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Speaker 1: On The Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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Speaker 1: and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn bast

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Speaker 1: start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Caitlyn, Yes, Jamie. If there's one thing I've always said,

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Speaker 2: it's this. Here's a list of things there's no need

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Speaker 2: to know anything about. There's no need to know to

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Speaker 2: know anything about the president's war numbers, science or intersectional feminism.

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Speaker 3: And I've always said.

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Speaker 4: That, Yeah, I'll just listen to you and I'll know

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Speaker 4: everything I need to know.

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Speaker 3: This is this is the most quotable movie of all time.

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Speaker 2: Caitlin, you little bitch, Let me out of this bird cage.

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Speaker 4: Look look, my favorite line is we rarely eat any

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Speaker 4: type of noodle, but I'll have a small portion to

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Speaker 4: be polite.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Steven a ship kicker, and I'd like to

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Speaker 2: have a podcast called the Bechdel Cast. Name what's your

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Speaker 2: favorite line? Listener, Pretend we opened the episode with it.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the only movies where every line

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Speaker 2: is quotable and every.

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Speaker 3: Line is screamed.

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Speaker 2: It is the Female Trouble episode of the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 2: I am a shit kicker and I would also like

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Speaker 2: to be famous.

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Speaker 4: My name is Caitlin Durante. I am a little bitch

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Speaker 4: and I would also like to be famous. Yea, this

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Speaker 4: is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional

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Speaker 4: feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping

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Speaker 4: off point to get a conversation going. But Jamie, what

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Speaker 4: in the hell? I'm gonna scream the entire episode just

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Speaker 4: like divine? What in the hell is the Bechdel Test?

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Speaker 4: Jamie love, keep bitch?

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Speaker 3: Oops, all screamed? Okay.

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Speaker 2: The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by cartoonist

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Speaker 2: Alison Bechdel, friend of the show, originally made in her

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Speaker 2: comic collection Likes to Watch Out For as a one off,

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Speaker 2: a joke to sort of draw attention to the fact

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Speaker 2: that there were never lesbian romances in movies. It hasn't

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Speaker 2: been adapted to a more mainstream way. There's a million

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Speaker 2: versions of it. The version of the test we use

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Speaker 2: as this to characters with names of a marginalized gender

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Speaker 2: speak to each other about something other than a man

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Speaker 2: for two lines of dollog or more. That is somehow,

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Speaker 2: you know, plot relevant, really not something we're going to

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Speaker 2: have to split hairs with on the movie we're discussing today.

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Speaker 3: It's maybe the least.

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Speaker 2: Interesting thing about the movie we're discussing today, because the

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Speaker 2: movie we're discussing today is Female Trouble from John Waters

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Speaker 2: and Divine not necessarily in that order, from nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 2: And we have an incredible guest to discuss this wonderful

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Speaker 2: movie with.

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Speaker 4: We certainly do. She's a comedian and host of the

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Speaker 4: podcasts Ghosted and Tickled to Death, a horror movie game

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Speaker 4: show podcast from Paramount. It's Roz Hernandez Female givel hi Hi,

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Speaker 4: thanks for being here.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm so excited to be here. When

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Speaker 5: I got the list of potential movies and I saw

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Speaker 5: this one, I had to I had.

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Speaker 6: To go with this one.

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Speaker 5: It's it's it's it's a fave of mine. I'm a

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Speaker 5: John Waters lady.

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Speaker 4: Well tell yeah, tell us all about your relationship to

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Speaker 4: John Waters. Ouvra to this movie specifically.

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Speaker 5: So my life changed in two thousand and three. I

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Speaker 5: was right at a good age where I was very

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Speaker 5: impressionable and trying to trying to find my tribe and

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Speaker 5: trying to find what I was really interested in. I

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Speaker 5: just I was preteen at the time, and I was

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Speaker 5: just sort of, I don't know. I wanted to find

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Speaker 5: my people. I wanted to find my thing. And I

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Speaker 5: had a subscription to Entertainment Weekly and they released a

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Speaker 5: entire issue that was ranking the best I think it

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Speaker 5: was fifty cult movies of all time. And I didn't

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Speaker 5: have that word meant or anything, but I was just

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Speaker 5: looking at all the movies and just based on the

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Speaker 5: pictures and the descriptions, I was like, I gotta see

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Speaker 5: all these and it was like Faster pussycag Kill Kill,

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Speaker 5: and Rocky Horror and just so many of these movies

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Speaker 5: that just completely shaped me and showed me really strong

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Speaker 5: women and gender variant people and drag queens and just

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Speaker 5: all of these things. I didn't know about it. I

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Speaker 5: learned so much from that. And Pink Flamingos was on

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Speaker 5: the list, and that movie was technically unrated, like the

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Speaker 5: DVD of it was unrated, so I could to the

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Speaker 5: movie rental plays and rent technically because.

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Speaker 2: As Apprett, that's genius.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that. So I watched that movie when

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Speaker 5: my parents were out of town because I wasn't I

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Speaker 5: honestly wasn't sure if it was like a porn or

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Speaker 5: what it was. But I was just like, I can't

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Speaker 5: have my parents though I'm watching them. And I was

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Speaker 5: so fascinated by it. And then that led me to

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Speaker 5: exploring John Waters and Female Trouble, which I think Female

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Speaker 5: Trouble is his best movie. It's definitely like his most

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Speaker 5: John Waters the It's definitely a big divine Uh.

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Speaker 2: God, this is I know that this is. This is

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Speaker 2: his movie, but it's divines movie. It is just like

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Speaker 2: one of the most performances I've ever witnessed. It's so good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Jimmie, what's your history with John Waters and this movie?

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Speaker 3: So I'm embarrassed to say this is.

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Speaker 2: I was worried this was going to happen. I thought

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Speaker 2: I had seen this movie. I had, in fact seen

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Speaker 2: Pink Flamingos. Yeah, what can I say? I got it wrong.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't seen this movie before.

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Speaker 2: Weirdly, my relationship with John Waters, I'm like very slowly

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Speaker 2: making my way through his filmography at my advanced age.

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Speaker 2: But when I was a kid, I really liked reading

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Speaker 2: his memoirs because he's written a lot of books too,

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Speaker 2: and I remember really enjoying it, Like I would get

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Speaker 2: his memoirs from the library and they're so funny, and

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Speaker 2: I like felt I had like a similar experience with

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Speaker 2: David Lynch, where I like fell in love with like

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Speaker 2: watching interviews and like reading their stuff. But I like

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Speaker 2: was very slow to watch the movies, no real accounting

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Speaker 2: for it, but I'm slowly making my way through his work.

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Speaker 2: I saw Pink Flamingos in college and really loved it,

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Speaker 2: and it has, you know, shares a lot of similarities

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Speaker 2: with Female Trouble, but I don't know, Female Trouble is

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Speaker 2: so special, it's just like its own thing. So this

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Speaker 2: was my first time seeing Female Trouble. But I really

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Speaker 2: liked the Academy Museum John Waters exhibit that I think

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Speaker 2: was last year.

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Speaker 3: That was amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that like inspired me to go back and

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Speaker 2: watch stuff that I hadn't watched, which is how we

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Speaker 2: recently covered Serial Mom, which is one of my eavorites.

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Speaker 2: Kathleen Turner John Water together is such a powerful combo.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, this was this was one of the few

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Speaker 2: that I for some reason hadn't gotten around to you,

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Speaker 2: probably because I thought I'd seen it already. And holy shit,

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Speaker 2: I just I just can't wait.

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Speaker 3: To talk about it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm very excited to go back and reread some

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Speaker 2: of his books because I just have such nice memories

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Speaker 2: of reading them.

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Speaker 5: They're amazing. I yes, I have all of his books.

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Speaker 5: And one really fun thing is Provincetown in Massachusetts is

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Speaker 5: one of my favorite plays in the world.

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Speaker 3: It's great.

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Speaker 5: And he lives there, and there's a bookstore there that

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Speaker 5: sells all of his books and he just goes in

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Speaker 5: when he has the time and signs them and they're

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Speaker 5: all no markup or anything like, there's the same price.

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Speaker 5: And so I rebought all of his books autographed, because

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Speaker 5: why god, yeah, why not.

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Speaker 2: I'm from Massachusetts and my family or my cousin's family

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Speaker 2: goes every year.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know if I brought this up. In

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Speaker 3: the serial one.

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Speaker 2: Episode, my niece, who's like five, has this awesome picture

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Speaker 2: with John Patters.

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Speaker 3: It's so cute.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh God, she's gonna be so thrilled

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Speaker 2: when she knows what this picture means when she's older.

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Speaker 2: I just it was but for her it was like

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Speaker 2: a nice man who she saw after.

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Speaker 3: A drag brunch or whatever.

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Speaker 5: Sure, but my cousin was.

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Speaker 3: Like, you're not going to believe what we did today. God,

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Speaker 3: that's so nice.

