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Speaker 1: thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know stories
Speaker 1: of things. We simply don't know the answer too. Well.
Speaker 1: Here there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Devin and Steve, and this week
Speaker 1: we're going to tackle another hard hitting mystery. The mystery
Speaker 1: is who thought jar Jar Banks was a good idea? No,
Speaker 1: it's not. I actually think we need to do an
Speaker 1: episode on that though it's just Darth Banks. I mean
Speaker 1: we can. We'll go there someday, you and I and
Speaker 1: all three of us can take a big bottle of booze.
Speaker 1: Let's keep going here. Yeah, okay, well I know our
Speaker 1: real mystery. Then we're gonna talk about the mysterious death
Speaker 1: of Annie Burgerson, who who was a thirty year old
Speaker 1: Swedish woman who was living in Scotland in two thousand
Speaker 1: five when our mystery begins. By the way, this was
Speaker 1: suggested by our listener Mark, although he only got seven
Speaker 1: ages credit because I actually found this on my own
Speaker 1: and then I went and checked the list and his
Speaker 1: name was on there. So yeah, that's been happening to
Speaker 1: us to a lot happened last week with oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: starting to get really good at our own research. Don't
Speaker 1: tell anybody, all right, back to this, so what are
Speaker 1: we doing here? From okay? Back to our mystery. On
Speaker 1: December third, two thousand five, and he left her apartment
Speaker 1: in Edinburgh, Scotland, around one fifteen in the afternoon. Less
Speaker 1: than a day later, she was found dead on the
Speaker 1: beach at the seaside town of Prestwick, about eighty miles away.
Speaker 1: If you happen to be one of those people who
Speaker 1: lives in the country that's still clinging to the metric system,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a hundred third the kilometers. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I believe it or not, there's people who have not
Speaker 1: converted to our system. I know it is crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's we'll talk about that one someday too. So our mystery.
Speaker 1: Her body has found. The police come and get the
Speaker 1: body and investigate and did an autopsy and they concluded
Speaker 1: that Annie had drowned. Probably not an unreasonable conclusion, given
Speaker 1: that there was stuff in her lungs and uh. Then
Speaker 1: they decided that she had either committed suicide or had
Speaker 1: been an accident. Um. But her family and some of
Speaker 1: her friends think that she was murdered and her body
Speaker 1: was placed on the beach by the murderer or murderers.
Speaker 1: And of course you can give it even more juice
Speaker 1: as a CIA angle to this story. Yes, I was
Speaker 1: surprised when I came across that. Yeah, I'm surprised. Actually
Speaker 1: it could be a CIA. It might be m I
Speaker 1: five or m I six. Also yeah, yeah you too.
Speaker 1: Also yeah, uh, let me give you a little background
Speaker 1: on Annie. Uh. As I said, she was thirty years old,
Speaker 1: native of Sweden. Of course, she spoke quite a few languages,
Speaker 1: including English, and but it's one of the reasons she
Speaker 1: wanted to live in Scotland for a while is to
Speaker 1: perfect her English. Scotland the best place to learn definitely
Speaker 1: the best place to learn English. Yeah, but our Scottish
Speaker 1: listeners have said so themselves. Yeah, I couldn't understand about
Speaker 1: is that what they said? Okay? Anyway, Annie, of course,
Speaker 1: according to family and friends, was intelligent, good nature, very talkative,
Speaker 1: unlikable and you started to get that feeling from reading
Speaker 1: about her of course the same time. Of course, and
Speaker 1: that's your dead daughter. You're not gonna say, yeah, there
Speaker 1: is a lot of information that is curated by her family.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh. This was her third
Speaker 1: visit to Scotland and she had, reportedly I heard, had
Speaker 1: just found a job or was on the break of
Speaker 1: finding a job, and uh, so that was good news
Speaker 1: for her. In the days leading up to Annie's death,
Speaker 1: she did displace a little bit of unusual behavior. She
Speaker 1: lived in a place called the Lytton Court Apartments, and
Speaker 1: she had her own room, but that she shared a
Speaker 1: kitchen with several other people. And I remember of the
Speaker 1: staff at the apartments who goes by the name of Jane.
Speaker 1: I've never found out what her last name was. Reported
Speaker 1: to police that Annie had been depressed a bit about
Speaker 1: a relationship with a man. Annie reportedly also told somebody
Speaker 1: else at the apartments whose name I don't know, or
Speaker 1: that she quote had to take care of something unquote,
Speaker 1: and that she quote had made a decision that might
Speaker 1: change her life unquote. So we don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: Um well, I mean, we like to read ominous into
Speaker 1: things like this, but we in retrospect especially Yeah, but
Speaker 1: having you know, just decided, you know, just gotten a
Speaker 1: job in Scotland and maybe being considering, you know, moving
Speaker 1: their long term, that's a that's a pretty big life decision. Sure.
Speaker 1: Or maybe she decided to become an Amway rep. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or maybe she decided that she was going to do
Speaker 1: out however, you know, a six month tour there and
Speaker 1: then go home permanently. I mean, there's a million ways
Speaker 1: that it could have gone. There are life changing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe she was gonna think she was going to take
Speaker 1: care of was she was going to apply for citizenship
Speaker 1: to America. Yeah, I meant, you know, these are things
Speaker 1: it's easy to go really the dark angle, but it
Speaker 1: could literally be anything. Yeah, any given day for me,
Speaker 1: there's at least one thing that I need to need
Speaker 1: to take care of, several things, And if you if
Speaker 1: you want to be dramatic, almost anything I do during
Speaker 1: the day could drastically change the course of my life. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: Clip your nails a little too close and you die.
Speaker 1: It happens. Forget to shaven. Yeah, my legs by the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you save any legs of you only use that
Speaker 1: job as a leg model, Steve Listen, it's lucrative on
Speaker 1: December second, and he went to the Scotch Whiskey Heritage Center.
Speaker 1: Yeah she did. Yeah that sounds like a place, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: It really does, actually, but she had had a job
Speaker 1: there earlier in the year, and uh she was. Once
Speaker 1: she was there, she ran into a friend and former
Speaker 1: co worker named Kat Dlmo, and Kat said that they
Speaker 1: sat down and had a chat and Kat said that
Speaker 1: Annie seemed her normal, cheerful self. Reportedly, though Annie's mood
Speaker 1: changed what she got a phone call for her mother,
Speaker 1: Guya at six fift PM. Annie had had some previous
Speaker 1: phone conversations with her dad and her brother and they
Speaker 1: had both gotten the impression that something was wrong. Now,
Speaker 1: it might not be any big deal because I mean,
Speaker 1: if she was a little depressed over some guy, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe she was not quite as cheerful as would also
Speaker 1: have been. I mean, again, if we go back to
Speaker 1: the theory that she was planning to move to Scotland,
Speaker 1: that's something she was already in Scotland well, but I
Speaker 1: mean like move long term instead of saying I'm coming
Speaker 1: back in a couple of months. That's something that's kind
Speaker 1: of ner racking to tell your parents, especially if you're
Speaker 1: close with them. Well, she's also a thirty year old woman,
Speaker 1: and I know a lot of people who's who are
Speaker 1: very close with their parents, and sometimes saying mom, cut
Speaker 1: it out doesn't go so well, and the parents immediately
Speaker 1: presumed that there's something wrong. Yeah, eight year old woman.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you try to assert yourself, you know, to your parents,
Speaker 1: and they take well, they take that as you know,
Speaker 1: when you're trying to be an adult. They're like, but
Speaker 1: you're still on my baby, so let me help you.
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, that's a thing that happens, and
Speaker 1: it's hard, especially if you maybe have been living at
Speaker 1: home part time, I presume, and she lived in Sweed
Speaker 1: and she was staying with her parents. Yeah she was,
Speaker 1: so I mean that it's hard. It can be hard
Speaker 1: to drink any kind of news like that. So again
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to continue to put the normal spin
Speaker 1: on things. Yeah, this is the stuff is not necessarily sinister. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway, her mother was concerned, so she called, but
Speaker 1: Andy said she couldn't talk because she was hanging out
Speaker 1: with her friend Kat. And then Guya was a little
Speaker 1: persistent and asked Annie what was wrong, and Andie said,
Speaker 1: quote you have to respect this, but I have to
Speaker 1: take care of myself unquote. At least that's that's what
Speaker 1: you see on the internet everywhere. But I listened to
Speaker 1: an interview Guya herself, and what she says in that
Speaker 1: interview is quote, you have to respect this, but I
Speaker 1: have to take care of this myself. So I have
Speaker 1: to take care of this myself. A little bit a
Speaker 1: little bit different, Yeah, but that's what actually said that
Speaker 1: Annie said, Right, So I don't know what how sinister
Speaker 1: at all is. I don't think it really is actually
Speaker 1: and not if not everybody wants to talk about everything.
Speaker 1: Maybe she was depressed about some guy, but she didn't
Speaker 1: really want to talk to her mother about it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean do you want to talk about stuff like
Speaker 1: that with your parents sometimes? But not. Yeah, there were
Speaker 1: some other strange things that happened, like her mother said
Speaker 1: that Annie, even though in her apartment she had a
Speaker 1: phone and she had a cell phone, she would actually
Speaker 1: leave the apartment to go to a phone booth and
Speaker 1: call home from the phone booth. I wonder if it
Speaker 1: was cheaper. I was about to say, you know, cell phones,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is ten years ago international calling, because
Speaker 1: I obviously you guys family overseason. It was obscene and
Speaker 1: I would use a phone card, but you know there
Speaker 1: are there are some phones that couldn't you You couldn't
Speaker 1: dial even she didn't get great reception at her you know,
Speaker 1: if you don't get good section, Yeah, then you don't
Speaker 1: want to risk getting cut off if you're making this
Speaker 1: really expensive across to a landline. Yeah. Yeah, So again
Speaker 1: this is not necessarily first shattering, but we're doing really
Speaker 1: good at just discounting everything. Seriously, God, you guys, come on,
Speaker 1: we have to cut it out. We gotta a cool
Speaker 1: mystery here. And then one of the weird thing happens again. Again.
