1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Hey, how is it that a seal keeps balls on 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: their nose? Now, no, no, I have something serious. 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: If I have to grocer in the house and I've 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: got to paint the door. 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: So you're painting the door to your house? 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, paints the door red. It's gonna be very nice. 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: But you know what a red door symbolizes, right, noge 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: is a bordello. You're kidding, right, That's how sailors would know. 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: They would have them down by the view pole and 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: they would be able to know where they could kidding 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: me right, make whoopee for for money? Who's that neighbor? 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: Could you ask them about the red door? 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 3: Zach? 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: I need this. 15 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: Today's episode ilise. So now what happens? Ara's gonna call 17 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: We'll see, Oh boy, get ready. For a while back, 18 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: my producers and I decided to try a phone in episode. 19 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Larry King, Rush Limbaugh and other Goldstein esque personalities had 20 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: found success with them. So why, I wondered from the 21 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: depths of my ignorance, couldn't die and so full of 22 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: hubris and hope, we open the phone lines and invite 23 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: the whole world to call in with a small moment 24 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: from their past, something to revisit and resolve, all during 25 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: the course of a five minute phone call. This is 26 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: why I got into this business, the you know, the 27 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: feeling of live radio. As I'm to learn the thing 28 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: about a phone in show is that you need people 29 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: to phone in and nobody. 30 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 4: Is cause everyone's day. 31 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimblet Media 32 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: has forgotten to pay its telephone bill. 33 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 4: Again, Oh, here we go, ready, we're answering. 34 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: All right, Hello, this is Jonathan speaking. 35 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: Hi Jonathan, how's it going. 36 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: It's going okay? 37 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 4: Is this uh? 38 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: What's your name? 39 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: Elie? This is You're very surprised I got through. This 40 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: is so exciting. 41 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: I guess you really lucked out. Is a longtime listener, 42 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: first time caller from Washington, d C. And as it 43 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: turns out, her call proves not only the first of 44 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: the day, but also the last. And this is not 45 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because 46 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm completely drawn in by the story. At least tells 47 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: me about herself and her dad. What's his name, Billy? Billy? 48 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess I basically I am a strange 49 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: from my father. 50 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: When Aalise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent, 51 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: the one who always had hours to play with her, 52 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: the guy who, in spite of being something of a 53 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even 54 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement, Billy 55 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: and Elise were really close, which is why not having 56 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: any relationship now hurts the way it does. 57 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: She was my dad, like already of a family vacation 58 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: was like show up in a country with no plan 59 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: and like rent a car and just like drive around 60 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: and it was amazing. Like that's what That's what life 61 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: with dad was like. It was like every day it 62 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: was an Indvanshire. 63 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: Even the way Billy met Alisa's mom was like something 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,239 Speaker 1: out of a movie, the first act of a film noir. 65 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a tourist 66 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: visa when he got into a terrible car accident, and 67 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: the physical therapist assigned to him was Elisa's mom. Billy 68 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: was still in a wheelchair when he talked her into 69 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date. 70 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: Pretty soon after they got married and had Alise. Billy 71 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his 72 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman. 73 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: I have a lot of things in my upbringing in 74 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: life with him to be very grateful for. In addition 75 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: to all the craziness in. 76 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: Reference to her dad brings up craziness a lot, like 77 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening a 78 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: business in her name, or the crazy time he drove 79 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: home a brand new car only to have cops come 80 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: looking for it with their guns drawn, or the crazy 81 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: way he destroyed his twenty four year marriage with a 82 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed on 83 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: the family, only to spend the holiday with another woman. 84 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: And for all of these things, no matter how jarring 85 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: or painful, Elise's found it in herself to forgive her father. 86 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: But there's one thing she hasn't been able to forgive. 87 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: About five years ago, he moved out of the country 88 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: without telling. 89 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: Us us is Elise and her mom. Elisa's parents had 90 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: been married her whole life, but had recently separated around 91 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: the time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of 92 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: her dad is watching him wave from the crowd as 93 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: she crossed the stage at our college graduation. Days later, 94 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: he disappeared, and disappeared as the word for it. Elise 95 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: says that when she went over to his house she 96 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: found food rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture 97 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: still there. For a week, Alise had no idea what 98 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: had happened to her father, and then she received an email. 