1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Can't. I am six forty. 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 2: You're listening to the John Cobelt Podcast on the iHeartRadio app. 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: It's the John Cobelt Show. 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: We're on every day from one until four o'clock and 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 2: every day after four o'clock. Whatever you miss you can 6 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: get on the podcast John Cobelt's Show on demand that's 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: on the iHeart app. We have a tremendous amount to 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: do and I want to get right into it because 9 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: we've got a special guest today. Jay Baticharia is the 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: new director of the National Institutes of Health, replacing Anthony Fauci. 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: We had him on the show you back in the 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:41,959 Speaker 2: twenty twenty era when COVID broke, because Babicharia was one 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: of the few prominent voices at the time who said, wait, wait, 14 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: we don't have to lock all society down here. It's 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: going to damage people's mental health, physical health, children's educations, 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: not to mention what it did to the economy. And 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: he was vilified, criticized, centered online, I mean, you name it. 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: He had to deal with it. Turned out he was right, 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: the rest of them are wrong, and now he's running 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: the National Institutes of Health. Let's get doctor Jay about 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: a charry on right now, doctor, how are you? 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 3: I'm doing well. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: throw this talk with you. 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: Oh it's great to have you on. And I mean 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: I followed you every day, what you were saying, what 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: you were talking about, the conferences you were chairing and 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: contributing to publicly, and I couldn't believe the amount of abuse 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: you had to take. You're you're pretty tough, You're very strong. 29 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: Most people would have folded up, and you turned out 30 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 2: to be right at the end. How do you feel 31 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: about all that now? You know five years later? Uh? 32 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: What's your your like? Your emotions? A sense of vidication, 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: A sense of sorrow that it had to. 34 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: Come to that. 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 3: It's more sorrow than vindication, honestly, John, because I think, Uh, 36 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 3: I mean, the reason I spoke up is because I 37 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 3: was a kind of an unique position. I was a 38 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 3: tenured professor at a major university, and I I sort 39 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 3: of saw what was coming on the arms to when 40 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 3: the schools closed. I knew that our kids were going 41 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: to be years behind. There was gonna be depressed, and 42 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 3: they're going to be anxious. I knew that when when 43 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 3: the economy shut down, that there'd be vast numbers of 44 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 3: working class people that would be would be harmed. When 45 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 3: I when they hid did those vaccine mandates, I knew. 46 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 3: I knew it was going to really damage our ability 47 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: to actually get people confident about other vaccines that do 48 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 3: work so much better. And I knew a lot of 49 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: people are going to lose their jobs for nothing. And 50 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: I really wish that we've been able to be more 51 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 3: successful and actually getting people to change their minds about 52 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: this earlier. I mean, it is nice to be I'm hoping. 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: That's the nice thing about being the head of the 54 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 3: NIH now is that I'm hoping that we can move 55 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 3: things in a better direction because there's so much good 56 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: that science can do, has done and will do for 57 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 3: the health and well being of so many people. But 58 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 3: I really wish that we had had taken a different 59 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: tack during the pandemic in terms of the policy, because 60 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 3: what we did definitely didn't work, and it's really crushed 61 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: the confidence that people have in science to do good 62 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 3: for people. 63 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: I guess what really surprised disappointed me was these are 64 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: the smart people. These were the smart men and women 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: who I thought would have a tempered, wiser approach, and 66 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: it seemed they were as hysterical as anybody else at 67 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: that time and engaged in a lot of group think, 68 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: whereas your profession normally runs on somebody discovers something and 69 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 2: everybody goes, Okay, that's interesting. Now let's replicate it, and 70 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: let's replicate it again, and let's discuss this and debate this. 71 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: And that was a great function that the science community, 72 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: the medical community provided, and suddenly it was just wild 73 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: eye hysteria and people getting shouted down and shut down 74 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: and called names, and it's like, oh my god, if 75 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: this crowd has lost it, we're doomed here. 76 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's something to that, Sean. I mean, 77 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: the thing is science, if it's done right, it relies 78 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: on debate, It relies on free speech, It relies on 79 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 3: people disagreeing with each other. You know, like if you 80 