Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.
Speaker 1: I am Mike Spaffer, joined as always by my trusted
Speaker 1: colleague Wes Hodkowitz, and we are coming to you here
Speaker 1: from our brand new podcast studio inside the halls of
Speaker 1: lambeau Field, Weston. This is quite the setup, my.
Speaker 2: Friend, This is quite the setup. I mean, you got
Speaker 2: to give a lot of credit to everybody in our
Speaker 2: broadcasts and game pres department, Craig Schilber, his team. I mean,
Speaker 2: when we walked in here last week, we saw the
Speaker 2: renderings and how all this stuff was going to potentially look.
Speaker 2: And then I mean I said this to you several
Speaker 2: times already. But when you think back to our first
Speaker 2: episode in twenty sixteen, we're pulling parts around, We're pulling
Speaker 2: tables from different areas to get a you know, a
Speaker 2: desk together. Matt Arvin, Craig, They're over at like the
Speaker 2: restore picking up stuff to like build a set with.
Speaker 2: And now you look at this and technology progress, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean ten years ago was heres ago
Speaker 1: the first show Man twenty sixteen, and here we are.
Speaker 1: I will say this, I know a lot of our
Speaker 1: audience is a podcast listening audience, So I will just
Speaker 1: say you may want to just for a few minutes
Speaker 1: check out the video version of this particular episode in
Speaker 1: the new studio so you can kind of see what
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. We appreciate the audience wherever they're from,
Speaker 1: whether they're watching on the video listening to the podcast.
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is pretty cool and we've got we
Speaker 1: have a ton of stuff to talk about because we've
Speaker 1: been off for too long quite frankly, but we were
Speaker 1: waiting for this studio to get built and we've been
Speaker 1: excited to get rolling here. But we need to spend
Speaker 1: some time recapping what has gone on during the off
Speaker 1: season here for the Green Bay Packers, and there's been
Speaker 1: a lot. The big three all got new contracts, the
Speaker 1: big three being Brian Gutakuntz, Matt Lafleur, Russ Ball, the
Speaker 1: top three guys at the top of the Packers football
Speaker 1: operation were all extended by new president and CEO ed Policy.
Speaker 1: We have new coaches in the building, two new coordinators,
Speaker 1: Jonathan Gannon on defense, Cam Acord on special teams, a
Speaker 1: handful of new position coaches coming into the building, and
Speaker 1: then several players coming and going as far as free
Speaker 1: agency acquisitions, departures and all that. It has been a
Speaker 1: busy few months around here as far as how the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six Packers are going to take shape. So
Speaker 1: I just sort of recapped the three big categories. I'll
Speaker 1: let you start with, though, where you think we need
Speaker 1: to begin here?
Speaker 2: I will, well, first and foremost, let's start with the
Speaker 2: stability piece, right, because that is ultimately what this all
Speaker 2: thing comes down to. The Packers had to make a
Speaker 2: decision ed policy now almost one year into his role
Speaker 2: now as the president CEO of the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 2: He mentioned the first sit down we had with him
Speaker 2: last summer. You know, we all knew there was this
Speaker 2: contracts coming onto the horizon for Brian, for Matt, obviously
Speaker 2: russ Ball in the executive vice president role in a
Speaker 2: lot of the contract stuff, and Ed wanted to kind
Speaker 2: of get through that first year and then figure out
Speaker 2: the plan. And we talked with him a lot about
Speaker 2: that in Arizona at the NFL annual meetings, and he said,
Speaker 2: you know, he knew going into even before the season ended,
Speaker 2: he wanted to extend Matt. He wanted to extend Brian.
Speaker 2: He wanted to keep his lieutenants in place here. And
Speaker 2: when you think about stability, I feel like that is
Speaker 2: kind of been sort of the hallmark of the Green
Speaker 2: Bay Packers over the last twenty five years since Ted
Speaker 2: Thompson took this thing over and rebuilt the Packers draft
Speaker 2: and developed win a Super Bowl, Brian obviously learning underneath him,
Speaker 2: learning underneath Ron Wolf. They identified their head coach in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen and Matt Lafleur. And Yes, as difficult as
Speaker 2: it was, how last season ended five straight losses, a
Speaker 2: really heartbreaking loss against the Chicago Bears, the goal for
Speaker 2: Ed was to take the emotion out of it, to
Speaker 2: look at the totality of what those three men have
Speaker 2: accomplished together. And the fact of the matter remains Matt Lafleur.
Speaker 2: Seven years as the head coach, the agreement Packers have
Speaker 2: advanced the playoffs six times the three years in a row,
Speaker 2: the youngest team in the National Football League this year,
Speaker 2: by all accounts, that won't end up working out that way.
Speaker 2: It's going to be able to taking that next step,
Speaker 2: and those three guys are in place to do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think the other thing that I heard
Speaker 1: loud and clear from ed policy is that this decision
Speaker 1: to extend to go with the stability. As you said
Speaker 1: with regard to the organization, stability should not be confused
Speaker 1: with satisfaction. There is not any element of satisfaction with
Speaker 1: how the last couple of seasons in particular have gone.