99 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: It simply said he'd be gone for a little while 100 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: and that email was the best way to stay in touch. 101 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: There was no further explanation. The next time she heard 102 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: from him was on her birthday six months later, a 103 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern 104 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: for the last five years. 105 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: On holidays and my birthday and stuff like that. His 106 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: emails are very short, like three sentences or less, sort 107 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: of happy whatever holiday it is. I hope you're well, 108 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: love Dad. 109 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: At first, Alise tried responding. She'd express some of her 110 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more substantial dialogue, 111 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: but Billy would refuse to engage. So after an email 112 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: pressing her father for answers, a few months would pass 113 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: with no response, and then an email would land in 114 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: Alisa's inbox, wishing her a happy whatever holiday it is, 115 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: and hoping she's well. Love Dad, as though nothing was 116 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually, 117 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: Alie stopped responding to his emails entirely. 118 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't 119 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: know if it's phone number. Like the only connection I 120 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: have to him is a concast email address. 121 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: Do you do you know where he's living. 122 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: He's in the Philippines, and that's all I know. My 123 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: mom has a pinpointed like a region. But like there 124 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: was ever, Like he never told me where he was 125 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: going or why he never he never explained why he left. 126 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure, 127 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: an emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why 128 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: and what happened, because in the five years since she 129 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: last saw him, a lot has happened. 130 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: He started a new family. He also has like a 131 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: wife and a kid. Uh huh. And then he actually 132 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,239 Speaker 2: named his new daughter my name Elise. 133 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I. 134 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 2: Just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement, 135 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 2: Like I moved to a country and like made a 136 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: new youth. 137 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first 138 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: result that comes up is new Elise and the page 139 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: Billy made for her, which means old Elise is forced 140 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter 141 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: from his new family, who also just so happens to have. 142 00:08:48,640 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: Her name, Like, he just wants me to like love 143 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: him and be happy with him again. But the elephant 144 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere for 145 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: half a decade and we've never discussed it. 146 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: At least feels like she and Billy are living in 147 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: two different realities. She in the one where her father 148 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: abandoned her, and he in the one where he did 149 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's 150 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: seen and felt to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward? 151 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: Are you wanting to have a relationship with him? 152 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: Pardon me? Is because he's also he's like diabetic, and 153 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 2: like he's just kind of old and sick and might 154 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: die and I might never know. He's sixty five and 155 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 2: possibly working a very physically taxing job. He was working 156 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: on container ships when we first moved over, And I've 157 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: been passively choosing the root of not having a relationship, 158 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 2: but the fear and the guilt gets worse with time. 159 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: What would pursuing a relationship look like? 160 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: That's what I'm That's what I'm trying to figure out. 161 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I mean, he's my dad and he's 162 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: I feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me, 163 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 2: and I just don't know how to work past it. 164 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: I know I can sometimes come across as something of 165 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in 166 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes 167 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: even days, of careful consideration. But then, I've never hosted 168 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: a call in show before, and so adrenalized by the 169 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch 170 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in, would 171 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: you want me to call him up? And I say this, 172 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: by the way, like with the idea that it's could 173 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: be a terrible, terrible idea, I'm not championing this idea. 174 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: This could be a stupid idea. 175 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: It's better than any of the ideas that I've had 176 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: for the past five years. So yeah, I think I 177 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: think it would be helpful. 178 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: My idea is to serve as Elise's emotional advanced scout, 179 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: to call up her dad and see if he might 180 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: be ready, and after all this time, to talk to 181 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: Elise and offer some answers. Given what Elise has told 182 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: me about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that. 183 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything. 184 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: Good luck for the rest of your calls. 185 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: No one's going to call anyway. 