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: have an idea and I have a different idea, we 81 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: we both together design and experiment, and the experiment goes 82 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 3: your way, then we you know, we like shake hands, 83 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 3: you buy you dinner, and then like we move on 84 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 3: to the next debate. That's science supposed to work. What 85 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: I learned during the pandemic was it, I guess, is 86 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: that maybe this shouldn't have surprised me. Scientists are human too. 87 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: There are a lot of a lot of motivations. There's fear, 88 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 3: of course, of of of of of of dying that 89 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: I think played a role. There were like, you know, 90 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 3: people wanted to they were like people that made a 91 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: lot of money. They were like just human motivations. That 92 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 3: drove a lot of the discussion UH in science, and 93 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 3: it the structures of science which normally rewards UH replication 94 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: of ideas, replication of of of results independent UH, independent 95 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 3: arrival of the same the same results from different points 96 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: of view debate. All that went by the wayside, and 97 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 3: it really revealed the sort of an ugly, ugly side 98 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 3: of science that that I think, if it's were to continue, 99 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: would be really bad for society. I think for me 100 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: that's one of the most fun things about being the 101 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: Anite structor is I get to help fix that. I 102 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: get to help bring in bring back maybe the kind 103 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 3: of kind of approach to science that emphasizes exactly what 104 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 3: you just said, John, like rational debate, a real focus 105 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 3: on on rigor, you know, sort of elevating people who 106 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: who are checking each other's work and elevating ideas rather 107 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 3: than having authority rule what's true and false. Instead it's 108 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 3: scientific reality ruling what's true and false. 109 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was public ostracization that was ruling things. You know, 110 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: I imagine it was really scary for a lot of 111 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 2: people to speak yet, And I tell you, you know, 112 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 2: because I have I do the show every day, a 113 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: lot of articles about science and studies and I want 114 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: to talk about them. And now since COVID and the 115 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: politicization of a lot of the research, I look at 116 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: the studies and I think, well, all right, what am 117 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 2: I looking at? How do I trust this? How are 118 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: you going to bring back the trust that people used 119 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: to have? Uh in in in medicine and in science 120 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: in general. 121 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: The key, the key thing is just because it's published 122 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 3: doesn't mean it's true, even if it's published in a 123 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: fancy places. I mean, you know, that was known actually 124 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 3: long before COVID. Like, just just because you have a 125 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: scientific idea published by a very prominent person in a 126 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: in a very you know, sort of high place, that 127 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: doesn't mean it's true. Truth in science is determined by 128 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: independent replication. Other people check your idea, and they do 129 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 3: they find the same thing using different methods? Do they 130 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: does the idea generalized beyond the narrow population that you were. 131 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 3: The original paper looked at. It's repeated examination, tests experiment 132 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: of the same kinds of idea, the same idea, finding 133 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: the same answer. That's how we determine whether things are 134 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 3: true or false in science. So that's what I'm trying 135 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 3: to do through the NIH is have that kind of 136 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 3: attitude of repeated examination of the same idea replication be 137 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: the basis for truth in science. And if we get 138 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: to that, people will trust science because it's not you know, 139 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: I'm a fancy ani extractor. I say it's true, therefore 140 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 3: it's true. No one should think that way. Instead, it's well, 141 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 3: I have this idea, and other people when they look 142 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: at the same try to test the same idea, they 143 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: tend to find the same thing as me. Even though 144 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 3: they may disagree with me about a million other things, 145 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: they find the same thing as me. That's how we 146 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 3: get back to public trust and science. The other thing 147 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: is we have to make sure that science actually focuses 148 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 3: on things that manner that really matter for people's lives. 149 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: A lot of times science has gone off in directions 150 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: where you know, it's frankly ideological or as you said, 151 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: like you sort of sort of group think and instead 152 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: what if And this is what I'm trying to do 153 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 3: with the nih IS. We have to focus the efforts 154 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: of the nih on the problems that people actually have 155 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: and help them solve them. Right, That's really what the 156 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: Moham movement is about, Right, make America healthy again, because 157 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: Americans aren't healthy. Science has failed. The US life expectancy 158 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 3: has not increased since twenty twelve. They have to figure 159 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: out ways to translate that translate the real scientific dances 160 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: that have been made into things that matter for people's lives, 161 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 3: so they can address the you know, the obesity problem, 162 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: can address the hypertension, heart disease, all these problems in childhood, childhood, crime, diseases. 