Speaker 1: I have no idea that this had anything to do
Speaker 1: with Andy's death. But she met a guy at a
Speaker 1: nightclub called Mood and the guy wasn't called the nightclub.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, this guy, this guy said that he was
Speaker 1: a rugby player from from New Zealand named Martin Leslie.
Speaker 1: And there really is a Martin Leslie from New Zealand.
Speaker 1: He plays rugby. I played for Scotland for for five
Speaker 1: years from like three. Just have to be this dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but but yeah, he actually he actually hadn't
Speaker 1: been to Scotland in that year, a couple of years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he hadn't been there for a while. Oh so that
Speaker 1: was just masquerading as he was apparently masquerading. It might
Speaker 1: be if she she hung out there a lot at
Speaker 1: this nightclub, and she was also kind of into rugby players,
Speaker 1: so it might it might well have been to some
Speaker 1: other guy that kind of knew her was accorinted to
Speaker 1: with her, said said to this guy, hey, just lie
Speaker 1: to her, telling you to play rugby, show fall for
Speaker 1: that everything. It might have been. Yeah, but I mean
Speaker 1: I guess on the other hand, right, you don't have
Speaker 1: to lie, so the lie doesn't have to be so grandiose.
Speaker 1: You can just say, like, yeah, I play rugby. But
Speaker 1: she was yeah, and she was exactly that would be better.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, no, you obviously have not
Speaker 1: been a drunken dude in a nightclub before. Who the
Speaker 1: bigger the lie, the better Bernie Stinson or like what No?
Speaker 1: But I um, but there there. I mean, you see
Speaker 1: these things where these people will say I met Shaquille
Speaker 1: O'Neal and here's my photo with him when we were
Speaker 1: at the mall, and it was so awesome, and they tweeted,
Speaker 1: and Shaquillo would right back. I mean Chicago playing a
Speaker 1: game right now. So I don't know who that dude is.
Speaker 1: Like this, it's a cardboard it's a cardboard cut out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but no, it happens where people impersonate others all the
Speaker 1: time because adoration feels wonderful. YEA true. It's a good
Speaker 1: way to get you know what, if you're a guy.
Speaker 1: It really it does kind of serve a very base need.
Speaker 1: Yeah need, need, wont want desire, let's say desire. Apparently
Speaker 1: they did get along though, because they did spend several
Speaker 1: hours talking and yeah in the club and then the
Speaker 1: guy had a glass of champagne and he kept trying
Speaker 1: to get her to drink it and yeah, really seriously,
Speaker 1: that's like that that catchy yeah rufi, that's the first
Speaker 1: thing that pops into my impersonating somebody famous and here
Speaker 1: drink this drink drinking I only have one of these drinks. You.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna drink a drink, it's got to be this,
Speaker 1: I mean not the other thing, right is especially like
Speaker 1: it's one thing to be like, I'll let me get
Speaker 1: you a drink. Oh I have this glass stream change
Speaker 1: do you want to know, Okay, I'll drink it. What
Speaker 1: do you want? Or over the course of the night,
Speaker 1: a couple of different glasses of the champagne, but to
Speaker 1: be like, here's this one glass, drink it. Yeah, apparently,
Speaker 1: and he was sensible enough to not take it when
Speaker 1: she hadn't actually seen the glass, being you know, booze
Speaker 1: obviously smart girl. Yeah yeah, so yeah, so she didn't
Speaker 1: get roofing. Uh. And she also I didn't mention Danny
Speaker 1: was a swimmer. She was a good swimmer, and she
Speaker 1: swammed regularly at a pool in Edinburgh. And this Martin
Speaker 1: Leslie guys showed up on December one unexpectedly at the
Speaker 1: pool where she was swimming. I don't know that there's
Speaker 1: anything sinister about that. Again, she probably mentioned to him
Speaker 1: that she swam at this particular pool, and he probably
Speaker 1: just wanted to come by and look at her in
Speaker 1: her swimsuit. And well, I mean, or she mentioned offhand
Speaker 1: that she swim at this particular pool. But that's the
Speaker 1: only he didn't you get a phone number or anything
Speaker 1: like that, and you wanted to talk to her again,
Speaker 1: and that was the only way, Yeah, that's possible getting
Speaker 1: con tact with her. Yeah, he's looking like maybe that's suspicious. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I mean dual purpose, right, I mean this guy probably
Speaker 1: wanted to see her in a swim series. I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how you overcome. Oh and by
Speaker 1: the way, I totally lied to you about who I am.
Speaker 1: Now that I'm here at the pool, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that lie had to ever have been overcome. Oh
Speaker 1: you're thinking that he might have tried to stay in character,
Speaker 1: that he continued the ruse, or even maybe he should
Speaker 1: be going to the place, you know, somebody works out
Speaker 1: at to meet them again, and staying in in character
Speaker 1: seems like quite a length. You don't really have to
Speaker 1: stay in character. You're just Martin Leslie rugby player, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean if she's never met Martin Leslie, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: seems like it seems like a stretch and focusing on something.
Speaker 1: It's also two thousand five, and it's not as though,
Speaker 1: I mean, the internet is a thing, right, But it's
Speaker 1: not as though, you know, everybody's immediate impulses to go
Speaker 1: out and google this person and learn everything about them,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's quite possible that she hadn't
Speaker 1: done any research that he was still easily passing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she actually in her apartment she did not have an
Speaker 1: internet connection. That was not so it was not a typical,
Speaker 1: especially I mean in England or I'm sorry, in Europe
Speaker 1: in two thousand five. So she would go to internet
Speaker 1: cafes and so you know, she it's one of those
Speaker 1: deleos or if she had limited time in the computer,
Speaker 1: she had better things to do than look up Martin Leslie. Yeah. Probably.
Speaker 1: And let's let's talk to about Andie's last day. That
Speaker 1: would have been December December third, Yeah, her last So
Speaker 1: he went to the sorry not to really at home,
Speaker 1: but he went to there or the pool, the pool
Speaker 1: the two days before, two days before she disappeared. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Her last setting in Edinburgh was at one fifteen when
Speaker 1: she left her apartment, although the timing of that has
Speaker 1: been called into question because she couldn't have gotten to
Speaker 1: the Glasgow Central station where she actually showed up a
Speaker 1: two fifteen and she had left that late apparently what
Speaker 1: I hear. Yeah, there's all kinds of timeline problems with this,
Speaker 1: but there's also problems where the time was recorded by
Speaker 1: her bank in the time zone the bank was in yeah,
Speaker 1: which is an hour earlier than Yeah, exactly. So I
Speaker 1: just want to say that, so there's people will listen
Speaker 1: to this, they understand that. And yeah, the things we
Speaker 1: can probably count on our like CCTV and yeah, and
Speaker 1: and the Glasgow Central station where the A t M
Speaker 1: recorded the time she tried to make a withdrawal. Um,
Speaker 1: yeah she tried to twice. Yeah, she had insuficient funds.
Speaker 1: And so was that I mean, is that something that
Speaker 1: strikes people as odd or is that not surprising to
Speaker 1: people generally? It's not necessarily surprisingly. Yeah, well she was unemployed.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's forget. So funds were probably a
Speaker 1: little short, but she she had she wasn't a habit.
Speaker 1: She carried this thing called Filo Facts, which was basically
Speaker 1: like a day planner. Yeah, she have one of those. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't have one of those. You don't
Speaker 1: have one of those? Okay, Yeah, so she kept money
Speaker 1: in there. She was found when they found out she
Speaker 1: had money on her I assumed in her pocket, her
Speaker 1: pants pockets or something. She was just trying to take
Speaker 1: out more than she wanted. She wanted some more money
Speaker 1: for some reason. Yea, Um, it's it's believed that she
Speaker 1: hopped onto the two thirty train to Prestwick from Glasgow
Speaker 1: and her next sighting is at three fifteen on a
Speaker 1: close circuit TV camera. There's an overhead walkway that connects
Speaker 1: the Prestwick railway station with the Prestwick airport because there's
Speaker 1: a four lane carriageway in between the two. And is
Speaker 1: that that's and that's the typical travel time for like
Speaker 1: that right about an hour? Okay? Ask you? Is that
Speaker 1: the timetable never made sense to me because when I
Speaker 1: looked at up from where she lived and maybe you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that traffic was being taken into consideration
Speaker 1: when I did this search, but it was by car,
Speaker 1: it was over an hour and a half trip and
Speaker 1: from where she lived to where she would to the airport, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that was always there was always a bit of
Speaker 1: of hinky nous with this timetable because she is, well,
Speaker 1: if she's getting on the train, um, the train takes
Speaker 1: even longer though, right, but in Glasgow from Glasgow to Prestwick,
Speaker 1: how long does it take from Glasgow to Prestwick by car?
Speaker 1: According to the what I ran, it was an hour
Speaker 1: and forty minute. Yeah, and it was almost three hours
Speaker 1: by bus and two and a half hours by train,
Speaker 1: and she was reported to have known she didn't have
Speaker 1: a way to get there by car. So I bring
Speaker 1: this up because I don't have an answer to it.
Speaker 1: But this always struck me as odd, is that she
Speaker 1: leaves from Glasgow and then she goes she goes all
Speaker 1: the way over to press Wick, which is on the coast,
Speaker 1: on the West coast, and it seems like it was
Speaker 1: a long way. According to the Glasgow Presswick Airport website UM,
Speaker 1: from Glasgow Central Station to the airport UM, the train
Speaker 1: time is fifty minutes, but if you were looking from
Speaker 1: where she was living, it would have taken much longer.
Speaker 1: That's what that's where I'm looking from, right, So it
Speaker 1: would have taken much longer because she it also took
Speaker 1: her that hour to commute from where she was living
Speaker 1: to the Glasgow Central station. She was seen leaving at
Speaker 1: one fifteen and she didn't get to Glasgow until two
Speaker 1: thirty to fifteen, so then it probably counted for that
Speaker 1: time as well, which would make sense for the our
Speaker 1: forty travel time. Right if she went by car, if
Speaker 1: she went by car directly from the place she was living.
