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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're

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Speaker 2: a weekly reminder that sometimes people do things about the

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Speaker 2: bad things. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and my guest

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Speaker 2: today is Molly Conger.

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Speaker 3: I'm Mollie any Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote down as your bio rather than looking

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Speaker 2: at what your bio is elsewhere. The famed socialist dog

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Speaker 2: mom of Twitter, an investigator of far right extremism, and

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Speaker 2: a city council of ficionado, as well as the reason

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Speaker 2: that I now know I don't know how to spell aficionado.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. That about covers it.

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Speaker 2: Excellent. Well, I'll have to do the rest of the

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Speaker 2: introductions as if other people matter. I mean, Hi, Sophie. Wow,

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Speaker 2: that's the meanest I've ever done that. I'm sorry, I

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Speaker 2: see I feel bad. There's no going back.

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Speaker 3: That's usually much warmer.

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Speaker 1: I demand a compliment.

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Speaker 2: Sophie is great. I'll take it. Sophie has good interior design,

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Speaker 2: but I can't tell you about it. Dear listener.

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Speaker 1: Ah, my plants are doing really, it's really.

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Speaker 2: I was about to mention the plants.

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Speaker 1: We're doing really well right now, really thriving. They feel,

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Speaker 1: they feel alive, and well, which is better than I do.

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Speaker 2: Also, Sophie has helped my skincare game.

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Speaker 3: I'm super excited to be the podcast idiot, which is

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Speaker 3: a title that I bade up for the person who

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Speaker 3: receives the information. It's, you know, it's big shoes to fill.

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Speaker 3: I've looked up to a lot of podcast idiots in

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Speaker 3: the industry and I'm excited to try it.

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Speaker 2: I believe in you.

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Speaker 1: Molly said that in one of our cool Zone meetings

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Speaker 1: and I was like, does anybody want to be the

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Speaker 1: podcast idiot? And I go at cool Zone Media, we

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Speaker 1: call that the Sophie.

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Speaker 3: Well, I know I want. I wanted to hint about

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Speaker 3: the topic, but I did not receive one, so I'm

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Speaker 3: going I'm going in full idiot.

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Speaker 2: We only we only give hints when it's like sketchy

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Speaker 2: enough that we have to be That's what I told him.

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Speaker 2: I was like, if I'm about to talk about someone

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Speaker 2: who's like currently under investigation as like a terrorist, I

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Speaker 2: usually have to be like, hey, uh is this okay?

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Speaker 2: You know, but none of these people are also not

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Speaker 2: currently under investigation for terrorism? Is our audio engineer at

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Speaker 2: danel Hi danel Hi danel We can't move forward until

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Speaker 2: everyone says hid to Daniel unsure.

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Speaker 3: I love Danel. Daniel's giving me a lot of help

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Speaker 3: in my new podcasting journey, so I really appreciate Daniel.

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Speaker 2: He's the best excellent. Our theme music was written for

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Speaker 2: us by unwoman, so I know it was going to

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Speaker 2: have you one. And then I was like, what who

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Speaker 2: do I Who am I going to talk about? And

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Speaker 2: I thought about it and I thought about it and

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Speaker 2: I stare at it my bookshelf, and then I realized,

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Speaker 2: there are these people that have you ever heard of

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Speaker 2: the Provos of Amsterdam? These are not the provos of Ireland.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, the provos of Ireland. Yes, the Provos of Amsterdam.

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Speaker 2: No, entirely different. Etymology came before the Provos of Ireland

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Speaker 2: and not provo utah. I also not provo utah.

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Speaker 3: And not provolone cheese.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm ready, yeah, entirely offer anymology than all of

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Speaker 2: those things. There's a remarkable amount of provo that one

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Speaker 2: could at a lodge. Okay. Have you ever heard of

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Speaker 2: the kabouter?

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Speaker 3: No? Okay, I'm ready to learn.

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Speaker 2: Excellent. What have I told you that? During the late

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Speaker 2: sixties and early seventies, while countercultural movements all over the

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Speaker 2: West were kicking off, right. We've talked about a lot

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Speaker 2: of them on this show. The Dutch had a version.

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Speaker 2: Everywhere had a version of this. The Dutch had a

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Speaker 2: few versions of it, and they had their own unique

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Speaker 2: spin on things. The counterculture of the Netherlands centered around

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Speaker 2: a group of pranksters and Arco pacifists and ANARCO city

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Speaker 2: council members.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: I got really excited to bring you on for this one.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing the system from inside.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about it. I'll be curious your take

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Speaker 2: on this. And they built a thriving and politically engaged counterculture.

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Speaker 2: They brought organic food into the cities. They started the

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Speaker 2: squatting movement in the modern sense that redefined Dutch life

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Speaker 2: for generations and brought a lot of attention to the

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Speaker 2: housing crisis. They demanded human accessible RBIT infrastructure, and they

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Speaker 2: scared the shit out of the monarchy. And they called

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Speaker 2: themselves gnomes. That's adorable because cabuter is a word for gnome.

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Speaker 2: Did they have like the little pointy hats? They didn't

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Speaker 2: wear them, but the ones that they use as their

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Speaker 2: symbol absolutely did. Actually, the pointy hat comes from the

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Speaker 2: Cabouter gnome. It comes from the Dutch gnome. The book Gnome,

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Speaker 2: like the illustrated book that all the western gnome stuff

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Speaker 2: comes from, was originally called Cabalter in the original Dutch.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to choose to believe that all the old

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Speaker 3: people in town who have like a little lawn gnome

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Speaker 3: are sort of secretly signaling their interest in Dutch counterculture.

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Speaker 2: I think that they are, and I think that you

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Speaker 2: can and just expect that they will respond favorably if

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Speaker 2: you act well. Actually, this group of countercultures really nice

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Speaker 2: to old people. That was one of my favorite parts.

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Speaker 2: But we're going to get to that. That's coming. So

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about the Provos and we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about the Caboulters, two distinct groups that are

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Speaker 2: not actually incredibly distinct, but they are at different times.

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Speaker 2: And because it's this show, I might talk about the Netherlands.

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Speaker 2: The Netherlands the first time I decided to move to

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Speaker 2: Netherlands twenty years ago, and my grandfather looked at me

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Speaker 2: with a wink and he said, ah, because of the

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Speaker 2: lady in the picture windows, which was a reference to

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Speaker 2: the famed legalized sex work of the Netherlens where youcy, Grandpa. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was actually the sketchiest thing my Grandpa's ever said

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Speaker 2: the name. My uncle looked at me and made a

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Speaker 2: little like toke gesture, you know, holding his fingers up

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Speaker 2: to his lips, a reference to the decriminalized weed that

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Speaker 2: the country is also famous for. However, my friends knew

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Speaker 2: I was actually moving there the legal squatting that the

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Speaker 2: country was only famous for in pretty much my social circle.

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Speaker 2: But I was a squatter, So the Netherlands was famous

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Speaker 2: to me. Like my friends who had lived there before

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Speaker 2: would come back with these like wild stories about you know,

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Speaker 2: these huge squad actions and fighting back the cops and

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Speaker 2: all the fun crazy stuff. And I was like twenty one,

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Speaker 2: so I was like, this is where I'm going. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever been to the Netherlands, you know much about it?

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Speaker 3: I have not. I've been to Germany, but I didn't

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Speaker 3: get much further than that. That's okay, Honestly, when you

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Speaker 3: said they were fighting back against the monarchy, I forgot

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Speaker 3: they had that. I forgot we were still doing that.

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Speaker 2: So no, that's on my short list of contexts I'm

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Speaker 2: about to I was to say about the Netherlands. The

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Speaker 2: things that are worth knowing about the Netherlands for this story. One,

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Speaker 2: it is the most densely populated country in Europe that

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Speaker 2: isn't like an island or a specific city state, you know,

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Speaker 2: because Europe has a lot of like countries that are

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Speaker 2: a city.

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Speaker 3: Monica back in the city, yeah, like.

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Speaker 2: And Style, Yeah, those are Yeah, those are more densely

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Speaker 2: populated than Netlands. But as far as like normal ass

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Speaker 2: countries go, no offense if you're listening to this in

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Speaker 2: one of those city states. Actually, I think city states

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Speaker 2: are cool.

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Speaker 1: Whatever.

