WEBVTT - Fifty Years of Funny w/ James Burrows & Debra Messing 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:04.360 Welcome to Go, Ask Ali, a production of Shonda land 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:08.720 Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. When I have 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.480 been with friends and that happened and I paid my pants, 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.160 I did lose the room, they did leave. I saw 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:16.920 her light up and I was like, I'm just going 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:19.800 to work, but we are here until one of our 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.239 last reps. I was just the one that was meant 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.000 to take care of mamma. It's for me to remember 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.960 every single day is that I always have a choice. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.920 Everyone always has a choice. Whenever somebody says no, you can't, 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.000 or there's no rules for you, or you have to 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.960 look like this, I go. I'll show you. I'll show you. 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.080 Welcome to Go, ask Allie. I'm Alli Wentworth and I 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.440 am over the moon right now because I have James 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:54.360 Burrows on my podcast and he is the greatest sitcom 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.760 director of all time. You may not know his name, 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:01.160 but you've seen it on television credits. For almost fifty years. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.720 He's been at the helm of some of the most popular, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.880 beloved iconic sitcoms since the seventies, starting with The Mary 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.839 Tyler Moore Show, The Bob Newhart Show, and Laverne and Shirley. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.160 He became the resident director on Taxi. Co created the 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.319 classic sitcom Cheers and directed two hundred twenty five of 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.880 the two hundred and seventy episodes. The shortlist of his 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.000 credits include Frasier Friends, Will and Grace, Mike and Molly, 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.120 the pilots of Two and a Half Men, and The 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.240 Big Bang Theory. James Brows has directed more than one 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:37.960 thousand episodes of sitcom television and has earned eleven Emmy 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.800 Awards and five Director Guild of America Awards. And another 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:45.640 feather in his cap was he directed me in an 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:50.800 episode of Will and Grace. I played Grace's gynecologist, and 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.760 I got down and dirty, and now on my tombstone. 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.720 It can say a lot of bullshit, but it'll end 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.480 with the line and she was directed by Jimmy Burrows. 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.640 And just when you thought this podcast couldn't get any better, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.919 after my conversation with Jimmy Burrows, I'll be talking to 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.320 Debor Messing about all the guest stars that came on 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.160 Will and Grace, but mostly to find out what it 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:21.960 was like to have Matt Damon grabbed her ass. Hello, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.480 James Burrows, or as you're called, Jimmy Burrows in the industry. 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.320 First of all, I love your book so much. And 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.399 I love it so much because as a girl who 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.760 grew up in Washington, d C. Around politics, all I 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.160 cared about with sitcoms. It was my life. And I'm 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.400 from a family of many divorces, and I always was 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.280 seated in front of the television watching Mary child More, 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:50.120 Bob Newhart. So everything good in my childhood is shows 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.120 that you worked on or directed. So thank you. I 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.560 appreciate that there's so many great stories in this book. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.520 And I had no idea. I mean, I could do 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.960 a month of pod casting with you. But because I 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.120 have you hostage for the next forty five minutes, I 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:10.560 want to talk about the sitcom. So you very early 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:15.120 on love the concept of the sitcom, right, I did? 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.760 And why is that there's so many other mediums, especially entertainment. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.680 What do you love about the sitcom? Well, it's a 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:29.200 theatrical experience. You're doing a play every week, three minute 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.240 play every week. And I was a theater rat. My 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.760 dad was in the theater. I was brought up in 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.880 the theater. I never wanted to be in the theater, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.000 but eventually when he taught me, when I didn't know. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.200 I was learning. I ended up in the theater, so 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:44.880 I did a lot of theater before I came out 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:49.440 to do sitcoms. So for me, the situation comedy is 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.880 just theater on television. And you have some great stories 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.760 about interning in theater, and you did a lot of 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.560 hand holding too. I did, Yeah, I did. There's the 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.520 way great line in your book that Jabor, who you 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.880 were working with, said she was married multiple times, as 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.440 we all know, and she said something about the ring 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:13.280 was so expensive. I had to say, yes, yes. She 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.480 was one of the important people in my success. It 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.039 was a stage manager on Broadway for a show called 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.360 forty carrotstef Jay Presson Allen wrote, my dad directed it, 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:27.120 and when Julie Harris left, we brought in Jajabor. You know, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.000 Josh is not an actress, she's a presence. So I 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.040 was in charge of putting her in the show, and 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.280 she had to rely on me because I knew all 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.280 the ins and outs of the show and everything like that. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.040 So we kind of became friends and she really liked me. 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.680 She never treated me abusively or anything like that. She 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.760 never slapped me like she slapped the cop. Therefore, when 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.880 she would do stock productions or dinner theater productions of 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.760 Forty Carrots or Blithe Spirit, which was our other play. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.279 They would hire me because I could wrangle her. So 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.120 I got a job running a theater in San Diego 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.760 because of her, and that led to me being out 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.400 in California and reacquainting myself with Mary Tyler Moore. Yeah, 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.520 you've wrangled a lot of people. You've probably wrangled every 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.000 great star I can even think of, in one way 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.400 or another. Yes, I'm not sure we better look up 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.640 the definition of wrangle. Yeah, we should. In my case, 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.760 I'm saying you wrangled in the most positive way with 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:32.600 scaffolding and warmth. Yes. So you decide to write a 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:38.080 letter to Marriage Heller Moore and they hire you based 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:43.000 off this letter, correct, Yeah, but I don't recommend people 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.839 sitting down and writing a letter to Robert de Niro. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.320 I had an experience with Mary. One of my first 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.440 jobs was as an assistant stage manager on an ill 0:05:55.520 --> 0:06:00.560 fated Broadway musical endeavor called Breaks Tiphanies, based on the 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:05.600 RG Hepburn movie and the Truman Campode novella. My dad 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.640 wrote the script and I was hired as he assistant 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.880 to the assistant. My job was I was in charge 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.520 of the stars, Mary Tyler Moore and Richard Chamberlain, who 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.640 were both from California, both doing their first Broadway show. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.320 So I was literally there Gopher and I would make 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.880 sure they had lunch, and I make sure they know 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.240 when the show was running, where they had to be 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.400 to make their entrance and everything like that. And then 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:37.640 my dad was unceremoniously fired from the show by David Merrick, 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.400 and I asked him if when he left, if I 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.760 could stay on this Titanic, and he said sure, and 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.760 so they brought in somebody to replace him, and the 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:52.240 show was horrible. We opened for four previews on Broadway. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.520 The actors were hooted off the stage and Mary would 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.279 come off stage and wrapper arms around me and started 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.480 crying because it was such a horrible experience. I think 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.240 in your book, he said, she would be hysterically weeping, 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.400 saying what have I done to my career? Every night, yes, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.600 and the last night it was a Wednesday night. They 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.680 closed the show early. Wednesday night, I went to Sardis 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.040 for awake and I stayed with her until her husband, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.320 Grant Takers, showed up so I had formed this bond 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.720 with her. So when I was directing Joan Fontaine in 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.720 forty Carrots and Wallingford, Connecticut in a dinner theater or 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.200 at a theater and around I don't remember, I went 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.240 home on a Saturday night and I watched television. There 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.560 was a Mary Tyler Moore show, which was a twenty 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.600 five minute show done in a week in front of 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.520 a live audience, and I was doing a two hour 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.160 show in a week in front of a live audiences. 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:53.840 So I wrote a letter to Mary, which is in 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.520 the book, and Grant called me about two weeks later 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.400 and said, we'd like you to come out to Californ ONNYA. 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.480 We'll pay you a small stipend. We like theatrical directors, 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.840 and you're gonna have to learn the cameras, which I did. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.320 After about four months, I got a gig. So I 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.679 had a relationship with Mary when I wrote that letter. 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.280 All right, so you come out to California. Even though 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.680 you're born in l A. You're a New Yorker. You 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.880 sound like a New Yorker. Yeah, yeah, all the glass 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:28.280 of water, Yeah, go on some coffee, soft core porn exactly. 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:31.880 And so Mary Tyler Moore is the first show you 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.400 work on, and to me, Mary Tyler Moore is one 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:40.160 of the sitcoms that most people have learned the craft from. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.600 And what I mean by that is the characters are 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.960 so well defined, the scripts were so funny. You cite 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.880 some of your favorite episodes in your book. Can you 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.400 give me some color about that time in your life 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:59.840 working on that show? Well, I was scared shitless because 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.000 was the third of the fourth year of the show. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:07.559 J Sandrich, who was my mentor, did the shows, so 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:12.000 they had occasional guest directors, and I was a guest director. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:16.120 And I was thrust into maybe the number three or 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:21.400 four show in the ratings for my first job. And 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.360 it was really scary. The cast was intimidating. The writers 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.680 and Jim Brooks and Alan Burns and Ed and Stan 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.840 d Winburger Stan Daniels were the pre eminent comedy writers. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.480 And so I was a little pitcher from New York 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:39.800 who nobody except Mary and Grant new and so I 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.160 had to play by the rules of the show. I 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.000 I was deferential to the cast, deferential to the writers. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.000 In the moments when I was alone with the actors 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:54.440 blocking the scenes, I would make suggestions in a very 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.040 subtle way of things to try. In fact, in the 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.400 last scene, it's a show about Loue moving into wrote 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.400 his apartment. Mary and Leu are working together and living together, 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.760 which doesn't work out. So the last scene was at 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:12.520 Asner and Mary sitting on suitcases in a goodbye scene 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.360 because he's going to move out. And I said, think 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.120 of this as a cherry orchard, that the two of 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.280 you are leaving the cherry orchard, and what that means 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.360 to you. I don't know where that came from. I 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.120 have no idea, but it was somewhere in my noggin. 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.800 So it was a C minus script that became a 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:35.439 C plus show. On Friday night, we shot at seven thirty. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.199 I was walking to the stage to start shooting and 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.400 Mary came out of her trailer and said to me, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:45.000 we feel our investment in you has worked out. And 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.720 I was I don't remember a lot of the show 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:54.160 because I was so high at that point figuratively, and 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.760 the show was okay. But the next day I got 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.960 calls from the Bob new Heart Show and the Road 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.680 To Show and Paul Sancho because they had a number 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.560 of shows at MTM and they wanted me to direct, 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.920 so I was on my way. Yeah, you were launched. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.080 I was launched. Yeah. You wrote about this too, which 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.840 I think is fascinating for people, especially not in the business, 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.760 that Mary was a show that crafted around one person. 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.800 I mean, she was you know, you laugh so much 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.200 with Mary, but Mary was pretty much the straight guy, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.120 and it was all the characters around her that were 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.280 so full of color. And I feel like that happens 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.880 in Taxi and so many other shows, even Seinfeld, that 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.120 you have the sort of straight lead and all the 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.600 sort of fun happens around them, that the situations they're 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.880 put in. Yeah, well they're called the center of the show. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.120 At actor's eyes are the windows that the audience sees 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:57.439 the show through. So Mary was the center of the show. 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.240 She had a bunch of cooks, or they're not all cooks. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.280 Ed was, you know, not necessarily cook, and Nita was Gavin, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.360 but Ted was a cook, and Val was a cook, 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:12.959 and Chloris was a double cook. And by Mary liking 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:17.080 them and listening to them, that validated him. The same 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.040 is true with Teddy on Cheers. He listens to Cliff 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:26.000 Clen and he gives him veracity. He talks to Coach, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.880 he talks the Frasier, he deals with Diane, same with 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.120 Judd on Taxi and those interplanetary people on that show. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:39.959 So and then if the center is funny, Mary was 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.520 not the funniest. But Mary had great reactions and could 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.280 do a joke. She could do a joke as Judd could, 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.760 as Teddy could, as Eric and Will and Grace could do. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.080 So that's the conduit with which the audience associates with 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.800 the show. So let me ask you a question about actors, 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:00.600 because I hate him me too. Yeah, jeezus, I don't 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.000 think you can teach comedy. I think it's intuitive. Do 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.520 you agree with me? I agree totally. Yeah. And I 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.600 always thought it was interesting going to acting school. I 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.240 was at n y U with people, and I would 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.160 watch people try to do comedy and they just they 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.719 couldn't do it. But you seem to be able to 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:23.320 take these incredibly talented, intuitive people and pull out the 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.520 best of them. And there's something else you wrote in 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.120 the book which I thought was great, was I think 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.920 Chuck Laurie said that he was a musician, and so 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:39.600 he hears comedy musically. So do you also hear a rhythm, 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:44.720 and our pattern when it comes to comedic writing and jokes. Absolutely. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.960 You know, before there were video monitors where you can 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.520 watch the cameras, I would sit and listen to the actors, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.040 so I would listen to the rhythm, and as you know, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.640 you were unwill and grace. I tried to anticipate if 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:03.760 a joke is coming, because a joke is surprised. If 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:05.760 a joke is coming and an actor screws up the 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.599 line on the way to a joke, you hear me 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.400 go blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah to 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:14.000 stop the actor from saying the joke because the setup 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.120 was wrong. And then you know, there's times I closed 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.520 my eyes during rehearsal I hear the rhythm of the 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.520 joke and try to protect the joke because it is 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.480 all about the music. Yeah. I want to talk about 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.840 romance and sexual tension in so many of these shows 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.520 that you've done. So, first of all, cheers, Sam and Diane. 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:35.920 You talk a lot about that in your book, and 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.920 besides Moonlighting, they were kind of the quintessential couple. Will 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.600 they won't they? Will they won't they? How long do 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.840 you keep something like that going, and then you did 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.960 it with Ross and Rachel, and I mean, is there 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.560 do you feel it? Well? When we set out to 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.120 do Cheers, the Charles brothers and myself, we want to 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.800 do a show about a bar, because we all love 0:14:57.840 --> 0:14:59.840 bars and we're all sports fans, so we want to 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.600 do in Boston. But we also wanted another element, and 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.160 we talked about a Tracy Hepburn relationship, a man and 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.880 a woman who had this kind of repartee that was 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:16.280 sexual tension. And the original concept of Cheers was Sam 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.560 working for a woman, which after Shelley left, became Kirstilly. 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.800 But when the boys went off to write the script, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.480 they came back with the character of Diane Chambers, which 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.000 was an extraordinary character had never been on television before. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.160 So you know, there was magic between Ted and Shelley, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.480 so we said we had to get them together. And 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:43.160 we were excoriated because we were before Moonlight. Moonlighting was 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.760 after us, so we were excoriated the critics. I still 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:51.120 have Howard Rosenberg's review the show's over, but we were 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.760 we were true to our characters. We knew we had 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.640 to do an evolving show. So at the end of 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:59.760 every year we got them into a pickle, and the 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:01.520 big any of the next year we got him out 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.200 at a pickle. We did that for five years and 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.120 it was successful because the two of them were so great, 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.960 the writing was so good. Diane Chambers was a character 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.240 that half the men wanted to go to bed with 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.440 her and the other half wanted to kill her, and 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.840 some people wanted to do both. That was it. We 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.080 just said we had to do it to maintain the 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.240 integrity of the show. But you also have to find 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:31.160 the reasons why two characters have that tension. You know, 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.680 she was always quoting Yates and Blake, and he was 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.080 always sort of banging his head against the wall about her. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.080 So what was it about Sam and Diane? Why were 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.960 they so hot for each other? That was provided totally 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.680 by Ted and Shelley. Their chemistry. That's chemistry, that's Ross 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.160 and Rachel. You had the chemistry between Eric and deb 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.240 they were not going to get into bed with one another. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.760 But that kind of chemistry you could only have if 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.760 the two actors have it. I can't give it to them. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.600 If they haven't, we can totally use it and make 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.920 it even better, But they have to have that chemistry. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.200 If they don't, you're dead. So the two of them 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.639 as good actors that they were individually, they were better together. 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.679 That's what you pray for. And go back to the 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:27.720 original Daisy and Lucy. H. You know, chemistry and most 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.480 of the shows you did, there was so much chemistry 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.679 with all the characters, which is what made it so 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.520 successful that in the good writing and and how you 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:37.800 kind of bull you based all of it together in 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:43.800 such an amazing way. First time I've ever heard that. Um. 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.040 And one of the things you talk about is like 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:50.679 sit sitcom burnout and their sitcom burnout with the actors 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.879 when they've been doing it for a long time. You 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.480 even talked about Jamie Farr from mash who played such 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:02.520 an iconic character that he couldn't really work after that. Yeah. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.600 I mean, it's a reason a lot of actors in 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.720 the seventies and eighties, especially movie people, didn't want to 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.240 do sitcoms because they felt it typed them. But there 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:18.000 have been people who have gone on to multiple sitcoms Mr. Newhart, Mr. 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.280 Dance and so, you know, I mean, they were leading men. 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.280 Jamie Farr played a very iconic character that's tough to 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.800 get away from the same as Ted Knight. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.280 I also think of Michael Richards and Cramer. Yeah, it's 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.080 very hard to see him as anything else. And what 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.160 what's it like doing finales? Because the Cheers finale seemed 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.320 god like the end of an error. There was hugging 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.000 and loving and kissing and heads of the studios were 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.760 sitting at the bar in the background. And is it 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.320 hard to do finales? It is because you're bringing to 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.480 an end something that was so wonderful for you, especially 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.400 Cheers at eleven years of that show, and Teddy didn't 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.399 want to do it anymore, and we didn't want to 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:11.200 do a show where Sam was not there. It was sad. 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:17.520 It was so sad that everybody cried. Yeah, yeah, everybody cried. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.080 And you know the same with Will and Grace when 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.359 I did that finale. I did two finales on that show, 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:29.920 luckily enough. And the audience never like finalees because you're 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.639 taking away something that they love. Every Thursday night they 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.639 would tune in for Cheers and you're taking that pacifier 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.840 out of their mouths. So you can't win. When you 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.919 do a finale, a lot of people are gonna hate it. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.800 So I also found that you're in their living rooms. 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.400 They make this connection to these characters in a way 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.240 you can't do it with film or books or anything else. 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.359 I remember once I was having dinner a million years 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.639 ago with my then boyfriend in New York and he 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.840 had a brother and the they're kept talking about these 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.600 people like they were his friends, and he kept saying, 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.679 did you see what George did last night? It was incredible, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.560 And finally I realized he's talking about the show Seinfeld. 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.280 These are not even real people in his life, but 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:19.159 there's such a investment, there's such a vicarious journey that 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.120 everybody has with these people, these characters that for years 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.600 and years and years. Like you said, now they're streaming, 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.640 but then they'd be on Thursday nights on NBC water 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.280 cooler shows, that's what they used to call them. You know, 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:37.359 it was incumbent on you back in the seventies, eighties 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.840 and nineties to watch the episode so you could talk 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.040 about it the next day. There was no streaming. There 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.840 was Beta Max and you had vhs and stuff like that, 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.840 so you could record it. But if you recorded it, 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.080 you were out of the loop the next day because 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.399 you hadn't watched it. I don't think it's like that anymore. No, 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.040 it's not. There's five hundred sixty shows on the air, 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.399 and it's just too other than a Super Bowl. Nobody 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.800 gets together for a good time anymore. No, not at all. 