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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: thing the railway station. Got a ticket for a destination

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Speaker 1: show and today legendary songwriter Paul Simon on two one

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Speaker 1: that stands may suit case and guitar and and every

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Speaker 1: stop is neatly plan for a poet and award words.

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Speaker 1: Paul Simon doesn't often give interviews. He occasionally tours, recently

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Speaker 1: with Sting, but mostly Simon lives a quiet life at

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Speaker 1: home in Connecticut with his wife, singer Edie Brickell. There

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Speaker 1: he spends his time making music and writing songs. He's

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Speaker 1: written hundreds, a large number of which are among the

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Speaker 1: most popular and admired in music history. Bridge Over, Troubled Water, Coda, Chrome, Slip,

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Speaker 1: Slide in Away Graceland, to name a few. Over the years,

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Speaker 1: the way he creates his songs has changed. The process

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Speaker 1: has evolved. There's still elements of it that are like

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Speaker 1: the my first instincts about writing, but otherwise it's become

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Speaker 1: much slower and much more complicated. I think, well, because

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Speaker 1: it's entwined with record making with me that's singing both,

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Speaker 1: and it's a complicated process. Now it's um to you know,

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Speaker 1: to do it abstractly without referring to one particular song

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Speaker 1: probably wouldn't show you as much as if I gave

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Speaker 1: you an example but described what it was like before

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Speaker 1: they just came ripping out of you all the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: um not No. I was never a really fast writer.

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Speaker 1: But when I was in my early twenties h and

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Speaker 1: I wrote all the songs for all the beginning songs

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Speaker 1: for Simon and Garth phone Call, that came pretty fast.

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Speaker 1: I was living partly here in partly in England, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: well really you know, I mean within a five year

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Speaker 1: period of from like nineteen sixty five to nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: I wrote us God, most of my big hits, you know,

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Speaker 1: Bridge Over, Trouble Waters, Sound of Silence, Mrs Robinson, the Boxer,

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Speaker 1: Homeward Bound, I am a rock, Let's see America Feeling

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Speaker 1: Groovy as a hit for somebody else. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: was faster, but now I'm much slower. This last group

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Speaker 1: of songs that I've been working on has been probably

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Speaker 1: taking me about three years. But it isn't like I

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Speaker 1: finished the song and go onto the next. I just

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Speaker 1: keep working on the songs. So some of them are

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Speaker 1: like a work in progress. That's like three fectionism. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't like that word because it implies about nine

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Speaker 1: questions that use the word perfectionism in them. So I well,

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Speaker 1: I just don't think it's It's like any performance. If

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Speaker 1: I said to you, oh, I like, you're just like

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Speaker 1: you know, you're just a perfectionist. You know, you know,

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Speaker 1: why do you want to take another take? It was great?

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Speaker 1: You're a perfectionist, you're you know. Your answer would be,

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Speaker 1: there's no perfect. Not going for perfect. I'm going for

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Speaker 1: something that I know and I know and when it

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Speaker 1: happens for me. That's what you would say. As a performer,

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Speaker 1: you can how can I think it right? You know?

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Speaker 1: I mean, but even if you've got it, you wouldn't say, well,

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Speaker 1: this is a perfect performance. You would say, no, I

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Speaker 1: realized my vision or I realized how I wanted to

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Speaker 1: play this, but you wouldn't describe it as perfect. Right.

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Speaker 1: Perfect doesn't have anything to do with it, with the whole,

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Speaker 1: with the whole thing. It is added a question. It's

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Speaker 1: like Japanese temples where they always leave some imperfection and

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Speaker 1: a zen temple because the idea of striving for a

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Speaker 1: perfect temple was an affront to you know, God, It's

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Speaker 1: not possible for man to do a thing without import

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Speaker 1: with with no imperfection. When you write music, now, is

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Speaker 1: there like a state you want to get into? Is

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Speaker 1: there a place? Is there a whole you when you

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Speaker 1: left alone for a couple of hours to think about it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I find them basically thinking about this all

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Speaker 1: the time when I'm not thinking about um, you know,

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Speaker 1: my wife and family or some little crisis that comes

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Speaker 1: up or something like that. If my mind is just

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Speaker 1: you know, free to go where it wants to go,

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Speaker 1: it goes to the songs I'm working on constantly, just

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Speaker 1: all the time. When you wrote music before, whether any

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Speaker 1: of them that just came right out of you and

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Speaker 1: it s well, sometimes they do in the early ones,

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Speaker 1: of course, like the Sounds of Silence. I wrote that

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Speaker 1: when I was twenty one years old, and I have

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Speaker 1: no idea. I couldn't have taken very long. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea how I even wrote that song,

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Speaker 1: because and at the time it wasn't like I was

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Speaker 1: really surprised that I wrote it. I thought this was good,

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Speaker 1: this is a good song, but I had no idea

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Speaker 1: of what that was. Same with Bridge over Trouble Water.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wrote it. I said, this is better

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Speaker 1: than I usually write. This is a this is this

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Speaker 1: is a this is a good song. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that it was going to be a song that

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Speaker 1: was going to be fifty years and people you know

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Speaker 1: would know it for you know, the songs you've made

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Speaker 1: that have been in the film soundtracks? Were you appreciative

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Speaker 1: of that? And great depends on that depends on how

