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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri

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Speaker 1: back with Paul Halpern as we're talking about his latest work,

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Speaker 1: Flashes of Creation. It's the great debate. Paul kind of

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Speaker 1: paint us a picture, if you can, of what things

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Speaker 1: looked like prior to the so called Big Bang. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would we be if we were watching it from above,

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Speaker 1: from somewhere, what would it look like? What would it be? Well,

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Speaker 1: at that point, space was infinitesimally small, So we think,

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Speaker 1: strangely enough, that time began with the Big Bang, unless

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Speaker 1: you believe in this idea of the Big Bounce, that

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Speaker 1: there were previous epics of the universe out there, as

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Speaker 1: previous cycles. But if you strictly believe in the standard

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Speaker 1: Big Bang theory that says that the universe began as

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Speaker 1: a singularity, which is a point of infinite density. So

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Speaker 1: everything around us was compacted to a single point, so

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Speaker 1: you would see a single point of space and that

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Speaker 1: would stretch out and it's there. There's no center though

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Speaker 1: for the Big Bang, no place in the universe where

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Speaker 1: it actually happened, because everything is stretching out at the

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Speaker 1: same rate. All galaxies are moving away from each other

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Speaker 1: at the same rate, so it's People describe it a

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Speaker 1: little bit like imagining taking a balloon and putting dots

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Speaker 1: on the balloon and deflating the balloon, the dots will

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Speaker 1: all equally get closer and closer together. And if you

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Speaker 1: run that forward in time, you imagine dots on a

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Speaker 1: balloon that as you blow up a balloon, they get

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Speaker 1: farther and farther away from each other. So that's the

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Speaker 1: idea of the Big Bang theory. And in theory, what

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Speaker 1: blew up? What was the bang? Well, it's space itself.

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Speaker 1: Strangely enough, space itself is dynamic. That was Einstein's great

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Speaker 1: revelation that before Einstein, people thought, well, space it's just

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Speaker 1: a background. It's kind of like the stage, and the

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Speaker 1: drama happens on the stage. But it turns out that

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Speaker 1: the stage is part of the drama, that the universe

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Speaker 1: itself is dynamic. Space is dynamic, So it's really the

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Speaker 1: universe is a kind of interplay between matter, energy, and

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Speaker 1: space and time itself. It is mind boggling, though, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It is amazing. That's why I love cosmology. It's it's

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Speaker 1: an amazing thing. And there's so many mysteries out there

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Speaker 1: today because, for example, we know that most of the

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Speaker 1: matter and energy in the universe is consisting of what

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Speaker 1: are called dark matter and dark energy, and only about

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Speaker 1: five percent is the stuff of people and atoms and

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Speaker 1: so forth. So much of the material in the universe

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Speaker 1: is unknown material, and that is the great challenge for

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Speaker 1: the younger generational scientists to figure out what consists of

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Speaker 1: this dark matter and dark energy. They're saying that the

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Speaker 1: James Webb telescope that they've got up there now could

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Speaker 1: it might see the beginning of the first light from

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Speaker 1: the Big Bank. Now that is phenomenal. It is phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: What the James Webb telescope is trying to look for

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Speaker 1: is the first light from stars. So the universe in

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Speaker 1: a sense had two creations. We had the Big Bang creation,

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Speaker 1: which produced this fireball of energy, but that energy rapidly

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Speaker 1: cooled down and as I mentioned, eventually became radio signals,

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Speaker 1: so we can't really see it. We can only detect

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Speaker 1: it with radio telescope the radio hits. But then the

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Speaker 1: second generation of late producing objects came about, and that

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Speaker 1: was the stars, and the first stars came about some

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Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of years after the Big Bang, so

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Speaker 1: we don't really know what the first stars are like,

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Speaker 1: but their speculation that the first stars were absolutely massive,

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Speaker 1: much much much bigger than the Sun and made of

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Speaker 1: hydrogen and they exploded very very quickly, and that's what

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Speaker 1: the James wet Web Telescope is going to try to

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Speaker 1: look for evidence of the first generation of stars and

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Speaker 1: what they were like. Is the universe still expanding, Paul, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the universe remained expanding, and in fact that expansion is

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Speaker 1: speeding up, So it's it's that was an unexpected discovery

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Speaker 1: from nineteen ninety eight that astronomers were trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out what the expansion rate was and they were absolutely

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Speaker 1: stunned to see that the expansion is not slowing down

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Speaker 1: or remaining constant, but actually is speeding up. And that's

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Speaker 1: where the term dark energy comes in. There's an unknown

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Speaker 1: agent out there, an unknown substance which is fueling the

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Speaker 1: speeding up of the universe, fueling the speeding up of space.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit like if you throw a

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Speaker 1: ball up into the air, you expect it to come

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Speaker 1: down at some point, and if you threw it hard enough,

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Speaker 1: maybe it would go into orbit if you were some

