Speaker 1: On the bel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in um? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dronte, my name
Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, and the world is on fire yet again.
Speaker 1: So we are recording and an emergency oops, no rights
Speaker 1: episode of the bachel Cast. Oh we laugh, so we
Speaker 1: don't cry. We laugh so we don't cry, but we
Speaker 1: still cry. But we still also cry, you know, because
Speaker 1: we're laughing so hard. Yeah. Sorry, Uh, difficult week. You know,
Speaker 1: we're doing our best. Uh. I hope everyone is doing well.
Speaker 1: We have been wanting to do this episode for a while,
Speaker 1: but um, we'recovering the movie argument. You know, you clicked on,
Speaker 1: you clicked the episode, you pressed play. That's on you.
Speaker 1: But we we've been wanting to do this episode since
Speaker 1: this movie came out, but we kind of fast tracked
Speaker 1: it for this week for obvious reasons. If you're listening
Speaker 1: to this at a later time, we are recording this
Speaker 1: the week that UM the Supreme Court intention to potentially,
Speaker 1: uh remove the right to abortion has been leaked just
Speaker 1: to be totally clear about what exactly is going on.
Speaker 1: It's very common knowledge, but we want to just be
Speaker 1: sure the Supreme Court is poised to make this decision
Speaker 1: about abortion on whether it's protected by the Constitution or not.
Speaker 1: This was a draft of a February Supreme Court opinion.
Speaker 1: It was leaked, and it's sort of would lead you
Speaker 1: to believe that the Court is going to be overturning
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade Um, which made abortion legal nationwide back
Speaker 1: in the seventies. Basically, they're trying to make abortion unconstitutional
Speaker 1: and rolled back fifty years of progress. There have been
Speaker 1: protests this week. There's been a huge call to action
Speaker 1: to donate to local abortion funds UM, which we will
Speaker 1: you know, right right at the top, we're going to
Speaker 1: be linking to resources UM in the description of this episode.
Speaker 1: We are also pledging a portion of our Patreon income
Speaker 1: this month. UM. Also, something that I learned this week
Speaker 1: is that Planned Parenthood, while a wonderful organization, is not
Speaker 1: the fastest way to get money to local abortion clinics,
Speaker 1: and it is more efficient to donate directly. So that
Speaker 1: so we'll be linking to that um, especially in states
Speaker 1: where abortion is more difficult to access. Uh, God fucking damnit.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it. But but this is this is
Speaker 1: the Unpregnant episode, and this is the Bechtel Cast. But
Speaker 1: what the heck is the Bectel Cast? Caitlin, I simply
Speaker 1: I forget. It's our podcasts, in which we examine movies
Speaker 1: through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Tests simply
Speaker 1: as a jumping off point. The Bechtel Test, of course,
Speaker 1: being a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,
Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are many versions
Speaker 1: of the test, but the one that we currently use
Speaker 1: is as follows. There must be two characters of a
Speaker 1: marginalized gender with names who speak to each other, and
Speaker 1: their conversation has to be about something other than a
Speaker 1: man for two or more lines of dialogue, and ideally
Speaker 1: that exchange of dialogue is narratively impactful. Not going to
Speaker 1: be a problem today because we are covering the movie Unpregnant.
Speaker 1: It is a recent movie. It came in on HBO.
Speaker 1: Max Um, So, Caitlin, do you have what was your
Speaker 1: history with this movie? I did see it right when
Speaker 1: it came out, because there was quite a bit of
Speaker 1: buzz about it. It was released in I think September,
Speaker 1: and a lot of listeners were like, hey, the Bechtel
Speaker 1: Cast should cover this, and we're like, okay, we'll put
Speaker 1: it on the list our list of eight million things
Speaker 1: to cover. But so I did. I did see it. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I didn't like it that much. I
Speaker 1: think that it's doing some really good things and other things,
Speaker 1: the execution is weird. So from a storytelling standpoint, from
Speaker 1: a like Bechtel Cast standpoint, you know, there's there's something
Speaker 1: in your in your pro life, and of course I
Speaker 1: am anti choice, so that I'm sure made it a
Speaker 1: difficult watch for you, certainly certainly. Um No, Like I
Speaker 1: think it's it's a really good premise with execution that
Speaker 1: misses the mark in some regards. But I think maybe
Speaker 1: the reason that we kind of didn't cover it right
Speaker 1: away is that it wasn't necessarily the most our favorite
Speaker 1: our favorite, um. But it is a good conduit by
Speaker 1: which we can discuss current events, so that's why we
Speaker 1: are covering it. Now. What is your relationship with it, Jamie? Uh?
Speaker 1: Literally identical so it when I came out due to
Speaker 1: the buzz due to the listener interest. Also that was
Speaker 1: like a little all over the place it did, I
Speaker 1: mean maybe fall in love with both of the lead
Speaker 1: actors at this movie. Haley Richardson and Barbie fare are
Speaker 1: so fun in this movie. I feel like they are
Speaker 1: able to sell a lot of stuff that is not
Speaker 1: Like just I don't know. The pacing of this movie.
Speaker 1: We we both think is weird, but it's not really
Speaker 1: why we're here to talk about it, even though we'll
Speaker 1: probably keep pointing it out because we're bitches. Ah. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I was excited to see this movie come up. I'm
Speaker 1: very glad it exists because I mean, just in general,
Speaker 1: there is a lot lacking when it comes to the
Speaker 1: representation of abortion in media in general, which we've discussed
Speaker 1: here and there on the show. Yeah extensively. We've we
Speaker 1: covered an Obvious Child on The Matrian a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. At this point, I don't really fully remember
Speaker 1: our discussion around it, but I do remember that movie
Speaker 1: is not my favorite. Like, I don't know, but there
Speaker 1: but there's so few options because abortion movies are so
Speaker 1: often spun as tragedy porn, and like, I really appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and you appreciate it when it came out two years ago,
Speaker 1: that this movie it's an abortion romp while still hitting
Speaker 1: all the appropriate you know points. I feel like it
Speaker 1: treats the subject matter very respectfully. Right, it's a teen
Speaker 1: road trip abortion romp. Look, I would be down for
Speaker 1: another abortion romp. Same. Yeah, it's this movie is all
Speaker 1: over the place, but yeah, as far as what it's
Speaker 1: trying to do, I think it accomplishes the goal. The
Speaker 1: performances are fun, uh, and then we got a lot
Speaker 1: of other stuff to talk about. But that's why we
Speaker 1: recovering this movie. It's I mean truly, I think for
Speaker 1: our listeners, nothing that you're not familiar with already in
Speaker 1: terms of like why this is so horrible and why
Speaker 1: people with uterus as having less rights than two generations
Speaker 1: prior than them is just absolutely fucked beyond belief. But
Speaker 1: I mean, the one thing that this movie doesn't hit
Speaker 1: on that, I mean, it's not anyone movies responsibility to
Speaker 1: hit on everything, but I do think it's an important
Speaker 1: point to make in this conversation of um because this
Speaker 1: is a movie about a teenage girl an underage girl,
Speaker 1: which is relevant to the law. Uh here is you know,
Speaker 1: struggling to get access to an abortion without parental consent
Speaker 1: with extremely religious parents who probably would not want to
Speaker 1: do that. But I think it's important to remember and
Speaker 1: point out that, um, the people who primarily suffer when
Speaker 1: abortion is outlawed are low income people. Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: it becomes very much an issue that's divided among class
Speaker 1: and race lines. And the further marginalized you are by
Speaker 1: American society, the less likely it is you will have
Speaker 1: access to uh safe abortion. So it affects everyone, but
Speaker 1: it also disproportionately affects marginalized people, low income, people of color,
Speaker 1: cross class and race lines, and it Yeah, there's well,
Speaker 1: we'll also link to resources on that. That's I think
Speaker 1: just one of the one of the few important points
Speaker 1: about abortion that this movie didn't completely skip. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: uh so I just want to put that right at
Speaker 1: the top, and I think I'm just gonna I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna read it because that it Unfortunately, this Linda West
Speaker 1: quote goes viral every couple of months when they try
Speaker 1: to repeal Roe v. Wade every couple of months, but
Speaker 1: it is I mean Linda West is brilliant, and I
Speaker 1: just want to read it here before we get into
Speaker 1: uh duncan on the movie, which is what we're good at.
Speaker 1: Uh So, this is Lyndy West on The Daily Show
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. I believe she says this quote.
Speaker 1: Anti choice people are not trying to stop abortion. They're
Speaker 1: trying to legislate who can and cannot have abortions because
Speaker 1: conservative politicians, their wives and mistresses and daughters are always
Speaker 1: going to be able to get an abortion somewhere. All
Speaker 1: criminalizing abortion will do is keep people trapped in poverty
Speaker 1: for generations. That's the goal. And if it wasn't the goal,
Speaker 1: they would spend their time and money on comprehensive sex education,
Speaker 1: free birth control, and free contraception. Unquote. Yeah, no, notes,
Speaker 1: and I'm upset. It's a very upsetting time in the world.
