1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Tickless. And 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: in this podcast, we are speaking to you from a maze, 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: from a maze that is being constructed all around us 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: here at the house Stuff Works offices in Atlanta. Turns 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: out we we shuffled around the floor a little bit 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: and just decided on a whim, let's create a complex 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: architectural structure all around us. I can hear them building 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: it even now, making it even more complicated. Uh so 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: we may not be able to make our way back 12 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: to our desk when we're done with this episode. Well, 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: the funny thing about this is that about a couple 14 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: of weeks ago or so, you noticed construction workers going 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: around and take measuring going on, and you made the 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: joke then that they we're going to wallace in Little 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: did we know that that this maze, the maze that 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: we are already working in, was going to become even 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 1: more elaborate. Yes, because it is. The maze is is about, 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: in a way, elaborate confinement. It's about confusion, It's about 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: being cut off it's about not knowing which way you're 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: going and which way is the way out, and if 23 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: there is even a way out, if there is a 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: limit to the confusing layout that just flows out all 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: around you. Now, one thing that's important to mention here, 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna mention this not only in 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: this episode but the part two of this series to follow. 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: But essentially, you have mazes and you have labyrinths, and 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: very often these words are used interchangeably. One would be 30 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: tempted to say it's elegant variation, which is when you 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: use uh, like when you're talking about a wolf, but 32 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: you use the word dog to describe it. You just 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: wanted to mix it up and use a different word, 34 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: but you're actually using a word for a different thing. Well, 35 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,639 Speaker 1: mazes and labyrinth is is it quite that bad? Because 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: the overlap between these two terms has been around for 37 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: ae aisle and it's become pretty much the you know, 38 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: pretty much a mainstay of the English language. So uh, 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: you can't get too up in arms over it. But 40 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: for the purposes of this podcast and and also scientific purposes, 41 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: you have mazes, which are a place of confusion, a 42 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: place of beatings on the walls as we're hearing now, 43 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: and then you have labyrinths, and labyrinth says we'll discuss 44 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: in the second podcast more in depth, are a place 45 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: of serenity. That's right, it's really a yin and yang 46 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: proposition here, because yes, maze tangle of options, choices, right, confusion, 47 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: and the labyrinths neatly laid out a meandering path, but 48 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: one that has a purpose in a direction to it. 49 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: So right now we are going to tackle mazes. And 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: as we say, we are podcasting today from a construction 51 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: zone of our maze like office. Um, and we should 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: probably get into more other or other examples of mazes, 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: because when you think of mazes, or at least when 54 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: I do you, I tend to think of the elaborate 55 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: hedge mazes popular in the sixteen through the eighteen centuries. Yes, 56 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: you have basically you can divide mazes up into two 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: or three categories. Well, first, there are two basic categories. 58 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: There are mazes that exist in physical space and mazes 59 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: that exist merely as pattern or as you know, it's 60 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: something drawn on a sheet of paper. Uh. For the 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: most part, we're gonna be talking in this podcast though, 62 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: about actual physical mazes that you traverse physically, and these 63 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: you tend to see landscape mazes and architectural mazes, mazes 64 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: that are made out of you could do dirt, but 65 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: most of the time hedges, and then there are architectural mazes, 66 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: whereas it is an actual physical thing walls enclosing you. 67 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: Everyone will probably think back to the classic Jim Hinson 68 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: David Bowie starring film Labyrinth, which, despite being called Labyrinth, 69 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: everything in the movie is amaze. Everything is about confusing 70 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: because Sarah has to get to the castle at the 71 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: center so that she can free Toby from the Goblin King, 72 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: but nobody wants her to actually get there. The Goblin 73 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: King doesn't actually want women showing up and stealing has 74 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: stolen babies from him, so and there's a neat little 75 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: number like a Magic Song by David Bowie which he's 76 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: tossing this baby around and by the way, he looks 77 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: like Parker Posey to me in in a Tina Turner 78 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: wig in this and there's a lot of heavy pop 79 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: synthesizers going on. It's it's pretty awesome stuff. It is 80 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: an awesome movie, but pretty much everything you see in 81 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: there is is a maze. From the early stone mazes 82 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: that Sarah is going through, where it's very much an 83 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: architectural maze with walls all around her, until later she's 84 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: going through a landscape maze of hedges. Elsewhere, people may 85 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: have encountered mazes in the form of corn mazes where 86 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: someone cuts a maze through the maze and nice and 87 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: you have to an around how the mean time? That's 88 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: certainly and every year in the news there's always an 89 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: account of a family getting lost in one of those mazes. Oh, 90 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: I haven't. I've never seen one of those, and I've 91 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: worked in small papers for quite a while in the past, 92 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: so it's strange that we never had that story. Well, 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: and then they're never found again. Are you sure that 94 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: you're just you didn't used to live near a particularly 95 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: bad a maze where they really went overboard. I'm making 96 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: it complex and uh an unescapable. No, no, no. And 97 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: then there's like these like sort of evilish children that 98 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: are dressed in amish like clothing milling around. Yeah, yeah, 99 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: you've not heard about No, I guess this is this 100 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: is one of your hometown. Yeah, it's pretty common elsewhere 101 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: in uh. In fiction, um mazes have factored into Harry 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: Potter and the Goblet to fire the big climactic scene, 103 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: and that takes place within a maze. Harry's running around 104 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: completely disoriented, doesn't know where he's going, and trying, you know, 105 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to escape the maze or 106 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: make it to the center. I believe it was. What 107 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: I like about that man Is too, is that the 108 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: maze is alive, the root system is, you know, trying 109 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: to tangle them and pull them in. And likewise, in Labyrinth, 110 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: the maze that Sarah finds herself in is constantly changing there, 111 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: like little goblin dudes running around and like changing her 112 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: markings and presumably changing the actual physical layout of the 113 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: of the maze behind her. Another fabulous maze uh in 114 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: film is that in The Shining Oh yeah, now it's 115 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: different from in the book. There there's just some hedge 116 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: animals that are creepy and move when you're not looking 117 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: at them. But in Stanley Kubrick's phenomenal film vision of 118 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: the novel, he incorporates this this maze, this giant hedge maze, 119 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: and there's a model of the hedge maze, and and 120 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: the maze comes to symbolize the house itself because the house, 121 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: the Haunted Overlook Hotel, is also a sort of maze, 122 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: and then, curiously enough, like another maze we're about to discuss, 123 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: there is a deadly person at the deadly to be 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: at the center of it. In the Shining, it's Jack Torrence, 125 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: the writer, who ends up becoming possessed by the evil 126 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 1: of the place and then is hunting his family through 127 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: both the maze that is the house and then in 128 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: the actual hedge maze out there in the cold. What 129 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: I really like about that may is too, is that 130 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: it's got those um those feelings of isolation, terror and 131 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: then disorientation in that maze. And we'll talk more about 132 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: that in in Our Fear Response, our stress response to 133 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: um as we go through mazes, but to me, that 134 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: captures that perfectly. There's also an excellent fictional maze in 135 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: House of Leaves by Mark z Danielski. Basically, the book 136 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: itself is a maze, and there are all these footnotes 137 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: and footnotes upon footnotes, and there's a story within a 138 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: story in a documentary film within a story, and the 139 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: character himself, this guy Navidson, ends up trying to traverse, 140 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: trying to explore this ever changing, featureless, black, otherworldly maze 141 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: that branches out from this haunted house presumably haunted, but 142 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: you never really know exactly what's going on with this place. 143 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: The name of the Rose by Umberto Echo is pretty great, 144 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: and that it features a library that is itself a maze. 145 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: And this is based in large part on your hey 146 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: Louis Borhes the Library of Babble, where Borhees described an 147 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: infinite library maze that contains not only all books, but 148 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: all possible books. So it just spreads out forever. And 149 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: so in the name of the Rose, Umberto Echo creates 150 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: within this mediaval Abbey, this this maze library of forbidden 151 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: and restricted books. In writing about it, he says that 152 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: this is this library is what it's called a rhizome space, 153 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: which means there's there's virtually no end to it. You 154 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: could wander this thing forever without finding an exit unless 155 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: you knew how to escape the maze. But perhaps the 156 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: most famous and and just the most iconic maze from 157 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: from myth and fiction and legend is of course the 158 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: maze Minos. Yes, and this is the tale of theseus correct, 159 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: the hero and the minotaur, who is at the center 160 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: of what they call Again there's confusion between labyrinth and maze, 161 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: but is at the middle of this and is waiting 162 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: for people to come through and devour them, yes, and 163 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: kind of wandering the halls and howling and the maze 164 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: in this it was commanded to be built by King Minos, 165 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: who has this monstrous son that is the Minotar, this 166 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: half half man and half animal. Yes, yeah, monstrous flesh 167 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: eating creature. So he has Daedalus, who of course silt 168 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: the wings for his son Icarus, just you know, the 169 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: fantastic engineer of Hellenistic lore. He's commanded to build and 170 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: and in fact builds a maze so complicated that he 171 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: himself has trouble escaping from it at one point. But 172 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: this becomes just the sort of the defining idea of 173 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: a maze, this complex, confusing place that you're trapped in, 174 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: you're trying to escape, and then with the Minotaur, you 175 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: have this added threat that you were not alone in 176 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: this confusing space, this confusing, unreal world. There's also something 177 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: that is searching for you, something that or even if 178 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: it's not searching for you, you may run into it. 179 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: And if you run into it, it's all over yeah, 180 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: and we will talk a little bit more about the 181 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: minotaur as represented by our consciousness and a bit and 182 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: how our mind is a bit like a maze. But 183 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: I did want to mention that a a non fictional 184 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: maze that is probably what you could call the mother 185 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: of mazes UM is known as the Hampton Court Maze, 186 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: and this is outside of London. It is really an 187 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: iconic maze. Um. It is at the Hampton Court Palace 188 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: and it's thought that it was designed around six nine, 189 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: originally planted using horn beam and later we planted using 190 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: you and it covers a third of an acre. It's 191 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: trapezoid in shape and it is the UK's oldest surviving 192 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: catch mazing. I'm in fact, I'm sure listeners some of 193 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: religensis in the UK have actually experienced this firsthand. At 194 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: the time. It was constructed to amuse the ladies and 195 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: lords of the court, which I think is so I 196 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: love this idea. It's so fascinating to me that people 197 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: have so much time on their hands that it wasn't 198 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: enough to have a palace and have all the extravagance 199 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: of a palace and servants. Then you had to create 200 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: a maze out on your lawn in order to amuse 201 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: the people within the palace, something that would actually um 202 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: excite fear in your visitors to the maze, right, yeah, 203 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: you were. You lined it yesterday when we were talking 204 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: about it too. U to to like a horror movie 205 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: in a in an age when you didn't have horror movies, 206 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: uh uh. And and certainly you can also liken it 207 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: to a roller coaster. It is an artificial construction designed 208 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: to create these feelings of fear and anxiety in the 209 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: individuals who are traversing it. So it's interesting to me 210 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: that the upper class just you know, on a special 211 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: note that you would be so free from concerns or troubles, 212 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: you would have to create this this uh, three D 213 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: representation of fear to put yourself through that experience. Um. 214 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: And of course we do that today with with haunted houses. 215 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: But what is cool about Hampton Court Maze is that 216 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: this is the maze that really helped to inform science. 217 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is there was a 218 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: graduate student named Willard Small. He was the first to 219 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: use a rodent maze to study learning, and he did 220 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: this in nineteen o one, and he created a platform 221 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: about six ft long by eight feet wide, covered it 222 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: with sawdust and then divided it into galleries with walls 223 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: of wire netting, and he modeled it on a diagram 224 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: of the Hedge maze at Hampton Court. So this was 225 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: such a famous maze in the minds of everybody, particularly 226 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: during the tuner of the century, that it really helped 227 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: um this particular student to create this thing that really 228 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: took off in science at least for a good sixty years. Yeah, 229 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: because even after they stopped using the rep like of 230 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: the Hampton Court Maze, which which from above looks it's 231 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: it's weirdly shaped like it's kind of like a hacked 232 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: off pyramid, kind of like a a weird battle axe 233 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: looking design. It's it's strange looking go kind of like 234 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: a robot woman's hips. It's interesting battle ax because uh, 235 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: laborra is I means yeah, acts in in um in Greek, 236 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: and so that's when you look at the root of labyrinth, 237 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: it is acts. But anyway, but even after they stopped 238 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: using the Hampton Maze, they use a simplified version of 239 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: it called the Elevated Plus Maze, which basically look like 240 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: a plus sign. In other words, it's two hallways that 241 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: they cross over each other. Uh, And it's like the 242 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: simplest may as possible because it sends the mouse or 243 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: whatever that's inside it. It's they come to a point 244 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: where they have three choices. They can go left, they 245 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: can go right, they can go forward or well presumably 246 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: they could go backwards as well. So it's it's a 247 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: simplified version of the of the maze. The maze in brief, 248 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, But what are they trying to to study 249 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: with all of this? Right? It comes back to how 250 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: a maze makes us feel. When I've touched on this 251 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: a little bit already, it's when you're inside of a maze, 252 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: you feel, first of all, you feel confined. You're definitely 253 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: in a strange place. You you don't know which way 254 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: to go. Should I go this way? Should I go 255 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: that way? If I go if I go this way, 256 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: am I going to run into a dead end? Everyone 257 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: hates running into a dead end? That just I mean, 258 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: you think of actual real world versions of this, like 259 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: if you've ever been in a um well to say 260 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: the haunted, take a haunted house. You know, haunted house 261 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: is not a complete maze, because nobody wants to build 262 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: a professional haunted attraction where people go in and have 263 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: trouble getting out, because, if we discussed in our Science 264 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: of Haunted Houses episode, you've got to move a certain 265 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: amount of people through that haunted house to make money. 266 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: You need people going in, you need people going out 267 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: at at a decent click. But at another world hunted 268 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: house in Atlanta, they frequently do have this section that's 269 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: kind of a mirror maze where you do at least 270 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: momentarily become disoriented and not know and you don't know 271 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: which way to go, and so that raises your anxiety. 