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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Sheep Pivots. I'm Joe Piazza.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Sheep Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman.

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Speaker 2: When I was planning this season, I wanted to make

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Speaker 2: sure she pivots was a means for building connections. I

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Speaker 2: said during our season launch party that we are the

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Speaker 2: generation of women who build bridges and don't tear each

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Speaker 2: other down. And she pivots as a way to empower

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Speaker 2: women to look inward to find success for themselves and

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Speaker 2: not by society standards. And it's working. We're seeing a

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Speaker 2: substantial change in the way women think about and talk

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Speaker 2: about their lives and their careers. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 2: dig deeper into these pivotal moments through these shorter, more conversational,

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Speaker 2: candid conbos this season. Let's jump right in. I am

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Speaker 2: delighted to share today's episode with the Joe Piazza, best

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Speaker 2: selling author, fellow podcast creator and host, and an award

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Speaker 2: winning journalist. Her new book, The Sicilian Inheritance is out everywhere,

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Speaker 2: so be sure to go snag a copy wherever you

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Speaker 2: get your books, and snag a pick of you reading it.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, we dive into what it takes to

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Speaker 2: stay relevant in the influencer economy. How Joe's early experience

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Speaker 2: as a tabloid writer established skills that now help her

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Speaker 2: today and actionable easy ways women can support one another. Thus,

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Speaker 2: we just generally have fun. Hope you enjoy. Do you

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Speaker 2: know that chair in your bedroom? Yes, you do. We

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Speaker 2: all have one, the one that was meant to be decorative.

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Speaker 2: We all love the look, but in reality it's become

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Speaker 2: a catch all for all the clothes we wear in

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Speaker 2: constant rotation. The pieces are so intertwined into our daily

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Speaker 2: lives that they seldom make it to the laundry basket,

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Speaker 2: back to the closet, or to the dry cleaner. That

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Speaker 2: is the category where duster lives. My friend Melissa and

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Speaker 2: mag say say look to her Filipino heritage when searching

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Speaker 2: for a piece that would address the void for the

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Speaker 2: comfortable daily clothes that weren't quite at leisure wear. Traditionally,

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Speaker 2: a duster is a simple and simple, loose fitting house

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Speaker 2: dress worn by Filipino women while doing housework. But the

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Speaker 2: look of work for women has changed, and I love

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Speaker 2: that duster allows me to run from drop off to

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Speaker 2: meetings to interviews while I may still lovingly toss it

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Speaker 2: into the chair. It is truly the perfect item to

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Speaker 2: simply experience life with my kids in. You can shop

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Speaker 2: all their adorable styles at shopduster dot com and follow

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Speaker 2: them on Instagram at shop Duster.

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Speaker 1: I am Joe Piazza, and I guess I have to

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Speaker 1: call myself a media multi hyphen it these days.

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Speaker 3: I run my own.

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Speaker 1: Podcast production company. I'm the host and creator of the

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Speaker 1: podcasts Under the Influence and Committed, and I'm the author

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Speaker 1: of what is now being called the Book of the Summer,

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Speaker 1: Sicilian Inheritance.

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Speaker 2: Yes it is. I'm so excited to find out if

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Speaker 2: I am still literate by reading your book. I'm not

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent sure, It's been a while since I've

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Speaker 2: actually read, yes, but I'm thrilled to get into your book.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here is what people keep telling me, because I've

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Speaker 1: been giving it to a lot of women who are

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Speaker 1: in a reading slump, and they say it's an easy read,

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Speaker 1: it's a fun read, but you also feel smarter when

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Speaker 1: you finish it. And so a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: told me Sicilian Inheritance has gotten them out of their

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Speaker 1: reading slump, which is a nice compliment.

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Speaker 2: Like the highest of compliments, the highest.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I kind of like my publisher doesn't agree

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Speaker 1: with anything that I say. But I'm like, could you

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Speaker 1: actually put that as a quote on the front of

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Speaker 1: the book, the best book to get you out of

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Speaker 1: your reading slump? Because I'm like, that's good advertising.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's possibly not good about that? Like what's their pushback?

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Speaker 1: They're like, well, don't you want some famous author on

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Speaker 1: the front. And I'm like, yeah, I love other famous authors.

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Speaker 1: But also people want to know that this book is

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Speaker 1: going to get them out of their reading slump.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right Exactly. It turns out that people are going

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Speaker 2: like they want to know if they're going to read,

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Speaker 2: like they're actually.

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Speaker 3: They want to know if they're going to read.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're gonna read it. So it sounds like

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Speaker 2: actually a huge way to sell it to me.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry when we get off, I'm going to make

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Speaker 1: the ad and I'm just gonna do it myself.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, isn't that what we're all doing these days?

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Speaker 2: Like we're all just diying it ourselves, like you're publishing.

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Speaker 3: We all do.

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Speaker 1: We all do all the things all the time because

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Speaker 1: we are women and we are the greatest multitaskers on

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Speaker 1: the planet, is what we are.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't realize how much of a multitasker I

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Speaker 2: could be until I had three children.

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Speaker 3: No, my, that just.

