Money and Mystery podcast, which is incredible. And I want

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Speaker 1: you to hear what Chris mcdonnah had to say about

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Speaker 1: this reward announcement being more like a press release. Tell her,

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, your theory. Yeah, So my theory is obviously

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Speaker 1: the two of them got together. I would submit that

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Speaker 1: Dad probably drove the conversation here. And when you read that,

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Speaker 1: it reads more like a press release leash versus a

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Speaker 1: reward fund. Hey, we're looking for information, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of ties the family's narrative into the public forum with

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Speaker 1: an expiration date, and I find that interesting. It's the

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Speaker 1: same month also that the fake shooting takes place, so

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Speaker 1: maybe the expiration was in correlation to that event. And

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Speaker 1: Emerson with me, as I mentioned from WCIV and Unsold

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Speaker 1: South Carolina podcast and just coming out of the courtroom

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Speaker 1: and tell me how is the jury were spotting to

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Speaker 1: Buster Murdoch on the stand. They were very attentive this morning, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: They were paying a lot of attention. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: also had a little bit of another alternate brought into

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Speaker 1: the mix because we had someone who had to stay

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Speaker 1: out because the juror was sick, so we now have

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Speaker 1: an alternate in its place. So they were paying a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention to what was going on with Buster. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: this was a heavy testimony, you know, it was one

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Speaker 1: of the you know, really coming out of the gates

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Speaker 1: for the defense. Right They've had a couple of short

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Speaker 1: witnesses and now they've got Buster on the stand, So

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Speaker 1: they were paying a lot of attention. I hear what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, Chris about this It's a question we've had

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Speaker 1: ever since we started looking into this case, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: this is not new as far as the reward. We've

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Speaker 1: been asking the same question about the expiration dates since

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Speaker 1: the beginning, and we still didn't get it cleared up

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Speaker 1: with Buster on the sand today. And Buster was one

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Speaker 1: of the people that was putting the reward out. So unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it's still a question of why they would have done that,

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Speaker 1: whether or not it was in September. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know that that event happened very early in September,

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Speaker 1: the first weekend in September, and they were holding out

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Speaker 1: for the whole month. But yeah, Nancy, incredible the you know,

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Speaker 1: Buster started crying one or two times while he was

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Speaker 1: up there, which was completely understandable, and you definitely felt

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Speaker 1: the jury leaning in trying to hear what he was

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Speaker 1: saying and concerned for this kid up on the stand,

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Speaker 1: but also waiting to hear Dick, could he clear up

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Speaker 1: some of these things about his dad? One of the

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Speaker 1: things is he a kid? A minute? Is he a kid?

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Speaker 1: Is he a kid? I guess a kid? How old

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Speaker 1: is him? And you'd think of him twenty six old?

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Speaker 1: Is he's twenty six? Okay, just so he's hold on

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Speaker 1: because at twenty six, my father had already enlisted with

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Speaker 1: a Navy in the World War and had gone halfway

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Speaker 1: around the world to fight the World War, had come

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Speaker 1: back home and had married, gone back to school to

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Speaker 1: study accounty, and was starting a family. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know that twenty six is a kid. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he is a kid. I think it's like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at the life skills they've been, you know, definitely

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Speaker 1: coddled by their family. So I mean, in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, this is a guy that still looks at

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Speaker 1: his dad and says, hey, Dad, what do you think

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Speaker 1: about what I'm saying right now? So to me, he

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Speaker 1: does still act like a big kid in some ways.

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Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter. And I'm not saying that I would have

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Speaker 1: done this, because, after all, regardless of the fact that

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Speaker 1: he is twenty six years old and as a grown man,

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Speaker 1: he still has lost his mother and his brother in

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Speaker 1: a horrible way, and now his father's on trial for

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Speaker 1: double murder. But I would have considered really grilling him

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Speaker 1: on the stand. I mean, he and his father issued

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Speaker 1: the reward. It was their idea. His name is on

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Speaker 1: the reward. Why do you mean you don't know why

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Speaker 1: there's a shelf date. There's an expiration date, I mean

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Speaker 1: the shelf life an expiration date. Why, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: your reward. Why I didn't end magically at the stroke

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Speaker 1: of midnight at the end of September. They could have

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Speaker 1: really grilled him on that and a whole lot more.

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Speaker 1: But would it have been the right thing to do,

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Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, Oh, you're right. I mean, if he were

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Speaker 1: anybody else that hadn't lost his mother and brother and

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Speaker 1: now you know, perhaps he's losing his father to prison

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Speaker 1: for the rest of his life, you could have seen

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Speaker 1: that they would have had a lot of opportunity to

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Speaker 1: really go after him for a point like that in particular.