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Speaker 3: It's okay to offend the people of Monaco, Okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's just a casino, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: I know even less of it. You could tell me

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Speaker 2: almost anything about Monaco and I would believe you. Second

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Speaker 2: thing to know about the Netherlands it's a monarchy. Still

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Speaker 2: still still doing that. Yeah. I had this moment once

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Speaker 2: I was I was there ten years ago or something,

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Speaker 2: and I was like hanging out with my friends and

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Speaker 2: I'm like in this square and there's this giant picture

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Speaker 2: of the Queen Beatrix, who's in this story actually, and

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Speaker 2: I like look, and I'm like, God, sometimes I forget

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Speaker 2: that y'all are a monarchy. It's embarrassing. And then my

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Speaker 2: friend's like, yeah, you're a police state and I.

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Speaker 3: Was like, okay, we'll get a ass then, sure right,

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Speaker 3: fair enough, fair enough.

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Speaker 2: So it's a monarchy. It's also a colonial power in

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Speaker 2: it or you know, had a large empire at some point.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of the also ran of the Western European empires.

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Speaker 2: But and then fourth, I lived there for like seven

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Speaker 2: or eight months, and I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 2: trying to learn Dutch and or just pronounced Dutch words,

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Speaker 2: and I was a colossal failure at both. And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to continue my streak here.

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Speaker 3: So no, it just looks like somebody was trying to

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Speaker 3: type in German but they got blackout drunk and someone

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Speaker 3: hit them in the hand with a mallet and all

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Speaker 3: of their fingers are broken.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: But the pronunciation is so much more fun than German,

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Speaker 2: Like German is like everything sounds like I'm gonna murder

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Speaker 2: you and everyone that you've ever met, and everything in

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Speaker 2: Dutch sounds very nice, like yeah, yeah. So the Netherlands

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Speaker 2: has long been a place that prides itself on religious

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Speaker 2: tolerance compared to other places in Europe, a lot of

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Speaker 2: people fleeing persecution while up there, which including like whenever,

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Speaker 2: the Protestants and the Catholics, and I mean it's obviously

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Speaker 2: not perfect, right, but there's it's been a thing for

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Speaker 2: a while, which means that had a lot of Jews

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Speaker 2: lived there. Then the Nazis occupied it in World War

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Speaker 2: Two and the Dutch resistance kicked in, and it was

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Speaker 2: one of the countries it had a very different style

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Speaker 2: of resistance to the occupation than a lot of other countries.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the most resistant countries. We did

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Speaker 2: a whole episode about the gay art movement there that

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Speaker 2: burned the Nazi records and forged ideas and blu shit up.

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Speaker 2: If people want to go listen to the Gay Resistance

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Speaker 2: to Nazis episode.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah.

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Speaker 2: But and over a million people were involved on some

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Speaker 2: level in aiding like Jews escape the Holocaust. However, they

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Speaker 2: were not incredibly remarkably successful at this, despite the large

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Speaker 2: scale of it. One of the reasons for that is

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Speaker 2: that the Dutch resistance movement was less violent than many

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Speaker 2: other resistance movements. This is going to come up. This

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Speaker 2: shapes the culture of what we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: as for why the Dutch resistance culture was less violent.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, it's because the Dutch are all pacifist.

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Speaker 2: Because I'm the people I'm going to talk about today,

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Speaker 2: I fairly pascifist. Right, so far I found when I

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Speaker 2: look up why the Dutch resistance movement was a less

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Speaker 2: violent movement overall. One of the reasons, according to one

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Speaker 2: of the participants, was that the Dutch head of firearms registry,

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Speaker 2: and so when the Nazis took charge, they got the

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Speaker 2: firearms registry and they went door to door and took

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Speaker 2: everyone's guns away.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, Alex Jones was right in the past.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that comes up when I

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Speaker 2: read all of this is that like all of these

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Speaker 2: things that like right wing militias are afraid of here

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Speaker 2: are true for the left and are not true for

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Speaker 2: the right. You know or have been in various places

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Speaker 2: and times, right, Like.

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Speaker 3: The guy you look up to actually did do that

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Speaker 3: thing you're afraid of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, like overall the right wing collapse, Well, there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of Dutch monarchists who have actually fought

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Speaker 2: in the resistance too. Was there was right wing resistance

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Speaker 2: to fascist occupation in some places although overall, but no, whatever,

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Speaker 2: I'm not trying to give too much credit.

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Speaker 3: Resistant Hitler in the name of the King, Like you

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Speaker 3: know you.

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Speaker 2: Got the spirit, yeah, exactly, like you know the right answer. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you have this like kind of you get a little

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Speaker 2: bit of this like patriotic like don't fuck with our Jews,

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know what, it could be as

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Speaker 2: patriotic as you want, as long as the core messages

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Speaker 2: we will shoot the people who are trying to kill

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Speaker 2: the Jewish people. That's fine anyway. The Nazis collectively punished

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Speaker 2: the Dutch people, which I'm sure I have no bearing on.

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Speaker 2: More than a million people were directly involved in supporting

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Speaker 2: this resistance. Right, so, the Nazis cut off food from

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Speaker 2: November nineteen forty four to May nineteen forty five, more

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Speaker 2: than twenty thousand Dutch people starve to death. This is

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Speaker 2: called the Hunger Winter. Victually elderly men starved to death.

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Speaker 2: During this period. Four point five million people were affected

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Speaker 2: by this starvation. They were living off of like six

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Speaker 2: hundred calories a day, which is a third of what

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Speaker 2: you need if you're not doing much. An entire generation

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Speaker 2: of children born or living at the time suffered lifelong ailments,

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Speaker 2: and this is going to be when we talk about

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Speaker 2: these peaceful hippies in this modern consumer culture. This is

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Speaker 2: what they were born from, this is what their childhoods were.

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Speaker 2: Audrey Hepburn grew up in the occupied Netherlands and actually

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Speaker 2: supported the resistance by when she was like a teenager,

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Speaker 2: by performing ballet to raise money to support the resistance,

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Speaker 2: which is fucking cool. Her time in the hunger winter

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Speaker 2: left her with lifelong ailments like anemia. So in case

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Speaker 2: anyone wants to think about what's happening in Palestine right now,

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Speaker 2: I leave the comparison to you about what mass starvation

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Speaker 2: does to an entire generation, including the people who survive.

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Speaker 2: So the war ends, like in most of the West,

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Speaker 2: you've got this very conservative couple of decades after this

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Speaker 2: enormous hardship and poverty. Then you get like consumerism and

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Speaker 2: rising wages of the nineteen fifties, and then you get

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Speaker 2: the sixties. The sixties hit the Netherlands, and that's what

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Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about today. Counterculture, all that stuff. When

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Speaker 2: I first started doing this podcast, I was like, oh God,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna end up having to do all of these

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Speaker 2: different sixties counterculture movements, and I was like kind of

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Speaker 2: like eh, And then the more I read about them,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, no, there's like they're all different, they're

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Speaker 2: all cool, some of them suck whatever, They're all interesting,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: No, but the children of you know, the people who

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Speaker 3: are coming of age in the sixties in the Netherlands

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Speaker 3: had such a different childhood experience than you know, American

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Speaker 3: hippies coming of age after not surviving an occupation.

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Speaker 2: No, totally, And like a lot of the people who

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Speaker 2: are going to be talking about today, a lot of

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Speaker 2: them grew up either hiding Jews in their house, being

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Speaker 2: the Jews who are hidden in house. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of like Jewish orphans who are raised by non Jewish

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Speaker 2: families because for reasons that become clear. No, it is.

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Speaker 2: It's a very interesting thing. But you also compare with

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Speaker 2: like the Netherlands is the colonial core and it is

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Speaker 2: a primarily white country, and so there are some people

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Speaker 2: of color who are coming from basically from the colonies.

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Speaker 3: Right where are the Netherlands called like Southeast Asia, like

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Speaker 3: Sri Lanka, Indonesia.

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Speaker 2: Parts of Southeast Asia, parts of the northeast South America

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Speaker 2: and South South Africa like but like South Africa before

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Speaker 2: the British took it. I'm not actually as I need

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Speaker 2: to learn more about the Boer Wars and all that

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Speaker 2: stuff that happened, because a lot of the origins of

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Speaker 2: modern fascism grow up in South Africa and Rhodesia and shit,

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah.

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Speaker 3: It just keeps coming up. It just won't die.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish it would, like you lost the war,

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Speaker 2: get over? Oh right. I I've lived in the American

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Speaker 2: South anyway because of the fact that the Netherlands colonial core,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of the sixties culture in the US is,

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Speaker 2: especially the radical culture is in relation to the civil

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Speaker 2: rights movement, is in relation to the wild amount of

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Speaker 2: racism and the fact that you know, it is a

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Speaker 2: colonized space, right, And so I actually think that some

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Speaker 2: of the anarcho pacifism, the pacifist part of that that's

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Speaker 2: going to come up. I actually think that that's a

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Speaker 2: relation to the way that power works in their country,

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Speaker 2: as compared to like the United States, where people of

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Speaker 2: color fighting for their rights largely distanced themselves from pacifism

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Speaker 2: by the end of the late sixties, at least in

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Speaker 2: terms of the larger social movements. Anyway, the first subculture

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Speaker 2: in the Netherlands to shatter this post war tranquility was

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Speaker 2: called the Nosom. They were the Dutch greasers, and so

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Speaker 2: it's cool. Was like, half of who we're going to

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Speaker 2: be talking about instead of it's hippies, is greasers.