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Speaker 2: He's such a community person too. I love hearing stories

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Speaker 2: about his like how you know how great he is

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Speaker 2: at keeping up with friends and like sending out the

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Speaker 2: Christmas cards and.

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Speaker 3: The and the book collections.

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Speaker 2: And then I just he's just such a good vibe.

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Speaker 5: Well, he stays busier than ever, which I think personally

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Speaker 5: it's like another thing I learned from Joan Rivers. Just

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Speaker 5: I completely understand retiring and just sort of relaxing and whatever,

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Speaker 5: but also these people with these creative ideas and they

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Speaker 5: have to keep making and I'm sure there's that that

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Speaker 5: can be its own hell of trying to constantly top

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Speaker 5: yourself and whatever. But they keep going. And John Waters,

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Speaker 5: who's in his eighties, is sharper than ever. Yeah, and

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Speaker 5: he is doing events all the time, just like a

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago he was doing is screening here

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Speaker 5: in la. He has his camp that he does where

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Speaker 5: adults come and do John Waters themed events. So he's

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Speaker 5: always traveling around doing different I actually saw the screening

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Speaker 5: of serial Mom during that Academy show that they had

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Speaker 5: and he was there doing a Q and A. Like

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Speaker 5: he's just he's all.

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Speaker 4: Over the place.

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Speaker 2: He loves to yap.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and he keeps his ideas going. He's got a

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Speaker 5: lot to say.

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Speaker 2: I really I this is like unrelated, but it's something

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Speaker 2: I've been on my mind recently where it's like retirement

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Speaker 2: is a good thing because of labor laws. But I

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Speaker 2: do think there's certain people, there's a certain personality of

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Speaker 2: profile where retirement like quickens your death.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I just believe that.

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Speaker 2: I think about I've been thinking about that, and he's

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Speaker 2: one of those people. Like some people just need to

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Speaker 2: keep making stuff, and I like that, Like John Waters

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Speaker 2: specifically is a great person to keep making stuff because

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Speaker 2: he's not precious about everything like some creatives are. Like

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Speaker 2: he's still steems down to experiment and try new stuff

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Speaker 2: and like be open to failure, which after a career

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Speaker 2: like the career he's had.

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Speaker 3: I think that's so amazing. I don't know if I

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Speaker 3: would be able to do that.

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Speaker 4: Like it's it's just awesome.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think from from the start he had a

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Speaker 5: lot of failure and he was just sort of like, well, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: there's gonna be people that are gonna hate everything I do,

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Speaker 5: but there's also gonna be people that really love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I think I think it's all people LISTA. I think

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Speaker 5: we all need to have purpose or we have to

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Speaker 5: contribute to the universe in some way, and if we're

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Speaker 5: not doing that, Like I do think that if you

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Speaker 5: retire and then you just sit and watch TV, you're

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Speaker 5: gonna die and it's gonna be bad. Like you you

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Speaker 5: just have to even if it's like take up knitting

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Speaker 5: and make things that you can give to people. Like

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Speaker 5: it doesn't have to be financial or whatever, but it's

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Speaker 5: like you just have to keep those you have to

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Speaker 5: keep the juices flouid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I volunteer with a lot of retirees who

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Speaker 2: are like, they're like, this is my new job, and

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Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, like it's just purpose.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well also for artists, yea. You know, it's like it's

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Speaker 4: one thing to work as a CPA for whatever forty

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Speaker 4: years and then retire, But if you're inherently a creative

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Speaker 4: person or you've always been an artist, you're not gonna

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Speaker 4: just like stop making art because you're sixty five.

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Speaker 5: Now I have to keep going.

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Speaker 4: You got to keep going, Caitlin.

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Speaker 5: What's your relationship with John Waters?

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for asking. I

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Speaker 4: like John Waters as a persona, as a public figure,

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Speaker 4: and I like the campiness and the subversive nature of

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Speaker 4: his work more than the actual work itself.

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Speaker 5: Fair, I get it.

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Speaker 4: I saw Pink Flamingos in college. Also is during the

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Speaker 4: Great Caitlin movie binge of two thousand and five.

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Speaker 2: I feel like Pink Flamingos is on every list, regardless

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Speaker 2: of what the list issue.

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Speaker 3: On every single list.

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Speaker 4: If you're a film student, you have to see Pink Flamingos.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna see this damn movie.

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Speaker 4: And I did it, and I was like, M, this

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Speaker 4: is not for me. I understand why it's a cult classic.

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Speaker 4: I understand why it has like it has such a

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Speaker 4: huge cult following. I'm just not I think I'm too straight.

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Speaker 4: I'm just not the audience for it. It's not for me,

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Speaker 4: and that's okay. But I do love John Waters again

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Speaker 4: as a public figure and as an artist. I just

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Speaker 4: every movie of his that I've seen, for the most part,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, M, this is not the one for me.

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Speaker 5: Exactly did you feel that way.

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Speaker 4: With Serial Mom not as much, because that, as we

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Speaker 4: discussed on that episode, is probably the closest thing he

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Speaker 4: has to a mainstream Hollywood movie, right. And then I

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Speaker 4: like the hair Spray, like the two thousand and seven

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Speaker 4: hair Spray musical that's an adaptation of his original Hairspray

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Speaker 4: from the eighties, but he didn't direct the two thousand

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Speaker 4: and seven to one, so it's not that's not a

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Speaker 4: John Waters movie. I did see Crybaby also in college.

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen Crybaby.

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Speaker 4: It's also main's like more mainstream, but maybe that's just

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Speaker 4: because like Johnny Depp is in it. But I don't

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Speaker 4: remember that one very well. And there's several other of

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Speaker 4: his movies that I haven't watched, so I don't have

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Speaker 4: like the full idea of every single one of his films,

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Speaker 4: but what I have seen, I'm like, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 4: sure that one was for me, and that includes Female Trouble,

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Speaker 4: but I'm excited to talk about it. Oh my god,

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Speaker 4: it's a rich text. Yeah, there's lots to discuss.

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Speaker 5: I completely understand that I don't think that it's for everyone,

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Speaker 5: and there's I have known gay people that I do

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Speaker 5: not like John Waters, so it's you don't necessarily have

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Speaker 5: to be gay or straight to enjoy it. It's a type.

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Speaker 5: It's a type that I think by humor and deviancy,

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Speaker 5: and it's it's definitely something that outsiders are attracted to.

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Speaker 5: It's a lot of taking down. Taking down the man

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Speaker 5: vibe can be a thing sometimes.

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Speaker 6: Which a theory I like, yeah, yeah, And it's like

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Speaker 6: at the end of the day, John Waters is he's

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Speaker 6: an edgelrd, Like that's his whole thing, and like, in

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Speaker 6: some ways it ages in this really fascinating way and

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Speaker 6: then another way is maybe not as much, but another

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Speaker 6: thing I appreciate about him, or like just watching him

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Speaker 6: do because he's done, like you're saying, ro he's done

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Speaker 6: like a million Q and as about most of his

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Speaker 6: movies now watch a recent one, and he's also pretty

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Speaker 6: open to being like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish I hadn't.

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Speaker 2: You know, I understand why I was so wanting to

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Speaker 2: engage with the Mansons, but I regret it, you know,

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Speaker 2: like he's not above you know, doubling down on stuff.

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Speaker 4: Reflecting.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, but like when you put it into context,

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Speaker 5: like when you put a movie like Female Trouble, it's

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Speaker 5: a context to think this is nineteen seventy four, Like

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Speaker 5: that is these people were. It's not just like a

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Speaker 5: drag queen, which at the time would have been more

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Speaker 5: female impersonator, more of like a classy thing, I think

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Speaker 5: is more what they were going for a lot of times,

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Speaker 5: at least when it comes to straight audiences seeing these

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Speaker 5: kinds of performers, it would be going to a female

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Speaker 5: impersonator cabaret and the's like, wow, I can't believe that's

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Speaker 5: really a man. But then you have like Divine with

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Speaker 5: prosthetics on her face and injecting liquid eyeliner, Like it

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Speaker 5: is so punk. And by the way, punk rock wasn't

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Speaker 5: really even a term or a subculture the way we

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Speaker 5: know it until later. Yeah, she's Copers after this.

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Speaker 3: And she's got a mohawk in this movie.

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Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, a trailblazer.

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Speaker 5: So to think like where would those where does that

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Speaker 5: come from? And to find a group of people that

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Speaker 5: are on the same page to just make these things,

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Speaker 5: not to make money. They're just like making these things

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Speaker 5: and it's just with their friends. They are all people

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Speaker 5: that knew each other in Baltimore and not it's not

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Speaker 5: brilliant filmmaking per se in a technical sense, but they

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Speaker 5: just wanted to put these together and make people laugh

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Speaker 5: and it's wild. I don't know that they would have

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Speaker 5: ever thought people would be talking about it years and

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Speaker 5: years later.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I also I didn't I didn't do enough research into

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Speaker 2: this side of it, but I thought it was like

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Speaker 2: so sweet and cool that, like it seems like there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of like Baltimore community support from like

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Speaker 2: Normy's where, like he was, they were able to shoot

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Speaker 2: in all these different places. They were able to like

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Speaker 2: shoot in a church, in a jail, and like all

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Speaker 2: of these places that you would expect to maybe not

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Speaker 2: be open to a John Waters movie filming.