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Speaker 1: But I think the prosecution realized I had to take

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Speaker 1: this kind of soft handed approach because of the person

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Speaker 1: that you're dealing with. In fact, he opened up his

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Speaker 1: cross by saying, I'm sorry about the loss of your

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Speaker 1: mother and brother, and made a point of kind of

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Speaker 1: having this really human interaction with him, of introducing himself

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Speaker 1: and saying, you know, I'm going to just ask you

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Speaker 1: a few questions here, so they you could tell that

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Speaker 1: their tactic from the very beginning was they're going to

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Speaker 1: ask the tough questions, but they're going to do it

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Speaker 1: in a very soft handed manner. Okay, Josua Ritter, let

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Speaker 1: me just throw it out what I think I would

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Speaker 1: have done in that situation, much what the state did.

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Speaker 1: I'd go easy on Buster Murdog because I feel bad

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Speaker 1: for him. He's lost his mother and his brother, and

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Speaker 1: his dad's on trial for double murder. He's lost everything,

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Speaker 1: everything that matters, and that's his family. However, I think

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Speaker 1: I would argue it to the jury. In the end,

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Speaker 1: you saw a buster, didn't your heart go out to him? Now,

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Speaker 1: let's analyze what he said about the expiration date on

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Speaker 1: that reward. You know, he didn't do that. That was

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Speaker 1: his father's money, his father's idea, his father's release. He

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Speaker 1: didn't know why there was an expiration date, but Alex

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Speaker 1: Murdog knew because he didn't want anybody to come forward

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Speaker 1: with the truth that he is, in fact a double killer.

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Speaker 1: Think about it. I think that's what I would do

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Speaker 1: with that. I would save it for closing arguments. Yea.

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Speaker 1: And really, the more you talk about it, and then

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Speaker 1: you brought this up, it's a missed opportunity by the

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Speaker 1: defense that they didn't bring it up themselves on direct

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Speaker 1: Why didn't they realize that was a weak point that

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Speaker 1: needed to be addressed. Here you have a person testifying

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Speaker 1: who can essentially testify as a mouthpiece for his father,

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Speaker 1: and go, hey, by the way, you guys put an

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Speaker 1: expiration date on this, what was the reason for that?

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Speaker 1: And it would have completely deflated this moment for the

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Speaker 1: prosecution on cross missed opportunity that was exploited by the

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Speaker 1: prosecution and Emerson joining mey w CIV and I noticed, hey, Christaine,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we have this because it just happened.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we haven't to play back for

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Speaker 1: our viewers, but I can describe it. So they got Buster,

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Speaker 1: the defense put Buster up on the stand, Buster Murdog,

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Speaker 1: and at some point they said, you know when when

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Speaker 1: what happened? When you're when you got this call? And

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Speaker 1: he said, I learned my mother and my brother were dead,

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Speaker 1: And the camera went to Murdog, Christain, stay with me moment,

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Speaker 1: and I watched Murdog at that precise moment, and he went,

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Speaker 1: there was nothing there. And for those of you that

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Speaker 1: can't see and you can only hear. He just took

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Speaker 1: one finger his hand, dab dab right under resides. There

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Speaker 1: was nothing there, and I went you, s o B,

425
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: you're crying. You're not crying. You're pretending you're crying. Oh,

426
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: hold on, wait a minute, Christine somehow asked me miraculously

427
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: dug it up for me. Let's see it, Christine. I

428
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: hope I'm right. Okay, please play it. My dad called me.

429
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't remember the exact time, but it

430
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: was later. He asked me if I was sitting down,

431
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, and then he sounded on

432
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: and then then he told me that that my mom

433
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: and brother had been shot. I kind of just sat

434
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: there for a minute and I was I was in shock.

435
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: But eventually we got our stuff together and drove down

436
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: to Mozelle. If we left around ten thirty eleven, got

437
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: there sometime probably around two o'clock in the morning. And

438
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: when you got there, did you see your dad? Yes, sir?

439
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: Nice demeanor was? I mean, he was destroying his heartbroken.

440
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: I walked in the door and it saw him and

441
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: give m a hug and just just broken down. Could

442
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: he speak? Not? Really, you're crying yes, sir, okay, that

443
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: was the right sound. But I didn't see the video

444
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 1: that was Buster on the stand. But right when he says,

445
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: my dad calls and you know, tells me my mom

446
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: and my brother had been shot. At that moment, it

447
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: goes to murdog and he's sitting there and he takes

448
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: one hand and goes boop boop and wipes under his eyes.

