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Speaker 1: Tyie Gibson is back. She has become one of the

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Speaker 1: leading voices in attachment theory and subconscious healing. You guys

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Speaker 1: might remember her from her last appearance on Velvet's Edge,

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Speaker 1: where we broke down shadow work. I didn't remember tyis

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Speaker 1: what we had talked about, and I went back and looked,

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Speaker 1: and I thought that was a really good topic. But

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Speaker 1: we talked about how everyone identifying your shadow in relationships

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Speaker 1: is so helpful and that can really change your relationship.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna do a little more relationship deep dives

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Speaker 1: today and we're talking about the six stages every relationship

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Speaker 1: moves through, what can make or break them, and how

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Speaker 1: to move through each one with more awareness and love. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad to have you back.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 3: I remember leaving our last conversation just thinking like what

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Speaker 3: a great talk it was, and just what a great

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Speaker 3: host you were and what great questions you asked. So

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to hang out and join you today.

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Speaker 1: Well, I just had to start pressing record because we

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Speaker 1: started talking about the topic and I felt like we

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Speaker 1: were doing the podcast, and what I was saying to

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Speaker 1: you was I feel like in the conversations with my friends.

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Speaker 1: We're having all these conversations about relationship, but nobody is

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Speaker 1: really identifying any of these stages. And we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to that in just a second. But instead of

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Speaker 1: identifying that, oh, maybe we're in this stage, people just

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Speaker 1: leave their relationship or think this isn't going to work,

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Speaker 1: just to go repeat the pattern in the next one.

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Speaker 1: So I think this is really important to talk about,

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Speaker 1: and it's not something that I've seen widely discussed at all.

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Speaker 1: So maybe let's just start and give the listeners what

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Speaker 1: are the six stages of the relationship of relationships?

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Speaker 3: I love that you said that too, because you're exactly right,

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Speaker 3: and that's actually why I created this content, is that

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Speaker 3: people often get stuck in a stage and they don't

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Speaker 3: realize that they just need to learn a couple of

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Speaker 3: different ways of approaching that stage of the relationship in

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Speaker 3: order to make it through to the preceding stages, and instead,

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Speaker 3: because they feel stuck and going to learn helplessness, then

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Speaker 3: blame the relationship or themselves and then they're like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: this isn't working, and then they leave.

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Speaker 2: When a lot of.

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Speaker 3: Those things are actually very solvable problems. But when people

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Speaker 3: feel stuck, they don't recognize it.

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Speaker 2: So the six.

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Speaker 3: Stages really boil down into you know what stage our

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Speaker 3: relationship is in if we are in one, and how

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Speaker 3: to make sure that if we're feeling stuck, or even

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Speaker 3: if we're not feeling stuck, we just have the rights

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Speaker 3: of passage and the lessons we need to learn to

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Speaker 3: move to the next stage ahead of time so we.

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Speaker 2: Can kind of glide through easily.

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Speaker 3: But also if you're single, exactly like you said, often

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Speaker 3: people will go through the same cycles, keep getting stuck

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Speaker 3: at the exact same stage and then and relationships feeling

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Speaker 3: like that was such a disappointment or that was a heartbreak,

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Speaker 3: and even have trepidation going into potential future relationships thinking,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, am I gonna get my heart broken again.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to go through that again. And oftentimes

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Speaker 3: it's just one or two small lessons that they really

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Speaker 3: need to learn in a certain stage that can make

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Speaker 3: relationships so much more fulfilling and effortless. So to go

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Speaker 3: into it the sixth stages, the first stage is the

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Speaker 3: dating stage, and we'll break you to these down and

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Speaker 3: like so much detail, but the intent here is to

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Speaker 3: vet properly, and if you don't do the dating stage properly,

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Speaker 3: you set yourself up for kind of disaster quite honestly

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Speaker 3: in the later stages, especially the ones that get trickier.

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Speaker 3: So we'll get into that. But then we have the

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Speaker 3: honeymoon stage, which nobody really brings up. In the honeymoon stage,

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Speaker 3: it's the rose colored glasses, you're the best, strange. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: a great stage, and then everybody's usually really happy in

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Speaker 3: that stage. But then you go into the power struggle stage.

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Speaker 3: And in the power struggle stage specifically, people end up.

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Speaker 3: You know, statistically it's where most relationships end and people

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Speaker 3: break up. But also in the power struggle stage, what

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Speaker 3: people don't realize is that, yes, there's a crisis of yes.

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Speaker 2: We've dropped the mask.

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Speaker 3: We were more comfortable, so now we let each other

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Speaker 3: know our real triggers and fears and we're not on

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Speaker 3: our best behavior anymore.

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Speaker 2: In the power struggle stage, right, and it's it's.

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Speaker 3: Elevating conflicts and people think, oh, no, there's more conflicts,

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Speaker 3: But there's something beautiful about not being on your best behavior,

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Speaker 3: like when you're really letting someone in. And if we

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Speaker 3: do the power struggle stage, right, it's actually an invitation

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Speaker 3: to move from more conditionally based love, which is rooted

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Speaker 3: in infatuation and like excitement, which is beautiful, but into

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Speaker 3: really building deeper roots. Like you can almost imagine if

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Speaker 3: we nourish the relationship and the power struggle stage properly

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Speaker 3: and we learn the right lessons that is essentially unlock

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Speaker 3: the future stages.

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Speaker 2: Then one ends up taking.

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Speaker 3: Place is we suddenly feel like, oh, this person loves

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Speaker 3: and accepts me as I am without my mask on,

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Speaker 3: and I feel more connected and I feel more supported

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Speaker 3: with this person from this perspective. So then we have

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Speaker 3: the power struggle, and then we move into if we

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Speaker 3: get out of the power struggle in a healthy way,

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Speaker 3: we have what I've now renamed the rhythm stage of relationships.

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Speaker 3: So we find our rhythm with somebody, we're in our

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Speaker 3: flow with one another, and we're in a place where

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Speaker 3: we're going okay. We actually understand each other each other's

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Speaker 3: fears and flaws and wounds, and we know how to

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Speaker 3: be mindful of those things. And it's really interesting because

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Speaker 3: we'll get into a lot of this in much more detail,

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Speaker 3: but you find generally that if you could almost graph

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Speaker 3: conflict Conflok's great, it's easy. There's nothing going on in

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Speaker 3: the dating and honeymoon stage, you're very minimal. Then the

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Speaker 3: power struggle stage really like you know, hits this peak

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Speaker 3: pivotal point. But if we make it out of the

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Speaker 3: power struggle stage, the conflict goes way down. And so

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Speaker 3: a lot of people in the power struggle stage will

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Speaker 3: be like, oh my gosh, we have to talk about

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Speaker 3: stuff all the time. It's so tiring, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: if you talk about things correctly, then you won't end

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Speaker 3: up having to continuously talk about them. And so just

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Speaker 3: as an example, like you know, I had two clients

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Speaker 3: back when I was running my practice, and it was

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Speaker 3: a husband and wife, and the wife really wanted her

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Speaker 3: husband to be more present. He was a little bit restless.

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Speaker 3: He was dismissive, avoidant in relationships, so he was a

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Speaker 3: little restless, struggle to be present, and he really wanted

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Speaker 3: her to be more sensitive. She was anxiously attached, but

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Speaker 3: sometimes she was a little bit critical, and he wanted

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Speaker 3: her to be more sensitive to how she was speaking

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Speaker 3: to him and delivering her criticism or feedback. And of course,

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Speaker 3: if you don't work through these things, properly. It's always

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Speaker 3: a pro but if you do the power struggle stage correctly.

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Speaker 3: Then the wife actually ended up going to her husband saying, Hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, I really need more presents from you and

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Speaker 3: attune minute times. Can we have these habits so we

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Speaker 3: have like a fifteen minute coffee time in the morning

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Speaker 3: where we sit together, we have half an hour before

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Speaker 3: bed where we really chat with each other unpack our day,

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Speaker 3: and if we're going on a date or spending time together,

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Speaker 3: just the two of us, phones are away. And because

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Speaker 3: he was willing to do that, he was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'll work towards that.

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Speaker 2: I'll do that.

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Speaker 3: So then they establish that in the relationship. In turn,

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Speaker 3: she was practicing being much more mindful with how she

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Speaker 3: delivered her feedback or shared her needs. Instead of through criticism,

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Speaker 3: she would say instead of saying, hey, you're not doing enough.

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Speaker 3: I don't you know you don't care about me, instead

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Speaker 3: she would say, hey, I need you to practice being.

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Speaker 1: Present right now. This is important for me.

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Speaker 3: And as they mapped that problem out and solved for it,

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Speaker 3: then it got habituated into the relationship. It became their

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Speaker 3: new baseline, their new normal. And that's precisely how you

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Speaker 3: know you're moving out of the power struggle stage and

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Speaker 3: into the rhythm because when you're in this position of

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Speaker 3: you've fallen into naturally doing these things. Now you naturally

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Speaker 3: are more present, you're naturally more mindful of of how

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Speaker 3: you deliver feedback to your spouse or to your partner.