163 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: You know, it's like, you know, huge levels of depression 164 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 3: and anxiety, and then of course childhood obesity in a 165 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: whole host of the problems, high rates of autism. We 166 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 3: have to be able to address all of these problems 167 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: and makes science really work for people. But that's how 168 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: we get trusted back. 169 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 2: All right, hold on, We're going to talk to doctor j. 170 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: Batticheria for another segment here. He is the new director 171 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: of the National Institutes of Health replacing Anthony Fauci. More 172 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: coming up with doctor Badicheria coming up next. 173 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 4: You're listening to John Cobelt on demand from KFI AM 174 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 4: six forty. 175 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 2: We continue our conversation with doctor j Baticharia. He is 176 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: the new National Institute of Health director, replacing Anthony Fauci, 177 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 2: a former Stanford professor who was very outspoken, saying that 178 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: many of the policies that was instituted at the state 179 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 2: and national level regarding COVID restrictions were unnecessary, to say 180 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 2: the least, and actually, as we know now, quite damaging. 181 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: Doctor. Let me ask you this. 182 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we all know about all the sins that 183 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: have been committed in the damage that was done. Here's 184 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: what I recall from that time is everybody felt powerless. 185 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: We all felt bullied and ganged up on. And to 186 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: find out that many of the things we were bullied 187 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: about they were wrong, is really kind of scary, you know. 188 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: I mean, we had we have a La County Public 189 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: Health director here who just you know, laterally shut down 190 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: all the outdoor restaurants. 191 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: I remember for a time, and. 192 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: Now here in Los Angeles there are so many restaurants 193 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 2: still out of business. Somebody storefronts empty. Every time I 194 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: read about a business closing, first thing they say is 195 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: we never recovered from COVID, And I felt like we were. 196 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 2: I like like some somebody had invaded us and taken 197 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: away a lot of our freedoms and we were powerless 198 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: to stop them. And now we're looking, almost in some 199 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: neighborhoods literally at the ruins, like what what can be 200 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 2: donevent this and have a more open discussion and more 201 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: rational set of policies next time there's an emergency. 202 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that. Let's just think about the 203 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: root of the problem. The root was that people were 204 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 3: very scared about the virus, right and because you know, 205 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 3: a lot of the media would often focus on really 206 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 3: really negative stories. This is actually it was very different 207 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: than in Europe, where you get a little more emphasis 208 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 3: on the positive stories in the media. And that fear 209 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: then led people to say, who can save me? And 210 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 3: you know, you have a new virus. People naturally went 211 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 3: looked at scientists, and so you ended up having an 212 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 3: elevation in power of a very small number of scientists 213 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 3: who then essentially promised a way out of not dying 214 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: from this new new disease. All you have to do 215 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: is just obey, shut your store down, don't send your 216 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 3: kids to school, mask up, take the take you know, 217 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: vaccines fifteen of one, two, three, four or five, six, 218 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 3: seven eight times for for COVID. Uh, and then that's 219 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 3: that will save you and protect you, even when the 220 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: evidence didn't actually say that. The only way out, it's 221 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 3: not because you know, whatever the next threat will be, 222 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: it won't be exactly the same thing. The only way 223 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 3: out is to elevate scientific debate as the and replication 224 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: and other things as the source of truth. We're not. 225 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 3: We shouldn't be looking to a small number of people, 226 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: no matter how smart they are, to save us. We 227 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 3: have to be talking to each other, learning from each other, 228 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: embracing uncertainty and then UH. And then you know, address 229 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 3: fear with real facts by not not by aiming at 230 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 3: like suppressing disinformation, but by embracing debate and UH and 231 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: free speech. 