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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Hello, welcome to another episode of Cadaver Gals,

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Speaker 1: where we talk about the ways people have died throughout

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Speaker 1: history to cope with our own mortality. Yes, I'm your host, Nika,

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Speaker 1: along with Gabby Hello, and Taylor. Hey. Cute, cute, cute cute.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, this is us. We are here. It's exciting.

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Speaker 1: I'm slathering myself on vassoline. That will make sense later

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Speaker 1: and today's show, we're going to talk about how public

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Speaker 1: executions were the place to be in the eighteenth century,

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Speaker 1: the hot happening, you know, like the clubs of today

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Speaker 1: or whatever the kids are doing, and why hanging around

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Speaker 1: toxic people can sometimes be deadly literally. Today's content warnings

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Speaker 1: include executions, alternative medicine, cadavers, terminal illness, hangings, and dead

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Speaker 1: things Yes, lots of dead things over here include We're motivation,

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Speaker 1: all right? Queue the alligator music our goal. Let's get

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Speaker 1: into it. Let's do it. Wonderful music over there. I

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Speaker 1: love it. Um, Taylor, I hear you have a fascinating

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Speaker 1: story about toxicity, you know, toxic people. Yes, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to take you on quite the wild ride. Are you ready? Oh? Yes,

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Speaker 1: in put me on the roller. Coaster. Gabby. Oh wait,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm on the roller coaster too. Yeah, she decided

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Speaker 1: to get on. Okay, so we're going to nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: four Gloria Ramirez. She was thirty one and sadly she

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Speaker 1: was suffering from advanced stages of cervical cancer. She was

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Speaker 1: going downhill pretty quick, and six weeks later she finds

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Speaker 1: herself in the hospital for kidney failures. She was like

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Speaker 1: struggling to breathe. Blood pressure was dropped weeks later from

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Speaker 1: what after being diagnosed with cervical campers. Oh gosh, that's quick.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very quick. So her blood pressure was plummeting

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Speaker 1: and struggling to breathe. She was disoriented. So as the

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Speaker 1: doctors do, they begin poking and prodding the drugs. They

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Speaker 1: do everything to try and help her to get her

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Speaker 1: vitals back to normal, but nothing was working. Her heart

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Speaker 1: was failing for some reason they don't really know. So

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Speaker 1: they decide it's time for the little shocky shock. And

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Speaker 1: so as they prepare her the little shocky shock. Yeah

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Speaker 1: heard hard heard okay, but as I like to call it,

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Speaker 1: the little shocky shock, So they noticed, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: just sounds like a it's like a Wes Anderson movie

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Speaker 1: hospital where it's like they're poking and prodding and then

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Speaker 1: they're doing the shocky shot. Absolutely, that's exactly. No, that's exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's also flogs that are doing it. Okay, m so um.

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Speaker 1: They noticed two things as they're preparing her. One her

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Speaker 1: skin is kind of oily, and the other that her

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Speaker 1: breath smells fruity and garlicy, which is strange. That's like

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Speaker 1: weirdly an oxymoron to me. Yeah, garlic is not favorite? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh is garlic your favorite? Yeah? I just like to

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Speaker 1: get like a bowl of garlic and just you know,

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Speaker 1: like berries, throw it back. Okay, I actually gold garlic,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you can or is that what it is? Like?

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Speaker 1: There's kinds of garlic, like the cloves. Apparently raw garlic

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Speaker 1: is actually really good for you. And I have PTSD

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Speaker 1: from doing that because I did that once first thing

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Speaker 1: in the morning, hadn't even drink water. I had three

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Speaker 1: cloves of raw garlic, and truly, my vision blurred, my

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Speaker 1: body started shaking. I almost passed out. I had to

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Speaker 1: hold onto the counter to like stop from falling over.

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Speaker 1: It's very intense, but apparently it's really good for it

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Speaker 1: sounds yeah, that sounds really good for you. Just no,

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Speaker 1: but just don't do it like the way I like

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Speaker 1: dumb bitch did right, like do it with other things.

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Speaker 1: Don't just do it, you know, like a shot of

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Speaker 1: tequila straight in the morning. Like that's not good. Okay, anyway,

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Speaker 1: so let's continue. Her breath smells like garlic and fruity,

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Speaker 1: which is strange, but um, I guess they proceed and

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Speaker 1: it helps. They didn't really specify what would like her

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Speaker 1: condition because shit got really weird really fast. So after

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Speaker 1: the shocky shock, yes that they did the shocky shock.

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Speaker 1: They did the shocky shock, and but like she just

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Speaker 1: started getting so weird that they just like like all

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Speaker 1: of the articles I read just like skipped over, like

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Speaker 1: if that worked. But she was still alive at this point,

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Speaker 1: so I assumed it did. Something that's very opposite to

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Speaker 1: like the cryogenic frozen situation where they told us every

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Speaker 1: single detail. I know, right, they should learn they could

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Speaker 1: learn something from them. So anyway, they're like, okay, like

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Speaker 1: all these other treatments aren't really working, so that's weird.

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Speaker 1: So let's take a blood sample to see if there's

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Speaker 1: something else that might be causing her to not react

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Speaker 1: to the treatments. So one of the nurses does her thing,

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Speaker 1: gets the sample and is suddenly like overwhelmed by a

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Speaker 1: chemically smell. So she's like, ah, my syringe is doing

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Speaker 1: weird things. It smells weird, So she gives that to

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Speaker 1: the other nurse and then she goes down to smell

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Speaker 1: the patient to see like if it's emitting from her,

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Speaker 1: if it's the syrenge, like trying to find the source.

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Speaker 1: It's like an ammonious smell, which they assumed they would have,

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Speaker 1: that it would have some sort of smell from like

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Speaker 1: the chemo, because she had been on chemo, but it

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Speaker 1: was more like ammonia and that's not what your blood

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Speaker 1: smells like when on chemo, so they were like, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of strange. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: one of the nurses fates. She hits the floor, her

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Speaker 1: face starts burning, and she quickly becomes a patient at

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Speaker 1: the hospital. So oh no, Yeah, So other people are

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Speaker 1: inspecting the syringe and they noticed these like yellowish particles

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Speaker 1: floating around in there, and they're like, yeah, that smells

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Speaker 1: like ammonia. That's strange. So they're just like smelling the syringe. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just I guess it's just like a bizarre smell

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Speaker 1: like all this they just like it was like an

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Speaker 1: overwhelming smell. They were like in the garlic and the fruit,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, her body was oily, and then

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Speaker 1: they were getting this like ammonia smell and they were

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Speaker 1: just like overwhelmed by all of these senses. This is

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Speaker 1: how I know like I could never work in the

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Speaker 1: hospital because the idea of looking at a syringe full

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Speaker 1: of blood and seeing what was it particles inside of

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Speaker 1: it that makes me want to throw up. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were like these little yellowy which I get the narticles

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Speaker 1: floating around. The nurses did so they did throw up.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you would have been one of the fainting nurses.

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Speaker 1: Well it's my favorite punk band. Maybe they're still help me.

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Speaker 1: We will. We will get there, don't you worry. So

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Speaker 1: then a second hospital worker, I think it was a resident,

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Speaker 1: gets lightheaded and has to be removed from the room.

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Speaker 1: She then passes out and she's like like her breathing

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Speaker 1: like she's like on and off with her breathing, like

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Speaker 1: she kind of like stops reathing. She gets like apnea,

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Speaker 1: which you know we know that from like sleep apnea,

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Speaker 1: but apparently that can happen when you're awake as well.

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Speaker 1: I guess waking at nia, yes, And she becomes the

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Speaker 1: second patient of this mysterious illness dealing with Gloria. So

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Speaker 1: the second woman wakes up and she's kind of like spasming,

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Speaker 1: she has like no control of extremities. And then a

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Speaker 1: third person drops. Oh no, So they're like, what is happening?

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Speaker 1: All of these people dealing with Gloria, like helping her,

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Speaker 1: trying to help Gloria just start getting sick and become

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Speaker 1: patience at the hospital, just dropping like mosquitoes. You know,

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Speaker 1: I wish mosquitoes. I wish they would drop me. I

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Speaker 1: wish they would too. Sorry for butchering that. So medical

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Speaker 1: detectives from all over like the state, like locally and

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Speaker 1: like all over the state are showing up to try

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Speaker 1: and figure out what is happening. And then during this time,

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Speaker 1: even more people start getting sick after treating Gloria. So

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Speaker 1: then the medical detectives are like, who are medical detectives?

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Speaker 1: Is that like a real thing? I guess it is

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Speaker 1: medical detective. I guess, Like so two people like there

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Speaker 1: was like a bunch of different situations, like medical detectives

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Speaker 1: came in and then later the hazmat team comes in.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get there. But the medical detectives are just

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out I guess it's like a weird

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Speaker 1: medical situation that they can't solve. So they are like

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Speaker 1: trying to investigate where this illness could have come from

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Speaker 1: and where all the clues. But inside your sell, medical

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Speaker 1: detectives I feel like are the lamest type of detective. Lovingly,

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Speaker 1: they're probably like the smartest. Why because they're the smartest

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're not lame, Taylor, I'm even fair enough.

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Speaker 1: All these people are getting sick, and they're like, all right, guys,

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Speaker 1: like something's up. We got to evacuate the er, so

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Speaker 1: patience and like hospital workers, every woman has moved to

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Speaker 1: the parking lot. Only a few stayed behind to treat Gloria,

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Speaker 1: but she that evening succumbs to her bizarre illness. The

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Speaker 1: isolate her body head back to the parking lot to

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Speaker 1: tend to the rest of the people that need help.

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Speaker 1: So in the parking lot, they were determining that it

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Speaker 1: was kind of like a chemical situation. They're like, this

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Speaker 1: feels like people are getting inhaling toxic fumes basically, and

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Speaker 1: so they were like, we don't know where it is.

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Speaker 1: So basically everybody has to strip down and everybody has

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Speaker 1: to burn their clothes in the parking In the parking lot,

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Speaker 1: there's just a bunch of people and their underwear. Yes,

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Speaker 1: sounds like burning man. I'm never bent to burning man.

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Speaker 1: So is that what happens? Everybody just gets naked and

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Speaker 1: burns their clothes. I guess that makes sense. That's what

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Speaker 1: it's called burning man. And Taylor, well, I guess they

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Speaker 1: don't burn their clothes. They just usually don't wear that

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Speaker 1: many of us. I'm gonna say, I thought they were

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Speaker 1: just like burning like some sort of like effigy type thing.

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Speaker 1: It is, they burn a lot of effigies. But they also,

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Speaker 1: you know, just being nude. But so I went there

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Speaker 1: one time, and so I was a virgin. I was

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Speaker 1: quite shocked. So did you end up going nude at

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Speaker 1: any point or you? No? Oh, look, av he's not

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Speaker 1: She's a never nude. I'm a never nude. Okay. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: So all of these people, more and more people, they

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Speaker 1: are getting sick from shortness of breath, burning sensation on

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Speaker 1: their skin, passing out. Twenty three or thirty seven people

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Speaker 1: working in the er that night got some kind of

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Speaker 1: weird symptoms. Five were hospitalized overnight and one spent ten

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Speaker 1: days in the hospital, and the worst was one patient

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Speaker 1: spent two weeks in ICU. And she like ended up

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Speaker 1: with all of these other things like pancreatitis, hepatitis, a

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Speaker 1: vascular necrosis at her knees, which necrosis is kind of

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Speaker 1: like when is like dying tissue tissues dying or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, yeah, like below her knees. So she

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Speaker 1: was she was like on crutches for months. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that woman was. She was struggling. So back to Gloria.