186 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 5: So no, this. 187 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: Was a good call in show. And so it comes 188 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: to pass that I email Billy. As I await his response, 189 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: I imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like 190 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: a student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong 191 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me 192 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her 193 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: mom are the real villains. After a week and a half, 194 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: I finally hear back from Billy, and his actual response 195 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's 196 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains 197 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: it's the rainy season in the Philippines and it's been 198 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: messing with his internet. But he says he really wants 199 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: to talk to me, to be honest with you, He writes, 200 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: you are the only hope I have of communicating with Elise. Hello, 201 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: oh hi, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. 202 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 5: Hey Jonathan. It's a terrible evening here again thunder and lightning, 203 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 5: as I told you season. But anyway, so Elise contacted you. 204 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: Although Elisa's last memory of her dad was at her 205 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory, and as 206 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: he describes it, it was one of the most painful 207 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: moments of his life. It was in the midst of 208 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: the separation from Elisa's mom. 209 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 5: I was walking out of the garage carrying a box, 210 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 5: and you can see straight into the house from the driveway, 211 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 5: and Elise was in the dining room. Well when she 212 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 5: saw me, she darted back into the living room and 213 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 5: kind of hid herself so I couldn't see her. But 214 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 5: I know for a fact that she saw me because 215 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 5: we made eye contact. 216 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: I get that this had to have been painful for Billy, 217 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: But as Elisa's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about 218 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: his pain. It's about his daughter's pain and her anger. 219 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: And if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that, 220 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: I can't imagine that something Billy wants to hear, and 221 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,479 Speaker 1: I'm worried how he'll react. 222 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 5: As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf, 223 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 5: that I can assure you is completely understandable. 224 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me. 225 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 5: I basically putn't it bluntly shit all over that woman 226 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 5: on many occasions. He was one particular Sunday morning that 227 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 5: she was a cooking breakfast and the phone rings and 228 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 5: there's a woman on the phone, and the woman says, Hey, 229 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 5: this is Angela. Can I speak to Billy? And my 230 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 5: wife said, well, who are you? And she just openly 231 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 5: older she said, well, I'm his girlfriend. Can you imagine 232 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 5: a wife getting a own concosation like that on a 233 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 5: Sunday morning in the middle of breakfast, saying I'm your 234 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 5: husband's girlfriend. If at least broke is that with you? 235 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 5: I can assure you that everything will word that she 236 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 5: says is accurate, And if it's not a really ugly picture, 237 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 5: she's left something like, because trust me, it's a really 238 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 5: ugly picture. But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be 239 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 5: completely honest and open about. The honesting that I have 240 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 5: absolutely no problem discussing anything with. 241 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: You, hearing everything at least had to say about Billy's 242 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: unwillingness to own up his refusal to engage. I was 243 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: expecting the worst, but Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and 244 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: even eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me 245 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: he kept his distance out of fear that at Least 246 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: didn't want to hear from him at all, But he 247 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: thinks about her all the time. 248 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 5: I don't know if it's because I'm getting older either. 249 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 5: I don't know if it's because I feel like I've 250 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 5: lost my daughter. I don't know what it is, but 251 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 5: I was really excited when I found out that she 252 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 5: had reached help to you to make contact with me, 253 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 5: because to me, that means she wants to get our 254 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 5: relationship back, and that is desperately what I want. 255 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: Elise, Hi, how are you nice to meet you? I've 256 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that we 257 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: can call her father together. It will be the first 258 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: time in five years that Alise hears Billy's voice. 259 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 4: How are you feeling very nervous? 260 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 6: You are? 261 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: Do you want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better 262 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: than a nice cup of coffee. Alise declines and we 263 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: settle in for some small talk while I set up 264 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: the call. As we chat, I'm struck by Elise's cultural sensitivity. 265 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 4: Wasn't it Canada Day? Recently? It was I'd be Canada Day? 266 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: Thank you? And I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately 267 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: reciprocal well wish. Hmmm. We're three days after Canada Day, 268 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: so that makes it the third, maybe the fourth of July. Naw, 269 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: I got nothing. I tell the Lease about my conversation 270 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: with Billy. How remorseful and open to talking he seemed. 