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Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden, you found your footing in

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Speaker 3: the relationship and there's a much deeper connection, and you've

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Speaker 3: really move the needle from more conditionally based love to

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Speaker 3: more unconditionally based love. Because now you're sitting here going, okay,

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Speaker 3: you know you really understand me, You love me as

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Speaker 3: I am. I've shared my interfers and concerns with you

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Speaker 3: and my needs. Then you're meeting them and so you know, yes,

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Speaker 3: you'll have to have those conversations in the power struggle stage,

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Speaker 3: but if you do it correctly, it's actually something that

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Speaker 3: deepens the connection in a really powerful way. And that's

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Speaker 3: when you're in that rhythm stage where you get to

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Speaker 3: sort of catch your breath. So we'll go into them

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Speaker 3: in more detail, but then at a higher level after that,

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Speaker 3: we have the growth stage that comes next. So we

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Speaker 3: have this rhythm stage, we find a rhythm. Then we

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Speaker 3: go into growth or what I like to call devotion,

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Speaker 3: where we really devote to the future of the relationship

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Speaker 3: and to future commitments. And then after that growth stage,

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Speaker 3: which we'll get into, we get into the everlasting stage.

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Speaker 3: And the everlasting stage is truly where relationships I feel

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Speaker 3: like the honeymoon stage, but this time around you know

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Speaker 3: each other so much more deeply, and you fostered such

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Speaker 3: a deeper connection. And at that point too, I think

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Speaker 3: that people who go through these cycles of always going

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Speaker 3: you know, dating, honeymoon, power, struggle, break up, they think

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Speaker 3: that love should always be infatuation based love, and they

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Speaker 3: haven't necessarily had a taste or a deep experience of

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Speaker 3: like the everlasting stage, where love is rooted in deep

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Speaker 3: fulfillment and deep knowing, deep understanding of one another, deep

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Speaker 3: protection for your bond because you've built something together that's

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Speaker 3: so meaningful and enriching. I see this so often with

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Speaker 3: people in our programs. They come in they go, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but like, how do I know my partner won't cheat,

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Speaker 3: or how do I know my partner won't you know,

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Speaker 3: be interested in somebody else in five years? You know,

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Speaker 3: how can I really know I can connect and commit,

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Speaker 3: and they get scared of being abandoned or betrayed. But like,

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Speaker 3: once you get into the everlasting stage of relationship.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't happen.

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Speaker 3: Be statistically, it's almost it's almost a zero percent chance

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Speaker 3: once you get to that stage that that really happens.

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Speaker 3: Because when people really deeply build something, it's almost like

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Speaker 3: if somebody's going to build a business and they're gonna

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Speaker 3: put their blood, sweat and tears into it and care

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Speaker 3: about it and build it and it's on their terms

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Speaker 3: and what they love, you're not going to turn around

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Speaker 3: and then sabotage it way some other business opportunity comes along.

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Speaker 3: That's teeny tiny, right, You're not going to turn around

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Speaker 3: and be like, oh, I've built a business for ten years,

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Speaker 3: let me just turn around and I know there's a

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Speaker 3: business opportunity over here. Who cares about what I'm building?

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Speaker 2: Let me walk away later? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: And so people get to this point where they built that,

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Speaker 3: they've created it, they've done the work, and the problem

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Speaker 3: is that people think, oh, no, my partner could be

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Speaker 3: interested in somebody else or leave the relationship either when

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Speaker 3: they've been in the power struggle stage their entire marriage

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Speaker 3: which can happen people can get stuck in there for

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Speaker 3: decades and they've never made their way out, or when

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Speaker 3: people have never lived beyond the power struggle stage in

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Speaker 3: any relationship, and so they think that literally relationships are

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Speaker 3: either infatuation based love and then power struggle, or then

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Speaker 3: they assume, well, then what if my partner just gets

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Speaker 3: infatoriated with somebody else, or what if they change their mind?

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Speaker 3: Or what happens when the infatuation changes into something else?

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Speaker 3: What happens when we get settled in after a decade

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Speaker 3: of being together and there's this fear around it because

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Speaker 3: there isn't this understanding that wait, there's nothing to fear.

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Speaker 3: It's actually very a really beautiful and riching experience if

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Speaker 3: you do it correctly. So exactly to your point. Your

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Speaker 3: conscious mind speaks in language, but your subconscious mind speaks

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Speaker 3: in emotions and images. So if you say, if I say, okay,

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Speaker 3: whatever you do, do not think of a chocolate chip cookie. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like you think of a chocolatep cookie and you see

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Speaker 3: the image before you can hear the not because your

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Speaker 3: subconscious immediately spits out the imagery and oftentimes the emotion.

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Speaker 3: And so what happens is your conscious mind when we're

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Speaker 3: trying to rewire things. If we're just wiring things in

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Speaker 3: with affirmations like I am good enough, I am good enough,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't make it to your subconscious mind because it's

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Speaker 3: just language. And so we really need to be able

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Speaker 3: to leverage the emotions the imagery, and that's how we

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Speaker 3: actually imprint our subconscious mind, which is where the hosts

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Speaker 3: of all of our problems really Yeah, all of our

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Speaker 3: painful habits or beliefs.

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Speaker 1: So what I was gonna ask you is when we

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Speaker 1: quit the relationship too fast, Like if we keep getting

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Speaker 1: to the power struggle stage and we quit, we don't

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Speaker 1: get to actually feel what it would feel like to

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Speaker 1: be in that not conditional love place, or that infatuation place,

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Speaker 1: all the things that you're talking about. So, is that

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Speaker 1: one of the big inhibitors of us continuing on into

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Speaker 1: these six stages is that we have not felt it

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Speaker 1: in our body yet? And it's like we could talk

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Speaker 1: about it all day, but it doesn't matter until you

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Speaker 1: actually feel it. Does that make sense.

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Speaker 2: Question?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I think there's this. I think there's

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Speaker 2: two parts to it.

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Speaker 3: I think one part is for sure that unless we

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Speaker 3: feel it and we've ever been there, or unless we

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Speaker 3: had modeling for it in our own childhood that was

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Speaker 3: really clear.

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Speaker 1: Which most people probably didn't, would.

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Speaker 3: Be no, Yeah, exactly, most people do not, and it

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Speaker 3: does happen right like I think.

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Speaker 2: We've all seen.

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Speaker 3: I remember being a kid and seeing you, my my

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Speaker 3: dear friend growing up, and her parents were so happy,

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Speaker 3: and I remember thinking like, wow, they're so happy and

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Speaker 3: having you know, And I think growing up we have

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Speaker 3: models on the periphery if we don't have them directly,

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Speaker 3: but they're usually quite far and few between, because you

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Speaker 3: see a lot of people who are still together, but

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Speaker 3: they're not necessarily fulfilled and happy, naccid, And really, when

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Speaker 3: you make it to the everlasting stage properly, it is

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Speaker 3: both you're still together, but you're actually truly grateful and

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Speaker 3: happy and fulfilled by the relationship. So, for sure, if

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Speaker 3: we don't have any idea of what that looks like

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Speaker 3: or modeling for it, we can't feel it in our body,

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Speaker 3: we can't conceive of what it looks like. But also

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Speaker 3: I just think most people have no idea that that

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Speaker 3: even exists, like even just to know to then give

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Speaker 3: us some sort of reference point, you know, sometimes we

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Speaker 3: don't have conditioning for something, but we're like, Okay, at

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Speaker 3: least I know this is where I can I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to get to, so let me try to recondition my

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Speaker 3: own inner patterns to help me arrive there. At least

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Speaker 3: if we know something is there and the future, we

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Speaker 3: can move towards it. But so many people just don't

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Speaker 3: even know that there is a life cycle of relationship,

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Speaker 3: that there are six stages, and so when things are rocky,

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Speaker 3: they just assume like, oh gosh, this isn't it kind

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Speaker 3: of like, wait, I'm not necessarily learning the right lessons

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Speaker 3: and sort of passing these sort of tests or rites

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Speaker 3: of passage that will propel me into the future stages.

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Speaker 1: I think what's so tricky about relationship, especially just in

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Speaker 1: the way that our culture models them, is we're fed

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Speaker 1: all of these things, like even shows. I was watching

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Speaker 1: Love Is Blind last night, and I mean, I hate

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Speaker 1: that I get so hooked on shows like that because

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Speaker 1: they're absolutely ridiculous as well. You can't fall in love

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Speaker 1: with someone in a week, you know, but it's they

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Speaker 1: hook us in, and then I think our brains start

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Speaker 1: to equate the infatuation stage, the idea of this like

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Speaker 1: fairy tale relationship or wedding or marriage or whatever with love,

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Speaker 1: and then we get into an actual relationship and it's

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Speaker 1: actually so unrealistic to assume that you would just stay

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Speaker 1: there all the time because there's these six stages, right,

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Speaker 1: but we don't talk about the six stages. We only

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Speaker 1: think about the one. So I think this is really

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Speaker 1: really important to talk about because it doesn't necessarily mean

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Speaker 1: you're in a bad relationship if you get into the

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Speaker 1: power struggle stage. But I know I in the past

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Speaker 1: would have definitely thought that, you know, you hear like

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Speaker 1: people saying things like relationships are work and they're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be hard, so I think it can go both ways.