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Speaker 1: She didn't make it right. But everybody's just like, what

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Speaker 1: is what actually happened? Like what is going on? So

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Speaker 1: how's Matt team comes in now and they're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out, you know, what is making everybody sick. It

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Speaker 1: seems like a chemical thing. So they go through and

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Speaker 1: do all these tests. They're not finding anything really, so

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Speaker 1: then they're like, oh, all these people they're just suffering

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Speaker 1: from mass hysteria from all of the odd smells, and like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this earlier. Have you I mean,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows a nurse and they can handle anything. Like literally,

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Speaker 1: they are not phased by anything, like the grossest things.

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Speaker 1: They're just like, oh yeah, cool, like that's fine. And

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Speaker 1: so they're like pissed off because like all of these

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Speaker 1: people were getting sick and um, so like all these

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Speaker 1: lawsuits were flying around too, and you know, from getting

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Speaker 1: sick from working there or whatever. And by saying that

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Speaker 1: there was mass hysteria was just kind of a slap

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Speaker 1: in the face, like yes, So they finally they like

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Speaker 1: reverse that, like, fine, it wasn't mass hysteria. We just

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Speaker 1: didn't know what else to call it, I guess, which

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Speaker 1: like historically people have called hysteria on anything that they

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Speaker 1: don't understand, so that actually makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: So this wasn't ninety four, so yeah, you know, this

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Speaker 1: wasn't that long. Just be crazy, right. You know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: I smell a bad smell and you know, my uterus

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Speaker 1: starts floating around my body. So that's what they thought

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Speaker 1: hysteria was loose uterus is just floating around. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: in my head anyway. Okay, So Gloria was autopsied three

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Speaker 1: times and they found normal stuff like thailan al, but

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Speaker 1: also Tagna tigna, which is an anti nausea medication, which

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Speaker 1: could have been the reason for the ammonia smell. But

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Speaker 1: most significantly, there are huge levels of dimethyl so fox side.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I hate when that happened. Yeah, heck is

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Speaker 1: that tailor? So it's found? It is like can be

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Speaker 1: found in your your body like naturally, But there was

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Speaker 1: like three times what was normal in her body. And

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Speaker 1: this was from tests from an autopsy that was six

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Speaker 1: weeks post mortem, so seemingly she probably had even more

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Speaker 1: with than that inner so like, what is happening? So

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Speaker 1: after months of investigation, they determined that Gloria had doused

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Speaker 1: herself in dmso, which is that dimethyl so foxide as

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Speaker 1: a way to relieve pain from her cancer, which would

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Speaker 1: account for the mysterious oil on her skin. It also

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Speaker 1: would account for her breath smelling like fruit and garlic,

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Speaker 1: and also would account for everyone that came into contact

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Speaker 1: with her passing out and having all these other symptoms

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Speaker 1: and the floating particles in the blood. I don't know why,

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Speaker 1: but that to me is the most graphic gross. That

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Speaker 1: is a gross ye like just like I don't know, um,

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Speaker 1: so so good. That was my long convoluted story about

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Speaker 1: how Gloria was a toxic lady, and Nica is going

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Speaker 1: to talk more about what the heck DMSO is, where

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Speaker 1: it's found, and what it can do to you, yes,

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Speaker 1: and how you can buy it online for nine nine

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Speaker 1: beer back. Hello, Hello, welcome back. So let's chat about

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Speaker 1: the substance that Gloria was using. First of all, Taylor,

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Speaker 1: let's chat. Let's chat. Was it confirmed that she was

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Speaker 1: using that? So her family was like, no, she wouldn't

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Speaker 1: do that, blah blah blah. It's like known to be bad,

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Speaker 1: like not great for you, right because it's basically a

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Speaker 1: chemical that was like used back in the day. But

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Speaker 1: she was just trying, you know. So her family was

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Speaker 1: like no. But but every all the evidence pointed to

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Speaker 1: that's like the only the only reason, I wonder, why

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Speaker 1: would her family like possibly lie about that. Well, they were.

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Speaker 1: They were saying that the hospital, oh money, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were saying that, like the hospital was, you know, didn't

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Speaker 1: handle the situation properly, and it was you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean because essentially, I mean think about it, they were

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Speaker 1: everybody you know, this got out in the news and

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Speaker 1: everybody was calling her this toxic ly and that is sad,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't like their family didn't want her to

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Speaker 1: be remembered as the toxic lady, you know, so I

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Speaker 1: can understand that, you know. They were like, no, she

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Speaker 1: wasn't like she was just sick. She had advanced stages

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Speaker 1: of cervical cancer. That's not the hospital's fault that the

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Speaker 1: press called for the toxic lady, right, that's just the

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Speaker 1: way the press handled it, right, Okay, But but they

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Speaker 1: blamed the hospital. Okay, I'm just blamed the hospital. I

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Speaker 1: think it's hysteria. Everyone got it, right, Yeah, And then

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Speaker 1: the hospital was mad because they were like they're like,

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Speaker 1: we're not going crazy, Like there's an issue. There's a

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Speaker 1: chemical in the air. There's something that's making us sick.

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Speaker 1: It's not like we're not being dramatic here. Absolutely. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well that is fascinating and also really sad. I feel

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Speaker 1: bad for everyone in the story, and we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: even sadder. So, yes, Gloria was probably using demethylsul fox

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Speaker 1: side and what that is. It's basically a chemical solvent

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Speaker 1: that was discovered in Germany in the nineteenth century and

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Speaker 1: it was a byproduct of paper making. So it is

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Speaker 1: true that some of it is found in your body,

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Speaker 1: but like not nearly as much as you know what

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Speaker 1: people tend to use in order to cure themselves or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You're like tiny, tiny, exactly. And again it's a byproduct

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Speaker 1: of a papermaking process. So like, yeah, definitely ingested. I

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Speaker 1: just went down like a natural healing rabbit hole last

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Speaker 1: night while I was researching for this, and it's like

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Speaker 1: really intense and really sad. Okay, So what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's a very powerful solvent that is used for actually

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Speaker 1: funny enough cryopreservation, I know, paint thinner, anti freeze. It's

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Speaker 1: also used to produce microelectronic devices. It's a lot of

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Speaker 1: industrial uses. And then it's also used in some antifungal

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Speaker 1: medicines because basically it works very well as a transportation

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Speaker 1: device for other medicines. So, for example, antifungal medicines need

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Speaker 1: to um go into your toe nails and not just

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Speaker 1: your flesh, right, and so they use some dimethyl sulfox

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Speaker 1: side to be able to kind of pass through into

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Speaker 1: multiple layers of nail and skin and all sort of

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Speaker 1: stuff to make sure that the medicine works well. So

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Speaker 1: it's like a corvett. How on earth is it? Like?

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Speaker 1: What was because you said it's like a vehicle, you know,

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Speaker 1: so it's like a little slimy vehicle. It is a

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Speaker 1: slimy corvette going into your toe, yes, sure or whatever. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I was imagining it more like

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Speaker 1: a slip and slide where like it's like you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's like sliding through your body like boom boom boom.

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Speaker 1: You know. The slip and slide is my favorite vehicle.

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Speaker 1: That's how I get from place to place. Or a

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Speaker 1: deadly odorless chemical, you know that, But it sounds like

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00:19:00,045 --> 00:19:04,885
Speaker 1: it was odorful. Um. I think the chemical itself is odorless.

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Speaker 1: But then when you when it activates, it causes like

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Speaker 1: the garlic breath and the ammonia smell and all that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. When it reacts to your other body, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or to anything that it's touched, it's your nast body

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Speaker 1: that smells bad. Okay, yes, but yeah, so it's a

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Speaker 1: really good solvent. It's actually been reported that within five

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Speaker 1: minutes of topical application it is found in your bloodstream,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty insane. And then within an hour what

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Speaker 1: you experience is like the garlicky breath the gloria was

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Speaker 1: having and that breath lasts for six to eight hours

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Speaker 1: all from the substance. So it's a very very powerful chemical.

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Speaker 1: So it kind of it became very popular in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties. It was kind of like this miracle drug

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Speaker 1: that everyone was using, and athletes especially they used it

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Speaker 1: for soar muscles and so it was just this like

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Speaker 1: very popular pain relieving medicine. People will take it orally

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Speaker 1: or topically, and it was very easy to find, and

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Speaker 1: it was sold in concentrations of this is terrifying ninety

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Speaker 1: nine point nine percent, which is the industrial grade one

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Speaker 1: ninety percent, and fifty percent, which is all of that's

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00:20:17,325 --> 00:20:21,365
Speaker 1: a lot, I think terrifying. Yeah, exactly. It was just

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Speaker 1: this big kind of like, I don't know, snake oil

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Speaker 1: cure for everything. And then in the mid sixties, a

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Speaker 1: woman died after being treated from a sprained ankle with MSO,

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Speaker 1: so she really shouldn't have died, and even though it

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Speaker 1: was never confirmed whether DMSO was the like active you know,

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Speaker 1: cause of her death or not, that kind of put

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a bad spin on the drug.

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Speaker 1: And then also scientists discovered that DMSO was negatively affecting

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Speaker 1: animals eyes like it was changing their lenses. Because it's

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Speaker 1: used many times on horses and dogs to help, especially

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Speaker 1: racing dogs, to help with their muscles. So they stopped

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00:20:58,405 --> 00:21:00,645
Speaker 1: treating humans with it for a while just because they

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Speaker 1: didn't want anything to happen to humans eyes now, but

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00:21:03,285 --> 00:21:05,845
Speaker 1: they're going to use it on dogs still they to

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Speaker 1: this day. No, to this day, it's used in a

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Speaker 1: lot of vet clinics for like pain relief and muscle relief.

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Speaker 1: It's also using a lot of horses. Fyi, Taylor, I

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Speaker 1: never used it on my horses. Oh my gosh, you

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Speaker 1: just sounded like Veruca salt from Charlie's chocolate factory. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I haven't used it on my horsses Daddy, I want

348
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Speaker 1: a pony. Yeah. So sorry to disappoint you, Taylor, but

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Speaker 1: it is very much still used. Um glad you that

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Speaker 1: are using it on your on your horses though, or not,

351
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Speaker 1: because apparently it's not bad in a controlled doctor or

352
00:21:41,485 --> 00:21:45,085
Speaker 1: vet you know, environment and diluted, I'm sure, and very

353
00:21:45,125 --> 00:21:49,405
Speaker 1: diluted precisely exactly it is when people buy it in

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00:21:49,605 --> 00:21:54,245
Speaker 1: bulk in like random nature websites and then treat it

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Speaker 1: as like this miracle cure where it becomes kind of

356
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Speaker 1: like a problem, like for Gloria. Can't you find it

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00:21:58,285 --> 00:22:01,405
Speaker 1: in like, you know, hardware stores and stuff. You can,

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Speaker 1: according to an article that are out in the New

359
00:22:03,645 --> 00:22:07,965
Speaker 1: York Times, you can find it in stations, hardware stores, Amazon,

360
00:22:08,285 --> 00:22:11,405
Speaker 1: you know, nature supply stores. I don't. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully it's probably has it, like it's it's somewhere apparently.

