WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: A Stingray Operation 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.760 Welcome to tex Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.440 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.520 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio. And 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.759 how the tech are you? It is time for a 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.000 tech Stuff plastic episode. This episode is called a sting 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.400 ray operation and it has guest co hosts Ben Bolan 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.760 and Matt Frederick of stuff they don't want you to 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.239 know on the show. And that's because stingrays are a 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:42.360 type of surveillance tech used by law enforcement agencies that 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.040 trick your cell phone into thinking they're talking to an 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:50.640 actual cell phone tower. Let's listen in. We were super 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.520 excited to hear about today's topic because it's been something 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.240 that Matt and I have been talking about off air. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.720 Is that correct? Absolutely? This kind of technology that we're 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.960 going to get into a little later. Uh piques our interest. 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.280 You could say, yeah, mine as well. Uh. You know, 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.560 the stuff they don't want you to know shows great show. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:11.800 If you guys haven't checked it out, you need to 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.800 go and and check it out. Check check out how 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:21.880 you guys are looking into various types of conspiracies, things 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.680 that are happening below the surface level that people may 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.360 not be aware of and kind of sifting through the 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.320 information to show which parts of it are you know, 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.560 are really solid. You know, these are the things that 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.800 we know for sure. And here's the conjecture that's been 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.280 said about it. You guys do a great job with it. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.280 And as it turns out, there's a lot of stuff 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:48.120 out there that can really fuel that kind of kind 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:52.080 of talk for good reason. And I typically am one 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.200 of those more you know, I am a little more 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.000 conservative and skeptical with my approach to these things. But 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.040 this is a technology we're gonna talk about today that 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.080 I don't know how you could go to it being 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.440 skeptical and say, oh, everything is fine. We are talking 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.840 about sting ray or I M. S I catchers, And 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.600 so sting ray is the one that I think most 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.720 people have heard about. That's the one that was brought 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.919 up in a lawsuit in Arizona, UM. So I think 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.120 that that is what most people think about when they 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.799 hear I M. S I catchers, if they are aware 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.639 of that term at all. But of course sting stingray 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.200 is just one version of that, and we'll talk about 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.440 some of the other ones as well. So I am 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:45.480 s I catchers stands for International Mobile subscriber identity catchers 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:50.120 or locators, and that is a fancy way of saying. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.560 This is a technology that is able to intercept signals 0:02:54.680 --> 0:03:01.400 from cell phones, ostensibly so that a law enforcement official 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:06.680 could locate a person based upon that person's cell phone signaling. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.160 And it does this, and we'll talk about specifics in 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.960 a bit, by mimicking a cell phone tower. So in 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.919 other words, your cell phone is communicating with this device 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.080 thinking that this is the actual part of the infrastructure 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.480 that it would normally operate inside. Yeah. Yeah, it's sort 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.880 of the same way that are similar at least to 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.520 the ways in which some animals have evolved to have 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.119 camouflage that makes them appear to be a different type 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.680 of creature. Right. Yeah. And one thing that I just 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.920 want to get this out so I don't uh moan 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.000 and complain about it for the whole episode. If you 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.480 ever lost a cell phone or had one stolen and 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.280 had the sneaking suspicion that there might be a way 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.560 for law enforcement to catch it, well, theoretically there is. 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.600 It's just it's just they can't do that for everybody 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.360 because so many people lose their cell phones or have 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.240 them stolen, you know, as long as it's turned on right, right, Yeah, 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.000 and as long as well, And it also depends on 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.160 a couple of other things too, Right, they have to 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.240 have the if they're looking for your cell phones specifically, 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.840 they kind of need to know a little bit more information, 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.160 like they need to know something specific about that phone 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.800 or to identify it versus all the other phones that 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.120 will connect to it, right, because otherwise they just be like, well, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.040 it maybe one of the phones here, and there are 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.520 different ways of looking into that. Right. It all depends 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.520 on what the investigation is and we'll we'll talk more 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:39.080 about how it's used in investigations. So basically, this is 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:45.400 a technology meant to help Again, ostensibly law enforcement tracked 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.720 down the bad guys or counter terrorism officials to identify 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.919 potential terrorist threats before they become a reality. That's what 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.000 it's supposed to be used for. There are a lot 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.080 of people who have objected to it because it is 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.280 it is take making a very wide approach to targeting 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.880 something very specific, and that can be dangerous for the 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.599 sting ray its self. A cost between sixty eight thousand 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.200 dollars and a hundred thirty five thousand dollars last I checked. 