1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:25,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is solvable on Jacob Weisberg. People often vacation 2 00:00:25,716 --> 00:00:28,316 Speaker 1: to the beach and they talk about the ocean as 3 00:00:28,356 --> 00:00:31,916 Speaker 1: this rape vista with all of the life teeming under 4 00:00:31,956 --> 00:00:36,356 Speaker 1: the surface, and my father uses the same metaphor for 5 00:00:36,476 --> 00:00:40,756 Speaker 1: the prairie. Rachel Stroer grew up in Kansas among prairie 6 00:00:40,756 --> 00:00:44,436 Speaker 1: grasses and fields of waving wheat. Across the world, wheat 7 00:00:44,476 --> 00:00:48,476 Speaker 1: production and other annual grains account for seventy of the 8 00:00:48,596 --> 00:00:53,476 Speaker 1: land used for agricultural purposes. Monoculture crops like wheat are 9 00:00:53,556 --> 00:00:57,836 Speaker 1: often grown in enormous single species plots and provide sustenance 10 00:00:57,916 --> 00:01:01,876 Speaker 1: for millions of people, but they also lead the problems. 11 00:01:02,196 --> 00:01:08,116 Speaker 1: The problems in agriculture are nitrate leaching, soil erosion, farmer debt, 12 00:01:08,356 --> 00:01:13,716 Speaker 1: loss of soil organic matter, herbicide resistance, over production, pesticide poisoning, 13 00:01:13,716 --> 00:01:17,476 Speaker 1: and the list goes on. Strawer is the acting president 14 00:01:17,516 --> 00:01:21,476 Speaker 1: of the Kansas based Land Institute. Her organization works to 15 00:01:21,516 --> 00:01:26,276 Speaker 1: promote regenerative agriculture, our rejection of monoculture farming in favor 16 00:01:26,356 --> 00:01:29,196 Speaker 1: of investing in seeds that come back year after year 17 00:01:29,596 --> 00:01:34,196 Speaker 1: and a reduced dependence on chemical fertilizer. The land Institute 18 00:01:34,196 --> 00:01:39,796 Speaker 1: itself breeds new varieties of perennial seeds, one called rnza. 19 00:01:40,396 --> 00:01:43,876 Speaker 1: It's something they hope will replace traditional wheat in everything 20 00:01:43,916 --> 00:01:48,156 Speaker 1: from cereals to crackers, to beer and bread, all the 21 00:01:48,196 --> 00:01:52,316 Speaker 1: while helping to restore nutrient balances in the soil and 22 00:01:52,476 --> 00:01:55,316 Speaker 1: clean the air we breathe. And so what we want 23 00:01:55,356 --> 00:01:59,316 Speaker 1: to do is solve the problem of agriculture, which means 24 00:01:59,396 --> 00:02:03,516 Speaker 1: to create an agriculture that is as regenerative as the 25 00:02:03,636 --> 00:02:07,076 Speaker 1: natural systems that build the soil upon which our food 26 00:02:07,196 --> 00:02:13,196 Speaker 1: systems depends. My co host down Apple Bomb spoke with 27 00:02:13,276 --> 00:02:16,916 Speaker 1: Strower about regenerative agriculture and what it can do to 28 00:02:16,996 --> 00:02:20,956 Speaker 1: help solve the problems faced by farmers and consumers alike. 29 00:02:21,676 --> 00:02:26,676 Speaker 1: Here's their conversation. Rachel, can you start by explaining to 30 00:02:26,716 --> 00:02:29,756 Speaker 1: me what exactly is wrong with the crops that we're growing. 31 00:02:30,396 --> 00:02:34,276 Speaker 1: Our agriculture system is extractive. You can think of this 32 00:02:34,396 --> 00:02:38,716 Speaker 1: as like a bank account. Our agriculture takes more out 33 00:02:38,756 --> 00:02:43,796 Speaker 1: of the resource bank account, which is soil, water, nutrients. 