WEBVTT - Gilles de Rais, Baron Serial Killer of Legend 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.640 Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:11.200 and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised before we begin. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.840 Just a very very exciting announcement. I am so thrilled 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.400 that next July July twenty twenty five, I will be 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:22.599 leading a pilgrimage to the Cotswalds in England to talk 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.360 about the novel The Remains of the Day by kazu 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.400 Ishi Guru, the Nobel Prize winner. First, if you haven't 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.240 read the novel, it is absolutely one of my favorite 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.280 books and I cannot think of a better way to 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.720 appreciate it. Then get a great group of people together 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:39.000 talk about the book. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.320 These pilgrimages are so much fun. We talk about a book, 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.239 there's writing, You go on walks every day, you get 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:49.560 to explore these amazing tiny towns, stay at beautiful locations. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.000 This is actually the third program I've done with this company. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.319 The company is called common Ground. So yeah, if this 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.240 interests you, If you think that next summer you'll want 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.560 to be in a English town talking about a brilliant book, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.040 working on your own writing, and going on walks, you 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.959 should absolutely sign up. I know there's a few spots 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.959 left register common ground Pilgrimages Remains of the Day Danish Schwartz. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.440 The website is actually reading and walking with dot com. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.280 I'm gonna put it on my Instagram, so take a look. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.280 If that excites you, I would just love to be 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.760 there with you. I've had such a good experience doing 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.160 these pilgrimages, leading these tours. They're just so much fun. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.479 It's my favorite thing to do, to talk about literature, 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.760 to work on writing, to go on beautiful walks. I 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.759 can't think of a better way to spend a few 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.800 days in the summer. So if this interests you, there 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.479 are still spots available for the Remains of the Day 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:53.440 pilgrimage in the Cotswaltz. Before we begin today's episode one, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:58.920 brief content note. This episode mentions references to the murder 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.920 of children if that is especially disturbing for you. Obviously 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.800 it's disturbing for everyone, but if that's an issue that 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.720 requires more sensitivity for you, this might be an episode 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:18.160 to skip. Mud and wet garbage squashed beneath people's feet 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.960 as everyone wandered slowly through the town of Nant in France. 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.440 It had rained all night, but luckily the rain had 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:31.560 stopped in time for the day's planned executions. It was 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:38.320 October twenty seventh, fourteen forty, and three convicted men had 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:42.400 been sentenced to death just the day before. No one, 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:47.400 not even the convicts themselves, wished to delay their inevitable fate, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.920 and so the general public of nant all processed towards 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.799 the scaffolds. With all of the quote, ritual, pomp and 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.200 music that characterized the procession. It would have been hard 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:05.160 to miss the parade, and before long the number of 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:11.720 people in the group multiplied, and despite the heinous crimes 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:16.640 supposedly committed by these men, the townspeople walking to the 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:21.799 scaffold actually started praying for the leader of the criminals, 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:28.320 praying for Gille Deray and his salvation. Gille, a baron 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:33.040 in the region, listened intently to those prayers. He was 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.800 an intensely religious man, and his salvation was the most 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.880 important thing to him. He was only able to calmly 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.240 accept the news because he knew that he had been 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:50.280 absolved and salvation would be possible. After all, he had 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.520 done everything the courts had asked of him. He had 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.560 confessed to the crimes and made his confession as lurid 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:02.320 as he could. He even begged forgiveness from the victim's families. 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.800 In response, the Catholic Church had assured him that his 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:11.720 confession lifted the ban of excommunication that had been placed 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:16.040 on him. Execution would send him to Heaven, not hell, 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.360 they said, and even though his reputation on earth was 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:26.000 tarnished beyond repair, Jill knew that God knew the truth. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.600 After walking for two hours, the swollen crowd reached the 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:36.160 site of execution. Jill was ushered to stand alongside his 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.240 two servants and alleged partners in crime, and he had 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:44.039 the noose placed around his neck. Looking out at the 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.279 crowd that had come to watch him hang, he would 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.040 have seen familiar faces. He would have seen people who 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.160 had staffed his homes, who had acted in his pageants 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.840 and plays, and fought under his banner, people he had 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.279 and who had gone on to call for his conviction 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.720 and his death. Jill closed his eyes as he felt 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:12.960 the rope around his neck titan. The calls of prayer 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:17.960 and the juxtaposing shouts of excitement for his death faded 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:22.520 away as Jill turned his mind only toward heaven and 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:27.720 his eternal reward. With a swift pull, the world went black, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:32.640 and Jill Deray the Man died. In that same moment, 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:38.920 Jill Deray the legend was born. This man's story might 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.560 not sound familiar to you. It probably just sounds like 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.599 a generic tale of medieval execution. But if you've read 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:53.600 any particularly gruesome Internet listicles, maybe in honor of Halloween 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:59.000 and spooky season talking about history's scariest figures, you might 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:05.640 have encountered Gildaurey's's name. His story has been misrepresented knowingly 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:11.400 or unknowingly by historians across multiple centuries, and in this episode, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.680 I want to try to talk about what might have 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:21.040 really happened This man, Gilday's has been labeled for centuries 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:26.640 as one of the most prolific and sadistic serial killers 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.760 in history. But it's time we take a closer look 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:36.960 and ask a simple question, was he even guilty? I'm 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:44.840 Dana Schwartz and this is Noble Blood. Over the past 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:49.400 five wow years here at Noble Blood, we've covered many 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:56.040 notorious historical figures, including one Elizabeth Bathory. Across the Internet, 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.640 you will find no shortage of sillacious descriptions of Elizabeth 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.839 Bathory as a ruthless serial killer who would bathe in 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:08.920 her young victim's blood in order to try to remain youthful. 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.080 But as covered in our episode The Blood Countess, the 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:18.320 bathing in blood was a complete fabrication, and it's even 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:24.200 possible that Elizabeth Bathory was entirely framed by political opponents 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:28.840 threatened by her power. Elizabeth's story and the way it 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:33.440 became infamous is not too dissimilar from the story of 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.880 the subject of this episode, Jill Deray. As I mentioned 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.760 in the introduction, he's touted across the web as a 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:46.800 brutal serial killer and pedophile who violated over one hundred 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:51.960 and forty children in medieval France. It's an astonishing and 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:56.320 gruesome claim, and it's easy to understand why it attracts 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.480 so much salacious attention. But in the in tyst of 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.520 diving a little deeper, let's go now to northwestern France 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:09.000 in the fourteen hundreds to examine who Jildray actually was 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.920 and what the circumstances were that led to his long 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:18.280 legacy of infamy. Gildreys was born in fourteen oh four 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:23.360 to parents who both descended from great feudal houses, so 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.640 Jill was set up well from birth, with connections to 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:31.360 powerful and wealthy lineages. In fact, the barony that he 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:35.520 possessed was reputed to be one of the six oldest 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.040 baronies in the Duchy of Brittany at the time. By 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.120 the time Jeel came of age through inheritance and marriage, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:48.000 he controlled a wide swath of land across western France 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:52.800 and Brittany. In essence, Jil was somebody important in the 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.000 world of feudal lords. Jill was born right in the 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.679 middle of the Hundred Years' War, and given that his 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.679 job as a baron was literally to raise men and fight, 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.720 an important portion of his life, especially early on, was 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:12.920 dominated by that long lasting conflict. Even though we've covered 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.080 various aspects of the Hundred Years War here on Noble Blood, 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.320 I think we would all benefit from a brief, brief 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:26.559 summary of the very complicated conflict. In short, between thirteen 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.480 thirty seven and fourteen fifty three, England and France were 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:36.760 engaged in an enduring battle over who actually ruled France. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.760 The war was a defining period for both the English 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.800 and the French, who each found people and battles to 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.120 rally behind and identify with. For the English, think of 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.720 the Battle of Agincorps and King Henry the Eighth. For 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:56.680 the French, one name probably stands above the rest, at 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:01.360 least in terms of the modern popular imagination. Joan of Arc. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.800 Joan of Arc, a teenage peasant girl who said that 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.160 she was given divine guidance from archangels to help save 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.880 the French from English domination, helped lead the French army 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:20.520 to victory in the Siege of Orleans in fourteen twenty nine. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:25.200 Now this is where our protagonist, Gill day factors in. 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.319 Jill fought at the Siege of Orleans and then took 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.680 part in the Loire Campaign with Joan of Arc after 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:37.040 her victory. It was Jill's participation in that campaign that 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.559 led to some of his newly elevated status at court, 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.760 including a new official role carrier of the Holy Water 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:51.640 in the Coronation of Charles the Seventh. Another component that 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:56.400 contributed to Jill's status as an important feudal lord was 0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:03.040 surprise surprise, great wealth. Controlling so much land afforded Jill 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:08.240 a not insubstantial income, and through smart maneuvering and the 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.760 help of his grandfather, Jill was able to grow his 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.560 coffers The biggest move he made was a strategic marriage, 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:21.160 which allowed him to add substantially to his holdings with 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.080 the holdings that he inherited as well as those he 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.960 acquired through marriage. Jill was arguably one of the wealthiest 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:33.560 barons in France, and Jill was not afraid to spend 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:39.320 that fortune. He was known for living lavishly, having extravagant taste, 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:45.000 and spending wildly. He kept a large entourage wherever he went, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:49.000 which included, because Jill was a particular fan of the 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:55.440 performing arts, a herald choir, and several portable organs. When 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.040 he would set up camp in one place or another, 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:03.560 he would often sponsor for the local community. The most 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.560 famous of these plays was The Siege of Orleans, which 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.240 he put on in the city of Orleans on the 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:15.400 sixth anniversary of the battle. More than five hundred actors 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.800 took part in the play, including Jil himself, which depicted 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.480 and celebrated the defeat of the English by Jill's comrade 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.240 in arms, Joan of Arc. In addition to paying all 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.400 of these actors, Jill supplied a never ending buffet of 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:37.200 food and wine to both the actors and play spectators. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:43.120 While he clearly liked to glorify his own past military triumphs. 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:48.599 Jill's also just certainly liked to engage in opulent displays 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.720 of wealth, and it would turn out to be his 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:56.440 overspending and his debts that would one day get him 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:04.120 into trouble. By fourteen twenty nine, Gilldray was a Marshal 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.000 of France. He had achieved a great measure of status 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.880 and money and could retire to his various estates to 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.480 spend his days putting on plays or finding other ways 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.839 to spend his fortune. And if that's all he had done, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.040 this episode would end here. But as you probably know, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.440 we've only just begun. As I alluded to, Gill Durray 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.920 had a habit of overspending, and at a certain point 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.320 he started selling off properties to pay off his debts. 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.360 In fourteen forty he decided to sell the castle of 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.600 Saint Etienne de mer Mort in Brittany. The nobleman who 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.880 bought the castle entrusted the keys to his brother, a priest. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:55.760 Seems like a normal real estate transaction so far, except 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.679 Jill decided that he actually wanted the castle back so 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.880 that he could sell it to his cousin so on 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.280 a Sunday in early May fourteen forty, Jel and a 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:12.640 retinue of sixty horsemen stormed into the parish church where 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.600 the key holding priests was leading mass, and he threatened 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.080 to kill the priest if he did not surrender the 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:26.600 castle to him. The vigilante group, led by Jill dragged 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.280 the priest to the castle gates and forced him to 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.520 open the gates for them. Once the priest opened the 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.360 gates and allowed them to take the castle, they chained 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.800 the priest up in the dungeon and beat him. Now 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:46.840 this assault was a pretty brazen act, but local authorities 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:52.600 might have overlooked it given Jils's status. However, he and 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.800 his gang had accosted a priest, and doing so violated 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:01.160 ecclesiastical immunity, which should have protect did the priest from 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.560 that exact sort of thing from