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Speaker 1: But like I would either stay in a relationship thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: relationships are supposed to be hard, so I need to

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Speaker 1: like struggle through this or it would get hard. And

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Speaker 1: you go, well, this isn't the fairy tale I thought

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Speaker 1: it would be. And so are you seeing that a

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Speaker 1: lot where people do not understand that there's all these

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Speaker 1: phases that relationships go through to get to the actual

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Speaker 1: love that we probably all want.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: And it's like, literally, why I'm trying to spread that

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Speaker 3: to support people because all the time, like I would say,

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Speaker 3: it's one of the biggest things that causes people to

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Speaker 3: and I love the way that you said that, because

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Speaker 3: it's exactly what people are feeling. It's like people think,

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Speaker 3: number one, it's this infatuation based love. It should always

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Speaker 3: be there, and the moment we're not there, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: it's a huge problem. And then we kind of compare

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Speaker 3: our expectation or fa and to see how it should

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Speaker 3: be according to a lot of the cultural conditioning we

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Speaker 3: get from shows like that or even just from like

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Speaker 3: romantic comedies growing up. Yeah, it's everywhere exactly, and so

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Speaker 3: we think, okay, it should be like this, and then

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Speaker 3: when it's not, where we get frustrated and even resentful,

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Speaker 3: and then we justify. That's honestly, like when people feel

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Speaker 3: like their needs are on me and then they justify,

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Speaker 3: you know, the and they feel resentful, that's when they

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Speaker 3: justify like acting against the relationship. And that's when it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: they don't care anyway. So it's fine if I kind

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Speaker 3: of flirt with my coworker. It's fine if I but

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Speaker 3: you won't see those behaviors at later stages like devotion

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Speaker 3: ever lasting, you won't really see them because in that

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Speaker 3: space people are sitting there going, well, I feel really connected.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to.

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Speaker 3: Threaten my relationship. I want to protect it all the time.

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Speaker 3: And so people for sure get caught there. And then

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Speaker 3: people in the power struggle go exactly like you said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: relationships are just supposed to be hard, and the power

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Speaker 3: struggle will be tricky at times. But for anybody listening,

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Speaker 3: if the relationship feels very, very very hard for too long,

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Speaker 3: it's actually a sign that, like, you know, we're not

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Speaker 3: learning exactly quite the lessons we need to progress because

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Speaker 3: it should be tricky. We'll have these, you know, we

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Speaker 3: have a period of time where we have to hash

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Speaker 3: things out, we have to move through things. And I

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Speaker 3: think it's important to note that even securely attach people,

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Speaker 3: like every person under the sun, goes through the six stages.

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Speaker 3: But what you'll see in people with really healthy modeling

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Speaker 3: for relationships is that they go dating honeymoon, they set

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Speaker 3: themselves properly up in the dating and honeymoon for the

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Speaker 3: power struggle and move through the rights of passage necessary

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Speaker 3: earlier on and by the time the power struggles there,

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Speaker 3: it's like three to six months of a little more

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Speaker 3: elevated conflict, a little more having to hash out different conversations.

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Speaker 3: But it's it's like a sort of small roadbump rather

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Speaker 3: than the cliff, and they'll end up being in a

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Speaker 3: position where they move through that, they navigate it, and

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Speaker 3: they keep moving into the preceding stages quite quickly. And

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Speaker 3: so people often too, to your point, they'll they'll say,

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Speaker 3: I just want to stay in the honeymoon stage forever.

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Speaker 3: And also we try to hold on to this infatuation

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Speaker 3: based love. It's like we still try to water the

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Speaker 3: plant superficially, and we're trying to nurture the things that

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Speaker 3: are still at the surface level, Like infatuation's beautiful, and

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Speaker 3: it won't it's not like you're gonna lose attraction by

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Speaker 3: the time you get to future stages and suddenly it's

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Speaker 3: just your friend that you love, not at all. But

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Speaker 3: if we try to root the entire tree in infatuation,

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Speaker 3: the moment like a windstorm comes along, it's just gonna

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Speaker 3: rip it out of the ground because the roots aren't

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Speaker 3: taking And so it's important to nurture the proceeding stages

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Speaker 3: to really deepen that connection.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting about power struggle because I think so

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Speaker 1: many of us are so conflict averse, right we just

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Speaker 1: are thinking, oh, like stay out of it, just stay

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Speaker 1: away from it. The older I've gotten, the more I've

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Speaker 1: understood that two people not having any conflict is not

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Speaker 1: also honest because you're just two people, right Like you

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Speaker 1: and I could sit here all day and talk and

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Speaker 1: talk and talk, but then like if you put us

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Speaker 1: in the same house, we would have different ways we

394
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Speaker 1: do things, and so it would you need to just

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Speaker 1: discuss and negotiate and compromise and all the things and

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Speaker 1: being in a healthy relationship. Now, I find that those

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Speaker 1: conversations sometimes, yeah, we can get a little spicy with

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Speaker 1: each other, but ultimately the goal is always to like

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Speaker 1: hear each other, compromise where we can and work together

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Speaker 1: to get to something that works for both people. And

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Speaker 1: that has changed the way I feel about this like

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Speaker 1: power struggle stage, because it just feels honest, and it

403
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Speaker 1: just feels like, hey, we're both communicating about what our

404
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Speaker 1: needs might be, and then you can move into this

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Speaker 1: deeper love. I've also been in the situations where there's

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Speaker 1: no way to even have healthy conflict or conversation to

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Speaker 1: get to these next stages. Do you see this happening

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Speaker 1: a lot?

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Speaker 3: So I love the way you share that because that's

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Speaker 3: exactly how the power struggle should feel in like a

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Speaker 3: healthy relationship. Is that because really what's happening, to your point,

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Speaker 3: is in the power struggle, it's emerging of two people's

413
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Speaker 3: inner worlds. Yeah, so we go from okay, where we're

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Speaker 3: we each have our own conditioning for a decade. It's

415
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Speaker 3: not like, you know, small amounts of conditioning. It's years

416
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Speaker 3: of conditioning of how we expect things to look and

417
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Speaker 3: what priorities we shouldn't have, and how how our needs

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Speaker 3: are going to be met, how we're going to communicate,

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Speaker 3: how you know, we're going to validate each other's feelings

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Speaker 3: or not.

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Speaker 2: And it's so funny.

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Speaker 3: It made me laugh when you first said when people

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Speaker 3: don't communicate at all or they say we never have

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Speaker 3: conflict truly, because you know, I worked in private practice

425
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Speaker 3: and had clients for years and years before getting into

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Speaker 3: our personal development school, and when clients would come in

427
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Speaker 3: on the first day and they would say, you know, oh,

428
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Speaker 3: you know, we don't really ever fight.

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Speaker 1: We're just we're just here to work through things.

430
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Speaker 3: We never really have arguments that would actually I'd be like,

431
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Speaker 3: oh gosh, these people are even these are going to

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Speaker 3: be the harder ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, these are going to be the trickier ones.

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00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 3: I actually had a much easier time helping people navigate

435
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 3: who are a little more explosive in their arguments. Not

436
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 3: that I'm saying it's great to be explosive in arguments,

437
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 3: but but I actually would see more progress faster from

438
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 3: people from that perspective than people who had just created

439
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 3: this distance by not talking about things. And you can

440
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 3: get stuck in this power struggle and there's a bitterness

441
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 3: and the you know, undertone of bitterness, undertone of resentment, distance,

442
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 3: this feeling of growing apart, and I think it's a

443
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 3: very insidious place to be in the power struggle. And

444
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 3: what we're really aiming for and truly the right of passage,

445
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,360
Speaker 3: and we can go through maybe the there's so many

446
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 3: rights of passage for each stage, but in the in

447
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,199
Speaker 3: the power struggle stage. Not to jump ahead, but one

448
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 3: of the biggest rights of passage is that you have

449
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,880
Speaker 3: to learn each other's in our worlds and help each

450
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 3: other feel seen and accepted in those inner worlds and

451
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 3: to your point, and I love the way you said it.

452
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 3: You know, the point of an argument or a disagreement

453
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 3: is not to have a winner and a loser or

454
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 3: somebody right. That's how we're going to stay second the

455
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,239
Speaker 3: power struggle stage forever. But ultimately, it's to hear each other.

456
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 3: You just said that so so eloquently. It's to hear

457
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 3: each other. It's to make each other feel seen, and

458
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 3: then to find this compromise of like, okay, so you

459
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 3: want to spend four nights a week together and I

460
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 3: want to spend two nights a week. Okay, land on three,

461
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 3: you know, and be able to share and communicate and

462
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 3: connect and make these compromises that are healthy that are not.

463
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 3: You know, sacrifice is not one person meeting the other

464
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 3: person all the way on their side, but both people

465
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 3: truly putting their cards out on the table and saying

466
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: this is truly what I'm feeling, this is truly what

467
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 3: I'm needing. And even if we disagree, you know, I'm

468
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 3: going to validate your your feelings and your needs and

469
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 3: then share mine, and we're gonna have the sense of

470
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 3: openness to each other, and we're gonna have the sense

471
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: of like, let's let's find a middle ground, and when

472
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 3: we're able to do that as human beings with one another,

473
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 3: that's how we navigate through these hard situations. And that,

474
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: of course, this is especially important in romantic relationships. And

475
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 3: so from this perspective, those are two of the rights

476
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: of passage. It's learning how to do conflict properly, learning

477
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 3: to share your feelings and your inner world, learning to

478
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 3: communicate your needs. And then another really important right of

479
00:21:51,240 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 3: passages is learning to be vulnerable. I'll share a story

480
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 3: quickly if it's okay. I had a client years ago,

481
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 3: and she was lovely. She was like just everything you

482
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 3: could put on paper for like the perfect person. She was.