Speaker 1: Should I recap I'm pregnant? Yeah, all right. We open
Speaker 1: on Veronica played by Hailey lou Richardson. She is taking
Speaker 1: a pregnancy test in the bathroom at her high school.
Speaker 1: A girl walks into the bathroom while this is happening.
Speaker 1: This girl is Bailey played by Barbie Ferrara. We learn
Speaker 1: that Veronica and Bailey used to be best friends but
Speaker 1: had a falling out at some point. The test turns
Speaker 1: out to be positive. Veronica is pregnant or she I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, this movie is even though we're like
Speaker 1: even in the depths of Hell. The movie is called
Speaker 1: ant it is called on. That's just a fact. It
Speaker 1: was embarrassing. I mean, and I didn't want it because
Speaker 1: it is like, it's a movie that you want to
Speaker 1: root for, but there it was embarrassing that literally all
Speaker 1: the marketing materials were misspelled. It's not a good look.
Speaker 1: It's not a good look. Everyone the movie is called
Speaker 1: they're saying it wrong. The whole movie they messed up
Speaker 1: spelled wrong on the poster. I bet it spelled wrong.
Speaker 1: I like, hello, yeah, why didn't you call us to
Speaker 1: consult because that would have been our only note. Exactly fine,
Speaker 1: and replace prag with greg Thank you. That scene where
Speaker 1: they're on the ride at the carnival and Veronica is
Speaker 1: dreaming I'm pregnant, she kept messing that line read up.
Speaker 1: She should have been screaming I'm gregnant. I was like,
Speaker 1: don't we have another take of that where she's saying
Speaker 1: the line correctly. It's it's gay and gregnant. We're gay
Speaker 1: and we're gregnant. But yeah, I mean alliteration that scenes
Speaker 1: should have been really hilarious and empowering, but I couldn't
Speaker 1: get past the distraction of of the of the line
Speaker 1: being said wrong over and of her Yeah. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: so she is confirmed to be gregnant. Apparently the condoms
Speaker 1: she used with her boyfriend, Kevin we're not effective. Veronica
Speaker 1: is freaking out. She goes home and researches getting an
Speaker 1: abortion and learns that because she's in Missouri and she's
Speaker 1: under eighteen I believe she's seventeen, she would need her
Speaker 1: parents permission to have an abortion, which she can't ask
Speaker 1: for because her parents are conservative and religious. The closest
Speaker 1: place where she would not need parental consent as a
Speaker 1: minor to get an abortion is Albuquerque, New Mexico, which
Speaker 1: is a roughly fifteen hour drive from where she lives.
Speaker 1: I believe this is all um accurate. So far, so good? Yeah, sadly, Yeah. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: Veronica packs a bag and tells her mom that she's
Speaker 1: going to spend the weekend with her friends studying. She
Speaker 1: goes to her friend's place, but it turns out that
Speaker 1: someone had found her pregnancy test at school in the dumpster,
Speaker 1: and all of her friends are speculating on who it
Speaker 1: belongs to. So Veronica, realizing her friends are going to
Speaker 1: be very judge, decides not to tell them that it's
Speaker 1: her who is pregnant. She sorry, gregnant, Yeah, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: He's not like Hanley Richardson. It's embarrassing. She does tell
Speaker 1: her boy friend Kevin, and he responds by asking her
Speaker 1: to marry him, and then reveals that around a month ago,
Speaker 1: after they were done having sex, he noticed that the
Speaker 1: condom had broken, but didn't tell her. She's very upset
Speaker 1: by this and storms out, Yeah parts parts of this
Speaker 1: scene work for me. Others I'm like, what is going
Speaker 1: on at this? Definitely not in Olive Garden. Uh okay.
Speaker 1: So side note, Jamie and I and our friend Bryant
Speaker 1: are in a group chat called all of Garden Friends,
Speaker 1: and as we speak at this very moment, Bryant is
Speaker 1: texting us from the Olive Gorden Friends group chat, probably
Speaker 1: asking us to go to Alive Garden. I'm guessing he's
Speaker 1: trying to get us. It's even more embarrassing he's trying
Speaker 1: to get us to join his amc A List entourage,
Speaker 1: which I will, which I'm I'm literally doing it right now.
Speaker 1: Is God. Our lives are quite frankly embarrassing, but we're
Speaker 1: really good at it. Okay. So then Veronica goes to
Speaker 1: Bailey and asks if she will drive Veronica to Albuquerque.
Speaker 1: Bailey agrees. They leave that night. That was one of
Speaker 1: my favorite moments in the entire movie. Barbie Fera is
Speaker 1: so funny and charming where she's that thing where she
Speaker 1: slams the door in her face and then she opens
Speaker 1: the door again and she's like, I was kidding, I
Speaker 1: do not have anything going on right. It's so funny.
Speaker 1: I love her very good. So they set off. They
Speaker 1: stop at a pawn shop so that Veronica can pawn
Speaker 1: the engagement ring that Kevin gave her, but he shows
Speaker 1: up because he was following her. Yeah, because he's a stalker.
Speaker 1: But it's a joke. But it's not that you're just like, hello,
Speaker 1: what Kevin character is all over the place. Anyways, it's, uh,
Speaker 1: we need to talk about Kevin and we will we Wow, Wow,
Speaker 1: we do need to talk about Kevin. I'm gonna also
Speaker 1: someday we're going to have to cover a Kevin Smith movie,
Speaker 1: and then and then we're really going to need to
Speaker 1: talk about Kevin. Oh my gosh, there's going to come
Speaker 1: a day when we're gonna need to talk about Kevin who. Well,
Speaker 1: we're the other Kevin's Kevin Costner movie to talk about
Speaker 1: that Kevin passed. I hate him so much. He's like
Speaker 1: my least favorite Hollywood figure. Who the Kevin. I like
Speaker 1: Kevin Klein. I like Kevin Vinkin is good. A Fish
Speaker 1: called Wanda is a fun movie. We don't need to
Speaker 1: talk about that, Kevin, but but I would be happy
Speaker 1: to sure. Anyways, Kevin's sorry an important aspect of the episode. Yeah, alright,
Speaker 1: So Kevin was stalking Veronica, but they get rid of
Speaker 1: him and continue on their way. Along the way, Veronica
Speaker 1: and Bailey start to bond and rekindle their friendship a bit,
Speaker 1: but Bailey also judges Veronica for the person she's become.
Speaker 1: She's become this kind of like sheeple carbon copy of
Speaker 1: all the popular girls that she's friends with. The classic
Speaker 1: It's you know that thing that happens in every movie,
Speaker 1: right where one change but one is a computer video game.
Speaker 1: One's a video game, and one's a book and that's
Speaker 1: not cool. And you changed because Star Trek and I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, now we're talking. Now we're talking.
Speaker 1: She's like, we used to speak cling on together, and
Speaker 1: now we don't speak cling on together because you're too
Speaker 1: busy to do your homework. Question Mark Rict? Anyways, who knows?
Speaker 1: Who knows? The next morning, they set off again, a
Speaker 1: bit behind schedule. They make a pit stop for some
Speaker 1: food and Veronica reveals that she hasn't made an appointment
Speaker 1: yet to get the abortion. Bailey reveals that the car
Speaker 1: they're driving she's ole from her mom's boyfriend, and the
Speaker 1: cops are following them because of this stolen vehicle, so
Speaker 1: they have to bail and abandon the car. But some
Speaker 1: friends that they met at the diner where they stopped, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: they meet when he starts sexually harassing them, but then
Speaker 1: he quickly becomes a hero and their friend. There's a
Speaker 1: whole thing to talk about with this character. But this
Speaker 1: guy named Rod and his friends kind of swoop in
Speaker 1: and give them a ride to these fair grounds that
Speaker 1: are near a bus stop. There at the fair slash
Speaker 1: Derby Center, they meet Kiarra Matthews, who is this Derby
Speaker 1: racer lady who Bailey develops an instant crush on. Bailey
Speaker 1: comes out to Veronica. There's a discussion to be had
Speaker 1: about this whole situation, but um, they to Carnival Ride
Speaker 1: and scream about how they are gay and gregnant. But
Speaker 1: then again Hayley Richardson gets the line wrong. Then this
Speaker 1: married couple Kate and Mark played by Sugar Lynde Beard
Speaker 1: and breck and Meyer. You're like, what this is. There's
Speaker 1: this suspension of disbelief you have to do from this
Speaker 1: point onward. It's a road trip movie. But it's just like, wow,
Speaker 1: We're yeah, they really they really take it to I
Speaker 1: think the second they're like ditch a car at a
Speaker 1: diner in Texas, You're just like, all right, well, I
Speaker 1: guess the movie. The part of the movie that made
Speaker 1: sense to be has ended. It's ceased to exist. This Honestly,
Speaker 1: this script felt like Also there's five credited writers, which
Speaker 1: is usually indication that, like, you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of ideas and inconsistencies and things all mashed together. This
Speaker 1: felt like a second draft of a script, and it
Speaker 1: needed like a fourth or fifth draft. So and it's
Speaker 1: abover because it's a lot of a lot of good writers,
Speaker 1: including Jennifer Cayton Robinson, who wrote Someone Great. She also
Speaker 1: is a credited writer on upcoming thor Love and Thunder.