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Speaker 2: Set me on another level of multitasking.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. I genuinely believe that having kids

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Speaker 1: wakes up this part of your brain that is dormant

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Speaker 1: sometimes that is maybe dormant before you have kids, and

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Speaker 1: you are it's almost a superpower. Multi My ability to

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Speaker 1: multitask is now a superpower. Yeah, on another level level.

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Speaker 1: So I love your podcasts. I love your books, like

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Speaker 1: I love everything you put out into the world. You've

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Speaker 1: got a great article out right now, Like I just

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Speaker 1: I love everything that you put out into the world.

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Speaker 1: And I think that we're in an age where well

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Speaker 1: I think, I know, we are in an age where

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Speaker 1: media is redefining itself and what it means to be

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Speaker 1: a publisher, a journalist, a host, like any of this.

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Speaker 1: Like we're reformatting all these jobs and how we make

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Speaker 1: work out of it and how we define it. You

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Speaker 1: are a journalist, like that is where you started that

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Speaker 1: and you have been able to make this transition. I

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Speaker 1: think in a way that a lot of journalists have

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Speaker 1: not been able to. So can you talk us through

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Speaker 1: a little bit of that, like you started in like journalism,

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Speaker 1: like the way that people of our age like are journalists. Yes, totally.

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Speaker 1: And I have a lot to say on this because

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Speaker 1: I do sit down with young women or women in

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Speaker 1: middle age who are looking to pivot their careers, who

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Speaker 1: ask me, oh, my gosh, how do I become a writer?

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Speaker 1: And my answer is, there is no one path anymore,

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Speaker 1: and there used to be one path. So when I

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Speaker 1: started out, I went to journalism school, I wrote for

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Speaker 1: the school paper, I interned at the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: and then my first journalism job, which I don't talk

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Speaker 1: about that much, is I write about municipal bonds for

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Speaker 1: a newspaper called The Bond Buyer, perhaps the least sexy

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Speaker 1: journalism job. And then I bounced to the most sexy

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Speaker 1: journalism job, which is I was a gossip columnist for

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Speaker 1: the New York Daily News, and then a staff writer

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Speaker 1: and a columnist and an editor for the New York

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Speaker 1: Daily News. I assumed I would be in magazines and

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Speaker 1: newspapers for the rest of my life, Like that's what

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Speaker 1: I thought my trajectory was going to be, and then

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Speaker 1: the Internet came along and that industry started to both

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Speaker 1: die and to pivot and to change and evolve. And

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Speaker 1: I've been evolving my career now for the past fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I had watched the editors before me

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Speaker 1: have twenty thirty forty year careers in print at one place,

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Speaker 1: and that no longer exists anymore. So I did think,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I'm going to embrace these new formats.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing this right, I'm doing social, I'm doing digital.

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Speaker 1: And then podcasts came along, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: here we are, and now influencer media and having to

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Speaker 1: make yourself a brand is where I think all writers

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Speaker 1: and journalists are at. And though it is not something

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Speaker 1: I enjoy, it is something I have embraced in order

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Speaker 1: to be able to continue this career as a journalist

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Speaker 1: and as an author. And so I think that the

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Speaker 1: best advice I have for anyone right now is that

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Speaker 1: you have to turn yourself into a brand, and you

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Speaker 1: have to be intensely nimble. And the journalists that I

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Speaker 1: know that I have left the industry, they didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be nimble. They didn't want to leave the old

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Speaker 1: ways behind, and I get it because it sucks and

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Speaker 1: it's hard, and there are days when I am filled

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Speaker 1: with constant, constant anxiety. In fact, tomorrow's episode of Under

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Speaker 1: the Influence podcast is entitled I'm just a high functioning mess.

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Speaker 1: But I did it, and I'm happy I did it

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Speaker 1: because I think it has prepared me for what is

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Speaker 1: a very uncertain media future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's It feels incredibly uncertain. Even I

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Speaker 2: feel like podcasting as an industry is like turning over

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Speaker 2: every six months. It's like entirely the landscape is entirely

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Speaker 2: changing every six months. I mean, I kind of I

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Speaker 2: agree that. I think the journalists who are doing well

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Speaker 2: now are basically making their money off substack because they've

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Speaker 2: and so they have a big funnel to bring readers

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Speaker 2: into it, and now everyone's doing a podcast to go

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Speaker 2: along with it. But I actually think it's not sustainable,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't think it's sustainable for people to put

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Speaker 2: so much of themselves out all the time, Like you

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Speaker 2: can't put all I struggle with this, like there are

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Speaker 2: some vulnerabilities and some insecurities that I have that I'm

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Speaker 2: incredibly open about, like the fact that I had no

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Speaker 2: identity after my political career entirely tanked. But there's some

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Speaker 2: things like I'm still working through and I'm not comfortable

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Speaker 2: talking about them. And I think that's true for everybody.

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Speaker 2: But I think that if everybody's a brand and everyone's

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Speaker 2: supposed to be like projecting their lived experience at all time,

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Speaker 2: I just don't think that's sustainable. Don't think it's realistic.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's sustainable.

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Speaker 1: I think the two things you just said are not sustainable. One,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how sustainable it is to do substack

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Speaker 1: and to keep creating, creating more and more content when

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Speaker 1: the world is just filled with so much content. At

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Speaker 1: this point, I can't even find things that I would

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Speaker 1: like to read because there's just so much out there.