272 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: You you feel stressful because you're like, well, I thought, 273 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: this is what how do I get out of here? 274 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: Which way am I supposed to be going? And I 275 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: find in those environments too, not only another world, but 276 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: also in like real world environments like a museum, there's 277 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: also that that anxiety where you reach like a weird 278 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: kind of a part of the museum where you wonder 279 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: if this is off limits, like maybe they didn't they 280 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: didn't make it clear enough, and I'm wandering into restricted 281 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: territory or likewise, any new city that you're in, you're 282 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: wandering around and you're wondering, am I wandering into a 283 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: restricted space. Is someone gonna yell at me for being here? 284 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: And I could start getting anxious about that because I 285 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: hate it, you know, when I'm in trouble somebody yelling 286 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: at me? And then second, am I wandering into a 287 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: contested space, which, especially in big cities, you're like, am 288 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: I wandering into a no man's land of post apocalyptic 289 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: violence and luggings and faith stabbings? I you know, I 290 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, And that raises your instincts and your 291 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: anxiety and you're just on edge of the whole time. 292 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: Well because in in uh, in my world, I think 293 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: of it as just a microcosm of the minotaur in 294 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: your head already, right, So within our own minds we 295 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: can think of them as mazes. In particular, we can 296 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: think about the default mode network. Um. This is three 297 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: areas of the brain, the medial prefrontal cortex, the medial 298 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: parietal cortex in the medial temporal lobes we've talked about 299 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: these before, being the default mode network, and this is 300 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: the area of your brain that deals with the eye 301 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: of ourselves, the chattering um sort of subconscious level where 302 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: we sit there and we turn over things that concern 303 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: ourselves and our ego. And this is really where you 304 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: start to see that the mind is like a maze 305 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: in this sense. Because you're going through these thought loops 306 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: that you've probably gone through a million times in your 307 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: life about certain subjects. They tend to come up in 308 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: this area of the brain, right, these concerns that you 309 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: have usually about yourself. And it's kind of like a 310 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: hyperactive chat room for your brain, and it acts like 311 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: an echo chamber in this sense. And we've talked about 312 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: this before that when you have hyperactivity in this part 313 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: of the brain, it can lead to clinical depression. Right. 314 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: So that's why I say that this default mode network 315 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: is really something that's maze that we deal with every day. Yeah, 316 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: we sort of we backtrack and we wander the confusing 317 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: corridors of the past. We try and skip ahead a 318 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: little bit and figure out where we're going in the future. 319 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: And for many of us the whole time there well, 320 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: for all of us, there are certain minotaurs out there 321 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: in that maze as well. I mean, of course the 322 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: big one is dead. Uh, that beast is out there somewhere. 323 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: Maybe he is around the corner, maybe he is on 324 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: the other side. Of the maze entirely with many many 325 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: walls between you and it, but you know it's there 326 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: and you always hear it's howling. I love that you 327 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: brought that up, because when I was thinking about mazes 328 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: and I was thinking about how a maze is really 329 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: a concrete manifest station of our abstract mind me, I 330 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: began to think about Sarah Winchester. We have an article 331 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: that concerns her. Yeah. Yeah, she is the Winchester rifle 332 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: heiress who at the turn of the century believed herself 333 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: to be haunted by the victims of the rifles that 334 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: her husband's company produced. And now she had something traumatic 335 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: events that happened in her life. She lost her child 336 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: and her husband, and after that, for thirty eight years 337 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: her house was constantly under construction and she was changing 338 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: the configuration of her house really to create a maze. 339 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: And the reason that she did that is she wanted 340 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: to confuse the spirits the ghosts of of the people 341 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: that she thought were killed by those rifles. So if 342 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: you've ever visited the house this is in San Jose, California, 343 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: you may have firsthand seen that there are false stairways 344 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: to know where there are something like forty seven chimneys 345 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: in the house. Um. Some of them are built all 346 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: the way up, some of them are not. Some of 347 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: them actually aren't working chimneys, fireplaces, um. And at some 348 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: point I believe there are five hundred rooms constructed, but 349 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: she would have them demolished and then rebuilt. So here 350 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: you go, I mean, here's talk about the hyperactivity of 351 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: this part of the brain that is concerned with, um, 352 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: you know, fear and uh, the self. This is someone 353 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: who you can really see her own brain being manifested 354 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: in the design of our house. Well, and it's in 355 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: the way. It's uh, it's kind of just another take 356 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: on the old idea that if you you have a 357 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: criminal that needs to be executed, you hang them at 358 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: crossroads so that they'll have difficulty finding their way back 359 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: to their hometown where they can haunt everybody and be 360 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: a menace. So been in what is a crossroads but 361 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: a plus maze, like we discussed earlier, we've you've placed 362 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: the mouse at the center the rat at the center 363 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: of the plus nates. No, the rat has no which, 364 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: no idea which way to go. So presume the ghost 365 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: of and of an executed murder is there at the crossroots, 366 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: has no idea what to go. Maybe he locks down 367 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: and doesn't go anywhere. Maybe he heads off in the 368 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: wrong direction, and and and this is so cool because 369 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: again this is this idea of disorientation. We're gonna take 370 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: a quick break, but when we get back, we're going 371 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: to talk about anxiety disorientation in mazes. All right, we're back, 372 