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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 1: your podcast that did not come out on Monday, but

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Speaker 1: today is Wednesday, so it did come out. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy, and with me today is my guest Daniel Goodman.

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Speaker 2: Hello, thrilled to be How are you? I'm great, I'm

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Speaker 2: truly great.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever think about the fact that you get

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Speaker 1: the words Goodman with an exclamation point tattooed on your knuckles?

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Speaker 2: Wow? I should do that, And for the years at home,

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Speaker 2: I literally took my knuckles and I looked at them

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Speaker 2: and went, oh my god, that's yes, I should do that.

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Speaker 2: I think my father will be proud.

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Speaker 1: And our producer is Sophie. How are you, Sophie Swell?

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Speaker 1: Do you know that Anderson would fit on your knuckles?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 3: Oh? So cool? I do? I do. So. I don't

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Speaker 3: have any tattoos, but if I did, I would want

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Speaker 3: an innocent tattoo. But I've thought about it so much

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Speaker 3: that like, I don't know how to pick what that

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Speaker 3: would be. That would be like really capture her essence.

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Speaker 3: She's so perfect.

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Speaker 1: I know that's true. I don't know what I would

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Speaker 1: I'm like every now and then I might get like

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Speaker 1: Rentros's pawprint or something cheesy like that.

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Speaker 2: You know, Oh, that's so cool, that's fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Renschell turns me into like a Disney mom. I

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Speaker 1: got advertised on Instagram. That's like fucking like your dog's

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Speaker 1: face on a Hawaiian shirt. I hate Hawaiian shirts. I

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Speaker 1: have like only once in my life as an adult,

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Speaker 1: worn a Hawaiian shirt, and it was because I really

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Speaker 1: didn't want to, but I.

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Speaker 2: Was like, oh, what if I had rentro What if

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Speaker 2: I had her?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, while we're recording this, not only if Anderson right

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Speaker 3: next to me, but I can physically see behind me

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Speaker 3: multiple photos or huge portraits Anderson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's lots of Anderson in the background and acts

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Speaker 2: on display.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's from Robert.

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Speaker 1: Robert got me a really cool act.

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Speaker 2: Of course, it is a cool ax. It's very cool acts.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I will say I'm currently kickstarting a table. Actually

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Speaker 1: it's that that was last week. You can buy it.

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Speaker 1: You can buy it afterwards. We'll still sell it to ye.

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Speaker 1: But the artist is putting a lot of us as cameos,

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Speaker 1: like using us as models for different characters and stuff

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Speaker 1: in the book. And the occultist has like a spectral familiar,

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Speaker 1: So she drew me with Rentraw as a spectral.

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Speaker 3: Rentrow is like, okay, if you haven't seen what rhyn

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Speaker 3: Trow mag Pist Dog looks like, listeners. Ntrow is so handsome,

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Speaker 3: it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: He's so beautiful. Yeah, that's why he gets away with

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Speaker 1: a lot I miss him speaking of handsome people who

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Speaker 1: are going to get away with a lot Ian. No,

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Speaker 1: we were not, okay, our.

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Speaker 2: Audio engineers Ian. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our theme music was written for us by Unwoman. And

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Speaker 1: this week is part three of our three parter on Star,

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Speaker 1: the Street, Transvestite Action, Revolutionaries, and the Gay Liberation Front.

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Speaker 1: We talked last week about the US Gay Liberation Front

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Speaker 1: and Star, but today we're going over to that land

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Speaker 1: of fantasy and whimsy, the land most commonly known today

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Speaker 1: as Turf Island, which wasn't always Turf Island, and to

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Speaker 1: be fair, still isn't actually Surf Island. They're countless trans

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Speaker 1: people and trans accepting people living in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 2: Sorry James stout.

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Speaker 1: Right now, Yeah, a refugee from Turf Island. For anyone

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Speaker 1: who's not caught up. There's just a lot more anti transactivism,

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Speaker 1: anti trans activism is very visible in the United Kingdom,

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Speaker 1: but there's also an incredible amount of work by trans

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Speaker 1: people and their allies fighting there. Okay, so one person

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Speaker 1: who spent some time protesting the Women's House of Detention

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan was a guy named Bob Mellers who was

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Speaker 1: a young gay British student. He was impressed by what

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Speaker 1: he saw. What he saw was gay and political, so

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Speaker 1: he was like that rules signed me up. Then he

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Speaker 1: went to the Black Panthers Revolutionaries People Constitutional Convention in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy in Philadelphia, which I didn't talk about in

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Speaker 1: the earlier episode but I'll talk about now, and he

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Speaker 1: was even more impressed when he saw this, which was

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Speaker 1: a Revolutionary People's Constitutional convention where everyone came together and

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Speaker 1: had a huge New Left conference, and he was like,

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Speaker 1: so the GLF is gay political and part of a huge,

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Speaker 1: powerful intersectional movement that is gay accepting. I very accept,

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Speaker 1: very into this. He's double signed me up.

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Speaker 2: This. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is the convention where Huey Pugh Newton from the

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Speaker 1: Black Panthers came out swinging for gay rights and said

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Speaker 1: that queer people are among the most oppressed people in

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Speaker 1: the world and are part of the revolution and at

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Speaker 1: it there was the Male Homosexual Workshop where they worked

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Speaker 1: up a statement of like the rights that they were demanding.

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Speaker 1: This is a big part of the glf's rights that

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Speaker 1: they demanded, and the basic idea was gay rights are

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Speaker 1: part of the worldwide revolution I struggle. And they had

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Speaker 1: this banger slogan, no revolution without us, an army of

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Speaker 1: lovers cannot lose, all power to the people. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever heard an army of lovers cannot lose before?

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Speaker 2: I had no. That's wow, So go ahead we have

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Speaker 2: This is just a this whole series has been a

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Speaker 2: a just an explosion of awesome sayings that should live

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Speaker 2: forever and allowed this podcast, this series, I mean literally

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Speaker 2: the entire podcast to be a series of awesome sayings

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Speaker 2: to live by and to hold on to truly forever. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: everything's been great.

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Speaker 1: And this particular one, it's like three thousand years old

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Speaker 1: as a gay thing. What so what some Greek philosophers

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty three hundred years old, some Greek philosophers made

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Speaker 1: up made the argument that a division entirely of male

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Speaker 1: lovers could conquer the world.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Not very long after that, yeah, not that very long

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Speaker 1: after that. The Sacred band of thebes formed.

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Speaker 2: Huh. This is a division of three hundred men paired

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Speaker 2: off into one hundred and fifty same sex couples. And

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Speaker 2: they were like the specops of their army. This is

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Speaker 2: the mid three hundred s BC. Wow, these are.

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Speaker 1: The people who crushed Sparta.

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Speaker 2: No way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and like.

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Speaker 2: My god, I'm sure cool that yeah, so cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure they were like messy and bad in

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Speaker 1: some way. I didn't do enough research, but like right

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Speaker 1: wing fucks love being Like yeah, Sparta, right exactly, And

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Speaker 1: you know who fucking beat them? Teams of gay male pers.