Speaker 1: Where at the end of the seasons the last two years,
Speaker 1: the Packers have not been playing their best football. Whereas
Speaker 1: earlier in Matt Lafleur's tenure saw we saw the Packers
Speaker 1: playing better in December and January than they were earlier
Speaker 1: in the year. The last couple of years down the stretch,
Speaker 1: for any number of reasons, that hasn't been the case,
Speaker 1: and they wound up with the seven seed not being
Speaker 1: able to win a first round game and the one
Speaker 1: and done in the playoffs. It doesn't sit well with anybody,
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think I think that message needs
Speaker 1: to be sent as well. But as you said, the
Speaker 1: totality the accomplishments, the foundation that's been built here, the
Speaker 1: overall youth of the roster that is still in place,
Speaker 1: and the direction things are heading. It was not time
Speaker 1: to just blow everything up and start over. There is
Speaker 1: a lot of things pointing in the right direction here
Speaker 1: and now ed policy has put his faith in Brian
Speaker 1: Gudukunst and Matt Fluir to take that next step.
Speaker 2: And you're talking about one of the best talent evaluators
Speaker 2: in the National footb leagu You're talking about on the
Speaker 2: best offensive mines and head coaches in the National Football League.
Speaker 2: And if either Matt Lafleur or Brian Goudiguins came unattached
Speaker 2: to the Green Bay Packers, they were going to have
Speaker 2: a job within forty eight hours if they wanted to,
Speaker 2: no doubt. And that isn't how this thing always works, right,
Speaker 2: God bless Mike McCarthy loved the dude. He had to
Speaker 2: sit out twice of a full season before getting that
Speaker 2: next opportunity. The Packers have something good going here. And
Speaker 2: when you think about Ed and also you know he's
Speaker 2: got a long run here too, Right, this is the
Speaker 2: beginning of his tenure running this whole entire organization. To
Speaker 2: upset the apple cart now, I think would have been
Speaker 2: unwise in my personal opinion. And now the Packers with
Speaker 2: what they have in place. You heard all the guys
Speaker 2: talk about it this offseason. Ed mentioned the amount of
Speaker 2: people that came up to him from the locker room
Speaker 2: to talk to about Matt Lafleur. There's I feel like
Speaker 2: a good energy in this building right now. Now they
Speaker 2: understand the expectations. As you said, complacency can't be a thing.
Speaker 2: But that being said, with the moves they've made and
Speaker 2: how deep this roster already is a day before the
Speaker 2: NFL Draft, in which time we're taping this, I think
Speaker 2: that tells you that this team is ready to compete,
Speaker 2: and why would you want to take away the guys
Speaker 2: that have helped kind of oversee that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, other changes that have gone on here in
Speaker 1: the last few months. I don't want to gloss over this,
Speaker 1: but I will say we're going to talk about this
Speaker 1: more in depth, I think on a future show, and
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the changes with the coaching staff, with
Speaker 1: Jonathan Gannon coming in as the new defensive coordinator, with
Speaker 1: Jeff Haffley getting the head coaching job in Miami. Congratulations
Speaker 1: to coach Hafley, by the way, tremendous and wish him
Speaker 1: the best of luck in all but one game in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, when the Dolphins come to Lambo and
Speaker 1: cam Acord taking over as special teams coordinator after the
Speaker 1: surprising and somewhat sudden departure of Rich Basacia, which Matt Lafleur,
Speaker 1: Brian Gutcunz, they admitted they didn't really see that coming,
Speaker 1: but they reacted to what was in front of them,
Speaker 1: and cam Acord is now in place. We're expecting to
Speaker 1: be able to talk to both of those new coordinators
Speaker 1: and some of the new assistant coaches during OTA's later
Speaker 1: this spring, and so I want to kind of push
Speaker 1: that discussion until later when it comes to this roster
Speaker 1: that you were just talking about a lot of change
Speaker 1: in terms of in terms of players coming and going
Speaker 1: of all of those, and we'll try to touch on
Speaker 1: all of them in one fashion or another, but what
Speaker 1: would you say is sort of the biggest headline in
Speaker 1: terms of what's changed with this Packers roster?
Speaker 2: Well, when you were we were doing the intro and
Speaker 2: you were talking about, like what I think, I think
Speaker 2: the most salient thing when you talk about the construction
Speaker 2: of the team is obviously who the lieutenants are, who
Speaker 2: the guys running this whole show, right, But in terms
Speaker 2: of my idea of what this offseason headline was and
Speaker 2: this theme was, was surprise and you touched on a
Speaker 2: little bit with rich and him obviously moving on and
Speaker 2: now at Clemson. But there were so many moves that
Speaker 2: Brian Goodikunz made this offseason that legitimately surprised me. I
Speaker 2: never saw a trade for Zire Franklin coming in them
Speaker 2: sending Colby Wooden to Indianapolis a player for player trade.
Speaker 2: Tell me the last time that's even happened in Green Bay?
Speaker 2: Maybe Anthony Smith.
Speaker 1: I was trying to get that's the name Anthony Smith
Speaker 1: from back in twenty ten orven whatever year that was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe the last.
Speaker 2: Time they've done a couple of very small ones like
Speaker 2: in the offseason, but not for like a starting nose tackle,
Speaker 2: starting defensive tackle for an all Pro linebacker. And that
Speaker 2: sort of set the tone for how this whole offseason
Speaker 2: sort of went. There were things that we expect, I
Speaker 2: think you and I when you look at how many
Speaker 2: guys departed from this roster und restricted free agency, I
Speaker 2: think we kind of expected that this is how that
Speaker 2: thing was going to go. Romeo Dobbs, Rashid Walker, all
Speaker 2: these guys supupremuly talented, Kingsley, j j a Ning, Bari
Speaker 2: Kay Walker. Yeah, but the fact was is that there
Speaker 2: were questions there about whether any of those guys back
Speaker 2: based on the depth of how those positions already sort
Speaker 2: of lined up and who the next guy up was
Speaker 2: going to be, and the packers also understanding what's going
Speaker 2: to be coming around the bend here in twenty twenty seven,
Speaker 2: Tucker Kraft, Christian Watson, Jaden Reid some big contracts that
Speaker 2: they're going to have to address here down the line.