34 00:02:43,876 --> 00:02:46,716 Speaker 1: So I'd like to say our food system is sort 35 00:02:46,716 --> 00:02:51,396 Speaker 1: of a terminal feedback loop of extraction. So you're talking 36 00:02:51,436 --> 00:02:56,436 Speaker 1: about essentially reversing the course of agricultural development as it's 37 00:02:56,476 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 1: gone over the last ten thousand years and changing it 38 00:03:00,676 --> 00:03:04,476 Speaker 1: to make it something more natural and more reflective of 39 00:03:04,716 --> 00:03:08,636 Speaker 1: the natural world. Yes, and at the Land Institute specifically, 40 00:03:09,556 --> 00:03:14,196 Speaker 1: we are developing perennial grain crops with the intent to 41 00:03:14,876 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: grow them in agricultural systems in diverse mixture, so that 42 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:23,436 Speaker 1: there are multiple species growing in one field. Perennial crop 43 00:03:23,556 --> 00:03:27,756 Speaker 1: sounds very specific. What's the difference between planting an annual 44 00:03:27,796 --> 00:03:30,276 Speaker 1: crop and a perennial crop and why is that so 45 00:03:30,316 --> 00:03:34,756 Speaker 1: important for the environment. An annual crop is tilled up 46 00:03:34,996 --> 00:03:39,996 Speaker 1: every year, so the soil is disturbed on an annual basis. 47 00:03:40,076 --> 00:03:42,436 Speaker 1: And what we've done over time and in particularly in 48 00:03:42,476 --> 00:03:46,116 Speaker 1: the last hundred to two hundred years, is we have 49 00:03:46,556 --> 00:03:51,556 Speaker 1: accommodated for the destruction that we create in tilling by 50 00:03:51,756 --> 00:03:57,676 Speaker 1: using chemical inputs, and so the perennial grain grows back 51 00:03:57,996 --> 00:04:02,196 Speaker 1: year after year and produces a harvestable food crop on 52 00:04:02,236 --> 00:04:06,356 Speaker 1: a perennial basis, so that we don't have to till 53 00:04:07,076 --> 00:04:10,716 Speaker 1: and therefore don't have to use as much or any 54 00:04:10,756 --> 00:04:13,716 Speaker 1: of the chemical inputs that we use today. What's the 55 00:04:13,756 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 1: relationship of this idea, this form of regenerative agriculture to 56 00:04:19,596 --> 00:04:23,996 Speaker 1: the problem of carbon emissions. Will this reduce carbon is? That? 57 00:04:24,196 --> 00:04:26,716 Speaker 1: Is that one of the goals of this of this change. 58 00:04:27,196 --> 00:04:29,636 Speaker 1: Not only does it draw down the carbon that was 59 00:04:29,676 --> 00:04:33,836 Speaker 1: released over the last ten thousand years, but it's sustained 60 00:04:34,236 --> 00:04:37,036 Speaker 1: that much of that carbon in the soil over the 61 00:04:37,116 --> 00:04:40,556 Speaker 1: long term, year after year, as the roots stay in 62 00:04:40,596 --> 00:04:43,956 Speaker 1: the ground year after year. So we believe that we 63 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 1: can read the quester much of what has been lost 64 00:04:47,876 --> 00:04:51,356 Speaker 1: in both the soil carbon as well as the plant 65 00:04:51,436 --> 00:04:55,876 Speaker 1: matter of a perennial stand of grain production. But the 66 00:04:55,956 --> 00:05:01,236 Speaker 1: system that you're talking about, presumably it's more expensive, it 67 00:05:01,276 --> 00:05:04,036 Speaker 1: produces less output. I mean, I'm wondering, you know, if 68 00:05:04,036 --> 00:05:06,156 Speaker 1: this is the better way to do it, how why 69 00:05:06,196 --> 00:05:10,156 Speaker 1: did humanity, you know, stumble upon this cosletely different method 70 00:05:10,476 --> 00:05:12,956 Speaker 1: pursuing it with great energy ever since. I mean, there 71 00:05:13,036 --> 00:05:16,636 Speaker 1: must be a reason why we shifted to this monoculture 72 00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:21,116 Speaker 1: extractive method in the first place. Yes, there's a lot 73 00:05:21,116 --> 00:05:24,596 Speaker 1: of different theories about why we didn't develop perennials at 74 00:05:24,596 --> 00:05:28,916 Speaker 1: the beginning of agriculture. One is that when our ancestors 75 00:05:29,116 --> 00:05:33,996 Speaker 1: looked for food in the wild, they noticed that they 76 00:05:34,076 --> 00:05:39,996 Speaker 1: happened upon annuals that actually had larger seeds than the perennials, 77 00:05:40,036 --> 00:05:44,236 Speaker 1: and so they selected the annual plants not because of 78 00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:48,876 Speaker 1: their annual tendency necessarily, but because of what they were producing. 