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Speaker 2: Of gay males. I love that. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: An army of lovers cannot lose army of lovers. So

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Speaker 1: the manifesto that they came up with out of that

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Speaker 1: conference that the Gay Male Organization came up with included

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Speaker 1: demands for the right to be publicly gay at any time,

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Speaker 1: and also importantly the right to transnis both the right

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Speaker 1: to change one's gender expression and also the right to

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Speaker 1: change one's body. They were like, part of our demands

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Speaker 1: for revolutionary society is free access to trends of like

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Speaker 1: gender firming care. This is like nineteen seventy. This was

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Speaker 1: widely agreed upon within the Gay Liberation Front, except there

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Speaker 1: are proto turfs for anyone who lives under the rock

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Speaker 1: that I wish I lived under, but don't. A turf

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Speaker 1: is trans exclusionary, radical feminist. It's this argument against transnists

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Speaker 1: from a ostensibly feminist position, and so the proto turfs.

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Speaker 1: A Marxist collective called Red Butterfly issued a critique saying

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Speaker 1: people shouldn't mutilate their bodies, and that also that people

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Speaker 1: shouldn't act gay because acting gay plays into the stereotypes

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Speaker 1: like like acting effeminate or whatever is like bad and

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Speaker 1: you're like helping the other side if you are a

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Speaker 1: hairdresser and talk with a lisp or like whatever fucking

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Speaker 1: thing you actually feel like doing, people should god forbid,

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Speaker 1: people just do whatever the fuck they want, like with

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Speaker 1: their own bodies and like how they carry themselves and talk.

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Speaker 1: The Red Butterfly, this particular collective or sell within it,

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Speaker 1: they were roundly denounced and they ended up actually leaving

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Speaker 1: the movement. They you know, they've been like kind of

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Speaker 1: contentious and people are disagreeing with them. But basically when

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Speaker 1: they were like when this manifesto came out and they

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Speaker 1: were like, wrote a critique of it and were like, no,

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Speaker 1: don't mutilate your bodies and don't act gay and blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah. People are like, get the fuck out of here,

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Speaker 1: and they wrote a bunch of statements about how bad

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Speaker 1: it was that no one would let them chastise everyone

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Speaker 1: for wanting body autonomy. They were really upset that they

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Speaker 1: weren't in charge of the movement. They're one of the

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Speaker 1: main people I found critiques of about the structure, the

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Speaker 1: structuralless structure, and it's I think because they didn't get

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Speaker 1: their way because people were autonomy us. But that's the US.

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Speaker 1: We're supposed to be talking about England now because the

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Speaker 1: GLF is going to England like a sequel, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like.

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Speaker 2: It's like Mary kayn Nashley the Alson twinses to take

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Speaker 2: the UK. Yeah, yeah, hell yeah.

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Speaker 1: England was kind of around the same place about gay

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Speaker 1: stuff as the US was at this as best as

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Speaker 1: I can figure, which is, you know, things are starting

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Speaker 1: to change, but kind of slowly. And there was the

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Speaker 1: Wolfenden Report in nineteen fifty seven that was the result

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Speaker 1: of a government commission of the same name. This commission

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Speaker 1: met for sixty two days, and they interviewed people about

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Speaker 1: prostitution and gay sex. Since they were British and there

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Speaker 1: were women in the room, they used code words. Instead

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Speaker 1: of homosexual or prostitute. They named it after a cookie

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Speaker 1: manufacturer or biscuits. If you're speaking the old tongue. There

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Speaker 1: we go, Huntley and Palmer's is some brand of cookies.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, So homosexuals were called Huntley's in this serious

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Speaker 1: government investigation of people's rights, and prostitutes were Palmers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: At the end, they released their report which was like gays, yes,

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Speaker 1: sex workers no ooh yeah, yeah, I agree, And in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine they passed a law increasingly fucking over

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Speaker 1: sex workers, and then it took until nineteen sixty seven

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Speaker 1: for them to act on the fine. Yes, consenting adult

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Speaker 1: men can bone yay. Yeah, But it wasn't like magically

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Speaker 1: good there not just because gay rights have always been

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Speaker 1: intertwined with sex workers' rights and it's a massive loss.

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Speaker 1: But the gay scene included cruising spots in public laboratories

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Speaker 1: and back rooms of bars since they couldn't meet in

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Speaker 1: the open. Even though it was like ostensibly legal now,

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Speaker 1: people were still getting beaten, fired, and generally treated like shit,

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Speaker 1: and the main group fighting for rights there was the assimilationists,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not even here to talk shit on them.

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Speaker 1: They just happened that they're a you know, a planar organization,

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Speaker 1: a less radicalanization called Campaign for Homosexual Quality. They were

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Speaker 1: probably fine, and I didn't read much about them. But

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Speaker 1: on October thirteenth, nineteen seventy nineteen, people met in the

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Speaker 1: London School of Economics and Political Science the LC where

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Speaker 1: Bob Meller was a student, the guy who had come

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Speaker 1: over from the US. I think there was another one,

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Speaker 1: another British person who had been at the convention in Philly,

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Speaker 1: and they formed the UK Gay Liberation Front. I've read

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Speaker 1: one source that says they were mostly anarchists, and another

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Speaker 1: source that there were mostly Marxists. I'm guessing they're a

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Speaker 1: mix of both, and, like a lot of the New Left,

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Speaker 1: not specifically committed to one or the other of these categories. Ironically,

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Speaker 1: usually if I read they were mostly anarchists, thing, it's

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Speaker 1: because an anarchist wrote it, And if I read they

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Speaker 1: were mostly Marxists, it's a Marxists. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: not what happens in this case. In this case, it's

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Speaker 1: a former member who wound up in the Green Party

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Speaker 1: who puts anarchists first in the list of people who

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Speaker 1: were there. And it's a woman who wound up an

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Speaker 1: anti transactivist and pretty conservative who said they were all Marxists.

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Speaker 1: So like, I don't know, later there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Marxist anarchists divides. It's fucking lefties. They're mostly

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Speaker 1: working class, somewhere middle class. I think the UK Gay

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Speaker 1: Liberation Front overall was less like we are the Revolution

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Speaker 1: than the US one. It was slightly more single issue,

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Speaker 1: but not really. It started to be like we are

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Speaker 1: the revolution. This is you know, we're gonna overthrow global

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Speaker 1: capitalist imperialism or whatever. The founders were very ideological, but

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Speaker 1: soon just a lot of non political queers showed up

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Speaker 1: and got involved, and this didn't water it down. It

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Speaker 1: just changed its focus to be slightly more single issue.