232 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: Is there is there any hope on dealing with the 233 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: media because that kind of big audiences. I mean, when 234 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: CNN was running the death Counter on screen. I know 235 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: of one woman, a friend of ours, who says, I'm 236 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 2: watching CNN twelve hours a day and she was fixated 237 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: on the death counter and she became completely destabilized emotionally. 238 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 2: I mean, I witnessed this and it's like, well, what 239 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 2: do you what do you do you know about an 240 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: international network that has a death counter without any context 241 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 2: that was. 242 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: They did the they did the world and the United 243 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: States are huge to service. I'll tell you it's a 244 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 3: funny story. Like my mom at the beginning of the 245 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: pandemic was listening to CNN. She was like, really scared too. 246 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 3: At one point she heard one of the hosts on 247 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: CNN one of the shows attack me kind of viciously actually, 248 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 3: and that she's turned it off immediately because she was 249 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 3: quite angry about that. And she after that she told 250 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 3: me that she was feeling much less scared, so. 251 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 2: Because she knows you're right. So I wonder how how 252 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: people can can get through the thicket of a situation where, 253 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: you know, most of us are not trained and educated 254 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: in medical science like this, and we have we have 255 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: a society that always looked up to experts and always 256 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: looked up to people with the degrees, people like you, 257 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: and you know, the sense of betrayal among those that 258 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: I talk to about this, and I talk to a 259 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: lot of friends that we talk a lot on the 260 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: air is pretty deep. 261 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: You know. 262 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: It's like everybody's lost their innocence, and you know they're 263 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: not looking at the professors and the universities and the 264 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: doctors and the you know, the experts on TV who 265 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: are supposed to give us the straight deal. And now 266 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: they people feel adrift, you know, and and they don't 267 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: know what to do. They don't know who to believe, 268 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: what to trust anymore. I meant, you've got a big 269 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: job here to try to help rebuild this. 270 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I think the key thing, John, 271 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: I want to make a distinction between don't trust scientists, 272 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: but do trust science right, like actual true science like, 273 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: and that the hallmarks of that are an open basically 274 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: a humility. Right if someone's telling you, you know, I 275 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 3: think the scientific idea is right, and here's the here's 276 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: the evidence that I see, and here's some kind of evidence. 277 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: And I think that the counter evidence isn't is probably 278 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 3: not as important, but here's why I think it's right. 279 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 3: I trust that person a lot more than someone that 280 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: says I am the science. Here's what here's here's what 281 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: you must do with your life or else that that 282 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 3: that sort of humility, this like willingness to talk to 283 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 3: other people, that scientific process is powerful, John, And that's 284 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 3: why I was so happy to take, uh, take this 285 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 3: this job as director. I want to bring back that 286 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: kind of deep humility because ironically that when you're humble 287 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 3: about science, that's when you are most able to get 288 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: to the true things that actually can help your you 289 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: and your life, you know, address your your real needs, 290 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 3: your health needs, your material needs. Whereas, like you know, 291 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: science as a uh this sort of like hierarchy where 292 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 3: where you have some guy sitting atop saying do this, 293 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 3: or because I'm smarter than you that you just know 294 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 3: it's got to be bunked, Like there's no such thing. 295 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: There's no one human being that represents all of the science, 296 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 3: and you have to like say, you know, I mean 297 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: usually Americans are much more sensible than that. When someone says, 298 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 3: you know, come, I'm the king, follow me, we say no, right, 299 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's the basis of America, that that 300 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 3: we just extend that spirit to science. Right, So no 301 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 3: to imperious scientists, Yes to honest science, humble science that 302 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 3: addresses your needs. 303 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 2: How much of the humility you think your colleagues who 304 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: were critics are feeling now five years later, versus how 305 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: much defensiveness and stubbornness. 