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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Elon Musk says Biden taxing the

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Speaker 1: ultra rich would upset a lot of donors. I think

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Speaker 1: it might. We have a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Senator Amy Klobshar stops by to talk about her new book,

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Speaker 1: The Joy of Politics. Then we'll talk to Showtimes the Circuses,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Paul Mary about her new piece, and Vanity Fair

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Speaker 1: about Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and how she's successfully governed

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Speaker 1: a divided state. But first we have vaccine scientists, pediatrician

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Speaker 1: and all around good guy and author of The Deadly

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Speaker 1: Rise of Anti Science, doctor Peter Hotez. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics, Doctor Peter Hotez.

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Speaker 2: It's great to talk to you, Molly. I think this

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Speaker 2: may be the first time that we don't actually talk

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Speaker 2: about COVID so much with them.

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Speaker 1: Right, we can just talk about COVID derangement syndrome. It's

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Speaker 1: a good name, right, I mean, that's where we are basically.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, let's just like top line here, So

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Speaker 1: OURFK Junior has returned from the shadows. I guess at

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Speaker 1: one point he was normal.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I have a new book coming out

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Speaker 2: called The Deadly Rise of Anti Science. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things you'll see about the book, compared to the

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Speaker 2: last one, I wrote about vaccines did not cause Rachel's autism,

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Speaker 2: where there was a lot of stuff about RFK and

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Speaker 2: my discussions with him.

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Speaker 1: You have an autistic daughter named Rachel, and she did

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Speaker 1: not get her autism from vaccines.

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Speaker 2: Right, she has autism and intellectual disabilities. And I wrote

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Speaker 2: the book to basically counter the prevailing view about the

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Speaker 2: anti prevailing anti vaccine activist sentiment that claimed vaccines cause autism,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of that came from O. RFK Junior,

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Speaker 2: and I debunk that whole thing and also provided the

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Speaker 2: alternative narrative about what autism is, how it begins in

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Speaker 2: early fetal brain development, the concepts of neurodiversity, and what

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Speaker 2: autism genes are. And we did whole exim genomics sequencing

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Speaker 2: on Rachel and my wife Ann and I, and we

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Speaker 2: found Rachel's autism gene.

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Speaker 1: That was the whole thing. That's really interesting. It was

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Speaker 1: just a specific gene that was formed differently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in this case, it's involved in neuronal communications. In

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Speaker 2: her case, it's a type of gene called the neuronal

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Speaker 2: side of skeleton genes, and several of the autism genes

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Speaker 2: are that hers. In fact, it turned out to be

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Speaker 2: one that hadn't been discovered before, and it was actually

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Speaker 2: written up in a biomedical journal along with five other

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Speaker 2: instances where they found it. So the technology is so

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Speaker 2: amazing that they once you find one, then you can

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Speaker 2: pick up, you know, several other kids or adults with it.

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Speaker 1: So is there a world in which that there'll be

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Speaker 1: a treatment for this or now.

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Speaker 2: Well potentially, And then you know, there's this whole other

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Speaker 2: thread about what does that mean, you know, for people

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Speaker 2: who are very diverse, and then gets some the whole

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Speaker 2: discussion of high functioning versus not high functioning? What does

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Speaker 2: it mean? DAVI the associated intellectual dess. But the point

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Speaker 2: is so RFK was very engaged at that point and

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Speaker 2: then you know, from my point of view, he kind

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Speaker 2: of I don't say he ever disappeared, but he wasn't

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Speaker 2: that prominent. So that in the newest book that I

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Speaker 2: have called The Deadly Rise of Anti Science and why

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Speaker 2: so many Americans died because they were falsely led to

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Speaker 2: believe that they didn't need a COVID vaccine or that

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Speaker 2: it wasn't safe. In this kind of nonsense, you know,

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Speaker 2: the major groups that identify are the organizations like the

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Speaker 2: House Freedom Caucus and individual US senators and the role

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Speaker 2: of Fox News and spreading that disinformation in the talking

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Speaker 2: heads and RFK. I don't even know if he's mentioned

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Speaker 2: in the book, and so that's point one point two,

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Speaker 2: when you know he announces running for president. Other than

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Speaker 2: I cringed from his past track record, I was interesting

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Speaker 2: that I noticed that he wasn't talking about vaccines and all,

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Speaker 2: and I think, boy, you must have been pretty well coached.

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Speaker 2: They probably said, look, Bobby, you know this is what

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Speaker 2: this is what you want to stay away from this

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Speaker 2: one help you at all talk about all the other stuff.

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Speaker 2: And he was doing that. So I was kind of surprised,

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Speaker 2: you know, when he went on Rogan and then just

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Speaker 2: went off on the whole vaccine again. It was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was like it was two thousand and

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Speaker 2: five again, and I thought that was really interesting or

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Speaker 2: in an odd way, I'm going to just.

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Speaker 1: Read you a little bit that Chelsea sent me on

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Speaker 1: the Rogan podcast, he simply waved away this inconvenient fact

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Speaker 1: and continue to argue that life saving vaccines are dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Kennedy told Rogan that it could be aluminum in the

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Speaker 1: vaccines that's causing problems. I remember in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: four asking my pediatrician and she said there wasn't aluminum

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Speaker 1: in vaccines, but in at't typically ingest seven to nine

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Speaker 1: milligrams of aluminum per day through food, and a typical

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Speaker 1: vaccine has less than half a milligram. Infants will be

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Speaker 1: exposed to far more aluminum through their diet than vaccines.

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Speaker 1: And there's no scientific evidence that aluminum is linked to

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Speaker 1: autism or any other health condition cited by Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: Right, So remember how this works. So, and this is

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Speaker 2: why I don't ever do a public debate with someone

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Speaker 2: like RFK Junior, because he keeps on moving the goalposts.

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Speaker 2: So right, right, Because the initial the OG assertion from

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Speaker 2: the Wakefield paper in the Lancet in nineteen ninety eight

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Speaker 2: was that it was the measles momps rubella vaccine, the

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Speaker 2: live virus vaccine replicates in the gut, and somehow that

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Speaker 2: led to autism, and it never made sense to me,

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Speaker 2: the paper was retracted, although it took a decade to

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Speaker 2: get it retracted because it was false.

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Speaker 1: And then the damage was done by then.

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Speaker 2: But then, you know, they kept on whatever you call it,

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Speaker 2: whack a mole or moving the goalpost. Then they shifted

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Speaker 2: to thymerisol preservative that used to be in vaccines, and

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Speaker 2: RFK Junior was a big proponent of that, and then

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Speaker 2: that got debunked, And by debunked, I mean these large

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Speaker 2: cohorts studies saying, kid, you know, kids who got the

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Speaker 2: MMR vaccine were no more likely to acquire autism than

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Speaker 2: kids who didn't, and kids on the autism spectrum were

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Speaker 2: no more likely to have gotten MMR than kids who didn't.

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Speaker 2: So then it switched to thimerosol. And then it switched

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Speaker 2: to spacing vaccines too close together.

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Speaker 1: If you remember the whole yes.

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Speaker 2: Getting McCarthy, then you know, we got to green the

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Speaker 2: vaccines and or all these books written about that, and

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Speaker 2: that was all that was all bs too and then

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Speaker 2: and then that got debunked, and then it fell to

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Speaker 2: alum in vaccines, and then that got debunked, and then

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Speaker 2: it went to something called vaccines caused chronic illness. You know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, so they just made it harder

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Speaker 2: and harder to kind of and and that's and that's

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Speaker 2: the frustration of debating this stuff is because you know,

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Speaker 2: you you keep knocking one down, as they call it, whackome, well,

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Speaker 2: you keep knocking one down and another one pops up.