Speaker 1: Maybe they weren't given enough time question mark. I read.
Speaker 1: I read that the director Rachel Lie Goldenberg, who was
Speaker 1: also a creditive writer, um that this movie was made
Speaker 1: on a very very very tight turnaround. It shows you're
Speaker 1: so mean. I am mean, but I'm so mean about this.
Speaker 1: Let me defend myself here. I think a fun romp
Speaker 1: like road trip romp about girls trying to access an
Speaker 1: abortion is such a great premise and if executed well,
Speaker 1: it could have it could be a movie that, like
Speaker 1: people want to revisit over and over for years to
Speaker 1: come because there's a lot of value in a very
Speaker 1: good movie that also makes an important statement. But if
Speaker 1: a movie is just sort of like executed not that
Speaker 1: well and it's not gonna like, it doesn't really stand
Speaker 1: a chance of being like a cultural touchstone, when a
Speaker 1: movie like this should be a cultural touchstone, you know.
Speaker 1: But that's a lot of pressure to put on one
Speaker 1: movie just because it's about abortion. Fair I do believe
Speaker 1: that there's better movies to come that can take a
Speaker 1: concept like this and hopefully have the time and money
Speaker 1: to make a meal of it. Yeah, because it does like,
Speaker 1: at some point just take a turn for the bizarre
Speaker 1: in a way that does feel like Pineapple Expressie, I
Speaker 1: guess where you're just or like hangovery, where you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: they're just this is just like we're going from set
Speaker 1: piece to set piece and where there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of character actors and there's gonna be a lot
Speaker 1: of really dangerous crimes that are supposed to be funny,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know. Yeah, once the once
Speaker 1: the car thing happens, I'm just like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: not the grounded indeed road trip be I thought I
Speaker 1: was watching, right, I still haven't seen Never rarely sometimes always.
Speaker 1: I think that might be a more grounded and probably
Speaker 1: less like fun tonally, but just like a more grounded,
Speaker 1: probably better executed version of this premise. But I again
Speaker 1: cannot really speak to it because I have not seen it.
Speaker 1: But we should consider covering that one at some point too.
Speaker 1: We should. Hey, I mean they're they're you know, they'll
Speaker 1: be they'll be back for our rights. So there's always
Speaker 1: going to be there. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, don't you worry.
Speaker 1: It's it's Oh sorry if we sound weird today. Uh sorry,
Speaker 1: it's not great. It's not our fault. Also that I
Speaker 1: will I will say one of my least favorite things
Speaker 1: about this movie is the tagline, which is She's a
Speaker 1: taype A without a Plan. B. I was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not the worst, but I don't hate it. I
Speaker 1: She's a taipe without a plan V. It's like, but
Speaker 1: they didn't spell ungregnant, right, Yeah? What um mistakes? Breckon
Speaker 1: Meyer Commire and his wife. Breckon Meyer approaches you at
Speaker 1: a county fair in Texas, w y d start in
Speaker 1: his car. He's like, hey, I overheard that you need
Speaker 1: a ride to New Mexico. We're headed there, and they
Speaker 1: offer Bailey and Veronica a ride, which they accept, but
Speaker 1: before they head off, Bailey and Kira meet up at
Speaker 1: the fair. They kiss, yeah, and then Veronica and Bailey
Speaker 1: leave with this married couple who have a baby. So
Speaker 1: they seem harmless. That's why they, you know, accept the ride.
Speaker 1: This ride from strangers. But this couple turns out to
Speaker 1: be these anti choice crusaders who had actually overheard them
Speaker 1: talking about Veronica getting an abortion and making the appointment,
Speaker 1: which another suspension of disbelief, saying that I'm just like,
Speaker 1: how did they hear? What? No? Anyway, so then they
Speaker 1: kind of abduct Veronica and Bailey, but it's like funny abduction.
Speaker 1: It's it's so wild and zany. They steal the couple's
Speaker 1: SUV and escape, but Breck and Meyer chases them in
Speaker 1: their scary anti abortion RV. They managed to get away
Speaker 1: and they head to a nearby town and find this
Speaker 1: guy Bob played by June Carlo Esposito. Yeah, so you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're just we're just going there, like okay, Breck and
Speaker 1: Meyer tapping him out. Let's tap jan Carlos Busito in like,
Speaker 1: it's just like cars. It is like a character actor
Speaker 1: relay race at some point, Yeah, truly. Yeah. Bob owns
Speaker 1: a limousine service and he takes them the rest of
Speaker 1: the way to Albuquerque, but on the way, Veronica and
Speaker 1: Bailey get in a fight because Veronica said some shitty
Speaker 1: things about Bailey to her friends on the phone that
Speaker 1: Bailey overhears. So Bailey storms off, but Veronica tracks her
Speaker 1: down again. Turns out Bailey had gone to her dad's
Speaker 1: plant shop in Albuquerque because she wants to reconnect with him,
Speaker 1: but he blows Bailey off. Allah Kim Cattrell blowing Britney
Speaker 1: Spears off in Crossroads. Hello, I okay, I did not
Speaker 1: thank you thank you for the Crossroads representation. I literally okay.
Speaker 1: So fun fact about me. I do work with mostly
Speaker 1: men at my day job, you know, and that's brave
Speaker 1: of me. And I tried to contextualize something I was
Speaker 1: pitching for an outline the other day in the context
Speaker 1: of Crossroads, and how did that go? They They were like, wait,
Speaker 1: it's our favorite movie. We love it so much. Why
Speaker 1: isn't it easier to access? Uh? Shanda's early work is
Speaker 1: so underrated? They all said that. In unit said they
Speaker 1: were like, isn't that a store anyway? Isn't that a
Speaker 1: thrift shop? Alright, dude rock Anyways. So Bailey is trying
Speaker 1: to reconnect with her dad, but he's being an asshole.
Speaker 1: So Veronica calls him out, tells him out how awesome
Speaker 1: Bailey is, and then she tastes him. She sure. Then
Speaker 1: they go the rest of the way to the clinic,
Speaker 1: where I'm just glad they used the taser because it
Speaker 1: was like a Chekhov's taser situation. It was a Chekhovs
Speaker 1: tasers certainly, and that's how they decided to use it.
Speaker 1: Good for them. Um. They go the rest of the
Speaker 1: way to the clinic, where Kevin, Veronica's boyfriend, has shown
Speaker 1: up again. She breaks up with him once and for all,
Speaker 1: and then Veronica has her abortion. It all goes well,
Speaker 1: but they need to get back home, so Veronica has
Speaker 1: to call her mom, who arranges for them to fly
Speaker 1: back to Missouri. When Veronica gets home, she and her
Speaker 1: mom have a talk. Her mom is disappointed that Veronica
Speaker 1: had an abortion, but she still loves and supports her.
Speaker 1: And then the next day at school, Veronica tells her
Speaker 1: friends that it was her pregnancy test and then she
Speaker 1: ditches them to sit with Bailey at lunch. The end,
Speaker 1: who ungregnant? And with that, We're gonna take a quick
Speaker 1: break and we'll be back after these I feel like
Speaker 1: Robert products and Services products and we're back. We are back,
Speaker 1: all right. So I guess it probably makes the most
Speaker 1: sense to start by talking about how this movie treats
Speaker 1: the subject of abortion. Um, true, true, Yeah, Because I mean,
Speaker 1: the plot of the movie hinges on the fact that
Speaker 1: access to abortion is often limited because our society does
Speaker 1: not like it when people with uterus is have bodily autonomy.