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Speaker 1: And I also don't think everybody being a brand and

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Speaker 1: everyone being a micro celebrity is sustainable. I know it's

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Speaker 1: not sustainable for me. There's a lot that I talk about.

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Speaker 1: I just wrote a substack on my over the Influence

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Speaker 1: newsletter where I showed pictures of my butt in a bikini,

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Speaker 1: my big my mom butt, and my mom belly in

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Speaker 1: a bathing suit. Because I do know, I genuinely believe

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Speaker 1: that moms are hungry for images of real human beings,

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Speaker 1: and I'm very passionate about that. So I share about that.

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Speaker 1: I share about my anxiety, I share about my family.

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Speaker 1: But I'm running out of things to share.

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Speaker 2: No, I feel that. I feel like people are like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: I was just talking to Rebecca MinC Off the other

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Speaker 2: day and she's like, oh, well, I'm starting on my substack.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to share like my morning routines and what

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Speaker 2: I use. And I was like, well, she was like,

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Speaker 2: you should do that too, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: but I don't change anything like that would be one

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Speaker 2: really short column from me.

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Speaker 1: And kind of boring, kind of boring thing. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: will say, it's so interesting because my morning routine newsletter

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Speaker 1: is still like one of the biggest red ones that

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Speaker 1: I did, which is so funny because my morning routine

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Speaker 1: is chaos, Like I don't get up and do a

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Speaker 1: freaking skincare routine. Like you were looking at me pretty

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Speaker 1: much how I got out of bed, except I put

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Speaker 1: on a jumpsuit and a furry vest because until Sicilian

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Speaker 1: inheritance comes out, I'm very committed to the mob wife aesthetic.

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Speaker 2: Oh this is all I worked out for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no it has. It's as if the

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Speaker 1: mob wife aesthetic on TikTok happened just for me. Right, well,

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Speaker 1: did you start it? I didn't start it that I mean,

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Speaker 1: I wish I had, but I still don't understand TikTok.

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Speaker 1: That is like that, I mean talking about embracing new mediums,

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Speaker 1: that is something I just I'm confounded by. I try,

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Speaker 1: I try and try, but I it just it hasn't

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Speaker 1: worked out for me.

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Speaker 2: And you've been very helpful to me as I started

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Speaker 2: this show and figuring out like how I format it,

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Speaker 2: what phase I've gone through, And I so appreciate that,

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Speaker 2: Like I feel like the way that women now are

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Speaker 2: helping one another, it is so the opposite of the

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Speaker 2: narratives that we had heard we were entering the workforce

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Speaker 2: about women being competitive and holding one another down. That's

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Speaker 2: actually not the experience that I've had. Like my experience

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Speaker 2: has been women really helping me and not being competitive.

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Speaker 2: And you have been incredible. You have been incredibly helpful

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Speaker 2: to me. So I just wanted to thank you for that.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think like one of our goals as

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Speaker 1: women has to be to uplift other women and to

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Speaker 1: help other women and to just be there as a

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Speaker 1: support system.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I came up in newspapers which were very male dominated,

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Speaker 1: very misogynistic and patriarchal. And I had incredible mentors Joanna

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Speaker 1: Maloy who wrote the Russian Malloy column, Colleen Curtis, who

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Speaker 1: was our features editor. But I also had the worst

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Speaker 1: boss of my life at that newspaper, who was vicious

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Speaker 1: and abusive and competitive and mean. And I hate saying

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Speaker 1: that because it's about another woman, but it does define

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Speaker 1: what a certain generation of women learned in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: and I think that we're unlearning that and trying to

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Speaker 1: pass that on to the next generation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And I think something

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Speaker 2: that's helped me in this space is that podcasts actually

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Speaker 2: aren't really competitive with one another, but it's kind of

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Speaker 2: only additive, Like if someone likes your podcast, there's a

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Speaker 2: similar one, then they'll probably like the other one too.

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Speaker 2: And like you, no one can listen to twenty yet

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Speaker 2: when no one can publish twenty hours of podcasts a.

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Speaker 3: Week, no, I've tried, I've tried.

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Speaker 2: I feel like if anyone can do it, you're getting

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Speaker 2: very close. So like the audience is only additive, and

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Speaker 2: I do feel like there's a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: hanging on of the previous generation that feels that it

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Speaker 2: should be competitive because everything else was competitive. But I

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Speaker 2: do think for the most part, people are are very

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Speaker 2: generous with helping each other with stories, with guests, with

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Speaker 2: cross promotion, like I do find I think that's why

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Speaker 2: I like it. I like being in spaces that feel

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Speaker 2: really positive, Like I think I spent so much of

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Speaker 2: my career just trying to eat everyone else around me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now you you were in what I think is

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Speaker 1: one of the worst spaces to be in. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I covered politics for a while too, and I worked

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Speaker 1: at a little liberal experiment called Current TV.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, I recall Current TV. Wasn't that the Al

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Speaker 2: Gore station?

