Speaker 1: Welcome to Go, Ask Ali, a production of Shonda land
Speaker 1: Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. When I have
Speaker 1: been with friends and that happened and I paid my pants,
Speaker 1: I did lose the room, they did leave. I saw
Speaker 1: her light up and I was like, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to work, but we are here until one of our
Speaker 1: last reps. I was just the one that was meant
Speaker 1: to take care of mamma. It's for me to remember
Speaker 1: every single day is that I always have a choice.
Speaker 1: Everyone always has a choice. Whenever somebody says no, you can't,
Speaker 1: or there's no rules for you, or you have to
Speaker 1: look like this, I go. I'll show you. I'll show you.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Go, ask Allie. I'm Alli Wentworth and I
Speaker 1: am over the moon right now because I have James
Speaker 1: Burrows on my podcast and he is the greatest sitcom
Speaker 1: director of all time. You may not know his name,
Speaker 1: but you've seen it on television credits. For almost fifty years.
Speaker 1: He's been at the helm of some of the most popular,
Speaker 1: beloved iconic sitcoms since the seventies, starting with The Mary
Speaker 1: Tyler Moore Show, The Bob Newhart Show, and Laverne and Shirley.
Speaker 1: He became the resident director on Taxi. Co created the
Speaker 1: classic sitcom Cheers and directed two hundred twenty five of
Speaker 1: the two hundred and seventy episodes. The shortlist of his
Speaker 1: credits include Frasier Friends, Will and Grace, Mike and Molly,
Speaker 1: the pilots of Two and a Half Men, and The
Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory. James Brows has directed more than one
Speaker 1: thousand episodes of sitcom television and has earned eleven Emmy
Speaker 1: Awards and five Director Guild of America Awards. And another
Speaker 1: feather in his cap was he directed me in an
Speaker 1: episode of Will and Grace. I played Grace's gynecologist, and
Speaker 1: I got down and dirty, and now on my tombstone.
Speaker 1: It can say a lot of bullshit, but it'll end
Speaker 1: with the line and she was directed by Jimmy Burrows.
Speaker 1: And just when you thought this podcast couldn't get any better,
Speaker 1: after my conversation with Jimmy Burrows, I'll be talking to
Speaker 1: Debor Messing about all the guest stars that came on
Speaker 1: Will and Grace, but mostly to find out what it
Speaker 1: was like to have Matt Damon grabbed her ass. Hello,
Speaker 1: James Burrows, or as you're called, Jimmy Burrows in the industry.
Speaker 1: First of all, I love your book so much. And
Speaker 1: I love it so much because as a girl who
Speaker 1: grew up in Washington, d C. Around politics, all I
Speaker 1: cared about with sitcoms. It was my life. And I'm
Speaker 1: from a family of many divorces, and I always was
Speaker 1: seated in front of the television watching Mary child More,
Speaker 1: Bob Newhart. So everything good in my childhood is shows
Speaker 1: that you worked on or directed. So thank you. I
Speaker 1: appreciate that there's so many great stories in this book.
Speaker 1: And I had no idea. I mean, I could do
Speaker 1: a month of pod casting with you. But because I
Speaker 1: have you hostage for the next forty five minutes, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about the sitcom. So you very early
Speaker 1: on love the concept of the sitcom, right, I did?
Speaker 1: And why is that there's so many other mediums, especially entertainment.
Speaker 1: What do you love about the sitcom? Well, it's a
Speaker 1: theatrical experience. You're doing a play every week, three minute
Speaker 1: play every week. And I was a theater rat. My
Speaker 1: dad was in the theater. I was brought up in
Speaker 1: the theater. I never wanted to be in the theater,
Speaker 1: but eventually when he taught me, when I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I was learning. I ended up in the theater, so
Speaker 1: I did a lot of theater before I came out
Speaker 1: to do sitcoms. So for me, the situation comedy is
Speaker 1: just theater on television. And you have some great stories
Speaker 1: about interning in theater, and you did a lot of
Speaker 1: hand holding too. I did, Yeah, I did. There's the
Speaker 1: way great line in your book that Jabor, who you
Speaker 1: were working with, said she was married multiple times, as
Speaker 1: we all know, and she said something about the ring
Speaker 1: was so expensive. I had to say, yes, yes. She
Speaker 1: was one of the important people in my success. It
Speaker 1: was a stage manager on Broadway for a show called
Speaker 1: forty carrotstef Jay Presson Allen wrote, my dad directed it,
Speaker 1: and when Julie Harris left, we brought in Jajabor. You know,
Speaker 1: Josh is not an actress, she's a presence. So I
Speaker 1: was in charge of putting her in the show, and
Speaker 1: she had to rely on me because I knew all
Speaker 1: the ins and outs of the show and everything like that.
Speaker 1: So we kind of became friends and she really liked me.
Speaker 1: She never treated me abusively or anything like that. She
Speaker 1: never slapped me like she slapped the cop. Therefore, when
Speaker 1: she would do stock productions or dinner theater productions of
Speaker 1: Forty Carrots or Blithe Spirit, which was our other play.
Speaker 1: They would hire me because I could wrangle her. So
Speaker 1: I got a job running a theater in San Diego
Speaker 1: because of her, and that led to me being out
Speaker 1: in California and reacquainting myself with Mary Tyler Moore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've wrangled a lot of people. You've probably wrangled every
Speaker 1: great star I can even think of, in one way
Speaker 1: or another. Yes, I'm not sure we better look up
Speaker 1: the definition of wrangle. Yeah, we should. In my case,
Speaker 1: I'm saying you wrangled in the most positive way with
Speaker 1: scaffolding and warmth. Yes. So you decide to write a
Speaker 1: letter to Marriage Heller Moore and they hire you based
Speaker 1: off this letter, correct, Yeah, but I don't recommend people
Speaker 1: sitting down and writing a letter to Robert de Niro.
Speaker 1: I had an experience with Mary. One of my first
Speaker 1: jobs was as an assistant stage manager on an ill
Speaker 1: fated Broadway musical endeavor called Breaks Tiphanies, based on the
Speaker 1: RG Hepburn movie and the Truman Campode novella. My dad
Speaker 1: wrote the script and I was hired as he assistant
Speaker 1: to the assistant. My job was I was in charge
Speaker 1: of the stars, Mary Tyler Moore and Richard Chamberlain, who
Speaker 1: were both from California, both doing their first Broadway show.
Speaker 1: So I was literally there Gopher and I would make
Speaker 1: sure they had lunch, and I make sure they know
Speaker 1: when the show was running, where they had to be
Speaker 1: to make their entrance and everything like that. And then
Speaker 1: my dad was unceremoniously fired from the show by David Merrick,
Speaker 1: and I asked him if when he left, if I
Speaker 1: could stay on this Titanic, and he said sure, and
Speaker 1: so they brought in somebody to replace him, and the
Speaker 1: show was horrible. We opened for four previews on Broadway.
