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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by aliens. Instead, it's supported

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Speaker 1: by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit

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Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more and

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Speaker 1: thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know stories

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Speaker 1: of things. We simply don't know the answer too. Well.

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Speaker 1: Here there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by Devin and Steve, and this week

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Speaker 1: we're going to tackle another hard hitting mystery. The mystery

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Speaker 1: is who thought jar Jar Banks was a good idea? No,

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Speaker 1: it's not. I actually think we need to do an

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Speaker 1: episode on that though it's just Darth Banks. I mean

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Speaker 1: we can. We'll go there someday, you and I and

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Speaker 1: all three of us can take a big bottle of booze.

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Speaker 1: Let's keep going here. Yeah, okay, well I know our

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Speaker 1: real mystery. Then we're gonna talk about the mysterious death

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Speaker 1: of Annie Burgerson, who who was a thirty year old

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Speaker 1: Swedish woman who was living in Scotland in two thousand

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Speaker 1: five when our mystery begins. By the way, this was

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Speaker 1: suggested by our listener Mark, although he only got seven

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Speaker 1: ages credit because I actually found this on my own

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Speaker 1: and then I went and checked the list and his

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Speaker 1: name was on there. So yeah, that's been happening to

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Speaker 1: us to a lot happened last week with oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: starting to get really good at our own research. Don't

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Speaker 1: tell anybody, all right, back to this, so what are

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Speaker 1: we doing here? From okay? Back to our mystery. On

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Speaker 1: December third, two thousand five, and he left her apartment

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Speaker 1: in Edinburgh, Scotland, around one fifteen in the afternoon. Less

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Speaker 1: than a day later, she was found dead on the

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Speaker 1: beach at the seaside town of Prestwick, about eighty miles away.

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Speaker 1: If you happen to be one of those people who

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Speaker 1: lives in the country that's still clinging to the metric system,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a hundred third the kilometers. Yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I believe it or not, there's people who have not

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Speaker 1: converted to our system. I know it is crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's we'll talk about that one someday too. So our mystery.

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Speaker 1: Her body has found. The police come and get the

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Speaker 1: body and investigate and did an autopsy and they concluded

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Speaker 1: that Annie had drowned. Probably not an unreasonable conclusion, given

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Speaker 1: that there was stuff in her lungs and uh. Then

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Speaker 1: they decided that she had either committed suicide or had

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Speaker 1: been an accident. Um. But her family and some of

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Speaker 1: her friends think that she was murdered and her body

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Speaker 1: was placed on the beach by the murderer or murderers.

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Speaker 1: And of course you can give it even more juice

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Speaker 1: as a CIA angle to this story. Yes, I was

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Speaker 1: surprised when I came across that. Yeah, I'm surprised. Actually

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Speaker 1: it could be a CIA. It might be m I

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Speaker 1: five or m I six. Also yeah, yeah you too.

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Speaker 1: Also yeah, uh, let me give you a little background

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Speaker 1: on Annie. Uh. As I said, she was thirty years old,

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Speaker 1: native of Sweden. Of course, she spoke quite a few languages,

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Speaker 1: including English, and but it's one of the reasons she

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Speaker 1: wanted to live in Scotland for a while is to

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Speaker 1: perfect her English. Scotland the best place to learn definitely

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Speaker 1: the best place to learn English. Yeah, but our Scottish

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Speaker 1: listeners have said so themselves. Yeah, I couldn't understand about

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Speaker 1: is that what they said? Okay? Anyway, Annie, of course,

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Speaker 1: according to family and friends, was intelligent, good nature, very talkative,

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Speaker 1: unlikable and you started to get that feeling from reading

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Speaker 1: about her of course the same time. Of course, and

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Speaker 1: that's your dead daughter. You're not gonna say, yeah, there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of information that is curated by her family.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh. This was her third

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Speaker 1: visit to Scotland and she had, reportedly I heard, had

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Speaker 1: just found a job or was on the break of

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Speaker 1: finding a job, and uh, so that was good news

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Speaker 1: for her. In the days leading up to Annie's death,

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Speaker 1: she did displace a little bit of unusual behavior. She

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Speaker 1: lived in a place called the Lytton Court Apartments, and

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Speaker 1: she had her own room, but that she shared a

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Speaker 1: kitchen with several other people. And I remember of the

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Speaker 1: staff at the apartments who goes by the name of Jane.

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Speaker 1: I've never found out what her last name was. Reported

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Speaker 1: to police that Annie had been depressed a bit about

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Speaker 1: a relationship with a man. Annie reportedly also told somebody

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Speaker 1: else at the apartments whose name I don't know, or

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Speaker 1: that she quote had to take care of something unquote,

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Speaker 1: and that she quote had made a decision that might

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Speaker 1: change her life unquote. So we don't know what that means.

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Speaker 1: Um well, I mean, we like to read ominous into

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Speaker 1: things like this, but we in retrospect especially Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: having you know, just decided, you know, just gotten a

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Speaker 1: job in Scotland and maybe being considering, you know, moving

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Speaker 1: their long term, that's a that's a pretty big life decision. Sure.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe she decided to become an Amway rep. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe she decided that she was going to do

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Speaker 1: out however, you know, a six month tour there and

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Speaker 1: then go home permanently. I mean, there's a million ways

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Speaker 1: that it could have gone. There are life changing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she was gonna think she was going to take

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Speaker 1: care of was she was going to apply for citizenship

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Speaker 1: to America. Yeah, I meant, you know, these are things

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Speaker 1: it's easy to go really the dark angle, but it

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Speaker 1: could literally be anything. Yeah, any given day for me,

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Speaker 1: there's at least one thing that I need to need

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Speaker 1: to take care of, several things, And if you if

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Speaker 1: you want to be dramatic, almost anything I do during

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Speaker 1: the day could drastically change the course of my life. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: Clip your nails a little too close and you die.

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Speaker 1: It happens. Forget to shaven. Yeah, my legs by the way, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you save any legs of you only use that

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Speaker 1: job as a leg model, Steve Listen, it's lucrative on

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Speaker 1: December second, and he went to the Scotch Whiskey Heritage Center.

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Speaker 1: Yeah she did. Yeah that sounds like a place, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: It really does, actually, but she had had a job

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Speaker 1: there earlier in the year, and uh she was. Once

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Speaker 1: she was there, she ran into a friend and former

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Speaker 1: co worker named Kat Dlmo, and Kat said that they

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Speaker 1: sat down and had a chat and Kat said that

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Speaker 1: Annie seemed her normal, cheerful self. Reportedly, though Annie's mood

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Speaker 1: changed what she got a phone call for her mother,

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Speaker 1: Guya at six fift PM. Annie had had some previous

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Speaker 1: phone conversations with her dad and her brother and they

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Speaker 1: had both gotten the impression that something was wrong. Now,

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Speaker 1: it might not be any big deal because I mean,

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Speaker 1: if she was a little depressed over some guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe she was not quite as cheerful as would also

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Speaker 1: have been. I mean, again, if we go back to

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Speaker 1: the theory that she was planning to move to Scotland,

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Speaker 1: that's something she was already in Scotland well, but I

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Speaker 1: mean like move long term instead of saying I'm coming

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Speaker 1: back in a couple of months. That's something that's kind

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Speaker 1: of ner racking to tell your parents, especially if you're

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Speaker 1: close with them. Well, she's also a thirty year old woman,

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Speaker 1: and I know a lot of people who's who are

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Speaker 1: very close with their parents, and sometimes saying mom, cut

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Speaker 1: it out doesn't go so well, and the parents immediately

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Speaker 1: presumed that there's something wrong. Yeah, eight year old woman.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you try to assert yourself, you know, to your parents,

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Speaker 1: and they take well, they take that as you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to be an adult. They're like, but

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Speaker 1: you're still on my baby, so let me help you.

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Speaker 1: And that's I mean, that's a thing that happens, and

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Speaker 1: it's hard, especially if you maybe have been living at

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Speaker 1: home part time, I presume, and she lived in Sweed

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Speaker 1: and she was staying with her parents. Yeah she was,

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Speaker 1: so I mean that it's hard. It can be hard

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Speaker 1: to drink any kind of news like that. So again

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to continue to put the normal spin

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Speaker 1: on things. Yeah, this is the stuff is not necessarily sinister. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, her mother was concerned, so she called, but

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Speaker 1: Andy said she couldn't talk because she was hanging out

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Speaker 1: with her friend Kat. And then Guya was a little

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Speaker 1: persistent and asked Annie what was wrong, and Andie said,

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Speaker 1: quote you have to respect this, but I have to

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Speaker 1: take care of myself unquote. At least that's that's what

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Speaker 1: you see on the internet everywhere. But I listened to

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Speaker 1: an interview Guya herself, and what she says in that

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Speaker 1: interview is quote, you have to respect this, but I

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Speaker 1: have to take care of this myself. So I have

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Speaker 1: to take care of this myself. A little bit a

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Speaker 1: little bit different, Yeah, but that's what actually said that

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Speaker 1: Annie said, Right, So I don't know what how sinister

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Speaker 1: at all is. I don't think it really is actually

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Speaker 1: and not if not everybody wants to talk about everything.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she was depressed about some guy, but she didn't

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Speaker 1: really want to talk to her mother about it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean do you want to talk about stuff like

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Speaker 1: that with your parents sometimes? But not. Yeah, there were

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Speaker 1: some other strange things that happened, like her mother said

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Speaker 1: that Annie, even though in her apartment she had a

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Speaker 1: phone and she had a cell phone, she would actually

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Speaker 1: leave the apartment to go to a phone booth and

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Speaker 1: call home from the phone booth. I wonder if it

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Speaker 1: was cheaper. I was about to say, you know, cell phones,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is ten years ago international calling, because

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Speaker 1: I obviously you guys family overseason. It was obscene and

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Speaker 1: I would use a phone card, but you know there

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Speaker 1: are there are some phones that couldn't you You couldn't

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Speaker 1: dial even she didn't get great reception at her you know,

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Speaker 1: if you don't get good section, Yeah, then you don't

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Speaker 1: want to risk getting cut off if you're making this

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Speaker 1: really expensive across to a landline. Yeah. Yeah, So again

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Speaker 1: this is not necessarily first shattering, but we're doing really

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Speaker 1: good at just discounting everything. Seriously, God, you guys, come on,

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Speaker 1: we have to cut it out. We gotta a cool

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Speaker 1: mystery here. And then one of the weird thing happens again. Again.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea that this had anything to do

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Speaker 1: with Andy's death. But she met a guy at a

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Speaker 1: nightclub called Mood and the guy wasn't called the nightclub.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, this guy, this guy said that he was

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Speaker 1: a rugby player from from New Zealand named Martin Leslie.

