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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy. My name is Cat, I am the host,

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Speaker 1: and today is a good day to have, the day

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Speaker 1: you need to have. And before we get into anything,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to give out the quick disclaimer that yes,

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Speaker 1: this is a podcast about mental health and therapy that

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Speaker 1: is hosted by a therapist. However, it does not serve

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Speaker 1: as therapy. So now that we got that out of

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Speaker 1: the way in the beginning, we can jump into today's episode,

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Speaker 1: which we have made it to the third installment of

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Speaker 1: our little series on attachment theory and attachment styles. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do one more episode following this based off

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Speaker 1: of the questions that you guys send to me and

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Speaker 1: have sent to me about the different styles and all

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Speaker 1: of that. So we'll do one more Q and a episode,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to wrap it all up in

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Speaker 1: a imperfect weird bout. I know that I mentioned I

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Speaker 1: would do a disorganized slash fearful avoidant episode, but I

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Speaker 1: gotta be honest with you because I just need to

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Speaker 1: be I am not an expert on that style, and

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Speaker 1: I would feel way more comfortable if I had somebody

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Speaker 1: that knew more about that style here talking about it

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Speaker 1: with me. I mean, I know enough that I could

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Speaker 1: talk about it, we could have an episode on it.

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Speaker 1: But if I do an episode just on that, I

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Speaker 1: just would feel more comfortable. As somebody who preaches that

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Speaker 1: we have to be careful about the information we put

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Speaker 1: out and how we put it out, and to stay

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Speaker 1: in line with that and to stay like comfortable with

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Speaker 1: just like my own feelings, I would like to have

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Speaker 1: somebody here guiding that content. So maybe we'll do that

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Speaker 1: in the future. I can't make any promises. What I

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Speaker 1: can't promise is it's not on the calendar as of now.

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Speaker 1: And the truth is we really don't have like a

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Speaker 1: ton of re search on that, and there's tons of

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Speaker 1: research on what we've been talking about. But it feels

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Speaker 1: like I will say, for me, in my past, especially

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Speaker 1: in my training, all of the stuff about disorganized kind

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Speaker 1: of got glazed over because it was like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: so rare, and so we didn't really talk about it,

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Speaker 1: and so then it became this thing in my head.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'll never deal with it. But I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is just in my head, This is

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Speaker 1: not research, this is just like my thought. I just

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Speaker 1: think it's one of those things that is probably more

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Speaker 1: prevalent than we realize, but there isn't that much research

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Speaker 1: on it, and we don't put that much attention on it,

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Speaker 1: so it gets missed. But none of that is that

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Speaker 1: important today because that's not what we're here to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we'll go there someday in the future now, but

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Speaker 1: we are going to dive head freaking first into is

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Speaker 1: the anxious slash preoccupied adult attachment style. I know that

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Speaker 1: you guys out there I have been waiting for this

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Speaker 1: owner excited, probably have sent this to somebody because I

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Speaker 1: bet the majority of listeners that have an insecure attachment

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Speaker 1: style are anxious. And I bet those same listeners were

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Speaker 1: also excited about the avoidant episode because that describes the

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Speaker 1: people that they have found themselves dating over and over again,

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Speaker 1: which we will get there. Don't you worry so little

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Speaker 1: baby recap here. If you are like this is new

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Speaker 1: to me, what are you talking about? Pause this episode,

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Speaker 1: go to two episodes before and listen to the basics.

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Speaker 1: That's where you're going to find. What is attachment theory,

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Speaker 1: what are attachment styles? All of that? What is secure?

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Speaker 1: Why don't you talking about that because we don't. We're

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Speaker 1: just not going to right now. That felt mean to say,

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Speaker 1: But go back there and listen to that and then

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Speaker 1: come back and join us. But baby recap. For those

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Speaker 1: of you have been through this journey, we're talking about attachment,

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Speaker 1: which is the biological system in our bodies that keeps

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Speaker 1: us connected to others. And when your relational and emotional

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Speaker 1: needs are not met, we take note of that, and

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Speaker 1: if they continue to not be met, we eventually developed

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Speaker 1: strategies to shut ourselves off from need or to basically

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Speaker 1: like sloth style, attached to it. And that is my

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Speaker 1: very unclinical way of describing this. And in those two

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Speaker 1: ways that we react or respond to not get your

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Speaker 1: needs met, we develop these insecure attachment styles. We talked

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Speaker 1: about avoidant last week, and this week we're going anxious

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Speaker 1: all of the way now when it comes to anxiously

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Speaker 1: attached humans. Instead of avoidance, this person is more about preoccupation,

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Speaker 1: almost like borderline obsession. But I wouldn't technically use that word,

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Speaker 1: even though I just did use that word. So these

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Speaker 1: people have been exposed to an inconsistent attunement of their needs,

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Speaker 1: so an inconsistent experience of having their needs understood and met.