Speaker 1: So the movie becomes commentary on how unjust and ridiculous
Speaker 1: and harmful limited access. It's yes, um, one thing that
Speaker 1: I liked about. So again, I think my my biggest
Speaker 1: criticism of how this movie handles the topic of abortion
Speaker 1: is it makes just no reference to what we're talking
Speaker 1: about earlier, of how people with verses who are marginalized
Speaker 1: by race and class tend to be disproportionately affected by
Speaker 1: this issue. Something that even if Hayley Richardson is the
Speaker 1: protagonist of this movie, even though you would argue she's
Speaker 1: not like the best candidate for it, but even if
Speaker 1: she is, like there was room in the story for that,
Speaker 1: Like you could cut so many things in favor of
Speaker 1: finding a way to make that very important point. There
Speaker 1: are other areas that I thought the movie was more
Speaker 1: effective on. UM. I always get. I mean, we've talked
Speaker 1: about this. Anytime there's a movie about teen girls, they
Speaker 1: have to be like middle to upper middle class or
Speaker 1: we'll we'll simply die. This happens with very little exception.
Speaker 1: We do see that Bailey's character is being raised by
Speaker 1: a single mom, you know, uh, and that becomes important
Speaker 1: to her story. But still, in general, this is like
Speaker 1: a middle class story, and you know, when Bailey does
Speaker 1: need to be built up by her parents financially, it's
Speaker 1: not a problem. It's more of a beliefs issue, which
Speaker 1: is something I thought was good. We're like in the
Speaker 1: character of oh, sorry I met Veronica, not Bailey, It's sorry,
Speaker 1: we understood losing my rights over here, give me a brain, um.
Speaker 1: But I did like that in one character, the story
Speaker 1: was able to incorporate how she is struggling to access
Speaker 1: abortion because of where she lives and because of the
Speaker 1: laws of where she lives, and what an absurd distance
Speaker 1: and this is like all true that an underage person
Speaker 1: would need to go to to get an abortion without
Speaker 1: the consent of their parents. I thought at that point
Speaker 1: was like they really hammer it home. And that scene
Speaker 1: on the train tracks where she's basically giving like a
Speaker 1: speech to the Senate, right, but it's effective, Like for
Speaker 1: you know, I wish I had heard stuff like that
Speaker 1: when I was a teenager. Like you can argue it's
Speaker 1: a little overwrought, but for what it is, I'm like
Speaker 1: it's all effective, um, and also it manages you, um,
Speaker 1: kind of tie in the theme of parents that would
Speaker 1: not consent and having to navigate that. And I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, for all the weirdness that happens in the trip,
Speaker 1: I thought that that worked of like Veronica, Um, even
Speaker 1: though she needs help getting back home, she knows that
Speaker 1: she needs to get there and get her abortion before
Speaker 1: her parents can be involved, and it has to be
Speaker 1: like the whole story is driven by her desire to
Speaker 1: get an abortion and not design whatever she she wants
Speaker 1: to get an abortion. She does. It's the right choice
Speaker 1: for her, and her parents just can't be involved because
Speaker 1: of their beliefs. So yeah, I thought it managed to
Speaker 1: get a lot of common issues with abortion access in
Speaker 1: but also missed some glaring, glaring ones. Yeah, exactly right,
Speaker 1: because it's like, yes, Ronica has to travel close to
Speaker 1: three hundred miles to be able to access an abortion,
Speaker 1: but the movie does feel like it kind of reeks
Speaker 1: with white privilege that the movie does not interrogate anyway. Uh,
Speaker 1: money is not really an obstacle for her. She starts
Speaker 1: out with I think a thousand dollars and then gets
Speaker 1: an additional hundred after pawning the ring. The ring was
Speaker 1: such a contrivance. I was so annoyed by the ring.
Speaker 1: I was like, what's happening? But yeah, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like unequivocally true that black and Hispanic people are most
Speaker 1: affected if Roe v. Wade is overturned, and that is
Speaker 1: just not a space that is made in the movie.
Speaker 1: Certainly not. However, I would say that the way the
Speaker 1: movie handles other aspects of abortion I thought or generally
Speaker 1: very positive and handled well in the sense that when
Speaker 1: Veronica finally does get to the clinic to have the abortion,
Speaker 1: the movie like walks you through via voiceover and visuals
Speaker 1: what one can expect from the procedure. You know, It's
Speaker 1: like you change into the gown, you get the vaginal ultrasound,
Speaker 1: They'll draw some blood, They'll hook you up to an
Speaker 1: i V. You'll sit in a waiting room with other
Speaker 1: people who are waiting for the same procedure. You go
Speaker 1: in for surgery. The athesiologists will put you under. The
Speaker 1: doctor will insert a wand to remove the fetus. It
Speaker 1: will be done in ten minutes. You wake up in
Speaker 1: the recovery room. Like walking through someone step by step,
Speaker 1: especially someone who's never had an abortion, or like a
Speaker 1: teenager who is maybe terrified at the idea of it
Speaker 1: because there's so much misinformation out there and so much
Speaker 1: rhetoric about how evil and awful and scary and violent
Speaker 1: and murderous abortion is that the right perpetuates. So like
Speaker 1: if a teen is seeing this, or like just any
Speaker 1: young person or a teen's parents too, I mean, I
Speaker 1: really do think like there's been so much generational misinformation
Speaker 1: about abortions where I know, like in conversations I've had
Speaker 1: with older women and older people in general in my
Speaker 1: life that even though they are pro choice, I think
Speaker 1: that they have some anxiety around what abortion entails that
Speaker 1: is based on like fearmongering from their generation, from when
Speaker 1: Roe V. Wade was passed the first time, you know.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think that like truly anyone could
Speaker 1: benefit from watching that. And I have a quote from
Speaker 1: the director here because I thought that, yeah, that part
Speaker 1: was obviously it's like the most important part of the movie,
Speaker 1: um and and it seems like they took a lot
Speaker 1: of care with it. So the director, Rachel Lee Goldenberg,
Speaker 1: had this to say in an interview with a Word
Speaker 1: Daily dot Com scholarly Journal, Yeah, okay, Awards Daily dot Com.
Speaker 1: She has a quote, I've had an abortion, but I
Speaker 1: had a pill abortion. This was new information to me,
Speaker 1: which is wild. I had this moment where I knew
Speaker 1: I wanted to do something special when I came on board.
Speaker 1: It wasn't fully fleshed out in the script yet. I
Speaker 1: went with my writing partner on a tour of planned
Speaker 1: parenthood in Los Angeles and asked the nurses to walk
Speaker 1: us through it. It made me realize how much he
Speaker 1: didn't know, and that fascinated me. It struck me that
Speaker 1: in the moment, we couldn't spend that much time with
Speaker 1: this young woman and sent her behind a wall. It
Speaker 1: feels like she has come to this place where she
Speaker 1: has said the word abortion and she's confident in her choice.
Speaker 1: So what do we have to be a shamed about now?
Speaker 1: As an audience, we should be on this journey with her.
Speaker 1: As I was going through all the rooms, I had
Speaker 1: no idea there were so many I should show people
Speaker 1: that most importantly, it comes from a character place and
Speaker 1: this is what Veronica is going through unquote. So I like, that's, uh,
Speaker 1: that's lovely because that's like I think that you know,
Speaker 1: even even people who support the right to abortion don't
Speaker 1: necessarily know what it entails. And I would include myself
Speaker 1: in that in certain respects. So good scene, Yeah, can
Speaker 1: I found it informative and and helpful and esthetically pleasing.
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty, it's calm, it's you know, the voiceover
Speaker 1: is very calming. Yeah, just representation on screen of an
Speaker 1: abortion taking place that isn't like scary, that isn't a
Speaker 1: character panicking and freaking out. I'm reminded of that scene
Speaker 1: from Blue Valentine that we discussed recently where the character
Speaker 1: seems in pain and then freaks out and then stops
Speaker 1: the abortion mid procedure. So I just I appreciate just
Speaker 1: showing an abortion as a medical procedure that is quick
Speaker 1: and not necessarily a horribly dramatic experience. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it it kind of without even having to. But
Speaker 1: that speaks to the point of, like how important it
Speaker 1: is to have access to safe abortions too, because Veronica
Speaker 1: has to travel, you know, a thousand miles to have
Speaker 1: a safe abortion that her parents don't have to consent to,
Speaker 1: which should not be the case. I mean, she states
Speaker 1: it very on the nose and broadly and that scene
Speaker 1: in the train tracks where it's like, why do I
Speaker 1: need my parents permission to get an abortion? But I
Speaker 1: don't need my parents permission to have a GREG, to
Speaker 1: to shove a GREG through my bodily canals, et cetera. Um. Um,
Speaker 1: But like seeing seeing um, seeing her get a safe
Speaker 1: abortion that she's you know, very comfortable with, which is
Speaker 1: I think yet another thing that Blue Valentine funked up.
Speaker 1: And and we've been hearing that point a lot this week,
Speaker 1: and it's something we've heard in the past, because it
Speaker 1: is true that, you know, abortion being made illegal or
Speaker 1: far more difficult to access is not going to end abortions.