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Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah, I worked with I worked with Al

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Speaker 1: and Gavin. This lineup is fucking bananas. Okay, it was

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Speaker 1: Al Gavin Newsome Elliott spits sir.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: After By the way, I was one of the reporters

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Speaker 1: that like helped to break his hooker scandal, and then

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Speaker 1: I was like his digital news editor.

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Speaker 2: Wait say more about breaking that story?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that was a huge,

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Speaker 1: huge story for us.

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Speaker 3: At the New York Daily News, and.

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Speaker 1: I was working on the gossip beat. I was also

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Speaker 1: working on the political beat at the same time, because

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Speaker 1: that was when, you know, the lines between gossip and

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Speaker 1: politics really started to get blurry. And frankly, our beat

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Speaker 1: had the most access to people who could get us

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Speaker 1: access to high end escorts, and so we were really

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Speaker 1: the ones that helped to get a lot of information

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Speaker 1: about that story. And don't I don't think that he

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he was on such a power trip.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he knew that I was one of

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Speaker 1: those reporters. But yeah, so then I'm working at Current

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Speaker 1: TV like as his digital news editor, and it was

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Speaker 1: just it was bananas, kind of beautiful and also just

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Speaker 1: very male dominated, progressive experiment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of that.

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Speaker 3: There was a lot of that. There was a lot

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean politics is just the I mean

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Speaker 1: it's nasty. You think celebrity like gossip is nasty, The

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Speaker 1: political world is nasty. And kudos to you for surviving

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Speaker 1: an intact girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: Well, some would say I survived it intact. I also

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Speaker 2: just walked right out the door. So I also walked

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Speaker 2: right out the door of the New York Daily News.

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Speaker 3: I like Jerry Maguire out of that shit.

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Speaker 2: So you moved to podcasting As an early podcast, it

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Speaker 2: was committed. Your Committed was your first show, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Committed.

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Speaker 1: The guys from How Stuff Works approached me seven years

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Speaker 1: ago and said, hey, Piazza, you've written a lot of books.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to turn any of them into a podcast.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to make smarter podcasts. And I was like, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: I've got this one about nuns and they were like,

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Speaker 1: maybe something else, and I'm like, okay, great, I've also

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Speaker 1: got this one about interviewing people around the world about

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Speaker 1: how to be married and how does marriage work? Because

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Speaker 1: I got married as a thirty five year old's potential

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Speaker 1: spinster and I'm so curious about how relationships work. And

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Speaker 1: they're like, yes, that one, And so we created the

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Speaker 1: Committed podcast, which was one of their biggest podcasts, one

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Speaker 1: of Iheart's biggest podcasts for a very long time after

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Speaker 1: iHeart acquired How Stuff Works. And it's just it's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful exploration of like real marriage and real relationships, and

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to bring it back. The first episode

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Speaker 1: is actually about a couple where the guy suffered from

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Speaker 1: porn addiction and how they got over that.

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Speaker 2: You really do find the stories. We're going to take

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Speaker 2: a short break for some ads. Now back to the show.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how do you come up with so many

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Speaker 2: interesting and distinct ideas so rapidly? This has really been

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Speaker 2: a point of fascination for me, Like I've had one

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Speaker 2: good idea here, right, Like I'm just I've had one

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Speaker 2: and I'm sticking with it. But like in the couple

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Speaker 2: of years that I've known you, every one of your

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Speaker 2: ideas is so different, Like she wants more fascinating, Like

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Speaker 2: how do you come up with all these different ideas

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Speaker 2: and then execute them at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I genuinely credit my early career as a tabloid daily

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Speaker 1: newspaper writer for my intense idea generation, because you.

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Speaker 3: Got to fill that newspaper.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't have an idea, and if you

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Speaker 1: are not constantly constantly busting your ass every day and

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Speaker 1: handing in that copy by five o'clock, then you're useless

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Speaker 1: to them.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: And I was young, and I was hungry, and so

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Speaker 1: I've always had that work ethic. I think it's also

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Speaker 1: why I don't get writer's block, because I'm like, if

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Speaker 1: I got writer's block, you know, my drunken Australian British

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Speaker 1: editor or whatever he was going to like throw a

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Speaker 1: muggle whiskey in my freaking head talk about toxic workplaces

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Speaker 1: in the early two thousands. But I got excited about

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Speaker 1: constantly having new and innovative ideas. My agents hate it.

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Speaker 1: My agents fucking hate it because they're like my agents

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Speaker 1: now actually don't hate it as much. My first agent

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Speaker 1: despised it. She's like, you know, you don't really have

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Speaker 1: a lane and it's hard to sell, and you know,

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Speaker 1: if you had a lane, then you know, we could

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Speaker 1: build an audience. And I'm like, I think if you

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Speaker 1: create good shit, the audience is going to come. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's true now more than ever. An

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Speaker 1: audience is coming for you, not necessarily what type of

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Speaker 1: thing you're making. But I will say the Sicilian Inheritance

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Speaker 1: is a departure from the other books that I've written,

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Speaker 1: which have been more contemporary fiction. You set in the

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Speaker 1: modern day, and this is set in the modern day,

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Speaker 1: but it also has a historical aspect, and it's a thriller,

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Speaker 1: which I've never written, and some publishing houses were real nervous.