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Speaker 1: And last week I talked about hope UM and talked

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Speaker 1: about how the avoidant person just loses hope, like they

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Speaker 1: don't have the hope. The person that develops an anxious

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Speaker 1: attachment STUF, they experience a back and forth of hope

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Speaker 1: and disappointment. It comes, it goes away, It comes, it

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Speaker 1: goes away. They know that it's possible, but when they

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Speaker 1: have it, they can't really calm down because they're also

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Speaker 1: used to it being left like things just aren't consistent.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they're very well use the word in consistent.

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Speaker 1: It makes it hard for them to settle down, and

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Speaker 1: it makes it hard for them to trust. So in kids,

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Speaker 1: it will look like the mom or whatever primary caregiver

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Speaker 1: they have is there and then she's gone. She's there

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Speaker 1: and she's gone, she's present and she's meeting my needs,

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Speaker 1: and then she's all of a sudden, not why isn't

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Speaker 1: she here? I don't know. We make up stories that

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Speaker 1: it's about us because we are egocentric. And along those

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Speaker 1: same lines, parents typically look inconsistent. Sometimes they're there for them,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they're not. This can be due to like normal circumstances.

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Speaker 1: I want to reiterate what I said last week, and

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Speaker 1: I think I say it all the time, But developing

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Speaker 1: an insecure attachment style doesn't mean that your caregivers or

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Speaker 1: your parents are bad to evil people. It could mean

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. The inconsistency can be due to

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things. It doesn't mean that they

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Speaker 1: are bad parents and like don't know how to love

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Speaker 1: or aren't loving or don't care about you. It could

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Speaker 1: mean that, but it doesn't necessarily have to mean that.

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Speaker 1: So it can be a result of the caregiver that

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Speaker 1: suffered from their own mental health issues. Maybe mom was

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Speaker 1: in and out of treatment, Maybe parents were sick for

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Speaker 1: in some other physical way, or maybe they had a

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Speaker 1: job that was back and forth, or maybe they themselves

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Speaker 1: had their own anxiety. So what happens is our attachment

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Speaker 1: system gets activated when we perceive a threat to our connection,

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Speaker 1: and when we perceive a threat to our connection, we

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Speaker 1: engage in attachment activating behaviors. Those are called protest behaviors.

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Speaker 1: If a child feels like they're not getting their needs met,

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Speaker 1: they'll start doing these protest behaviors, signaling for somebody to

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Speaker 1: come and attune to their needs. That could be whining, crying, scanning, clinging,

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Speaker 1: And if this goes well, if the caregiver comes back

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Speaker 1: and and it tunes to them, they stick with that

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Speaker 1: secure attachment system. If it doesn't go well, over and

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Speaker 1: over and over again, they will form an insecure attachment.

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Speaker 1: So in a normal, healthy adult human you can have

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Speaker 1: these protest behaviors, they will protest when the parent leads,

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Speaker 1: But in an insecure, anxious attached person with their experiences,

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Speaker 1: they can't be calmed down even when those protest behaviors

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Speaker 1: are met, because it's so inconsistent that they have met

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Speaker 1: or that they are met. So it looks a little

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Speaker 1: funny in children in this mirrors and adulthood because they

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Speaker 1: will go to the parent, but when they go to

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Speaker 1: the parent, they're still not soothed because they are unsure

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Speaker 1: that the parent will be they're moving forward. They just

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Speaker 1: lose a lot of trust in their safety. They can't relax,

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Speaker 1: and they create this I better hang onto this else

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose you. Clinger experience and and adults, this

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Speaker 1: is like the stage five Clinger situation, and it gives

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Speaker 1: a lot of empathy. It lends a lot of empathy

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Speaker 1: for the stage five clingers because often it is due

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Speaker 1: to this, and it's not that they are actually crazy.

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Speaker 1: They are actually taking the experiences they have had and

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Speaker 1: making sense of them, and it's a way for them

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Speaker 1: to not feel distress. But it looks crazy from the

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Speaker 1: outside now. A lot of times, what you'll also find

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Speaker 1: in these children is that the parents are also fearful

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Speaker 1: in their parenting styles, and the child can feel that.