Speaker 2: So all that being said, the moves that Brian Gudikuntz
Speaker 2: made without having a first round pick, without having that
Speaker 2: type of flexibility to move around with that piece, that
Speaker 2: was probably what surprised me the most. We saw the
Speaker 2: most trades, we saw some really intriguing signings, a sky More,
Speaker 2: a Javon Hargrove, a Hardgrave excuse me, where you know,
Speaker 2: being in dipping back into that free agent kind of
Speaker 2: crop was something that I think we expected, but just
Speaker 2: the guys that they brought in were probably the ones
Speaker 2: that sort of surprised me a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to talk a little bit of
Speaker 1: draft preview stuff here in a bit, So this h
Speaker 1: this functions is a pretty good segue because when I
Speaker 1: look at what happened with regard to the roster, the
Speaker 1: comings and goings of the players. As you said, we
Speaker 1: expected kway Walker, Rashid Walker, Romeo Dobbs, Malik Willis, We
Speaker 1: expected those guys to move on. They weren't. Really the
Speaker 1: thought was that they weren't going to be coming back.
Speaker 1: And so within that context, it was sort of like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: it looks like you're gonna need, you know, an inside linebacker,
Speaker 1: you're gonna need a defensive tackle, You're gonna want to
Speaker 1: boost the cornerback room, you're going to want to address
Speaker 1: special teams. And what did Brian Gudakums do in the offseason?
Speaker 1: He made He made the move for Franklin at linebacker.
Speaker 1: He signed Hardgrave, he signed Sky Moore, he signed Benjamin
Speaker 1: Saint Jus at cornerback. Now that doesn't mean those he's
Speaker 1: all done with those positions, but the moves that he made,
Speaker 1: he set himself up to not be forced into anything
Speaker 1: in the draft.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: He covered, he covered his bases. And this is a
Speaker 1: strategy that we've seen from Gutakunts over the years, and
Speaker 1: it's a It's really served the Packers well because, as
Speaker 1: I said, and Gutakunz said on Tuesday when he addressed
Speaker 1: the media for roughly a half an hour, he came
Speaker 1: right out and said, we're gonna add numbers at cornerback.
Speaker 1: Like he basically advertised the fact that Packers are going
Speaker 1: to draft a cornerback, if not multiple cornerbacks with their
Speaker 1: eight picks coming up here this weekend. But what he
Speaker 1: did is by you know, say, looking at that position,
Speaker 1: in particular, by signing a guy like Saint Juice to
Speaker 1: come in when Nate Hobbs is not returning. He was
Speaker 1: he was released. Gutukunst isn't going to feel forced to like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to use that second round pick. My first
Speaker 1: needs to be used on a cornerback er, it needs
Speaker 1: to be used on a defensive tackle. No, because he
Speaker 1: went out and got Javon Hargrave, a guy whose best
Speaker 1: years over his eleven years in the NFL, his best
Speaker 1: years have been with Jonathan Gannon as his defensive coordinator
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. So the GM was covering his bases and
Speaker 1: setting himself up this weekend without the first round pick,
Speaker 1: but with eight picks going in on Friday and Saturday,
Speaker 1: to let the board come to him. He doesn't have
Speaker 1: to force anything. He doesn't have to feel desperate in
Speaker 1: any particular spot to go and fill a hole. He's
Speaker 1: going to build and add to the depth of this
Speaker 1: team at those positions, but it's not going to be
Speaker 1: with his hand forced. And that's what he spent that
Speaker 1: from March through April doing.
Speaker 2: And you go back to even like twenty nineteen, right
Speaker 2: when he started this whole thing in Green Bay, what
Speaker 2: did he do? He signed the Smith Bros. And then
Speaker 2: one month later drafted Rashaan Garrett, right, So it was
Speaker 2: like the over seating sometimes of that position I think
Speaker 2: has really served the Packers. Well, maybe this is a
Speaker 2: year where they look at that at cornerback. But one
Speaker 2: thing I really liked about the Saint Juwice signing in
Speaker 2: particular was last year, you know, they paid a pretty
Speaker 2: penny for Nate Hobbs. It didn't work out. I thought
Speaker 2: Hobbs in the locker room, great dude, he was. He
Speaker 2: was great to deal with. But whether it be the injury,
Speaker 2: whether it be not really a great fit on the perimeter,
Speaker 2: his opportunity never really worked out. What's cool about Saint
Speaker 2: just is you're not paying that type of premium contract
Speaker 2: this time, the guy is coming off a career year
Speaker 2: in a rotational sub package roll with the LA Chargers,
Speaker 2: and now we'll be able to compete with a Carrington Valentine.
Speaker 2: Or if they do take a cornerback in the second round,
Speaker 2: maybe that guy comes in and pushes for that. The
Speaker 2: big message that Brian, he spoke for almost a half
Speaker 2: an hour on Tuesday, and his big message was he
Speaker 2: wants to create competition at as many of these spots
Speaker 2: as possible. That's where there are right now. And then
Speaker 2: what's the benefit of that, what's the byproduct of that?