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Speaker 1: they were used or something. You know. Look, there's no

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Speaker 1: time that I've that I could say I object to

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Speaker 1: the way my song is used in uh in your movie,

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Speaker 1: because I mean if I objected that much, I don't

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Speaker 1: have to give him a license. I control publishing. So

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Speaker 1: so I mean sometimes I think, oh, this is really good,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, um, when I see the other day

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Speaker 1: Anderson's film about the family, Wes Anderson Tenant Bounds, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Tenemy, the Royal Tenor Bounds. Right, I just saw

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Speaker 1: the Royal Tenant Bounds. Again. The other dadn't seen it,

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Speaker 1: probably and I don't know what ten years or something

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Speaker 1: like that, eight years or something, and they used me

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Speaker 1: and Julio in there, and it's perfect. Comes in said there,

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Speaker 1: I said, perfect. All I could say it about somebody

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Speaker 1: else's work. Anyway, it's a it's a very good choice.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of explodes and a joyous what happened on

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Speaker 1: the joy with the kids? Yeah, that's great. I never

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Speaker 1: watd that film. That's why I know that film. I

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Speaker 1: love his films such an on Ball. Yeah, I like

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Speaker 1: his films a lot, and I really like that one

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Speaker 1: in which I hadn't seen in a while. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I love Gene Hackman's performance. And was Cape Man the

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Speaker 1: only musical you did? The others who were on the

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Speaker 1: drawing where that was the only one everyone did conceive

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Speaker 1: nothing that was Yeah, it takes so long to make them. Well,

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Speaker 1: it takes me a long time to do anything, you know,

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Speaker 1: to do anything. But it took a long time to

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Speaker 1: make the to make the cape Man, that was about

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Speaker 1: five years. And then the idea began. When the idea

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Speaker 1: was um, I think it was after Graceland and and

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Speaker 1: the Rhythm of the Saints, I said, well, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's time to do something else. I know, how do

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Speaker 1: I follow those albums? You know? So I'll do I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll try to take my hand out a musical and

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Speaker 1: then that kids salad grown. He's just in my memory

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Speaker 1: from when I grew up here. So I picked him

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Speaker 1: because that would mean that the music would be doo wop.

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Speaker 1: And also he was Puerto Rican, so that means it

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Speaker 1: would be Latin music in there too. So to me,

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Speaker 1: I said, I could be interested in listening to a

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Speaker 1: musical that was due up in Latin. I like both

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Speaker 1: of them. I think it would be a nice And

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Speaker 1: here's the story. So that's how I picked it, you know.

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Speaker 1: That's that's why I did it, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: as as it turns out, we we didn't do it

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Speaker 1: very well. And what do you mean by that? Why? Well,

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Speaker 1: I should I shouldn't really put it that way. It

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Speaker 1: was notably unsuccessful critically and everything, and there are serious

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Speaker 1: flaws with it as a piece. But actually a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was really good. I mean, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people were thrilled by the attempt that you

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Speaker 1: met people who were you know, oh yeah, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah it had. It brought a lot of goodwill.

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Speaker 1: People liked it and uh, but it wasn't a success.

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Speaker 1: But when it came back at Bam, I know whatever,

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Speaker 1: it was seven eight years ago, and then when it

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Speaker 1: was done in Central Park two years after that, they

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Speaker 1: were both successful. Anyway, I think it was a very

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Speaker 1: interesting piece and I'm not, by any means embarrassed by

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Speaker 1: I think it's some really good things in there. Certainly

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Speaker 1: the best doop song I ever wrote is in there.

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Speaker 1: And uh, but anyway, I don't really have any interest

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Speaker 1: in doing it. You don't. Are there other things you

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Speaker 1: think of? Do you think about films? Just scoring film?

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Speaker 1: Never that was the that was the deviation for you. Um. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not something that I think of. But if somebody

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Speaker 1: came to me with a really interesting like for example,

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Speaker 1: there's a an old friend of mine who's will play right,

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Speaker 1: and he asked me if I would write some guitar

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Speaker 1: music to a new play that he wrote, And I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting idea. But I wouldn't think to myself,

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Speaker 1: I'd to write some guitar music for a theatrical piece films. Um,

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Speaker 1: if somebody came to me with an idea, I would.

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Speaker 1: I might be very excited by it. But really, what

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Speaker 1: I think about naturally is writing songs and making records,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really content to not do anything other than

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Speaker 1: that because I'm still learning about that. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's getting better. And as the work sort of the

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Speaker 1: work getting better is a is a manifestation of me

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Speaker 1: understanding things that I've been working on from you know,

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Speaker 1: a long time, some things like you know, decades and

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Speaker 1: decades some So I don't have a specific example. I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking about how you you, over decades learn a

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Speaker 1: sense of what words to stay away from, what we're

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Speaker 1: to go to, how rhythm could be used, how melody

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Speaker 1: you just learn you know from your craft, uh interest

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Speaker 1: you say, what words to stay away from that in

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Speaker 1: different circumstances you would want to stay away from certain

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Speaker 1: certain love words. A lawyer, No, I never. I went

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Speaker 1: to law school for a year. But that was a

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Speaker 1: complete that was a complete misunderstanding of who I was

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Speaker 1: by me, where'd you go law? One year? It was