362
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Speaker 1: I mean no, hopef it's probably doesn't have it. But

363
00:22:17,045 --> 00:22:21,765
Speaker 1: it is basically everywhere. And though it is actually illegal

364
00:22:22,005 --> 00:22:26,165
Speaker 1: for the product to say that it does anything other

365
00:22:26,205 --> 00:22:31,685
Speaker 1: than dmso rose scented. So it's only been FDA approved

366
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Speaker 1: for extreme bladder inflammation for treating that, and it's it

367
00:22:36,725 --> 00:22:39,245
Speaker 1: has to be like a very specific case, like nothing

368
00:22:39,285 --> 00:22:41,605
Speaker 1: else has worked on you, and that's like the only

369
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Speaker 1: thing that's been approved for and of course in a

370
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Speaker 1: doctor environment. But there are very specific groups who still

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00:22:49,165 --> 00:22:51,845
Speaker 1: tount it, as I said, as this miracle drug, especially

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Speaker 1: with arthritis relief, because it apparently relieves pain very quickly,

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Speaker 1: cancer treatments or shingles and other and a bunch of

374
00:23:01,285 --> 00:23:03,605
Speaker 1: other things. As I said, it's like this whole tru

375
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Speaker 1: all thing, and it's so hard because I was reading

376
00:23:07,405 --> 00:23:10,485
Speaker 1: going through like these like nature websites, right, and people

377
00:23:11,405 --> 00:23:16,405
Speaker 1: are suffering, you know, and I understand that this especially

378
00:23:16,405 --> 00:23:18,445
Speaker 1: in the US, you know, the medical system here is

379
00:23:18,565 --> 00:23:23,725
Speaker 1: so messy and fucked up and money driven, Like absolutely yes,

380
00:23:23,805 --> 00:23:27,645
Speaker 1: and especially if you have an illness, a debilitating illness

381
00:23:27,805 --> 00:23:31,005
Speaker 1: like cancer or arthritis or anything like that, you would

382
00:23:31,085 --> 00:23:34,205
Speaker 1: want to find anything that could work for you and

383
00:23:34,245 --> 00:23:36,605
Speaker 1: that also didn't you know, actively harm you. But like

384
00:23:37,085 --> 00:23:42,525
Speaker 1: it has been proven that DMSO actually counteracts chemo, So

385
00:23:43,085 --> 00:23:45,765
Speaker 1: you know, if people are on the internet saying DMSO

386
00:23:45,765 --> 00:23:47,925
Speaker 1: as a miracle drug and someone's you know, doing chemo

387
00:23:48,005 --> 00:23:51,405
Speaker 1: and wants pain relief from it or wants it to

388
00:23:51,445 --> 00:23:54,165
Speaker 1: be sped up because apparently, according to these websites it

389
00:23:54,205 --> 00:23:57,885
Speaker 1: helps cellular regeneration or something like that, and then they

390
00:23:57,925 --> 00:24:00,765
Speaker 1: do DMSO, that could actually hurt them rather than help them.

391
00:24:01,165 --> 00:24:03,125
Speaker 1: But you know, people are so desperate, so it's just

392
00:24:03,165 --> 00:24:05,725
Speaker 1: really it was just a really sad robit hole I

393
00:24:05,725 --> 00:24:08,285
Speaker 1: went down because the whole system is so fucked and

394
00:24:08,325 --> 00:24:12,085
Speaker 1: people are looking for help and are desperate, and that's

395
00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:15,125
Speaker 1: the t on that it sounds like there's not They're like, yeah,

396
00:24:15,205 --> 00:24:16,765
Speaker 1: it's bad for you, But it can be used for

397
00:24:16,765 --> 00:24:18,685
Speaker 1: all of these other things, but like don't use it,

398
00:24:18,685 --> 00:24:20,325
Speaker 1: but it also can be used for this, but like

399
00:24:20,405 --> 00:24:22,725
Speaker 1: don't use it if you're not supposed to, but like

400
00:24:22,765 --> 00:24:25,685
Speaker 1: maybe you should. It's like even well, even like WebMD

401
00:24:26,445 --> 00:24:31,085
Speaker 1: was like it's only FDA approved wink wink for bladder infections.

402
00:24:31,125 --> 00:24:33,205
Speaker 1: But here's a list of all the things that could help.

403
00:24:33,245 --> 00:24:36,965
Speaker 1: And it's like all of the DMSO that I found

404
00:24:36,965 --> 00:24:42,325
Speaker 1: available online was those really high concentrations. And here's the

405
00:24:42,325 --> 00:24:46,125
Speaker 1: big problem with that. If it's not used under you know,

406
00:24:46,325 --> 00:24:50,125
Speaker 1: doctor's orders and you just buy it online point nine

407
00:24:50,165 --> 00:24:55,045
Speaker 1: percent or whatever, it seeps so quickly into your bloodstream,

408
00:24:55,365 --> 00:24:59,165
Speaker 1: and the industrial grade DMSO, because it's not approved for

409
00:24:59,285 --> 00:25:01,605
Speaker 1: medical use, is not purified in the way that it

410
00:25:01,645 --> 00:25:05,085
Speaker 1: needs to. So you are putting in these this chemical

411
00:25:05,165 --> 00:25:08,645
Speaker 1: solve that is not like approved for medical use and

412
00:25:08,685 --> 00:25:13,245
Speaker 1: therefore might have dangerous substances directly into your bloodstream or

413
00:25:13,445 --> 00:25:18,525
Speaker 1: ingesting it or whatever, and being like, oh, yeah, pain relief.

414
00:25:18,525 --> 00:25:21,765
Speaker 1: This feels great right now, But then it could actually

415
00:25:22,365 --> 00:25:24,805
Speaker 1: be really bad for you because it's not your blood's

416
00:25:24,845 --> 00:25:27,125
Speaker 1: flowing with all of this stuff that you don't even

417
00:25:27,125 --> 00:25:30,965
Speaker 1: know about right, because it was not approved anyway, Gabby,

418
00:25:31,045 --> 00:25:37,925
Speaker 1: do you have a less depressing story for us? This

419
00:25:40,085 --> 00:25:48,725
Speaker 1: not really, It has some depressing elements. For example, midwifery, midwiffery.

420
00:25:48,925 --> 00:25:52,205
Speaker 1: Isn't that helping babies come to life? I know what

421
00:25:52,365 --> 00:25:57,485
Speaker 1: a tragedy. Oh okay, Well I cannot wait to hear

422
00:25:57,525 --> 00:26:01,125
Speaker 1: about this. Oh right, Yes, I do have a story

423
00:26:01,885 --> 00:26:05,565
Speaker 1: that's not going to be the most chipper of stories.

424
00:26:05,685 --> 00:26:12,045
Speaker 1: But it especially because it happened on September eleventh, seventeen

425
00:26:12,245 --> 00:26:16,765
Speaker 1: sixty seven. Okay, so way before, so it was kind

426
00:26:16,805 --> 00:26:22,045
Speaker 1: of a different vibe, you know, back then. Okay, Okay,

427
00:26:22,125 --> 00:26:26,605
Speaker 1: So September eleventh, seventeen sixty seven, we're in London and

428
00:26:26,645 --> 00:26:30,525
Speaker 1: we're at a cool, fun and flirty trial, okay, And

429
00:26:30,805 --> 00:26:35,725
Speaker 1: it's forty seven year old Elizabeth brown Rigg, her husband James,

430
00:26:35,725 --> 00:26:39,125
Speaker 1: and her son John. They're all on trial for the

431
00:26:39,205 --> 00:26:45,485
Speaker 1: abuse of three of Elizabeth's apprentices, all named Mary. This

432
00:26:45,605 --> 00:26:48,325
Speaker 1: is a very like British thing. I was about to say,

433
00:26:49,005 --> 00:26:53,845
Speaker 1: Mary Elizabeth. Yeah, the brown Rigg family. They're on trial

434
00:26:54,045 --> 00:26:59,005
Speaker 1: for the abuse of Elizabeth's apprentices, and specifically they are

435
00:26:59,045 --> 00:27:01,805
Speaker 1: on trial for the murder of one of the apprentices

436
00:27:01,925 --> 00:27:07,285
Speaker 1: named Mary Clifford apprentices of what apprentices of Elizabeth. So

437
00:27:07,445 --> 00:27:11,965
Speaker 1: Elizabeth was a midwife, and so there was kind of

438
00:27:11,965 --> 00:27:14,525
Speaker 1: this practice at the time in like the seventeen sixties

439
00:27:14,525 --> 00:27:17,725
Speaker 1: and seventeen fifties. Apparently there was just like a huge

440
00:27:17,805 --> 00:27:21,845
Speaker 1: economic crisis that was sort of coupled with a lot

441
00:27:21,885 --> 00:27:24,605
Speaker 1: of kids becoming orphans or kids who had parents who

442
00:27:24,645 --> 00:27:28,005
Speaker 1: couldn't care for them. So a lot of times, uh,

443
00:27:28,045 --> 00:27:32,085
Speaker 1: you know, affiliated groups like the Foundling Hospital and London

444
00:27:32,605 --> 00:27:35,565
Speaker 1: would you know, have too many kids that they couldn't

445
00:27:35,565 --> 00:27:37,165
Speaker 1: take care of, so then they would like put them

446
00:27:37,165 --> 00:27:40,765
Speaker 1: as a free apprentices to help out people. But basically

447
00:27:40,765 --> 00:27:44,965
Speaker 1: it was like a servant more what it was. Okay,

448
00:27:45,125 --> 00:27:50,845
Speaker 1: so like interns. Now, yes, like interns. They were unpaid interns.

449
00:27:50,845 --> 00:27:53,165
Speaker 1: I mean they got at least they got room and

450
00:27:53,205 --> 00:27:55,925
Speaker 1: board though. But also it was perfectly legal back in

451
00:27:55,965 --> 00:27:58,165
Speaker 1: the day to you know, beat your servants and stuff.

452
00:27:58,205 --> 00:28:02,325
Speaker 1: But they went a little bit too far, okay. Basically

453
00:28:03,005 --> 00:28:06,645
Speaker 1: the beginning of the trial, it says the judges like Elizabeth,

454
00:28:06,725 --> 00:28:10,205
Speaker 1: James and John are indicted for that day not having

455
00:28:10,245 --> 00:28:12,725
Speaker 1: the fear of God before their eyes, but being moved

456
00:28:12,765 --> 00:28:16,965
Speaker 1: by the instigation of the devil did wickedly, maliciously and

457
00:28:17,165 --> 00:28:23,005
Speaker 1: feloniously make an assault on Mary Clifford Comma spenster because

458
00:28:23,045 --> 00:28:25,765
Speaker 1: it's important to say that a fourteen year old is

459
00:28:25,805 --> 00:28:29,845
Speaker 1: a spencer. Okay, okay, wait, what's a spinster again? Just

460
00:28:30,005 --> 00:28:35,045
Speaker 1: um for people like me, unmarried women. I mean it

461
00:28:35,205 --> 00:28:37,485
Speaker 1: was at one point it was like an unmarried woman

462
00:28:37,645 --> 00:28:39,805
Speaker 1: up to age like twenty six or twenty seven, and

463
00:28:39,845 --> 00:28:49,765
Speaker 1: then after that you become a Thornback Taylor Colma Thornback anyway,

464
00:28:49,805 --> 00:28:51,845
Speaker 1: so they're on trial. So basically what had happened is

465
00:28:51,885 --> 00:28:55,565
Speaker 1: that so Elizabeth, she grew up in working class London

466
00:28:56,245 --> 00:28:58,805
Speaker 1: at one point she was even a servant herself, and

467
00:28:58,925 --> 00:29:01,685
Speaker 1: at the time, because of like the economy, people actually

468
00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:04,045
Speaker 1: weren't getting married until a little bit later in their life,

469
00:29:04,045 --> 00:29:06,165
Speaker 1: like they would spend the first decade of their adulthood