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Speaker 1: And there really is a Martin Leslie from New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: He plays rugby. I played for Scotland for for five

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Speaker 1: years from like three. Just have to be this dude.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but but yeah, he actually he actually hadn't

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Speaker 1: been to Scotland in that year, a couple of years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he hadn't been there for a while. Oh so that

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Speaker 1: was just masquerading as he was apparently masquerading. It might

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Speaker 1: be if she she hung out there a lot at

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Speaker 1: this nightclub, and she was also kind of into rugby players,

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Speaker 1: so it might it might well have been to some

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Speaker 1: other guy that kind of knew her was accorinted to

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Speaker 1: with her, said said to this guy, hey, just lie

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Speaker 1: to her, telling you to play rugby, show fall for

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Speaker 1: that everything. It might have been. Yeah, but I mean

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Speaker 1: I guess on the other hand, right, you don't have

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Speaker 1: to lie, so the lie doesn't have to be so grandiose.

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Speaker 1: You can just say, like, yeah, I play rugby. But

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Speaker 1: she was yeah, and she was exactly that would be better.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, no, you obviously have not

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Speaker 1: been a drunken dude in a nightclub before. Who the

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Speaker 1: bigger the lie, the better Bernie Stinson or like what No?

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Speaker 1: But I um, but there there. I mean, you see

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Speaker 1: these things where these people will say I met Shaquille

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Speaker 1: O'Neal and here's my photo with him when we were

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Speaker 1: at the mall, and it was so awesome, and they tweeted,

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Speaker 1: and Shaquillo would right back. I mean Chicago playing a

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Speaker 1: game right now. So I don't know who that dude is.

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Speaker 1: Like this, it's a cardboard it's a cardboard cut out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but no, it happens where people impersonate others all the

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Speaker 1: time because adoration feels wonderful. YEA true. It's a good

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Speaker 1: way to get you know what, if you're a guy.

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Speaker 1: It really it does kind of serve a very base need.

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Speaker 1: Yeah need, need, wont want desire, let's say desire. Apparently

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Speaker 1: they did get along though, because they did spend several

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Speaker 1: hours talking and yeah in the club and then the

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Speaker 1: guy had a glass of champagne and he kept trying

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Speaker 1: to get her to drink it and yeah, really seriously,

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Speaker 1: that's like that that catchy yeah rufi, that's the first

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Speaker 1: thing that pops into my impersonating somebody famous and here

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Speaker 1: drink this drink drinking I only have one of these drinks. You.

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Speaker 1: If you're gonna drink a drink, it's got to be this,

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Speaker 1: I mean not the other thing, right is especially like

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to be like, I'll let me get

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Speaker 1: you a drink. Oh I have this glass stream change

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Speaker 1: do you want to know, Okay, I'll drink it. What

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Speaker 1: do you want? Or over the course of the night,

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Speaker 1: a couple of different glasses of the champagne, but to

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Speaker 1: be like, here's this one glass, drink it. Yeah, apparently,

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Speaker 1: and he was sensible enough to not take it when

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Speaker 1: she hadn't actually seen the glass, being you know, booze

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Speaker 1: obviously smart girl. Yeah yeah, so yeah, so she didn't

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Speaker 1: get roofing. Uh. And she also I didn't mention Danny

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Speaker 1: was a swimmer. She was a good swimmer, and she

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Speaker 1: swammed regularly at a pool in Edinburgh. And this Martin

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Speaker 1: Leslie guys showed up on December one unexpectedly at the

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Speaker 1: pool where she was swimming. I don't know that there's

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Speaker 1: anything sinister about that. Again, she probably mentioned to him

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Speaker 1: that she swam at this particular pool, and he probably

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Speaker 1: just wanted to come by and look at her in

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Speaker 1: her swimsuit. And well, I mean, or she mentioned offhand

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Speaker 1: that she swim at this particular pool. But that's the

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Speaker 1: only he didn't you get a phone number or anything

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Speaker 1: like that, and you wanted to talk to her again,

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Speaker 1: and that was the only way, Yeah, that's possible getting

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Speaker 1: con tact with her. Yeah, he's looking like maybe that's suspicious. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean dual purpose, right, I mean this guy probably

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Speaker 1: wanted to see her in a swim series. I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how you overcome. Oh and by

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Speaker 1: the way, I totally lied to you about who I am.

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Speaker 1: Now that I'm here at the pool, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that lie had to ever have been overcome. Oh

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Speaker 1: you're thinking that he might have tried to stay in character,

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Speaker 1: that he continued the ruse, or even maybe he should

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Speaker 1: be going to the place, you know, somebody works out

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Speaker 1: at to meet them again, and staying in in character

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Speaker 1: seems like quite a length. You don't really have to

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Speaker 1: stay in character. You're just Martin Leslie rugby player, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean if she's never met Martin Leslie, Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: seems like it seems like a stretch and focusing on something.

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Speaker 1: It's also two thousand five, and it's not as though,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the internet is a thing, right, But it's

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Speaker 1: not as though, you know, everybody's immediate impulses to go

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Speaker 1: out and google this person and learn everything about them,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's quite possible that she hadn't

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Speaker 1: done any research that he was still easily passing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she actually in her apartment she did not have an

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Speaker 1: internet connection. That was not so it was not a typical,

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Speaker 1: especially I mean in England or I'm sorry, in Europe

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Speaker 1: in two thousand five. So she would go to internet

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Speaker 1: cafes and so you know, she it's one of those

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Speaker 1: deleos or if she had limited time in the computer,

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Speaker 1: she had better things to do than look up Martin Leslie. Yeah. Probably.

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Speaker 1: And let's let's talk to about Andie's last day. That

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Speaker 1: would have been December December third, Yeah, her last So

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Speaker 1: he went to the sorry not to really at home,

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Speaker 1: but he went to there or the pool, the pool

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Speaker 1: the two days before, two days before she disappeared. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Her last setting in Edinburgh was at one fifteen when

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Speaker 1: she left her apartment, although the timing of that has

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Speaker 1: been called into question because she couldn't have gotten to

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Speaker 1: the Glasgow Central station where she actually showed up a

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Speaker 1: two fifteen and she had left that late apparently what

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Speaker 1: I hear. Yeah, there's all kinds of timeline problems with this,

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Speaker 1: but there's also problems where the time was recorded by

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Speaker 1: her bank in the time zone the bank was in yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is an hour earlier than Yeah, exactly. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to say that, so there's people will listen

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Speaker 1: to this, they understand that. And yeah, the things we

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Speaker 1: can probably count on our like CCTV and yeah, and

293
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Speaker 1: and the Glasgow Central station where the A t M

294
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 1: recorded the time she tried to make a withdrawal. Um,

295
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,280
Speaker 1: yeah she tried to twice. Yeah, she had insuficient funds.

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Speaker 1: And so was that I mean, is that something that

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Speaker 1: strikes people as odd or is that not surprising to

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Speaker 1: people generally? It's not necessarily surprisingly. Yeah, well she was unemployed.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's that's forget. So funds were probably a

300
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Speaker 1: little short, but she she had she wasn't a habit.

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Speaker 1: She carried this thing called Filo Facts, which was basically

302
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,000
Speaker 1: like a day planner. Yeah, she have one of those. Yeah,

303
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Speaker 1: I mean I don't have one of those. You don't

304
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Speaker 1: have one of those? Okay, Yeah, so she kept money

305
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Speaker 1: in there. She was found when they found out she

306
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Speaker 1: had money on her I assumed in her pocket, her

307
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 1: pants pockets or something. She was just trying to take

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Speaker 1: out more than she wanted. She wanted some more money

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Speaker 1: for some reason. Yea, Um, it's it's believed that she

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Speaker 1: hopped onto the two thirty train to Prestwick from Glasgow

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Speaker 1: and her next sighting is at three fifteen on a

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Speaker 1: close circuit TV camera. There's an overhead walkway that connects

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Speaker 1: the Prestwick railway station with the Prestwick airport because there's

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Speaker 1: a four lane carriageway in between the two. And is

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Speaker 1: that that's and that's the typical travel time for like

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Speaker 1: that right about an hour? Okay? Ask you? Is that

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Speaker 1: the timetable never made sense to me because when I

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Speaker 1: looked at up from where she lived and maybe you know,

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00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that traffic was being taken into consideration

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Speaker 1: when I did this search, but it was by car,

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Speaker 1: it was over an hour and a half trip and

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Speaker 1: from where she lived to where she would to the airport, Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that was always there was always a bit of

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Speaker 1: of hinky nous with this timetable because she is, well,

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Speaker 1: if she's getting on the train, um, the train takes

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Speaker 1: even longer though, right, but in Glasgow from Glasgow to Prestwick,

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Speaker 1: how long does it take from Glasgow to Prestwick by car?

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Speaker 1: According to the what I ran, it was an hour

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Speaker 1: and forty minute. Yeah, and it was almost three hours

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Speaker 1: by bus and two and a half hours by train,

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Speaker 1: and she was reported to have known she didn't have

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Speaker 1: a way to get there by car. So I bring

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Speaker 1: this up because I don't have an answer to it.