271 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things 272 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: to progress this far. 273 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 7: I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised 274 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 7: he was candid with you. 275 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: So that's a positive, right, and that's a change. Yeah, 276 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: So do you want to Should we try this? 277 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 5: Sure? 278 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: Make the call? 279 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 280 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: So it's Monday, six in the evening, so it is 281 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: six a m. In the Philippines. It's really yeah, Well 282 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: let's try him. 283 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 8: H Yeah. 284 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: Hello is this Bill? 285 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 5: Yes? 286 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: Hi Bill, This is Jonathan Goldstein speaking Hi buddy. 287 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 5: What's going on? 288 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: Well, I'm here with Elise he did. 289 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 5: Hi, Hi, honey, how are you? 290 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 4: I I'm good, how are you? Everything is good to end, 291 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 4: that's good. 292 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 5: I'm glad that you were approached Johnson. Any communication that 293 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 5: we can get I think is really good. 294 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry it took such a long time. 295 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 9: I just still pay what I understand. You want Gools 296 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 9: to work German problems. And yeah, things went wrong towards 297 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 9: the end, and yes they're one fault if she shanked. 298 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 5: Back when we shared a lot of great times. 299 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times. 300 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact, 301 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't 302 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes 303 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead, 304 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: she speaks from the heart. 305 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 7: Okay, I have thought about emailing you back. I've just 306 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 7: been so angry that I didn't think it would be productive. 307 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 5: Uh And like. 308 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 4: I have just wanted to like. 309 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 7: Like yell at you or or cry or cuss you 310 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 7: out for leaving not explaining anything. But I don't feel 311 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 7: that like intense anger anymore. And I am sad that 312 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 7: we don't have a relationship like we used to. But 313 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 7: I feel like every time I let you back in 314 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 7: and I forgive you for whatever has happened before, you 315 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 7: end up just breaking my heart again. 316 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 4: And I. 317 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 7: Do find it very insulting that you gave another child 318 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 7: my name, my verse and last name. 319 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 4: And I don't know. 320 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 7: I don't know what relationship we're going to have in 321 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 7: the future. I just I had to sort of get 322 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 7: some of this out for any of that to be possible. 323 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond, 324 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: he skips right over the big question about his leaving 325 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: with that explanation and focuses on the second question instead, 326 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: the question of Elisa's name. 327 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 5: Well, I can tell you that it was her mother 328 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 5: who loves the name Alice. 329 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 10: I should have contested and said, no, you know, Leasure, 330 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 10: we think them. But I didn't, at least to be 331 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 10: honest with you, and I should have done. The Filipino 332 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 10: culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll give you 333 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 10: another example. One of your favorite dogs is Charlie. Okay, 334 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 10: I've never owned a German shepherd over here, but we 335 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 10: had a dog. But because of the stories that I've told, 336 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 10: what did they call the dog Charlie. 337 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: By the look on her face at least doesn't seem 338 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: reassured by the fact that like her, Charlie, the beloved 339 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: German shepherd from her childhood, had also been replaced. Although 340 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though 341 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to 342 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: save his own hide. In the silence, I try to 343 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit, 344 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want at least 345 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation, 346 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: so I try to steer things in that direction. 347 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: Bill. 348 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: You know you you mentioned feeling regret. What would you 349 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: do differently if you had a chance to do things over? 350 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 5: I don't think that the final outcome would change much. 351 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 5: To be honest with you, I should have called or 352 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 5: a family meeting, and I should have gone over it 353 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 5: in detail, with times and dates and plans. 354 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: A family meeting about leaving your family was not the 355 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: do over I was expecting. After having heard the level 356 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: of Old Testament shame head express in our first phone call, 357 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: I'm surprised that Billy's now talking in the language of 358 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: meetings and launch dates. Alice stares down at the floor. 359 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: She looks at me. Billy's not giving her what she needs, 360 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: so she puts it to him as directly as she. 361 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 7: Can, Like, you have to understand that you just disappeared 362 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 7: and I had no context. Like I want to know 363 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 7: what you were thinking when you left, and like why 364 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 7: you left? 365 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 4: So like what happened? 366 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 5: Well, there are lots of things that I would like 367 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,479 Speaker 5: to explain to you. Is dogging my leaving? 368 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 7: Is that I'm here, I'm listening. If there's anything you 369 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 7: want to. 370 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 8: Say, Well, there were several several things that happened, Alice. 371 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 8: It's a long story that I would like to explain 372 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 8: to you step by step. Got kind of a really 373 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 8: busy schedule today. 