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Speaker 3: So it's like sharks and jets, yeah basically, but like

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Speaker 3: with no mats.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just imagine everyone in a nomat. No one,

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Speaker 2: no one's actually wear a nomat, but you should imagine

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Speaker 2: them all in no mats. They came in on the

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Speaker 2: scene in the mid fifties fifty nineteen fifty five is

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Speaker 2: when they get their name. They year or two before

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Speaker 2: that they started doing their thing. They wore jeans, and

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Speaker 2: they wore leather jackets, and they listened to rock and

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Speaker 2: roll I think I and they drove around them. They

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Speaker 2: listen to Western pop music and they drove around the

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Speaker 2: mopeds and shit. And their name comes from another cool

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Speaker 2: thing about Dutch history, thieves. Can't you ever played like

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Speaker 2: dungeons and dragons or any of that shit.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm a sore winner and a sore losers. I

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Speaker 3: don't really like games.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, well, see I don't like competitive games, and

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Speaker 2: that's actually why I like tabletop role playing games. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: thieves can't is this other language that thieves use, And

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Speaker 2: generally speaking, the word thieves can't comes from the British

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Speaker 2: version of this. The version of it that's in the

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Speaker 2: Netherlands is called a bahu barhuns, the guttural h that

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Speaker 2: no one. I actually gave up trying to learn Dutch

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Speaker 2: because I would try to learn the difference between these

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Speaker 2: things and no one could understand. There's anyway whatever me.

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Speaker 3: So it's just like crime code.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the language of the criminal underworld, and it

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Speaker 2: it has some like older like late medieval, early modern

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Speaker 2: kind of origins, but it's especially about eighteen fifty to

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifty and kind of the mafia like kind of

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Speaker 2: criminal underworld. But some of uso, the more cool criminal underworld, criminals,

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Speaker 2: vagabonds and traveling salespeople spoke it in the seventeenth century

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Speaker 2: and a lot of it comes from Yiddish, which is cool,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like it's just slowly making its way

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Speaker 2: into cool people bingo and that makes me happy. So

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Speaker 2: the nosem it gets translated as a greaser and it

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Speaker 2: or it gets translated as beatnik. They had another cool name,

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Speaker 2: which they actually had before Nose them. They were the dikers.

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Speaker 2: All right, I'm in I know. Imagine getting to wear

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Speaker 2: a black leather jacket and ride around on a moped

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Speaker 2: with your friends, often multiple people per moped. And because

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Speaker 2: the diker, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, they're known for their dikes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in this case, it's because the dikers

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Speaker 2: hung around some of the areas of Amsterdam with dykes,

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Speaker 2: like new and Dyke. They were like, everyone's like subculture

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Speaker 2: name here is just like whatever part of Amsterdam they

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Speaker 2: hung out in. So it was like instead of sharks

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Speaker 2: and jets, it's like those fucking LDEs of pliners. Actually

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about the light suppliers.

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Speaker 3: It's like Bowery Boys or whatever. You know, it's like

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Speaker 3: whatever part of town.

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Speaker 2: Totally, Oh Bowery Boys is are good. That is the

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Speaker 2: way to Yeah. A journalist gave them the name Nozom

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Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty five and they were like, yeah, fuck it,

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Speaker 2: whatever that sounds cool. Yeah, we're like crime whatever, we

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Speaker 2: don't care. And the ones who hung out in near

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Speaker 2: Lde's applying were the artsy ones, and so they were

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Speaker 2: the Pliners. In nineteen sixty five, an academic noting the

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Speaker 2: provocative behavior of all these youth cultures, started calling them

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Speaker 2: provos and so unlike the provisional IRA, which gets the provos,

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Speaker 2: which gets its name from provisional, in this case they

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Speaker 2: get their name from a provocative and the provos are like, yeah, fuck, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're provos. We're into it, like whatever it was meant

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Speaker 2: as a pejorative, but they didn't care. And this is

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Speaker 2: four years before the provisional IRA. I don't know why

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Speaker 2: I'm so into like mate pointing out that this is

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Speaker 2: the original provos, But here I am.

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Speaker 3: The hipsters of being provos.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. They're completely unrelated, but it makes

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Speaker 2: it hard for me.

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Speaker 3: A different number of rifles.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, very different number of rifles. Yes, they don't have

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Speaker 2: songs like my little ArmaLite. They have songs about like

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Speaker 2: we are cuckoo birds and the owls are up above us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a whole different provo vibe.

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Speaker 2: It is. It is, although if you put the two

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Speaker 2: together and anyway, and there's a couple of these provos

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Speaker 2: who are very important to our story. One of them

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Speaker 2: is named Hoberry Asper Rutfeld and he is not gonna

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Speaker 2: look good to audience for some specific reasons. The Netherlands

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Speaker 2: has had a bunch of colonies, right, and one of

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Speaker 2: those from a good long time ago is South Africa,

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Speaker 2: and so a lot of Dutch people would like go

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Speaker 2: visit South Africa, right. And so when he was a kid,

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Speaker 2: I think Cobert went to South Africa and he got

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Speaker 2: super into it. He became obsessed with African magic.

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Speaker 3: Oh good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was a pliner. He was one of

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00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 2: the artsy weirdos of this growing Provos subculture. He was

398
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Speaker 2: also a total wingnut who was not afraid to do

399
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 2: weird shit. And so we started the big political thing

400
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,159
Speaker 2: at this time. This is before they really got like

401
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 2: politics politics. They were just against consumer culture. They were like,

402
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 2: we don't like this stuff, this consumer culture that we're

403
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: being sold. And he had one primary target. And whenever

404
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,479
Speaker 2: you look up this man, he has referred to as

405
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Speaker 2: a anti smoking activist. That is his single issue.

406
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Speaker 3: He was early on the scene with that one.

407
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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it is really fascinating to me. Smoking is big

408
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 2: corporations and consumerism trying to kill you. He argued. He

409
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: is right, he's against it. I don't disagree. He also

410
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: smoked constantly, so he.

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Speaker 3: Knew what he was up against. You know, he's getting

412
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Speaker 3: to know, getting to know the enemy.

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Speaker 2: He referred to it as being a witness to the darkness.

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Speaker 1: This is like where half of Madmen got their inspiration.

415
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Speaker 1: So they basically did like the entire thing about doing

416
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: ads for the tobacco industry while all chain smoking. And

417
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: then they had like the like the like, uh, don't smoke.

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Speaker 1: People come and they were smoking during the meeting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but no, Now I think that's that's perfect. I'm

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Speaker 3: putting that in my back pocket now, and anytime anyone

421
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Speaker 3: calls me out on my my own personal hypocrisy or

422
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Speaker 3: my vices, I'll say, no, I'm I'm bearing witness to

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Speaker 3: the darkness.

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Speaker 2: There you go, just like we are about to bear

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Speaker 2: witness to our own darkness. And perhaps seventy years from now,

426
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: a historian, we'll say. And then there was cool Zone

427
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 2: media who said they were against capitalism, and yet the

428
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: advertisements like these ones and we're back. And so this

429
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: guy Hobert, he goes around vandalizing cigarette posters with a

430
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Speaker 2: big K, which stands for conquer cancer. And he went

431
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Speaker 2: to jail for a couple months for his graffiti against

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Speaker 2: cancer right, and then when he gets out, he gets

433
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Speaker 2: a rich sponsor for his Oh this is where I

434
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: should have done it. Oh well whatever, he has a

435
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: rich sponsor for his campaign, and so he opens the

436
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 2: anti smoke temple and then his anti smoke temple burns

437
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: down and I think he did it, and I can't

438
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: find more information about that, and it annoys me.

439
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 3: It was He's Reichschnock fire.

440
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: It. Yeah, I almost had you on it. At some point,

441
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to do an episode about how the Reichstag

442
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 2: fire was lit by someone who was very earnestly anti fascist,

443
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: and just to have a conversation about how complicated certain

444
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 2: actions can be. But that's not what we're talking about today.