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Speaker 1: so boring. I wasn't interested in I had no reason

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Speaker 1: to be. This is my idea. No. No. What happened

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Speaker 1: was a bunch of my friends in college, we're going

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Speaker 1: to take the law boards, so I so they said

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Speaker 1: you should take them. So I was an English major,

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Speaker 1: but I said, okay, I'll take him. And I took

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Speaker 1: him and I scored very high on them, so, you know,

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Speaker 1: at twenty years old or whatever, you know, I said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm supposed to be a lawyer

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Speaker 1: or something. I mean, if I scored so high on me,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know, you know. So I went and

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Speaker 1: you know, did a year of in Brooklyn. I made

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Speaker 1: the record I had made that record would already by

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Speaker 1: that anyway, exactly Columbia deal. Yeah. So we had made

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Speaker 1: this Wednesday morning, three am, and the acoustic version of

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Speaker 1: the Sound of Silence in nineteen sixty four, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I was at school then, and then I probably

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Speaker 1: wrote it. You know, I don't remember when I wrote it,

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Speaker 1: by a year or two before we recorded it, you know.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I was just one of those you know,

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Speaker 1: I could have wasted it on a lot of worse

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Speaker 1: things than that, I suppose, but I was going to

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Speaker 1: England and every break I had I was going to

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Speaker 1: and I had my friends there and my girlfriend there

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Speaker 1: and uh and then uh and the first semester at school,

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Speaker 1: I got bees and I wasn't showing up or doing anything.

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Speaker 1: And I said, this is you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's ridiculous. The next semester, I got all d's, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I mean, the truth is,

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Speaker 1: I just don't want to be this, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be here, so I'm I'm leaving. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's not like I said, Oh now, I'm I've got

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Speaker 1: to really dig in if I don't want to get

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Speaker 1: a d I just said, I'm just totally indifferent. I'm

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Speaker 1: just in over the wrong place. And I went and

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Speaker 1: I moved to England. And there's your girlfriend, that the

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Speaker 1: one who you're married, No Kathy, who has of of

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Speaker 1: you know, the songs about her. You've got a whole

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Speaker 1: list of questions, these questions that you're interested in, the

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Speaker 1: questions that you think people will be interested in. I

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Speaker 1: get a list of questions that I have a producer, right,

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Speaker 1: and some volume of them. I used that I write

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Speaker 1: a lot of my own questions because the basic principle

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Speaker 1: is I want people to describe for me, and whether

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Speaker 1: it's you, whether it's Obama, it doesn't matter who is everybody.

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Speaker 1: I wanted them to describe, how is it felt to

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Speaker 1: be you? Really, that's the basic premise of the show.

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Speaker 1: What about if somebody doesn't want to describe that they're

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Speaker 1: free to do with whatever they please. Maybe they don't

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Speaker 1: even want to describe that to themselves. To themselves, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe sometimes it's a way of thinking about life, is

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. Some people come in here and after

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Speaker 1: about twenty minutes they begin to have a conversation that

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Speaker 1: I think that they wanted to have. My next question

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Speaker 1: for you is what did your parents think when you

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Speaker 1: were so young? Did your parents have any kind of

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Speaker 1: opinion about your career at that age? You were sixteen

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Speaker 1: years old when you want American bands down? Oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that anybody thought of it as a career.

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Speaker 1: I think I thought they were, you know, be I

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Speaker 1: made a record, The record got played on the radio,

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, kind of a hit. We went

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Speaker 1: on television. What do you think about that? They were happy?

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Speaker 1: You know, my father was a professional bass player and

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Speaker 1: he was used to be on some television shows that

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Speaker 1: you know, like UM, the the Arthur Godfrey Show. He

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Speaker 1: was in that band, and Jackie Gleason he was on

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Speaker 1: that band. So I mean, it wasn't that it was

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Speaker 1: added a question that you would ever see somebody on

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Speaker 1: television because like we'd you know, when we're kids would

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Speaker 1: let's see it, let's see if we see dad, you know,

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Speaker 1: when they showed the band. But so, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was like it's not exactly a show business family, but

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Speaker 1: it's not exactly civilian either. You know, he was he

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Speaker 1: was a good musician. I'm sure he didn't think that

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Speaker 1: the piece of work that we did was very good,

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Speaker 1: but he was happy that it was to change what

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Speaker 1: his opinion about my work. Yeah, of course I wonder

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Speaker 1: what that was like for him. Well, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a very very interesting question and one that I think

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Speaker 1: about a lot. But I do really do think that

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Speaker 1: it's like one of those questions that even though there's

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Speaker 1: nothing in in the response that would be hurtful or anything,

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Speaker 1: it's just one of those things where like it's sort

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Speaker 1: of my life, you know, like it's not it's very

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Speaker 1: entertaining I know for people, but why should I do that?