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.280 In fact, my now sixteen year old a couple of 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.680 years ago, when they I don't think it was streaming yet, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:17.159 when they had Friends and Will and Grace reruns TBS 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.200 or whatever it was. I remember she started watching Friends 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:24.120 like they just started, you know, and my little daughter 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.600 would run in and say to George and I don't 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:28.720 say what happens with Rachel and Ross, don't tell me 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:30.639 what happened? You know. It's just so funny to me. 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:35.399 But that is the plus side of the television technology 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.560 now is that people get to rediscover these shows. Yeah, 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.959 Friends is gonna go on forever, probably Seinfeld. They're iconic 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.119 shows and they're still funny. They've always been funny, and 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.720 a new generation of kids are discovering them. God, they're funny. 0:21:51.520 --> 0:22:00.600 There's a lot more to come after this short break 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:07.800 and we're back. I have to talk now about Will 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:12.359 and Grace because I love that show so much. I 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.800 watched it just to somebody ironing her shirts while she's 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.800 watching TV like everybody else. I have since become good 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.800 friends with Debra Messing and with Sean Hayes, but I 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.720 first fell in love with them on television, which is 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:27.439 kind of a surreal thing. Will and Grace, to me 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:32.600 is the greatest show ever. It's not because they talked 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.720 about George and how they wanted to have sex with them. 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.480 But I love the characters, I love the writing, I 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:42.400 love everything about it. And this show had so many 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:47.199 incredible guest stars that if I name somebody, can you 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.600 give me just a line or two about them that's 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.760 a little bit behind the curtiny, I can try. Okay, 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.679 So Molly Shannon a genius, crazy. We do stuff on 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.560 stage I could have never thought of. I let them go. 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:04.720 I let them do what they want to do. She's 0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:08.639 amazing and really physical, right, yeah, very physical. And she 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:15.000 played Val the clepto crazy. Yeah. Okay. Michael Douglas, the 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:17.720 gay detective. If you ever get to see that show, 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.480 watch the dance. He does a dance in the club 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:26.240 with Eric. It's a straight man dancing. He was great. 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.840 He was great. You know what's great about him, it's 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:34.320 a guy who came from drama, So Michael Douglas, you 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:36.639 didn't see him in a lot of comedy, and the 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:39.760 fact that he could get those jokes. That kind of 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:43.480 actor is what I love. Those guys who you don't 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.160 think are funny and all of a sudden are funny, 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:49.240 which leads me to Glenn close. Same thing with her. 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:54.000 She played this kind of crazy Anna Leebawitz is and 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.880 she was hilarious, as with all of them, including you. 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.320 I take them aside when they begin to show and 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:03.480 I say, I hope you're going to play with us, 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.160 because we have a lot of fun here. When you're 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:13.920 in rehearsal with these four actors, they're at okay, don't 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:17.239 get used to A A because when that audience comes in 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.639 there they're going a D. And if you don't go 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:23.560 to A you're going to get thrown out with the 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:28.520 bathwater because they will demolish you. So I tell all 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.560 of them, including you and Glenn and Matt Damon and 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:34.520 Michael Douglas, I say, Will and Grace is a heightened 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:38.040 comedy show. You gotta play on that level otherwise you're 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:40.240 going to be on the cutting room floor. So no, 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:45.679 I learned that, Yeah, I was playing Grace is kynecologist, 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:50.000 and I got under the sheet and I was face 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:52.520 to face with her vagina, So I like, I came 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:55.879 to play. I knew that now, you said, Matt Damon, 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.080 my favorite episode is a chorus Lie. Matt Damon h 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:05.560 was so game to play in that episode. I mean, 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:08.760 the story itself is hilarious that the straight guy pretends 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:10.640 to be gay so that he can get a free 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.800 trip to Europe with the gay chorus, So already it's 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.919 a funny premise. Then Matt Damon comes and he is 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:23.840 so so funny and even physical, you know, when he's 0:25:23.920 --> 0:25:27.040 trying to be gay with Sean Hayes's character and they're 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:30.240 doing the little dance and then I think one of 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:33.719 the best repartee in comedy is when Matt Damon and 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:38.000 Sean Hayes are at each other's throats and Sean Hayes 0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:41.159 starts whipping off these quick like how do I know 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:42.959 you've never seen the gym? Who did you date? It goes? 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:44.600 I never go to the gym. I work out at home. 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.120 You know I'm not doing it justice, And I think 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:50.360 you have it actually in your book the dialogue. Then 0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:53.280 there's a great scene with Messing when he's on the 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:57.600 couch with Messing trying to out it, trying to out 0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:01.320 him as straight. Yeah, and he said he said something 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:06.720 about her rocking ass, rocking ass, Yes, and grabbed him 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:10.480 this rocking ass, and they're all over each other, I 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:13.800 mean all over each other. It was fantastic, all right. 0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:18.919 Sydney Pollock amazing. Sydney Pollock who plays Will's father, blythe 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:26.440 Danner perfect as the Icy Wasppeball, John Slattery as Will's brother, 0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:30.600 I mean John Clice, Alec Baldwin, Patrick Dempsey. And then 0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:34.520 Harry Connick had this little arc or long arc. It 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:38.199 got much longer with Grace as the love interest in 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:41.720 then husband. Was he a surprise to work with I 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:43.719 believe it or not. I had worked with Harry before 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:47.040 you had. Yeah. Harry Connick was in an episode of Cheers. 0:26:48.119 --> 0:26:54.720 He played Woody Harrelson's cousin who was infatuated with Rebecca 0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:57.960 with Kirstie Alley. I don't know how old he was 0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:01.000 usually a kid then, Yeah, but he he was wonderful. 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:04.720 He was wonderful. And then I did the episode of 0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:09.280 Friends where Matthew Perry was locked in the A T. M. Right, 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:12.880 with Jill Goodacre. I'm trapped in an a t M. Yes, 0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.760 So I've known Harry longtime and Harry was so game 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:22.520 to play and so sweet and so nice and funny, 0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:26.639 because if if Harry wasn't funny, he wouldn't have been back. 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:30.560 So yeah, he was really funny. And I'm friends with 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:32.879 Harry and Jill and she brings that episode up all 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:37.640 the time because you know, people still stop her for that. Really, Yes, 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:41.520 all right. Tell me about Kevin Bacon Unwill and Grace. 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:43.480 You had known him in New York a little bit. 