445
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: So there was starting these culture of happenings, which were

446
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 2: big public events that the artsy greasers, now starting to

447
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: move towards hippies, would just show up at and do

448
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 2: weird shit, and he kind of wound up kicking that off.

449
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 2: He had these anti smoking beans that involved an awful

450
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: lot of him smoking. There's this statue of a little

451
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 2: girl on the spou the it's the name of a

452
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 2: square in Amsterdam. And I used to walk by it

453
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: every day, and one day an older punk anarchist who

454
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: was the first person to tell me about the provos

455
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: and the cabalter. And I'll get to the caboutry later.

456
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: This statue is called the Little Darling, and it is

457
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: meant to represent the playful, indefatigable I don't pronounce that

458
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: word spirit of the Dutch youth. But it was donated

459
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 2: to the city by a tobacco company. So as soon

460
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: as Colbert finds that out, he's like, this is where

461
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: I'm going. This is the center of it all, and

462
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: it's kind of perfect right. It's the like playful, youthful

463
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 2: spirit of the city. And he goes. And that's the

464
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 2: whole point of these movements I'm going to talk about,

465
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: is that they prided themselves on the what's called the

466
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 2: ludic spirit, the playful spirit that they brought into things. However,

467
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: his particular method won't look good. Almost every history of

468
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 2: this leaves a very important part out. I bet you're

469
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: gonna be a figure out which part they leave out.

470
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: Every week, Robert shows up in costume to perform ceremonies

471
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: and rant against the evils of tobacco.

472
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: Cutran love blackface? Was he in blackface?

473
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: He wasn't blackface? You win?

474
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 1: You haven't seen that episode of Atlanta with Donald Glover

475
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: talking about just just watch it, just watch it. Fuck?

476
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: I have. I've seen the first season of Atlanta, but

477
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: I don't remember.

478
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: This was in like one of the later seasons and

479
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: they're they're like they're in Europe and then and then

480
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: they go to Amsterdam.

481
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, I would remember.

482
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: Think they still do their little like Santa's little blackface friend. Yeah,

483
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 3: Christmas parades.

484
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we're talking about.

485
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, nice.

486
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 2: So in Dutch tradition there's center clause Santa Claus, Saint Nicholas.

487
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: He's the patron saint of Amsterdam and of sailors and beggars.

488
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. In Dutch form, Santa Claus has an assistant,

489
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 2: zvart Pete Black Pete.

490
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 3: Little black Peter.

491
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Robert puts on blackface every week and goes

492
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: to rant against consumer culture. He ranted against the asphalt

493
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 2: jungle of refrigerators and electric egg beaters. And we've talked

494
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: some about the Western European traditional blackface and memory on

495
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: this show about how like in different places does and

496
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 2: doesn't have roots and racial stereotypes, but how everyone with

497
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: any kind of conscience has moved away from it because.

498
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 3: I think there is some argument, at least from the Dutch,

499
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: that Schwartzapeter is not in blackface, that he's covered in soot, right,

500
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 3: But he's like, it's chick.

501
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: That's what they've moved to.

502
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 3: That's what they claim. I don't know, yah did real

503
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: history there.

504
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: But he also wears a curly wig and has bright

505
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: red lips.

506
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 3: That's not great.

507
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: The best I've been able to figure out is that overall,

508
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: the Western European tradition of mummery doesn't quite come from

509
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: racial stereotypes but plays into them badly. But zvart Pete

510
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: seems to be coming from racial stereotypes more completely. And

511
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: this is a as you pointed out, there's a big

512
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 2: culture war thing in the Netherlands right now, and so

513
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: people are talking about sooty Pete these days.

514
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: I think, you know, if he's doing the smoking thing,

515
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: you can lean into the soot, but it doesn't sound

516
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: like absolutely doing.

517
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it's like, I don't know what this

518
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: man's thought he was doing. As relates to this, I

519
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 2: don't know whether he's like, oh as Art Pete's totally unrelated,

520
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: but I'm also obsessed with African magic. You know, is

521
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: not looking good. But yeah, so these days more and

522
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: more people do soot splotched face instead and the very

523
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: distinctly not blackface, and that is good. Cobert did this

524
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 2: ceremony every week for a year and it became kind

525
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: of his thing, and people would join in and get entranced.

526
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: Apparently he was like fairly good at doing these like

527
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: kind of wild ceremonies, and the magic kind of worked.

528
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: Other pliners started doing happenings too, and it sort of

529
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: spread throughout the city. There's only a little bit of

530
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 2: politics in any of this, a general we don't like

531
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: consumer society. And then they found a political idea that

532
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 2: spoke to them, anarchism. There were these young anarchists. The

533
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: one who gets named by history is ruvn Dan, who

534
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: edited a bunch of papers like The Free and eventually Provo.

535
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: He and the others were going to these happenings and

536
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: he wrote up a pamphlet and he showed up with

537
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 2: the Weird Ritual with a pamphlet and it read Provo

538
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: feels it must make a choice desperate revolt or cowering defeat.

539
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: Provo encourages rebellion wherever it can. Provo knows it must

540
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 2: ultimately be the loser, but it cannot miss the chance

541
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: to thoroughly provoke this society once more. Provo wants to

542
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: renew anarchism and bring it to the young. And the

543
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: people were like, yeah, cool, we're in. We didn't like

544
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 2: the USSR thing, we don't like the capitalism. This is

545
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: fucking great. How do we talk, like, how do we

546
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 2: merge our weird ass art happenings with your anarchism? And

547
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: so they started a magazine called Provo. It described itself

548
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: as a monthly sheet for anarchist provos, beatnix pliners, scissor grinders, jailbirds,

549
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: simple simon stylites, magicians, pacifists, potato chip chaps, Charlatan's philosophers,

550
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: germ carriers, grand masters of the Queen's horse happeners, vegetarian

551
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 2: syndicalss santi clauses, kindergarten teachers, agitators, pyromaniac's assistant assistants, scratchers

552
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: and syphilitics, secret police and other riff raff. Provo is

553
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: something against capitalism, communism, fascism, bureaucracy, militarism, professionalism, dogmatism, and authoritarianism.

554
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: They've invented several new kinds of guys.

555
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: They have so many kinds of guys. You have so

556
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: many options when you join the provos.

557
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 3: I mean, potato chip chap sounds good.

558
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: I know, I know. Simple Steiman stylites is like a

559
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: Christian mysticism thing that I had to look up. It's

560
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: like a guy who sat on top of a pillar

561
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: because he didn't like talking to people and he wanted

562
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: to live in a sthetic life.

563
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, hermit herban on a big poll.

564
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, herbit pull Hermit cave is.

565
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 3: Better, I think, but stylite works too.

566
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: I clearly would go for a mountain in West Virginia.

567
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: That is where I would actually go to be a hermit.

568
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: I cannot make any other claim that.

569
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: You chose your choice.

570
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly decision.

571
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: It's too late for you to be a scissor grinder.

572
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: I know, although I kind of want to be, but

573
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: that's a unrelated more of a s effect. So anyway,

574
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: so they're tying together weird passivism, Christian mysticism, anarchism in

575
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: the counterculture, the provos. You will be shocked to know

576
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: this was not hierarchical or a membership organization. It was

577
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: an open movement. The magazine had several thousand subscribers and

578
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: supporters who sometimes showed up, and then a core of

579
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,719
Speaker 2: more like one hundred people who were always there at

580
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: the provo happenings. And they were anarchists, but they were

581
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: too anarchists for most of anarchism. They considered the old

582
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: school anarchists, communists and socialists and their class struggle obsession

583
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: as irrelevant at a post war society. Basically, the betrayal

584
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: of the Russian Revolution by the Bolsheviks had thrown off

585
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: the proletarian momentum, as had consumer society and the rise

586
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: of fascism. Quote, the proletariat of the West has submitted

587
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: to its political leadership and TV. It has merged with

588
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: the old bourgeoisie into one large gray rabble of addicted concers.

589
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. They kind of got ar ass there, I know.

590
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: Right, And so they wrote a bunch of really interesting

591
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: I don't read much theory on this show, but they

592
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: wrote a bunch of interesting theory about this. And the

593
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: part that I like for this story is that they

594
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: coined the term provotariat, which is quote, the provotariat is

595
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: characterized by detachment from the manufacturing process through a psychological

596
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 2: protest against manufactured social attitudes. They pushed for the provotariat

597
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 2: of the developed world to join with the hungry proletariat

598
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: of the developing world and have a worldwide revolution. Basically,

599
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: they invented Adbusters about thirty years before Adbusters. I don't

600
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: even know if Adbusters are still around or if it's so.

601
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 3: I mean, he started out, you know, defacing ads, so

602
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: it makes sense. Yeah, he's staying true to his roots. Yeah.