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.880 Because there are two different models of the sting ray. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.480 There's the sting ray and sting Ray. To sting Ray 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.720 two came out a few years ago. The sting ray 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.120 obviously came out before that. Because we move in a 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:28.560 chronological order, they haven't gotten to that quantum effect where 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.600 the sequel comes out before the original. Um. Now it's 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.560 made by a company called Harris Corporation out of Melbourne, Florida, 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.919 and uh and this company makes a lot of technology 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.400 that falls into this general category. Some of the products 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.200 that they make are similar to sting ray and do 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.320 similar things to that device. Others are more specific and 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:58.560 are meant to be used in conjunction with gadget like stingray. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.800 you know, it's like a console. Are like you've got 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.400 your connect, you've got your you know, your your dance pad, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.320 You've got all these other things sort of the similar 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.359 thing here, except the devices that Harris Corporation makes. Some 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:16.440 of them boost the signal catching ability of the basic 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:21.040 technology like the stingray. Some of them allow for better 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.080 tracking technology. It all depends on the thing. But but 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:26.839 you know, you may have heard some of the other names. 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:31.520 Some of the other names that include trigger fish, kingfish, 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:38.680 amber jack, gossamer, harpoon, and hail storm. Uh. And not 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.640 only these are not types of stingray. These are all 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.880 individual devices that work in a similar way to sting ray. 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.680 Some of them copy the functionality of sting ray, some 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.760 of them go beyond that. In fact, trigger fish is 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:57.240 particularly troubling. Um. But sting ray it self can be 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.799 really troubled too if you just do a simple upgrade 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.279 to it. And then you're right. All of these have 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.400 things in common and that they all are meant to 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.960 detect cell phone usage in some way and either identify 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.600 it or locate it and or track it. Um. And 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.080 it's how you use these in combination with one another 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.920 that determines your ability to do that. Now, clearly we're 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.520 talking about something that's mimicking a cell phone tower. You 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:30.440 have to have it be mobile because otherwise you just 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.720 have to hope that the bad guys happened to go 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.760 across your part of town. You can't take it to 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.720 them if it's not mobile, right. So, Uh. One of 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.400 the things that this is really helpful for as far 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.840 as law enforcement are concerned, is that they can go 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.520 to a part of town where they suspect someone is. 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.280 They can put out their ears, listen for it, look 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.760 to see if they have any hits that relate back 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.800 to the target they're specifically looking for, and if not, 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.400 they can move on to a different part of town. Um. 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.000 That's also one of the drawbacks, as it turns out, 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.400 at least from from the perspective of some people. Now, 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.200 let's see one other thing. Oh, I forgot to mention. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.800 Gossamer is one of the exceptions to this. Gossamer is 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.680 not about tracking or locating cell phone, but this is 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.440 the one that freaks me out the most. Yeah, this 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.480 is not passive. Now, Gossamer is about denial of service 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.640 attacks on a mobile phone, so it's about it's essentially 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.040 a jammer. No, this is great for all the paranoid 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.400 people in the audience. Are you getting bad reception or 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:39.959 are you being gossamer? I actually and another thing to 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.840 to mention. I didn't put it in our notes, but 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.320 one of the things these devices typically can do. The 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.640 stingray in particular can do this is it can boost 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:52.200 your the signal coming from your phone to connect to 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.040 the tower. It can essentially say I need a stronger 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.240 signal your phone. Then, even though you're not using it, 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.920 like it's just in your pocket, there's no vibrating, there's 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.160 no ringing, there's nothing going on, your phone starts sending 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.960 stronger signals. This drains your battery. So if you're the 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.600 paranoid persuasion, you may also think my phone's battery just 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.880 won't even last like a full day anymore. And it 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.240 might not be because your phone is old. It might 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.880 be because you're getting you're getting sting rayed. You guys, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.400 I'm not kidding. This happening to me right now. Well, 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.200 I'm sorry that you should take more care when you 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.640 are browsing on your phone. Also, Matt, Matt, I mean 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.800 not to make you worried or anything, but you're definitely 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:38.360 on some lists. So I mean, you're on our list 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.760 