Speaker 1: And part of the weirdness with this timetable is the
Speaker 1: person at her apartment who said they saw her at
Speaker 1: a certain time. We don't we don't know if that's
Speaker 1: actually solved. Yeah, that's not solid. But I would say
Speaker 1: that the timetable from Glasgow to Presswick makes sense via train.
Speaker 1: But I I would agree that if I looked it
Speaker 1: up from where she was living in Edinburgh, it would
Speaker 1: take probably that long at least. Yeah, So anyway, we
Speaker 1: have many mysteries here. But she's arriving at the airport.
Speaker 1: It's cut at three fifteen on the overhead and then
Speaker 1: she from the walkway, you go down an escalator and
Speaker 1: into the main terminal. Terminal is kind of long, kind
Speaker 1: of east west, and uh, she's captured at three sixty
Speaker 1: and fifty five seconds later coming out the other end
Speaker 1: of the terminal. That this is This has cost a
Speaker 1: little bit of head scratching because and I think it
Speaker 1: might just be that the that the the timers or
Speaker 1: the clocks in the in the city are just a
Speaker 1: little bit off. But yeah, they're saying she would have
Speaker 1: had to have gotten all gone all the way down
Speaker 1: the escalator and through the terminal in fifty five seconds
Speaker 1: and apparently she could not have done that unless she
Speaker 1: was running, which she might have been doing. Um, you
Speaker 1: see people running an airports all the time, although it's
Speaker 1: it's not as recommended a thing to do these days
Speaker 1: as it used to be. And usually you see them
Speaker 1: running through security right like after they've gotten through security,
Speaker 1: because they're running from to make their connections. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: seems less likely. And as I mentioned at three sixty,
Speaker 1: she's captured again at CCTV TV footage coming out of
Speaker 1: the terminal where there is a short term parking lot
Speaker 1: car park to you Brits h and three minutes later
Speaker 1: caught on the same camera coming back into the terminal,
Speaker 1: heading back the way she came. So she spent three
Speaker 1: minutes in the parking lot. Did she have a luggage
Speaker 1: with her? Yeah? She had. She had I think a
Speaker 1: shoulder bag and another bag, but not like a roller bag,
Speaker 1: nothing like that, just to kind of day bags or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's apparent to me that she I think she
Speaker 1: may be meant to go back to Sweden. Was everybody
Speaker 1: ticket but she didn't stay in the airport. Yeah, according
Speaker 1: to and his friend theory. Yeah, but anyway, she apparently
Speaker 1: on the tape looked angry and again nobody knows why.
Speaker 1: And at three twenty she's captured on a video again
Speaker 1: getting back onto the walkway back over to the trail
Speaker 1: the train station. Uh so she spent a grand total
Speaker 1: of five minutes in the airport, three of it in
Speaker 1: the parking lot, and then just left without buying a ticket,
Speaker 1: because that's presumably what she would have been there to do,
Speaker 1: buy a ticket and catch her flight, but apparently she
Speaker 1: decided to postpone that. But we do know that she
Speaker 1: planned on going back to Sweden because she had made
Speaker 1: an appointment with her hairdresser for December five, which in Sweden.
Speaker 1: In Sweden, Yeah, she also had her passport with her
Speaker 1: and she did have the bags, and so yeah, it
Speaker 1: looks like she was planning on going back. That trump's
Speaker 1: my theory. My theory was that fake rugby player guy,
Speaker 1: what's his name, Martin, Yeah, that he had said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm rich and well traveled, let's go away together, and
Speaker 1: that she you know, he said I'll meet you at
Speaker 1: this spot. I'll have driven my car and he didn't show,
Speaker 1: and she was angry and left. But three minutes would
Speaker 1: be an awful short amount of time to give up
Speaker 1: and leave in frustration. I mean unless yeah, unless she
Speaker 1: had googled his name, or I mean, unless she his
Speaker 1: ruse was up. I don't know. I mean it's I
Speaker 1: don't know, he's making out with another lady in his car.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, you know, it was you know, everybody.
Speaker 1: The prevalence theory is that she was there to meet somebody, Yeah,
Speaker 1: who wasn't there. No other possibility is that somebody was
Speaker 1: supposed to leave a car for her car wasn't there,
Speaker 1: Or maybe somebody was supposed to leave something in or
Speaker 1: under a car. So hey, you know, go to go
Speaker 1: to this ford Blue Sudan and then you know, on
Speaker 1: the left front tire, I'll leave something. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: going to leave ann ounce of smack for you or
Speaker 1: something like that. I don't know, yeah, or me. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe she was running late, that's why she Maybe she
Speaker 1: was running through the terminal. Yeah, why she hustled through,
Speaker 1: and she was you know, she was meant to meet
Speaker 1: that person at you know, to thirty or something like
Speaker 1: that or three third connections, she asked her, and so
Speaker 1: she went to see if they were still there. They
Speaker 1: weren't there, turned around and left, which would make sense.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you were late, you wouldn't wait for someone, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would leave and then try and contact them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's entirely possible. Unfortunately, we just don't know, and
Speaker 1: she didn't after that, didn't spend any time at the
Speaker 1: airport though she's sixty. Of her time at the airport
Speaker 1: was spent in the parking lot, so that appears the
Speaker 1: parking lot was her real true destination there. The rest
Speaker 1: of the time at the airport was spent, you know,
Speaker 1: zipping through the terminil one way and then zipping back
Speaker 1: the other way. Yeah, so we don't know. And then
Speaker 1: after that, it appears and he headed towards the town
Speaker 1: of press Wok on foot, although nobody really knows exactly
Speaker 1: because she was captured again at on a c CCN
Speaker 1: camera at four or five on Station Road, which is
Speaker 1: about halfway between the airport and where the body was found.
Speaker 1: But the image is kind of blurry and it might
Speaker 1: well have not been any and the police expert took
Speaker 1: a look at the video, as he said, it was
Speaker 1: impossible to tell so well. Part of the problem is
Speaker 1: is that that was right around sunset yeah, right after
Speaker 1: sunset ranch I think since it was three that day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's obviously getting dark and that so the camera's
Speaker 1: not going to have a good clear image. And do
Speaker 1: we know how long it would have reasonably taken someone
Speaker 1: to walk from the Prestwick Airport to Prestwick proper? I
Speaker 1: would say, like, was if that if that was her
Speaker 1: at four or five on the CCTV, would it have
Speaker 1: been really like that would have been a reasonable amount
Speaker 1: of time for it to have taken her to walk
Speaker 1: that far. Yeah, it's about forty five minutes. I think
Speaker 1: I think she probably could have walked the distance forty
Speaker 1: five minutes. It looked like it was two miles or so.
Speaker 1: I mean it was around It wasn't like it was
Speaker 1: a straight shot. Yeah, so it was kind of a
Speaker 1: round about way to go. Yeah, but she could have easily,
Speaker 1: But again we don't know that that's her. She was
Speaker 1: spotted again by eyewitnesses at four thirty on the beach,
Speaker 1: although I discount this one pretty heavily, but there were
Speaker 1: two guys standing on the sea wall. They saw somebody
Speaker 1: standing at the water's edge not really been looking at
Speaker 1: to see. The tide was low and the beach of Prestwick.
Speaker 1: You guys probably know this is extremely flat and it
Speaker 1: goes out for love, goes at a long, long way,
Speaker 1: like I would say, to the tune of a couple
Speaker 1: hundred yards at a really super low low tide. You
Speaker 1: know you can it can actually yeah, I can actually
Speaker 1: be two yards. Yeah, extremely Yeah, the witness is estimated
Speaker 1: the distance at this point was a hundred fifty yards
Speaker 1: and again because of the time for thirty which is
Speaker 1: forty minutes after sunset. Yeah, at a hundred and fifty yards,
Speaker 1: I really don't see how we can put any weight
Speaker 1: on this at all. Yeah, that's hard. I mean she
Speaker 1: did have some pretty distinguishing features, right you really really
Speaker 1: long blonde blonde hair, and you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: that's the most common thing to see in Scotland. But
Speaker 1: also you can't you can't say with certainty, oh I
Speaker 1: saw blonde, you know, I saw somebody that was what
Speaker 1: looked like really long blonde hair. You still can't say
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, in mind, if it's a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty yards out, she is against what is remaining of
Speaker 1: the setting sun. She's she's going to be frontlets. So
Speaker 1: you're all, yeah, so That's why I agree with Joe,
Speaker 1: it's very questionable on this this week. Yeah, and certainly
Speaker 1: it's a beach. You know, what do people do. People
Speaker 1: go to the beach and they hang out, They look
Speaker 1: at the sunset and standing around. Yeah, so if it
Speaker 1: could have been anybody. And then there's another witness, again unnamed.