Speaker 1: It's just going to make them less safe for people
Speaker 1: who need them. So um, yeah, I think seeing her
Speaker 1: finally get access to a safe abortion that she is
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's never and I think that that's
Speaker 1: like smart writing as well, where she's never unwavering on
Speaker 1: her on what she knows is the right decision for her. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's just all the other stuff that is weird, Right,
Speaker 1: It's like everything is surrounding this specific abortion for this
Speaker 1: specific character I think is handled well. The lead up
Speaker 1: to it. They managed to work in some important statistic
Speaker 1: into the dialogue. I thought you're talking about the weird
Speaker 1: stuff they do, like the you know they say like
Speaker 1: at the fair, They're like, it's simply a medical procedure
Speaker 1: one and four. You know, they say women, I would say,
Speaker 1: people with you terses have an abortion. You know. Breck
Speaker 1: and Meyer is like, did you know that having an
Speaker 1: abortion will reduce your chances of getting pregnant later on?
Speaker 1: And Veronika is like, no, that is completely false. So
Speaker 1: and then Breck and Mera went, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'll leave now. Um. So,
Speaker 1: there's like some good facts and stats about abortions that
Speaker 1: they work into the dialogue in sometimes clunky ways, other
Speaker 1: times more seamless ways. It feels a little edge detainment.
Speaker 1: At times. The info is good, right, right, And then
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the abortion, where you know, Verona comes
Speaker 1: out with a spring in her step. She she seems
Speaker 1: to be feeling well. She tells Bailey that she feels relieved.
Speaker 1: She tells her mom later on, like, I know I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to probably feel bad about this abortion, but I
Speaker 1: don't feel bad at all. I know that I made
Speaker 1: the right choice for me, and even though her mom says, well,
Speaker 1: I'm disappointed, like, Veronica never apologizes or kind of wavers
Speaker 1: in her feelings of this was definitely the right choice
Speaker 1: for me. So to have all of that represented on
Speaker 1: screen is great and I think the movies strongest element.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, and I did um. I was
Speaker 1: also interested to read in that same interview with the
Speaker 1: director rachel Leie Goldenberg, that there were multiple options of
Speaker 1: how to kind of land the plane on Veronica's relationship
Speaker 1: with their mom at the end of the movie. I
Speaker 1: do kind of I think, for what the movie is
Speaker 1: and what the tone of the movie is, I like
Speaker 1: where it landed because it felt a little soapy, but
Speaker 1: without being like completely unrealistic. Because when she got home,
Speaker 1: I was like, it would be weird to me if
Speaker 1: the mom was just I mean, it would be great
Speaker 1: in the life of this fictional character if her mom
Speaker 1: was like, it's totally okay, I totally accept you, like
Speaker 1: that is what you would want as a teenager. But
Speaker 1: I like that it was it felt more grounded in
Speaker 1: a way that the vast majority of the movie doesn't wear.
Speaker 1: Her mom says, I think that the line is something
Speaker 1: like I would not have made that choice. That is
Speaker 1: not the choice that your sister made, because we learned
Speaker 1: at the beginning that her sister also um had a
Speaker 1: child relatively young, and it just sounds like the mom is,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of starting a journey. I would hope
Speaker 1: towards being able to respect a person's right to choose
Speaker 1: what to do with they're fucking body, um, and I
Speaker 1: would hope that that is something that like, I think
Speaker 1: that that's a useful scene potentially for for older people
Speaker 1: to see. Yeah, so I I kind of thought that
Speaker 1: was cool choice. Yeah, I think it at tracked For me,
Speaker 1: it played pretty realistic in a movie that often abandons realism.
Speaker 1: The whole second act is like it takes place on
Speaker 1: a different planet, but then it comes back to the planet.
Speaker 1: I have complicated feelings about it because on one hand,
Speaker 1: I like that this movie is totally very light and
Speaker 1: a romp. Yes, not to say that like getting an
Speaker 1: abortion is a fun romp, but I think that this
Speaker 1: movie's lighthearted tone helps take away a lot of the
Speaker 1: scariness and you know, apprehension that some people might feel
Speaker 1: around getting an abortion. But there's a lot of instances
Speaker 1: where the movie gets very cartoonish in a way that
Speaker 1: I had difficulties suspending my disbelief for It's so the
Speaker 1: second act of this movie is so weird and all
Speaker 1: over the place. Yeah, did you have anything else to
Speaker 1: sort of talk about about the fairly grounded third act
Speaker 1: of the movie, Because I don't think we can get
Speaker 1: into the we can get into the fun stuff. Now, sure,
Speaker 1: let's let's take a quick break and then dive in
Speaker 1: and we're back. Uh yeah, where would you like to start?
Speaker 1: I said, the fun stuff? It's not also not there.
Speaker 1: There is some stuff that I would say. I would
Speaker 1: say the whole breck and Meyer portion of the movie, Like,
Speaker 1: I can't even get mad about it. I'm just like that,
Speaker 1: what a weird way to frame an abduction, Like it's
Speaker 1: so goofy that I'm I don't, I can't in good
Speaker 1: faith be like that's bad for the use of the world.
Speaker 1: And it's like I just think it's just like kind
Speaker 1: of weirdly written, and like why, Yeah, it's like all
Speaker 1: all well and good. It makes sense that they're traveling,
Speaker 1: you know, through the Deep South. It makes sense that
Speaker 1: they would potentially meet people who are not in favor
Speaker 1: of the right to an abortion. It makes sense as
Speaker 1: an obstacle in this story, but the execution is what
Speaker 1: I think, not really doing much or it's no, it's
Speaker 1: I would I would say it's doing a lot well,
Speaker 1: doing much as far as like effective commentary. Oh yeah, no, no, zero.
Speaker 1: But but was I laughing kind of? But I was
Speaker 1: just like confused. I you know, I like breckon a lot.
Speaker 1: He's enjoying the post that sequence was so Yeah, I
Speaker 1: worked with him on Robot Chicken. He's the best sweetheart,
Speaker 1: But that that whole sequence is very, very strange. I
Speaker 1: didn't understand. Uh there, what what are other stuff that is?
Speaker 1: Like I don't have really, there's just so many sad
Speaker 1: pieces of this movie that you're like, actually, we need
Speaker 1: to talk about Kevin. Okay, let's talk about we need
Speaker 1: to talk about Kevin. Where where to begin with? On
Speaker 1: one hand, I guess the positive thing about Kevin's involvement
Speaker 1: in the story is that he is a creepy, stalkery,
Speaker 1: manipulative boyfriend who is actually framed as having those toxic
Speaker 1: qualities since a lot of teen movies have historically presented
Speaker 1: those behaviors and traits as being romantic, so at least, yes,
Speaker 1: it doesn't do that. I do like that. I like
Speaker 1: the line that that Barbie Ferrara says where she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's say anything stuff like I thought that that, you know,
Speaker 1: that worked well when she was like, yeah, he kept
Speaker 1: asking me to go out with him until I said yes,
Speaker 1: and I prefer its like, uh, that sucks. Yeah. Veronica
Speaker 1: was like he stood outside my window all night one
Speaker 1: night and Barbie's like, yeah, say anything. Made that seem cute,
Speaker 1: but it's called stalking. I just think that when it
Speaker 1: comes to we need to talk about Kevin, I just
Speaker 1: felt like, where Veronica and Bailey tend to be pretty
Speaker 1: grounded characters, it did not find Kevin to be a
Speaker 1: very grounded character. And I think it would have been
Speaker 1: more effective commentary if he were, because he does come
Speaker 1: off a little cartoony where it's not that he's not
Speaker 1: doing things that young men often do in this situation,
Speaker 1: which is be conditioned to be like, you know, we
Speaker 1: have to settle down together and like, you know, acting
Speaker 1: like they're living a hundred years ago. That like, for
Speaker 1: sure happens. Stalking certainly happens. Predatory creepy behaviors in relationships
Speaker 1: certainly happened, but the way it's written and framed and like,
Speaker 1: it just felt goofy and cartoony, and I just didn't
Speaker 1: think it didn't land for me. Yeah, he just seemed
Speaker 1: like a character that was written to say a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff that men say in these situations. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like he was like Patriarchy the Guy of this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in a very like one dimensional way, rather than being
Speaker 1: a character that felt like a real person who also
Speaker 1: may say those things. But just I don't know if
Speaker 1: it was the performance or just like the lack of
Speaker 1: development put into this character, but it did feel too
Speaker 1: cartoonish to feel like it was making any kind of
Speaker 1: effective commentary. I think it was like it was a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on. But I will, okay, I
Speaker 1: want to I want to put that on wax and
Speaker 1: make that an official Betel Cask canon. Patriarchy the Guy
Speaker 1: as a stock character because I always understand where it's
Speaker 1: coming from, and I rarely find it to be effective.