Speaker 1: The actors were hooted off the stage and Mary would
Speaker 1: come off stage and wrapper arms around me and started
Speaker 1: crying because it was such a horrible experience. I think
Speaker 1: in your book, he said, she would be hysterically weeping,
Speaker 1: saying what have I done to my career? Every night, yes,
Speaker 1: and the last night it was a Wednesday night. They
Speaker 1: closed the show early. Wednesday night, I went to Sardis
Speaker 1: for awake and I stayed with her until her husband,
Speaker 1: Grant Takers, showed up so I had formed this bond
Speaker 1: with her. So when I was directing Joan Fontaine in
Speaker 1: forty Carrots and Wallingford, Connecticut in a dinner theater or
Speaker 1: at a theater and around I don't remember, I went
Speaker 1: home on a Saturday night and I watched television. There
Speaker 1: was a Mary Tyler Moore show, which was a twenty
Speaker 1: five minute show done in a week in front of
Speaker 1: a live audience, and I was doing a two hour
Speaker 1: show in a week in front of a live audiences.
Speaker 1: So I wrote a letter to Mary, which is in
Speaker 1: the book, and Grant called me about two weeks later
Speaker 1: and said, we'd like you to come out to Californ ONNYA.
Speaker 1: We'll pay you a small stipend. We like theatrical directors,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to learn the cameras, which I did.
Speaker 1: After about four months, I got a gig. So I
Speaker 1: had a relationship with Mary when I wrote that letter.
Speaker 1: All right, so you come out to California. Even though
Speaker 1: you're born in l A. You're a New Yorker. You
Speaker 1: sound like a New Yorker. Yeah, yeah, all the glass
Speaker 1: of water, Yeah, go on some coffee, soft core porn exactly.
Speaker 1: And so Mary Tyler Moore is the first show you
Speaker 1: work on, and to me, Mary Tyler Moore is one
Speaker 1: of the sitcoms that most people have learned the craft from.
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is the characters are
Speaker 1: so well defined, the scripts were so funny. You cite
Speaker 1: some of your favorite episodes in your book. Can you
Speaker 1: give me some color about that time in your life
Speaker 1: working on that show? Well, I was scared shitless because
Speaker 1: was the third of the fourth year of the show.
Speaker 1: J Sandrich, who was my mentor, did the shows, so
Speaker 1: they had occasional guest directors, and I was a guest director.
Speaker 1: And I was thrust into maybe the number three or
Speaker 1: four show in the ratings for my first job. And
Speaker 1: it was really scary. The cast was intimidating. The writers
Speaker 1: and Jim Brooks and Alan Burns and Ed and Stan
Speaker 1: d Winburger Stan Daniels were the pre eminent comedy writers.
Speaker 1: And so I was a little pitcher from New York
Speaker 1: who nobody except Mary and Grant new and so I
Speaker 1: had to play by the rules of the show. I
Speaker 1: I was deferential to the cast, deferential to the writers.
Speaker 1: In the moments when I was alone with the actors
Speaker 1: blocking the scenes, I would make suggestions in a very
Speaker 1: subtle way of things to try. In fact, in the
Speaker 1: last scene, it's a show about Loue moving into wrote
Speaker 1: his apartment. Mary and Leu are working together and living together,
Speaker 1: which doesn't work out. So the last scene was at
Speaker 1: Asner and Mary sitting on suitcases in a goodbye scene
Speaker 1: because he's going to move out. And I said, think
Speaker 1: of this as a cherry orchard, that the two of
Speaker 1: you are leaving the cherry orchard, and what that means
Speaker 1: to you. I don't know where that came from. I
Speaker 1: have no idea, but it was somewhere in my noggin.
Speaker 1: So it was a C minus script that became a
Speaker 1: C plus show. On Friday night, we shot at seven thirty.
Speaker 1: I was walking to the stage to start shooting and
Speaker 1: Mary came out of her trailer and said to me,
Speaker 1: we feel our investment in you has worked out. And
Speaker 1: I was I don't remember a lot of the show
Speaker 1: because I was so high at that point figuratively, and
Speaker 1: the show was okay. But the next day I got
Speaker 1: calls from the Bob new Heart Show and the Road
Speaker 1: To Show and Paul Sancho because they had a number
Speaker 1: of shows at MTM and they wanted me to direct,
Speaker 1: so I was on my way. Yeah, you were launched.
Speaker 1: I was launched. Yeah. You wrote about this too, which
Speaker 1: I think is fascinating for people, especially not in the business,
Speaker 1: that Mary was a show that crafted around one person.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was you know, you laugh so much
Speaker 1: with Mary, but Mary was pretty much the straight guy,
Speaker 1: and it was all the characters around her that were
Speaker 1: so full of color. And I feel like that happens
Speaker 1: in Taxi and so many other shows, even Seinfeld, that
Speaker 1: you have the sort of straight lead and all the
Speaker 1: sort of fun happens around them, that the situations they're
Speaker 1: put in. Yeah, well they're called the center of the show.
Speaker 1: At actor's eyes are the windows that the audience sees
Speaker 1: the show through. So Mary was the center of the show.
Speaker 1: She had a bunch of cooks, or they're not all cooks.
Speaker 1: Ed was, you know, not necessarily cook, and Nita was Gavin,
Speaker 1: but Ted was a cook, and Val was a cook,
Speaker 1: and Chloris was a double cook. And by Mary liking
Speaker 1: them and listening to them, that validated him. The same
Speaker 1: is true with Teddy on Cheers. He listens to Cliff
Speaker 1: Clen and he gives him veracity. He talks to Coach,
Speaker 1: he talks the Frasier, he deals with Diane, same with
Speaker 1: Judd on Taxi and those interplanetary people on that show.
Speaker 1: So and then if the center is funny, Mary was
Speaker 1: not the funniest. But Mary had great reactions and could
Speaker 1: do a joke. She could do a joke as Judd could,
Speaker 1: as Teddy could, as Eric and Will and Grace could do.
Speaker 1: So that's the conduit with which the audience associates with
Speaker 1: the show. So let me ask you a question about actors,
Speaker 1: because I hate him me too. Yeah, jeezus, I don't
Speaker 1: think you can teach comedy. I think it's intuitive. Do
Speaker 1: you agree with me? I agree totally. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: always thought it was interesting going to acting school. I
Speaker 1: was at n y U with people, and I would
Speaker 1: watch people try to do comedy and they just they
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. But you seem to be able to
Speaker 1: take these incredibly talented, intuitive people and pull out the
Speaker 1: best of them. And there's something else you wrote in
Speaker 1: the book which I thought was great, was I think
Speaker 1: Chuck Laurie said that he was a musician, and so
Speaker 1: he hears comedy musically. So do you also hear a rhythm,
Speaker 1: and our pattern when it comes to comedic writing and jokes. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know, before there were video monitors where you can
Speaker 1: watch the cameras, I would sit and listen to the actors,
Speaker 1: so I would listen to the rhythm, and as you know,
Speaker 1: you were unwill and grace. I tried to anticipate if
Speaker 1: a joke is coming, because a joke is surprised. If
Speaker 1: a joke is coming and an actor screws up the
Speaker 1: line on the way to a joke, you hear me
Speaker 1: go blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah to
Speaker 1: stop the actor from saying the joke because the setup
Speaker 1: was wrong. And then you know, there's times I closed
Speaker 1: my eyes during rehearsal I hear the rhythm of the
Speaker 1: joke and try to protect the joke because it is
Speaker 1: all about the music. Yeah. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: romance and sexual tension in so many of these shows
Speaker 1: that you've done. So, first of all, cheers, Sam and Diane.
