1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: On this episode of news World, we have a special treat. 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: My new book, March to the Majority, The Real Story 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: of the Republican Revolution, comes out in June sixth, and 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: my co author Joe Gaylord, who was absolutely central to 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: our ability to elect the first majority in forty years 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: and our ability to get re elected for the first 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: time in sixty eight years, has agreed to spend some 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: time on this podcast talking about how we did it, 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: why we wrote the book together. Joe is the former 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,319 Speaker 1: executive director of the National Republican Congressional Committee. He's been 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: my longtime political advisor, one of my closest friends. He's 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: with me every step of the way, both through the 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: Contract with America and then for the four years of 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: getting Bill Clinton to signed Conservative Reform. He teaches a 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: course on campaign management at the University of Iowa and 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: has just been amazingly central to everything I've ever done politically. Joe, 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on Newts World. 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: I'm delighted to be here. 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: Ned Our new book, March the Majority, is available for 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: a pre order right now, so it's kind of exciting. 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: I found developing the book, going through the research, laying 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: out the sixteen years where we worked together trying to 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: get a major then the four years where we did 24 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: succeed in getting Clinton to sign an amazing amount of 25 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: conservative reforms that it was both exhausting, but it also 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: brought up a lot of memories. So let me start 27 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: from the standpoint of your life and the way in 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: which you got involved in politics as a small town 29 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: kid from Illinois who went to the University of Iowa 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: and then found yourself having a very active role in 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: the Iowa Republican Party. So start with how you became 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: a Republican. 33 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: So I was raised it at primarily Democratic household. I 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: had an uncle who was a Union steward. My aunt 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: was a postmaster who was appointed by Harry Truman, and 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: so everything kind of revolved around that. And I was 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: very interested in politics. We talked about current events a 38 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: lot at home, and I got very involved in watching 39 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: the Democratic National Convention in nineteen sixty and I was 40 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: a huge fan of John F. Kennedy, primarily because he 41 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: was a Catholic and I was a Catholic, and I 42 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: thought it would be great to have a Catholic president. 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: So everybody in my high school always thought that I 44 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: was a big Democrat. But as I got into debate 45 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 2: in my junior year, I was on the negative side 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: of educational grants to elementary and secondary schools to increase 47 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: the quality of education. And a lot of our research 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: work came out of Barry Goldwater's Conscious of a Conservative, 49 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: and I became a little more conservative just from having 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: read and used that book so often in debate. And 51 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: then I went to the University of Iowa, and by 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: my senior year, Molly and I were getting married three 53 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: weeks after I graduated, and so I'd signed up for 54 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: the placement service at the university. I had missed an 55 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: interview with Hallmark Cards in Kansas City, and that was 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: the cardinal sin of the placement service, and Helen Barnes, 57 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: who was the director of the service, gave me a 58 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: call and just read me out over the phone about 59 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: how I had ruined another student's opportunity, wasted Hallmark's time, 60 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 2: and not to mention that I didn't get an opportunity myself. 61 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: She called me a week later and said you better 62 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 2: come in and talk to me about this, and we 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: had our meeting, and then a little after that she 64 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: called again and said, you know, are you a Republican 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: and I said, well, would it help and she said, well, 66 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: I hope so, because I've sent all of your materials 67 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: off to the Iowa Republican Party and they want to 68 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: talk to you. So long story short, Dick Redman, who 69 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 2: is the executive director of the Republican Party, called me. 70 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: We set up a meeting in the Iowa Memorial Union. 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 2: We talked for an hour. It was unlike any other 72 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: meeting I'd ever had, and he asked me to come 73 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: to Des Moines for further interviews. I did that, passed 74 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: the interview test, and got hired as a field director 75 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: for the Iowa Republican Party in nineteen sixty seven and 76 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: started work two weeks after Molly and I were married 77 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: on July first, and it became a great career. I 78 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: was in Iowa for eight years, did everything from sweeping 79 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: out the headquarters to running the multigraph machine, to learning 80 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: how to send out materials for county fairs and all 81 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 2: of that sort of stuff, and then got heavily involved 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: in organizational politics in the seventy two campaign with the 83 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: Committee to re elect the President. It was the first 84 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: year for eighteen year olds and nineteen year olds and 85 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: twenty year olds to get the right to vote, and 86 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: so we did a massive registration and drive that I 87 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: was in charge of and turned out to be one 88 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: of the most successful programs in the country. And after 89 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: that I was often running. 