Speaker 1: It's never just one guy, never just one guy. And again,
Speaker 1: even if they're even if you do have a character
Speaker 1: that represents a lot of ideology perpetuated by the patriarchy,
Speaker 1: sure it still needs to be like handled in a
Speaker 1: way that makes sense. We live in a society for
Speaker 1: crying out loud. If you got patriarchy, the guy, I
Speaker 1: want to know how he became patriarchy the guy. He
Speaker 1: wasn't born patriarchy the guy tell you that much. I
Speaker 1: don't know why I'm upset. I think I'm just hungry. Um. Same,
Speaker 1: we need to talk about Kevin. Yeah that I I
Speaker 1: support the spirit of it. I didn't think it was
Speaker 1: executed in a way that made sense. What about what
Speaker 1: about Dad tazing? How do we feel about Dad tasting?
Speaker 1: I didn't That didn't work for me either. Nope, Um,
Speaker 1: that did not work for me. I would say it
Speaker 1: plays into some tropes to like, I don't know there
Speaker 1: was that there was also there's a scene where like
Speaker 1: Bailey notices a cop following them and then they just
Speaker 1: veer off the road in a way that makes them
Speaker 1: seem extremely suspicious. But then the cop is like welp,
Speaker 1: which they famously are obsessed with. I don't understand why
Speaker 1: Veronica wasn't more panicked. Right when Barbie Ferre did that,
Speaker 1: She's just like, oh, yeah, I guess let's get breakfast,
Speaker 1: like right, and she's just like yeah, it sounds great.
Speaker 1: There's a couple different times where like there is a
Speaker 1: problem presented and then it immediately goes away, which I
Speaker 1: just always I'm like, man like, when they wake up
Speaker 1: late in the middle of the desert and they're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be late, and then it's followed by a
Speaker 1: montage of them like kind of hanging out, like feeding animals.
Speaker 1: I was like, so they're not, like right, so they're
Speaker 1: on time, jing at a diner, So why did that happen?
Speaker 1: If that would happen, you would starve or go to
Speaker 1: a McDonald's. Come on. Similarly, there's a scene where Veronica
Speaker 1: comes back to the limo after she and Bailey have
Speaker 1: had this big fight where Bailey storms off and Bob
Speaker 1: is fixing the limo because it has broken down, and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, what the heck? What how is long
Speaker 1: is this gonna take? And then he's like, oh, just
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, and then cut to them in the limo
Speaker 1: driving off again. So it's like, Okay, this wasn't an
Speaker 1: obstacle then, so cut it out of the script. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff like that. The whole just
Speaker 1: the timeline of the entire story didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: It seemed like sometimes it would be like midnight, but
Speaker 1: then they were at a fair and then they were like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's drive for four more hours to Albuquerque. Or it
Speaker 1: would be like five o'clock in the morning and they're like, hurry,
Speaker 1: we have to drive four hours to get to the
Speaker 1: appointment at eight A. Yeah, you know, just like all
Speaker 1: this stuff that made knows their money and the way
Speaker 1: the money was spent was so bizarre to me. They
Speaker 1: didn't use Google Maps on their phones the entire time.
Speaker 1: What I don't that is like a major I mean,
Speaker 1: I still believe that we as a society have not
Speaker 1: figured out how to effectively put phones in media. And
Speaker 1: anytime you hear like whoop, unlike something annoying is about
Speaker 1: to happen, and it's always like they they do the
Speaker 1: Jane the Virgin thing where it's like the text appears
Speaker 1: alongside the head. You're like, I guess this is about
Speaker 1: as well as we can do, but it always feels
Speaker 1: cheesy and and and then to write around that by
Speaker 1: being like she she's a book, so she printed a map,
Speaker 1: Like why are we using a map? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: You don't know what turns to make and what exits
Speaker 1: to take when you print out a map that spans
Speaker 1: three hundred miles, like there aren't enough detail whatever. More importantly,
Speaker 1: I would like to talk about the way queerness is
Speaker 1: handled in the movie. Sure. So they're at the fair,
Speaker 1: Veronica senses that Bailey might like girls, which she kind
Speaker 1: of like coaxes out of her, which I would say
Speaker 1: maybe not the best approach, especially since they're not really
Speaker 1: friends anymore, and maybe Bailey does not want to slash
Speaker 1: is not ready to come out to Veronica. But eventually
Speaker 1: Bailey nonchalantly says like, yeah, I like girls, No big deal.
Speaker 1: And then Veronica assume assumes that she's the first person
Speaker 1: that Bailey came out to, and Bailey's like, no, I've
Speaker 1: been out to my mom for years, plus this list
Speaker 1: of other people, which I didn't mind. It was nice
Speaker 1: to like that we didn't have to have like a yes,
Speaker 1: this is my secret and and I'm finally coming out
Speaker 1: and like all the ways that that's often weirdly handled
Speaker 1: in media. So I'm glad we avoided that. And if
Speaker 1: I remembering correctly, I think that that is like something
Speaker 1: Barbie Farra has also spoken about, like wanting to see
Speaker 1: Mora because Barbie as a queer woman herself, and it
Speaker 1: seems like that's like something that she appreciates in a character.
Speaker 1: So I was all for that. It's like just the
Speaker 1: one offline. You're like, Okay, that works, right. Um. What
Speaker 1: I am more concerned about is the kind of brief
Speaker 1: romance between Bailey and Kira. I am glad that the
Speaker 1: script gave some real estate to a queer relationship, but
Speaker 1: I felt weird about it because Bailey is still in
Speaker 1: high school presumably the same age as Veronica seventeen, and
Speaker 1: Kira seems to be pretty significantly older. She and all
Speaker 1: her friends I think are at least twenty one, because
Speaker 1: we see them like drinking alcohol in public that they
Speaker 1: seem to have legally purchased. There's other indicators that I'm like,
Speaker 1: Kira is like twenty five at least it just would
Speaker 1: have been like again, it's and we see this that
Speaker 1: feels like it's falling back on just a general teen
Speaker 1: movie trope where that's how many times have you seen
Speaker 1: that in like hetero context in a teen movie, Like
Speaker 1: that's just a classically bad trope that you would think
Speaker 1: this movie would have thought like, why couldn't they just
Speaker 1: meet another high schooler at the fucking fair. It's actually
Speaker 1: statistically more likely that you would so easy, such an
Speaker 1: easy choice to make. Why you have doing the derby
Speaker 1: whatever that's called. Yeah, but why not? You're in Texas,
Speaker 1: That's probably That's what I pictured teenagers in Texas doing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're driving soapblockers around I don't know my business.
Speaker 1: They're driving mad Max Fury road vehicles around a track.
Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, I was like, it looks cool, like
Speaker 1: no disrespect before all of our listeners from Texas are
Speaker 1: like mad at me. But yeah, I mean, I just
Speaker 1: think that that character. I I think that it may
Speaker 1: have just been that the movie wanted to cast Betty Who,
Speaker 1: who is like this iconic queer singer who plays the role,
Speaker 1: which for sure like Betty Who's awesome. However, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that, like, this movie seems very vested in steering
Speaker 1: clear of teen movie tropes, and so having a teenager
Speaker 1: hook up with someone who seemed to be well into
Speaker 1: young adulthood felt like a very clear mistake, really icky,
Speaker 1: and essentially, because queerness is so infrequently represented in this
Speaker 1: genre in a meaningful way, it feels like an even
Speaker 1: bigger fumble for sure, especially because what happens after they
Speaker 1: meet and have flirted a little bit. They're in like
Speaker 1: a ballpit or something, and Kira turns into a music video.
