WEBVTT - Using Tech to Improve Access to Covid-19 Clinical Trials 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.280 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.200 we're bringing you the latest news from the worlds of 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.920 business and finance, plus technology, politics. So much going on 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.160 in the world of politics, economics, and it's all harnessing 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.000 the power of Business Week reporters and editors. You can 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:18.720 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.000 If you can also listen to our radio show at 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:23.720 two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, and be sure to 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.280 watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.280 We know infection rates are accelerating in the Southwest and 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.400 the Rocky Mountain West. After sweeping through states in the Midwest, 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.159 we talked about a growing number of hospitals canceling or 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.519 delaying some planned medical procedures to preserve staff and beds. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.760 The death toll in US nursing homes and long term 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.440 care facilities topping one hundred thousand, and meantime, you've got 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.000 US airline traffic rising as some Americans traveled for Thanksgiving 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:54.680 despite tons and tons of warnings from American health officials. 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.200 Cases right now passing fifty nine eight million deaths topping 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.560 one point four million. So let's talk about the virus 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.920 our daily check today with Dr Michelle Longmire, CEO at Metable. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.160 It's a platform connecting patient sites and clinical trial teams, 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.880 and she joins us on the phone in Palo Alto. 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.440 Dr Longmyer, so nice to have you here with us. 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:16.920 First of all, um, tell us a little bit about 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:18.959 what you're seeing on the ground there at there on 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.680 the West coast. Sure, well, thank you so much for 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.600 having me today. You know, I think everyone is talking 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.760 about the risk mitigation strategies that are really needed for 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.920 the holiday. Um. Of course, everyone loves Thanksgiving. It's really 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.160 a quintessential family holiday in the United States, and unfortunately 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.120 this year, you know, the best thing to do is 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.760 to really you know, take the safety measures into consideration. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.960 And unfortunately this means really not spending time um with 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.720 family in person, you know, if they haven't been within 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.080 the same quarantine group. So I think that's really friend 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.040 of mine for people in California, and we're just thinking 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.480 about how we can look forward, you know, to a 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.200 vaccine into an area and era where we can be 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.800 back with our family and friends. But certainly people are 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.560 thinking about polity, but with safety and mind yeah, No, absolutely, 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:14.760 And I know that your specialty is um autoimmune skin diseases, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.640 but I do want to um before we get into 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:18.000 the kind of work you guys are doing at your 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:22.040 firm um and your company that specifically, when you see 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:27.160 the rising numbers of people who are traveling airline traffic, 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.280 does that say to you that in a couple of 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:33.640 weeks we probably are going to look back at Thanksgiving 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.520 as another super spreader event. I mean, you know, the 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.840 data is the data, and it's we know that the 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.640 social distancing, and we know that the masks and we 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.560 know that, you know, the isolation measures are critical, and 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:53.040 you know this is a very contagious illness, and you 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.480 know the probabilities are what they are, and if you 0:02:55.560 --> 0:03:00.120 defy those by crowded airplanes and you know public like 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.440 you know, public gatherings, we do see that the disease spreads. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.040 So you know, it would be it would be very 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.280 you know, it would be unlikely that we won't see 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.440 that following the holiday because you know, people, if they 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.600 are not heeding the warnings, we're going to see you know, 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.480 much greater numbers and the spread is going to be there. 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.960 So certainly I think that's why everyone's preparing for that 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.400 because we're observing that there. You know, people are still traveling, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.880 and the airplanes are certainly an area where we know 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.079 that there is you know, contagent risk. Right, it's the 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.760 antithesis of everything that everybody says. Right, it's closed, it's 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:37.119 lots of people. It's not an ideal situation. So talk 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.640 to us, Talk to us a little bit about the 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.720 work you guys are doing it medable, Um, you guys 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.840 are a platform. You bring together patient sites and clinical 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.440 trial teams. I have members of my family that are 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.360 in the medical community, so I understand this, this whole idea, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.080 especially when they are UM. You know, therapies out there, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.640 you know, finding people who might be good for a trial, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.720 which just helps and kind of get learning to know 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.920 more about a treatment. But tell me about what you 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.760 guys are doing, specifically when it comes to COVID nineteen. Sure, 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.600 so you know, clinical trials are a critical component of 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.280 developing new medications, and I think it was an area 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.800 of people didn't really think about prior to COVID, but 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.240 then once COVID hit. You know, the roles of clinical 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.359 