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Speaker 2: And then they switched it over for a while to

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Speaker 2: the HPV vaccine recervical cancer and other cancers, and they

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Speaker 2: said it caused infertility or autoimmunity, and that was all

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Speaker 2: bs and and then and if you remember, they started

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Speaker 2: sorted the same thing about COVID vaccines. And the reason

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Speaker 2: they said it was because they had, you know, all

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Speaker 2: the all the graphics. They could just copy paste the

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Speaker 2: false claim from HPV vaccine at the COVID vaccines. That's

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Speaker 2: the nature of the anti vaccine movement. But it takes somebody,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's been really looking at this over a

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Speaker 2: period of years to figure out what the heck they're

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Speaker 2: doing and to debunk it.

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Speaker 1: It's just ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: And then the other piece to this is and again

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Speaker 2: I thought RFK was done talking about this, but he

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Speaker 2: went back to it and others and Rogan as well

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Speaker 2: as the insidious pharma links or this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So and the term they throw out all the time

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Speaker 2: you see on social media's pharma shill s hill, and

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Speaker 2: you know they claim as I'm secretly, you know, taking

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Speaker 2: money from pharma companies, and when in fact, we made

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Speaker 2: you know, developed two protot covid prototype vaccines that we

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Speaker 2: licensed to two organizations in India and Indonesia, no patents,

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Speaker 2: minimizing strings attached and everything in the open access literature,

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Speaker 2: two to three dollars a dose, and wound up one

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Speaker 2: hundred million doses administered in India and Indonesia, providing proof

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Speaker 2: of concept that you could bypass the pharma companies and

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Speaker 2: provide an alternative model. And any rational person would say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'll bet RFK Junior would really love that concept, or

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Speaker 2: Joe Rogan would love that concept. Instead, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: so important to demonize me or someone else that they

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Speaker 2: just throw that out the window and just want to

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Speaker 2: make up stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of incredible. Obviously. What's happening with Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: here is that Republicans know that Trump is going to

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Speaker 1: get the nomination. They know that he can't possibly win

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Speaker 1: a general and so the hope is that they are

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Speaker 1: hoping they can find someone to pump up so that

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Speaker 1: Biden will have, you know, a harder time or maybe

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Speaker 1: not win at all. I mean that clearly seems to

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Speaker 1: be the general sense here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, oh, I see, So what you're saying is

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Speaker 2: they're kind of schmoozing up RFK in order to take

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Speaker 2: photes away from Biden Nerd.

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Speaker 1: Right. During the pandemic, there was this unholy alliance between

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Speaker 1: yoga moms who would largely vote Democratic, who were always

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Speaker 1: a little suspicious of modern medicine, right, and the Trumpers.

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Speaker 1: And so the hope is that these people because look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, David Zachs, Elon Musk, they're not RFK junior supporters, right,

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Speaker 1: they're supporters of Ron DeSantis, but they know that RFK

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Speaker 1: could pull away some of these more.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting to say that because, you know, the other

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Speaker 2: thing that may be relevant is, like two or three

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Speaker 2: days before this whole blew up with Rogan and Elon,

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Speaker 2: our good friend Steve Bannon started attacking me. He publicly

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Speaker 2: declared me a criminal quote unquote on his social media feed,

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Speaker 2: which was retweeted by someone who calls herself the chief

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Speaker 2: Operating Officer Chief executive officer of the War Room. So

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Speaker 2: I said, no, that's interesting. And Bannon's gone after me

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Speaker 2: before with Marjorie Taylor Green, so I knew there was

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Speaker 2: going to be an issue as soon as I saw

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Speaker 2: Bannon reven that up again and attacking me. And then

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Speaker 2: it was interesting. I can't prove it's related, but it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Then all the Rogan Elon stuff followed a couple of

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Speaker 2: after that.

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Speaker 1: And you'll remember that Bannon is a big RFK Junior

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Speaker 1: fan for obvious reasons. I mean, he was involved in this,

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Speaker 1: you know, RFK Junior stuff just as much as any

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Speaker 1: of these people because he knows that those left leaning

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Speaker 1: independents could you know, I mean, the electoral college is

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Speaker 1: a numbers game, right, Like all they need to do

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Speaker 1: is pull enough votes away so that Biden doesn't win

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Speaker 1: and Trump does. And I think that that's where this

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Speaker 1: has gone, and that's why they've tacked so quickly, and

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Speaker 1: that's where this is going.

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Speaker 2: I'm just part of the collateral damage for all. Sorry

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Speaker 2: it doesn't surprise me, but you know, that's part of

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Speaker 2: what the extremists. What they do is they target science

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Speaker 2: and scientists, and you know, to understand that whole space.

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Speaker 2: I started talking for the new book. I started talking

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Speaker 2: to political scientists, like, I don't know if you know

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Speaker 2: Ruth ben gad Uh, Yeah, of course she's terrific, and

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Speaker 2: so I've talked to her and she says, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: she points out and then I went to a deep

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Speaker 2: dive for the book. You know this what Stalin did

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Speaker 2: in the thirties, right, You have to derail the intelligency,

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Speaker 2: and you go after the science, not only the science,

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Speaker 2: but the scientists and portray them as enemies of the state.

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Speaker 2: And that's exactly what's happening with me and a couple

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Speaker 2: of other colleagues. So that's another component of the of

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Speaker 2: the book as well. It's not just the fact that

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Speaker 2: they're targeting the science and the fact that they allowed

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Speaker 2: two hundred thousand Americans to needlessly perished because they refused

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Speaker 2: to COVID vaccine. They were victims of that disinformation, but

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Speaker 2: also going after the scientist and basically telling the troops

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Speaker 2: there that were public enemies. And it makes it really tough.

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Speaker 1: What I thought was so odd about this was I

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Speaker 1: always thought that eventually, you know, when people started dying

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Speaker 1: of COVID, that there would be some kind of tact

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Speaker 1: so that there would be some kind of change that

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Speaker 1: people would say, well, you know, look I saw this

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Speaker 1: person die in front.

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Speaker 2: Of some sort of auto correction, right right, I know it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just amazing I gave You don't see

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Speaker 2: so much in Houston, but when you go into the

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Speaker 2: more conservative rural areas of Texas. I gave a lecture

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Speaker 2: University of Texas Tyler Medical Center, which is in East Texas,

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Speaker 2: and basically you just talk to people, and everybody you

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Speaker 2: talk to has lost a loved one because they refused

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Speaker 2: to COVID vaccine. That's where you see it at home.

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Speaker 2: And what's so heartbreaking about that is you know these

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Speaker 2: are good people, right. I mean I gave medical grand

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Speaker 2: rounds to Stanford a few weeks ago, and I said, look,

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Speaker 2: if my car broke down from a flat tire, and

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Speaker 2: you gave me the choice, would I want that car?

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Speaker 2: If you have a flat tire in Palo Alto, California,

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Speaker 2: or in East Texas. I would have said East Texas

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Speaker 2: in a moment, because you know there'd be ten people

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Speaker 2: fighting over who was going to help you change your tire,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to in Palo Alto everybody would probably drive

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Speaker 2: right by. So so you know, these are good kind people,

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Speaker 2: and they were victims. Basically, they were target for this stuff.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's so heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: So here's the question. They were targeted. They are victims.

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Speaker 1: They never had that moment where they were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're all dying, maybe we should get back. So maybe

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Speaker 1: these people don't have our best interests at heart. In fact,

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Speaker 1: they came out of it thinking that they had been

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Speaker 1: duped by you. That's right.

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Speaker 2: So what happened was, and this is exactly and I

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Speaker 2: wrote about this recently in a journal faceve journal, I

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Speaker 2: basically said, so what happened was, you're right. You would think,

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Speaker 2: right if you were a member of the House Freedom Caucus,

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Speaker 2: you know, actively promoting this vaccine disinformation, or Fox News

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Speaker 2: anchor at night or you know, one of the talking heads,

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Speaker 2: you say, oh my god, look what's happening here and

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Speaker 2: have some pause for reflection. Instead, what they did was

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Speaker 2: they just doubled the lie. They said, no, no, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't us, it was the COVID vaccines that did that.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, the scientists created the COVID virus

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Speaker 2: in the first place. So instead they've they've been doubled

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Speaker 2: down and doing this kind of revisionist history, which is

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Speaker 2: equally damaging as well.