449
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly not really crying. I mean, come on, man,

450
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: pinch yourself. Straight back out to Anne Emerson joining us

451
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: w c IV. Tell me what happened when Buster Murdock

452
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: was describing the moment he learned his mom and his

453
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: brother had been murdered. Well, Nancy, Also, we have to

454
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: set it up that we have not heard anything from

455
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: Buster before, right, we haven't heard any interviews. He's been

456
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: very quiet up until this moment, and so we were

457
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: all listening intensely to see how he would describe this moment.

458
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: And you're right, it was one of those moments where

459
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: he was kind of going through it. You almost felt

460
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: like on a third person level. You know, he was

461
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: talking about that he noticed that his girlfriend was packing

462
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: as he's talking, because she could overhear the conversation he

463
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: was intent on getting through. In my opinion, he was

464
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: intent on sort of getting through this part of what

465
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: they wanted him to talk about, because he did not

466
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: over he was not overly dramatic about that. He like

467
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: you said, there wasn't a whole lot to read through

468
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: the lines right then, but he looked like he was

469
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: focusing very hard at just trying to get it out.

470
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: And the jury was sympathetic. Of course they're sympathetic. They're

471
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: trying to follow along with Buster because this is something

472
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: they just haven't gotten, is that very very close familial connection.

473
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: So it did feel like it was getting a little

474
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: bit of testifying from the defendant through Buster. I will

475
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: state that as I did, I believe that the jury

476
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: felt sympathy and empathy for Buster Murdog. I can't even

477
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: imagine going through life without my mom. And isn't Buster

478
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: Murdog back in law school now? And you know, that's

479
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: what we've been told, but we've also it's been under

480
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: wraps a little bit. But that's certainly what I heard

481
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: was that he was already re enrolled, that he was

482
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: supposed to go back as of January, is what I understood.

483
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: But I haven't gotten a confirmation on that, but imagine

484
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: going through law school and graduation and finding a job

485
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: and so forth without your mom there supporting you and

486
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: cheering you on. I have noticed every day I've been

487
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: in the courtroom that his girlfriend was sitting right there

488
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: with him. And I've got to say, having lived through

489
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: something similar myself, in those moments when you first learned

490
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: someone you love has been murdered, nothing seems real. And

491
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: he looks over and she's already packing. She has been

492
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: with him throughout this. But we learned more from Buster Murdock.

493
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. Did you take

494
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: any security precautions? No? Did you want any security protection

495
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: from No, sir, I didn't want to, Well, I didn't.

496
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: I didn't want to carry a gun or anything like that.

497
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: And I also didn't want like a private security detail

498
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: following me around, just for lack of privacy in and

499
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: at the time the places that I that I was

500
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: staying in the places that I were going, like I

501
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: was staying at rock Hill and my girlfriend's house, who

502
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: has yeah, alarm systems and security cameras and whatnot. And

503
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: then other than that, I'm staying in hotels. Man Joshua Ritter,

504
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: I've got so many hanks and charms and security systems

505
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: and cameras on our home to protect the children, the dog,

506
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: the fence, the this that, the camera, the warning signs,

507
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: the works. But eerily Alex Murdog was not concerned about

508
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: Buster Murdog's safety, was he Joshua doesn't appear to be

509
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: You're right, it's you know it listened. These small little

510
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: points add up all of this kind of bizarre behavior

511
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,479
Speaker 1: taking place afterwards. You're right again, the jurors doesn't make

512
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: the man a killer. But the jurors are going to

513
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: look at this and go, if I'm in that person's

514
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: position and I had just my wife and child, I've

515
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: been killed and I don't know who did it, and

516
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: they still might be out there, that person or persons,

517
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to take steps to make sure

518
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: that my son is protected, that I'm protected. I think

519
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: many of those jurors are going to feel exactly that

520
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: same way, and now they don't really have an explanation

521
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: for it. But isn't that barre behavior that we can

522
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: add to the list of bizarre behaviors. And again we

523
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: have gotten, we have been inundated with questions about Buster Murdog,

524
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: did he do it? Where was he that night? What's

525
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: his alibi? Why isn't he Why wasn't he arrested? Never

526
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: once have I seriously considered Buster Murdog as a suspect

527
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: in this case, not even a py person of interest.

528
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: He was elsewhere at the time of the shootings. And

529
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that if there were any remote

530
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: interest in Buster Murdog as the shooter, he would not

531
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: have taken the stand. He would have taken the fifth.