470
00:29:06,245 --> 00:29:08,725
Speaker 1: usually working or something. So she didn't end up getting

471
00:29:08,725 --> 00:29:12,565
Speaker 1: married to James until she was twenty seven. James was

472
00:29:12,645 --> 00:29:15,325
Speaker 1: the house painter in the house that she was being

473
00:29:15,365 --> 00:29:17,605
Speaker 1: a servant, you know, the painter and the servant, the

474
00:29:17,645 --> 00:29:22,085
Speaker 1: classic love story. And they got married and they ended

475
00:29:22,165 --> 00:29:25,525
Speaker 1: up having a bounty of children. They had sixteen kids,

476
00:29:26,085 --> 00:29:31,525
Speaker 1: but only three survived. Good lord. Yeah, and at this

477
00:29:31,525 --> 00:29:34,765
Speaker 1: this is where some people have already speculated at like

478
00:29:34,805 --> 00:29:38,325
Speaker 1: Elizabeth really fucked up behavior because at the time, you know,

479
00:29:38,365 --> 00:29:42,725
Speaker 1: it was pretty common for kids to die. So it

480
00:29:42,805 --> 00:29:45,605
Speaker 1: was basically like fifteen percent of kids didn't make it

481
00:29:45,645 --> 00:29:48,405
Speaker 1: past their first birthday, and then usually half of kids

482
00:29:48,405 --> 00:29:50,885
Speaker 1: before the age of twelve would die because of viruses

483
00:29:50,885 --> 00:29:55,965
Speaker 1: like mom's measles, smallpox, etc. But a whopping eighty two

484
00:29:56,005 --> 00:29:59,045
Speaker 1: percent of her children died, and so some people have

485
00:29:59,125 --> 00:30:03,165
Speaker 1: speculated that she beat her kids and they died because

486
00:30:03,165 --> 00:30:06,365
Speaker 1: the only survivors were boys. But you know, this one

487
00:30:06,445 --> 00:30:09,205
Speaker 1: is a big speculation, so, you know, but they are

488
00:30:09,245 --> 00:30:12,485
Speaker 1: thinking that maybe she had a thing where she hated women. Maybe,

489
00:30:12,645 --> 00:30:14,805
Speaker 1: so is it true. We don't know. You weren't there,

490
00:30:14,885 --> 00:30:16,885
Speaker 1: We don't know, We don't know. No one's really sure,

491
00:30:16,885 --> 00:30:22,685
Speaker 1: but they have been, you know, thinking maybe so. Her husband, James,

492
00:30:22,805 --> 00:30:26,405
Speaker 1: had a successful plumbing business, and Elizabeth was becoming a

493
00:30:26,445 --> 00:30:29,605
Speaker 1: well respected midwife, so you know, they're both dealing with

494
00:30:29,645 --> 00:30:33,925
Speaker 1: pipes and suction. Hah Okay. At one point, the Foundling

495
00:30:33,965 --> 00:30:36,885
Speaker 1: Hospital and some other affiliated organizations, we're like, hey, you

496
00:30:36,885 --> 00:30:39,765
Speaker 1: should have some apprentices, you know, so that we can

497
00:30:39,805 --> 00:30:41,165
Speaker 1: also get rid of some of these kids that we

498
00:30:41,205 --> 00:30:43,565
Speaker 1: have to take care of. Ah. And usually when you

499
00:30:43,765 --> 00:30:45,965
Speaker 1: get an apprentice, there would be like this first month

500
00:30:46,165 --> 00:30:49,965
Speaker 1: period that was called of liking and it was basically

501
00:30:50,005 --> 00:30:52,285
Speaker 1: the apprentice and the person that the apprentice was going

502
00:30:52,325 --> 00:30:54,885
Speaker 1: to be helping, they just for a month they would

503
00:30:55,205 --> 00:30:57,445
Speaker 1: do a trial period and see if they liked each other,

504
00:30:57,605 --> 00:31:00,205
Speaker 1: and at the end of the of liking period, you

505
00:31:00,205 --> 00:31:03,765
Speaker 1: would stay on. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of like how

506
00:31:03,805 --> 00:31:07,925
Speaker 1: structured that is, Like okay, yeah, a month of hanging

507
00:31:07,925 --> 00:31:10,285
Speaker 1: out and then if I don't like you, you know,

508
00:31:10,805 --> 00:31:13,725
Speaker 1: ex out of the of liking you know. Yeah, by

509
00:31:13,885 --> 00:31:19,605
Speaker 1: Sucker precisely. Yeah. So the first apprentice Elizabeth took on

510
00:31:19,725 --> 00:31:22,885
Speaker 1: was fourteen year old Mary Jones. Thing is, the liking

511
00:31:22,965 --> 00:31:26,245
Speaker 1: period had gone really well, and she became an official apprentice,

512
00:31:26,925 --> 00:31:29,565
Speaker 1: and then they got another one, another fourteen year old

513
00:31:29,645 --> 00:31:33,445
Speaker 1: named Mary. This was Mary Mitchell, and unfortunately they had

514
00:31:33,485 --> 00:31:36,565
Speaker 1: the first month where it seemed totally fine, but then

515
00:31:36,605 --> 00:31:40,325
Speaker 1: they realized that Elizabeth was a bit of a sadistic,

516
00:31:40,885 --> 00:31:44,245
Speaker 1: terrible person. Because Elizabeth had a really great reputation, you know,

517
00:31:44,325 --> 00:31:46,485
Speaker 1: she was like helping all these poor women have their kids.

518
00:31:47,045 --> 00:31:50,125
Speaker 1: And you know she's really good midwife, well respected. She

519
00:31:50,205 --> 00:31:53,125
Speaker 1: was really good at dating, like the dating period. Yeah, yeah,

520
00:31:53,165 --> 00:31:56,845
Speaker 1: she was good at that liking period. This is like, sorry,

521
00:31:56,925 --> 00:31:59,645
Speaker 1: this is just prime for Elizabeth to be haunted by

522
00:31:59,685 --> 00:32:05,045
Speaker 1: these three Marys. Just say, totally haunted. So after a

523
00:32:05,045 --> 00:32:08,245
Speaker 1: few months after both Mary Mitchell and Mary Jones were there,

524
00:32:08,285 --> 00:32:11,685
Speaker 1: Mary Jones ends up escaping and running away from the

525
00:32:11,725 --> 00:32:14,885
Speaker 1: Brown rig House. She gets back to the Foundling Hospital

526
00:32:14,925 --> 00:32:18,205
Speaker 1: and her wounds were so bad that because she had

527
00:32:18,245 --> 00:32:20,565
Speaker 1: like all of these like bruises and cuts all over

528
00:32:20,645 --> 00:32:23,085
Speaker 1: her body, and she was telling them about like how

529
00:32:23,125 --> 00:32:26,645
Speaker 1: horrifically they are being beaten and all these really excessive

530
00:32:26,645 --> 00:32:29,645
Speaker 1: beatings and like terrible treatment and like not being fed

531
00:32:29,685 --> 00:32:33,445
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and so the Foundling Hospital was like, Okay, cool,

532
00:32:33,485 --> 00:32:36,005
Speaker 1: we're going to dissolve your apprenticeship. You don't have to

533
00:32:36,045 --> 00:32:39,165
Speaker 1: go back there. Mary Mitchell, though, is still at the

534
00:32:39,205 --> 00:32:42,045
Speaker 1: Brown Rigg House, but it is very clear that something

535
00:32:42,165 --> 00:32:44,725
Speaker 1: very bad's happening. But probably because they did have this

536
00:32:44,805 --> 00:32:49,525
Speaker 1: like unhoused child crisis, they do end up sending another apprentice,

537
00:32:49,765 --> 00:32:54,405
Speaker 1: another Mary. Then rig household and this was Mary Clifford.

538
00:32:55,005 --> 00:32:57,765
Speaker 1: So Mary Jones got out, Mary Mitchell's still there. Mary

539
00:32:57,765 --> 00:33:01,045
Speaker 1: Clifford joins the household, and at this point it really

540
00:33:01,085 --> 00:33:05,965
Speaker 1: seems that the punishments got really bad, and at trial,

541
00:33:06,085 --> 00:33:08,845
Speaker 1: Mary Mitchell also like kind of goes into what was happening.

542
00:33:09,005 --> 00:33:11,525
Speaker 1: It was very often that they would get hit in

543
00:33:11,565 --> 00:33:13,445
Speaker 1: the back by a cane, like in the back room

544
00:33:13,445 --> 00:33:15,885
Speaker 1: in their head. They would also give the girls like

545
00:33:15,925 --> 00:33:18,845
Speaker 1: these tasks that they would be totally unable to do,

546
00:33:18,925 --> 00:33:23,005
Speaker 1: like moving huge pieces of furniture that they weren't strong

547
00:33:23,125 --> 00:33:25,925
Speaker 1: enough to carry. But also they were kind of being starved,

548
00:33:25,965 --> 00:33:29,285
Speaker 1: so they didn't have the strength obviously to like move things.

549
00:33:29,725 --> 00:33:32,605
Speaker 1: Like Mary Clifford one time, because she was fourteen as well,

550
00:33:32,685 --> 00:33:35,245
Speaker 1: she wet the bed and then they're like, hey, you

551
00:33:35,245 --> 00:33:38,485
Speaker 1: don't get a bed anymore. And so they would just

552
00:33:38,525 --> 00:33:41,365
Speaker 1: like throw them in the basement. They would lock them

553
00:33:41,365 --> 00:33:43,325
Speaker 1: in the cellar. They would just lock them there all

554
00:33:43,365 --> 00:33:45,765
Speaker 1: weekend with like a piece of bread and no water

555
00:33:45,925 --> 00:33:49,885
Speaker 1: and just like leave them there. It's like the real Cinderella, Yeah,

556
00:33:49,925 --> 00:33:52,445
Speaker 1: And it was just like, actually the evil Stepmother trope

557
00:33:52,525 --> 00:33:56,885
Speaker 1: does kind of come from Elizabeth Brown Rigg Oh my gosh,

558
00:33:57,045 --> 00:34:01,245
Speaker 1: way to put it together, even though she was just

559
00:34:01,325 --> 00:34:06,485
Speaker 1: the evil midwife. But yeah, they're just having like they

560
00:34:06,485 --> 00:34:10,365
Speaker 1: were just punished for the smallest things. And the worst

561
00:34:10,365 --> 00:34:12,845
Speaker 1: thing that would happen is if Elizabeth would get really

562
00:34:12,885 --> 00:34:14,525
Speaker 1: mad at them. What she would do is they had

563
00:34:14,565 --> 00:34:17,725
Speaker 1: this hook and she would chain them up to the hook,

564
00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:21,205
Speaker 1: strip them naked, and just whip them. I do not

565
00:34:21,325 --> 00:34:23,965
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, and she and there's times where she

566
00:34:23,965 --> 00:34:26,645
Speaker 1: would whip them until basically, you know, she was physically

567
00:34:26,685 --> 00:34:30,445
Speaker 1: exhausted and couldn't whip them anymore. And it was also

568
00:34:30,685 --> 00:34:34,005
Speaker 1: became pretty clear that also the husband would sometimes beat them.

569
00:34:34,085 --> 00:34:36,885
Speaker 1: One time he beat them with this like whip that

570
00:34:37,205 --> 00:34:39,045
Speaker 1: he beat them so badly that it broke and then

571
00:34:39,045 --> 00:34:41,285
Speaker 1: he had to remake the whip. And then the sun

572
00:34:41,365 --> 00:34:44,085
Speaker 1: sometimes would hit them as well. Oh so this was

573
00:34:44,125 --> 00:34:45,845
Speaker 1: like a family thing, because I was about to ask

574
00:34:45,885 --> 00:34:49,085
Speaker 1: where was the son? Where was the son and husband?