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Speaker 4: True, but you know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I was like that.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's so cool that like all especially like

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Speaker 2: all of his early movies are just like full on

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Speaker 2: community projects where you're like, oh yeah, who is this

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Speaker 2: random person and it's like someone's mom or whatever.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean that's where Edith Massey, for example,

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Speaker 5: who's who's in the film as aunt Ida, She was

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Speaker 5: a bartender at a local place that they went to,

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Speaker 5: and he was just like, she's this woman needs to

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Speaker 5: be on films, This woman needs to be in a

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Speaker 5: bird cage yelling and he was not wrong.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll

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Speaker 4: come back for the recap. So I'm gonna place a

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Speaker 4: content warning here at the top for you name it,

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Speaker 4: it happened, assault, rape, incest, child sex abuse, like it.

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Speaker 4: It sort of is all there. But we meet Don

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Speaker 4: Davenport played by Divine when she's a teenager in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 4: She's at school. She's chatting with a couple of her girlfriends,

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Speaker 4: chick Lit and Consetta about shoes that she wants for Christmas,

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Speaker 4: a pair of chaw chaw heels. And I think it's

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Speaker 4: so funny that this is basically the catalyst of the

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Speaker 4: entire rest of the movie. But she wants these chaw

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Speaker 4: chaw heels as a Christmas kids.

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Speaker 2: We never hear from her loving, doting parents again after

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Speaker 2: the chaw chaw heels incident.

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Speaker 4: Well, this sets her on a life of crime.

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Speaker 5: It was a very simple ass She wanted chaw chaw heels,

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Speaker 5: and this is why you get your kids chaw chaw

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Speaker 5: heels if that's what they asked for.

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Speaker 2: That was my favorite letterbox review of this. It was

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Speaker 2: like a haunting reminder that you should always get your

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Speaker 2: daughter chaw chaw heels.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, It's true. So she and her friends they're very

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Speaker 4: disruptive at school. Then it's Christmas morning and she still

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Speaker 4: desperately is hoping for this pair of chaw chaw heels

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Speaker 4: from her parents. But she opens her presence and discovers

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Speaker 4: that she did not get the shoes she wanted. She

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Speaker 4: got a pair of shoes, just not the black chasha

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Speaker 4: heels that she asked for, so she lashes out. She

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Speaker 4: throws her mother around.

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Speaker 2: Her mom not on christmassess.

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Speaker 5: Her mom's like lifeless body under the Christmas tree is

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Speaker 5: something that I think about every day.

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Speaker 4: I feel bad for laughing, but it's a very funny

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Speaker 4: image what you're.

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Speaker 2: Supposed to laugh She she I thought she had killed her,

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Speaker 2: but then it's funny when she's just moaning not on Christmas.

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Speaker 4: So don she attacks her parents and then she runs

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Speaker 4: away from home. She hitches a ride from a man

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Speaker 4: named Earl Peterson, also played by Divine Shocking. They pull

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Speaker 4: over on this side of the road and go into

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Speaker 4: the woods and have sex, during which steals his wallet.

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Speaker 4: This sex scene is wild. First of all, I was like,

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Speaker 4: is this It's hard to tell if it's consensual or not.

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Speaker 4: It right, it's very murky, and then the a d

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Speaker 4: R and the slurping sounds during this I got.

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Speaker 2: The slurping sound reminded me of what you like your

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Speaker 2: noise every time people.

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Speaker 3: You make the scary slurp.

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Speaker 5: But what is so wild is that it's Divine as

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Speaker 5: a male playing the man who is impregnating Divine.

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Speaker 2: It's just like a level of camp here heretofore an unknown.

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Speaker 5: And they're doing it on a just random mattress out

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Speaker 5: in the woods. And you know, because it is like,

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Speaker 5: is this consensual? She said to it.

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Speaker 2: I think I came down on the because I was

402
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Speaker 2: also like unclear on that.

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Speaker 4: Because at one point she's like, yeah, eat me, eat it,

404
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Speaker 4: give it to me and she but I think at

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Speaker 4: first you can't tell because it just randomly starts happening

406
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Speaker 4: to fucking yeah in the woods. Then it becomes clearer

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Speaker 4: that they're both into it.

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Speaker 5: So they're making taffy, yes, which sounds like a term.

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Speaker 5: They're making taffy.

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Speaker 3: It cracked me up, the like I don't know.

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Speaker 2: One of the one of the many great anecdotes on

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Speaker 2: the Divine Wikipedia page is that like later when she

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Speaker 2: was like primarily performing music. There was like an audience

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Speaker 2: member told her to go fuck herself, and.

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Speaker 3: Divine was like, I have. It's in Female Trouble.

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Speaker 5: There's a great documentary about Divine by the documentarian Jeffrey Schwarz.

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Speaker 5: I think it's just called I Am Divine.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 5: It's very well done and it gives you a lot

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Speaker 5: of insight on who Divine was.

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Speaker 4: I need to check that out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's streaming on Roku TV. I just didn't

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Speaker 3: have Oh hell yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think it's not to be too.

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Speaker 4: I was gonna say it's to be.

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Speaker 5: We love a to be is everyone obsessed with to be?

427
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Speaker 5: Because I think to b is like one of the

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Speaker 5: best things that's happening right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think to be genuinely is like preserving movies in

431
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Speaker 2: a way most people, like most places are not preserving.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how they make money, but I hope

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Speaker 2: they stay.

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Speaker 4: I like to be.

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Speaker 5: I know, I'm like, there has to be some kind

436
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 5: of dark thing going on here, but for the time being,

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Speaker 5: I'm enjoying the fact that every time I go to

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Speaker 5: tub I'm like, what the fuck is this? I'm like Anana,

439
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 5: it's free.

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Speaker 2: My my dad was really into uh two B. I

441
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: know I've talked about this on the show before, but

442
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: like I loved visiting home and seeing what my dad's

443
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: recently watched on tub's were, because I was.

444
00:24:58,840 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 3: Like, you're a freak man.

445
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: Where it was like he would watch all these B

446
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: movies from like the sixties and seventies, and I was.

447
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 3: Like, all right, what are you watching?

448
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,479
Speaker 2: And he's like, I saw this movie called Pregnant by

449
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: Mistake and it's from nineteen seventy two and it was terrible.

450
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 4: And I was like, great, I can't.

451
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 2: Only on TWOV, only on TOOV, can you find a

452
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: movie that everyone hated fifty years ago?

453
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: I love it?

454
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 5: That sounds like what I watch. It's very similar.

455
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 4: It's great.

456
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,479
Speaker 2: Or like every famous actor's worst movie is on Twodays.

457
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, oh absolutely.

458
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 4: Okay. So we have the sex scene and then we

459
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 4: cut to several months later, Don is living on her

460
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 4: own and she is gregnant as hell, and she gives

461
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: birth on her couch to a girl who she names Taffy.

462
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: Oh my god, her severing her own chord with her teeth.

463
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 3: It's just it's just disgusting.

464
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, she bites the umbilical cord. I read that that

465
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 4: was I think a condom filled with chopped liver.

466
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: Oh god, I really.

467
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: It reminds me of because Pink Flamingos is the one

468
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: where Divine is the filthiest person on earth and everyone

469
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 2: is like competing to also be the filthiest person on earth,

470
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: and I just love, I just love how gross these

471
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: movies are, Like, people.

472
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 3: Are not making gross.

473
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: It's not actually safe to do what they're doing at

474
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: any point.

475
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: It's awesome.

476
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 4: And Pink Flamingos, Divine eats dog shit. Yes correct, yes, okay,

477
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 4: she do look And it was at that point when

478
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 4: I was watching that movie, I was like, yeah, this,

479
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 4: I'm not sure this is for me.

480
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: I support I think by by comparison, Female Trouble is

481
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: tamer on like the grossometer.

482
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 5: It is, I mean, Pink Flamingos. I love Pink Flamingos.

483
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 5: But there's also like there's a scene with a live

484
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 5: chicken that is hard. Yeah, there's a couple of things

485
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 5: in there that are I mean there's a singing anus,

486
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 5: a person's anus is shown up clothes.

487
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 4: I did not remember that one.

488
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it gets wild.

489
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 4: I guess, well, Okay, well, well, I don't know if

490
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 4: I'll revisit Pink Flaming Goes. Maybe someday, but either way,

491
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,239
Speaker 4: Don is now a single parent to Taffy, and we

492
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 4: see her at a series of jobs. She works at

493
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 4: a diner, she does sex work. She robs men like

494
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 4: she's like mugging them on the street, with the help

495
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 4: of her friends chick Lit and Consetta. Then we flash

496
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 4: forward to nineteen sixty eight. Her daughter, Taffy is eight

497
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 4: years old. I guess, and Don is not a good parent.