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Speaker 1: They're like, how do we market this? And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: as a book, that's how you do that? Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: just it's a book written by someone who's already sold

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Speaker 1: a lot of books, so I think it'll be okay.

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Speaker 2: How do you as you go through the marketing for

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Speaker 2: every book that you've done, every podcast that you've done, Like,

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Speaker 2: as you go through each of them, no one's I

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Speaker 2: mean I find this more and more with publishing that

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Speaker 2: no one's the same with podcasts, and like, no one's

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Speaker 2: going to do as marketing for you, Like you have

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Speaker 2: to do it on your own. And I agree with

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Speaker 2: you that I think that people will come if it's interesting,

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Speaker 2: but you do have to figure out how to appeal

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Speaker 2: to a new audience. They don't know you yet. How

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Speaker 2: you have you been thinking about that?

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Speaker 1: Hustle, hustle, hustle, And I mean so much of marketing

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Speaker 1: falls on content creators themselves these days. Little things from

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to pitch stories that will appeal to a

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Speaker 1: new audience. Sicilian Inheritance has some steamy sex scenes that

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Speaker 1: are steamier than the things I've written before. So I

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Speaker 1: just did I just pitched a personal essay to New

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Speaker 1: York Magazine about how do I write steamy sex scenes

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Speaker 1: when my real sex life is super vanilla? And that's

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Speaker 1: how I like it.

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Speaker 2: It incredible.

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Speaker 1: It is to please let us know and that will run.

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Speaker 1: I like boring sex, and I'm not afraid to talk.

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Speaker 2: About it, okay, and opening the taboo of boring sex

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Speaker 2: right life. Hey, just like making it acceptable to just

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Speaker 2: like regular people sex, okay, just regular Just it's the

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Speaker 2: next frontier. It's it is the next frontier. Actually, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're like the most popular books on TikTok right now

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Speaker 2: are all about like fairies having crazy wild.

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Speaker 1: Sex and you know, and like everyone should have all

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Speaker 1: of the sex that they want to have. But you know,

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Speaker 1: with polyamory so hot and fairy fucking so hot, you know,

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Speaker 1: my missionary penis vagina sex.

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Speaker 3: Is so boring for people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm interviewing Molly Winter, who just wrote that book

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Speaker 1: more about her polyamorous experience as a mom. I believe

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Speaker 1: in Park Slope and she's coming on under the influence

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Speaker 1: and where we're dropping it into the she wants More feed.

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Speaker 1: Actually that is a perfect crossover. Totally, totally, I love

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Speaker 1: a crossover. I love a crossover, and I'm a marketing

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Speaker 1: monster for Sicilian Inheritance right now, and I mean to

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Speaker 1: go back to the marketing yep. I think we all

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Speaker 1: have to be our own marketers. I've learned a lot

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Speaker 1: from covering celebrities and now covering influencers about how we

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Speaker 1: have to put ourselves out there. I've been covering the

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Speaker 1: Kardashians since Kim was a freaking closet organizer who was

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Speaker 1: begging us to cover her fake relationship with Nick Lache. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and I in the beginning, no one took the Kardashians seriously.

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Speaker 1: They left no money on the table.

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Speaker 3: They would do.

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Speaker 1: Everything and anything it took to get their brands out there.

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Speaker 1: And I think authors have always thought they were a

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Speaker 1: little precious for that. Yeah, and I'm not doing that anymore.

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Speaker 1: I'm screaming from the rooftops by the freaking Sicilian Inheritance.

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Speaker 1: I've made flyers that I just put up around the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood and like on the backs of bathroom doors. I

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Speaker 1: will say it over and over again, because we were

434
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: being sold to all the time by things that are

435
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: not nearly as good as our books or our podcast.

436
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: Club Monaco emails me every day, and I haven't shopped

437
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: at Clem Monaco in five fucking years. So if Club

438
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: Monaco can still email me every day, I can send

439
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: a message out to my audience to be like, hey,

440
00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: buy this book that you're really going to like.

441
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's right. I feel like sometimes

442
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: I do feel a little self promotional, but I believe

443
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 2: in the products, like I believe in what I'm putting

444
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: out there. I believe that it's important, so then it

445
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: feels okay for me to put it out there and

446
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: make hard asks totally.

447
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: And you know, I did used to feel self promotional,

448
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: and now I don't because I think that we're so

449
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: inundated with content all the time that someone has to

450
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: see something about twenty times for it to sink in.

451
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: And I just I want this book to sink in

452
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: because I love it and my goal is for it

453
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 1: to become an instant New York Times bestseller. And I'm

454
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: just putting that out into the universe. We're manifesting it.

455
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: We're putting it out, We're manifesting things.

456
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: Now it will happen. I love it. Yeah, I feel

457
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: like the I definitely see it on the pitch side

458
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 2: of it that like I get pitched so many books

459
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: and particularly people who are writing books like around pivoting

460
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: and around women pivoting, because it's coming up much more now,

461
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 2: like post pandemic, which I love, Like I love the

462
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 2: category growing for this podcast, it wouldn't make a ton

463
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: of sense because it would sound really repetitive for me

464
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: just to have more people on that say the same thing.

465
00:22:59,080 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 3: Truth totally.