575
00:34:49,085 --> 00:34:50,725
Speaker 1: But I guess they were also a part of it.

576
00:34:50,925 --> 00:34:53,325
Speaker 1: They were like, yeah, this is fine. Yeah, and they

577
00:34:53,365 --> 00:34:56,165
Speaker 1: also it seems that the dad are not the dad.

578
00:34:56,245 --> 00:35:00,365
Speaker 1: The husband. He also had apprentices for his business, and

579
00:35:00,405 --> 00:35:03,205
Speaker 1: it seems like they kind of his apprentices were all men,

580
00:35:03,605 --> 00:35:06,525
Speaker 1: and they kind of like knew what was going on.

581
00:35:06,565 --> 00:35:08,365
Speaker 1: I guess they were boys. It's like they knew what

582
00:35:08,405 --> 00:35:10,525
Speaker 1: was happening in the household, but it was just sort

583
00:35:10,565 --> 00:35:13,125
Speaker 1: of like it seemed like a pretty scary place to be.

584
00:35:13,205 --> 00:35:15,925
Speaker 1: But the boys never got beat. It was just the girls,

585
00:35:15,925 --> 00:35:18,805
Speaker 1: the apprentices of Elizabeth, and Elizabeth was definitely the one

586
00:35:19,125 --> 00:35:21,565
Speaker 1: who was dolling out most most of the punishments. And

587
00:35:21,565 --> 00:35:26,885
Speaker 1: then finally one day Mary, because like both of the Mary's,

588
00:35:26,925 --> 00:35:29,405
Speaker 1: they would have to like sleep in the cellar basically.

589
00:35:29,525 --> 00:35:32,725
Speaker 1: And then one time Mary Clifford was so hungry that

590
00:35:32,805 --> 00:35:35,085
Speaker 1: she snuck out of the cellar and she was crawled

591
00:35:35,085 --> 00:35:37,605
Speaker 1: into the where they were storing the food, and she

592
00:35:37,685 --> 00:35:39,885
Speaker 1: opened up this cupboard that was locked because she was

593
00:35:39,925 --> 00:35:42,925
Speaker 1: like so hungry, and unfortunately the cupboard there was actually

594
00:35:42,925 --> 00:35:46,285
Speaker 1: no food in it. But then Elizabeth discovered her in

595
00:35:46,325 --> 00:35:49,365
Speaker 1: the act of doing this, so hunger up stripped her

596
00:35:49,405 --> 00:35:54,005
Speaker 1: naked and just beat her for days and it was

597
00:35:54,085 --> 00:35:56,565
Speaker 1: just really really bad. And they also made her like

598
00:35:56,685 --> 00:35:59,805
Speaker 1: sleep in this like padlocked area where they would store

599
00:35:59,845 --> 00:36:03,325
Speaker 1: the coal. It was just like this horrible, horrible thing

600
00:36:03,325 --> 00:36:06,005
Speaker 1: that was happening. But then one of the neighbors actually

601
00:36:06,125 --> 00:36:10,445
Speaker 1: ended up sort of seeing Mary Clifford hung up on

602
00:36:10,485 --> 00:36:13,925
Speaker 1: this hook thing and was like oh wow, oh now,

603
00:36:14,285 --> 00:36:17,685
Speaker 1: so got in touch with like was able to notify

604
00:36:17,725 --> 00:36:21,525
Speaker 1: the hospital, and so mary Clifford's biological mom ended up

605
00:36:21,525 --> 00:36:23,285
Speaker 1: coming because Mary Clifford was just like very poor and

606
00:36:23,365 --> 00:36:25,885
Speaker 1: her parents couldn't care for her. But her mom came

607
00:36:26,445 --> 00:36:29,645
Speaker 1: to sort of investigate and see what was happening. And

608
00:36:29,685 --> 00:36:32,805
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, Mary's not here. You know, she's out

609
00:36:32,845 --> 00:36:36,765
Speaker 1: in the country, you know, just enjoying life or whatever. Hahaha,

610
00:36:36,845 --> 00:36:41,245
Speaker 1: come back later. But when mary Clifford's mom left, some

611
00:36:41,245 --> 00:36:43,205
Speaker 1: of the neighbors pulled her aside and were like, hey,

612
00:36:43,605 --> 00:36:47,165
Speaker 1: they're lying. She's in the basement, She's in the cellar, okay.

613
00:36:47,485 --> 00:36:49,565
Speaker 1: So then they were able to convince some people from

614
00:36:49,565 --> 00:36:52,405
Speaker 1: the Foundling Hospital, like some investigator type people to come

615
00:36:52,405 --> 00:36:55,965
Speaker 1: over to the house and they got in and again

616
00:36:56,005 --> 00:36:58,845
Speaker 1: they were just like, oh, she's not here or whatever,

617
00:36:58,885 --> 00:37:00,765
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, seriously, where is she And they're like, oh,

618
00:37:00,885 --> 00:37:05,205
Speaker 1: here she is in this locked inside this cupboard. Oh

619
00:37:05,725 --> 00:37:07,685
Speaker 1: she is. And they found her and she was like

620
00:37:07,725 --> 00:37:10,365
Speaker 1: super bruised and her skin was broken all over her body,

621
00:37:10,725 --> 00:37:12,965
Speaker 1: and also her head had swollen to like two times

622
00:37:12,965 --> 00:37:15,805
Speaker 1: its normal size from all these injuries. They took her

623
00:37:15,805 --> 00:37:17,645
Speaker 1: to the hospital and there's nothing they could do for

624
00:37:17,685 --> 00:37:21,045
Speaker 1: her infections, and she died a few days later. Oh

625
00:37:21,085 --> 00:37:25,965
Speaker 1: my goodness. But they were they were found up by then. Yeah.

626
00:37:26,005 --> 00:37:27,885
Speaker 1: But then the thing is that it was sort of

627
00:37:27,925 --> 00:37:30,605
Speaker 1: unclear exactly how this happened. But James, I know, the

628
00:37:30,805 --> 00:37:34,405
Speaker 1: husband was taken prisoner immediately, but John the son, and

629
00:37:34,445 --> 00:37:37,165
Speaker 1: Elizabeth had escaped from the house and they were on

630
00:37:37,205 --> 00:37:41,925
Speaker 1: the run. But meanwhile, the press had gotten ahold of

631
00:37:41,965 --> 00:37:45,045
Speaker 1: this story, and it was everywhere because obviously, you know,

632
00:37:45,085 --> 00:37:49,725
Speaker 1: people hate child abusers, and so they were like wanted

633
00:37:49,805 --> 00:37:52,405
Speaker 1: posters all over the place. Her name was like the newspapers,

634
00:37:52,725 --> 00:37:55,565
Speaker 1: and just there's this public fervor against the brown Rigs.

635
00:37:55,925 --> 00:37:57,725
Speaker 1: It was just like everybody knew about it, and so

636
00:37:57,805 --> 00:38:00,805
Speaker 1: everyone was looking out for them. And soon an innkeeper

637
00:38:00,845 --> 00:38:03,685
Speaker 1: saw their picture and then he alerted the authorities because

638
00:38:03,685 --> 00:38:06,925
Speaker 1: he saw because the brown Rigs were actually hiding out

639
00:38:06,925 --> 00:38:09,365
Speaker 1: in his end, and then he recognized them from the picture,

640
00:38:09,885 --> 00:38:13,165
Speaker 1: but they had disguised themselves as husband and wife. Remember

641
00:38:13,205 --> 00:38:15,965
Speaker 1: this is like a son and a mom um, and

642
00:38:16,005 --> 00:38:18,605
Speaker 1: when they were arrested, they like the people went up

643
00:38:18,645 --> 00:38:21,245
Speaker 1: into their like the hotel room that they were staying in,

644
00:38:21,445 --> 00:38:24,645
Speaker 1: and they found like all of these wigs and disguises,

645
00:38:25,245 --> 00:38:27,765
Speaker 1: and some reports even say that Elizabeth was like dressed

646
00:38:27,845 --> 00:38:30,085
Speaker 1: up as a man, so they you know, they were hiding.

647
00:38:30,205 --> 00:38:33,205
Speaker 1: But so sketchy. So I just super sketch of a

648
00:38:33,205 --> 00:38:37,365
Speaker 1: picture of this bitch. And first of all, I'm not

649
00:38:37,605 --> 00:38:40,885
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like insult her, although she's not she's

650
00:38:40,925 --> 00:38:44,165
Speaker 1: not it, but um, there is. For some reason, stay

651
00:38:44,205 --> 00:38:49,485
Speaker 1: at homemom dot com did like a special on her, which, okay, anyway,

652
00:38:49,525 --> 00:38:54,685
Speaker 1: continue Gabby stay at homemom dot com. That's my I

653
00:38:54,685 --> 00:38:57,485
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe it's an English thing. There was kind

654
00:38:57,525 --> 00:39:00,565
Speaker 1: of like after all this happened, Uh, she was kind

655
00:39:00,565 --> 00:39:04,845
Speaker 1: of like the Boogeyman basically, like understandably, yeah, moms would

656
00:39:04,885 --> 00:39:08,205
Speaker 1: be like parents would be like, hey, if you keep misbehaving,

657
00:39:08,285 --> 00:39:10,965
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to send you to Elizabeth brown Riggs house.

658
00:39:11,205 --> 00:39:13,845
Speaker 1: You know, so the literally thing they would say to

659
00:39:14,165 --> 00:39:17,245
Speaker 1: threaten their children to behave better. But anyway, so they're

660
00:39:17,285 --> 00:39:21,405
Speaker 1: all caught. Eventually there's a trial and you know where

661
00:39:21,405 --> 00:39:24,245
Speaker 1: the judge was like, the Devil's got them. And what

662
00:39:24,405 --> 00:39:28,165
Speaker 1: ends up happening is that James and John are sentenced

663
00:39:28,365 --> 00:39:32,085
Speaker 1: to six months in prison. That's it. Yeah, but then

664
00:39:32,125 --> 00:39:36,525
Speaker 1: Elizabeth brown Rigg is sentenced to be hanged. And then

665
00:39:37,085 --> 00:39:39,605
Speaker 1: the worst thing, not worse thing, but the other thing

666
00:39:39,685 --> 00:39:42,685
Speaker 1: that would humiliate this family is then she was sentenced

667
00:39:42,725 --> 00:39:47,965
Speaker 1: after she was dead to be publicly dissected for science.

668
00:39:49,965 --> 00:39:53,205
Speaker 1: They loved a good dissection back then, they loved it.

669
00:39:53,805 --> 00:39:56,405
Speaker 1: They loved it. It's also kind of funny because like

670
00:39:56,485 --> 00:39:58,765
Speaker 1: during the trial, the brown Riggs tried to get some

671
00:39:58,845 --> 00:40:03,445
Speaker 1: of the other apprentices, like the James's apprentices, to like

672
00:40:03,645 --> 00:40:06,005
Speaker 1: testify for them, because they even had this princess who

673
00:40:06,005 --> 00:40:08,725
Speaker 1: they were like, hey, go to our house, take down

674
00:40:08,725 --> 00:40:10,685
Speaker 1: all the hooks, like, hide all the whips, hide all

675
00:40:10,725 --> 00:40:14,285
Speaker 1: the chains. And then he was like no, and then

676
00:40:14,405 --> 00:40:16,685
Speaker 1: told everybody, Hey, they also tried to get me to

677
00:40:16,685 --> 00:40:20,925
Speaker 1: cover evidence. So they fucking suck. Okay, nobody wanted to

678
00:40:20,965 --> 00:40:22,885
Speaker 1: help them, because I don't think even their family members

679
00:40:22,885 --> 00:40:25,605
Speaker 1: were just like, yeah, they're kind of shitty, so yeah,

680
00:40:25,645 --> 00:40:28,725
Speaker 1: good good for them for not you know, yeah, these

681
00:40:28,725 --> 00:40:34,205
Speaker 1: people were vile. They're pretty vile, so Elizabeth is going

682
00:40:34,245 --> 00:40:37,765
Speaker 1: to be hanged at this notorious place we're hangings called Tyburn.

