Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome Back to Quest Love Supremes March and as this tradition,
Speaker 2: we are celebrating Women's History Month with some special programming
Speaker 2: drawing from the archives.
Speaker 3: This is part.
Speaker 2: One, you know, kind of my positioning.
Speaker 3: While I have a platform, be.
Speaker 2: It music, movies, be it podcasting, you know, it was
Speaker 2: always important to make sure that we right the wrong
Speaker 2: and give some agency to people who otherwise won't ever
Speaker 2: have that platform. And this is the lesson that I
Speaker 2: learned from Richard Nichols back when we were developing the
Speaker 2: Black Lily Jam sessions and making show that there's a
Speaker 2: shout out to lay you that there's a balanced voice,
Speaker 2: and you know, especially in the early episodes, you can
Speaker 2: definitely hear fighting for her space to get her words
Speaker 2: at it. You know, as wise, which is necessary, you know,
Speaker 2: and as history has shown us, women have been leading
Speaker 2: the way and as a.
Speaker 3: Result we should celebrate them.
Speaker 2: You know, it's unfortunate that we're all relegated one month
Speaker 2: a year. It should be this way all year round.
Speaker 2: But definitely the history of a lot of our favorite artists,
Speaker 2: especially with the women that have come through QLs, is
Speaker 2: important to hear. It's important to know the history, and
Speaker 2: we will continue to elevate and escalate the stories.
Speaker 3: As we celebrate Women's History Month.
Speaker 2: One of the musicians who's done so much to elevate
Speaker 2: women in the last decade is Without a Doubt Rhapsody
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen album Eve was inspired by women black women, specifically,
Speaker 2: with each of the sixteen songs named after a figure
Speaker 2: of history, and in our QOLS conversation, rhaps City spoke
Speaker 2: about that album and even before, how the team at
Speaker 2: rock Nation, including a strong female staff.
Speaker 3: Motivated her to partner there.
Speaker 2: You should definitely check out the Eat Records Timeless album
Speaker 2: if you haven't.
Speaker 3: Along with her new Grammy winning work or Please Don't Cry.
Speaker 3: All right, So, what was.
Speaker 2: The process in the decision to roll with Rock Nation
Speaker 2: for yourself?
Speaker 4: We knew that, you know, as an indie label, we
Speaker 4: can only do so much like budget and marketing wise,
Speaker 4: and really getting the exposure that I wanted. So, you know,
Speaker 4: when we took the meeting with Rock One, I'm a
Speaker 4: big j fan Offgate, but walking into the building and
Speaker 4: at the time, Shaka Pilgrim was president and you walk
Speaker 4: in and fifty percent of the staff of women and
Speaker 4: it's so so many different cultures and we came in
Speaker 4: with Lailor's wisdom probably eighty percent done. And they didn't
Speaker 4: ask us to change a single whow not one single thing.
Speaker 4: It was always all right, what do y'all want to do?
Speaker 4: What even envision? Like what are you thinking of the music?
Speaker 4: They never every eve they didn't ask to change or
Speaker 4: touch anything. And so to me, like the energy and
Speaker 4: just how much they love the culture. It didn't seem
Speaker 4: like I've been to death jam I think in Atlantic before,
Speaker 4: but this was this was different. This was all about
Speaker 4: culture and just music and they were really about growing
Speaker 4: with me. Like they wasn't pressure to have a radio
Speaker 4: single or it was just like, you know, we believe
Speaker 4: in you and your talent.
Speaker 5: We just want to how can we help? That's what
Speaker 5: it was. So that's why.
Speaker 2: And how did you feel the morning that the nominations
Speaker 2: came out?
Speaker 5: Yoh, And I don't know.
Speaker 3: What feeling for you. It's kind of first phone.
Speaker 4: Call, yo, think was the first one that hit me
Speaker 4: because I was in LA This was like five in
Speaker 4: the morning, so he hit me.
Speaker 5: He was like, yo, you're you nominated and you nominated?
Speaker 4: Uh? It wasn't twice, Yeah, twice, So I was like, yo,
Speaker 4: what like yo to be nominated, but to even be
Speaker 4: nominated twice like that was crazy for me. It was
Speaker 4: just like people were calling me. I couldn't even answer
Speaker 4: the phone. I had to just sit back and reflect, like, Yo,
Speaker 4: we're here, Like this is a different bar to be
Speaker 4: recognized at the highest level of music when of award
Speaker 4: show and then not have no Billboard hits and no
Speaker 4: platinum records, and to be in a category with Jay
Speaker 4: Z and Kendrick Lamar at the same time, It's just
Speaker 4: like man as not have to change nothing, not even
Speaker 4: have to put it on the tight dress. I cried
Speaker 4: a little bit, you know, but yeah, I was thankful
Speaker 4: that I stayed the course of anything.
Speaker 2: So I have to say that your your whole process
Speaker 2: of crafting the Eve album, it's just some amazing ass ship,
Speaker 2: you know, Like where did the idea even come from
Speaker 2: for crafting this album as an homage to the spirit
Speaker 2: of the black woman in America in the world and
Speaker 2: their effect like where's the Genesis and the seed born?
Speaker 4: Last summer summer twenty eighteen, I was doing an interview
Speaker 4: for the Oxford and this guy named Lamar Wilson. He
Speaker 4: was writing a piece on the lineage of Carolina musicians,
Speaker 4: and so he was connecting me with Nina Simone and ROBERTA.
Speaker 5: Flat So like I was just like, yo, I.
Speaker 4: Didn't I never thought of me connecting with them in
Speaker 4: that way because we just seemed like to like I
Speaker 4: just look, I put them up here, like there's no
Speaker 4: way like reconnected. But the way he broke it down,
Speaker 4: like you're both soul for you know, you're both lyrical.
Speaker 4: You know you both reflect the times and talk about
Speaker 4: what's going on in the community, your storytellers. I was like, man,
Speaker 4: I never thought about it in that way, like I
Speaker 4: do come from their family tree. And it made me think, like, yo,
Speaker 4: when I do interviews and people say, who are you
Speaker 4: influenced by? Yeah, I say creen my teeth and MC
Speaker 4: like Lauren Hill. But I talk about Sicily Tyson, I
Speaker 4: talk about I talk about.
Speaker 5: Nikki Giavanni, you know, Maya Angelo.
Speaker 4: And I'm just like, man, when I think about who
Speaker 4: I am and who I'm inspired by. Of course, you
Speaker 4: have your village, your mom, but there are so many
Speaker 4: black women that I look up to. And two, it
Speaker 4: gave me away creatively to show that there are so
Speaker 4: many different sides of me too. You know, people like
Speaker 4: to say or kind of put me in a box
Speaker 4: sometimes based on the music that I make that you
Speaker 4: know I had. We were in a studio one time
Speaker 4: and the dude was like, Yo, we thought, like a
Speaker 4: party for y'all is just like burning incense and y'all
Speaker 4: listening to my dude and all this, And I'm just like, bro,
Speaker 4: like what are you talking about? Like I grew up
Speaker 4: on Luke, I listened to Go Go, growing up, like
Speaker 4: I'm from snow Hill, North Carolina, Like That's the Sticks,
Speaker 4: like Boon's Fall, Like we listened to everything. So there
Speaker 4: were so many sides of me. So it's like this
Speaker 4: is a way where I could take a different woman
Speaker 4: to not only describe like my different personalities, but also
Speaker 4: talk about them and continue their legacies and say that
Speaker 4: we all are we all come from a family tree.
Speaker 4: I think after I did that interview, like I went
Speaker 4: home and I'd always wanted to do a song about
Speaker 4: being a tomboy, especially in this day and age and
Speaker 4: what that looks like.
Speaker 5: And I did it.
Speaker 4: And because of the way I started the song when
Speaker 4: Aaliyah was alive and I was like, i'mnna just call
Speaker 4: it Aaliyah And as soon as I did that, it
Speaker 4: all just clicked came together. Yeah, the conversation, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I got this song, Alia, I could do this with this,
Speaker 4: with this Felicia Rashad taught me about motherly love.
Speaker 5: Nikki Giovanni taught me the power words and blackness.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, in the videos, which I also feel are
Speaker 2: crucial components to the vision of that, Like what were
Speaker 2: the concepts for the well, not the concepts, but you
Speaker 2: know as far as like I personally want you to
Speaker 2: make a video almost for every song.