483
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 3: She had the perfect job, she had the perfect you

484
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 3: know set up and home, and she was so well

485
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: put together and she was so just you know, kind

486
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 3: and thoughtful and sweet and you know, had everything together.

487
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 2: And I remember when we first started working together.

488
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 3: Her challenge was, she was like, I never really can

489
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 3: find a lasting relationship and I want to have kids,

490
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: and I'm worried that I'm running out of time and

491
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is about me, but I just,

492
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, I keep either choosing the wrong people, or

493
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 3: I keep getting stuck in this particular dynamic. And when

494
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: we dug into it very quickly, like in the first

495
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 3: couple of sessions of getting to Know where, I recognize

496
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: that she grew up with a father who was a narcissist,

497
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: and she was terrified of being vulnerable and thought she

498
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 3: always had to be perfect. And so when I asked

499
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,959
Speaker 3: her about, well, what's happening when you know relationships are ending,

500
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 3: the common theme was that people would leave her. And

501
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 3: they would say it in different ways, but they would

502
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: say like, I don't feel like I really know who

503
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 3: you are. And she had these walls up through trying

504
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 3: to be perfect all the time and present this sort

505
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: of image, and she was so busy trying to keep

506
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 3: the relationship in that the infatuation based stages, in that

507
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 3: honeymoon stage, that she was always on her best behavior.

508
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: She would never share her feelings, she would never share

509
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 3: her needs, and so people felt like they couldn't connect

510
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 3: more deeply. And ultimately, once the infatuation had sort of

511
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 3: quelled a little bit in the relationship, because that's normal

512
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 3: for every relationship, and they entered into the power struggle stage,

513
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: there would just be this distance and people would feel like,

514
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on, And when we dug

515
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 3: into it, she realized, like, I'm never ever sharing my

516
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 3: inner world with people, like I'm never sharing what I

517
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 3: actually feel her need. And so she ended up having

518
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 3: to do that and practice that, and it was hard

519
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: and scary for her, but ultimately the next relationship she

520
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: was in because she was able to do that, they

521
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 3: made it out into the power struggle stage and really

522
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: had this beautiful connection and kept progressing. So for that right,

523
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: you're seeing a dynamic where vulnerability is key because if

524
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: we're always pretending, where we're always not showing our true selves,

525
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 3: there's this an authenticity and that also actually inhibits connection.

526
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: I know so much of your work is around attachment styles,

527
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: but how does that play into the stages of relationship

528
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: that we kind of get stuck in the First.

529
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 3: One is if you look at the dating stage, so

530
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 3: there's sort of writes a passage or like these lessons

531
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: in each stage, and you'll see each attachment style approach

532
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: it differently. So in the dating stage of relationships, what

533
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 3: we'll see as a general rule is that anxiously attach

534
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: individuals they undervet in relationships. So the entire intention of

535
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: the dating stage is to pick the right partner. And

536
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 3: I often give the analogy that people go into this

537
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 3: dating stage and they who are anxiously attached. It's almost like,

538
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 3: if you can imagine as an analogy, somebody is like, oh,

539
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 3: I want to get a new job, and they go

540
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 3: and they just apply to the first twenty jobs on indeed,

541
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: and one's an engineer, and one's a welder, and one's

542
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: you know, a gardener or you know. It's like, okay,

543
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: there's all these jobs, and then you're just gonna throw

544
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 3: your fuelers out there, fun one that you're kind of

545
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: feeling okay about and go into it. Well, you just

546
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: have less of a likelihood of success tracking on that path,

547
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: Like if you're just applying, you're just gonna have a

548
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 3: harder time. Yeah, And so many anxiously attached individuals they

549
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 3: get into dating, and the dating stage should typically last

550
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: about zero to six months. And in this stage, they

551
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: get into dating and they go, oh, I'm attracted to

552
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: this person.

553
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: I like them. There's a spark, and.

554
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: They feel that on date one or two, and then

555
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: they turn the dating stage into Okay, how do I

556
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 3: win this person over and there's a really profound self

557
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 3: abandonment in there. And every anxiously attached person I've ever

558
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 3: spoken to says says things to me like, oh, well,

559
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: you know, I just thought that once they fell in love,

560
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 3: or once we progress things, they would change their mind

561
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 3: about things like marriage or kids, or you know, I

562
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 3: just thought that things would get easier when we connected

563
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: more deeply. And so instead of actually trying to choose

564
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 3: with intention, instead of going and prepared. And how we

565
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 3: do the dating stage correctly is we should know our needs,

566
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: we should know our standards and what we're willing to accept,

567
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 3: and we should absolutely know our non negotiables. That I

568
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: always tell people, Hey, when we're trying to date intentionally,

569
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 3: you start your dating experience, you first should be looking

570
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 3: in the right places because it's going to increase your

571
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: chances of finding what you're looking for. So, if you're

572
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: looking for somebody emotionally available who's working on themselves, you

573
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: probably want to be going to like personal growth meetups

574
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: or things in your area rather than the nightclub you know,

575
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: every weekend. And not that the nightclub will never have

576
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: emotionally available people, but you're just you're less likely to

577
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: find those people in those places, right, just statistically, and

578
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 3: so you know you should be looking with intention. And

579
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: once you find somebody that you're interested in, your first date, yes,

580
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 3: should be about just going in and just having an

581
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 3: open mind and seeing if there's a spark, seeing if

582
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: there's chemistry. But after the first date, because you go

583
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: in equipped to dating knowing your needs, you're not negotiable

584
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 3: your standards. You should be asking one really meaningful question

585
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: per date, and you should be sharing one meaningful thing

586
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 3: about yourself per date and seeing how somebody responds. And

587
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 3: this is how we'vet so for example, if you're somebody

588
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 3: who needs consistency.

589
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: You know you should be sharing that early on.

590
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: Consistency is really important to me, and then you can see, hey,

591
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 3: this person now knows this about me.

592
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: Do they try to offer that to me?

593
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 3: Right, So we're seeing how the person shows up based

594
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 3: on us sharing our needs early. We're not sitting there

595
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: telling somebody, hello, it's date two. I now expect you

596
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 3: to be consistent and text me every single day. We're not,

597
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 3: you know, being really intense about it, but we're just

598
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: dropping in our needs from time to time, letting somebody know.

599
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: One meaningful thing that we care about, that we value,

600
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 3: that we're looking for, and that gives somebody, you know,

601
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 3: this broad map of how to navigate a relationship with us.

602
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 3: By the same token, you should be asking something about

603
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 3: your non negotiable. So, for example, if I were to

604
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: you know, I've been with my husband for ten years,

605
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: but if I were ever to be in a dating situation,

606
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: right I would you know, for me, a non negotiable

607
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 3: would be the ability to move through conflict, like to

608
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 3: hash things out in a respect actual way, because that's

609
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: just so life changing, it's so important to me. And

610
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 3: so you know, I might on date too, bring up

611
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: you know, an hour or so into the date. Maybe

612
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 3: one of my questions would be, hey, how do you

613
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: tend to navigate conflict? You know, what do you do

614
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: when you have a hard time with people in your life?

615
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: Like how do you approach it? And just you know,

616
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: to ask that, because if somebody says, oh, I don't

617
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: have conflict or oh you know, I I don't. I

618
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: don't like to talk about things. It's not my way

619
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 3: of doing things, I might say, oh, would that be

620
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: something you're like open to trying to do? And if

621
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: they're like no, I wouldn't go on another date. I

622
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 3: wouldn't be wasting my own time. And so you know,

623
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: we have to go in knowing our non negotiables and

624
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 3: being able to ask for those things and get to

625
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: the bottom of some of some of those things before we,

626
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: you know, fall in love with somebody before the connection

627
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: really blinds us because this is how we're dating with

628
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: intentions so anxious to.

629
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: Tasticize something about what you just said. Though you said

630
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: before we fall in love with someone, I don't know

631
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: that you can actually fall in love with people truly

632
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: if you're operating from where you just discussed, Like if

633
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: you're moving into day and you're just going, Okay, I'm

634
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: gonna just date, and then this is I mean, not

635
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: to go back to love's mind, but this is what's

636
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: so fascinating to me about that show. It's like such

637
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: an interesting case study in people's brains because I'll watch

638
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: certain parts, like it's always one side of the relationship,

639
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: so I'm assuming it's like an anxious and avoid and

640
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: get together, and the anxious person is all like all

641
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: in on the relationship, and it's like, but do you

642
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: even like that person? Do you even align with that person,

643
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: there's all these things missing, but they're so focused on

644
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: just being in the relationship to get to the goal

645
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: of marriage that they miss all the things that the

646
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: person is actually saying about themselves, you know that doesn't

647
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: align with them and they're saying I love you, I

648
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: love you, I love you. I'm like, no, you don't, No,

649
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: you don't. So there's that. But then the other piece

650
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: is when you gave the example of the job, like

651
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: throwing all the things up again, you know, like on

652
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: LinkedIn to get all these different jobs, you're asking someone

653
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: else to tell you who you are, like by doing

654
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: like applying for a plumber, electrician, like all these things.

655
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: You're like, well, what do you think I should do?

656
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: And so it's the not knowing yourself And this is

657
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: obviously spot that you got it, like from from my

658
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: past experiences, but the not knowing yourself. If you don't

659
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: know who you are and you're going into dating, dating

660
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: all these different people, just like whatever, how could you

661
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: have a real relationship that's going to be able to

662
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: move through these six stages because you don't even know

663
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: You're not negotiables your needs or whatever. You're waiting for

664
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: someone else to tell you. I love that.