90 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, the governor at one point said 91 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: to you, you've learned so much from most you should 92 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: be paying us. 93 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: Well, he actually said in my interview. Bob Ray was 94 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: the state chairman at the time that I was hired, 95 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: and he said, you know so little about politics, you 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 2: should be paying us for this job instead of us 97 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: paying you. But I learned rapidly. 98 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: Luckily it all work out, and then one of those 99 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: accidents of fate, the State chair got to be the 100 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: national chair and you ended up going to Washington to 101 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: head up the Republican National Committee's local election campaign division. 102 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: Was that a surprise to. 103 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: You, Well, there are a couple of things along the way. Actually, 104 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: it was our National committeewoman Mary Louise Smith, who became 105 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: the chairman of the Republican National Committee, the first woman 106 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: to be chair was appointed to that job in nineteen 107 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: seventy four. Following the seventy four election, I was invited 108 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: to go to Washington, and I accepted the position. Molly 109 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: and I decided that we would pull up stakes in 110 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: Des Moines and move to the DC area, and I 111 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: started out doing outreach to voters and special voter groups 112 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: from African Americans, to Hispanics, to senior citizens, to women, 113 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: and to young people. That lasted about a year, and 114 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: then I ended up teaching and directing the Republican Campaign 115 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 2: Management College for campaign managers for congressional, gubernatorial, and US 116 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: Senate candidates nationwide. And I did that for sixteen consecutive weeks, 117 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: and then ran the Voter Turnout Program, the training program 118 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 2: for our six hundred and twenty some paid phone bak 119 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: operators in the country for the seventy six presidential election. 120 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: And then Mary Louise did not run for reelection and 121 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: Bill Brock was elected, and I became the director of 122 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: the Local Election Campaign Division, which really revolutionized and changed 123 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: campaigns at the legislative level. By my estimation, we did 124 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: seminars that trained upwards of sixty thousand people, and we 125 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: added many new brinkles into state legislative races, including giving 126 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: National Committee money to candidates that running for local office. 127 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: The first candidate we ever gave to was Mitch McConnell 128 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: in Kentucky when he was running for Jefferson County Judge 129 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: in Louisville, and we gave him a ten thousand dollars 130 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: contribution in nineteen seventy seven, which was the biggest contribution 131 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: the National Committee had ever made to a local election candidate. 132 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: And so over the course of the four years of 133 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,119 Speaker 2: running the local election division. Number One, when you're running 134 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: in legislative races, you learn a lot about the country 135 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: and a lot about what's going on in each state. Secondarily, 136 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: we doubled the number of legislative chambers that we controlled. 137 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: We elected more than seven hundred new state legislators. And 138 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: part of the both seventy eight election success and the 139 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty election success, I mean really really made an 140 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: enormous difference for Republicans at the local level. 141 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: You were sort of picking up a nationwide local government, 142 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: local politics level of knowledge that was pretty remarkable. When 143 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: you then took it over to the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee, 144 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: you had a base of knowledge that was probably deeper 145 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: than any executive director to overhead. 146 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's probably true. Having had my dear 147 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: wife Molly, who was involved locally in politics in Iowa 148 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: and was running and doing precinct caucuses back in those days, 149 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: and then spent time at the Republican National Committee being 150 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 2: very involved in both training and then in building the 151 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 2: nationwide voter registration systems, and me working with thousands, literally 152 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: thousands of state legislative candidates across the country and the 153 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: staff that put that together. Provides you with a remarkable 154 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: knowledge of the flow of the country and what goes 155 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: on politically and how each state is frankly very different 156 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: from other states in terms of elections, at least it 157 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: was back then. 158 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: Well, I suspect it still is that underneath it, you know, 159 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: running in Orange County, California is not the same as 160 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: running in Des Moines or running in New York City 161 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: that were remarkably complicated country. 