79 00:05:49,716 --> 00:05:53,716 Speaker 1: And then secondly, there was this sort of natural selection 80 00:05:53,796 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 1: that happened on those annuals as they began to be 81 00:05:57,316 --> 00:06:03,476 Speaker 1: cultivated that caused them, even without intentional breeding, to become 82 00:06:03,556 --> 00:06:07,836 Speaker 1: even more suited and yield higher inputs. There's also the 83 00:06:07,876 --> 00:06:11,436 Speaker 1: benefit that the annual dies every year that it cannot survive, 84 00:06:12,076 --> 00:06:16,036 Speaker 1: so you can always replace your stand in the next 85 00:06:16,116 --> 00:06:19,516 Speaker 1: year with the best seed from the last year. And 86 00:06:20,076 --> 00:06:23,636 Speaker 1: perennials are very hard to kill. So we can breed 87 00:06:23,716 --> 00:06:28,156 Speaker 1: perennials more easily now because we have knowledge of plant 88 00:06:28,196 --> 00:06:32,556 Speaker 1: breeding and sort of computational skill that allow us to 89 00:06:32,596 --> 00:06:36,396 Speaker 1: move more quickly, and we also have large machinery and 90 00:06:36,756 --> 00:06:40,436 Speaker 1: ways of killing a perennial, you know, or transitioning it out, 91 00:06:40,476 --> 00:06:43,476 Speaker 1: so that we can breed it in a more conventional 92 00:06:43,756 --> 00:06:46,876 Speaker 1: and you in a similar way that we breed annuals 93 00:06:46,956 --> 00:06:49,596 Speaker 1: and half over the last couple hundred years. And that's 94 00:06:49,596 --> 00:06:52,716 Speaker 1: not more expensive, it's not prohibitive in some other way. 95 00:06:53,196 --> 00:06:57,036 Speaker 1: I don't I don't believe that that breeding perennials is 96 00:06:57,076 --> 00:07:02,556 Speaker 1: more expensive than breeding annuals. Today. However, it takes time. 97 00:07:02,876 --> 00:07:06,236 Speaker 1: You know, it's taken an intensified one hundred and fifty 98 00:07:06,316 --> 00:07:10,596 Speaker 1: years to get the high yielding grain crops. You know, 99 00:07:10,756 --> 00:07:15,316 Speaker 1: handful of grain crops that we have today, and in 100 00:07:15,356 --> 00:07:19,556 Speaker 1: just about twenty years of intensive breeding on Karnsa perennial grain, 101 00:07:19,596 --> 00:07:23,596 Speaker 1: for instance, it is showing signs of being able to 102 00:07:24,796 --> 00:07:30,556 Speaker 1: live up to its annual wheat substitute in the next 103 00:07:30,596 --> 00:07:34,716 Speaker 1: ten or twenty years. Tell me about Kurnza. It's one 104 00:07:34,716 --> 00:07:37,996 Speaker 1: of the grains that you've promoted, and I've I've read 105 00:07:38,036 --> 00:07:39,916 Speaker 1: a little bit about it. It's being grown by several 106 00:07:40,076 --> 00:07:42,716 Speaker 1: in several places around the country, but it's not on 107 00:07:42,756 --> 00:07:46,116 Speaker 1: the market yet. Tell us about this particular grain and 108 00:07:46,756 --> 00:07:50,076 Speaker 1: why you're working on it. So, Karnsa is one of 109 00:07:50,596 --> 00:07:53,956 Speaker 1: five crops that we're developing at the Land Institute. Five 110 00:07:53,956 --> 00:07:56,916 Speaker 1: perennial grain crops were developing at the Land Institute. It 111 00:07:56,996 --> 00:08:01,076 Speaker 1: is a nuttier version of wheat. Really, it's from the 112 00:08:01,116 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: plant called intermediate wheat grass. So it looks like wheat 113 00:08:05,596 --> 00:08:08,756 Speaker 1: in a field, but the seed is much smaller. It 114 00:08:08,916 --> 00:08:12,156 Speaker 1: is longer than a wheat berry, which is pretty plump 115 00:08:12,316 --> 00:08:16,796 Speaker 1: and short. Brands like General Mills started using it and 116 00:08:17,236 --> 00:08:21,476 Speaker 1: it is growing on about two thousand acres in the 117 00:08:21,556 --> 00:08:27,356 Speaker 1: United States and also in Sweden and France, and we 118 00:08:27,396 --> 00:08:32,596 Speaker 1: already have over fifty collaborators on six continents. I think 119 00:08:32,676 --> 00:08:37,876 Speaker 1: fifteen countries are represented working in this realm collaborating with 120 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:43,356 Speaker 1: the Land Institute. There's work in Canada, in Argentina. So 121 00:08:43,436 --> 00:08:47,436 Speaker 1: we're really trying to in the next few years solidify 122 00:08:47,556 --> 00:08:52,956 Speaker 1: that international work because what we're trying to accommodate is 123 00:08:52,996 --> 00:08:57,236 Speaker 1: the seventy percent of ag lands covered in annuals, and 124 00:08:57,316 --> 00:09:00,076 Speaker 1: we're trying to create perennials for all of the grain 125 00:09:00,156 --> 00:09:03,756 Speaker 1: producing regions of the world. Hearing you talk about it 126 00:09:03,796 --> 00:09:07,116 Speaker 1: reminds me of the story of Keenowa, which was also 127 00:09:07,756 --> 00:09:10,676 Speaker 1: a grain that was you know, widely used in Peru 128 00:09:10,756 --> 00:09:14,596 Speaker 1: and was important to the United States and became very fashionable. 129 00:09:15,036 --> 00:09:18,756 Speaker 1: What are the chances that that kurnza could become fashionable too? 130 00:09:18,876 --> 00:09:20,716 Speaker 1: Is there a have you all thought about that? Have 131 00:09:20,796 --> 00:09:25,116 Speaker 1: you tried to promote it? We actually hope that it 132 00:09:25,196 --> 00:09:29,596 Speaker 1: doesn't remain a sort of specialty crop like kin wat 133 00:09:29,836 --> 00:09:33,356 Speaker 1: is that is produced on a more mass scale and 134 00:09:33,476 --> 00:09:38,756 Speaker 1: become sort of a regular ingredient in common everyday products 135 00:09:38,876 --> 00:09:43,396 Speaker 1: like cheerios or in your local bakery would have a 136 00:09:43,436 --> 00:09:47,356 Speaker 1: regular run of kerns of bread or the regular beer 137 00:09:47,476 --> 00:09:50,836 Speaker 1: run from the from the local brewery. We can't have 138 00:09:50,916 --> 00:09:54,276 Speaker 1: the impacts that we want to have on the soils 139 00:09:54,276 --> 00:09:56,636 Speaker 1: of the world if it's limited to sort of a 140 00:09:56,756 --> 00:10:02,476 Speaker 1: specialty crop niche market. What if kurnza was to become 141 00:10:02,556 --> 00:10:07,636 Speaker 1: widespread and available everywhere and how would that change the world? 142 00:10:07,676 --> 00:10:09,436 Speaker 1: I mean, how would that change the atmosph fear? What 143 00:10:09,436 --> 00:10:12,636 Speaker 1: would the impact of that be huge? We will be 144 00:10:12,716 --> 00:10:19,076 Speaker 1: seeing more carbon sequestration, will be seeing less toxic chemical inputs, 145 00:10:19,516 --> 00:10:23,796 Speaker 1: will be feeding the regions around production as well as 146 00:10:23,796 --> 00:10:27,716 Speaker 1: the global food supply chain. Regenera of agriculture is one 147 00:10:27,716 --> 00:10:30,876 Speaker 1: of the few areas that can potentially solve ten percent 148 00:10:30,956 --> 00:10:36,156 Speaker 1: of climate change, and perennial grains specifically on the landscape 149 00:10:36,196 --> 00:10:39,316 Speaker 1: offer one of the most promising avenues for carbon sequestration 150 00:10:39,476 --> 00:10:43,396 Speaker 1: on Earth to date. So I envision that when kurnza 151 00:10:43,556 --> 00:10:47,436 Speaker 1: and other perennial grains like it find their