466
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in the vein of like rising tides, like

467
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 2: I'm you know, we're all helping one another, Like I

468
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 2: do try to find other ways to anyone who's like

469
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: putting a book out there, putting a podcast at the

470
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: putting it speaking out there. So like maybe we'll put

471
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 2: it in our lose other or we'll put it on

472
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: our social or something like that, because I know that

473
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: it's hard to put yourself out there. And like if

474
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 2: someone is willing to make an ask to promote themselves,

475
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 2: like I can just feel how vulnerable that is. Yeah,

476
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: I want to give them something back, one hundred person,

477
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 2: even if it doesn't fit what we're doing, Like, I

478
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 2: want to give them something back.

479
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,239
Speaker 1: Do you want to give them you want to give

480
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: them something? You know, it's so funny. I think about

481
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: that in terms of book blurbing. You know, the whole

482
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: process of getting other authors to say they say nice

483
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: things about about your book and then put it on

484
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: your book. And it's solable, vulnerable, and also such a

485
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: weird ask, and as an author you have to do

486
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: most of it yourself. I blurb almost every book that

487
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: comes my way, and if I don't have time to blurb,

488
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: I'm like, send it to me. I'll promote it in

489
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: some way. There are authors who just ignore you, or

490
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: who say I'm on blurb hiatus, which is a weird

491
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: fucking thing to say. But I get it that everyone

492
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: is busy, but I'm intensely busy. I'm working nine jobs.

493
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: I think you find time for the literary community and

494
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: to support other authors, especially women authors. So I'm with you, Like,

495
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: just putting yourself out there is vulnerable.

496
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: It sucks.

497
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: I hate asking other authors for blurbs. I feel like

498
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: someone just saw me naked. And the best ones are

499
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: so kind about it, and there's some real assholes that

500
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: are on my shit list.

501
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: That kind of stuff you don't forget, like when you

502
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: when you're vulnerable and you put yourself out there, and

503
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: it's like a major part of publishing a book now, right,

504
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: Like I feel like I hear this from authors that like,

505
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 2: when you go to pitch a book, it's like you

506
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: have to have an outline of the book, how big

507
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: your social following is and who will blurb it?

508
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: Right? Totally, totally.

509
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean it's huge And the fact that you know

510
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: publishers do rely on a large social following bums me

511
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: out so much because I also know that social followings

512
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: don't always translate to book sales. Can but it's a

513
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: lot of work to make it translate to book sales.

514
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: Same with a substack following. I mean I have been

515
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: offering free subscriptions to my substack whenever anyone orders Sicilian

516
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Inheritance and sends me a receipt, but that audience wasn't

517
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: automatically going to convert. I had to do something and

518
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: step in there. And it's the same with with social media.

519
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: Just posting your book on your site isn't going to

520
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: do anything now unless you're like really selling it. So

521
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: I think it's short sighted of publishers to buy books

522
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: based off large social media.

523
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's true of anyone who's trying

524
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: to market anything right now, they're like, it's all short sighted.

525
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: I mean, as the landscape is evolving. You cover this

526
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: so much in Under the Influence, your podcast about women

527
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: who are social media influencers, and you're going through it yourself,

528
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 2: Like where we are right now, what do you think converts? Like,

529
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: we're so bombarded with direct to consumer, whether it's you know,

530
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 2: user generating content or companies it direct to consumer, Like,

531
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 2: what does actually convert now?

532
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that genuine win recommendations from people

533
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: that you have an actual relationship with and trust they

534
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: do work. I mean I take book recommendations from other authors.

535
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 3: That I follow that I really like.

536
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: I take makeup recommendations mostly from my friends, not really

537
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: from influencers, although there are things I follow some influencers

538
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: that do, like Toddler Food. Jenny Mallin, who is great

539
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: and one of my favorite writers and is also gonna

540
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: do my Sicilian inheritance, launch It books or magic with me.

541
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: She had an Instagram.

542
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: About Toddler Food for a while and I would just

543
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: make it for my kids, right. But I think that

544
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: you need like a real connection to someone and have

545
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: to really like them as a human being. To take

546
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: their recommendations these days, and we're seeing influencer marketing shift

547
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: to be that people take recommendations from more micro influencers

548
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: than people with say eight point five million followers.

549
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: Oh well, that really bodes well for me then, because

550
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 2: I am not be more micro. In fact, I'm still private.

551
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: Right well, and you know, I mean I would also

552
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: like I would love to be private, but the biggest

553
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: marketing for my book is now happening on my social

554
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: media accounts, and so I can't be private.

555
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 3: I just I can't be.

556
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: But I do know for a fact that being on

557
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: social media more, which I am leading up to the

558
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: book launch, I'm more and more depressed and more and

559
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: more anxious, and I would love to not be on

560
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: it yet.

561
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: Say more about that.

562
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: Oh, I think the we know that social media is addicting.

563
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: We know that it's making the brain, it's making the

564
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: brain release serotonin and all kinds of chemicals that drugs do,

565
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: and so even just being on it and scrolling when

566
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: you stop will like leave you feeling a little bit lower.

567
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: For me, I follow so many other authors and it's

568
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: a it does feel even I mean, if you're very

569
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: confident in yourself feels like a comparison game, which sucks.