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:47.760 He was a bartender at the All State Cafe, which 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.720 in the late sixties and early seventies before Ali was born, 0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:56.280 Thank you. I used to frequent. I had a number 0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:59.080 of friends there. It's a big influence on me for 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:03.280 cheers because we had a norm in that bar. And 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.760 then Debbie, my wife, Debbie and I we had a 0:28:05.760 --> 0:28:09.639 house in Millbrook, New York, and Kevin and Kira have 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:13.360 a house just outside of Menia. So we were at 0:28:13.359 --> 0:28:16.840 the Old Drover's Inn, which was a great restaurant, and 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:19.920 Kevin and Kira came in and I went up to Kevin, 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:21.800 I said, you remember me, I remember you from the 0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.399 All State said yes, yes. I said, look, the character 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:29.760 of Jack has been infatuated with stalking Kevin Bacon, would 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:32.760 you consider coming on the show? And it was as 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.520 quick as yes. Ever, so we brought him out to 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:39.560 do one show and he was wonderful. Yeah, very funny. 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:42.360 And whose idea was it to do the footloose dance? 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.400 Was that in the script? Yeah, we're gonna take from everywhere. 0:28:46.440 --> 0:28:51.360 I mean, that show was totally contemporary humor and humor 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:54.560 in the news, and Cheers was completely the opposite. We 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.280 never did a reference joke or anything like that. We 0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:00.280 never did that kind of pop culture joke on Will 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:02.800 and Grace. We did them all the time. One thing 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.360 about Will and Grace, which has been I mean, not 0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:08.200 only has it been a show that entertained us solved 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:12.720 for years, but and Biden said it probably educated the 0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:18.720 American public more about gay rights, gay issues than anything else. 0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:21.680 Isn't that correct? Isn't it Biden that said that, Yeah, 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:24.520 that's correct. I have never done a show that took 0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:28.400 a stand or proselytized. All my shows are to amuse. 0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:31.680 I leave that to Norman Lair, who's a genius. Said, 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:35.320 but we had this show and when Well and Grace 0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:37.960 is sent to me, it was to me a sitcom 0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:40.240 that happened to have a gay characters. It was not 0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:45.520 about advancing an agenda. But what happened with that show 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:48.480 was that people started to watch it because it was 0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:52.120 so funny and oh, I see, so they're gay character. 0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:55.440 They're not threatening, they're fine. You know, I'll continue to 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.000 watch it because it's so funny. And the example I 0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.000 talk about that she the deal for me for how 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:04.520 important the show was was. I used to drive carpool 0:30:04.600 --> 0:30:08.080 for my seventh grader. When Will and Grace is on, 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:10.240 I would get the four kids in the car and 0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:15.200 start driving to school, and invariably, because it was Thursday, 0:30:15.240 --> 0:30:18.160 invariably one of the kids would say. The thirteen year 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:21.080 old would say, what's unwilling Grace tonight? So I knew 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:26.360 that these kids were picking up the vibes of that 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:29.880 show at an early age and saying, Wow, gay people 0:30:29.880 --> 0:30:33.600 aren't that bad there. They're just like us and they're funnier. 0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:38.160 That's when I knew that the show was making a 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:42.080 mark in that world. Although we never we dealt with 0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.920 a couple of issues, like you know those camps that 0:30:45.000 --> 0:30:48.440 try to mind bend you to anti gay camps. We 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:52.960 dealt with that with Jane Lynch, Jane Lynch and Andrew Reynolds, 0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:56.960 and we did a scene with Sean and his grandson, Yep, 0:30:57.560 --> 0:31:00.080 who wanted to be gay and Sean was talking to him. 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.360 And but we didn't hit people over the head with 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:05.280 that because we knew what our lot was and we 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:07.760 had to be funny. You know, I had a great time. 0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:10.680 It's literally the funniest show I ever did. It's not 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:13.800 my favorite. My favorite is Cheers because I I gotta 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:17.360 go created credit on it. But Will and Grace last 0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:21.520 per page was was hysterical, the best. And I have 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.160 to ask you about because we're talking about Will and 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:28.400 Grace about Stanley Walker, Oh my god, because Karen Walker 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:33.200 was the most fucked up person, for lack of better words, 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:37.360 fucked up character that there ever was. But Stanley who 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:40.360 made the decision to never see him. I was always 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:43.680 worried that at some point they were going to show him. 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:47.320 But you you can't know. It's I mean, we were 0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:49.320 at the original months. You know, you go back to Calton, 0:31:49.320 --> 0:31:53.160 the doorman on Rhoda, and you go back to Vera, 0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:57.960 Norm's wife and cheers and Maris David Hyde Pierce wife 0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:02.320 and sometimes it's better her not to see that person 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:06.360 and let it be a figment of your own imagination. Yeah, 0:32:06.440 --> 0:32:10.000 because you could do jokes about it that are not real, 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:15.120 and you don't confirm it or you don't see it. 0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:19.280 It's just a new audience's imagination. You did see Varia's 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:23.520 legs once, right, believe it or not. Vera Norms wife 0:32:23.640 --> 0:32:27.959 was played by Bernadette Burquette, who is George's actual life 0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:32.000 so Burne would show up occasionally. Right. I was going 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:35.120 to ask you how do you deal with things like pregnancy, 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:39.760 because you guys didn't acknowledge Debra Messings pregnancy at all. 0:32:40.720 --> 0:32:44.520 You just said she was eating a lot. Yeah. Well, 0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:45.840 the first one we had to deal with was the 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:49.400 Diane Chambers because Shelley got pregnant year three, right, So 0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:52.840 she has a tray in front of her belly. The 0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:55.440 bar had slats in it which raised the actors up 0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:57.960 behind the bar. So we took the slats out so 0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:00.719 Shelley would be behind the bar. You didn't see her 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:03.920 belly with Messing, we did things to cover it up. 0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:07.440 We had her sitting a lot. We were careful. We 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:09.840 don't want Sam and Diane to have a baby, and 0:33:09.880 --> 0:33:12.800 we don't want to stay with somebody else, and with Messing, 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.760 we didn't. We didn't want to deal with that. So 0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:18.240 although they did have babies at the end, but not 0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:23.360 not during. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by all the mechanics 0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:26.480 of that, of all of a sudden, characters disappearing or 0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:28.840 people getting pregnant, you know, the stuff that happens in 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:33.040 real life that you have to somehow put in Make 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:37.840 believe life. One other thing, Ria Ria had three kids 0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:42.680 on Cheers, but she could be pregnant because that was 0:33:42.720 --> 0:33:45.840 the whole character thing. However, if we know Reese was 0:33:45.840 --> 0:33:48.200 gonna have three children, we wouldn't have started out with 0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:53.360 she had four children in the first year. So, as 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:55.120 I say in the book, I think there are forty 0:33:55.240 --> 0:34:00.000 babies born to the cast and crew on I had three, 0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:04.280 you know, Teddy at two, and George had free I 0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:08.759 think it was crazy. And you have a bunch of girls, right, 0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:13.080 I have four daughters, four daughters and no sons. I 0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:16.840 have a grandson. So okay, yeah, well I have to 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:19.920 tell you that there are two episodes that I can 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:24.120 think of that somehow relate to my husband, George Stephanopolis, 0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:28.799 and with Friends, the episode is called the one with 0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:32.960 George Stephanopolis, and I was not married to George at 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:36.720 the time. I didn't know him, but that is something 0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:40.440 that seems to surface all the time. And now that 0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:44.280 we have two daughters, they've seen that episode of Friends 0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:47.840 and screamed when they saw it the first time because 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:51.799 jen Aniston and Courtney Cox are referring to how hot 0:34:51.840 --> 0:34:54.400 their father was, and I truly thought they were going 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.359 to have a meltdown. And the other time was I 0:34:57.400 --> 0:35:00.759 was pregnant with our second daughter. I was sitting in 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:03.520 bed with our three year old and I was watching 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:08.840 Will and Grace and Sean and Eric, the two lead actors, 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.200 go into a bar in Vermont, and the bartender says 0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.239 to both of them, what can I get you? And 0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:18.799 they both said in unison, George Stephanopolis, to which my 0:35:19.160 --> 0:35:21.239 three year old daughter turned to me and said, why 0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:24.240 do these guys want daddy? And I thought, Jesus Christ, 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:26.560 how am I going to explain this to them? Which 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:29.040 I think is really funny because I have lots of 0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:34.200 little inlets that lead me to you friends or you know, 0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:37.640 people that I've worked with, but the George Stephanopolis thing 0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:40.000 seems to come up a lot, especially when I was 0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:42.520 reading your book and thinking about all the shows that 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:49.319 you've done. All right, so James, you get to ask 0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:52.399 me a question now, Okay? Why do I only see 0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:58.080 your head? Comedy is you have to see the comedy? 