Speaker 5: I know too too.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to make it happen right now. We just
Speaker 4: did a Feenie too long ago. Yeah, we did a Phenie.
Speaker 4: I still want to add to it. It ain't all the
Speaker 4: way right.
Speaker 6: Wait, so so far you got a Phoenie. What videos
Speaker 6: do you have for which?
Speaker 4: Yeah, oprahaj Phenie will be the third one. The next
Speaker 4: one I probably want to do Cleo, whoop be Alia, Serena.
Speaker 4: I want to do one for every song like I
Speaker 4: see it, So no problem putting this list together.
Speaker 5: So the list putting.
Speaker 3: Because you mentioned that you left earth Kit. Was it
Speaker 3: just for spacing on the.
Speaker 4: Album or just say see the first draft we had
Speaker 4: twenty three songs. You know, we we knew like it's
Speaker 4: too long because people today can't digest music the way
Speaker 4: the same way like they they tap out it. At first,
Speaker 4: I was going to do a part one and a
Speaker 4: part two, so sonically, you know, we have this one
Speaker 4: and the part two is gonna be It was gonna
Speaker 4: be way more soul for and more boombap heavy. That
Speaker 4: was gonna be like for Lisha Rashad DJ Spenderella, she
Speaker 4: has a song.
Speaker 3: Who we are going to get a sequel?
Speaker 7: Harriet?
Speaker 5: I was like, I got different ideas, there's more music coming.
Speaker 6: I love you what it's so journal route and you
Speaker 6: said I'm not going to do to Harriet, So I
Speaker 6: was like maybe there's Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was Harry, which one do I name it? But yeah,
Speaker 4: so but as there's I did like forty women.
Speaker 2: As far as where you are right now, like what
Speaker 2: do you feel that your goals are, Like do you
Speaker 2: have do you have a five year plan as far
Speaker 2: as like this point from now, like developing other acts
Speaker 2: or like just make more music.
Speaker 4: Or definitely make more music. I think it's the foundation
Speaker 4: of everything. But I want to expand artistically because you
Speaker 4: know the way I write, Like I want to get
Speaker 4: into not only writing songs that I want to write films.
Speaker 4: I want to get behind the camera and produce documentaries.
Speaker 4: I was in the in the rock office with TII
Speaker 4: to day. He was like, you need rites or beat
Speaker 4: pop records. It's like, you know, so you know, I
Speaker 4: definitely want to try it. Like I'm just like, let's
Speaker 4: try and see what happens. Just but just do a
Speaker 4: lot of more things artistically. I thought about starting a label.
Speaker 4: I don't know how I feel about that yet, but
Speaker 4: Mesa Hilton's son, Nico Brehm, he's an EMC, so I
Speaker 4: want to help. I'm helping it because you can produce
Speaker 4: his album. That'll be my first time like taking that role. Okay,
Speaker 4: but yeah, just like really expand on that, but always
Speaker 4: putting out music.
Speaker 3: Giving back to what was given to you. Okay, I
Speaker 3: see that. That was Rhapsody who worked with Ji or Eve.
Speaker 3: Next up is Sophia Chained.
Speaker 2: Sophia spent years managing the JIGSA and Sophia's a powerful
Speaker 2: woman in the industry, known her for years with her
Speaker 2: association with Wu Tang Klin and she speaks about that
Speaker 2: union and recalls an illustrating story of method man standing
Speaker 2: up for a woman towards somebody he seemingly came up with.
Speaker 3: All right, here's Sophia.
Speaker 8: I think that I have a unique lens into the
Speaker 8: wouniverse because of who I am, but also who they
Speaker 8: allowed me to be and how they let me come
Speaker 8: into their world, and I think that speaks volumes about them.
Speaker 8: I also managed, so I managed all three three letter
Speaker 8: members of Wu tang Od B, r z A and GZA.
Speaker 8: I managed Riza what I call his extracurricular activity. So
Speaker 8: I did not manage him as an MC, and I
Speaker 8: did not manage him as a producer, but I managed
Speaker 8: him as a composer and then his beginnings his transition
Speaker 8: into Hollywood. Yes, so his first his first kid composing
Speaker 8: was ghost Dog. That was not me, Uh, that was Nemo,
Speaker 8: who was very close. I believe he's Jim Jarmis his nephew,
Speaker 8: and Nemo brought Riza into UH to Jim, and then
Speaker 8: I kind of picked it up from there. So it
Speaker 8: was kill Bill and it was Blade and I believe
Speaker 8: it had soul plane. So we did that stuff together,
Speaker 8: and he had all already started writing and directing. But
Speaker 8: you know, the thing that I say about Rizza is
Speaker 8: he is truly living his childhood dream. So when I
Speaker 8: was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor. I
Speaker 8: wanted to be a fashion designer. I never thought that
Speaker 8: I'd be doing this and I love my life. But
Speaker 8: Rizza as a child, growing up one of I believe
Speaker 8: eleven children of a single mother, growing up in the
Speaker 8: projects of Staten Island in Brooklyn, he watched Kung Fu
Speaker 8: movies and he imagined and dreamt that he would one
Speaker 8: day direct. And now he's directing Kofu movies and he's
Speaker 8: writing them and he is starring in them. And I
Speaker 8: actually don't know anybody else who had this vision. And
Speaker 8: he is truly a visionary from when he was a child.
Speaker 8: So managing Rizza was a delight. Managing Jigsu was also incredible.
Speaker 8: I would say that Jizza was my favorite client because,
Speaker 8: and you know Jizz like I do. He's incredibly low key,
Speaker 8: and he's so gracious, and he is so magnanimous, and
Speaker 8: he doesn't want to be recognized, and he doesn't want
Speaker 8: to be famous. He doesn't want to be an of
Speaker 8: those things. And he is so kind and I really
Speaker 8: love managing him because he allowed me to transition him
Speaker 8: into lecturing, and not every client lets you do that, right,
Speaker 8: So somebody might say, I've thought about it, so, but
Speaker 8: I don't really want to do it because there's this
Speaker 8: thing I do and I'm so comfortable and I've been
Speaker 8: doing it for decades and I'm getting paid and I
Speaker 8: know how to do this, whereas lecturing is very very different.
Speaker 8: You're basically standing naked. There are no pyrotechnics, you don't
Speaker 8: have a hype man, there's no DJ, there's no lights,
Speaker 8: there's no sound. And your audience they're not drunk, they're
Speaker 8: not high, right, they're just all sitting there and they're
Speaker 8: looking at you, and you're standing at a podium and
Speaker 8: you are speaking. And literally the first place he lectured
Speaker 8: was Harvard. That's the Korean in me. And literally the
Speaker 8: first words out of his mouth were I'm so nervous,
Speaker 8: and that's Jesus what. Yeah, he said, yeah, and you
Speaker 8: know what, the same and you know what, I did
Speaker 8: the same thing with Joey and say he said the
Speaker 8: exact same thing.
Speaker 6: What was the I'm just curious what was what was
Speaker 6: just his first lecture on.
Speaker 8: So he spoke about his love of science. You know
Speaker 8: he he like is deeply intellectually curious. He spoke of
Speaker 8: his love of science. He spoke about his his inspiration
Speaker 8: and his creative process.
Speaker 6: Can you can you talk about real quick? In the prologue,
Speaker 6: I had a moment I had a Mama where I
Speaker 6: was jealous of you in describing the relationship with Wu
Speaker 6: Tang because of a situation that happened with methad Man
Speaker 6: and the god Jamal. And I was jealous because as
Speaker 6: a woman who's been in the industry for years, we
Speaker 6: all know what it's like. You know, you're telling beautiful stories,
Speaker 6: but at some points, being that woman in the room
Speaker 6: can be adversarial. It can be dismissive, yes and question
Speaker 6: in that moment of no protection. Right, So I don't
Speaker 6: know if you want to reiterate that story, but sure
Speaker 6: also in a way, I also wanted you to tell
Speaker 6: the the opposite of that story when it wasn't that
Speaker 6: protection there with methad Man.
Speaker 8: Right, I mean so when I when I was are
Speaker 8: doing a and R, I was insecure around it. Right,
Speaker 8: I'm thinking I'm a Korean Canadian French lip major and
Speaker 8: do I really deserve this job of being a gatekeeper
Speaker 8: and an arbiter of a culture? Again that is not mine?