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Speaker 1: So the child can feel the doubt, and then the

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Speaker 1: child becomes preoccupied with the parents instability. They can't relax,

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Speaker 1: and now they will be taken care of because they

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Speaker 1: can tell that the parents are unsure and things are

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Speaker 1: up in the air. And last week I used the

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Speaker 1: example of the in an avoidant attached person like their

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Speaker 1: parents like don't really know what's going on to that

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Speaker 1: with them. So like this kid is the kind of

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Speaker 1: kid who would look out in the crowd to see

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Speaker 1: if dad would show up, and he gets let down again.

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Speaker 1: But then sometimes he's there, and sometimes he's not in

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Speaker 1: somebody's there or he says he's going to be there,

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Speaker 1: and then he doesn't show up again. And then if

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Speaker 1: he is there, he keeps looking. If he's like a

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Speaker 1: baseball game, like every time he runs out to the field,

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Speaker 1: he looks in the crowd again to make sure Dad's

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Speaker 1: still still there. It's not like, oh, I know Dad

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Speaker 1: is here, versus an avoidance not looking out in the

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Speaker 1: crowd because Dad probably doesn't even know I have a game.

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Speaker 1: Now in adults, let's talk about adults, because that's what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about today. This translates to the kind of person.

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Speaker 1: And I hate saying this, but I alluded to it

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Speaker 1: like a minute ago. Translate to the kind of person. Also,

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Speaker 1: this sounds unprofessional, so just sit with me in this.

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Speaker 1: They're the kind of person that outsiders say acts crazy crazy,

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Speaker 1: very clinical term. However, I will say the same person

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Speaker 1: that calls someone else crazy, and it's like, oh, they're

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Speaker 1: acting crazy, they look crazy, they're crazy quite possibly maybe

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Speaker 1: doing the same things to themselves. They just lack self awareness,

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Speaker 1: so we might want to not call people crazy. What

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Speaker 1: is cool about anxiously attached individuals is they have like

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Speaker 1: a sixth sense. They can tell something that is off

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Speaker 1: before anybody else. They are hyper vigilant. They can scan

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Speaker 1: and identify when things seem off, and it would be

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Speaker 1: an awesome superpower to have. But what they lack as

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Speaker 1: emotional regulation, so they lack the emotional regulation connected to

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Speaker 1: the fear that might appear when they notice that something

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Speaker 1: is off, so they react instead of respond to this awfulness,

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Speaker 1: and they do this way too quickly, and they make

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Speaker 1: gross assumptions. And that's one of the main issues with

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Speaker 1: somebody who has an anxious attachment style, because it's not

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Speaker 1: that they're wrong all the time. They might be right

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Speaker 1: that something's off, but they make assumptions based off of

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Speaker 1: that that a lot of times are not true, and

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Speaker 1: then they act in a way that while they're trying

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Speaker 1: to pull in closeness, pushes people away and romantic relationships.

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Speaker 1: It can look, why aren't they texting me? Over analyzing

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Speaker 1: every single text and interaction, constantly seeking a way to

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Speaker 1: be calmed down, but nothing sticks because something else is

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Speaker 1: always popping up because humans are imperfect and sometimes we

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Speaker 1: just like miss things, and they read way too much

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Speaker 1: into the missing and they do a lot of information seeking.

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Speaker 1: So here's the truth? Where only as needy as our

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Speaker 1: unmet needs. So some of an anxious attachment system has

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Speaker 1: an overactive attachment system, But it doesn't mean that their

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Speaker 1: need is not appropriate. Maybe their needs aren't being met

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Speaker 1: so then they over activate this attachment system to get connection,

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Speaker 1: they seek soothing through others. Why an avoidant person is

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Speaker 1: going to seek soothing through themselves, and then a secure

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Speaker 1: person uses a nice little combination. And what's really hard

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Speaker 1: and frustrating is that someone who has an overactivated attachment

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Speaker 1: system uses behaviors that we do call activating strategies in

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Speaker 1: order to find a maintained attachment. Yet it actually does

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Speaker 1: the opposite. Like I said earlier, So while an avoidant

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Speaker 1: person engages in deactivating strategies in order to detach from

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Speaker 1: their attachment system, and anxious person is going to engage

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Speaker 1: in activating strategies in order to gain attachment. And activating

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Speaker 1: strategies are thoughts or feelings that attempt to bring closeness,

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Speaker 1: and I think of them as like magical thinking. He

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Speaker 1: or she can change or making excuses for behavior, minimizing

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Speaker 1: situations or red flags. So when the threat to connection

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Speaker 1: is perceived, the anxiously attached human being will engage in

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Speaker 1: these activating strategies. Again, thoughts or feelings that are created

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Speaker 1: in an attempt to re establish connection or closeness when