306 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I alas I have to say, as now 307 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 3: they've been in this job for about three months, I'm 308 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 3: still seeing quite a bit of stubbornness. Although I have 309 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 3: to say, I mean, just to be in fairness, I 310 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: have seen and have met a lot of great scientists 311 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 3: here who are who understand the something went deeply wrong 312 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 3: here at the NIH of the Nationalists of Health and 313 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 3: and and are trying to find ways back. You know, 314 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 3: people when no one, no one likes to admit they're wrong, 315 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 3: so that there's there's setling some some of that going on. 316 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: But I think, uh so, I think we're still moving 317 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 3: in that direction where people are are finally going are 318 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 3: starting to say, well, yeah, maybe maybe we weren't right. 319 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 3: There's a saying actually in Science by there's a famous 320 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: physicist masquonk who is saying was that that science advances 321 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: one obituary at a time because he was in the 322 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 3: world of physics, and like it was kind of a 323 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 3: crazy idea, but like basically the old physicists had to 324 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: die out before the young physicists were the real right 325 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: ideas could could have their say, I don't. I'm really 326 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: hoping that that's not the case here. I think that 327 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 3: the problems during COVID with the way that science was applied, 328 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 3: and that's just fundamentally wrong. Things like the vaccine stopped 329 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 3: you from getting and spreading COVID. That is a cause 330 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 3: for scientists to be humble, like, we got this wrong, 331 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 3: let's admit it, let's move on. 332 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: We ask one quick thing before we got to do 333 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 2: the news early on, from what I saw, scientists researchers 334 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: seemed to know that most of the deaths were coming 335 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,719 Speaker 2: from the elderly and those with pre existing conditions, and 336 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: yet we still had a long period of total lockdown 337 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 2: and everybody's lives getting disrupted. Why didn't they embrace the 338 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: idea It's like, Okay, we know exactly who's who's being targeted. 339 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 2: In fact, that was that was the thrust of one 340 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 2: of your first great public statements, is we don't have 341 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: to lock everybody down. We know exactly who's most at risk. 342 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: Why didn't they embrace what you were saying? 343 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 3: You know, I think the example of the Chinese in 344 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 3: January twenty twenty played a big role in people's minds. 345 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 3: The Chinese they locked this, led the locktown Muhan and 346 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 3: the Jube province around it, and they told the who 347 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 3: that it worked, and unfortunately a lot of public help people, 348 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 3: public health and science thought that that was actually accurate. 349 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 3: It didn't work, and they brought over authoritarian methods that 350 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: have no hope of working in any society like the 351 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 3: United States. And it really because if you look before 352 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 3: the pandemic, none of the pandemic plans and public health 353 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 3: actually called for lockdowns. That was a unique, crazy thing 354 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 3: that was added on top by the Chinese. Example, for 355 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: the first time in history, large cities lockdown for extended 356 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: periods of time, a large society is lockdown for extended 357 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 3: periods of time. And it was a massive experiment, if 358 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 3: you will, one that should never have been undertaken, and 359 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 3: now we know what was a failed one. 360 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 2: Thank you doctor j Beaticharia. He is the head of 361 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 2: the National Institute's Institutes of Hell, replacing Anthony Fauci, longtime 362 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: Stanford professor. I hope we could do this again sometime. 363 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on. 364 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: Thank you, John. Wonderful talk with you, all. 365 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 4: Right, you're listening to John Cobels on demand from KFI 366 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 4: A six forty. 367 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: And you're just joining us. 368 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: You missed an interview we did with the doctor j Baticharia, 369 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: the new head of the National Institutes of Health, that 370 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 2: was Anthony Fauci's old job, and he was on with 371 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 2: us for half an hour, and the interview will be 372 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 2: on the podcast. So after four o'clock John Cobolt Show 373 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 2: on demand on the iHeart app and you could listen 374 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: to that interview and we talked about all the aftermath 375 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 2: in the last five and a half years since the 376 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: COVID lockdowns began. Right now, everybody here noticed that Channel 377 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: five is running continuous coverage of some kind of federal 378 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 2: agent operation at a farm in Ventura County. And if 379 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: you just are looking at the picture, you don't know 380 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: what's going on. So Michael Monks here has gotten some information. 381 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 5: Sure, it's a pre dramatic scene, So I can imagine 382 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: if we had a helicopter and a visual that you 383 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 5: want to milk it. Yeah, you want to be up 384 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 5: there because the scene is dramatic. But we have radio, 385 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 5: so we have to use our words. And you're in 386 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 5: the helicopter you're the visual here we are picture it. 387 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 5: Six hundred block or so of Laguna Road near came 388 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 5: Rio in Ventura County. There is a massive cannabis farm there. 