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: and I do want to mention that is we're getting 373 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: into the way mazes affect our mind and our body. 374 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: Text that we found particularly helpful in this was The 375 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: Science of Healing Places by Esther M. Steinberg. Just a 376 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: fabulous book from beginning to end, and it deals with 377 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: how spaces affect us, how the layout of a space 378 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: or the particulars of an environment can have a beneficial 379 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: effect on us or a detrimental effect on us. And 380 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: in a large sense, the purest distillation of this idea 381 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: is the idea of maze and labyrinth. And in this 382 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: podcast were of course talking about the maze. Uh And 383 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, it's just this the mazes is amazing, 384 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: and that it is this kind of perfect physical manifestation 385 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: of an idea are even more than an idea, just 386 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: like a state of mind, a state of the world. 387 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: Like in a way, the mazes this perfect manifestation of 388 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: the of the human experience in its confusing sense, you know, 389 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: like I thought, I it makes me think of the 390 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: obelisk from the Monolith rather from two thousand and one 391 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey. You know, it's just that you can 392 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: basically just thinking about it, you can sort of catch 393 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: the hum Yeah, you know, we are talking about mazes 394 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: in a very literal sense today, but if you took 395 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: a bird's eye view of yourself right now, in this 396 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: time and space, you would see that you are in 397 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: a maze somewhere right even if you're just walking down 398 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: the city block, you are within a maze. Um. But 399 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: what is so interesting about mazes is this idea that 400 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: in as you say that the purest sense is taking 401 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: all of those different senses of the way that we 402 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: perceive the world in creating this this construct that really 403 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: amplifies all those feelings. And so when we talk about 404 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: new experiences and uh, we talk about how we perceive things, 405 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: there's some anxiety that comes along with that. Yeah, Now, 406 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: stress and anxiety. So stress is not a new idea. 407 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: People have been stressed out for ages. For instance, the 408 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: ancient Romans used a word string array, which means to squeeze, tight, 409 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: to graze, to touch, or injure. But it wasn't until 410 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: around ninety six a Nature article by scientists Hans Zeely 411 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: published this article where he talked about stress in the 412 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: terms of a body's non specific response to an external demand. 413 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: And in ninety four physiologist Walter B. Canon for the 414 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: first time show that animals produce adrenaline in response to stress. 415 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: And this is the first proof that environments trigger bodily 416 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: responses like this, And so in the decade is that 417 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: follow we learn even more about how the brain response 418 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: to stress. For instance, hormones and chemicals in the brain 419 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: are released to deal with stress. Namely, we have a 420 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: stress hormone called c r H that's corticotra pent releasing 421 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: hormone UH, and this forces the peteritary gland to pump 422 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: out more a c t H and this travels through 423 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: the blood to the adrenal glands and this makes them 424 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: pump out cortisol Corso, of course being in the stress 425 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: hormone and all of us is really important. You want 426 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: to be able to tap into this stress response. Right, 427 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: this fear response, because that's really what helps us to 428 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: tune into the details in a novel place or situation 429 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: in order to detect the way out to survive in 430 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: some way. That's when we see the whites of our 431 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: eyes getting even larger because we're trying to really pay 432 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: attention to our environments. The problem, of course, comes when 433 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: we're overloaded with a stress response, and when we're in 434 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: this state of fear for longer than we need to be. 435 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this in a bit too. Uh, 436 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: when the situation doesn't necessarily call for the stress response, 437 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: that is elicited, right right. Because again, when the when 438 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: the stress mormons kick in, the nerve cells fired to 439 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: release an adrenaline like nerve chemical called nora a pineffine, 440 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: and this is this is when the brain's fear center, 441 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: the amigla, becomes active. And again adrenaline is important, and 442 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: we'll discuss that a little more as we go here. 443 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: But this is how you want to feel inside of 444 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: a maze, because the maze triggers anxiety and stress because 445 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: of essentially four things. According to S. C. In Steinberg. 446 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: First of all, you're in an architectural maze or even 447 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 1: a hedge maze, what can you see? What are you 448 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: seeing around you? With your site? This key sense of 449 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: it really just whatever's on either side. Right. So of 450 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: course with blinders, yeah, it's like blinder here, blinder there. 451 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: You can see a little ways in front of you, 452 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: turn around, you can see a little ways behind you. 453 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: But for the most part, your sense of the world 454 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: via site is really limited. And the next one is 455 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: one that I never really thought about all that, But 456 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: you have no clear sound to guide you either, because 457 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: if you're if you're in a hedge maze, there's gonna 458 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: be a certain amount of sound buffering, and then if 459 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: you're in an actual architectural maze, you can have sound 460 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: buffering plus the potential for echoes as well, like, for instance, 461 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: the sound of that minotaur is how echoing through the tunnels. 