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Speaker 1: And not the kind of thing you want to talk about? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so how he felt about, you know me, obviously,

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Speaker 1: it was like it is a very interesting subject and

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Speaker 1: a complex and a complex subject, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: think about it a lot because, as you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: it would be provoke all kinds of all kinds of

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Speaker 1: response responses and parent child relationships. But everything happens to everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's not like there is anything of mine

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Speaker 1: that is that different from anybody else's experiences that I should,

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Speaker 1: you know, bequeath it that much more time. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's something, Yeah, there was something up, something was off,

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Speaker 1: you know, but that's crazy about him. I'm sure he

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Speaker 1: was crazy about me. And uh and if there was

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Speaker 1: a complication in it, then okay, it's like what what

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Speaker 1: you know as opposed to let me figure out what

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Speaker 1: that complication was and let's talk about it. That's that's so,

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Speaker 1: so let's go on. You know, another subject I wanted you.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to be rude. Do you want to

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Speaker 1: ask me another question about that? Or the only reason

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Speaker 1: I asked is because I mean, for me, my dad

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Speaker 1: died when I was twenty five years old, and he

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Speaker 1: never got to see any of what I did. And

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Speaker 1: I'm always interested in people's relationships with their parents in

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Speaker 1: terms of just how how it may or may not

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Speaker 1: affect what you do. You know, how man, you know,

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Speaker 1: just anecdotally, I noticed that people whose childhood's are more

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Speaker 1: troubled than mine was but you know, I had had

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Speaker 1: some kind of hardships, usually money issues or something like that,

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Speaker 1: or family or broken you know, divorce or you know

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Speaker 1: that there's more interest in the subject than I naturally

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Speaker 1: feel about it, having grown up with just my younger

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Speaker 1: brother and a peaceful, loving, uh family. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: can't say that I really wanted to get out of there,

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Speaker 1: you know, but for what purpose? She just you know,

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Speaker 1: I was ready. Yeah, I was free, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just want to be free. Is a picture of my

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Speaker 1: my son Adrian that that I love. He's sitting He's

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Speaker 1: sitting in a snowsuit. He looks like he's maybe a

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Speaker 1: year old, sitting in the snow in Central Park, and

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Speaker 1: the look of exasperation on his face is so profound

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Speaker 1: that I know, it's like he was already whoever he was,

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Speaker 1: and he just you know, said, oh man, do I

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Speaker 1: have to go through this whole thing to get up

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Speaker 1: to you know? He was that guy already. And whoever

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Speaker 1: I was, they people weren't prepared for for what it

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Speaker 1: is that I was in the world that I came from.

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Speaker 1: Nobody nobody said, well, will you make your living as

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Speaker 1: an artist? Like that wasn't a possibility. Certainly you can

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Speaker 1: make your living as a rock and roll artist. And

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Speaker 1: I mean forget about like the greatest songwriters or something

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Speaker 1: like that, just even a songwriter. You know, like you're

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Speaker 1: gonna like be a songwriter. Or It's like so nobody

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Speaker 1: was saying anything particular, like wow, you're really gifted. You

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Speaker 1: should you know, do this study that. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was like great, My father's thing was great. You know

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Speaker 1: you can do this. You know, it's better than waiting

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Speaker 1: on tables. You know, it's so being you know, be

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Speaker 1: a musician, but don't be a musician for your whole career.

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Speaker 1: But I was already long gone into that. M Paul

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Speaker 1: Simon's career in music has made an indelible mark. Simon

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Speaker 1: and Garfunkel won the Grammy for Lifetime Achievement, and Simon

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Speaker 1: himself belongs to an elite club of musicians inducted into

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Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame twice. Other members

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Speaker 1: include Michael Jackson, Blue Read, Paul McCartney, and John Lennon.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our archives where I speak with

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Speaker 1: another musician with a long and storied career, Radio Heads

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Speaker 1: frontman Tom York. You've been with those guys for how long?

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Speaker 1: And now we started when were six Radiohead, so that's

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Speaker 1: quite long. What do you attribute that to? Persistence? My

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Speaker 1: great diplomatic skills. Note more at Here's the Thing dot org.

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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

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Speaker 1: As the story goes, Paul Simon met Art Garth Uncle

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Speaker 1: during a sixth grade production of Alice in Wonderland. Four

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Speaker 1: years later, they signed with a label under the pseudonym

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Speaker 1: Tom and Jerry, and their song Hey Schoolgirl reached the

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Speaker 1: Billboard Charts. Today, Paul Simon has twelve Grammys, and in

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven, he became the first recipient of the

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Speaker 1: Library of Congress' Is Gershwin Prize for Popular Song. Paul

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Speaker 1: never stops working on his music, and he brought a

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Speaker 1: c D of some of his latest songs to our interview.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's an album, you know, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know what it is anymore, because I'm working on a

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Speaker 1: group of songs and I've been working on him for

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Speaker 1: a long time. And uh, and I'm also working on

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Speaker 1: different sounds. And you know, as you combine things from

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Speaker 1: different places and you find a way of expressing yourself

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Speaker 1: by doing that. There's something calming about that. It's good

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Speaker 1: and it sort of spills you into the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life. You start the problem solve in the same

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Speaker 1: way he starts. To just have a certain connection that

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Speaker 1: you that you sense and you believe in it, and

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Speaker 1: you go at least you go with it. And if

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Speaker 1: I have to break down what my instincts are cerebraly

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Speaker 1: and tell you why, I can, you know, but it's

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Speaker 1: not really necessary for me to get in the way

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Speaker 1: of whatever the flow is going is going to give me.

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Speaker 1: And then, you know, after I've reached a certain amount

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Speaker 1: of songs, I cut it off and say, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: this group. Let's now I'll take a look and see

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Speaker 1: is that is that something? You know? What is it?