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Speaker 1: it feels like there's a threat to the loss of it,

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Speaker 1: and then once the person responds to those activating strategies,

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Speaker 1: they'll re establish their security and they can go back

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Speaker 1: to being their normal selves, but not far long. There's

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Speaker 1: a constant loop and anxiously attached human beings. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about some examples of activating strategies. And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to pull these from that same book that we talked

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Speaker 1: about last time, Attached, So the authors Heller and Living

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Speaker 1: list these as some basics examples, So thinking about your

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Speaker 1: partner constantly and having a difficult time concentrating on anything else,

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Speaker 1: remembering only their good qualities, ignoring red flags you know,

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Speaker 1: um and putting them on a pedestal, so making them

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Speaker 1: um higher than you and under estimating your worthiness even

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Speaker 1: but like your talents and abilities, and then overestimating there

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Speaker 1: like they're they're greater than they really are. It's almost

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Speaker 1: like they elevate to another dimension, like they're less human

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Speaker 1: than the rest of us. And then having this anxious

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Speaker 1: feeling that only goes away when you're in contact with them.

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Speaker 1: And this is another thing that somebody with an anxious

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Speaker 1: attachment system lives in, this idea that this is like

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Speaker 1: the only chance you have to make it. And while

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Speaker 1: somebody with an avoidant attachment is always looking for somebody better,

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Speaker 1: the anxious person is like, this is the one this

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Speaker 1: is my one chance that my soulmate. I have to

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Speaker 1: make it work, like having a scarcity mindset, and then

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Speaker 1: like minimizing like I said, like saying things like all

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Speaker 1: couples have problems, everybody has problems, or having the idea

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Speaker 1: that they can change, you can almost like wishfully convince

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Speaker 1: yourself that you are seeing little changes in them when

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Speaker 1: like nothing is actually changing. Now. Earlier I mentioned in

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Speaker 1: kids that protest behaviors and those being a way to

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Speaker 1: re establish connection to a parent, and that protest behavior

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Speaker 1: is not the issue. It's the amount of protest behaviors

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Speaker 1: and if we can be calmed after the protest behaviors,

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Speaker 1: so it is something that lets the caregiver no, I'm

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Speaker 1: not okay, I need you, and then the caregiver can

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Speaker 1: respond to that. Now an adults, protest behavior has become

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Speaker 1: kind of the same thing, an attempt to display up

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Speaker 1: unhappiness and signal this idea that I need you, so

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Speaker 1: the partner can respond to that. And depending on what

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Speaker 1: kind of protest behaviors, some can be more healthy than others.

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Speaker 1: And what I want you to know, and that is

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Speaker 1: that just a protest behavior in itself is not unhealthier pathological.

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Speaker 1: But when you have an anxious attachment, it becomes constant

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Speaker 1: and all consuming because they can't be soothed. So it's

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Speaker 1: so frequent that their protest behaviors, which are attempts to

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Speaker 1: re establish connection, end up driving their partners away. So

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Speaker 1: the same people Helen Leaving have a good list of

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Speaker 1: these as well. So and you guys are gonna be like,

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Speaker 1: oh I do that. You're gonna do some of these,

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Speaker 1: but it's the amount and if these things actually soothe

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Speaker 1: you for an appropriate amount of time, calling, texting, waiting

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Speaker 1: for phone calls, driving by where they are, or waiting

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Speaker 1: for them outside of places to to run into them.

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Speaker 1: Protest behaviors, keeping score, so paying attention to like how

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Speaker 1: long it took for them to call back, or how

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Speaker 1: many times they texted you first or you texted them first.

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Speaker 1: This one withdrawing, I like to say, and I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I got this from my therapist. You can't withdraw your

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Speaker 1: way to connection. So withdrawing a protest behavior might be

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Speaker 1: like turning your back to what your partner, or saying

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Speaker 1: I'm fine and then really as an attempt for them

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Speaker 1: to come and ask what's wrong, but you're actually not.

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Speaker 1: It's a little backwards that is really backwards, and the

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Speaker 1: backfires often threatening to leave, So making threats an attempt

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Speaker 1: for them to say no, don't leave me. Or manipulation

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Speaker 1: in the four of acting busy, ignoring phone calls like

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Speaker 1: I said, like to withdraw my way to connection it

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Speaker 1: doesn't actually work, or trying to make them feel jealous. Right,

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Speaker 1: So that could be a bunch of different ways, whether

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Speaker 1: it's dropping hints about other people, commenting or liking on

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Speaker 1: your Instagram post, saying that an X reached out to you,

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Speaker 1: or that somebody did express interest to you or something

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Speaker 1: like that. And again, what somebody with an anxious attachment

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Speaker 1: system doesn't realize is that the questions that they're constantly

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Speaker 1: asking in their behaviors, that they're constantly behaving in or

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Speaker 1: using their attempts to pull somebody in, what they're doing

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Speaker 1: is they're pushing people away and in their heads like

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Speaker 1: I got to hold on as tight as possible because

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Speaker 1: if this person leaves, I don't know when they're come back.