498
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 4: She refuses to let Taffy have friends or go to school.

499
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 4: She's very physically abusive.

500
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: She's my favorite line, there is no need to know

501
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: about the president's war numbers or science.

502
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 3: It's just so good there. I also think, and we'll.

503
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: Get her to the This movie's fast and loose approach

504
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 2: to child abuse. But the way that like I don't know,

505
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: like John Waters has seen every movie on the planet,

506
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: it seems like and I was, I think that the

507
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: way the dot that Taffy is dressed is supposed to

508
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: be a reference to The Bad Seed, which is like

509
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: one of my favorite scary movies when I was a kid.

510
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: She's supposed to look like Roda WHOA.

511
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: The big movie reference that I think I picked up

512
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 4: on was Sunset Boulevard. They like, I'm ready for my

513
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: close up?

514
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 5: Oh yeah. At the end of the movie.

515
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: Other than that, I was like, I'm not sure what

516
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 4: if anything is being referenced throughout this movie, but.

517
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: Well, I think probably a lot of what he's referencing

518
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: are like horrible movies that no one wanted to revisit

519
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: to so who knows.

520
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 4: But anyway, Don is again not a good parent. She

521
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 4: shackles Taffy to her bed, et cetera, and then Don

522
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 4: laments to chick Lit and Concetta about how difficult it

523
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 4: is to be a mother, and her friends are like,

524
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 4: don't worry, you'll feel better if you get your hair

525
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 4: done at Lipstick Salon by a man named Gator. We

526
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 4: cut to Gator and his aunt Ida, who we'll talk

527
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: about the weird incestual through line of this movie as well,

528
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 4: but she's acting wildly inappropriate and Gator has to reassure

529
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 4: her that he's straight and he likes women. Then we

530
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 4: cut to Lipstick Salon, which is owned by Donald and

531
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 4: Donna Dasher, So we have Don Davenport, Donald and Donna. Yeah, hilarious.

532
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 4: So Donald and Donna dash sure put their like potential

533
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: customers of their salon through this like interview process because

534
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 4: they only choose like the coolest people to be clients.

535
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: And Don makes it through and chooses Gaytor to be

536
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 4: the stylist that she wants. Then they go out and

537
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 4: a short time later they get married, and at the wedding,

538
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 4: Dawn is wearing an iconic see through wedding dress. But

539
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: married life for them isn't great. They are abusive to

540
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 4: each other. Gaytor cheats on Don with other women, and

541
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: aunt Ida and Don don't get along and they're constantly

542
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 4: taunting each other. We flash forward again to five years,

543
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 4: so it's nineteen seventy four. There's a a Don Gator

544
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 4: sex scene where it appears as though they have a

545
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 4: toolbox kink Yeah yeah.

546
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, Hammer and Meanle knows flyers.

547
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: And they're having sex and then Taffy, who is a

548
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 4: teenager now comes in.

549
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 2: For fourteen you don't look so good? Is such a

550
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: good line.

551
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. There's a lot to unpack in this scene as well,

552
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 4: regarding child abuse, incest ableism.

553
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 5: I don't know that they were thinking about any of that.

554
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 4: Thinking about it, but we on the podcast have to,

555
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 4: so we'll talk about that later. But shortly after this,

556
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: Don and Gaiter get in a huge fight after Gator

557
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 4: shoves a carrot in Don's mouth. Seems to be the

558
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 4: catalyst for their divorce because Don starts divorce proceedings and

559
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: gets him fired from his job at lipstick Salon, which

560
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: forces Gator to leave town, which devastates aunt Ida, and

561
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 4: she's going to retaliate, so we'll put a pin in that.

562
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: But she's just screaming at her house for what is

563
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: an unclear amount of time.

564
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, rolling around on the floor.

565
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: Yes.

566
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, the owners of the salon, Donald and Donna, ask

567
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 4: Don if she will be their model for a photography

568
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 4: project they're working on. The theme for which is crime

569
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 4: and beauty. Basically, they want to photograph Don robbing people

570
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 4: and doing other crime and Don agrees, but before they

571
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 4: can start, aunt Ida comes in and throws acid on

572
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 4: Don's face for like revenge for forcing Gaiter to leave.

573
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 4: So Don is hospitalized. Her friends gather to see the

574
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 4: unveiling of her new face, which has been disfigured from

575
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 4: the acid. But they're like, oh my gosh, you're even

576
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 4: more beautiful than you were before. They put makeup on her.

577
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 4: Donald and Donna still want her to be the model

578
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 4: for their project. This is where they inject liquid eyeliner

579
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 4: in her veins. They give her a makeover a bunch

580
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 4: of other presents, including aunt Ida in a cage. Yeah,

581
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 4: and they're like, here, chop off the hand that threw

582
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 4: acid on you. So Don picks up an axe and

583
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: chops off aunt Ida's hand, and.

584
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 3: It's very convincing. It's really good effect.

585
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

586
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 4: Yeah. Then Taffy comes in to be like, mom, what

587
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 4: the fuck are you doing? Also, why have you never

588
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 4: told me who my real father is? So Don finally

589
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 4: tells Taffy the name and address of her father, and

590
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: Taffy goes to the home of Earl Peterson, who is

591
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 4: drunk and horrible, and he tries to rape Taffy, so

592
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 4: she stabs him with a knife and goes back home. Also,

593
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 4: I will say like, when this movie started, I was like, yeah,

594
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 4: I think I might have an idea of where the

595
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 4: plot might go, And I was so wrong. It's just like,

596
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 4: every five minutes the plot takes a wildly different turn

597
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 4: that you simply cannot see coming.

598
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it becomes a different movie genre

599
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: every like fifteen minutes or so.

600
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, so anyway, Taffy has stabbed her biological father

601
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 4: and she returns home and she's completely distraught, and she's

602
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 4: kind of hanging out with aunt Ida like while she's

603
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 4: still in the cage. But then Don comes in and

604
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 4: she and Taffy are screaming at each other, and Taffy

605
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 4: announces that she's leaving to go live with the Heart

606
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 4: heart Ry Krishna of People, which she does, and this

607
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 4: makes Don furious. So Don kills her own daughter, which

608
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 4: seems to make Don feel absolutely elated and invigorated. And

609
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 4: she goes on stage to perform this show at a nightclub.

610
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 4: She does a trampoline act, she.

611
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 3: Does her own stunts.

612
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, well, we have to.

613
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 5: Keep in mind she has the liquid eyeliner going through

614
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 5: her vedes and this is it's really given her a high.

615
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: Kill your dangerous, it's bad.

616
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 4: So she yeah, she's she's performing in this show. She's

617
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 4: rolling around in dead Fish. The audience is loving it,

618
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 4: and then Don pulls out a gun and starts shooting

619
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 4: into the crowd and several people are killed. So Don

620
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 4: flees into the woods. Wait, there is consent there to well, yes,

621
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: she's like, who wants to be killed? Like, I'll make

622
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 4: you famous?

623
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 5: Somebody does, yes, they does volunteer to take a both.

624
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: They volunteers tribute.

625
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 5: She's not evil, guys. She doesn't just kill people.

626
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 3: She asks for.

627
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: Consent before she murders.

628
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 4: This is true, but it does cause a frenzy, like

629
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 4: you know, people are scared.

630
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 6: Now she does keep shooting after and then she keeps going, yes,

631
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 6: you are right.

632
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: Look but like you were saying the liquid eyelander, I

633
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: just think she's innocent of all charges at the end

634
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 2: of the day.

635
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, well the jury doesn't think so. But anyway, the

636
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: cops catch her and she's tried in court for many crimes,

637
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 4: and several people testify against her, including Ida, who that's

638
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 4: a given. But then her friends or who she thought

639
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 4: were her friends, Donald and Donna Dasher also testify against

640
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 4: Don and so they betray her. Then Don is called

641
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 4: to the stand. She's ranting and raving and saying that

642
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 4: she's famous and she's the most beautiful woman alive.

643
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 5: Look at my legs.

644
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 4: The people who died actually loved being killed by her,

645
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: and the jury's like, I don't get it. So they

646
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 4: find Don guilty and she's sentenced to the death penalty.

647
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 4: She spends some time in prison before being executed, where

648
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: she meets some friends and lovers. Seems like everyone adores her,

649
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 4: and she's excited about being executed. She's treating it like

650
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 4: it's another big show that's giving her fame and notoriety.

651
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 4: And she gives a monologue akin to an awards show

652
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 4: acceptance speech. She's like, I'd like to thank so and so,

653
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 4: and then she's put in the electric chair and killed.

654
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: And that's the end of the movie.

655
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 5: Well, in her line of work, that is the highest honor.

656
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 4: Yes, as a crime and beauty advocate slash perpetrator.

657
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 7: And that's the movie.

658
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 3: We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.

659
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 3: I ros, where would.

660
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 2: You like to start where there's there's no there's no end.

661
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 4: To where we could start here?