532
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: He would have had a caudray of defense lawyers stopping

533
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: in or surrounding him when he took the stand. No,

534
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: there's no way this young man shot his brother and

535
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: his mother never bought it from the beginning, not buying

536
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: it now, which leads me back to Alex Murdog. Now, Christine,

537
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: let me ask for another control room miracle. Can I

538
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: hear in our side eleven if you managed to turn

539
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: it around? Yet the reconstruction expert called by the defense,

540
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: who insists the shooter not only shot from the hip,

541
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like a clairvoyant. He can say,

542
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: and oh, yeah, the shooter was really short. Listen, So

543
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: what has this depend So this is the shooter making

544
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: both shots, and you'll see there's a couple of different

545
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: angles I could show you, but they're really close and

546
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: they're in the right location relative to the empty shell casings.

547
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: So what that says. I'm not saying it's exactly there,

548
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: because there's some variables to it. But I find it

549
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: interesting that the two shot trajectories cross at a point

550
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: where both shots can be made and they're at the

551
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: right location relative to those empty shell casings. So in

552
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: my opinion, when these two shots were made, at least

553
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: these two shots, that the shooter was standing right in

554
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: that area. If you have the shooter shooting from the hip,

555
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense that with a little

556
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: bit of movement the shooter can produce both of those

557
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: shots and have it agree with the evidence that special

558
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: Agent worldly collected. Okay, I'm just loving this because if

559
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: you hear what he say to doctor Michelle Dupree and

560
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: then to doctor Heide Sievers, he says, if not exactly there,

561
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: then somewhere in that area there are too many and

562
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: I'm quoting him too, not exactly there, but in that

563
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: area a lot of variables could affect this doctor Michelde Preef.

564
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Nancy? I think most

565
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: of this is just some guesswork. He tells a good story,

566
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: but I don't think that it really forensically or scientifically

567
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: necessarily adds up. You know, I took away four really

568
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: important things from his testimony, and one, this is a shotgun,

569
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: and a shotgun is typically an aim and shoot. You know,

570
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: you point and shoot it. It's a great home defense

571
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: weapon for that reason. But you don't necessarily stand in

572
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: a shooter stance, and he discredits that for some reason.

573
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: The other thing, what about the person kneeling. I mean,

574
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: that could also explain a lot. And you know, later

575
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: on and you'll probably get to this, but he talks

576
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: about the casings, and we all know that casings are

577
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: going to eject, and in this case we assume they

578
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: adject to the right, but they do bounce, not so

579
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: much on ground like that. But also first responders coming

580
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: into the scene, they're there to protect life. They're not

581
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: worried about shell casings. I have seen them kick shell

582
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: casings across a room, so they could have dislodged these

583
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: from their normal space. In addition, he also testifies later

584
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: that these go through a couple of buildings, they go

585
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: through the kennel, and they go through the quailpen. Well,

586
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: that is going to slow down that projectile. Gravity's going

587
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: to take over. It's going to lose kinetic energy. And

588
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of this is just conjecture.

589
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: You know, I will never forget trying to determine whether

590
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: at a crime scene the shooting was a murder or

591
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: a suicide. And I saw the medical examiner investigators very

592
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: carefully measuring where the expelled casings were. But there was

593
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: a carpeted floor and they took all the measurements and

594
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, say Heaven, you got all that written down.

595
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: They went doesn't really matter because they bounced around on

596
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: carpet much less out in a wooded area at the

597
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: dog kennels, like you're describing. Okay, Doctor Heidi Sivers, founder

598
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: of Sivers Forensics, what do you make of the assertation

599
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: that there were two shooters? But the expert on the

600
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: stand called by the defense said, well, maybe not exactly

601
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: there the way I haven't pictured and this recreate video,

602
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: recreation video, there are too many varials, but maybe in

603
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: that area that's essentially what he said doctor Sivers. Yeah,

604
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: and see, I think it's interesting that he brings up

605
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: the fact that there are so many variables but then

606
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: essentially ignores the variables and still makes, you know, an

607
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: assertion of this is the area it happened. And to

608
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: kind of piggyback on what doctor Tupri said, they're not

609
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: taking into account kneeling. Right. They even brought up that

610
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: they actually actually measured the distance from the bottom of

611
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: his foot to his kneecap to account for potentially holding

612
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: it in that spot, But how about the height as

613
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: if he was kneeling, And testimony from doctor Kinsey and

614
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: Dave's prior suggested that the shooter outside of the feed

615
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: room when shooting Paul would have also been kneeling, So

616
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: I think they totally disregarded that possibility. And another thing too,

617
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 1: when we're looking at scenes like this, especially when you're

618
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: on a property where people are known to have firearms

619
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: and go shooting and hunting, there's something we do as

620
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: well as sequencing evidence and whether or not it's something

621
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: that is relevant. Yes, it is a bullet defect, but

622
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: making one hundred percent sure that was not from any

623
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: prior time, and again with not only first responders affecting

624
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: the location of the casings, but also the shooter as well.