Speaker 2: Look at the trade he made a week and a
Speaker 2: half ago here now with the Dantavian Wicks. Dantavian Wicks
Speaker 2: was a fifth round pick, really nice player, good fine
Speaker 2: for green Bay. But as he said, he wasn't sure
Speaker 2: what his long term forecast was going to be. You
Speaker 2: have other issues and other positions they have to address
Speaker 2: here in free agency next year. Was Wix going to
Speaker 2: be back? And if he doesn't come back, okay, well
Speaker 2: then you get a compensatory pick. But what if the
Speaker 2: Packers are active in free agency and that cancels out
Speaker 2: the compensatory pick. So he moves him along to Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: They get an extra fifth, so now they're up to
Speaker 2: six picks on Day three and then also a six
Speaker 2: rounder next year. That's the push like kind of pushing
Speaker 2: it forward that you want to do when you're able
Speaker 2: to take one pick, make it too. And I just
Speaker 2: feel like the long term view and these are the
Speaker 2: type of moves you can make when you know all
Speaker 2: your pieces are in place. From an administrative standpoint, and
Speaker 2: now the Packers can see how this thing, survey this landscape,
Speaker 2: see where the positions are deep, see what things sit
Speaker 2: at number fifty two on Thursday on Friday night, and
Speaker 2: try to make the best decision possible for this franchise
Speaker 2: moving forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's about protecting and maximizing your assets at the
Speaker 1: same time. Right, So I do want to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more about the draft. There's plenty to discuss
Speaker 1: in that realm, but we'll take a quick break and
Speaker 1: be back in a moment after a word from our sponsor.
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Speaker 1: Twenty four to seven, three sixty five. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: Packers Unscripted. All right, Wes. This is gonna be a different,
Speaker 1: a really different draft for the Green Bay Packers, certainly
Speaker 1: compared to last year, for a couple reasons. One, the
Speaker 1: draft isn't right outside the parking lot. That helped. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's in Pittsburgh, a little less chaos around around
Speaker 1: the building. Although that was absolutely a blast to have
Speaker 1: the draft here in Green Bay, and I hope it
Speaker 1: happens again sometime. Ed Policy has even mentioned the Packers
Speaker 1: are gonna throw their hat in the ring again to
Speaker 1: host the draft here somewhere down the road.
Speaker 2: I think that'd be pretty You're gonna have to if it,
Speaker 2: depending on when it happens. If you're already off in
Speaker 2: the island somewhere, you're gonna have to come back and
Speaker 2: chip in on that one, just experience.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll maybe I'll get to walk up on the
Speaker 1: stage and annou yeah, there you go round or something
Speaker 1: like that, like GROSSI last year. Exactly. I'll take Tom
Speaker 1: Grassi spot. I'm sorry, Tom, I'm already there. But no
Speaker 1: so looking at this year eight picks right now, because
Speaker 1: the other big difference of courses, the Packers do not
Speaker 1: have a first round pick. This year's first rounder next
Speaker 1: year's first rounder included in the Micah Parsons trade last August,
Speaker 1: so eight picks going in, one in each round from
Speaker 1: two through six, and then two picks in round seven,
Speaker 1: with the extra one being a compensatory selection. I think
Speaker 1: it's like the third to last pick in the entire draft.
Speaker 1: But I also but I think the other number aside
Speaker 1: from eight picks in this draft to think about going
Speaker 1: into this is that and Brian Goodekunz mentioned it a
Speaker 1: couple of times in speaking with the media on Tuesday.
Speaker 1: Packers are looking at having eleven, possibly more eleven plus
Speaker 1: picks in next year's draft because of a the compensatory
Speaker 1: picks they're expecting to get for the departures of kway
Speaker 1: Walker and Malik will and Romeo Dobbs, et cetera. But
Speaker 1: also the Rashaan Gary trade netted an extra fourth round
Speaker 1: pick for next year, and as you had just discussed previously,
Speaker 1: the Dantavian Wicks trade, which added a I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: got the picks wrong because I said one pick two
Speaker 1: through six. There's an extra pick in the fifth round
Speaker 1: for Dantavian Wicks. So there's two picks in the fifth
Speaker 1: and two picks in the seventh Sorry about that, correct
Speaker 1: myself there, But there is also an extra sixth round
Speaker 1: pick next year from the Dantavian Wicks trade, right, so
Speaker 1: all of those picks. I thought it was interesting, I
Speaker 1: guess because I wasn't sure if he was going to
Speaker 1: tip his hand necessarily, but I thought I thought Guda
Speaker 1: Kunst was was sort of in a very relaxed sense,
Speaker 1: was making it pretty clear that he's not going to
Speaker 1: be averse to trading one of those picks next year
Speaker 1: if he if there's an opportunity to maybe move up
Speaker 1: this year for a guy that he likes. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking that the Packers would necessarily have the draft
Speaker 1: capital or want to spend any of that draft capital
Speaker 1: next year to move up into the first round this year.
Speaker 1: Hard it would be very, very difficult. But if you're
Speaker 1: talking about moving up in the second round, say from
Speaker 1: fifty two where they sit right now, up to forty
Speaker 1: five or forty three or something like that, or moving
Speaker 1: up in the third round from eighty four, say up
Speaker 1: to seventy five or seventy something like that, those types
Speaker 1: of moves up. While I still think it's maybe a
Speaker 1: little unlikely, It's just my gut is that it's unlikely.