0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:01.680 You have to see hands see. People at home won't 0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:04.960 know this, but all I see of Ali Wentworth is 0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:09.040 her head and humor. If you watch my shows, I 0:36:09.040 --> 0:36:13.040 shoot from the waist up because arms and hand gestures 0:36:13.080 --> 0:36:16.560 are funny. Why do I only see your head? You're 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:20.600 absolutely right? I could answer I'm pregnant. That won't work. 0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:24.360 I had another question for you. Yes, who do you 0:36:24.400 --> 0:36:30.880 like better? Me and Michael Smith? Thank you? Hands down? 0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.520 Thank you so much for doing this. Oh, thank you. 0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:39.920 I have to tell you I really love this book. 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:44.040 I love it. It was like a delicious dessert. I 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.799 couldn't get enough of it. Well, I I appreciate it, 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:50.200 and best to you and your girls, and I get 0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:54.080 them to continue to watch Will and Grace. Please. Best 0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:58.479 you needs some money? Oh God, let's take a little 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:00.839 break and when we come back, we're messing. Will give 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:03.600 us the inside scoop on Jimmy Burrows and so many 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.640 of the dazzling guest stars Will and Grace hosted over 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:17.080 the years. Welcome back. I'm so excited to have my 0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:20.000 very good friend here to dish about the eleven years 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:23.840 she worked with the great director James Burrows. Deborah Messing 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.680 played Grace Adler on the NBC sitcom Will and Grace 0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:30.960 for eleven seasons, for which she received seven Golden Globe 0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:35.160 Award nominations and five Primetime Emmy Award nominations and a 0:37:35.280 --> 0:37:39.040 win and Emmy win for Outstanding Lead Actress in a 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:43.320 Comedy Series. And Messing's film work include, among others, Along 0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:46.279 Came Polly, The Wedding Day, The Women, and she has 0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:52.960 two movies out this year of Bros. And Thirteen. As 0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:56.960 you know, Deborah, I did a podcast recently with Jimmy Burrows, 0:37:57.160 --> 0:38:00.400 who everyone says it's the greatest director of all time. 0:38:00.560 --> 0:38:04.280 But can you tell me why Jimmy Burrows is the best. 0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.920 I think the thing that makes him unique is that 0:38:08.560 --> 0:38:13.399 he thinks of comedy as music and he would rather 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:17.800 hear the language than see it. And you will actually 0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:20.720 see him on show night just walking back and forth, 0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:24.920 not even watching us acting, just listening and when something 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:28.279 doesn't sound right in his ear, he goes go back, 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:33.200 go back, and literally, I've never seen anyone else in 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:35.799 my entire career do that. I think a lot of 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:38.680 that comes from the fact that he came up in 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:44.319 the theater, and I think that kind of musicality was 0:38:44.440 --> 0:38:49.440 understood very young because his father did huge Broadway musicals. 0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:52.759 So I think that that's all sort of genetic. But 0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:58.200 I think also he trusts actors. There is a weird 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:03.400 thing that happens. I can speak to network television, A 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:08.279 weird thing that happens when there are between six and 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:15.799 ten executives for every run through, and everyone has lots 0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:19.839 of opinions. We only rehearse four days. Every single day, 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:24.200 they completely rewrite the script based on what is discussed 0:39:24.239 --> 0:39:29.360 after a run through, and what is the norm is 0:39:29.400 --> 0:39:36.560 that the director stay silent and the executives talk about, Okay, 0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:39.080 that's not good for this character. We don't like where 0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:41.400 that's going, so you should change this, you should do this, 0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:46.240 you should change this. Speaking to the writers, Jimmy Burrows 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:50.960 does not allow that to happen on his set, and 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:54.640 it's it's only because he's a legend that he has 0:39:54.760 --> 0:40:01.239 gained the respect and the right to say a I've 0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:06.239 got this back off. He tells the show runners from 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:10.680 the very beginning, you are the creators. I am here 0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:15.800 to bring your creation to life. So there's no ego 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:21.320 power struggle from the very beginning, which obviously Jimmy Burrows, 0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:26.680 as you know, is an imposing person. But what happens 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:30.920 with him is he says, you know what, the cast 0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:34.560 knows these characters, and I trust their instincts more than 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.400 the executives. So I want to hear from the actors 0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:42.200 after every scene, what worked for you, what didn't work 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:46.600 for you? And that made it much more of a democracy. 0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:54.600 It makes the whole creative endeavor much more fulfilling to 0:40:54.840 --> 0:41:00.319 actors because we are invited to the collaboration. The first 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:04.960 show I did, it was not that and I literally 0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:08.560 just felt like a dancing monkey. Yeah, because usually a 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:12.239 directors it's just about blocking, and you know they don't 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.759 consider the acting part of it. But let me ask 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:17.799 you this, When you heard Jimmy Burrows laugh when you 0:41:17.840 --> 0:41:20.879 were doing a scene, did it make you feel good? Oh? God? 0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:25.279 That was the highest, by far, the pinnacle of what 0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:29.240 you could possibly accomplish because if you made Jimmy Burrows laugh. 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.960 You know, I called him Papa Jimmy, and he called 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:38.799 me juicy. But why why because he called me the 0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:45.880 Jewish Lucy. So he called me juicy. Oh my god, 0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:49.480 that has to stick. That's such a good name. Okay, yeah, 0:41:49.719 --> 0:41:54.959 go ahead, juicy okay. And so you know the fact 0:41:55.000 --> 0:41:59.040 that he did every single episode, you really feel like 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:02.040 a sense of owner ship and you feel like you 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:05.319 are in partnership with Jimmy. And like you said, he's 0:42:05.400 --> 0:42:08.200 kind of got a Papa bear thing to him too. 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:11.600 He does so that if you inevitably you're going to 0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:15.400 be struggling with something, you're gonna be struggling with something 0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:17.960 that you read and on the page and you know 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:21.560 it's supposed to be funny and you cannot figure it out. 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:24.080 So you could go up to him and say, Jimmy, 0:42:24.160 --> 0:42:27.080 I'm I'm lost. I don't know why this isn't working 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:29.520 in my mouth. I don't know why this isn't working 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:33.320 in my body. He then sort of watches the scene 0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:39.480 and he finds ways to punctuate with physical comedy mhm, 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:44.000 or just with movement on stage. You know, I didn't 0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:48.840 realize that literally just one person walking from the door 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:53.880 to the kitchen could be hilarious until I started working 0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:58.760 with Jimmy. And by the way, I mean Sean, of course, 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:03.759 and hilarious the physical But you you juicy. I mean 0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:07.320 I can name off the top of my head scenes 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:11.160 in which the physicality of what you did made it 0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:13.160 all work. I mean, even if you're standing on a 0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:17.279 bed with Jeremy Piven and you know, and you're like, 0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:20.920 we're gonna get it on. I mean, you were the 0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:23.600 genius of that. I'm sorry, I mean your boobs with 0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.919 the water spurting out of it. I mean you had 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:31.040 all the lucile ball asked physicality to that, And that 0:43:31.239 --> 0:43:33.000 is one of the things I think is a genius 0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:36.640 about Jimmy Burrows is that he let you guys use 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:41.200 all that physicality, which made what would be it otherwise 0:43:41.239 --> 0:43:44.560 not so funny scene hilarious. Now I also have to 0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:48.080 ask you this, because you were pregnant with Roman while 0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:51.279 you were shooting Will and Grace. How much fun did 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:55.920 you and Jimmy Burrows have hiding your pregnancy. I wouldn't 0:43:55.960 --> 0:44:01.440 say it was fun, Okay, you were always behind a table. 