462 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: So already our site, our ability to see the world 463 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: is a significantly altered in our ability to to navigate 464 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: the world via sound is significantly altered. Right. And I 465 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: don't know if the listeners can detect this, but there 466 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: was just a bunch of hammering going on, and I 467 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: was just thinking, like, we're inside of our little maze 468 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: right now, inside the podcast. I have no idea what 469 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: direction that's kind I don't either. I can feel it, 470 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: actually can feel it on my feet, but I know 471 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: it that's not under me. I know it's not probably 472 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: on the other side of the wall. But again, here's 473 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: this idea that you can't get your normal sound clues correct, Um, 474 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: you have limited vision, you have a new alien environment. Yeah. Again, 475 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: this is like a maze, like a straight up maze, 476 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: like out of the shining. This is an unreal environment, 477 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: and it's like and it's purest sense, it's it maybe 478 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: an analog for confusion in the mind and puzzles of 479 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: the mind, and maybe an analog for potentially confusing environments 480 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: in the natural world and certainly in the unnatural world 481 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: of cities. But this is its purest sense. It is 482 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: alien in every sense of the word. And the worst 483 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: part of it is you now have choices, and you 484 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: have uncertainty along with that novelty. And think about your 485 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: poor hippocampus. This is the part of your brain that 486 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: is trying to navigate right spatially and is using usually 487 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: using memory to do this. So it's a little bit 488 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: like if you were dropped into a new city and 489 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: you had to find your bearings. What happens, you feel 490 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: stressed out, You feel a little bit more aware, because 491 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: this is part of your brain that's saying, I don't 492 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: have a blueprint for this, and I don't know what 493 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: is the right choice. Yeah, like for us, like I know, 494 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: when I go to New York City, I certainly don't 495 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: go there enough to where I know my way around. 496 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: So when I emerged from a subway out onto the street, 497 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: I'll have no idea which way is north, which way 498 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: the south? What does that street sign say out there? 499 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: Which is that one? Stay back there? Did I take 500 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: the wrong course? Am I completely out of bounds here 501 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: in regards to where I'm trying to get to? And 502 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: and certainly even taking something like Atlanta's Marta every day, 503 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: which is basically a plus uh plus marking because it's north, 504 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: north and southeast and west. But but still, especially at 505 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: the at the very center of that, the center of confusion, 506 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: which is a place called the five Um, you do 507 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: see outsiders and tourists and people who normally don't take 508 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: the train wandering around confused, and you can see the 509 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: feel of the anxiety and the stress is coming off 510 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: them because they're like where am I? Which way am 511 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: I going? And what are all these mentors doing here? 512 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's so sad when you see 513 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: them gobbled up in the corners of the station by 514 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: the minotaurs. But this reminds me again of the rats, 515 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: and back to the Hampton Court maze, because again this 516 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: is the maze that inspired the elevated plus line maze. 517 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: And the reason why rats were studied in this configuration 518 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: is because it's really easy to study anxiety in this 519 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: as you have pointed out, because you make an animal 520 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: feel anxiety, it's just bamed. Put them in that space 521 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: and the environment makes them feel it. And the reason 522 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: why rats had such a run with these mazes, so 523 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: to speak, is because you know, pharmacological studies began with 524 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: us to see if they could use certain substances to 525 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: reduce that anxiety, and so they had rats run these 526 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: mazes again and again. In fact, rats became the gold 527 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: standard of animals to use in psychology experiments. So again 528 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: what Esther Serberg is saying that when you have all 529 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: of these different elements, you have a novelty, you have 530 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: a restriction in sight and sound, and you have in 531 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: the case of the elevated plus sign elevation to throw 532 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: into that. Uh, the rat will actually freeze at these 533 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: points that offer what she says, the most frightening combination 534 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: of choices available. Yeah, and we're like freezing. We're talking 535 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: increased defication, elevations of cortisol, the stress hormone in the blood. 536 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: And it is vital to point out that it's important 537 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: to have that stress hormone. Um, it helps us solve 538 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: the maze if if balanced, It focuses our attention, it 539 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: gives us energy, It raises our awareness of the surroundings 540 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: so that we notice the small details that they lead 541 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: to our escape. Do you think of any story where 542 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: an individual is in a maze, what do they have 543 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: to do? They have to their their own guard. They 544 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: might have to face a minuteur for crying out loud, 545 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: But then they also have to be super observant because 546 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: especially if the mazes kind of featureless, right, Uh, maybe 547 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: they're marking stuff on the walls with chalk or they're 548 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: using string whatever, but they you have to you can't 549 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: just calmly walk through. This is a confusing, challenging environment. Again, 550 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: it's the representation of all the confusion and risks in 551 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: the real world and you're feeling at all legitimately in 552 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: the maze. Yeah, And she talks about this dose effect 553 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: in this beneficial stress response as opposed to something that 554 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: becomes detrimental and uh. In the book, she talks about 555 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: Gary Aston Jones. He's a neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania, 556 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: and what he did is he embedded electrodes into the 557 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: brains of monkeys, specifically a place called the locusts cerulius, 558 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: and this is the region that governs vigilance, focused attention, 559 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: and the adrenaline component of the stress response. And what 560 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: happened is that when the monkeys were relaxed, there was 561 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: just a little bit of nerve cell firing in this 562 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: part of the brain, But when they were focusing on 563 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: something like pressing a lever to obtain a pellet of food, 564 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: there was a lot of nerve cell firing in the 565 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: locust cerelius. So this is a good thing, right. You 566 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: see the monkey performing at optimal levels under stress to 567 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: a certain degree, but when the researchers stressed them a 568 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: lot all of the nerve cells began firing in this 569 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: Sisternberg is what led to the monkey failing at the 570 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: task that the researchers were putting them to. So again, 571 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: it's this overload of circuitry in the stress response that 572 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: makes us freeze at times. Yuh Steinberg compares it to 573 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: a U shaped curve. Think of it this way. You 574 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: have a speech to give, kind of like our keynote 575 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: that we gave in Minneapolis. So you want to go 576 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: in there with a certain amount of of of energy. Right, 577 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: you're about to give a keynote. You don't want to 578 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: be like I just woke up, you know, you gotta Yeah, 579 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: you want to have a certain amount of energy. So 580 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: this U shaped curve, it's like a little hill. Okay, 581 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: So as our anxiety rises up towards the middle of 582 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: this hill, at the very top of that hill, that 583 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: is like prime keynote territory, You're you're the maximum amount 584 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: amount of energy and anxiety and stress that will allow 585 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: you to get in there and just kill you know, 586 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: to just get in there and deliver on all the front. 587 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: You're alert and focus. Right, But then is that if 588 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: that anxiety builds past that point, then it begins to 589 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: dip down. Uh, and at the bottom of that hill 590 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: is freezing up pooping yourself and falling off the stage 591 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 1: like utter a complete so much stress over it that 592 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: you cannot even function at a basic human level. And 593 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: then everywhere between the peak of that hill and the 594 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: bottom that you know, all the other things that can happen, 595 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: where all that speech didn't really go too well. My 596 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: nerves were a little fraid, you know. So you shaped 597 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: curve and so the ideally, if you're in the maze, 598 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: you want to uh be somewhere near the top of 599 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: that curve, at the top of that hill, because that 600 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: is the mindset that you need to solve the maze, 601 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: and it's the mindset that your body is going for, 602 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: Like that's where you're That's why you're having these responses 603 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: because the body is like, this is confusing. Let's get 604 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: in maze solving mode. Well, and here's the deal. If 605 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: if just some practical advice here, if anybody is going 606 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: to give a keynote address and they feel like they 607 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: are about to go down the hill into self defecation, 608 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: take that moment to actually stand in a powerful pose. 609 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: We talked about this before, um because this pose, if 610 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: if you stand in it for two minutes or more, 611 00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: we'll actually decrease your cortisol stress levels and increase is 612 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: your testosterone. Then increase of the testosterone is important because 613 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: that helps your confidence. The lowering of the cortisol stress 614 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: means that you will not poop your pants, So just 615 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 1: a little f y either. So what other methods are 616 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: at our disposal for escaping a maze? Solving a maze? 617 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: How are we going to get out of this maze 618 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: and somehow make it back to our chairs and our 619 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: deaths and presumably our families and homes. Okay, well, um, 620 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: here is what many people say is the best way 621 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: to solve a maze, and it's called the right hand trick. 622 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: That's sometimes called the left hand trick because it doesn't 623 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: really matter which hand. You just keep a hand on 624 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: one wall and it doesn't matter which one, just pick 625 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: left or right when you enter, and then you follow 626 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: the path and keep that hand as you are following 627 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: that path this way, if you get to a dead end, 628 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: you can negotiate it by just following the three walls 629 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: and then moving back the way that you came out, 630 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: and eventually you will find the exit. This is the 631 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: idea right now. This usually works with most mazes, but 632 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: if the maze has a central blank area occupied by 633 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: a second maze, then your toast it's not gonna work. Well. Certainly, 634 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: you can follow theseus's advice and have some yarn with 635 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: you or some string, and throw that behind you, and 636 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: just hope that nothing is going to follow in your 637 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: wake to disrupt the path you're setting for yourself. In 638 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: the name of the Rose, the character of Brother William 639 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: of Baskerville says, to find the way out of a labyrinth, 640 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: that there is only one means. At every new junction 641 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: never seen before, the path we have taken will be 642 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: marked with three signs. If because of previous signs on 643 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: some of the paths of the junction, you see that 644 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: the junction has already been visited, you will make only 645 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: one mark on the path you have taken. If all 646 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: the apertures have already been marked, then you must retrace 647 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: your steps. And he continues a little bit on this line, 648 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: and then add so that the younger monk that he's 649 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: he's taking with him on this journey says, how do 650 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: you know that? Are you an expert on labyrinth? And 651 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: he says, no, I'm citing an ancient text I once 652 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: read and and so asked, and by observing this rule 653 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: you get out and he says, almost never as far 654 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: as I know, but we will still try it all 655 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: the same. So, so you're gonna have to be patient 656 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: with the maze, I guess it's and you're gonna have 657 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: to You're gonna have to remain calm but alert, be 658 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: very aware of your surroundings and uh, and don't be 659 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: afraid to make some marks and notations. Um. And two 660 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: other thoughts of comfort here. One is that we have 661 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: learned this before. We've talked about this. Uh, that a 662 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: rat's brain during sleep sometimes mimics what happens during the day. 663 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: So rats and a maze, you can actually see the 664 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: specific patterns of neurons fired in the rats brains while 665 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: running a lab maze that appeared that day, um, and 666 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 1: then during rem sleep for those rats. So in other words, 667 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: rats can dream about the maze that they've been in 668 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 1: and they can try to figure out a better way 669 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: to approach it next time. So they can learn to 670 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: navigate a maze given maze, they can actually Yeah, they 671 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 1: can be trained to do this, and humans do. Any 672 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: even who lives in a city, has learned to navigate 673 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: a maze. Yeah. And part of this training, of course, 674 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: has to do with rem sleep and going over this 675 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: material again and again. So just that that, to me 676 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: is very comforting when I think about getting out of 677 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: a maze. And if you are an amazing and you're 678 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 1: feeling lots of anks, maybe you're in a city, a 679 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: new city, or a true maze itself, or you're drawing 680 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: amaze or trying to get out of one that's on 681 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: a piece of paper. Uh, here's what you should do. 682 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: You should start to think about the Benny Hialthy music 683 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: because this apparently is very helpful. I think it decreases anxiety. 684 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: And I say this because I watched the clip of 685 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 1: the Shining that was scored to the Benny Hialthy music 686 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: and it was far less framing. And if you want 687 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: to see that, check out the blog post that accompanies 688 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: this this podcast episode. All right, well, I think I 689 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: hear the minotaur calling, so we probably need to wrap 690 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: this up. I do want to close out with a 691 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 1: poem by your hey Lewis Borees, who again was obsessed 692 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: with mazes and labyrinths and mirrors and all matter of 693 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: mentally complex arrangements, and this is his poem called the Labyrinth, 694 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: but it really sums up the feeling of being an 695 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: amaze Zeus himself could not undo the way of stone 696 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: closing around me. I've forgotten the men I was before. 697 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: I followed the hated path of monotonous walls. That is 698 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: my destiny, severe galleries which curve in secret circles to 699 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: the end of the years, parapets cracked by the day's usury. 700 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: In the pale dust, I have discerned signs that frightened me. 701 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: In the concave evenings, the air has carried a roar 702 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: toward me, or the echo of a desolate How I 703 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: know there is another in the shadows whose fate it 704 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: is to wear out the long solitudes which weave and 705 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: unweave this hades, and to long for my blood and 706 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: devour my death. Each of us seeks the other, if 707 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: only this were the final day of waiting. So yeah, 708 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: that that one gives me chills. All right, So hey, um, 709 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: we've got a little long So we're not going to 710 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: call the robot over here with the listener mail. It 711 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: will take him forever to find us in this He's 712 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: stuck out there in amaze any So I do want 713 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: to close by saying, if you you want to reach 714 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: out to us, we would love to hear from you, 715 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: particularly about mazes. Is there a maze and fiction, uh 716 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: that that we've neglected to mention? I'm sure there are. 717 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: Let us know about them if you think they're really engaging. 718 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear people's thoughts on mazes and video 719 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: games because I was looking around and it looks like 720 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: earlier in the video game history, like up until you know, 721 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: possibly the early nineties, you saw more maze games, games 722 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: that were that the idea of a maze was just 723 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: the very concept of the game itself. Um and our 724 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: producer Matt Frederick said that I think Ultima Online had 725 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: a maze in it. I'm I'm to understand that sky 726 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: Rim has a maze somewhere in it, but I certainly 727 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: haven't found it yet, uh, But but I just wonder 728 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 1: it has. Is the maze in a video game? Is 729 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: it's something that we've kind of forgotten. And I'm talking 730 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: about an actual maze where when you're in it, whether 731 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: it's an above view of the game or you're you know, 732 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: third or first persons view, where you're actually confused and 733 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: unable to find your way out. Just an open question, 734 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: let me know what you think. So you can find 735 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: us on stuff to Bowl your Mind on Facebook, you 736 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: can find us has stuff to Bow your Mind and Tumbler, 737 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: and you can find us as blow the Mind on Twitter, 738 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: and you can always drop us a line and blow 739 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: the mind at discovery dot com for more on this 740 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works 741 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: dot com