570
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: You know, I want other authors to succeed, but because

571
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: we're human beings with egos, you know, you see someone

572
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: hitting a bestseller list, or you see someone getting chosen

573
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: as an Indie next Book or a book of the month,

574
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: and if that doesn't happen for your book, you feel

575
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: bad about yourself and then you feel bad all day long.

576
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: And all of that information was not available in real

577
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: time to us before, and I don't think we need

578
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: to be seeing it in real time. I think it

579
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: is generally bad for us. So yeah, I'm just I'm

580
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: definitely more anxious and more depressed. And I'm also not

581
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: going to get off until you know, the end of April,

582
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: after this book has made its debut into the world.

583
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I am sorry that it makes me more depressed,

584
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: but you are one of my favorite people to follow,

585
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: and I think it's because of that honesty that like

586
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 2: you're putting it out there, like I actually don't. I

587
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: think the comparison got really old for me of like

588
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: the perfect looking influencers, Like now I want to see

589
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: people who just feel chaotic, like I feel.

590
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: Chaotic, totally totally exactly And the thing is, I love posting,

591
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: like I really, I really do, because I like sharing

592
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: sharing parts of my life. I like sharing the chaos

593
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: in my house, the fact that I'm staring at my

594
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: bed right now because my podcast studio is in my bedroom.

595
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: I have like a you know, like lovely like echo

596
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: chamber in here, but it's an alcove in my bedroom.

597
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: And my bed is unmade because I had a four

598
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: year old sleeping in it last night with an earache

599
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: and just you know, got out of bed and came

600
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: over here. So yeah, like that is real life and

601
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: the messiness of life. And I do like those parts

602
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: of social media. I just I think that there is

603
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: also a lot on there that we don't need to see.

604
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: I have so much to say about that thing. More about it,

605
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: But but I want to talk about your media company.

606
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break for some ads.

607
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: Now back to the show. This is a big deal,

608
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: Like launching your own media company is a big deal.

609
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: So tell I mean, how did you come to it?

610
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: How are you seeing the boundaries of it now? Like

611
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: world domination is obviously the goal. How are we going

612
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: to get there?

613
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: World domination is always the goal? Man?

614
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny how I got here, and

615
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: I got here because of a pivot. Let's bring it

616
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: back to the fucking name of the show man. I

617
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: got here because I parted. I parted ways with my

618
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: distribution and production company and started producing my podcasts on

619
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: my own, started selling my podcasts on my own. And

620
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: what I realized is, oh, my god, I am a

621
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: production company. Like that's what came first. And the more

622
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: I thought about it, I'm like, oh, if I were

623
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: a man, I already would have announced that I am

624
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: a production and media company.

625
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: But as women, I think.

626
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: We believe, oh, we're just doing the work, you know,

627
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: we're just putting in the work and getting it done.

628
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, this is a production company. You

629
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: make media on your own, you make podcasts on your own.

630
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: You are creating a brand for yourself. You're a fucking

631
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: media company. And so yeah, influence media and still still

632
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: getting it up and running. You know, I'm declaring myself

633
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: that you'd and CEO of it, and that's what it is,

634
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: because you know, more and more we are self publishing.

635
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: Substack is a version of self publishing. I make more

636
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: money off of substack than I do freelancing for magazines now.

637
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: So now that is essentially my own website, my own

638
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: magazine website, and going forward, you know, I work with

639
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: traditional publishers. I've worked with every single traditional publishing house

640
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: at this point because I've done so many books and

641
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: co authored books and stuff, and I love them. But

642
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: I also think that book publishing is going to change,

643
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: and so if I'm going there may be a world

644
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: where I'm creating some of that content on my own

645
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: as well. And I want to also be here for

646
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: other women who want to amplify their voices and their stories.

647
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: And so the next phase of this will be bringing

648
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: in more female centric podcasts and content.

649
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: There's literally nothing I love more on Earth, I know.

650
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: Right, I think it's just yeah, exactly exactly, but yeah,

651
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: to your point, like, I just I feel like I'm

652
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: trying to do also what the Kardashians would do. Like

653
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: the Kardashians would say they had a media company before

654
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: they even had one, right, And so I'm like, yeah,

655
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: just like put it out there own what the hell

656
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: you're doing, Own your labor, own your work. And I

657
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: think as women we have taught have we been taught

658
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: not to do that?

659
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went through a sort of similar evolution. And

660
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: at the first podcast that I did at the Political Show,

661
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: when I was still working in politics, I worked with

662
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: a publishing company and fortunately you touched this a little bit.