662
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I think it's just brilliant. I don't know,

663
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 5: I don't know. Lead me in a direction. What do

664
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 5: you want? Where do you want me to what do

665
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 5: you want me to analyze?

666
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: Well, let's I guess. I mean Don is the obvious place.

667
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: But like, if someone doesn't like this movie because it

668
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: is like upsetting to them in some way. There's like

669
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: truly every single possible content warning like you had to

670
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 2: do at the top of the episode, exists for this movie,

671
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: so you know, there are so many ways in which

672
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 2: it's not going to be for everybody.

673
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 3: But I feel like I like it.

674
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: Even though there's like individual lines or plot lines I

675
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: don't love like. I just feel like Don and Divine

676
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: are so perfect to me because it's just I like

677
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: the kind of character that is, like she's behaving so

678
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 2: absurdly badly that you're like, you know, this is not

679
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: a there's no world where people see this and they're like,

680
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 2: this is my role model, Like you know, it's it's

681
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: it feels like someone acting out in the most horrible

682
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: way possible in a way that is like cathartic, right,

683
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: where like she's just like a walking intrusive thought and

684
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: like every intrusive thought anyone's had in history, Don does

685
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: with like pride and no scruples. And I watched this

686
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: past guest of the show, Matt Bom did a really

687
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: good video about the like John Waters trash trilogy, which

688
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: includes Pink Flamingos and oh my gosh, what is the

689
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: third one, the movie that came.

690
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 5: After this, Multiple Maniacs or Desperate Living. Oh, Desperate Living, Okay, I.

691
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: Guess that that that is the Trash trilogy.

692
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: So this is the second one.

693
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: And he sort of analyzes all of Divine's characters and

694
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: also counters it by being like, there's a lot of ableism,

695
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: Like it's you know, it is not it is not

696
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: a politically correct movie in any way, shape or form.

697
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: But like the core of a Divine character is that

698
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: she like lives for pleasure, is quick to anger, and

699
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: is never dishonest about it, Like.

700
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 3: She always says like yeah I did it and I don't.

701
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 2: Care, And that the villains of these movies tend to

702
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: be people who do horrible things and then lie about it.

703
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: So like that was something that I think really like

704
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 2: pulled the movie into focus in an interesting way that like,

705
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 2: while I have like individual scruples or whatever, you're like, oh, yeah,

706
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: like Donald and Donna, they suck for so many reasons, right,

707
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 2: Like they're like these rich people exploiting others for no reason.

708
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: But like Don is just like in for all she

709
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: can get and is not shy about saying that. But

710
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: Donald and Donna the second, it doesn't become convenient for

711
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 2: them to exploit people anymore. They're the victims and they're

712
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: crying in court and all this shit. Like I don't know,

713
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: I just I really liked looking at it from that,

714
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: Like just Don is like the ultimate in like unapologetic

715
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: and like ways that are really beautiful and ways that

716
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: are quite evil, and I don't know, there's just like

717
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: not a lot like it.

718
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think when you hit play on one of

719
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 5: these movies, you very quickly learn what the rules are

720
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 5: in this universe, or at what right and wrong is

721
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 5: to these people, Like it's it's different than normal everyday life.

722
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 5: And you're also going in with it the understanding Okay,

723
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,959
Speaker 5: that is a man that's playing a teenage girl right now,

724
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 5: Like we know that, and it's it's absurd, it's all absurd.

725
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 5: And then like her twelve year old daughter is really

726
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 5: played by a grown woman, and like we kind of

727
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 5: get that going into it. So I think that's where

728
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 5: they get away with a lot of things that are

729
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 5: not PC because you're kind of like, Okay, these aren't

730
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 5: these characters. Yes, that this was a child, it would

731
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 5: be more realistic and we would look at it in

732
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,959
Speaker 5: a different lens I think is the goal maybe.

733
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 4: Right, because, like I mean, I was kind of coming

734
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 4: into this episode being like, I don't really know how

735
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: to talk about this movie, or probably any early John

736
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 4: Waters movies, at least through the lens of this podcast,

737
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 4: exactly because they're so campy and so intentionally trashy, which

738
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 4: I do think separates separates a movie like this from

739
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 4: other movies that we've covered on the show that have

740
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 4: similar problematic elements of you know, fat phobia and ableism

741
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 4: and playing abuse for a laugh, that kind of thing.

742
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 4: But other movies that do that tend to be more like, well,

743
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 4: this is just a movie that's coming out in the nineties,

744
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 4: and it's a reflection of what society thought was funny

745
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 4: or thought was tolerable or whatever. Versus John Waters. When

746
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: he's doing it, it's almost like he's kind of making

747
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 4: a mockery of those things. I mean, I don't think

748
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 4: a lot of the things in this movie are above criticism,

749
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 4: but his movies are transgressive in a way that sometimes

750
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 4: at least thoughtfully comments on the status quo of you know, heteronormative, patriarchal,

751
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 4: white supremacist society. Although I will say that this movie

752
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 4: is aggressively white, but there's so much being subverted and

753
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: like mocked. Yeah, but also it's including triggering and problematic things,

754
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 4: so it's complicated, right.

755
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 5: I think it's definitely commenting on mainstream society as anything.

756
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 5: Drag typically is where you have to give in mind.

757
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 5: These are all gay men, there's one trans woman, and

758
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 5: cis women that are all a part of this, and

759
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 5: I think that this women queer on the queer spectrum

760
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 5: in some way. But these are not people with children.

761
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 5: These are not people that are participating in mainstream culture

762
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 5: of nineteen seventy three when they were filming it. These

763
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 5: are people that are just like that world is not

764
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 5: something that we are a part of, and so here's

765
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 5: our take on it exactly.

766
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. John Waters is the group of actors he consistently

767
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 4: worked with, the Dreamlanders, right, Yeah, totally. I think it's

768
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 4: best summarized in kind of a monologue that aunt Ida

769
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 4: gives when she's talking to Gator and she wants him

770
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 4: to be queer, and he insists that he's straight and

771
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 4: he's only attracted to women, and aunt Ida is like, ough,

772
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: I worry that you're going to end up working in

773
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 4: an office, and you'll have children, and you'll celebrate wedding anniversaries.

774
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 4: The world of heterosexual is a sick and boring life.

775
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 4: Like it's that's kind of the thesis of John Water's work. Overall,

776
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 4: it just feels like.

777
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 2: Like for the most part and like, again, not completely.

778
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 2: There are a few I think, especially like the ablest jokes.

779
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 5: In this like really just like did not.

780
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really see any excuse for it other

781
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: than like, I mean, like John Waters has admitted like

782
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: kind of just being an edge lord, right, But I

783
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: think more often than not, this movie and like this

784
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: sort of trilogy appears to be like not punching down

785
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: very frequently.

786
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: It's like usually.

787
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 2: Punching up or sometimes across question mark or like poking

788
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: fun at their own community in a way that is

789
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: like I don't know, I think like part of the

790
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: reason that it holds up is because because of that,

791
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: and like that makes the moments where it does feel

792
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 2: like they're punching down to feel not great. But in

793
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: the context of like also I mean not that this

794
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: is an excuse, but like they're so young relatively when

795
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 2: they're making these movies. They're in their like twenties, and

796
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: who among us was not edge lordy in a way

797
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: that they are embarrassed about and regret at different points

798
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: in their twenties.

799
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 3: I certainly was.

800
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are definitely things to talk about, but

801
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: I think like, by and large, especially when it comes

802
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: to the portrayal of fatness and queerness, like it all

803
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: is so tongue in cheek and also like I don't know,

804
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: I feel like you can you can feel that it

805
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: comes from a place of like subversiveness. But also just

806
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 2: like this movie is like stars Divine, who like embodies

807
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: herself in every single frame and every single choice she makes.

808
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 3: Are there fat phobic.

809
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Lines, yes, but like they're delivered from Divine to Divine,

810
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: and it's so funny, like you're that distant.

811
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: It's like that weird sex seed is between Divine and Divine.

812
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 2: The child abuse, while like I understand what that's going

813
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: to be like a stopping point for some viewers, I

814
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: think that like John Water's intentionally casting a visibly twenty

815
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 2: seven year old woman to play a child helps you

816
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 2: create that distance and it feels more like yeah, like

817
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: elevated in Drag World.

818
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, also Divine, on the topic of her size,

819
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 5: she's never not owning it and feeling so proud of

820
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 5: her body. I mean the scene where she's stripping and

821
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 5: she's fully like in a g string and just dancing

822
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 5: around and you can't tell her anything like she is.

823
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 5: She is owning her body size and very proud about it.

824
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 5: And I think I think that's especially at a time

825
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 5: like the seventies where you know, being fat was so bad,

826
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 5: you know, like in in media. She's just like, I

827
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 5: don't give a fuck, like I feel great, And I

828
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 5: love that about Divide totally.

829
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. Also in that scene, the audience that she's dancing

830
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 4: for is loving it. Yeah, they are whooping and cheering,

831
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 4: And it would have been easy to well because you

832
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 4: do see in the scenes where she's in high school,

833
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 4: like at the beginning of the movie, her classmates are

834
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 4: bullying her for being fat, and teacher and.