665
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: I love how you said you you want your waiting

666
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: for people to tell you who you are. I think

667
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: that's exactly the the It encompasses the anxious attachment style

668
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 3: in the dating experience one hundred percent.

669
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: And you know what I find.

670
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 3: And I try to sort of use the terms like

671
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: infatuation based love versus deeper love. People can get into

672
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: like this infatuation based love. But to your point, I

673
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 3: don't think it's like real meaningful love because you have

674
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: to fall in love with a person, not the fantasy.

675
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 3: And and to some degree, if you only know somebody,

676
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 3: like I think on love is blind. I read somewhere

677
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: one time that they have like ten days or something.

678
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: It's actually it's like, how are we pumping this into

679
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: our culture? I don't know. I'm sitting here as an

680
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: active participant, and the problem because I can't stop watching,

681
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: so I don't know.

682
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 3: But for sure, there's this part of it where you

683
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 3: fall in love with a fantasy, you fill in the

684
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 3: blanks and you know. And I think that that can

685
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: be an exciting and beautiful experience for people. But I

686
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: will also say, to be perfectly honest, securely attached people

687
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: don't really do that they're mindful and they're a little

688
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: slower moving. But I find that we infatuator fall into

689
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: limerens much more when we have a lot of unhealed parts,

690
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: because when we're in a place where we're you know,

691
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 3: so much of this deeply infractuing based infatuation based love

692
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: where people just fallen so quickly, is that A lot

693
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: of it's based on like your childhood. So if you

694
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: had really deeply unmet needs in your childhood, like maybe

695
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: somebody made you feel really unseen your whole childhood, you

696
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: didn't feel like your parents were present with you, and

697
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: maybe you end up in the love is Blind pod

698
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: and somebody makes you feel really seen. They're not physically

699
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 3: seeing you, but they see your character and your personality

700
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 3: because you're in this environment that's conducive to that. First

701
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: of all, you don't know if that person's gonna be

702
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 3: the same way out of that environment, when like there's

703
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: all the distractions of the outer world. But secondly, secondly,

704
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: there's this point of it where it's like, well that

705
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 3: person might make you feel seen, and that's really powerful,

706
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: and your brain's going to light up like fireworks if

707
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 3: it's been in a deeply unmet need your whole life.

708
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: But love is a lot more than just that, and

709
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: one need or a couple needs being really met. Well,

710
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: how does this person navigate conflict? How does this person

711
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: show up through hard times?

712
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: Who? What is the character of this person? Do your

713
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: morals and values?

714
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: You know, they're just so motal age. Yeah, oh yeah,

715
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 3: I very much agree with with your point there. Yeah,

716
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: and so you'll see, like that's sort of the anxious

717
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: dynamic and then dismiss the avoidance. They tend to unless

718
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: they fall in deliverance, which they can, but less less likely.

719
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: They tend to move through the dating stage through over vetting,

720
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: so through flaw finding. Oh and they sort of yeah,

721
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: so they'll move into it going oh, well, what are

722
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: all the things that could go wrong?

723
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: And where are all the things that all the reasons

724
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: it could not work? And they do this dismissible.

725
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: Waiting's flaw find is a strategy to self soothe, because

726
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: when they feel too vulnerable and too open, their way

727
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 3: of self soothing in relationships is to minimize their attachment needs.

728
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: So what they do is they go, oh, okay, so

729
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not sure this. I see a red

730
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: flag and Honestly, a lot of times dismissive winds make

731
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: really small red flags into really big ones, like, oh,

732
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: this person left their space a little bit messy after

733
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: you know what, I was at their house, like, oh

734
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 3: my gosh, they're never going to be tidy and I

735
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: care and oh my gosh, it's never gonna work. And

736
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: you're like, wait, could you just talk about it? Could

737
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 3: you just address it? I have a conversation, And they

738
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: often don't go to have those conversations or work those

739
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 3: things out. They just make assumptions, project them into the future,

740
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: and then pull away accordingly. So you sort of get

741
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 3: these polarities and how the attachment cells deal with these stages.

742
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: And that's why the day stage generally last zero to

743
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: six months, because people who are more avoidant trend towards

744
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: the six month mark before making a commitment, and people

745
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: who are more anxious trend towards trying to date it

746
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 3: a lot earlier, depending on who their partner is and

747
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 3: commit And what actually moves you from the dating stage

748
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 3: into the honeymoon stage is the right of passage that

749
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 3: unlocks the next stage is literally making a commitment, having

750
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 3: an open conversation, deciding Okay, we're going to focus on

751
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: each other.

752
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: It's just going to be us.

753
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: And when you get into that space of making that

754
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: commitment or taking the relationship to the next level, that's

755
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: the honeymoon stage. But if we didn't do it properly,

756
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 3: if we you know, we we picked whatever the job

757
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: was on indeed, and we didn't like that and we

758
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: didn't have the conversations, then when things get a little

759
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: harder later on in the power struggle, once you leave

760
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 3: the honeymoon, that's where like conflict gets so much harder

761
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 3: to solve for there could be actual, real incompatibilities that

762
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: you're not willing to bridge the gaps on. And that's

763
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: where if we didn't let people know who we were

764
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: in the dating stage and we didn't ask the right questions,

765
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: we're going to find out the hard way in the

766
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 3: power struggle stage. And then people are a little a

767
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 3: little bit less forgiving in the power struggle stage, they're

768
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 3: you know, the emotions are higher, they're a little bit

769
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: more frustrated, and so it tends to be something that

770
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: if we didn't figure out, for example, that you know,

771
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: we want to we're not ready to commit for ten

772
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 3: years or have kids for a long time, and the

773
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 3: anxious person says, okay, well you're going to change your

774
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: mind in two years, and we fall in love. In

775
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: the power struggle stage, we get more comfortable, and the

776
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: anxious then maybe says, hey, I don't want to wait

777
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 3: ten years. Let's you know, start sooner to commit. Well,

778
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 3: that's when the dismissive avoidance might say something like we

779
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: talked about this, like why would you expect me to change?

780
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: And then we see these things that are going to

781
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 3: create more ruptures in the relationship in a bigger way.

782
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: So the power struggle stage doesn't necessarily have to be terrible,

783
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: I mean, because to me, it's like it can be

784
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: workable because if you if you respect the person, like

785
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: you said, you value the relationship. You want to meet

786
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: each other's needs, so you're like, we'll work together, it

787
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: could be kind of a workable situation. If you did

788
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: not do your vetting properly, it might feel like the

789
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: rug being ripped out from under you, feeling where you're like, wait,

790
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: who were you wait? You said what like that kind

791
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: of thing, even though maybe they even said it, did

792
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: you listen? Did you accept it? Like all of those

793
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: kind of things.

794
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. So this is a stage where there's

795
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 3: like the biggest gap in how it's approached. So okay,

796
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 3: people who are securely attached and did their vetting and

797
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 3: had the conversations earlier on, and people who know how

798
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 3: to fight right and have healthy conflict. What you'll see

799
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: is that the power struggle station can be like a

800
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 3: three to six month process. It's like you're ironing out

801
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: the merging of your inner worlds and it can be difficult,

802
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: but it's almost bonding. And I'm sure you've had this experience,

803
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: and for listeners, they hopefully have had this experience too.

804
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 3: But you know, if you're actually in the power struggle stage,

805
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 3: you should leave conflicts feeling.

806
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: Closer, especially if you can make repair well, like if

807
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: you're in a couple where you can do that. To me,

808
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: it's always bonding. It does bring you closer, you understand

809
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: the other person better, that you feel more understood, like

810
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: it can be a good thing, absolutely, And so that's

811
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: like how the power struggle stage should go in a

812
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: perfect world, is that yes, there's this disagreement or friction,

813
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: but then you realize, hey, there's distance or there's friction

814
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: or frustration let's hash it out. You sit down, you're

815
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: present with each other, and really, if there's a sort

816
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: of high level sort of process to move through conflict,

817
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: as we both share what we're feeling, we validate each

818
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: other's emotions because people think they're arguing about being right

819
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: and wrong, but they actually just want their emotions seen

820
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: and heard by the person they love. And so when

821
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I see that this would be hurtful

822
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: for you. I get that.

823
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 3: And this is hurtful for me too because ABC. And

824
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 3: when we hear each other out and validate each other's

825
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 3: perspectives and feelings around it, and then we talk about, okay,

826
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: well what do you need to feel better? What do

827
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 3: we need to come back to center here? And both

828
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: people share their needs and then try to figure out

829
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 3: a strategy to get their needs met. Then you'll actually

830
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: feel like, oh, we had this invisible wall between us

831
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: where we didn't understand each other. Now we actually see

832
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 3: and hear each other around it. We get it, and

833
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: now we've made a process to get closer based on

834
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 3: each other needs. So now both people feel loved for

835
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 3: who they are, connected to their inner world with the

836
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: person that they're in the relationship with and they feel

837
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 3: seen and heard and understood, and so we're actually like

838
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: merging more with this person in a deeper way, and

839
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 3: that's how conflict should go in the power struggle stage.