603
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: So they also weren't against participation in municipal electoral politics,

604
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: and this becomes a defining part of their politics. The

605
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: local Marxists hated the provos because the Provos rejected the

606
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: USSR as much as they rejected capitalism. Some things never change.

607
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely no, this is like they were like, the

608
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: anti tanky is brilliant. I just like read this and

609
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, time flat circle, I get it.

610
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: You know, like these guys would have been posting the

611
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: weirdest fucking memes.

612
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely, these absolutely would be mean people. Right now. There

613
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: was this official student union movement, the SVB and it

614
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 2: was like all proper. I think it was Marcus Lennis

615
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Maoist and it was like materialist, and it had doll

616
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: meetings and leaflets, and the SVB called students young intellectual

617
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: workers who deserved a scholarly salary, and the provos instead

618
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 2: went to the students and were like, you know, the

619
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: provo tariot, and the students were like, yeah, that sounds

620
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: way more fun.

621
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: Like your guys are having happenings.

622
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: I know, y'all are fucking too, like because they are

623
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: a weird, you know, crazy counterculture. The provos held the

624
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: only authority that could be respected was the authority built

625
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: on trust. If leaders weren't worthy of the trust of

626
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: those that they led, they should stepped down. So they

627
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: weren't traditional anarchists even at the start, you know, they honestly,

628
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: like I bet you these people would take like one

629
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: look at the Zapatistas and like the Rochavin movement and

630
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: been like that's our fucking jam, you know. But theory

631
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: wasn't really their thing. Their thing was these happenings. And

632
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: their thing was also offering and trying out specific solutions

633
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: to specific problems. Well, and I'll talk about those in

634
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: a minute. They became active in a number of social struggles.

635
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: They became active in the protests against the Vietnam War.

636
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: The Dutch backed the US in that war, but never

637
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: actually sent any troops, and my inference is that the

638
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: large protest movement was part of that decision. They were

639
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: by and large committed pacifists. They were anti militarists, but

640
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: also focused their tactics and strategy around non violently provoking

641
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 2: violent reactions from the state to show the violence inherent

642
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: in the system.

643
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: This had.

644
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 2: It's a dark road, I know. It's also the kind

645
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: of road where I'm like, I mean, I guess people

646
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: have tried in the US, but I'm like, I think

647
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: people know about the violence inheran the system here.

648
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: I mean there. Yeah, there are plenty of protest movements

649
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 3: now in the US whose whole goal is like, look,

650
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: how awful it is that the state is repressing us

651
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 3: like this. It's like, yeah, I know, now I're in jail.

652
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. When it's a surprise because you're like happy Dutch culture,

653
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 2: then it's interesting. I don't know whatever. I'm not trying

654
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: to people who are doing shit. I'm pro people doing shit.

655
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to they tysically.

656
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 3: Send troops to Vietnam, Like what is sort of the

657
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: state of the Netherlands in the sixties, right, like had

658
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: they fully demilitarized after the war? Likel do they at

659
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: what point do their colonies wind down? I should know this, but.

660
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: No, and I only know some of this. I know

661
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: that they lost Indonesia when Japan became the colonial rulers

662
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: of Indonesia in the mid nineteen forties during World War Two,

663
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: and that was like a big one. So a lot

664
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: of the pro votariats grew up in Indonesia, and I

665
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: actually cannot I get the feeling that the author of

666
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: most of the text is a little bit like race

667
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: blind and wouldn't tell me whether or not someone from

668
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: Indonesia was Indonesian or was like a white person who

669
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: lived there in a colonial sense. I get the impression

670
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: both of those things are true. Also, the Dutch absolutely

671
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: had a military, and I think a lot of their

672
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: stuff was against conscription. I ended up like halfway down

673
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 2: a rabbit hole of figuring out exactly when they did

674
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: and didn't have conscription, but it kept changing year to year,

675
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: and so I didn't finish that rabbit hole.

676
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

677
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: I just feel like the Netherlands was completely left out

678
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: of my public school education, So I don't know what

679
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: they were doing.

680
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, I mean, like I thought it was called Holland,

681
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: you know. And the other big thing that they were

682
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: against is the other thing that we had both forgotten

683
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 2: was true about them. They really didn't like the monarchy.

684
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 2: And then Netherlands still has one of those, Princess Beatrix. Later,

685
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: Queen Beatrix got married in nineteen sixty six, and so

686
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: the provos declared that the wedding day would be the

687
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 2: day of anarchy.

688
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 3: Oh hell yes.

689
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. Their goal was to disrupt the royal wedding and

690
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: to draw attention to authoritary government by provoking a reaction

691
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: so that people could see the iron fist within the

692
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: velvet glove. Okay, and it it makes sense when you

693
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: have all this pageantry around, like look, here's our beautiful

694
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: you know, like here's the tradition of monarchy.

695
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 3: So this big royal wedding was sort of in the

696
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 3: early days of things like this being televised internationally, so

697
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 3: this was an opportunity for them to get a lot

698
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 3: of attention.

699
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: Yep. And specifically the fact those television cameras. Yeah, it

700
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: was a big fucking deal. Because also I think that

701
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: overall the Netherlands got TV a little bit later. Like

702
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: I've read about this in a couple other countries. We're

703
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: just like TV is like around and invented, but it

704
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: doesn't really filter out as quickly as it does in

705
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: like the United States. But it's by this point a thing, right,

706
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: And so what they decided to do was mostly they

707
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: spread rumors about what they were going to do rather

708
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: than doing these things. They spread rumors that they were

709
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: going to broadcast the sound of machine gun from speakers

710
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: on the roof of a nearby building. That's really smart,

711
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: I know. And specifically they said this is what we're

712
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: going to do, not not we're going to have machine guns,

713
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: but we are going to make the noise of machine guns,

714
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: you know. They also said you can tell they're getting

715
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: into being hippies. They said they're going to dose the

716
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 2: police horses with acid or just the entire municipal water supply.

717
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: What would LSD do to we all horse That's a

718
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 3: good question.

719
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, it'd be bad. Don't maliciously dose anyone.

720
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: Be hippies. You were wrong about the whole. In the US,

721
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: the East Coast and West Coast drug scene had a

722
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: massive divide about whether or not is if a good

723
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: way to like turn people on to the revolution by

724
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: dosing them without asking them?

725
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 3: Did that too?

726
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah?

727
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: I know, right? And it was the West Coast hippies

728
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 2: who were like, not, it's cool to do that. And

729
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: then it was the East Coast like proto punks, like

730
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 2: this group up against the Wall, motherfucker, who were sort

731
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: of black leather jacket hippies. They were the ones who

732
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: were like, you can't fucking take that choice away from people.

733
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: Fuck you, And I like that. Have you seen the

734
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: Skeletor meme where it's like Skeletor Who's like, let me

735
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: see if I can do this right? Hippies are bad

736
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: people pretending to be good people, and punks are good

737
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 2: people pretending to be bad people. That's how I feel

738
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: about that divide. Is not how I feel about the Netherlands.

739
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: These are good hippies. I'm talking about buy and large.

740
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: But they claim that they're going to do it to

741
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 2: provoke a reaction. But that's so.

742
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 3: Smart as you don't even have to really do anything

743
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 3: because the cops are just thrown into confusion.

744
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 1: Yeah.

745
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I'm sure some.

746
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: Of them reacted as a they've been dosed regardless.

747
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're probably right.

748
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: The first Ventanyl scare, they all died, the company, just

749
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 3: laying in the streets, hyperventilating, tearing off their.

750
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: Clothes, much like, are we sponsored by Ventyl? No? No,

751
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 2: well whatever, we're sponsored by and were back. The other

752
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: thing that they actually did do and that they said

753
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: they were going to do and then did do, is

754
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: throw orange paint bombs and like smoke bombs and shit.

755
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: It's the color of their monarchy, right, yes, exactly. The

756
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 2: ruling dynasty is the house of Orange Nassau. Oh and

757
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 2: what they ended up having was kind of a classic

758
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six protest. Lots of people showed up and

759
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: cops beat everyone up. Smoke bombs obscured the royal carriage

760
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 2: from being seen by the TVs, and so they absolutely

761
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 2: fucked up the royal wedding as a media spectacle as

762
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: a result of I think this action, I think got it.

763
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: Both the mayor and the chief of police end up

764
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: stepping down and that was.

765
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: Like, that's an international humiliation. Yeah, couldn't control your hippies.

766
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so when it was just good old fashioned

767
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 2: racist happenings at the spou, the cops let people do things.