389 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 5: The road completely shut down right now because a large 390 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 5: federal immigration agent presence showed up, militarized a lot of 391 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 5: military vehicles. Their helicopters are also above. What are they 392 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 5: doing that we don't know yet. We don't know who 393 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 5: they were targeting, what they wanted to do there. But 394 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 5: protesters got wind of it and they showed up on 395 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 5: the scene too. And this has been active now for 396 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 5: about two hours. This crowd of about one hundred people 397 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 5: in what we've learned is unincorporated Ventura County near cam Rio. 398 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: They showed up, they didn't want to leave. 399 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 5: They've been gassed several times by the federal agents, and 400 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 5: that works, that disperses them. 401 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: But you, I've tasted it. It will make you run away. 402 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 5: If you were there to protest or just to cover it, 403 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 5: you're gonna run. Yeah, you need to take a bath. 404 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 5: Problem year is I was gassed in downtown Los Angeles. One, 405 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 5: you already have immunity to the worst smells in the world. Yeah, 406 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 5: And two it's an urbanized environment. You're out in the 407 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 5: field somewhere, so you have more places to run to 408 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 5: and hide or to get your bearings and then come back. 409 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 5: It's not like downtown LA, where they can corral you 410 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 5: into a couple of blocks and push the protesters off. 411 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 5: So this is the first large protest we've seen in 412 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 5: a rural an agriculture area, and that's why I think 413 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 5: this scene is rather interesting because one hundred people's a 414 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 5: good sized protest against this number of agents, and they're 415 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 5: not violent or anything yet. They're just shouting. But the 416 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 5: agents obviously want them gone, and they've tried to trust. 417 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 5: With the shootings and Texas the other day, you don't 418 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 5: know what's look, it's only amplifying the tensions. Whether you're 419 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 5: in support of the immigration enforcement efforts or in opposition 420 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 5: of them, it is very clear that tensions are are 421 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 5: really boiling, more than they were even in early June 422 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 5: when it really got going. 423 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 3: Here. 424 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: You no hint of what they're investigating here, because you know, 425 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 2: everybody's first reaction is are they chasing a bunch of 426 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: tomato pickers? 427 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 5: Well, there's something interesting to note here. Coastalview dot com 428 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 5: a website that covers Ventura County noted that the farm 429 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 5: where this scene is unfolding near Cameria is owned by 430 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 5: Glasshouse Farms, and they are a producer and distributor of 431 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 5: cannabis and cannabis products legal I would imagine, So yeah, ok, yeah, yeah, 432 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 5: they have a name and they have their name on 433 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 5: the on the on the deal. 434 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 2: You know what, because it's legal in California, but federally no, 435 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: that's true, area is not legal. I wondered, are they 436 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: going after it and using the cover of federal uh 437 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 2: law that says marijuana. 438 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: It's possible. I hope we find out soon. 439 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 5: It's been difficult to get details from the Department of 440 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 5: Homeland Security about what draws them to a certain area. 441 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 5: They will often talk about specific cases when those who 442 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 5: have been apprehended fit the criminal profile that they say 443 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 5: they've been targeting, but you don't get a lot of 444 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 5: details about everybody else they picked up at the car 445 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 5: washes and so forth, or what they might be doing 446 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 5: in farm country right now. But there was a reportedly 447 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 5: according to coastalview dot Com, about an hour before this 448 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 5: thing started near Camerillo in Carpenteria. 449 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: Is that what he's saying that carpenteria. 450 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, this same company has another farm that was 451 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 5: also hit by immigration agents in that area. So from that, 452 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 5: what are you to do, perhaps that they are being 453 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 5: suspected of hiring illegal immigrants at their locations. We know 454 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 5: that the Trump administration wants to target more workplaces that 455 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 5: are hiring. 456 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 2: That's when where it started, the whole riot in downtown La. Right, 457 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 2: they were going as a fashion district, a fashion district 458 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 2: company that had some they said, some funny business with 459 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: its tax records and it's hiring policies, and that blew up. 460 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: Oh my god, they're doing a raid on workers. Well, 461 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 2: the original target was to go after the employers. Maybe 462 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 2: that's the original target here. 463 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 5: It could be, But we've also seen some waffling from 464 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,719 Speaker 5: President Trump himself on how hard he wants to go 465 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 5: after the illegal immigrants who were working the agriculture industry. 