of favorite people. But yeah, there's one right there. So okay, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.800 So I love this idea about it being mobile. So 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:51.959 if we take that paranoid example, in the vast majority, 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:56.040 virtually every time somebody has poor reception or poor battery life, 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.200 it is never going to be something like this. But 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.240 there's a very small chance, yeah that if you are 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.360 a victim of this, you could literally have someone following 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:09.200 you around, right, Yeah, I mean, okay, to be fair, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.840 this technology we're talking about is at a level of 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.199 expense where it's not likely to happen to you. And 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.520 if you are someone who is either hanging out with 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:24.680 questionable people or you yourself are engaged in some questionable activities, 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:30.280 then you'd be more likely to have this actually target you. Now, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:35.040 because we know that law enforcement agencies across the United 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.800 States and in other parts of the world have used 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.760 this kind of technology, they're the they're the customers there 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.440 once they're purchasing the stuff from Harris Corporation, it's very 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:47.960 possible you would come into contact with this and it's 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.600 not that you are being targeted, but you're still being 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.160 affected because it's just so broad. Yeah, it's like it's 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.880 mimicking a cell phone tower. It's not mimicking a cell 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.480 phone tower for a single phone. It's mimicking a cellphone 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:06.440 tower for the broadcast range of that device. And so okay, 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.959 so their mobile but what what would they look like 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.160 if you just saw one? So they look kind of like, uh, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.679 I mean, if you've ever seen one of those servers, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.640 like it looks like just a basic computer with lots 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.160 of ports on it. It's kind of like that. It's 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.480 usually a little bit uh stumpy looking like it's not 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.000 as wide as your typical server is a little more 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.920 narrow a little tall, but it's meant to fit into 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.000 racks because you can, you know, end up pairing these 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.760 with other technologies. But it's essentially a computer and you 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.480 hook it up to a laptop, so you've got really 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.960 the basic parts you have are the antenna, which is 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.880 important because obviously it has to receive signals sent from 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.559 cell phones um and a transmitter so that you can 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.560 send stuff back through if you need to. You've got 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:56.040 the computer itself, which is processing the signals and identifying 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.440 where those signals are coming from, both what type of 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.800 phone it is by you know, giving you the identification 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.720 numbers of that phone, the phone number that's associated with 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.000 that phone, and the location of that phone based upon 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.839 some triangulation. You might actually have to physically move the 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:19.240 technology around to get the triangulation. You could theoretically communicate 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.800 with another cell phone tower and by getting comparing numbers, 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.679 you know, you know you can generally tell the direction 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.960 from which the signal comes and its strength that gives 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.400 you an idea of it's it's general location in that 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.840 like you know roughly what distance it is from your 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.760 your space station. So it's one of those things where 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.920 if the signal gets stronger, it's closer to you, right, 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.000 and if it's if it's if the signal, if the 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.199 cell phone signal is getting weaker, than you know that 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.000 the target cell phone is moving away. If you were 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.600 to move the van to a second location and do 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.400 those measurements, then because you have the two points on 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.559 a on one part of a triangle, the cell phones 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.160 the third point, then you know where the person is. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.240 It's the same way that cell phone towers are able 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.080 to give an approximation of where you are, even if 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.640 your phone doesn't have GPS. Right, it's sending the signals 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.120 and based upon the strength of the signal, how long 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.440 it takes to get there, all of these sort of things, 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.880 it can approximate where you are now. By by approximate, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.000 I mean within a few you know, meters, So it's 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.120 not like as as a specific as GPS can be, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.280 but it's still good enough for law enforcement to hone 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.360 in on a on a particular location and people can 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.160 sent to the use of GPS. But yeah, so there's 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.160 a question that I'm sure a lot of people are wondering, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.440 which is this stuff sounds kind of space a g 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.400 but how how new? Is it not that new? Uh? 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.840 The the information I found said that at least the 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.960 trigger fish version of this technology has been in use 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:01.520 since the late nineteen nineties. What uh. Yeah, And to 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.040 keep keep in mind, like this technology has been in 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.319 some form of development or another and been available to 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.760 different types of agencies, specifically the FBI would be a 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.080 big one. Um. And it's just that over the past 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.840 few years it has become more common for local law 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.160 enforcement to get their hands on this. Before it was 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.560 something that only you know, the federal law enforcement officials 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:32.240 were able to access. But now we're seeing local law enforcement. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.120 Uh not everybody's owning up to it, but we're seeing 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:39.160 a lot of local law enforcement offices adopt this technology, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:41.400 and they're doing it in kind of a kind of 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:47.600 a backdoor Shenanigan's way, I would say, yeah, we'll be 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.240 back with more of this classic episode of tech stuff 0:14:50.280 --> 0:15:01.280 after this quick break. So, uh, you know, these things 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.520 can be pretty expensive, and obviously law enforcement has a 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.360 budget that they have to answer to. So some of 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.080 them are funding the purchase of this material by filing 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:16.880 it under counter terrorism uh um strategies. Yeah. Essentially they 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.560 say we want to participate in this, you know, we 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.560 want to make sure we help protect national security doing 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:25.840 it on a local level. Uh And then they get 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.680 the federal grant to purchase the stuff. But then they're 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:33.120 using it on a much broader scale. So it's not 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.920 like they're not using it specifically for a counter terrorism 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.840 they're using it in all sorts of cases. There was 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.840 a story about a sheriff whose own vehicle got broken 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.440 into and uh and whose phone was stolen, who decided 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.320 to use this stuff to try and ostensibly to try 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.080 and stop the the string of car break ins. Some 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.880 people would say that perhaps it was more personal than that, 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.120 but the point being that this was not a counter 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.880 terrorism issue. This was you know, someone breaking in and 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.040 entering into cars, which is you know, that's that's a crime. 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.520 But you people have been arguing, like, what at what 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.440 level of crime do you consider the use of this 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:19.520 particular type of technology necessary to employ? Yeah, especially given 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.800 the expense not just in financial terms but in terms 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:27.240 of manpower or time so that's that's one problem, but 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.560 it's my spider sense is telling me that you have 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.960 a bigger problem I've got. I've got so many problems 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.120 with this, So let's let's talk about how it works first, 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.680 because this is this is what leads into where the 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.360 biggest problems that I have where the technology come from. So, uh, 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.720 to understand how this works, you've got to know how 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.360 cell phone works, all right, And we're gonna be super 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.880 high level here because I could do a full episode 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.400 on how cell phones work and you guys would be 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.000 stabbing me because you're wondering why I pulled you in UM. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.160 But typically the easiest way of explaining it as cell 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.920 phones broadcast over radio frequencies, and you have cell phone 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.000 towers that represent a broadcast area. The towers are able 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.760 to accept the incoming signals from a cell phone and 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.159 outgoing signals that are going to cell phones within that 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.439 UM service area. They're doing so over specific frequency to 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.600 the phones. Your phone knows which frequency quote unquote knows 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.040 which frequency to be in because there's a master control 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.320 system that's telling the phone tune into this frequency so 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:34.000 that you can receive and transmit information. Technically, you're using 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.280 two frequencies so you can receive and transmit at the 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.640 same time. Then as you leave one cell phone service 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.960 area and you're starting to get closer to another, then 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.160 you have to be handed off right because if if not, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.959 once you move too far away from the base station, 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.680 you would no longer have service. So this is similar 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:54.720 to when you move into an area that doesn't have 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.840 the towers that support the service you use. So if 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:00.600 you're like an A T and T customer and you 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.960 go into an area that's not supported by A T 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.679 and T, then you're out of lock. Your phone becomes 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.840 a brick, right or whatever's on your phone, that's all 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.880 you can use. So you have to have this handoff 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.840 technology for one tower to hand off the the service 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.120 to another tower as you're moving between them. So what's 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.440 happening is your phone is constantly sending little signals even 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:29.240 when it's not directly in use to say here I 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:34.760 am It's essentially saying I'm here. Yeah, it's exactly like 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.359 paying a server. It's doing this about every seven to 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.800 fifteen seconds. So this is why even if you don't 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:46.159 use your phone, the battery life gradually decreases, so the 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.000 reason it does this is very important because if it 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.840 didn't tell the cell phone towers, hey here I am, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.520 you would never get texts or cell phone or you 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.520 never get a call. You couldn't you just play solitaire 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.720 or whatever. Yeah, because because the sis stone wouldn't know 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.320 where your phone is, so it wouldn't be able to 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.480 send the signal like it doesn't when someone dials your number. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:09.159 It doesn't magically right connect to your phone. The system 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.360 has to be aware of where you are and as 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.440 this constant game of Marco polo to ensure that there's 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.360 this seamless transition, right because you as a person, you 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.480 are mobile, so you can move from location to location. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.119 You are not always going to be next to the 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.960 same cell phone tower all the time. So your phone 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.400 has to constantly, like every seven to fifteen seconds, say 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.200 I'm here. Because if you're in the car and you're 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.040 traveling down the road, you're moving in and out of 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:41.080 different you know, cell tower ranges. So the different cell 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.399 towers have to be aware of where your phone is 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.200 so that you can continue to receive messages, phone calls, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.000 that kind of stuff, or make them. Yeah. But the 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.280 problem is that because of this technology, you know that 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:55.399 this is what makes cell phones useful, but because of 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.040 that same technology, it's also what makes this sting ray 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:02.720 technology possible. So, because your phone is sending out these 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.240 messages and your phone doesn't know where the next cell 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.359 phone tower is, it's broadcasting these little messages and the 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.159 cell phone towers pick it up. Based upon the signal strength, 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.480 the cell phone tower knows if you are moving toward 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.200 it or moving away from it. The sting ray ends 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.080 up mimicking the cell phone tower. So your little cell 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.320 phone sends out a message and the stingray picks it up. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:24.480 Sting ray now knows where your phone is, or at 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.200 least knows that your phone is in that area. As 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.280 the signal gets stronger, the sting ray knows that your 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.680 phone is getting closer to it. If you have triangulated this, 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.480 then it knows where you are. Or if you have 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.640 one of the other devices that pair with the sting 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:42.800 ray that can help track and locate, the sting ray 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:44.800 knows where you are. There's a laptop that you would 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.760 connect to this device that would give you the redoubt 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.919 that would be useful for a human being, because right 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.080 now we're talking all about technology that and data that 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.760 machines could use, but it is not useful to us 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.920 because we wouldn't be able to see it. But the 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:02.680 laptop expresses that in ways that make it possible for 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:08.120 you to see. Maybe with mapping software. It's plotting the 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.840 location against a map, as well as identification of the 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:17.760 phone numbers UM and the I D number that's unique 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:23.280 to that particular mobile phone. So the issue here is 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:29.760 that this this sting ray, we'll accept all of those 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.399 incoming messages, all those things. Yeah, anything that's within the 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.480 area that that the sensitivity of that antenna, it will 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:40.560 pick that up. So is it like, is it just metadata? 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:49.240 Well yes, originally, first it's just, first of all, just metadata, 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:54.040 just metadata, because metadata you don't need very much of 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:58.240 it to start making some very scary conclusions. You can 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.560 start to really narrow down who person is based upon 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.040 some metaday, their routines, what they do in the real world, 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.600 and when they do it, the phone numbers they might 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.600 be in contact with at that time. The phone number 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.160 of the device itself obviously would be very important. So 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.640 let's say that you two YouTube and Ben you are 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.359 you are? You are the cops? Okay, you're in your 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.080 van the power. Yeah, I know, not go crazy. Do 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.320 we have a tank? You do not have a tank. 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:34.280 We're not We're not Swanny. Was Swanny? Wasn't it? I 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.560 was thinking I Swanny. By the way, listeners, is is 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.720 just to the northeast of Atlanta. It's a little part 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:44.840 of Metro Atlanta area. Um and they have a tank. 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.960 So anyway, you are in a van, you have heard 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.960 about tanks, but you do not currently own one. You've 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.160 got plenty of donuts to get you through the day. 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:56.800 By the way, if you were in law enforcement, and 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.440 I am offending you, dear listeners, I'm merely poking fun. 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.000 I love you guys at any rate. So you guys 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:07.479 are looking at the incoming messages that are being hittop. 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:12.359 You're looking specifically for a phone number associated with a suspect, 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.399 a person of interest. You want to be able to 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:19.160 track this person down, but so far have been unable 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:21.560 to do so. You have heard that this person may 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:23.520 in fact be in this particular part of town, which 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:25.919 is why you have parked your van, And all you 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.600 are doing is looking for a hit of that particular 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.600 number as it moves through. And once you do, you 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:35.440