768
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: But now that they're the Provos, the cops come and

769
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 2: fuck that up. And so every week the Provos show

770
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,720
Speaker 2: up and have these happenings, and every week the cops

771
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,479
Speaker 2: come and fuck with it. And this starts polarizing Dutch

772
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 2: society pretty hard. It wins over a huge chunk of

773
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: people towards their cause, but thirty seven percent of the

774
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: Dutch population believe the Provos belonged in prison. Yeah. There

775
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 2: was also this working class youth gang tension here we

776
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 2: get in the real sharks versus jets between the Provos

777
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,479
Speaker 2: and this group called the CS the Central Station youth

778
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 2: who are more like I would use this word googles,

779
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: but no one knows what I mean. And I say

780
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: that they were like the street kids. They were like

781
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: runaways and little Dutch crrousspunks. Yeah, they were the proto

782
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: Dutch crusspunks. And they hung out at Central Station and

783
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: occasionally the Provos and the CS kids would fight, occasionally

784
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: they would make alliances. At one point, the CS kids

785
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: burned down the provo's houseboat. But in proper Hollywood fashion,

786
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: the two groups joined up together when they had a

787
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: common enemy. And this is where I would put this

788
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: would be an important scene in the movie if I

789
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: were making this. There was a right wing youth culture

790
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: called the military, like the actual military, the actual military.

791
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: H okay, yea yea yeah, yeah. I was to say,

792
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: is that like like a cool right wing street gang

793
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 3: they just called themselves. No, it's like the actual moment.

794
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: No, yeah, like, yeah, they actually have some courage, unlike

795
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 2: the right wing in the United States that needs to

796
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 2: just pretend like they're in a military. Anyway. So these sailors,

797
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: these they were called the yanchas, the little Yawns. They

798
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: wanted to rid Central Station of the long haired workshy scum.

799
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: That was like the words that they would us. It's

800
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: like long hair. There was like magazines and shit like

801
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: fight for your right to have a long hair as

802
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 2: a boy and like and they were workshy, which is true,

803
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: fuck work whatever.

804
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: They weren't.

805
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: They weren't shy about it.

806
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. They were willing to throw it out about it. Actually,

807
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: So a crew of one hundred marines and sailors maybe

808
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: it actually just sailors and it's just a way that

809
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: got translated. They try to drive the CS kids out

810
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: of Central Station, and the provos show up and they

811
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: all threw down together and they drive the military guys out.

812
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: So these anarcho pacifists who won't fight cops but are like, well,

813
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: we're gonna fight these fucking right wing people who are

814
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 2: beating up our friends, only we can pick on the

815
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: little kid gang exactly. We'll fight them, not you. This

816
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: did not recruit the CS kids to like join the movement,

817
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: but it's still fucking cool. And so they them being

818
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: active in the streets was cool. But it's like that's

819
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 2: kind of par for the course for being a sixties

820
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 2: you know, primarily youth movement. Right. What really makes them

821
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 2: stand out are their proposals and actions for a better world.

822
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 2: They called them their White Plans. They picked white because

823
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: it's a symbol of pacifism. Okay, once again, I'm going

824
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 2: to say a bunch of names of plans that don't

825
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: translate well into English.

826
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 3: So it just doesn't have a great flavor in English.

827
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 3: But I get it, I get it.

828
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, especially once we started talking about the white

829
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: children and the white women, it's going to go it's

830
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: going to look bad. I've read the claim that they

831
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 2: basically created the modern environmental movement. That is not really true,

832
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: but certainly in the Netherlands they were among the first

833
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 2: to openly talk about and take seriously the idea of pollution,

834
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 2: and they were a heavy part of invigorating an environmental

835
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: movement world in the West, the actual roots of the

836
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: modern environmental movement are more nebulous and a little bit

837
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 2: less Western.

838
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 3: Well, I guess one sea level rise was a concept

839
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 3: people understood. It was very fucking real for the Netherlands. Yeah, totally,

840
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 3: They're not going to be there anymore.

841
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've read some at least one. Whenever you read

842
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: like a climate fiction book, that's like at a macro level,

843
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: it's like and then the Netherlands has to figure out

844
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 2: how to you know, because right, oh yeah, I forgot

845
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 2: to say, context wise, most of the Netherlands is below

846
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 2: sea level.

847
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 3: It's the Miami of Europe.

848
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so one of their core arguments of the provos,

849
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: and one of their big things they're fighting for forever

850
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 2: is they want a car free downtown Amsterdam. They're like

851
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 2: bikes and people, yes, cars No. Their most famous innovation

852
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: out of this is the white bicycle program. They declared

853
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 2: that the city should close to cars and that twenty

854
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: thousand white bicycles should be left around the city for

855
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: anyone to use, ride it for a while, then leave

856
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 2: it where you're done when you're done, for the next

857
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: person to use. Decades later, the all devouring maw of

858
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: capitalism has taken this idea and sold it back to

859
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,959
Speaker 2: people as the city bike and scooter plans and even

860
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: like rideshare cars actually come directly like you can trace

861
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 2: the lineage from the anarcho pacifist Christianness Christmas.

862
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 3: They made it so ugly, they made it so early.

863
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,439
Speaker 2: What have they done to my boy?

864
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 3: They ma sacred me boy?

865
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, okay, Yeah, So the provos are credit

866
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: as the originator is the modern bike and car share system.

867
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: But it was supposed to be free, and they started

868
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: the program by just doing it, just putting a bike out. Yeah,

869
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 2: they just gathered in public and painted bikes white and

870
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: then passed out leaflets explaining the whole concept. The leaflet

871
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: red and classic provo form daily sacrifices are made for

872
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: that newest authority that the crowd have submitted themselves to

873
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: the car equals authority. Suffocating carbon monoxide is its incense,

874
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: Its image has ruined thousandfold streets and canals.

875
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 3: God, I feel like you could do this right now. Absolutely,

876
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: this it feels so it feels very modern.

877
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I kept running across over and over again with

878
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: these folks that I'm like, Oh, they're ahead of their time.

879
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: I mean, if they hadn't been ahead of their time,

880
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: if they just succeeded, we'd be in a much better

881
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: situation in the end. Almost every version I've read, when

882
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: people talk about the White Bikes program, they're like, oh,

883
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: like they kind of just got stolen or thrown in

884
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: the canal, you know, like, ah, tragedy of the commons.

885
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 3: Right, cops stole most of the white bikes, shocking. It

886
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 3: was illegal to leave bikes unlocked in the Netherlands at

887
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 3: that point. And if this isn't the most cop brain

888
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 3: shit in the world, I'd better steal your bike so

889
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: that you don't leave it around for someone to steal.

890
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 3: They're preventing crime by doing it themselves. Exactly why they

891
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 3: do most of the drug trafficking, Yeah.

892
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: Exactly, except that one drug that if they get anywhere

893
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: near sponsor of the Why am I being an edgeler today?

894
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: All right?

895
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, the founder of this plan is this guy named

896
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 2: lud Schimmelpennok, and he's from a lefty Catholic family. In

897
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: the end, like a lot of the provos and later cabouters,

898
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: he stayed involved in local government after all of this

899
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 2: stuff is over, and basically still I think he's alive,

900
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: spends his days trying to alleviate traffic problems. In the Netherlands,

901
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 2: the bikes weren't the only solution to the car problem.

902
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 2: They had another program, the name of which does not translate. Well,

903
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: it's called the white body program. Okay again, you know whatever. Anyway,

904
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: anyone who's killed by a car, their outline would be

905
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 2: chalked onto the street and then the silhouette would be

906
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 2: carved out and forever filled with white mortar.

907
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 3: Is this I mean, maybe this has like an entirely

908
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 3: separate origin. But in the US, when a cyclist is

909
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,919
Speaker 3: killed by a car, they lead like a ghost bike.

910
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 3: Are these things related?

911
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: Yep?

912
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 3: Fascinating.

913
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: I spent a while down that particular rabbit hole. That program,

914
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: the ghost bike program, started in two thousand and three

915
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 2: in Saint Louis and I am not the only one

916
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: who has traced its history back to the Provos.

917
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 3: Fascinating.

918
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that same bike culture of like early two

919
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 2: thousand and three, like counterculture, was very aware of the

920
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 2: White Bike Program. I heard about the White Bike program

921
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: many more, way more often than I ever heard about

922
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: the Provos themselves. They also fought for this thing that

923
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: happens now in urban development. They fought for play streets,

924
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 2: the idea of just taking streets and turning them into

925
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 2: permanent public space the way that they conceive it of them.