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Speaker 1: But this always struck me as odd, is that she

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00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,400
Speaker 1: leaves from Glasgow and then she goes she goes all

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Speaker 1: the way over to press Wick, which is on the coast,

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Speaker 1: on the West coast, and it seems like it was

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Speaker 1: a long way. According to the Glasgow Presswick Airport website UM,

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00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 1: from Glasgow Central Station to the airport UM, the train

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Speaker 1: time is fifty minutes, but if you were looking from

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00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 1: where she was living, it would have taken much longer.

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00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 1: That's what that's where I'm looking from, right, So it

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00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 1: would have taken much longer because she it also took

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00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 1: her that hour to commute from where she was living

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Speaker 1: to the Glasgow Central station. She was seen leaving at

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Speaker 1: one fifteen and she didn't get to Glasgow until two

347
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: thirty to fifteen, so then it probably counted for that

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Speaker 1: time as well, which would make sense for the our

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Speaker 1: forty travel time. Right if she went by car, if

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Speaker 1: she went by car directly from the place she was living.

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Speaker 1: And part of the weirdness with this timetable is the

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Speaker 1: person at her apartment who said they saw her at

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Speaker 1: a certain time. We don't we don't know if that's

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00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: actually solved. Yeah, that's not solid. But I would say

355
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Speaker 1: that the timetable from Glasgow to Presswick makes sense via train.

356
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Speaker 1: But I I would agree that if I looked it

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00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,359
Speaker 1: up from where she was living in Edinburgh, it would

358
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: take probably that long at least. Yeah, So anyway, we

359
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 1: have many mysteries here. But she's arriving at the airport.

360
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 1: It's cut at three fifteen on the overhead and then

361
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: she from the walkway, you go down an escalator and

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00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,920
Speaker 1: into the main terminal. Terminal is kind of long, kind

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00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 1: of east west, and uh, she's captured at three sixty

364
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: and fifty five seconds later coming out the other end

365
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Speaker 1: of the terminal. That this is This has cost a

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Speaker 1: little bit of head scratching because and I think it

367
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: might just be that the that the the timers or

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00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 1: the clocks in the in the city are just a

369
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,439
Speaker 1: little bit off. But yeah, they're saying she would have

370
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 1: had to have gotten all gone all the way down

371
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Speaker 1: the escalator and through the terminal in fifty five seconds

372
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Speaker 1: and apparently she could not have done that unless she

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Speaker 1: was running, which she might have been doing. Um, you

374
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,479
Speaker 1: see people running an airports all the time, although it's

375
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: it's not as recommended a thing to do these days

376
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 1: as it used to be. And usually you see them

377
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: running through security right like after they've gotten through security,

378
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: because they're running from to make their connections. Yeah, that

379
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 1: seems less likely. And as I mentioned at three sixty,

380
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 1: she's captured again at CCTV TV footage coming out of

381
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Speaker 1: the terminal where there is a short term parking lot

382
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 1: car park to you Brits h and three minutes later

383
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: caught on the same camera coming back into the terminal,

384
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: heading back the way she came. So she spent three

385
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: minutes in the parking lot. Did she have a luggage

386
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: with her? Yeah? She had. She had I think a

387
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: shoulder bag and another bag, but not like a roller bag,

388
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 1: nothing like that, just to kind of day bags or something. Yeah,

389
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: it's it's apparent to me that she I think she

390
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: may be meant to go back to Sweden. Was everybody

391
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 1: ticket but she didn't stay in the airport. Yeah, according

392
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 1: to and his friend theory. Yeah, but anyway, she apparently

393
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: on the tape looked angry and again nobody knows why.

394
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 1: And at three twenty she's captured on a video again

395
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 1: getting back onto the walkway back over to the trail

396
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: the train station. Uh so she spent a grand total

397
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 1: of five minutes in the airport, three of it in

398
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: the parking lot, and then just left without buying a ticket,

399
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: because that's presumably what she would have been there to do,

400
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: buy a ticket and catch her flight, but apparently she

401
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 1: decided to postpone that. But we do know that she

402
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: planned on going back to Sweden because she had made

403
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: an appointment with her hairdresser for December five, which in Sweden.

404
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: In Sweden, Yeah, she also had her passport with her

405
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 1: and she did have the bags, and so yeah, it

406
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: looks like she was planning on going back. That trump's

407
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: my theory. My theory was that fake rugby player guy,

408
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 1: what's his name, Martin, Yeah, that he had said, hey,

409
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm rich and well traveled, let's go away together, and

410
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: that she you know, he said I'll meet you at

411
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: this spot. I'll have driven my car and he didn't show,

412
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: and she was angry and left. But three minutes would

413
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 1: be an awful short amount of time to give up

414
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: and leave in frustration. I mean unless yeah, unless she

415
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: had googled his name, or I mean, unless she his

416
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: ruse was up. I don't know. I mean it's I

417
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: don't know, he's making out with another lady in his car.

418
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, you know, it was you know, everybody.

419
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: The prevalence theory is that she was there to meet somebody, Yeah,

420
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 1: who wasn't there. No other possibility is that somebody was

421
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 1: supposed to leave a car for her car wasn't there,

422
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: Or maybe somebody was supposed to leave something in or

423
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: under a car. So hey, you know, go to go

424
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: to this ford Blue Sudan and then you know, on

425
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: the left front tire, I'll leave something. You know, I'm

426
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: going to leave ann ounce of smack for you or

427
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: something like that. I don't know, yeah, or me. I mean,

428
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: maybe she was running late, that's why she Maybe she

429
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: was running through the terminal. Yeah, why she hustled through,

430
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: and she was you know, she was meant to meet

431
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 1: that person at you know, to thirty or something like

432
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: that or three third connections, she asked her, and so

433
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: she went to see if they were still there. They

434
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: weren't there, turned around and left, which would make sense.

435
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean, if you were late, you wouldn't wait for someone, Yeah,

436
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: you would leave and then try and contact them. Yeah,

437
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: so that's entirely possible. Unfortunately, we just don't know, and

438
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: she didn't after that, didn't spend any time at the

439
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 1: airport though she's sixty. Of her time at the airport

440
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: was spent in the parking lot, so that appears the

441
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: parking lot was her real true destination there. The rest

442
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,479
Speaker 1: of the time at the airport was spent, you know,

443
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: zipping through the terminil one way and then zipping back

444
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 1: the other way. Yeah, so we don't know. And then

445
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: after that, it appears and he headed towards the town

446
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: of press Wok on foot, although nobody really knows exactly

447
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: because she was captured again at on a c CCN

448
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: camera at four or five on Station Road, which is

449
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: about halfway between the airport and where the body was found.

450
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: But the image is kind of blurry and it might

451
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: well have not been any and the police expert took

452
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: a look at the video, as he said, it was

453
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: impossible to tell so well. Part of the problem is

454
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: is that that was right around sunset yeah, right after

455
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: sunset ranch I think since it was three that day. Yeah,

456
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: so it's obviously getting dark and that so the camera's

457
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: not going to have a good clear image. And do

458
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: we know how long it would have reasonably taken someone

459
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: to walk from the Prestwick Airport to Prestwick proper? I

460
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: would say, like, was if that if that was her

461
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: at four or five on the CCTV, would it have

462
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: been really like that would have been a reasonable amount

463
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: of time for it to have taken her to walk

464
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: that far. Yeah, it's about forty five minutes. I think

465
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: I think she probably could have walked the distance forty

466
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 1: five minutes. It looked like it was two miles or so.

467
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean it was around It wasn't like it was

468
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: a straight shot. Yeah, so it was kind of a

469
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: round about way to go. Yeah, but she could have easily,

470
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: But again we don't know that that's her. She was

471
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: spotted again by eyewitnesses at four thirty on the beach,

472
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: although I discount this one pretty heavily, but there were

473
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: two guys standing on the sea wall. They saw somebody

474
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: standing at the water's edge not really been looking at

475
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: to see. The tide was low and the beach of Prestwick.

476
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: You guys probably know this is extremely flat and it

477
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: goes out for love, goes at a long, long way,

478
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: like I would say, to the tune of a couple

479
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: hundred yards at a really super low low tide. You

480
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: know you can it can actually yeah, I can actually

481
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: be two yards. Yeah, extremely Yeah, the witness is estimated

482
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: the distance at this point was a hundred fifty yards

483
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: and again because of the time for thirty which is

484
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: forty minutes after sunset. Yeah, at a hundred and fifty yards,

485
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: I really don't see how we can put any weight

486
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: on this at all. Yeah, that's hard. I mean she

487
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: did have some pretty distinguishing features, right you really really

488
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: long blonde blonde hair, and you know, I don't think

489
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: that's the most common thing to see in Scotland. But

490
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: also you can't you can't say with certainty, oh I

491
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: saw blonde, you know, I saw somebody that was what

492
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: looked like really long blonde hair. You still can't say

493
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, in mind, if it's a hundred and

494
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: fifty yards out, she is against what is remaining of

495
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: the setting sun. She's she's going to be frontlets. So

496
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: you're all, yeah, so That's why I agree with Joe,

497
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: it's very questionable on this this week. Yeah, and certainly

498
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: it's a beach. You know, what do people do. People

499
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: go to the beach and they hang out, They look

500
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: at the sunset and standing around. Yeah, so if it

501
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: could have been anybody. And then there's another witness, again unnamed.