466 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, first he. 467 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 5: Says, maybe we need to be a little easier on 468 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 5: the farmers. Are great farmers. And then you hear from 469 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 5: the administration officials who must have pushed back a little 470 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 5: bit and say no, no, it's full speed ahead. And 471 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 5: then again this week we're hearing a. 472 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 2: Little bit not everybody in the administration agrees on the approach. 473 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 5: We clearly do not have a directive that is clear 474 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 5: for everybody to understand. 475 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: He changes his mind every week, Yes he does. 476 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 5: And he happens to be the President of the United 477 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 5: States who sets the tone and the policy for his administration. 478 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 5: And so it's been really difficult to figure out whether 479 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 5: they're they're going to take a softer approach at some 480 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 5: point to hospitality, to agriculture. But if we if this 481 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 5: scene is any and he excuse me, any indication that 482 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 5: hasn't taken place yet. 483 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 2: All right, well, run in and tell us when you 484 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: find out something else. Yeah, you know, all we have 485 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 2: is the helicopter shot at Channel five, which isn't really 486 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: telling us anything. 487 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 5: I notice I never get sent to the scene when 488 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 5: weed is available. 489 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 2: Well, little upsetting, we've heard. 490 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 6: Bring him an edible if you want. 491 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, there's a there's a supplier there in the newsroom. Dever, 492 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 2: she's got an edible for you and I took one 493 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 2: of those, so be real careful. And it also explains 494 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 2: what's going on with her. All right, Debora Mark is 495 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 2: live in the KFI twenty four our newsroom. 496 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 4: You're listening to John Cobels on demand from KFI AM 497 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 4: six forty. 498 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: We're on every day from one until four. Moistline is 499 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 2: eight seven seven moist eighty six. That's tomorrow, eight seven 500 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: seven moist eighty six, eight seven seven sixty six four 501 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: seven eight eight six h two o'clock, We're going to 502 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: have the attorney, Roger baileyon to talk about lawsuits that 503 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: have been filed by Palisades residents against the City of 504 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: Los Angeles and what these investigators, these and these attorneys 505 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: are finding out about what went on. There are a 506 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: number of news stories of morning and on the preparation 507 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 2: and the response to the winds that led to the fires. 508 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: We're going to delve into that with Roger Bailey, the attorney, 509 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: coming up after two o'clock, and then we've got a 510 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 2: lot of Karen Bass clips to play. I thought that 511 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: would be a great segue. She did an interview with 512 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,479 Speaker 2: a Telemundo reporter, Enrique A Chiabra, where she announced that 513 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: she's definitely running for reelection. Boy, isn't that heartwarming news? Hi, 514 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: Karen Bass actually wants to be mayor another four years 515 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: after this term is over. Now disturbing article in the 516 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 2: La Times today, they said, for all the things the 517 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 2: Times doesn't cover, they had a reporter, Jenny Jarvey, go 518 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: all the way to Florence, South Carolina, to cover Newsom's 519 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 2: campaign launch there, and he was speaking to democratic organizations. 520 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 2: Long article, but I wanted to focus for now on this. 521 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: She describes the crowd. You all ready for this. Many 522 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: in the crowd were clearly awed by Newsom. Some swooned 523 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: over his quote beautiful hair. 524 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: He does have nice there, They swooned. 525 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 2: Now, when a woman is in a swoon, what does 526 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 2: that look like? Swoon for me? That was holding her 527 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: hands together and swaying from side to side, cocking her head. 528 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't swoon for Newsome. I'm just gonna say 529 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: I don't. 530 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 6: I don't swoon for any politician. 531 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: That's a good bumper sticker. I don't swoon for Newsom. 532 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 2: She forgot to flip her hair. Oh yeah, you gotta 533 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: flip your hair back. They were swooned it by over 534 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: his beautiful hair and his charisma. 535 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: Uh. 536 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: One woman informed Newsom that her friend was in love 537 00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: with you, by the way. Another told friend that she 538 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: blacked out when she met Newsom. 539 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: Really she blacked out. 540 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 2: I mean, he's not a beetle, but he provokes the 541 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 2: same reaction like a beatle. Did tiffity too, tivity too? 542 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: She has a vote. This woman blacked out. She's over overcome. 