926
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 2: They would have like free machines, like I think it's

927
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: like washing machines and shit, as well as phones and

928
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 2: such for anyone who didn't have things at such things

929
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 2: at home, like the phone, would have like a really

930
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: really long extension cord, you know, so that you could

931
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: like come out to the street, grab the phone. If

932
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 2: you need to go talk, you go talk, and then

933
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,399
Speaker 2: bring it back, you know, so that anyone who doesn't

934
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: have these things at home can use it. By the

935
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: late sixties, the government actually started this is one of

936
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: the ones they kind of won, and the government started

937
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: kind of working with them and allowing this to happen.

938
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 2: In more places, and I still know anarchists who are

939
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: involved in making this kind of thing happen. Today. A

940
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: friend of mine got a play street under that name,

941
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: a playstreet for her neighborhood in Queens.

942
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 3: Oh, it's incredible. So they closed the street off to

943
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 3: cars and.

944
00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: Now it's a public space.

945
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 3: Beautiful. There was a little bit of movement on that

946
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 3: I think during the pandemic, right like where they were

947
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 3: moving like cafe space and what used to be a

948
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 3: street for cars. But I don't think it really stuck anywhere.

949
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: In the US. Yeah, I feel like I still see

950
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: that sometimes in cities, but I don't know. I don't

951
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: go into cities enough to really be sure. I like them,

952
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: I'm not anti them. Okay. One of my favorite programs

953
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: of THEIRS, this one did not take off. It's called

954
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: their White Chicken Plan. Chicken is slang for cop. It's

955
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: like comparable to pigs. When I was there, we mostly

956
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 2: called them klotzac, which means ball sack, but at the

957
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: time it was chicken the first Dutch words I learned.

958
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: So the White Chicken program basically cops, instead of driving

959
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 2: around locking people up, should bicycle around with pockets full

960
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: of sandwiches and fruit to give out to the needy.

961
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: So true. Yeah, and I would just argue this didn't

962
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: take off. I've read a more moderate slash progressive position

963
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: that this actually did have a fairly large influence on

964
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: the way that policing was conceived of in the Netherlands

965
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 2: as cops as social workers. But it didn't stop cops

966
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: from going around doing bad stuff. So I feel like

967
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 2: in some ways that's the problem with most attempts to

968
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: reform the police.

969
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, it would be nice if you

970
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: just made a separate group of guys who did that,

971
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 3: rather than trying to get the cops to do something,

972
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: because that's just confusing for them. Like I wouldn't take

973
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 3: a snack from a cop.

974
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: You know, rewires their brain. And Yeah. Then they had

975
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: their white chimney plan, which was to paint all of

976
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: the chimneys of major polluters white so everyone knew what

977
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: they were doing to the world, like a name and

978
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 2: shame kind of thing.

979
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 3: I'm with that.

980
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I I like basically all their plans, like,

981
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: not all of them are perfect. They were anti monogamy,

982
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 2: but I don't believe they had a white orgy plan. Fortunately,

983
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,479
Speaker 2: on feminism. They were pretty nineteen sixties about it, which

984
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: is to say they were active engage in the fight

985
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 2: for women's rights all the while doing a sexism. One

986
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 2: of their things was the promotion of the provo sexual,

987
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 2: which was basically that hot provo ladies should seduce people

988
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 2: into their movement and or just like seduce bad people

989
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: to like like go seduce the cops.

990
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 3: Not not fuxcating, but like they're doing like flirty fishing

991
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 3: for anarchism.

992
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, if people decided that's what they want to do,

993
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: I have no problem inherently with that. You know. Then

994
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: you get into the ones that really don't translate. Well,

995
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: I'll just whatever made my point. They had the White

996
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: Women Plan. One provo Irene Vonden went Vittering wrote up

997
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: a white plan for providing sex and contraceptive education for

998
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 2: women and girls. White plan is the name of these plans, right,

999
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 2: they'd write it up, and so basically it was like sex,

1000
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: adding contraception, contraceptive education for women and girls. That's what

1001
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: we need. And then they had their White Children Plan,

1002
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 2: which was collective nurseries and education along anners lines. Five

1003
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 2: couples with children would pool child bearing and babysitting duties.

1004
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 2: So basically like every parent of the ten parents would

1005
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 2: take a week looking after all the kids in the

1006
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,919
Speaker 2: nursery so that everyone had more time to do things

1007
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: besides just raising kids. But the kids always had an

1008
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: attentive caregiver. Very it takes a village to raise a child,

1009
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: and it was cool. It only works if none of

1010
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 2: the ten parents have a regular job, and they they

1011
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 2: hoped that neighbors would like send their kids to go

1012
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 2: and get looked after by the anarchist nurseries, and the

1013
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: neighbors weren't doing it. They were on the cutting edge

1014
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: of abolition of the family. Yeah, they had a white

1015
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: house plan, which was that empty homes should be refurnished

1016
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: for housing, and offices in city center should be turned

1017
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 2: into housing. No houses should be demolished until everyone is housed.

1018
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: So they would always have their like this is what

1019
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 2: society should do. And then here's like, well, we're going

1020
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: to do directly, you know. And what they did directly

1021
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: was kind of start the squatter movement. They broke into

1022
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: empty buildings and fixed them up with plumbing and electrical

1023
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: so that families could move in and live for free.

1024
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: There was this very major housing crisis for decades in

1025
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 2: the Netherlands following the war, and this was one of

1026
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 2: their ways of addressing that directly.

1027
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 3: Was it was there a lot of like physical destruction

1028
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 3: in the Netherlands during the war, Like did they lose

1029
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 3: a lot of housing stock to war damage?

1030
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 2: I you know, it's funny and if people want to

1031
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: know more about it beyond what my memory can summon up.

1032
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 2: I did an episode about the No No No about

1033
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,959
Speaker 2: the Dutch squatting movement with with actually a Dutch squad

1034
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 2: wh runs a podcast they can go back and listen to.

1035
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 2: I know that some cities like Rotterdam were completely leveled

1036
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: and rebuilt after the war. I believe Amsterdam was not

1037
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: damaged as badly. And I think that again, think that

1038
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 2: the housing shortage was more caused by housing speculation.

1039
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: Okay, did they have their own post war baby boom,

1040
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,240
Speaker 3: but it wasn't by like I don't know, in America

1041
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 3: we invented the suburbs at this point.

1042
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in this case, it's like houses that were

1043
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: empty when the economy is bad, it's like cheaper to

1044
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 2: not let them out to anyone to rent and just

1045
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 2: like hold on to them and wait for the economy

1046
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: to get better, and they're also doing a lot of

1047
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 2: like urban development, like the Amsterdam developed as a city

1048
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: that was had a residential core and then it became

1049
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 2: more of a commercial core. But then there's like people

1050
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: who are trying to live there, and then there's not

1051
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 2: enough housing.

1052
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 3: So they fixed that.

1053
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually I mean to the point where eventually

1054
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: the Netherlands legalized squatting because even the government had to

1055
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 2: admit it was a social good. Until I think it

1056
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 2: was twenty eleven, when capitalism succeeded it.

1057
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 3: There was a lot of like empty commercial real estate

1058
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 3: in someone else's country.

1059
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would never tell any I would actively tell

1060
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 2: people that squatting is a very good social thing to do.

1061
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 2: And if you do it in a if you build

1062
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 2: it up as a movement, you can defend each other

1063
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 2: and you can do things like not have squatting be

1064
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: a way of expecting people to live in squalor, but

1065
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: instead live very well. I lived in a squatted I

1066
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 2: lived in a squatted mansion owned by a mafia boss.

1067
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 2: That's beautiful because if you're if you leave a building.

1068
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: For when squatting was legal in the Netherlands, if the

1069
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 2: building was empty for a year, and you didn't have

1070
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: proof that you were in the process of renovating into

1071
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: some purpose. People could legally break in and live there

1072
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 2: and so peop So this this mafia dude was in jail,

1073
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: so he wasn't doing anything with his fucking mansion. It

1074
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: was a row home, but it was this mansion of

1075
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 2: a house right in downtown. So squatters moved in and

1076
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 2: lived there, and every now and then mafia guys would

1077
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: come and be like, hey, you should really move out

1078
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 2: of here. But like the squatters in the Netherlands were like, no,

1079
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 2: we're good, fucking bring it because they're fucking tough ast

1080
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: shit and they were not pacifist. But time I was there, anyway,

1081
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 2: that's beside the point. The pacifist they called what they

1082
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: were doing the gentle revolution or sweet revolution or smart evolution,

1083
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: and it was pretty fucking cool. They got into some

1084
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 2: trouble at the very beginning. The first issue of Provo

1085
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 2: had been made by all these like very I come

1086
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: from anarchy specifically, so it had like obsolete bomb recipes

1087
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 2: from nineteen ten in the first issue, and it got

1088
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: confiscated and they would get arrested for all kinds of shit, though,

1089
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 2: and I feel like these show the character of the movement.

