Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. There of course, remains
Speaker 1: a massive need for electricity, electric power, renewable power. Here,
Speaker 1: I say, as data centers sprout up out of the
Speaker 1: earth like weeds in this country. Enter Governor Spencer Cox's
Speaker 1: Operation Gigawatt. If you were with us a couple of
Speaker 1: months ago, you've actually heard about this project that aims
Speaker 1: to create a consortium and an ecosystem that will eventually
Speaker 1: bring more advanced nuclear power to states like Utah and
Speaker 1: other states throughout the West. Operation Gigawatt to identify and
Speaker 1: assess sites for a potential advanced nuclear plant. They want
Speaker 1: to have that sited and chosen by the end of
Speaker 1: this year, by the end of twenty twenty five, so
Speaker 1: construction can begin in the year ahead. You heard our
Speaker 1: conversation with Governor Cox and the CEO of valor Atomics,
Speaker 1: and we have a different in individual from that future
Speaker 1: ecosystem who is with us today alongside the governor. First,
Speaker 1: let's introduce Spencer Cox, the Governor of Utah. It's great
Speaker 1: to see you, against sir, welcome back to Bloomberg TV
Speaker 1: and Radio. And Chris Levec is with us as well.
Speaker 1: The CEO of Terra Power, which is working on an
Speaker 1: advanced nuclear reactor that would be cited in Utah. Gentlemen,
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you both about how all this
Speaker 1: is going to work and Governor why we're in fact
Speaker 1: adding another name to this list. What does this mean
Speaker 1: today to reaching that new level of power in Utah.
Speaker 2: Well, you set the table very well.
Speaker 3: Operation Gigawatt is about doubling the energy production in the
Speaker 3: state of Utah, something that we need. If you care
Speaker 3: about economic progress in our country, if you care about
Speaker 3: national security, and if you care about just prosperity in general,
Speaker 3: we have to in the environment. If you care about
Speaker 3: the environment, you have to believe in nuclear power, and
Speaker 3: we do. And so we are setting up that ecosystem
Speaker 3: so that the private sector will have the opportunity to
Speaker 3: bring the latest inventions, to bring the best technology to bear.
Speaker 3: And terror Power is one of those technologies they're building
Speaker 3: right now, and the only construction nuclear capabilities happening in
Speaker 3: our country is happening with terror Power. We're so excited
Speaker 3: to partner with Chris and his team, and we truly
Speaker 3: believe that what President Trump has been talking about in
Speaker 3: the Oval Office today is going to happen right here
Speaker 3: in Utah.
Speaker 1: Chris, I'd love to hear about what you are working
Speaker 1: on at Terra Power, because it's a little bit different
Speaker 1: than some of the other nuclear technology that our viewers
Speaker 1: and listeners are probably used to. Natrium reactors are your
Speaker 1: specialty that use liquid sodium instead of water as a coolant.
Speaker 1: Does that make them safer or more dangerous?
Speaker 4: Well, it certainly makes them safer and more economic as well.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Joe, and thanks to Governor Cox
Speaker 4: really for your leadership with Operation Yegowa. And of course
Speaker 4: we already heard that the Trump administration is providing very
Speaker 4: strong support for nuclear and advanced nuclear energy, which is
Speaker 4: the form that Natrium takes.
Speaker 2: You know, I've spent my whole career.
Speaker 4: In nuclear energy, beginning in the Navy, and this is
Speaker 4: an industry that the US created decades ago. It provides
Speaker 4: twenty percent of our electricity. But the fact is the
Speaker 4: US had fallen behind in the last few years. China
Speaker 4: and Russia had many more new builds than US, And
Speaker 4: with leadership from folks like Governor Cox, we're now prioritizing
Speaker 4: and advanced nuclear energy. It is very important for us
Speaker 4: to move to new technologies like the Natrium reactor because
Speaker 4: they will be cheaper and safer than today's plants.
Speaker 2: Today's plants are quite.
Speaker 4: Safe, but if we look at a massive upscale, it's
Speaker 4: really important for us to move to the new technologies.