Speaker 8: Right and so, but the way that hip hop embraced
Speaker 8: me was really fortifying and gave me a lot more confidence,
Speaker 8: but nothing more than when Wu Tank claimed me. So
Speaker 8: it was very very early on. I might have met
Speaker 8: Meth once before. I go to the studio to see them,
Speaker 8: and he says, Sophie, you got to see I just
Speaker 8: got my video in for method man. And so he
Speaker 8: takes me to the back lounge, whisks me past everybody,
Speaker 8: takes me to the back lounge and he sits me
Speaker 8: down and he plugs in the tape and he stands
Speaker 8: on the wall, doesn't sit with me, stands against the
Speaker 8: wall to watch me because he wants to see my
Speaker 8: response to the video, and sitting next to the television
Speaker 8: facing me. So this gentleman is not watching the screen.
Speaker 8: He's looking at me, as Meth is is this guy
Speaker 8: jamal So the video play is, and I'm super excited.
Speaker 8: I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god,
Speaker 8: because I'm already in love with Meth. And so the
Speaker 8: video play and as soon as the video ends, he
Speaker 8: looks at me and he says, where are you from? Now, anybody,
Speaker 8: any person of color, will tell you that's a loaded question.
Speaker 8: If you ask a white person that they're going to
Speaker 8: be like, oh, I'm from Columbus right, or or you
Speaker 8: know my parents are whatever, But this is a loaded question.
Speaker 8: So I am a petite Asian woman in the inner
Speaker 8: inner sanctum of Wu Tang, of Wu Tang's world, and
Speaker 8: it is clear to him, and I could see the calculations.
Speaker 8: It is clear to him. I'm not sleeping with any.
Speaker 5: Of those boys.
Speaker 8: He also knows that I don't manage any of them
Speaker 8: at this point, I don't an r any of them.
Speaker 8: So who is this? And how did she get in?
Speaker 8: And again to this day, when I'm around Wu Tang,
Speaker 8: I am almost always the only woman in the room,
Speaker 8: and that's a very privileged place where I sit. So
Speaker 8: he keeps and so I feign innocence, and I say, well,
Speaker 8: what are you asking me? Where are you from?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 8: I don't really know what that means. Where are you from?
Speaker 8: And then I broke and I said, okay, well, if
Speaker 8: you're asking where I was born, I was born in Vancouver,
Speaker 8: my parents are Korean. If you're asking where my parents
Speaker 8: are from, there from you know, Korea, if you're asking
Speaker 8: where I live. But before I could even finish answering
Speaker 8: this in this very methodical way, Meth just flew in
Speaker 8: between us. I don't know if you've ever met him
Speaker 8: in person. He is six four and he is notoriously
Speaker 8: the nicest with his hands of the Klan. Wow and yeah,
Speaker 8: no no, no, oh boy, no he can they can all
Speaker 8: throw the fuck down. Yeah, but Meth and Ghost forget
Speaker 8: about it. So he flies in between us and she
Speaker 8: just expands like the Hulk. And he was like, that's
Speaker 8: Sophie Chang and she's down with wou tag. She's some
Speaker 8: shallon motherfucker. Don't you ever who the fuck are you
Speaker 8: to ask her where she's from?
Speaker 9: Don't you ever.
Speaker 8: Disrespect her again? And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 8: my god. Now nobody had ever defended me like this,
Speaker 8: and I was just it was just this extraordinary moment.
Speaker 8: But so the demonstration was amazing. But to deconstruct in
Speaker 8: what I think I want people to understand is he
Speaker 8: knew exactly what the fuck that guy was saying. Do
Speaker 8: you know what I'm saying? He totally understood that it
Speaker 8: was there was there was a racial subtext to it,
Speaker 8: and there was a gender subtext to it. Right, he
Speaker 8: didn't give a shit where I was from, because essentially
Speaker 8: he wasn't asking a question. He was saying, what the
Speaker 8: fuck are you? And what are what the fuck are
Speaker 8: you doing here? Because you don't belong here? I belong here,
Speaker 8: You don't belong here. And you know, again wanting to
Speaker 8: tell people about the humanity of Wu Tang. Now, Meth
Speaker 8: has known this guy for I'm sure a long ass time.
Speaker 8: This might be the second or third time he's met me.
Speaker 8: And his feeling was like, nah, Bie, we're not fucking
Speaker 8: doing that because she's ours. And what I say about
Speaker 8: Wu Tang is that, Look, I had several friendships in
Speaker 8: hip hop and enduring ones that I have to this
Speaker 8: day before Wu Tang. I was embraced and I was welcomed,
Speaker 8: but Wu Tang claimed me.
Speaker 6: That's special.
Speaker 8: So it's a thing that you're talking about to mere right, Like,
Speaker 8: So what I'm saying is that everybody knew that they
Speaker 8: were going to be huge, and there were hordes and
Speaker 8: hordes and hordes of people surrounding them, and for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: They just went like this, you're coming with us.
Speaker 8: We're keeping her right here. And I feel that way
Speaker 8: to this day that I will never ever leave that
Speaker 8: breast pocket.
Speaker 3: Oh boy.
Speaker 2: Okay, the Scieta Garrett episode from twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorites. So we were wrapping the
Speaker 3: interview and.
Speaker 2: Layah asked a question about a T shirt that showed
Speaker 2: how an amazing singer songwriter is making a way for
Speaker 2: women to learn computer coding skills.
Speaker 6: Because aren't you involved this T shirt that you're wearing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, black girls code?
Speaker 6: Can you just talk about that?
Speaker 7: Real, dude.
Speaker 10: I was at a graduation for some some people that
Speaker 10: are are learning code and learning how to impact uh
Speaker 10: technology through art and music and business, and we wanted
Speaker 10: to this.
Speaker 7: This movement is to teach.
Speaker 10: Black girls that they can code their own computer games
Speaker 10: and they can program their own uh they can they
Speaker 10: can compute themselves, and they don't have to be young
Speaker 10: white boys to learn how to uh to to code
Speaker 10: and and create your own video games and and computer programs.
Speaker 3: You could.
Speaker 5: Black girls can do it.
Speaker 10: And I think the movie Hidden No Hidden Fences, I'm
Speaker 10: just kidding. Hidden Figures did a lot to sort of
Speaker 10: show people that math is good for girls, and you know,
Speaker 10: black girls can compute some ship. So I'm just here
Speaker 10: to support that that every black child looks at a
Speaker 10: video game or looks at something on their program on
Speaker 10: their computer or an app or something and think I
Speaker 10: wanted to be able to think, Hey, I can improve that,
Speaker 10: or I can make a map for this, or I
Speaker 10: can do that. You I don't think they don't even
Speaker 10: teach that in school, so nobody really hasn't an idea
Speaker 10: that they can aspire to do something like that. So
Speaker 10: I'm here to be the liaison and just to be
Speaker 10: a vessel to promote that message. Black girls can do it,
Speaker 10: we can code, we can do some shit up in here.
Speaker 5: So yes, a a.
Speaker 2: Friend who has two daughters that are like their dream
Speaker 2: is to be video games.
Speaker 8: And black girls code.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sheila, what can you say? She's made so much
Speaker 2: history as a musician, as an activist, as a woman,
Speaker 2: and in the segment you're about to hear, she was
Speaker 2: speaking about her musical family and if she ever felt
Speaker 2: discouraged as a young woman at the drums, and her
Speaker 2: answer is so powerful, as.
Speaker 3: Is the rest of the clip.
Speaker 2: When your assert herself as a visionary who refuses to
Speaker 2: back down.
Speaker 3: All right, Sheila, the.
Speaker 2: Roots never practice as a band like we just you
Speaker 2: do three hour shows for three hundred and sixty five
Speaker 2: days out the year.
Speaker 3: Then it's right, So you.
Speaker 6: Just jam with your family and now, yeah.
Speaker 9: Just jamming and stuff. Yeah, But to sit down and
Speaker 9: say I'm going to learn a rhythm and a part
Speaker 9: so i can get better, I'm sorry.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 2: See, my parents made me practice to keep me from
Speaker 2: going out on the streets.
Speaker 9: And they did the right thing.