835
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: Teach, but it's like that everyone who bully is divine

836
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 2: for being fat. Are characters that we're supposed to hate

837
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: for sure, So I'm kind of I mean, I don't know,

838
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 2: that's my perspective on it anyways, is like, you know,

839
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: and especially when it's fat phobic bullying from the other

840
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: divine character earl to down. You're just like, yeah, we

841
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 2: hate this guy. We hate this guy so much, and

842
00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 2: even though Dawn is despicable, we don't hate Well, I

843
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know how we're supposed to feel

844
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: about Don, but like she's iconic, Yeah, no doubt about it.

845
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 5: She's an anti hero.

846
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 2: She's a Don Draper type, a despicable me if you will, she's.

847
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 3: A little despicable me.

848
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: She's opinion.

849
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think the one thing that there's really

850
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 4: no excuse for, and we already touched on this, but

851
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 4: is the ableism a child Because for listeners who aren't

852
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 4: familiar with this movie, Don keeps talking to her daughter

853
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 4: Taffy in a very ablest disparaging way, calling her the

854
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 4: R word, saying that she was diagnosed by mental like

855
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 4: medical professionals, as you know, having some sort of intellectual disability.

856
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: And it's clear that she has never brought this.

857
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 4: She's this girl has like never been to the doctor.

858
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 2: She's never been to a doctor and has been abused

859
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 2: her whole life, which is like the movie does not

860
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: shy away from, you know, it's obvious that that's the case.

861
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 2: Even in context, that just felt more like edgy for

862
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,399
Speaker 2: the sake of being edgy versus like other choices that

863
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: the script makes that have like a point of view

864
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 2: or like.

865
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 3: A tongue in cheek that just didn't feel as much.

866
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 2: I think that again, the portrayal of like child abuse.

867
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: It's the movie isn't portraying it as like right or

868
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: anything like that or justified. But I feel and guessing

869
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: and like, let me know what you both think that,

870
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 2: like that was sort of an attempt on the on

871
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 2: the movie's part to you know, like one of the

872
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: very you know, stereotypical parts of like hetero society at

873
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: this time and still is like raising children and raising

874
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: them right and blah blah blah. And like the whole

875
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: point of Dawn is she does everything contrary to what

876
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 2: typical society does and so she is a terrible, neglectful parent.

877
00:51:58,719 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 3: What are we supposed to make of that?

878
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 2: I don't really know, but like I'm guessing that was

879
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: sort of the energy behind it. It's like she is

880
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 2: the anti you know, missus Claver or whatever.

881
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 5: Hmm, Yeah, I think so. I think it would be

882
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 5: shocking if she was this amazing mother, But it's still

883
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 5: robbing men.

884
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 2: Kind of funny because like, there are various I guess

885
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 2: representations of incest or suggested incest also that I didn't

886
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 2: know quite what to make of, because part of.

887
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 4: It is sort of like there's a scene I don't

888
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 4: even want to describe it, really, but there's a scene

889
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 4: where Don suggests that her daughter commit an active incest

890
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 4: with Gaitor. And even though Taffy and Gaiter aren't biologically related,

891
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 4: like Gaitor is in Taffy's life theoretically as a stepfather,

892
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 4: we don't really see any.

893
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 3: We it's safe to assume he doesn't.

894
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 5: He's not good at it.

895
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 4: He's not really doing much right.

896
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 2: It's a bad vibe that gives I think, a very

897
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 2: funny line if you're not thinking about it in the

898
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: context of the scene, which is I wouldn't suck your

899
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: lousy dick if I was suffocating and there was oxygen

900
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: in your balls. That is that's a good line, a

901
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: good line.

902
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 5: And I mean, does it help the case at all

903
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 5: that the little girl says things like that and is like,

904
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 5: fuck you, you're not doing it, you know, I think

905
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 5: that maybe I.

906
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 4: Think it does help.

907
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 5: I think I help Yeah, yeah, yeah.

908
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 2: It's like she's saying stuff that like probably for I

909
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 2: don't know. I wish I could strig a sentence like

910
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 2: that together when I was fourteen.

911
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 5: But yeah, and then when her father tries it, she

912
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 5: kills them. I mean, yeah, there's something there, right, that's something.

913
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 4: There's something. Yeah, she stabs him with a knife covered

914
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 4: in mannise. Question mark.

915
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 2: We don't think about it too hard, uh, Taffy, You know,

916
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 2: I think maybe the tragic because Don is not a

917
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: tragic hero.

918
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 3: She goes out on top according.

919
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: To her, so she's not she's not heroic, and she

920
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 2: doesn't find her death tragic, so I guess she's doing

921
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: something else. I feel like Taffy is kind of the

922
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: tragic hero of the movie because she does her damnedest

923
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 2: to get out of that situation. She finds Inner Piece

924
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: and then dies immediately rip right.

925
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, She joins the Hari Krishnas and is murdered by

926
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 4: her own mother about it.

927
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: She's tried to like kill and punish her oppressive upbringing,

928
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: and eventually, you know, unfortunately you can't get one over

929
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: on Don Davenport.

930
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 3: That's just kind of the.

931
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 2: Rules of this world.

932
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:50,959
Speaker 3: So she was always doomed.

933
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 4: Certainly, not when she's high on liquid I eyeliner.

934
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like what we're saying since is like this,

935
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 2: it is very it's very hard to I don't know,

936
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 2: this is a movie designed to break our show, but.

937
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 3: I'm gonna keep trying. Yeah, I agree that.

938
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 8: Like I think for me, it was like primarily the

939
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 8: ablest stuff that it just felt like it was doing

940
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 8: something to just because you're not supposed to say this,

941
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 8: and not because the movie really has any sort of

942
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 8: perspective or like alternate representation.

943
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: To it, So it's like it's not really saying very much.

944
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I definitely think that there was a shock element

945
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,720
Speaker 5: that they were going for. I mean, this is after

946
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 5: Pink Flamingos, right, yeah, two years after and that was

947
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 5: such a huge smash hit in the midnight movie Underground

948
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 5: and became something that everyone talked about. So this is

949
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 5: following that and that movie of course, like the thing

950
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 5: that everyone really took away from that was she ate

951
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,959
Speaker 5: poop that came out of a dot, but we see

952
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 5: it on camera come out of the butt into her

953
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 5: mouth and it's like, how.

954
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 4: How do you heighten from there?

955
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and people are coming expecting shock and this movie

956
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 5: doesn't really have a lot of those moments that are

957
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 5: like that in teds with there's not a singing anus,

958
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 5: there's not you know, there's not any of that stuff.

959
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 5: But then you know, knowing your audience of people that

960
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,720
Speaker 5: are coming to see your follow up movie, there's gonna

961
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 5: be some moments that are just for the sake of

962
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 5: taking it, taking it someplace.

963
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 7: One of the things I liked about this movie is

964
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 7: it's I do think it's like saying some like fun

965
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 7: interesting stuff about class, because.

966
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 2: There is a read of it where it's like these

967
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 2: characters are with the exception.

968
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 3: Of the what are their names, the rich.

969
00:56:55,880 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 2: Couple, Don and Donald and Donna, the Dashers, most everyone

970
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 2: in this movie is like working class or poor, and

971
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 2: you know, like there's a read of it where you're like, okay,

972
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 2: leaning hard into stereotypes around poor people that we were

973
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: talking about in recent what was the episode recently we

974
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: were talking about sort of like just stereotypes around ale

975
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: that are just sort of presented of whatever, that they're

976
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: bad parents, that they're criminals.

977
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.

978
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,959
Speaker 4: Oh overboard, overboard. Yeah.

979
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 2: A movie that genuinely sucks, which I don't think this

980
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: movie does even remotely. This movie rocks uh So, I

981
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 2: like the inclusion of the Dashers because you see that

982
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: these like these rich characters are also completely depraved in

983
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: a way that is different, where like there's this like

984
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: it's not harped upon, because nothing is really harped upon

985
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: in this movie, but like that these rich characters are

986
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: sort of out to like exploit, exploit the poor people

987
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: who come to their business and present them as art,

988
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 2: and like that that is something that still happens and

989
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: certainly happened then, and you know, there is an element

990
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: to like they're encouraging Dawn to do all this horrible

991
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: stuff or just encouraging, you know, bad behavior. They're witnessing

992
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: child abuse and taking pictures of it and being like

993
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: you're a diva, You're incredible, Like it's so over the top,

994
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: and they're encouraging it almost as like a social experiment,

995
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: like they're they're detached from it. They're like, this is

996
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: my little art project, when it's like other people's lives.

997
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: And and that is like thought, I thought, like a

998
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 2: really cool way of framing how a lot of like

999
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: wealthy benefactors view art and view outsider art. And I'm

1000
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 2: like wondering if John Waters had experiences like that, we're

1001
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 2: like rich weirdos are like, hey, John, we really like

1002
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 2: what you're doing. Keep doing all that gross shit. I

1003
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 2: totally get it, like that.