502
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: This is per Guya heard the mother who saw her

503
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: talking to two men at the sea wall at around

504
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: the same time. So again kind of unreliable. So our

505
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: our last really solid sighting is at three when she

506
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: left left her on the airport. Yeah, but as far

507
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: as the guys who who saw her standing hundred fifty

508
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: yards out, the local police took that into account and

509
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons they theorized that suicide was

510
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: possibly what she did. That seems like I'm sure we'll

511
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: talk about this in theories, but I just want to

512
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: go on record right now. Is saying that's a really rough,

513
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: weird way to commit suicide. Well, it is, it's it's

514
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: and I think it's reading a lot into it. Just

515
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: because somebody's standing looking out to see does that mean

516
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: they're suicidal? I mean, who doesn't do that? Yeah? I

517
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: did that too, in fact, that's I mean, that's a

518
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: normal human thing to do, right you guys, you're standing

519
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: there looking at something that's kind of pretty and then

520
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: you're lost in thought. Yeah it is. Yeah, But I

521
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: think I was listening to an interview with the Scottish

522
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,479
Speaker 1: guy named Tom Minogue. I don't know if you've heard

523
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: of him. He's had a few things to say about

524
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: this case, but he said in this interview he said,

525
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: the Scottish police really like to conclude suicide. Really a

526
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: lot about the Scottish. Yeah, that was Irish, that was

527
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: Ireland though, Oh you're right, yeah, but he's haided. He's

528
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 1: had a number of cases, but one of the ones

529
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: that stood at the best was Billy Harrison. And this

530
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: guy named Billy Harrison was a young man who was

531
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: found He was drunk and he was found dead in

532
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: a Glasgow alley and he had five separate head wounds

533
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: in the back of his head, and the police concluded

534
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: it was a suicide and the family, the family pressed

535
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: hard to get reclassified as murder and have it investigated,

536
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: and the police fought resisted it heavily, and they believed

537
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: that he had he had fallen down and banged his

538
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: head and then drunkenly gotten back up, falling down again

539
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: banged the back of it. Yeah, eventually they did reclassify

540
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: it as as suspicious as suspicious death suspicious. Yeah, but

541
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of funny in a horrible sort of way.

542
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do know that the Scots are are

543
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: known for pessimism, or I think I think they call

544
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: it dour moods. That's that's just one of the biggest

545
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: stereotypes of Scottish people in general. So well, maybe you

546
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: never know. I mean, it does seem that people like

547
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: to hear that about the Fins. Also, you know here

548
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: will be stereotypical again, but I think part of it

549
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: might have to do with like living way the hell

550
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: up there so far north at the thing you hear

551
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: it about, or again too because it's so rainy and stuff.

552
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: We are, Yeah, so we don't know anything about what

553
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: she was up to between between three twenty in the

554
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: afternoon and eight thirty in the morning the following day. Yeah,

555
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: that's why do you have my woman's out walking her

556
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: dogund your body. Uh And for those of you who

557
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: are gonna want to go out and google maps, it's

558
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: look on it was on the beach near Grange Mirror Road.

559
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: That's g R A N G E m U I R.

560
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: And there's a parking lot right there, which is if

561
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: you're if you're the mind that she was murdered somewhere

562
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: else and her body was placed there well to be handy,

563
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: handy little parking lot spot right there. Yeah, So the

564
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: body was found faced up. Her jacket and travel bags

565
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: were nearby. And they didn't discover this right away, but

566
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: a red and white police that she had been wearing

567
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: under her jacket was missing, and her filo facts was missing. Yeah,

568
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: they didn't figure out that the Police Angle hotel. Months later,

569
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: the police, the police finally came across the c c

570
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: C be at age of her going into and leaving

571
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: the airport, and that's when they spotted the red and

572
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: white fleece under her jacket. And so that was never explained.

573
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: What happened to that? Was it particularly windy, No, because

574
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: the other things would have blown away to well. I

575
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: was just thinking, okay, can I use a bit of rationale.

576
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: You guys know that I for a long time commuted

577
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: around this city by bus and train and when it's

578
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: not cold, but it's rainy. I've got a bunch of

579
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: layers on it. Suddenly I get too hot. I'm gonna

580
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: strip down off one of the under layers and put

581
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: everything back on. So then she stuffs in her bag.

582
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: It gets washed away, Like I can see that very

583
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: simply as took it off, but put everything else back

584
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: on that had been there beforehand. But the fact that

585
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: her file fox FILO fax was also missing, is it

586
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: is weird? Yeah, that's a little more serious. Well, I

587
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: gotta be okay, we've talked about this before. Somebody's walking

588
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: along and they're not the most scrupulous individual, and here's

589
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: a body, and let me go through the pockets, take

590
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: the whole bag if it's right there, because that is

591
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: very obvious. I don't. I don't think she kept the

592
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: file off facts in the bag. I mean maybe she did.

593
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: She might have kept in her pocket, yeah, I mean,

594
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: if it was in her but either way, somebody could

595
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: have done a quick inspection. So oh, there's cash in

596
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: this five finger discount walking down the road. Oh yeah,

597
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: she also kept money in there if somebody had seen her. Yeah,

598
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: As I said earlier, and autopsy was done, her lungs

599
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: were found to be congested the air pass. She just

600
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: contained froththy material, so they concluded drowning fair enough. Yeah,

601
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: there was also a depression otherwise in her skin otherwise

602
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: not described in great detail, some bruising on their right temple,

603
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: abrasions on the left arm, and two contusions on the

604
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: right arm. Police put these down to contact with objects

605
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: in the water, so maybe I don't know. Toxicology testing

606
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: showed no drugs in any system and a little bit

607
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: of alcohol about point oh two. That's really not a

608
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: lot for um, because I looked it up. Actually, Um,

609
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: for somebody who's like a hundred and twenty pounds, which

610
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: I think she probably was, that's one serving of an

611
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: alcoholic drink, right, so a glass of wine, a bottle

612
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: of beer, or the one a jigger of alcohol an

613
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: hour and forty minutes before. Yeah. Yeah, Although so it's

614
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: not a lot of though for Annie, who was a

615
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: very light drinker, it could have it could have been.

616
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: It could have been. It didn't get her falling down drink.

617
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: But it also it also raises the question of like

618
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: when did that happen. Let's you don't know she got

619
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: she could have got to drink at four thirty or

620
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: at nine PM or but I mean yeah, but also

621
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: if she killed herself, you know, as stated right, because

622
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: she was looking longingly into the ocean at four thirty,

623
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: when did she have time to get that drink? She

624
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: didn't an hour and forty minutes ago, she was running

625
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: through a terminal the airport. I mean, yeah, exactly. So

626
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a bit of a question mark

627
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, I was going to mention that in

628
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: a series. Actually, I'm sorry, I'm pulling you. Yeah, yeah,

629
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: oh okay, accorded to her mother, DNA from another person

630
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: was found on Annie's hands. So that's why she thinks

631
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: she was murdered elsewhere, is because the DNA should have

632
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 1: been washed off by immersion in the sea water. Oh yeah,

633
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: think yeah, it should have, especially if she was in

634
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: the water for long enough for there to have been

635
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: bruising and abrasions and contusions and depressions. Right, if she

636
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: was getting tossed around in the water enough for it

637
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: to bang her body up a little bit, you would

638
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: think that that would definitely wash the majority of stuff off. Yeah,

639
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: I think about it is I'm not sure where the

640
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: DNA stuff comes from. That's what I was gonna ask

641
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: is if there was DNA on her lips, that would

642
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: be one thing, But it could have been anywhere in

643
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: her hands, under her fingernails, in internally, So that begs

644
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: the question of where was it Because then being in

645
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: the water, the amount of time that it takes for

646
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: to degrade and or wash away she snificantly changed. It

647
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: would seem that the only place that it could reasonably

648
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: have been found would be internally. Had she yeah, I would,

649
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: I would count under her nails as I guess. Yeah,

650
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: although again I'm not entirely sure about the DNA being found.

651
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's like Goody was talking about, you know,

652
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: comparing the DNA in her hands with with no no

653
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: suspects perhaps that kind of thing. But how do you

654
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: do that? Because if it's on her hands, it's already

655
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: by definition, it's already contaminated. Yeah, so I mean it's

656
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: not it's not not really any good for investigatory purposes

657
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: unless you can, you know, do a couple matched markers.

658
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: And I don't even know how you I don't even

659
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: know how you get d NA off. Somebody tell you

660
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: the truth. I get their own DNA, of course, but

661
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: how do you tell but they've got somebody else's DNA

662
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: even on them. I mean, I don't understand DNA testing,

663
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: so I can't even I would presume that it would

664
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: mean that it would have to have been very different,

665
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: i e. Like male, because you can certainly tell from

666
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: DNA if it's male or female. N F females happens

667
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: to have male DNA on her hands, you would presume

668
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: that's foreign usually. Oh yeah, but goo yeah said that

669
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: it was a woman's I don't know. I have no idea,

670
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: but I don't know anything about teach. I have no

671
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,959
Speaker 1: idea that when you know, if you're the Scottish police

672
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and you're investigating it's a suicidal swimmer, why you would

673
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: even bother testing for DNA have somebody's hands anyway? Yeah, yeah,

674
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: But there was a second second autopsy. Andy's body got

675
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: back to Sweden December sixteen. Uh and undertakers there, I

676
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: found more extensive bruising on the right arma side and

677
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: behind your right ear. Uh. And they also acquired a

678
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: sample of Andy's bone marrow and sent it to a

679
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: professor in Strasburg to look at. And he found evidence

680
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: of freshwater algae in the bone marrow, which is interesting.

681
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I had no idea how freshwater algae can get into

682
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: your bone marrow. It's kind of weird, but that's super weird.

683
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: Apparbably it was there. That led to speculation that Andie

684
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: was drowned somewhere else and then dumped on the beach.