Speaker 1: You talk a lot about that in your book, and
Speaker 1: besides Moonlighting, they were kind of the quintessential couple. Will
Speaker 1: they won't they? Will they won't they? How long do
Speaker 1: you keep something like that going, and then you did
Speaker 1: it with Ross and Rachel, and I mean, is there
Speaker 1: do you feel it? Well? When we set out to
Speaker 1: do Cheers, the Charles brothers and myself, we want to
Speaker 1: do a show about a bar, because we all love
Speaker 1: bars and we're all sports fans, so we want to
Speaker 1: do in Boston. But we also wanted another element, and
Speaker 1: we talked about a Tracy Hepburn relationship, a man and
Speaker 1: a woman who had this kind of repartee that was
Speaker 1: sexual tension. And the original concept of Cheers was Sam
Speaker 1: working for a woman, which after Shelley left, became Kirstilly.
Speaker 1: But when the boys went off to write the script,
Speaker 1: they came back with the character of Diane Chambers, which
Speaker 1: was an extraordinary character had never been on television before.
Speaker 1: So you know, there was magic between Ted and Shelley,
Speaker 1: so we said we had to get them together. And
Speaker 1: we were excoriated because we were before Moonlight. Moonlighting was
Speaker 1: after us, so we were excoriated the critics. I still
Speaker 1: have Howard Rosenberg's review the show's over, but we were
Speaker 1: we were true to our characters. We knew we had
Speaker 1: to do an evolving show. So at the end of
Speaker 1: every year we got them into a pickle, and the
Speaker 1: big any of the next year we got him out
Speaker 1: at a pickle. We did that for five years and
Speaker 1: it was successful because the two of them were so great,
Speaker 1: the writing was so good. Diane Chambers was a character
Speaker 1: that half the men wanted to go to bed with
Speaker 1: her and the other half wanted to kill her, and
Speaker 1: some people wanted to do both. That was it. We
Speaker 1: just said we had to do it to maintain the
Speaker 1: integrity of the show. But you also have to find
Speaker 1: the reasons why two characters have that tension. You know,
Speaker 1: she was always quoting Yates and Blake, and he was
Speaker 1: always sort of banging his head against the wall about her.
Speaker 1: So what was it about Sam and Diane? Why were
Speaker 1: they so hot for each other? That was provided totally
Speaker 1: by Ted and Shelley. Their chemistry. That's chemistry, that's Ross
Speaker 1: and Rachel. You had the chemistry between Eric and deb
Speaker 1: they were not going to get into bed with one another.
Speaker 1: But that kind of chemistry you could only have if
Speaker 1: the two actors have it. I can't give it to them.
Speaker 1: If they haven't, we can totally use it and make
Speaker 1: it even better, But they have to have that chemistry.
Speaker 1: If they don't, you're dead. So the two of them
Speaker 1: as good actors that they were individually, they were better together.
Speaker 1: That's what you pray for. And go back to the
Speaker 1: original Daisy and Lucy. H. You know, chemistry and most
Speaker 1: of the shows you did, there was so much chemistry
Speaker 1: with all the characters, which is what made it so
Speaker 1: successful that in the good writing and and how you
Speaker 1: kind of bull you based all of it together in
Speaker 1: such an amazing way. First time I've ever heard that. Um.
Speaker 1: And one of the things you talk about is like
Speaker 1: sit sitcom burnout and their sitcom burnout with the actors
Speaker 1: when they've been doing it for a long time. You
Speaker 1: even talked about Jamie Farr from mash who played such
Speaker 1: an iconic character that he couldn't really work after that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a reason a lot of actors in
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, especially movie people, didn't want to
Speaker 1: do sitcoms because they felt it typed them. But there
Speaker 1: have been people who have gone on to multiple sitcoms Mr. Newhart, Mr.
Speaker 1: Dance and so, you know, I mean, they were leading men.
Speaker 1: Jamie Farr played a very iconic character that's tough to
Speaker 1: get away from the same as Ted Knight. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I also think of Michael Richards and Cramer. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: very hard to see him as anything else. And what
Speaker 1: what's it like doing finales? Because the Cheers finale seemed
Speaker 1: god like the end of an error. There was hugging
Speaker 1: and loving and kissing and heads of the studios were
Speaker 1: sitting at the bar in the background. And is it
Speaker 1: hard to do finales? It is because you're bringing to
Speaker 1: an end something that was so wonderful for you, especially
Speaker 1: Cheers at eleven years of that show, and Teddy didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it anymore, and we didn't want to
Speaker 1: do a show where Sam was not there. It was sad.
Speaker 1: It was so sad that everybody cried. Yeah, yeah, everybody cried.
Speaker 1: And you know the same with Will and Grace when
Speaker 1: I did that finale. I did two finales on that show,
Speaker 1: luckily enough. And the audience never like finalees because you're
Speaker 1: taking away something that they love. Every Thursday night they
Speaker 1: would tune in for Cheers and you're taking that pacifier
Speaker 1: out of their mouths. So you can't win. When you
Speaker 1: do a finale, a lot of people are gonna hate it.
Speaker 1: So I also found that you're in their living rooms.
Speaker 1: They make this connection to these characters in a way
Speaker 1: you can't do it with film or books or anything else.
Speaker 1: I remember once I was having dinner a million years
Speaker 1: ago with my then boyfriend in New York and he
Speaker 1: had a brother and the they're kept talking about these
Speaker 1: people like they were his friends, and he kept saying,
Speaker 1: did you see what George did last night? It was incredible,
Speaker 1: And finally I realized he's talking about the show Seinfeld.
Speaker 1: These are not even real people in his life, but
Speaker 1: there's such a investment, there's such a vicarious journey that
Speaker 1: everybody has with these people, these characters that for years
Speaker 1: and years and years. Like you said, now they're streaming,
Speaker 1: but then they'd be on Thursday nights on NBC water
Speaker 1: cooler shows, that's what they used to call them. You know,
Speaker 1: it was incumbent on you back in the seventies, eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties to watch the episode so you could talk
Speaker 1: about it the next day. There was no streaming. There
Speaker 1: was Beta Max and you had vhs and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: so you could record it. But if you recorded it,
Speaker 1: you were out of the loop the next day because
Speaker 1: you hadn't watched it. I don't think it's like that anymore. No,
Speaker 1: it's not. There's five hundred sixty shows on the air,
Speaker 1: and it's just too other than a Super Bowl. Nobody
Speaker 1: gets together for a good time anymore. No, not at all.