374 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 4: Is there any like brief overview? 375 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, honey, I can answer your questions. 376 00:25:58,760 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 9: I have an explanation. 377 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 5: You know what happened, and I would be more than 378 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 5: happy will explain it to you in detail. 379 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: But then nothing. The conversation goes round and round. Billy 380 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: reassures a Lease that he has explanations, explanations of every 381 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: length and level of detail. It's just that he never 382 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: actually shares any more than. 383 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 5: Happy to do that. Every question that you may. 384 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 4: Have, is there anything you've wanted to say to me? 385 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 5: There won't be a question that you will ask me 386 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 5: that I won't answer. 387 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 7: Like right now, you're just telling me that you're going 388 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 7: to tell me, like do you have anything to happen? 389 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: Billy likes to talk about talking about hard things but 390 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: not actually talking about them. Still at least keeps pushing. 391 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 4: I understand that it's very painful for you, but I. 392 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 7: There have been so many times when we've just glossed 393 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 7: over insane things that have happened, crazy things. 394 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 10: I understand that there's got to be explanations for things, 395 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 10: support said and actions, support cloton and things that got done. 396 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 5: And then when all of that is done, you a 397 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 5: lass act for last question. And I have told her 398 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 5: every single thing. 399 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 8: That I want to call her. 400 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: Billy's not making any headway talking about the past, so 401 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: he turns the conversation to the future. 402 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 5: I'm really hoping that before idea, she leave. 403 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 8: This place and I get to see you that which from. 404 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 2: More cos. 405 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 5: I don't want to die that I've seen you with them. 406 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 5: I really don't. 407 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't. I don't want that either, and. 408 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: With that, Alise's hands fall into her lap. As an interlocutor. 409 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: There isn't much for me to do. At least, here's 410 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: what Billy is saying and not saying, and she doesn't 411 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: need any help to understand. So I do the only 412 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: thing I can. I sit beside her, commiserating with raised 413 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: eyebrows and puzzled looks, saying without words, I see the 414 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: same things you do and it's not you. For the 415 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 1: rest of the call, at least stays quiet and allows 416 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: Billy to talk, though it feels as though he's mostly 417 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: talking to himself. 418 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 5: Wouldn't be ill place. Don't look backwards anymore. Just don't 419 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 5: go backwards. There's too much pain back there. 420 00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 9: Don't go back. 421 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 5: It's just respond that happened back then. But let's move forward. 422 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 5: It's just so painful it hurts. 423 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 9: It hurts a lot. 424 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering 425 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: from the future, the present takes hold the when Billy 426 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: can't deny. 427 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 5: I am totally okay. Just wait one minute than one 428 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 5: the I know I'm totally totally responsible for and so, 429 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 5: but if there are any other. 430 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 10: Explanations that I should give to you least you know, 431 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 10: I'll be more than happy to do that. 432 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 5: I will be more than happy to spend my evening 433 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 5: starting to explain that to me. 434 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: Billy promises that that evening he'll send a lease an email, 435 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: an email that will explain everything. But it never arrives, 436 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: not that night, or the next, or any night in 437 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: the months that follow. 438 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 9: I will email you later today, Okay. 439 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 11: Lush, Yeah, Okay, Well, LEI thank you. 440 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 5: I really appreciate it. 441 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: Okay, Bill, Well, have a good rest of the day. 442 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks for thanks for talking, Dun, I appreciate it. 443 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,719 Speaker 5: Okay, I have a great day, honey. 444 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 4: You too, thank you. 445 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 12: Bye, Okay, how you doing. 446 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: Once we're off the phone, Elise and I go over 447 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: what just happened. She tells me she felt steamrolled, and 448 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: I tell her that I felt it too. 449 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 7: I wasn't really sure what I wanted to get out 450 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 7: of it. I don't think that everyone gets sort of 451 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 7: equally agreeable, compromised ending, But for a long time I 452 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 7: felt like the burden of us not having a relationship 453 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 7: was on me because he would email and I would 454 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 7: never respond, and that was kind of the end of it. 455 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 7: And I feel like now that I have tried to 456 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 7: contact him, Like the burden of us not having whatever 457 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 7: relationship I think we should have is not as much 458 00:31:54,320 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 7: on me. I feel a lot less guilt now. Will 459 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 7: never be as close as it sounds like he wanted 460 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 7: us to be. I don't think that's likely, and like 461 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 7: maybe it's okay that I don't push for that. I 462 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 7: think he creates his own universe like I lived. I 463 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 7: was a permanent resident of like Billy world for a 464 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 7: number of years, and I was glad to get off 465 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 7: the ride. Like you don't get to live in the university. 