685
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: But I've actually read testimony from other experts who say

686
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: that it's much more likely that she got the alogay

687
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: from just drinking contentment tap water, and that it probably

688
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: edited her system long before her death. It would there

689
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: would that's what I'm taking bone marrow. It would take

690
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: a long time to get there. That's why I had

691
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: another reason. I totally yeah, it was in the water

692
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: this Yeah, No, I don't seem strang. And she didn't

693
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: have any broken bone. Yeah. I would also say that

694
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: it's not really that startling to say there were more

695
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: bruises found on her, given that there was more time

696
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: than the blood would have settled and she was moved,

697
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: and it's not I mean, it's not that startling. Yeah,

698
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: it might be. Bruising is one of those things that

699
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: you can pretty I trust an initial medical examiner on

700
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: because it's real hard to miss. You wouldn't be like,

701
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: oh surprise, two months later, there's this bruise that we

702
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: totally missed on her side. I mean, it's an easy

703
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: thing to notice. It's one thing to say, oh, we

704
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: didn't notice that her heart arteries were mildly inflamed. It's

705
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: another to say, there was this huge bruise on her

706
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: side that we totally missed, right right, Yeah, these things

707
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: you're really pretty obvious. And I could be wrong. It's

708
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: different from place to place, but the things that I've

709
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: read about it is, you know, they do standard examinations

710
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: and there's methods to determine if they're subcutaneous bruising, to

711
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: try and pick that up, because of course the bruise

712
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: won't really grow. So I don't know, it's hard to

713
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: say what the differences are from especially from country to country,

714
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: let alone what we're used to, which is from state

715
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: to state. That's true. And also let's not forget the

716
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: corners who actually, you know, we're doing the autopsy and

717
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: in Scotland they were speaking you know, you've you've seen

718
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: it on TV. They speaking to a microphone and they

719
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: were speaking in what Scottish broke, so whoever was transcribing

720
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: probably couldn't understand half what they were saying, kidding, guys,

721
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: I love you, guys. I love Scottish brogue. Since I'm sorry,

722
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm just reading on Google again because you know that's

723
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: my thing. Will that, according to it a fair number

724
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: of studies. This one I'm reading is on pub M

725
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: d SO or pub med. Sorry that is that's a

726
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: reasonably solid source. So it's that they've done studies and bruises,

727
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: bruise like discolorations can appear after death. I've heard the

728
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: same thing, So I mean it's reasonable to say not

729
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: to beat a dead horse or anything. Oh no, no,

730
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: I don't beat away. But nonetheless, Annie's family is not

731
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: convinced that she even died from drowning. Apparently they're still

732
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: tissue samples in the possession of both the Scottish and

733
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: Swedish governments, but they're refusing to release them for examination

734
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: by independent experts. And I don't know why, because they

735
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: could put this whole thing to rest. Frankly, they may

736
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: very well. I hate to sound insensitive, but not care

737
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: to talk about this with other mysteries where we say

738
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: it would be really easy if they would just do

739
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: this thing, but for them it's closed. They don't care. Yeah,

740
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: they don't maybe, and they're probably totally convinced that it

741
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: just drowning. I mean, it's not not outrageous. It was

742
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: from a dead body on the beach, I mean with

743
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: water and the lungs. Yeah, it does appear that the

744
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: the investigation in the in the autopsy were kind of cursory.

745
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: It's it does seem like they could have probably been

746
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: a little more thorough. Uh. It really does look like

747
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: the police just immediately assumed that it was drowning and

748
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: it was either an action or suicide, and they'd never

749
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: really pursued it as even possibly being a murder, which

750
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,479
Speaker 1: I think is probably fair enough. Even though it's quite

751
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: likely that it is just an accidental drowning. They probably

752
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: should have kept their minds a little more open. Oh yeah,

753
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: there's another mystery. Annie had waist length hair, and when

754
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: the body got back to Sweden almost all of it

755
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: had been cut off. But it was cut off in

756
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: a really random way too. It wasn't cut off even

757
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: it was cut off in in locks. They just grabbed

758
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: a bunch and cut it off, and so she wound

759
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: up with some some locks of hair coming from a

760
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: scalp about five centimeters out and others about fifteen sixteen centimeters.

761
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: It really makes me really weird. It makes me think

762
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: of a you know, a little boy that gets hold

763
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: of his his sister's barbie and just starts hacking the

764
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: hair with That's exactly what it makes because it always

765
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of has that random, tough appearance that it's totally

766
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: twisted six serial killer kind of behavior. I mean, it

767
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: was like, I know you're making frankly, it is a

768
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 1: little weird. Well, yeah it is. No, it's it's definitely weird. Uh,

769
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: And I can't explain it away. No, I can't really either.

770
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: But at the at the first autopsy in Scotland, they

771
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: reported in the report that her hair was long because

772
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: it was long, So I just mentioned it was weird

773
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 1: and weird appearance because even I mean, she had really

774
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: really long hair, so even cutting you know, inches off

775
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: of it, it would still appear long. Yeah, but kind

776
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: of cutting so much, that's only five centimeters coming out

777
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: of that. That's not long now. So yeah, and he

778
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: didn't cut her hair obviously, if she was murdered, the

779
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: murderer couldn't have cut it. The funeral undertakers in London

780
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: and said they cut a little bit off of her

781
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: hair to make it look more presentable. They said four

782
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: or five centimeters. That's like two inches. By the way,

783
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: for US Americans, it's centimes is one point nine. Yeah,

784
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: and she was and it was due for a haircut,

785
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: so she probably did has some money even ends probably

786
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: and so they just they just trimmed him off a

787
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: little bit. You would think, just in one fell swoop

788
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: there shouldn't have been a yeah, and so that that's

789
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: what they said it And then they shifted off the

790
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: swede and somewhere between there and when the family saw

791
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: the body, somebody grabbed a bunch of hair. That's really weird.

792
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: It's like somebody wanted to make a wig. Well, no,

793
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 1: I kind of wonder is that one of the things

794
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: that's required when you transport a body internationally is that

795
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: you embalm it. And I don't know that necessarily. The

796
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: folks that did the medical examination on the body and

797
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: the folks had embombed it were the same. So I

798
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: wonder if somebody you kind of hit the nail on

799
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: the head where I was heading here, Joe, is that

800
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 1: they went, well, we did our job here, and uh,

801
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm a copple hotter. Box short and I know I

802
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: got this wig business on the side, look at that.

803
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: Or you can sell it, yeah, and just pack it

804
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: off and well nobody'll ever be able to track it down.

805
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: Nobody will you even notice, except that in this case

806
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: they totally did. I mean except that, like, it's so

807
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: much easier to just gather in one handful and cut

808
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: and it turns out okay, I mean, like I've donated

809
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: hair one word greed. I guess it's just easier and

810
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: easier to manage when you are shipping it off. Then

811
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: you just like, you don't send a bag of hair.

812
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: It has to be you don't, but I do. Okay,

813
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: well you don't have hair, So this is why I

814
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: keep saying enough bag falls of it. Yeah, yeah, that

815
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: is weird. Also, the other question I guess I have

816
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: is um, when you evalm a body, can you do

817
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: an autopsy on it? You do the autopsy prior in

818
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: autopsy happened in Sweden on December, and that secondary autopsy

819
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: would have suffered because of the fact that the body

820
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: had it embolved and the body it also just deteriorated

821
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: because it have been a couple of weeks. So okay, yeah,

822
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: I mean the body got to Am I correcting this, Joe?

823
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: Or am I confusing this with another story that her

824
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: or some of her internal organs were actually in bags,

825
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: they were no longer in the body. Is that right?

826
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: Or am I mixing that up with a different embalming story.

827
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember what this one, actually, I

828
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: don't remember. I remember there was there was some weirdness

829
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: about the whole embalming process, and of course, whenever you

830
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: do it, you screw up anything. But they do that.

831
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: I've read because there's another case that I'm really interested

832
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: in that has to do with some weirdness with autopsies.

833
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: But they pull the organs out and bag them and

834
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: stick them back in the body cavity. Okay, but that's

835
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: a typical that's a normal thing. Okay. I remember reading

836
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: that and kind of had a WTF moment. Yeah, because

837
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: you don't want like, you've got all these organs and

838
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: they've got fluids and stuff, and they're not going to

839
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: get the embalming fluid in them, so okay, you just

840
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 1: stick them in bags. But totally makes sense. God something

841
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: creepy about that, Oh yeah, a little bit, Yeah, definitely. Yeah,

842
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: that's why I'm going to get cremated. Yeah, I'm thinking

843
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: that might get cremated tooth. That's that's hundreds of years

844
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: down the line, So I'm not gonna worry about it again. Yeah.

845
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, again as I messing before. Yeah,

846
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: I made it packed with the devil. That's what that

847
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: portrait is. Yeah, Satan. Let me give a shout out

848
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: to Satan. Yeah, christ if I left facts was missing,

849
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: because again she never went anywhere without it. She did

850
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: keep money in it. So if she was murdered, maybe

851
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: robbery was the murder, the murder motive? What else happened?

852
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: And then in the aftermath of the death and everything,

853
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: some other strange things happened. Um, Andy's mom went out

854
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: to her hotmail account and found that everything had been wiped.

855
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: All the emails had been deleted since and received. Do

856
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: we have any sense if that was a typical it

857
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: turns out, you know, and a lot of the accounts

858
00:44:58,040 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: of this you read that, and then but again and

859
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: the the interview with Yeah that I listened to, she

860
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: said that a lot of stuff have been deleted. Yeah,

861
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 1: So like I guess for me, I'm I'm just guessing

862
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: that Annie was a fellow type a personality given that

863
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: she has a file effects that she carries around with

864
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: her and like most most type of personalities don't do that.

865
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: And I am a militant inbox zero person. I file

866
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: away or delete all of my emails. If there's more

867
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: than like three or four emails in my account, I

868
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: get really stressed out. You guys know this because you

869
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: manage an email account with me. It's not starred. It's

870
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: got to be filed immediately, And so it wouldn't surprise

871
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: me to know that that's just how she managed her

872
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: email account. Anyway, Well, yeah, I don't recount when you

873
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: saw my email account that has emails from ten in

874
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 1: the just the inbox section. Still, yeah, I mind that

875
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: way too, But they're red. I'm keeping them. I know

876
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: what they are. But the look on your face going

877
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: files or nowhere, Now that's probably a good system. Maybe

878
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: someday I'll adopt that a thousand unready emails. But anyway, anyway,

879
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I listened to that interview with good

880
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: because because every account you readed this, her hotmail account

881
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: was totally wiped and her but she just said that

882
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff was missing, a lot of stuff

883
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: that she expected should be there was not there, So okay,

884
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: I go either way on that. Yeah, her friend for

885
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: some reason was was wanting to pull her phone records,

886
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: and she because she had been talking back and forth

887
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: with Annie between Sweden and Scotland, and she said that

888
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: phone calls in both directions were just not recorded. They

889
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: were not they were. Yeah, that's right, they just weren't. Yeah, okay,

890
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: I mean I guess, and they were. They were definitely

891
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: from the cell phone. I mean I guess presumably too,

892
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: you would know what phone number you were calling, but

893
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: I guess we talked about her using the pay phone

894
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: a lot and now national calls, so I guess. Yeah.