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Speaker 1: But they stayed involved in labor issues, women's rights, Irish

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Speaker 1: liberation and black liberation struggles because they did all the

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Speaker 1: cool things. The London Group's first protest was in November

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one hundred and fifty queers with balloons and

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Speaker 1: flares and fire works, so not rowdy showed up to

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Speaker 1: protest the arrest of this straight man named Lewis ex

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Speaker 1: who was a prominent liberal activist who had been convicted

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Speaker 1: of cruising aka going to a place where gay men

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Speaker 1: look for other gay men of consensual sex with. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't even doing it. They basically, this is a

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Speaker 1: thing that happens all throughout whenever gay, whenever homosexuality is illegal,

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Speaker 1: you can just call anyone gay and arrest them. This

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Speaker 1: happened in the Soviet Union, this happened in Nazi Germany,

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Speaker 1: and this happened in the United States. Have a political enemy, yeah, bullshit.

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Speaker 1: If there's something that is like you can't fucking prove

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Speaker 1: that you can decide someone's guilty of people will do it.

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Speaker 1: And so this was a targeted arrest. Basically, they were like,

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Speaker 1: we kind of hate this guy. He's an activist and

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Speaker 1: he happened to They're like, haha, we caught him in

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Speaker 1: the park where some gay people are also. And the

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Speaker 1: GELF didn't pick this case because they were like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: won't someone think of the straits, but because they knew

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Speaker 1: that laws against cruising were used repression of everyone, and

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Speaker 1: that all of our struggles are linked. And this is

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Speaker 1: not only the golf's first protest, but at least according

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Speaker 1: to one source, I read, this is the first public

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Speaker 1: demonstration in the UK by lesbians and gay men. Oh wow, yeah, huh,

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Speaker 1: And I I didn't find counter or the this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing I like. The reason I say

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Speaker 1: skeptically is that like this happens a lot when I'm

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Speaker 1: reading history, and like, this is the first time, and

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Speaker 1: I like, deer google what was the first time, and

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Speaker 1: I find three years earlier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: The ukglf's main issues were the same as the GLF everywhere.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to stop getting murdered, they wanted to stop

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Speaker 1: getting fired and evicted. They wanted to stop being labeled

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Speaker 1: as sick by doctors. And then also the laws legalizing

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Speaker 1: homosexuality said that gay men the age you consent for

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Speaker 1: gay men was twenty one, where straight people were allowed

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Speaker 1: to fuck each other at sixteen. So like, and this

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Speaker 1: isn't just like under versus over gay men are not

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Speaker 1: allowed to fuck legally until they're twenty one, like not

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Speaker 1: even other you know, two eighteen year old center I'm

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Speaker 1: sure yea, yeah yeah, And specifically, and this is important

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Speaker 1: in an era of groomer panic like we live in now.

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Speaker 1: It was the Youth Group, which is only for members

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Speaker 1: under the age of twenty one, who fought to lower

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Speaker 1: the age of consent. So it wasn't like forty year

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Speaker 1: olds writing to right right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was it was consenting youths wanting to not get

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Speaker 2: arrested for yeah, engaging in intercourse. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have to like cover that so much,

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Speaker 1: partly because it's like, well, I mean, people just call

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Speaker 1: LGBT people groomers all the time and it's just like

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Speaker 1: right fucking nonsense. But it it's like worth pointing out

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Speaker 1: that is something that they were like paying attention to

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Speaker 1: and working at different times.

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Speaker 2: Totally totally.

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Speaker 1: So they had weekly meetings the GLF with hundreds of

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Speaker 1: members thousands all told were involved. But most people would

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Speaker 1: show up. They'd like go to London from whatever town

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Speaker 1: they're in and they'd go and then they'd be like, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm going home and starting this, And so they start

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Speaker 1: new chapters all over the country and members all wear

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Speaker 1: GLF badges. It's like the kinds of like almost like

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Speaker 1: the rule of membership as you wear the badge because

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Speaker 1: the whole point is to be out and proud. I think,

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Speaker 1: like more than anything else, the GLF is just like

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Speaker 1: when in the US and the UK people came out

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Speaker 1: of the closet, like en Mass, they threw dances, they

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Speaker 1: had gay days in the park where they had big

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Speaker 1: public kiss ins and spin the bottle games.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, yeah, we love a kiss in. I know it.

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Speaker 1: The photos of it just rule. It's just these like

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Speaker 1: happy hippies in the park, like kissing each other. Well,

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00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:52,800
Speaker 1: like everyone's smiling it fucking ruly. Yeah, that sounds great.

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Speaker 1: They made a newsletter called come Together Nice. At one point,

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Speaker 1: cops told a bunch of bars or hubs in the

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Speaker 1: Old Tongue, uh thanks, to refuse service to anyone wearing

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Speaker 1: a GLF pin, and the bars agreed. They're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: we want to serve the proofs anyway or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: the queerest is sit ins and the bars relented. Hmm

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Speaker 1: yeah nice.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well that feels like almost I mean, yeah, good

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Speaker 2: for the bars for relenting. And it almost feels like

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Speaker 2: rainbow capitalism where it's like damn, we could have your money.

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Speaker 1: Maybe totally yeah, But it's also like the pub is

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Speaker 1: like such an important social center, completely community. But like no,

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Speaker 1: I yeah, I feel you on that. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: it's a good and a bad. It's a given and take.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we're still glad they did it. Yeah, totally totally.

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Speaker 2: It's better than them being like, no, we're sticking to

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Speaker 2: our guns. We'll lose money. Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so I mean it's just like the ship now right,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I've never been like hol Ray targets getting

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Speaker 1: all the gay money. And then I'm like, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: giving into the right wing against it, Yeah, that's even worse.

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Speaker 2: Don't do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And so Okay, there's this book that came out

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Speaker 1: at the time as a pop science pop sexuality book

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Speaker 1: called Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex But Were

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Speaker 1: Afraid to Ask, And it was full of disinfo and

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Speaker 1: it was like totally homophobic. It had the articles about

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Speaker 1: like gay men basically was like gay men just like

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Speaker 1: sticking vegetables up their buttholes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah cool.

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00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,120
Speaker 1: So the GLF shut down bookstores that carried it and

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00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 1: like picketed the publisher. I think they also fought, same

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Speaker 1: as the US the against like the psychiatric organizations that

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00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 1: were claiming they were sick. In particular, they disrupted a

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Speaker 1: lecture by a man who advocated a lecture shock therapy

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Speaker 1: to cure homosexuality.

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Speaker 2: Fuck that.

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00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 1: Chapters sprung up, and a whole bunch of other cities

346
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Speaker 1: with fake sounding UK names. I only wrote down Nodding

347
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 1: Hill as an example, but it turns out Nodding Hill

348
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:07,679
Speaker 1: is not a city, it's a neighborhood in London.

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Speaker 2: M M you dizzy correct.

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00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's probably over by cock fusters. That's my

351
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 1: best guess, sig, you're right there. Yeah, one more stop

352
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:21,080
Speaker 1: down the tube, you're right there. Yeah. They were radically democratic.