trials for vaccine and therapy development became something that the 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.000 broader public was aware of, and you know, you look 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.520 at the news coming out of Fiser and Maderna. Let's 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.960 take Fiser for example. You know, we've had over forty 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.760 thou volunteers into the Fiser vaccine study, and these are 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.320 people who you know, want to be a part of 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.080 the research efforts, who also are eager to get the vaccination, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.080 and they've played a foundational role in us, you know, 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.920 getting through this pandemic. You know, I think our role 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.840 medical in this is to tackle some of the biggest 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.480 challenges facing clinical trials, and one of the biggest challenges 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:54.080 is access. You know, the pandemic his results in enclosures 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.400 of many of you know, the general kind of day 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.440 to day health care facilities, right, we don't want people 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.560 going in there because we don't want to spread the disease. 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.599 And clinical trials in a traditional sense are no different 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.800 than as you go to your doctor. What metaval pioneering 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.280 is really a way to access the clinical trial and 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.880 the convenience of your own home, and this has become 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.920 extremely important in the setting of the pandemic and has 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.240 become extremely important in these large vaccine trials. You know, 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.039 where we need the participation. People are eager to be 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.400 a part of research, and we need to bring that 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.840 into the comfort of their own home, you know, through 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.920 the various aspects of the clinical trial. So we've seen 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.359 a big shift from clinic based healthcare delivery and clinical 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.200 trial delivery to much more of a remote, digital and 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.440 connected ecosystem. And our company has really been at the 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.440 forefront of that transition and transformation where high tech world 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.320 dr Longmeyer. But still, of course technology doesn't always it 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.200 fails us occasionally, I asked um alright, put out the 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.279 question of there you are in Palo Alto, smack in 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.039 the middle of Silicon Valley. Healthcare we know has been 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:57.160 slow to change, slow to disrupt, but the virus has 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.640 definitely made people um do more telement us in we'd 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.960 start to see some changes in the health care system. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.520 What role can and should Silicon Valley be playing, even 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.240 more so when it comes to kind of bringing healthcare 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.360 to the twenty one century. Sure, I think that the 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:16.720 pandemic is an unprecedented opportunity for Silicon Valley and technology 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.279 to show the value around major changes. So, you know, 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.440 what we've seen is say telemedicine, you know, utilization up 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.080 by five acts of what it was before. This is 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:32.279 you know, really important that is a tech industry, we're 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.640 able to move quickly to use the window of opportunity 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.360 to bring in these changes and really for us as 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:43.280 a clinical trial company to serve patients in new ways, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.719 and they're looking to connect to the health care system 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.679 with new technologies now and bringing it back to your company. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.480 Just got about forty seconds left here. I mean, the 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.320 more patients that get involved in clinical trials, we ultimately 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.640 on the other side figure out what treatments can best 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.560 serve us as a as a population. I'm I mean 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.160 Chlinical trials are the route to us, you know, achieving 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:08.360 cures to seven thousand or more uncured diseases today, and 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.720 they are a fundamental part of us developing new medication. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.760 So it's to the benefit of everyone. I'd encourage everyone, 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.920 you know to consider clinical trials. It's super important for 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:21.240 us as you know, we move forward with better health 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:23.360 as a society and certainly as we've seen with COVID 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:25.680 night teams. All right, listen, great to check in with you, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.880 and I'm glad we were able to reconnect you well. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.119 Have a great Thanksgiving Dr Michelle Longmeyer. She is CEO 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:33.920 at Meda bal And she is joining us on the 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.040 phone from Palo Alto, California. This is Bloomberg Business Week 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.920 with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.840 Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. We continue to learn every 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.680 day about the power of social media companies such as 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.920 Google and others, and this story reported for Bloomberg Business 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.120 Week really plays into that big time. It's how Google's 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.680 deep pockets really makes some of its rivals less eager 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.720 for an antitrust crackdown. You're probably saying, well it. So 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.840 let's get into this um with our own Bloomberg Business 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.560 Week editor Joe Joe Webber. He's joining us on the 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.360 access line in Brooklyn. This story written by Mark Bergen, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.240 who is technology reporter at Bloomberg News. But Joel, let 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:15.200 me kick it off with you first. I mean, this 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.800 is a story that I feel like, you know, we 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.040 continue to see some of these big social media players, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.880 big you know, tech players, they just continue to dominate, 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:25.720 