466 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 7: You create and expect it not to affect other. 467 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: People, and other people have been affected. In recent months, 468 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: Elise has been corresponding with a British man named Martin, 469 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: and Martin was able to help Elise answer the question 470 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: of why her father left in a way that Billy 471 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: himself couldn't. Martin believes he's Billy's son, born for Billy 472 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: left England for Chattanooga, so unlike Elise, Martin grew up 473 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: without a father because, like Alise, one day, without warning, 474 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: his father left, moved to another country and started another family. 475 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one. 476 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: There's another man living in England, he tells her, who 477 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: also believes that Billy is his father. The two of 478 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: them have been trying to reach Billy for years. In fact, 479 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: it turns out that Martin and Elise have brushed against 480 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: each other before, a long time ago, when Elise was 481 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: growing up. She remembers the home phone ringing, usually around 482 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: the holidays, and a young man with her father's accent 483 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: on the line asking to speak to Billy. Back then, 484 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: Billy said Martin was a distant cousin, and all these 485 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: years later, Martin still feels like he's being pushed away. 486 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: He just wants Billy to acknowledge him. In learning about 487 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: Martin and her other possible half brother, how her story 488 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: has repeated itself over and over, Alise has found the 489 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: answer she needed, the answer Billy himself was never able 490 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: to give her. It isn't about her or about Martin 491 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: or anyone else. The reason Billy did what Billy did 492 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: is because that's what Billy does. Martin and the other 493 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: possible half brother are planning to take a DNA test, 494 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: and they'd like a lease to take one too. If 495 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,439 Speaker 1: their DNA matches hers Martin says, it's all the proof 496 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: they'll need. Billy will have to accept them as his own. 497 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: When I talked to her on the phone about it 498 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: later on, Elise says she isn't sure a DNA test 499 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: will give Martin the thing he's looking for, but she 500 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: does want to help. 501 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 6: Knowing how much I wanted to close here, it would 502 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 6: definitely be good to be able to provide him some. 503 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: So the next time she and Martin speak, she'll offer him. 504 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 6: This, whatever relationship you have in your head that you 505 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 6: want with him is probably not possible, and I can 506 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 6: confirm that you're genetically related, but that doesn't guarantee that 507 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 6: he will be a presence in your life in a 508 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 6: way that you want, because he's not able to do 509 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 6: that for me. 510 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: In other words, Elise will tell Martin, I see the 511 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: same things you do, and it's not you. A few 512 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: months after our call with her father, Alise and I 513 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: check back in. She tells me she still hasn't heard 514 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: from Billy, but she suspects that around the holidays, like always, 515 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: she'll get that three sentence email, and when she does, 516 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: this time she'll write him back. Whatever holiday it is, 517 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: she'll write, hope, You're well, Love Police. 518 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 3: Now that the Fernentures return into its goodwill home, now 519 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: that the last month's rant is skiming with the damage, 520 00:36:54,239 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 3: the pos take this moment to deserve flee. Traps felt 521 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 3: around for far too. 522 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: From things accident Lee. This episode of Heavyweight was produced 523 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: by me Jonathan Goldstein along with Ba Parker, Khalila Holt, 524 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: and Stevie Lane. The show is edited by Jorge Just 525 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Emily Condon, Kaitlin Roberts, Alex Goldman, Caitlyn Kenney, 526 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: Alex Bloomberg, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode 527 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,760 Speaker 1: with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, Michael Hurst, 528 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on 529 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song 530 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: is by The Weaker Bands courtesy of Epitaph Records, and 531 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: our ad music is by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on 532 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at Heavyweight at gimletmedia 533 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: dot com. You can listen for free on Spotify or 534 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Will be gone for the holidays, 535 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: but back with a new episode in December. In the meantime, 536 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: we'll leave you with something you didn't even know you 537 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: were waiting for. This year's Thanksgiving song by heavyweight audio 538 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: engineer Bobby Lord. It's a special treat to share with 539 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: the whole family once you're tired of talking to each other. 540 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: Take it away, Bob, Jonathan Jonathan Boldstein. 541 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 13: It is Buldsteine old Buldstein, Boldstein, Bullstein, Buldsteine, bold Stein, 542 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 13: bold Star, Bullstop, bullstops. 543 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: I don't listen to podcasts rapidly becoming Tony Shalou. 544 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 13: I think bullshineld Stop, bold Stop bold. 545 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: Stock, because. 546 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 13: Shine, we've wasted our lives become 547 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: We've wasted our lives becoming s