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Speaker 1: But it's also like, well, you said masks were good,

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Speaker 1: but masks were good. Like that's like I, as someone

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Speaker 1: who has spent the day, actually the last three days,

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Speaker 1: just swarmed with the kind of hateful twitter you get

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Speaker 1: all the time. What I think is interesting is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're like, we've got you now. You know,

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Speaker 1: doctor Hotes, you said that masks were you know, on

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Speaker 1: da da da da dah. You said masks help prevent diseases.

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Speaker 1: We all know that, But masks still help prevent respiratory diseases.

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Speaker 1: Like what are we being shown here? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. And one of the things that I

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Speaker 2: did that the CDC and others did was I always

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Speaker 2: went into my underlying assumption, so for instance, and that

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Speaker 2: helps you know when things change. So for instance, when

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Speaker 2: the two first doses of the mRNA vaccines were given out,

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Speaker 2: I said, by the way, don't be surprised if we're

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Speaker 2: gonna need a booster, because that's the way most vaccines work.

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Speaker 2: And so it's not going to be and done and

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Speaker 2: two and done, and it could be three and done,

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Speaker 2: and I was looking pretty good throughout the delta and

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Speaker 2: BA one omicron waves. But then, you know, the virus

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Speaker 2: started mutating more and it looked like the m R

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Speaker 2: and A vaccines were not as durable as we thought.

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Speaker 2: And I, you know, I said that, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I got a lot of credit

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Speaker 2: for being one of the few that said we're not

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Speaker 2: two doses is not enough.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: The mistake was I could have gone farther and said

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Speaker 2: three may not.

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Speaker 4: Be enough either. But and that's where we are.

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Speaker 2: But the point is I explained the science behind it

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Speaker 2: at each step, both before said it, during said and

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Speaker 2: after set it'd say this is what you should look

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Speaker 2: for for the change. But what I see from the

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Speaker 2: conspiracy sites, and they do this a lot now, is

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Speaker 2: they will edit something I said and put a short

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Speaker 2: segment without giving the rest of the statement, and then

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Speaker 2: follow it up and make it, you know, and try

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Speaker 2: to make you look stupid. And that's what they do

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Speaker 2: when I get stalked and they shove a cell phone

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Speaker 2: camera in your face and they edited up the wazoo

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Speaker 2: to make you look less credible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just so fucking depressing. I have to say.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing is you might say, well, why

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Speaker 2: are they doing this, And the answer is it's part.

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Speaker 2: So what's happened is, you know, if you look at

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Speaker 2: the canon of stuff from people deep in the Fox

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Speaker 2: News rabbit hole, it's you know, in addition to the

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Speaker 2: election being stolen and putin over Zelenski and Trump, and

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Speaker 2: in that canon is watch out for the scientists, and

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Speaker 2: the scientists are dangerous and it makes no sense. And

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Speaker 2: so what I say is, look, I mean, everyone's entitled

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Speaker 2: to your conservative views or.

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Speaker 1: Even extreme conservative views.

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Speaker 2: I mean, do you want to believe Hillary Clinton runs

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Speaker 2: a pedophile ringing a pizza parlor, you know, knock yourself out.

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Speaker 2: But somehow we've got to delink that from the anti

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Speaker 2: science because that's what's killing people and it's very tough

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Speaker 2: to thrill that needle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean that I think that's right,

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Speaker 1: and I think that that's what we're seeing now. I

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Speaker 1: want you to stay safe, okay, because we need you,

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Speaker 1: and to come back when your book comes out. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Amy Klombashar is Minnesota's senior senator and the author of

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Speaker 1: the Joy of Politics, A Surviving Cancer, A Campaign, A

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Speaker 1: Pandemic an insurrection and life's other unexpected curve balls. Welcome back,

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Speaker 1: because you've been here before too fast Politics, Senator Amy klobaschar.

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Speaker 4: Well, thanks Molly, it is wonderful to be on again.

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Speaker 1: The book is called The Joy of Politics. What book

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Speaker 1: is this your second, third, fourth book?

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Speaker 5: I think, well, if you count my college senior essay.

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Speaker 1: Yes, which we of course do in this organization, yes.

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Speaker 5: Espectually because it's called Uncovering the Dome and it's about

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Speaker 5: the Capitol, but it's about the Vikings Twins sports stadium

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Speaker 5: that actually was passed into law and became a stadium

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Speaker 5: when I was in college. So I wrote that book,

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Speaker 5: which was used in college classes a lot because they

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Speaker 5: could say she wrote this when she was your age.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so this is book four. Yeah, work four.

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Speaker 5: And then I did a sort of a more standard

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Speaker 5: bio book called Center next Door. And then I did

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Speaker 5: the Anti Trust book that actually got on the New

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Speaker 5: York Times bestseller list but was quite thick, with two

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Speaker 5: hundred pages of footnotes. But this book, The Joy of Politics,

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Speaker 5: is actually, i'd say more of a personal book.

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Speaker 4: It's not a standard bio.

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Speaker 5: It is about how I got through obstacles, including breast

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Speaker 5: cancer of the pandemic like everyone else, although my husband

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Speaker 5: got very sick and was in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: And one of the first people really to get sick right.

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Speaker 5: Right at the beginning when there were I think there

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Speaker 5: were only nineteen people in a hospital in the whole

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Speaker 5: state of Virginia. I remember looking at the time with

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Speaker 5: COVID and yeah, he got it from a friend of

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Speaker 5: ours who at the time only had a cough. No

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Speaker 5: one knew that's how you got it, and later found

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Speaker 5: out he had the antibody, so we figured out that's

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Speaker 5: where he got it. And he got really sick and

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Speaker 5: was on oxygen, not a ventilator, but oxygen for a

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Speaker 5: week in a little hospital in Virginia because that's where

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Speaker 5: he just happened to drive and someone met him in

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Speaker 5: the parking lot and he got tests and he ended

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Speaker 5: up there and we didn't even get the test back

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Speaker 5: for two weeks on or ten days on COVID at

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Speaker 5: the time, so early on, and he got through it

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Speaker 5: so that when his only long haul symptom, well, some

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Speaker 5: people have very serious situations. His seems to erupt only

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Speaker 5: when I say we need to clean the basement, and

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Speaker 5: then it's a very smart man. He had COVID and

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Speaker 5: I can't do that because of all the dust. That's

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Speaker 5: the only time he ever brings it up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good for him.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway, he got through it, and we then, like

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Speaker 5: everyone else, just got through that pandemic. And I also

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Speaker 5: talk about the insurrection and my role there because I

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Speaker 5: was a chair of the rules committee and Roy Blunt

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Speaker 5: and I were in charge of counting the electoral ballots

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Speaker 5: that day and making sure everything got done.

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Speaker 4: By four in the morning.

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Speaker 5: It was just the two of us and Vice President

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Speaker 5: Pence and three young pairs of pages holding the mahogany

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Speaker 5: boxes with the electoral ballots.

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Speaker 1: That must have been a pretty weird experience.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it really was, because it was this sort of

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Speaker 5: ceremony pomp.

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Speaker 4: I remember actually being on some shows.