and some of it is because of some of these 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.720 relationships they have with even some of their smaller competitors. Yeah, 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.400 that's that's what makes this story, UM, I think part 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:38.080 of an interesting antitrust conversation, UM and in an element 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.240 that UM we hadn't I hadn't heard before. And and 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.040 part of that is, you know, Google has really, you know, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:49.319 just an amazing modernization ability, and as part of that, 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.719 they are not shy about throwing their cash around, and 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.760 a lot of that cash goes to to to We'll 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.960 call them rivals, even though that you might not totally 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.120 always think of them as rivals. But but in this case, 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.120 UM and the one that I'd love to have, Mark 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.280 talked more about Mozilla, which has a rival product in 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.520 his Firefox browser, UM actually makes a lot of money 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.920 from Google, even though Google has a rival product and Chrome. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.640 So so Mark talked to us about how how how 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.080 Mozilla in Firefox sort of see this relationship with Google 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.559 in light of the anti Druss conversation that we're in 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.160 the middle of. Yeah. Sure, I think there's like two 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:36.959 different version, right. There is a front facing, sort of 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.880 official version, which is we have Mozilla and there in 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.320 the story saying you know, it's interesting that they actually 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.839 switched to Yahoo in two in fourteen because Yahoo is 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.480 willing to give them a lump sum from our from 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.800 understanding even like a hundred million more year or a 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.480 year than Google, which was great from from Mozilla standpoint 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.839 to have you know, that much more money. But then 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.240 a lot of their Firefox users just started switching over 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.120 to Google. And so by they're telling officially, you know 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:06.080 a lot of people just prefer Google Search show over alternatives. 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.640 You talk to sort of privately with a lot of 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.920 people that they work there, and they're like die hard 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.520 privacy advocates, right, and they're kind of some of them 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.560 are disturbed or upset about some of Google's privacy practices, 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:19.840 and so it's they like, you know, as much as 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:24.120 they want to push on on Google for Chrome, and 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.200 they have done to the marketing and you know they 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.199 can out with a great billboard a few years ago 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.200 that's a big browser is watching you. They're they're well 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.920 aware that they're sort of like poking the bear, uh 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.839 and and they're they're actually kind of targeting who is 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.880 their biggest bank roller. So it's just very awkward, I 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:42.719 think kind of a unique position for the company to 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:47.080 be in, um that many other Google partners are also in, right, 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:48.599 and and so that kind of brings us to the 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.040 anti trust context. Um, So how do how would like 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.280 a regulator um look at at an arrangement like this 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.800 and try and make sense of it. I think, I mean, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.439 you know, Mozilla's come out and publicly and they think 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.679 mostly we expected to privately to say. The d o 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.960 J is coming after these search deals that Google has 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.319 UM where they pay up front for for distribution of 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.600 the search engine. Um. That seems to be something where 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.680 you're going to see a lot of companies that would 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.400 maybe normally come out in the port of that now 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.480 arguing please don't make those illegal bigger because they're really 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.120 important for our bottom line. Um. So I don't know 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:25.679 how the d o J is going to land on that. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.559 You know, you certainly like the Apple Google relationships and 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.400 really fastened anyone, Well get into that one. That's the 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.400 one that blew my mind in your story because it's 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.920 I mean, they really benefit from each other. It's it's 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.640 a great mutual benefit of Google. All these talks about 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.079 how it has a horizontal business, right, uh, and so 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.000 so much of their advertising, right, they're sharing revenue with publishers, 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.840 they're sharing with websites and YouTube. Right. It's it's all 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.800 the same sort of model with the Android right every 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.959 single you know, Samsung gets a lump of change every 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.719 year from the Google searches on Samsung, and Apple gets 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.319 the same deal, although it is a much more secretive deal. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.199 There are very few people at both companies know you 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.440 know the details of that. Um. You know, we reported 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:12.880 Apple had had talked to Microsoft and being a few 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.600 years ago. I think that really scared Google because they 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:21.199 get so much revenue from from iPhones. Mark. Can we 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.360 talk about like Mozilla specifically and like how how much 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.640 do they get in in cash, cold hard cash from 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:33.080 from Google and how significant is that to their bottom line? Yeah, 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.439 so we don't. Mozilla is a it's a nonprofit. It's 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.040 private company owned by a non profits that they put 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.760 out numbers of last numbers from I think with teen 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.000 where they don't give the exact figure saying a line 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.120 one it says from Google, but they have royalties and 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.520 royalties were close to the um They said about ninety 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.560 percent of royalties I believe in over four hundred million 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.199 a year and the revenue and the bulk of that 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.240 comes from these search deals. And so we're from our 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.320 based on our source. Thing that's like about probably minimum 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.959 of that of their entire revenue comes. So this is 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.760 close to half a half a billion dollars a week here. 