0:44:02.080 --> 0:44:05.480 I was always either behind a table, behind a plant, 0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:09.040 holding a laundry basket, sitting on the sofa holding a 0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:14.560 pillow over my stomach. I found it frustrating because I 0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:18.200 couldn't be physically free, right, you know, so I was 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:21.040 very hemmed in. And also I loved how they just 0:44:21.120 --> 0:44:25.759 made it that you were eating too much. Yes, yes, yes, 0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:29.600 which was true to Grace. You know, Grace loved to eat, 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:33.320 so of course it was perfect. But the thing, what 0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.440 what you were saying about him allowing the physical comedy. 0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:40.800 Something happened. I think this is indicative of his credo. 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:45.120 We were doing the pilot, and towards the end, when 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:49.080 I'm in a wedding gown and my my wedding falls apart, 0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:52.719 and I visit Will in his office late at night 0:44:52.800 --> 0:44:56.359 by himself after we fought, I come in to reconcile, 0:44:56.880 --> 0:45:00.919 and I walk in and closed the door and walk 0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:04.640 over to him very slowly to try and like be 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:08.359 gentle about it. And my veil gets caught in the 0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:13.439 door and I keep walking, so I'm ninety degrees going 0:45:13.600 --> 0:45:18.960 backwards with my veil in the door. I remember, and 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:21.080 I remember the first time I did that. He was like, 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:24.319 oh no, no, no, no, no, that's too far. And 0:45:24.360 --> 0:45:26.920 I was like really, and he was like yeah, I 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:29.239 think yeah. And I was like, you know what, I 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:31.879 think I could make it work. I think we could 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:35.000 get the laugh and then I could come out of 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:38.759 it in a very subdued way so that we could 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:42.479 get right back into the seriousness of the scene. And 0:45:42.520 --> 0:45:45.920 he was like show me, and I did, and he 0:45:46.120 --> 0:45:51.080 was like, you're right, He's like, do it. And from 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:54.760 that point on he trusted my instincts for physical comedy. 0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:58.440 And we were so lucky with our the writing staff 0:45:58.560 --> 0:46:03.080 because they wrote towards our strengths, they wrote for us, 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:08.000 so it was really the best of all possibilities. But 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:10.640 you know, when we came back for three years a 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:13.680 couple of years ago, we all sat around the table 0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:16.200 and was like, do we want to do this? Are 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:17.840 we going to do this? Why are we going to 0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:21.640 do this? It was a very in depth conversation, and 0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:24.399 the one thing just off the bat that all four 0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:27.080 of us agreed on we will not do it without 0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:32.160 Jimmy Burrows. That says a lot too. Yeah, alright, so 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:34.680 we're gonna have a little fun now. Because one of 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:37.359 the things that I talked to Jimmy about was One 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:40.799 of my favorite episodes is when Matt Damon tries to 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:44.880 join the Gay Man Choir and pretends to be gay 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:49.560 and he's straight. And there's a scene where Sean sends 0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:53.120 you in to try to out him as a straight person, 0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:55.920 and you guys are making out on the couch and 0:46:56.000 --> 0:47:01.640 he grabs and he goes with this rocking ass. Jimmy 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:04.839 and I were laughing about this scene. How much fun 0:47:04.960 --> 0:47:07.080 was it because it looked like you were having fun, 0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:11.000 were having fun? Um, yes, I was having a lot 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.279 of fun. I have to say that Matt Damon was 0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:16.880 probably one of the greatest guest stars we've ever had 0:47:17.160 --> 0:47:20.520 because he was so game and at that time he 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:23.160 had been playing a lot of really serious film roles 0:47:23.840 --> 0:47:26.200 and so when he came on, we didn't know what 0:47:26.239 --> 0:47:28.719 to expect. We were like, is he funny? Can he 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:31.960 be funny? And I think in me there was a 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:35.600 kind of reverence towards him. So I was a little 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.840 timid to like throw myself on the couch on top 0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:44.360 of him, and it became clear that he knew the 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:48.040 playground he was playing in and he was like, I'm 0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:50.799 here to play. So we just went for it and 0:47:50.880 --> 0:47:54.320 that was all improvt like that rock and ass all that. 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:57.920 That was all that just came. It was so good. 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:00.879 I mean, that's what Jimmy said. He said, when guest 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.680 stars came on the show, they had to be able 0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:06.760 to play with you guys. It was not gonna work 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:09.120 if they didn't play. And it was amazing because, like 0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:13.000 Michael Douglas also was one of my favorites of all time. 0:48:13.600 --> 0:48:19.719 The dancing that awful, really just horrible dancing with Will 0:48:19.800 --> 0:48:23.319 At the end, I was like, you know what, this 0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:27.400 is a playground for actors who never get to be silly, 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:31.880 never get to take risks, and never get to play. 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:35.560 And as a result, we get to see some of 0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:40.000 our favorite actors and actresses doing things that we never 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:43.880 imagined that they could do. And I think that's what 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:47.560 also made it particularly special. Well, and you can tell 0:48:47.760 --> 0:48:51.320 how much fun they're having. So while we're talking about 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:55.719 guest stars, I'm gonna name a guest star and just 0:48:55.880 --> 0:49:01.560 give me one line of memory anything. Okay, So I 0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:05.160 know what you're gonna say this one. Harry Connick Jr. Oh, 0:49:05.239 --> 0:49:09.319 the love of my life. Yes, yes, yes, I knew 0:49:09.320 --> 0:49:14.440 you were going to say that I knew it. Harry, 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:18.240 the one they got away. God, I loved him so much, 0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:22.520 so you obviously hated kissing him. It was awful. It 0:49:22.680 --> 0:49:28.560 was really really uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean we have to 0:49:28.680 --> 0:49:32.319 also just put a little note to this that I 0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:36.040 lost count of how many people I kissed over eight years. 0:49:36.480 --> 0:49:40.279 Excuse me. Yeah it was a lot of people. So 0:49:40.600 --> 0:49:44.239 and women too, if I recall, Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, 0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:46.120 So I didn't realize you kissed that many people, but 0:49:46.200 --> 0:49:51.400 now that they think about it, yes you did, all right, Okay. 0:49:51.440 --> 0:49:54.359 Another of course favorite, and the two of you were 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:59.520 genius together, was Molly Shannon, who played the cliptomaniac crazy neighbor. 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:05.520 You know what, I am still in physical therapy trying 0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:11.760 to recover from working with her. Really, yo, my god, 0:50:12.200 --> 0:50:16.400 she injured me every single time she came on the 0:50:16.480 --> 0:50:20.920 show because she was just out there. She was like, okay, 0:50:21.000 --> 0:50:24.719 let's go. And I was known on set as being 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:29.320 the person who who didn't really have restraint and would 0:50:29.360 --> 0:50:33.920 like throw myself on Sean and Eric and I didn't 0:50:33.920 --> 0:50:36.680 know my own strength. And so you had these two 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:41.320 people who were both completely out of control and totally 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:47.800 a slave to being funny coming and hitting, and she 0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:52.880 she kicked my ass. I remember. I mean, I love that. 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:56.080 We're talking about how crazy Molly Shannon's character was. And 0:50:56.120 --> 0:51:00.640 there's a siren in the background of your apartment, which 0:51:00.680 --> 0:51:03.880 I can only imagine is Grace calling to get somebody 0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:07.080 to come pick her up, which is a perfect soundtrack 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:09.600 to what we're talking about. Ahead it is. It was 0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:12.520 something where we could not wait until she came back. 