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Speaker 5: Ahead of time about it and how we knew that

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Speaker 5: was by the time we knew then that some Republicans

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Speaker 5: obviously were not going to vote like they had in

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Speaker 5: the past to verify the results of the states, and

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Speaker 5: so I went on a few shows and they all

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Speaker 5: would say at the end, well, it's going to be

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Speaker 5: fine then, and I go, well, you know, never, sir,

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Speaker 5: And I think we knew the numbers were fine, but

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Speaker 5: there was just brewing anger, and Trump kept bringing it up,

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Speaker 5: and it turned out that they just hadn't planned the

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Speaker 5: security for that kind of situation. And there we were,

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Speaker 5: and it was this just ridiculously ceremonious thing in the

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Speaker 5: morning and with Roy and Me leading this group of

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Speaker 5: senators to the House and we start reading the ballot

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Speaker 5: numbers for Alaska and we get to Arizona and that's

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Speaker 5: the first objection.

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Speaker 4: And then we get back and we start giving our speeches.

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Speaker 5: And at the time, I was very focused on the

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Speaker 5: order because everyone got three four minutes and I was

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Speaker 5: in charge of that. And then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 5: you know, our staff says, it seems like people have

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Speaker 5: invaded the capital. And the next thing, you know, Vice

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Speaker 5: President Pens is taken away from the presiding chair. We're

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Speaker 5: in the chamber, and eventually they'd say, we got to leave,

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Speaker 5: and we go to that secure location, which by the way,

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Speaker 5: contained everyone except for the leaders that you saw in

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Speaker 5: the January sixth hearings, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer and

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Speaker 5: Mitch McConnell and Boone. They were all in one room,

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Speaker 5: but all of the rest of the Senate and the

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Speaker 5: pages were in the other So I tell that story

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Speaker 5: of that day and how focused we were on getting

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Speaker 5: back to finish our jobs. And we did, and at

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Speaker 5: four in the morning, as I said, it was just

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Speaker 5: the three of us, but this time we were walking

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00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 5: over the broken glass and the spray painted by the

435
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 5: spray painted pillars with racist vulgarities. But we said that

436
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 5: democracy would prevail, and in the end it did.

437
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: It did, but it was I mean, I just can't

438
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: even imagine how No, I won't.

439
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 5: But remember, like a lot of workplaces, when you have

440
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 5: an invasion, you don't even know if there's like anthrax

441
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 5: in there. People don't go back to the scene of

442
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 5: the crime. Like twelve hours later, the whole set But

443
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 5: we felt so strongly, those of us in leadership, that

444
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 5: we had to get back to that room and that

445
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 5: otherwise they would have won. And that is the same

446
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 5: way in coming president and now President Biden felt, and

447
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 5: Roy Blunt and I felt about keeping the inauguration on

448
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,479
Speaker 5: that platform because that was the first place they invaded,

449
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 5: so people wanted to have it in a bunker.

450
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: So I had a.

451
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 5: Story of how much pressure we were under to change that,

452
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 5: and we felt very secure. Different group of people were

453
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 5: in charge of the security. We said it was going

454
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 5: any risk, we wouldn't do it. But we felt very

455
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 5: strongly we should be on that platform, even though we

456
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 5: had plastic windows behind us, and we had whitewashed pillars

457
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 5: that they couldn't even get the spray paint off of,

458
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 5: and it looked all nights on TV. But that was

459
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,239
Speaker 5: the truth. And yet everyone rose to the occasion. And

460
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 5: probably my two most memorable moments that I recount in

461
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 5: the book were Lady Gaga boisterously belting out the star

462
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 5: spangled banner with the words and our flag was still there,

463
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 5: and motioning to our flag than Amanda Gorman, the youngest

464
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 5: inaugural poet in the history of the United States at

465
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 5: age twenty two, with that beautiful poem she wrote in

466
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 5: just those two weeks after the inauguration, with those memorable words,

467
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 5: we must find light in this never ending shade, And

468
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 5: that kind of defined my work after that for the

469
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 5: next few years, including leading the Freedom to Vote Act,

470
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 5: which we came close, but a lot of states have

471
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 5: done some things that are taking some of those provisions

472
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 5: and putting him into law, including.

473
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 4: My own state of Minnesota.

474
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 5: And Also we made the case nationally that this wasn't

475
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 5: just a state by state problem. When they try to

476
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 5: ban Saturday voting in Georgia, as they just did in

477
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 5: the last election.

478
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, how worried are you about this want on the

479
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: part of Republicans to cement a minority rule?

480
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 4: Really really concerned.

481
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 5: I recount in the book how and argue for filibuster reform,

482
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 5: which would have mattered in the last in a big way.

483
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 5: But the way things work now, to think of it

484
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 5: simply is that the first thing to think about is

485
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 5: when they lost that presidential race, and the shadow of

486
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 5: Donald Trump is still looming above us.

487
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 4: But when they.

488
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 5: Lost it, instead of changing their candidates or changing their positions,

489
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 5: they decided, well, why don't we try to change our voters.

490
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 4: And that's why we saw the.

491
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 5: Reversals in certain states of some of the remedies that

492
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 5: made it easier for people to vote. Then the second

493
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 5: thing that happens is years of working on this, they

494
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 5: put in these ultra conservative Supreme Court justices, and as

495
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 5: I point out, the crazy way the Senate rules work now,

496
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 5: it takes only fifty one votes to put one of

497
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 5: those justices on, not sixty. So that's what you saw

498
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 5: in those numbers with Amy Coney, Barrett and Gorsic and Caapna. However,

499
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 5: to reverse what they do, like when they threw out

500
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 5: Roe v. Wade and the Dobbs decision. The way our

501
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 5: rules work in the Senate, even when we had the

502
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 5: majority in the House, it takes sixty votes to codify

503
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 5: Roe v. Wade into a lot.

504
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

505
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 5: It takes sixty votes to do something about voting rights

506
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 5: or immigration. And that is why I make this case

507
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 5: that you literally have this minority rule now on major

508
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 5: issues that affect Americans, when it only takes fifty one

509
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 5: votes to put those judges on, but it takes sixty

510
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 5: to reverse any of the change unless it's involving spending

511
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 5: and taxing. Because decades ago, Robert Byrd, who is no

512
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 5: longer with us, he died ten years ago, he somehow

513
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 5: not because it's in the Constitution created the Bird rule, right.

514
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 4: Yes, and so we are still abiding by that.

515
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: Will you explain what the Bird rule is for everyone

516
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: who and also me who's forgotten what it is but

517
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: know it exists.

518
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 5: Okay, so here it is. What's that about? Is that

519
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 5: if it's a about taxing or spending. It's something called reconciliation.

520
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 5: You can pass things with fifty one votes. And what's interesting,

521
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 5: and that's how we did the Inflation Reduction Act that

522
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 5: allowed us to do that great thing on the pharmaceutical crisis.

523
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 5: It allowed us to invest in climate change, but it

524
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 5: didn't allow us to do anything on immigration. It wouldn't

525
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 5: allow us to do anything on voting. It wouldn't allow

526
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 5: us to put Roe v. Wade into place. So it

527
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 5: is literally one of those exceptions that he carved out.

528
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 5: There are over one hundred and fifty exceptions to the filibuster,

529
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 5: including for compensation for space accidents.

530
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 4: That's only forty one.

531
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 5: Because over time, all right, go on, it's just unbelievable.

532
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 5: Over time, people were actually pragmatic. They said, well, this

533
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 5: is really important, we need to get it done, so

534
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 5: we'll make an exception. But somehow now when it comes

535
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 5: to people's very civil rights, we're not able to get

536
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 5: that exception. So that is one of the things I

537
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 5: go through in the book. But if I had to

538
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 5: say what brings the book together, it is this simple

539
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 5: idea that yes, we've had set backs, but the focus

540
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 5: in politics should not be to lament each and every setback,

541
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 5: but to rejoice in and move forward with the comebacks

542
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 5: and the story of how with this crazy rules in

543
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 5: place and the fifty to fifty Senate that last summer

544
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 5: about a year ago, when everyone counted us out, we

545
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 5: were able to get past the Inflation Reduction Act, which

546
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: I just explained, but also health care for our veteran

547
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 5: station by burn Pitt, the semiconductor bill to make chips

548
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 5: in America again, the beginnings of a gun safety law

549
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 5: that wasn't at all enough, but for the first time

550
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 5: we took on the NRA with our Republican colleagues, the

551
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 5: infrastructure law. So many of these things are bipartisan and

552
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 5: took a lot of hard work. But the point is,

553
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 5: believe me, and I'm sure you remember this moment. People

554
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 5: were counting out the President, they were counting out the

555
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 5: Democrats in the House and Senate, and we were able

556
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 5: to get this done.

