WEBVTT - Terrapower President &b CEO Chris Levesque & Utah Governor Spencer J Cox Talk Nuclear Power 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. There of course, remains

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<v Speaker 1>a massive need for electricity, electric power, renewable power. Here,

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<v Speaker 1>I say, as data centers sprout up out of the

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<v Speaker 1>earth like weeds in this country. Enter Governor Spencer Cox's

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<v Speaker 1>Operation Gigawatt. If you were with us a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>months ago, you've actually heard about this project that aims

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<v Speaker 1>to create a consortium and an ecosystem that will eventually

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<v Speaker 1>bring more advanced nuclear power to states like Utah and

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<v Speaker 1>other states throughout the West. Operation Gigawatt to identify and

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<v Speaker 1>assess sites for a potential advanced nuclear plant. They want

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<v Speaker 1>to have that sited and chosen by the end of

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<v Speaker 1>this year, by the end of twenty twenty five, so

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<v Speaker 1>construction can begin in the year ahead. You heard our

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<v Speaker 1>conversation with Governor Cox and the CEO of valor Atomics,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have a different in individual from that future

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<v Speaker 1>ecosystem who is with us today alongside the governor. First,

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<v Speaker 1>let's introduce Spencer Cox, the Governor of Utah. It's great

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<v Speaker 1>to see you, against sir, welcome back to Bloomberg TV

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<v Speaker 1>and Radio. And Chris Levec is with us as well.

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<v Speaker 1>The CEO of Terra Power, which is working on an

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<v Speaker 1>advanced nuclear reactor that would be cited in Utah. Gentlemen,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to ask you both about how all this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to work and Governor why we're in fact

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<v Speaker 1>adding another name to this list. What does this mean

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<v Speaker 1>today to reaching that new level of power in Utah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you set the table very well.

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<v Speaker 3>Operation Gigawatt is about doubling the energy production in the

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<v Speaker 3>state of Utah, something that we need. If you care

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<v Speaker 3>about economic progress in our country, if you care about

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<v Speaker 3>national security, and if you care about just prosperity in general,

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<v Speaker 3>we have to in the environment. If you care about

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<v Speaker 3>the environment, you have to believe in nuclear power, and

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<v Speaker 3>we do. And so we are setting up that ecosystem

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<v Speaker 3>so that the private sector will have the opportunity to

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<v Speaker 3>bring the latest inventions, to bring the best technology to bear.

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<v Speaker 3>And terror Power is one of those technologies they're building

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<v Speaker 3>right now, and the only construction nuclear capabilities happening in

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<v Speaker 3>our country is happening with terror Power. We're so excited

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<v Speaker 3>to partner with Chris and his team, and we truly

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<v Speaker 3>believe that what President Trump has been talking about in

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<v Speaker 3>the Oval Office today is going to happen right here

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<v Speaker 3>in Utah.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris, I'd love to hear about what you are working

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<v Speaker 1>on at Terra Power, because it's a little bit different

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<v Speaker 1>than some of the other nuclear technology that our viewers

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<v Speaker 1>and listeners are probably used to. Natrium reactors are your

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<v Speaker 1>specialty that use liquid sodium instead of water as a coolant.

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<v Speaker 1>Does that make them safer or more dangerous?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, it certainly makes them safer and more economic as well.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for having me, Joe, and thanks to Governor Cox

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<v Speaker 4>really for your leadership with Operation Yegowa. And of course

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<v Speaker 4>we already heard that the Trump administration is providing very

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<v Speaker 4>strong support for nuclear and advanced nuclear energy, which is

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<v Speaker 4>the form that Natrium takes.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I've spent my whole career.

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<v Speaker 4>In nuclear energy, beginning in the Navy, and this is

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<v Speaker 4>an industry that the US created decades ago. It provides

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<v Speaker 4>twenty percent of our electricity. But the fact is the

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<v Speaker 4>US had fallen behind in the last few years. China

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<v Speaker 4>and Russia had many more new builds than US, And

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<v Speaker 4>with leadership from folks like Governor Cox, we're now prioritizing

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<v Speaker 4>and advanced nuclear energy. It is very important for us

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<v Speaker 4>to move to new technologies like the Natrium reactor because

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<v Speaker 4>they will be cheaper and safer than today's plants.

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<v Speaker 2>Today's plants are quite.

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<v Speaker 4>Safe, but if we look at a massive upscale, it's

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<v Speaker 4>really important for us to move to the new technologies.