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Speaker 1: But what somebody is feeling is suffocated, especially someone with

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Speaker 1: an avoidant attachment, which is very often who these people

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Speaker 1: end up dating. Why you ask, let's talk about that.

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Speaker 1: So avoidant and anxiously attached humans, people with an avoidant

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Speaker 1: attachment style or an anxious attachment style mirror each other's

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Speaker 1: needs and that's why they are drawn to each other.

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Speaker 1: Dating someone with the insecure attachment makes your attachment more

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Speaker 1: solid in its own. Insecurity, you deepen the lesson you've

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Speaker 1: already learned, and that's why you're attracted to them. We

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Speaker 1: go to what we know. The avoidant believes people are

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Speaker 1: too needy. The anxious believes people will leave me. The

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Speaker 1: avoidant leave people. The anxious overseas through others and appears

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Speaker 1: to needy. So they're like the perfect match, but the

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Speaker 1: most imperfect match at the same time. And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to take this moment. I feel like I'm about to

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Speaker 1: give an ad like a p s A. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to take a moment and insert a little conversation talk

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Speaker 1: chit chat about why I often express that I do

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Speaker 1: not like most will use the word most Dating and

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Speaker 1: Relationship Coaches. If you are an avid listener of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're like, yes, we know this cat. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much I've really talked about why,

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Speaker 1: so let's get into it. Sometimes, dating advice basically advocates

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Speaker 1: for you to date an avoidant partner. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you've heard of this book, but a long

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Speaker 1: time ago, my friend recommended me to read this book

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Speaker 1: called Why Men Love Bitches. I think I was in

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Speaker 1: my mid early twenties. I was in my early twenties,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know how popular this book is now.

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Speaker 1: Ten years ago, I guess it was like a hot item,

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Speaker 1: and so my friend recommended me read it. I was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: I want a relationship, let me get this book. And

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Speaker 1: I got a couple of chapters in probably and there

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Speaker 1: was some part about like something about cooking dinner, and

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what the book said, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, this is so screwed up. I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to say something else, but this is so screwed up.

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Speaker 1: So I stopped reading it and I gave the book

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Speaker 1: to Goodwill when I moved two years ago. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I still had it. That's a whole other too,

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I got a couple of chapters in and

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is like physically and emotionally disturbing,

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Speaker 1: and for one, this book was telling me to get

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Speaker 1: a partner, I had to basically not be myself and

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Speaker 1: too well, actually I don't even think I need a

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Speaker 1: number two. I could come up with one, but I

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Speaker 1: mean that was enough, right, Like, no way in hell

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Speaker 1: am I going to find a partner by turning into

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Speaker 1: this mean and calculated human that is like every move

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Speaker 1: I make is a way to manipulate this person into

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Speaker 1: liking me. It just feels so disgusting and wrong. And

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Speaker 1: dating advice and coaches they often give you tips and

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Speaker 1: rules to use to help you get the guy or girl,

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Speaker 1: But I need people to hear this. By showing up

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Speaker 1: and pretending to be someone that you're not, you're allowing

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Speaker 1: someone else to be with you based on their terms,

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Speaker 1: not yours. You give away all your power, and you

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Speaker 1: give away all of the ability for you to get

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Speaker 1: your needs met. And you're basically basing a relationship on

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Speaker 1: meeting somebody else's needs. And I will give the caveat that.

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Speaker 1: Sure there might be good dating advice, and sure there

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Speaker 1: might be good dating and relationship coaches out there. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know many of them. I haven't seen many

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Speaker 1: of them, and and I just think we need to

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Speaker 1: be aware of this because we all want help. And

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Speaker 1: I think the people that follow that advice and follow

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Speaker 1: that stuff, they're not bad people and you're not looking

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Speaker 1: for something bad, but it can be really dangerous. And

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Speaker 1: I just have a heart for like not causing more

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Speaker 1: harm than good. And you might be saying cat like

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Speaker 1: it works. Sometimes people get in relationships using these tips

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Speaker 1: and like, totally, yeah, it could happen. There's exceptions to rules,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Life is not black and white. But if