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.520 That's amazing. UM. So you know, you you also mentioned that, 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.720 you know, and you mentioned this earlier, the privacy element, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:17.440 and one of the things that you sort of had 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.439 explored or was explored in the story, um, is that 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.120 there was actually a kind of a niscent ability to 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.600 sort of jump into the search game. Oh you're gonna 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.000 cut me off for Joe Biden, aren't you. I love 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.959 you dearly, Happy Thanksgiving. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.400 Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. So I do want to 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.720 get to our Bloomberg Green segment because changing times, based 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.520 on the changing political wins. That story in our Bloomberg 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.920 Green segment today really about how today's smart money is 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.599 staying away from Arctic oil drilling. Let's get into it 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.679 with Bloomberg News Environmental regulations reporter Jennifer de Lowe. She 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.960 is with us on the phone from the nation's capital. Hey, Jen, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.400 nice to have you here with us. So we're talking 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.040 about drilling rights and selling those drilling rights. That's something 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:07.839 that Trump Trump administration has been pretty aggressive about doing absolutely. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.160 You know, they were part of a push several years 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:16.120 ago to get Congress to basically mandate that they stand 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.839 up a drilling program in the Arctic as part of 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.800 the tax bill in two thousand seventeen. And now they're 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.480 taking really concrete steps to try to get drilling rights sold. 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.720 Really in the final days and maybe even hours of 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.120 the Trump presidency, we could see at least Sail January 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.560 nineteen uh trying to basically get these drilling rights out 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.920 the door, and folks are lining up for them. Correct, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:47.400 little little sarcasm, Well, tell listen, let's listen. I feel 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.840 like this speaks to so many conversations we have on Bloomberg. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:51.600 That right, you can put it out there. But the 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.280 winds have changed, especially when it comes to things like 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.800 this and the impact on the climate and kind of 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.680 where the energy markets are going. That's exactly right. I mean, 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.680 we see the same thing in the market, you know, 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.800 with a whole and Naphi gas in the electricity market, 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.440 and here, you know, it's just remarkable. Had this sale 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:13.240 happened even a year ago, you'd have probably seen much 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.040 more interest, much more activity, including some bigger names, and 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.360 and the reality is that oil companies are facing, you know, 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.960 not just the reality of a Biden administration that has 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.480 promised to block are they're drilling, So these leases are 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.880 really going to be worthless for four years at least, 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.080 but they're also seeing you know, financing dry up for 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.920 these projects, and the pr you know, hit that they 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.640 would take from from drilling in the Arctic, which is 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:42.160 wildly unpopular, is a significant factor to a year ago, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.880 some of these considerations were not at play, Jed, you 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.360 know what I think really that was I thought interesting 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.640 that anybody who bids on these drilling rights, as you 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.720 say in your reporting, we'll meet outside financing. And again, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.200 as you said the pr image, there are a lot 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.960 of banks who are like thanks, but no thanks. Because 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.200 increasingly we're seeing among the big investor, there's institutional investors. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.400 They are looking at the investments, the loans that a 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:08.000 bank makes, right, the business that it transacts, uh, in 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.240 terms of how it fits into increasingly e s G criteria. 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.920 Well that's exactly right. A movie seen five major US 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.600 banks adopt policy saying that they are not going to 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.000 finance oil and gas projects in the Arctic refuge. And 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.720 they're saying, you know that they're adopting these policies not 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.720 because they're you know, just being pressured by environmentalists, which 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.080 is something you hear from the Trump administrations, but in 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.480 fact there are real financial risks involved. They've already taken 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.560 hits with their oil investments, and of course they're concerned 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.040 about risks to the climate, to their investments and their 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.760 reputation if they keep underwriting these projects. So what happens though, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:48.520 if somebody does buy a lease before the Biden administration 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.960 steps in, Um, it's real right and it can lead 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.360 to drilling. In fact, it can so these leases if 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.720 they are formally not just sold, but actually formally issued 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.800 before or Biden