625
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: Her being shot multiple times, there obviously was a significant

626
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: amount of time in that area where they could have

627
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: easily been kicked around inadvertently. So, guys, you heard me

628
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that not only did they defense expert give

629
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: this opinion that you just heard, but he also hypothesize

630
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: that the killer was very short. Okay, Christine, you did

631
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: it once. Could you do it again and pull up

632
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: the sound where they identify the killer as being very short.

633
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: Let's say if you put a five four person even

634
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 1: or five five, five six in kind of that shooting

635
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: position from the hip, you've got to move them all

636
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: the way up to the quail pin, and it doesn't

637
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: make any sense there because there's no shell casings, and

638
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: it starts to not make any sense. I tried it

639
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: with a five four, tried it with a five nine.

640
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: Will just put light in that work, because it puts

641
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: the person under the shed close to the quailpin. Doesn't

642
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: make much sense being under there. There are no shell

643
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: casings there. So in order to get the shooter at

644
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: the cross of the two shot trajectories near the empty casings.

645
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: Then you've got to you've got to lower that in

646
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: terms of Alec Murdoch, who is altall? Is he six

647
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: three six four? So could you say to a degree

648
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: of engineering certain more probably than not, Alan Murdock of

649
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: the night did not file that fire that shot, in

650
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: my opinions, is very unlikely that he fied that shot. Okay,

651
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 1: So doctor Michael dupree, what do you make of that? Wait?

652
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: Is that ritter jumping into mcdonnaugh. McDonough, Go ahead, Chris

653
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: and Nancy. Just as a couple of things to consider here, right,

654
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: some of these, you know, one offs, the height of

655
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 1: the shooter, etc. So I've done a lot of work

656
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: with many experts, like the two docks here. One thing

657
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: that's not being considered. If we take a look at

658
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: the very first video of the body camera of when

659
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: the first responders got there, Alex Murdoch is actually emerging

660
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: from the exact area of where this recreationist is saying

661
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: where those shots are coming from. So if we go back,

662
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: it's even before this, right when they first get there,

663
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: the officer as he's getting out of his parts at

664
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: that moment, you see Alex start to emerge from that

665
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: particular area. And so the question I would have for

666
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: this particular witness is what if somebody who six foot

667
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: four is kneeling, And if that individual is kneeling, does

668
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: that change the height and the trajectory of that round

669
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: going down range? And then you would also have to

670
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: take into consideration the height of the victims when that

671
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: first round got off. And remember these are such high

672
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: velocity rounds as they're going down and forward, and the

673
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: doctors know this more than anybody is. Sometimes they have

674
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: a tendency to tumble after they strike a particular item,

675
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: and in this case, it looks like it was Maggie,

676
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: and so that could also change that trajectory again because

677
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: if it hit bone, if it went through flash, etc.

678
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: Then that round coming out could go into all kinds

679
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: of different directions, including what we're seeing here in the

680
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: evidence it's being presented here. So I think that's a

681
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: very subjective and I agree with the two doctors here.

682
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: There's just too many variables that have not been accounted for.

683
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: And I hope to see the state take this Shawn

684
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I

685
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: want to hear what you said again. And Christine did

686
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: you play that video you were just showing Chris mcdunnan

687
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: joining us from the interview room about Alex Murdock emerging

688
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: when the cops got there, emerging from that particular area

689
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: you described. Could you say that again as we watch

690
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: the video, Nancy. If so, this clip here is when

691
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: they actually get up to him, but as the patrol

692
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: car pulls up and he reaches in the back seat

693
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: to grab his flashlight, if you could pull that piece up,

694
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: you'll see Alex Murdoch will emerge from the left side

695
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: towards Maggie. I thought that was a really interesting positioning

696
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: that he took when the first responders got there. There's

697
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: a lot of behavioral analysis that could go on with

698
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: that particular piece of the puzzle. But you'll be able

699
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: to see it on the clip when you back up

700
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: to where the first responder is pulling out. So we

701
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: also learn from Buster Murdog the family position on Mallory Beach,

702
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: and it's an eye opener. Remember Mallory Beaches, this gorgeous