Speaker 1: Kira does ask for consent to kiss Bailey, which great,
Speaker 1: always get consent, but then Bailey is like, I've never
Speaker 1: kissed anyone before, and like, twenty seven year old Kira
Speaker 1: should have been like, oh, actually, maybe I shouldn't kiss
Speaker 1: this stranger. She keeps getting older in your mind, she
Speaker 1: do years her mid late twenties. She should have been like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I shouldn't kiss this stranger after all,
Speaker 1: who is clearly a teenager. So that makes it seem
Speaker 1: like there's this kind of like predatory lesbian trope happening,
Speaker 1: and it just felt really icky. It just it's like,
Speaker 1: just cast someone else. I'll due respect to Betty who
Speaker 1: because it's like you don't want you know, I want
Speaker 1: Barbie to get her first kiss, but like from a
Speaker 1: high school from another seventeen year old, Like, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was not hard to do at the very least. It
Speaker 1: is queer characters played by queer actors. Since both Barbie
Speaker 1: Farra and Betty Who are queer. But and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, Barbie Ferrera is like twenty five like it
Speaker 1: in terms of like production wise, it's all of a
Speaker 1: board in the story it doesn't work. Yes, great, so again,
Speaker 1: great idea of like a queer teen getting her first kiss,
Speaker 1: but the execution. And that's not to say that, you know,
Speaker 1: teenagers don't sometimes get their first kiss from someone who
Speaker 1: is technically a legal adult. I don't always like feel
Speaker 1: super comfortable gatekeeping like a seventeen year old can't kiss
Speaker 1: eighteen and a half year old like stuff like that,
Speaker 1: like obviously, like it's a lived experience thing. But because
Speaker 1: it's like a movie and it seems to be a
Speaker 1: significant age gap, that that is more where I have
Speaker 1: the issue. Yeah, so uh yeah, I I also made
Speaker 1: a note of that. But you know, Barbie Frere and
Speaker 1: Betty Who relationship, I r L. I would take it fine,
Speaker 1: fine by me? Why not? I also went to examine
Speaker 1: So we've already discussed how the movie fails to acknowledge
Speaker 1: in any meaningful way that women of color are disproportionately
Speaker 1: affected by limited access to abortion. There's another way in
Speaker 1: which race is very mishandled. So in general, the characters
Speaker 1: of color, whether it's like Veronica's friends who we meet
Speaker 1: at the beginning and end, whether it's the people who
Speaker 1: Veronica and Bailey meet along the way of this road trip. Also,
Speaker 1: a woman who owns a pawn shop is a black
Speaker 1: woman who pulls a shotgun on we need to talk
Speaker 1: about Kevin, Right. You have the Geane Carlo Esposito character,
Speaker 1: who is also a gun loving eccentric, like a what's
Speaker 1: the oh my god, what's the u anni kind of yeah, libertarian,
Speaker 1: libertary type yeah. And then you have the was the
Speaker 1: character's named Gerade Gerade, Yeah, who is presented as a
Speaker 1: pred tory character who's harassing them and then becomes their friend.
Speaker 1: And I don't know how much of that is a
Speaker 1: failure of writing, how much of that is a failure
Speaker 1: of casting, right, because I would argue that those characters
Speaker 1: don't necessarily seem like they're written to be any particular
Speaker 1: race exactly. Okay, So there's a lot to unpack about that.
Speaker 1: So in general, the people of color just serve as
Speaker 1: scenery in this white story, or like helpers of the
Speaker 1: white characters, um white or white passing. Right. Gerrard is
Speaker 1: one of the only black characters in the movie, and
Speaker 1: he's also the character that draws a lot of attention
Speaker 1: to himself and creates a diversion when cops in Texas
Speaker 1: come looking for whoever stole this vehicle. That was like
Speaker 1: so fucking bizarre. It feels like one of those things where,
Speaker 1: like you said, the character probably wasn't specifically written as black,
Speaker 1: but a black actor was cast in that role, but
Speaker 1: the script wasn't change in any way to reflect the
Speaker 1: actions or choices that a black person would most likely make. Um.
Speaker 1: I want to cite this great article I've found written
Speaker 1: by Kendall Cunningham entitled color Blind Justice. Unpregnant is too
Speaker 1: White to be revolutionary from Bitch Media. I'll just read
Speaker 1: a few quotes and do some some paraphrasing. Here, Kendall
Speaker 1: says quote. While Unpregnant succeeds in illustrating a larger thesis
Speaker 1: about the state sanctioned roadblocks to abortion, it fails at
Speaker 1: developing its supporting characters, specifically black people who rescue Veronica
Speaker 1: and Bailey from peril and help them reach their destination.
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell whether these one dimensional characters of
Speaker 1: black people as benevolent saviors are part of a broad
Speaker 1: message about prejudice that the writers failed to develop, or
Speaker 1: the result of color blind and casting with no consideration
Speaker 1: of the stereotypes and problematic tropes being invoked. By the
Speaker 1: end of the otherwise charming and well written film, I
Speaker 1: felt annoyed and exhausted by displays of empathy and sacrifice
Speaker 1: that so often go unthanked and unreturned by white people,
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to the larger political issue of
Speaker 1: reproductive justice in the United States. Kendall goes on to
Speaker 1: discuss how all of the black characters from Peg in
Speaker 1: the pawn Shop, Grad in the Diner, Bob the limo
Speaker 1: driver all exists in this narrative only to help this
Speaker 1: white girl on her journey right and here like making
Speaker 1: personal sacrifices too often help her when she does have
Speaker 1: access to like other options. It's really because it's the
Speaker 1: pawn shop owner overpays her for her ring. The gene
Speaker 1: Carlo as Zito character also canonically this was bothering me.
Speaker 1: They would have been getting to the limo place at
Speaker 1: like six in the morning and he was like ump
Speaker 1: and running a limo company. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Drops everything He's like, my business is canceled because a
Speaker 1: white teenage girl needs something like Yeah, it's egregious. And
Speaker 1: then and I think that my my guess is that
Speaker 1: it's there are five white writers on this movie, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that didn't take things into consideration that they should have considered. Um.
Speaker 1: The most egregious example for me was the Gerard scene,
Speaker 1: in which Kendall has this to say. Quote at no
Speaker 1: point in the scene. And this is again the scene
Speaker 1: where Gerard creates a diversion so to distract the cops.
Speaker 1: Quote at no point in the scene. Does it feel
Speaker 1: as if director rachel Leie Goldenberg understands the racial tension
Speaker 1: and potential dangerous situation she's representing on screen. It's hard
Speaker 1: to believe that a black man in Texas, surrounded by
Speaker 1: cops would risk his freedom and possibly his life to
Speaker 1: help two white teenagers get away with a crime, even
Speaker 1: in the seemingly harmless form of patriotic expression. In a
Speaker 1: moment meant to be humorous and charming, Rod comes off
Speaker 1: as an eager puppet for white people. Unquote. Um. And
Speaker 1: then I'll just I'll share because I will will link
Speaker 1: this this piece by Kendall Cunningham in all of the stuff,
Speaker 1: but I just found it very insightful. The last thing
Speaker 1: I'll quote is this quote. It seems as if Unpregnant
Speaker 1: is trying to create a larger point about white folks
Speaker 1: perception of other white folks as immediately trustworthy and well meaning.
Speaker 1: Um parentheses. This is Caitlin talking like the way that
Speaker 1: they immediately trust Breck and Meyer and family versus they
Speaker 1: don't trust grad right away. Also, the movie frames him
Speaker 1: as not trustworthy right away because he hits on them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he makes them uncomfortable. Right. So back to the quote, um,
Speaker 1: white people's perceptions of other white folks as immediately trustworthy
Speaker 1: and well meaning versus their perceptions of black people as
Speaker 1: threatening and unapproachable. If inserted on purpose, this idea rings true,
Speaker 1: but is riddled with notions of respectability, particularly the idea
Speaker 1: that black people should be respected because we might not
Speaker 1: be as hostile as white people may assume us to be.
Speaker 1: There's also the fact that black people hardly received the
Speaker 1: unmitigated compassion and support when it comes to accessing healthcare
Speaker 1: as white characters like Veronica do. Kendall goes on to say,
Speaker 1: if only Unpregnant leaned into this irony a bit more.
Speaker 1: It's black characters may not have seemed as detached from reality. Overall,
Speaker 1: the off putting racial elements and Unpregnant mostly made me
Speaker 1: long for more modern portrayals of black people getting abortions
Speaker 1: in film whose geography and economic status often impede their
Speaker 1: ability to terminate pregnancies as well. Unquote, So shout out
Speaker 1: to that piece written by Kendall Cunningham, and shout out
Speaker 1: to Kendall Cunningham, wonderful writer. Certainly, Yeah that the it
Speaker 1: you can't want five white people write a movie you
Speaker 1: just can't like, and and it's that was I mean
Speaker 1: of the many frustrating, sloppy elements of this movie, particularly
Speaker 1: as Kendall points out, particularly because this is about an
Speaker 1: issue that disproportionately affects black and brown people. Yeah, it's egregious,
Speaker 1: it's unkind to the actors, and it undercuts what it
Speaker 1: appears the movie wants to do, which is be thoughtful,
Speaker 1: thoughtful and progressive, progressive, which the treatment of I would say,
Speaker 1: virtually all of the non white characters in this movie
Speaker 1: are not treated thoughtfully or like like people, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's just I mean, there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: in this movie that aren't acting like people, but the
Speaker 1: way the tropes applied and the clear like even if
Speaker 1: if if a number of these characters were not written
Speaker 1: as UM any particular race, like that's a cast like
Speaker 1: you need to talk to your casting director about what
Speaker 1: their problem is that and depending on who you cast,
Speaker 1: you need to go back and make changes to the
Speaker 1: script to reflect what those characters would actually do and
Speaker 1: say in these situations that you've written. So there's a
Speaker 1: big failure to do that in this movie. A couple
Speaker 1: a couple of different fumbles required for for it to
Speaker 1: turn out quite that bad. Yeah, a few things that
Speaker 1: I thought were not handled the worst. While there is
Speaker 1: not a whole lot of diversity in general, including diversity
Speaker 1: in body size, you do have a character who is fat.
