WEBVTT - Darién Gap: One Year Later | Part Four: When Someone Needs Help 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:02.880 Alson media. 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.120 As we always do, we have included the sources for 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.600 this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.120 link to Primrose's legal aid fundraiser of people would like. 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:11.479 To help out. 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.160 The week before you're hearing this, on a beautiful southern 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.080 California winter morning, I met some friends in a parking 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.159 lot near the border. We hopped into our trucks and 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.199 drove along dirt roads so we reached a pull up. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.919 Once there, we threw on packs and hiked straight up 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.720 of steep hillside. Even in late November, the south facing 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.960 slope was hot. We're all sweating. By the time we 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.120 reached the GPS location we've been given. It wasn't hard 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.320 to spot a dark patch on the landscape where someone's 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.320 remains had returned to the earth. One friend had carried 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:23.160 a heavy wooden cross up the mountain. We dug a 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.759 hole in the rocky ground and then placed the white 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.440 wooden cross in it. Silently, we filled the whole back up, 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.600 stamped on the dirt until the cross stood straight up. 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:34.800 Then we decorated it with. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.280 Marrow golds and seashells and dry flower petals, doing the 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.720 best we could. One friend carefully picked the petals off 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.160 the flowers, laid them on the arms of the cross. 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.520 Another sprinkled poppy seeds into the ground. We stood in 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.240 silence for a while that the construction of the secondary 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.160 border wall didn't halt for a minute in silence, and 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.680 then together we paid our respects to Graciela. Sonton Gormez 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.520 had an this. His last moments were spent looking at 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.840 the same sky we were looking at, gazing down onto 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.480 the two border walls that were built to separate us 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.640 from her. She died in September in the heat wave 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.240 the same month. A year before, I'd had to call 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.480 nine one one for several migrants with heat stroke. I'd 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.680 come across she died, a friend told me, with her 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:26.160 clothes folded next to her, sheltering under a bush, looking 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.360 from the place where erected the lonely little cross, that 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.120 was all we had left remember her. I could see 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.600 four border patrol surveilled at Santanas. She was just a 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.320 few hundred yards from the wall from the road, but 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.359 it took weeks for anyone to find her. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:56.840 Gracilasi and Gomez ls presently Gracilas vomits er lambs Gracila 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:58.920 Gormez lands. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.160 Obviously we arrived too late to help, but we arrived 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.120 soon enough to ensure that least in death, she was 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.119 afforded to dignity the world has denied. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.240 Her in life. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.400 Then I strapped half of fifty gallon barrels my backpack frame, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:18.920 where my friends carried slabs of water bottles. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:27.359 As we walked. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.160 A construction vehicle above us drilled holes into the earth 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.640 for pylons that would hold a second thirty foot wall. 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.480 On the sixty degree slope above the vehicle, a helicopter 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:40.000 flew around, and then it flew back, and then he 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:41.960 think we were at the date on water bottles and 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:42.880 threw them minute barrel. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:46.480 I tried to gain all. 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:54.600 Okay. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.720 Doing this for years, we said goodbye to a fair 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.400 share of people who he never got to say hello 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.760 to and whose faces we never got to see. Last summer, 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:05.760 I helped asserch to the remains of a migrant who 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.920 had passed away in a canyon deep in the desert. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.920 Every time I do this fills me with a deep sadness, 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.480 especially with all the friends from the jungle who I've 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.560 lost touch with since then. It could be easy to 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.279 look at everything I've laid out in this series and 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.880 feel hopeless. But I don't want you to. It could 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.919 be easy to feel afraid as well, because now is 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.160 the time that caring about other people is dangerous. It's 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.400 possible currently for some folks to keep their heads down 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.600 and try and keep themselves safe, or to confind their 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.760 actions to are angry posting on social media. But our 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.680 politics shouldn't be about anger. It should be about love. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.680 Now more than ever, it's important to remember that we 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.600 don't act on our love and our solidarity with angry tweets. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.200 We act on it by taking care of people. However 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:56.080 many walls they build, however many masked men with guns 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.480 they send. I don't believe it's within the power of 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.240 the state to stop people caring about each other, and 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.960 I hope that that care compels people to do something. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.600 In fact, I think seeing so much cruelty makes us 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.000 all realize that it's up to us to care for 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:14.080 one another. People have cared for Primrose and Kim in 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.119 all kinds of ways since they came here, and today 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.680 we're going to hear from some of them. Friends bought 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.960 Kimberly's school books where they were stuck in Mexico. Some 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.240 other folks put on a burlesque performance here in San 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.360 Diego to raise money for her lawyer. Hundreds of you 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.760 reached into your pockets to help her pay for illegal 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:36.040 living expenses when the state, both under Biden and under Trump, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.280 made her of Kimberly feel unwelcome. 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:39.760 You didn't. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:42.880 I've carried my fair share of water into the desert 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.760 under Biden administration as well. It was Biden's policies that 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.320 left little Mioomi stuck in Mexico, not Trump's. It was 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.240 Biden's policies to detain people in the open air and 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.920 let them with no food or water or shelter. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:57.159 And it was. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.240 Everyday people like my friends and I who fed them 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.640 and sheltered them and took care of them. We took 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.119 donations and dived into dumpsters to grab tents, who worked 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.520 hard every day to build shelters, cook food, and give 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.000 away clothing so that people could feel welcome and safe. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:11.240 Here. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.200 Not a single elected official gave out a single sandwich, 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.040 much less made one in the months that thousands of 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.600 people were detained out doors in a cumbu and salusigital. 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:25.600 But people from churches, goodwaras, latterday Saints people and quakers, 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.240 as what as a whole lot of anarchists and crosspunks 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:32.320 and just desert people with no particular politics did I'm 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.240 not saying, mister Patus on the back, I don't think 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.240 any of us really wanted to be mentioned at all. 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.400 Like many of us, some of my happiest memories were 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.760 the days we fed strangers, then sat around fires, sharing 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.400 stories and sometimes songs. Since then, I've been privileged to 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.640 share the joys and struggles some of those people faced 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.040 in their new lives here. I've attended their weddings. I've 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.880 tried to help them understand that by action accents, but 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.280 I've helped them come to terms with the fact that 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.320 you simply can't get around large parts of this country 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.520 without a car. I'm saying this because I think it's 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.479 important that whatever happens after this current administration, we can't 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.560 ever go back to the way things were before. We 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.600 can't let migrants be invisible in our communities. We can't 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.280 let them keep dying at the border. Let's talk about 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.400 what carrying looks like. In Primrose's case, this time last year, 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.440 I just released my Darien gap podcast, and a few 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.360 weeks after, I received a direct message about my Patreon newsletter. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.640 It was from a guy called Matt. My name's Matt. 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.800 I'm just a normal person who listens to a lot 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:33.440 of podcasts. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:35.600 I didn't know him and he didn't know me, but 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.160 he listened to the podcast I made. 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.840 I can still very vividly remember where I was when 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.520 I listened to that, which was I was coming back 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.960 from a dirt biking trip in Michigan, and so I 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.119 had a seven hour drive and I was like, oh cool, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.440 here's a three hour podcast that. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.000 I listened to, and then I started listening. 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.800 To it, and then I was just like I got 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.480 into that mode where I was just like I couldn't 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.760 not finish it, you know. I was like absolutely hooked 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.080 and just needed needed to get all you needed to 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.320 get all the way to the end, and was just 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.920 really really moved by by the whole thing. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.040 Like many Americans, until read to be late in by 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.400 an administration, Met knew about immigration, but he hadn't really 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.600 grappled with the fact that what secure borders means is 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.360 killing innocent people in the jungle, in the desert and 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.040 everywhere in between. That's how deterrence works. That's how it's 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:32.920 supposed to work. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.520 Like, I didn't realize that that was like intentional. And 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.920 then hearing you know, hearing hearing yours, I was just 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.520 sort of like, oh, right, Like just the fact that 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:51.160 people would go to such a just such lengths of 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:57.360 a danger on a journey just across a continent and 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.520 knowing that once they get here they're not even welcome, Right, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.040 We're gonna intentionally put up this like kind of life 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:04.960 or death obstacle. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.679 Course, I kept. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.280 Thinking about it, and the next day I was like, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.800 let me like see if you've done anything else on it, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.679 and I found a couple of your couple of your 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.079 other your other episodes on it, and I was like, wow, this, 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.840 this is this is wild. And that was you know 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.319 you you were you're talking about the open air detention 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.800 in the Hakumba area, and and I was like, this 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.240 is crazy, Like this is just happening just right outside 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:30.840 of San Diego. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:31.800 I mean, it's just wild. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.800 Matt felt like now that he knew this, he couldn't 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.640 not do something about it, so he took some of 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:41.200 his vacation time at work and came to southern California, The. 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.520 Thing that was crazy is seeing all the equipment, you know, 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.920 the equipment if you can call that, left behind by 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.199 the people traveling through these places where it's just like 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:57.200 normal chose and just like cheap Walmart backpacks and just 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.360 you know, the basic stuff that you would just like 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:03.600 where to school. 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.160 Matt joined friends and mine in the mountains, carrying water 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.800 and helping with some techi shoots we've been wondering about. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.640 He saw the wool, and he saw the damage he does. 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.360 He saw the difficult terrain people have to cross just 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.800 to get a chance to ask for help here, the 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.439 ways they have to risk their lives even after they 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.400 make it to the USA. He also got to experience 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.200 the where the helping other people helps us. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.600 As I was heading back home, I definitely had this 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:34.480 feeling about like like way less despair getting together with 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.240 people to just do something, to just do something useful 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.040 to help people, even if it's just like in a 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:46.440 tiny way, like even if somehow it doesn't help, but 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.920 it's like it probably will. But importantly doing it with 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.079 other people it made me feel a lot better. It 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.840 made me not feel so like just everything is fucked, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.400 like the world is descending into fast, or when there's nothing. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:02.280 I can do about it. It's like. 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.040 There are a lot of people who want to help 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.760 doing stuff with them is like is good. 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.000 Soon after, like all of us, he saw the board 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.520 it bringing its violence into cities across the United States. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:20.760 I mean, like just masked federal agents, we assume, mostly 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.199 refusing to identify themselves, just randomly picking people up. I mean, 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:30.160 it's crazy and this is ah. 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.240 I mean, I literally am a loss for words. 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.440 I mean, it's just it's so the opposite of what 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.640 America is all about, straight up like fascism. Like I 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.480 just I never thought I would live through something like this. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.440 I always just thought that's the kind of thing that 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.240 happens in other countries, you know. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:51.280 I guess a lot of us thought that. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.480 A lot of us probably thought this kind of state 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.520 violence was confined to other places, and other times we wondered, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.520 perhaps absent mindly, what we might do in that places 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.480 and times for years, as a historian and a reporter, 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.319 have thought about them, read about them, visited them. Now 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:07.560 I'm living in them. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.600 It's always just sort of like, in the same way 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.080 that you would think, what would happen if I was 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.120 in this I don't know, movie like it's not real. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.040 Just think like, oh what if I was Jason Bourne. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.000 Matt Knight stayed in touch. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.400 One day he was in LA on business and I 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.959 mentioned I've been helping Primrose Naver get the mass transit 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.400 nightmare that is Los Angeles so she could get to 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.560 her ICE appointment. He offered to stop buy it if 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.160 you needed a ride anywhere. I connected them. He saw 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:34.800 her place and he offered to help. I guess with 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.040 furniture as well. Then it was time for him to 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.880 fly home every day like I do. He had to 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.360 worry about someone he knew being snatched. The Florida settlement 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.760 doesn't stop ICE from redetaining people, and in LA they 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.080 seem to be detaining anyone they could any way they could. 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.040 Kim had been afraid to go out now because she 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.880 didn't want to go back to detention. So once again 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.240 Matt decided he wanted to do something, and he asked 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.000 if Kim and Primrose might like to come and stay 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.439 with him on the East Coast. That's not an easy 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.360 choice to make. No no need doesn't mean sharing a space. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.720 It also means taking yourself out of a safe group 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.560 and accepting that the states I have surn might fall 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:11.880 on you. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:12.840 Now, you know. 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.600 I talked it over with my wife and we were like, 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.400 you know, both wanted to do this, and but you know, 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.960 we had to acknowledge like it might mean that like 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.760 these assholes and masks show up at our house, like 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:31.800 where our kids are and are like gonna haul away 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.839 just this family. That might happen in like right right 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.600 over there. I mean, I don't like it, but I. 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:41.400 Just I don't know. 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.520 I've just I feel like you gotta do just gotta 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.680 do something, you know. The end, he says, it wasn't 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:48.840 a hot decision to make. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.120 I mean, it was a lot easier because my wife 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.559 was actually just like one hundred percent let's do it. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:54.600 And I was like, well, hold on a. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.840 Second, we should at least think through the outcome. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.000 She's like, I don't care whatever, just do it. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.800 Like a lot of people, Matt had always done things 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.120 to help people, but nothing like this, nothing that directly 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.000 put him in between someone who needed to be kept 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:09.880 safe and the people who. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.800 Didn't want them to be safe. Yeah. I mean, nothing 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.920 is dangerous. I mean. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:22.000 Charity stuff, but you know, sometimes with time, but usually 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.760 just like giving money to people to you know, who 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.040 need it or whatever. But you know, this is definitely 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:34.560 the most like direct involvement to help someone who needs it. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.400 Certainly is the first time that I've exposed my family 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.080 to any thing like this. 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.600 So one day, this autumn promotion and Kimberdy said goodbye 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.440 to Los Angeles, got on a plane, flew to the 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:57.440 East coast. 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.760 I thought I was waiting at the right spot, but 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.920 they let him out at a different so they actually 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.400 walked past me in the airport. I didn't even see it, 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.440 but I eventually figured it out. Luckily, the airport is 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.440 not that big, and so I could just sort of walk, 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.960 just walk all the baggage claim Mary and I eventually 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:17.440 found them. 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.040 Then they went for sushi, then for ice cream, a 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.600 perfect suburban stripmall American evening, the sort of evening people 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.960 cross jungles and deserts be able to enjoy, the sort 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:29.640 of evening the hundreds of people I met in the 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.880 jungle will never be able to enjoy. Of course, it's 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.600 hard to sit in a cold stone and talk about 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.920 the things people enjoyed to come here. MAT's is sometimes 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.120 it's still difficult to even comprehend what his new friends 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:40.680 had been through. 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.800 It's hard to answer, like you're asking me a very 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.920 good question about like, well, what was it like? And 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.160 it's like the difference the distance between like our shared 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.400 experience is so vast it still often almost doesn't seem real. 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.040 I've had that same thought. It's hard to hear stories 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.640 from migrants and really think of them as human ex experiences, 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.160 not just stories. That's why I go into the mountains 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.960 and the desert. That's why I spent a decade asking 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.760 Gettus to send me to this daddy in. I didn't 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.200 think I could understand migrants journeys if I hadn't experienced 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.640 a little part of them. And I don't think we 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.720 could write about migrants or not write about what they 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.120 go through to get to a strip mall sushi place. 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.160 Of course, Primrose isn't done with her interaction with immigration 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.800 authorities yet. They've had visits from ICE in her new home, 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.240 but not from enforcement removal operations. 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.800 I mean, like they know where she lives. We told 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.480 them where she lives, so like she lives in my house, 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:41.720 so you know, yeah they might. I don't know. I mean, yeah, 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.120 I guess I'm. 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.720 Like not as afraid of that. I have to say 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:55.280 that the ICE people in seem just like a bunch 0:16:55.320 --> 0:17:04.520 of cheery folks. Like it's seems pretty different than I mean, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.320 like I met many of them, yeah, part of this process, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:13.920 and they were not the like you know, play carriers 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:18.440 and guns guys. They're just like the you know, they 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.679 work in the office and decide whether you get to 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.760 move here or not. You know, yeah, yeah, and they 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.879 were like very friendly and downright helpful. 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.360 Promos are settling in at Matt's place now, but it's 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.760 Matt explained, the struggle isn't over yet. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:41.399 Now, Like our energy is more on how do we 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.399 help her make her case because she has an asylum 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.679 case that you know, she needs to win. And it's 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.639 you know, I'm not a lawyer, but wow, sounds like 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.280 what asylum is for literally running from a hostile government 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:03.719 that she was protesting and was going to jail and 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:09.600 torture her. Like what what is asylum for? If not 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:10.080 for that? 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.399 Of course, interacting with the asylum system has shown that 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.000 some of its absurdities, like the work permit clock for 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.480 our bus rides to riverside, the endless changing regulation. So 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.240 one has to navigate or trying to survive without the 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:24.600 ability to legally work. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:30.879 In what way can you do this legally without some 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.399 you know group helping you, without like just somebody saying, fine, 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.879 I will take you and pay for your living expenses. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.520 What is the legal way to like seek asylum. You 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.880 come here, they put you in jail. You stay in jail, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:50.879 which is fucking jail. Yeah, they let you out of jail. Good, hooray, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.479 we're out of jail, and now you're homeless. Yeah, you 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.760 have no possessions and no ability to legally work. At 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:03.600 least let them work. I mean, come on, just let 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.840 them get a legal job. That's just like the sort 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:12.719 of bureaucracy version of the forcing people across the desert. 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.680 It's like, well, okay, you won't die in the desert 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:16.560 in this one. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.960 In this one, you will die or you will suffer 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:20.960 under homelessness. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:22.520 More deterrence. 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.439 You know, everyone always says, oh, what I support an 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.600 immigration just got to be legal, you gotta do it 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.520 the right way. But they have no idea what they're 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.240 talking about, Like, what is the right way. I believe 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.000 everyone who says that has no idea what the right. 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:36.320 Way is. 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.719 Changing that making a law's line up with what anyone 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.679 would see is basic decency isn't coming anytime soon. In 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:46.840 the meantime, they have to navigate the asylum system. In 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.280 as many contradictions, Primer has never got any follow up 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.080 care for her leg injury. The only way she could 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.480 access care in her new home was once again totally 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.199 impractical for someone without a car, just another example of 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:01.480 how the system says peep it up to suffer and fail. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.280 There's no way to get her to the doctor. Well, okay, 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:10.679 there is a way a way. Technically we could drive 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.000 like an hour and twenty minutes way out to this 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.800 place that like as a thing with the ice that 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:25.399 they will say like, well that's your approved like medical provider, Like, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:32.640 I'm not gonna drive, just do some minor thing. Yeah, 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.359 So we pay out a pocket So we go to 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.119 a doctor and we go here's the problem we have. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:40.440 We don't have insurance. 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.680 Let's get this done for as little money as possible, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.560 because in the United States, if you don't have insurance. 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:51.600 It is going to costume. Yeah, it loves and mercifully. 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.760 My wife and I both know a number of doctors 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.199 that we can sort of run ideas by and if 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.280 we didn't have that, like, I don't know what we 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:04.879 would do. It would not be good. I mean, well 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:06.720 I know what we do. We would drive an hour 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.440 and twenty minutes to the place and we would just 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.080 be like, okay, doctor help. 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:17.200 But like, because you know, we have connections and we 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.400 are also willing to pay a little bit out of pocket. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.280 She needed to get some medicine. Medicine is super expensive. Yeah, 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:26.000 so you go to. 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:28.639 The CBS and you're like, well, you know, oh, we 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.359 don't have your insurance on file, and we're like, I know, 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:36.160 but how much is this going to really cost? And dude, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:40.160 drugs are so expensive? Like it's just. 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.280 What are what are those people supposed to do? 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.080 It's brokensistent and it's not when we can really rely 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.040 on goverment to change whoever is in office. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:54.399 The Democrats don't have a great answer for this either. 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.640 I wish they did. I mean I will still vote 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.600 for them because they're at least less bad. You know, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.840 what are the choices do you have? It's like, if 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.480 there was a better party, I would be that one 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.760 that I mean, if they had a chance of winning, right, yeah, yeah, 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:15.239