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Speaker 1: the way you got someone, I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: said it, like that got someone, see, it's like, well

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Speaker 1: it's a game, like I captured them. Anyway, if the

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Speaker 1: way you ended up in a relationship was through playing

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Speaker 1: a game and being someone that you're not, it's eventually

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Speaker 1: going to backfire. And I find it's going to backfire

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Speaker 1: in two main ways. One, when you start to show

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Speaker 1: up as yourself, it's going to screw up the system

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Speaker 1: that you've created, and your avoidant partner is going to

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Speaker 1: leave you and you lose right, Like all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you show up with needs and you start like actually

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Speaker 1: texting them when you want, They're gonna like, who is

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Speaker 1: this person that actually wants to talk to me? I

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Speaker 1: gotta this doesn't work for me. What worked for me

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Speaker 1: is when you were distant and actually like you didn't

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Speaker 1: like me, so I felt safe, so I liked you,

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Speaker 1: Or you pretend to be someone else and you lose

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Speaker 1: because isn't that miserable in itself? If you never start

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Speaker 1: to show up as yourself, then like, then you're just

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Speaker 1: losing all the time. You're never going to end up

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Speaker 1: getting your needs met here, and that deepens this belief

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Speaker 1: that like, your needs are too much, that you're too needy,

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Speaker 1: and you're not too needy. Let me remind you that

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Speaker 1: you're as needy as your unmet needs. And this goes

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Speaker 1: back to how we've been talking about the fact that

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Speaker 1: both insecure attachment systems styles avoidance and anxious are afraid

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Speaker 1: of the same thing, rejection and abandonment. They are just

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Speaker 1: going about their attempt to avoid this in different ways.

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Speaker 1: The anxious attachment style human they're hyperactivation there. Why haven't

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Speaker 1: you texted me? Is an exaggeration of a very normal

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Speaker 1: response of needing love and connection. This is one of

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Speaker 1: those like activating strategies in a head that might turn

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Speaker 1: into a protest behavior of like texting them seventy five

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Speaker 1: times or not texting them at all at all to

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Speaker 1: see if they ever respond to them. These people are

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Speaker 1: not aware that they're pushing people away because their attempts

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Speaker 1: to create connection comes out and looks desperate and looks

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Speaker 1: like desperation. Really, these people are saying inside their system,

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Speaker 1: I feel so abandoned and rejected. But they don't know

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Speaker 1: how to just be honest and ask for their needs,

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Speaker 1: especially because the bitch book is telling us that to

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Speaker 1: get a relationship, we're supposed to act like we don't

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Speaker 1: care about the other person. What the hell is that?

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Speaker 1: It sounds crazy The way to get a relationship and

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Speaker 1: the way to find connections to act like you don't

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Speaker 1: care and you don't want it. You don't find a

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Speaker 1: healthy relationship by making your partner feel like you don't

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Speaker 1: care about them. Like, think about that for a second,

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Speaker 1: and some of you are like, yeah, we know, we

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Speaker 1: don't like this either, Like, but then we have people

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Speaker 1: telling us that that's the way. It's not the way.

431
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: So what these people really need to self soothing behaviors right,

432
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: because they think I have to have you, want to

433
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: have to have you now to be soothed, and they're

434
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: not soothed when they do have you because in waiting

435
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: for you to leave now, we talked about what kind

436
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: of client this would be last week in an avoidance,

437
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: So what kind of therapy client is this? What kind

438
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: of therapy client is the anxious attachment style? And first

439
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: of all, they are the most common kind. They are

440
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 1: the ones that are more likely to come to therapy

441
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: and to come to therapy on their own. They're also

442
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: the client that loves therapy, and they ask a lot

443
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: of questions like what do I do? Or what should

444
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: I say? They want the therapist to tell them everything.

445
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: They don't trust themselves, and you know how to avoidant

446
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: like the therapist like me, I become like an annoyance

447
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: or a bother to them. The therapist doesn't become a

448
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: bother to them because they are afraid that they bother

449
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: the therapist. So they ask questions like are you going

450
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: to fire me if I don't do blank? Or they

451
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: always want to know do you like me? They really

452
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 1: care about what the therapist thinks about them. It's also

453
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: hard for them to believe that we don't think they're

454
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: crazy like that, the anxiously attached person gets sent the

455
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: message more like you're crazy, you're acting crazy, you're crazy.

456
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: So then they think they're crazy and they sometime him

457
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: know some of the behaviors make them feel crazy, while

458
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: the avoidance think everyone else in their life is crazy.