Speaker 2: Right, But I'm saying, like, but you grew up in
Speaker 2: the household with other musicians, so I'm certain that it
Speaker 2: was more like a jamming thing.
Speaker 9: It was. Well, yes, that.
Speaker 3: Weird though, I mean, is it?
Speaker 2: I also I I I'm not not that I'm big
Speaker 2: on jamming, but there's something very vulnerable about a jam
Speaker 2: session that makes it very hard for me to do
Speaker 2: in front of people.
Speaker 3: I know. Okay, so the first the first day of.
Speaker 2: Taking the Tonight Show gig, and it's just the eight
Speaker 2: of us facing each other, sort of like the circle
Speaker 2: we're in now, it was the hardest thing in the
Speaker 2: world to do. Like, I stopped the session after five
Speaker 2: minutes and call my manager like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do, Like, what do.
Speaker 3: You just just start playing a song?
Speaker 2: Like cause I think it's it's a it's a vulnerable
Speaker 2: intimate thing almost. I hate to be creepy with the
Speaker 2: metaphorical thing, but I mean it's like intimacy, and you know,
Speaker 2: the thing is that you have to be on I mean,
Speaker 2: we're on good terms with each other as a band,
Speaker 2: but it's it's sort of like I think that you
Speaker 2: also socially have to be in tune with the person
Speaker 2: that you are playing with in order to get that
Speaker 2: the desired result. And so it's I think that's it's hard.
Speaker 2: So I'm it means that you were able to jam
Speaker 2: or borderline envious that you're able to like play with
Speaker 2: your family.
Speaker 9: Like, yeah, we grew up like that. So I mean,
Speaker 9: anytime the opportunity, if they were sitting out, let's go play,
Speaker 9: all right. We started getting into this whole thing and
Speaker 9: then taking solos and going into different rhythms and like
Speaker 9: just jamming.
Speaker 3: In the house, in the backyard, outside, absolutely in.
Speaker 9: The house in the backyard, at the parks down at
Speaker 9: Berkeley College and on telegraph all the time. We were
Speaker 9: down on the streets just jamming in the mission in
Speaker 9: San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, for real?
Speaker 6: Your brothers and sister like oldest, youngest, how does.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so I'm the oldest, my brother one, my brother
Speaker 9: Peter Michael, my sister Zina.
Speaker 6: Because I was wondering why you got I was like,
Speaker 6: how does she get picked out of everybody to go
Speaker 6: jam with dad and do the direction? They played too,
Speaker 6: they played with it seemed like you guys had a.
Speaker 5: Special relationship you or your dad.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I was first, So there you go answer my question.
Speaker 3: So how unusual in your childhood was it?
Speaker 2: For I know that drums are normally associated as a
Speaker 2: more masculine us uh instrument to play, So how unusual
Speaker 2: was it? Like did you get any ribbing whatsoever? Tease
Speaker 2: like you played the drums, or like why don't you
Speaker 2: play piano or why don't you play guitar?
Speaker 9: Like or people?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just saying, was there anyone to discourage you, like, well, that's.
Speaker 2: Not a young lady shouldn't be playing? Like do you
Speaker 2: have a grandmother that said like she.
Speaker 3: Shouldn't be playing the drum?
Speaker 6: Can't wear a dress and play the drums?
Speaker 9: Oh no, my family. No one in the family ever
Speaker 9: said anything.
Speaker 3: So it was a supernatural to supernatural.
Speaker 9: No one ever said my parents, my uncles, cousins, they
Speaker 9: all play. No one ever said you can't play because
Speaker 9: you're a girl, because everyone would pick up something and
Speaker 9: just play. My mom plays Guido, she plays a little
Speaker 9: bit of Conga's, she tap dances, she sings. You know,
Speaker 9: it's just a entertaining family. And every time we go
Speaker 9: to a party, even with the family, we'd put on
Speaker 9: Jackson five, Temptable, whatever, James Brown, and we just start
Speaker 9: imitating people. So we grew up like let's let's who's
Speaker 9: going first, and the and the the way to get
Speaker 9: to the party. Well, in the party, as soon as
Speaker 9: my mom would starts singing da d everyone start running
Speaker 9: to the living room. It's like the time for that's
Speaker 9: the intro.
Speaker 7: Time.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Then my mom would break right
Speaker 9: into tap dance and then we'll see who's gonna play
Speaker 9: what record and start dancing. So I was never told.
Speaker 9: Never ever, until I left uh the house and started
Speaker 9: performing with other artists did people say things. But even
Speaker 9: in school, no one really said, oh, you know, you
Speaker 9: can't play because you're a girl.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 9: I mean it was always cool. It's like, you know,
Speaker 9: everyone was in school was like stope.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean on the other side of the coin,
Speaker 2: like did they make a big deal of it because.
Speaker 3: You were dope or you know, it was like yeah,
Speaker 3: every time you play, like like it's a novelty thing
Speaker 3: that we're watching or whatever.
Speaker 2: Because yes, I think with the exception with the exception
Speaker 2: of what's her name, I think her name was Cookie,
Speaker 2: there was there was a Jersey based group in the
Speaker 2: seventies called Ecstasy, Passion and Pain Odness. Uh, the mom
Speaker 2: deep sample, the realist.
Speaker 3: Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do. I'll
Speaker 3: play it later, but yeah, there's they were. I mean
Speaker 3: they had a.
Speaker 2: They had a run from like seventy three to seventy six,
Speaker 2: but they did like three appearances on Soul Train. So
Speaker 2: oh wow, that's the first time I saw like a
Speaker 2: woman playing.
Speaker 9: Drums but she was actually playing drums. Yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 9: I gotta check it out.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was going to say, did you have
Speaker 2: anyone that you looked up to that was Smith?
Speaker 3: Yes, but they call it Cookie. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did you have anyone that you looked up to that
Speaker 2: was a woman that was playing drums when you were
Speaker 2: coming up at all.
Speaker 9: The only woman that I saw play ever, especially drums,
Speaker 9: was Karen Carpenter when her and her brother had their
Speaker 9: variety show. Yeah, and she was killing it, you know.
Speaker 9: And as soon as I saw around television, I turned
Speaker 9: to Pops and said, how come I don't have a
Speaker 9: TV show like nine or something? What do you mean?
Speaker 9: I said, I played drums. I played just like her.
Speaker 9: How come can't we just get a TV show? He goes, sure,
Speaker 9: you can. I mean, it was never like no, you
Speaker 9: can't play because you're a girl that no one else.
Speaker 9: That was never said.
Speaker 2: But in your formative years, did anyone think like, yo,
Speaker 2: there's no one that we know of that can fill
Speaker 2: in the slot, and you'll be the first to like yeah,
Speaker 2: that time would have been revolutionary. So I'm saying, like, right,
Speaker 2: was there anyone thinking like dollar.
Speaker 3: Signs like, No, we didn't.
Speaker 9: Actually, As a matter of fact, when I first started
Speaker 9: playing and sitting in with other bands and they wanted
Speaker 9: to pay me, I thought it disrespectful to pay me
Speaker 9: because I know it's kind of weird. Yeah, I thought
Speaker 9: it was disrespectful because I loved it so much. It's like,
Speaker 9: don't pay me for something I really love. I'm just
Speaker 9: I just want to do it, like this is my passion.
Speaker 9: I don't And then Pop was like, come here.
Speaker 3: He took me in the kitchen.
Speaker 9: Yeah, he took me in the kitchen, open the kitchen door, refrigerators,
Speaker 9: like we need some food. You gotta it's okay to
Speaker 9: get paid, It's okay. And I'm like, oh, okay, all right, cool?
Speaker 6: Were you at that moment?
Speaker 9: Fourteen?
Speaker 2: So I was gonna ask at what age were you
Speaker 2: when you were like a total Jedi master, as in,
Speaker 2: like I could close my eyes and know.
Speaker 9: I haven't got you, I haven't gotten there yet.
Speaker 2: Good answer, Good answer. Now I gonna ask you again
Speaker 2: this time just dropped up.
Speaker 9: No, I'm so serious. I'm being honest.
Speaker 2: I'll ask you at what age were you when other
Speaker 2: musicians took you? Totally serious as in I want her
Speaker 2: for at what age were you when you started?
Speaker 9: You know, they still sometimes don't take me, say, sister,
Speaker 9: can't get a call for a gig nowhere me, I'm.