Speaker 1: We have Bailey played by Barbie Ferrera. Especially if for
Speaker 1: comparing this to other teen movies, especially from past decades,
Speaker 1: there is usually a noticeable lack of body diversity um
Speaker 1: where you see nothing but thin usually white Western beauty
Speaker 1: standard bodies, so you usually get a field full of
Speaker 1: Hayley Richardson's right, So it's nice to see some diversity
Speaker 1: in size and have that be normalized. Barbie is like
Speaker 1: truly the funniest. It was, like, again, I felt shutting
Speaker 1: on the reading of this movie a lot. But do
Speaker 1: hear how many like not well written lines Barbie Ferrero
Speaker 1: was able to sell to me. Anyways, I was like, bless,
Speaker 1: like she is just so talented and and yeah, and
Speaker 1: I also appreciated how I feel like in your average
Speaker 1: teen comedy, you don't get to know like Barbie Ferrara's
Speaker 1: role in the story would normally be sidelined quite a
Speaker 1: bit and you wouldn't get to learn a lot about her.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that the movie went out of its way
Speaker 1: to give her her own story, even though sometimes I
Speaker 1: was like, dad, Taser, that's what we're doing. Uh, we're
Speaker 1: leaning into the dead Pete dad trope, and then we're
Speaker 1: doing like this two thousand and seven jet Apatau thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: uh sure, But in any case, and and there were
Speaker 1: I think generally as far as this, I mean, we've
Speaker 1: seen this story of like that you changed and I'm
Speaker 1: a hot topic girl, Uh you know, story a bazillion times.
Speaker 1: But I thought that that was pretty well executed, and
Speaker 1: like the two actors have such great chemistry that even
Speaker 1: when it wasn't awesome, I was like, they clearly like
Speaker 1: each other. I like to that. I think some kind
Speaker 1: of like popular girl tropes are avoided or subverted in
Speaker 1: this movie, where Veronica seems to run with like the
Speaker 1: popular girls, but she she can read like she can read,
Speaker 1: she cares about her studies, she's a trekky nerd. She
Speaker 1: doesn't have street smarts, and she doesn't drink, but she
Speaker 1: does have sex. Like just you know, that's various qualities
Speaker 1: that are usually way more rigidly represented in like a
Speaker 1: popular girl. But you know, she's seems to be more
Speaker 1: well rounded. I don't know, not not a huge thing,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's just like a little a lot
Speaker 1: of little attempts taking place in this movie. Um, did
Speaker 1: you have anything else? I don't have anything else, how
Speaker 1: about you? None of that's about all I had. This
Speaker 1: movie does pass the BACKFLF test, Yes, quite a bit.
Speaker 1: It's mostly Barbarie Ferrara and Haley Leu Richardson talking in
Speaker 1: a car for quite a bit of the movie. Also,
Speaker 1: you've got conversations between mothers and daughters. You've got conversations
Speaker 1: between popular girls. You've got all sort You've got conversations
Speaker 1: between anti abortion fundamentalists and Hayley y Richardson. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got all sorts of conversations taking place that doesn't
Speaker 1: have to do with with men. Uh So, yeah, no
Speaker 1: problem there. However, we are now at our nipple scale
Speaker 1: sero to five nipples based on how the movie fares
Speaker 1: when looking at it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think,
Speaker 1: setting aside that I think there's a lot of, like
Speaker 1: just like screenwriting issues, I would give this, I think
Speaker 1: a three in that it is. It does have an agenda,
Speaker 1: and a progressive agenda that is seeking to humanize getting
Speaker 1: an abortion, and part of the agenda is to make
Speaker 1: having an abortion seem less daunting and scary and just
Speaker 1: the normal medical procedure that it is. I appreciate that
Speaker 1: that is the agenda of the movie. As we've discussed,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of missteps and what it fails to
Speaker 1: acknowledge around the abortion discussion in terms of people of color,
Speaker 1: especially from a lower socioeconomic status. UM people of color
Speaker 1: who live in states where abortion is already difficult to
Speaker 1: access are more likely to have to have an abortion
Speaker 1: because of other factors, not as easy access to health
Speaker 1: care and birth control, not as easy access to education,
Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, and it's it's like they're they're
Speaker 1: are you know, certainly Veronica's character has obstructions to access
Speaker 1: of worship, but she I just think for this story,
Speaker 1: it she's not the prime candidate for leading this story. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And and also it's it's like the movie has more
Speaker 1: than enough room for additional characters and perspectives like they're
Speaker 1: they're just they're you can't include the whole of breck
Speaker 1: and Meyer sequence and then tell me there wasn't time
Speaker 1: for it. There was time, and it was a massive
Speaker 1: oversight in addition to all the ways of this movie
Speaker 1: fumbles with race in general. Right, and if the writers
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I don't know, I just felt out
Speaker 1: of my depth talking about that in the movie, and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, then bring in other people exactly who
Speaker 1: can speak to that more effectively. If George Miller can
Speaker 1: do it, you can do it, right. You haven't heard
Speaker 1: our Mad Max episode comes out next week, because that
Speaker 1: will makes so much sense next with that will make
Speaker 1: so much sense in a week. So Yeah, the failure
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that people of color are very disproportionately affected
Speaker 1: by limited access to abortion. I think is A is
Speaker 1: a major misstep for this movie. The way that characters
Speaker 1: of color are treated, the way the queer relationship pans out,
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just quite a few missteps.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that the kind of emotional relationship core
Speaker 1: of the movie is A is a friendship between two
Speaker 1: girls that shouldn't be a rare thing in film, but um,
Speaker 1: it is. So I appreciate that. I appreciate the lack
Speaker 1: of absolution for the Kevin character. I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: if this movie was made, you know, and even fairly recently,
Speaker 1: that would not be a guaranteed thing. There's definitely things
Speaker 1: that this movie is doing right by it is also
Speaker 1: doing quite a bit either wrong or just completely ignoring
Speaker 1: the glaring reality of right. Yeah, so I think I'll
Speaker 1: go with, like, I don't know, two and a half
Speaker 1: fields a little too low for three. I think I'll
Speaker 1: go three. I'll give one to Barbie Ferrera, I'll give
Speaker 1: one to the actor who plays Peg Gerald Prescott, and
Speaker 1: I will give my third nipple to PEG's reference to
Speaker 1: the human centipede. I did appreciate that well, delivered and
Speaker 1: a rare goodline in this movie. Yeah, I'm also going
Speaker 1: to go with three here for all the reasons described
Speaker 1: there are, particularly on the issue of class and race
Speaker 1: as it pertains to access to abortion. It's like, how, how,
Speaker 1: how how can that not come into the story in
Speaker 1: addition to the people of color that are in the
Speaker 1: movie and how their characters are sidelined. They're just servicing
Speaker 1: the sins white teenager and and and so on and
Speaker 1: so forth. It's just a huge, kind of inconceivably huge
Speaker 1: miss in that regard. And it's the more we talk
Speaker 1: about it, the more I'm like, what the fuck? Um, So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this three nipples. And I think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give him all the Barbie because I wanted to
Speaker 1: have a spare. I just think she's a delight certainly. Well, folks,
Speaker 1: that is our episode on on greg Nant. Yes, so
Speaker 1: no more Greg's and uh and and and good riddance
Speaker 1: uh again. We're gonna be linking to resources on more information,
Speaker 1: will be linking to the Bitch media piece. Will also
Speaker 1: be linking to a Google dog of state by state
Speaker 1: places to donate to individual abortion clinics. We will be
Speaker 1: doing the same, don't you worry. And we'll also post
Speaker 1: these resources to our social media, speaking of which that's
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at bucktele Cast incredible, and that's
Speaker 1: just where you can find us there. Absolutely you can
Speaker 1: also find us on Patreon aka Matreon, where we do
Speaker 1: to bonus episodes every month. Yeah, you also have access
Speaker 1: to the back catalog of all of those over one
Speaker 1: hundred bonus episodes. I'll be goddamned, including uh two movies
Speaker 1: that handle abortion in uh ways that I mean obviously
Speaker 1: I don't know. I had to revisit Obvious Child, but
Speaker 1: certainly a movie that it handles abortion terribly. We covered
Speaker 1: on the Matreon, which is Juno. Uh so they're all
Speaker 1: it's all there, Baby had on, Head on over, come
Speaker 1: on down, and uh you can get our merch at
Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast if you
Speaker 1: are so inclined, and uh, we'll see you next week
Speaker 1: for Caitlin's birthday episode. Bye bye Bye