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:16.160 It was always fun. It was always funny. I do 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:20.440 remember one time towards the end of the first run 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:23.840 when she was coming back again and I said to Jimmy, 0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:25.640 I said, I'm I'm a little nervous. She's going to 0:51:25.800 --> 0:51:32.840 hurt me. Did Molly know that? Yes, yes, of course 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:35.279 she did. That's so funny. I love it because I 0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:37.720 went up to him like, Molly, don't hurt me. Don't 0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:43.279 hurt me. Okay, how about Glenn Close, who played like 0:51:43.320 --> 0:51:47.319 an Annie Lebowitz type photographer, because oh, that was one 0:51:47.320 --> 0:51:50.480 of the funniest episodes where she's taking pictures of you 0:51:50.600 --> 0:51:54.160 and Will and oh yeah, your reactions to her, Oh 0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:58.040 my god. Oh yeah. I mean, first of all, you 0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:02.040 know icon right, and I'm like the woman from fatal 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:07.160 attraction is undressing me and giving me a deep, deep, 0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:13.520 sexy kiss. Yes, and I'm like, what's happening. I could 0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:18.840 not believe it. I really did not expect her or 0:52:18.920 --> 0:52:21.960 see any inkling that she had it in her to 0:52:22.120 --> 0:52:25.960 go that far. So she really kissed you, She really planted. 0:52:26.080 --> 0:52:30.279 Oh I think she was my most passionate kiss with 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:35.719 a woman. Well look at that, miss Deborah. That's right. 0:52:35.880 --> 0:52:38.440 And I had never kissed a woman before Willie Grace, 0:52:38.640 --> 0:52:43.640 and she she was the most aggressive of all of them. 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:47.239 And your reaction in that episode when she plants that on, 0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:50.840 your reaction is so genius that, now that I'm thinking 0:52:50.840 --> 0:52:54.000 about it, it was really you in shock. It was 0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:57.880 me in shock. It was me in shock. She didn't 0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:01.399 do that in rehearsal. Makes me love her even more. 0:53:01.840 --> 0:53:06.080 I know what about Sydney Pollock and blythe Downer, who 0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:11.200 played Will's parents, Because when you and blythe when you 0:53:11.239 --> 0:53:13.759 were just scrappy Grace and she'd be like, Grace, do 0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:16.239 me a favor and hand you know. Oh, it's so 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:20.480 good just the juxtaposition of your characters. I mean, I 0:53:20.719 --> 0:53:24.239 had already been like an uber fan of hers from 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:28.120 the theater prior to this, so having to two of 0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:30.880 them come in with so heavy I could not I 0:53:30.920 --> 0:53:33.560 mean literally, it took years for me to wrap my 0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:36.880 head around it. But then blythe became family to me. 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:41.320 I mean she was just the biggest heart, so sweet, 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:48.640 so quirky, so naturally funny. And Sydney Pollock. I never 0:53:48.760 --> 0:53:51.919 got over being intimidated. I can see that. I think 0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:55.600 it was because I revered him so much. The guest stars, 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:59.279 and you've worked with everybody at this point, Debbie Reynolds, 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:03.160 Abbie Reynolds, you have worked with some of the biggest 0:54:03.440 --> 0:54:07.880 icons of theater and film and television, and that's incredible. 0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:11.840 I don't know if you remember on Friends when Brookshields 0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:16.960 guest start. That opened the gates, the floodgates to having 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:21.280 stars as guest stars because it had never happened before. 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:23.759 All of a sudden, they were like, oh my god, 0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:27.520 they got so much viewership, we should have stars on right, boy? 0:54:27.640 --> 0:54:31.840 Did you? Then? It was like, Okay, what share is 0:54:31.880 --> 0:54:37.200 coming next week? Okay, who's after that? Madonna? Janet Jackson? Great, Okay, 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:43.200 that's great. It's incredible. Yeah, and having Debbie come back 0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:47.200 over years as my mother. I can't even put into 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:51.560 words what that meant to me. We really had a connection. 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.560 She and I really had a connection. All of us 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:58.440 that are still watching Will and Grace on Hulu. You 0:54:58.520 --> 0:55:01.959 see it with you and her. Yeah, I could see 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:06.080 you guys in your dressing rooms after rehearsal. You know, Deborah, 0:55:06.120 --> 0:55:08.640 don't wear your hair in your face. You know what 0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:11.200 I mean, Like you just see the dialogue and see 0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:14.120 the warm well. As I said to Jimmy Burrows, and 0:55:14.160 --> 0:55:16.080 as I've said to you a million times, Will and 0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:19.040 Grace is my favorite show of all time. It never 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:22.040 gets old. I've seen every episode of thousand times. I 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:24.680 was so happy to talk to him because he's the 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:27.640 one part of the puzzle of Will and Grace that 0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:30.239 I've never talked to you before except for that one 0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:33.200 time I guest starred. But I remember when I did 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:35.680 Will and Grace and I told my husband George about it, 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:37.279 and he was like, oh my god, that was like 0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:39.640 highlight of your life. I was like, it's Will and 0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:42.080 Grace and I got to play with Deborah. Not only that, 0:55:42.239 --> 0:55:44.920 I was like three inches away from her vagina, and 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:51.080 George is like, you're happy, You're happy. Place. Um, I 0:55:51.120 --> 0:55:54.719 had been dying for you to come on so I 0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:59.239 could play with you. And Max and Dave they were like, 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:01.239 all right, yeah, we have to have her on. I'm like, 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:03.479 but you can't have her on and have her play 0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:07.000 with other people. I have to play with her. Yeah. 0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:08.960 And so when they said that you're going to be 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:14.680 my gynecologist, I just burst into laughter because I already 0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:19.880 imagined you bent over in between my legs under the 0:56:19.960 --> 0:56:24.359 sheet with the big eyes. And and then afterwards I 0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:27.880 was like, she needs more doctor's appointments. I was thinking, 0:56:27.920 --> 0:56:30.680 like I would have come and played. I don't know 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:32.359 if I would have been able to do that with 0:56:32.400 --> 0:56:34.400 an actress I'd never met before. I don't know if 0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:37.920 I would have gone that far. You were inside me. 0:56:38.120 --> 0:56:43.160 I was inside you, Yes, at least my face was. 0:56:43.480 --> 0:56:47.160 But it was like that was the perfect combination of 0:56:47.800 --> 0:56:51.400 being somebody that loves to play and also being with 0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:53.760 somebody that I felt safe that I could do anything 0:56:53.800 --> 0:56:56.680 and we would laugh about it. So it was truly 0:56:57.200 --> 0:57:00.800 one of the best times I've had, the best, the best. 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:07.440 And now before we end, you get to ask me 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:13.359 a question about anything. Um, do you find sex more 0:57:13.480 --> 0:57:22.520 pleasurable in menopause? Versus Perry menopause, I would say in menopause, Actually, 0:57:22.640 --> 0:57:27.560 Perry menopause is when I had too many symptoms. Uh huh, 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:31.240 you know, too much sweating and hormonal rage and everything. 0:57:31.480 --> 0:57:36.840 Poor George m Menopause with the right oil is just 0:57:37.040 --> 0:57:41.360 fine with me. I'll take it. And I'm saying this 0:57:41.480 --> 0:57:43.880 as somebody who played your going to collegists are Will 0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:47.040 and Grace. Yes, God, bless oil. What would we do 0:57:47.120 --> 0:57:51.480 without it? Oh God, thank you for having me. I'm 0:57:51.520 --> 0:57:53.560 so glad you were able to talk to him because 0:57:53.720 --> 0:57:57.800 you know, he is so wise and it's just a legend, 0:57:58.040 --> 0:58:01.160 and you know you don't have the opportunity to really 0:58:01.240 --> 0:58:03.680 like pick his brain, and so I love the fact 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:06.640 that you guys did that me too. I love you. 0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:12.520 Let's get naked now. I love you. Thank you for 0:58:12.600 --> 0:58:16.560 listening to go ask Alli. James Burrows Memoir is directed 0:58:16.640 --> 0:58:20.000 by James Burrows. Five decades of stories from the legendary 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:24.280 director of Taxiach Years, Frasier, Friends, will Engrace and more. 0:58:25.400 --> 0:58:28.920 You can follow him on Instagram at the Real James Burrows, 0:58:29.360 --> 0:58:32.200 and you can follow Debora Messing at the Real Deborah Messing. 0:58:32.680 --> 0:58:34.640 If you'd like more info, on what you've heard in 0:58:34.680 --> 0:58:38.400 this episode. Check out our show notes. Be sure to subscribe, 0:58:38.480 --> 0:58:41.080 rate and review. Go Ask Alli and follow me on 0:58:41.120 --> 0:58:44.320 social media on Twitter at Ali e Wentworth and on 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:47.160 Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Now. If you'd like 0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:49.400 to ask me a question or suggest a guest or 0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:52.000 a topic to dig into, I love to hear from you, 0:58:52.040 --> 0:58:53.640 and there's a bunch of ways you can do it. 0:58:54.120 --> 0:58:56.160 You can call or text me at three to three 0:58:56.280 --> 0:58:59.600 three six four six three five six, or you can 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:01.880 email a voice member right from your phone to Go 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:05.480 Ask Gali podcast at gmail dot com. And you know what, 0:59:05.720 --> 0:59:08.120 if you leave a question, you just might hear it. 0:59:08.200 --> 0:59:17.760 I'm go Ask Alli. Go Ask Gali is a production 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:20.520 of Shonda land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. 0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:24.520 For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:27.920 Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 0:59:27.920 --> 0:59:28.640 favorite shows.