Speaker 1: This is per Guya heard the mother who saw her
Speaker 1: talking to two men at the sea wall at around
Speaker 1: the same time. So again kind of unreliable. So our
Speaker 1: our last really solid sighting is at three when she
Speaker 1: left left her on the airport. Yeah, but as far
Speaker 1: as the guys who who saw her standing hundred fifty
Speaker 1: yards out, the local police took that into account and
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons they theorized that suicide was
Speaker 1: possibly what she did. That seems like I'm sure we'll
Speaker 1: talk about this in theories, but I just want to
Speaker 1: go on record right now. Is saying that's a really rough,
Speaker 1: weird way to commit suicide. Well, it is, it's it's
Speaker 1: and I think it's reading a lot into it. Just
Speaker 1: because somebody's standing looking out to see does that mean
Speaker 1: they're suicidal? I mean, who doesn't do that? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: did that too, in fact, that's I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: normal human thing to do, right you guys, you're standing
Speaker 1: there looking at something that's kind of pretty and then
Speaker 1: you're lost in thought. Yeah it is. Yeah, But I
Speaker 1: think I was listening to an interview with the Scottish
Speaker 1: guy named Tom Minogue. I don't know if you've heard
Speaker 1: of him. He's had a few things to say about
Speaker 1: this case, but he said in this interview he said,
Speaker 1: the Scottish police really like to conclude suicide. Really a
Speaker 1: lot about the Scottish. Yeah, that was Irish, that was
Speaker 1: Ireland though, Oh you're right, yeah, but he's haided. He's
Speaker 1: had a number of cases, but one of the ones
Speaker 1: that stood at the best was Billy Harrison. And this
Speaker 1: guy named Billy Harrison was a young man who was
Speaker 1: found He was drunk and he was found dead in
Speaker 1: a Glasgow alley and he had five separate head wounds
Speaker 1: in the back of his head, and the police concluded
Speaker 1: it was a suicide and the family, the family pressed
Speaker 1: hard to get reclassified as murder and have it investigated,
Speaker 1: and the police fought resisted it heavily, and they believed
Speaker 1: that he had he had fallen down and banged his
Speaker 1: head and then drunkenly gotten back up, falling down again
Speaker 1: banged the back of it. Yeah, eventually they did reclassify
Speaker 1: it as as suspicious as suspicious death suspicious. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of funny in a horrible sort of way.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do know that the Scots are are
Speaker 1: known for pessimism, or I think I think they call
Speaker 1: it dour moods. That's that's just one of the biggest
Speaker 1: stereotypes of Scottish people in general. So well, maybe you
Speaker 1: never know. I mean, it does seem that people like
Speaker 1: to hear that about the Fins. Also, you know here
Speaker 1: will be stereotypical again, but I think part of it
Speaker 1: might have to do with like living way the hell
Speaker 1: up there so far north at the thing you hear
Speaker 1: it about, or again too because it's so rainy and stuff.
Speaker 1: We are, Yeah, so we don't know anything about what
Speaker 1: she was up to between between three twenty in the
Speaker 1: afternoon and eight thirty in the morning the following day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why do you have my woman's out walking her
Speaker 1: dogund your body. Uh And for those of you who
Speaker 1: are gonna want to go out and google maps, it's
Speaker 1: look on it was on the beach near Grange Mirror Road.
Speaker 1: That's g R A N G E m U I R.
Speaker 1: And there's a parking lot right there, which is if
Speaker 1: you're if you're the mind that she was murdered somewhere
Speaker 1: else and her body was placed there well to be handy,
Speaker 1: handy little parking lot spot right there. Yeah, So the
Speaker 1: body was found faced up. Her jacket and travel bags
Speaker 1: were nearby. And they didn't discover this right away, but
Speaker 1: a red and white police that she had been wearing
Speaker 1: under her jacket was missing, and her filo facts was missing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't figure out that the Police Angle hotel. Months later,
Speaker 1: the police, the police finally came across the c c
Speaker 1: C be at age of her going into and leaving
Speaker 1: the airport, and that's when they spotted the red and
Speaker 1: white fleece under her jacket. And so that was never explained.
Speaker 1: What happened to that? Was it particularly windy, No, because
Speaker 1: the other things would have blown away to well. I
Speaker 1: was just thinking, okay, can I use a bit of rationale.
Speaker 1: You guys know that I for a long time commuted
Speaker 1: around this city by bus and train and when it's
Speaker 1: not cold, but it's rainy. I've got a bunch of
Speaker 1: layers on it. Suddenly I get too hot. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: strip down off one of the under layers and put
Speaker 1: everything back on. So then she stuffs in her bag.
Speaker 1: It gets washed away, Like I can see that very
Speaker 1: simply as took it off, but put everything else back
Speaker 1: on that had been there beforehand. But the fact that
Speaker 1: her file fox FILO fax was also missing, is it
Speaker 1: is weird? Yeah, that's a little more serious. Well, I
Speaker 1: gotta be okay, we've talked about this before. Somebody's walking
Speaker 1: along and they're not the most scrupulous individual, and here's
Speaker 1: a body, and let me go through the pockets, take
Speaker 1: the whole bag if it's right there, because that is
Speaker 1: very obvious. I don't. I don't think she kept the
Speaker 1: file off facts in the bag. I mean maybe she did.
Speaker 1: She might have kept in her pocket, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: if it was in her but either way, somebody could
Speaker 1: have done a quick inspection. So oh, there's cash in
Speaker 1: this five finger discount walking down the road. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: she also kept money in there if somebody had seen her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: As I said earlier, and autopsy was done, her lungs
Speaker 1: were found to be congested the air pass. She just
Speaker 1: contained froththy material, so they concluded drowning fair enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was also a depression otherwise in her skin otherwise
Speaker 1: not described in great detail, some bruising on their right temple,
Speaker 1: abrasions on the left arm, and two contusions on the
Speaker 1: right arm. Police put these down to contact with objects
Speaker 1: in the water, so maybe I don't know. Toxicology testing
Speaker 1: showed no drugs in any system and a little bit
Speaker 1: of alcohol about point oh two. That's really not a
Speaker 1: lot for um, because I looked it up. Actually, Um,
Speaker 1: for somebody who's like a hundred and twenty pounds, which
Speaker 1: I think she probably was, that's one serving of an
Speaker 1: alcoholic drink, right, so a glass of wine, a bottle
Speaker 1: of beer, or the one a jigger of alcohol an
Speaker 1: hour and forty minutes before. Yeah. Yeah, Although so it's
Speaker 1: not a lot of though for Annie, who was a
Speaker 1: very light drinker, it could have it could have been.
Speaker 1: It could have been. It didn't get her falling down drink.
Speaker 1: But it also it also raises the question of like
Speaker 1: when did that happen. Let's you don't know she got
Speaker 1: she could have got to drink at four thirty or
Speaker 1: at nine PM or but I mean yeah, but also
Speaker 1: if she killed herself, you know, as stated right, because
Speaker 1: she was looking longingly into the ocean at four thirty,
Speaker 1: when did she have time to get that drink? She
Speaker 1: didn't an hour and forty minutes ago, she was running
Speaker 1: through a terminal the airport. I mean, yeah, exactly. So
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a bit of a question mark
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, I was going to mention that in
Speaker 1: a series. Actually, I'm sorry, I'm pulling you. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh okay, accorded to her mother, DNA from another person
Speaker 1: was found on Annie's hands. So that's why she thinks
Speaker 1: she was murdered elsewhere, is because the DNA should have
Speaker 1: been washed off by immersion in the sea water. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: think yeah, it should have, especially if she was in
Speaker 1: the water for long enough for there to have been
Speaker 1: bruising and abrasions and contusions and depressions. Right, if she
Speaker 1: was getting tossed around in the water enough for it
Speaker 1: to bang her body up a little bit, you would
Speaker 1: think that that would definitely wash the majority of stuff off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think about it is I'm not sure where the
Speaker 1: DNA stuff comes from. That's what I was gonna ask
Speaker 1: is if there was DNA on her lips, that would
Speaker 1: be one thing, But it could have been anywhere in
Speaker 1: her hands, under her fingernails, in internally, So that begs
Speaker 1: the question of where was it Because then being in
Speaker 1: the water, the amount of time that it takes for
Speaker 1: to degrade and or wash away she snificantly changed. It
Speaker 1: would seem that the only place that it could reasonably
Speaker 1: have been found would be internally. Had she yeah, I would,
Speaker 1: I would count under her nails as I guess. Yeah,
Speaker 1: although again I'm not entirely sure about the DNA being found.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like Goody was talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: comparing the DNA in her hands with with no no
Speaker 1: suspects perhaps that kind of thing. But how do you
Speaker 1: do that? Because if it's on her hands, it's already
Speaker 1: by definition, it's already contaminated. Yeah, so I mean it's
Speaker 1: not it's not not really any good for investigatory purposes
Speaker 1: unless you can, you know, do a couple matched markers.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know how you I don't even
Speaker 1: know how you get d NA off. Somebody tell you
Speaker 1: the truth. I get their own DNA, of course, but
Speaker 1: how do you tell but they've got somebody else's DNA
Speaker 1: even on them. I mean, I don't understand DNA testing,
Speaker 1: so I can't even I would presume that it would
Speaker 1: mean that it would have to have been very different,
Speaker 1: i e. Like male, because you can certainly tell from
Speaker 1: DNA if it's male or female. N F females happens
Speaker 1: to have male DNA on her hands, you would presume
Speaker 1: that's foreign usually. Oh yeah, but goo yeah said that
Speaker 1: it was a woman's I don't know. I have no idea,
Speaker 1: but I don't know anything about teach. I have no
Speaker 1: idea that when you know, if you're the Scottish police
Speaker 1: and you're investigating it's a suicidal swimmer, why you would
Speaker 1: even bother testing for DNA have somebody's hands anyway? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: But there was a second second autopsy. Andy's body got
Speaker 1: back to Sweden December sixteen. Uh and undertakers there, I
Speaker 1: found more extensive bruising on the right arma side and
Speaker 1: behind your right ear. Uh. And they also acquired a
Speaker 1: sample of Andy's bone marrow and sent it to a
Speaker 1: professor in Strasburg to look at. And he found evidence
Speaker 1: of freshwater algae in the bone marrow, which is interesting.
Speaker 1: I had no idea how freshwater algae can get into
Speaker 1: your bone marrow. It's kind of weird, but that's super weird.
Speaker 1: Apparbably it was there. That led to speculation that Andie
Speaker 1: was drowned somewhere else and then dumped on the beach.