Speaker 1: In fact, my now sixteen year old a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, when they I don't think it was streaming yet,
Speaker 1: when they had Friends and Will and Grace reruns TBS
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. I remember she started watching Friends
Speaker 1: like they just started, you know, and my little daughter
Speaker 1: would run in and say to George and I don't
Speaker 1: say what happens with Rachel and Ross, don't tell me
Speaker 1: what happened? You know. It's just so funny to me.
Speaker 1: But that is the plus side of the television technology
Speaker 1: now is that people get to rediscover these shows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Friends is gonna go on forever, probably Seinfeld. They're iconic
Speaker 1: shows and they're still funny. They've always been funny, and
Speaker 1: a new generation of kids are discovering them. God, they're funny.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more to come after this short break
Speaker 1: and we're back. I have to talk now about Will
Speaker 1: and Grace because I love that show so much. I
Speaker 1: watched it just to somebody ironing her shirts while she's
Speaker 1: watching TV like everybody else. I have since become good
Speaker 1: friends with Debra Messing and with Sean Hayes, but I
Speaker 1: first fell in love with them on television, which is
Speaker 1: kind of a surreal thing. Will and Grace, to me
Speaker 1: is the greatest show ever. It's not because they talked
Speaker 1: about George and how they wanted to have sex with them.
Speaker 1: But I love the characters, I love the writing, I
Speaker 1: love everything about it. And this show had so many
Speaker 1: incredible guest stars that if I name somebody, can you
Speaker 1: give me just a line or two about them that's
Speaker 1: a little bit behind the curtiny, I can try. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Molly Shannon a genius, crazy. We do stuff on
Speaker 1: stage I could have never thought of. I let them go.
Speaker 1: I let them do what they want to do. She's
Speaker 1: amazing and really physical, right, yeah, very physical. And she
Speaker 1: played Val the clepto crazy. Yeah. Okay. Michael Douglas, the
Speaker 1: gay detective. If you ever get to see that show,
Speaker 1: watch the dance. He does a dance in the club
Speaker 1: with Eric. It's a straight man dancing. He was great.
Speaker 1: He was great. You know what's great about him, it's
Speaker 1: a guy who came from drama, So Michael Douglas, you
Speaker 1: didn't see him in a lot of comedy, and the
Speaker 1: fact that he could get those jokes. That kind of
Speaker 1: actor is what I love. Those guys who you don't
Speaker 1: think are funny and all of a sudden are funny,
Speaker 1: which leads me to Glenn close. Same thing with her.
Speaker 1: She played this kind of crazy Anna Leebawitz is and
Speaker 1: she was hilarious, as with all of them, including you.
Speaker 1: I take them aside when they begin to show and
Speaker 1: I say, I hope you're going to play with us,
Speaker 1: because we have a lot of fun here. When you're
Speaker 1: in rehearsal with these four actors, they're at okay, don't
Speaker 1: get used to A A because when that audience comes in
Speaker 1: there they're going a D. And if you don't go
Speaker 1: to A you're going to get thrown out with the
Speaker 1: bathwater because they will demolish you. So I tell all
Speaker 1: of them, including you and Glenn and Matt Damon and
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas, I say, Will and Grace is a heightened
Speaker 1: comedy show. You gotta play on that level otherwise you're
Speaker 1: going to be on the cutting room floor. So no,
Speaker 1: I learned that, Yeah, I was playing Grace is kynecologist,
Speaker 1: and I got under the sheet and I was face
Speaker 1: to face with her vagina, So I like, I came
Speaker 1: to play. I knew that now, you said, Matt Damon,
Speaker 1: my favorite episode is a chorus Lie. Matt Damon h
Speaker 1: was so game to play in that episode. I mean,
Speaker 1: the story itself is hilarious that the straight guy pretends
Speaker 1: to be gay so that he can get a free
Speaker 1: trip to Europe with the gay chorus, So already it's
Speaker 1: a funny premise. Then Matt Damon comes and he is
Speaker 1: so so funny and even physical, you know, when he's
Speaker 1: trying to be gay with Sean Hayes's character and they're
Speaker 1: doing the little dance and then I think one of
Speaker 1: the best repartee in comedy is when Matt Damon and
Speaker 1: Sean Hayes are at each other's throats and Sean Hayes
Speaker 1: starts whipping off these quick like how do I know
Speaker 1: you've never seen the gym? Who did you date? It goes?
Speaker 1: I never go to the gym. I work out at home.
Speaker 1: You know I'm not doing it justice, And I think
Speaker 1: you have it actually in your book the dialogue. Then
Speaker 1: there's a great scene with Messing when he's on the
Speaker 1: couch with Messing trying to out it, trying to out
Speaker 1: him as straight. Yeah, and he said he said something
Speaker 1: about her rocking ass, rocking ass, Yes, and grabbed him
Speaker 1: this rocking ass, and they're all over each other, I
Speaker 1: mean all over each other. It was fantastic, all right.
Speaker 1: Sydney Pollock amazing. Sydney Pollock who plays Will's father, blythe
Speaker 1: Danner perfect as the Icy Wasppeball, John Slattery as Will's brother,
Speaker 1: I mean John Clice, Alec Baldwin, Patrick Dempsey. And then
Speaker 1: Harry Connick had this little arc or long arc. It
Speaker 1: got much longer with Grace as the love interest in
Speaker 1: then husband. Was he a surprise to work with I
Speaker 1: believe it or not. I had worked with Harry before
Speaker 1: you had. Yeah. Harry Connick was in an episode of Cheers.
Speaker 1: He played Woody Harrelson's cousin who was infatuated with Rebecca
Speaker 1: with Kirstie Alley. I don't know how old he was
Speaker 1: usually a kid then, Yeah, but he he was wonderful.
Speaker 1: He was wonderful. And then I did the episode of
Speaker 1: Friends where Matthew Perry was locked in the A T. M. Right,
Speaker 1: with Jill Goodacre. I'm trapped in an a t M. Yes,
Speaker 1: So I've known Harry longtime and Harry was so game
Speaker 1: to play and so sweet and so nice and funny,
Speaker 1: because if if Harry wasn't funny, he wouldn't have been back.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he was really funny. And I'm friends with
Speaker 1: Harry and Jill and she brings that episode up all
Speaker 1: the time because you know, people still stop her for that. Really, Yes,
Speaker 1: all right. Tell me about Kevin Bacon Unwill and Grace.
Speaker 1: You had known him in New York a little bit.
Speaker 1: He was a bartender at the All State Cafe, which
Speaker 1: in the late sixties and early seventies before Ali was born,
Speaker 1: Thank you. I used to frequent. I had a number
Speaker 1: of friends there. It's a big influence on me for
Speaker 1: cheers because we had a norm in that bar. And
Speaker 1: then Debbie, my wife, Debbie and I we had a
Speaker 1: house in Millbrook, New York, and Kevin and Kira have
Speaker 1: a house just outside of Menia. So we were at
Speaker 1: the Old Drover's Inn, which was a great restaurant, and
Speaker 1: Kevin and Kira came in and I went up to Kevin,
Speaker 1: I said, you remember me, I remember you from the
Speaker 1: All State said yes, yes. I said, look, the character
Speaker 1: of Jack has been infatuated with stalking Kevin Bacon, would
Speaker 1: you consider coming on the show? And it was as
Speaker 1: quick as yes. Ever, so we brought him out to
Speaker 1: do one show and he was wonderful. Yeah, very funny.