683
00:40:38,165 --> 00:40:40,005
Speaker 1: It's a gallows where you can hang up to twenty

684
00:40:40,005 --> 00:40:45,125
Speaker 1: three people at a time. What a deal. Yeah, And

685
00:40:45,165 --> 00:40:47,085
Speaker 1: so it's like a very famous place. They started using

686
00:40:47,125 --> 00:40:50,005
Speaker 1: it in the fourteen hundreds, and then when Queen Elizabeth,

687
00:40:50,045 --> 00:40:52,725
Speaker 1: Elizabeth the First was queen, it was such a popular

688
00:40:52,765 --> 00:40:55,365
Speaker 1: place for people to see the hangings that usually people's

689
00:40:55,365 --> 00:40:58,365
Speaker 1: trials would be on Friday and then on Mondays when

690
00:40:58,405 --> 00:41:00,205
Speaker 1: they would do the hangings. So she was like, hey, guys,

691
00:41:00,205 --> 00:41:02,725
Speaker 1: we're going to take Mondays off now so everyone can

692
00:41:02,805 --> 00:41:06,925
Speaker 1: go and see the hangings, you know. And so it

693
00:41:07,005 --> 00:41:08,925
Speaker 1: was like basically what had happened is you would be

694
00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:12,565
Speaker 1: at the Newgate Prison, which was pretty a very famous

695
00:41:12,605 --> 00:41:15,205
Speaker 1: prison at the time, and the way that would happen

696
00:41:15,205 --> 00:41:18,325
Speaker 1: so they would load you into like a cart wagon

697
00:41:18,405 --> 00:41:21,165
Speaker 1: thing and they would go to three miles over to

698
00:41:21,165 --> 00:41:23,925
Speaker 1: Tyburn where they would actually hang you. But then you

699
00:41:24,045 --> 00:41:26,645
Speaker 1: take two stops along the way, like the prisoners would,

700
00:41:26,645 --> 00:41:28,965
Speaker 1: where you go to two different pubs, so you were

701
00:41:29,005 --> 00:41:32,365
Speaker 1: allowed to get a little bit drunk. Still you were hanged. Stop.

702
00:41:32,845 --> 00:41:38,765
Speaker 1: That's nice, but that probably didn't happen for Elizabeth because

703
00:41:38,805 --> 00:41:40,925
Speaker 1: there was such like negativity around her that they were

704
00:41:40,965 --> 00:41:43,805
Speaker 1: like people trailing the wagon just like yelling terrible things

705
00:41:43,805 --> 00:41:46,125
Speaker 1: at her, you know, obviously because she was not the

706
00:41:46,165 --> 00:41:48,445
Speaker 1: best person, so she probably didn't get out. Like if

707
00:41:48,485 --> 00:41:50,285
Speaker 1: she had gotten out of the wagon, I imagine people

708
00:41:50,285 --> 00:41:51,925
Speaker 1: would have like already tried to kill her because there

709
00:41:52,005 --> 00:41:54,765
Speaker 1: was like so much public sentiment against her. And I

710
00:41:54,805 --> 00:41:58,005
Speaker 1: read somewhere like at these hangings at Tyburn, thousands and

711
00:41:58,125 --> 00:42:00,445
Speaker 1: thousands of people would come to these and there would

712
00:42:00,445 --> 00:42:02,765
Speaker 1: be like food and market stalls. It was basically like

713
00:42:02,805 --> 00:42:07,445
Speaker 1: a fair would be set up easy. That would be traumatizing.

714
00:42:07,485 --> 00:42:12,885
Speaker 1: I would rather go to work. Good. Wow, that's actually

715
00:42:13,045 --> 00:42:16,805
Speaker 1: really really big for Taylor, because I think I would

716
00:42:16,925 --> 00:42:20,125
Speaker 1: rather go to work than see some public hangings. Yeah,

717
00:42:20,245 --> 00:42:23,645
Speaker 1: for sure. Oh. One of the funniest things I thought

718
00:42:23,645 --> 00:42:25,765
Speaker 1: about this is, like I mean with the Tyburn thing

719
00:42:25,805 --> 00:42:27,845
Speaker 1: is usually they would have the people who were sentenced

720
00:42:27,845 --> 00:42:31,645
Speaker 1: to die, they would give like a speech about like

721
00:42:31,685 --> 00:42:34,405
Speaker 1: either confessing their guilt or whatever. But it did seem

722
00:42:34,445 --> 00:42:36,285
Speaker 1: that people were kind of competitive about it, so like

723
00:42:36,325 --> 00:42:39,125
Speaker 1: they try to make it funny or whatever. And also

724
00:42:39,165 --> 00:42:42,085
Speaker 1: they would like sell like people would be selling soupnirs,

725
00:42:42,085 --> 00:42:45,045
Speaker 1: like they would be selling manuscripts of people's last words,

726
00:42:45,405 --> 00:42:48,485
Speaker 1: but they would start selling them before people actually said

727
00:42:48,525 --> 00:42:51,565
Speaker 1: their last words. So we're just like a funny space.

728
00:42:51,845 --> 00:42:54,445
Speaker 1: That was the original stand up. I was just about it.

729
00:42:55,405 --> 00:42:57,565
Speaker 1: It was like do your last set, you know, I

730
00:42:57,565 --> 00:43:01,125
Speaker 1: imagine not all of them were great, but wow, you're

731
00:43:01,125 --> 00:43:05,125
Speaker 1: about to die. I have a speech for a joke,

732
00:43:05,645 --> 00:43:10,005
Speaker 1: gonna die, Yeah, but first let's make jokes. We're making

733
00:43:10,085 --> 00:43:12,965
Speaker 1: some jokes. And I mean there's like two cases of

734
00:43:13,005 --> 00:43:15,405
Speaker 1: people who actually then survived the hangings and then they're

735
00:43:15,445 --> 00:43:17,885
Speaker 1: exonerated afterwards because they're like, good job, you didn't die.

736
00:43:18,005 --> 00:43:20,685
Speaker 1: But ye. So basically in the cart, the wagon that

737
00:43:20,725 --> 00:43:22,325
Speaker 1: they would bring, they would bring you to tyburn, they

738
00:43:22,365 --> 00:43:24,485
Speaker 1: would hang you up and then they would just remove

739
00:43:24,525 --> 00:43:26,965
Speaker 1: the cart. That's how you would hang. But unfortunately it

740
00:43:27,005 --> 00:43:28,525
Speaker 1: was only like a three inch drop, so it took

741
00:43:28,525 --> 00:43:32,485
Speaker 1: a long time to die. So that's cool of them.

742
00:43:32,645 --> 00:43:35,125
Speaker 1: So Elizabeth, she didn't end up giving a speech or

743
00:43:35,125 --> 00:43:37,245
Speaker 1: anything because everyone hated her. But somebody she had, like

744
00:43:37,285 --> 00:43:40,565
Speaker 1: a religious dude, like say some words confessing her guilt

745
00:43:41,245 --> 00:43:44,765
Speaker 1: and yeah. The thing is like it did take people

746
00:43:44,845 --> 00:43:47,565
Speaker 1: so long to die, sometimes like up to forty five

747
00:43:47,565 --> 00:43:50,005
Speaker 1: minutes because of the short drop that some of them

748
00:43:50,525 --> 00:43:52,965
Speaker 1: writhed around for so long that people would call that

749
00:43:53,045 --> 00:43:58,645
Speaker 1: the tyburn jig. No, oh my god, Yeah, that stresses

750
00:43:58,685 --> 00:44:02,645
Speaker 1: me out so much. Did she do the tyber jig? Yes? No,

751
00:44:02,885 --> 00:44:05,685
Speaker 1: I think she. I think she went pretty quickly, like

752
00:44:05,685 --> 00:44:08,725
Speaker 1: at least less than forty five minutes. And so like

753
00:44:08,765 --> 00:44:11,845
Speaker 1: there's this like really heartfelt scene between like her and

754
00:44:11,965 --> 00:44:14,925
Speaker 1: James and John and like it's really sad and they're

755
00:44:14,965 --> 00:44:16,645
Speaker 1: all crying and all of that, because you know, you

756
00:44:16,645 --> 00:44:21,565
Speaker 1: gotta love mom even though mom's terrible. Um. Go wow,

757
00:44:21,885 --> 00:44:24,525
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about that in therapy. Um. But yeah,

758
00:44:24,525 --> 00:44:26,885
Speaker 1: So she died thirty minutes after she was hanged, and

759
00:44:26,965 --> 00:44:30,005
Speaker 1: indeed she was then immediately taken to the surgeons Hall

760
00:44:30,605 --> 00:44:34,125
Speaker 1: where there was going to be the public dissection, just

761
00:44:34,165 --> 00:44:37,725
Speaker 1: for that extra piece of humiliation. And then after the dissection,

762
00:44:38,125 --> 00:44:42,045
Speaker 1: her skeleton was put on display in the surgeons hall. God,

763
00:44:42,405 --> 00:44:46,965
Speaker 1: is it still available to look at today? Great question.

764
00:44:47,045 --> 00:44:49,485
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I just I was wondering if

765
00:44:49,525 --> 00:44:53,245
Speaker 1: I could, if I could personally jeer at her skeleton,

766
00:44:53,405 --> 00:44:57,045
Speaker 1: you know, Oh my god, Yes, Unfortunately, I do not

767
00:44:57,045 --> 00:44:59,965
Speaker 1: believe it's on display anymore. So I don't think you won't.

768
00:45:00,005 --> 00:45:03,765
Speaker 1: You'll just have to jeer, you know, jeer to the

769
00:45:03,885 --> 00:45:06,205
Speaker 1: vibes in the spirit. You know, well I don't. I

770
00:45:06,205 --> 00:45:08,765
Speaker 1: don't really want to get in contact with her. So yeah,

771
00:45:09,485 --> 00:45:14,285
Speaker 1: actually I literally deeply reject that. Amen. Okay, So thank

772
00:45:14,325 --> 00:45:21,245
Speaker 1: you so much, Gabby. That was a story. And up

773
00:45:21,445 --> 00:45:29,405
Speaker 1: next some more public execution vibes. So we all love

774
00:45:29,445 --> 00:45:33,045
Speaker 1: a good public execution execution, we all have a good

775
00:45:33,405 --> 00:45:38,845
Speaker 1: welcome back. We all love a good public execution story.

776
00:45:38,885 --> 00:45:42,085
Speaker 1: And Gabby actually sent me a really cool article about

777
00:45:42,285 --> 00:45:45,805
Speaker 1: public executions. It was forty five pages long. I read

778
00:45:45,845 --> 00:45:48,365
Speaker 1: it all, and I just I think I'm sharing that

779
00:45:48,405 --> 00:45:50,845
Speaker 1: I read it all because it's impressive that my attention

780
00:45:50,885 --> 00:45:54,285
Speaker 1: span lasts long for a long time, because it usually doesn't.