459
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: And when it really boils down to all of this,

460
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: we're dealing with fear here. Remember our attachment system is

461
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: highly activated by emotions, specifically fear, and this person has

462
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: an over activated, unregulated fear of being alone. They think

463
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: I won't be okay if I get left. And there's

464
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: also the scarcity belief here. I talked about this earlier,

465
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: the scarcity belief that there aren't enough people. I won't

466
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: find anyone else, while avoidance think there has to be

467
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: someone better out there for me. They just assume you're

468
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: not going to come back. They need constant connection, constant attention,

469
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: constant validation. And there's people that assume if I don't

470
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: hold this together, it's going to fall apart. So how

471
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: should we encourage these people to move towards security and

472
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: one through secure relationships? But what we want to encourage

473
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: somebody with an anxious attachment system. Now this is very difficult.

474
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: It's not as easy as it sounds coming out of

475
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: my mouth, but we want to encourage them to move

476
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: from vigilant to the outside. It's stuff like what everybody

477
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: else like, scanning whatever else needs. So you then change

478
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: your behaviors based on those things in order to not

479
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: get people to walk away or leave. You're walking on

480
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: eggshells to vigilant inside. So focusing more on what I need,

481
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: what I want, and asking for that in an appropriate way.

482
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: We need these people to be a little bit more

483
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: selfish rather than self less, because the selflessness doesn't actually

484
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: get your needs met. And that's part of the reason

485
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: we're constantly in the cycle of trying to get our

486
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: needs met. And they need to hear like, you don't

487
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: have to be all easy breezy, because it is the

488
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: attempt to be easy breezy that makes you feel a

489
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: little crazy because you're not easy breezy. You have needs.

490
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: You're as needy as your unmet need. And it's our

491
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: job to realize that when we are having this like

492
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: overactive attachment, we're having an exaggerated reaction. Just because you're

493
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: feeling something doesn't mean something has to be done right.

494
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: So when I have that sixth sense and I'm like

495
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: something's off, doesn't mean I have to act. The world

496
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 1: is probably safer than you feel it is. Somebody with

497
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: an avoidant attachment style is more likely to go on

498
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: dates looking for ways to make the other person like

499
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: them before they even decide if they like that person.

500
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: And I want to flip flop that. So we have

501
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: to start asking ourselves, what are we attracted to in

502
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: this person? How is this person going to be able

503
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: to show up for me? How isn't this person going

504
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: to be able to show up for me? And is

505
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: that a deal breaker? Okay, if you start to see

506
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: red flags when you're dating, or if you're in a

507
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: friendship or even at a job, the best thing you

508
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: can do for your attachment system and to move towards

509
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: security is to back away. And if you want some

510
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: help learning how to spot an avoidantly attached person, go

511
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: to the episode from last week. But these people again

512
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: go back to those activating strategies and we minimize things,

513
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: and we use magical thinking, and we stay in these

514
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: relationships that deepen our insecurity and deepen our insecure attachment.

515
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: The best thing you can do in order to find

516
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: is successful and caring and loving and healthy relationship is

517
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: to actually just be yourself. It's one can't meet your needs.

518
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: A securely attached person can say like, Okay, this sucks,

519
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: but this isn't gonna work. And I think that comes

520
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: from this idea that they don't have the idea that

521
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: there is only one person out there. And they also

522
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: don't have the idea that there's perfection either. So the

523
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: best thing you can do to find a secure, healthy relationship, loving,

524
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: carey relationship is be yourself. So in secure attachment, as

525
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: someone can't meet your needs, that person can say this sucks,

526
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: but this isn't going to work out because this person

527
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: knows and believes that there isn't just one person out

528
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: there that that will love them. They have more of

529
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: an abundance mindset when it comes to relationships, not that

530
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: there's like a million people and they can have a

531
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: million partners. This goes more to it the avoid but

532
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: they believe that there isn't just one out there that's

533
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: gonna ever love them or give them attention. They believe

534
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: that connection is available to them. What I want somebody

535
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: with an anxious attachment style to hear today is that

536
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: not everyone's relationship and relational needs are compatible with yours,

537
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: and that's okay. That doesn't mean that you're not worthy

538
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: of love and connection. That is just a sentence and

539
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: we can put a period at the end of it.