Speaker 1: But I've actually read testimony from other experts who say
Speaker 1: that it's much more likely that she got the alogay
Speaker 1: from just drinking contentment tap water, and that it probably
Speaker 1: edited her system long before her death. It would there
Speaker 1: would that's what I'm taking bone marrow. It would take
Speaker 1: a long time to get there. That's why I had
Speaker 1: another reason. I totally yeah, it was in the water
Speaker 1: this Yeah, No, I don't seem strang. And she didn't
Speaker 1: have any broken bone. Yeah. I would also say that
Speaker 1: it's not really that startling to say there were more
Speaker 1: bruises found on her, given that there was more time
Speaker 1: than the blood would have settled and she was moved,
Speaker 1: and it's not I mean, it's not that startling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it might be. Bruising is one of those things that
Speaker 1: you can pretty I trust an initial medical examiner on
Speaker 1: because it's real hard to miss. You wouldn't be like,
Speaker 1: oh surprise, two months later, there's this bruise that we
Speaker 1: totally missed on her side. I mean, it's an easy
Speaker 1: thing to notice. It's one thing to say, oh, we
Speaker 1: didn't notice that her heart arteries were mildly inflamed. It's
Speaker 1: another to say, there was this huge bruise on her
Speaker 1: side that we totally missed, right right, Yeah, these things
Speaker 1: you're really pretty obvious. And I could be wrong. It's
Speaker 1: different from place to place, but the things that I've
Speaker 1: read about it is, you know, they do standard examinations
Speaker 1: and there's methods to determine if they're subcutaneous bruising, to
Speaker 1: try and pick that up, because of course the bruise
Speaker 1: won't really grow. So I don't know, it's hard to
Speaker 1: say what the differences are from especially from country to country,
Speaker 1: let alone what we're used to, which is from state
Speaker 1: to state. That's true. And also let's not forget the
Speaker 1: corners who actually, you know, we're doing the autopsy and
Speaker 1: in Scotland they were speaking you know, you've you've seen
Speaker 1: it on TV. They speaking to a microphone and they
Speaker 1: were speaking in what Scottish broke, so whoever was transcribing
Speaker 1: probably couldn't understand half what they were saying, kidding, guys,
Speaker 1: I love you, guys. I love Scottish brogue. Since I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just reading on Google again because you know that's
Speaker 1: my thing. Will that, according to it a fair number
Speaker 1: of studies. This one I'm reading is on pub M
Speaker 1: d SO or pub med. Sorry that is that's a
Speaker 1: reasonably solid source. So it's that they've done studies and bruises,
Speaker 1: bruise like discolorations can appear after death. I've heard the
Speaker 1: same thing, So I mean it's reasonable to say not
Speaker 1: to beat a dead horse or anything. Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: I don't beat away. But nonetheless, Annie's family is not
Speaker 1: convinced that she even died from drowning. Apparently they're still
Speaker 1: tissue samples in the possession of both the Scottish and
Speaker 1: Swedish governments, but they're refusing to release them for examination
Speaker 1: by independent experts. And I don't know why, because they
Speaker 1: could put this whole thing to rest. Frankly, they may
Speaker 1: very well. I hate to sound insensitive, but not care
Speaker 1: to talk about this with other mysteries where we say
Speaker 1: it would be really easy if they would just do
Speaker 1: this thing, but for them it's closed. They don't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't maybe, and they're probably totally convinced that it
Speaker 1: just drowning. I mean, it's not not outrageous. It was
Speaker 1: from a dead body on the beach, I mean with
Speaker 1: water and the lungs. Yeah, it does appear that the
Speaker 1: the investigation in the in the autopsy were kind of cursory.
Speaker 1: It's it does seem like they could have probably been
Speaker 1: a little more thorough. Uh. It really does look like
Speaker 1: the police just immediately assumed that it was drowning and
Speaker 1: it was either an action or suicide, and they'd never
Speaker 1: really pursued it as even possibly being a murder, which
Speaker 1: I think is probably fair enough. Even though it's quite
Speaker 1: likely that it is just an accidental drowning. They probably
Speaker 1: should have kept their minds a little more open. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's another mystery. Annie had waist length hair, and when
Speaker 1: the body got back to Sweden almost all of it
Speaker 1: had been cut off. But it was cut off in
Speaker 1: a really random way too. It wasn't cut off even
Speaker 1: it was cut off in in locks. They just grabbed
Speaker 1: a bunch and cut it off, and so she wound
Speaker 1: up with some some locks of hair coming from a
Speaker 1: scalp about five centimeters out and others about fifteen sixteen centimeters.
Speaker 1: It really makes me really weird. It makes me think
Speaker 1: of a you know, a little boy that gets hold
Speaker 1: of his his sister's barbie and just starts hacking the
Speaker 1: hair with That's exactly what it makes because it always
Speaker 1: kind of has that random, tough appearance that it's totally
Speaker 1: twisted six serial killer kind of behavior. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was like, I know you're making frankly, it is a
Speaker 1: little weird. Well, yeah it is. No, it's it's definitely weird. Uh,
Speaker 1: And I can't explain it away. No, I can't really either.
Speaker 1: But at the at the first autopsy in Scotland, they
Speaker 1: reported in the report that her hair was long because
Speaker 1: it was long, So I just mentioned it was weird
Speaker 1: and weird appearance because even I mean, she had really
Speaker 1: really long hair, so even cutting you know, inches off
Speaker 1: of it, it would still appear long. Yeah, but kind
Speaker 1: of cutting so much, that's only five centimeters coming out
Speaker 1: of that. That's not long now. So yeah, and he
Speaker 1: didn't cut her hair obviously, if she was murdered, the
Speaker 1: murderer couldn't have cut it. The funeral undertakers in London
Speaker 1: and said they cut a little bit off of her
Speaker 1: hair to make it look more presentable. They said four
Speaker 1: or five centimeters. That's like two inches. By the way,
Speaker 1: for US Americans, it's centimes is one point nine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she was and it was due for a haircut,
Speaker 1: so she probably did has some money even ends probably
Speaker 1: and so they just they just trimmed him off a
Speaker 1: little bit. You would think, just in one fell swoop
Speaker 1: there shouldn't have been a yeah, and so that that's
Speaker 1: what they said it And then they shifted off the
Speaker 1: swede and somewhere between there and when the family saw
Speaker 1: the body, somebody grabbed a bunch of hair. That's really weird.
Speaker 1: It's like somebody wanted to make a wig. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I kind of wonder is that one of the things
Speaker 1: that's required when you transport a body internationally is that
Speaker 1: you embalm it. And I don't know that necessarily. The
Speaker 1: folks that did the medical examination on the body and
Speaker 1: the folks had embombed it were the same. So I
Speaker 1: wonder if somebody you kind of hit the nail on
Speaker 1: the head where I was heading here, Joe, is that
Speaker 1: they went, well, we did our job here, and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm a copple hotter. Box short and I know I
Speaker 1: got this wig business on the side, look at that.
Speaker 1: Or you can sell it, yeah, and just pack it
Speaker 1: off and well nobody'll ever be able to track it down.
Speaker 1: Nobody will you even notice, except that in this case
Speaker 1: they totally did. I mean except that, like, it's so
Speaker 1: much easier to just gather in one handful and cut
Speaker 1: and it turns out okay, I mean, like I've donated
Speaker 1: hair one word greed. I guess it's just easier and
Speaker 1: easier to manage when you are shipping it off. Then
Speaker 1: you just like, you don't send a bag of hair.
Speaker 1: It has to be you don't, but I do. Okay,
Speaker 1: well you don't have hair, So this is why I
Speaker 1: keep saying enough bag falls of it. Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 1: is weird. Also, the other question I guess I have
Speaker 1: is um, when you evalm a body, can you do
Speaker 1: an autopsy on it? You do the autopsy prior in
Speaker 1: autopsy happened in Sweden on December, and that secondary autopsy
Speaker 1: would have suffered because of the fact that the body
Speaker 1: had it embolved and the body it also just deteriorated
Speaker 1: because it have been a couple of weeks. So okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the body got to Am I correcting this, Joe?
Speaker 1: Or am I confusing this with another story that her
Speaker 1: or some of her internal organs were actually in bags,
Speaker 1: they were no longer in the body. Is that right?
Speaker 1: Or am I mixing that up with a different embalming story.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember what this one, actually, I
Speaker 1: don't remember. I remember there was there was some weirdness
Speaker 1: about the whole embalming process, and of course, whenever you
Speaker 1: do it, you screw up anything. But they do that.
Speaker 1: I've read because there's another case that I'm really interested
Speaker 1: in that has to do with some weirdness with autopsies.
Speaker 1: But they pull the organs out and bag them and
Speaker 1: stick them back in the body cavity. Okay, but that's
Speaker 1: a typical that's a normal thing. Okay. I remember reading
Speaker 1: that and kind of had a WTF moment. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: you don't want like, you've got all these organs and
Speaker 1: they've got fluids and stuff, and they're not going to
Speaker 1: get the embalming fluid in them, so okay, you just
Speaker 1: stick them in bags. But totally makes sense. God something
Speaker 1: creepy about that, Oh yeah, a little bit, Yeah, definitely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I'm going to get cremated. Yeah, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: that might get cremated tooth. That's that's hundreds of years
Speaker 1: down the line, So I'm not gonna worry about it again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, again as I messing before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I made it packed with the devil. That's what that
Speaker 1: portrait is. Yeah, Satan. Let me give a shout out
Speaker 1: to Satan. Yeah, christ if I left facts was missing,
Speaker 1: because again she never went anywhere without it. She did
Speaker 1: keep money in it. So if she was murdered, maybe
Speaker 1: robbery was the murder, the murder motive? What else happened?
Speaker 1: And then in the aftermath of the death and everything,
Speaker 1: some other strange things happened. Um, Andy's mom went out
Speaker 1: to her hotmail account and found that everything had been wiped.
Speaker 1: All the emails had been deleted since and received. Do
Speaker 1: we have any sense if that was a typical it
Speaker 1: turns out, you know, and a lot of the accounts
Speaker 1: of this you read that, and then but again and
Speaker 1: the the interview with Yeah that I listened to, she
Speaker 1: said that a lot of stuff have been deleted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like I guess for me, I'm I'm just guessing
Speaker 1: that Annie was a fellow type a personality given that
Speaker 1: she has a file effects that she carries around with
Speaker 1: her and like most most type of personalities don't do that.