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<v Speaker 4>China and Russia certainly are. The natrium reactor is still

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<v Speaker 4>a fission reactor. We break uranium atoms to release a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of heat and boil water to make steam and

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<v Speaker 4>drive turbines to make electricity the old fashioned way. But

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<v Speaker 4>by cooling the reactor with liquid sodium, it allows us

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<v Speaker 4>to have a low pressure plant, which is going to

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<v Speaker 4>be safer. It's going to require much less steel and concrete.

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<v Speaker 4>Another really important feature of the reactor is that we

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<v Speaker 4>have built in energy storage, and this is going to

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<v Speaker 4>be really important in the Mountain West where you do

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<v Speaker 4>have quite quite a bit of renewables that you have

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<v Speaker 4>to balance out, and built in storage allows us to

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<v Speaker 4>boost the energy output of the natrium reactor throughout the

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<v Speaker 4>day as the wind and the sun come and go,

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<v Speaker 4>which is a limitation of renewables.

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<v Speaker 2>So natrium is.

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<v Speaker 4>A great balance to that. We're so excited to announce

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<v Speaker 4>with the State of Utah and with Flagshift companies today

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<v Speaker 4>memorandum of understanding to examine UTAs sites for natrium deployment.

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<v Speaker 4>So we'll be looking at, you know, multiple sites in

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<v Speaker 4>Utah for their potential to host a natreum reactor. As

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<v Speaker 4>Governor Costs mentioned, we're already in the state of Wyoming

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<v Speaker 4>building our first reactor there. So we're very happy.

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<v Speaker 2>To be in the Mountain West.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Chris Well, I mean, that's a heck of

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<v Speaker 1>an elevator pitchon, Governor, We're talking about some pretty esoteric

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<v Speaker 1>technology here, using gravity and thermal convection to enable passive

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<v Speaker 1>cooling in this natrium reactor. Last time you were on

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<v Speaker 1>with this, Governor, you talked about a whole different approach

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<v Speaker 1>to these small size, micro scale reactors. Do you understand

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<v Speaker 1>you becoming an expert on nuclear science or are you

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<v Speaker 1>just calling the smart guys to do the work?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, well, a little bit of both for sure.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, just last week I was at MIT with

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<v Speaker 3>one of the nuclear physicists there having these very conversations

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<v Speaker 3>and that's the thing. We're betting on all of these technologies.

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<v Speaker 3>And truly, as Chris mentioned, the United States did lead

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<v Speaker 3>the world when it comes to nuclear technology and then

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<v Speaker 3>we made a very bad decision. We decided basically since

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy five, the year I was bored, that we

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<v Speaker 3>weren't going to bet on nuclear. The rest of the

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<v Speaker 3>world has moved ahead of us, and that's a huge mistake.

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<v Speaker 3>Right now, as we are in an energy arms race.

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<v Speaker 3>You mentioned the data centers and AI arms race, and

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<v Speaker 3>we have to win. We can't lose this one. But

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<v Speaker 3>we don't have to compromise on safety either. We can

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<v Speaker 3>do both of those things. And the way you get

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<v Speaker 3>better with this technology is to start building it. That's

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<v Speaker 3>what we haven't been doing over the last fifty years

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<v Speaker 3>is actually doing the thing that we know we can do.

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<v Speaker 3>We have the best scientists, we have the best innovators

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<v Speaker 3>in the world, and Utah is betting on them and

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<v Speaker 3>the country needs that desperately right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Really interesting, Chris, Let's say you get a site by

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the year, that's your plan, by the

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<v Speaker 1>end of twenty twenty five, how long would it take

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<v Speaker 1>to have a natrium reactor up and running.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, Joe, we could mobilize a site shortly after that

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<v Speaker 4>because we've made a lot of progress with the Nuclear

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<v Speaker 4>Regulatory Commission in licensing that first plant in Wyoming. Uh,

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<v Speaker 4>then we're we're looking at about a three year construction

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<v Speaker 4>duration for for natrium reactors, which is which is much

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<v Speaker 4>shorter than today's technologies that require all of the steel

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<v Speaker 4>and concrete. So it's yet another reason for us to

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<v Speaker 4>move forward with advanced technology, you know. And I do

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<v Speaker 4>want to point out we're not only supplying you know,

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<v Speaker 4>AI and you know, important energy security demands in the US,

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<v Speaker 4>but you know, with leadership of people like Governor Cox,