162 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: That's really true, That really is true. 163 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: Because McConnell's playing such a big role this week and 164 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: such a I think remarkably helpful role for the House 165 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: in deliberately stepping back and then making McCarthy the new 166 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: speaker sort of the centerpiece of negotiating that was forty 167 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: five years ago that you helped him win. That, Yes, 168 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: I mean, people don't sometimes understand that there's kind of 169 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,599 Speaker 1: an ecosystem and an organic process, and you can't necessarily 170 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: know which person you're helping is going to go on, 171 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: but you do know that if you help enough people, 172 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: good things start to happen. 173 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 2: That's true. There are great stories from the local Election 174 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: campaign division. They're talking about how things are so different 175 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: in different states. But we did in Vermont, for example, 176 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty dollars contributions to member candidates who 177 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: were running for the state House, and at the end 178 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 2: of the election, one candidate who was elected sent us 179 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: back change from the two hundred and fifty dollars contribution 180 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: that we made because he didn't spend at all. 181 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: Well, Vermont was a more frugal place to run than 182 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: some calases. 183 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, much more frugal. Yes. 184 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: So you then move from the rnc's local Election Division, 185 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: you go over and start to work for the Congressional 186 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: Campaign Committee. 187 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 2: That was a huge change because you had all of 188 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: your bosses right across the street. First, I was campaign 189 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: director and we had obviously, as you all remember, we 190 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: had a very tough nineteen eighty two campaign with the 191 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 2: economic unemployment number being about ten point eight percent just 192 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 2: before election day. Many Republican incumbents collapsed at that time 193 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 2: and we lost twenty six seats in that election. Afterwards, 194 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: Nancy Sinnet Dwight, who was the executive director, left the 195 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 2: committee and I went to Congressman Vander Jack and said, 196 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: I would really like to be executive director now. And 197 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: he said to me, I know you're qualified to be 198 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: executive director, but you really have to do one thing 199 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: for me that's very important. I said, what's that? And 200 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: he said, you need to get to know Newt Gingridge. 201 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: He said, I just can't deal with him every day, 202 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 2: and so you need to do that for me. I said, well, 203 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: i'd be glad to did that. I want the job. 204 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: It would be great. So that's what it started. New 205 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: Did that. 206 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: Turn out to be a little more complicated than you expected? 207 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, that you're a little more complicated than I thought. 208 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: March The Majority will come out on June sixth and 209 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: is available for pre order now. But what struck me 210 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: when we were writing it is how relevant it is today. 211 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: It's really more like a cookbook or a roadmap for 212 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: how to both create a majority and how to use 213 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: that majority to get a democratic president. To sign conservative reforms. 214 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: But Joe, what was your sense of its relevance to today? 215 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's really important today because it provides 216 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: again our roadmap for how you get things done and 217 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: how you can get reforms through Congress at how you 218 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: win elections, because you can't do anything if you don't 219 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: win elections. So I think it's important for those two reasons. 220 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: Then I felt that it really did provide a whole 221 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: set of principled ways for people to think, and that 222 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: if they do that, they're going to be dramatically more 223 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: effective again in the Reagan tradition. So I just wan'tmind 224 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: everyone that March the Majority will come out on June sixth, 225 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: and it is available for pre order now. In a 226 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: very real sense, our partnership began in eighty three. 227 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: It did in January of nineteen eighty three. You came 228 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 2: over to see me and you had a list of 229 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: ten things that you wanted from the committee, and I thought, 230 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,079 Speaker 2: you know, I think I'll probably do all these things. 231 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 1: I've always told people that vander Jack backed me when 232 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: I had lost twice, and without his backing, I might 233 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: not have won. So I won the congressional seat with 234 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: his support. He then backed me inside the House with 235 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: the Campaign Committee. As a freshman, I was made chairman 236 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: of a brand new committee we invented on long range 237 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: planning to get to be a majority, and that gave 238 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: me access to resources, and it gave me legitimacy to 239 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: work with Bill Brock, who was the Republican National Committee Chair, 240 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: and to work with the Reagan campaign. So all of 241 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: those years from seventy eight to ninety four, Vanderjak just 242 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: kept being supportive in ways that you couldn't quite imagine. 