Speaker 1: And I am a militant inbox zero person. I file
Speaker 1: away or delete all of my emails. If there's more
Speaker 1: than like three or four emails in my account, I
Speaker 1: get really stressed out. You guys know this because you
Speaker 1: manage an email account with me. It's not starred. It's
Speaker 1: got to be filed immediately, And so it wouldn't surprise
Speaker 1: me to know that that's just how she managed her
Speaker 1: email account. Anyway, Well, yeah, I don't recount when you
Speaker 1: saw my email account that has emails from ten in
Speaker 1: the just the inbox section. Still, yeah, I mind that
Speaker 1: way too, But they're red. I'm keeping them. I know
Speaker 1: what they are. But the look on your face going
Speaker 1: files or nowhere, Now that's probably a good system. Maybe
Speaker 1: someday I'll adopt that a thousand unready emails. But anyway, anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I listened to that interview with good
Speaker 1: because because every account you readed this, her hotmail account
Speaker 1: was totally wiped and her but she just said that
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff was missing, a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: that she expected should be there was not there, So okay,
Speaker 1: I go either way on that. Yeah, her friend for
Speaker 1: some reason was was wanting to pull her phone records,
Speaker 1: and she because she had been talking back and forth
Speaker 1: with Annie between Sweden and Scotland, and she said that
Speaker 1: phone calls in both directions were just not recorded. They
Speaker 1: were not they were. Yeah, that's right, they just weren't. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean I guess, and they were. They were definitely
Speaker 1: from the cell phone. I mean I guess presumably too,
Speaker 1: you would know what phone number you were calling, but
Speaker 1: I guess we talked about her using the pay phone
Speaker 1: a lot and now national calls, so I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But still, even the incoming calls should have been the
Speaker 1: incoming calls phone should have been on the self. So
Speaker 1: why that's not there? I mean, the only thing that
Speaker 1: I could even remotely think that would explain it is
Speaker 1: because porting your phone number was becoming available at that
Speaker 1: time where you could take it from Carrier AID to
Speaker 1: Carrier B. But that is just such a random thing
Speaker 1: to have just coincided with when she did it that
Speaker 1: I doubt that's the case. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So yeah, the phone records you missing. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but that this adds up to another all the stuff
Speaker 1: to missing emails and missing phone calls, and then Maria
Speaker 1: Maria isn't Jansen or Johnson, her friend Maria Johnson started
Speaker 1: getting creepy phone calls. You picked the phone rangs, You
Speaker 1: pick it up and there's silence on the other end.
Speaker 1: And so was that her friend that asked for the
Speaker 1: phone records? How that connects? Okay, Sorry I should have
Speaker 1: messtioned that earlier, and I think I mentioned Gloria Johnson's
Speaker 1: name earlier. Yeah, that was a friend that was had
Speaker 1: talked to her a lot on the phone and wasn't
Speaker 1: looking for the phone records, and yeah, they were gone missing.
Speaker 1: She was getting these mysterious phone calls. And uh, eventually
Speaker 1: somebody put forward a theory that sort of like ties
Speaker 1: all this stuff up, why this weird stuff was happening,
Speaker 1: And which is that Annie Bergerson's full name is Anti
Speaker 1: Christina Bergson, and there's a journalist whose name is Christina Borgesson.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's spelled exactly the same, except it
Speaker 1: doesn't have the two little dots over the oh at
Speaker 1: the beginning there. So yeah, so Christina and Christina Bergson
Speaker 1: and Christina Borgson who was a journalist who had been
Speaker 1: investigating extraordinary renditions that were being run through the Prestwick Airport.
Speaker 1: In other words, c A planes were landing in Prestwick, refueling,
Speaker 1: stopping over and and then taken off to go on
Speaker 1: their way. Um and right, do I need to explain
Speaker 1: extraordinary rendition? Yes? Okay? Uh? Rendition is so like the U. S.
Speaker 1: Government takes in the custody at a known terrorist, for example,
Speaker 1: they might find themselves a little short on jail space
Speaker 1: and so or maybe they've got to get a cell
Speaker 1: ready for him. So while they're getting a cell redecorated,
Speaker 1: we might we might ask our friends Saudias or maybe
Speaker 1: the Jordanians or the Egyptians or somebody to just look
Speaker 1: after them for a little while. And then you know,
Speaker 1: of course, while they are at custody over there, then
Speaker 1: they might decide to ask a few questions punctuated by
Speaker 1: the occasional application of a hot poker kind of thing
Speaker 1: or the extraction of a fingernail. So that's what rendition is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what rendition is. Yeah, some light drowning yet a
Speaker 1: little water boarding, You know the Yeah, and some some
Speaker 1: overhydration if you will. Yeah, so that's rendition um. And
Speaker 1: then uh, of course eventually we finished with the cell
Speaker 1: remodel and then we get them back. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I guess I, for all of my like buying
Speaker 1: into government conspiracy theories, didn't realize that was the thing
Speaker 1: that we did. We didn't know that. I know, I didn't.
Speaker 1: Steve's looking at me like I'm a crazy person. I'm
Speaker 1: not a synth. I haven't been replaced. I just didn't
Speaker 1: know that happened. I mean, it makes total sense now
Speaker 1: that you say it, But I didn't know that that
Speaker 1: was a thing. Well, you know, that's the whole thing is, like,
Speaker 1: you know, we can't really do that stuff over here,
Speaker 1: so we just we just say, hey, guys, why don't
Speaker 1: you take care of these guys for a while. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go get a coke from the machine. Anybody want anything? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a coke from the machine. Now it's
Speaker 1: at the far end of the building and I won't
Speaker 1: be able to hear the thing that's going on in here. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So's so anyway, that's the whole story pretty much. Mysterious
Speaker 1: death creepy email and phone mail and phone call stuff,
Speaker 1: and s C I A a journalist who had the
Speaker 1: same name. And the theory is that it was a
Speaker 1: case of mistaken identity hits like a CIA or M
Speaker 1: I five AM I six hit squad took out any thinking, yeah,
Speaker 1: thinking that she was just journalist Christina Borgson. Did they
Speaker 1: look similar at all? Well, I'll talk about I'll talk
Speaker 1: about that. I was gonna say, are we gonna go
Speaker 1: straight into that theory? Where do you want to start here? Well,
Speaker 1: let's start with number of theories. Yeah, we can start
Speaker 1: with suicide by drowning, um, because that's the official line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, she obviously didn't commit suicide immediately
Speaker 1: and when she was seeing at the seashore for thirty
Speaker 1: which by the way, that probably wasn't her. But uh,
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that she was suicidal. And uh, of
Speaker 1: course that's a weird way to kill yourself. It is,
Speaker 1: it's been done. Um. But and she would she couldn't
Speaker 1: have waited out to see at that time because, like
Speaker 1: you said earlier, she had alcohol her blood streams. She
Speaker 1: had to go somewhere and get a drink. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: she couldn't have done it at for thirty and then
Speaker 1: you go somewhere, you get a drink, an hour and
Speaker 1: a half passes because you know it's on safe to
Speaker 1: swim drunk anything you can have started to come back
Speaker 1: in because a real four thirty it was LOWD time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I feel like when the tide is coming in,
Speaker 1: it's harder to kill, right. It's easier if there's like
Speaker 1: a rip tide and it's going out, just dragged out
Speaker 1: to scene and that's like fine, whatever, you're done, But
Speaker 1: if the tide's coming in, it seems like it would
Speaker 1: be harder. That's just like a layman's probably really uneducated
Speaker 1: version of how things work. But also she was a
Speaker 1: really strong swimmer, and people's you know, instinct to live
Speaker 1: does kick in. It's a very documented it kicks in. It.
Speaker 1: I haven't struggled she would have had to wade a
Speaker 1: long way out and be really determined. Yeah, right, Like really,
Speaker 1: I don't believe. I have a hard time believing that
Speaker 1: that's what she did, because, like we've talked about, automatic
Speaker 1: reactions just kick in even though you're probably closed and
Speaker 1: it's your clothes are soaked and they're going to weigh
Speaker 1: you down so shy allow that it seems like it
Speaker 1: would be easy to just dog paddle all the way
Speaker 1: in and then suddenly be able to walk again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the sea wall, Joe, you and I talked about
Speaker 1: this yesterday. The sea wall at its high point there
Speaker 1: where she was found, is what a meter high? So well,
Speaker 1: now it's more than a meter high, I mean because
Speaker 1: typically at high tide it's usually about a meter d. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's where I got. So we'll just say this. The
Speaker 1: sea wall is a meter and a half couple of high,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, well, but if the only a meter deep,
Speaker 1: it's only a meter d still drown yourself in that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean that deadly dihydrogen mon oxide. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean if she came back and say, wanted to
Speaker 1: kill herself, she could have done it. But again, she
Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken her bags with her, and she would
Speaker 1: have it and she probably would have been she would
Speaker 1: have gotten slashed, right, I mean, you would assume she
Speaker 1: would have have way more alcohol or so she gonna
Speaker 1: kill yourself, you might as well go out and style
Speaker 1: party down. But if you're not a big drinker, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't think that that necessarily would be the
Speaker 1: mindset I mean, I would see, Okay, if from what
Speaker 1: I know about Annie, I would say, being as you said,
Speaker 1: kind of the type A. She's a strong swimmer. For
Speaker 1: whatever reason she decided to end it all in this situation,
Speaker 1: she would swim. She would swim to the horizon exactly
Speaker 1: because that you're so tired that even when your instinct
Speaker 1: kicks in, you can't make it back. But then the clothes.
Speaker 1: I'm a swimmer. The last thing I want to have
Speaker 1: on is a bunch of clothes because I can't get
Speaker 1: as far that. If she's that far out, doesn't it
Speaker 1: seem unreasonable that her body would have washed ashore as
Speaker 1: early as that morning, should have sunk and then washed
Speaker 1: ashore rightly saying that she was smart enough to come
Speaker 1: back at high tide and jump in. Then it starts swimming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But then I mean, because the mermaids aren't gonna put
Speaker 1: her clothes back on her for modesty, saying, I mean,
Speaker 1: it just it doesn't. The whole thing doesn't make sense
Speaker 1: to me, is where I'm going. I'm sure it wasn't suicide. No, Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: let's move on to our next year. If you guys
Speaker 1: are anything more. Yeah, and I think it's I think
Speaker 1: that suicide is a pretty lame explanation, So it could
Speaker 1: have been an accident. So let's let's assume that Annie
Speaker 1: went and had a drink or two and came back
Speaker 1: at a later time. I'm willing to say the bid
Speaker 1: with that B A C. Two drinks over the course
Speaker 1: of an hour, is it really the most because right
Speaker 1: after you die this correct me if I'm wrong, Right,
Speaker 1: But once you've dead, your your B a C stops degrading, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: your because it's not processing anything. So it would have
Speaker 1: been the maximum that she really would have had is
Speaker 1: like two drinks two hours ago. Yeah, So she's not
Speaker 1: she's not hammered, but she's feeling maybe a little tipsy maybe. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So later on that night, it's high tide, there's some
Speaker 1: water down there, and he goes down to the sea wall,
Speaker 1: jumps up on it and shouts, I'm the kick of
Speaker 1: the world, and then loses her balance and falls in
Speaker 1: the water. Average temperature of the sea in the area
Speaker 1: at that time of year is about eight degrees cytigrade
Speaker 1: or forty six degrees fahrenheit, which is cold. Yeah, quite
Speaker 1: like you know the average temperature of the organ coast. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: But humans have a reflex which causes them to inhale
Speaker 1: sharply if you're suddenly unexpectedly immersed in very cold water. Uh.