543 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 6: You know, in life, the really good looking people, you know, 544 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 6: they they have it much easier than others. 545 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 2: She was so starstruck that she could not come up 546 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: with words. Here's a quard from Carol Abraham, the wife 547 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 2: of the mayor of Bennettsville, after Newsom spoke he's a 548 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: cool dude. 549 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: He has swag. What's that? I thought swag was free gifts. 550 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: You can't the way he moves, the way he moves, man, 551 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: we are doomed, yeh. 552 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: I If this spreads, if this catches on, this would 553 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: be like the COVID virus. I don't know if there's 554 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 2: a vaccine for this though. And they were also happy 555 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 2: that he's standing up to Trump. 556 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god. They have no idea. They have no 557 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: idea what we're dealing with here. 558 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: They don't care, and they don't care. It's actually that hair, 559 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: even after turned all. He used to be greasy black. 560 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: Now it's greasy gray. 561 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 6: You know what, It's a double standard for women. Gray 562 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 6: hair is ugly and not acceptable for men. 563 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: How much do you spend a year? 564 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 6: I'm never going gray. I'm just going to put it 565 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 6: out there. 566 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 4: I'm too vain. 567 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: You didn't have to announce that. 568 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I know anybody who spends ten or 569 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. 570 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: Going boy, she is vain, I admitted, though. 571 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you are here. You are you have self awareness. 572 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: I do have selfnes a certain extent. So I have 573 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: to talk to you about self awareness at another time. 574 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: About something things that happened last night, Okay, on the air, 575 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: Off the air, I can tell you both. Okay, Oh, 576 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: speaking of last night. Yes, you were not in a 577 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: dream last night that I had. 578 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: But you should have been. 579 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: I was driving a car on a two lane road, 580 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: hugging the coast, flat road, not up off a cliff, right, 581 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: but I'm driving right along the edge of the Pacific Ocean, 582 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 2: and you were supposed to be in the car with 583 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,239 Speaker 2: me in the front seat. And I don't know what 584 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: the circumstances were, but I remember thinking you were supposed 585 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 2: to be there. And I went around a curve and 586 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: I did not negotiate the curve and I went off 587 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 2: the road into the rocks, headed for the ocean and 588 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: dream ends. 589 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 6: Okay, I'm going to analyze this for you really quickly. Yeah, 590 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 6: you need me to keep you on the straightened era. 591 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 6: I'm a very important part of keeping you on track. 592 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 6: That's with that dream or nightmare me. 593 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: Well, you weren't there. 594 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 4: I wasn't there. 595 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: I am now. 596 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 2: I sunk to the bottom of the ocean last night. 597 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: I mean I blacked out before I before I hit 598 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 2: the water. 599 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 6: Because I wasn't there. 600 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: A tragedy. 601 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 2: Well, when I was neat, when you were needed. You're 602 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,959 Speaker 2: looking at it from a right because I'm the one 603 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 2: who experienced this. I blacked out the way that poor 604 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 2: woman blacked out approaching Newsom. Can you imagine if we 605 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: had him on the show and I blacked out just 606 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: because I'm so overwhelmed by by his charisma and his 607 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 2: beauty and his jawl. 608 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: Ever, Yeah, I was gonna say, from him pissing you 609 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: off so much. 610 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a good shot of that happening. We come 611 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: back Roger Bailey, they have He's an attorney. He's representing 612 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: a lot of Pacific Palisades residents over the fire, and 613 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 2: his team has been doing a lot of investigations and 614 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: they have found more disturbing things about the city's preparation 615 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 2: and response to the fire, including the lad WP had 616 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 2: a worker who took five hours to respond to an 617 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: order to de energize the electrical circuits during the fire, 618 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: and of course that may have started further fires, and 619 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 2: then he doctored the records to try to cover it up. 620 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: Roger Bailey's gonna explain this and a lot of other 621 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: things coming up Deborah Mark Live the KFI twenty four 622 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 2: hour Newsroom. 623 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: Hey, you've been listening to the John Cobalt Show podcast. 624 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: You can always hear the show live on KFI Am 625 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: six forty from one to four pm every Monday through Friday, 626 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 2: and of course, anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.