663
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: But like fortunately at that time, I had the foresight

664
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: to know that I needed to own the intellectual property

665
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: and that they wouldn't own it, which meant that I

666
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: made financial trade offs, like we had to structure the

667
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: way the money flowed differently because so I couldn't get

668
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: paid immediately, but I would own the intellectual property. And

669
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: that relationship did not end particularly well. And it was

670
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: only because I had the intellectual property that I was

671
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: and I needed them at the beginning, like I absolutely

672
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: needed them for confidence. Yeah, but then when the relationship

673
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: ended abruptly and I thought, oh my god, can I

674
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: keep doing any of this on my own? I'm not

675
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: sure that I can. I actually realized that I could,

676
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: and it was only because I owned the show that

677
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: I was able to continue on. And so when I

678
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: started this show, I said, I'm not going to make

679
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: a deal with anybody else, like I'm going to build

680
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 2: it myself and we'll see where it goes. But like

681
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: I it made me realize it was slower, like it

682
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: was a slower build, and I had to keep reordering

683
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: the steps that I went in. But because I prioritized

684
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: owning the show in the intellectual property myself, I was

685
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: able to have more choices as we've been growing.

686
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

687
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And this is advice that I give to other

688
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: women all the time too. And I feel like I

689
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: can say this at this point in my career because

690
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: in addition to working with all of these publishing houses,

691
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: I've worked with every media company that exists, and a

692
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: lot of them that I don't exist anymore, rip Yahoo

693
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: and I no longer There are amazing people at these companies,

694
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: but we can never trust a company, Okay, like we

695
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: just can't. They are out for themselves. They're out to

696
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: make money for themselves, and they will have amazing producers

697
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: and editors and wonderful people you will stay in touch

698
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: with for the rest of your life. But make sure

699
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: you are always negotiating what is best for you because

700
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: the company is and they may not be around. Half

701
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: of the companies I've worked with are no longer around,

702
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: but they still may weirdly own my IP right, and

703
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: so we have to be putting ourselves first in all

704
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: of these negotiations.

705
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that. Okay, wait, tell me what you

706
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: want us to know about the book?

707
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: Oh my god? All right, well, yes, the Sicilian Inheritance

708
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: is the book of the summer. It is a book

709
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: that will get you out of out of your reading slump.

710
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: It's an adventure first of all. It is dual Timeline,

711
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: a woman from the present day chef and a butcher

712
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: named Sarah, who goes back to Sicily to maybe reclaim

713
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: an inheritance and some land that has been left for her.

714
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: And while she is there, she unravels the potential murder

715
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: of her own great grandmother, Sarah Fina, who we learn

716
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: about in the past. Timeline is just like a young

717
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: girl who gets pregnant and married way too soon, and

718
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: she is so ambitious and wants to break out of

719
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: all of the molds of what a young woman in

720
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: Sicily is, and the women of that village come together

721
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: to help each other. Both of the stories are so juicy.

722
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: It is filled with like amazing landscapes and food and

723
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: not vanilla.

724
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 3: But also not gross sex.

725
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean Cicily Inheritance is the best book

726
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: I've ever written. It's also loosely based on my own

727
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: great great grandmother's murder in Sicily, and which the fun

728
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: the fun part, I mean, murders not fun. But you know,

729
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of true crime fans out there.

730
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: After I finished the novel, I started reporting out the

731
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: real life murder of my great great grandmother, and we're

732
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: doing a true crime podcast that will also be coming

733
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: out called you know what, we may change the name

734
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: right now, it's called The Sicily Inheritance. But I'm trying

735
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: to solve the murder. I'm going back to Sicily in

736
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: two weeks to finish solving it.

737
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: And really, yeah, what do you think you're going to

738
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: find in Sicily?

739
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: Well, we went last summer.

740
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: I took three of my children and we lived in

741
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: Sicily for part of the summer, and we found a

742
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: ton of stuff. We went through a bunch of documents.

743
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: We found her death record, where there was a big,

744
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: big bombshell in that death record, and now we're working

745
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: with prosecutors to find the police reports and to go

746
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: through land records. We've found a lot of land disputes

747
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: between her and other families, and there's just a lot

748
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: of threads of how she was murdered in my family

749
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: because we're Italian Americans and we like to tell stories

750
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: and also make shit up. And so some people think

751
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: that she was murdered.

752
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: By the mafia.

753
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: Some people think she was a witch, and she was

754
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: murdered because she was a witch.

755
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: And I'm going to put my money on witch. I mean,

756
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: I feel like, I feel like you're a descendant of

757
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: a witch.

758
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent of Sicilian witch. Okay, so yeah,

759
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: I mean I think she was a witch. I don't

760
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: know if that's why she was killed, but there is

761
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: like a whole witch storyline in the Sicilian Inheritance of

762
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: the book, and so yeah, it's great. I think this

763
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: is going to be, like I said, the Book of

764
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: the Summer, and it's so it's so fun and so

765
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: personal and yeah, I just I can't wait to get

766
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: it in people's hands.

767
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: Joe, thank you so much for coming on.

768
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I loved it.

769
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this candid convo. Be sure to

770
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: pick up a copy of The Sicilian Inheritance and tag

771
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 2: Joe on Instagram so she can see it. You can

772
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 2: find her at Joe Piazza Author, Talk to You next week.

773
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode of she Pivots.

774
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: Check back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women.

775
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram

776
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: at she pivots the podcast. Leave us a rating and

777
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn

778
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: about it. Talk to you next week. Special thanks to

779
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: the she pivots team. Executive producer Emily eda Velosik, Associate

780
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson,

781
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: Events and Logistics coordinator Madeline Sonoviak, and audio editor and

782
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 2: mixer Nina pollock I endorse she Pivots