Speaker 1: You can't rule it out because of that draft capital
Speaker 1: that he has next year. If he's willing to spend.
Speaker 2: It, well, okay, and you always have to read the
Speaker 2: tea leaves, right, you gotta see the whole bandwidth of
Speaker 2: how things go and the moves that Brian Goodigains makes.
Speaker 2: I felt like there was a turning point back during
Speaker 2: training camp, at the end of training camp when he
Speaker 2: traded a future six round pick to Philadelphia to get
Speaker 2: Darren Kinnard here. We never seen anything quite like that
Speaker 2: that he traded a twenty twenty six pick. He traded
Speaker 2: a twenty twenty seventh pick. Now, as it turns out,
Speaker 2: they know flopping around some six rounders anyway now because
Speaker 2: of this Wicks trade. But that was the long term
Speaker 2: view that Gooda Kunts was taking. So I feel like
Speaker 2: what this offseason, if anything, has proven, is that he
Speaker 2: is going to He's always talked about, you know, turning
Speaker 2: over every stone, looking at every possibility and picking up
Speaker 2: and making every phone call. And Brian's done that the
Speaker 2: rashan thing, to be honest with you, That did surprise
Speaker 2: me a little bit. With the fourth round pick, not
Speaker 2: because of Rashan, but because Rashaan comes with a contract,
Speaker 2: Like there was already a deal that Green Bay had
Speaker 2: done several years ago. The Cowboys, i think, kind of
Speaker 2: redid it a little bit, but they're absorbing something. It's
Speaker 2: not just like this. The Kenny Clark thing was a
Speaker 2: really easy deal for the Cowboys to do last year
Speaker 2: because he just had that base salary. The Packers were
Speaker 2: paying out the signing bonus all the other stuff. So
Speaker 2: to be able to get a fourth next year, that
Speaker 2: that gives you some equity, regardless of whether or not
Speaker 2: you want to move that or you want to use
Speaker 2: it in the back of your head like that's that's
Speaker 2: a real pick. When you get to the beyond the
Speaker 2: fifth round, then you start looking at the draft value chart,
Speaker 2: everything kind of starts losing a lot of its power.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm very curious to see how this plays out.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I'm very excited as much as you want
Speaker 2: to have a first round pick, as much as you
Speaker 2: and I want to be covering a you know, a
Speaker 2: top blue chipper on that first night, somebody that probably
Speaker 2: is the best player on their team or maybe even
Speaker 2: the best player in their conference. To be able to
Speaker 2: look at the second round and focus in on a
Speaker 2: little bit more has been kind of a fun exercise
Speaker 2: because if you look back on it, Green Bay has
Speaker 2: had a lot of success there, Ted Thompson did, and
Speaker 2: Brian Goodikuntz has been on a real heater in that
Speaker 2: round too now, so especially when you factor in the
Speaker 2: Day three or the third round pick later in Day
Speaker 2: two with Tucker Kraft a couple of years ago. So
Speaker 2: that aspect of it is really intriguing to me. The
Speaker 2: spotlight is shining bright on them. And then you think
Speaker 2: about fifty two, Well, you go back to twenty fourteen,
Speaker 2: I think they got DeVante. Yeah, DeVante Adams is fifty three.
Speaker 2: I think that year right around there. So opportunity of plenty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I will you mentioned it's been an interesting
Speaker 1: exercise to kind of study more of the Day two
Speaker 1: picks us the first round picks, just for you know,
Speaker 1: trying for ourselves, just to get an idea of who's
Speaker 1: out there and who might fit the packers and whatnot.
Speaker 1: So I'll throw in a plug for some of our
Speaker 1: content for the last several weeks on the website, we've
Speaker 1: been doing a prospect primer. It's a series that we
Speaker 1: do every year trying to look at, you know, players
Speaker 1: at different positions that might fit where the Packers are picking. Well.
Speaker 1: This year, that study of those of those potential of
Speaker 1: those possibilities was focused on Day two players, Round two,
Speaker 1: Round three guys projected to go on the second day
Speaker 1: of the draft as opposed to the first day of
Speaker 1: the draft. So series of videos out there on packers
Speaker 1: dot Com, a few guys at all the different positions
Speaker 1: if you just want to get a taste of maybe
Speaker 1: some possibilities of guys that the Packers might be looking at.
Speaker 1: That being said, so I want to throw this I'll
Speaker 1: throw this question at you because I think this is
Speaker 1: one that we that we kind of toss around every
Speaker 1: year right before the draft. Packers are going into this
Speaker 1: draft with eight picks, and since I batched it before,
Speaker 1: I'll run it through one in rounds two, three and
Speaker 1: four each two in round five, one in round six, two,
Speaker 1: in round seven, eight picks going in. So, how many
Speaker 1: picks do you think the Packers will come out of
Speaker 1: this draft?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go ten. Oh, I think there's gonna be
Speaker 2: some flexibility. And that's not to say they can't move
Speaker 2: up at a time too. There's a couple of players
Speaker 2: in the second round that if Brian Gudikuns want to
Speaker 2: throw some assets to go get them, I would be
Speaker 2: very pleased. But I just look at that sixth round
Speaker 2: in particular. I just feel like there's gonna be an
Speaker 2: opportunity there, whether it's them moving back maybe with one
Speaker 2: of the fifth rounders, or maybe them trading some future
Speaker 2: capital to get back in there. I just wonder, after
Speaker 2: sitting on the bench on Thursday, which is what I
Speaker 2: would anticipate Green Bay does, because you're gonna you'd have
Speaker 2: to move a player. I think at this point to
Speaker 2: be they're not gonna trade in the twenty eight first rounder.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that sixth round is where I
Speaker 2: don't want to say Gudiacuns could get antsy, but maybe
Speaker 2: there starts to be some of those guys that have
Speaker 2: equal value. You look at them from rounds five to seven,
Speaker 2: and maybe somebody's still on the board there that you
Speaker 2: want to try to take a double dip on. But
Speaker 2: I think ten I feel like this is a year,
Speaker 2: especially the way that he talked, you never know how
Speaker 2: next year could happen. You never know if there might
Speaker 2: be another pick they could end up picking up through
Speaker 2: a trade, But right now, I think ten feels to
Speaker 2: me like I would love fewer because it makes it
Speaker 2: for less stories and we all get home quicker.