Speaker 3: Telling you.
Speaker 6: Because you're beyond. They're like, I can't afford.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh I could have called you. See
Speaker 3: that's what happened.
Speaker 6: That's not nothing to do with That's that.
Speaker 3: That's because we're afraid of you.
Speaker 6: You're at a mountain top and now it's about of climbing.
Speaker 9: It's like, yeah, no.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know you're not owning the superhero thing,
Speaker 2: and I know that artists hate the fan worship thing, but.
Speaker 3: Your existence is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 9: So no, thank you. I mean I underst stand it now,
Speaker 9: But seriously, when when growing up, I mean, I didn't
Speaker 9: get it, and I don't think we realized it even
Speaker 9: Pops until later on it's like, okay, well wait a minute.
Speaker 3: You know that wasn't ignoring you. That was more like
Speaker 3: we're not worthy.
Speaker 2: There was one time I think I was going to
Speaker 2: call you for a things and it's only because I
Speaker 2: saw that you did was it loving you?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: And I saw your credit and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: oh she would, she would come down to earth and mess.
Speaker 9: At what point in.
Speaker 6: Your life were you thinking like this because you said,
Speaker 6: you know now you understand now why people weren't calling,
Speaker 6: But like, at what point?
Speaker 9: Because until I started speaking with people, it's like you know,
Speaker 9: how you doing? Oh you know, like and then I
Speaker 9: was like, wait a minute, you know, I'll come and
Speaker 9: do a session, you would, I mean.
Speaker 6: And Stevie wanted to play the piano, and you said.
Speaker 9: No, Listen, this guy, this dude, this producer called me.
Speaker 9: I could have lapped in through the phone. He called
Speaker 9: me and he said, hey, Sheila, I just want to
Speaker 9: know something, all right, okay, yeah, what you need I'm doing.
Speaker 9: I'm producing this record on this girl. I want to
Speaker 9: know how to get the Sheila, und do you know anybody?
Speaker 3: But you're on the phone with her right now.
Speaker 9: I did. I said, wait a minute, how can you
Speaker 9: my sound? You want to you want me to refer
Speaker 9: you to somebody else?
Speaker 7: Dude.
Speaker 3: Okay, here's another thing, and we're skipping. We're skipping the
Speaker 3: line here.
Speaker 2: But I believe that the the number one weapon of
Speaker 2: the Purple Cloud period, or just that period with Prince,
Speaker 2: the number one weapon was mystery and anybody associated any
Speaker 2: at least in my eyes, like you know, when I
Speaker 2: was ten, eleven, twelve, seeing you guys, it was like
Speaker 2: it was some untouchable. We're too I don't mean arrogant,
Speaker 2: like we're too good for that, but you know a
Speaker 2: different yeah, even like that, we are the world perception like, oh,
Speaker 2: we never do that like in our minds, we're just
Speaker 2: like you guys would only do your music and you're
Speaker 2: laughing at us mere mortals like.
Speaker 3: Brand kind of like that.
Speaker 9: But we weren't gonna say no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 9: we you know what the it's weird. It's like it's
Speaker 9: like being in this room, all of us here, we
Speaker 9: just start playing and jamming and next you know, four
Speaker 9: days later you might have cut another record. I mean,
Speaker 9: it was just like we love being in a studio,
Speaker 9: and after being with everyone, you know all the time,
Speaker 9: you kind of forget that there's a world happening, there's
Speaker 9: something's going something is going on. At one point, Prince
Speaker 9: and I just we felt like we're in a bubble
Speaker 9: and and until we woke up at the end of
Speaker 9: Purple Rain, it's like, wait, what just happened? We didn't
Speaker 9: even we didn't understand it at all.
Speaker 3: Okay, so now I know that you're available for TESSI
Speaker 3: warton what was it? The important thing?
Speaker 9: Yes? I am so.
Speaker 2: What was your very first gig as a professional percussions.
Speaker 9: Pops playing his percussion player got sick. He had a
Speaker 9: band called that Techas signed to Clive Davis. They were
Speaker 9: touring out with Temptations, Stevie, Wonder, earth Wind and Fire.
Speaker 9: Pops's percussion other percussion player got sick and I said,
Speaker 9: I'm fifteen, Pops, I know all the music.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 9: Let me play this show.
Speaker 11: And I was like coach.
Speaker 9: He was like, no, you can't do it. And I
Speaker 9: was like, Pops, come on. He said, you're only fifteen.
Speaker 9: You can't you know they're out on tour with all
Speaker 9: these bands. No, you can't do it. You're only fifteen
Speaker 9: years old. And I said, moms, Pops won't let me
Speaker 9: play in the band. Well, thank you. So I got
Speaker 9: my way, and so I played that show in San
Speaker 9: Francisco for I think it was then Mayor Moscone I think,
Speaker 9: and it was for three thousand people and the band
Speaker 9: was killing. You know, fifteen years old, like I've been
Speaker 9: playing with these a couple of other bands and they
Speaker 9: were like knockoff some Santana music. So we knew all
Speaker 9: that stuff. And my dad was in Santana right before
Speaker 9: having the band ass Teca, and that band ass Techa
Speaker 9: was formed with When Santana's band broke up, Carlos broke
Speaker 9: up his band half the band with with my dad
Speaker 9: Neil Sean Lenny White on drums. All those people were.
Speaker 3: For a journey. Uh huh okay, yep.
Speaker 9: So they were playing with my dad in Azteca, and
Speaker 9: so you got this caliber of musicians in these people
Speaker 9: playing with an eighteen piece, you know, five six horns,
Speaker 9: three singers, three percussion players, to keyboard players to guitar player.
Speaker 9: I mean it was insane and all this music, and
Speaker 9: it's like I wanted to play in that band. So
Speaker 9: I got to play in the band. And it just
Speaker 9: brings you. If you're set in a place, it's going
Speaker 9: to force you to go somewhere you've never been before.
Speaker 9: You know. I wanted to make sure that I was
Speaker 9: there representing, and I mean I went for it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 9: You know, my dad turned to me at one point
Speaker 9: and he said, you know, I want you to take
Speaker 9: a solo. You know, like he's gesturing to me, you know,
Speaker 9: play from your heart. I'm like, I'm so scared. I
Speaker 9: closed my eyes and I started playing a solo and
Speaker 9: black felt like a blackdown. I just left the planet.
Speaker 9: And next thing I know, I remember looking up in
Speaker 9: the sky. I was up in the sky, like floating,
Speaker 9: looking at myself, playing in the looking at the entire
Speaker 9: room with my dad looking at me. I'm looking at him,
Speaker 9: and the crowd is just starting to roar it and
Speaker 9: I saw it like from above. It was so weird,
Speaker 9: and I when I finally with my eyes did I realize,
Speaker 9: like all of a sudden, you know, like in a
Speaker 9: movie and you hear the music like coming back in
Speaker 9: out of nowhere. That's how I felt. And then I
Speaker 9: started shaking because I got scared, like, wait, did I
Speaker 9: just what happened?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 9: And I felt like it was an odd of body
Speaker 9: experience and my hands were shaking, and in the at
Speaker 9: the end of my soul, I looked at Pops and
Speaker 9: I was I just started crying while I'm still playing.
Speaker 9: And then I heard the roar of the crowd and
Speaker 9: just like and it just got loud and it was
Speaker 9: a standing ovation and I was like, I don't even
Speaker 9: know what's I was just looking. I was just crying
Speaker 9: like crazy, and we ended the song. The show stopped,
Speaker 9: went backstage, and I was like, Pop's daddy, Daddy, I'm
Speaker 9: going out on tour with you. This is what I
Speaker 9: want to do.
Speaker 3: That's what I want to do.
Speaker 9: I know, and I know what I know.
Speaker 6: This is it was that the first thing, the last
Speaker 6: time you had that feeling like that moment.
Speaker 9: No, that was the beginning of my purpose. That was
Speaker 9: the beginning. And Pops looked at me and then we
Speaker 9: hugged and we just started crying. He's like, I don't
Speaker 9: even know. How do you know all this? I was like,
Speaker 9: I don't know. I think I was watching you. I'm
Speaker 9: like a sponge. I don't know. We had no idea,
Speaker 9: like all of a sudden, just on a jamma with
Speaker 9: a local band for six months, and then I went
Speaker 9: from that local band to professionalism. I don't know.