895
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: But still, even the incoming calls should have been the

896
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: incoming calls phone should have been on the self. So

897
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: why that's not there? I mean, the only thing that

898
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: I could even remotely think that would explain it is

899
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: because porting your phone number was becoming available at that

900
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: time where you could take it from Carrier AID to

901
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: Carrier B. But that is just such a random thing

902
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: to have just coincided with when she did it that

903
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: I doubt that's the case. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah,

904
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, the phone records you missing. I don't know,

905
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: but that this adds up to another all the stuff

906
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: to missing emails and missing phone calls, and then Maria

907
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: Maria isn't Jansen or Johnson, her friend Maria Johnson started

908
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: getting creepy phone calls. You picked the phone rangs, You

909
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: pick it up and there's silence on the other end.

910
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: And so was that her friend that asked for the

911
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: phone records? How that connects? Okay, Sorry I should have

912
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,720
Speaker 1: messtioned that earlier, and I think I mentioned Gloria Johnson's

913
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: name earlier. Yeah, that was a friend that was had

914
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: talked to her a lot on the phone and wasn't

915
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: looking for the phone records, and yeah, they were gone missing.

916
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: She was getting these mysterious phone calls. And uh, eventually

917
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: somebody put forward a theory that sort of like ties

918
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: all this stuff up, why this weird stuff was happening,

919
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: And which is that Annie Bergerson's full name is Anti

920
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: Christina Bergson, and there's a journalist whose name is Christina Borgesson.

921
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: So it's like it's spelled exactly the same, except it

922
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have the two little dots over the oh at

923
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 1: the beginning there. So yeah, so Christina and Christina Bergson

924
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: and Christina Borgson who was a journalist who had been

925
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: investigating extraordinary renditions that were being run through the Prestwick Airport.

926
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: In other words, c A planes were landing in Prestwick, refueling,

927
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: stopping over and and then taken off to go on

928
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: their way. Um and right, do I need to explain

929
00:48:53,480 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: extraordinary rendition? Yes? Okay? Uh? Rendition is so like the U. S.

930
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: Government takes in the custody at a known terrorist, for example,

931
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: they might find themselves a little short on jail space

932
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: and so or maybe they've got to get a cell

933
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: ready for him. So while they're getting a cell redecorated,

934
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: we might we might ask our friends Saudias or maybe

935
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: the Jordanians or the Egyptians or somebody to just look

936
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: after them for a little while. And then you know,

937
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: of course, while they are at custody over there, then

938
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: they might decide to ask a few questions punctuated by

939
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: the occasional application of a hot poker kind of thing

940
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: or the extraction of a fingernail. So that's what rendition is. Yeah,

941
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: that's what rendition is. Yeah, some light drowning yet a

942
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: little water boarding, You know the Yeah, and some some

943
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: overhydration if you will. Yeah, so that's rendition um. And

944
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: then uh, of course eventually we finished with the cell

945
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: remodel and then we get them back. But uh, yeah,

946
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: so I guess I, for all of my like buying

947
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: into government conspiracy theories, didn't realize that was the thing

948
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: that we did. We didn't know that. I know, I didn't.

949
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 1: Steve's looking at me like I'm a crazy person. I'm

950
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: not a synth. I haven't been replaced. I just didn't

951
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: know that happened. I mean, it makes total sense now

952
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: that you say it, But I didn't know that that

953
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: was a thing. Well, you know, that's the whole thing is, like,

954
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, we can't really do that stuff over here,

955
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: so we just we just say, hey, guys, why don't

956
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: you take care of these guys for a while. I'm

957
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: gonna go get a coke from the machine. Anybody want anything? Yeah,

958
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a coke from the machine. Now it's

959
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: at the far end of the building and I won't

960
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,760
Speaker 1: be able to hear the thing that's going on in here. Yeah.

961
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: So's so anyway, that's the whole story pretty much. Mysterious

962
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: death creepy email and phone mail and phone call stuff,

963
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: and s C I A a journalist who had the

964
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: same name. And the theory is that it was a

965
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: case of mistaken identity hits like a CIA or M

966
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: I five AM I six hit squad took out any thinking, yeah,

967
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: thinking that she was just journalist Christina Borgson. Did they

968
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: look similar at all? Well, I'll talk about I'll talk

969
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: about that. I was gonna say, are we gonna go

970
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: straight into that theory? Where do you want to start here? Well,

971
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 1: let's start with number of theories. Yeah, we can start

972
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: with suicide by drowning, um, because that's the official line. Yeah,

973
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: of course, you know, she obviously didn't commit suicide immediately

974
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: and when she was seeing at the seashore for thirty

975
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 1: which by the way, that probably wasn't her. But uh,

976
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that she was suicidal. And uh, of

977
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: course that's a weird way to kill yourself. It is,

978
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: it's been done. Um. But and she would she couldn't

979
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: have waited out to see at that time because, like

980
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: you said earlier, she had alcohol her blood streams. She

981
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: had to go somewhere and get a drink. Yeah, so

982
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: she couldn't have done it at for thirty and then

983
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: you go somewhere, you get a drink, an hour and

984
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: a half passes because you know it's on safe to

985
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: swim drunk anything you can have started to come back

986
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: in because a real four thirty it was LOWD time. Yeah,

987
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: And I feel like when the tide is coming in,

988
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: it's harder to kill, right. It's easier if there's like

989
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 1: a rip tide and it's going out, just dragged out

990
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: to scene and that's like fine, whatever, you're done, But

991
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: if the tide's coming in, it seems like it would

992
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: be harder. That's just like a layman's probably really uneducated

993
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: version of how things work. But also she was a

994
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,919
Speaker 1: really strong swimmer, and people's you know, instinct to live

995
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: does kick in. It's a very documented it kicks in. It.

996
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: I haven't struggled she would have had to wade a

997
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 1: long way out and be really determined. Yeah, right, Like really,

998
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: I don't believe. I have a hard time believing that

999
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: that's what she did, because, like we've talked about, automatic

1000
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: reactions just kick in even though you're probably closed and

1001
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: it's your clothes are soaked and they're going to weigh

1002
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: you down so shy allow that it seems like it

1003
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: would be easy to just dog paddle all the way

1004
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: in and then suddenly be able to walk again. Yeah,

1005
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: because the sea wall, Joe, you and I talked about

1006
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: this yesterday. The sea wall at its high point there

1007
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: where she was found, is what a meter high? So well,

1008
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: now it's more than a meter high, I mean because

1009
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: typically at high tide it's usually about a meter d. Okay,

1010
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: that's where I got. So we'll just say this. The

1011
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: sea wall is a meter and a half couple of high,

1012
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, well, but if the only a meter deep,

1013
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: it's only a meter d still drown yourself in that? Yeah?

1014
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: I mean that deadly dihydrogen mon oxide. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1015
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: I mean if she came back and say, wanted to

1016
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: kill herself, she could have done it. But again, she

1017
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken her bags with her, and she would

1018
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: have it and she probably would have been she would

1019
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: have gotten slashed, right, I mean, you would assume she

1020
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: would have have way more alcohol or so she gonna

1021
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: kill yourself, you might as well go out and style

1022
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: party down. But if you're not a big drinker, I

1023
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: don't I don't think that that necessarily would be the

1024
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: mindset I mean, I would see, Okay, if from what

1025
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: I know about Annie, I would say, being as you said,

1026
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: kind of the type A. She's a strong swimmer. For

1027
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 1: whatever reason she decided to end it all in this situation,

1028
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: she would swim. She would swim to the horizon exactly

1029
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: because that you're so tired that even when your instinct

1030
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: kicks in, you can't make it back. But then the clothes.

1031
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: I'm a swimmer. The last thing I want to have

1032
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: on is a bunch of clothes because I can't get

1033
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: as far that. If she's that far out, doesn't it

1034
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: seem unreasonable that her body would have washed ashore as

1035
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: early as that morning, should have sunk and then washed

1036
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: ashore rightly saying that she was smart enough to come

1037
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: back at high tide and jump in. Then it starts swimming. Yeah,

1038
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: But then I mean, because the mermaids aren't gonna put

1039
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: her clothes back on her for modesty, saying, I mean,

1040
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: it just it doesn't. The whole thing doesn't make sense

1041
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: to me, is where I'm going. I'm sure it wasn't suicide. No, Yeah, well,

1042
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,439
Speaker 1: let's move on to our next year. If you guys

1043
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: are anything more. Yeah, and I think it's I think

1044
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 1: that suicide is a pretty lame explanation, So it could

1045
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: have been an accident. So let's let's assume that Annie

1046
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: went and had a drink or two and came back

1047
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: at a later time. I'm willing to say the bid

1048
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: with that B A C. Two drinks over the course

1049
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: of an hour, is it really the most because right

1050
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: after you die this correct me if I'm wrong, Right,

1051
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: But once you've dead, your your B a C stops degrading, right, yeah,

1052
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: your because it's not processing anything. So it would have

1053
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: been the maximum that she really would have had is

1054
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: like two drinks two hours ago. Yeah, So she's not

1055
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: she's not hammered, but she's feeling maybe a little tipsy maybe. Yeah.

1056
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: So later on that night, it's high tide, there's some

1057
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,479
Speaker 1: water down there, and he goes down to the sea wall,

1058
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: jumps up on it and shouts, I'm the kick of

1059
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: the world, and then loses her balance and falls in

1060
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: the water. Average temperature of the sea in the area

1061
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: at that time of year is about eight degrees cytigrade

1062
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: or forty six degrees fahrenheit, which is cold. Yeah, quite

1063
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: like you know the average temperature of the organ coast. Yeah, exactly.

1064
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: But humans have a reflex which causes them to inhale

1065
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: sharply if you're suddenly unexpectedly immersed in very cold water. Uh.