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<v Speaker 4>we're also saying, if we can prove out this technology here,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, we can then export the technology where uh,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, nations that are hungry for electricity are inevitably

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<v Speaker 4>going to be shopping for nuclear and we need to

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<v Speaker 4>offer a US technology, uh, in competition with with Russia

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<v Speaker 4>and China. Who will be who will be peddling nuclear

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<v Speaker 4>energy around the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Governor there's a headline in Washington today that the EPA

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<v Speaker 1>is pulling almost sixty two million dollars in solar grants

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<v Speaker 1>from the state of Utah. Does that make your life

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<v Speaker 1>more difficult when you're pursuing it all of the above strategy.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it definitely doesn't help. And look, we are in

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<v Speaker 3>all of the above state. We do have an immense

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<v Speaker 3>amount of sunshine here, and we want to take advantage

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<v Speaker 3>of solar for sure, and solar with batteries. But I

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<v Speaker 3>just don't think most people comprehend the amounts of power

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<v Speaker 3>that are going to be needed, that are needed right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Look.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, the entire state of Utah runs on about four

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<v Speaker 3>gigawatts of electricity. We have one data center campus that

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<v Speaker 3>would operate on four gigawatts of electricity. I mean that's

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<v Speaker 3>that's over one hundred years worth of electricity production and

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<v Speaker 3>development in the state of Utah. And they need that

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<v Speaker 3>kind of power right now. So we need all of it.

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<v Speaker 3>We need the solar, We need the coal that is

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<v Speaker 3>still burning in Utah, the cleanest burning coal anywhere in

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<v Speaker 3>the world. We need the natural gas. Unfortunately, we have

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of that too, and we have to bet

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<v Speaker 3>on nuclear, and so that's what we're doing. We can't

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<v Speaker 3>do nuclear overnight. It is going to take a few years,

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<v Speaker 3>but we can certainly increase that time, the production time,

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<v Speaker 3>the development time, and then actually getting that product out

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<v Speaker 3>to consumers. We been short sighted. There is an abundance

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<v Speaker 3>of energy out there. We're the ones making decisions to

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<v Speaker 3>hold that back. Those decisions are now changing in a

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<v Speaker 3>bipartisan way, and I'm so happy to see it. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>so happy to hear blue state governors that are talking

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<v Speaker 3>about energy development again in ways that they haven't in

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<v Speaker 3>the past. Let's not make these false choices. Let's work

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<v Speaker 3>on the solar side, let's work on the nuclear side,

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<v Speaker 3>and let's get it done.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's a really interesting answer. I guess these grants

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<v Speaker 1>sixty two million dollars worth. They're a little more than

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<v Speaker 1>a year old. This goes back to May of twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you ask for these grants to be restored and

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<v Speaker 1>what does it mean for people paying their bills each month?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, look again, we'll look at those grants and what

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<v Speaker 3>each one of those was for.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going through that review process right now.

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<v Speaker 3>We do know that there was money that was granted

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<v Speaker 3>that is going to be spent on things that aren't

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<v Speaker 3>going to help in the long term. And if we

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<v Speaker 3>can divert that money in a way that will get

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<v Speaker 3>us a better product, that will get us more that

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<v Speaker 3>will again help to lower prices, that's all I.

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<v Speaker 2>Care about right now.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's a mistake to get in these fights

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<v Speaker 3>where we're denigrating one technology over the other. We should

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<v Speaker 3>again be trying to lift all of these technologies because

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<v Speaker 3>they do all play a role, and certainly solar is

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<v Speaker 3>going to play a role in Utah. It is right

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<v Speaker 3>now and it will continue in the future, but it

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<v Speaker 3>can't be the only role. We had one administration before

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<v Speaker 3>that was trying to stop us from using the technologies

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<v Speaker 3>that we have that exist now with coal and natural gas.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a terrible mistake.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to make sure we don't swing the pendulum

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<v Speaker 3>too far and start tearing down other technologies that are

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<v Speaker 3>going to help us well into the future.

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<v Speaker 1>I hear you, well, I don't know who you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to show up with next Governor, but I really appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>the conversation. Spencer Cox, the Republican governor of Utah. Chris Levec,

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<v Speaker 1>president and CEO of a company called Terra Power. Check

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<v Speaker 1>it out. These new reactors they're working on might help

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<v Speaker 1>to answer some of the questions that we've been asking

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<v Speaker 1>about power in the United States.