557
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: So that's a.

558
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 5: Lot of the individual stories from my own life of

559
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 5: finding out I had breast cancer and having to go

560
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 5: to the Senate floor with a bunch of guys who

561
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 5: had no idea what this was or what it was

562
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 5: like to have hot finishes. Let me tell you that

563
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 5: and then getting through that and going on to work

564
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 5: with my colleagues to get these bills passed.

565
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: You know, that's joy.

566
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 5: It's joy to help constituents when a family's trying to

567
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 5: adopt a child from another country and they run into

568
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 5: red tape, or someone gets their benefits denied and you

569
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 5: fix it for them, or you come up with a

570
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 5: new idea for a law. And I think right now,

571
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 5: it's so easy to just hate our politics because of

572
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 5: all the divides. But I just want people to remember

573
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 5: that there are people that have hope and they never

574
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 5: give it up every single day, and they go to

575
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 5: work to get things done. But both elected officials and

576
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 5: staff and people in government in general.

577
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: I think about Biden, He's had incredibly successful presidency thus far.

578
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: Why is there so much noise about him having open

579
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: primaries not running again. I mean, can you just explain

580
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: this to me? I mean, I just don't get it.

581
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: Well, I think it is politics, and there's always going

582
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 5: to be people that are running, people who don't like

583
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 5: someone like someone. But I just kind of always go

584
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 5: back to having just spent the last four days in

585
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 5: my state just where people are, and I think people

586
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 5: got pretty exhausted by the pandemic. They were in the

587
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 5: three hundred million separate silos, right they got pissed off.

588
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 5: They were writing angry texts and tweets. And now suddenly

589
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 5: they're all in together. And wasn't always an easy transition,

590
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 5: but it's getting better every day. I think a lot

591
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 5: of them want one stability and they want to move forward.

592
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 5: They know we got workforce problems, they know it's hard

593
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 5: to get childcare and housing, and they want someone who's

594
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 5: going to work on it and not just look for divides.

595
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 5: So when I look to Joe Biden, I think there's

596
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 5: going to be quite the case to make We are

597
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 5: in a results business in politics, No matter all the

598
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 5: noise and what all the divides are and all the

599
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 5: mean stuff, we're in.

600
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 4: The results are into business. It results or no. He

601
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: got us through the pandemic. He put our economy on

602
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 4: strong footing, and it actually came out of the pandemic

603
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 4: in a better place than so many other nations did.

604
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 4: And he continues one by one to tackle the problems

605
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 4: of our nation and our world. And he led the

606
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 4: effort to bring people together on Ukraine. So I think

607
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 4: that there's going to be along with obviously presidents of Lensky.

608
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: I think there's going to be a lot of focus

609
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 4: on those results.

610
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: I think people.

611
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: Will when they get to the in the end, to

612
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 5: the ballot box, They're going to look at what results

613
00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 5: and what it matters to them.

614
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Are people just dissatisfied with presidents? I mean it just

615
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: is sort of baffling to me.

616
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 4: People have been through a lot.

617
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 5: So when you're gone through flat, don't you're not just like,

618
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 5: I love politics.

619
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 4: It's cool. I'm me up.

620
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: It like not the first thing.

621
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 5: And that's actually not to keep bringing this back, but

622
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 5: I wrote this book to get at that, because there

623
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 5: is understandable anger. In fact, my book was announced back

624
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 5: in November the same day as Bernie's book, and my

625
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 5: book is called The Joy of Politics, and Bernie's book

626
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 5: is called It's Okay to Be Angry at Capitalism.

627
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: And this was hilarious and so as your friends.

628
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: And as we went into December, I was trying to

629
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 5: get two bills past one involving the tech companies. Where

630
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 5: As my husband said to my daughter last summer, be

631
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 5: nice to your mom. This weekend, she's taking on the

632
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 5: four biggest companies in the world. Has ever known, and

633
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 5: she just got banned from Russia. So one of them

634
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 5: was that a tech bill, but the other one was

635
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 5: for the Afghan refugees to get them out of Limbo,

636
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 5: a bill I actually have with Lindsey Graham. So here

637
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 5: I am trying to get this done, and everywhere I

638
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 5: go it's it's roadblox and Bernie keeps watching me on

639
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 5: the floor. And then every night had come up to

640
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 5: me and say, I got one thing to say to you.

641
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 4: Where's the joy? Joy out there? Where's the joy?

642
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 5: And so one of the things that we all have

643
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 5: to do in our own lives right now, it's not

644
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 5: just politicians, is to just remember where we came from

645
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 5: a few years ago and where we are now. As

646
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 5: irritating as some stuff may be, our country is still

647
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 5: an amazing place to be. It's still a place where

648
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 5: people come to pursue their dreams. It's still a place

649
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 5: where you can grow up with nothing and through education

650
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 5: and just through it all do whatever you want, basically.

651
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of things, of course that hold

652
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 5: us back, but there's some amazing success stories in this country,

653
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 5: and I just don't want us to forget that or

654
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 5: forget what we stand for when it comes to freedom

655
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 5: and when it comes to a place where everyone has

656
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 5: the ability to get their fair shot.

657
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: Do you think there'll be tech regulation on the horizon?

658
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: I mean, where do you think we are right now?

659
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: Yes, I do, in part because the rest of the

660
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 5: world is moving. So a few things are going to

661
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 5: dictate change. The first is AI artificial intelligence. We're going

662
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 5: to have to put rules of the road in place

663
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 5: on that, which the companies themselves who are involved in

664
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 5: that part of tech have been very outwardly supportive of.

665
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 5: But we got to make sure it's the right regulations,

666
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 5: so that's going to happen. The second thing is other

667
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 5: countries are moving. Europe is moving big time on competition

668
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 5: policy and privacy, and I would like us to have

669
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 5: our own, uniquely American form of regulation. But at some

670
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 5: point the companies can't keep that. It's going to destroy

671
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 5: them when they're agreeing to it. In other places, that's

672
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 5: like you can't always put your own stuff at the

673
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 5: top of the search engine when you have thy percent

674
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 5: market share at Google, or you can't charge thirty percent

675
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 5: Apple and Google on the app store for certain companies

676
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 5: and not others and try to justify why it would

677
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 5: be that much on every sale made, or you can't

678
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 5: copy other products like Amazon has been wont to do

679
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 5: at times, or that you can't get hood kids hooked

680
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 5: on fentanyl by putting allowing cartels to lace pills with

681
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 5: ventanyl and then saying you don't have enough people to

682
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 5: take things down, which we're seeing on Facebook and some

683
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 5: of these other social media platforms.

684
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: These are all big deal things.

685
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 5: So I think the combination of AI Europe moving and

686
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 5: then how bad it's getting just makes me believe that

687
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 5: some of this is going to pass. So I'm in

688
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 5: it for the long game, as much as they wish

689
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 5: that wasn't true.

690
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 4: But as I see, you know, we have losing.

691
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 5: A third of the nation's newspapers by the year twenty

692
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 5: twenty five. Yeah, I think that the news organization should

693
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 5: be able to combine their leverage to get better rates

694
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 5: from Facebook and Google. So that's one of the bills

695
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 5: that we got through the committee recently, and any example

696
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 5: of what I'm pushing. I don't want to destroy these companies.