243 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: That is true, and I think in your nineteen seventy 244 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: eight election, I have been told that the House leadership, 245 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: or particularly Bob Michael, did not want you to be 246 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: supported by the Congressional Committee, and Guy defied the leadership 247 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: and provided resources and assistance to your seventy eight campaign 248 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: as well. 249 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know whether it was because I 250 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: had lost twice and they thought that was just investing 251 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: in a loser, or whether it was because I clearly 252 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: had so many ideas and was so committed to dramatic 253 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: change that it made the leadership kind of feel so 254 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. 255 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of both things. 256 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: We should be clear with our listeners that when you 257 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: did step down from the committee and created your own 258 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: consulting firm, I asked you to take me on as 259 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: a client. And it turned out by then that I 260 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: had spent so much time and energy nationally and had 261 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: been so polarizing because I was such an aggressive partisan 262 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: Republican that I really needed you to focus on my district. 263 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: It's conceivable that I could have lost in ninety or 264 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: ninety two, in which case I think we might not 265 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: have ever quite gotten around to a majority. 266 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: I think that's probably true. Those are both very tough elections. 267 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: At the nine hundred plus votes that we won by 268 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety and then the nine hundred plus votes 269 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: that we won the primary with in nineteen ninety two 270 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: were pretty closely called elections. 271 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Atlanta Constitution figured out who I was. 272 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: Wasn't this something like twenty three days in a row 273 00:15:59,320 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: they attacked me? 274 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty three days in June before the nineteen ninety 275 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: two primary in Georgia, they either ran front page stories, editorials, 276 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: or cartoons that were all negative about you. And you know, 277 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: there was a huge outside effort to defeat you in 278 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two in the new district in East Cobbon 279 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: North Fulton. The Democratic National Committee woman had a press 280 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 2: conference and said, this is the only way that we 281 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: can defeat Knut Gingrich is to vote for and support 282 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: his Republican primary opponent. And every major labor union maxed 283 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: out support to our Republican primary opponent, and every Democratic 284 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: activist got involved in the race, and there was a 285 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: huge campaign effort on their side to do what they 286 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: called the boot Newt campaign. And it was tough. It 287 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: was a tough primary. 288 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: I remember election night, primary election night, sitting there and 289 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: we were doing fine in the Republican precincts, and then 290 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: the Democratic precincts started coming in in a Republican primary, 291 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: and we were getting killed. 292 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: That is true. You turned to me, you said, so, 293 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 2: how are we doing vote goal wise? And I said, 294 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: we threw out vote goals an hour ago because there's 295 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: so many more people that have voted in this primary 296 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: than we ever thought were going to vote in it. 297 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: It was an amazing night, and thank God for North Fulton. 298 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: Both times it came down late at night. I remember, 299 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: I think it was in the ninety off your election 300 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: that we were actually. 301 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 2: Behind until Fayette County came in and. 302 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: Randy Evans campaign. Chaman kept saying, there are three precincts 303 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: in Fayette County that will come in at the end. 304 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: They are all big, they're all for you, and you 305 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: will end up winning. And my brand new son in law, 306 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: Paul Hubberts, was sitting there about two in the morning 307 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: and he said, aren't election night's kind of supposed to 308 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: be fun? I said, well, we'll be in a little bit. 309 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: We looked grim enough that people kept calling me from 310 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: all over the country saying are you okay? And Connie Mack, 311 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: who is running for the Senate, was way behind, but 312 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: had figured out that between absentee ballots and military ballots 313 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,239 Speaker 1: that he would make up something like one hundred and 314 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: twenty thousand vote margin, which he did, but it took a. 315 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: Week, right, and I think he won in Florida by 316 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: about twenty thousand votes that year. 317 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: It was a wild run. But then having finally won, 318 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: I think what people need to realize is that all 319 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: this time, of course, you have to run every two 320 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: years to get re elected in the House. And I 321 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: was pouring almost all of my energy into creating a majority. 322 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: I really wasn't focused as much on being reelected as 323 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: I should have been. But on the other hand, if 324 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: I had focused that much, we wouldn't have gotten a majority. 325 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 2: True, That's why it took both of us. I think 326 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: that's right. 