781
00:45:54,405 --> 00:45:57,405
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, because those dance as fuck too. It was

782
00:45:57,485 --> 00:46:03,725
Speaker 1: like big words today. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it was

783
00:46:03,765 --> 00:46:07,405
Speaker 1: really nice. I read it outside in my backyard, you know,

784
00:46:07,885 --> 00:46:10,365
Speaker 1: listening to the kas kavas. I don't know how to

785
00:46:10,405 --> 00:46:13,165
Speaker 1: say that, whatever point is, I read it because I

786
00:46:13,205 --> 00:46:18,125
Speaker 1: am literate, Yes, so this we kind of It was

787
00:46:18,165 --> 00:46:21,885
Speaker 1: about this strange remedy that you know, would happen in

788
00:46:21,925 --> 00:46:27,005
Speaker 1: Europe right after public executions, people mainly women and children

789
00:46:27,525 --> 00:46:31,245
Speaker 1: would line up at the gallows to receive the cold

790
00:46:31,365 --> 00:46:35,325
Speaker 1: touch of an executed murderer whatever they needed to be cured.

791
00:46:35,845 --> 00:46:38,125
Speaker 1: And they believed, for a good amount of reasons that

792
00:46:38,165 --> 00:46:41,405
Speaker 1: I'll get into, that the stroke of a dead criminal

793
00:46:41,605 --> 00:46:47,925
Speaker 1: would heal many ailments, like just what, yeah, the dead stroke. Yes,

794
00:46:48,485 --> 00:46:53,165
Speaker 1: these ailments included scrofula, which is like tuberculosis that shows

795
00:46:53,245 --> 00:46:57,165
Speaker 1: up externally mostly on the neck, wins which are cysts

796
00:46:57,205 --> 00:46:58,765
Speaker 1: basically what they used to call them ones, and I'm

797
00:46:58,765 --> 00:47:02,325
Speaker 1: going to call them ones from No One. Throat diseases, swellings,

798
00:47:02,365 --> 00:47:07,245
Speaker 1: and skin tumors, so very like um outward like physical problems. Right,

799
00:47:07,365 --> 00:47:11,725
Speaker 1: the dead man's hand was like a topical solution, precisely exactly, Yes,

800
00:47:11,925 --> 00:47:18,285
Speaker 1: the original ms the original the mso not as you know,

801
00:47:18,525 --> 00:47:21,165
Speaker 1: good smelling, because I think that a dead man's hand

802
00:47:21,205 --> 00:47:23,525
Speaker 1: would not smell very good, you know, although it was fresh,

803
00:47:23,685 --> 00:47:27,125
Speaker 1: so maybe it wasn't okay. So like, would you rather

804
00:47:27,285 --> 00:47:32,205
Speaker 1: smell like a dead man or ammonia? I don't know, Gabby,

805
00:47:32,325 --> 00:47:35,925
Speaker 1: what would you I'm gonna have to think about that. Yeah,

806
00:47:36,085 --> 00:47:39,125
Speaker 1: let's you know, ponder it for a little bit. So

807
00:47:39,605 --> 00:47:43,165
Speaker 1: the vibe is this, it's the eighteenth century. You have

808
00:47:43,205 --> 00:47:45,885
Speaker 1: a win on your face. Sorry, girl, you are a

809
00:47:45,925 --> 00:47:48,245
Speaker 1: fourteen year old spinster. You need to get married, bitch.

810
00:47:48,765 --> 00:47:53,285
Speaker 1: And it is believed that a freshly executed criminal and

811
00:47:53,365 --> 00:47:55,645
Speaker 1: it needed to be specifically someone who has experienced an

812
00:47:55,685 --> 00:47:58,725
Speaker 1: early death, so not like your grandfather or anything. It

813
00:47:58,805 --> 00:48:01,645
Speaker 1: had to be, you know, someone who either died by

814
00:48:01,685 --> 00:48:06,165
Speaker 1: suicide or has been murdered executed. There were also like

815
00:48:06,285 --> 00:48:08,525
Speaker 1: you know, wars and soldiers and stuff, but it was

816
00:48:08,565 --> 00:48:10,205
Speaker 1: harder to get to them. It was easier to get

817
00:48:10,245 --> 00:48:13,485
Speaker 1: to the public execution people. So it's believed that their

818
00:48:13,605 --> 00:48:18,565
Speaker 1: touch will cure your ugly when and because back then

819
00:48:18,685 --> 00:48:23,165
Speaker 1: it was very important to be married. You know, women especially,

820
00:48:23,165 --> 00:48:27,005
Speaker 1: we're very worried about having scars or tumors because you know,

821
00:48:27,445 --> 00:48:29,605
Speaker 1: you wouldn't look as pretty and then people might not

822
00:48:29,645 --> 00:48:31,205
Speaker 1: want to marry you, and then you'll be a spinster

823
00:48:31,325 --> 00:48:35,285
Speaker 1: and then a what was it called crooked person, and

824
00:48:35,325 --> 00:48:37,645
Speaker 1: then you'll just be a carrucket. But you know, it

825
00:48:37,685 --> 00:48:40,925
Speaker 1: just seems like ladies always be caring about skincare you

826
00:48:40,925 --> 00:48:44,125
Speaker 1: know it's the dawn of time. Literally, yes, I mean

827
00:48:44,165 --> 00:48:46,165
Speaker 1: eighteenth centuries, not the dawn of time. But I'm sure

828
00:48:46,205 --> 00:48:49,405
Speaker 1: we can look the dawn of time three hundred years ago. Yes,

829
00:48:50,205 --> 00:48:53,565
Speaker 1: So you're like, I gotta get this fixed. So you

830
00:48:53,605 --> 00:48:57,125
Speaker 1: figure out when's the next public execution, and it's usually

831
00:48:57,285 --> 00:49:00,325
Speaker 1: highly publicized, so it's easy to find. You line up

832
00:49:00,525 --> 00:49:04,285
Speaker 1: and you paid the executioner or the hangman, depends where

833
00:49:04,285 --> 00:49:07,085
Speaker 1: you're from. What they would call it around two shillings

834
00:49:07,085 --> 00:49:12,045
Speaker 1: and sixpence, which actually I did some research and it's

835
00:49:12,205 --> 00:49:15,725
Speaker 1: valued today at one hundred and eight dollars and twenty

836
00:49:15,725 --> 00:49:19,525
Speaker 1: seven sets, according to this website created by an economist

837
00:49:19,605 --> 00:49:22,085
Speaker 1: who wanted to know how much tickets to Concertina would

838
00:49:22,085 --> 00:49:24,645
Speaker 1: be today, which weird a rabbit hole to go down,

839
00:49:25,325 --> 00:49:28,125
Speaker 1: but okay, so I went down on a rabbit hole

840
00:49:28,205 --> 00:49:33,085
Speaker 1: on through what fancy skincare. I just love going down

841
00:49:33,165 --> 00:49:38,565
Speaker 1: on things. Uh huh, okay, anyway, it is some fancy skincare, absolutely,

842
00:49:38,925 --> 00:49:42,485
Speaker 1: But you know, desperate times called for desperate measures. Oh gosh,

843
00:49:42,525 --> 00:49:46,085
Speaker 1: that's the theme of this today's episode. Just like desperate people.

844
00:49:46,445 --> 00:49:49,485
Speaker 1: That's really sad. So the height of this practice, it's

845
00:49:49,525 --> 00:49:51,925
Speaker 1: just like it was this whole thing like a ritual. Basically,

846
00:49:51,965 --> 00:49:54,805
Speaker 1: you'd have to get to the stage, you know, walk

847
00:49:54,845 --> 00:49:58,125
Speaker 1: across it with thousands of people watching you, because as

848
00:49:58,165 --> 00:50:00,365
Speaker 1: Gabby said, people would just flood to these things. It

849
00:50:00,365 --> 00:50:02,565
Speaker 1: would be like a big fair, and you would have

850
00:50:02,645 --> 00:50:04,925
Speaker 1: to go and ask this man who literally just killed

851
00:50:04,925 --> 00:50:09,485
Speaker 1: someone publicly, to please stroke your affliction with the hand

852
00:50:09,805 --> 00:50:12,125
Speaker 1: of a dead man. And you had to stroke it

853
00:50:12,245 --> 00:50:15,965
Speaker 1: usually either three seven or nine times, and in a

854
00:50:16,165 --> 00:50:19,765
Speaker 1: very specific way, three seven or nine times, because those

855
00:50:19,765 --> 00:50:25,445
Speaker 1: were considered holy numbers. Question, Yes, did the man who

856
00:50:25,765 --> 00:50:28,885
Speaker 1: just had done the hangings he had to do it

857
00:50:28,925 --> 00:50:31,525
Speaker 1: for you? Yes, he would do it for you, and

858
00:50:31,605 --> 00:50:34,485
Speaker 1: he wasn't one was making the money off of this. Yeah, yeah,

859
00:50:34,485 --> 00:50:35,805
Speaker 1: it makes sense that he would have to do a

860
00:50:35,805 --> 00:50:38,605
Speaker 1: little bit of work. Well he did just kill someone,

861
00:50:38,685 --> 00:50:43,965
Speaker 1: but okay, big work. I would consider, you know, killing

862
00:50:44,005 --> 00:50:47,885
Speaker 1: someone to be relatively labor intensive, although maybe not now

863
00:50:47,925 --> 00:50:49,485
Speaker 1: you just have to pull the cart. Yeah. And then

864
00:50:49,525 --> 00:50:52,005
Speaker 1: in England it was very much just like a lower

865
00:50:52,165 --> 00:50:55,405
Speaker 1: working class job. So it wasn't like they weren't you know,

866
00:50:55,685 --> 00:50:57,685
Speaker 1: seen as like revered or anything. So they had to

867
00:50:57,685 --> 00:50:59,285
Speaker 1: make some extra money. So that's what they would do.

868
00:50:59,445 --> 00:51:03,685
Speaker 1: They also would sell the rope, sometimes hair of the

869
00:51:04,445 --> 00:51:09,565
Speaker 1: dead man, obviously, the hangman's hand, the stroke, among other things,

870
00:51:09,565 --> 00:51:14,245
Speaker 1: just because people wanted a piece of the pie. Yeah,

871
00:51:14,285 --> 00:51:18,485
Speaker 1: it's just the thought behind it I found so fascinating.

872
00:51:18,525 --> 00:51:22,245
Speaker 1: So the idea stemmed from a few religious and psychological

873
00:51:22,325 --> 00:51:24,365
Speaker 1: and medical theories. It was all kind of like a mixture.

874
00:51:24,525 --> 00:51:26,365
Speaker 1: And again this is the eighteenth century, you know, they

875
00:51:26,365 --> 00:51:31,605
Speaker 1: were not building rockets or anything. So one doctor, right,

876
00:51:32,045 --> 00:51:35,925
Speaker 1: because we are the very whatever, we're actually dumb. We're

877
00:51:35,925 --> 00:51:40,845
Speaker 1: all dumb. Okay, they did not have elon musk, just licely.

878
00:51:41,365 --> 00:51:44,725
Speaker 1: So one doctor actually believed that you could transfer the

879
00:51:44,765 --> 00:51:48,365
Speaker 1: illness to the dead hand, and so the illness would

880
00:51:48,405 --> 00:51:52,925
Speaker 1: stay with the dead hand and therefore die with the hand.