Speaker 1: And whose idea was it to do the footloose dance?
Speaker 1: Was that in the script? Yeah, we're gonna take from everywhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, that show was totally contemporary humor and humor
Speaker 1: in the news, and Cheers was completely the opposite. We
Speaker 1: never did a reference joke or anything like that. We
Speaker 1: never did that kind of pop culture joke on Will
Speaker 1: and Grace. We did them all the time. One thing
Speaker 1: about Will and Grace, which has been I mean, not
Speaker 1: only has it been a show that entertained us solved
Speaker 1: for years, but and Biden said it probably educated the
Speaker 1: American public more about gay rights, gay issues than anything else.
Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? Isn't it Biden that said that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's correct. I have never done a show that took
Speaker 1: a stand or proselytized. All my shows are to amuse.
Speaker 1: I leave that to Norman Lair, who's a genius. Said,
Speaker 1: but we had this show and when Well and Grace
Speaker 1: is sent to me, it was to me a sitcom
Speaker 1: that happened to have a gay characters. It was not
Speaker 1: about advancing an agenda. But what happened with that show
Speaker 1: was that people started to watch it because it was
Speaker 1: so funny and oh, I see, so they're gay character.
Speaker 1: They're not threatening, they're fine. You know, I'll continue to
Speaker 1: watch it because it's so funny. And the example I
Speaker 1: talk about that she the deal for me for how
Speaker 1: important the show was was. I used to drive carpool
Speaker 1: for my seventh grader. When Will and Grace is on,
Speaker 1: I would get the four kids in the car and
Speaker 1: start driving to school, and invariably, because it was Thursday,
Speaker 1: invariably one of the kids would say. The thirteen year
Speaker 1: old would say, what's unwilling Grace tonight? So I knew
Speaker 1: that these kids were picking up the vibes of that
Speaker 1: show at an early age and saying, Wow, gay people
Speaker 1: aren't that bad there. They're just like us and they're funnier.
Speaker 1: That's when I knew that the show was making a
Speaker 1: mark in that world. Although we never we dealt with
Speaker 1: a couple of issues, like you know those camps that
Speaker 1: try to mind bend you to anti gay camps. We
Speaker 1: dealt with that with Jane Lynch, Jane Lynch and Andrew Reynolds,
Speaker 1: and we did a scene with Sean and his grandson, Yep,
Speaker 1: who wanted to be gay and Sean was talking to him.
Speaker 1: And but we didn't hit people over the head with
Speaker 1: that because we knew what our lot was and we
Speaker 1: had to be funny. You know, I had a great time.
Speaker 1: It's literally the funniest show I ever did. It's not
Speaker 1: my favorite. My favorite is Cheers because I I gotta
Speaker 1: go created credit on it. But Will and Grace last
Speaker 1: per page was was hysterical, the best. And I have
Speaker 1: to ask you about because we're talking about Will and
Speaker 1: Grace about Stanley Walker, Oh my god, because Karen Walker
Speaker 1: was the most fucked up person, for lack of better words,
Speaker 1: fucked up character that there ever was. But Stanley who
Speaker 1: made the decision to never see him. I was always
Speaker 1: worried that at some point they were going to show him.
Speaker 1: But you you can't know. It's I mean, we were
Speaker 1: at the original months. You know, you go back to Calton,
Speaker 1: the doorman on Rhoda, and you go back to Vera,
Speaker 1: Norm's wife and cheers and Maris David Hyde Pierce wife
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's better her not to see that person
Speaker 1: and let it be a figment of your own imagination. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you could do jokes about it that are not real,
Speaker 1: and you don't confirm it or you don't see it.
Speaker 1: It's just a new audience's imagination. You did see Varia's
Speaker 1: legs once, right, believe it or not. Vera Norms wife
Speaker 1: was played by Bernadette Burquette, who is George's actual life
Speaker 1: so Burne would show up occasionally. Right. I was going
Speaker 1: to ask you how do you deal with things like pregnancy,
Speaker 1: because you guys didn't acknowledge Debra Messings pregnancy at all.
Speaker 1: You just said she was eating a lot. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the first one we had to deal with was the
Speaker 1: Diane Chambers because Shelley got pregnant year three, right, So
Speaker 1: she has a tray in front of her belly. The
Speaker 1: bar had slats in it which raised the actors up
Speaker 1: behind the bar. So we took the slats out so
Speaker 1: Shelley would be behind the bar. You didn't see her
Speaker 1: belly with Messing, we did things to cover it up.
Speaker 1: We had her sitting a lot. We were careful. We
Speaker 1: don't want Sam and Diane to have a baby, and
Speaker 1: we don't want to stay with somebody else, and with Messing,
Speaker 1: we didn't. We didn't want to deal with that. So
Speaker 1: although they did have babies at the end, but not
Speaker 1: not during. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by all the mechanics
Speaker 1: of that, of all of a sudden, characters disappearing or
Speaker 1: people getting pregnant, you know, the stuff that happens in
Speaker 1: real life that you have to somehow put in Make
Speaker 1: believe life. One other thing, Ria Ria had three kids
Speaker 1: on Cheers, but she could be pregnant because that was
Speaker 1: the whole character thing. However, if we know Reese was
Speaker 1: gonna have three children, we wouldn't have started out with
Speaker 1: she had four children in the first year. So, as
Speaker 1: I say in the book, I think there are forty
Speaker 1: babies born to the cast and crew on I had three,
Speaker 1: you know, Teddy at two, and George had free I
Speaker 1: think it was crazy. And you have a bunch of girls, right,
Speaker 1: I have four daughters, four daughters and no sons. I
Speaker 1: have a grandson. So okay, yeah, well I have to
Speaker 1: tell you that there are two episodes that I can
Speaker 1: think of that somehow relate to my husband, George Stephanopolis,
Speaker 1: and with Friends, the episode is called the one with
Speaker 1: George Stephanopolis, and I was not married to George at
Speaker 1: the time. I didn't know him, but that is something
Speaker 1: that seems to surface all the time. And now that
Speaker 1: we have two daughters, they've seen that episode of Friends
Speaker 1: and screamed when they saw it the first time because
Speaker 1: jen Aniston and Courtney Cox are referring to how hot
Speaker 1: their father was, and I truly thought they were going
Speaker 1: to have a meltdown. And the other time was I
Speaker 1: was pregnant with our second daughter. I was sitting in
Speaker 1: bed with our three year old and I was watching
Speaker 1: Will and Grace and Sean and Eric, the two lead actors,
Speaker 1: go into a bar in Vermont, and the bartender says
Speaker 1: to both of them, what can I get you? And
Speaker 1: they both said in unison, George Stephanopolis, to which my
Speaker 1: three year old daughter turned to me and said, why
Speaker 1: do these guys want daddy? And I thought, Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: how am I going to explain this to them? Which
Speaker 1: I think is really funny because I have lots of
Speaker 1: little inlets that lead me to you friends or you know,
Speaker 1: people that I've worked with, but the George Stephanopolis thing
Speaker 1: seems to come up a lot, especially when I was
Speaker 1: reading your book and thinking about all the shows that
Speaker 1: you've done. All right, so James, you get to ask
Speaker 1: me a question now, Okay? Why do I only see
Speaker 1: your head? Comedy is you have to see the comedy?