840
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: And what you should see is generally there's three to

841
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 3: six months of ironing out some of these kings, because

842
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: it does take time to like actually merge all of

843
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: your conditioning and your inner world with another person. And

844
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 3: once that happens, you should see that that becomes your

845
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: natural baseline.

846
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: So your new set point.

847
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, we just naturally know to do these

848
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: things for one another because we've talked about it enough

849
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: and we've practiced them, and now they're a new normal

850
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: in our relationship. And that's actually where we exit the

851
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 3: power struggle stage. So that's sort of the secure approach,

852
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 3: and that's the healthy approach, and that's when we know

853
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 3: we're doing it right. But people on the other side

854
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 3: of the continuum or the spectrum here is like people

855
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 3: can be in a marriage and they'll spend their whole

856
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: marriage and the power struggle stage live and die there.

857
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: And this is where you see, you know, people who

858
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: they're living together, but they sleep in separate rooms or

859
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: they're living together, but they're always bitter and resentful and

860
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 3: there's this emotional distance, and you know, I would make

861
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 3: a really strong argument that you know, if you're staying

862
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: in a relationship for your whole life, I wouldn't necessarily

863
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 3: call that success if you're not happy, Like I think

864
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 3: true success of a relationship should be measured by two things.

865
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: A the longevity, of course, but be more importantly, are

866
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: you fulfilled? Do you feel connected? Do you feel like

867
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 3: there's this love alive in the relationship, Because if you're

868
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 3: just staying for comfort and stability and there's this bitterness

869
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 3: and resentment, then that's a really painful thing to be

870
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: spending time living in.

871
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: So you said when we exit the power struggle, but

872
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,959
Speaker 1: I was just thinking it can't just be one time.

873
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: Like to me, relationships evolve and you would hope that

874
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: you find a partner that you can evolve with, and

875
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: like life is just going to happen, and so it's

876
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: like as life happens and ebbs and flows, you might

877
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: go through some of these stages. Again, I would assume

878
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: is that right? Or it's like, like, is there just

879
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: this one time thing where we go through all these stages?

880
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: And then poof, we're in the enlightened place and operate

881
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: together well or is it kind of through the stage

882
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: or the life of a relationship. You might enter into

883
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: some of these stages again, but you know how to

884
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: navigate them better.

885
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: So I guess there's three things here. So first thing

886
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 3: is you want to differentiate between a hard time and

887
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 3: a conflict versus being locked in the power struggle stage. Okay,

888
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 3: So if you did the power struggle stage really well,

889
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 3: you mapped out so much of your inner conflict and

890
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: you know how to have conflicts really well, to the

891
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: point where you'll you know, so like, obviously, I've been

892
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 3: in my marriage and with my husband for ten years,

893
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 3: and if we have a hard thing that's going to come,

894
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 3: we've had so many hashing outs of things that I

895
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 3: just have full faith and trust that like, oh, whatever

896
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 3: heart thing comes will just carry out, even if it's

897
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: really hard, we'll hash it out, because I've seen us

898
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 3: do that so many times. Right, So it doesn't mean

899
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 3: that you won't have conflict. It's not like this enlightened

900
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: place where you never have a hard thing or have

901
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 3: a conflict. It's just that there's so much faith it's

902
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 3: almost like, once you really learn to ride a bicycle,

903
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: you're not going to wake up and forget one day. Okay,

904
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, you might take a harder trail

905
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,439
Speaker 3: one time, you know, on the bicycle, but you're you're going.

906
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: To know how to ride the bicycle.

907
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: So you'll still get through it, right, And so we

908
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: can still have conflict for sure, and challenges, but it

909
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 3: won't necessarily relegate us right back into the whole power

910
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: struggle stage where we're like starting fresh. So we will

911
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: usually really move out of those stages. However, if we

912
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: go through something difficult enough, so there's two other things here.

913
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 3: If it's difficult enough then where it actually creates an

914
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: identity crisis. Identity crises where we lose who we are,

915
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 3: all of our needs seem to profoundly change. We don't

916
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: know how to really process or regulate ourselves at all.

917
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 3: We go through something really painful or difficult, then you're

918
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: kind of starting fresh, because if your needs change so dramatically,

919
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 3: everything about you change is so dramatically, then you do

920
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 3: kind of have to move back through the power struggle

921
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: stage again. So for example, for that one, I remember

922
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 3: having a client and this poor individual they lost both

923
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: their parents in one year. And they had moved out

924
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 3: to the power struggle stage by a couple of years

925
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: in their marriage. But they lost both of their parents.

926
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 3: It kind of fell into the steep depression. It sort

927
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: of triggered off this almost like midlife crisis where they

928
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 3: were like what am I doing with my life? I

929
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: want to change jobs, you know, And then they sort

930
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: of got relegated back into the power strugle stage with

931
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 3: their partner because their needs changed so profound. The personalities shifted,

932
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 3: and so they had to relearn each other through that phase.

933
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 3: And that's really what the power struggle stage is actually about.

934
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 3: It's about learning each other at a deep way to

935
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 3: learn how to navigate things. So you can, in certain

936
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 3: conditions be relegated back.

937
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 2: And then you have to move through it.

938
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: But also we can go back if we don't learn

939
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: how to navigate the proceeding stages either, so we can

940
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: still get stuck on later stages. So the rhythm stage

941
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: right after the power struggle stage, we have to learn

942
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: to keep the spark alive. That's actually like the right

943
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 3: of passage in that stage. And we can kind of

944
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 3: come back and talk about that. But if we don't

945
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: have good habits or tools for that. Then we'll feel

946
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: this sort of staleness after the power struggle stage. And

947
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 3: then people will often go back into trying to fight

948
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 3: or pick fights on a regular basis as a means

949
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: of trying to sort of feel the spark or their connect.

950
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: Because they didn't more exciting.

951
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so that can be something that moves us

952
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 3: backwards when we're trying to leave that stage as well.

953
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 3: So those are sort of the three frames.

954
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: That it fits into.

955
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: If that makes sense, That makes total sense. So the

956
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: rhythm stage, that makes sense to me too, that people

957
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: often might leave during that stage because you just get stagnant.

958
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: And I know that there's I've learned this in my journey,

959
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: and I think you've talked about this too, But if

960
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: you've grown up in a play, a house that's chaotic

961
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: or whatever, normal you know, normalcy and security and all

962
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: of those things can feel boring almost and so maybe

963
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: if you're a person that identifies with those stories, getting

964
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: to the rhythm stage could feel kind of like bland,

965
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: so truly, And that's.

966
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: Usually who actually gets stuck there at the house is

967
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 3: people who grow up in chaos because their nervous system

968
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 3: is like, yeah, familiar with chaos.

969
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: It's your comfort zone. And so you're like, wait, where's

970
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: the chaos?

971
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 3: And then we sort of feel this restlessness in that stage,

972
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: and so what the goal is of that stage, because

973
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 3: you'll see people sort of settle in differently. So you'll see,

974
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: for example, like dismissive avoidans love the rhythm stage. They

975
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 3: love the comfort and stability because they're comfort and stability seekers.

976
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: Anxious attachment cells usually feel the security of the commitment

977
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: and the certainty. So even they tend to navigate it

978
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 3: quite well, it's usually more than anybody or fearful avoidance.

979
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 3: Anxious can struggle a little bit, but fearful avoidant attachment

980
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 3: cells who they're like, wait.

981
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 2: Where's the roller coaster? Where are they ups and downs?

982
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: I'm not used to this.

983
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 3: And so it breeds two important questions, one being well,

984
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 3: what in you needs healing to be comfortable and comfort

985
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: and safe and safety rather than feeling so restless and

986
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 3: almost untrusting of comfort and safety. And a lot of

987
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 3: times that's actually a call for nervous system regulation work

988
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 3: and somatic processing and get your body comfortable to feel safe,

989
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: because what's actually sponsoring it at The route for people

990
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 3: who might being but more likely fearful avoided is if

991
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: they are uncomfortable in comfort. It's that they're like, no, no, no,

992
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: I need to be on high alert because I'm waiting

993
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 3: for the other shoe to drop right. And so there's

994
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 3: this like deep core wound if I am unsafe and

995
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: I can't trust, whether it's the person or even just

996
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 3: the world the future, right, And so actually rewiring those

997
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 3: core wounds is such a profound part of healing, and

998
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 3: then in turn your nervous system, and then practicing nervous

999
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 3: system regulation at the same time helps you feel safe

1000
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: in your body, feel connected, comfortable in that space, but

1001
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: also you don't have these subconsciously stored beliefs that are

1002
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 3: driving this idea of like, wait, but I can't trust

1003
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: what if I do? You know, settle in here and

1004
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: then something bad happens, you know, so being able to

1005
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 3: come out of being on high alert. So there's very

1006
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: much an individual lesson in each of these stages. There's

1007
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 3: actually an individual healing lesson for people who find themselves

1008
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 3: stuck there as well. Doesn't always go back to that though, yeah,

1009
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: exactly life, I feel one percent, and then the secondary

1010
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 3: part in the relationship is that we don't just do

1011
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: the individual healing, but also in the relationship you have

1012
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: to find you know, often the people who also are restless,

1013
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 3: they still have a need for novelty, they still have

1014
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: a need for passion, for a spark, for chemistry, and

1015
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: those are not unhealthy needs. But if we try to

1016
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: get them met by looking outside of the relationship because

1017
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 3: we feel restless, then it became really unhealthy. But if

1018
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 3: we instead say, Okay, well, I'm somebody who likes the

1019
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 3: spice of life a little bit more. Let me like

1020
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: do fun things with my partner more. Let's try to

1021
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 3: go to new places, Let's do new things together. Let's

1022
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 3: take on new hobbies. Let's figure out what helps us

1023
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: feel really connected and excited in the relationship. Let's have

1024
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 3: a weekly date night no matter what, Let's do things

1025
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 3: that keep the romance and the spark alive, and we

1026
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: really feed that into the relationship. Then you're nourishing that

1027
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: in that rhythm stage, and then that allows you to

1028
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 3: feel safe. If you've done that inner work to settle in,

1029
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: that restlessness sort of dissolves, and then by also you know,

1030
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 3: caring and nurturing that novelty and the things that drive

1031
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: excitement in the relationship. You also get to really keep

1032
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: that spark. And honestly, it's especially important for fearful avoidance

1033
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 3: and anxiously attach individuals, but it's important for everybody.