327 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: I've always said that we were the inside and outside 328 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: part of this effort because I could focus on the 329 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: house itself, and I could focus on sort of recruiting 330 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: an issue building, but I couldn't focus on all of 331 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: the various things that had to be happening, for example. 332 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: But it's peak go Pack, which Peepe DuPont had given 333 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: me when he decided to run for president, and go 334 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: Pack had originally been just a sendout checks to local 335 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: election people, and we decided that ideas mattered more than 336 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: the money. And at its peak we had like fifty 337 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: five thousand people getting a go pack tape every month. 338 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: And all of that fit into the degree to which 339 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: you had become the number one trainer in the Republican 340 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: Party and understood the importance of teaching people and created 341 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: the campaign Academy, et cetera. How many people would you 342 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: guess you taught during the process of trying to create 343 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: a majority. 344 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 2: Oh, probably somewhere around seventy or eighty thousand. 345 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: People I think often don't realize it. Election I was 346 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: really exciting, but there were years of growing this party, 347 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: which when we started getting involved in this, I realized 348 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: I think an eight when we had a special election 349 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: in Texas that we lost by a narrow margin, and 350 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: I was very upset that we'd lost it. And you 351 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: sent the guys over who had been in charge to 352 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: brief me, and after about two hours, I realized, you know, 353 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: you had fourteen counties with no elected Republicans. You had 354 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: the governor leaving seven thousand state employees to spake the 355 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: day off to work. You had unions coming in from 356 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: as far away as New Jersey, and it hit me 357 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: that we were essentially a mid sized college team trying 358 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: to play in the Super Bowl. We just weren't big 359 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: enough to be a majority. And from that point on, 360 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: you and I were involved constantly in trying to figure 361 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: out how do we grow a party big enough and 362 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 1: have issues strong enough that we could actually defeat what 363 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: was the dominant party in the country, which was the Democrats. 364 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: That's really true, and you know, part of that education 365 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 2: process was with helping Republicans realize that we're involved in 366 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: the party and candidates who were running for office that 367 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: we actually represented majoritarian opinion in the country, but had 368 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: been in the minority for so long that we acted 369 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: like minority candidates and people and candidates act differently when 370 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: they understand that the group that they're talking to actually 371 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: agrees with them. We spent an enormous amount of time 372 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 2: at GOPAK trying to get people to understand that we 373 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 2: represented majoritarian thought in America and building that internally was 374 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 2: one of the keys to being successful. And in addition 375 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: to that, we've also taught that we had to be 376 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: a party that made sense, the created news, that was creative. 377 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 2: In the work that we'd done, that our consultants, in 378 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: our campaign staffs and campaigns become more creative in a 379 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: way that attracted the amount of attention that challenger candidates 380 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: needed to attract. And that was certainly true in the 381 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four campaign. 382 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: I always felt like we were standing on Reagan's shoulders. Reagan, 383 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: as an FDR Democrat who as late as nineteen forty 384 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: eight had done commercials for Harry Truman and for Hubert Humphrey, 385 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: really came out of this background as a movie actor. 386 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: He was comfortable that he had an audience, he was 387 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: comfortable that actually his values were the values of the 388 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: American people, and that made him very different than the 389 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: anti Roosevelt Republicans. I think we're still on the same 390 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: struggle between people who believe that we represent the natural 391 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: majority that favors the Constitution and the Pledge of Allegiance 392 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: and so forth, and those who think that we somehow 393 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: have to fake it because we're actually not a majority. 394 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: And I think that those two approaches are so dramatically different, 395 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,959 Speaker 1: and our success in creating we are the Majority tapes 396 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: and getting people a lot of people in John Bahner 397 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: as a candidate who would eventually become Speaker, the governor 398 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: of New York at that time, who as an assembly 399 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: member ran around the state listening to go pack tapes. 400 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: The number of people who would say that these tapes 401 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: enabled them to feel that they could comfortably debate and 402 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: run in a way that was really very, very different. 403 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 2: There's no question about that. We heard all through the 404 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: ninety two and the ninety four campaign about the impact 405 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: of the audio tapes of candidates who would listen to 406 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: them while they were in their cars before they were 407 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: doing debates or before they were doing public appearances. That 408 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: gave them both courage and stamina and excitement and enthusiasm 409 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: about getting out there and actually speaking and being a leader. 