happening. Therefore, the church 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:11.000 had grounds to bring Jill to court. Now, ecclesiastical courts, 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:15.160 as well as the local courts or parliament, operated on 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:19.280 the inquisitorial system at the time, where the judges were 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:24.840 active fact seekers as opposed to impartial referees. So when 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:29.200 the Church did indeed decide to charge Shield they began 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:35.520 an investigation into him. Bishop Jean de Mastrat set off 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.280 on that investigation, beginning in the parish of Notre Dame, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.720 which was home to Jill's main residence. The bishop spoke 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.680 with a multitude of people in the region during the investigation, 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.680 and in doing so he discovered that there were a 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:58.480 number of missing children who were almost all rumored to 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:05.560 have been kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and killed by Jil. Parents 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.200 and acquaintances of these missing children supposedly spoke to the 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:14.920 bishop and confirmed these rumors had been swirling about for 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:20.320 some time now. While local townspeople were willing to accuse Jill, 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.640 they weren't necessarily willing to testify in court. The bishop 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:29.520 was able to overcome that issue once he found former 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.400 servants of Jil's who would testify in court that he 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:39.360 had indeed murdered hundreds of children. The servants claimed that 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.520 Jil forced them to help him murder and then dispose 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.360 of the bodies in a myriad of ways. Whether these 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.320 servants were compelled to testify against their former employer because 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.720 of a sense of justice for the murdered or because 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.360 of the threat of torture by the bishop we can't 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.720 know for sure. During his investigation, the bishop also found 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.680 a magician whom Jill had allegedly employed, and who would 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.840 testify that he had helped Jill participate in alchemy and 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:18.840 seances summoning a demon. While unrelated to the murders, using 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:23.479 alchemy definitely made Jill look all the more guilty. If 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.920 he was willing to transgress against God in one way, 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:32.720 he probably transgressed in others. With sufficient witnesses now at 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:37.080 the ready, the bishop brought charges against Jill for not 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.960 only the kidnapping and abuse of a priest, but also 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:50.040 quote witchcraft, sexual misconduct, and homicide. On September thirteenth, fourteen forty, 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:55.160 the trial of Jill Day began. Actually, the two trials 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.040 of Jil began. While the church had begun the investigation, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.959 the civil courts had also elected to charge him with 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.960 murder and kidnapping, so once he was charged by both courts, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:13.359 the trials proceeded simultaneously as if they were just one case. 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.879 From the moment the case began, Jill went on the offensive. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:23.120 He attacked the judges, calling them simoniacs, an insult back then, 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.600 and questioning their right to try him. The courts did 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:32.119 not take kindly to those insults, and the church promptly 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:38.760 excommunicated Gile. Two days later, Gile returned to court and 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:43.720 made a complete one hundred and eighty degree turn. Now 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:49.560 he was entirely repentant and apologetic. He accepted the charges, 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:54.000 but because he had not yet confessed, the case proceeded. 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.679 The bulk of the trial was hearing testimony. All of 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.840 the testimony provided was from former servants of Jil that 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.280 the bishop had identified in his investigation. Over the next 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.840 several days in court, these former servants, some of whom 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:17.320 were charged as accomplices, detailed Jill's sins, attempted deals with 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:23.000 demons to avoid prosecution for financial woes, making servants procure 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:28.280 victims by kidnapping young children from poor families, and finding 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:34.159 sexual gratification from torturing and killing these children. I won't 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:38.520 go into further detail about the sexual details of the 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:43.760 crimes and murders because that seems gratuitous and unnecessary, but 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:49.320 that's what the testimony laid bare. While the court is 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:54.159 inconsistent with the numbers, historians agree that Jill was ultimately 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.480 accused of killing more than one hundred and forty children 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.040 in the span of only a couple of years. Finally, 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.480 it came time in the case for the court to 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:10.280 torture Jill in order to draw out his much desired confession. 