1004
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 3: Kind of vibe.

1005
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 2: And then at the end that the Dashers, I know

1006
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: we talked about it earlier, but that like the Dashers

1007
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: turn on Don once they're like, oh no, we're going

1008
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: to get in trouble for this. Actually we're the victims

1009
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: of this thing that we funded and encouraged one thousand percent.

1010
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 3: Like I just I liked that.

1011
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,919
Speaker 2: Element of the movie that was really good.

1012
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I feel like you come away going, oh yeah,

1013
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 5: they're they're the slimy ones, like they're the whole time.

1014
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 5: It's like Dog's doing horrible shit. But you know, ain't

1015
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 5: her defense. She didn't start out poor. I think that

1016
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 5: she is. She is not a criminal because she's poor.

1017
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 5: I think she's poor because she's a criminal. And she's

1018
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 5: a criminal.

1019
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 2: It's a criminal because she didn't get those chachachacha exactly.

1020
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 3: That's true. That's true. They do go.

1021
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 2: She is like a firmly middle class girl who chooses

1022
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: a life of crime, and in a way that is

1023
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 2: on her parents.

1024
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 3: I blame the parents.

1025
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 4: Ultimately must she was she was a teenager, she was

1026
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 4: a she needed guidance.

1027
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,959
Speaker 2: It was a child. Yeah.

1028
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 4: I also think it's really funny that the Dashers put

1029
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 4: their potential clients through an audition process, and a group

1030
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 4: of women like waiting for their audition, and one of

1031
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 4: them is dismissed, I think, based on her appearance alone.

1032
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 4: And then another one is like, I'm a stripper and

1033
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 4: this is I heard, this is where all the strippers go.

1034
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 4: And they're like, yeah, that's fine, you're in. And then

1035
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 4: another woman is like, I work at the post office,

1036
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 4: getting the fuck out and get the fuck out of here. Hilarious.

1037
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 4: And then Dawn, who I think is the only one

1038
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 4: who ends up making it through, She's like, I'm a

1039
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 4: thief and a shit kicker, and they're like, that's exactly

1040
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 4: what we're looking for.

1041
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 5: Uh huh, she's great.

1042
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 4: Hilarious.

1043
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: I let My other favorite thing that happens at the

1044
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 2: hair salon is when one of the women thinks her

1045
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 2: haircuts too extensive and they take the hairdew back.

1046
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 3: They just threw it everything they just did. It's so funny.

1047
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm like I'm trying.

1048
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 3: I surely I have more to say about us.

1049
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,880
Speaker 4: Well, I mean to your original point, Jamie again, John

1050
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 4: Waters set out to make the trashiest movies that have

1051
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 4: ever existed. He wanted to make these very subversive, transgressive,

1052
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 4: campy trash films. And when you're doing that in the

1053
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 4: nineteen seventies, you're bound to, you know, make some mistakes.

1054
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 4: Things that seem subversive at the time are actually just

1055
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 4: like punching down or being edged lordie or stuff that

1056
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 4: we can very easily look at in twenty twenty five

1057
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 4: and be like, yeah, shouldn't have done that. Yeah, but

1058
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 4: it's fifty years ago, Like it's right, and even us like,

1059
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 4: as you said, like, there are jokes that I used

1060
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 4: to tell as a comic in my twenties where I

1061
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 4: was like, I I should have never said that, And

1062
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 4: it's because at the time I was like, oh, oh,

1063
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 4: this is subversive, this is fun, you know, I'm being edgy,

1064
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 4: And that's not what that was. That was just whatever

1065
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 4: shitty joke I was making. But yeah, so there's there's

1066
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 4: an element of leeway that we can extend to people. Obviously,

1067
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 4: context is important and the severity of what they do

1068
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 4: is important to consider, but so much of you know

1069
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 4: John waters work again when he is commenting on the

1070
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 4: status quo and making fun of it and being like,

1071
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 4: straight people are so fucking boring. The line where on

1072
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 4: Ida This happens a little bit later in the movie,

1073
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 4: where she's now trying to set Gator up with a

1074
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 4: man because she's so hell bent on Gator being gay,

1075
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 4: and this random man is like, well, well, how do

1076
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 4: you know that Gator likes men? And Ida says, I

1077
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 4: just use common sense. If they're smart, they're queer. If

1078
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 4: they're stupid, they're right. I'm laughing.

1079
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: Or she's like, if you ever decide to like leave

1080
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 2: the Hari Krishna and come be a lesbian, you can

1081
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: live with me. She is a one issue voter, Ida,

1082
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: and everyone needs to be gay.

1083
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 5: And I don't even know. I mean, is aunt Eida?

1084
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 5: Do we know her sexuality or she just really just

1085
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 5: wants to be around gay unclear?

1086
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: She really seems like she her Yeah, her sexuality is

1087
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 2: being around gay people.

1088
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 3: We actually don't know.

1089
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 2: She could be a self hating straight We don't.

1090
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 4: Know which relatable for me. But yeah. The point is

1091
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 4: like this movie and other of John Waters' works are

1092
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 4: doing a lot. As we've talked about to examine the boring,

1093
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 4: the ridiculous, the very rigid gender roles and heteronormativity of

1094
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 4: mainstream America in society, and he's just like, ooh, let

1095
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 4: me do the exact opposite of that. And sometimes it

1096
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 4: ends up being this hilarious, subversive, awesome thing. Sometimes it

1097
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 4: is punching down, but overall it's why we're able to

1098
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 4: like still love John Waters and his body of work

1099
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 4: despite some of the stuff that doesn't age very well. Yeah,

1100
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 4: but yeah, I don't think I have much else to say.

1101
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 3: Which feels wild.

1102
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, like this movie, it's like you like it

1103
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 2: or you don't. I will be returning to this movie.

1104
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is the kind of movie I've like.

1105
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 2: I don't know why. Then like I can't wait to

1106
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 2: be sick and watch this movie and eat soup.

1107
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 4: Well, you need to eat spaghetti and then throw it

1108
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 4: at the wall.

1109
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're Taffy, I'll have two chicken breasths.

1110
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 4: Well we're not having chicken breast, we're having spaghetti.

1111
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 2: And then I'll have a small portion to be polite.

1112
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 4: And then Don is like, Taffy, there's not enough for you.

1113
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 4: I didn't make enough for you. I Meanwhile, she brings

1114
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 4: out this huge bowl of so much spaghetti that could

1115
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 4: have easily fed like eight people.

1116
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very curious what our listeners think of this movie.

1117
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 3: I really like it.

1118
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 2: There are elements of it that don't age well, but

1119
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 2: I feel like it's heart is so like it's just

1120
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,919
Speaker 2: like you can tell where this movie is coming from.

1121
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 3: It's fifty years old, so there are issues with it.

1122
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 2: And also just like the divine Divine's performance in this

1123
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 2: movie is like wild. It is just like how much

1124
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 2: we were saying this at the beginning, but like every

1125
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 2: line in this movie is screamed.

1126
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 3: Like it's just it's awesome.

1127
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 4: It's a lat Also, there aren't a lot of cuts,

1128
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 4: so there'll be like a pretty wide shot that'll last

1129
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 4: for a few minutes, and the actors are just exchanging

1130
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 4: dialogue back and forth for minutes at a time, So

1131
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 4: the memorization you have to do, yeah, when you're shooting

1132
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 4: like that is no And they're just like, I don't

1133
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 4: know how much improv or if any was involved on

1134
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 4: any of these sets, but if it is all like

1135
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 4: very meticulously written and then performed as written, it is

1136
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,240
Speaker 4: then like those exchanges of dialogue and monologues that had

1137
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 4: to be memorized and without like cutaways. Yeah, very impressive.

1138
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 2: No, he I in the Q and A I watched,

1139
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 2: he said it was all like he is like I

1140
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 2: am anti improv, which I saw it bright.

1141
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 3: I love that for him.

1142
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 2: He was like, I'm anti improv and so like people

1143
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 2: have like criticized the skill level of actors I've worked

1144
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 2: with over the years, but like they're memorizing twenty pages

1145
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 2: of dialogue, so your move. Yeah, So it's great these

1146
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 2: like I love characters that are like I live for

1147
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:55,080
Speaker 2: pleasure and anything that is not pleasure I reject and

1148
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 2: will react with violence. It's cathartic. It makes me want

1149
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: to like stomp around.

1150
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 4: Totally like it. There's something very refreshing about seeing a

1151
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 4: female character do whatever the fuck she wants. Yeah, and

1152
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 4: you know it's not awesome when that includes child abuse

1153
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 4: and chaining your daughter to a bed and.

1154
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 2: No, but it's like this movie isn't pro child abuse.

1155
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 3: You know, it's just a keeps place.

1156
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 2: On a different planet as far as I can say, right, yeah,

1157
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 2: this is a movie where if your parents don't get you,

1158
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 2: chatcha he'll the floodgates are open.