410 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: They were terrific and helpful at the time, and they 411 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: certainly were new in approach, and they certainly hit candidates 412 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: where they were, which is in their cars most of 413 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 2: the time driving to events out across America. 414 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: I have to say, just so people understand how really 415 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: thoroughly you understood the country that one of my favorite 416 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: stories is on September seventeenth, nineteen ninety four, we're leaving 417 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: on private plane to do a swing through five or 418 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: six states to raise money for candidates. And Dan Meyer, 419 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: who was my chief of staff and is now Kevin 420 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: McCarthy's chief of staff, I think the only person to 421 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: serve as chief of staff to two different speakers. Anyway, 422 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: Myer's on the plane along with Steve Hanser and Carrie 423 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: not who at that time was Dick Army's chief of staff. 424 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,479 Speaker 1: And I said we were going to do planning on 425 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: the plane in between stops to raise money. Literally we 426 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: were still the National Bets take off, and I said, 427 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: so are we planning for speaker or for minority leader, 428 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: and you said, well, you'd better be planning for speaker 429 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: because you're going to be the majority And Meyer looked 430 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: up and said, wait a second, you need to really 431 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: explain this. And you literally from memory, started in Maine 432 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: and went to Hawaii and said we'd pick up fifty 433 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: two seats. You picked up fifty three. The only seat 434 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: you missed was Rostankowski in downtown Chicago, and I thought 435 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: it was one of the most remarkable examples of mastering 436 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: the business you were in that I'd ever seen. 437 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much for that. The other thing 438 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 2: that people really need to understand about the ninety four 439 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: campaign is that we were badly outspent by the Democrats. 440 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: They had lots of money and we were not in 441 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: that position. But we had candidates everywhere, which was really important, 442 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: and they were very eager and learned very well, and 443 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: also they were provided with data and information that strengthened 444 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: their candidacies. And I'd gotten to know many of them 445 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 2: over the course of the year. I knew about their campaigns, 446 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: I knew what they were doing, I knew what they 447 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: were trying for, and you could see where there was 448 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 2: an opportunity to win in districts that were not usually 449 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: Republican districts. And so from going from the story in 450 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 2: Maine where a candidate ran totally on the deficit all 451 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 2: the way to Oakridge, Tennessee, to the changes that were 452 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 2: rapidly occurring in the South where we actually became the 453 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: majority in the South in the ninety four campaign, to 454 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: defeating two committee chairmen and defeating the Speaker of the House, 455 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 2: I mean in Washington State, where you had a massive 456 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: pickup of six seats, was really remarkable. But the amount 457 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 2: of districts that you had been to, or I had 458 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 2: been to, or we had trained either candidates or campaign 459 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 2: staff in made and understanding the way the country works 460 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: and how America votes really made that possible for me. 461 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: What an election night feel like to you in ninety four. 462 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 2: Well, at the start of the night, I was really 463 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 2: nervous that I had been so confident that we were 464 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 2: going to win that it might not happen. And we 465 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 2: were all in the Cobb Gallery and there was like 466 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: a war room there, and I just said, until we 467 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 2: get to the two hundred and eighteen seats, we're not 468 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 2: going to announce anything. Even though it looked right. We 469 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: had to have two hundred and eighteen seats called to 470 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 2: say that we had won, and I was anxious and 471 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: I was excited and elated all at the time, all 472 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: in the same evening. So and it was terrific. It 473 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 2: was the culmination of a career for me back when 474 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 2: I was in Iowa and as executive director, I said, 475 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 2: you know, someday I want to run one of these 476 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 2: national party committees, and it got to be the NRCC, 477 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 2: and then it was someday, I want to see a 478 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 2: majority and I want to see the Democrats defeated, and 479 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: that finally happened. And so it was in many ways 480 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 2: the culmination of a life's work for me. 481 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: Since we were being outspent and we were running a 482 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: lot of candidates who were really first time candidates, they 483 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: were learning the trade while they were doing it. How 484 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: big a role do you think that the contract and 485 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: the issues in the contract played in giving us the 486 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,479 Speaker 1: sort of extra margin that let us win despite the 487 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: Democrats being able to outspend us. 488 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 2: It was huge, And I will say this in this regard. 