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Speaker 1: There were three rules for joining the steering committees the

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Speaker 1: steering committee. One, no one could serve on the Steering

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Speaker 1: committee for more than two months. Two heterosexuals could not

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Speaker 1: serve on the Steering committee, and three no one could

357
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Speaker 1: serve on the Office Collective for more than three months,

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00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 1: which was a separate kind of the administrative side to

359
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: handle the money and stuff. And the second one was

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Speaker 1: because there's actually a ton of straight members of the

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Speaker 1: GLF doing all kinds of work, they weren't the majority

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Speaker 1: by any stretch, and they weren't allowed to lead. And

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00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: this was mostly like straight like political types like I

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00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 1: think old activists and Marxists who came to help out.

365
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 1: And one of the original members in Mounty Python, Graham

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Speaker 1: Chapman oh Oh is already famous as shit at this

367
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 1: point and he joins the GLF nice and he gives

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00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,000
Speaker 1: it a lot of money. This is yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: King Arthur for Monty Pype for Monty Python, and the

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00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 1: Holy Grail m H and Brian from Life of Brian

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00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,439
Speaker 1: aka the most important actor to my young sense of humor.

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00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: I love that he was gay and he was one

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Speaker 1: of the first UK celebrities to come out, and so

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Speaker 1: they got money from him. But overall they were working

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Speaker 1: class radicals and the money gaze didn't want anything to

376
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 1: do with them because they were, you know, disrupting the

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Speaker 1: everything that bade people, the assimilation that people have been

378
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: building for. When they marched with the broader left, sometimes

379
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 1: they're treated like shit. In Northern Ireland they marched against

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00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: the interment of Irish independence activists, or maybe they marched

381
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: in England about the interment of Irish independence activists in

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Speaker 1: Northern Ireland, I don't know. But then like there and

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Speaker 1: also at trade union marches, they had to like go

384
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Speaker 1: to the back of the march because they didn't want

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00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, you can be here and show

386
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,360
Speaker 1: your support, but we don't want people. We don't want those.

387
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: To be the pictures your front and center.

388
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Women's Group forced their way into the Women's

389
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Speaker 1: Liberation movement, who kept saying shit like you were a

390
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 1: bourgeois deviation to them. Imagine saying that to someone like,

391
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 1: could you imagine going to something like Oh, I'd really

392
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: like to let you in, but you're a bourgeois deviation.

393
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 2: I would bust out my bust out my silk, my

394
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 2: silk glove and slapped them across the face immediately.

395
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Speaker 1: Basically at one conference, after being told shit like that,

396
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: GLF women stole the microphone and led a revolt because yeah, yeah,

397
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: as per usual, it was actually the organized, the organizers,

398
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: the self styled leaders of Women's Liberation who were being

399
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 1: shitty when they grabbed the mic and like they're not

400
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: letting us come in just because we like scissoring or whatever.

401
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 1: The rank and file were totally chill about it, and

402
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: after that the conference accepted les.

403
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: Nice, yeah great.

404
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: Their biggest action, well, their biggest action certainly wasn't buying. No,

405
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 1: it probably was. They love buying.

406
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 2: Stuff, like I didn't even see it coming.

407
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I didn't either. Years the stuff ads.

408
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: And we're back, We're back, Okay.

409
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: So their biggest action besides goods and services, the most

410
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: impactful action at least, was there a disruption of what

411
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: was called the Nationwide Festival of Light in nineteen seventy one.

412
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: And this was this huge conservative evangelical Christian gathering and

413
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: like movement that they wanted to do something about the

414
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: moral decline of Britain or whatever the fuck is if

415
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: Britain wasn't one of the most immoral things that's ever

416
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: happened on the face of the earth. They wanted to

417
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: recriminalize homosexuality. They wanted to put women back in their place.

418
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: No more abortion, lock ups, sex workers, make sure that

419
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: no one saw any like titties or dicks in print.

420
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: No titties, no dicks. Yeah, and what a miserable life.

421
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 2: I know, I know, certainly not someone with both.

422
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: And so so there's this whole thing, it's huge thing

423
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: they're trying to gather our steam to. Oh it's the

424
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: kind of thing that happens all the time now too.

425
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: And the action against this. They call their action zaps.

426
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: So the Zap against it because they're hippies, was funded

427
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: by the Monty Python guy. Nice, and they came up

428
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: with literally seventeen different disruption plans in case some of

429
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: them failed, because most of them failed, right, because you're

430
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: trying to attack this very large gathering be very disruptive. Yeah,

431
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: so it's a wide strategy. Yeah, some of the ones

432
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: that worked. A lot of them worked. Okay, A bunch

433
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: of gay men and women dressed as nuns with the

434
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: noun outfits bought by the Monty Python guy started walking

435
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: down the hall solemnly and then did the fucking can can.

436
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: Perfect and they were That is extremely Monty Python.

437
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 3: I know.

438
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: This entire thing I'm describing is just a Monty Python

439
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: sketch that happened in real life that disrupted possibly stopped

440
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: Evangelical organizing it in the UK. That's so good, and

441
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: the Cancan answers were beaten up for this, but the

442
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: disruption was made. And honestly, we've talked about this before

443
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: in other episodes. Sometimes going into the thing age and

444
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: beaten up is a it's good press and it is

445
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: a disruption.

446
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: It is a disruption.

447
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: Same sex couple stood up and started kissing. They had

448
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: all like tried to get in, but they were like

449
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: carefully filtering through who could get in or whatever. That's

450
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: like part of the why the nuns got in actually exactly.

451
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: And then the youth group dropped a banner from the

452
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: balcony and then they released mice into the crowd. What yeah, Okay.

453
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: A man stood up as like dressed like a bishop

454
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: maybe or something, I'm not sure. He gave a sermon

455
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: asking people to keep on sinning, and then they turned

456
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: off at least half the lights in the building. And

457
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: there's two stories about how this could have happened. One

458
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: is that both are great. I don't care which one's real.

459
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: One is that a group of quote butch men strong

460
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: arms that air way into the church basement and turned

461
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: off half the lights, which I also love, right because

462
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, you gays are sissy and sissy's

463
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: and like, man, have you seen some of these game men?

464
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 2: Like.

465
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: The other way that it could have happened is one

466
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: man pretended to be in charge and walked into the

467
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: basement and ordered all the staff out and then turned

468
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: off all the lights. There you go, Either way fucking great.

469
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: The Guardian headline was darkness at the Festival of Light.

470
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: That's a good headline. Yeah, that's a good headline.

471
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: And that group the Festival of Light, this huge gathering

472
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: of all these different evangelical denominations and shit, they never

473
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: got anywhere. I've heard two versions of why. One is

474
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: that they were a laughing stock because of like dancing

475
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: nuns and mice and shit, and that the GLF specifically

476
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: put them into the ground. That version's great. The other

477
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: version is fine too. They just didn't get any traction

478
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: because people in England were like, actually, we're okay with

479
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: having sex and gayness is part of our culture and fuck.

480
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 2: Cough, it's just part of what it is. That's good. Yeah,

481
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: I like that. I like that, I like the I

482
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: like the unpopular opinion just didn't have legs.

483
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally totally. And it's like and people just were like, no,

484
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: if you do this, we're gonna.