881
00:51:53,485 --> 00:51:56,685
Speaker 1: This was also a practice that people would do with

882
00:51:56,885 --> 00:52:00,245
Speaker 1: raw meat. So you would rub some raw meat on

883
00:52:00,445 --> 00:52:03,405
Speaker 1: wherever you needed to be fixed and then place it,

884
00:52:03,645 --> 00:52:05,885
Speaker 1: bury it under the ground, and they believe that the

885
00:52:05,925 --> 00:52:09,645
Speaker 1: illness would travel, you know, with the raw meat and

886
00:52:10,085 --> 00:52:13,205
Speaker 1: die with it. Question. So there were multiple people that

887
00:52:13,285 --> 00:52:15,525
Speaker 1: would they'd get in line to do this, but like,

888
00:52:16,125 --> 00:52:18,725
Speaker 1: what could they not could the hand not transfer it

889
00:52:18,765 --> 00:52:20,485
Speaker 1: back to the next person? Like, wouldn't you want to

890
00:52:20,485 --> 00:52:22,485
Speaker 1: be the first person. I'm sure you would want to

891
00:52:22,525 --> 00:52:25,805
Speaker 1: be the first person, but I think they weren't. First

892
00:52:25,805 --> 00:52:29,885
Speaker 1: of all, Taylor, that's not science. But this doesn't work,

893
00:52:29,925 --> 00:52:32,285
Speaker 1: you know, let's just be very clear about that. I know.

894
00:52:32,325 --> 00:52:34,045
Speaker 1: But I mean, if we're going to go down that,

895
00:52:34,085 --> 00:52:36,645
Speaker 1: if we're going to believe that's the thing, then wouldn't

896
00:52:36,685 --> 00:52:39,125
Speaker 1: you also believe Well I wonder if they believed that,

897
00:52:39,165 --> 00:52:41,605
Speaker 1: like the dead men couldn't give it back once you

898
00:52:41,685 --> 00:52:45,365
Speaker 1: got it, kind of like could there? Right, Okay, all right,

899
00:52:45,565 --> 00:52:49,085
Speaker 1: I don't know, like a sponge, Yeah, precisely, I don't know.

900
00:52:49,165 --> 00:52:51,485
Speaker 1: But if you too, a what sponge touches something else,

901
00:52:51,485 --> 00:52:54,325
Speaker 1: they still the other surface gets damp, It gets a

902
00:52:54,325 --> 00:53:00,885
Speaker 1: little damp. Listen, I'm not trying to, you know, to

903
00:53:01,445 --> 00:53:05,125
Speaker 1: rationalize this um. But another thing, this guy actually was

904
00:53:05,165 --> 00:53:07,245
Speaker 1: a little bit more rational. So John Quincy, he was

905
00:53:07,285 --> 00:53:10,365
Speaker 1: this English medical writer in the eighteenth century. He stated

906
00:53:10,405 --> 00:53:12,605
Speaker 1: that it was actually more of a psychological thing, so

907
00:53:12,725 --> 00:53:16,925
Speaker 1: like similar to the psychology behind divine healing from royalty,

908
00:53:17,005 --> 00:53:19,645
Speaker 1: or like a divine touch, because back then people also

909
00:53:19,685 --> 00:53:22,565
Speaker 1: believe that if they were touched by royalty, they might

910
00:53:22,645 --> 00:53:26,365
Speaker 1: be healed. So a lot of kids especially would seek

911
00:53:26,365 --> 00:53:28,805
Speaker 1: an audience with the king, and then the king would

912
00:53:28,805 --> 00:53:31,645
Speaker 1: like touch the child in a certain place and the

913
00:53:31,805 --> 00:53:35,845
Speaker 1: child believed that it would be healed. Right, And so

914
00:53:36,165 --> 00:53:38,725
Speaker 1: this guy John Quincy was like, it's just a psychological thing.

915
00:53:39,125 --> 00:53:43,325
Speaker 1: You know. You maybe feel like because you were touched,

916
00:53:43,445 --> 00:53:47,445
Speaker 1: you are now healed, and the brain somehow like something

917
00:53:47,485 --> 00:53:52,285
Speaker 1: there dislodges whatever needed to be dislodged. Basically. He also

918
00:53:52,405 --> 00:53:55,925
Speaker 1: said that maybe it was a sensation in wherever the

919
00:53:55,925 --> 00:53:59,885
Speaker 1: tumor was that would affect the tumor, but not necessary.

920
00:53:59,885 --> 00:54:01,525
Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily the fact that it was a dead

921
00:54:01,525 --> 00:54:03,605
Speaker 1: man's hand. It's just like the psychology and the sensation

922
00:54:03,645 --> 00:54:07,565
Speaker 1: behind it the placebo effect exactly, Yes, which to me,

923
00:54:07,725 --> 00:54:12,005
Speaker 1: like obviously makes a little bit more sense than you know,

924
00:54:12,085 --> 00:54:15,325
Speaker 1: what other people were saying. Yeah, I mean, other doctors

925
00:54:15,325 --> 00:54:20,325
Speaker 1: also said that it was like it would reverse the

926
00:54:20,365 --> 00:54:23,045
Speaker 1: blood flow, So if you were touched by the dead

927
00:54:23,045 --> 00:54:26,445
Speaker 1: man's hand, it would either get the blood moving or

928
00:54:26,445 --> 00:54:29,405
Speaker 1: it would reverse the blood flow from where the blood

929
00:54:29,405 --> 00:54:32,405
Speaker 1: needed to kind of move out of the way. Essentially,

930
00:54:32,445 --> 00:54:34,405
Speaker 1: because it was so many times, just like cysts and

931
00:54:34,445 --> 00:54:36,285
Speaker 1: tumors and stuff like that, and people were like, oh, yes,

932
00:54:36,325 --> 00:54:39,445
Speaker 1: those are just blockages, and the blockages just need to

933
00:54:39,485 --> 00:54:43,245
Speaker 1: be moved, which I don't I don't know, I don't

934
00:54:43,245 --> 00:54:47,045
Speaker 1: know how that works. Yeah, I don't think it's I know.

935
00:54:47,085 --> 00:54:49,325
Speaker 1: And of course there was also like a religious element

936
00:54:49,485 --> 00:54:53,205
Speaker 1: of course, very Christian and Catholic and stuff. So Catholics

937
00:54:53,245 --> 00:54:57,845
Speaker 1: believe in purgatory, and so they thought that giving this

938
00:54:57,965 --> 00:55:02,285
Speaker 1: criminal their disease was just like another element of purgatory

939
00:55:02,565 --> 00:55:05,685
Speaker 1: and surely not the worst. Like they were like, oh know,

940
00:55:05,925 --> 00:55:08,765
Speaker 1: my when is not even close to what this man

941
00:55:08,885 --> 00:55:10,965
Speaker 1: is going through right now in purgatory. So they were

942
00:55:11,005 --> 00:55:14,605
Speaker 1: convinced that the criminals bodies would be perfect once the

943
00:55:14,605 --> 00:55:18,405
Speaker 1: criminals worked their way to heaven after purgatory, so they'd

944
00:55:18,405 --> 00:55:20,445
Speaker 1: be fine. So they were like, I'm not doing anything

945
00:55:20,685 --> 00:55:23,405
Speaker 1: you know, sinful or illegal, because I'm just giving this

946
00:55:23,565 --> 00:55:27,085
Speaker 1: guy my little ailment. And this guy's gonna be fined anyway,

947
00:55:27,085 --> 00:55:30,805
Speaker 1: because he's eventually going to heaven, okay, or I mean

948
00:55:30,805 --> 00:55:33,125
Speaker 1: if he's being hanged, is he going to heaven? Well,

949
00:55:33,125 --> 00:55:35,245
Speaker 1: I think they believed that he would go to purgatory

950
00:55:35,805 --> 00:55:38,125
Speaker 1: and so he would have to like deal with his ship,

951
00:55:38,325 --> 00:55:40,205
Speaker 1: and I guess their ship, since they were also giving

952
00:55:40,525 --> 00:55:43,965
Speaker 1: them their ship. But since their little cist wasn't like

953
00:55:44,165 --> 00:55:46,605
Speaker 1: such a bad problem, they're like, he's already dealing with

954
00:55:46,605 --> 00:55:49,525
Speaker 1: his other bullets, so we won't even notice this terrible

955
00:55:49,645 --> 00:55:53,925
Speaker 1: other thing exactly. And then in Christian thought, it was

956
00:55:53,965 --> 00:55:59,645
Speaker 1: also believed that the criminals, by the criminals non consensually

957
00:55:59,685 --> 00:56:03,405
Speaker 1: healing them, the criminals were actually doing one last good act.

958
00:56:03,925 --> 00:56:07,245
Speaker 1: So some Christians believe that they were actually helping their

959
00:56:07,285 --> 00:56:10,925
Speaker 1: criminal atone for their sins by doing something good even

960
00:56:10,965 --> 00:56:17,605
Speaker 1: in death right, okay, rationalized like that, Yeah, whatever you say,

961
00:56:17,885 --> 00:56:20,925
Speaker 1: very rational over here. So that was popular from the

962
00:56:21,045 --> 00:56:25,045
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds to around the eighteen fifties or I think

963
00:56:25,085 --> 00:56:29,285
Speaker 1: the last legal one was eighteen sixty. And obviously it

964
00:56:29,405 --> 00:56:34,805
Speaker 1: became very much illegal. People were like, that is just barbaric,

965
00:56:35,405 --> 00:56:38,965
Speaker 1: and then it stopped happening, and then public executions stopped

966
00:56:38,965 --> 00:56:42,125
Speaker 1: in general. So that's exciting no more. So you got

967
00:56:42,125 --> 00:56:45,845
Speaker 1: to source your dead body somewhere else precisely. Wow, that's

968
00:56:45,885 --> 00:56:50,045
Speaker 1: so interesting. Yeah, I mean that the question remains, would

969
00:56:50,045 --> 00:56:53,165
Speaker 1: you rather smell like a dead man or ammonia? M

970
00:56:53,245 --> 00:56:59,085
Speaker 1: ammonia yeah, ammonia. Same. Well. I love that this entire

971
00:56:59,085 --> 00:57:03,285
Speaker 1: episode led to this one question, very important, very important,

972
00:57:03,405 --> 00:57:09,485
Speaker 1: you know, to your listener, ask yourself, would you prefer okay? Yes?

973
00:57:09,805 --> 00:57:13,525
Speaker 1: I love pondering. Well, this has been a really interesting episode.

974
00:57:13,925 --> 00:57:18,405
Speaker 1: Always fun talking about death. Woot. Thank you guys for

975
00:57:18,445 --> 00:57:23,125
Speaker 1: sharing your stories, super fun, super flirty, And thank you

976
00:57:23,485 --> 00:57:26,485
Speaker 1: dear listener for listening and for hanging out with us,

977
00:57:26,645 --> 00:57:30,645
Speaker 1: and for just learning about how fucked up things used

978
00:57:30,645 --> 00:57:36,845
Speaker 1: to be and still are. And that is the slogan goodbye.

979
00:57:50,365 --> 00:57:52,525
Speaker 1: Cadaver Gals is a production of School of Humans and

980
00:57:52,525 --> 00:57:56,005
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. It is hosted, researched, edited, et cetera

981
00:57:56,285 --> 00:58:00,165
Speaker 1: by Gabby Watts Taylor Church and you can find us

982
00:58:00,205 --> 00:58:04,725
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at Cadaver Gals. Yeah. See you

983
00:58:04,765 --> 00:58:10,605
Speaker 1: next week. Out The Border, Parker, The Border, and Parker

984
00:58:10,805 --> 00:58:11,565
Speaker 1: and the Border.