Speaker 3: So, okay, this is definitely the I.
Speaker 1: Gotta get a nass Techa record bro manc.
Speaker 9: There's two of them. You have to hear it. It's amazing.
Speaker 9: Seventy six five something like that. Seventy five four.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you as a drummer and as a musician.
Speaker 2: I was going to say that the one thing that
Speaker 2: I think that you won't ever able to be, that
Speaker 2: you'll never be able to avoid is the solo. Now
Speaker 2: that's the dividing line between you and I, because thank God,
Speaker 2: I've made a life in a career on the most
Speaker 2: minimalist kind of of approach to drumming.
Speaker 9: That's a huge gift to have it. It's a dangerous
Speaker 9: gift and a big responsibility.
Speaker 3: I know it's a dangerous gift. But the thing is
Speaker 3: is that.
Speaker 2: In my age and as I get older, like okay,
Speaker 2: so when I was in my twenties and my thirties
Speaker 2: or whatever, especially uh, the way that my arms are now.
Speaker 9: With uh when you do carble.
Speaker 3: Tunnel on everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's so painful now to take solo. So
Speaker 2: it's like I'm taking them less and less on your chos.
Speaker 2: How are you, especially when most of your solos have
Speaker 2: to have this you know this this climatic uh uh
Speaker 2: climatic applause from the audience, how are you able? Like
Speaker 2: do you not do you have a fear of soloing
Speaker 2: or no? Just but it's always expected of you, Yes,
Speaker 2: I see, like the music stops.
Speaker 6: Like go and yours has to be extra acrobatic, like it's.
Speaker 2: Always, yeah, you have to be. You're not even zero
Speaker 2: to ten. You have to go from zero to utter bond.
Speaker 2: You got to zero auto bond in like five minutes.
Speaker 2: And I'm just saying not even physicality or with with
Speaker 2: with with age whatever, but maybe there's just some nights
Speaker 2: you don't feel like turning it on and like. But
Speaker 2: that's pressure because you have to go from zero to
Speaker 2: a gazillion.
Speaker 3: It's expected of you at least two minutes.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's interesting because I don't I don't think of
Speaker 9: it as an I've got to be on on and
Speaker 9: offer I don't feel like it. I've never put myself
Speaker 9: in that position to feel like that. So I love
Speaker 9: doing what I do and if people ask me, I
Speaker 9: would love to do it. But I wouldn't walk into
Speaker 9: a room to say I'm not gonna walk in there
Speaker 9: because I don't feel like it. Then I should have
Speaker 9: showed up. I never want to put myself in that
Speaker 9: position and say, Okay, I gotta turn it on. No,
Speaker 9: I'm excited. If someone asked me to play, I would
Speaker 9: love to. So there's no on and off switch. You
Speaker 9: asked me, It's always on.
Speaker 6: Can I just I'm not fast forwarding? But I just
Speaker 6: have a quick question on that note, because I just
Speaker 6: watched you do the view and in my mind I said,
Speaker 6: she would not do this performance unless you have full
Speaker 6: hundred percent like comfortable. They would say yes, and you
Speaker 6: could do everything that you wanted to do. Is that
Speaker 6: like an example of that moment, because it was kind
Speaker 6: of amazing and groundbreaking some of the things that you
Speaker 6: did within it.
Speaker 9: Thank you. It was it was a it's interesting. It
Speaker 9: was a fight. It was a fight to get so
Speaker 9: we had. It was a fight, and I'm grateful ended
Speaker 9: up turning out good. But I always tell everyone, you know,
Speaker 9: no doesn't mean you can't do it. No doesn't mean
Speaker 9: you shouldn't a lot of time, no means opportunity. And
Speaker 9: I was like, this has just been insane the things
Speaker 9: that we had to do and change. And I mean
Speaker 9: it was, you know, from one thing to another, and
Speaker 9: I just kept saying, but no, this is the message.
Speaker 9: We have to send a message. I have to stand for.
Speaker 9: This is what we're trying to send this message. And
Speaker 9: we need the flag and it needs to be upside down,
Speaker 9: you know. And I need to put the the images
Speaker 9: in the backs so people can see what we're talking about.
Speaker 9: I need doctor King's speech, I need Kennedy's speech, you know,
Speaker 9: I need Obama's speech. You know. So it was a
Speaker 9: definite fight. But you know, again, how things turned around.
Speaker 9: We were only supposed to just play the music, and
Speaker 9: then it turned into two questions, and then there's then
Speaker 9: once they understood what we were trying to do, then
Speaker 9: they were behind us one hundred percent, and we're glad
Speaker 9: that they understood what we wanted to do. And then
Speaker 9: it turned into let's move you to segment five and six,
Speaker 9: and it's like, oh, now I get to explain what happened.
Speaker 9: But never give up, you know, never give up, and
Speaker 9: know me as opportunity men. I wasn't coming through that
Speaker 9: front door, but I came through that side door, you know,
Speaker 9: and I wasn't going to give up. But I still
Speaker 9: got there and it was better than it was going
Speaker 9: to be initially.
Speaker 3: Sorry for those of us who don't watch the view kind.
Speaker 6: Of regular, don't have to move your neck like that
Speaker 6: when you say the word.
Speaker 12: Okay, I just I don't watch most of the time,
Speaker 12: So what can you just tell us what the performance was?
Speaker 9: Yeah, and you can go on Sheila YouTube channel to
Speaker 9: watch it too, or my Facebook Okay, yeah, Sheeli drummer, she.
Speaker 3: Let's watch im.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 9: The beginning of it is I did the funky national
Speaker 9: anthem I call it so the national anthem with some things,
Speaker 9: and I had speeches in in the song as well.
Speaker 6: She kneeled while she played with.
Speaker 12: The speeches samples of the actual speeches or was somebody else, No.
Speaker 9: It was the actual Like I got the okay from
Speaker 9: Doctor King's estate and family to use his images and
Speaker 9: his speeches on my record. That was huge because they
Speaker 9: just don't do that for anybody, for anybody.
Speaker 3: It was super political. It's funky national anthem.
Speaker 1: I got it, man, you gotta have me a funky.
Speaker 6: When I reposted it, I was like, it was nice
Speaker 6: that they allowed you to show your love and your
Speaker 6: frustration for this country.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Emma's last segment, we're gonna speak to some of the
Speaker 2: first ladies of Depth Jam. First, if you will, the
Speaker 2: legendary Faith Newman, the woman who would later sign NAS
Speaker 2: to Columbia and has been instrumental in getting.
Speaker 3: Day La Soul the rights back to the music. But
Speaker 3: before all that, she was one.
Speaker 2: Of the first five employees at Deaf Jam Records. Emma's
Speaker 2: brief clip she mentions Lisa Cortez, who will also tell
Speaker 2: her story of getting down with the label and why
Speaker 2: it was truly like family. Like Faith, Lisa went on
Speaker 2: to do great things and music as well as film
Speaker 2: Part two of her twenty twenty three QLs chronicles her
Speaker 2: documentary Little Richard I Am everything.
Speaker 13: Well, you know, I started working at Deaf Jam in
Speaker 13: eighty seven and right, so you know when I was
Speaker 13: still in college, and it was just an amazing, amazing time.
Speaker 13: Just some of the best years of my life were
Speaker 13: spent there. I was one of the first five people
Speaker 13: at the company, first woman.
Speaker 3: Right. I was going to say, if you.
Speaker 2: Were a woman in that environment, I know that you
Speaker 2: have to have the toughest skin of all time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you're like what you're around. You were around twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one in that environment.
Speaker 13: Yeah, wow.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, there was no such thing as HR department.
Speaker 2: There was no HR department, there was no trigger warnings,
Speaker 2: there was none of that shit.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 13: You know what's interesting though, was that before def JAM,
Speaker 13: I interned at Columbia Records eighty six and yeah, and
Speaker 13: you can imagine what that was like then. You still
Speaker 13: I don't know if you saw the show No, the
Speaker 13: one that got canceled on HBO about the record thank You,
Speaker 13: Thank You, thank you, It was like that.
Speaker 12: Like canceled yeah, yeah, yeah, one and done done yeah
Speaker 12: damn next to or that was damn I was.