1034
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: If you're in the.

1035
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: Rhythm stage, it's still important to have things that are

1036
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: rituals for connection, rituals where you're feeding. You know, we

1037
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: have four pillars in connection. We have an intellectual pillar

1038
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 3: of connection, which our thoughts, opinions, philosophy's ideas. We have

1039
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 3: a romantic pillar of connection. We have an emotional pillar,

1040
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: and we have a physical or sexual pillar. And we

1041
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 3: want to be able to nurture all of those pillars properly.

1042
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 3: And that's again part of the right of passage in

1043
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: the rhythm stage is like, let's find a rhythm and

1044
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 3: let's infuse the relationship with habits that are going to

1045
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 3: keep this connection fed on a regular basis in all

1046
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 3: the ways that we each need. And in doing that,

1047
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 3: that then propels people into the next stage, being the

1048
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 3: devotion stage.

1049
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: What's devotion?

1050
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 3: So devotion is about making those long term commitments and

1051
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: you know, if you do, the stage is right. And

1052
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: I know so many people usually get and it's totally okay,

1053
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: there's no it's not like you have to do it

1054
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 3: in a certain way. But so many people usually will

1055
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 3: get married like in the honeymoon stage, right, and then

1056
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: they'll be you know, they're married, they're just about two

1057
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 3: years in and then they enter into the power struggle stage.

1058
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 3: And the amount of people who have said to me, like,

1059
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, like after I married my wife, she

1060
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: totally changed her.

1061
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 2: Oh my god, after I married my husband, he turned

1062
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: into a monster.

1063
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 3: And they think that they like got tricks or something,

1064
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: and know it's just that they hadn't seen each other

1065
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 3: in the power struggle yet. But ideally, in the perfect world, right,

1066
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 3: you have two securely attached people. They date for three

1067
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 3: or four months, they make a commitment. They're in the

1068
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 3: honeymoon for another year, year and a half. They moved

1069
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 3: through the power struggle stage in three to six months,

1070
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: the stabilities another three months, and now they're around like

1071
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 3: two and a half or three years into the relationship

1072
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 3: and now they're making a commitment and this is the

1073
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: devotion stage. And you know, that would be the ideal

1074
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: sort of roadmap that we don't really make a long

1075
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: term commitment until we've really navigated all the other stages,

1076
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 3: because now we're much more likely to have sort of

1077
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 3: guaranteed that we've truly chosen. If you get married much earlier,

1078
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 3: it's totally okay. You still just navigate the natural life

1079
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 3: cycle and still move through the stages. But what we'll

1080
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 3: see in the devotion stage is that because you have

1081
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 3: these infused habits in your relationship where you feel deeply connected,

1082
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: you're nurturing the relationship in the right way or keeping

1083
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: the chemistry and spark alive based on what you need.

1084
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 3: You know each other's needs, you learn to navigate the

1085
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 3: power struggle, you've learned to really share your inner worlds

1086
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 3: and fuse them together. Well, now in the devotion stage,

1087
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 3: we deeply know each other, We really love in this space,

1088
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: and there's this mutual devotion, there's this mutual commitment, and

1089
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 3: this is the place that we want to start planning

1090
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 3: for the future. How do we want to raise a family,

1091
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: how do we want to move into the next season

1092
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 3: or stage of life?

1093
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 2: What does that look like?

1094
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 3: And even if you're already married from way earlier, it

1095
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 3: can be like, well, what do we want next for

1096
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 3: the next chapter? For the next five years, the next

1097
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: ten years, maybe we start a business together, maybe we

1098
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 3: invest in new hobbies together, or a charity, but you

1099
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 3: actually start devoting to talking about those longer term plans.

1100
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 3: And something that's so interest to me is how often

1101
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: people try to sort of jump ahead into the devotion

1102
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: stage and their behaviors when they're not actually in the

1103
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 3: devotion stage. So we have people all the time, We

1104
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: have people all the time who will be pushing for

1105
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: the devotion stage when they're in the commitments or when

1106
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 3: they're in excuse me, the power struggle stage, and so

1107
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 3: they'll be like, Okay, let's plan for it, let's do this,

1108
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 3: let's do this, and this is how we'll raise gets.

1109
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean that it's negative to talk about

1110
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 3: those things at all. It just means that you when

1111
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,279
Speaker 3: we're in the devotion stage, both parties will really be there.

1112
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: Because sometimes we'll have, especially when you sort of rope

1113
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 3: attachment styles into it, sometimes we'll have somebody a little

1114
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,760
Speaker 3: more anxious, with a little more avoidant. And if somebody's

1115
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 3: a little more anxious, they'll be trying to talk about

1116
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 3: those things and plan for those things in the power

1117
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: struggle and sometimes they'll think that because they're more avoidant,

1118
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: partner isn't in there so excited talking about it, hashing

1119
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: it out, initiating those plans, to initiating conversations about these things.

1120
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 3: They'll think, Oh, then they may not be devoted to me,

1121
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 3: they may not care. But actually, deep down, for a

1122
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 3: lot of those individuals, what's actually happening is the more

1123
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 3: avoidant people are just they're quite acutely aware that they're

1124
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 3: still a little bit in the power struggle stage, and

1125
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 3: they actually are trying to more subconsciously. Like the way

1126
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: it would come out when I would talk to people

1127
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 3: about this is more avoidant people would say, I want

1128
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 3: those things with this person. I think this person is

1129
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 3: my person. I love them, but I just think there's

1130
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 3: things to work through first. And it's almost like they

1131
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: have this awareness that they're still a little bit to

1132
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 3: map out through the power struggle, and once they find

1133
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 3: their rhythm, then they catch their breath, and then they're

1134
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 3: more excited to then be devoted to the future and

1135
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 3: talk about those things with such an open heart and

1136
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 3: really map those things out. And so I think sometimes

1137
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: people will take it a little bit to heart, like, wait,

1138
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: you're not in this space yet, but sometimes it's because

1139
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 3: they're actually both not quite in that space even though

1140
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 3: they're moving in that direction.

1141
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: Really well, I think that's so interesting about attachment styles

1142
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: because you see it. I see it happen all the time.

1143
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: But it's like, the anxious person needs the relationship to progress,

1144
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: to feel safe enough to work through all this stuff.

1145
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: The avoidant person it feels like, no, we need to

1146
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: work through all this stuff. Then progress, and then you

1147
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: see the like the anxious person's feeling not chosen, the

1148
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: avoidant person's feeling anxious because they're being pressured. Like just

1149
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: all of those dynamics are so fascinating, but I see

1150
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: them happening all the time, And the way out of it.

1151
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 3: Is that anxious people to feel chosen instead of it

1152
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 3: being that were suddenly like truly anxious people will think

1153
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 3: that they need to like have the marriage and they

1154
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 3: had their wedding today and feel chosen and safe, and

1155
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 3: they're kind of pushing for this outcome. But actually it's

1156
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: just about needs. So once the anxiously attached individual has

1157
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 3: the need met for certainty and reassurance enough in the relationship,

1158
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: they feel reassured. Regularly, they feel like they're the person's committing,

1159
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: you know, their time to be present with them. So

1160
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: really presence reassurance and then certainty, so the certainty that like, hey,

1161
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 3: we have plans this weekend, Hey, I love you, Hey

1162
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: I care about you. You know, even just plans for

1163
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: the three months from now that we're making, you know,

1164
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: just it can be these things that are within reason

1165
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 3: without having to be fully in this sort of devotion stage.

1166
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: If there's certainty about how the person feels, if there's

1167
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 3: certainty that the person is reassuring them, cares about them,

1168
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 3: as investing in the relationship, then they actually don't need

1169
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 3: the ring on their finger to feel safe in the relationship.

1170
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 3: They can actually feel safe in the relationship as it's stands.

1171
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 3: And of course they'll always want that sort of fantasy

1172
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 3: outcome and then having things move in that direction. But

1173
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: I find that that's just the way to navigate those

1174
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 3: things is to move through the stages and then to

1175
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 3: have a lot of certainty and reassurance within there, and

1176
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 3: that will often then cause the anxious person to settle

1177
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 3: in a little bit more, feel more safe, feel more connected,

1178
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 3: and in turn take the pressure off a little bit,

1179
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: and the moment the pressure's off, you'll usually see the

1180
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 3: more avoidant leaning person step into the relationship with the

1181
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 3: person and be more present rather than dragging their feet

1182
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: as a response to pressure, which is the trigger, rather

1183
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 3: than the person and wanting to be with the person

1184
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 3: that's the trigger. And so as soon as you have

1185
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 3: that set up, the momentum builds in a much better way.