Speaker 1: You have to see hands see. People at home won't
Speaker 1: know this, but all I see of Ali Wentworth is
Speaker 1: her head and humor. If you watch my shows, I
Speaker 1: shoot from the waist up because arms and hand gestures
Speaker 1: are funny. Why do I only see your head? You're
Speaker 1: absolutely right? I could answer I'm pregnant. That won't work.
Speaker 1: I had another question for you. Yes, who do you
Speaker 1: like better? Me and Michael Smith? Thank you? Hands down?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1: I have to tell you I really love this book.
Speaker 1: I love it. It was like a delicious dessert. I
Speaker 1: couldn't get enough of it. Well, I I appreciate it,
Speaker 1: and best to you and your girls, and I get
Speaker 1: them to continue to watch Will and Grace. Please. Best
Speaker 1: you needs some money? Oh God, let's take a little
Speaker 1: break and when we come back, we're messing. Will give
Speaker 1: us the inside scoop on Jimmy Burrows and so many
Speaker 1: of the dazzling guest stars Will and Grace hosted over
Speaker 1: the years. Welcome back. I'm so excited to have my
Speaker 1: very good friend here to dish about the eleven years
Speaker 1: she worked with the great director James Burrows. Deborah Messing
Speaker 1: played Grace Adler on the NBC sitcom Will and Grace
Speaker 1: for eleven seasons, for which she received seven Golden Globe
Speaker 1: Award nominations and five Primetime Emmy Award nominations and a
Speaker 1: win and Emmy win for Outstanding Lead Actress in a
Speaker 1: Comedy Series. And Messing's film work include, among others, Along
Speaker 1: Came Polly, The Wedding Day, The Women, and she has
Speaker 1: two movies out this year of Bros. And Thirteen. As
Speaker 1: you know, Deborah, I did a podcast recently with Jimmy Burrows,
Speaker 1: who everyone says it's the greatest director of all time.
Speaker 1: But can you tell me why Jimmy Burrows is the best.
Speaker 1: I think the thing that makes him unique is that
Speaker 1: he thinks of comedy as music and he would rather
Speaker 1: hear the language than see it. And you will actually
Speaker 1: see him on show night just walking back and forth,
Speaker 1: not even watching us acting, just listening and when something
Speaker 1: doesn't sound right in his ear, he goes go back,
Speaker 1: go back, and literally, I've never seen anyone else in
Speaker 1: my entire career do that. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: that comes from the fact that he came up in
Speaker 1: the theater, and I think that kind of musicality was
Speaker 1: understood very young because his father did huge Broadway musicals.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's all sort of genetic. But
Speaker 1: I think also he trusts actors. There is a weird
Speaker 1: thing that happens. I can speak to network television, A
Speaker 1: weird thing that happens when there are between six and
Speaker 1: ten executives for every run through, and everyone has lots
Speaker 1: of opinions. We only rehearse four days. Every single day,
Speaker 1: they completely rewrite the script based on what is discussed
Speaker 1: after a run through, and what is the norm is
Speaker 1: that the director stay silent and the executives talk about, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's not good for this character. We don't like where
Speaker 1: that's going, so you should change this, you should do this,
Speaker 1: you should change this. Speaking to the writers, Jimmy Burrows
Speaker 1: does not allow that to happen on his set, and
Speaker 1: it's it's only because he's a legend that he has
Speaker 1: gained the respect and the right to say a I've
Speaker 1: got this back off. He tells the show runners from
Speaker 1: the very beginning, you are the creators. I am here
Speaker 1: to bring your creation to life. So there's no ego
Speaker 1: power struggle from the very beginning, which obviously Jimmy Burrows,
Speaker 1: as you know, is an imposing person. But what happens
Speaker 1: with him is he says, you know what, the cast
Speaker 1: knows these characters, and I trust their instincts more than
Speaker 1: the executives. So I want to hear from the actors
Speaker 1: after every scene, what worked for you, what didn't work
Speaker 1: for you? And that made it much more of a democracy.
Speaker 1: It makes the whole creative endeavor much more fulfilling to
Speaker 1: actors because we are invited to the collaboration. The first
Speaker 1: show I did, it was not that and I literally
Speaker 1: just felt like a dancing monkey. Yeah, because usually a
Speaker 1: directors it's just about blocking, and you know they don't
Speaker 1: consider the acting part of it. But let me ask
Speaker 1: you this, When you heard Jimmy Burrows laugh when you
Speaker 1: were doing a scene, did it make you feel good? Oh? God?
Speaker 1: That was the highest, by far, the pinnacle of what
Speaker 1: you could possibly accomplish because if you made Jimmy Burrows laugh.
Speaker 1: You know, I called him Papa Jimmy, and he called
Speaker 1: me juicy. But why why because he called me the
Speaker 1: Jewish Lucy. So he called me juicy. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that has to stick. That's such a good name. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: go ahead, juicy okay. And so you know the fact
Speaker 1: that he did every single episode, you really feel like
Speaker 1: a sense of owner ship and you feel like you
Speaker 1: are in partnership with Jimmy. And like you said, he's
Speaker 1: kind of got a Papa bear thing to him too.
Speaker 1: He does so that if you inevitably you're going to
Speaker 1: be struggling with something, you're gonna be struggling with something
Speaker 1: that you read and on the page and you know
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be funny and you cannot figure it out.
Speaker 1: So you could go up to him and say, Jimmy,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm lost. I don't know why this isn't working
Speaker 1: in my mouth. I don't know why this isn't working
Speaker 1: in my body. He then sort of watches the scene
Speaker 1: and he finds ways to punctuate with physical comedy mhm,
Speaker 1: or just with movement on stage. You know, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that literally just one person walking from the door
Speaker 1: to the kitchen could be hilarious until I started working
Speaker 1: with Jimmy. And by the way, I mean Sean, of course,
Speaker 1: and hilarious the physical But you you juicy. I mean
Speaker 1: I can name off the top of my head scenes
Speaker 1: in which the physicality of what you did made it
Speaker 1: all work. I mean, even if you're standing on a
Speaker 1: bed with Jeremy Piven and you know, and you're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get it on. I mean, you were the
Speaker 1: genius of that. I'm sorry, I mean your boobs with
Speaker 1: the water spurting out of it. I mean you had
Speaker 1: all the lucile ball asked physicality to that, And that
Speaker 1: is one of the things I think is a genius
Speaker 1: about Jimmy Burrows is that he let you guys use
Speaker 1: all that physicality, which made what would be it otherwise
Speaker 1: not so funny scene hilarious. Now I also have to
Speaker 1: ask you this, because you were pregnant with Roman while
Speaker 1: you were shooting Will and Grace. How much fun did
Speaker 1: you and Jimmy Burrows have hiding your pregnancy. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say it was fun, Okay, you were always behind a table.