697
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 5: They've given us great things, but this idea that we

698
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 5: don't put any rules in place. It was Adam Smith,

699
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 5: the godfather of capitalism, who the founding Fathers saw is

700
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 5: one of their major major inspirations. When it came to

701
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 5: the economy, it was he who said in mister invisible Hand.

702
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 5: He was the one that said, beware the standing army

703
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 5: of monopolies. And that's why we have always, on a

704
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 5: bipartisan basis, put in competitive guardrails and competition policy. But

705
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 5: somehow tech has just been able to say, Hey, you

706
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 5: can't sue us, there's no rules. We're like companies in

707
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 5: a garage. But guess what garage anymore. We're the biggest

708
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 5: companies in the world. So I hope that they'll come around,

709
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 5: given what's happening in the rest of the world and

710
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 5: how another industrialized nations are agreeing to rules or getting

711
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 5: it's not really up to them. Is that right now

712
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 5: in Washington it is. They seem to control a lot

713
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 5: of decisions. And so my hope is that the public

714
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 5: will rise up. And we've already seen this with privacy,

715
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 5: and it's going to start being a thing in elections.

716
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 5: One mom likened her situation. I did a thing before

717
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 5: Hakeem was the minority leader. He and I did a

718
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 5: joint thing with moms from Brooklyn and from Minnesota, and

719
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 5: one of the moms said that she had three kids

720
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 5: and for the youngest, she just could not keep up

721
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 5: with all the sites that the child was on, way

722
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 5: too young for the sites are on. Kept enlisting the

723
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 5: older kid to try to help her to do workarounds

724
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 5: and to stop it and to do everything she could.

725
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 5: And she said she felt like a water fossl was

726
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 5: on and the water was overflowing and she was out

727
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 5: there with a mop by herself, just trying to clean

728
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 5: it up. And I think that really captures how a

729
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 5: lot of parents feel right now about what's happening on

730
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 5: the internet.

731
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, Amy koebershar Well, thank you Mollie. A joy

732
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: to be on with you. Hi, it's Mollie and I

733
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: am wildly excited that for the first time, Fast Politics,

734
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: the show you're listening to right now, is going to

735
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: have merch for sale over at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com.

736
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: You can now buy shirts, hats, hoodies, and toe bags

737
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Speaker 1: with our incredible designs. We've heard your cries to spread

738
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: the word about our podcast and get a tow bag

739
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: with my adorable Leo the rescue Puppy on it and

740
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 1: now you can grab this merchandise only at shop dot

741
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: fastpoliticspod dot com. Thanks for your support. Jennifer Paulmary is

742
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: the co host of Showtimes a Circus and a political advisor.

743
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Jennifer Paul Mary.

744
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 3: Thank you, Mollie.

745
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 4: It's loateful to be with.

746
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: You, delighted to have you. So I want to talk

747
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: to you about the big piece you wrote in the

748
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: magazine that I am a special correspondent for and you

749
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: are also a special correspondent or.

750
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: Some No, I'm not as cool as that. I'm just

751
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 3: a contributing editor.

752
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: An unspecial correspondent. I'm kidding, of course, talk to me

753
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: about the governor of Michigan.

754
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 3: I met Gretchen Witmer in the Saul of twenty twenty

755
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 3: in the middle of the pandemic, right. I went out

756
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 3: to Lansing to interview her for Showtime the Circus about

757
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 3: how she was dealing with the politics around COVID. And

758
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 3: you know, I worked for Hillary Clinton on her presenters

759
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: of the campaign, as our communications are very interested in

760
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: women leaders, writing a couple of books about it. What

761
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: struck me about her right away is I was like, Wow,

762
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: she does not take the criticism personally. You know, at

763
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: that point Trump had already done the whole that woman

764
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: from Michigan a couple of times, you know, said that

765
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: gone after her in that way.

766
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 4: I was there on.

767
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: Constitution Day, so it was September seventeenth, I believed, twenty twenty,

768
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 3: and there was a Second Amendment pro Second Amendment rally

769
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: at the Capitol, you know, a couple miles from her house,

770
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: all sorts of assault weapons. There, a lot of like

771
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 3: ditch the witch signs people trying to get a repeal

772
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: effort underway.

773
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 4: Bill Barr had been.

774
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 3: In Michigan the day before, addressing a college and said

775
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 3: that complaint compared her COVID lockdowns to slave And what

776
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: we came to find out three weeks later was she

777
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 3: was the target of this kidnapping and assassination plot.

778
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 4: And what's crazy, you know.

779
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: And she told me later that when I talked to

780
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 3: her about all of these things in her backyard and

781
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: Lansing in September of twenty twenty, she already knew about

782
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: the plot. She didn't talk about it yet, but she

783
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 3: already knew, and she knew that Bill Barr knew, and

784
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 3: he still said these things that he said to her

785
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,919
Speaker 3: about her and about you know, slavery, and she talked

786
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 3: about when we did the interview, she talked about what

787
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 3: the administration says and how this rile peoples up and

788
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: it is dangerous. And I was just really struck that

789
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 3: she pushes back, doesn't give in, doesn't change her position

790
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 3: in the face of all this criticism, and manages not

791
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: to take it personally, which was which is different than

792
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 3: what I've seen for other leaders. And like from what

793
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 3: I experienced personally with when Hillary was attacked, you know,

794
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: you're thinking, you're attacked, we must be doing something wrong.

795
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: And so I wanted to come back and spend a

796
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 3: week with her to figure out, like, where is this

797
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: coming from. She's a gen X leader. She's not the

798
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: first through the door, right, She's Jennifer grand Home was

799
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 3: the first woman governor of Michigan, so gradual womber watch

800
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 3: Jennifer Grant.

801
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 4: Help take a lot of things there.

802
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: She watched Hillary take a lot of things and arrows.

803
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 3: And so there's an interesting thing happening now with gen

804
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 3: x women leaders coming to the floor, and you know

805
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 3: they're able to They're able to deal with some of

806
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 3: this some of the incoming better. And obviously Michigan has

807
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 3: this incredible amount of women leaders. All three of state

808
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 3: bid elected officers or women, the ag, the Secretary of State,

809
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 3: forty percent of the state legislature, which is now Democrat

810
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 3: after being both houses being held by Republicans first time

811
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 3: in forty years. Half of the Congressional delegation are women.

812
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 3: So there's just a lot of interesting happening with women

813
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 3: in Michigan, and I wanted to explore.

814
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: So I want you to say a little more about

815
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: what it means, because this is something I spend a

816
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about. How do you feel like this?

817
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 1: This ability to not take it personally is an asset

818
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: for a woman running at the national level, which she

819
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 1: obviously will be soon.

820
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I will, like well, I think that

821
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: she would be a very good presidential contender if she

822
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: did choose to, you know, in twenty eight or whenever

823
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 3: it is, if she does choose to run. But you know,

824
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 3: one of the things that happened when in the Clinton

825
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 3: campaign was I had this epiphany very late, like in

826
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 3: October of twenty sixteen, and I was like trying to

827
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 3: think of why everybody hated her so much.

828
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 4: I just watched footage from like the last.

829
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 3: Locker up rally, and I just had this thought that

830
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 3: what we had done was show that Hillary Clinton could

831
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: do the job the same way the job has always

832
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 3: been done, which means the same way a man has

833
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 3: done the job, which means you're robbing her of half

834
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: of her humanity, which means, of course people think inauthentic. Right,

835
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 3: of course, people think that she's suspicious or hiding something

836
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 3: because we were trying to force her, you know, force

837
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 3: like a square peg into a round hole. And I

838
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: still thought she would win at that time, but it

839
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: was sort of like this chasm opened up, and I

840
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 3: saw how much it matters the role models we have

841
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 3: in our head. We just had no other way to

842
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: think about a president other than had that it is

843
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 3: done by a man, and so I'm looking for women

844
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 3: that are speaking a little differently about leadership. And to

845
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 3: see that she didn't take it personally, which I have

846
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 3: to say, you know, Hillary would always say, I listened

847
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 3: to curticism, I try not to take it personally. I

848
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 3: listened to like what I can learn from and then

849
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 3: try to disregard the rest. But still it was hard

850
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 3: to not think at the root of all the criticism

851
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 3: that you know you personally are doing something wrong, and

852
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 3: you know whitmer two important things I think for her

853
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 3: seeing grand Home succeed, be attack, Hillary succeed and be attacked.