Speaker 3: Actually I was into it too. Yeah, I liked it
Speaker 3: as well. But wow, but.
Speaker 13: Those guys you know in eighty six that were in
Speaker 13: the record had been in the record business since, you know,
Speaker 13: whenever the seventies were still there, and that's where I
Speaker 13: got I experienced more harassment, you know what I mean.
Speaker 13: And I feel like with hip hop though, it's like
Speaker 13: I never could have gotten a job at Columbia unless
Speaker 13: I wanted to be somebody's assistant, you know.
Speaker 2: But so you're you're saying that working at Columbia in
Speaker 2: eighty six prepared you for the tough skin of the
Speaker 2: battles that you would have to deal with.
Speaker 13: Yeah, you know, it's funny, like I don't know if
Speaker 13: it's my youth or whatever, how much I loved hip hop.
Speaker 13: It just I didn't think of myself as a woman first.
Speaker 13: In hip hop. I just felt like, you know, that's
Speaker 13: kind of how it was with everybody who worked at
Speaker 13: Deaf Jams, Like we were all young and we were
Speaker 13: just totally immersed in the culture. And you know, Russell
Speaker 13: was known for hiring women. Russell was known for other
Speaker 13: things a.
Speaker 3: Well chosen uh yeah.
Speaker 13: Hiring.
Speaker 3: Verb there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, were there any other women at the time. That
Speaker 6: maybe because you know, you were the first at Deaf Jam,
Speaker 6: but were there anything.
Speaker 13: There were women at Rush. So what you had was
Speaker 13: in the in Elizabeth Street, you had Rush Management was
Speaker 13: on the first floor, and you had Lisa Cortez and
Speaker 13: Heidi Smith. Yeah Cortez who.
Speaker 6: Went on to work with Lee Daniels.
Speaker 13: Yeah, he's just doing great things in film.
Speaker 3: Women's the moment that you were like, I want to
Speaker 3: get in the industry.
Speaker 13: Uh.
Speaker 7: Nine years old. I convinced my mother to let me
Speaker 7: go to the Children's Theater Workshop, which was a dance
Speaker 7: school run by Miss Connie, and they put on many musicals.
Speaker 7: I'm trying to get on your next show, and so
Speaker 7: we did Gypsy. So you can imagine, you know, from
Speaker 7: three year old kids to teenagers doing once I was
Speaker 7: a Schleppa, now a Miss Mazeppa, you know, like, because
Speaker 7: Gypsy is a musical about a stripper and I had been.
Speaker 3: Very it was you want to be in that musical?
Speaker 7: I do it all the time.
Speaker 1: Wait, I didn't know that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Stephen Sondheim And it's the story of Gypsy Rosalie
Speaker 7: and how her sister was going to be the star
Speaker 7: and their mother pushed the sister forward, and then the
Speaker 7: sister ran off with one of the dancers because it
Speaker 7: takes place in the vaudeville time, and then Gypsy they
Speaker 7: end up in a shitty show and the mother's like,
Speaker 7: you're going to be an exotic dancer, and Gypsy goes
Speaker 7: on to become one of the famous vaudeville strippers.
Speaker 2: I was in this play in like fifth grade and
Speaker 2: didn't realize how many kids.
Speaker 9: In these plays.
Speaker 6: I don't understand what we're all doing this play kids
Speaker 6: performing art.
Speaker 2: Well, at my school, it was like from first grade
Speaker 2: to twelfth grade, so it was the older kids, but
Speaker 2: they found like roles for like the elementary kids to
Speaker 2: play in.
Speaker 3: So I didn't really did show Boat.
Speaker 7: We did name, We did Gypsy Name. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was very Charles's assistant. Well, my sister played via
Speaker 2: Charles and I had to.
Speaker 7: They made a role for Meerry.
Speaker 3: I did hair in high school. I was hood Were
Speaker 3: you naked?
Speaker 8: Fu?
Speaker 3: Then you didn't do hair?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was a very a very tame
Speaker 2: down Republican version, but I did it.
Speaker 7: You were here, you were bald?
Speaker 3: Yeah. I grew my hair out, but they wouldn't let
Speaker 3: us do all the news, all that we wasn't doing.
Speaker 7: That shit plays. So I found my voice. I went
Speaker 7: my mother said to get your grades up. I got
Speaker 7: my a's and I auditioned and discovered that I could sing,
Speaker 7: and then I loved movement and performance and connecting. Fast
Speaker 7: forward the summer I was fourteen, when everybody rebels, I
Speaker 7: locked myself in my room and I just listened to
Speaker 7: Ella's Gershwin songbook, Cole Porter Songbook.
Speaker 3: I just not heat waved, not.
Speaker 7: Of course, Evelyn Champagne King, you know, I mean my
Speaker 7: father's playing Celia Cruz. I mean there was a lot,
Speaker 7: a lot of music. And I also read the back
Speaker 7: of albums and I was like, who is this mixer?
Speaker 7: I just I you know, I would bathe myself in music.
Speaker 3: You found bath you said rebelling.
Speaker 2: So in my mind, I'm like, oh, okay, this is
Speaker 2: when like she discovers bad brains or sex pistols or
Speaker 2: the promos. And I'm like, girls when your parents dream, but.
Speaker 6: Your peers are like, what the fu?
Speaker 7: And then I discovery hip hop.
Speaker 3: What was your first hip hop record?
Speaker 7: I'd say it's it's rappers Delight?
Speaker 3: How were you when rappers Alight? Came out, I'm not.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 7: I don't talk about age younger than springtime, younger than Spring.
Speaker 3: I got it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So how do you nuance your way into was
Speaker 2: Maroon era def jam?
Speaker 3: Your deaf jam or black label def jam?
Speaker 7: You're general, I'm Maroon, I'm nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 3: Tell me everything about it?
Speaker 7: Okay, it's it's This is one of my favorite How
Speaker 7: do you get in the music business when you have
Speaker 7: no connections? So I went to Yale and when I
Speaker 7: was there, I had this incredible group of friends. One
Speaker 7: of them's sister named Lisa Jones uh Mary Baraka's Starter.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: We were just these young, feisty kids, and we were
Speaker 7: working on a magazine that Lisa was putting together. She
Speaker 7: was part of that great crew at the Village Voice
Speaker 7: at that time, and she wanted to do a magazine
Speaker 7: called Diva Dacooning. I was into hip hop, and I
Speaker 7: was like, I want to write about women in rap.
Speaker 7: So I talked to her stepsister, Dominique de Prima, you know,
Speaker 7: in the Bay. I talked to the sister Tequila Mockingbird,
Speaker 7: who was kind of in the punk scene in Los Angeles,
Speaker 7: and I really loved this article. And a friend of
Speaker 7: mine who worked at Spencer Beck worked in Interview magazine,
Speaker 7: and I told him about this article and I I'm
Speaker 7: really excited about because nobody knew there was women in
Speaker 7: rap and so he said, you should go talk to
Speaker 7: Bill Adler. He is the publicist at def JAM. So
Speaker 7: I just called and Bill said, come on in. So
Speaker 7: I'm just chatting with Bill. He's the most amazing, giving,
Speaker 7: knowledgeable person. And a guy across the room said, who
Speaker 7: did you talk to in l A. And I said, oh,
Speaker 7: Tequila Mockingbird. That guy was Lee or Cohen, So what
Speaker 7: are you doing right right? So Tequila shows up in
Speaker 7: New York and I bring tequila to the office. I'm
Speaker 7: a good baker. I made this ginger cake and I
Speaker 7: brought my resume and we all hang out body BLA
Speaker 7: and Jimmy Spicer was the receptionist. But Jimmy Speiser never
Speaker 7: picked up the phone with the different calls because he'd
Speaker 7: be chatting some woman up, so I didn't get the job.
Speaker 3: Wait you stop.
Speaker 2: This is the second time that we've heard the story
Speaker 2: of someone charming the deaf gm staff to nuance a
Speaker 2: job via pastreets. Because you also remember Kevin Lyles with
Speaker 2: his girl, you know, his chew money. Every morning at
Speaker 2: six a m. Would buy everyone orange juice, and lee
Speaker 2: Or was like impressed, Like this guy's clean up the
Speaker 2: office and buying us donuts.
Speaker 3: And that's how he got.