Speaker 1: I was always either behind a table, behind a plant,
Speaker 1: holding a laundry basket, sitting on the sofa holding a
Speaker 1: pillow over my stomach. I found it frustrating because I
Speaker 1: couldn't be physically free, right, you know, so I was
Speaker 1: very hemmed in. And also I loved how they just
Speaker 1: made it that you were eating too much. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: which was true to Grace. You know, Grace loved to eat,
Speaker 1: so of course it was perfect. But the thing, what
Speaker 1: what you were saying about him allowing the physical comedy.
Speaker 1: Something happened. I think this is indicative of his credo.
Speaker 1: We were doing the pilot, and towards the end, when
Speaker 1: I'm in a wedding gown and my my wedding falls apart,
Speaker 1: and I visit Will in his office late at night
Speaker 1: by himself after we fought, I come in to reconcile,
Speaker 1: and I walk in and closed the door and walk
Speaker 1: over to him very slowly to try and like be
Speaker 1: gentle about it. And my veil gets caught in the
Speaker 1: door and I keep walking, so I'm ninety degrees going
Speaker 1: backwards with my veil in the door. I remember, and
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I did that. He was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, no, no, no, no, that's too far. And
Speaker 1: I was like really, and he was like yeah, I
Speaker 1: think yeah. And I was like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: think I could make it work. I think we could
Speaker 1: get the laugh and then I could come out of
Speaker 1: it in a very subdued way so that we could
Speaker 1: get right back into the seriousness of the scene. And
Speaker 1: he was like show me, and I did, and he
Speaker 1: was like, you're right, He's like, do it. And from
Speaker 1: that point on he trusted my instincts for physical comedy.
Speaker 1: And we were so lucky with our the writing staff
Speaker 1: because they wrote towards our strengths, they wrote for us,
Speaker 1: so it was really the best of all possibilities. But
Speaker 1: you know, when we came back for three years a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, we all sat around the table
Speaker 1: and was like, do we want to do this? Are
Speaker 1: we going to do this? Why are we going to
Speaker 1: do this? It was a very in depth conversation, and
Speaker 1: the one thing just off the bat that all four
Speaker 1: of us agreed on we will not do it without
Speaker 1: Jimmy Burrows. That says a lot too. Yeah, alright, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna have a little fun now. Because one of
Speaker 1: the things that I talked to Jimmy about was One
Speaker 1: of my favorite episodes is when Matt Damon tries to
Speaker 1: join the Gay Man Choir and pretends to be gay
Speaker 1: and he's straight. And there's a scene where Sean sends
Speaker 1: you in to try to out him as a straight person,
Speaker 1: and you guys are making out on the couch and
Speaker 1: he grabs and he goes with this rocking ass. Jimmy
Speaker 1: and I were laughing about this scene. How much fun
Speaker 1: was it because it looked like you were having fun,
Speaker 1: were having fun? Um, yes, I was having a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. I have to say that Matt Damon was
Speaker 1: probably one of the greatest guest stars we've ever had
Speaker 1: because he was so game and at that time he
Speaker 1: had been playing a lot of really serious film roles
Speaker 1: and so when he came on, we didn't know what
Speaker 1: to expect. We were like, is he funny? Can he
Speaker 1: be funny? And I think in me there was a
Speaker 1: kind of reverence towards him. So I was a little
Speaker 1: timid to like throw myself on the couch on top
Speaker 1: of him, and it became clear that he knew the
Speaker 1: playground he was playing in and he was like, I'm
Speaker 1: here to play. So we just went for it and
Speaker 1: that was all improvt like that rock and ass all that.
Speaker 1: That was all that just came. It was so good.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what Jimmy said. He said, when guest
Speaker 1: stars came on the show, they had to be able
Speaker 1: to play with you guys. It was not gonna work
Speaker 1: if they didn't play. And it was amazing because, like
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas also was one of my favorites of all time.
Speaker 1: The dancing that awful, really just horrible dancing with Will
Speaker 1: At the end, I was like, you know what, this
Speaker 1: is a playground for actors who never get to be silly,
Speaker 1: never get to take risks, and never get to play.
Speaker 1: And as a result, we get to see some of
Speaker 1: our favorite actors and actresses doing things that we never
Speaker 1: imagined that they could do. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: also made it particularly special. Well, and you can tell
Speaker 1: how much fun they're having. So while we're talking about
Speaker 1: guest stars, I'm gonna name a guest star and just
Speaker 1: give me one line of memory anything. Okay, So I
Speaker 1: know what you're gonna say this one. Harry Connick Jr. Oh,
Speaker 1: the love of my life. Yes, yes, yes, I knew
Speaker 1: you were going to say that I knew it. Harry,
Speaker 1: the one they got away. God, I loved him so much,
Speaker 1: so you obviously hated kissing him. It was awful. It
Speaker 1: was really really uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean we have to
Speaker 1: also just put a little note to this that I
Speaker 1: lost count of how many people I kissed over eight years.
Speaker 1: Excuse me. Yeah it was a lot of people. So
Speaker 1: and women too, if I recall, Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: So I didn't realize you kissed that many people, but
Speaker 1: now that they think about it, yes you did, all right, Okay.
Speaker 1: Another of course favorite, and the two of you were
Speaker 1: genius together, was Molly Shannon, who played the cliptomaniac crazy neighbor.
Speaker 1: You know what, I am still in physical therapy trying
Speaker 1: to recover from working with her. Really, yo, my god,
Speaker 1: she injured me every single time she came on the
Speaker 1: show because she was just out there. She was like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's go. And I was known on set as being
Speaker 1: the person who who didn't really have restraint and would
Speaker 1: like throw myself on Sean and Eric and I didn't
Speaker 1: know my own strength. And so you had these two
Speaker 1: people who were both completely out of control and totally
Speaker 1: a slave to being funny coming and hitting, and she
Speaker 1: she kicked my ass. I remember. I mean, I love that.
Speaker 1: We're talking about how crazy Molly Shannon's character was. And
Speaker 1: there's a siren in the background of your apartment, which
Speaker 1: I can only imagine is Grace calling to get somebody
Speaker 1: to come pick her up, which is a perfect soundtrack
Speaker 1: to what we're talking about. Ahead it is. It was
Speaker 1: something where we could not wait until she came back.