485
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 2: Make fun of you.

486
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: You know exactly, there's gonna be dancing nuns like the

487
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: most popular theater troupe in our fucking country. So in

488
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, the GLF organized the first gay Pride

489
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: March in the UK, and they had banners like homosexuals

490
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: or Nature's Children and gay as proud, one sick protest

491
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: sign they used maybe a lot. I think this is

492
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: like one of their slogans is man as woman as people.

493
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: The state makes us all angry. Oh wow yeah, and

494
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: uh actually talk about why the word angry is loaded

495
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: in a moment.

496
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: And so.

497
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: I often say things like cops don't belong at Pride,

498
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: but that is ah historical. There were cops at the

499
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: UK Pride parade. There were so many cops. In fact,

500
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: there was two thousand cops to one thousand marchers.

501
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: Wow. Yes, overkilled, but not surprised for the cops. Yeah.

502
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: So really, cops have been part of Pride since the

503
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: beginning as the enemy. Their campaign against homosexuality is a disorder,

504
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: one similar as it one in the US, and the

505
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: London GLF had some overlap of the group I keep

506
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: hinting at covering in other episodes called the Angry Brigade

507
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: see our episode about people who tried to blow up

508
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: Franco from a couple of weeks ago. And the Angry

509
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: Brigade nineteen seventy or so was an anarchist direct action

510
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: group who blew stuff up and never killed anyone. They

511
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: hated the state. The state hated them right back, fair enough. Theoretically,

512
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: this is why London Police developed the bomb squad. This

513
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: does not make sense to me because the IRA is

514
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: right the fuck there, Angry Brigade never killed anyone. IRA

515
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: can't say that. Yeh, Nope, nope. They definitely killed some people, Yeah,

516
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: many of whom probably deserved it, many of them probably didn't.

517
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 2: Yes. Anyway, that's the thing about things like explosions, they

518
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: don't always they're not particular. Explosions are not particular.

519
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: No, they are not. Actually, the Angry Brigade specifically had

520
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: like rules about and they would say this publicly. They

521
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: had rules about like how much I don't remember what

522
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: explosive they used, how much explosive they would use in

523
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: their bombs, because they were specifically trying to make the

524
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: point that they were not trying to kill anyone. And

525
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: then it was like disruption things. Yeah, but they did

526
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: at some point injure someone and so so the state

527
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: comes after the Angry Brigade, but at the same time

528
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: they come after the GLF in the same way. Basically, collectively,

529
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: gay spaces are rated whenever they come after the counterculture,

530
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: and to be fair, there was a lot of overlap

531
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: between these two groups. Yeah, one underground newspaper had the

532
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: tagline gay is good, gay is angry and not subtle

533
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: reference to gay support for the Anger Brigade and probably

534
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: man as woman as people the state makes us all

535
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: angry is also probably a reference to this. By nineteen

536
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: seventy two, the ukgolf is starting to show some cracks.

537
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: People refer to their paper not as come together but

538
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: as fall apart at this point, and the central issue,

539
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit like again, I read like five

540
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: different accounts of the central issue that split it apart.

541
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: All of them disagree about the particulars. But this is

542
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: the best I can figure. Okay, after doing this show

543
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: for so long, I get kind of grouchy at history

544
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: podcasts that are like and this is the way it happened,

545
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like.

546
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: How can you be sure? Yeah?

547
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: And I guess it makes sense to come in with

548
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: an authoritative voice and be like this is what happened.

549
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: But like, all I keep writing is that, like, like

550
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: there's some stuff where you can be like, look on

551
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: this such and such date, the following thing blew up

552
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: or someone so died or whatever. But like anyway, whatever,

553
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: why the GLF split apart. The central issue is that

554
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: you had the queers who wanted what was in their

555
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: manifesto a radical transformation of society, and you had what

556
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: were called the straight gays who just wanted to be gay,

557
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: so that you had the bigay do crime versus the

558
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: b gay no crime. And women eventually also split off,

559
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: in particular because the straight gay men didn't want to

560
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: challenge sexism, because part of the like radical transformation of

561
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: society was like, we are going to destroy patriarchy, right,

562
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: And so the gay men were very they at least

563
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: claimed to be very invested in undoing their own like

564
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: male socialization and their own like dominance patterns and stuff

565
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: like that, right, But a lot of women were like,

566
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: we're getting talked over at meetings and being treated like shit,

567
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: we're going we're going our own way, and the straight

568
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: gay men in particle, we're part of that. The straight

569
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: gays split off after that and starting this thing called

570
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: gay News, and their editorial was basically how they should

571
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: save the nation from the screaming red queens and the

572
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: fagots of gay lib It's more of that same like

573
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: the don't act effeminate, don't rock the boat. You know,

574
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm not a big fan of this.

575
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: Part of it. You'd probably figure that out.

576
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we're going to see some echoes of this

577
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: later in the way that some gay activists in the

578
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: UK went hard anti trans decades later. So Gay News

579
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: took over the GLF office, and they had access to

580
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: the money and information services, like I think you could

581
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: call a number and be like, hey, when's the next meeting,

582
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: And so they just stopped giving information out about meetings,

583
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: and in general, this is seen as sort of a

584
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: coup against the Gay Liberation Front. This is probably a

585
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: bias take. It's probably more complicated than what I read, right,

586
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: but that's the best I can figure. All the while,

587
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: the maoists in the organization were mad that it wasn't

588
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: going their way and so they started messing things up.

589
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: I actually think that they were also the straight gays

590
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: running the office, based on some reflections I read about

591
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. So you have this coup, they've

592
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: taken over the office, the straight gays have So in

593
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: October nineteen seventy three, a bunch of anarchist drag queens

594
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: from a collective called the Bethnal Rouge Bookshop Collective raided

595
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: the office and stole back the files for the GLF.

596
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: This led to a physical fight. The queens won and

597
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: got the files. One participant whose account I read was like,

598
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: I punched that old tanky, which is really funny to

599
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: me because tanky is this very modern word for it's

600
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: a pejorative word for an authoritarian communist, right, but back

601
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy it was like the only people who

602
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: use this word were lefties in Britain.

603
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: Huh, that's so funny.

604
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it comes from like Trotskyists versus Stalinists in

605
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: fighting around that's really in fighting. But anyway, after this,

606
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: gay news starts calling saying drag queens are all violent

607
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: and bad and that it calls them like fascists and dresses.

608
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah, uh.

609
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: Exactly.

610
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: But the broader golf supported the queens over the straight

611
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: gays and the drag queens, who were mostly men as

612
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: understood at this time, their opponents called them radical feminists.

613
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: This is the one that's like a little weird split

614
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: from now because they were too radical and they cared

615
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: too much about stopping patriarchy. They were a radical feminist.

616
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: They were radical feminists.