Speaker 1: It kills a lot of rafters in kayaks. And I
Speaker 1: personally experienced it myself one time. Have you experienced that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was in a raft and it was like April
Speaker 1: on the Sandy River and the water was damn cold,
Speaker 1: and we got dumped in the water and I just
Speaker 1: want like that and luckily my face was above water.
Speaker 1: But damn that. Oh yeah, yeah, but a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of people, it doesn't work out so well.
Speaker 1: It kills a lot of people. So something like that happened,
Speaker 1: and she accidentally fell into the water or somebody pushed
Speaker 1: her into the water or whatever. It's entirely possible any
Speaker 1: even even though being a strong swimmer, could have inhaled
Speaker 1: a bunch of water and just drowned. Well, there's also
Speaker 1: to to run along that. And let's not just say
Speaker 1: necessarily that she was at the sea wall, because we're
Speaker 1: making a presumption that she was at the sea wall
Speaker 1: because somebody saw that person who has been identified with found.
Speaker 1: She was found close to the sea wall. But bear
Speaker 1: with me here. The thing that I looked at is
Speaker 1: so at that time of year, they're getting about four
Speaker 1: inches of rain, and I pulled up the maps, the
Speaker 1: flood maps for that area, and just north of where
Speaker 1: she's found is the Power Burn, which is a smaller
Speaker 1: creek river that runs underneath the airport and then pops
Speaker 1: out kind of north of where she was. And then
Speaker 1: there's the bigger river, which now I cannot think of.
Speaker 1: I know the creek name, but I can't think of
Speaker 1: the bigger river that's right there. But it's entirely possible
Speaker 1: that she could have been, you know, walking over bridge
Speaker 1: or goof around on the banks for whatever reason, and
Speaker 1: went in there. That water would have been high enough
Speaker 1: to wash her out into the surf. And in that area,
Speaker 1: the sea tends to run from south to north, so
Speaker 1: she's in the bigger river, the one that's south of
Speaker 1: where she was found. She would have gone in the water.
Speaker 1: She would have been washed out across the delta into
Speaker 1: the lower the low water because it's not that high,
Speaker 1: and then the current would have taken her north as
Speaker 1: it pushed her inland until as it recedes, it leaves
Speaker 1: her on the beach. If there a bridge over that river,
Speaker 1: there are, so it would be possible, if we were
Speaker 1: going to go back to suicide, it would be possible
Speaker 1: that she is I was gonna say, unless she zip
Speaker 1: tied her bags to her, there's no way that she
Speaker 1: could have kept them that whole journey. But it is
Speaker 1: entirely possible that she could have gone in not into
Speaker 1: the sea, but into a relatively quickly flowing river, and
Speaker 1: then gone out to see and then made that circular,
Speaker 1: kind of C shaped trip back. Except except for the
Speaker 1: jacket in the bags. Ye seems that the bags are
Speaker 1: the goofy bit in this whole story, no matter what
Speaker 1: way you slice it, except for the one theory that
Speaker 1: we haven't gone to or one of the theories, the
Speaker 1: bags are the odd ball. But I wanted to point
Speaker 1: out that she could have gone into a river and
Speaker 1: not necessarily into the ocean, not as possible except for
Speaker 1: the bags. Yeah, Yeah, the bags, damn bags, Yeah, the bags.
Speaker 1: The bags. Actually, Um, I think really kind of argue
Speaker 1: against almost every theory here but one. But let's go
Speaker 1: out of some more theories. Next theory is murder. Well,
Speaker 1: there's more than one murder. This is one of those, right,
Speaker 1: like murder heading withheadings. Yeah, use bullet points this time
Speaker 1: to read in my file of facts the right way.
Speaker 1: I you know, I sometimes like to use bullet points,
Speaker 1: but sometimes in word they could just be kind of
Speaker 1: a nuisance, you know what I'm saying. You just don't
Speaker 1: know how to use them more properly. Probably true. But
Speaker 1: let's go out all right. Let these will be quick
Speaker 1: for our first one. There's stream sub possibilities. Let me
Speaker 1: get these out and out in the front now. Murder,
Speaker 1: robbery or robbery murder if you prefer that. Next one
Speaker 1: random murdered by psycho okay, and next one mistaken identification
Speaker 1: and murdered by the CIA or am I six. So
Speaker 1: those are three categories of murder here, unless you guys
Speaker 1: can think of any others that kind of covers it.
Speaker 1: So that would explain murder robbery man, that would explain
Speaker 1: why the file effects is missing. If somebody is say,
Speaker 1: ran into her in the bar and noticed that she
Speaker 1: like opened up her file effacts and pulled out cash
Speaker 1: to pay for her drink um and then befriended dir
Speaker 1: and then went for a stroll on the sea wall
Speaker 1: and then eventually he um say, shoves her off the
Speaker 1: sea wall into the water and grabs her jacket with
Speaker 1: the filo facts, pulls the file effects out, throws that
Speaker 1: acting to the water. After and he didn't mean to
Speaker 1: kill her. She's just down there floundering because she's inhaled
Speaker 1: a bunch of water, so he doesn't realize how much
Speaker 1: trouble she's in. He throw us the bags in after
Speaker 1: it takes off and takes off real fast, and she drowns,
Speaker 1: and of course he never comes forward and says, hey,
Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to kill her.
Speaker 1: I sort of stole her stuff. But and to give
Speaker 1: a little bit of credence to this, she has proven
Speaker 1: herself to be, at least to a certain degree, gullible
Speaker 1: enough to take whatever people say it faces value. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: Her friends, her friends said that she she's a really
Speaker 1: sweet person, really nice or it was a really sweet,
Speaker 1: nice person, a little a little bit too trusting, And
Speaker 1: so a situation like that, I can see where somebody
Speaker 1: accidentally didn't really mean to even kill her, just shoved
Speaker 1: her into the water and then beat feet out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know people like that, who are They've
Speaker 1: gotten ripped off too many times that just because they
Speaker 1: believe people and they rust people, and lo and behold,
Speaker 1: people are what they say they are. Yeah, when the
Speaker 1: son of the deposed ruler of Nigeria emails you personally,
Speaker 1: you give him the money that he's asking for. This
Speaker 1: is the reason that I've installed so many virus programs
Speaker 1: and malware programs on a certain elderly family member's computer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: good idea. Yeah, I always give my bank account number.
Speaker 1: It's really it's really weird. No, let's just stop. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: there there is by the way, there's a website devoter
Speaker 1: to this whole thing. I've told you about it. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's our next one. Random murdered by psycho. Well, it
Speaker 1: happens on a regular basis to people all the time.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's why we have a podcast, Yeah,
Speaker 1: fodder for this entire thing. Yeah and so yeah, so
Speaker 1: some psycho meet true the bar and I clever something
Speaker 1: like that, and then invites you to go for a
Speaker 1: stroll on the beach and then and you know, this
Speaker 1: would help to explain the presence of the bags, you know,
Speaker 1: right near her body. Uh So he the tides coming
Speaker 1: in and holds her under, and yeah, it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: completely all the way in, but they just wait up
Speaker 1: for the shore and they shoves her down and shoves
Speaker 1: her face into the water and drows her. You know,
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible to be consistent with the bruises on
Speaker 1: her body if you've got enough of a surprise on
Speaker 1: her and had leverage on honor and everything. She couldn't
Speaker 1: really struggle all that much. But she didn't. She wasn't
Speaker 1: a terribly large girl. She wasn't, yea, she was pretty
Speaker 1: easy to her. Yeah, yeah, I know. If you get
Speaker 1: somebody face down in the body of water and you're
Speaker 1: a slightly larger stature and can just get on their back,
Speaker 1: they're done. I mean, because you have, like said, there's
Speaker 1: a leverage issue, there's nuns. Yeah, although you would assume
Speaker 1: that there would be some like she would have inhaled
Speaker 1: sand or something as well. You're you're you're putting logic
Speaker 1: into this, which is just sorry. Yeah, I mean, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: or you don't necessarily stand you could have shoved her
Speaker 1: face into a mud puddle and drugger to the beach.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, there's all sorts of possibilities. A fountain.
Speaker 1: Are there fountains in the area. I'm sure there are.
Speaker 1: We'll just go with that, yeah, yeah, okay, Or or
Speaker 1: a toilet at a nightclub. That's true too, Yeah, carried
Speaker 1: her outside. I don't know if she had too much
Speaker 1: stream Yeah, I know. Yeah, okay, So that one. I
Speaker 1: think that there is not much support for that, and
Speaker 1: I'd like murder robbery better. Frankly, well, yeah, either murder
Speaker 1: robbery or murder by random psycho. Both of them typically
Speaker 1: don't present any evidence, so we would have no way
Speaker 1: to know on either count. They're totally random. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, the missing filo facts tends to support the
Speaker 1: murder robbery thing, but I have to admit there's other
Speaker 1: explanations for the missing file facts. But yeah, uh. Our
Speaker 1: next murders theory mistaken identification murder. I've just looked up
Speaker 1: a picture of the supposed doppelganger, and this is what
Speaker 1: she looks like. Oh no, I know, I know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be hard for them to mistake one for
Speaker 1: the other. They are both blonde, they had the same
Speaker 1: hair color. But that's where literally they're both white women
Speaker 1: with blonde hair and that's about it about it now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Christina Christina Borgesson is a lot older and heavier, and
Speaker 1: they have much different faces, especially the jaw line. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well Christina has a bob. I haven't seen her with
Speaker 1: anything than like shoulder length hair. Annie's hair was waist length.