Speaker 1: It was always fun. It was always funny. I do
Speaker 1: remember one time towards the end of the first run
Speaker 1: when she was coming back again and I said to Jimmy,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm I'm a little nervous. She's going to
Speaker 1: hurt me. Did Molly know that? Yes, yes, of course
Speaker 1: she did. That's so funny. I love it because I
Speaker 1: went up to him like, Molly, don't hurt me. Don't
Speaker 1: hurt me. Okay, how about Glenn Close, who played like
Speaker 1: an Annie Lebowitz type photographer, because oh, that was one
Speaker 1: of the funniest episodes where she's taking pictures of you
Speaker 1: and Will and oh yeah, your reactions to her, Oh
Speaker 1: my god. Oh yeah. I mean, first of all, you
Speaker 1: know icon right, and I'm like the woman from fatal
Speaker 1: attraction is undressing me and giving me a deep, deep,
Speaker 1: sexy kiss. Yes, and I'm like, what's happening. I could
Speaker 1: not believe it. I really did not expect her or
Speaker 1: see any inkling that she had it in her to
Speaker 1: go that far. So she really kissed you, She really planted.
Speaker 1: Oh I think she was my most passionate kiss with
Speaker 1: a woman. Well look at that, miss Deborah. That's right.
Speaker 1: And I had never kissed a woman before Willie Grace,
Speaker 1: and she she was the most aggressive of all of them.
Speaker 1: And your reaction in that episode when she plants that on,
Speaker 1: your reaction is so genius that, now that I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about it, it was really you in shock. It was
Speaker 1: me in shock. It was me in shock. She didn't
Speaker 1: do that in rehearsal. Makes me love her even more.
Speaker 1: I know what about Sydney Pollock and blythe Downer, who
Speaker 1: played Will's parents, Because when you and blythe when you
Speaker 1: were just scrappy Grace and she'd be like, Grace, do
Speaker 1: me a favor and hand you know. Oh, it's so
Speaker 1: good just the juxtaposition of your characters. I mean, I
Speaker 1: had already been like an uber fan of hers from
Speaker 1: the theater prior to this, so having to two of
Speaker 1: them come in with so heavy I could not I
Speaker 1: mean literally, it took years for me to wrap my
Speaker 1: head around it. But then blythe became family to me.
Speaker 1: I mean she was just the biggest heart, so sweet,
Speaker 1: so quirky, so naturally funny. And Sydney Pollock. I never
Speaker 1: got over being intimidated. I can see that. I think
Speaker 1: it was because I revered him so much. The guest stars,
Speaker 1: and you've worked with everybody at this point, Debbie Reynolds,
Speaker 1: Abbie Reynolds, you have worked with some of the biggest
Speaker 1: icons of theater and film and television, and that's incredible.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember on Friends when Brookshields
Speaker 1: guest start. That opened the gates, the floodgates to having
Speaker 1: stars as guest stars because it had never happened before.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, they were like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: they got so much viewership, we should have stars on right, boy?
Speaker 1: Did you? Then? It was like, Okay, what share is
Speaker 1: coming next week? Okay, who's after that? Madonna? Janet Jackson? Great, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's great. It's incredible. Yeah, and having Debbie come back
Speaker 1: over years as my mother. I can't even put into
Speaker 1: words what that meant to me. We really had a connection.
Speaker 1: She and I really had a connection. All of us
Speaker 1: that are still watching Will and Grace on Hulu. You
Speaker 1: see it with you and her. Yeah, I could see
Speaker 1: you guys in your dressing rooms after rehearsal. You know, Deborah,
Speaker 1: don't wear your hair in your face. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like you just see the dialogue and see
Speaker 1: the warm well. As I said to Jimmy Burrows, and
Speaker 1: as I've said to you a million times, Will and
Speaker 1: Grace is my favorite show of all time. It never
Speaker 1: gets old. I've seen every episode of thousand times. I
Speaker 1: was so happy to talk to him because he's the
Speaker 1: one part of the puzzle of Will and Grace that
Speaker 1: I've never talked to you before except for that one
Speaker 1: time I guest starred. But I remember when I did
Speaker 1: Will and Grace and I told my husband George about it,
Speaker 1: and he was like, oh my god, that was like
Speaker 1: highlight of your life. I was like, it's Will and
Speaker 1: Grace and I got to play with Deborah. Not only that,
Speaker 1: I was like three inches away from her vagina, and
Speaker 1: George is like, you're happy, You're happy. Place. Um, I
Speaker 1: had been dying for you to come on so I
Speaker 1: could play with you. And Max and Dave they were like,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, we have to have her on. I'm like,
Speaker 1: but you can't have her on and have her play
Speaker 1: with other people. I have to play with her. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so when they said that you're going to be
Speaker 1: my gynecologist, I just burst into laughter because I already
Speaker 1: imagined you bent over in between my legs under the
Speaker 1: sheet with the big eyes. And and then afterwards I
Speaker 1: was like, she needs more doctor's appointments. I was thinking,
Speaker 1: like I would have come and played. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I would have been able to do that with
Speaker 1: an actress I'd never met before. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I would have gone that far. You were inside me.
Speaker 1: I was inside you, Yes, at least my face was.
Speaker 1: But it was like that was the perfect combination of
Speaker 1: being somebody that loves to play and also being with
Speaker 1: somebody that I felt safe that I could do anything
Speaker 1: and we would laugh about it. So it was truly
Speaker 1: one of the best times I've had, the best, the best.
Speaker 1: And now before we end, you get to ask me
Speaker 1: a question about anything. Um, do you find sex more
Speaker 1: pleasurable in menopause? Versus Perry menopause, I would say in menopause, Actually,
Speaker 1: Perry menopause is when I had too many symptoms. Uh huh,
Speaker 1: you know, too much sweating and hormonal rage and everything.
Speaker 1: Poor George m Menopause with the right oil is just
Speaker 1: fine with me. I'll take it. And I'm saying this
Speaker 1: as somebody who played your going to collegists are Will
Speaker 1: and Grace. Yes, God, bless oil. What would we do
Speaker 1: without it? Oh God, thank you for having me. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad you were able to talk to him because
Speaker 1: you know, he is so wise and it's just a legend,
Speaker 1: and you know you don't have the opportunity to really
Speaker 1: like pick his brain, and so I love the fact
Speaker 1: that you guys did that me too. I love you.
Speaker 1: Let's get naked now. I love you. Thank you for
Speaker 1: listening to go ask Alli. James Burrows Memoir is directed
Speaker 1: by James Burrows. Five decades of stories from the legendary
Speaker 1: director of Taxiach Years, Frasier, Friends, will Engrace and more.
Speaker 1: You can follow him on Instagram at the Real James Burrows,
Speaker 1: and you can follow Debora Messing at the Real Deborah Messing.
Speaker 1: If you'd like more info, on what you've heard in
Speaker 1: this episode. Check out our show notes. Be sure to subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and review. Go Ask Alli and follow me on
Speaker 1: social media on Twitter at Ali e Wentworth and on
Speaker 1: Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Now. If you'd like
Speaker 1: to ask me a question or suggest a guest or
Speaker 1: a topic to dig into, I love to hear from you,
Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of ways you can do it.
Speaker 1: You can call or text me at three to three
Speaker 1: three six four six three five six, or you can
Speaker 1: email a voice member right from your phone to Go
Speaker 1: Ask Gali podcast at gmail dot com. And you know what,
Speaker 1: if you leave a question, you just might hear it.
Speaker 1: I'm go Ask Alli. Go Ask Gali is a production
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