854
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 4: Is she expected to succeed.

855
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: And do well in politics and knew not to take

856
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 3: it seriously when people came after her, And so I

857
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 3: think that that makes you you lose a sense of

858
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 3: defensiveness that you know, it's encumbersome. It's cumbersome for any candidate,

859
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 3: but particularly for women. And you're just relatable. And the

860
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: thing that she always talks about, you know, you ask

861
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 3: people like what shipu's leader?

862
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 4: What motivates yous? And she has and some level.

863
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 3: Very common answer that I had found frustrating until I

864
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: went friends of time with her, which was, well, I'm

865
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: part of the Sandwich generation. I had to take care

866
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 3: of my terminally ill mother when she was dying and

867
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 3: take care of my daughter at the same time, and

868
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: that was frustrating to deal with insurance companies, so it

869
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 3: set her. She didn't set her default to action, but

870
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 3: also she knew how to get things done. And you're like, okay,

871
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 3: that sounds very common and it's and to women, a

872
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: very common experience for women, sort of a unique experience women,

873
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 3: that's experiences unique for women. And then I thought, of

874
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 3: course that's it, Like, that's it, Molly, Like, we now

875
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: see this is lead, This is a different role, This

876
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 3: is a different style leadership, This is a different model

877
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 3: of leadership. And we recognize that. We see how there

878
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 3: are a lot of women that can relate to that.

879
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: And then this is one thing that was striking to

880
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: me because normally with women leaders, you don't hear people

881
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 3: say when you ask them what do you think of

882
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 3: that person? They don't normally say she's just like me,

883
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: she's one of us, right, No, it's certainly not, but

884
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 3: that's what they say about her. I also, I would say,

885
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 3: I've heard that said about Amy clubis sharm. When I

886
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 3: would go to clublish our events in New Hampshire. When

887
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 3: she was running for president, people would say like, oh,

888
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 3: she's just one of us, She's just a normal middle

889
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 3: class mom, normal middle class mom ten fifteen years ago.

890
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: But then they wouldn't vote for her.

891
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 3: Didn't mean, right, someone are gonna be president and that's like,

892
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: so what's really exciting? And like, Whitmer is sort of

893
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: a to tell this story. But she's not the only

894
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 3: woman that's like that, right, So that that's what's exciting.

895
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 4: It's like, as I'm looking for.

896
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: I'm not one of the people that believes a woman

897
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 3: can't win or like God for biby, try that again,

898
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 3: because Hillary got more votes, right, she proved a woman

899
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 3: can win, and she did it with halfy humanity.

900
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 4: Tied behind her back.

901
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 3: I'm looking for progress to see women don't have to

902
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: model themselves after men in order to be seen as

903
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 3: leaders and like what the advent of? You know? And

904
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 3: I think part of the reason why Witmer is able

905
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 3: to shed all of that is because there are so

906
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 3: many women leaders in Michigan, so they're not just judged

907
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 3: by you know, because otherwise people expect each woman to

908
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 3: embody the qualities of all women, and then that's an

909
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 3: impossible standard. Feel like that's one of the things that

910
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 3: happened to Hillary. Because there are so many women leaders,

911
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: they're judged on their own ability, not as a composite,

912
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 3: fake person.

913
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 4: I'm able to relate better with voters.

914
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Or like the last country in the world who can't

915
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: fucking get it together? What do you think that is?

916
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 4: I think a.

917
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 3: Big piece of it is how we elect leaders in

918
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 3: a parliamentary system. It would be easier because you know,

919
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 3: consider this if Hillary had they've had a parliamentary system,

920
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 3: and then rather than going through a primary, you were

921
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 3: selected by your peers. Women do well with their peers,

922
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: you can, you know, so you're selected by so in

923
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 3: this case, say five hundred and thirty five members of Congress,

924
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 3: you know roughly three hundred Democrats say, if you are

925
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 3: making your argument to you know three or four hundred

926
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,720
Speaker 3: people who are able to know you as an individual.

927
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 3: They can know you, and this is so important, they

928
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 3: can talk about you right to others as a human,

929
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 3: as an individual, and when you go before the country,

930
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 3: you're going you're going before the country as your parties,

931
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 3: as these people have are all your validators. They have

932
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: selected you, rather than wanting in an open primary where

933
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 3: you don't have that kind of validation, and you're not

934
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 3: able to get to know the people who are secting

935
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 3: know as leader one on one. And I know Hillary

936
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: Clinton believes that is like the big problem. And then

937
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 3: there's just you know, American culture. It's such a big culture,

938
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 3: such a big country.

939
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 4: So not very male dominated in most professions.

940
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 3: Still there haven't been like these avenues for women to

941
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 3: come through and be able to have their stories be heard.

942
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 3: But I really do think it's possible.

943
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: You don't think Americans are just fucking sexist, right.

944
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 3: I think that everyone has unconscious gender bias, and then

945
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 3: that is pretty crippling in the country's gender bias, we've

946
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 3: unconscious race bias.

947
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 4: And it's not just a.

948
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 3: Problem on the right by any means, and I think

949
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 3: sometimes it's you know, I experienced it a lot with Democrats.

950
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 3: The problem with Democrats is they're so sure they're not

951
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: racist and they're not sexist. They're very if they don't

952
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: like a woman, and very like think that there's a

953
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: legitimate reason for it, as opposed to like welling into

954
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 3: those those kinds of traps.

955
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: I've seen this a lot, by the way, a lot.

956
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: I remember a man who very involved in democratic politics

957
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: explaining to me why he wasn't racist or sexist. He

958
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 1: just didn't like the vice president.

959
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 4: Also didn't like Hillary, also didn't like him. Was this Warren?

960
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, not racist or sexist, She's just not. And

961
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: then the things you hear about Kamala Harris are all

962
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 3: the things that are said about.

963
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: That are said by racist senexus.

964
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 4: Well, like, what are her credentials?

965
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: There's just something about her.

966
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 3: I don't like, we had an acronym for it, t

967
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 3: sajh idl.

968
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 4: There's just something about her.

969
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 3: I don't like, there's just about her just and they

970
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 3: can't get to the root of it because it is

971
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 3: like the psychiciotist thing, you know. But with Harris, it's like, well,

972
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 3: what's she really doing? And there's good research about this.

973
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: People assume a woman leader's not getting anything done unless

974
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 3: she's over communicating about it, or like, what are really

975
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 3: her credentials? With happening with Harris, the constant head one

976
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:10,919
Speaker 3: she faces, you're like, there you go.

977
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 4: She's first. She's first in many ways in.

978
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: The Harris situation, I do think you have the incredible

979
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: problem of being vice president, which is that is a

980
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: job totally I mean, it's you know, they made a

981
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 1: whole show about it. It's the worst job in the world.

982
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: You're both the most important and also completely you know, overshadowed.

983
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 3: Talk about mismatched expectations for someone coming into a job.

984
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 3: She's so exceptional. She's the first, she's the first woman,

985
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 3: she's the first Black woman, she's the first Asian woman.

986
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 4: She's going to ignite this ticket on you know.

987
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 3: And she's going to be this historic, groundbreaking, exciting vice president.

988
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 3: But you know what she really is vice president, which

989
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 3: is very much behind the scenes job. You know, I

990
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 3: have pretty an insight to how she spends her days.

991
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: It is the days of a shadow president, because her

992
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 3: most important job is to be ready to do that job. Right.