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.400 But Jill stepped forward and proclaimed that he would give 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:21.359 his testimony the unvarnished truth willingly, and so he was 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.040 saved from the type of torture that he was accused 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:30.400 of enacting on hundreds of children. After providing his testimony 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.440 and confession in the privacy of the court, Jill staged 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.160 a rather over the top public confession in the vernacular 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.480 so that any and everyone could hear and understand it. 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.919 On October twenty second. Jill held nothing back, and he 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.359 told the world that what he had done would be 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:56.400 enough to convict ten thousand men. He agreed that everything 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.920 people had testified against him was true, and that he 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.960 derived pleasure from all of the sins he committed. He 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.720 finished by asking God and the parents of the murdered 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:14.520 children to forgive him. His unequivocal confession must have stunned 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:20.200 the audience. I doubt anyone expected someone to openly admit 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:25.280 to such depravity. As soon as Jill Darades confessed, his 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:32.520 trial concluded, and interestingly, his excommunication was rescinded. That's important, 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.000 so we'll be talking a little more about that later. 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.240 Jill and his two accomplices, the two who had actually 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.760 testified against him, were sentenced to be hanged and then 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.960 burned at the stake. As I explored in the opening 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.040 of this episode, the criminals were paraded through not to 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:56.200 their hanging on October twenty sixth, less than two weeks 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.600 after the trial had begun. With his death, Jill Deurey's 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:05.240 name went down in infamy. Historians proclaimed him to be 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.720 a violent rapist and sadistic murderer, the likes of who 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.960 could be compared to Jeffrey Dahmer, and his depravity is 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:18.960 that much more fascinating when juxtaposed with his more youthful 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:24.879 days spent fighting alongside France's literal patron, Saint Joan of 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:31.720 arc No wonder Jills invites such fascination and regularly appears 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:38.119 on lists of the worst serial killers in history. But 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:43.760 what if I told you Jildreyse was possibly innocent. Gildreyse's 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:48.480 legacy is still hotly debated, but some historians have argued 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.800 that he was framed by the Church and guilty of 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.520 no wrongdoings at all. In fact, after a French book 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:01.320 published in nineteen ninety two proclaimed Jills's innocence, a retrial 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.800 was called and the Court of Cassation, the highest court 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:09.960 of appeals in France, exonerated him. So officially, Jill has 0:23:10.000 --> 0:23:13.919 been cleared of all charges, although scholars called into question 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:18.120 the accuracy and research that was used in that symbolic proceeding. 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.800 In addition to the lawyers at the retrial, scholars like 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:27.240 Thomas A. Fuja and Margot K. Juby have pointed out 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.840 a number of issues with the original case against Jill, 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:36.119 as well as challenges to the historical scholarship surrounding the 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.280 French noble that have been accepted as fact. The biggest 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:43.479 flaw in the original trial was that there was no 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:49.520 physical evidence against Jill. His main crime was killing hundreds 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:54.920 of children, but there were no bodies, skeletons, or bones 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:59.439 found that pointed toward Jill as a killer. All of 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:04.800 the evidence leveled against him was circumstantial, entirely testimony from 0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:09.320 people that couldn't be corroborated, so no one even had 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:14.800 proof that the missing children were actually dead. Now it's 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:19.159 true that Jill himself did confess to his crimes and 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:24.040 was quite explicit about the extremely brutal acts he committed 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.560 and the pleasure he allegedly derived from them. So even 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.439 if there were no bodies found, we could believe that 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:36.360 Jil Deray was a murderer because he admitted it. However, 0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:40.080 Thomas A. Fujay made the argument that we should be 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:44.960 at least a little skeptical of that confession. By all accounts, 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:50.080 Jill was an incredibly religious man. Remember how I mentioned 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:54.480 earlier that Jil spent his money with no sense of limit. Well. 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:58.520 As part of his expression of his faith, he bankrolled 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:02.439 a private chapel as well as that chapel's own Dean 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:08.120 Vicker choir, school of music, archdeacons, curates, treasurer chapter, and 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:13.600 a schoolmaster. Beyond paying for this expensive display of piety, 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:18.159 he regularly attended church and showed a devotion to the 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:23.919 cult of Holy Innocence. So fou Jay hypothesizes that after 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:29.320 Jil was excommunicated early in the trial, he began to negotiate. 