1066
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 1: It kills a lot of rafters in kayaks. And I

1067
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: personally experienced it myself one time. Have you experienced that? Yeah,

1068
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 1: I was in a raft and it was like April

1069
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 1: on the Sandy River and the water was damn cold,

1070
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: and we got dumped in the water and I just

1071
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 1: want like that and luckily my face was above water.

1072
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: But damn that. Oh yeah, yeah, but a lot of

1073
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people, it doesn't work out so well.

1074
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: It kills a lot of people. So something like that happened,

1075
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: and she accidentally fell into the water or somebody pushed

1076
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: her into the water or whatever. It's entirely possible any

1077
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 1: even even though being a strong swimmer, could have inhaled

1078
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of water and just drowned. Well, there's also

1079
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: to to run along that. And let's not just say

1080
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: necessarily that she was at the sea wall, because we're

1081
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: making a presumption that she was at the sea wall

1082
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: because somebody saw that person who has been identified with found.

1083
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: She was found close to the sea wall. But bear

1084
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: with me here. The thing that I looked at is

1085
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: so at that time of year, they're getting about four

1086
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: inches of rain, and I pulled up the maps, the

1087
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: flood maps for that area, and just north of where

1088
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: she's found is the Power Burn, which is a smaller

1089
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: creek river that runs underneath the airport and then pops

1090
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 1: out kind of north of where she was. And then

1091
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: there's the bigger river, which now I cannot think of.

1092
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: I know the creek name, but I can't think of

1093
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 1: the bigger river that's right there. But it's entirely possible

1094
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: that she could have been, you know, walking over bridge

1095
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: or goof around on the banks for whatever reason, and

1096
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: went in there. That water would have been high enough

1097
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: to wash her out into the surf. And in that area,

1098
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: the sea tends to run from south to north, so

1099
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,600
Speaker 1: she's in the bigger river, the one that's south of

1100
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: where she was found. She would have gone in the water.

1101
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: She would have been washed out across the delta into

1102
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: the lower the low water because it's not that high,

1103
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: and then the current would have taken her north as

1104
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: it pushed her inland until as it recedes, it leaves

1105
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: her on the beach. If there a bridge over that river,

1106
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 1: there are, so it would be possible, if we were

1107
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: going to go back to suicide, it would be possible

1108
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: that she is I was gonna say, unless she zip

1109
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: tied her bags to her, there's no way that she

1110
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: could have kept them that whole journey. But it is

1111
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: entirely possible that she could have gone in not into

1112
00:58:55,320 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: the sea, but into a relatively quickly flowing river, and

1113
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: then gone out to see and then made that circular,

1114
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: kind of C shaped trip back. Except except for the

1115
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: jacket in the bags. Ye seems that the bags are

1116
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: the goofy bit in this whole story, no matter what

1117
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: way you slice it, except for the one theory that

1118
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: we haven't gone to or one of the theories, the

1119
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: bags are the odd ball. But I wanted to point

1120
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: out that she could have gone into a river and

1121
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: not necessarily into the ocean, not as possible except for

1122
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: the bags. Yeah, Yeah, the bags, damn bags, Yeah, the bags.

1123
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: The bags. Actually, Um, I think really kind of argue

1124
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: against almost every theory here but one. But let's go

1125
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 1: out of some more theories. Next theory is murder. Well,

1126
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: there's more than one murder. This is one of those, right,

1127
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: like murder heading withheadings. Yeah, use bullet points this time

1128
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,959
Speaker 1: to read in my file of facts the right way.

1129
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: I you know, I sometimes like to use bullet points,

1130
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: but sometimes in word they could just be kind of

1131
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: a nuisance, you know what I'm saying. You just don't

1132
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: know how to use them more properly. Probably true. But

1133
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 1: let's go out all right. Let these will be quick

1134
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: for our first one. There's stream sub possibilities. Let me

1135
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: get these out and out in the front now. Murder,

1136
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: robbery or robbery murder if you prefer that. Next one

1137
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: random murdered by psycho okay, and next one mistaken identification

1138
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: and murdered by the CIA or am I six. So

1139
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: those are three categories of murder here, unless you guys

1140
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: can think of any others that kind of covers it.

1141
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: So that would explain murder robbery man, that would explain

1142
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: why the file effects is missing. If somebody is say,

1143
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: ran into her in the bar and noticed that she

1144
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: like opened up her file effacts and pulled out cash

1145
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: to pay for her drink um and then befriended dir

1146
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: and then went for a stroll on the sea wall

1147
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: and then eventually he um say, shoves her off the

1148
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: sea wall into the water and grabs her jacket with

1149
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: the filo facts, pulls the file effects out, throws that

1150
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: acting to the water. After and he didn't mean to

1151
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: kill her. She's just down there floundering because she's inhaled

1152
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of water, so he doesn't realize how much

1153
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: trouble she's in. He throw us the bags in after

1154
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: it takes off and takes off real fast, and she drowns,

1155
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,919
Speaker 1: and of course he never comes forward and says, hey,

1156
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to kill her.

1157
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: I sort of stole her stuff. But and to give

1158
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of credence to this, she has proven

1159
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: herself to be, at least to a certain degree, gullible

1160
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: enough to take whatever people say it faces value. Yeah exactly.

1161
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: Her friends, her friends said that she she's a really

1162
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: sweet person, really nice or it was a really sweet,

1163
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: nice person, a little a little bit too trusting, And

1164
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: so a situation like that, I can see where somebody

1165
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: accidentally didn't really mean to even kill her, just shoved

1166
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: her into the water and then beat feet out of there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1167
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I know people like that, who are They've

1168
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: gotten ripped off too many times that just because they

1169
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: believe people and they rust people, and lo and behold,

1170
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: people are what they say they are. Yeah, when the

1171
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: son of the deposed ruler of Nigeria emails you personally,

1172
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: you give him the money that he's asking for. This

1173
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: is the reason that I've installed so many virus programs

1174
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: and malware programs on a certain elderly family member's computer. Yeah,

1175
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: good idea. Yeah, I always give my bank account number.

1176
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: It's really it's really weird. No, let's just stop. Yeah, okay, yeah,

1177
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: there there is by the way, there's a website devoter

1178
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: to this whole thing. I've told you about it. Yes,

1179
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: that's our next one. Random murdered by psycho. Well, it

1180
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: happens on a regular basis to people all the time.

1181
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's why we have a podcast, Yeah,

1182
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: fodder for this entire thing. Yeah and so yeah, so

1183
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: some psycho meet true the bar and I clever something

1184
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: like that, and then invites you to go for a

1185
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: stroll on the beach and then and you know, this

1186
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: would help to explain the presence of the bags, you know,

1187
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: right near her body. Uh So he the tides coming

1188
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: in and holds her under, and yeah, it's not necessarily

1189
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 1: completely all the way in, but they just wait up

1190
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: for the shore and they shoves her down and shoves

1191
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: her face into the water and drows her. You know,

1192
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible to be consistent with the bruises on

1193
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 1: her body if you've got enough of a surprise on

1194
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: her and had leverage on honor and everything. She couldn't

1195
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:31,959
Speaker 1: really struggle all that much. But she didn't. She wasn't

1196
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: a terribly large girl. She wasn't, yea, she was pretty

1197
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: easy to her. Yeah, yeah, I know. If you get

1198
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: somebody face down in the body of water and you're

1199
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: a slightly larger stature and can just get on their back,

1200
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: they're done. I mean, because you have, like said, there's

1201
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: a leverage issue, there's nuns. Yeah, although you would assume

1202
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 1: that there would be some like she would have inhaled

1203
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: sand or something as well. You're you're you're putting logic

1204
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: into this, which is just sorry. Yeah, I mean, well, yeah,

1205
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: or you don't necessarily stand you could have shoved her

1206
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: face into a mud puddle and drugger to the beach.

1207
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, there's all sorts of possibilities. A fountain.

1208
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: Are there fountains in the area. I'm sure there are.

1209
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: We'll just go with that, yeah, yeah, okay, Or or

1210
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: a toilet at a nightclub. That's true too, Yeah, carried

1211
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: her outside. I don't know if she had too much

1212
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: stream Yeah, I know. Yeah, okay, So that one. I

1213
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: think that there is not much support for that, and

1214
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: I'd like murder robbery better. Frankly, well, yeah, either murder

1215
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: robbery or murder by random psycho. Both of them typically

1216
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: don't present any evidence, so we would have no way

1217
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: to know on either count. They're totally random. Yeah, yeah,

1218
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the missing filo facts tends to support the

1219
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: murder robbery thing, but I have to admit there's other

1220
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: explanations for the missing file facts. But yeah, uh. Our

1221
01:04:55,720 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 1: next murders theory mistaken identification murder. I've just looked up

1222
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 1: a picture of the supposed doppelganger, and this is what

1223
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: she looks like. Oh no, I know, I know. Yeah,

1224
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 1: it would be hard for them to mistake one for

1225
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: the other. They are both blonde, they had the same

1226
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 1: hair color. But that's where literally they're both white women

1227
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: with blonde hair and that's about it about it now, Yeah,

1228
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: Christina Christina Borgesson is a lot older and heavier, and

1229
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: they have much different faces, especially the jaw line. Yeah,

1230
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: well Christina has a bob. I haven't seen her with

1231
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: anything than like shoulder length hair. Annie's hair was waist length.

1232
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah I know. And also how did the CIA or

1233
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: Mi Sex or whoever know that Annie was impressed Wick

1234
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: because they had lu there? Well why would? But they

1235
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: know who she is and they know she's not the

1236
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: journalist Christina Borgeson that they're thinking about. Right, So she goes,

1237
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: she goes to the airport. A watcher spots her, reports

1238
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: reports back to h Q since immediately sense it hit

1239
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: squad depressed Wick, But how to watch her? Spot hers

1240
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: nothing like the journalist in question? Have you never seen

1241
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: any like Big Brother TV series? To know that all

1242
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: CCTV is monitored by a huge computer that runs facial

1243
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: recognition and returns names. And if you've got a new

1244
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: hire who says, oh that's something Christina Borgson, well that's her,

1245
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: she's there. We got to send a hit squad right

1246
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: now like that damned deficient and realistically right, it's not

1247
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: as though the hit squad that you send is knows

1248
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: who they're looking at you, just you give them the

1249
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: description if you're just a dumb analyst who miss mistook

1250
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 1: one person for another. Right, yeah, okay, that's the thing, right,

1251
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: that's the thing that's that's the thing on TV. I

1252
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: don't know that's the thing in real one. Yeah, yeah,

1253
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: that's fair. Yeah, you're gonna say weight on TV. They

1254
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: can take the CCT footage and they can enhance in

1255
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: hand in hand, hands hand, what's that in the mirror? Oh? InHand,

1256
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: that's a perfect HDTV thing. Yeah. I love that they could.