1159
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 5: And now you're allowed to just kill people.

1160
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 2: You're allogic, generate, generational trauma, a perceived slight.

1161
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I love to see women behaving badly in movies,

1162
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 4: so it's great.

1163
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 5: And honestly, like for me when I watch Divine, like

1164
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 5: I kind of do forget that that is a male

1165
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 5: drag queen character, Like I'm kind of just like this

1166
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 5: is just she's a shit kicker lady, Like she's a

1167
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 5: bad girl.

1168
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Divine is just like it's so good that I

1169
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 2: because I also I had to like refresh myself on

1170
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 2: like Divine as a drag performer and like I really

1171
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 2: want to watch that documentary.

1172
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 5: And the most unlikely movie star of yeah, that time,

1173
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 5: Like let's think about it. Ever, if you think about

1174
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 5: like just the seventies again, her size, the fact that

1175
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 5: she's this feminine man that dresses in drag, like that's

1176
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 5: not someone that was leading movies in certain that time.

1177
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 5: So it's this whole universe that they created for themselves

1178
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 5: where they're already going into this breaking all the rules.

1179
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 4: Right, and it's a universe where every time Down says

1180
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 4: I'm the most beautiful woman in the world, everyone around

1181
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 4: her agrees. Yeah, and that's just the reality of the

1182
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 4: society that it rocks of this alternate Baltimore.

1183
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 2: And this is we've like this is like maybe the

1184
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: most boring thing to point out, and everybody knows it.

1185
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 2: But for what it's worth, fifteen years after this movie,

1186
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 2: a Disney like an iconic Disney villain is like she

1187
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,879
Speaker 2: becomes such a cultural touchstone and it's such a cultural

1188
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 2: force that she's like cartoon.

1189
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 3: Character by the late eighties.

1190
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 2: It's like it's incredible, like the amount that I don't know,

1191
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 2: like I love I love when a group of friends

1192
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 2: makes it, Like they made a group of friends from

1193
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 2: Baltimore made a movie and guess.

1194
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 3: What it changed the world. So think about that.

1195
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 5: It's cool.

1196
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this movie has its issues, but I feel

1197
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,719
Speaker 2: like it's just so there's nothing really like it totally,

1198
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 2: and it's kind of incredible that it's remotely good, Like

1199
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:52,839
Speaker 2: given the resources and like how they had to make these.

1200
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 4: Movies a budget of twenty five thousand dollars, yeah, which

1201
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 4: I did.

1202
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 2: I put into a little thing, so that would be

1203
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 2: about one hundred fifty thousand.

1204
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 4: Dollars today, still super low budget.

1205
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 2: Still very very low. Yeah, and that yeah, it's like

1206
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 2: through the goodwill of their own community, were they able

1207
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:09,719
Speaker 2: to like pull.

1208
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 3: This off time and time again. It's just it's awesome.

1209
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. Ross. Do you have anything else? Do you

1210
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 4: want to talk about?

1211
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 2: No?

1212
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 5: I love it.

1213
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:20,800
Speaker 4: It's great.

1214
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 8: Uh.

1215
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 2: It passes the Bachfel test a whole lot, usually about

1216
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 2: something horrible, but like, that's fine.

1217
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 3: That it counts.

1218
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 4: Women are talking about crime, money, fame, beauty, liquid, eyeliner,

1219
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 4: jump ropes, spaghetti, chicken, breasts, all manner of things.

1220
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 3: The list goes on. Yeah, so that no issues there?

1221
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:47,680
Speaker 3: And then what about the the ultimate metric, the Bechdel.

1222
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 2: Cast nipples scale.

1223
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the scale where we rate the movie from

1224
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 4: zero two five nipples based on examining it through an

1225
01:10:55,520 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 4: intersectional feminist lens. I might defer rating on this episode.

1226
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 4: I feel like this, Yeah, I feel like the nipple

1227
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 4: scale doesn't apply to a movie like Female Trouble, So

1228
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:12,200
Speaker 4: I kind of don't even want to rate it.

1229
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 2: I give it five mmmm five plates of spaghetti for me.

1230
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 4: Yes, I'll give it five human sized cages.

1231
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 3: Incredible. Where the hell did they get that so good?

1232
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:31,480
Speaker 2: That would be a great Halloween cost Him? Very cumbersome,

1233
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: but really good.

1234
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, Ross, what do you think.

1235
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd give it five trampoline.

1236
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 2: I love the anecdote that like John Waters and Divine

1237
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 2: went to the YMCA together for her to train.

1238
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: I'm just like, it's so good. It's so good because.

1239
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 4: She had to do all those flips with her wig,

1240
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 4: like staying on true and that's no easy task.

1241
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 2: True show girl. All right, Well that is our female trouble.

1242
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 2: So to thank you to everyone who's been requesting this

1243
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:03,520
Speaker 2: movie for nine years.

1244
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 5: We did it. We did it.

1245
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 2: It is and thank you so much, Raz for coming

1246
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 2: on the show.

1247
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 3: This was so fun.

1248
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm so happy that you invited me,

1249
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 5: and I'm I'm happy to talk about John Waters. I

1250
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 5: think it's I think again, it's like not certainly not

1251
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 5: what they were planning up when they were doing this stuff,

1252
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 5: but at this point it's like it serves as a

1253
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:38,720
Speaker 5: historical record I think of queer culture, and not even

1254
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 5: just queer culture, like very subversive, transgressive, very a different,

1255
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 5: a world of outsiders and showing what a world of

1256
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:56,120
Speaker 5: outsiders was like and what they were doing at that time.

1257
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,880
Speaker 5: And this is only a few years after Stonewall, which

1258
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 5: was also those were outsider queer people. Those were gender

1259
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 5: non conforming trans people, and they were angry and fighting back,

1260
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 5: and I think that in a sense, that's where the

1261
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:23,759
Speaker 5: culture was at. This is very early gay rights movement,

1262
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:28,160
Speaker 5: and it's fun to see them letting their hair down

1263
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 5: and making each other laugh. And I think everyone should

1264
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 5: check it out totally.

1265
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 2: It's on the internet archive for free. If you haven't

1266
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 2: watched it already, can It's very easy to access.

1267
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:47,560
Speaker 4: Indeed, thank you again for joining us for this discussion

1268
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 4: and tell us roz where people can follow you online,

1269
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 4: check out your work, listen to your podcasts, etc. Plug away.

1270
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:02,559
Speaker 5: Thank you well. Roshrdad does on Instagrams where you can

1271
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,280
Speaker 5: find everything. I'm so excited about this new podcast that

1272
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:11,839
Speaker 5: I'm doing, which is a horror movie trivia game show

1273
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 5: type thing. It's fun. It is a podcast, but it's

1274
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 5: a game show, so we're I'm the host of it,

1275
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 5: and it's produced by Paramounts and it's all about horror

1276
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 5: movies and I really hope that you can listen to

1277
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 5: it and not necessarily be a horror movie fan. I

1278
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 5: think that we make it still fun and funny because

1279
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 5: there's all different kinds of improvised challenges that we put

1280
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 5: our guests through and it's just a good time. So

1281
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 5: that's called Tickled to Death. Go listen to that. And

1282
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 5: then Ghosted my podcast where I talk to people about

1283
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:57,600
Speaker 5: their experiences with ghosts and aliens and bigfoots and psychics

1284
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 5: and stuff. That's my other podcast. And I have a

1285
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 5: YouTube channel where I go ghost hunting with guys I

1286
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:10,839
Speaker 5: meet on Grinder and we go ghost hunting in haunted

1287
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:11,719
Speaker 5: hotel rooms.

1288
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's awesome.

1289
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 5: And it's comedic and it's fabulous.

1290
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 4: I love it.

1291
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 5: Rosser Dad is the Haunts. It's all that's called hell.

1292
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for training us.

1293
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:26,799
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm so excited for the new podcast.

1294
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 3: Congratulations.

1295
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 5: Thank you of course.

1296
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,879
Speaker 2: And you can find us in all the regular places

1297
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 2: we're on the Instagram. You can join our Patreon aka Matreon,

1298
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 2: where every month for five dollars a month you get

1299
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:43,559
Speaker 2: two bonus episodes and access to our back catalog of

1300
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 2: over one hundred episodes. I think almost two hundred at

1301
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 2: this point. So get on there, get into it, and

1302
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:52,679
Speaker 2: we will see you next week.

1303
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 4: Yes, thank bye.

1304
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and

1305
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 2: produced by me, Jamie Loftus and.

1306
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 4: Me Caitlyn Durrante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie

1307
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 4: Lichtermann and edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?

1308
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 4: That's Me and our logo and merch and all of

1309
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 4: our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever

1310
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 4: heard of her? Oh My God?

1311
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 2: And our theme song, by the way, was composed by

1312
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 2: Mike Kaplan.

1313
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 4: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.

1314
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 2: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only

1315
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 2: Aristotle Ascevedo.

1316
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 4: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash

1317
01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 4: Spectel Cast