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.160 He was confronted with the fact that he could very 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:36.199 well be found guilty and if he were killed. At 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:40.000 that point he would no longer go to heaven in 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:43.280 order to save his soul. In the two days after 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:48.440 his excommunication, Jil's agreed to confess if the church would 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:53.520 vacate his excommunication. The church followed through on that promise, 0:25:53.920 --> 0:25:58.359 and after Jill was found guilty, they rescinded his excommunication 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:02.600 and Jill could once again be assured of his entrance 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:07.080 to heaven. Who Jay further argues that Jeals's confession to 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:10.840 the public was so gratuitous because he was trying to 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:15.560 make it seem unbelievable. He made such an incredible confession 0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:20.440 that no one should believe it, therefore saving his reputation, 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.919 at least in theory. Unfortunately, we can't know if the 0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:29.000 townspeople at the time would have interpreted his confession that way, 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:35.359 and if that was Jial's plan, it backfired spectacularly given 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:38.920 that we've accepted the truth of his confession for hundreds 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:43.679 of years. The final reason why some historians now believe 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:48.160 in Jials's possible innocence is that the historical record has 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:54.240 misrepresented his court case. Margot Kgb, biographer of Jill, found 0:26:54.440 --> 0:26:58.679 multiple accusations, like the murder of the three children of 0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:03.920 Jials's valet that don't exist in the original court transcript. 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:09.720 Historians have used examples like that for evidence, when in reality, 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.679 a lot of Gills's narrative has become something of a 0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:19.760 historical game of telephone. So was he innocent? Were the 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:24.560 crimes at least possibly exaggerated? All of that raises the 0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:30.879 question of why why would Gilday's be framed. There's no 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:37.000 conclusive answer, but people have hypothesized a couple of different reasons. First, 0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:40.639 people love a salacious story, which means that it only 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:44.240 makes sense that over the centuries, the details of Gille 0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:49.560 Duay's case would become bigger, more exaggerated, and more lurid. 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:53.919 Aside from that, recall that fewer than ten years before 0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:58.399 Giles's trial, his comrade in arms, Jean of Arc, was 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:03.800 similarly found guilty and executed on charges of heresy. Some 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:07.679 scholars have wondered if his association with the future saint 0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:12.959 might have contributed to his downfall. Others have dismissed that idea, 0:28:13.119 --> 0:28:18.359 instead pointing to more selfish reasons. Giles Deray was a 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:22.280 wealthy man, and if he was found guilty of such 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:26.080 a terrible crime, his lands would not be passed to 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:30.840 his heirs, but would instead be forfeited, and who stood 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:35.440 to benefit from that guilt the very officials who charged him. 0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:38.600 But none of that can be proven, at least not 0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:43.200 with the historical records currently known to us. So unfortunately 0:28:43.240 --> 0:28:46.000 we have to accept that we may never know the 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:50.880 exact machinations that took down one of the wealthiest lords 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:56.080 in medieval France. The historians who claim that Gilderray was 0:28:56.240 --> 0:29:02.000 indeed guilty of those heenous crimes aren't purposefully obscuring the past. 0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:06.240 If you looked strictly at what survived in the written record, 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:11.000 it is extremely easy to come to that conclusion. But 0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:15.600 history is complicated, and who knows what evidence might have 0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:19.520 been lost to the centuries as to the true fate 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:30.520 of Gialdreys's soul. God only knows. Keep listening after a 0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:34.640 brief sponsor break to hear about the colorful literary figure 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:57.800 that Gialdreys might have inspired. Considering Gialdurey's's famous and salacious story, 0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:01.840 it's not surprising that he might have inspired a famous 0:30:01.960 --> 0:30:07.120 literary character, blue Beard. Blue Beard isn't the most popular 0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:10.040 fairy tale story, so if you haven't heard of him, 0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:13.240 Blue Beard is a character from a French folk tale 0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:17.640 that follows this general storyline. Blue Beard is a wealthy 0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:21.120 man who murdered his wives, and even when a wife 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:25.600 found out the sad fate of her six predecessors, she 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:29.400 was doomed to die just like they did. However, his 0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:33.480 last wife is actually able to thwart blue Beard, and 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:37.600 after discovering the gruesome remains of his previous wives in 0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:41.959 the dungeon, she's rescued by her family. They kill blue Beard, 0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:46.400 she inherits the castle and lays to rest his murdered wives. 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:51.440 Although Jill d'erres never murdered his wife, the French baron 0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:57.080