993
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 3: So but that's not you know, that's not set up

994
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 3: to meet expectations of excitement.

995
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 4: It's a very very like that's a very tough situation

996
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 4: to be.

997
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: Talk to me about what the governor is is up

998
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: to now?

999
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 4: So what's interesting about her?

1000
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 3: When I think she's you know, we sort of know

1001
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 3: for her sort of a disservice to hers. We sort

1002
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 3: of know her by you know, all the crazy things

1003
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: that have happened to her, men showing up at her

1004
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 3: home at office with guns to complain about the job

1005
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 3: she's doing, the plot and like that.

1006
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 1: That's like a very Michigan thing. I mean, I feel

1007
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: like every elected woman in Michigan has a story of

1008
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: like some guys showing up at her office with a gun.

1009
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 3: Jocelyn Ben's in the Secretary of State I think Mally

1010
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 3: Moros is a state you know, state senator.

1011
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 4: She's sort of you.

1012
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: Know, I'm sure Debbie Dingle has a story like that.

1013
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, go on, yeah, Debbie Dingle, Debby seven out. And

1014
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 3: so it's sort of distracting. But I've thought a lot

1015
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 3: about why that was happening to Whitmer on such a

1016
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 3: you know, dramatic scale, and I think that from Michigan.

1017
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 3: And I really think it's it's the patriarchy crumbling. Look,

1018
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 3: it's it's the debris that hits you as the thing

1019
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: is crumbling, Because what's happening in Michigan is women leaders

1020
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 3: are not the exception. Women leaders are the rule. I

1021
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 3: think that's the reckoning that women leaders of this generation

1022
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 3: of Gen X millennial are going through. First through the

1023
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 3: door of the baby armor's a ton of blowback, next

1024
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 3: wave through the door, getting a lot of blowback. But

1025
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 3: where's it coming from. It's coming from the fact. I mean,

1026
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: if you are resorting to guns, as you know, as

1027
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 3: some people did in Michigan to stop a woman who

1028
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:50,919
Speaker 3: is already in charge, that is its own admission that

1029
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 3: you have lost if you're trying to keep women from

1030
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 3: having power. So I think you know, so I am

1031
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: not pessimistic about how people feel about women. Are leaders,

1032
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 3: are women's chances, because I think that's probably what this

1033
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: reckoning is, kind of the battle of the bulge for

1034
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 3: some men that you know, obviously not all that want

1035
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 3: to stop women in power. But the other thing is

1036
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 3: that Lemmer just keeps winning. She was first elected in

1037
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 3: two thousand, so she spent almost twenty five years in

1038
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 3: politics and has never won election by less than eight

1039
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: a general election by less than eight points. Dramatically overperforms

1040
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 3: and she's very skilled. She finds a way to win.

1041
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 3: Winning a trifecta both Republicans. The Republicans controlled both the

1042
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 3: House and the Senate and the state legislature. She had

1043
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: a plan for how they might win back both houses.

1044
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: It seemed unlikely they managed to get it done. I

1045
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 3: talked to one reporter who said, everyone in Lansing understands

1046
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 3: the only reason the Democrats are in charge, the only

1047
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: reason a house the Senate Democrat has their seat is

1048
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 3: because of this is because of her in the kind

1049
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: of campaign that that she ran, and she's very aggressively

1050
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 3: moving forward a very gressive agenda. Now, sometimes your strength

1051
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 3: becomes your weakness. Right, you could see a scenario in

1052
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 3: which some of the things that she passed may end

1053
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: at being unpopular or problematic in the implementation. Like what

1054
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 3: I haven't seeing. There's not anything that I've seen that

1055
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 3: they've taken to date that would be in that category.

1056
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: There's some tax rebates, some Democrats even don't like some

1057
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 3: tax preferences for car companies. Things like that, a lot

1058
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 3: of money, a lot of money going out the door,

1059
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 3: whether in the form of a tax rebates or being

1060
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 3: or you know, those kinds of things that can you

1061
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 3: just never know how these things play out, right, they

1062
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: can come back at you.

1063
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 4: So it is it's not as if.

1064
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 3: She has this, you know, not anybody's got some kind

1065
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 3: of easy, easy path for you don't know how many

1066
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 3: things are going to play out.

1067
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 4: But what she is, you know, and I told her

1068
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 4: about you have a very divided state politically. Do you

1069
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 4: think that you should.

1070
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 3: Trend your expectations or maybe taper or put moderate a

1071
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 3: position based on where other people are? And she said no.

1072
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 3: She said that she thinks her job is to make

1073
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 3: the most informed say and she has a very rigorous

1074
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 3: decision making process, really impressively led by.

1075
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 4: Her chief has stabbed jo Anne. Hal's very rigorous, very inclusive.

1076
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 3: Once it made a decision, they stick with it and

1077
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:11,320
Speaker 3: they get it done.

1078
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 4: And she's like, my job is to go was flame.

1079
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 3: Why I think it's the right thing to people don't

1080
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 3: agree with it, So you could see how like that

1081
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 3: could you know, that could create political problems down the hike.

1082
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 3: But she seems at peace with this. And then also

1083
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 3: the attacks, they haven't they take a toll. She's been

1084
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 3: clear on that. She's been clear of the tactic under

1085
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 3: her family. She's kind of been dealing with this her

1086
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: whole career. A very interesting thing about her, and I

1087
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 3: think it's being her age right because like I said before,

1088
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 3: like she's coming into this reckoning of like people coming

1089
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 3: to terms with women being in power for real and

1090
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 3: over long periods of time, not just a one off.

1091
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 4: GRETUA member is the first person to have figned a

1092
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 4: warrant for Larry Nasser, the US gymnastics doctor.

1093
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 3: She was in the middle of that fight because a

1094
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 3: because the county prosecutor, a man had to resign because

1095
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 3: he was part of a human traffic chex ring and

1096
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 3: she was asked to come in and fill out the term,

1097
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 3: so like the point being something BIG's going on here, right,

1098
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 3: She's just kind of in the you know, she's been

1099
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 3: in the eye of that storm and been in it

1100
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 3: for a while, so pretty comfortable in dealing with them.

1101
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting. Thank you so much. I hope

1102
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: you'll come back.

1103
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 4: Michigan women. You're fascinating Michigan women.

1104
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: We love it. Good for them, no more perfectly. Jesse Cannon,

1105
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: Molly Jong Fast.

1106
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 6: You know that Joe Biden is an evil dictator when

1107
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 6: his son actually, wait, how did I mess that up?

1108
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 6: That's right, He's not an evil dictator. His son actually

1109
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 6: had a deplete guilty for his text troubles.

1110
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: So I think it's important that we just talk about

1111
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: this for a minute. One of the things Republicans have

1112
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: been just losing their minds about is Hunter Biden. You

1113
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: will have seen his pictures. You will have seen people

1114
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: he said this, he'sa that. But I would want to

1115
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: point out so he had a gun charge and some

1116
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: tax stuff. He didn't pay his taxes. He owed thirty

1117
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in proper deductions and filing his taxes, like

1118
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: Roger Stone and his wife said with the DJ last

1119
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: year for two million dollars in unpaid taxes. There was

1120
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: no outrage. It was just a normal day. So people

1121
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: settle with the irs all the time. I'm not defending

1122
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden because honestly, who cares. But Republicans are just furious.

1123
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: And the reason why it's our moment of fuckery is

1124
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: that you can never make these people happy. There is

1125
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: no world in which telling these people they will never

1126
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: think it's enough. They will never feel that Joe Biden

1127
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: has held Hunter accountable enough. And for that that is

1128
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 1: our moment of fuckery. That's it for this episode. To

1129
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: Fast Politics, tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to

1130
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 1: hear the best minds in politics make sense of all

1131
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send

1132
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. And again,

1133
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: thanks for listening.