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Speaker 1: I've just finished it? What is it now? You know?

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Speaker 1: Because it's not It's not this same process as like

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Speaker 1: a movie company says, here, I want to make a movie.

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Speaker 1: You know, here's here's what it is, here's the and

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Speaker 1: here's the budget, and when you finish it will judge it,

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Speaker 1: you know. But in the context that you're making it

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Speaker 1: is that is a certain context. I'm not doing that.

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Speaker 1: I'm just finishing a bunch of songs and then saying

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? And my, I guess my, you know,

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Speaker 1: my first real question is it's like, what does that

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Speaker 1: mean to somebody else who's listening to it? Do you

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Speaker 1: have a producer? No? No, No. All the albums you've

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Speaker 1: made over the many, many years, how many of them?

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Speaker 1: What percentage would you say you had a producer? It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. They weren't really they weren't, you know. They

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Speaker 1: they helped me. And well, look, there can be a

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Speaker 1: producer who says, let's pick the songs and then you

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Speaker 1: you know, you go, we'll get the musicians and we'll

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Speaker 1: do it like this. And the artist says, okay, well

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Speaker 1: I do that. I make up the songs, I make

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Speaker 1: up the sounds. What I need to work with it

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Speaker 1: and in a collaboration is a great engineer, and I

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Speaker 1: am working with one. You do it all in the

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Speaker 1: same studio. I do it up in a little studio

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Speaker 1: in my house. There. Well, no if as if there

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Speaker 1: are big, bigger things like drums or something like that,

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Speaker 1: I might not do it. That might do it in

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Speaker 1: the studio, but I have to record a drums there too. Well.

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Speaker 1: The other day we we went up to this church

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Speaker 1: and in Hartford and we recorded a big pipe organ

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Speaker 1: to put on one of the tracks. That's interesting anyway.

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Speaker 1: You know, you would know what I was talking about

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Speaker 1: if you had heard any of this, and your reaction

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Speaker 1: to it was, Oh, I like that. I'd like to

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Speaker 1: hear it again. That's entertaining. I like it, you know,

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Speaker 1: because most music that you hear that's new. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Steve Barton's got a great joke and he says, uh,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to play a new song for you now.

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Speaker 1: He said. You know, if you're like me, when an

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Speaker 1: artist says they'd like to play a new song, I

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Speaker 1: always think, please, don't you know. And it's very hard

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Speaker 1: to get anybody to really like something that you're doing

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Speaker 1: that's new, h or to like anything really. I did

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Speaker 1: SNL once and Lauren had me tip McCartney and hand

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Speaker 1: him a lot of money at the opening and say

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Speaker 1: only the old stuff. Paul plays only the old stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I slip him up a twenty dollar pillar or something.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, no one wants to hear the new

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Speaker 1: stuff unless it's really good. It's it's it's that people

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Speaker 1: people who have been have heard enough stuff that isn't

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Speaker 1: good that they now are weary. You know, when people

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Speaker 1: were really interested in songs and stuff like if you

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Speaker 1: go to the sixties or that and to that period

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Speaker 1: of you know, people were really interested to see if

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Speaker 1: what was your new song? They didn't dread it. They

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Speaker 1: dread it. Now because people don't have any particularly great

424
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: ideas with their new song, better off going to a

425
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: new artist. Get you listen to music now? All the

426
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: time you devour? I want to devour. Would you listen

427
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: to a lot of music? What purpose beyond pleasure? Beyond

428
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: consuming it? Like everybody else does? What? What? What? What's

429
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: music in your life? Wait? What purpose beyond pleasure? But

430
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: you need a purpose? You don't need You don't. You

431
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: don't listen to things to find out what people are

432
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: doing in popular music. I'm just curious. No, I don't

433
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: much listen to popular music. You just you just ask

434
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: me if I listen to music, what kind of music?

435
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: All kinds? Everything? You know, old music, new, new classical music,

436
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: music from different composers, odd composers, gospel music, country music, jazz. Depend.

437
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: If I'm driving in the car, I have this like

438
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: some Vibrus stations programmed and like what are they? Well,

439
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: fifties Sinatra, Willie have the Sinatra channel, Willie's place, Uh,

440
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,959
Speaker 1: Elvis Presley, which is a very disappointing channel. Uh and uh.

441
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: I think B B BB King's Bluesville and one other.

442
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: It might be an another jazz. The sources that are

443
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: that I am drawing from are far enough a field.

444
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: I think that you you don't think to yourself, you know,

445
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm listening to this in the context of my music.

446
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: For example, there's a composer named Harry Partch, and he's

447
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: dead now. He died in the seventies. He was he um.

448
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: He was born in the West Coast in the report

449
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: of twentieth century. Anyway, Harry Partch's belief was that that

450
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: an octave is not divided into twelve notes like you

451
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: see on a piano. If you go from sea to see,

452
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: including black he's and white keys, it's twelve notes. He said,

453
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: that's a false division of the way music occurs. Really,

454
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: an octave has about forty three distinct notes, and in

455
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: order for him to compose this microtonal music, he had

456
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: to build instruments that played microtonally. Anyway, this composer, his

457
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: instruments were out at Montclair State UH in New Jersey,

458
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: and and I made contact. One of the guys in

459
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: my band knew UH the guy who was curating those instruments,

460
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: and he played Harry parts music because his name was

461
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Dean Drummond. He he died about a year and a

462
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: half ago. But anyway, I got into this thought that

463
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: this song that I wrote would be very good in

464
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: a context of this microL micro tonality. So I went

465
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: out there and recorded it and put the song down.