way onto 152 00:10:47,636 --> 00:10:52,596 Speaker 1: the annual production grain production lands of today, which is 153 00:10:52,636 --> 00:10:56,916 Speaker 1: about seventy percent of our total agricultural lands, will also 154 00:10:57,316 --> 00:11:03,436 Speaker 1: be stewarding the livelihoods of farmers and farm workers because 155 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:06,756 Speaker 1: that we're not requiring the sort of them to maintain 156 00:11:07,436 --> 00:11:11,316 Speaker 1: the economic readmill of farming, which is leading to all 157 00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:15,996 Speaker 1: kinds of consolidation and other issues. So it's a pretty 158 00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:20,796 Speaker 1: utopian vision in my mind if we can get perennials 159 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:24,996 Speaker 1: on the landscape broadly and globally. Rachel, let me back 160 00:11:25,116 --> 00:11:28,596 Speaker 1: up a little and ask you something a little more basic, namely, 161 00:11:29,596 --> 00:11:33,636 Speaker 1: what drew you to this story, to this issue, why 162 00:11:33,756 --> 00:11:36,836 Speaker 1: perennial crops. How did you originally get interested in farming? 163 00:11:36,876 --> 00:11:38,636 Speaker 1: I mean, was it through a love of food? Was 164 00:11:38,676 --> 00:11:42,036 Speaker 1: it through was it through the landscape? I was born 165 00:11:42,076 --> 00:11:46,636 Speaker 1: and raised in central Kansas, and my father was sort 166 00:11:46,676 --> 00:11:52,076 Speaker 1: of a novice environmentalist and had a prairie land that 167 00:11:52,156 --> 00:11:54,756 Speaker 1: I helped him restore when I was young, So I 168 00:11:54,796 --> 00:11:58,996 Speaker 1: always had a sort of environmental ethic, and I grew 169 00:11:59,076 --> 00:12:03,396 Speaker 1: up in the prairie among these perennial grasslands. People often 170 00:12:03,556 --> 00:12:06,756 Speaker 1: vacation to the beach, and they talk about the ocean 171 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:10,156 Speaker 1: as the rape vista with all of the life teeming 172 00:12:10,316 --> 00:12:14,836 Speaker 1: under the surface. And my father uses the same metaphor 173 00:12:14,956 --> 00:12:18,396 Speaker 1: for the prairie, which has been described more often as 174 00:12:18,476 --> 00:12:22,196 Speaker 1: sort of a barren wasteland. But he is of the mind, 175 00:12:22,236 --> 00:12:25,956 Speaker 1: and I think it's relevant to this regenerative agriculture soil 176 00:12:26,076 --> 00:12:30,996 Speaker 1: story that there's so much life on the prairie especially, 177 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:33,676 Speaker 1: and even in the winter, you just can't see it 178 00:12:33,716 --> 00:12:36,676 Speaker 1: because it's below ground. And so you have these waves 179 00:12:36,836 --> 00:12:40,436 Speaker 1: of prairie grasses blowing like waves on the ocean, and 180 00:12:40,516 --> 00:12:44,036 Speaker 1: below them is teeming with life. So I do remember 181 00:12:44,076 --> 00:12:46,716 Speaker 1: as a kid walking and the grasses are quite tall, 182 00:12:47,076 --> 00:12:50,036 Speaker 1: and walking and feeling that the grasses kind of have 183 00:12:50,036 --> 00:12:54,756 Speaker 1: a feathery tip, which is nice, a nice tactile sort 184 00:12:54,756 --> 00:12:58,876 Speaker 1: of connection to that deep underground as you walk, walk, 185 00:12:58,996 --> 00:13:02,916 Speaker 1: or hike through the prairie. People listening to you don't 186 00:13:02,956 --> 00:13:05,796 Speaker 1: work at the Land Institute, they might not live in Kansas. 