Speaker 1: But fewer picks less work for us. But that's just
Speaker 1: selfish on our part.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's that doesn't help the football team. It just
Speaker 2: helps me get to better earlier on Sunday morning.
Speaker 1: That's right. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with nine.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think I think the trade back
Speaker 1: idea scenario is more likely than the trade up. And
Speaker 1: even though I just talked about how Guda Kunst was discussing,
Speaker 1: you know, the possibility of trading you know, some of
Speaker 1: those or a draft asset next year to move up
Speaker 1: this year, I just I just wonder if he's going
Speaker 1: to hang on to that hall of picks he's got
Speaker 1: next year, just in case, just in case he might
Speaker 1: have enough or an idea of being able to get
Speaker 1: back into the first round next year and not have
Speaker 1: to go two consecutive years without first round pick. Again,
Speaker 1: pure speculation on my part. I have no idea what
Speaker 1: he's thinking, and at this point it's all going to
Speaker 1: depend on how the board looks in certain moments, right,
Speaker 1: and how they feel about certain players and whatnot. So
Speaker 1: it's it, it's just conjecture.
Speaker 2: The thing that's been in my mind a lot this
Speaker 2: week has been the twenty thirteen draft. Now, I've always
Speaker 2: made it known, like that's what one of my favorite
Speaker 2: Packers drafts ever, Right, I mean, when you think about
Speaker 2: you get an All Pro, potential Hall of Fame left
Speaker 2: tackle on the fourth round, that's a great story, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: But what I liked most about that draft is the
Speaker 2: Packers drafted the NFL offensive rookie of the year at
Speaker 2: the end of the second round. People talk about Eddie
Speaker 2: Lacy being a second round pick. He was, but like
Speaker 2: Randall Cobb, it came in the eleventh hour.
Speaker 1: And if I remember right, Ted kept trading back. He
Speaker 1: didn't in the second round because everybody was like, take
Speaker 1: Eddie Lacey to Eddy Lacy, and Ted traded back a
Speaker 1: couple of times, and then Eddie Lacy was still there
Speaker 1: and available for him when he wanted him, and then
Speaker 1: he had other draft assets for the rest of the weekend.
Speaker 2: And then what else happened? They ended up not in
Speaker 2: the third round. They ended up with a bunch of
Speaker 2: fourth rounders. You took j C. Tretder, you took David Baktiari.
Speaker 2: The fifth round netted you Micah Hyde. We're talking about
Speaker 2: all pro players. We're talking about perennial starters. We're talking
Speaker 2: about franchise builders. That's the type of thing I'm looking
Speaker 2: for in this draft. I don't know how many guys
Speaker 2: Green Bay needs to end up with on Monday morning
Speaker 2: that are going to be like, Okay, well they're going
Speaker 2: to be starting this season, but it would be nice.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that kind of hurt
Speaker 2: green Bay last year when you talked about the barrage
Speaker 2: of injuries that they dealt with, was how many times
Speaker 2: it ended up having to be an undrafted guy or
Speaker 2: maybe a guy that just got here, like a Josh
Speaker 2: Wiley that ended up having to play after Tuckercraft's injury.
Speaker 2: If you can have a couple of those guys in
Speaker 2: the pipeline so that late in the season, a dude
Speaker 2: that has some real makeup, knows your offense, knows your defense,
Speaker 2: and then gets put into that role. That's where you
Speaker 2: see Aaron Jones has come from, right, That's where you
Speaker 2: see the Mica Hydes ultimately step up, and I think
Speaker 2: this would be a really good draft if the Packers
Speaker 2: could get two or three of those guys specifically on
Speaker 2: Day three, Brian goodekunsk in the long runs can be
Speaker 2: really happy.
Speaker 1: Well. The other thing we've certainly seen a strategy that
Speaker 1: Goodakuns does not shy away from is doubling up at positions.
Speaker 1: You know, sort of hedging your bets because you know
Speaker 1: that not every draft pick is going to pan out,
Speaker 1: and so just because you draft a guy at a
Speaker 1: certain position doesn't mean you're done there, you know, for
Speaker 1: the weekend. So is there a position or positions that
Speaker 1: you think would be if Goodakuns is going to double
Speaker 1: up in a spot that you think would be most likely.