489 00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: The ten planks of the contract gave our candidates positive 490 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: things to say in their debates. It gave them courage, 491 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 2: it gave them strength, and they got to say to 492 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: their Democratic opponents, you have been running this House for 493 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 2: so long and you have nothing to show for it 494 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: right now, and this is what we're going to do 495 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: if we get elected. And that kind of positivity about 496 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 2: what would be done if in fact, people voted Republican 497 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: for Congress really helped in building the majority in nineteen 498 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 2: ninety four. 499 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: March The Majority will come out on June sixth and 500 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: is available for pre order now. But what struck me 501 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: when we were writing it is how relevant it is today. 502 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: It's really more like a cookbook or a roadmap for 503 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: how to both create a majority and how to use 504 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: that majority to get a democratic president to say sign 505 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: conservative reforms. But Joe, what was your sense of its 506 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: relevance to today? 507 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's really important today because it provides 508 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: again our roadmap for how you get things done and 509 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: how you can get reforms through Congress and how you 510 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: win elections, because you can't do anything if you don't 511 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 2: win elections. So I think it's important for those two reasons. 512 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: And I felt that it really did provide a whole 513 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: set of principled ways for people to think, and that 514 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: if they do that, they're going to be dramatically more 515 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: effective again in the Reagan tradition. So I just want 516 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: to remind everyone that March the Majority will come out 517 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: on June sixth, and it is available for pre order. Now, 518 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, one of the things I've struck with has 519 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: we wrote March to the Majority together, which both covers 520 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: winning a majority and then covers the four years where 521 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: we convince Bill Clinton over and over again to sign 522 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: conservative reforms, was that, in fact, it was a very 523 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: principal approach, and it was based on having thought through 524 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: what it would take, and in you, in that process 525 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: had developed six keys to building a majority. I think 526 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: all of them are totally relevant today, and if the 527 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: House and center Republicans and the Republican presidential candidate understand them, 528 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: we will be much more likely to win a decisive 529 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: election than twenty four. Could you just walk through briefly 530 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: the six keys, right? 531 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 2: Sure? The first was know what you are for, what 532 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 2: it is that you are going to do, so what 533 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: you're going to talk about in the campaign, And we 534 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: developed back in the nineteen ninety four campaign the theory 535 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: that seventy five percent of what we should do or 536 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: sixty five to seventy five percent of what we should 537 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: do and talk about needed to be positive, and then 538 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: part of it needed to be negative. So this knowing 539 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: what you are for was really important. And then the 540 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: second thing was recruiting candidates everywhere and training them in 541 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: how to utilize the information that was available to them 542 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 2: when they were trying to persuade voters to vote for them, 543 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: and recognizing that there are different techniques that are used 544 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 2: to incite your base in an election, and also to 545 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 2: reach across and reach independent voters because they hear things differently, 546 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: and so that combination of recruiting and training was very important. 547 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 2: Understanding the principles of communication was the third, and figuring 548 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 2: out how to do that over, under, and around the 549 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: national media was very important. And looking at segments of 550 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: the election that you could reach and get to differently 551 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: than through the local or national media were important. And 552 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 2: fourth was building an army of people with you, building 553 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 2: coalitions and the strength that coalitions bring, particularly in local 554 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,479 Speaker 2: and national endorsements, as well as recruiting volunteers and raising 555 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: money for campaigns. And then finally, it's important to remember 556 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: that you had to contrast yourself with opponents. We didn't 557 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: say fight, We just said you need to create a 558 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: controversy in the campaign that shows that you are different 559 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: from what's already there and who's already there, to demonstrate 560 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 2: to the electorate that you, in fact, not only can 561 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 2: do this job, but what it is that you are 562 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 2: about to do is going to be important for them, 563 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: and that the other side has failed. 