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, superhero or something, but you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: imagine that you throw a ball into an air and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden it would start going faster and

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Speaker 1: faster and rock it away towards the stars. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: that's what the universe is doing. It's this unknown agent,

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Speaker 1: this dark energy, is fueling it to go faster and faster,

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Speaker 1: and we really don't know where this would all end

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Speaker 1: if the universe will literally be ripped apart someday. That's

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Speaker 1: one theory called the Big Rip, is that the universe

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Speaker 1: whoa get accelerate faster and faster until everything around us

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Speaker 1: and including Earth has ripped apart eventually. I used to

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Speaker 1: go home crying when I was about twelve or thirteen

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Speaker 1: because my science teacher would say, the star is going

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Speaker 1: to burn out. Our son is going to burn out

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Speaker 1: one day. So I'd go home crying to my parents,

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Speaker 1: all upset that it was over for us, and my

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Speaker 1: dad pulled me aside. Kids can be very sensitive to that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my dad pulled me aside and said, George, that's going

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Speaker 1: to be in billions of years from now, don't worry

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Speaker 1: about it. But but I couldn't comprehend that. I had

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Speaker 1: a physicist on the show a couple of years ago, Paul,

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Speaker 1: who equated the expanding universe like a balloon, and he said,

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Speaker 1: as you look at a balloon being blown up, it

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Speaker 1: just expands and expands and expands. But he couldn't answer

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Speaker 1: the question when I said, but the balloon is expanding

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Speaker 1: into something else that's on the outside of it. So

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Speaker 1: with the universe expanding, what's on the other side of it, Well,

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Speaker 1: you can in some ways think of it as being

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Speaker 1: expanding into a higher dimension, but that dimension is not

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Speaker 1: accessible to us, so it's it's kind of a mathematical dimension.

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Speaker 1: Strangely enough, It's just like if imagine if we didn't

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Speaker 1: have any drills that could drill into the center of

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Speaker 1: the Earth, and you could only walk on the surface

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Speaker 1: of the Earth, and there was no such thing as

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Speaker 1: deep mines or drilling into the earth. Well, we would

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Speaker 1: be stuck on the surface of the Earth and we

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Speaker 1: would say, well, what's you know, what's in the middle, Well,

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Speaker 1: the middle would be inaccessible. So similarly, the universe, if

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Speaker 1: it's curved, or or if it's expanding. It's well, it

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Speaker 1: is expanding, but um, it is it is increasing in

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Speaker 1: a way. That's um. That's employing an extra dimension that

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Speaker 1: is inaccessible to us, a mathematical dimension. Does the universe

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Speaker 1: at this point have an end to it? Well? Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you if you got to the end

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Speaker 1: of the universe, would you like hit a wall? Where

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Speaker 1: would you go there? The current idea about the universe is,

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Speaker 1: even though we talk about the balloon, that's a nice analogy,

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Speaker 1: the current idea is instead of a balloon, imagining as

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Speaker 1: something like an expanding sheet. So imagine taking a sheet

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Speaker 1: and putting dots on it, and the dots get farther

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Speaker 1: and farther away from each other. So that would mean

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Speaker 1: that it's possible that the universe is infinite. We can't

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Speaker 1: see on a certain range because our telescopes can only

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Speaker 1: reach out a certain distance, no matter how no matter

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Speaker 1: how good the telescopes get, they can only see light

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Speaker 1: out to a certain distance because before that it would

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Speaker 1: be too early in time to see the light. It

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Speaker 1: would be if you go out billions of light years,

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Speaker 1: you go back billions of years in time, and eventually

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Speaker 1: you hit the beginning of the universe, so you don't

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Speaker 1: you can't see beyond that. Could there be a region

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Speaker 1: of the universe where there are no stars? There's just nothing?

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Speaker 1: There are Astronomers look at parts of space and there

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Speaker 1: are segments called voids, which are relatively empty parts of space.

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Speaker 1: Now they do have some galaxies, and the galaxies have

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Speaker 1: some stars, but they are relatively empty. And then there

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Speaker 1: are other structures in space like walls and filaments and

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Speaker 1: so where you have more galaxies or galaxies more aligned.

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Speaker 1: So these are really interesting features of the universe that

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Speaker 1: we really we can't explain except by maybe chance assemble

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Speaker 1: these these objects. Did the two physicists that are highlighted

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Speaker 1: in your book with a great Big Bang debate, did

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Speaker 1: they go to their graves with an answer or were

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Speaker 1: they still frustrated? Well, George Gamov coming up with the

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Speaker 1: idea of the Big Bang theory, his version of it

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Speaker 1: was excited in nineteen sixty five when you know proof

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Speaker 1: the radio his proof for the Big Bang theory was announced.