Speaker 2: I think the most likely is obviously cornerback. And the
Speaker 2: reason I would say that is not just because we've
Speaker 2: talked about it. You have to look at the long
Speaker 2: term view here. Saint Juice is the only cornerback on
Speaker 2: this roster that has a contract right now for twenty
Speaker 2: twenty seven, and they got really lucky with what Keishawn
Speaker 2: Nixon has given him. I'm no so when you look
Speaker 2: at a guy that came in got non tendered, did
Speaker 2: not get a restricted contract offer from Oakland slash Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: He comes in here as a flyer and dime cornerback,
Speaker 2: becomes your nickel cornerback and your kickoff returner, all pro
Speaker 2: kickoff returner. Then suddenly a couple of years later as
Speaker 2: you'r CB one. That's remarkable return on investment, one of
Speaker 2: the best street free agent signings green Bay's ever had,
Speaker 2: especially in the modern era. But him and Carrington Valentine,
Speaker 2: a seventh rounder three years ago, they weren't the Jyr
Speaker 2: Alexander types, the Quinton Rollins types, the guys that you
Speaker 2: drafted you'd like, Okay, well, these are the guys we're
Speaker 2: gonna have starting for us in a few years. It
Speaker 2: didn't work out that way. So I feel like green
Speaker 2: Bay needs to kind of replenish the coffers a little bit.
Speaker 2: As I've written routinely in our Insider Inbox column, we
Speaker 2: are now going on five years since the last time
Speaker 2: the Packers drafted a cornerback, a perimeter quarterback at that
Speaker 2: outside of the seventh round. We're talking not even about
Speaker 2: day two. We're talking about that. And when you think
Speaker 2: about what happened with receiver. Where there's a couple of
Speaker 2: years during the DeVante Adams peak of his powers, the
Speaker 2: Packers weren't drafting receivers. They eventually need to go get
Speaker 2: Christian Watson, They needed to get Romeo Dobbs in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two. I feel like that's where we're at right
Speaker 2: now with cornerback.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you there entirely with regard to the
Speaker 1: cornerback position. And as we talked about before, I mean,
Speaker 1: god to constant mince words. I mean, he said we're
Speaker 1: gonna add numbers at corner. He wants to. I think
Speaker 1: he wants to build a deeper position that where guys
Speaker 1: are really gonna duke it out during training camp in
Speaker 1: the preseason in terms of in terms of just where
Speaker 1: the depth chart is going to fall. You know, who's
Speaker 1: the number two, number three, number four, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: how is this all going to fit in in Jonathan
Speaker 1: Gannon's defense. The other the other one, I would say,
Speaker 1: I feel just because he's done it so many times
Speaker 1: in the past. As far as far as a potential
Speaker 1: double up would be offensive line now, he did say
Speaker 1: on Tuesday he feels pretty good about the depth of
Speaker 1: the offensive line. I thought it was interesting that he
Speaker 1: specifically mentioned he really liked what he saw of Jacob
Speaker 1: Monk center for the entire game the Week eighteen game
Speaker 1: against Minnesota, when the Packers were resting their starters for
Speaker 1: the playoffs, lots of guys got big opportunities. It sounds
Speaker 1: like Jacob Monk really took advantage of his opportunity and
Speaker 1: made an impression which sort of takes the pressure off,
Speaker 1: where at least takes the attention off in a way
Speaker 1: from Okay, are the Packers going to go draft a
Speaker 1: center out of here to be the backup to Sean
Speaker 1: Ryan who got a new contract to be the new center,
Speaker 1: since you know, he moved over there when Elton Jenkins
Speaker 1: got hurt and played well enough to get himself a
Speaker 1: new contract. So I thought that was that was an
Speaker 1: interesting comment. And he also he mentioned Travis Glover as well,
Speaker 1: who now, like, yeah, you know, he was a six
Speaker 1: round pick a couple of years ago, and he got
Speaker 1: thrust into things in the playoff game in Philly two
Speaker 1: januaries ago, and things didn't go all that well, and
Speaker 1: then he lost his entire twenty twenty five season two
Speaker 1: a really bad shoulder injury and also a lap muscle
Speaker 1: injury was involved in that.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: But unprompted, Gouda Kunz mentioned Travis Glover's coming back. I mean,
Speaker 1: so that's a guy. It's like, it's easy to forget
Speaker 1: about guys when they miss an entire season due to
Speaker 1: injury like he did, right, But that's a guy that
Speaker 1: that this this front office feels like is a key
Speaker 1: piece to the depth on the offensive line currently as well.
Speaker 1: And then they brought back Darien Kinnard, who was a
Speaker 1: restricted free agent. They brought back Donovan Jennings, an exclusive
Speaker 1: rights guy. So he feels pretty good about the depth
Speaker 1: on the offensive line. That being said, it still wouldn't
Speaker 1: surprise me out of the eight picks or if he
Speaker 1: ends up with nine or ten if a couple of
Speaker 1: those are offensive linemen, just because I mean it truly
Speaker 1: is if there's if there's any position where you where
Speaker 1: you can never have enough. I mean you not only
Speaker 1: need you know, you not only need five starters, You
Speaker 1: have to have at least three more guys that are
Speaker 1: going to be active on every game day, and then
Speaker 1: you want to have a couple of more guys behind
Speaker 1: them just to you know, to be able to deal
Speaker 1: with any sort of injury run that that might arise,
Speaker 1: So I could see a potential double up on the
Speaker 1: offensive line.