466
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: And you know, so I can't say that I'm listening

467
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: to find out something. I'm not listening and saying what

468
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: are you doing? Oh m, let's see, Oh that's that's

469
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: hipper than I am, or that's not as hip as

470
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: I am. Or I'm listening to things that are sounds

471
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: and or thoughts that that I'm interested in. You know.

472
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: So that's one track on this I mean the other

473
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: tracks have all other other reasons. And then you know,

474
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: for for happening like rhythmically or sonically. And then there's

475
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: also the whole question of sound, what sounds are pleasing?

476
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 1: How often to change a sound so that the mind

477
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: is really being entertained in a way it likes the

478
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: use of all of that if he if My feeling is,

479
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: if you do it properly, Ah, anybody or many people

480
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: who listen to it will find pleasure from it because

481
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: it's ah, there's some there. It professes to have a

482
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: truth to it. In other words, I do believe that, uh,

483
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: there are forty three tones, because if you hear people

484
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: singing acapella, you'd say, oh, that's attitude or that's that,

485
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: or they're terrible. But no, I mean it's the human

486
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: voice going down. These are all these different pitches between

487
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: this note and this note and the guy's right. There

488
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: are all those pitches. It's only that we divided it

489
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: in that particular way that makes us think that's flat

490
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: or that's sharp. So, I mean, that's a very you know,

491
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: and not only is an interesting musical thought, it's just

492
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: an interesting thought period when you write music. Over the years,

493
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: you had a partner, You've had some ad hoc collaborations

494
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: with people, like you did some performance thing either a

495
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: tour with him. But but I'm assuming that you haven't

496
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: done a lot of that. Have you have? You had

497
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: a lot of opportunities to do that, and it's not

498
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: that interesting to you or when when it comes sting?

499
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: How does that happen? Well, it sting. You know. That's

500
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: a performance collaboration that happened because we were both singing

501
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: at a at a fundraising event. We both were supposed

502
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: to sing at a fundraising event, you know, just the

503
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar, and so we said, okay, let's do it

504
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: together and we'll sing two duets, you know, let's pick

505
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: the songs. So that's how that happened. But otherwise I

506
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: do lots of I just gotta I just gotta contacted

507
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: by Aaron all who's my friend who said let's do something,

508
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I'm definitely gonna do something with

509
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: Aaron Nelle. I just did something with Dion. It's really

510
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: good too. It's really good, you know. I mean it's interesting. So,

511
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, these are various things that I think, you know,

512
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: that I that I think of. And the fact that

513
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: it's not the mainstream, well it's I don't know, it's

514
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: it's neither here nor there. I mean, it's it, you know.

515
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: I hate to say it is what it is, but

516
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: it is what it is. That that's that's what I

517
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: do with my time and my thoughts I'm not making

518
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: a making any case for it. The only case I

519
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: can make for that is if I what I do

520
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: is entertaining, and then you know, and I'd say, okay,

521
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: so I'm you know. The way I'm thinking is is

522
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: good at the time that you collaborated with garf uncle,

523
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: would you write songs and you and he would in

524
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: your head and he was in the music d n

525
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: A wise when you were writing the music. I'm assuming

526
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: so when you were together, and and and if and

527
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: the follow up to that is what do you find

528
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: that now? Sometimes you write songs and you and that

529
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: comes as in an old habit that you come in

530
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: for you, not even necessarily him as somebody else. The

531
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: songs come to your head sometimes that you write music

532
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: seems to be passing through you like waves, you know.

533
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: And when when that happens to your sit there and go,

534
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: well that would I would need someone else to do

535
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: that with me? No, no more, no, not anymore? Something else?

536
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: I mean? Well, first of all, uh, to go all

537
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: the way back to the times that I sang with Artie,

538
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: since we started singing together, it was kind of natural

539
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: for me too, and what I wrote for the two

540
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 1: of us to sing it. I didn't spend any time

541
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: thinking about what I should do that's going to be

542
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: good for the two you know, singable for the two

543
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: of us. What I was writing was singable for the

544
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: two of about, and it probably didn't separate until I

545
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: wrote Bridge over Trouble Water, which you know. When I

546
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: wrote that, I said, well, already should sing that, you know.

547
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: Not it shouldn't be two two voices. Already should sing that,

548
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: you know. But otherwise I really didn't spend a lot

549
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: of time thinking about who, you know who. I just

550
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: sort of just keep writing the songs. They're mostly about,

551
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: mostly about my life. You know, I'm not writing for somebody.

552
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm not writing somebody else. I'm not writing for somebody else.