is inaugurated, their ten year contracts, and 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.280 it's really hard to to get out of a contract 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.840 and would be really hard for the Biden administrations to 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.439 walk away from them. Uh. The reality is every single 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.159 permit these companies would need to actually do something with 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.600 those leases is not going to come in the next 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.000 four years. I mean we're talking about drilling permits, but 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:24.040 also environmental various environmental approvals and wildlife approvals. So all 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.359 of those are an obstacle to actually standing up activity 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:29.760 in the next four years. One thing that's going to 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.879 be interesting to see is really who shows up. We 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.720 won't have big names, but we could see some small 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.159 sub speculators and little known companies that have ties with 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.640 the last interests that want to see the theory of develops. Yeah, 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.320 it's a fascinating story and a deep dive into what's 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.639 going on. Uh, you know, as everything else is going 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:49.200 on around us, we've got to keep a watch on 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.120 these kinds of things. Jen Thank you so much. Jennifer Deloe. 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.520 She is environmental regulations reporter for us here at Bloomberg 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.360 News in our Bloomberg Green segment today. Check her out 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.960 on Twitter and you can check her out on the 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.720 Bloomberg terminal and also at Bloomberg dot com. This is 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.040 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. Oh, 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.920 just scanning my Bloomberg terminal and yeah, this is the 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:14.600 most right story in the past eight hours on the 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.760 Bloomberg and kind of feeling a little bit chilly across 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.360 Wall Street. This story is about Bank of America's leaders, 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.960 how they are planning year and bonuses that break with 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.760 Wall Streets traders hopes for hefty raises. It's kind of 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.879 odd considering they've had a bit of a record setting run. 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.040 So let's explain what's going on. Michelle Davis, finance reporter 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:35.960 at Bloomberg New she's with us once again on the 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.800 phone from Vermont. Michelle, good to have you here with us. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:41.479 You know, you put bonus in a headline and it's 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:46.520 going to trend high on the Bloomberg. What's going on here? Yeah, So, 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.359 you know, as you mentioned, Bank America's senior executives have 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.600 been floating plans right now about you know, what bonuses 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.240 are going to look like. It's that time of year 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.920 and a lot of people in the industry, you know, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.960 traders have been expecting to get big payoffs because trading 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.240 revenue has surged this year. You know, it's been one 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.840 of the best years in in a decade or since 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.640 the financial crisis. Some people feel like they've worked harder 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.560 than they ever have before. And uh, the color we're 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.240 getting is that exacts they're actually thinking about keeping the 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.440 bonus pool slots for traders, even though you know, trading 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:26.040 revenue jumped in the first nine months of the year. 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.639 And a lot of this has to do with the 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.639 fact that, you know, Bank of America while it has 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.720 Wall Street Operations also has a big consumer bank that 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.840 uh hasn't been performing as well over the past few months. Uh. 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.480 This you know, matches what what other banks have also 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.359 been dealing with. And so you know, banks have had 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.600 to put up a ton of money, billions of dollars 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.080 to cover potential loan losses on the consumer side of 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.680 their businesses, and so in preparation for that, they're having 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.680 to temper expectations about bonuses on the on the Wall 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.360 Street side to try to you know, sturdy the ship, 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.760 study the ship before poss well on certain right. And 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.399 some would say, listen, they that's executives the C suite 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.120 being responsible and looking at the whole business and saying, Okay, 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:09.800 what do we need to do to make sure one 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.760 year from now we're in pretty good shape, right because 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.360 we still don't have a lot of visibility about next year. Um. 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.640 And so some of them would say, or some would argue, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:22.960 right that it's top grasping responsible exactly exactly. And you know, 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.520 it's a pretty big deal because as we've been talking about, 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.680 you know, this year, the five biggest US investment thanks 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.639 you know, they're on taste to generate almost a hundred 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.480 billion dollars in trading revenue for the first time in 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.400 more than time years. And if Bank of America comes 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.760 out and says, you know, bonuses are probably gonna be flat. 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.800 All the other banks they pay close attention to, you know, 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.960 not only surveys about compensation, but also what what competitors 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:51.520 are doing, because no one wants to be the one 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.400 paying the least, but they also don't want to want 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.880 to be, you know, the entity that's handing out big 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.960 wads of cash when they could get away with paying less. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.800 And so Bank of America coming out, you know, this 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:06.760 story could give others cover to pay less than what 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.520