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Speaker 1: But then he thought, well, I should get He thought

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Speaker 1: he should get more credit for it because by then

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Speaker 1: people had kind of forgotten about his contributions to it,

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Speaker 1: which were back in nineteen forty eight. Yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: was the nineteen sixty so other people got more credit

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Speaker 1: for it at that point. But he went to his

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Speaker 1: grave in nineteen sixty eight and sadly enough he met

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Speaker 1: an early desk to alcoholism, but he had liver problems,

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Speaker 1: but he went He went to his grave thinking that

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Speaker 1: he perhaps didn't get enough credit. Hoyle lived a lot

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Speaker 1: longer than that, and he felt that people didn't take

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Speaker 1: his alternative ideas seriously enough. He was a real maverick,

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Speaker 1: and he said everybody else the Big Bang people are

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Speaker 1: kind of like keys following their flock. And in one

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Speaker 1: of his textbooks he has this wonderful picture of all

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Speaker 1: these geese following a lead juice and saying, well, this

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Speaker 1: is what Big Bang theorists are like. They don't they

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Speaker 1: should use their brains and come up with alternative ideas.

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Speaker 1: For physicists. Stephen Hawking, what was his claim to fame?

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Speaker 1: Was it the Black Holes? He made major contributions to

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Speaker 1: the Big Bang theory into Black Calls, and he was

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Speaker 1: the one who showed that the beginning of the universe

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Speaker 1: is a singularity or a point of infinite density. Because

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Speaker 1: before then people weren't so sure about that. They thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe you could run the universe back in time and

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Speaker 1: there could be something before the Big Bang. And he said, well,

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Speaker 1: in his view, the Big Bang started with a point

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Speaker 1: of infinite density and there was nothing before that. I

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Speaker 1: started off saying, Paul that we were going to put

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Speaker 1: God on the side for this discussion. But I keep

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Speaker 1: coming back to the possibility that you can't. What do

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Speaker 1: you think of that? Well, it's as a scientist, I

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Speaker 1: believe in looking at scientific evidence. But there are that said,

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Speaker 1: there are people who are scientists who are very religious

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Speaker 1: or you know, wonder about the mystery of it. And

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Speaker 1: I have great respect for that, just that in my

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Speaker 1: line of work I look at physical evidence rather than

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Speaker 1: faith and rather than spirituality. I think I think those

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Speaker 1: are important, important things, and those are very valids things.

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Speaker 1: But scientists have to kind of say, Okay, well, this

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Speaker 1: is the radio signal that proves the theory, or this

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Speaker 1: is you know, these are the you know, the signals

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Speaker 1: from a telescope that prove the theory. I'm just I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm baffled by the complexity of everything in the universe

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Speaker 1: and the fact that it just all seems to work.

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Speaker 1: Everything seems to work. I mean, just planet Earth for example.

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Speaker 1: You know, you look at the fact that we need

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Speaker 1: water to live, we need oxygen to live, and we've

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Speaker 1: got all these things are here. I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: just it was designed perfectly for us. Well, there's also

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Speaker 1: the idea, an idea called the anthropic print. The anthropic

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Speaker 1: principle says, well, okay, we can look back and say

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Speaker 1: everything is just perfect, but then we have to look

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Speaker 1: at all the other possibilities, Like, look at all the

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Speaker 1: planets out there that might not have the right conditions

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Speaker 1: for life. Well, if we were, if if we were

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Speaker 1: somehow transported to one of those planets, we wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: be around. So the fact that we're here on Earth

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Speaker 1: and the fact that we're in this universe means that

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Speaker 1: the universe needed to have certain conditions to produce intelligent life. So,

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Speaker 1: in other words, but because we're here to talk about

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Speaker 1: the universe, it must have oxygen, it must have water,

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Speaker 1: it must have all these things to produce intelligent beings,

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Speaker 1: and if it didn't, we want to be here to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. So perhaps the fact that all these

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Speaker 1: things are here is in a way a feature of

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Speaker 1: the fact that we are here, Menda is remarkable. That's

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Speaker 1: just it's kind of exciting. Yes, it's it's a very

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Speaker 1: exciting field science. Science is thriving, and the science of

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Speaker 1: the universe is thriving like never before. I remember growing up,

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Speaker 1: when I was little, people would would really fudge on

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Speaker 1: talking about the age of the universe. They would say, well,

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Speaker 1: could be nine billion years, could be fifteen billion years,

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Speaker 1: We really don't know, and how they're very specific, and

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Speaker 1: how do they know what's fourteen plus billion years old? Oh,

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Speaker 1: so about thirteen pointy to be more specific. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: off by a little bit around around fourteen, but fourteen

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Speaker 1: is a good estimate. But they look back, they looked

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Speaker 1: at the expansion rate, so they look and see how

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Speaker 1: fast the galaxies are moving away from each other. And

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Speaker 1: then they run that video in a sense back in

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Speaker 1: time and say, well when would everything I have to remarkable? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is truly remarkable. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more