Speaker 2: Like Russell was like, get away from me, kid, but pastries, timeout,
Speaker 2: Jimmy Spicer's dollar Billy.
Speaker 3: What.
Speaker 7: So I'm this kid.
Speaker 3: Love it when he does voices.
Speaker 7: To say that, Oh yes, So I keep trying to,
Speaker 7: you know, roll up in there and you know, impress
Speaker 7: them and and you know, it was pretty chaotic, but
Speaker 7: it was also very small. There was not that many
Speaker 7: people there. And I've went to a Luther Vandro show.
Speaker 7: I conned my way into the party backstage because you know,
Speaker 7: you just got you got to get in or actually
Speaker 7: you need to make a whole. You don't even fit in.
Speaker 7: You make a space. And I run into Leor, who
Speaker 7: was friends with Shep Gordon, who was Luther's manager and
Speaker 7: ll Cool Jay. And I walk up to lee Or
Speaker 7: and I go, hey, you remember me. I gave you
Speaker 7: my resume on the good paper. It was like the
Speaker 7: heavy weighted paper of his cream color that mattered. And
Speaker 7: he said, well, you know what, I actually need someone,
Speaker 7: I need an assistant. Call me. So I keep calling, calling, calling,
Speaker 7: and then I got him on the phone one day
Speaker 7: and I said he picked up because Jimmy Spicer was
Speaker 7: talking to some woman and did not pick up the phone.
Speaker 7: And I said to Leor, you know, I don't really
Speaker 7: know if you know, you'll like me or I'll like you,
Speaker 7: but I'll come and work for you for half a
Speaker 7: day for free. And then half a day turned into
Speaker 7: five years a lifetime.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So from eighty six to ninety one. Wow, Okay, so
Speaker 2: Dill was about to start to come out.
Speaker 7: Yep. I was there when.
Speaker 3: Original concept is definitely yeah, yep.
Speaker 7: And I was there when we made to ninety eight
Speaker 7: Elizabeth Street, right when I came in and met with
Speaker 7: mister Bill, Bill Stephanie and uh, you know the sign
Speaker 7: the public enemy.
Speaker 3: What is leear like then?
Speaker 6: Because the Leo were like, no, now, it's such a
Speaker 6: big personality.
Speaker 7: And he was he was he was big.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and look you know what he so he was
Speaker 11: always that person like the way that people im Flower, yeah,
Speaker 11: the way people imitate Lauren Michael is that like Lauren
Speaker 11: and Leo are the two most imitated execs that I know,
Speaker 11: but they always have a sort of disapproving father and untouchable.
Speaker 6: They're untouchable, Like it feels like in ways right they
Speaker 6: sit like you can touch Lauren, but Leon and Laurna
Speaker 6: in that way kind of.
Speaker 3: I know, softer in Leon now like Lear is like
Speaker 3: he's right right.
Speaker 7: So it's that Bali effect from Russell.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you at the time, because I know
Speaker 2: that it's hard, like I'm such a history buff, but
Speaker 2: you know, I think people don't appreciate something until like
Speaker 2: time has passed, like five years later or ten years later,
Speaker 2: you're like, wow, I was really part of the team
Speaker 2: that brought one of the biggest hip hop records selling
Speaker 2: records to the world, like licensed to Ill or.
Speaker 3: You know that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But like for you, though, is are you recognizing that
Speaker 2: history is being made on the spot or was it
Speaker 2: just like man whatever.
Speaker 7: They became my family because the crazy thing is the
Speaker 7: first week my dad died when I was fifteen, and
Speaker 7: the first week that I went to work there, my
Speaker 7: mom died. Wow, oh no, And you know this small
Speaker 7: group from Russell Lee or Heidi Smith, Bill Adler Simone
Speaker 7: who was our receptionist, Bill Stephanie. They you know, they
Speaker 7: took care of me. They loved me. I remember one
Speaker 7: day I got mugged and Eric b and Rock him.
Speaker 7: They came to the office and they heard. I was like, Lisa,
Speaker 7: I got a black guys like God who got got
Speaker 7: bugged and lived in New York. I lived in the
Speaker 7: real deal. And they were like, well, if you'd like,
Speaker 7: we could find somebody who could get for you, a
Speaker 7: nice little ladylike gun with a with a mother of
Speaker 7: pearl inlay.
Speaker 6: I was like, nice style, that's very.
Speaker 7: That's what love looks.
Speaker 1: Like in a nice voice, too, pretty gun, a very
Speaker 1: nerdy voice.
Speaker 3: Nothing scares me more than nerdy thugs.
Speaker 6: You know that's rare. I just want to tell you,
Speaker 6: as a woman, especially in hip hop, it's rare to
Speaker 6: hear this level of feeling protected and loved and all
Speaker 6: of that. So I'm just get it.
Speaker 7: Because I also fought for them. You know, people will
Speaker 7: tell you we because this is right before everything blows up.
Speaker 7: I worked very closely with le Or putting together that
Speaker 7: Adida Steele because I actually wrote a letter to Fela,
Speaker 7: because Houdini has a song called do the FeelA, and
Speaker 7: I wrote him a letter and I was like, you
Speaker 7: guys need to do a deal with Udini because they're
Speaker 7: speaking to this market. Because I was an American studies major,
Speaker 7: I like popular culture. I like seeing you know, how
Speaker 7: we as black people start stuff that is then going
Speaker 7: to take over the world. But FeelA is like, oh, no,
Speaker 7: thank you. But so then when the Adidas time came,
Speaker 7: there was a lot that had to be translated about
Speaker 7: why this group was so important and how much did
Speaker 7: they need though they needed some. There was a guy
Speaker 7: named Angelo Anastasio who saw it and he was the
Speaker 7: advocate for it, but you know, he was communicating with
Speaker 7: people in Germany. They did the music had not spread
Speaker 7: there yet. And what I learned in those days it
Speaker 7: still helps me now, is about the power of community
Speaker 7: to cross over this music. You know, we had Dave
Speaker 7: Funkinklin who later came to work there, who was in
Speaker 7: Colorado playing this music. I don't know, two o'clock in
Speaker 7: the morning. We had the car dealer drug dealer in
Speaker 7: Houston who would play our records and bring our artists there.
Speaker 7: You know, we had Paul Oakenfeld and Pete Tong were
Speaker 7: with London Records, which put out run DMC in the UK, Yes,
Speaker 7: and they were hip hop heads and they would the
Speaker 7: first stop Oki yes, wow Oki doki damn.
Speaker 2: He never most people on the other side of the
Speaker 2: fence will go over time to like explain their hip
Speaker 2: hop deedigree. Like we toured with Oakinfeld during the area
Speaker 2: one tour and talked a lot. He never once gave
Speaker 2: a like hip hop pedigree and da da da da
Speaker 2: da da da really yeah, damn.
Speaker 7: Haul When they would come over, the first stop is
Speaker 7: they'd come to ninety eight Elizabeth Street like that. It
Speaker 7: was great, you know, everybody would come through there. And
Speaker 7: then when him and Pete Tong become these Dan Selectro people,
Speaker 7: I was like, wow, interesting. So there was this community,
Speaker 7: there was the people from Japan there, you know, who
Speaker 7: ultimately become a part of the ground swell of the
Speaker 7: music crossing over and the ripple effect culturally. So these
Speaker 7: you know, I remember we went to London and I,
Speaker 7: you know, would make myself the European door manager so
Speaker 7: I could get a little holiday, and you know, we
Speaker 7: would they we got kicked out of a hotel or
Speaker 7: people didn't the food they wanted and I would just
Speaker 7: like be like, no, you cannot treat these guys this way,
Speaker 7: so I love them then. I love them now because
Speaker 7: I recognized how ground I didn't maybe knew what I
Speaker 7: was in, but I knew it was something exciting and
Speaker 7: groundbreaking and necessary and a part of how our narrative
Speaker 7: as black people. We were taking it to something new.
Speaker 7: Now it was going to become. I didn't know that
Speaker 7: I was young and dumb, but I knew in my
Speaker 7: heart that they had to be treasured and that it
Speaker 7: wasn't okay to be like, oh the rappers there, No,
Speaker 7: these are the artists.
Speaker 2: And thank you for tuning in and celebrating Women's History
Speaker 2: Month with the QLUS.
Speaker 3: Come back next week from.
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