1257
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: They can image just like seventeen pixels and they can

1258
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: make it, like I say, an h D image and

1259
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: we will set me on fire faster than watching a

1260
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: TV show that does that. I was watching and just

1261
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:16,840
Speaker 1: add a little suspense. It's like that, well, you know,

1262
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: we gotta enhance this thing, but it's gonna it's gotta

1263
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: grind away of doing this for a while. It's just like,

1264
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: gave us a really cool, suspenseful thing that will hold

1265
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 1: us over the commercial break, you know and everything. And

1266
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: then of course when they finally they finally materialized, oh

1267
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 1: my god, it's our coworker. Yeah, let's do what I

1268
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: always always loved. I was always loved twenty four because

1269
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: all right, let's get back to something else. Oh yeah,

1270
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 1: so they had no way of knowing. The only way

1271
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 1: they could have known that Annie was I pressed Wick

1272
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: is that they already had her under surveillance. But if

1273
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:47,880
Speaker 1: they already had her under surveillance, they would have known

1274
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: she was not that Christina Borgson that they were looking for.

1275
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: Unless okay, so let's take this a different way. Maybe

1276
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: they did know she was there because they had led

1277
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: her there, because is they didn't think that she was

1278
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: this person, but they were trying to involve her in

1279
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: something else that she could have been an asset. I mean,

1280
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that she could have been in some

1281
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: failed scheme that I'm not even in a guess at

1282
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: and it went south and she was the only one

1283
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: who paid the price. So it may not have been

1284
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: them who killed her, whether it be C I A

1285
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: M I six, whatever Alpha numeric's super name you want,

1286
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: but it could have been that whoever the intended target

1287
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: was that she was there to interact with, did it.

1288
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: Because if I know anything about world intelligence, it's that

1289
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 1: Sweden and Scotland are two of the highest asset places

1290
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: it really are, you know. But I A and M

1291
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 1: I six they like to go everywhere, they get involved,

1292
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 1: everywhere they're not wanted. So it's entirely possible that any

1293
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: of these super spy or zations could have been doing something.

1294
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: Now again, do you think that's the case. We'll give

1295
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: your theory a star. Okay, the look on your face,

1296
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: you're gonna give me some astronomical Yeah. Uh see, I

1297
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 1: was gonna I was just gonna stick the last nail

1298
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: in the CIA thing because this seems to be a

1299
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: very popular theory out there. Well everybody. Yeah, so not

1300
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 1: only a please stop bugging my house? Yeah, dude, just

1301
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: too late for that. But besides the fact that, I

1302
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 1: think it would have been nearly impossible for them to

1303
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 1: mistake the two of them, the Christina Borges and herself,

1304
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: the journalist has said that she never investigated pressed Wick Airport.

1305
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: Of course she'd say that, yeah really, of course I

1306
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't cop to that. Yeah, now that somebody's been killed. Yeah,

1307
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 1: But the other thing about it is is that so

1308
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 1: so I'll make they're doing extraordinary rendition and they're running

1309
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 1: some of their playing sup pressed way. Uh, well, we

1310
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:04,799
Speaker 1: got to cover that up, but really, why bother because

1311
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: it was already in the news by late two thousand five,

1312
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 1: and they really need to be killing people over this

1313
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 1: and yeah, and again Christina Borgesson, Um, I don't think

1314
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: she was investigating it. I was not able to find

1315
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: much out there about rendition by her. Well, so as

1316
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: she has, has this woman broke anything that was of

1317
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: earth shattering proportions? I mean, does she ever been in

1318
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: the beginning of some story that, oh my god, we

1319
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: would our world is completely different because we know this.

1320
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: She's she's one of the big proponents of the reopening

1321
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 1: the nine eleven investigations eleven or two t w A fight. Yeah,

1322
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: uh so, I mean, I guess in that respect maybe,

1323
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: But so she's an uthologist, she's a truth there, truthologists.

1324
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: Truth yeah what I called it, whatever you want, but

1325
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: they're called truths. She she originally used to be a

1326
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 1: producer for CBS News. Nick Cash aired her because she

1327
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't get she just wouldn't let go of the t

1328
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 1: w A flight eight hundred story. Yeah, and so they

1329
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 1: foinally said, okay, crazy out the door and yeah, And

1330
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: she's still best known for for the flight eight hundred story,

1331
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: and that is the one she pushes a lot. I

1332
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 1: found a report Flight eight for anybody who doesn't understand. Yeah,

1333
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: Flight eight hundred is a flight. It was a seven

1334
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: forty seven out of New York GfK Airport. It was

1335
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 1: in and it crashed. It exploded in mid air and

1336
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: crashed and the like long island sound. I think, Oh,

1337
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: and this is the one they say he was shot down.

1338
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: Some people claim that they saw missiles heading towards it. Yeah,

1339
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: and uh, and then it was shot down, either by

1340
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 1: by terrorists or by by the navy. The Navy was

1341
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 1: also nearby shot it down. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, I

1342
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: think that out of all our theories, the I think

1343
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: the suicide and the murder by c are the both

1344
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 1: are both just really out. They're completely out, So murder possible.

1345
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: I'm still I'm still thinking probably accidental drowning. Yeah, there's

1346
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: the more I think about, Like, especially when I looked

1347
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: at the flood maps and realize how high the waters

1348
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 1: were at the time I could see because of the

1349
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: sea going into the ocean when it's such a gentle slope,

1350
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: seemed so implausible to have done herself in. And I

1351
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: know the bags. Still screw this whole thing up. But

1352
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: I could see, based on the water levels of the

1353
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: rivers where something could catch somebody off guard. But I

1354
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't have a good answer for this.

1355
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 1: And the bags. The bags kind of rule out almost

1356
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: everything except accidental drowning. Really when you think about or

1357
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: the body having been dumped thereafter the fact. Yeah, why

1358
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: would you bother with the bags and the jacket? Yeah? Um,

1359
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: well to make it look like she drowned, Well, I guess,

1360
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: but you know, you know, if you should toss him

1361
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 1: up the beach the bay, now the bags, I would

1362
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: leave the bags. If I was gonna fake a murder,

1363
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: I would dump her body in the beach and I

1364
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,719
Speaker 1: would leave the bags at the sea wall. I would

1365
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: leave them up on top of shop round with you,

1366
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: I know, because I've got a criminal mind. I've been

1367
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: to the beach with him, and he will shove you.

1368
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: I have the waterline, it doesn't matter that it's just

1369
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: the foamy bit he shoves you in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1370
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: you remember that last time we were over here and

1371
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: I hand to do that revolver and I said, hey,

1372
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 1: gy A, your fingerprints all over this. We don't do that. Yeah. Yeah,

1373
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 1: all right, So mry sad accident. Um, do you guys

1374
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 1: have any other thoughts? No, I think we've kind of yeah,

1375
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 1: I pasched this one. I think we're good. Yeah, okay,

1376
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: all right. Hey, if you have thoughts of your own

1377
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 1: about this, and I'm sure at least some of you do,

1378
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:58,320
Speaker 1: or if you knew, if you knew Annie, and you'd

1379
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: like to contact us, and please do. Uh. You can

1380
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 1: find us through email at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail

1381
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: dot com. Uh. Let see. You can also find us

1382
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: on Facebook, so like us, follow us, uh and join

1383
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,600
Speaker 1: the group. Yeah, don't try to don't try to friend us,

1384
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: just join the group. Uh. We're also on Twitter at Twitter,

1385
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: we are Thinking the Sideways leaving out the G and

1386
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: of course we are on iTunes. In fact, you probably

1387
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 1: are listening to us through iTunes, but if you're not,

1388
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 1: go listen to iTunes, subscribe, leave us a review, leave

1389
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: us a rating. Yeah. There's also streaming services pretty much

1390
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: all over the place. There's you know, like a billion

1391
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: of them. Uh, and our website if you haven't seen

1392
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: it already, it's Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where you

1393
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 1: can listen to episodes. You can check our links we

1394
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 1: will post links to all that all interesting content for

1395
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 1: the episodes and several representative links. You can also leave comments.

1396
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:02,440
Speaker 1: Please polite comments, supportive, happy comments. We have a subreddit.

1397
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: What was that? Was that subreddit called? I kind of

1398
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: figured that, but I thought i'd ask. And of course

1399
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: we are on Patreon. Patreon is like this service where

1400
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: you pledge a certain amount per episode or totally optional.

1401
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 1: Don't feel like you have to do it, just helps

1402
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: you free costs. And by the way, because again we

1403
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: are gotten lazy. For everybody who has gone on Patreon,

1404
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: or for everybody who has gone on to the papal,

1405
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: thank you very appreciate. Mean to say this more often,

1406
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: and we don't say it really thank you. Yeah, we

1407
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: do appreciate you. Guys. We're gonna do something nice with you,

1408
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 1: like I don't know what say thank you on our show.

1409
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll do that. I said. You go out

1410
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: to patreon dot com slash thinking sideways and you know,

1411
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: donate to your heart's content or not whatever. H So

1412
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:55,200
Speaker 1: that's it for this week. You guys got any more thoughts? Yeah?

1413
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: I mean either um anyway, UM, So I guess it'll

1414
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,040
Speaker 1: be next week we'll talk about another dead prayer and

1415
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: probably or something. All Right, we'll talk to you next week. Everybody,

1416
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 1: all right, Bye, everybody,