703
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: young team girl that was on the boat with Paul

704
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 1: Murdog who actually had an alter ego that his friends

705
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: called Timmy because when he would drink too much, which

706
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: apparently was often a whole other personality would emerge. And

707
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: that night, apparently Timmy was at the wheel when Malory

708
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 1: Beach flew over the side of the boat, the Alex,

709
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: the Murdog boat, when Paul Murdog crashed into cement pilings

710
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: and Malory Beach was killed. Take a listen to our

711
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: cut six from Buster Murdog where you sued, Yes, sir,

712
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: was your dad's suit he wasn't was your mother's suit

713
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: her estate became sued. Was your mother anxious about the

714
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: civil lawsuit? Yes, sir? What was her biggest concern her?

715
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: I would say her biggest concern was reading articles after

716
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: you know, Mark Tinsley had made a statement about how

717
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 1: much money he was wanting to collect in the civil lawsuits,

718
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: and I think it was to the tune of like

719
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: forty mi million dollars or something like that he was

720
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 1: trying to trying to get and that made her anxious.

721
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: What took priority the criminal case against Paul or the

722
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: civil kid the criminal case. You know, amongst the family,

723
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: none of us thought that he was driving the baby

724
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: and Emerson did he just say none of them Murdoch's

725
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 1: thought Paul Murdoch was driving the boat with Mallory Beach

726
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: flew up against us cement piling see her death. He

727
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: did Nancy, And we've heard this now also from Marion Proctor,

728
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: Maggie's sister. She also said that Maggie didn't believe that

729
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: Paul was driving the boat and had told her so.

730
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: Now we also know that the night of if we

731
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: go back to that night of the boat crash, one

732
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: of those reasons could possibly be because when Paul spoke

733
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: to his grandfather, Randolph Murdoch akay handsome, and also was

734
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: reaching out to his own father. They asked him who

735
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: was driving the boat, and he said Cotton Top, which

736
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,959
Speaker 1: was a nickname for Connor Cook. So possibly that's where

737
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: this was coming from. I would have to I would

738
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: have to guess that that's got to be part of

739
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: why they thought that was because Paul told him himself

740
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: that he thought it was Connor that was behind the wheel,

741
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: at least at the at the beginning. That's what we

742
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: heard on from testimony from the Cooks. Okay, all right,

743
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: so Paul Murdog is the source of the theory that

744
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: he Paul Murdog was not driving the boat. The night

745
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: Mallory Beach was killed, resulting in a multimillion dollar lawsuit

746
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: against Paul Buster, Alex and Maggie Murdog. Okay, Doctor Michelle Dupree,

747
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: you and I went to the location of the crash.

748
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: You could see the cement pilings a mile away. We

749
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: studied the statements of the witnesses on the boat. There

750
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: were several other people on the boat that night, and

751
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: they all said Paul Murdoch was driving and speeding in

752
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: the dark, and they were all begging him to stop.

753
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: And if that when one girl begged him to stop,

754
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: I think Paul Murdoch slapped her. Somehow one of the

755
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: girls got slapped in the face that night, all of

756
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: them begging him to slow down and get away from

757
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: the boat. Will do you remember that, doctor Dupree? I

758
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: do remember that, Nancy, And you're absolutely right. That is

759
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: what one of the girls said. And you know, Paul

760
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: wasn't driving the boat. Timmy was. And Timmy is such

761
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: an alternate personality. He completely changes. He becomes agitated, a

762
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: little bit violent, and he starts to shake his hands

763
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: actually start to shake. And many of the people on

764
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: the boat that night actually described that. And you can

765
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 1: see that in one of the videos where he's beginning

766
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: to walk down towards the boat on the pier. Doctor Dupree,

767
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: please never say that again that Paul was not driving,

768
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: that Timmy was, because Timmy is Paul. That is Paul's

769
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: alter ego, as diagnosed by his friends. No shrink said

770
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: that that's basically Paul when he's drunk out of his

771
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: gourd and now he was behind a wheel with all

772
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: these people they're on the boat begging him and isn't

773
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: it true? And Emerson that the night of the crash,

774
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog was spotted at the hospital going from room

775
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: to room like a vampire, trying to get the other

776
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: people on the boat to not speak to police about

777
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: the boating crash and to basically change their testimony. They didn't.

778
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: He did not want it out that Paul was driving. Well.

779
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: Alec and his father showed up at the hospital that

780
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: night and they were going room to room. There's a

781
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: lot of testimony not just from the kids that were

782
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: at the hospital, but also from the hospital staff in

783
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: hospital security because they ended up having to get involved.