617
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas now a lot of anti trans people call

618
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: themselves radical feminists, right right, Yeah, it's all wacky. The

619
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: drag culture and their drag culture is actually different than

620
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: us drag culture, and even I think different than the

621
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: UK's larger drag culture. It actually grew out organically from

622
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: the golf in a different way. Michael James, a participant,

623
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: put it this way. Quote. It started with jealabas and

624
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: kaftans and long hair and flowers. Then we discovered glitter,

625
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: then nail varnish. Later some of us, a quarter of

626
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: the men, i'd say, at some time or another would

627
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: get a nice new frock for the next gay lib dance.

628
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: Then a few people began to wear in it to meetings.

629
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: It just evolved, and so it was a cross dressing

630
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: culture rather than a and it evolved for street theater

631
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: for the protest, but it was very quickly daily ware.

632
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: These were the radical femme acid queens of London, which

633
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 1: fucking rules.

634
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: That does rule. That's a great name, I know.

635
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: They lived in communes. Some of them ran a bookstore

636
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: or bookshop in the old Tongue called the Bethnal Rouge.

637
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: They took over the bookstore from another anarchist place called

638
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: agit Prop that had been shut down due to harassment

639
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: from cops over the Angry Brigade stuff. I think they

640
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: raided the place and like a bunch of people had

641
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: guns and shit. So I don't want to like to

642
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: be fair. Yes, yeah, So the queens ran the bookstore

643
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: in the coffee house and it was open most days

644
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: of the week. It didn't really make much money. Radical

645
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: booksellers were laid back about selling them books on credit

646
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: and shit. When some homophobic kids started fucking with them

647
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: from like a nearby school, they just like went into

648
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: the school and mass and drag and passed out leaflets.

649
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: Wow hell yeah, yeah.

650
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: I want to read a quote about the bookshop from

651
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: one of the queens, Andrew Lumsden quote. Drapes and hangings everywhere,

652
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: mattresses strown around the floor, and various people came to

653
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: live there and visit. We used to go to the

654
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 1: local pub, which was staggered by these drag queens turning up,

655
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: but it was a standard Cockney pub. They had a

656
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: piano and they liked to have a sing song and

657
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: quite a lot of the people in the commune were

658
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: very good at sing songs, so that made us reasonably popular,

659
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: and we spent quite a lot of dole money on there,

660
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: so that was all right. I just yeah, I love

661
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: the way you get accepted is just like, well, we

662
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: kind of like the same shit as you. We're just

663
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: also drag queens.

664
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: We're all into it together. Yeah.

665
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: And like and also this like culture that I don't

666
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: think really exists. I don't know if it's ever exists

667
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 1: in US bar culture, I'm not sure, but UK bar

668
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: culture or pup culture or whatever has like has this

669
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: thing of like everyone gets drunk and sings these songs together,

670
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: you know.

671
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. And what a good place for a bunch of

672
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: theater kids. Amen, truly Yeah.

673
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: And so I say were men at the time about them,

674
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: because yes, they were drag queens, but they increasingly framed

675
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: themselves in ways that make sense with modern transness, and

676
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: they refer to the straight gays as male oppressors. Many

677
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: of them went on to transition, others stayed gay male

678
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: drag queens. What one write up about Bethel Rouge Queens,

679
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 1: written by one of them, whose name I couldn't find,

680
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: said about trying to nail down gender identity of the

681
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: queens is quote, you can try to baptize your ancestors

682
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: in your image, they may refuse to stay dead and cooperative. However,

683
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's like I see myself in

684
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: these people in a lot of ways, right, But I

685
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: can't be like, oh, they're just like me, you know,

686
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: it's just like fair, Yeah, we all have different ways

687
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: of seeing this stuff, Bethel Rouge. Unfortunately, the bookshop it

688
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: died to what a lot of anarchist hippie cultures died too.

689
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: More and more hard drugs came in.

690
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 2: On the scene.

691
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: Ah especially yeah, nineteen seventy or so, well, I guess

692
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: it's nineteen seventy two or three at this point. Soon

693
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: they were evicted and moved on to become East End squatters.

694
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: East and squatters. Hell.

695
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, not you know, that's fine. So the

696
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: GLF was destroyed from the inside by infighting, but a

697
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff came out of it. Most of

698
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: the major LGBT organizations in the UK today came out

699
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: of the GLF or were started by, you know, people

700
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: who had been in it, including Stonewall, which is I

701
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: think the most prominent LGBT organization. And then there's also

702
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: like ice Breakers, the Gay Switchboard, which came from the

703
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: straight gaze of the office Collective but went on to

704
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: do really fucking cool and important work. I'm not trying

705
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: to be like they all sucked, you know, the Brixton Fairies,

706
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: gay Men's Press, a theater troup called Blue Lips Outrage,

707
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: and a bunch of others. And it was the infrastructure

708
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: and camaraderie from the London Golf that laid the groundwork

709
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: for AIDS activism in the UK too, So so many

710
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: parallels to the USGLF. A lot of these folks died

711
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties from AIDS, and those who survived,

712
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: at least the one account I read from one of

713
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: the queens, he doesn't carry the same kind of vitriol

714
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: for the straight gaze as he used to. Even the

715
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: people he was like physically fighting, they were in the

716
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: end largely on.

717
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 2: The same side.

718
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: And we should do more future ads. Remember that, Remember

719
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 1: that third pandemic of the twenty forties. Those were crazy,

720
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: real bad one. I know I thought that was the

721
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: fifth one. Oh it might have been. I get them

722
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: all confused, but you don't have to keep them confused.

723
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: Now that you have try quarter service that tells you

724
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: when the next play is coming accurate to within three

725
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: decimal points of accuracy.

726
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 2: A new feature for your Apple Watch version.

727
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you don't like it, there's no other choices.

728
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 2: There's no other choice. We've bought out every other watch company. Yeah,

729
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: and in fact, this notification can only come to watches.

730
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: So guess what.

731
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: But it's okay because it's now it's a cooperative that

732
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: all of us are members of, whether you like it

733
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: or not. A and here's some other ads for whatever

734
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: time you're listening to.

735
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: And we're back. Yeah.

736
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: So one of the things I'm kind of like, obviously

737
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: my own bias in terms of what I research and

738
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: stuff is coming into this is but I didn't set

739
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: out knowing this. But the GLF in the US and

740
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: the UK was always trans inclusive. One of their poor

741
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: demands was this right to physical transition. And it's worth

742
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: talking about because there are people I'm going to talk

743
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: about it a little bit who're trying to write us

744
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: out of gay history and trying to write us out

745
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: of gay present, and trying to write us out of

746
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: gay future. But like the ghost of gayness past present.

747
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: In future, these scrooges will learn that.

748
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 2: Anyway.

749
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: One member, one member of the London branch was a

750
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: guy named Peter Tatchel, and he is an Australian. He'd

751
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: moved to London to avoid the draft and he's given

752
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of I know, yeah, I'm like that makes sense.

753
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: He's given a number of interviews on the subject, he

754
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 1: told Pink News.

755
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 2: Quote.

756
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: In the GLF era, the word transgender, with its current meeting,

757
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: barely existed. It was little known and rarely used. Back

758
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: in those early days. Gay was for most of us

759
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: an umbrella word for all lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans people.