Speaker 1: Yeah I know. And also how did the CIA or
Speaker 1: Mi Sex or whoever know that Annie was impressed Wick
Speaker 1: because they had lu there? Well why would? But they
Speaker 1: know who she is and they know she's not the
Speaker 1: journalist Christina Borgeson that they're thinking about. Right, So she goes,
Speaker 1: she goes to the airport. A watcher spots her, reports
Speaker 1: reports back to h Q since immediately sense it hit
Speaker 1: squad depressed Wick, But how to watch her? Spot hers
Speaker 1: nothing like the journalist in question? Have you never seen
Speaker 1: any like Big Brother TV series? To know that all
Speaker 1: CCTV is monitored by a huge computer that runs facial
Speaker 1: recognition and returns names. And if you've got a new
Speaker 1: hire who says, oh that's something Christina Borgson, well that's her,
Speaker 1: she's there. We got to send a hit squad right
Speaker 1: now like that damned deficient and realistically right, it's not
Speaker 1: as though the hit squad that you send is knows
Speaker 1: who they're looking at you, just you give them the
Speaker 1: description if you're just a dumb analyst who miss mistook
Speaker 1: one person for another. Right, yeah, okay, that's the thing, right,
Speaker 1: that's the thing that's that's the thing on TV. I
Speaker 1: don't know that's the thing in real one. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fair. Yeah, you're gonna say weight on TV. They
Speaker 1: can take the CCT footage and they can enhance in
Speaker 1: hand in hand, hands hand, what's that in the mirror? Oh? InHand,
Speaker 1: that's a perfect HDTV thing. Yeah. I love that they could.
Speaker 1: They can image just like seventeen pixels and they can
Speaker 1: make it, like I say, an h D image and
Speaker 1: we will set me on fire faster than watching a
Speaker 1: TV show that does that. I was watching and just
Speaker 1: add a little suspense. It's like that, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we gotta enhance this thing, but it's gonna it's gotta
Speaker 1: grind away of doing this for a while. It's just like,
Speaker 1: gave us a really cool, suspenseful thing that will hold
Speaker 1: us over the commercial break, you know and everything. And
Speaker 1: then of course when they finally they finally materialized, oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's our coworker. Yeah, let's do what I
Speaker 1: always always loved. I was always loved twenty four because
Speaker 1: all right, let's get back to something else. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so they had no way of knowing. The only way
Speaker 1: they could have known that Annie was I pressed Wick
Speaker 1: is that they already had her under surveillance. But if
Speaker 1: they already had her under surveillance, they would have known
Speaker 1: she was not that Christina Borgson that they were looking for.
Speaker 1: Unless okay, so let's take this a different way. Maybe
Speaker 1: they did know she was there because they had led
Speaker 1: her there, because is they didn't think that she was
Speaker 1: this person, but they were trying to involve her in
Speaker 1: something else that she could have been an asset. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that she could have been in some
Speaker 1: failed scheme that I'm not even in a guess at
Speaker 1: and it went south and she was the only one
Speaker 1: who paid the price. So it may not have been
Speaker 1: them who killed her, whether it be C I A
Speaker 1: M I six, whatever Alpha numeric's super name you want,
Speaker 1: but it could have been that whoever the intended target
Speaker 1: was that she was there to interact with, did it.
Speaker 1: Because if I know anything about world intelligence, it's that
Speaker 1: Sweden and Scotland are two of the highest asset places
Speaker 1: it really are, you know. But I A and M
Speaker 1: I six they like to go everywhere, they get involved,
Speaker 1: everywhere they're not wanted. So it's entirely possible that any
Speaker 1: of these super spy or zations could have been doing something.
Speaker 1: Now again, do you think that's the case. We'll give
Speaker 1: your theory a star. Okay, the look on your face,
Speaker 1: you're gonna give me some astronomical Yeah. Uh see, I
Speaker 1: was gonna I was just gonna stick the last nail
Speaker 1: in the CIA thing because this seems to be a
Speaker 1: very popular theory out there. Well everybody. Yeah, so not
Speaker 1: only a please stop bugging my house? Yeah, dude, just
Speaker 1: too late for that. But besides the fact that, I
Speaker 1: think it would have been nearly impossible for them to
Speaker 1: mistake the two of them, the Christina Borges and herself,
Speaker 1: the journalist has said that she never investigated pressed Wick Airport.
Speaker 1: Of course she'd say that, yeah really, of course I
Speaker 1: wouldn't cop to that. Yeah, now that somebody's been killed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But the other thing about it is is that so
Speaker 1: so I'll make they're doing extraordinary rendition and they're running
Speaker 1: some of their playing sup pressed way. Uh, well, we
Speaker 1: got to cover that up, but really, why bother because
Speaker 1: it was already in the news by late two thousand five,
Speaker 1: and they really need to be killing people over this
Speaker 1: and yeah, and again Christina Borgesson, Um, I don't think
Speaker 1: she was investigating it. I was not able to find
Speaker 1: much out there about rendition by her. Well, so as
Speaker 1: she has, has this woman broke anything that was of
Speaker 1: earth shattering proportions? I mean, does she ever been in
Speaker 1: the beginning of some story that, oh my god, we
Speaker 1: would our world is completely different because we know this.
Speaker 1: She's she's one of the big proponents of the reopening
Speaker 1: the nine eleven investigations eleven or two t w A fight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: uh so, I mean, I guess in that respect maybe,
Speaker 1: But so she's an uthologist, she's a truth there, truthologists.
Speaker 1: Truth yeah what I called it, whatever you want, but
Speaker 1: they're called truths. She she originally used to be a
Speaker 1: producer for CBS News. Nick Cash aired her because she
Speaker 1: wouldn't get she just wouldn't let go of the t
Speaker 1: w A flight eight hundred story. Yeah, and so they
Speaker 1: foinally said, okay, crazy out the door and yeah, And
Speaker 1: she's still best known for for the flight eight hundred story,
Speaker 1: and that is the one she pushes a lot. I
Speaker 1: found a report Flight eight for anybody who doesn't understand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Flight eight hundred is a flight. It was a seven
Speaker 1: forty seven out of New York GfK Airport. It was
Speaker 1: in and it crashed. It exploded in mid air and
Speaker 1: crashed and the like long island sound. I think, Oh,
Speaker 1: and this is the one they say he was shot down.
Speaker 1: Some people claim that they saw missiles heading towards it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, and then it was shot down, either by
Speaker 1: by terrorists or by by the navy. The Navy was
Speaker 1: also nearby shot it down. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, I
Speaker 1: think that out of all our theories, the I think
Speaker 1: the suicide and the murder by c are the both
Speaker 1: are both just really out. They're completely out, So murder possible.
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still thinking probably accidental drowning. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: the more I think about, Like, especially when I looked
Speaker 1: at the flood maps and realize how high the waters
Speaker 1: were at the time I could see because of the
Speaker 1: sea going into the ocean when it's such a gentle slope,
Speaker 1: seemed so implausible to have done herself in. And I
Speaker 1: know the bags. Still screw this whole thing up. But
Speaker 1: I could see, based on the water levels of the
Speaker 1: rivers where something could catch somebody off guard. But I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't have a good answer for this.
Speaker 1: And the bags. The bags kind of rule out almost
Speaker 1: everything except accidental drowning. Really when you think about or
Speaker 1: the body having been dumped thereafter the fact. Yeah, why
Speaker 1: would you bother with the bags and the jacket? Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: well to make it look like she drowned, Well, I guess,
Speaker 1: but you know, you know, if you should toss him
Speaker 1: up the beach the bay, now the bags, I would
Speaker 1: leave the bags. If I was gonna fake a murder,
Speaker 1: I would dump her body in the beach and I
Speaker 1: would leave the bags at the sea wall. I would
Speaker 1: leave them up on top of shop round with you,
Speaker 1: I know, because I've got a criminal mind. I've been
Speaker 1: to the beach with him, and he will shove you.
Speaker 1: I have the waterline, it doesn't matter that it's just
Speaker 1: the foamy bit he shoves you in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you remember that last time we were over here and
Speaker 1: I hand to do that revolver and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: gy A, your fingerprints all over this. We don't do that. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, So mry sad accident. Um, do you guys
Speaker 1: have any other thoughts? No, I think we've kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: I pasched this one. I think we're good. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: all right. Hey, if you have thoughts of your own
Speaker 1: about this, and I'm sure at least some of you do,
Speaker 1: or if you knew, if you knew Annie, and you'd
Speaker 1: like to contact us, and please do. Uh. You can
Speaker 1: find us through email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Uh. Let see. You can also find us
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Speaker 1: Please polite comments, supportive, happy comments. We have a subreddit.
Speaker 1: What was that? Was that subreddit called? I kind of
Speaker 1: figured that, but I thought i'd ask. And of course
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Speaker 1: you pledge a certain amount per episode or totally optional.
Speaker 1: Don't feel like you have to do it, just helps
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Speaker 1: are gotten lazy. For everybody who has gone on Patreon,
Speaker 1: or for everybody who has gone on to the papal,
Speaker 1: thank you very appreciate. Mean to say this more often,
Speaker 1: and we don't say it really thank you. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: do appreciate you. Guys. We're gonna do something nice with you,
Speaker 1: like I don't know what say thank you on our show.
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Speaker 1: donate to your heart's content or not whatever. H So
Speaker 1: that's it for this week. You guys got any more thoughts? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean either um anyway, UM, So I guess it'll
Speaker 1: be next week we'll talk about another dead prayer and
Speaker 1: probably or something. All Right, we'll talk to you next week. Everybody,
Speaker 1: all right, Bye, everybody,