784
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: According to the testimony and the depositions that we've read

785
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 1: through that they were actually to get out of those

786
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: rooms or stay out of those rooms. And I think

787
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: even one of the passengers, Morgan might have Paul's girlfriend

788
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: might have been the one that was like, I do

789
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: not want him coming into my room to talk to me. Now,

790
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: this is also led into another state law enforcement investigation

791
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: as far as whether or not there was any interference

792
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: with that investigation, so that investigation actually is still ongoing.

793
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: But apparently they had Maggie and Paul, who is just

794
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: Maggie and Buster who has just come down off the

795
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: stand convinced that Paul was not driving. Okay, I don't

796
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: know that. I got to doctor Heide Severs, founder of

797
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: Sivers Forensics, about the theory that the shooter was about

798
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: five two to five four. What do you make of

799
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: that theory? I think it is definitely a strategy by

800
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 1: defense to deflect from all of these other testimonies we've

801
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: talked about today, And just like we were mentioning those

802
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: other variables, I think it's not taking into account those

803
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: other variables. Although the witness brought up that there were variables,

804
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,439
Speaker 1: those seem to have been forgotten. So apparently we can't

805
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: be one hundred percent certain on location, but somehow we

806
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: can be certain on the height. So again, just like

807
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: the other people here have spoken about that, it is

808
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: seems like a little bit of a shot in the

809
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: dark because we're not taken into account kneeling and fire

810
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: and positioning. And just like that was mentioned how that

811
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 1: projectile can change angle and directionality based on what it

812
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: strikes and may ricochet off of. So doctor Heidi Sivers, guys,

813
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 1: you can find her at Savers Forensics dot think if

814
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: dot com savers. When you say there are many variables,

815
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: what do you mean by many variables that could affect

816
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: the angle the trajectory path of the bullet. So first

817
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: we have to try and account if that defect was

818
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: made by a bullet that struck straight into it, or

819
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: if it went through or hit an intermediate object before then,

820
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: such as the victim. So if it had gone through

821
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: another intermediate object such as the victim or anything else,

822
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: it could have changed its directional path as well as

823
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: the angle. So the angle that they're showing one and

824
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: a half, and I think there was another one that

825
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: said three. A little bit of a difference there that

826
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: is subjective to those other variables, So that calculation is

827
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: also being made as far as the height based on

828
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: where the shell casings are, and we've kind of all

829
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: discussed that showcasings are light, right, they're very easily to

830
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: be moved, kicked around, and adjusted, both at the time

831
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: of the incident as well as the aftermath until crime

832
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: scene personnel are able to document them. So from the

833
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: time they're expelled from the firearm until the time that

834
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 1: law enforcement and forensics can document them, there's a lot

835
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: of time and a lot of people moving in and

836
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: out that may not see those shell casings on the ground.

837
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: And to bring up the body worn camera from when

838
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: they first arrived, you can hear law enforcements saying there's

839
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: so many shell casings all over the place that matched

840
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: those three hundred blackout casings. So that's what I mean

841
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: by so many variables, both with the trajectory path of

842
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: the bullet and if it's struck an intermediate object, as

843
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: well as what he's basing his analysis off of, which

844
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 1: seems to be he has a lot of faith in

845
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: the positioning of those casings. Mmmm, everything you said is

846
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 1: exactly correct as I understand the facts, Doctor Savers. Doctor

847
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,959
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree. In addition to what doctor Heidi Savers said,

848
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: You know, she has all of the technical aspects of

849
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: ballistics down called. I was thinking of, did the sheeter

850
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: was the sheeter closer to the body than depended in

851
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: that recreation. They've got the sheeter out here, but if

852
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: the sheeter was actually right here? Hey, Christin, can we

853
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: pull that up where? You know they did the green line,

854
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, like when you're watching Fox football, they change

855
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: the line down the middle of the field like for

856
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: the first intense. So they create this line, this trajectory path.

857
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: But what if the sheeter was closer or further away?

858
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: What if the sheeter was kneeling. What if the grass

859
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: was wet and their arms slipped when they actually pull

860
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: the trigger. What if the victim was moving, What if

861
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 1: the victim was standing up. What if the victim was

862
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: crouched down when they saw a gun emerge. That's what

863
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: I think about variables, not really technical variables. All the

864
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: correct ones and the precise ones that doctor Severs pointed out,

865
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about the surroundings, the environment where the

866
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: shooting took place. Doctor Dupree, exactly, Nancy, And remember that

867
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: there was stippling or tattooing on the body, which means

868
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: that the barrel of that gun was probably approximately within

869
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: three feet or so. I'm not sure that they took

870
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: that into account. We don't know the length of the barrel.