Speaker 4: China and Russia certainly are. The natrium reactor is still
Speaker 4: a fission reactor. We break uranium atoms to release a
Speaker 4: lot of heat and boil water to make steam and
Speaker 4: drive turbines to make electricity the old fashioned way. But
Speaker 4: by cooling the reactor with liquid sodium, it allows us
Speaker 4: to have a low pressure plant, which is going to
Speaker 4: be safer. It's going to require much less steel and concrete.
Speaker 4: Another really important feature of the reactor is that we
Speaker 4: have built in energy storage, and this is going to
Speaker 4: be really important in the Mountain West where you do
Speaker 4: have quite quite a bit of renewables that you have
Speaker 4: to balance out, and built in storage allows us to
Speaker 4: boost the energy output of the natrium reactor throughout the
Speaker 4: day as the wind and the sun come and go,
Speaker 4: which is a limitation of renewables.
Speaker 2: So natrium is.
Speaker 4: A great balance to that. We're so excited to announce
Speaker 4: with the State of Utah and with Flagshift companies today
Speaker 4: memorandum of understanding to examine UTAs sites for natrium deployment.
Speaker 4: So we'll be looking at, you know, multiple sites in
Speaker 4: Utah for their potential to host a natreum reactor. As
Speaker 4: Governor Costs mentioned, we're already in the state of Wyoming
Speaker 4: building our first reactor there. So we're very happy.
Speaker 2: To be in the Mountain West.
Speaker 1: All right, Chris Well, I mean, that's a heck of
Speaker 1: an elevator pitchon, Governor, We're talking about some pretty esoteric
Speaker 1: technology here, using gravity and thermal convection to enable passive
Speaker 1: cooling in this natrium reactor. Last time you were on
Speaker 1: with this, Governor, you talked about a whole different approach
Speaker 1: to these small size, micro scale reactors. Do you understand
Speaker 1: you becoming an expert on nuclear science or are you
Speaker 1: just calling the smart guys to do the work?
Speaker 2: Well, well, a little bit of both for sure.
Speaker 3: In fact, just last week I was at MIT with
Speaker 3: one of the nuclear physicists there having these very conversations
Speaker 3: and that's the thing. We're betting on all of these technologies.
Speaker 3: And truly, as Chris mentioned, the United States did lead
Speaker 3: the world when it comes to nuclear technology and then
Speaker 3: we made a very bad decision. We decided basically since
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five, the year I was bored, that we
Speaker 3: weren't going to bet on nuclear. The rest of the
Speaker 3: world has moved ahead of us, and that's a huge mistake.
Speaker 3: Right now, as we are in an energy arms race.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the data centers and AI arms race, and
Speaker 3: we have to win. We can't lose this one. But
Speaker 3: we don't have to compromise on safety either. We can
Speaker 3: do both of those things. And the way you get
Speaker 3: better with this technology is to start building it. That's
Speaker 3: what we haven't been doing over the last fifty years
Speaker 3: is actually doing the thing that we know we can do.
Speaker 3: We have the best scientists, we have the best innovators
Speaker 3: in the world, and Utah is betting on them and
Speaker 3: the country needs that desperately right now.
Speaker 1: Really interesting, Chris, Let's say you get a site by
Speaker 1: the end of the year, that's your plan, by the
Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty five, how long would it take
Speaker 1: to have a natrium reactor up and running.
Speaker 4: Yes, Joe, we could mobilize a site shortly after that
Speaker 4: because we've made a lot of progress with the Nuclear
Speaker 4: Regulatory Commission in licensing that first plant in Wyoming. Uh,
Speaker 4: then we're we're looking at about a three year construction
Speaker 4: duration for for natrium reactors, which is which is much
Speaker 4: shorter than today's technologies that require all of the steel
Speaker 4: and concrete. So it's yet another reason for us to
Speaker 4: move forward with advanced technology, you know. And I do
Speaker 4: want to point out we're not only supplying you know,
Speaker 4: AI and you know, important energy security demands in the US,
Speaker 4: but you know, with leadership of people like Governor Cox,
Speaker 4: we're also saying, if we can prove out this technology here,
Speaker 4: you know, we can then export the technology where uh,
Speaker 4: you know, nations that are hungry for electricity are inevitably
Speaker 4: going to be shopping for nuclear and we need to
Speaker 4: offer a US technology, uh, in competition with with Russia
Speaker 4: and China. Who will be who will be peddling nuclear
Speaker 4: energy around the world.