760
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 1: GLF challenged gender norms and embraced all gender nonconformists. Trans

761
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: people shared a defiance of gender rules and expectations alongside

762
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: LGBs that gave us common interest in working together for

763
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: a mutual emancipation. Gay Liberation Front members supported the trans fight,

764
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: including protesting at a cafe near Piccadilly Circus that refused

765
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: to serve trans women. We saw trans rights as part

766
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: of our struggle. Alas not everyone in GOLF embraced trans people,

767
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: some straight acting gay male activists were lukewarm or embarrassed

768
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: by them, but their reticence was not widely shared. And

769
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: another quote, this is about the US golf. This is

770
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: from Leslie Feinberg, the writer I spotlighted earlier. Quote. While

771
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: consciousness and attitudes towards transgender and transsexual activists was not

772
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: uniform in golf, the Lesbian and Gayfront did not turn

773
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: away trans people or to just quote from the time,

774
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: the Philly GLF had a newsletter come out in August

775
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. They wrote, quote, Gay Liberation Front welcomes any

776
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: gay person, regardless of their sex, race, age, or social behavior.

777
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: Though some gay organizations may be embarrassed by drags or transvestites,

778
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: GLF believes that we should accept all our brothers and

779
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: sisters unconditionally. And the Daughters of Bolitis the assimilationist lesbian society,

780
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: the very first public lesbian organization in the US, was

781
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: fucking trans inclusive. They accepted Marsha P. Johnson, a non

782
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: passing black c queen from Star Nice. Yeah, so suck it,

783
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: so suck it. This is exactly what they're anyway. Whatever,

784
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: I'm playing into their hands, okay. And to kind of

785
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: tie up with some other pieces of all of this.

786
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: I'm always on about how we're strongest when we're working together.

787
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: Gay rights and gay liberation has been supported by communities

788
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: of faith a bunch of times. Obviously more often they've

789
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 1: been attacked by it, right, But it's worth talking about

790
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: some of the players in that and some of the

791
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: things that happen in gay Christianity at the time that

792
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. There's this guy named Troy Harry. He's

793
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: a preacher, he's gay, still alive. He was born in

794
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: nineteen forty in Florida to bootleggers. His dad was gunned

795
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: down by cops when he was a kid. Yeah, he

796
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: had a He had a fucking rough childhood. I like

797
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: cut out some of the abused stuff because I tend

798
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: not to talk about that much on my show. Not

799
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: because people shouldn't talk about it, you know, just no, totally,

800
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: he had a rough childhood. He was always interested in preaching.

801
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: At fifteen, he became a Baptist preacher. At nineteen, he

802
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: was kicked out of the Baptist church for consentially fucking

803
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: an age appropriate guy. He tried marrying a lady, but

804
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: this didn't stick. Eventually, he started a congregation for Gay

805
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: Christians in LA the Metropolitan Community Church, founded in nineteen

806
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: sixty eight, still around today, and they've done at least

807
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: as much as any other organization in the fight for

808
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: the legalization of marriage, including being the first Christian denomination

809
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: to perform weddings for gay people in the US in

810
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight. So right off the bat, they probably

811
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: formed to be like, doesn't it suck that our marriages

812
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: can't be sanctioned by God? Even though God obviously is

813
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: no problem with us. What the fuck are people on about?

814
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly.

815
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: And of course, most of the gay liberation folks at

816
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: the time were anti marriage because they wanted no part

817
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: of assimilating into straight culture. But honestly, a lot of

818
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: the surviving golf members are married now, and some because

819
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: their politics changed, some because they wanted to publicly celebrate

820
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: their love and it didn't feel like a contradiction. Also,

821
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: a lot of gay folks wanted marriage because in the

822
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties a fuck ton of them were dying, and

823
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: marriage is one of the tools available to people to

824
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: let their actual loved ones be the ones who make

825
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: medical decisions instead of the bigoted families.

826
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: That they've fled and I don't know whatever. I get

827
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 2: emotional thinking about some of that shit.

828
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: Troy Perry. In nineteen seventy two, he wrote the book

829
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: with the sick name The Lord is My Shepherd and

830
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,919
Speaker 1: he Knows I'm gay.

831
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: That rips. Yeah, another title phrase that rips from this series. Yeah, Sadly.

832
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: The reason I bring up the MCC is to mention

833
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: how much repression, violence, and bigotry the gay rights and

834
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: gay libration movement faced in the seventies. Lest we focus

835
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: only on the kissins and parades, a lot of the

836
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: characters throughout this are getting attacked right everywhere the MCC goes,

837
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: people keep trying to burn their churches down.

838
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: Often they succeed. In June nineteen seventy three, there was

839
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: a gay bar in New Orleans that the MCC had

840
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: converted into a church, or that the congregants went to

841
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: drink afterwards at after church they go to this bar.

842
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: Depends on your source.

843
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: Either way.

844
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: It's a gay bar slash church, and an arsonist set

845
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: fire to it and it killed thirty two people.

846
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: Awful. Yeah.

847
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: Until the Pulse. Until the twenty sixteen Pulse nightclub shooting,

848
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: this was the deadliest single attack on queer people in

849
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: US history, and there's a bunch of weird reasons why

850
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: that's worth bringing up, and I hate it, but one

851
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: of them is that like the Pulse nightclub shooting was

852
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: worse in terms of a number of people died, and

853
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 1: we think back about like the past as the bad

854
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: place and that we've made all this progress and we

855
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: have right, but people still hate us and we need

856
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 1: to organize. Yeah, there's one other enemy worth talking about, Okay,

857
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: the anti trans stuff people are currently trying to do

858
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: in the name of the GLF and gay people in general.

859
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 1: Bev Jackson was one of the founders of the London

860
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: chapter of the GLF. She was the only woman at

861
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: the first meeting, so they put her on the steering

862
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: committee to start. She implies that she was like on

863
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: the steering committee the whole time, but as we learned earlier,

864
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: no one stayed on that for more than two months,

865
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: so she's just playing that up for kred.

866
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 2: Interesting.

867
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: Unlike every other founder I've listened to an interview from

868
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: instead of going on to champion for the rights of

869
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: LGBT people, she started a hate group called the lgb Allion,

870
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: which is an anti trans advocacy group. Yeah, man, Yeah,

871
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: they've got some greatest hits. They've campaigned to make sure

872
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: that conversion therapy stays legal for trans kids while opposing

873
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: it for gay kids. Yeah, generally doing literally everything that

874
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: the anti gay world does to gay people, but specifically

875
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: to trans people instead. Also campaigning against Planned Parenthood and

876
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: the ACLU for being trans accepting, also campaigning against Pride Month,

877
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: also comparing transsexuality to beast reality, which is again what

878
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: anti gay people say about gay people. The LGB Alliance

879
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: spends a lot of their time hanging out with conservatives.

880
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: They gave a press badge to friend of cool Zone Media.

881
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: Can you can you think of.