540
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you're too needy, doesn't mean that you

541
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: are too unneedy. It just means that your relationship needs

542
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: are not compatible with that person, and there will be

543
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: somebody else. So I want to go back to this

544
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: idea that I'm sure I've said in one of these episodes,

545
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: but the most important thing in re establishing a secure

546
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: attachment system are the relationships that we can develop moving forward,

547
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: and the idea that it's not so much what happened

548
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: to you. It matters, and it's important to look at

549
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: what we do with what happened to us. So it

550
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what happened to you. It matters what you

551
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: do with that experience. It's not whether or not there

552
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: is trauma, it's if that trauma has been processed. Because

553
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: to an extent, we all have some kind of trauma,

554
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: and relational trauma especially, So it's what do I do

555
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,479
Speaker 1: with these past experience inances that have shown me X

556
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: Do I make them the rule or do I look

557
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: at the other experiences that I might have. Because to

558
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: grow and deepen our sense of security, we heal in relationships.

559
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: We have to be in relationships to shift our attachment

560
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: to a more secure attachment something that I love. I

561
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: really can't remember if I said this last week, so

562
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it again. But it's a quote

563
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: from Dan Siegel, who wrote this book Mind Site, which

564
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: is really good and talks about attachment and that in

565
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: the neurobiology of all of it. But he said, if

566
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: you can make sense of your attachment wound, you have

567
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: a better chance of not continuing the narrative. We are

568
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: meaning making people, so we create internal narratives. In order

569
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: to create change, we first must find awareness of the problem.

570
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: This is cat talking. That's what we're doing today. Back

571
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: to the quote. Then create a new understanding of what happened,

572
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: and then new experiences can create a new narrative. Having

573
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: difficult experiences early in life is less important than whether

574
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: we found a way to make sense of how those

575
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 1: experiences have affected us. Making sense is a sore of

576
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: strength and resilience. Making sense is essential to our well

577
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: being and happiness. And I think that's so important because

578
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: what we're doing, and I say this a lot like

579
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: awareness is awesome. But now that we have the awareness,

580
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: we have to do something with it. We have to

581
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 1: create new narratives. We have to create new experiences and

582
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: match those experiences with new narratives. And a lot of

583
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: times what we do when we have an anxious attachment

584
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: system is we're in a new experience, but we're matching

585
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: it with an old narrative. And that is a recipe

586
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: for a disaster. Now, I think it's worth being said

587
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: for talking about adult romantic relationships. I mean, I guess

588
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: that this really does go to any kind of relationships.

589
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: But what I do want to say is that healthy,

590
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: secure relationships are going to end up feeling very boring,

591
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: very boring, because you don't have to engage in all

592
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: of this like chaos, and your template or your baseline

593
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: for normalcy is way off or health, your baseline for

594
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: health is way off. So someone with a secure relationship

595
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: is going to have a baseline for health that makes sense,

596
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: and somebody with an anxious attachment your baseline for health

597
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: is like where a secure person's chaos would be so

598
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: chaos feels normal and healthy to you. It's what you know, right,

599
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: you move to what you know, You go to what

600
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: you know, So relationships that are healthy are gonna feel boring.

601
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: You don't have to engage in all of this. So

602
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: you're like, do they even like me? I don't even

603
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: like them? This is boring, This is not exciting. I

604
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: need more excitement my relationship. There just wasn't any passion.

605
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: And then you get in this like anxious avoidant trap

606
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: where the anxious person and the avoidant person are constantly

607
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: going back. If you're one of the people are like,

608
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: why do I keep finding these people? Is because you

609
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: go towards what feels normal, and what feels normal actually

610
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: is chaos, and what feels healthy or what is healthy

611
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: and what is calm feels very boring. So it takes

612
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 1: two willing individuals to create actual healthy intimacy, and you

613
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: have to find all individual And if there's a willing

614
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: individual in front of you, they're not going to be

615
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: playing all of these games. So you're not going to

616
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: be jumping over hoops, and your arousal template isn't going

617
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: to be as activated because your arousal template is way

618
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: off So if I could leave you guys with anything,

619
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: if you're like, I want healthy attachment, how do I

620
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: know how to find it? One clear indicator is that

621
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: you might be bored. And I know you guys don't

622
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: love that, but it is. It is what it is.

623
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: Is that what the kids say. That's what I'm saying.

624
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: It is what it is. You might have to be

625
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: bored for a little bit, let yourself attach and then

626
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: see what it feels like. So here we are. That

627
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: is where I'm going to wrap up this episode. That's

628
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: where I'm gonna wrap up the adult anxious attachment style episode.

629
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 1: I hope that this gave you some good insight that

630
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: you needed. And if you have questions, remember send them

631
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: to Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com and

632
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: I will try to answer those on Wednesday, So send

633
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: them right away. If you're listening to this later in

634
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: the week, you can still send your questions. I'm just

635
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: going to do an actual couch Talks episode on attachment

636
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. Have the day you guys need to have.

637
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I will talk to you guys on Wednesday