187 00:13:06,396 --> 00:13:09,196 Speaker 1: What can they do, nevertheless, to support this vision, this 188 00:13:09,436 --> 00:13:13,716 Speaker 1: idea of regenerative agriculture, an idea that you know, we 189 00:13:13,716 --> 00:13:16,556 Speaker 1: can have a more natural form of food production. What 190 00:13:16,676 --> 00:13:20,236 Speaker 1: can ordinary people do to support that? Simply learning and 191 00:13:20,276 --> 00:13:23,356 Speaker 1: then advocating for what you learn is a great way 192 00:13:23,476 --> 00:13:27,156 Speaker 1: to participate. Go to the Land Institute's website read more. 193 00:13:27,516 --> 00:13:30,316 Speaker 1: There's all kinds of book projects. Draw Down has all 194 00:13:30,396 --> 00:13:35,076 Speaker 1: kinds of information about what's called carbon farming. Eat perennially. 195 00:13:35,396 --> 00:13:38,276 Speaker 1: There are perennial things that you could eat now, can 196 00:13:38,556 --> 00:13:43,476 Speaker 1: you name a few for us? Almonds, tree crops. There 197 00:13:43,476 --> 00:13:49,556 Speaker 1: are some perennial vegetables, avocados, asparagus, and the list goes on. 198 00:13:50,716 --> 00:13:55,236 Speaker 1: This idea of diverse perennial grain production is the best 199 00:13:55,276 --> 00:13:59,956 Speaker 1: technology we know of today to get our agricultural production 200 00:14:00,796 --> 00:14:05,036 Speaker 1: functioning as close as possible to the natural systems that 201 00:14:05,116 --> 00:14:08,716 Speaker 1: came before it and built the soil upon which we eat. 202 00:14:09,436 --> 00:14:13,476 Speaker 1: One final question, you know, I understand why this is 203 00:14:13,596 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 1: ecologically more sustainable. Is it economically sustainable? Should there be 204 00:14:18,676 --> 00:14:21,356 Speaker 1: subsidies for this kind of agriculture? Do you need them 205 00:14:21,676 --> 00:14:26,476 Speaker 1: in the near term? I think that our entire agricultural 206 00:14:26,556 --> 00:14:31,716 Speaker 1: subsidies program should turn towards more regenerative practices to incentivize 207 00:14:32,916 --> 00:14:36,436 Speaker 1: as a sort of turning of the Titanic from facing 208 00:14:36,436 --> 00:14:40,716 Speaker 1: an annual paradigm to facing a perennial one. My vision 209 00:14:40,716 --> 00:14:44,196 Speaker 1: of the future over the long term, we will not 210 00:14:44,396 --> 00:14:48,676 Speaker 1: need to subsidize agriculture because it will be self sustaining 211 00:14:48,716 --> 00:14:55,236 Speaker 1: in a really beautiful and ecological way. Rachel Strower is 212 00:14:55,316 --> 00:14:58,476 Speaker 1: acting President of the Land Institute. Be sure to check 213 00:14:58,476 --> 00:15:01,796 Speaker 1: out our show notes to learn more about regenerative agriculture 214 00:15:02,436 --> 00:15:05,156 Speaker 1: and here it's Solvable. We're wishing you a restorative and 215 00:15:05,236 --> 00:15:08,756 Speaker 1: regenerative holiday season. We'll be back with more in the 216 00:15:08,756 --> 00:15:11,476 Speaker 1: new y year. Until then, if you had a favorite 217 00:15:11,516 --> 00:15:14,836 Speaker 1: episode this past season, consider sharing it with a friend. 218 00:15:15,796 --> 00:15:19,396 Speaker 1: Solvable is produced by Camille Baptista and this is Camille's 219 00:15:19,476 --> 00:15:22,916 Speaker 1: last week was Solvable. We'll miss your terrific work, Camille. 220 00:15:23,356 --> 00:15:27,356 Speaker 1: The senior producer of Solvable is Jocelyn Frank. Katherine Girardeau 221 00:15:27,436 --> 00:15:31,116 Speaker 1: is our managing producer. Mia Lobell is our executive producer. 222 00:15:31,556 --> 00:15:34,396 Speaker 1: We're also saying goodbye this week to our research intern, 223 00:15:34,516 --> 00:15:37,716 Speaker 1: Kobe Guildford. Kobe, it's been great to have your help 224 00:15:37,756 --> 00:15:43,236 Speaker 1: this semester special thanks to Carly Migliori, Kadija Holland, Eric Sandler, 225 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:45,796 Speaker 1: and Heather Fame. I'm Jacob Weisberg.