Speaker 2: Well, and the fact that Kinnard's even on this roster
Speaker 2: begin with is a testament to that, right. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is not a guy that was on the roster
Speaker 2: all of last seat, all of last offseason, and then
Speaker 2: the Packers bring him in right at the start of
Speaker 2: the regular season because of some of the injuries, because
Speaker 2: they needed a little bit more depth, they needed a
Speaker 2: swing tackle. So the one other thing I want to say,
Speaker 2: though it won't be a double up position, but eight
Speaker 2: picks as it stands, I would be really surprised if
Speaker 2: you and I are sitting here next Tuesday on our
Speaker 2: next show of Packers Unscripted from our brand new studio,
Speaker 2: if there's not another tight end on this roster. I
Speaker 2: feel like we've spent so much time in the media
Speaker 2: talking about, Okay, do the Packers need to draft QB two?
Speaker 2: You know, is what's the do they need another receiver
Speaker 2: after trading down Tavian Wicks. Tight end is the position
Speaker 2: now that I think kind of comes into look because
Speaker 2: two things. One, John Fitzpatrick unfortunately the Achilles injury. That's
Speaker 2: your blocking tight end. He's not on the roster. I
Speaker 2: don't know what his prognosis is for this season. Terrible
Speaker 2: timing for him too with that Ben Simms is they
Speaker 2: didn't bring it. Now he's in Miami. I feel like,
Speaker 2: not only do you want to get somebody in that room,
Speaker 2: a young guy in that room with Tucker Craft, I
Speaker 2: think it's really important to be able to find some
Speaker 2: more depth there, find maybe another inline option for you
Speaker 2: so you can get a little bit more creative too.
Speaker 2: With with how you lose the use Luke Musgrave. This
Speaker 2: would be to me an ideal here. It's been three
Speaker 2: years now going into this thing. This would be an
Speaker 2: ideal here to pick up another one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned that. The two positions that I'm really
Speaker 1: going to be thinking about come day three on Saturday
Speaker 1: of this draft is are are the Packers going to
Speaker 1: add to some add some depth to the tight end
Speaker 1: room and uh and start to look a little more
Speaker 1: towards the future again. Obviously the biggest piece of the
Speaker 1: future right now at tight end is with Tucker Craft
Speaker 1: going into the contract, you're coming off of the ACL
Speaker 1: you know, a candidate for a big time extension. Obviously,
Speaker 1: so that be watched closely. But what else about the
Speaker 1: future of the tight end position? And then the other
Speaker 1: one you you mentioned it in passing. Are they going
Speaker 1: to draft a quarterback? Are they going to bring in
Speaker 1: a rookie to compete with Desmond Ritter and Kyle McCord
Speaker 1: for who is the next QB two behind Jordan Love
Speaker 1: after you know, the last two years the Packers had
Speaker 1: the best QB two in all of the NFL and
Speaker 1: it served them quite well. So those are things. But again,
Speaker 1: when you're only going into the draft with eight picks,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't do everything in one draft, right, Like,
Speaker 1: we're going to be sitting here next week talking about
Speaker 1: potentially something that didn't happen that we thought maybe would
Speaker 1: because because you know, eight selections is is not the
Speaker 1: hall that Gouda Kuntz has had in the past and
Speaker 1: that he's potentially going to have next year where he
Speaker 1: goes into a draft with double digit picks and then
Speaker 1: you feel like, okay, well they're gonna be able to
Speaker 1: do you know, ABC, D and E and you kindind
Speaker 1: of touch on everything there.
Speaker 2: So we'll be interesting to watch too. How that quarterback
Speaker 2: board on Day three falls because two things to that. One,
Speaker 2: obviously you have to have someone there that's worth the value.
Speaker 2: But two, if green Bay would potentially approach it from
Speaker 2: an undrafted college free agent role, you would think this
Speaker 2: job would be the bell of the ball right now
Speaker 2: because with respect to Ritter and respect to McCord, both
Speaker 2: draft picks in this NFL, they both came in at
Speaker 2: the end of the season, they weren't on other rosters, right.
Speaker 2: McCord ended up his contract expired from Philadelphia, he signed
Speaker 2: here as a future signing. You had Ritter who was
Speaker 2: on the market. Packers brought him in after things didn't
Speaker 2: quite work out with Clayton Tune in that finale. So
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a lot of agents. There's gonna be
Speaker 2: a lot of quarterbacks that maybe don't get drafted in
Speaker 2: this thing that when they're putting together their board, you
Speaker 2: would think green Bay is going to be pretty high
Speaker 2: on that list.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean it's going to be. It's going
Speaker 1: to be a fascinating few days. The first day is
Speaker 1: going to be a little inactive for all of us.
Speaker 2: Yes, so what are we doing bringing a deck of
Speaker 2: cards or what's there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. You will play some uh you know, cribbage.
Speaker 2: Up for some crill.
Speaker 1: Bring my board. I got that. I got that, uh
Speaker 1: the cribbage board last year with the racing sausages from.
Speaker 2: Oh Nice, I got that out of you. Bring that.
Speaker 2: I'll bring my Pokemon cards. We can teach each other
Speaker 2: how to play hardwork.
Speaker 1: That sounds good, sound good. So with that we'll call
Speaker 1: it a rap on this comeback episode of Packers unscripted
Speaker 1: here in our brand new studio. We will be back
Speaker 1: next week and in the succeeding weeks through essentially through
Speaker 1: like off season program OTAs in mini camp, trying to
Speaker 1: do a couple episodes a week up until say like
Speaker 1: early to mid June something like that, before we take
Speaker 1: another break. So hope to see you again next week.
Speaker 1: But for now, thank you for tuning in, and we
Speaker 1: will see you next time.