564 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing. I look back on it, and 565 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: I was really reinforced when we did the research and 566 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: looked at all of our material from that era. This 567 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: was a very purposeful project. I always remind people we 568 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: failed in eighty eighty two, eighty four, eighty six, eighty eight, 569 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: ninety ninety two, but we kept learning and we kept 570 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: growing and it wasn't an accident. And I think that 571 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: the principles that are in March for the Majority actually 572 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: can be applied today by the House and Senate Republicans, 573 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: can be applied at the state legislative level, and go 574 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: owners level, can be applied by presidential candadis. I think 575 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: they're sort of universal principles of how in a free 576 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: society you bring people together in order to win decisively. 577 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: You both were a key part in understanding that and 578 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: a key part in implementing it, which I would say 579 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: to everybody was far harder. I think it was literally 580 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: inconceivable that I could have ever grown a majority without 581 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: your help. And I think there was the two of 582 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: us working together as sort of a synergistic team that 583 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: enabled us over time to both invent the principles and 584 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: apply them with enough energy that we gradually carried an 585 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: entire party and ultimately carried a country with us. 586 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 2: That's true. Again, I thank you for that, for having 587 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 2: the opportunity to be involved in campaigns over the years, 588 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 2: and to be involved in the one that significantly changed 589 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 2: America and changed politics in America. Before the nineteen ninety 590 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 2: four election, it's important to remin remember that nobody in 591 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 2: the country ever thought the Republicans would be in the 592 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 2: majority in the House of Representatives. Again, it was just 593 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 2: a given that Democrats would always control the House. And 594 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: we learned so much in the process. We did so 595 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 2: much in the process as I was doing the research 596 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 2: and looking at my notes and things that had gone 597 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 2: on in elections and what we had done. In many cases, 598 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: we had outspent Democrats, but that didn't work, and in 599 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 2: many cases we had left seats vacant because we thought 600 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: we wouldn't put up candidates against Democratic incumbents who would 601 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 2: just be beaten badly, because it would only encourage the 602 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 2: other side. I mean, we tried all kinds of things 603 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 2: during the course of that process, but when we finally 604 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 2: ended up in nineteen ninety four successfully, we had in 605 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: fact done the six things that I just mentioned, and 606 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 2: it really requires all six. 607 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: And I think by having done it people, as you said, 608 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: I think as late as election day most Republicans didn't 609 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: think it was possible. But once we proved it was possible, 610 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: we kept from ninety four to two thousand and six, 611 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: and when we lost in two thousand and six, there 612 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: were enough members who now knew they could be in 613 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: a majority that four years later they came back as 614 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: a majority, and they kept the majority from twenty ten 615 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: to twenty eighteen, and instantly Kevin McCarthy knew that it 616 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: was possible to be a majority. And you contrast that 617 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: with the Republican leaders who basically from nineteen fifty four 618 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: on grew increasingly pessimistic and increasingly demoralized, and once you 619 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: understand it's possible. It's just amazing how it changes the 620 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: energy level and the donations and candidates, I mean, candidates 621 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: who are being told, well, why don't you run, You'll 622 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: be in the minority, but after all, you'll be serving 623 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: the country have a different vision of the future than 624 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: candidates are told eight. We can be majority, you can 625 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: be a chairman, we can get things done, and so 626 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: you just dramatically improve your candidacy. I hope people who 627 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: listen to this decide to get march to the majority. 628 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: And I hope they realize that what Joe and I 629 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: did was set a baseline, which I think it was 630 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: a genuine historic change in the structure of power in Washington, 631 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: and we need one more surge of the same kind 632 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: of change in order to truly get the country on 633 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: the right track. And hopefully both this podcast and our 634 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: book will give people the ideas and the information and 635 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: the systems to enable them to do it. So I 636 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: want to thank you for joining me on Newtsworld, Joe, 637 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: and we will continue to work together, all right. Thanks 638 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: thank you to my guest and good friend Joe Gaylord. 639 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: You can get a link to order our new book 640 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: March to the majority on our show page at newtsworld 641 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gaingrish three sixty and iHeartMedia. 642 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researchers Rachel Peterson. 643 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,280 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 644 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at gingridh three sixty. If 645 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: you've been a new World, I hope you'll go to 646 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and 647 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: give us a review so others can learn what it's 648 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: all about. Right now, listeners of newts World can sign 649 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: up from my three freeweekly columns at gingrichtree sixty dot 650 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.