553
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: You don't want to talk about your life, but your

554
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: life's in the music. Yeah, to the degree to which

555
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: I would talk about you know, I'm not pretending that

556
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm that I'm a cipher, you know, I mean you could,

557
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, you can and for lots about who I

558
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: am in my life from the information that's available. But

559
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: that's you know, I wish it. I wish it wasn't

560
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: wish it. It's weird times. We live in that way. Yeah,

561
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, without getting into any of that you know

562
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Mean in my own life, it's like

563
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: I just can't believe. Yeah, it's it's like there's people

564
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: there while you and I are sleeping, there's people doing

565
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: push ups in the garage, and they wake up and

566
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: they want to kill you. They just want to, They

567
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: want to just you know, they construct you. And it's

568
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: a it's a really big distraction if you're trying to

569
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: work on some problem that you really can't quite grasp anyway,

570
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: which is what's always going on with me and the

571
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,439
Speaker 1: music and the writing. It's like, I'm just I can't

572
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: quite grasp that problem. And then you keep pushing. And

573
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: when you do, if you do it right, then you

574
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: get Then you solve the problem. Great, Now what's the

575
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: next problem? Remember, And I'll never forget, you know, I

576
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: certainly have had my public relations and reversals, and what

577
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: I feelized this is I don't want you to love

578
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: me or hate me. Now I get up there. I

579
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: do what I do. If you like it, great, if

580
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: you don't like it, But I don't do the sales,

581
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: the salesmanship anymore at all. Just done to it. Well,

582
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: of course, not because it's it really takes a lot

583
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: of energy and thought to do that. And if you're

584
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: spending your energy and thought on that, then you're not

585
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: spending it on what you're interested in, which which is what,

586
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: however you think about about acting and movies and that.

587
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: And that's why they came to you in the first place,

588
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: because they liked what you did. So now they're going

589
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: to distract you with something and you won't be able

590
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: to do what you did as well, and then they'll say, oh,

591
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,479
Speaker 1: he doesn't do it as well. So for the job

592
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: for the for the artist is to say, you know,

593
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: I can't pay too much attention to you, or I

594
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: can't get this done. You know, at a certain point, Okay,

595
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: you know, how's the business changed. That's a common question

596
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: which we're just gonna say. But in a certain sense,

597
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's this it's not like this is a

598
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: it's not a very profitable business. Ah, it's been like that.

599
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: It's been like that for a long time, you know,

600
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: for with the exception of a couple of acts at

601
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: the at the top, and the records don't sell anywhere

602
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: near what they did. But it's a long change that's coming.

603
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: And I assume that the eventually the digital world will

604
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: start to pay musicians the way they used to pay them.

605
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: Right now, it's not you can't really make you can't

606
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: really make a great, great living at it. But um,

607
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: having said that, for me, since I'm not in the

608
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: position of needing to make a living, fortunately you know,

609
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for that, I can spend time thinking about this,

610
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: which is either an indulgence on my part or is

611
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: worthwhile investigation, depending upon how people listen to it and

612
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 1: what they say afterwards. If they say great, then okay.

613
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 1: Some people sold their songwriting uh royalties of their rights

614
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: over the years. I mean, the Beatles themselves sold that

615
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: a lot of that and uh and then got it back.

616
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 1: But and you didn't. Was there ever a time when

617
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: people just came to you and try trying to wrestle

618
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: from you? Here they tried to tempt you to buy

619
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: because you I mean, I'm saying this and hopefully a flattering,

620
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: flattering way, because your music is so enduring and so

621
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, truth and beauty and abundance and it's going

622
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: to play forever, and you wonder are they gonna do

623
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: people come to you and just try to make you

624
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: some insane offered to kind of run off with your

625
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: song rights. Um no, no, no, yeah, they're been offers

626
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: to buy and that's not a I don't see that.

627
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: I don't see that I would want to sell that,

628
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 1: And of course not if you don't. Ah, how wonderful

629
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: for you that you didn't control. I'm lucky that I Yeah, well,

630
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in the record business here in New York,

631
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: so you know, I knew about having your own publishing company,

632
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: which was nothing. All you have to do was file up,

633
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, some papers with Albany, and you were a company,

634
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: and you could publish your own songs. Nobody was selling

635
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: songs the way publishers used to, so nobody was entitled

636
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: to any of it. So you start your own publishing

637
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: company and I did, and you know, luckily I started

638
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: with the sound of Silence. And uh so, yeah, that's

639
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:30,959
Speaker 1: what's what's your question. At a different time, you see

640
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: the way that the business is now and how tough

641
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: it is to sell recordings and to make a living

642
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: quote unquote, to make a good living in this business,

643
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: and people maybe they thought that that would never evolve

644
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 1: that way, and for whatever reason, they sold their music

645
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: rights and they made a lot of money. What was

646
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: a lot of money back then. I'm sure that they

647
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: felt that they were doing the right thing. And nearly

648
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: everybody and I know that did that regretted that. I mean,

649
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: they always the rights to your intellectual property as king,

650
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: and you want to hold on to that. I think

651
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 1: it's so how fortunate for you that you were able

652
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: to do that. Well, you know, it's got to be

653
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: a very difficult thing for somebody to sell the thing

654
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: that they made, you know, even even if they're really

655
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: well compensated, just still, you know, you're still it's not

656
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: you don't have any distance from that product. It's your

657
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: it's your work, it's it's you, you know, so you're selling.

658
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: You're selling. It's got to be some level of discomfort

659
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: with that, you know, even if you say, look, hey,

660
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: i'll take that, I'll take this this level of discomfort

661
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 1: for this much money, you know. Okay, well, okay, yeah,

662
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: maybe let's take a quick quick Uh can we have

663
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: the music? What are we playing? Have you been told?