Speaker 1: Governor there's a headline in Washington today that the EPA
Speaker 1: is pulling almost sixty two million dollars in solar grants
Speaker 1: from the state of Utah. Does that make your life
Speaker 1: more difficult when you're pursuing it all of the above strategy.
Speaker 3: Well, it definitely doesn't help. And look, we are in
Speaker 3: all of the above state. We do have an immense
Speaker 3: amount of sunshine here, and we want to take advantage
Speaker 3: of solar for sure, and solar with batteries. But I
Speaker 3: just don't think most people comprehend the amounts of power
Speaker 3: that are going to be needed, that are needed right now.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 3: Look, the entire state of Utah runs on about four
Speaker 3: gigawatts of electricity. We have one data center campus that
Speaker 3: would operate on four gigawatts of electricity. I mean that's
Speaker 3: that's over one hundred years worth of electricity production and
Speaker 3: development in the state of Utah. And they need that
Speaker 3: kind of power right now. So we need all of it.
Speaker 3: We need the solar, We need the coal that is
Speaker 3: still burning in Utah, the cleanest burning coal anywhere in
Speaker 3: the world. We need the natural gas. Unfortunately, we have
Speaker 3: a lot of that too, and we have to bet
Speaker 3: on nuclear, and so that's what we're doing. We can't
Speaker 3: do nuclear overnight. It is going to take a few years,
Speaker 3: but we can certainly increase that time, the production time,
Speaker 3: the development time, and then actually getting that product out
Speaker 3: to consumers. We been short sighted. There is an abundance
Speaker 3: of energy out there. We're the ones making decisions to
Speaker 3: hold that back. Those decisions are now changing in a
Speaker 3: bipartisan way, and I'm so happy to see it. I'm
Speaker 3: so happy to hear blue state governors that are talking
Speaker 3: about energy development again in ways that they haven't in
Speaker 3: the past. Let's not make these false choices. Let's work
Speaker 3: on the solar side, let's work on the nuclear side,
Speaker 3: and let's get it done.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a really interesting answer. I guess these grants
Speaker 1: sixty two million dollars worth. They're a little more than
Speaker 1: a year old. This goes back to May of twenty four.
Speaker 1: Would you ask for these grants to be restored and
Speaker 1: what does it mean for people paying their bills each month?
Speaker 3: Well, look again, we'll look at those grants and what
Speaker 3: each one of those was for.
Speaker 2: I'm going through that review process right now.
Speaker 3: We do know that there was money that was granted
Speaker 3: that is going to be spent on things that aren't
Speaker 3: going to help in the long term. And if we
Speaker 3: can divert that money in a way that will get
Speaker 3: us a better product, that will get us more that
Speaker 3: will again help to lower prices, that's all I.
Speaker 2: Care about right now.
Speaker 3: I think it's a mistake to get in these fights
Speaker 3: where we're denigrating one technology over the other. We should
Speaker 3: again be trying to lift all of these technologies because
Speaker 3: they do all play a role, and certainly solar is
Speaker 3: going to play a role in Utah. It is right
Speaker 3: now and it will continue in the future, but it
Speaker 3: can't be the only role. We had one administration before
Speaker 3: that was trying to stop us from using the technologies
Speaker 3: that we have that exist now with coal and natural gas.
Speaker 2: That was a terrible mistake.
Speaker 3: I want to make sure we don't swing the pendulum
Speaker 3: too far and start tearing down other technologies that are
Speaker 3: going to help us well into the future.
Speaker 1: I hear you, well, I don't know who you're going
Speaker 1: to show up with next Governor, but I really appreciate
Speaker 1: the conversation. Spencer Cox, the Republican governor of Utah. Chris Levec,
Speaker 1: president and CEO of a company called Terra Power. Check
Speaker 1: it out. These new reactors they're working on might help
Speaker 1: to answer some of the questions that we've been asking
Speaker 1: about power in the United States.