1090
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: The one woman Coast Shook Coaster was arrested for giving

1091
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: out dried currents while preaching charity, which I believe is

1092
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: a specific Bible reference that I is above my head.

1093
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 2: Another guy, Hans Tunman, he got himself sentenced to a

1094
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 2: few months in prison from muttering imagine over and over again.

1095
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 2: And I can't figure out how. I don't know what happened.

1096
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, and I'm so annoyed. Maybe he like

1097
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 2: went up to cops and just came saying it over.

1098
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 3: I don't know, and maybe he was being menacing about it.

1099
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. He wrote a book about his time in jail, which,

1100
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: if I had more time in my life and I

1101
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 2: had found a translation of Full Time Provo, the book

1102
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: he wrote in jail, than I probably would have been

1103
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: able to figure out what he was arrested for. It

1104
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 2: sold well enough that it bought him a riverboat. I

1105
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 2: believe this is the one that the CS kids burned down.

1106
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 3: Well, not his jail memoir riverboat.

1107
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: I know, but I think they had a bunch of

1108
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: riverboats by the end, so I'm not sure they believed

1109
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: in municipal autonomy. They believe that city decision making should

1110
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 2: be done at the lowest possible level with neighborhood councils

1111
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 2: and then a larger municipal council only as like the

1112
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 2: way that government happens in society. And so since they

1113
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: believed in neighborhood in municipal councils, these anarchists started running

1114
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: for city government. This took ideological reconciling, but not a

1115
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 2: ton as they put it, they were ideologically they were

1116
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 2: not ideologically committed. They were ideologically inspired, which like I'm

1117
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 2: not saying one way or the other about what tactics

1118
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 2: makes sense, but that has a better way to look

1119
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 2: at ideology. Their campaign motto was vote provo, have fun, yeah, yeah,

1120
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 2: sure and sweet yeah. They put together a slate of

1121
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: twelve candidates, and the night before the election, Provo twelve

1122
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 2: was painted all over the city. They got thirteen thousand votes,

1123
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: which was enough to put one of their candidates onto

1124
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: the Amsterdam Municipal Council, the bigger city council. It was

1125
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: way less than they'd hoped. When you live in a

1126
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: bubble and everyone you know support to you think everyone

1127
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: else does two but the voting age at the time.

1128
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: According to the history book I read, the voting age

1129
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 2: was twenty three, but according to every internet source I found,

1130
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 2: the voting age was twenty one. The voting age was

1131
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 2: not eighteen at the time, and that's a pretty good turnout.

1132
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 3: None of those child gangs could even vote for them, exactly.

1133
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 2: Entering politics wound up divisive. The one guy they elected

1134
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 2: started getting shipped from his friends who were mad at

1135
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 2: him for like getting too big for his breeches. And

1136
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 2: meanwhile everyone else in the council just opposed him at

1137
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: every turn. This, this poor fucking guy just catching it from

1138
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 2: all sides. Yeah, he leaves after a few months, but

1139
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 2: the seats are not by candidate, the seats are by party.

1140
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 3: So they can just fill his seat.

1141
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: So another provo steps in, and then a third, and

1142
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: then a fourth, and people started complaining about the divide

1143
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: between street provos and intellectual provos. Meanwhile, provos spread across

1144
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 2: Western Europe, mostly to various Dutch cities, but also to Belgium,

1145
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 2: West Germany and Sweden. In November nineteen sixty six, they

1146
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: held an international provo festival. Beforehand, they did a mass

1147
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 2: washing of each other's feet in a reference to basically

1148
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: like Christ the anarchist socialist. There's a Super Bowl ad

1149
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: about this shit. So they are very Christian in their foundation.

1150
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 2: They are clearly influenced by Christian theology and let in

1151
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: Christian pacifism. One of the problems that I run across

1152
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 2: again and again in history is that when people write

1153
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 2: histories of leftist movements, they are atheists who write these histories,

1154
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 2: And I have a hard time finding the way what

1155
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 2: religion meant to the participants, because that's such an interesting

1156
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: movements question, right that, you know, because like you were saying,

1157
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 2: these these sort of political movements are often sort of

1158
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: removed from that context.

1159
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 3: But it sounds like these people were, i mean, I

1160
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 3: don't know their own words, like very inspired by the

1161
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: actual advice that Christ gave them. Right that they were

1162
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 3: absolutely making sure that everyone had a home and was

1163
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 3: fed and was cared for. And yes, you know, the

1164
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: least among us.

1165
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: I absolutely believe that meant a lot to at least

1166
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 2: many of them, if not most of them.

1167
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 3: I mean, you're not washing feet for for shits and giggles,

1168
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 3: that's not a.

1169
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 2: Bit, that's no, this is like we are an arco Christians.

1170
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: That is what they're That is what they're signifying, or

1171
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 2: at least a lot of them are Jews, right, but

1172
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 2: like they are like specifically being like this is not

1173
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 2: a materialist an atheist movement. There's actually in the later one,

1174
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: there's going to be this thing where the atheists like

1175
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: kind of like bargin with Fedoras and are like Reddit

1176
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 2: told me that you're not allowed to believe in God,

1177
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 2: and they basically like got run out, and like I

1178
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: find it so fascinating. There are these two big alternative

1179
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 2: magazines for youth culture at the time. One's called hit

1180
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: Week and one's called a Loha, and they both promote

1181
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: long hair. These are the magazines that are like advice

1182
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 2: about how to make your teachers let you have long

1183
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: hair and stuff, you know, and they're all about sex

1184
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: education and they're all about anarchism. The provos are writing

1185
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: these popular magazines by the end, including that anarchist on

1186
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 2: city council. He's writing articles about anarchism and also what's

1187
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 2: going on in local government from his position in the

1188
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: council that is now in the magazine is like all

1189
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: the rocks. Yeah, and this culture is spreading too. And

1190
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 2: then they all quit. Teenth of May nineteen sixty seven,

1191
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 2: they publicly announced the abolition of Provo. After two years

1192
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 2: of being Provos. They decided that it had lost its character, spontaneity,

1193
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 2: it was gaining public support, and its ideas continued to

1194
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 2: influence everything in Dutch culture. At this point, there's clergymen,

1195
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: artists and some politicians. We're speaking about the wonders of

1196
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: the provos, but there's also like a tourist bus that

1197
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 2: will drive people to see and argue with the real provos.

1198
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 2: And it had become too predictable and it had lost

1199
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 2: its spirit. So they abolished themselves. They still had a

1200
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: city council seat and so they continued to fill that

1201
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 2: and continue to do that work. But once they were abolished,

1202
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: they kept going.

1203
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 3: Of course they didn't.

1204
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 2: And then they became nomes. And we're going to talk

1205
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: about them as gnomes on Wednesday.

1206
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 3: Oh, I can't wait to hear about the gnomes.

1207
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: I know, this is one of my Usually the cliffhangers,

1208
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 2: like and then they're literally hanging from a cliff and

1209
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 2: the bombs about to go off or whatever. The fun

1210
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: but I'm pretty excited about And then they all turned

1211
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 2: into nomes. But Before we get to that, we should

1212
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 2: talk about you, and we should talk about the stuff

1213
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 2: that you do. Is there any new podcasts that people

1214
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: can hear you on or is there any other work

1215
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 2: you want to draw attention to.

1216
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess this is coming out soon, right, so

1217
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 3: I'm having that two weeks from now, a brief stint.

1218
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm guest hosting on It could happen here,

1219
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 3: so about once a week. You can check me out

1220
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 3: over there. You can always find me on Twitter at

1221
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: socialist dog Mom. We don't have any anarchist city council members,

1222
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 3: but I do cover our city council. Ill that's it

1223
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 3: for me.

1224
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I want to plug that. Cool Zone Media

1225
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 2: has a new podcast and hold on. It's called Better Offline.

1226
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 2: I spent like two hours listening to it today. I

1227
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 2: should know the name of it. It's good. It's a

1228
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 2: tech podcast. But it's a tech podcast that's called better Offline,

1229
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 2: which helps you understand where it's coming from. Sophie, what

1230
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 2: do you got to plug?

1231
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: Uh? Cool Zone Media on the social medies? Oh yeah,

1232
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: if you have a pet pet it.

1233
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not that many nouns where the verb. Actually

1234
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 2: there's probably a lot never mind, see you Wednesday.

1235
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: Hey cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production

1236
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1237
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1238
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1239
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: your podcasts.