1186
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: That whole piece is so fascinating to me just to

1187
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 1: watch happened, because again, I think that's a societal thing

1188
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: that we have attached. Okay, if we get married, then

1189
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: I'll feel like this or like you know, like you

1190
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: think if you get to this commitment stage, it's going

1191
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: to soothe all of the feelings you have. But we

1192
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 1: never actually talk about the way to actually sue them.

1193
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: We're just talking about these programmed things of like the

1194
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: fairy tale again, And I think people get into relationships

1195
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: start going through these actual stages and think, way, I'm

1196
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: doing this wrong or this isn't the right relationship, just

1197
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: like we were talking about at the beginning of this podcast.

1198
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 3: And you'll never be able to fix an internal problem

1199
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 3: with an external thing. Yeah, And so we think, oh, yeah,

1200
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 3: I feel settled. Once after the day after the wedding,

1201
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 3: but then the problem just changed its forms. Well, how

1202
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 3: do I know they want to stay married to me?

1203
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 3: How do I know that they won't find somebody outside

1204
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 3: of the marriage?

1205
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 1: How do I know?

1206
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 3: So those programs will still stay there. And really the

1207
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 3: solution is to learn to meet each other's needs really

1208
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 3: well and navigate the power struggle stage, and also to

1209
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 3: rewire the wounds that you have. Fear of abandonment can

1210
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: be rewired, the fear of being trapped if you're more avoidant,

1211
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 3: can be rewired, like and And that's why addressing the

1212
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: subconscious mind and really getting into the neuroplasticity aspect of

1213
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 3: it and being able to rewire those triggers also speeds

1214
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 3: up our ability to navigate the stages so much more effectively.

1215
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: Did we miss one? Is there one more at the end?

1216
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: Last stage? Yes, the last age.

1217
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 3: The last stage is the everlasting stage. So this is

1218
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 3: a stage, it's honestly like the honeymoon stage. But you've

1219
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 3: you know each other, Yeah, it's.

1220
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: The real version.

1221
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 2: You really know each other. Yeah, you've lived through things

1222
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 2: at that point.

1223
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 3: And and and this is a stage where people are

1224
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 3: statistically highly highly likely almost nat zero likely to break

1225
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 3: up and people are at the stage that are acting

1226
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 3: out on their commitments. So the commitment stage is the

1227
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 3: commitment devotion part is all about like us diving in

1228
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: there and devoting to the relationship and really, you know,

1229
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 3: which is stage five, really planning and talking about it

1230
00:55:58,360 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 3: and seeing what we want to do. And then the

1231
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 3: ever last stages, we're now doing it. We're now in it,

1232
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,760
Speaker 3: we're now enacting these things. They're taking shape in our lives.

1233
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 3: And that's the place from which people are like, well,

1234
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 3: we know how to navigate conflict. If hard things come

1235
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 3: our way, we know how to address them. There's a

1236
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 3: sense of certainty, there's a sense of fulfillment because your

1237
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,800
Speaker 3: needs are deeply met, Like to actually make it to

1238
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 3: that stage, your needs have to be really, really met.

1239
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 3: And that's when I think of that idea of a business, Like,

1240
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: if you build a business and you love it and

1241
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 3: you've built it for a decade, you're not going to

1242
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 3: be like, oh, a business opportunity over here, let me

1243
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 3: leave this one behind, you know. And I think people

1244
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 3: have this fear that oh, and the fear is a

1245
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 3: reflection of them only ever knowing infatuation based love, so

1246
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 3: they fear that, Okay, my partner is going to infatuate

1247
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 3: with somebody else one day and leave me. And you know,

1248
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: when you've built something so much deeper than infatuation, it's

1249
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 3: not there's no threat to.

1250
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 2: Exactly.

1251
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 3: So there's a sense of safety, there's a sense of

1252
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 3: really building and creating together and enacting different things, and

1253
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 3: there's a sense of you know how to navigate conflict.

1254
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 3: And those really are the couples where you'll see them

1255
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 3: and they are not just together, they're happy together.

1256
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 2: And I think that that makes a huge difference.

1257
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: Again, it's that thing of I think that's the love

1258
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: everyone wants. We just don't necessarily know how to get

1259
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: there or know that there's a road to get there,

1260
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: Like we always just want this instant gratification, right, And

1261
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: I think that goes across the board with everything, but

1262
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: this being an example of another way we do that

1263
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: is that we want to just get to the last

1264
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: stage and we're not talking about all the different steps

1265
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 1: that we need to take to get there, truly get

1266
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: there exactly.

1267
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 3: And I think that short term gratification leads to short

1268
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 3: term think, like it will give you these sort of

1269
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 3: superficial things, you know, and short term gratification.

1270
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're so right.

1271
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 3: Like our whole culture conditions us. Everything conditions us, like movies, television,

1272
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 3: social media, everything is like conditioning us to live for

1273
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 3: short term gratification. But whenever we're getting short term gratification,

1274
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 3: you get superficial results. And the same thing applies to

1275
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 3: our relationships, Like, if you keep seeking out short term gratification,

1276
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 3: you're going to keep having these superficial relationships and infatuation

1277
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 3: based connections. And sure they'll feel fun and they'll feel

1278
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 3: maybe exciting. You get the little dopamine hit, but you'll

1279
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 3: quickly fall off the cliff and be like, Okay, now

1280
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 3: the dopamine h's gone. Now you know what's next. And

1281
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 3: so I think it's so important to your point to

1282
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 3: sort of share the message of like if you really

1283
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 3: look at the six stages, if you really look to

1284
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 3: navigate these things properly and do a little bit of

1285
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 3: the work, you're going to get results way beyond this

1286
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 3: sort of initial dopamine hit or excitement. You're going to

1287
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 3: actually feel it's really really deep connection. But of course

1288
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 3: it will require a little bit of that work, that

1289
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 3: vulnerability learning to navigate conflict, but that will benefit you

1290
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: in so many ways across all areas of life, like

1291
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 3: to know how to communicate properly, to know how to

1292
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: be more vulnerable.

1293
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: It will really spill into everything.

1294
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: I feel like I was thinking short term gratification probably

1295
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: equals a lot of short term relationships, like just in general.

1296
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: And the price of admission is these steps. So it's like,

1297
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: if you want the real thing, you got to go

1298
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: through the steps. Like it just makes sense to me.

1299
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: I know that the Personal Development School is now going

1300
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: to be offering a program around these six stages. Can

1301
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: you talk to the listeners a little bit about what

1302
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: that program will look like?

1303
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: Yes, for sure, thank you.

1304
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: So basically have a whole program so people can come in,

1305
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 3: they can take an assessment, even whether they're single or

1306
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 3: in a relationship. If you're single, you'll see what stage

1307
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 3: you always get stuck at and what that basically says

1308
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 3: about you and your patterns and your themes. So people

1309
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 3: really be able to dig in there and be like, oh, Okay,

1310
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 3: I get stuck at this stage because I haven't learned

1311
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 3: these rites of passage yet. I haven't learned these lessons yet.

1312
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: But maybe how to be vulnerable or how to date

1313
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: properly or how to keep the spark alive. So you'll

1314
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 3: get that report. And then on the flip side, if

1315
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 3: you're in a relationship and you're just feeling kind of

1316
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 3: stuck or like things are on the rocks, or you're

1317
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 3: not sure what to do next, you'll get really clear

1318
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 3: about where you currently are in a relationship and then

1319
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 3: what you need to be able to move through it.

1320
00:59:58,560 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 3: And then from there we take you through a whole

1321
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 3: program to define your stage, learn about all of the stages,

1322
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 3: and it takes you through exactly the inner healing you

1323
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 3: need to do, whether it's rewiring your triggers, or learning

1324
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 3: your needs, or learning to regulate your nervous system, or

1325
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 3: learning boundaries, like we have a program that will help

1326
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 3: you do the inner work plus the outer relationship work

1327
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 3: that will then help you to navigate the relationship if

1328
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 3: you're in one currently, or really set yourself up for

1329
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 3: success if you're single and hoping to be in a

1330
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 3: relationship where you thrive later on. So you get sort

1331
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 3: of the inner work the outer tools, and it sort

1332
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 3: of will come together to create this full circle healing

1333
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 3: and just ability.

1334
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 2: To really navigate things going forward.

1335
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: Well. I love that you're doing this. I think that

1336
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: it's so important for us to talk about the realities

1337
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: of how to get the relationships we want, and so

1338
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: I really I just really appreciate this conversation. I'm going

1339
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: to put all of the links to the Personal Development

1340
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: School to where you guys can follow Tai's and then

1341
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: also all your books. How many do you have? Two

1342
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: different books? I think these books, yeah, and it's all

1343
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: about attachment styles. So if you guys, she really breaks

1344
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: it down in such a digestible way that is helpful

1345
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: to actually making it tangible, like you have the tangible

1346
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: tools to make it successful in your life. So you

1347
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: guys will go love those go check those out again.

1348
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: It will all be in the description of this podcast. Tys.

1349
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here again with us.

1350
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I love chatting

1351
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 3: with yours with me too. I done like we could

1352
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 3: give it all day exactly. Thank you so much, of course,

1353
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 3: and thank you guys for listening.