871
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait wait, wait wait wait wait wait wait, hey, Christine,

872
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: please leave that picture up. She's got the picture of

873
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: I was talking about, doctor Dufree. Now go ahead, because

874
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,799
Speaker 1: I want to look at this recreation the defense did

875
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: while you're talking. Okay, go ahead, doctor Dufree. So we

876
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: know because there was stippling on the body or tattooing,

877
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 1: we know that that barrel of the gun was approximately

878
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: three feet or so away from the body. We don't

879
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: know how long the gun barrel is, but we have

880
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 1: some idea because we know that it's a long gun

881
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: and it's a shotgun unless it was sought off, which

882
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: is unlikely to be at the hunting range. So that's

883
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: something that I don't think was taken into consideration either exactly,

884
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: Aunt Emerson. I'm running out of time, but I've got

885
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: a couple of questions for Joshua Ritter. But first I

886
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: want to hear from you, Ann Emerson. Who else do

887
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 1: we think the defense is putting on? Well, right now,

888
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: this it looks like this could go on for quite

889
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: a while in the afternoon. Now we are hearing that

890
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: there there could be even more family members more certainly

891
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: more experts. I know that they mentioned at least a

892
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: couple more experts that they're going to be flying in,

893
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: so I'm expecting them to be looking at at more

894
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: of these forensics and the crime scene. I did want

895
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: to bring up, you know, there were a couple of

896
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: interesting things as y'all are just talking about this forensics expert.

897
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: You know, one thing is keeping in mind your audience,

898
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: and that audience is the jurors right during this during

899
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: this trial, and I was watching them very closely with

900
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: this new three D flying over the shed and the

901
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: crime scene. It's some information that they knew existed from

902
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: the state, but it wasn't shown to them. Really. They

903
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: were looking at more of a two dimensional drawings, so

904
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: their their interest was peaque. They understood flying through this

905
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 1: a little bit better. I think they got some points

906
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: with that, but also just the optics of having did

907
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: y'all notice that there were like two figures on that

908
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: Pharaoh three D landscape? There were two figures, and I

909
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: just don't think I think that was very clever of

910
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: the defense to keep that in the optics of this case,

911
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: because I think that's something they're going to be able

912
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: to visually. I thinks are thinking about that, Joshua Ridder question,

913
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: and I'm going to do a lightning round with you

914
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: since we're hearing everyone's making their way back into the courtroom.

915
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: Do you think that because of what we heard today

916
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: that the jury will be taken to the same Yeah.

917
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: I think they should be. I think that would be

918
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: important for them to see it as much as a

919
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: rule that all of these angles and directions and distances

920
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 1: have played. I think they should be if the prosecute.

921
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: If I were the prosecution, I want them to see it.

922
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: Joshua Ritter, I've noticed every in every single case I

923
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: have ever tried or covered, the defense always projects they've

924
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: got a huge US witness list, and they never do.

925
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: Maybe they decide less is more, But do you believe

926
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: there are that many more witnesses for the defense? No.

927
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: I think that they've probably put on the strongest witnesses

928
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: that they have so far, and today I would expect

929
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: to see maybe one or two more. That is, you know,

930
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: putting aside the million dollar question, if the defendant himself

931
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: doesn't take the stand. That was my next question. Do

932
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: you think you'll take the stand? You know so many

933
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: people who have speculated on this. As a defense attorney,

934
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: you're always in the position where you don't want to

935
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: put your client on the stand. But dealing with this

936
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: man who seems to like to talk to police, seems

937
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: to have an ego, and there's a lot of unanswered

938
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: questions that only he can answer. This might be one

939
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 1: of those rare, rare carreases where you actually see him

940
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: take the stand. You know what, I think there's too

941
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 1: much of a downside for him to take the stand

942
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: if he listens to his lawyers. I don't think he

943
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: will do it. And regarding putting up more relatives, be

944
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: careful what you ask for, heart Pootian for you will

945
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: get exact actually what you want. You put relatives on

946
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: the stand, they may be on cross examination, open to

947
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: discussing drug problems, lies in the past, possible affairs. I

948
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: would be very selective about what relatives I put on

949
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: the stand. They may know too much to undergo or

950
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: survive cross examination. Okay, everybody's going back in the courtroom. Guys,

951
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: Thank you to all of our experts for being with us.

952
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: We're going straight back in the courthouse. Thanks for being

953
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: with us, everybody. Goodbye.