664
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: But I don't know, I don't know if just what

665
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: we want to do with this, because nobody's ever heard this.

666
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: Are you are you comfortable with us playing the up

667
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: of the video. I have to think about that for

668
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: a minute. I was just going to play it for you.

669
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: At this point in our interview, Paul Simon plays me

670
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: a new song, Insomnia acts Lullaby. Well, I'm afraid to

671
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: ask you any questions now as we come to the

672
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: end of our time together. But are you insomni active?

673
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: Trouble sleeping on? You're a good sleeper if you are,

674
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: let sleep because I have terrible insomnia and it rules

675
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: my life. I mean, like Understone, you're a good sleeper. Um,

676
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: well when I have a lot of nightmares. Well you

677
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: open that door? Now what what? What? What? What do

678
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: you think that's about? No, I didn't any door. I'm

679
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: just telling me. Okay, I'm sorry. You're you're right, Yeah, No,

680
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: we were just having a casual conversation about sleep. What's

681
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: gonna happen to this music? You're gonna release this? You

682
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 1: don't know? Yeah you are? Oh sure, as soon as

683
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: I finish put it out and see see what I said,

684
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: and then I'll probably gonna play it live. You know.

685
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: It's tough to play some of the stuff like but

686
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: well figuring out and I like my band that you know,

687
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 1: it's the band that that was on tour with Sting

688
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: and I like to you know, that's my band. I

689
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: like to go out and play and you still play

690
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: new music and not, you know, I want to play.

691
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 1: I don't know. If I find I'd like to play

692
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: some smaller theaters. Now, I like that sound the best

693
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: of the you know, I think three thousand seeds, four

694
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: thousand seed, four thousand, that that size has the best sound.

695
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: By the way, I did hear forty two notes inside

696
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: of each lot, at least forty Yeah, those were the

697
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: instruments that I heard something coming. Yeah. Different, Yeah, I

698
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: know it is different. But when you record, are of

699
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: spaces the turn you want or that's irrelevant the environment. No,

700
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: it's not well on the studio if you're I mean,

701
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: studios are disappearing. But the thing that you always looked

702
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: for in the studios had it it sound and what

703
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: was a lucky studio for you? Um there are lots

704
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: of them in New York, I mean, but they've mostly closed.

705
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: What was to be a lot used to be a lot,

706
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: well A and R. It was a studio that existed

707
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: for a long time, has been closed forever. There's no

708
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: more Columbia Studios. Here. Ah, there's no the hit factory

709
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: has gone. Um, it's only you know, there's um, there's avatar.

710
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: That's that's a good place has a good that has

711
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: a good studio and anyway, uh yeah, room there are

712
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 1: rooms that are you know, really good rooms. And and

713
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: in in the history of recording that really used to

714
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 1: be the case. Like I mean, I went to Muscle

715
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,240
Speaker 1: shoals Alabamatory Courts because that that place had those guys,

716
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: and that place had a sound. He just turned on

717
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: the switch and there it was, you know, it was

718
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: just you know, it was magic. And then that's not

719
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: the way music is made today. I don't think. I

720
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: don't know. I really don't know how it's not. I

721
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: don't think that's the way music is made. Who would

722
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: you love to go into a studio with and make

723
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: a record with? Um just one example. There's just too

724
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: many examples, is what it is. Um. The way I

725
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: make music is is is not in collaboration with somebody,

726
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: And maybe that would work. I don't think so. Though

727
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, Edie and I have written some songs together,

728
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: but and we're pretty close, and it's uh, it's hard

729
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: to get the balance right when you're you know, collaborating

730
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: on writing if you're if you're just used to writing

731
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: your own songs. So there's nobody. So there's the people

732
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: that I like want to work with. Are are you know,

733
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: maybe somebody who's like a specifically great at playing a

734
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: pipe organ in a in a big cathedral, you know,

735
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: because like I did that. It wasn't a cathedral, was

736
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: big church, So I need that player. Then there's uh, oh,

737
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 1: there's just uh there's a drummers, really great jazz drummer,

738
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: Jack did John Nette and he's playing on one of

739
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: the one of the tracks, and Bobby McFerrin is singing

740
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: on in fact, that track that you just listened to.

741
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of people who are doing sounds

742
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: and playing stuff that I that I like to work with,

743
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: and I do so maybe maybe more often than you

744
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: might think, it's people ask you to be on their

745
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: record or even just participating. It goes on a bit.

746
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: One of the most vivid memories I have because I've

747
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: collected your music. I have everything downloaded him and you

748
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: name it and listen to your music all the time.

749
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: My daughter is nineteen years old and she's flipped out

750
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 1: for your music. She just loves you and loves your

751
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,959
Speaker 1: music and plays it all the time. When the SNLT came,

752
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: it's you alone, message to myself. That's it right there.

753
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: And we talked about some all times drunk, Still crazy

754
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: to all, Still crazy after all. I started crying, my woman,

755
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: I were crying because it was so beautiful. I'm not

756
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: the child o man tends to socialize. I seem to

757
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: lean on old familiar ways and I ain't no fool

758
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: ful love songs that whisper in my ears. Still crazy

759
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 1: after all these years, Still crazy after all. My thanks

760
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: to the great Paul Simon. This is Alec Baldwin you're

761
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: listening to. Here's the thing