882
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,320
Speaker 2: I'll give you a hint? Okay, the worst possible person

883
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: to give.

884
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: S Portland journalist who specifically comes up a lot.

885
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: Uh would it happened to be? I don't know if

886
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 2: this person is actually from Portland, but I know that

887
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 2: they're part of it? Is it is it? Andy? No?

888
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? That guy.

889
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: Throw more silicone cylinders at Andy No. Three.

890
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: So that's who they invited to their to their conference

891
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 1: and gave a press badge too. One of their co founders,

892
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: Malcolm Clark, was like, there shouldn't be LGBT clubs in

893
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: schools because sex teachers will sexually pray on students, which gross.

894
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: This isn't even the same thing people said about gay

895
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: people but about trans people. He's literally saying it about

896
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: gay people now, like they're actually just an anti gay organization.

897
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: They've come out claiming that gay dance clubs spread disease.

898
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:52,959
Speaker 1: They are just far right.

899
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: Your mongering nonsense.

900
00:48:54,560 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the LGB Yeah. And then even in a country

901
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: like the UK, I was like thinking about, like, oh,

902
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to call them a hate group. They're probably

903
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: really sue happy. But I live in the United States,

904
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: where we have so better libel protections or whatever. Even

905
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: in the UK, where it's really easy to sue people

906
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 1: for libel, people openly refer to them as a hate group.

907
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: Oh great, well good. If they're going to openly be

908
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: a hate group, they may as well openly be referred

909
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: to as one.

910
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly one more of these things. Okay, there's a group.

911
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, there was a group that called

912
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 1: itself the New Gay Liberation Front. Fortunately it never really

913
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: got off the ground. I suspect it was just some

914
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: turfs on Twitter. It claims to be the new GLF

915
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: fighting against the new homophobia, which is wait for it,

916
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: the existence of trans people. The existence of trans people

917
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: is homophobia. They consider being trans to be a form

918
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: of conversion therapy.

919
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 2: What And they.

920
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: Also were like and one of the original GLF people

921
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: is like on our side, and they like cite this

922
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: particular guy who later was like, okay, you got me.

923
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't actually in the golf like. Fortunately, because there's

924
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: a lot of old the GLF people are still around,

925
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: the ones who made it through the eighties and shit,

926
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: a lot of them are alive and they are not

927
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: fucking putting.

928
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: Up with this shit.

929
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: Even the ones who are like all like politicians and

930
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: shit now whatever, Like they're like, no, we can't. Don't

931
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: fucking do this to us. So there's this guy, Mark Siegel,

932
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: an original GLF firm, and uh and he wrote quote

933
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: about the new GLF. He qu wrote about, well, he's

934
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: talking about the old GLF.

935
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 2: Quote.

936
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: We were the first organization that allowed each person to

937
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: self identify, not pit one identity against another. Are they

938
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: the identity police? That was his response.

939
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: That's funny, that's good.

940
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: So that's the story about how when we work together,

941
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: realizing our struggles are united, we win. I usually know

942
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: these this like wrap up thing, but I'm doing a

943
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: wrap up on this three letter.

944
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 2: I love it.

945
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: How queer people fought for straight people, straight people fought

946
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: for queer people, lesbians fought for gay men, gay men

947
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: fought for lesbians. Bisexuality was celebrated as a pure expression

948
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: of queer love. Drag queens and trans people have always

949
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: been part of it. How people have different faiths from

950
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: secular to New Age to deeply religious, have supported each other.

951
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: To how white queer supported black liberation, to how Puerto

952
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: Rican queers were protected by Puerto Rican straight radicals. How

953
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: even some Marxist and anarchists and social democrats and single

954
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: issue non ideological folks just fucking made the world better

955
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: by refusing to lay down and die. And how even

956
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: the assimilationists stood by the radicals when push came to shove.

957
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: So thank you Gay Liberation Front, Thank you everyone who

958
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: came before. Thanks for setting the stage. There's more fighting

959
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: to do. We can do it together because an army

960
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: of lovers cannot lose.

961
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeay, thanks thanks spectacular wrap up right there? Thanks?

962
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, I got while I was writing this I

963
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: was just like, usually when I research episodes, I kind

964
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: of like have a friend or two that I like

965
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: call and just like rant about everything that I'm writing

966
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: for sure, And in this one, I'm just like, oh

967
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: my god, this is just like when we fight, we win,

968
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: and like even by yeah, by fighting we are winning

969
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 1: and yes, so.

970
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: One hundred yeah it is to not back down. An

971
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: army of lovers cannot be beaten. Yeah. I love that.

972
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: That's really wonderful.

973
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: Thanks. Do you have anything that you would like to

974
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,240
Speaker 1: plug here at the end of all things?

975
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: Oh geez, well, you know, if you've stuck around for

976
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: all three parts, you've heard me plugged my twitch three times,

977
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: so yeah, or twice? So what's one more? Twitch dot tv,

978
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 2: slash DJ Underscore, Danel, Come on by. We're playing games

979
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 2: and having fun. You can you can press buttons on

980
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: my stream that make weird things happen, like zombies pop

981
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: up and yell in my face. I love a jump scare.

982
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: I mean I don't, but I know that you love

983
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: to see me react to a job scare, so that

984
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 2: you go come on by. It's lots of fun. Support

985
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: Margaret support all of the podcasts on the network. Uh,

986
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: subscribe to coolers on media, go listen to podcasts. In general,

987
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 2: I love that the medium of podcasting is seen as

988
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 2: this Like I'll put it this way. I love that

989
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: it's a trend on TikTok, despite how horrible TikTok is

990
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 2: in general. But I love that it's a trend on

991
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,720
Speaker 2: TikTok of people making fake podcasts or just like talking

992
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: to a mic as if they're on a podcast to

993
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: lend credence to whatever they're saying, because it doesn't mean

994
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 2: that what they're saying is true, but it means that

995
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 2: they think appearing on a podcast is important. And let

996
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 2: me tell you, folks, we love that here. Podcasts are important.

997
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 2: So enjoy podcasting. Hell yeah, helly, hell yeah, Sophie, what

998
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 2: do you got?

999
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 3: No, Daniel did it?

1000
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: I'm good, Okay, Sorry.

1001
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to. I wasn't trying to take your

1002
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: bag round.

1003
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 3: Now it's so perfect.

1004
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: And you've already heard me talk about all the things.

1005
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: And I plugged my Kickstarter up at the top. But

1006
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 1: take care of each other and de escalate all conflict

1007
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: that isn't with the enemy. That's what I got to plug.

1008
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 2: That's nice. Yeah, less and less in fighting, more out fighting. Yes,

1009
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:06,879
Speaker 2: yeah we can.

1010
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: We can disagree with each other, we can have people

1011
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: we don't want to work with, but you know we

1012
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: got we've got people trying to kill us and we

1013
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: shouldn't let them.

1014
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 2: Amen, and we'll see you all next week.

1015
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 3: By Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production

1016
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 3: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1017
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 3: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1018
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1019
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: your podcasts.